The “Saturday Night Live” skit on the vice presidential debate noted the drinking games built on Sarah Palin’s repeated use of the word “maverick.” At tonight’s town hall-style debate between John McCain and Barack Obama, viewers might want to listen for the Republican’s references to Iraq surge architect Gen. David Petraeus (in photo), who got seven mentions by McCain at the first debate. “When was the last time a serving U.S. military officer was made to play such a large role in a presidential campaign, even if involuntarily? There may be no modern precedent,” wrote Jackson Diehl in the Washington Post. He concluded: “by employing the general so heavily in his rhetoric, McCain is doing a disservice to a commander whose skills the next president will sorely need – especially if he is Obama.”
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130 Comments
Heck, throw out mccain and run the genius ‘Petraeus’. What kind of name is that with three vowels together?
Who’s Petraeus endorsing? I guess if it’s endorsement by association, palin and mccain have him in their camp.
We are war with the terrorists, in my opinion there is no more important issue. We can do a word search on the Eagle and find how many yes but’s they use in their articles. This is petty. No Muslim Obama for me.
If we are in a war with terrorists, then why did George W. Bush invade Iraq and not go after Bin Laden in Afghanistan? Bush, himself, has stated that he does not even think about Bin Laden anymore. What a slap in the face of each 9/11 victim and all Americans.
BTW, how can we continue to pay for a war when we are bankrupt? Bush has failed economic and foreign policies and McCain will continue the very policies. How will that change things?
Heaven forbid we should honor our troops or the smart,capable leadership of General Petraeus.
Perhaps McCain should make a statement like Obama did, ‘bombing innocent women and children,’ and be done with it.
9/11
Patraeus
Terrorist
Muslim Obama
All Muslims are evil
9/11
wash, rince, repeat …
Sen. McCain would be smart to suggest that the General could be his Defense Secretary.
And to remind voters that Obama is pals with an American terrorist…
If McCain was really honoring General Petraeus and the troops, then he would not be using his the general’s name in the same way Rudy Guiliani uses 9/11 all the time – for his own political gain.
Regular posted October 7, 2008 at 9:09 am
“Perhaps McCain should make a statement like Obama did, ‘bombing innocent women and children,’ and be done with it.”
————
What does McCain think about troops killing more civilians than the insurgents?
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html
“Obama (August 2007): We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.
———-
The Associated Press fact-checked this one, and found that in fact U.S troops were killing more civilians at the time than insurgents: “As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party.” Afghan President Hamid Karzai had expressed concern about these civilian killings, a concern President Bush said he shared.
Whether Obama said that this was “all we’re doing” is debatable. He said that we need to have enough troops so that we’re “not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians,” but did not say that troops are doing nothing else.”
Before we go honoring Gen. Petraeus for how well “The Surge” is working, checking out Bob Woodward’s new book, The War Within, might be a good idea.
In it, he explains that he was told by the Administration that the decreased violence in Iraq isn’t so much because of “The Surge”, but because of highly classified techniques of operation we’ve been using. He is not revealing those techniques, as well he shouldn’t. But once again, we’ve been bamboozled with catch phrases.
Don’t believe me? Read the book. Or check out his interview. This particular subject is discussed beginning at about 5:46 on the video, in case you want to skip the rest. The rest is equally interesting though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOR7geNWsTw&feature=related
cosmos_originally posted
October 7, 2008 at 9:29 am
Whether Obama said that this was “all we’re doing” is debatable. He said that we need to have enough camel sex and sheep sodomy.”
Regular after I went to bed last night it seems the discussion went on. The ‘meetup’ Nathan and I were talking about is the Sedgwick County Repub Party October meeting. You are certainly invited and any other repub that would like to come.
I don’t have private email addresses and so can’t go ‘off board’ as some here do. Those libs will grab at any straw to try to cause problems. What idiots.
Mary I don’t post under my real name because our business was threatened by you own BJ and WSClark. Such heros you have there.
Hey, okobserver,
When is the Tiahrt meetup you are reffering to?
Hank – WAY off topic – how was woofstock. Too bad I had to work …
Okob – also off topic. There is a firefighters parade this Sat on Broadway at the Museum. Take the grandkids!
;)
McCain made a propaganda statement for the North Vietnamese. The vast majority of POWs didn’t do that.
Who’s a traitor?
okobserver
Posted October 7, 2008 at 10:31 am | Permalink
I don’t have private email addresses and so can’t go ‘off board’ as some here do. Those libs will grab at any straw to try to cause problems. What idiots
—
Why is going off board grabbing at straws to cause problems? If you don’t have an email address, how did you register to post on this blog? The definition of an idiot is in the eye of the beholder. Case in point, you think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president and many others don’t. You also think McCain has done nothing wrong. Again – idiot is in the eye of the beholder.
Mom just for you I will say this slowly. In order to set up a ‘con meetup’ off board and in private I would need email addresses for the cons on the board.
I was very upfront with what I posted. Nathan and I were talking and any other republican is more than welcome to come.
The left frequently says ‘check your email’ when they have private things to say.
Maybe you aren’t in the loop.
Hank he will be the speaker at the regular monthly meeting at the Wichita Area Realtors/Building on Main I think. It is on the 16th. Social hour at 6:30.
Hope to see you there.
Thanks Ben I will try to do that. Our youngest is building a house and this is taking up all of our spare time. Hope to finish this week.
Regular posted October 7, 2008 at 10:14 am
cosmos_originally posted
October 7, 2008 at 9:29 am
Whether Obama said that this was “all we’re doing” is debatable. He said that we need to have enough camel sex and sheep sodomy.”
————–
Thank you Regular, for your LIES, which accurately represent the Republican party, and “Kansas values”.
bth
Posted October 7, 2008 at 11:09 am | Permalink
Hank – WAY off topic – how was woofstock. Too bad I had to work …
__________________________________________
Hey Ben,
WoofStock was a very big success overall. I think they had record crowds. No word on the total raised, but it seems they did good.
My little contribution was borderline bust. I brought little nanny goats instead of sheep because I thought they could handle the stress better. They did. By 11:30 we had to quit letting people try herding because the little nannies were beating up their dogs! We still made almost $500 for the Humane Society though.
Next year sheep.
However, I enjoyed WoofStock a lot more this year than I ever have. After shutting down the instinct testing Sammy and I did demonstrations (goats won’t mess with Sammy!). In between demos I got to wander around and look at the other exhibits.
Hank hated to miss Woofstock. That house building thing again. My granddaughter I was going to bring told me her friend got a little dog paw tattoo on her face. Next year I told her she could get one.
Yes, we are at war with Terrorists.
However, one of Obama’s best friends, William Ayers, IS a TERRORIST!
McCain made a propaganda statement for the North Vietnamese. The vast majority of POWs didn’t do that.
Who’s a traitor?
XXX
You are dispicable.
The Communists knew, full well, who McCain was, and the status of McCain’s father, in the Navy.
Therefore, McCain received very harsh treatment.
You would be wetting your pants and crying “mommy” before you even felt ANY physical pain, in such a situation.
John Kerry gave propaganda support to the Communists, and John Kerry was NEVER tortured.
Compare what McCain said, after being tortured, to what John Kerry said, without even being captured!
Franklin posted October 7, 2008 at 11:56 am
“… William Ayers, IS a TERRORIST!”
——-
econ believes that the FBI has a warrant out to arrest Professor Ayers?
Link please, econ.
By the way, the BEST Saturday Night Live skit has now been censored by NBC.
Herbert and Marion Sandler helped to sink Wachovia. They sold a portfolio of WORTHLESS sub-prime loans to Wachovia.
The Sandlers also give, heavily, to Moveon.org, ACORN and Air America!
Once again, Democrat ties to the sub-prime mortgage mess are obvious for everyone to see.
SNL does a skit, showing a couple of people who had NO business, getting a loan, in a Congressional hearing.
SNL then brings in actors playing the Sandlers.
It was a great, honest, dead-on skit.
And, the Democrats have now FORCED SNL to take down the entire video, from their website!:
http://mashable.com/2008/10/06/snl-censorship/
Cosmos how dense are you? Ayers is an admitted terrorist. He told kids to go home and kill their parents. He said he didn’t do enough when his group bombed the pentagon, the capital building, the NY police station, etc… He said it not Franklin. You are truely a nitwit.
He got off on a technicallity.
Grow up.
Franklin that was really funny and so true. Wonder why the dims didn’t want that one left up for others to see.
That Tina Fey she is really funny and so educational. Lets have more of her.
No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen
By DINITIA SMITH
Published: September 11, 2001
”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970’s as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. The long curly locks in his Wanted poster are shorn, though he wears earrings. He still has tattooed on his neck the rainbow-and-lightning Weathermen logo that appeared on letters taking responsibility for bombings. And he still has the ebullient, ingratiating manner, the apparently intense interest in other people, that made him a charismatic figure in the radical student movement.
Now he has written a book, ”Fugitive Days” (Beacon Press, September). Mr. Ayers, who is 56, calls it a memoir, somewhat coyly perhaps, since he also says some of it is fiction. He writes that he participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, the Pentagon in 1972. But Mr. Ayers also seems to want to have it both ways, taking responsibility for daring acts in his youth, then deflecting it.
”Is this, then, the truth?,” he writes. ”Not exactly. Although it feels entirely honest to me.”
But why would someone want to read a memoir parts of which are admittedly not true? Mr. Ayers was asked.
”Obviously, the point is it’s a reflection on memory,” he answered. ”It’s true as I remember it.”
Mr. Ayers is probably safe from prosecution anyway. A spokeswoman for the Justice Department said there was a five-year statute of limitations on Federal crimes except in cases of murder or when a person has been indicted.
Mr. Ayers, who in 1970 was said to have summed up the Weatherman philosophy as: ”Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at,” is today distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago. And he says he doesn’t actually remember suggesting that rich people be killed or that people kill their parents, but ”it’s been quoted so many times I’m beginning to think I did,” he said. ”It was a joke about the distribution of wealth.”
He went underground in 1970, after his girlfriend, Diana Oughton, and two other people were killed when bombs they were making exploded in a Greenwich Village town house. With him in the Weather Underground was Bernardine Dohrn, who was put on the F.B.I.’s 10 Most Wanted List. J. Edgar Hoover called her ”the most dangerous woman in America” and ”la Pasionara of the Lunatic Left.” Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn later married.
In his book Mr. Ayers describes the Weathermen descending into a ”whirlpool of violence.”
”Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,” he writes. But then comes a disclaimer: ”Even though I didn’t actually bomb the Pentagon — we bombed it, in the sense that Weathermen organized it and claimed it.” He goes on to provide details about the manufacture of the bomb and how a woman he calls Anna placed the bomb in a restroom. No one was killed or injured, though damage was extensive.
Between 1970 and 1974 the Weathermen took responsibility for 12 bombings, Mr. Ayers writes, and also helped spring Timothy Leary (sentenced on marijuana charges) from jail.
Today, Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn, 59, who is director of the Legal Clinic’s Children and Family Justice Center of Northwestern University, seem like typical baby boomers, caring for aging parents, suffering the empty-nest syndrome. Their son, Malik, 21, is at the University of California, San Diego; Zayd, 24, teaches at Boston University. They have also brought up Chesa Boudin, 21, the son of David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin, who are serving prison terms for a 1981 robbery of a Brinks truck in Rockland County, N.Y., that left four people dead. Last month, Ms. Boudin’s application for parole was rejected.
So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.
”I don’t think you can understand a single thing we did without understanding the violence of the Vietnam War,” he said, and the fact that ”the enduring scar of racism was fully in flower.” Mr. Ayers pointed to Bob Kerrey, former Democratic Senator from Nebraska, who has admitted leading a raid in 1969 in which Vietnamese women and children were killed. ”He committed an act of terrorism,” Mr. Ayers said. ”I didn’t kill innocent people.”
Mr. Ayers has always been known as a ”rich kid radical.” His father, Thomas, now 86, was chairman and chief executive officer of Commonwealth Edison of Chicago, chairman of Northwestern University and of the Chicago Symphony. When someone mentions his father’s prominence, Mr. Ayers is quick to say that his father did not become wealthy until the son was a teenager. He says that he got some of his interest in social activism from his father. He notes that his father promoted racial equality in Chicago and was acceptable as a mediator to Mayor Richard Daley and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1966 when King marched in Cicero, Ill., to protest housing segregation.
All in all, Mr. Ayers had ”a golden childhood,” he said, though he did have a love affair with explosives. On July 4, he writes, ”my brothers and I loved everything about the wild displays of noise and color, the flares, the surprising candle bombs, but we trembled mostly for the Big Ones, the loud concussions.”
The love affair seems to have continued into adulthood. Even today, he finds ”a certain eloquence to bombs, a poetry and a pattern from a safe distance,” he writes.
He attended Lake Forest Academy in Lake Forest, Ill., then the University of Michigan but dropped out to join Students for a Democratic Society.
In 1967 he met Ms. Dohrn in Ann Arbor, Mich. She had a law degree from the University of Chicago and was a magnetic speaker who often wore thigh-high boots and miniskirts. In 1969, after the Manson family murders in Beverly Hills, Ms. Dohrn told an S.D.S. audience: ”Dig it! Manson killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach.”
In Chicago recently, Ms. Dohrn said of her remarks: ”It was a joke. We were mocking violence in America. Even in my most inflamed moment I never supported a racist mass murderer.”
Ms. Dohrn, Mr. Ayers and others eventually broke with S.D.S. to form the more radical Weathermen, and in 1969 Ms. Dohrn was arrested and charged with resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer during the Days of Rage protests against the trial of the Chicago Eight — antiwar militants accused of conspiracy to incite riots at the 1968 Democratic National Convention.
In 1970 came the town house explosion in Greenwich Village. Ms. Dohrn failed to appear in court in the Days of Rage case, and she and Mr. Ayers went underground, though there were no charges against Mr. Ayers. Later that spring the couple were indicted along with others in Federal Court for crossing state lines to incite a riot during the Days of Rage, and following that for ”conspiracy to bomb police stations and government buildings.” Those charges were dropped in 1974 because of prosecutorial misconduct, including illegal surveillance.
During his fugitive years, Mr. Ayers said, he lived in 15 states, taking names of dead babies in cemeteries who were born in the same year as he. He describes the typical safe house: there were usually books by Malcolm X and Ho Chi Minh, and Che Guevara’s picture in the bedroom; fermented Vietnamese fish sauce in the refrigerator, and live sourdough starter donated by a Native American that was reputed to have passed from hand to hand over a century.
He also writes about the Weathermen’s sexual experimentation as they tried to ‘’smash monogamy.” The Weathermen were ”an army of lovers,” he says, and describes having had different sexual partners, including his best male friend.
”Fugitive Days” does have moments of self-mockery, for instance when Mr. Ayers describes watching ”Underground,” Emile De Antonio’s 1976 documentary about the Weathermen. He was ”embarrassed by the arrogance, the solipsism, the absolute certainty that we and we alone knew the way,” he writes. ”The rigidity and the narcissism.”
In the mid-1970’s the Weathermen began quarreling. One faction, including Ms. Boudin, wanted to join the Black Liberation Army. Others, including Ms. Dohrn and Mr. Ayers, favored surrendering. Ms. Boudin and Ms. Dohrn had had an intense friendship but broke apart. Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn were purged from the group.
Ms. Dohrn and Mr. Ayers had a son, Zayd, in 1977. After the birth of Malik, in 1980, they decided to surface. Ms. Dohrn pleaded guilty to the original Days of Rage charge, received three years probation and was fined $1,500. The Federal charges against Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn had already been dropped.
Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn tried to persuade Ms. Boudin to surrender because she was pregnant. But she refused, and went on to participate in the Brink’s robbery. When she was arrested, Ms. Dohrn and Mr. Ayers volunteered to care for Chesa, then 14 months old, and became his legal guardians.
A few months later Ms. Dohrn was called to testify about the robbery. Ms. Dohrn had not seen Ms. Boudin for a year, she said, and knew nothing of it. Ms. Dohrn was asked to give a handwriting sample, and refused, she said, because the F.B.I. already had one in its possession. ”I felt grand juries were illegal and coercive,” she said. For refusing to testify, she was jailed for seven months, and she and Mr. Ayers married during a furlough.
Once again, Chesa was without a mother. ”It was one of the hardest things I did,” said Ms. Dohrn of going to jail.
In the interview, Mr. Ayers called Chesa ”a very damaged kid.” ”He had real serious emotional problems,” he said. But after extensive therapy, ”became a brilliant and wonderful human being.” .
After the couple surfaced, Ms. Dohrn tried to practice law, taking the bar exam in New York. But she was turned down by the Bar Association’s character committee because of her political activities.
Ms. Dohrn said she was aware of the contradictions between her radical past and the comforts of her present existence. ”This is where we raised our kids and are taking care of our aging parents,” she said. ”We could live much more simply, and well we might.”
And as for settling into marriage after efforts to smash monogamy, Ms. Dohrn said, ”You’re always trying to balance your understanding of who you are and what you need, and your longing and imaginings of freedom.”
”Happily for me, Billy keeps me laughing, he keeps me growing,” she said.
Mr. Ayers said he had some of the same conflicts about marriage. ”We have to learn how to be committed,” he said, ”and hold out the possibility of endless reinventions.”
As Mr. Ayers mellows into middle age, he finds himself thinking about truth and reconciliation, he said. He would like to see a Truth and Reconciliation Commission about Vietnam, he said, like South Africa’s. He can imagine Mr. Kerrey and Ms. Boudin taking part.
And if there were another Vietnam, he is asked, would he participate again in the Weathermen bombings?
By way of an answer, Mr. Ayers quoted from ”The Cure at Troy,” Seamus Heaney’s retelling of Sophocles’ ”Philoctetes:” ” ‘Human beings suffer,/ They torture one another./ They get hurt and get hard.’ ”
He continued to recite:
History says, Don’t hope
On this side of the grave.
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed-for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
Thinking back on his life , Mr. Ayers said, ”I was a child of privilege and I woke up to a world on fire. And hope and history rhymed.”
Talking about Petraeus does nothing for McCain.
Republicans have broken the economy. McCain can’t run away from what his party has done.
HLP
Great post.
One point:
The terrorist, William Ayers, was interviewed by the New York Times and bragged about blowing up as many as 30 buildings.
The story, in the New York Times, was burned by the 9-11 terrorists, when they crashed into the Twin Towers!
Thats right! William Ayers had the terrible timing of bragging about his own terrorism on the day the 9-11 attack!
Democrats demanded “affirmative action mortgages”
Sub prime loans now have us in deep trouble.
Barney Franks boyfriend worked for Fannie Mae.
Obama received more campaign contributions, from the mortgage industry, than any other politician in history.
Even former President Bill Clinton says that the Democrats were wrong to resist Republican efforts to regulate Fannie and Freddie.
The mortgage mess is a DEMOCRAT scandal.
BlueJay
Posted October 7, 2008 at 12:25 pm | Permalink
Talking about Petraeus does nothing for McCain.
Republicans have broken the economy. McCain can’t run away from what his party has done
———————
BJ only idiots still believe this fairy tale. The smart ones know what happened to the economy. For the clueless like you I have posted on the open thread links showing even the dims among us what happened. The MSM has finally decided that they are looking pretty stupid and their creds have been challenged so we are starting to get some real news.
Check it out!
Based on his posts here, “Franklin” is hardly in a position of superior judgment on political extremism!
Not gonna fly cons.
By a margin of two to one, Americans KNOW that it is Republicans made this financial mess. I hardly think calling a majority of Americans stupid is useful political rhetoric.
But hey? Who am I to keep the cons from their continued march OUT of power?
okobserver,
Do you have problems understanding grammar?
The word “is” = present tense.
If Professor Ayers “is” a terrorist as econ claims, then the FBI should arrest him.
Ayers “was” a terrorist. . . if you ignore the fact that buildings don’t feel emotions, and can’t be “terrorized”.
On the issue of using Patraeus and/or the military for political gain. Has anyone seen this add that Roberts is running using the wounded veteran. I’m curious to hear opinions as to whether Roberts is going overboard, whether he is using a wounded veteran to further himself politically. Or on the other hand, is this what we need to hear from our politicians?
http://billayers.wordpress.com/biography-history/
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Once a terorist?
Well, if he apologized and changed his ways?
Ayers did NOT apologize, he bragged about his terrorism and said that he should have blown up MORE buildings.
Ayers is a terrorist.
BJ
If CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS and the rest of the media would tell the truth about the mortgage mess, the public would turn, very quickly, against the Democrats.
Your use of opinion polling is ignorant in the extreme.
Truth is NOT subject to majority vote.
Blow up buildings.
Get away with it due to FBI misconduct.
Brag about blowing up buildings, in a book that makes money.
I am pretty sure that Ayers will NEVER try to sue, for libel or slander.
Ayers is a terrorist.
Truth is an absolute defense.
Has no one here never sat on a board?
People disagree, even if they sit on the same board; at church, for charities, in business… all the time.
“Sitting on the same board with…” is about as lame a stretch for this guilt by association smear.
Does anyone have any solid evidence of Obama ever endorsing Ayers’ tactics or positions?
The Faux Noise Channel had some guy on back in August who claimed he’d read the minutes of the board meetings of the organizations involved. Nothing has come out that A) Ayers and Obama ever agreed on anything or B) that they happen to live in the same neighborhood near their jobs at the University of Chicago.
By CON logic, that makes everyone in Park City a serial killer.
By CON logic, every Lutheran is a serial killer.
By CON logic, every Cub Scout leader is a serial killer.
Then again, CON logic is an oxymoron, with the empahis on the final two syllables.
Ayers “was” a terrorist. . . if you ignore the fact that buildings don’t feel emotions, and can’t be “terrorized”.
—————-
Interesting. Cosmos is defending Bill Ayers. He didn’t kill anyone so he isn’t a terrorist.
Cosmos needs to stick to cutting pasting about AGW.
Just heard a pretty good one on the Limbaugh show:
What do Osama Bin Laden and Barrack Obama have in common?
They both personally know people who bombed the Pentagon.
econ,
Why should someone apologize for trying to stop the atrocities of the Vietnam war?
okobserver
Posted October 7, 2008 at 11:47 am | Permalink
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
For anyone who cares this is a very unbiased picture of what happened with Glass-Steagal was repealed.
It also shows a good background of how we got to where we are today.
————–
Just for BJ because I know he won’t work for the man and is too lazy to look for himself.
For the rational folks, reading this Blog, Cosmos, above, has just admitted that he, a Democrat activist, sees NOTHING wrong with terrorism!
Franklin
Posted October 7, 2008 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
XXX
You are dispicable.
The Communists knew, full well, who McCain was, and the status of McCain’s father, in the Navy.
Therefore, McCain received very harsh treatment.
_______________________________________________
Lots of POWs recieved very harsh treatment and didn’t make propaganda statements for the enemy. But they were BRAVE men.
______________________________________________
You would be wetting your pants and crying “mommy” before you even felt ANY physical pain, in such a situation.
________________________________________________
You know that how? Do you want to take this to a personal level?
________________________________________________
John Kerry gave propaganda support to the Communists, and John Kerry was NEVER tortured.
________________________________________________
Is John Kerry running for president?
OK
We could have survived repeal of Glass-Steagal, on its own (Which was vote for by Biden and signed by Bill Clinton)
However, repeal of Glass-Steagal, ON TOP of the lberal “Community Reinvestment Act”, which FORCED sub-prime mortgages on lenders — was a disaster.
Nothing McCain does to raise questions about Obama or remind us of his past as a POW, no amount of reiterating his political and military background, even using the names of all military officers will be enough. It won’t speak to anyone but “the base,” and he has those votes.
In order to get other votes he will need a detailed plan of how to get us out of this mess. How will spending be cut (has to be more than talking of earmarks)? How will jobs be created? What is the proper amount of control and regulation over financial institutions? How will we achieve success in two wars? Is it true he plans to cut Medicare benefits?
He could bring his campaign back from the dead once again if he manages to speak to voters outside his base with details that are reassuring. He is too far down to depend on talking points and dirty politics. It won’t be enough.
He has a higher bar at this point than Obama. The onus of his first presidential choice of running mate, his admission that he has much to learn about economics, the burden of voting with bush 90% of the time contribute to his more difficult road.
cosmos_originally
Posted October 7, 2008 at 12:34 pm | Permalink
okobserver,
Do you have problems understanding grammar?
The word “is” = present tense.
If Professor Ayers “is” a terrorist as econ claims, then the FBI should arrest him.
Ayers “was” a terrorist. . . if you ignore the fact that buildings don’t feel emotions, and can’t be “terrorized”.
——————–
Cosmos what part of unrepentant, doesn’t regret, didn’t do enough, still encourages kids in rebelling against the establishment. The man is still a terrorists just inactive for the moment as far as we know.
I think he would do it again in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose.
As far as buildings being terrorized – the policemen that were injured, the one who lost his hearing – well these were people who were terrorized by Ayers and his group.
Dim really does fit the left.
So no I don’t have problems with grammar but you seem to have a problem with reasoning comprehension.
outlander posted October 7, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“Interesting. Cosmos is defending Bill Ayers. He didn’t kill anyone so he isn’t a terrorist.”
———-
That’s not what I said. “Terrorism” is causing “terror”. Empty buildings don’t feel “terror”.
How many ‘terrorist’ set out to blow up empty buildings, and give warnings so the buildings can be cleared?
Besides if he was a terrrorist, and if Obama was a conspirator, they’d both be in GITMO getting waterboarded.
I bet if the waterboarded ayers and Obama, they’d both sign confessions.
Or, like mccain, just break both their arms, and give medical attention after you spill your guts.
Linda,
I tend to agree that Sen. McCain needs to provide positive information on matters economic rather than negative talking points only to help his (by the polls) foundering campaign. I would also recommend that Sen. Obama do the same, rather than speaking in negatives as well.
Hope y’all enjoy the debate tonight. I’ll not see it, as my time will be otherwise occupied.
Monday, October 06, 2008
The Obama Ayers Relationship
The Relationship Between Barack Obama And Bill Ayers Is Much More Extensive Than Obama’s Campaign Is Willing To Admit
Obama’s Top Campaign Staff Have Attempted To Downplay The Relationship Between Obama And Bill Ayers:
Obama Spokesman Robert Gibbs Said That Obama And Ayers Weren’t Close And That Obama Was Only 8 Years Old When Ayers Was Bombing Buildings. Robert Gibbs: “If you read the article … it says these two men weren’t close, this man isn’t involved in our campaign. Bill Ayers is somebody that Barack Obama said his actions were despicable and these happened when Barack Obama was 8 years old.” (FOX News’ “FOX & Friends,” 10/6/08)
Gibbs Has Also Limited The Relationship Between Obama And Ayers To Serving On Two Boards Together. John Roberts: “Barack Obama knew Bill Ayers and had contact with him between 1995 and 2005. Exactly what was the nature of the relationship?” Robert Gibbs: “Well, John, as The New York Times reported this weekend, they served on two boards together during that time period.” (CNN’s “American Morning,” 10/6/08)
Even Obama Has Previously Referred To Ayers As “A Guy Who Lives In My Neighborhood” And Not Someone He Exchanges Ideas With “On A Regular Basis.” Obama: “George, but this is an example of what I’m talking about. This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who’s a professor of English in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He’s not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn’t make much sense, George.” (Sen. Barack Obama, ABC Democrat Candidates Presidential Debate, Philadelphia, PA, 4/16/08)
But Obama’s Connections With Bill Ayers Are Much More Extensive Than He Or His Campaign Staff Is Willing To Admit:
In 1995, During Obama’s First State Senate Campaign, William Ayers And Wife Bernadine Dohrn Hosted A Meeting Of Chicago Liberals At Their Home For Obama, Which One Attendee Said Was Aimed At “Launching Him.” “In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district’s influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While Ayers and Dohrn may be thought of in Hyde Park as local activists, they’re better known nationally as two of the most notorious — and unrepentant — figures from the violent fringe of the 1960s anti-war movement. … ‘I can remember being one of a small group of people who came to Bill Ayers’ house to learn that Alice Palmer was stepping down from the senate and running for Congress,’ said Dr. Quentin Young, a prominent Chicago physician and advocate for single-payer health care, of the info rmal gathering at the home of Ayers and his wife, Dohrn. ‘[Palmer] identified [Obama] as her successor.’ … Dr. Young and another guest, Maria Warren, described it similarly: as an introduction to Hyde Park liberals of the handpicked successor to Palmer, a well-regarded figure on the left. ‘When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the living room of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn,’ Warren wrote on her blog in 2005. ‘They were launching him — introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.’” (Ben Smith, “Obama Once Visited ’60s Radicals,” The Politico, 1/22/08)
From March Of 1995 Until September Of 1997, Obama And Ayers Attended At Least Seven Meetings Together Relating To The Chicago Annenberg Challenge. (Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Board Of Directors Meeting, Minutes Of The Board, 3/15/95, 3/31/95, 4/13/95, 6/5/95, 9/30/97; National Annenberg Challenge Evaluation Meeting, List Of Participants, 5/24/95; Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Chicago School Reform Collaborative Meeting, Minutes, 10/23/96)
NOTE: Bill Ayers Was Asked To Help Obama Formulate The Chicago Annenberg Challenge By-Laws. (Chicago Annenberg Challenge Board Of Directors Minutes, 3/15/95)
In 1997, Obama Praised Ayers’ Book On The Juvenile Justice System. “The two men were involved in efforts to reform the city’s education system. They appeared together on academic panels, including one organized by Michelle Obama to discuss the juvenile justice system, an area of mutual concern. Mr. Ayers’s book on the subject won a rave review in The Chicago Tribune by Mr. Obama, who called it ‘a searing and timely account.’” (Jo Becker and Christopher Drew, “Pragmatic Politics, Forged On The South Side,” The New York Times, 5/11/08)
Obama On William Ayers’ “A Kind And Just Parent: The Children Of Juvenile Court”: “A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair.” (Chicago Tribune, 12/21/97)
“[Obama And Ayers] Have Also Appeared Jointly On Two Academic Panels, One In 1997 And Another In 2001.” (Russell Berman, “Obama’s Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny,” The New York Sun, 2/19/08)
From 1999 To 2002, Obama Served With Ayers On The Board Of Directors For Woods Fund Of Chicago. “[Ayers] served with [Obama] from 1999 to 2002 on the board of the Woods Fund, an anti-poverty group.” (Timothy J. Burger, “Obama’s Chicago Ties Might Fuel ‘Republican Attack Machine’,” Bloomberg, 2/15/08)
During The Time Obama And Ayers Served Together On The Woods Fund, Ayers Was Quoted Saying “I Don’t Regret Setting Bombs … I Feel We Didn’t Do Enough.” “‘I don’t regret setting bombs,’ Bill Ayers said. ‘I feel we didn’t do enough.’ Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970’s as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago.” (Dinitia Smith, “No Regrets For A Love Of Explosives,” The New York Times, 9/11/01)
NOTE: Obama, Born August 14th, 1961, Was 40 Years Old When Ayers Was Quoted. (Obama For America Website, http://www.barackobama.com, Accessed 10/6/08; Dinitia Smith, “No Regrets For A Love Of Explosives,” The New York Times, 9/11/01)
While Obama And Ayers Were Serving On The Woods Fund Together, Ayers Posed Standing On An American Flag For An Article In Chicago Magazine Entitled “No Regrets.” (Marcia Froelke Coburn, “No Regrets,” Chicago Magazine, 8/01)
Obama And Ayers Are Neighbors In Chicago’s Hyde Park Neighborhood. “Twenty-six years later, at a lunchtime meeting about school reform in a Chicago skyscraper, Barack Obama met Mr. Ayers, by then an education professor. Their paths have crossed sporadically since then, at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office, on the schools project and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as Hyde Park neighbors.” (Scott Shane, “Obama And ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths,” The New York Times, 10/4/08)
Obama Spokesman Ben LaBolt Told The New York Times That Last Year Obama And Ayers “Bumped Into Each Other On The Street In Hyde Park.” “[Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt] said they have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Mr. Obama began serving in the United States Senate in January 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they bumped into each other on the street in Hyde Park.” (Scott Shane, “Obama And ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths,” The New York Times, 10/4/08)
Neighbors Have Said “It’s Only Natural” That Obama Would Know Ayers, Who Often Opens His Home For Gatherings, As Obama And His Wife “Are A Part Of Our Neighborhood And Part Of Our Social Circle.” “Since coming out of hiding in 1980, the couple have raised three boys in Chicago and become part of the fabric of their liberal South Side neighborhood. Neighbors said it’s only natural that Obama would know Ayers and Dohrn, who often open their homes for gatherings filled with lively discussions about politics, arts and social issues. Obama and his wife ‘are part of our neighborhood and part of our social circle,’ said Elizabeth Chandler, a neighbor of Ayers’.” (Trevor Jensen, Robert Mitchum and Mary Owen, “Bill Ayers’ Turbulent Past Contrasts With Quiet Academ ic Life,” Chicago Tribune, 4/17/08)
Ayers’ Organization, The Weather Underground, Was A “Violent Left-Wing Activist Group”:
“William Ayers … [Was] A Founding Member Of The Group That Bombed The U.S. Capitol And The Pentagon During The 1970s.” (Russell Berman, “Obama’s Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny,” The New York Sun, 2/19/08)
Ayers’ Group, The Weather Underground, Is A “Violent Left-Wing Activist Group.” “Senator Obama’s ties to a former leader of the violent left-wing activist group the Weather Underground are drawing new scrutiny as he battles Senator Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination.” (Russell Berman, “Obama’s Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny,” The New York Sun, 2/19/08)
The Weather Underground Produced A Manual Which Begins, “We Are A Guerrilla Organization. We Are Communist Women And Men, Underground In The United States For More Than Four Years.” “The coalition was said to be a violence-prone faction inspired by the Weather Underground’s ”Prairie Fire,” a guerrilla warfare manual published in 1974. The manual begins, ‘We are a guerrilla organization. We are Communist women and men, underground in the United States for more than four years.’” (Paul L. Montgomery, “2 Women In Brink’s Case Identified With Weathermen From Start In ‘69,” The New York Times, 10/ 22/81)
8 PM tonight?
If you kill someone, you are, FOREVER, a MURDERER.
IF you are a terrorist, an admitted terrorist, and never apologize for being a terrorist, you are STILL a terrorist.
Franklin posted October 7, 2008 at 12:55 pm
“For the rational folks, reading this Blog, Cosmos, above, has just admitted that he, a Democrat activist, sees NOTHING wrong with terrorism!”
———-
econ, a Republican shill, has just admitted that he sees NOTHING wrong with the Vietnam War!
I don’t believe that what the Weathermen did was “right”, anymore than the Vietnam War was “right”.
lindainks55
Posted October 7, 2008 at 12:58 pm | Permalink
In order to get other votes he will need a detailed plan of how to get us out of this mess. How will spending be cut (has to be more than talking of earmarks)? How will jobs be created? What is the proper amount of control and regulation over financial institutions? How will we achieve success in two wars? Is it true he plans to cut Medicare benefits?
——————–
Linda I know you don’t answer my post and that is fine but why don’t you enlighten the rest of the blog with the answers to these points as relates to your candidate.
If you read the post I inserted above you will get an idea of the real problem and to lay this on the door of Bush is ridiculous. The repubs share in the blame in that they didn’t go public when they knew what was happening years ago. Even Bill Clinton knows where the blames lies. I heard this in an interview last week when he laid it out.
Just saying ‘I have a plan’ like Obama does isn’t going to cut it.
lies – lays
#
cosmos_originally
Posted October 7, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
outlander posted October 7, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“Interesting. Cosmos is defending Bill Ayers. He didn’t kill anyone so he isn’t a terrorist.”
———-
That’s not what I said. “Terrorism” is causing “terror”. Empty buildings don’t feel “terror”.
————————————-
That is so lame Cosmos. Say your work place is fired bombed when you aren’t there. Wouldn’t feel a bit of fear, hmmm…?
That dog won’t hunt.
Libs
The Weather Underground DID kill people!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxoiZdBSi-g&eurl=http://backyardconservative.blogspot.com/search?q=wright
‘Thirty Lies Refuted About Ayers And Obama‘
‘Thirty Lies Refuted About Ayers And Obama‘
‘Thirty Lies Refuted About Ayers And Obama‘
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-k-wilson/30-lies-refuted-about-aye_b_132109.html
Yes, Ben, 8 p.m. our time.
I should have added how much I desire Senator Obama to remain positive and talk about specifics on plans and strategies. I want both of them to keep their words of this being a more civil campaign! I think most of us do! I remember the “reaction graph” used by some channels at debates always seemed to take a dip downward when negativism was introduced.
avtolle, it was easy! You steered me in the right direction and I didn’t have to go beyond 6.
Cosmos – Are policemen people?
cosmos
Actually, I think the Vietnam War, first entered into by Democrats JFK and LBJ, was a noble effort.
Far more died, when we pulled out of Vietnam, than had died during our years of involvement, there.
The communists were brutal tyrants.
However, regardless of my views, or YOUR views, terrorism against your own country is NOT acceptable behavior.
Just because Ayers disagreed with the war did NOT give Ayers the right to blow up people and buildings.
“Linda I know you don’t answer my post and that is fine but why don’t you enlighten the rest of the blog with the answers to these points as relates to your candidate.” — okobserver
——-
Senator Obama has laid out specific plans at his website. Those who choose to read them will.
Senator Obama has laid out specific plans at his website. Those who choose to read them will.
=======
But Linda is still unsure as to what the plans actually are.
The funny response from the Dems?
That Ayers and Obama’s kids “went to the same school” —
Only problem is that they never went to the same school at the same time. They are about 20 years apart, in age!
Good to know, Linda, that 6th floor was where to go.
outlander posted October 7, 2008 at 1:06 pm
That is so lame Cosmos. Say your work place is fired bombed when you aren’t there. Wouldn’t feel a bit of fear, hmmm…?
————–
Absolutely none, if I understood that the bombing was intentionally done when the building was vacant.
Terrorist William Ayers was Obama’s BOSS!
Terrorist William Ayers stood on an American Flag to promote his own book, while Obama still worked for Ayers!
Anti,
I have three personal rules about blogging. Rule #3 pertains to your post of 1:11.
3. Recognize a pissing contest as quickly as possible.
cosmos
Some members of the Weather Underground died, when their own bombs blew them up, by accident.
Also, the Weather Underground DID kill police!
I wonder if Cosmos would support blowing up a coal fire plant in the name of environmentalism? I mean, after all, it may be that CO2 is contributing to global warming. Let’s ask him.
Cosmos, would you?
lindainks55
Posted October 7, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
Anti,
I have three personal rules about blogging. Rule #3 pertains to your post of 1:11.
3. Recognize a pissing contest as quickly as possible.
=======
I feel no need to piss, and less need for a contest.
Rule #1 for an Obama supporter:
Be blind and swoon when nothing is said so well.
“Recognize a pissing contest as quickly as possible.”
It’s all McCain, Palin, and the Republicans have left.
No hope.
No help.
No plans.
Only fear filled cries from the fetal position.
Pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
“The Fund will have a peer-review selection and award process based on the Michigan 21st Century Jobs Fund, a state-level initiative that has awarded over $125 million to Michigan businesses with the most innovative proposals to create new products and new jobs in the state.”
“Obama and Biden will invest $150 billion over 10 years to advance the next generation of biofuels and fuel infrastructure, accelerate the commercialization of plug-in hybrids, promote development of commercial scale renewable energy, invest in low emissions coal plants, and begin transition to a new digital electricity grid. The plan will also invest in America’s highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world.”
“The Obama-Biden plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs and direct these programs to incorporate green technologies training, such as advanced manufacturing and weatherization training, into their efforts to help Americans find and retain stable, high-paying jobs.”
“This independent entity will be directed to invest in our nation’s most challenging transportation infrastructure needs. The Bank will receive an infusion of federal money, $60 billion over 10 years, to provide financing to transportation infrastructure projects across the nation.”
I could have pasted all day. This is Obama’s plan. Throw money at it and it will go away. This isn’t a plan – it is a path to disaster. There isn’t enough money to pay for even a portion of this. The government can’t be in the job creation market. The only way they could do this is to raise taxes on everyone. Add onto this the health care plan he has and ‘where will all of this money come from?.’
Small business, the real creaters of 85% of private sector jobs, will go under with the increased taxes and cost they will incur.
Linda I’m sorry if I don’t see this as a plan. Or at least not a plan to save our nations economy.
econ,
Are you claiming that the Weather Underground intentionally killed their own members, and the police?
Eric Randolph. Shelly Shannon. Timothy McVeigh.
Where’s the outrage, CONs?
“Franklin” is obviously a terrorist.
“parkay” is obviously a terrorist.
You know BJ if you would ever contribute something constructive to the blog then someone might involve you in an intelligent conversation. You are like a middle schooler with your baseless taunts – I can picture you running around your living room with your tongue out and your fingers in your ears going ‘yah,yah,yah’. Man you are truely pathetic.
Are you claiming that the Weather Underground intentionally killed their own members, and the police?
———
Cosmos, do you know the risk and repercussions of setting off explosives large enough to damage a building? Or are you just ignorant?
Monkey none of these will be in a position to receive a personal invitation to the White House.
Cosmos I am saying they weren’t the sharpest pencils in the box or they wouldn’t have been doing what they were doing. But yes I am sure they realized after the first big bang that these were powerful things they were building.
And Monkey why are Franklin and Parkay terrorists?
You’re who someone calls “grandma” okobserver?
Poor kids.
See? I can come down to your level and call names too. Wheee!
Ayer’s caused fatalities=0
Mccain caused fatalities=100+
Mccain caused fatalities (pilots shot down after his collaboration)= significant, but undetermined
yes
The Weather Underground intentionally killed police.
Bloggers, Cosmos defends terrorism!
Hey cosmos?
Don’t explosives generate carbon dioxide?
This may not bode well for John Mccain, he may have to declare another state of emergency and bow out of the debate:
“There Will Be Followups: Ben Smith reports that while McCain and Obama agreed not to include follow-up questions in tonight’s debate, moderator Tom Brokaw wasn’t party to the deal, and hasn’t agreed to it.
At least six million questions have been submitted online, the New York Times finds. There will only be time for 15 to 20.
Obama Raises Expectations, Questions McCain’s Temper: National Press Secretary Bill Burton releases a memo touting John McCain’s experience with the town hall format, while also wondering if McCain will “continue his refusal to even look at Obama on stage — like in their first debate.” The memo also suggests that McCain will “launch his nastiest attacks” yet at tonight’s debate.
BJ this wasn’t my post. What does it tell you about the intellect of the person who wrote it.
——————
BlueJay
Posted October 7, 2008 at 1:19 pm | Permalink
“Recognize a pissing contest as quickly as possible.”
It’s all McCain, Palin, and the Republicans have left.
No hope.
No help.
No plans.
Only fear filled cries from the fetal position.
Pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
————————
Pathetic and hilarious at the same time. Oh that was what you said. How appropriate though.
Linda
“Don’t rock no boats, don’t back no losers”
This is a dirty Chicago political expression.
Obama has NEVER done anything but SUPPORT the corrupt Daily Machine, in Chicago.
Obama has NEVER done anything but SUPPORT the corrupt Stroger Machine, in Cook County.
Obama has NEVER done anything but support the Chicago Teachers Union, 25% of which are paid over $100,000.00 a year, but who spend less time in the classroom that teachers anywhere else in the country. Chicago has a horrible drop out rate.
Chicago has a horrible high school homicide rate.
In short, any “plan” that Obama brings up is pure BS, since Obama will NEVER stand up against a Democrat or Liberal special interest group.
In Obama’s OWN book, Obama explains that his “base” the Black churches of Chicago, contain too many public school teachers and principals, and that he could never turn against that group.
Besides, since the Chicago teachers make so much, they can afford to send their kids to PRIVATE school, anyway!
Phantom
Ayers organization, funded and controlled by Ayers and his wife, killed POLICE!
“Franklin
Posted October 7, 2008 at 1:09 pm | Permalink
cosmos
Actually, I think the Vietnam War, first entered into by Democrats JFK and LBJ, was a noble effort.
Far more died, when we pulled out of Vietnam, than had died during our years of involvement, there.”
Paul – I had several family members over there and they all agree that you are wrong on all counts. And there is no evidence to support your claim of millions dead AFTER the fall of Saigon.
You know Phantom it is time for the campaign to get serious. If that means it has to be down and dirty then so be it. If McCain can’t control his temper we need to see it. If Obama is clueless when asked questions that he doesn’t have a teleprompter to give him the answers then we need to know this.
The town hall format is much more telling of the man that the more formal Lincoln/Douglas Debate styles.
The economy is important and will of course be the most discussed part of the debate but there will be many things that will be handled by our next prez in the 4 years of their term. We need to know the whole man and not just those parts they choose to reveal to us.
“What does it tell you about the intellect of the person who wrote it.”
That I very concisely conveyed the truth so effectively to a bitterly desperate woman that she was compelled to reaction post?
The North Vietnamese were BRUTAL to the South.
Remember the boat people?
Remember Poll Pot in Cambodia?
Besides, no matter what your views, you do not have the right to kill police and blow up buildings, like Ayers and the Weather Underground did!
BJ wax on so eloquently in your own estimation. I have always said you are you own biggest admirer.
I have no reason to be bitter. I have a beautiful life, terrific kids, great grandkids and a husband I love.
What have you got going for you?
econ,
Since you insist that Professor Ayers “is” a terrorist, what do you consider a suitable punishment?
A few years, or decades in prison? Life in prison?
Isolation from society on a remote island?
How about identifying EVERYONE who has had contact with him, and attack them — like YOU attack Obama for his occasional past contacts?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Aftermath
Hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese officials, particularly ARVN officers, were imprisoned in reeducation camps after the Communist takeover.[citation needed] Tens of thousands died and many fled the country after being released. Up to two million civilians left the country, and as many as half of these boat people perished at sea.[citation needed]
On July 2, 1976, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam was declared. After repeated border clashes in 1978, Vietnam invaded Democratic Kampuchea (Cambodia) and ousted the Khmer Rouge. As many as two million died during the Khmer Rouge genocide.
Vietnam began to repress its ethnic Chinese minority. Thousands fled and the exodus of the boat people began. In 1979, China invaded Vietnam and the two countries fought a brief border war, known as the Third Indochina War or the Sino-Vietnamese War.
“What have you got going for you?”
An election for starters!
I’m also “blessed” with a rather cranky old woman who has SUCH a great life that she follows me all over the blog biting my ankles while she makes money off the labor of prisoners she exploits.
That’s when I’m here, which is less often than you.
Ben I come from the generation where I saw friends and relatives go into this war. Many didn’t come back. My husband and I rented our first house after marrying from a couple who lost their only son in that war.
I have two brother-in-laws who have purple hearts from that war. One still carries the schrapnel in his leg.
I also met a young man who worked on our mainframe computer where I worked who had escaped from Viet Nam after we pulled out. He was a jet pilot and his wife was a doctor. It was a harrowing story. He lost many family members to the communists regiem that took over.
Certainly in the 60s I looked at it as a war we couldn’t win and shouldn’t have got involved in. After listening to Hai I wasn’t so sure. Regardless Ayers had no right to destroy public buildings. None.
Free Republic saved the SNL video about Herbert and Marion Sandler, the couple who supported ACORN, Moveon.org, Air America and ruined Wachovia!:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2099647/posts
You have to click on the link and download it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
BJ I follow you nowhere. I blog just as you do. Who are you following. If you want to go to a private blog. Feel free to go. As far as how I make my money:
I make money from a business that furnishes well paid jobs with good benefits to 35 – 40 people. Some of them are connected to the community corrections program. We believe in giving second chances. You don’t have to recognize that because your middle school mind hasn’t advanced that far. Your loss.
So continue to let others know what a truly small ‘man’ you really are. Post on BJ.
Hmm
Hearing some rumblings about McCain being connected to Irancontra. Fatmouth was saying something about it.
McCain may live to regret going nasty. HIS closet is pretty deep.
cosmos
Ayers and Obama are joined at the hip.
They are tight.
Ayers helped make Obama’s political career possible.
Ayers was Obama’s boss.
Ah geez, “Franklin” –
You’ll say anything, won’t you?
Utterly amazing.
“Obama has NEVER done anything but SUPPORT the corrupt Daily Machine, in Chicago.”
I like the addition of all-caps. Getting a little frenzied, huh, “Franklin?”
Remember back when you “corrupt Chicago politician” meme centered around Obama’s lawsuits to remove candidates from the State Senate ballot? Remember how it was shot down when it was revealed the Daley Machine put those candidates on the ballot to prevent Obama’s election to the Illinois State Senate?
Of course you do.
But don’t let the truth get in the way of zing-song lines like “Chicago politician” or “machine politics” or “terr’ist terr’ist terr’ist.”
And all your intellectual masturbation is focused on Kansans! Talk about preaching to the choir.
I don’t believe you intend to be a troll, but here I am flopping around in the hold of the boat. You’re almost as bad as “Nathaniel” who just compels us to slow down and gawk as with a horrific auto crash on the freeway.
We know McCain
We DONT know Obama.
Negative ads will hurt Obama far more than McCain.
Political facts of life, folks.
econ,
Since Professor Ayers is very unlikely to be sentenced for his past activities, this is probably the only way that you can punish him.
Identify EVERYONE who has had contact with him, and attack them — like YOU attack Obama for his occasional past contacts!
You’ve got a lot of work to do econ, because Professor Ayers has had contacts with many people during the last few decades.
There needs to be an immediate boycott of the college Ayers teaches at, has one been called yet?
YIKES!
McCain IS linked to Irancontra.
AND now comes word Sarah Palin ginned up an angry crowd of cons and got them to turn on reporters?
The wheels are off the bus and the bus is off the ROAD with the cons in their meltdown!
I heard the ditto heads booing at one of her rallies when she said MSM.
Those people could very well turn violent as the have such a strong herd instinct.
Monkey
You have your facts and your history wrong.
The truth is, Alice Palmer, the extreme liberal who wrote fondly of the Soviet Union, recruited Obama to fill her seat. Then, when Jessie Jackson Jr. entered the race that Palmer wanted to enter, Palmer wanted her old seat back, and went to Obama and told him so.
Obama refused to back out.
So, Palmer and others ran for that state Senate Seat, against Obama.
Obama, through his attorneys, had the petitions for each of the other candidates challenged.
(A rather odd, hypocritical thing for an ACORN thug to do, huh? Since ACORN typically throws a fit if any minority voter is challenged, in a general election?)
Obama then gained his first State Senate race, completely UNOPPOSED!
So, since NOBODY in the Daley machine, or anywhere else, could have predicted all of these things exactly, to claim that these other candidates were being run BY the Daley or Stroger machines is bizarre!
Anyway, soon AFTER Obama won his state senate seat, he fell in line with the dirty Chicago machine.
AFTER Obama went to the US Senate?
A bipartisan coalition of “good government” Chicago leaders had a real chance of defeating the Daley machine. — However? Obama supported the machine candidates, and the clean, good-government candidates lost in a close election!
Make no mistake, Daley is dirty. Many of Daley’s former ward bosses and city staff are in prison. Federal regulators and the courts have several orders and restrictions on the Daly Machine.
Most of Daley’s campaign money comes from CITY EMPLOYEES and from contractors with the City.
“No show” employees, on the city payroll, are common.
City jobs are awarded based on political machine politics —
And Obama has NEVER lifted a finger to clean up Chicago!
Phantom do you have a problem with the Ayres information being made public?
Would you want him teaching your kids?
Bad thing for mccain is there is a generation that probably never heard of the Keating 5, mccain’s role, or Cindy’s very profitable venture with unrepentant keating.
The Republican party in all of its “dignity”.
SO frustrated and angry are they in there failing campaign, they now have crowds attacking the press.
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/10/07/mccain-palin-crowd-getting-ugly/
How very illustrative of the character of people who vote Republican.
Phantom
McCain has had SEVERAL elections, since the Keeting deal, in which McCain was CLEARED of any wrongdoing.
Obama?
Obama is still new to the public, we don’t know him.
Also, McCain LEARNED from his experience, probably even over-reacting, where campaign finance laws are concerned.
Obama?
Obama is one of the most corrupt politicians in history.
There is NO evidence that McCain is swayed by his contributors.
There is a huge amount of evidence that Obama has NEVER gone against the wishes of his contributors and supporters.
Proof that Obama is tight with the dirty Chicago machine?
Tony Rezco, the convicted criminal, and political fundraiser for Obama and the rest of the corrupt Chicago establishment!
“Regardless Ayers had no right to destroy public buildings. None.”
On that we agree okob. Perhaps more than you might know – I was in a type of building that might have been targeted. (science research at UCLA)
Don’t you think the ultimate drinking game would be every time Barry says the word “change”? Since I don’t drink, excepting an occasional beer, I think I will keep track tonight just to see how drunk I could get and how fast.
New U.S. intelligence report warns ‘victory’ not certain in Iraq
WASHINGTON — A nearly completed high-level U.S. intelligence analysis warns that unresolved ethnic and sectarian tensions in Iraq could unleash a new wave of violence, potentially reversing the major security and political gains achieved over the last year.
U.S. officials familiar with the new National Intelligence Estimate said they were unsure when the top-secret report would be completed and whether it would be published before the Nov. 4 presidential election.
More than a half-dozen officials spoke to McClatchy on condition of anonymity because NIE’s, the most authoritative analyses produced by the U.S. intelligence community, are restricted to the president, his senior aides and members of Congress except in rare instances when just the key findings are made public.
The new NIE, which reflects the consensus of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, has significant implications for Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama, whose differences over the Iraq war are a major issue in the presidential campaign.
The findings seem to cast doubts on McCain’s frequent assertions that the United States is “on a path to victory” in Iraq by underscoring the deep uncertainties of the situation despite the 30,000-strong U.S. troop surge for which he was the leading congressional advocate.
But McCain could also use the findings to try to strengthen his argument for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq until conditions stabilize.
For Obama, the report raises questions about whether he could fulfill his pledge to withdraw most of the remaining 152,000 U.S. troops within 16 months of taking office so that more U.S. forces could be sent to battle the growing Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan.
Word of the draft NIE comes at a time when Iraq is enjoying its lowest levels of violent incidents since early 2004 and a 77 percent drop in civilian deaths in June through August 2008 over the same period in 2007, according to the Defense Department.
U.S. officials say last year’s surge of 30,000 troops, all of whom have been withdrawn, was just one reason for the improvements. Other factors include the truce declared by anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al Sadr, the leader of an Iran-backed Shiite Muslim militia; and the enlistment of former Sunni insurgents in Awakening groups created by the U.S. military to fight al Qaida in Iraq and other extremists.
The draft NIE, however, warns that the improvements in security and political progress, like the recent passage of a provincial election law, are threatened by lingering disputes between the majority Shiite Arabs, Sunni Arabs, Kurds and other minorities, the U.S. officials said.
Sources of tension identified by the NIE, they said, include a struggle between Sunni Arabs, Kurds and Turkmen for control of the oil-rich northern city of Kirkuk; and the Shiite-led central government’s unfulfilled vows to hire former Sunni insurgents who joined Awakening groups.
A spokesman for Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, whose office compiled the estimate, declined comment, saying the agency does not discuss NIE’s.
The findings of the intelligence estimate appear to be reflected in recent statements by Army Gen. David Petraeus, the former top U.S. commander in Iraq, who has called the situation “fragile” and “reversible” and said he will never declare victory there.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice echoed that tone on Monday during a State Department awards ceremony for Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker.
“Ladies and gentlemen, nothing is certain in this life. And success in Iraq is not a sure thing,” Rice said in an uncharacteristically downbeat comment.
The NIE findings parallel a Defense Department assessment last month that warned that despite “promising developments, security gains in Iraq remain fragile. A number of issues have the potential to upset progress.”
Trouble spots include whether the former Sunni insurgents, also known as the Sons of Iraq, find permanent employment; provincial elections scheduled for January; Kirkuk’s status; the fate of internally displaced people and returning refugees; and “malign Iranian influence,” the unclassified Pentagon report said.
The intelligence agencies’ estimate also raises worries about what would happen if Sadr, the anti-U.S. cleric, attempts to reassert himself, according to senior intelligence officials familiar with its contents.
If Sadr abandons his cease-fire, it is unclear whether his former followers would rejoin his cause or whether his movement is permanently fractured, and thus harder to control.
The embattled Sons of Iraq program may prove to be the ultimate challenge to sustained stability in Iraq. The U.S. program to pay mostly Sunni former insurgents to protect their neighborhoods or in some cases to stop shooting at Americans is now moving into the hands of the Shiite-led government.
Many of the roughly 100,000 men of the mostly Sunni paramilitary groups have fled to Syria, while others remain in Iraq, worried that the Shiite government will disband and detain the men. The U.S. military has promised not to abandon the men, of whom about 54,000 were transferred to Iraqi government control this month.
(Leila Fadel contributed from Baghdad.)
Actually Chris, it could be interesting to see who says change more – Barack or Sidney.
Ben,
Thank you for the Iraq info, but that’s depressing news.
The Iraq situation is “fragile”, the stock market is down 800+ in two days. . . and Palin is making bogus attacks on Obama about a “former” terrorist.
Actually, I think the Vietnam War, first entered into by Democrats JFK and LBJ, was a noble effort.
Check your history, Franklin.
The Vietnam Conflict occurred in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia from 1959 to April 30, 1975.
Check it out, Franklin.
Eisenhower 1953-1961
Kennedy – 1961-1963
So who first got us into Vietnam?
cosmos_originally
Posted October 7, 2008 at 5:31 pm | Permalink
Ben,
Thank you for the Iraq info, but that’s depressing news.
The Iraq situation is “fragile”, the stock market is down 800+ in two days. . . and Palin is making bogus attacks on Obama about a “former” terrorist.
OF COURSE! She FEARS a discussion on the issues.
#
Predestined
Posted October 7, 2008 at 6:35 pm | Permalink
Actually, I think the Vietnam War, first entered into by Democrats JFK and LBJ, was a noble effort.
Check your history, Franklin.
The Vietnam Conflict occurred in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia from 1959 to April 30, 1975.
Check it out, Franklin.
Eisenhower 1953-1961
Kennedy – 1961-1963
So who first got us into Vietnam?
——————–
Irrelevant, who escalated the war when it didn’t need to be escalated?
The Democrats, that’s who…
Then, “Regular” –
Under which president did the most Americans die in Vietnam?
You know, the guy who got elected with his “secret plan to end the war”?
Pall,
I knew the local head of SDS back in the ’60’s. During that time, he didn’t actually commit any terrorist acts, but it wasn’t for lack of trying; luck just wasn’t with him. Didn’t much like him, since he was often at cross purposes with what I was doing, but I did know him. Years later, I consulted with him on an ad campaign I was part of for the highly regarded charity he was now running. I suppose in your eyes that makes me a terrorist. Oh well, being a terrorist royally beats being an insurance salesman and coal mine flack any day of the week!
“SO frustrated and angry are they in there failing campaign, they now have crowds attacking the press.”
The “press” isn’t the press anymore, at least an honest press.
They are for the most part nothing but a biased propaganda machine.