It was fair game to talk about John Edwards’ $400 haircut (which conservative commentators did for weeks), because Edwards was basing much of his presidential campaign on poverty issues. So why is it sexist, as Sarah Palin’s campaign claims, for the press to report that the Republican National Committee spent $150,000 in one month on designer clothes and accessories for Palin and her family? Or that her campaign spent almost $23,000 in the first half of October on a makeup artist and another $10,000 on a hair stylist? After all, much of Palin’s campaign speeches are appeals to Joe Six-Pack and Joe the Plumber. As columnist Maureen Dowd noted: “Sexism would be to treat Palin differently, or more delicately, than one of the guys.”
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176 Comments
It is wrong to say anything about Sarah Palin that isn’t complimentary. If you expect her to be treated as any other candidate — that is also wrong! There should be no measure of her knowledge of current events, no question of her experience, no expectations that she is well educated. She is special and she be treated as such.
What I find disturbing is that the McCain campaign considers hairstyles more important than issues.
No amount of make up or clothing could fix the wart endowed, ugly smoker appearance of Osama Obama.
Why thank you regular for displaying a typical McCainiac response.
How much did the Obama campaign spend, to go check on Obama’s Birth Certificate in Hawaii?
(Make no mistake, Obama did NOT go to Hawaii to see his “White Grandmother” — Obama’s visit with his Grandmother was brief. Obama did not take his daughters or Michelle. Obama took a bunch of lawyers with him!)
How much did Michelle Obama spend on food, at the last debate? Two lobsters and champagne, for LUNCH is a bit much, don’t you think?
Obama spent MILLIONS on his “Greek Temple” in Denver.
Phillip, you are biased, we all know that. However, it would be nice if you would show some effort to compensate for your liberal bias.
Ben: Who considers hairstyles more important than issues?
Anyway, not all the MSM agrees in this case.
CNN’s Campbell Brown: Stop Covering Palin’s Wardrobe Controversy; Women Are Unfairly Held to Higher Standard on Appearance
October 23, 2008 8:31 PM
On CNN last night, Campbell Brown discussed the “sniping…about Sarah Palin’s clothes. Politico.com reports that the Republican National Committee spent more than $150,000 on clothes, hair, and makeup for Palin on the campaign trail.
“Now, these are not your tax dollars. This is money given by Republican donors to the RNC,” Brown said. “But the report questions whether it’s legal to use campaign cash for quote,’ personal use.’ My issue: there is an incredible double standard here, and we’re ignoring a very simple reality. Women are judged based on their appearance far, far more than men. This is a statement of fact. There has been plenty of talk and plenty written about Sarah Palin’s jackets, her hair, her looks. Sound familiar? There was plenty of talk and plenty written about Hillary Clinton’s looks, hair, pantsuits. Compare that to the attention given to Barack Obama’s $1,500 suits or John McCain’s $520 Ferragamo shoes. There is no comparison.”
“Women get scrutinized based on appearance far more than men, and look, I speak from experience here,” continued the CNN anchor. “When I wear a bad outfit on the air, I get viewer e-mail complaining about it, a lot of e-mail, seriously. When Wolf Blitzer wears a not-so-great tie, how much e-mail do you think he gets? My point is, for women, unfortunately, appearance is part of the job. If Wolf or Anderson shows up on the air without makeup, do you think you would even notice? I show up on the air without makeup, trust me, you’ll notice. This doesn’t just apply to TV. All women in the public eye deal with this issue, and it’s for this reason that I think the RNC should help Palin pay for hair, clothes, and makeup. It is part of the job.
“Now, you may think that’s an awful lot of money to spend on clothes, hair, and makeup, or you may complain, as some have, it’s hypocritical to sell yourself as a small-town hockey mom when you’re wearing designer clothes,” Brown concluded. “That’s fine. Just don’t ignore the fact that there is a double standard here and personally, I think, in this campaign, with so much at stake, this is a peripheral issue. I myself have raised plenty of questions about Sarah Palin, much to the annoyance of the McCain campaign. But those questions have been about her qualifications and experience, never her appearance. Let’s keep the focus on what really matters here.”
Hillary NEVER pays for her clothes.
Designers do it for FREE, with the hope that they will get FREE advertising through Hillary wearing their clothes.
If Obama wins? Michelle will probably do the same as Hillary has done.
When designers DONATE clothing to famous politicians, is that a campaign donation? Is it fair to beat up on Sarah Palin, who REPORTED expenditures, and to give Democrat women a pass, on this issue?
Phillip,
The problem is your question.
Palin never said it was sexist for the media to “report” on the money spent by the RNC.
What was claimed to be sexist was the lefts attacks on her for having such expensive clothing.
And the context of that was that while the liberals are complaining about the issues being important (because of Ayers) they then turn around and attack Palin for wearing expenisve clothes and mischaracterize her.
Many find that to be sexist.
Here is a good article on it:
Sexism rears its head in Palin’s wardrobe
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india_knight/article5014570.ece
It’s not hard to see that Palin and McCain is running against the lowly rated news media. The clothes are not hers. The news media has spend mega bucks going to Alaska to get anything that will help The Messiah and the dems. Lets review those expenses from the lib news. Sure don’t read much about Joe Biden and his comments. Go Palin girl stick it to them.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/10/26/2008-10-26_elisabeth_hasselbeck_sarah_palin_undress-3.html
#
bth
Posted October 27, 2008 at 12:12 pm | Permalink
Why thank you regular for displaying a typical McCainiac response.
————————–
Just doing what I can to keep the libtards in compliance.
It is absolutely not sexist to report what Palin (or the RNC) spends on her clothes. It is also absolutely no interest to me. But this is a PEOPLE magazine country, I guess.
“Friday, October 24, 2008
Of the $150,000 spent by the Republican National Committee on clothing for the vice presidential candidate, $50,000 worth of clothes was returned immediately after the national convention, $50,000 worth hasn’t been worn yet and $50,000 is being used by the Palin clan.
Sarah Palin told FOX News on Thursday that some of the clothes that were ill-fitting or just bought to be tried and possibly worn were returned right away.
Everything that “could be returned was,” she said. Another third of the clothing remains unwrapped and packed in the belly of the vice presidential candidate’s campaign plane and the rest is being worn.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2114240/posts
Phillip, YOU are sexist AND biased.
How much does Obama spend on his wardrobe? How did Obama afford his house, that convicted slum-lord Tony Rezco helped Obama buy?
It is Obama that tries to sound like a champion of the little guy, yet Obama, through his corrupt Chicago connections, has been involve in several high-dollar financial mis-deeds that YOU have never even mentioned!
How much has Biden spent on his clothes, “hairstyle” and glossy white teeth? What about Cindy McCain’s and Michelle Obama’s wardrobes? How much do McCain and Obama spend on theirs? Who cares?
I don’t think that Gov. Carter, Gov. Reagan, nor Gov. Clinton had too much foreign policy experience when they first ran for President and I don’t ever remember that being questioned by the press or media.
Unfortunately, the media has gotten into the business of making the news and being a part of the news rather than reporting the news.
Once again the losers are outraged and waving their arguments frantically and in vain.
Sucks to be Republican!
And if she had worn crappy clothes that didn’t look good?
Well, I can only imagine that the liberals like Linda would be on here saying something about how this is an interview for the job of Vice President and Palin doesn’t even bother to dress for success.
mx
Obama is a “poison pill” for Democrats.
If Obama wins, it will not be good for America.
However, Obama will be a disaster for the Democrat Party.
Presidents can not vote “Present” —
Obama will let the Bush tax cuts expire. This will mean a tax increase for nearly everyone that currently pays taxes, today.
Obama has very little track record of any type.
Obama has hidden his writings and thoughts from the voters. We know nothing about his writings at Harvard or Columbia. We know little about his State Senate activity, as Obama often voted “present”.
As President? Obama can not hide.
I do hope that Obama does not win. However, if Obama does win?
Republicans will not have to work very hard, in 2 years or in 4 years, to prove that Obama is a radical!
“Franklin
Posted October 27, 2008 at 12:12 pm | Permalink
How much did the Obama campaign spend, to go check on Obama’s Birth Certificate in Hawaii?
(Make no mistake, Obama did NOT go to Hawaii to see his “White Grandmother” ”
Care to PROVE any of that BS Paul? Snopes already dealt with the Birth certificate. Did they also fake the announcement that appeared in a Honolulu paper a couple days after the birth?
If the RNC wants to spend large amounts of money dressing up Sarah I guess thats their right, but I suspect that many donors would rather see that money go to defend republican candidates, I heard Elizabeth Dole is borrowing heavily from her own money, norm Coleman is losing to Al Franken, John Sununu is behind, Saxby Chambliss is struggling, if ardent conservative is struggling in Georgia you know the Republicans have probelms, and spending almost 200 grand probably is the answer. And I would assume as a public figure Mrs Palin probably owns a lot of nice clothes already, and as beauty pageant contestant already knows how to do hair and makeup
“outlander
Posted October 27, 2008 at 12:13 pm | Permalink
Ben: Who considers hairstyles more important than issues?”
Sarah Palin’s makeup artist is McCain campaign’s highest paid staffer
By Gary Fennelly
Monday, 27 October 2008
Sarah Palin’s makeup artist was the highest paid individual in Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign during the first half of October.
The traveling makeup artist was paid $22,800 for the first two weeks of October alone, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission.
The figure means that the make-up artist was “the highest paid individual in Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign,” according to the New York Times.
Amy Strozzi, nominated for an Emmy award makeup work on the show “So You Think You Can Dance?”, was paid more than John McCain’s foreign policy adviser and his senior communications staffer.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-election/sarah-palins-makeup-artist-is-mccain-campaigns-highest-paid-staffer-14017176.html
Ben a quick check of Hospital records would show wether obama’s grandmother is a patient. If Obama wasnt born in the US wouldnt the Secret Service, FBI, and half a dozen agencies know?
I for one think that the RNC needs to spend more rather than less on expensive threads for both Sarah and John Mccain! It’s money well wasted. As Billy Crystal used to say on SNL
“I’d rather look good, than feel good”, or
“Sarah looks Marvelous!”
Ben: Who keeps bringing all of this silliness up instead focusing on “the issues”.
Hint: It’s not McCain- Palin.
It certainly isn’t for me to have a say in how the RNC spends their money! I didn’t donate to them. I’m satisfied with the way the money I donated has been spent.
“Ben: Who keeps bringing all of this silliness up instead focusing on “the issues”.”
—-
Could it be Franklin?
Only a repub would think of using a dying grandmother for political points. Goes to their mindset.
Is Franklin really Al Franken? His real motive is to further the democratic party in Kansas by making the Repubs look even nuttier than they are.
Ben,
Care to prove any of the BS you say about the Marines in Lebanon?
ben
Snopes is wrong.
Daily Kos is wrong.
Obama’s own website is ridiculous on this.
First of all, it is entirely possible to be born OUTSIDE the United States and STILL get a “Certificate of Live Birth” from nearly any state in the Union.
This is ALL that Obama has tried to show us.
A “Certificate of Live Birth” (especially in “short form”) is NOT the same as a “Vault Copy” Birth Certificate.
Want “proof” of that? Try to get a passport with only a “short form” COB. Let me know how that works out for you!
Next, the “COLB” that Obama displayed was altered. That has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Besides, nobody denies that this “COLB” copy was only recently produced, which is completely legal but still does not address the fact that it is not a true copy of the original. A “COLB” simply lifts LIMITED info off of the original and transfers that info — there is NO attempt to claim it is a “copy” of anything.
The short form that Obama listed did not name the doctor or the hospital or show fingerprints or footprints.
Now, I have stated, previously, that I think it is wrong for Obama to stonewall on this issue. Obama should present a Vault Copy of his ORIGINAL Birth Certificate. So far, Obama has NOT done so.
I believe that such a document DOES exist, but that Obama will be embarrassed by what is on that form.
Why? Because OBAMA claims “embarrassement” as one of the reasons he does not want to release this document, in Obama’s own court filing!
Ben, you do a horrible job at research.
Everything that I have told you here is easy to find, online.
Again, for the record, there is a chance that Obama was NOT born in the United States, as Obama’s Black Grandmother, in Kenya, says so. — But I am doubting that speculation.
I am guessing that Obama is either:
Not really an Obama —
In which case he CHOSE the name that he complains about so often.
Or, that there is another name on the Birth Certificate that Obama does not want us to see.
Or, that the original, Vault Copy of the Birth Certificate shows Obama was not born in the United States — which, as stated before, I doubt.
Obama is applying for a job. Obama should present his ORIGINAL Birth Certificate Certified Copy.
McCain did so, Obama should do so.
Obama’s Hawaii Trips Cost More Than Palin’s Clothes
News Max ^ | October 26, 2008 | Ronald Kessler
Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:45:53 PM by RobinMasters
Barack Obama’s trips to Hawaii on a chartered Boeing 757 each cost more than twice the price of Sarah Palin’s new clothes.
Brad Blakeman, who was in charge of scheduling for President Bush, says a Boeing 757 costs about $20,000 an hour for fuel, crew, and maintenance. Since a trip to Hawaii entails 10 hours of flying time from Chicago, the total cost for each round-trip comes to about $400,000.
Obama used the Boeing 757 for trips to Hawaii over the summer for a vacation and again last week to see his failing grandmother. Admirable though that visit was, “By Obama using a private jet to go on a purely personal visit to see his grandma, he’s wasting not only energy, but he’s using the money that his supporters have given him for campaign purposes,” Blakeman says. “It’s a purely personal visit paid for with campaign funds.”
On the other hand, the media are highlighting the Republican National Committee’s purchase of $150,000 in clothes for Palin, even though the dresses will be donated to charities. The New York Times played the story on page one.
“They’re picking on Palin, who was provided a wardrobe by the RNC strictly for political purposes, and it was always intended that these garments would be then given to charity,” Blakeman says. “So there’s a benefit that’s going to charity, not a benefit that Palin will have after the election. There was a need for it because she’s a modest person who didn’t have an extensive wardrobe to do 24/7 campaigning.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116022/posts
“Want “proof” of that? Try to get a passport with only a “short form” COB. Let me know how that works out for you!”
I did. Many years ago. And I got the passport.
Paul – if this was about your bogus birth certificate claim Obama would not have made the trip. He would have quietly sent “operatives” to handle it. Just like he sent the time travellers into the past to plant the birth announcement.
Nathaniel,
Is VP Cheney going to come out of his undisclosed location, and convince Senator Reid to make lots of policy changes?
Tom
READ the Constitution.
It is not the JOB or authority or the jurisdiction of ANYONE other than the ELECTORS and the States and the Congress to decide this issue.
This is why STATE COURT action might compel Obama to release his actual Birth Certificate.
“Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
Obama was born in 1961 and his mother was 18.”
Nathan – I already did. They have acknowledged that they had security lapses.
TomPaine
Posted October 27, 2008 at 12:36 pm | Permalink
Ben a quick check of Hospital records would show wether obama’s grandmother is a patient. If Obama wasnt born in the US wouldnt the Secret Service, FBI, and half a dozen agencies know?
Yes – and she is in with a broken hip. At her age that is a serious matter.
And yes – they would all know. And I still find it amusing that there was a birth announcement in the local Honolulu paper about the birth at the time. I guess that was fake too?
Phantom
How much time did Obama spend with his Grandmother?
Why was it an “emergency” that Obama announced 3 days prior to actually leaving?
Why did Obama not take his kids or his wife?
Why did Obama take a team of attorneys with him?
There are at least 10 State Court challenges to Obama being qualified, under the Constitution.
I think Obama will be able to win, in court, but that it will damage Obama to release his actual records.
This is why Obama wants to wait until after the election.
If Obama does not win? All of the lawsuits will be tossed.
There is no issue unless Obama wins the the majority of ELECTORAL votes.
Then, the States CAN give instructions to their Electors, and the Congress CAN rule on these issues.
Pall,
Isn’t the real question how much was McCane paid in royalties and residuals during and after his singing career on Radio Hanoi?
Once again, we should all be amazed at the incompetence of every conservative journalist, reporter, pundit! All these secrets known only to a few bloggers. Why are those with the connections, the power, those who are paid to write columns for newspapers and magazines, fill the airways with news — WHY are they unable to say the words, write the words that would convince Americans of the “facts” and “truth”?
Why can’t the current POTUS or a member of his cabinet or staff make these facts known? At least one of the agencies such as FBI, CIA, Homeland Secirity… America is in danger — shouldn’t they be protecting her?
Well said linda!
And jed – you raise a good point – is McCain declaring that income on his taxes?
McCain in NOT a US Citizen
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/birthcertificatelanding.htm
Ben
You are simple minded to the extreme.
ANYONE can get a simple “birth announcement” printed in just about any newspaper. The announcement you speak of did not mention the hospital or anything about the place of birth.
And, “timetravel” and psychic ability are not necessary, for motivation.
Citizenship grants many rights.
It is possible that Obama IS a “citizen” but NOT a “natural born citizen” — we just do not know yet.
However, it is easy to see why Obama’s grandparents, in Hawaii, would want Obama to be a citizen, and would pull strings to that end.
Royalties …
How war hero John McCain betrayed the Vietnamese peasant who saved his life
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-542277/How-war-hero-John-McCain-betrayed-Vietnamese-peasant-saved-life.html
John McCain:
The Manchurian Candidate connection:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/mar08/mccain_manchurian.htm
Acorn falsified the phony birth certificate!
Ben
You are again showing your weakness where logic is concerned.
McCain’s Parents were much older than 19, when McCain was born.
McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone.
However, McCain could have been born on the moon, and it would not matter:
McCain’s parents were old enough to AUTOMATICALLY pass citizenship to McCain.
Obama only had ONE parent who was a Citizen of the United States. His mother was only 19.
Again, I have said that Obama will probably overcome this hurdle, but the hurdle is there, and you should not discount it.
Paul
You are delusional to the extreme …
IF your claims are legit then why hasn’t the AG’s office acted. Your wingnut websites keep rehashing the same old BS and then you label the debunking of it (snopes) as wrong.
Go for it Paul. Call your allied administration. Get the AG to declare him ineligible. DO IT!
Paul – I am not making that claim about McCain – some of his fellow veterans are. I’m simply noting that something on the internet is not automatically true.
I recall long ago when the question arose about the elder Romney. As I recall the final determination was that he was eligible by virture of parents. (Of course, the issue was moot)
Sorry
Obama’s mother was only 18, not 19, at Obama’s birth.
This MIGHT disqualify, we do not know.
Paul – a question: IF this were about the birth certificate why would Obama go? Why would he not just send the lawyers and maybe a bunch of thugs. Maybe even that black guy who attacked the brave McCain staffer in Pittsburgh? I’m sure he could intimidate them out there!
Ben
JURISDICTION!
READ and quit assuming that you know what you are talking about!
The Constitution clearly controls how to handle this matter. NOBODY other than the States, the Electors, and Congress, have a say.
However, State Courts MIGHT compel State ELECTORS to withhold votes.
Again, I doubt that will happen, but — you do not understand the basics here.
Yea right Paul. And I’m sure your crazy wild accusations will carry the day!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Again Paul – why would Obama make the trip instead of just sending his thugs?
econ,
Thank you for proving that you right-wingers are very desperate and shrill, by attacking Obama’s visit to his gravely ill grandmother, claiming that his COB is fake, etc.
http://www.electoral-vote.com
“Obama 375 McCain 157 Ties 6″
I’d like someone to ask John Mccain about the origins of his captor’s code name for him ’songbird’, and what the significance of the name is. Or, was it given to him by his fellow captives?
Obviously, bth, he wanted to keep the visit to hawaii low profile, not arouse any suspicions. So, he conned his grandmother into breaking her hip some time ago, to provide cover!
The devious bastard!
Everyone here is aware that Berg v. Obama, et al, was dismissed by the judge Friday evening on the basis of lack of standing, correct? Would post a link, but have never gained the competence to link to a PDF, which is the only form I’ve seen the 34 page memorandum decision in as of now.
Ben
There are several cases of violence and vandalism against McCain supporters now, and Clinton supporters, previously.
PUMA McCain supporters have made many complaints about such actions!
I wasn’t aware there was such a thing as a “short form” COB. I sent for a copy of my daughter’s birth certificate for the first time last year. There was nothing on the checklist about ordering a “short form”. My choices were how many copies I wanted and how I wanted it shipped. Since another daughter just sent for and received hers within the last couple of months using the same method I did and then applied for and received her passport with it, they all must have been “long forms”. ;)
IOW, Franklin, I think you’re full of it.
Predestined
Posted October 27, 2008 at 1:22 pm | Permalink
I wasn’t aware there was such a thing as a “short form” COB. I sent for a copy of my daughter’s birth certificate for the first time last year. There was nothing on the checklist about ordering a “short form”. My choices were how many copies I wanted and how I wanted it shipped. Since another daughter just sent for and received hers within the last couple of months using the same method I did and then applied for and received her passport with it, they all must have been “long forms”. ;)
————————
I think what he is referring to is the vault copy.
The computer generated copies one gets today is not a “copy” of the original certificate. It is a machine reproduced extracted form.
The old, original birth certificates look much different and some contain information such as the baby’s footprint, blood type, etc.
Obama has yet to supply this copy of the vault form.
This is the law, as I understand it:
“The other definite answer is Amendment XX, Section 3:
3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.”
This means that the lawsuit to force Obama to produce his birth certificate and prove that he is a natural-born citizen can go on past the election. In fact, we have all the way to Noon on January 20th.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103327/posts?page=7
The individual political parties could, on their own, disqualify someone to be their nominee.
However, the LAW only gives LEGAL authority to act, AFTER the election of the general population and prior to Congress making a decision!
Until then, there is NO act or action to protest and no legal action can be taken.
LOL!
‘Jeff Larson: Sarah Palin’s Personal Shopper Is Karl Rove’s Former Protégé‘
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/22/jeff-larson-sarah-palins_n_136957.html
“… Keep reading to see the Schedule F form that lists Larson as the purchaser of, among other things, $75,062.63 in clothes and accessories at Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis.
-Or-
See a slideshow of Sarah Palin’s $150,000 style transformation.”
Come on, this was NOT a family visit, since no family members went with Obama.
Why is it so hard to believe that Obama wanted to hear his GRANDMOTHERS side of this story, before she died? I would buy that argument.
After all, none of us, on our own, can really speak as to the circumstances of our own births, can we?
What do you libs want from me?
I am NOT the plaintiff, in 10 different lawsuits on this matter.
I am NOT Obama, who could put an end to all of this, immediately, by releasing his VAULT COPY of his BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
And — the money spent on this issue FAR exceeds anything that Palin has spent on clothing!
“Franklin
Posted October 27, 2008 at 1:21 pm | Permalink
Ben
There are several cases of violence and vandalism against McCain supporters now,”
Yea – like this one:
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/bookman/entries/2008/10/24/the_aftermath_of_ashley_todds.html
The aftermath of Ashley Todd’s story
By Jay Bookman | Friday, October 24, 2008, 04:50 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
McCain volunteer Ashley Todd has now confessed that she made up the story about being attacked by a large black man who carved the letter “B” into her cheek.
The young lady has issues, and I hope she gets the help she needs. End of story.
But let’s talk in a little more depth about the eagerness and even glee with which some in the right-wing blogosphere jumped on that story and immediately claimed it as proof of their worst nightmares coming true. So much of that story was unbelievable from the very beginning, yet certain people wanted to believe it so badly that they ignored all the warning signs and launched into full battle cry.
Andy McCarthy at the National Review’s Corner responded with a post so embarrassing he has now taken it down so nobody can see it.
Dan Riehl at riehlworldview.com posted under the headline “Thugs for change,” claiming that “Obama’s run his campaign just like a street thug out of Chicago. Now we get to see what some of his worst supporters are like.”
Noel Sheppard at newsbusters.org chastized AP for daring to be skeptical of the initial report. Most of all, he wanted to know why the AP didn’t report that the alleged perp was black. How dare they exclude a detail that had no bearing whatsoever on the alleged crime!!
Josh Painter at redstate.com blamed the attack on Barack Obama, suggesting an “Obama thugocracy” was coming: When Obama “urged his supporters to get in their face, did it not occur to him that some of his more deranged followers might take him literally?” Painter asked.
He was echoed by fellow redstater Erick Erickson, who wrote: “Hey! The dude was just doing what The One asked him to. Full pardon on January 21st.”
At Atlas Shugs, they posted the woman’s photo and called it “the new face of the Republican Party.”
“Shame on those that doubted this poor girl,” the post read. “Always ready to jump on the side of the leftists and thugs. ugh. Americans, I implore you to get off your asses and save this country from the radical left coup on the White House, Senate and House…. Perhaps the Obots misunderstood Obama urging his followers to Get In Their Face and GET IN THEIR FACES!” They got the advanced course of Camp Obama to cut up their faces.”
But perhaps the most interesting response came from John Moody, executive vice president at Fox News:
“If Ms. Todd’s allegations are proven accurate, some voters may revisit their support for Senator Obama, not because they are racists (with due respect to Rep. John Murtha), but because they suddenly feel they do not know enough about the Democratic nominee,” Moody wrote. “If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain’s quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race-baiting.”
Now, that is utter nonsense on two counts. First, while the incident did indeed turn out to be a hoax, it has in no way linked McCain to racebaiting and will have no impact whatsoever on the outcome of this race.
But Moody’s claim that Obama supporters might have revisited their position if the story were true is more intriguing, and more revealing as well. Moody claims that under those circumstances, people might suddenly feel they know less about Obama and thus change their vote. But what is the logical trail between those two thoughts? Such an attack would tell people absolutely nothing about Obama.
The real explanation lies in the answer that Moody rejects: racism. A lot of white Americans voting for Obama have had to overcome various degrees of racism to get themselves to that point. That doesn’t make them bad people; to the contrary, they’re thinking things through, and that’s great.
However, for many of those people, an attack of the sort described by Ashley Todd would heighten those internal, emotional obstacles to voting for Obama. That’s precisely why some on the right — with notable exceptions such as Michelle Malkin, a person I do not ordinarily respect much — were so quick to try to make it a huge deal.
They ought to be ashamed.
AV
The Michigan Law Review predicted, awhile back, that the Berg case would be dismissed on “standing” issues.
The Constitution, and the Federal Code, do NOT give FEDERAL Courts much jurisdiction in the matter.
However, STATE COURTS do have much more power, IMHO.
Again, I am not predicting the outcome of the legal issues, I am stating, honestly, that OBAMA is wasting time and money by stonewalling legitimate requests to release his records.
Ben,
You claimed that the Marines just stood there and did nothing as a masacre took place.
Back it up or admit your lie.
You never did either.
Let alone your accusation that the Marines were a legitimate military target and it was not an act of terrorism as you said.
Why do you hate the American militay Ben?
militay – military
“the money spent on this issue FAR exceeds anything that Palin has spent on clothing!”
And it is your delusional side causing it. As vt notes – CASE DISMISSED! I’ll take the attorney’s interpretation of a legal case over yours Paul.
Michigan Law Review:
http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/tokaji.htm
This link is helpfull, but there is now an additional lawsuit, in Ohio:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2113519/posts
vt – question: what does it take to file a lawsuit?
Ben,
Paper and ink. Typed correctly.
#
bth
Posted October 27, 2008 at 1:40 pm | Permalink
vt – question: what does it take to file a lawsuit?
=============================
A file cabinet?
:D
Paper and ink. Typed correctly.
Huh?
Pre
You are wrong, even in Kansas.
You can get a “wallet” Certificate of Live Birth that is NOT valid for certain legal purposes.
“WALLET SIZE CARDS
Wallet size cards may NOT be acceptable identification for passports, travel, social security, school enrollment or driver’s license.
NOTE: The wallet size card does not contain parental information or an embossed seal (contains ink seal only).”
http://www.kdheks.gov/vital/download/birth.pdf
The above is listed from the KANSAS APPLICATION for Birth Records!
Again, you libs should do some research before you make ignorant statements!
Ben,
If you have paper, with ink, with the correct typing, filed with the appropriate people, you have a lawsuit.
Now Ben,
About that proof?
And why do you hate the American military?
Seems to me, Franklin, the state courts would have no jurisdiction in the matter; just one guy’s opinion.
All this discussion about a “vault copy”. A clarification for me: given that the original paper copy of the birth certificate likely ceased to exist, after the same was microfilmed, what is it that could be produced that would satisfy you? I’ve seen a certified copy of several birth certificates, and have seen the form upon which live births are reported (yes, it has changed a bit in the past approximately 30 years, more information is now required on the certificate of live birth than what used to be required), and it seems that the information shown on the certified copy is the same information as shown on the report of live birth; there is nothing required on the certificate of live birth that doesn’t show on the certified copy. What “used to be”? I don’t know, I just know what is shown on the certified copy of my birth certificate from 1950.
Footprint? On the “hospital” birth certificate of me and my siblings, most definitely; on the official form, there seems to be no such thing requested. Blood type? Don’t know; it isn’t asked for on the Kansas form; Hawaii might well be different.
Nathaniel,
Is VP Cheney going to come out of his undisclosed location, and convince Senator Reid to make a lot of policy changes?
Ben
Ashley Todd is a disturbed person.
She needs help.
Ashley Todd was, formerly, a Ron Paul supporter.
The Ron Paul people thought she was too crazy for them, and asked her to leave their ranks.
Now, HERE is a DEMOCRAT run site, from a PUMA/Clinton supporter, that clearly shows vandalism against McCain supporters:
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/10/pumas-the-democrats-the-media-doesnt-want-to-talk-about/
Here is another link to anti-McCain, pro-Obama vandalism:
http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/26/obama-followers-vandalize-homes-in-gainesville/
Mr. Hussein, Why are you going to take Joe the Plumbers hard earned money and give it to the ones that are too lazy to work?
Uh er good for…and uh spread the money…uh..Sarah Palin paid $150k on clothes!!!!
To file a civil lawsuit, there must be a pleading filed (truthful or not) and a filing fee paid (unless a poverty affidavit is used to excuse the filing fee, or unless a governmental agency is excused, by statute, from paying a filing fee, which is then usually taxed as costs). While Kansas still uses paper pleadings, many of the federal courts use electronic filing.
Nathan – thanks for the clarification on lawsuits.
Now why do you hate all civilians?
Ben
Again your arrogance and your ignorance is showing.
There are at least 10 STATE COURT cases pending.
NONE of the State Actions have been dismissed.
Obama is wasting Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars fighting these lawsuits —
And they would ALL go away (and save lots of money) If Obama would just give up his valid, actual, Vault Copy of his Birth Certificate!
vt – and as I noted, I got my Passport without a footprint or anything like that.
Paul – vt noted that the original one was tossed out. And, as he noted, you nutcases can continue to file frivolity all day long – and I’m sure you will!
And Paul – I suspect vt knows just a little bit more about legal matters than you do!
AV
Actually, no, the original “Vault Copy” is not destroyed in any jurisdiction that I am aware of.
In fact, the Governor of Hawaii has just given instructions that Obama’s records are to be protected.
I believe that actual records DO exist.
I also KNOW that Obama does not want us to see those records, as Obama has said he would be “embarrassed” by those records.
Ben,
You routinely side against the American military and continue to uphold accusations against them that have been proven false.
You are usually the first in line to take the side against the military.
You posted that the Marines just stood by and did nothing while a masacre took place.
You have yet to provide any proof for that.
Where is your proof?
Early day out – afternoon off! WHEEEEE! Outta here …
#
avtolle
Posted October 27, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
Seems to me, Franklin, the state courts would have no jurisdiction in the matter; just one guy’s opinion.
All this discussion about a “vault copy”. A clarification for me: given that the original paper copy of the birth certificate likely ceased to exist, after the same was microfilmed, what is it that could be produced that would satisfy you? I’ve seen a certified copy of several birth certificates, and have seen the form upon which live births are reported (yes, it has changed a bit in the past approximately 30 years, more information is now required on the certificate of live birth than what used to be required), and it seems that the information shown on the certified copy is the same information as shown on the report of live birth; there is nothing required on the certificate of live birth that doesn’t show on the certified copy. What “used to be”? I don’t know, I just know what is shown on the certified copy of my birth certificate from 1950.
Footprint? On the “hospital” birth certificate of me and my siblings, most definitely; on the official form, there seems to be no such thing requested. Blood type? Don’t know; it isn’t asked for on the Kansas form; Hawaii might well be different.
———————————-
Just referencing my experience doing genealogy in several dozen states. I’ve seen everything from simple log books to entire files (including Church Christenings) kept with birth certificates stored in archives (Federal, State, County, Municipalities.)
My birth certificate from Kansas has a footprint, blood type, occupation of father and mother, etc.
I’ve also did genealogy research for a couple and found the only information on the mother of the daughter requesting the information, was the name of the parents and the name of a child in a log book. That was it, other than the county and date where they were born (prior to 1920, Texas)
AV
A “Certified Copy” is an actual copy, or picture, of the original document, which is then Certified by the proper jurisdiction.
A “Certificate of Live Birth” does not pretend to be a copy of the original, it simply states, in short form, a limited amount of information obtained from the original.
Ben,
Every single reputable source that I know of identifies the attack against the Marines in Lebanon which resulted in over 200 dead as a terrorist attack.
You implied it was not and was merely a legitimate attack against a military target.
Why?
Ben,
You are a cowardly SOB who makes false accuastions against our brave men and women.
You have no balls to back up your claims or admit you are a liar.
Run away coward.
biased1 posted October 27, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Mr. Hussein, Why are you going to take Joe the Plumbers hard earned money and give it to the ones that are too lazy to work?
—————
‘Joe the faux plumber’ would KEEP more of his income under Obama’s tax policy.
But don’t let facts and reality influence you, “biased1″.
Franklin, perhaps I should clarify a bit. The original records are, as you are well aware, usually after the same are microfilmed or placed on microfiche, then stored (in Kansas, at the “salt mines” in Hutchinson). However, that isn’t “in a vault”; the copy within the direct custody of the agency is a microfilmed, etc., copy. Once stored, the original paper is subject to decay, etc., and if properly indexed, subject to retrieval from the storage facility. I didn’t mean to imply that the “original” was destroyed by conscious action of a governmental official once copied; rather, that the original document was no longer in the direct custody of the appropriate official, thus my query as to “vault copy” and its meaning.
Well I know it aint sexist.
What I am NOT convinced of is that Sarah Palin is really a woman.
Most women I know or have heard of don’t get their jollies shooting animals from a helicopter.
You wouldn’t settle for the ‘vault copy’ (where do the keep the vault?), you’d demand the original. This subject is just a little bit too looney to spend any more time on for me.
Let’s get back to Sarah’s spending binge.
AV
Did you read the Michigan Law Review article that I posted?
They seem to disagree with you, and state that STATE COURTS have MORE power, in this area, than Federal Courts.
States DO have jurisdiction over their own Electors.
http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/tokaji.htm
And, it is not my point, here, to say that Obama is a Kenyan or an Indonesian, and therefore not qualified. It is also not my point that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” —
It is my point that Obama could end all of this, quickly, but is instead refusing to agree to a valid request for his records.
I being so arrogant and stubborn, Obama is wasting quite a bit of money on legal issues.
Nathaniel,
Is VP Cheney “in charge” of the U.S. Senate? Can Cheney make a lot of policy changes in the Senate?
“Vault Copy” needs clarification, as well.
The microfilm of the original would be a “Copy” of the original, which is of course in storage.
As a former Chief Deputy Clerk, I dug up lots of records that were far more than 50 years old, for various legal reasons.
Most of those records were in very good shape.
Franklin, on the definition of “certified copy”, we are in agreement. The Kansas wallet sized card is not, to my knowledge, characterized as a “certified copy”, at least as that term is used in the areas of my practice, else it would be acceptable for all legal purposes where a certified copy is acceptable.
BlueJay
Posted October 27, 2008 at 2:03 pm | Permalink
Well I know it aint sexist.
What I am NOT convinced of is that Sarah Palin is really a woman.
Most women I know or have heard of don’t get their jollies shooting animals from a helicopter.
==========
Being a Liberal Pu$$y is no excuse to be sexist and think only men hunt, BlueJay.
cosmos
What does “President of the Senate” mean?
It means that the VP PRESIDES over the Senate.
You are being very petty.
What’s with all this whining from Republicans or whoever they are who are apologizing for the Dude and Diva from Wasilla? So the Red Neck Diva spends $150,000 on duds from Saks? Let her enjoy her brief moment in the sun. If McWorse loses Virgina, it’s a moot question; it’s all over. And good riddance.
Cosmos,
Cheney is the President of the Senate, yes. He is able to be a part of making policy changes if he wants to.
I don’t call running an animal to exhaustion before shooting it from a helicopter “hunting”.
I don’t call anyone who would do it human.
Apparently Obama is a tough cookie that refuses to crumble:
“I(sic) being so arrogant and stubborn, Obama is…”
Thanks for providing evidence that Obama has a backbone of steel as Biden said. He will not backdown from a fight like McCain who wouldn’t debate but then would debate when he saw his tantrum wasn’t working.
Franklin is right. Obama will never back down from a righteous fight!
Franklin, on the point of the old records which are stored in the salt mines being in good shape, in general, I’ve found the same thing. The beauty of use of the salt mines, right?
Wow this has stirred up the nest, eh? Let us be honest if the roles were reversed the Conservitives would be all over it. Don’t lie you know it is true.
Nathaniel posted October 27, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Cheney is the President of the Senate, yes. He is able to be a part of making policy changes if he wants to.
————–
How many times has Cheney caused Senator Reid to make policy changes?
#
avtolle
Posted October 27, 2008 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
Franklin, on the point of the old records which are stored in the salt mines being in good shape, in general, I’ve found the same thing. The beauty of use of the salt mines, right?
——————–
It would be interesting to head on down to the Salt Mines with an old movie projector and a sack of popcorn, watch a few of the old ‘flicks’ stored there. :)
Remember when they used to make fun of Hillary’s pantsuits, or how she looked, and etc etc etc, and we screamed sexism over it. Because it was. Nowhere did anyone bring up how much money she spent. Spending for someone who claims to be a conservative THIS MUCH on outward appearances should be addressed. It also is typical of the republican party where whats on the outside that counts more than the message or what is on the inside.
#
Political_mama
Posted October 27, 2008 at 2:23 pm | Permalink
Remember when they used to make fun of Hillary’s pantsuits, or how she looked, and etc etc etc, and we screamed sexism over it. Because it was. Nowhere did anyone bring up how much money she spent. Spending for someone who claims to be a conservative THIS MUCH on outward appearances should be addressed. It also is typical of the republican party where whats on the outside that counts more than the message or what is on the inside.
============================
It’s like candy bars, the chewy bits often on the inside are the real treats. :D
econ posted October 27, 2008 at 2:09 pm
cosmos
What does “President of the Senate” mean?
It means that the VP PRESIDES over the Senate.
You are being very petty.
————–
And econ is being stupid. “Presiding” only means enforcing rules and procedures. The Senate Majority leader is “in charge” of the Senate, and controls what policies are brought forward.
My thought on the topic as posted: if the DNC had used donations to clothe Sen. Biden, and duly reported the same to the FEC, and the media had not reported it, then the reporting of similar RNC expenditures on behalf of Gov. Palin would be sexist. Otherwise, no, the reporting (done to sell soap) isn’t sexist. Silly, yes; sexist, no.
A few excerpts from an excellent article about the current blatant media bias, and the harm it is causing the country.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=1
“Meanwhile, I watched with disbelief as the nation’s leading newspapers, many of whom I’d written for in the past, slowly let opinion pieces creep into the news section, and from there onto the front page. Personal opinions and comments that, had they appeared in my stories in 1979, would have gotten my butt kicked by the nearest copy editor, were now standard operating procedure at the New York Times, the Washington Post, and soon after in almost every small town paper in the U.S.
But what really shattered my faith — and I know the day and place where it happened — was the war in Lebanon three summers ago. The hotel I was staying at in Windhoek, Namibia, only carried CNN, a network I’d already learned to approach with skepticism. But this was CNN International, which is even worse.
I sat there, first with my jaw hanging down, then actually shouting at the TV, as one field reporter after another reported the carnage of the Israeli attacks on Beirut, with almost no corresponding coverage of the Hezbollah missiles raining down on northern Israel. The reporting was so utterly and shamelessly biased that I sat there for hours watching, assuming that eventually CNNi would get around to telling the rest of the story … but it never happened.” ….
….”But nothing, nothing I’ve seen has matched the media bias on display in the current presidential campaign.
Republicans are justifiably foaming at the mouth over the sheer one-sidedness of the press coverage of the two candidates and their running mates. But in the last few days, even Democrats, who have been gloating over the pass — no, make that shameless support — they’ve gotten from the press, are starting to get uncomfortable as they realize that no one wins in the long run when we don’t have a free and fair press.
I was one of the first people in the traditional media to call for the firing of Dan Rather — not because of his phony story, but because he refused to admit his mistake — but, bless him, even Gunga Dan thinks the media is one-sided in this election.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not one of those people who think the media has been too hard on, say, Republican vice presidential nominee Gov. Sarah Palin, by rushing reportorial SWAT teams to her home state of Alaska to rifle through her garbage. This is the big leagues, and if she wants to suit up and take the field, then Gov. Palin better be ready to play.”…..
…..”If the current polls are correct, we are about to elect as president of the United States a man who is essentially a cipher, who has left almost no paper trail, seems to have few friends (that at least will talk) and has entire years missing out of his biography.
That isn’t Sen. Obama’s fault: His job is to put his best face forward. No, it is the traditional media’s fault, for it alone (unlike the alternative media) has had the resources to cover this story properly, and has systematically refused to do so.
Why, for example to quote the lawyer for Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., haven’t we seen an interview with Sen. Obama’s grad school drug dealer — when we know all about Mrs. McCain’s addiction? Are Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko that hard to interview? All those phony voter registrations that hard to scrutinize? And why are Sen. Biden’s endless gaffes almost always covered up, or rationalized, by the traditional media?”
OMG! The whining is incredible. See ya later.
Has mccain produced his vault copy?
The old, original birth certificates look much different
Here’s one for you, boys. I have two birth certificates. One is handwritten, the other is typed. Anyone here know why? (Both were made in the same year.)
My bc looks quite different than three of my daughters’ bcs and still different than the youngest. Doesn’t mean a thing.
Yes, Franklin, I know about the little plastic bc cards. I have one for each of my three oldest daughters. I was applying for a birth certificate, not a card. I suppose I should have mentioned that, but I wanted to see what you would do with the information first. Thanks for living up to your reputation. :)
Hubby’s birth certificate (like mine, probably ’cause we’re old) asks questions like the occupation of the parents… Hubby was born in Elgin, Illinois while his Dad was attending watch college, and his occupation is listed as watch maker. When we applied for passports the clerk at the post office read the occupation as match maker and commented that was a first.
Linda,
My mother’s original birth certificate was destroyed in a courthouse fire in Missouri back in the 1920’s. You should have seen the hoops she had to jump through when she applied for her passport!
I’m glad she got through those hoops, Jed. Although, since (obviously) hers isn’t a “vault copy” Franklin wouldn’t accept it as anything official. Guess when she runs for POTUS Franklin will question whether she is legally eligible. ;-)
#
lindainks55
Posted October 27, 2008 at 3:40 pm | Permalink
Hubby’s birth certificate (like mine, probably ’cause we’re old) asks questions like the occupation of the parents… Hubby was born in Elgin, Illinois while his Dad was attending watch college, and his occupation is listed as watch maker. When we applied for passports the clerk at the post office read the occupation as match maker and commented that was a first.
========================
Isn’t your birth certificate a ceremonial stick with intricate carvings on it indicating moon and star alignment? :D
Yeah, something like that, the intricate carvings were made with the sharp tooth of an animal, as knives hadn’t yet been forged even from arrowheads or sharp hard stones. Probably also not “vault copy” officous. ;-)
Linda,
I rather doubt she’ll run, even though her death 10yrs ago would give her the same qualifications McCane has.
Recently to obtain a passport, I sent away to Michigan for a copy of my birth certificate. It simply states that it is a Certificate of Birth. There is no mention of a CoLB or Vault Certificate. There was a statement from the dr.
saying I was a live birth. (He had 2 choices–saying I was born live or born dead.)
Being a federalist, I can believe that each state handles birth certificates in its own way. There is no national standard for an acceptable birth certificate copy.
I see Franklin, the ultimate moron, still believes Obama is not a natural born citizen.
I got news for you, O slightly less intelligent than a one cell amoeba: The President of the United States of America is privy to the most top secret sh$t in this country. As such, he is vetted by every alphabet agency known to man. If he was not born in this country, he would not be allowed to run for President because of the vetting process.
This is done when someone proclaims he or she is running for President, as intelligence does not want to get caught with its collective pants down.
So, moron, there is no way Obama would be running for prez if he was not a natural born citizen . . . period. Unless you think the intelligence community is too stupid to find him out. In which case, if you believe that, what then hell are we doing in Iraq? Obviously, if they’re too stupid to check out Obama, they’re way too stupid to know there were no WMD in Iraq.
So, in my humble opinion, you are indeed the stupid one, and your opinion carries about as much weight as a sack full of Regulars used depends. In other words, you’re full of sh&t.
As for Palin spending $150,000? I could care less. Big freakin’ deal.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — A jury found U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens of Alaska guilty Monday of all seven counts in his federal corruption trial.
Sen. Ted Stevens leaves federal court Monday as the jury deliberated in his corruption trial.
The jury found Stevens guilty of “knowingly and willfully” scheming to conceal on Senate disclosure forms more than $250,000 in home renovations and other gifts from an Alaska-based oil industry contractor.
Stevens faces a maximum sentence of up to to 35 years in prison — five years for each of the seven counts.
_______________________________________________________
Its only a matter of time before the courts/Dems get around to Palin’s house being built for free by contractors working nearby on a government contract.
Sounds just like Stevens.
Just think if you a typical small business owner who had really sacrificed to make a 250 dollar donation.
Now you find out that your money went to hair and makeup.
“How many times do you have to get hit over the head to see who’s hitting you.” Harry Truman
Walker–
The right-wing idiot squad — Frankie baby, ReguLIAR, outhouse, HeLP and Bigotbox — know damn well that Obama is a citizen.
They simply use any despicable slander if they think it might work.
If they thought that any potential voter would believe that “Obama drinks the still-warm blood of aborted babies while chanting to Ba’al,” they would say it.
Their own belief has nothing to do with it.
Nathan:
Go to Hell
Go directly to Hell
Do not pass Go
Do not collect $200
Now again I ask: Why do you hate all civilians?
Franklin
Posted October 27, 2008 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
Want “proof” of that? Try to get a passport with only a “short form” COB. Let me know how that works out for you!
—
I have a laminated, very worn brown “short form” COB that I have carried behind my driver’s license for at least twenty years now, and it got me my passport with no problem (in Houston, TX).
You have no clue what you’re talking about.
As usual, your ineptness as a polemicist is exceeded only by the number of times you’re flat out wrong.
“You implied it was not and was merely a legitimate attack against a military target.
Why?”
Ronald Reagan foolishly placed our troos in harms ay on an ill-defined mission. On that mission they becams identified with the other military forces which were occupying that country. That made them occupying troops. As such, the population saw them as occupiers. How would WE react to an occupying military force.
I do NOT place blame on our brave troops any more than I do for my family members who served in WW2, Korea, VietNam. I DO, however, place blame on the civilian leadership who created the situation. The only ‘tactical’ fault that I might look at would be the poor security at the barracks. One would think that knowing that they were viewed as occupiers that someone would have made certain that there was sufficient security.
I see numerous places where our troops might be needed in a peace-keeping capacity.
That is, in many ways, even more difficult than ‘traditional’ warfare. I salute our brave men and women who take on such tasks. I just wish the civilian leadership were more circumspect in these missions and would provide them with all of the resources they need – including INTEL.
“Hubby was born in Elgin, Illinois while his Dad was attending watch college”
THAT was a long time ago. I lived in Elgin for a while – the watch factory was long gone.
“It was fair game to talk about John Edwards’ $400 haircut (which conservative commentators did for weeks), because Edwards was basing much of his presidential campaign on poverty issues.”
Nathan had it right much earlier. It never was about his stance on poverty, it was about $400 for a haircut. When one phrases a question in order to make ones rebuttal easier to defend, we know the rebuttal is weak.
The Youtube “I feel pretty” didn’t help Edwards (”I only cheated when my wife’s cancer was in remission”) either.
The sexist part comes when no one reports on the wardrobe costs of the men. It can’t be cheap.
Well Ben, I think we compared ages once and decided we are the same age. It was a loooong time ago! ;-)
CapnAmerica
Posted October 27, 2008 at 6:18 pm | Permalink
Walker–
The right-wing idiot squad — Frankie baby, ReguLIAR, outhouse, HeLP and Bigotbox — know damn well that Obama is a citizen.
——————
Hey CapnDumbsh*t. I don’t believe that I have commented on the issue.
What’s the matter, can dummies like you only think of people as a group?
linda – my last birthday someone at work asked ‘how many’. I told him I had submitted a sample to my old thesis advisor for C-14 and would let him know.
#
bth
Posted October 27, 2008 at 7:24 pm | Permalink
linda – my last birthday someone at work asked ‘how many’. I told him I had submitted a sample to my old thesis advisor for C-14 and would let him know.
——————————
At your age, they may want to use Thorium. :D
A sort of general comment about birth certificates and ‘papers’ overall. I remember the first time I had to do an I-9 for empoyment. I had a bit of a problem – I did not have an SS card. I had a number and knew it but the card (clearly marked “not to be used for identification”) had long since been destroyed. (pretty lousy paper stock) Seems ‘back then’ “we don’t need no stinking papers” (paraphrased).
I think that we need to keep that in mind as we seek better ID for voting etc. Many older citizens might have trouble establishing a complete paper trail. I know that it used to be that secondary documents such as family Bibles were accepted. I would suggest that we will need to do that.
At your age, they may want to use Thorium. :D
COLD!
:)
You are right about that, Ben!
My Mother couldn’t get her birth certificate because of a fire in the court house (just like Jed’s Mother!). My Mother never had a passport but did need proof for social security. It was a mess! And you know what finally was accepted? The family Bible, proof of the fire at the courthouse, census records back when they listed who lived where, check stubs, employment records.
And, even tho you and I joke, we aren’t THAT old and yet like you said that flimsy paper social security card was long-ago lost.
What about all the people who are victims of nature (Greensburg, New Orleans, …) AND there had been a fire or …
This isn’t a situation where hard fast rules can apply until those hard fast rules are made and understood so the significance of those documents sinks in and we make sure they are protected.
Another sort of general comment on Obama’s birth certificate.
I love the fact that he’s thumbed his nose at the right wing fringe and let ‘em just stew in their juices.
In fact, they’ve simmered in their own juices for so long now that they’re cooked. They have bayed at the moon, howled like coyotes and in general just behaved like mad dogs. Franklin for one whines that Obama’s “stubborn” and “arrogant.”
I love it.
After the vile Swift Boat attacks of 2004 — after that REAL display of arrogance and phony patriotism — I find Obama’s strategy something more than refreshing. Hell, it’s down right INVIGORATING!
Karma’s a biatch!
ALRIGHT! Another uniformative Palin masterbation thread for the libs to drool and slaver over. Probably slobbering all over her photo and breathing spittle all over your monitors.
Hey libs! Leave all other threads immediately. Gotta get your nut off on worthless Palin posts which do nothing except increase the hits for the weblog.
Olly olly oxen free!
And this is my last comment today.
Anybody see the Obama tax calculator? Pretty sweet!!
http://taxcut.barackobama.com/
” Obama tax calculator”
Obama Buy Your Vote Calculator.
How much FREE MONEY he will hand out and redistribute to get elected. Wonderful! Just what America needs – more FREE MONEY!!
Starts at 20,000.. Includes the 40% of Americans who pay zero federal taxes now.
Great gimmick. Bad for America. But great gimmick!
And stop that! This is the PALIN THREAD!
Give me a P
Give me a A
Give me an L
Give me an I
Give me an N
What’s that spell?
PALIN!!! Our future!
Wow, Republicans are attacking Obama for seeing his dying grandma, Republicans were caught planning an assassination, a Republican lies about being attacked by an Obama supporter, but now Republicans are champions of women and oppose sexism.
Nobody is buying this latest shade of Republican lipstick. Here’s the reason Republicans are so desperate:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
McCain might not carry Arizona, Montana, Georgia, North Dakota, South Dakota, Virginia and North Carolina. Democrats will take 59 seats in the Senate and 252 seats in the House. And worse of all for the Republicans, if they want to leave the country nobody else will want to take them. Who would want a bunch of violent fundamentalist racists who can’t balance a checkbook?
Amway lies:
“Starts at 20,000.. Includes the 40% of Americans who pay zero federal taxes now.”
Everyone who works pays federal taxes. Are you claiming that there is a 40% unemployment rate? No surprise Republicans have to resort to lies.
Pendant mentions:
“Another sort of general comment on Obama’s birth certificate.”
A judge has already tossed the lawsuit claiming Obama isn’t really an American citizen. No doubt the Republicans will be buying up tin foil for making hats about this latest, non-existent, Democratic scandal.
I’ll bet they are already drawing up plans on how to impeach President Obama. Republicans just hate America.
I think what depresses me most about this election is all those who claim to be Christian who think nothing of spreading gossip and falsehoods about a good man who has the potential to be not only a good leader, but a great one. They claim to be Christian, but are so filled with hatred and intolerance, especially towards anyone who disagrees with their point of view. They have very little, if any, compassion for their fellow man and go against nearly every value that Jesus taught. They are so arrogant that they refuse to listen to or consider anything that doesn’t validate their narrow, rigid opinions and will believe any lie meant to tear someone down, no matter how ridiculous it is. I hate their false and venomous attacks on good people…and all in the name of Christian and family values. I’m SO sick of it and will be glad when this election is over so I won’t be surrounded by it so much.
I believe the Christian religion has really been damaged by those who use it to manipulate others and as a weapon to justify hatred, intolerance, and anger. It’s been hijacked and turned into something different than what Jesus meant it to be.
I’ll add an “amen” to that, Mary.
Linda–
Not only loss of those papers through natural disasters, but my ex’s grandparents were planning a trip to Europe years ago and needed passports. His grandfather was born in Oklahoma before it was a state, so there were no official birth records kept. (OK just celebrated its centennial…last year, I think it was.) Finally, after a lot of trial and error and hunting, the passport office accepted an old grade school diploma.
And has no one figured out why I have TWO birth certificates? (KFG, you don’t count, but VT might be able to guess.)
If I have two birth certificates, does that make me born again?
Sorry, just a little Christian humor. ;)
You were adopted? You shouldn’t have mentioned farmgrrl.
I’ll bet they are already drawing up plans on how to impeach President Obama.
Oh, definitely, MP. Just like they did with Clinton. What do you suppose that would be a sign of? Other than being sore losers, that is. :)
Surely they learned the futility of impeachment? Please tell me they learned that lesson.
Have they looked at the possible SUPER majority the Democrats may enjoy in the Senate?
If they pull that kind of stupidity — waste everyone’s time and money — it better be for a really really good legal reason.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted October 27, 2008 at 8:32 pm | Permalink
I think what depresses me most about this election is all those who claim to be Christian who think nothing of spreading gossip and falsehoods about a good man who has the potential to be not only a good leader, but a great one. They claim to be Christian, but are so filled with hatred and intolerance, especially towards anyone who disagrees with their point of view. They have very little, if any, compassion for their fellow man and go against nearly every value that Jesus taught. They are so arrogant that they refuse to listen to or consider anything that doesn’t validate their narrow, rigid opinions and will believe any lie meant to tear someone down, no matter how ridiculous it is. I hate their false and venomous attacks on good people…and all in the name of Christian and family values. I’m SO sick of it and will be glad when this election is over so I won’t be surrounded by it so much.
I believe the Christian religion has really been damaged by those who use it to manipulate others and as a weapon to justify hatred, intolerance, and anger. It’s been hijacked and turned into something different than what Jesus meant it to be.
===========================
Word of advice, we aren’t priests or saints.
Politics, however dirty the scrap might be is scrimmage on a mud playing field.
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.
Supreme Court Justice Brandeis
We argue the nit and forget the larger picture sometimes.
“Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.”
— Oscar Ameringer
“So what ever you do to the least of my brethern, so you do unto ME.”
-Jesus Christ
“Word of advice, we aren’t priests or saints.”
But as a Christian…you should internalize the values…not make excuses for your deliberate actions that go against God’s laws.
Awwww, Linda wins. :) Yes.
One “original” and one “amended”, each with a different name. The original is handwritten, the amended is typed. Even the registrar’s “signature” is typed.
“The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”
Supreme Court Justice Brandeis
That pretty much describes the leadership we’ve had the last 8 years…it’s time for a change.
Mary,
Like everything else, some talk the talk and others walk the walk.
I’m thinking the next biggy from the wing nuts will be working Obama’s name into 666. And it will probably be the Christian right wing of the Republican party doing it.
Come on, Franklin, you can do it!!!
#
American_Way
Posted October 27, 2008 at 7:49 pm | Permalink
” Obama tax calculator”
Obama Buy Your Vote Calculator.
How much FREE MONEY he will hand out and redistribute to get elected. Wonderful! Just what America needs – more FREE MONEY!!
Starts at 20,000.. Includes the 40% of Americans who pay zero federal taxes now.
Great gimmick. Bad for America. But great gimmick!
And stop that! This is the PALIN THREAD!
Give me a P
Give me a A
Give me an L
Give me an I
Give me an N
What’s that spell?
PALIN!!! Our future!
=====================================================
. . .and then there’s amway. Sold door to door as the only way to clean your dirty drawers. Guaranteed to get out those stubborn brown streaks and leave a nice, pleasant smell of failed financial institutions. Dump a cup full of amway in your next load of dirty laundry, and watch those nasty stains spread from garment industry to garment industry.
Free with your next purchase of amway is a bound and signed copy of pauliewanna. Read how this country is being destroyed by government’s invasion of hospitals with the sole purpose of manufacturing fake birth certificates.
Be astonished by how the government, on August forth, nineteen hundred and sixty one, falsified one Barack Hussein Obama’s birth certificate, and added a note in the town paper noting his birth, when in fact Barack Hussein Obama was born in a manger in Jerusalem. This government, also known as The United States Government, knew from an early date this man would one day want to run for President of the United States of America, so they had to falsify documents in order for this to come to pass.
Each bound copy has been signed, in one name or another, by the author, pauliewanna.
Everyone who works pays federal taxes.
Lies, lies, and more lies from the socialist left.
Sorry, no they do not. They get it all back. Further, they MAY even be eligible for ADVANCE payment of the UNearned Income Tax.
The poor pay zero federal taxes.
Some books will be signed, “pauliewannacracker,” and some will be signed, “paulieisacracker.”
You’re so good, JMWalker! I wish I had been around when you had everyone fooled about “Mother.” I’m not very good at bonedigs, but maybe I could find some of that fun…
#
American_Way
Posted October 27, 2008 at 9:28 pm | Permalink
Everyone who works pays federal taxes.
Lies, lies, and more lies from the socialist left.
Sorry, no they do not. They get it all back. Further, they MAY even be eligible for ADVANCE payment of the UNearned Income Tax.
The poor pay zero federal taxes.
====================================================
Yep, and according to Max, they’ll pay less than zero under Obama. Kinda like Max’s IQ.
JMWalker,
You are cute, but I already own a dog. If you want to simply post trash you make up along the way, that is fine. But there are those posters who are interested in a little truth along the way. Few, but they are here.
Your post is nothing but trash you found or made up. Pretty typical trash. Must be something you are close to.
Ah Linda, Mother was the most fun I’ve had here. Well, maybe the tar baby thing with my bud, brer rabbit.
“Republicans were caught planning an assassination”
And typical Maggotpunk posts lies and trash.
Must make him/her it feel good. Can’t figure out why else it would post such nonsense.
But for the koolaid drinking sheep, it holds water.
#
American_Way
Posted October 27, 2008 at 9:30 pm | Permalink
JMWalker,
You are cute, but I already own a dog. If you want to simply post trash you make up along the way, that is fine. But there are those posters who are interested in a little truth along the way. Few, but they are here.
Your post is nothing but trash you found or made up. Pretty typical trash. Must be something you are close to.
=================================================
Ahhhh, amway, no sense of humor? Is we being the blog monitor? And I’m really not cute: in fact I’m a bit chubby, bald and ugly:-) Oh, ya, I’m also a Liberal, which means I have 1) a sense of humor, 2) a brain with which to make up humorous nonsense, and 3)the ability to know when the truth is posted here. Your sh&t is neither funny nor true, which means you must be . . .
Wait for it . . .
an extreme right-wing Republican.
baaabaaaabaaa
sheeple.
Linda?
I don’t know how to go about looking for “mother”.
But if you want some fun stuff? Try the google with “WE Blog”+”Brer Rabbit”.
#
American_Way
Posted October 27, 2008 at 9:33 pm | Permalink
“Republicans were caught planning an assassination”
And typical Maggotpunk posts lies and trash.
Must make him/her it feel good. Can’t figure out why else it would post such nonsense.
But for the koolaid drinking sheep, it holds water.
========================================================
Really? Know anything about you right-wingers throwin’ trash at Liberals over some nut job beating the crap out of herself? I think if you swap out maggotpunk with American Way in the above post, we really got something.
Frikin hypocrite.
“Lies, lies, and more lies from the socialist left.
Sorry, no they do not. They get it all back. Further, they MAY even be eligible for ADVANCE payment of the UNearned Income Tax.
The poor pay zero federal taxes.”
Amway gets caught in a lie again. I’m supposing you don’t have a job because if you had a paycheck you’d notice the FICA, social security and medicare taxes on the check. Those are all taxes implemented by the federal government that are withdrawn from working people’s wages. Tell me, oh wise one, if I’m not paying federal taxes then why isn’t my paycheck bigger?
It’s no surprise you don’t bitch about the tax breaks the poor don’t get. Why not rail against the deduction for mortgage interest, or the lower tax rate of 15% on dividend/interest profit? Nah, it’s always class warfare by the Republicans who despise the middle class and want to see it eliminated.
Maggotick- FICA, social security and medicare taxes on the check.
Those are not “taxes”