Five of the six members of the Kansas delegation on Capitol Hill have voted against the $700 billion financial bailout, doing what’s popular with constituents short term rather than what’s necessarily best for the U.S. economy and Kansas businesses. The House, which set off the largest single-day stock sell-off in history Monday with its failed vote, now is expected to consider the Senate-passed version of the bailout, even more expensive because of tax credits and other goodies. Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Goddard, has said he might support the revised bailout “if it has good enough reforms in it that will change the marketplace.” Changing the marketplace sounds like a worthy goal – but for another day and bill. Tiahrt and other Kansans in the House would do well to remember that they are casting votes in the real world, where credit is fast freezing up and jobs, savings and investments are at unprecedented risk.
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- DavidB on Health care reform would save state money
- DavidB on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
- American_Way on Open thread 11/22
97 Comments
The only solution Republicans have come up with are more tax cuts for business. It’s not like they can come up with any new ideas. They’re just seeing this as another opportunity to reward their donors.
Don’t worry folks, Bush has it covered. NASCAR will be covered with the bailout:
http://www.athlists.com/?p=89
Because if there’s one thing that can represent the Bush administration it’s an event which has cars going really really fast but ending up in the same location they started.
Congress and their spent thrift policies has caused this housing and market adjustment. Don’t put the blame on our Kansas representatives. The Congress bailout is loaded with extra billions for the politicians pet projects. Somebody needs to slow the bandits down.
Rhonda, thanks for being part of this socialist, fear-mongering. Thanks for helping perpetuate it. For once our “leaders” are doing the right thing for us. Chicken-sh.it broad.
How dare the congressmen and women actually listen to their constituents. It is being reported that Wall Street firms are using their employees to flood Congress with pro bailout phone calls and e-mails. That has changed the ratio of calls running against the bailout from 20 to 1 to 4 to 1. Contrary to the media spin, the big dow jones drop the other day has not resulted in a swing to people wanting the bailout passed. Also contrary to media spin, the world will not end if the House rejects the bailout again. I pray that it will be voted down again and again until we get a bill that does not contain all the pork and does not hand over total control of our economy to unelected bureaucrats.
It will be a complete financial dictatorship. And Rhonda loves the idea! Dumb broad.
I am glad that our two Senators and twoo of our
Congressman have had the courage to stand against this legislation that will be a disaster worse than the one we have that the socialist have caused.
Rhonda you and the rest of your socialist friends need to take a hike and leave the country.
I don’t want to re-post from yesterday my observation that, in terms of economics, bad policy = good politics and good policy = bad politics.
And when I see some
cranksposters bitch about the bailout — and I share a lot of their visceral objections — I’m hit cold stark reality.I just got 3rd Quarter reports from my investments — mutual funds, 401k, some inherited stocks — and it’s more than a little disconcerting. My home town suffered extensive flood damage last year and is funding the recovery in part with municipal bonds. We can’t get funding because the credit isn’t there.
My friend in Georgia says the “fuel shortage” down there isn’t due to hurricanes, but due to the credit crunch. A lot of local convenience stores routinely borrow to meet business expenses — he explained the typical 90 “float” in terms I wasn’t all that familiar with — as are trucking contractors who haul fuel to retailers. It’s one of those domino-effect ramifications that link Wall Street with Main Street.
Between October, 1929 and March, 1932 the Hoover Administration did, basically, nothing to stave off the Great Depression. It might have been good policy but it obviously was bad politics. We liberals and CONs have argued about the New Deal for 70 years and we still can’t agree if it was good policy or just good politics.
Somehow I’m coming around to think the bailout, if only because it’s catching flak from both the Right and the Left, might be good policy.
I can see how a No vote might be easier to live with for a month; ’til election day. That’s politics.
They’ve cut the strings of Golden Parachutes. Not every bad loan is “worthless,” and there have been added oversight provisions for how the money will be spent — a tremendous improvement over giving Hank Paulson fiat over $750 Billion.
Unregulated, unwise, and unrepentant capitalism has built a house of
strawcards. But it’s the house we’re living in.I fear it’s short-term prudent to shore up the house we’re in and go about the tough work it’ll take to move up the street and build a house of brick. And I have no doubt the pigs will be waiting to profit from it.
SSITL, were you home schooled? Cant read.
“Five of the six members of the Kansas delegation on Capitol Hill have voted against the $700 billion financial bailout.”
Uh, three congress critters voted against, one for. Two senators against. That makes FIVE, not four.
And you wonder why we dont respect you in the morning?
And are you acknowledging that this is a socialist proposal made by bushco? Sounds like it.
MonkeyHawk,
“I just got 3rd Quarter reports from my investments — mutual funds, 401k, some inherited stocks — and it’s more than a little disconcerting.”
I’m assuming you didnt mind when your investments GREW during the stock market boom? You were happy to take the profits then, so now that the market swings back, you dont like it? Gotta take the bad if you also took the good.
And as for your hometown flooding, I’m sorry. Really. But I wonder, did the majority of the voters in your town vote for bush? Twice?
Then… they get what they deserve. I’m sorry that punishes you, too.
But.. they wanted him. Twice. They got him. Twice.
And the piper must be paid.
I think our congressmen are right with their no vote. These politicians don’t really know what they are doing with regard to this bailout. Given time this situation will work itsself out just as it should with no govenment intervention. Let the bad businessmen go out of business and the good businessmen buy up their assets at pennies on the dollar.
That’s how the system is supposed to work. This bailout is just political posturing at it’s worst as it is an election year.
Agree kfg.
The little guy gets hurt, for a little while.
But maybe the little guy, or some of them anyway, get a better idea of who is in charge, what is going on, and what that means.
The Democrats motive in this to help the little guy and generally do the thing that is for the greater good IS honest. But let us remember that the call for help came from…
george w bush. HE is looking out for his base. The haves, and the have mores.
JR, you have way more confidence in the voting public than I do. Obviously.
And I dont believe, for one minute, that “democrats” want to help the little guy and do anything for the greater good.
They are looking out for their own asses, and the asses of their contributors.
SSDD
They are ALL owned by the same people.
And it aint you and I!
“ksfarmgrrl” nails me –
I’m assuming you didnt mind when your investments GREW during the stock market boom? You were happy to take the profits then, so now that the market swings back, you dont like it? Gotta take the bad if you also took the good.
Yeah.
Guilty.
But I’m a really, ahem, conservative investor.
My drop wasn’t necessarily precipitous but sure wasn’t fun to see.
Yup.
But even the green companies I’m into are taking a hit. I’ll be okay, but the Domino Effect became obvious.
“And as for your hometown flooding, I’m sorry. Really. But I wonder, did the majority of the voters in your town vote for bush? Twice?”
Oh hell, you know the did.
Just to keep you from getting married.
It’s just as disconcerting to walk downtown and know that four out of five people I see voted against same-gender marriage.
Still, I guess I’m a bleeding-heart liberal. The lady who comes one morning a week to suck the rugs and clean up the mess I live in was truly worried last month as the creek behind her house crept up ever closer to her house.
She’s always been a Republic Party voter since her late husband “was in the war with Ike.” I think I’ve converted her from voting for another Republic Party.
But, yeah, I’m selfish. She sometimes brings me a pie. Her pies are to die for.
Aw hell. I’m a pie junkie.
Right, the bailout is such a good idea, that’s why economist after economist has come out against it. And last time I checked, I liked representatives that listen to me rather than the know it all’s at the Eagle, who clearly don’t know it all.
“It’s just as disconcerting to walk downtown and know that four out of five people I see voted against same-gender marriage.”
Yeah, MH. And if it is disconcerting to you, IMAGINE how “disconcerting” it is to me!!!!
Until everyone who voted for bushco feels the pain, and I mean PAIN of those votes, they wont learn.
I bet your pie lady will vote for mcsame anyway. I hope you converted her, but pardon me for being doubtful.
I am sorry for all the pain caused by republics in charge of congress for twelve years, and the white house for eight years. Really. I feel it too.
But honestly, if the voters who put the republics in charge are insulated from the pain of their choices, how will they ever learn to make GOOD choices?
As Anti would say…Let ‘em burn.
The time line where Bush tried to do something every year he was in office about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The party of History revisionism, the Democrats never change their lying ways even when shown the facts.
Time line of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and how the Democrats ignore the warning and obstructed legislation.
2001
April: The Administration’s FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is “a potential problem,” because “financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity.”
2002
May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)
2003
January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.
February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that “although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations,” “the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them.” As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. (”Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO,” OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)
September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO’s review found earnings manipulations.
September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact “legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises” and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.
October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.
November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any “legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk.” To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have “broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards” and “receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)
2004
February: The President’s FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: “The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator.” (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)
February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to “not take [the financial market's] strength for granted.” Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by “ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator.” (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, “Keeping Fannie And Freddie’s House In Order,” Financial Times, 2/24/04)
June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying “We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System.” (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)
2005
April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying “Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system.” (Secretary John W. Snow, “Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee,” 4/13/05)
2007
July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.
August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying “first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options.” (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)
September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.
September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.
December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying “These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I’ve called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon.” (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)
2008
January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.
January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.
February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says “A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully.” (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)
March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.
March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and “move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)
April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and “modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)
May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.
“Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans.” (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)
“[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator.” (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)
“Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans.” (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)
June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying “we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.” (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)
July: Congress heeds the President’s call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.
In 2005– Senator John McCain partnered with three other Senate Republicans to reform the government’s involvement in lending.
Democrats blocked this reform, too.
More… Not only did democrats not act on these warnings but Barack Obama put one of the major Sub-Prime Slime players on his campaign as finance chairperson.
UPDATE: The media is not reporting that the failed financial institutions are big Obama donors.
http://ussenterprise.blogdns.net/blog2/archive/2008/09/24/771.aspx
Reg, come on. You are better than that. You KNOW the public isnt buying the “democrats caused this” meme.
I guess the voting public just isnt as smart as you.
, doing what’s popular with constituents short term rather than what’s necessarily best for the U.S
Should be doing what’s perceived as necessary to continue in their career, rather than what’s good for the country.
How long would the depression have lasted, without intervention?
There hasn’t been a stock market boom for the last 8 yrs.
Hell, it’s quite a bit lower now than when GW took office.
If there had been a dem. admin. during the last 8 yrs. with a solid dem. majority for 6 of them, I’d be cursing them and most likely throwing the bums out.
Bet Roberts and brownback are going to be pissed at todd if he votes for it.
Slattery ought to use this against Roberts, maybe something like ‘Not fit to lead, putting self before country’; It might not play to the hard core repubs. but moderates and the thinking public might buy it.
“Five of the six members of the Kansas delegation on Capitol Hill have voted against the $700 billion financial bailout …”
That should tell you something.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted October 3, 2008 at 9:00 am | Permalink
Reg, come on. You are better than that. You KNOW the public isnt buying the “democrats caused this” meme.
I guess the voting public just isnt as smart as you.
—————————————–
The finger pointing by he Democrats deserves an answer.
I just pointed out the facts when they say Bush is at fault. It’s also on video where the Democrats staunching defended Fannie Mae and blasted the oversight regulators for attacking their cash cow.
Facts are facts, that doesn’t change.
Maybe not smarter than the American publci, but I do pay attention and don’t change history by making up my own facts.
It seems we are suffering the effects of a bad policy idea that prevailed against common sense.
The “freshman college student and the first credit card” I can’t be broke as I still have a credit card to pay for it! Another concept is “I can’t be overdrawn as I still have checks in the book!”.
It’s a really crappy and ignorant way to do business or handle your personal life. The economy and the country are now in the same boat as that freshman. Looking for mommy and daddy to cover the bad financial policies. And with the same desire, no personal loss of spending or loss of what you bought on the credit. It is also the effect of the loss of the Gold standard, when we went from our economy being one build and supported by a tangible assurance to one based on the value of the paper the money is printed on.
Its like if you had a one dollar bill and needed one hundred dollars, just pull out your pencil and add two zeros and now its one hundred!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
Please take the time to watch this 45 minute video.
It is called money as debt. It explains what our monetary system is, and also explain why it is unsustainable.
If anyone has questions, please ask me. I have seen it twice and understand it.
Our money is created from debt. If you really want to hurt the system, pay off all of your debt in chunks. Once you have paid it off, save your money.
As long as you live above your means, you will be destined to live beneath your means.
Let that sink in. The words are as true as the sky is blue.
No matter how Tiahrt votes, there will be a Democrat, in 4 years, who tries to hang that vote around his neck.
This is a DEMOCRAT scandal.
Democrats forced lenders to make risky loans. Democrats threatened lawsuits, criminal charges and protests at bank branches if risky loans were not made.
That was the “stick” —
Democrats also promised, through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, that they would buy up these bad loans.
So — lenders made risky loans.
According to Democrat Bill Clinton, he tried to stop some of this. I am not sure what he meant by that, but Clinton did say that the Democrats, in Congress, prevented proper controls being placed on Fannie and Freddie.
Clinton also said that the Democrats, in Congress, were wrong to resist the efforts of Bush, and the Republicans (like McCain) to regulate and control Fannie and Freddie.
Now? After Democrats Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and the Congressional Black Caucus CAUSED this problem — now you are asking Tiart and other Republicans to clean up, after a DEMOCRAT mess!
I want this legislation to pass.
I hope that it can pass without Tiahrt’s vote.
If tiahrt votes against many of his constituents today, I think I’ll quit assailing him every chance I get.
I’m sure that’s a load off his mind!
Heh, and paulie shows his true republican colors.
He’s for something, but hopes his rep doesnt vote for it so he doesnt have to take the political hit.
A vote for tiahrt is a vote for that kind of paulithink…
Since paulie thinks it’s a democrat scandal, and he doesnt want tiahrt to vote for it…
…does that mean boyda and moore dont have to vote to clean up the republican mess in iraq?
just askin’…
“doing what’s popular with constituents short term rather than what’s necessarily best for the U.S. economy and Kansas businesses. ”
Prove it bitch.
SolDevVB
Posted October 3, 2008 at 10:31 am | Permalink
“doing what’s popular with constituents short term rather than what’s necessarily best for the U.S. economy and Kansas businesses. ”
Prove it bitch.
========
Sol, did I ever tell you I like the way you think?
Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008
Name
Office
Party/State
Total
1. Dodd, Christopher J
S
D-CT
$133,900
2. Kerry, John
S
D-MA
$111,000
3. Obama, Barack
S
D-IL
$105,849
4. Clinton, Hillary
S
D-NY
$75,550
5. Kanjorski, Paul E
H
D-PA
$65,500
6. Bennett, Robert F
S
R-UT
$61,499
7. Johnson, Tim
S
D-SD
$61,000
8. Conrad, Kent
S
D-ND
$58,991
9. Davis, Tom
H
R-VA
$55,499
10. Bond, Christopher S ‘Kit’
S
R-MO
$55,400
11. Bachus, Spencer
H
R-AL
$55,300
12. Shelby, Richard C
S
R-AL
$55,000
13. Emanuel, Rahm
H
D-IL
$51,750
14. Reed, Jack
S
D-RI
$50,750
15. Carper, Tom
S
D-DE
$44,389
16. Frank, Barney
H
D-MA
$40,100
17. Maloney, Carolyn B
H
D-NY
$38,750
18. Bean, Melissa
H
D-IL
$37,249
19. Blunt, Roy
H
R-MO
$36,500
20. Pryce, Deborah
H
R-OH
$34,750
21. Miller, Gary
H
R-CA
$33,000
22. Pelosi, Nancy
H
D-CA
$32,750
23. Reynolds, Tom
H
R-NY
$32,700
24. Hoyer, Steny H
H
D-MD
$30,500
25. Hooley, Darlene
H
D-OR
$28,750
Includes contributions from PACs and individuals.
2008 cycle totals based on data downloaded from the
Federal Election Commission on June 30, 2008.
—–
Why did Democrats get so much more money, from Fannie and Freddie?
Simple: Democrats bought into the idea that EVERYONE should have a home and a mortgage, regardless of credit history.
Glad to hear it. Tired of these talking heads talking out thier @sses. These shill ‘reporters’ that can’t even research their own stuff, but repeat what the other ‘reporters’ spew.
Enough is enough. Hold Washington accountable. Vote their @sses out.
DAMN I’m fed up
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
Ron Paul !!!!
“The root cause is the housing foreclosure crisis” Chris Dodd, Democrat:
http://www.youtube.com/TheMouthPeace
So Econ, what does it feel like to have an elephant’s c0ck up your @ss?
You support the bailout or not?
Guess paulie’s comment says more about him than it does about tiahrt.
Hell, if tiahrt shows some leadership quality, I may not even vote against him!
Now that the economy is in the sh*thouse, this ‘Ron Paul’ you speak of makes alot more sense.
You Democrats want Republicans to take political risks in order to fix DEMOCRAT scandals and Democrat mistakes.
Prediction:
Tiart will win, easily, this time around.
However, 4 years from now, you Dems saying that Tiart MUST vote in favor of this legislation —
Will be saying Tiarth was WRONG to vote for this legislation.
You want to hurt Tiahrt.
dang key pad problems
I’ve always thought that repubs. could lead their true believers to slaughter, and they would still be confessing their loyalty while waiting in line for their bullet to the head.
this ‘Ron Paul’ you speak of makes alot more sense.
He made sense 10 years ago. People were too damn dumb to listen.
Wells Fargo buying up Wachovia, who’d of thunk it?
I think there are a lot of people who would oppose the bailout except for the fact that they think that half their personal 401K saving will be gone if it doesn’t happen.
I’m years away from retirement. The economy is not dead, people are still working and living.
So I am biased on the matter.
However, I know that things will bounce back. It will be easier to do so if market decides where the bottom is and not the Federal Government.
However, it’s all political now. How does congress frame this thing to make themselve look good no matter what happens?
SolDevVB
Posted October 3, 2008 at 10:49 am | Permalink
this ‘Ron Paul’ you speak of makes alot more sense.
He made sense 10 years ago. People were too damn dumb to listen.
======
I know, generally I have agreed with most of his ideas.
It’s not a done deal Phantom. Citigroup is demanding that their deal, complete with FDIC handout, be allowed to go through.
You know, instead of the one with Wells that does NOT include a handout from FDIC.
Your tax dollars at work.
Given time, the private sector will weed out the things that need to fail, and buy up the rest. That is, unless we interfere with the process with a BIG government bailout for rich guys.
Actually
Wells Fargo INSTEAD of Citi.
— bought out Wachovia.
The government arranged deal fell through BECAUSE Wells Fargo was willing to pay more than Citi.
That is good news, actually.
Some, however I have disagreed with in practicality….those opinions have slowly been changing in my mind.
The East will be handed the baton as the new world economic power.
Just as we took it away from Britain, the Chinese and Japanese will take it from us.
Ron Paul was right. We all should’ve listened to him 20 years ago. He told us, and told us.
Our arrogance has blinded us. Now we will have to get back to a free market and rebuild our economy.
I can’t wait to see what these sorry sacks of sh*t journalists put up on here when this bailout doesn’t work.
Anyone watch the video I linked earlier?
KFG
Actually, FDIC is funded by premiums on banks.
Franklin, your lack of economic knowledge is disturbing.
Keep playing partisan games. Facism is no better than socialism.
Austrian
There is not enough gold, in the entire world, for the United States to go on the “gold standard” —
You are the crack pot on that one.
Yeah Paulie. And FDIC is looking to cash in on some of that bailout cash too, since they say they dont have ENOUGH money to cover all the problems on the horizon. If Citi takes a big chunk, they’ll have to bail out FDIC too.
And as for the private sector remorse, like AIG…
Party on, dudes!
”
AIG subsidiary parties in style in OC, two weeks after bailout
October 2nd, 2008, 7:00 am · 30 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
Financial crisis? What financial crisis?
Less than two weeks after Uncle Sam gave American International Group (AIG) an $85 billion loan – staving off financial collapse – execs from one of its insurance subsidiaries, AIG American General, gathered for a conference at the uber-swank St. Regis Monarch Beach Resort, billed as “California’s only Mobil Travel Guide Five-Star Resort,” where ocean-view rooms start at $565 a night and “world class luxury” is the rule.
On Friday, before the presidential debate got under way, caterers for the St. Regis were setting up dozens of tables on the grounds of Mission San Juan Capistrano for AIG American General’s sumptuous off-site dinner. Tables were draped with soft Tuscan-gold tablecloths that cascaded to the grass; elegant fresh flower centerpiece graced each table; and what appeared to be fine crystal stemware, at least from a distance, glistened in the fading light.”
http://taxdollars.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/02/after-... /
Oh, so maybe the value of gold increases then?
How about I compromise and we have a basket of commodities back the dollar?
Does that help you get past your hatred of sound money?
We have to have something backing our money. Government faith has proven to risky at this point.
As I have always said, this is what happens when you play with monopoly money.
Crack pot. Sounds like something William Kristol said about Ron Paul.
Who is the crack pot now?
Ron Paul should just laugh at all of those who made fun of him, but he has too much integrity and is trying to help our country.
What good does having a million dollars do if a loaf of bread cost $200?
It’s like what the skunk said when the wind changed- “It all comes back to me now!”
Franklin has swallowed WAAAAAAAY to much elephant jizz to make any sense.
For claiming to be an economist, he really has no understanding of money and credit.
Anytime you’d like to debate Franklin, I’m ready.
Bush
Obama
McCain
Bailout.
Nuff said.
You know McCain could have had the election all tied up had he been a maverick and demanded alternatives to this crap sandwich. But McCain and Obama BOTH just bent over and took the NeoCon Elephant’s c0ck straight up the poopshoot.
Change? Yeah, not so much.
Maverick? Yeah, not seeing it here.
Paul – in case you failed to comprehend more Democrats came forward to support Bush’s plan than Republicans. Of course, since you believe that the 40% who voted against Bush constitute a MAJORITY …
I suppose that since 40% is a majority that also explains how the Democrats did all that during the period all us 2nd-rate types actually thought the Republics had a majority in the Congress and that we had a Republic president (2001-2006)
KFG
The insurance subsidiaries of AIG, by law, are seperate, financially.
The insurance subsidiaries pay a portion of profits to the corporate parent.
However, the parent could go completely bankrupt, and the insurance policy holders would not be at risk at all, as long as the seperated assets of the insurance company are sound.
Ben
Nothing could happen without 60 votes in the Senate.
Democrats blocked Republican plans to regulate Fannie and Freddie.
It is a historical fact, Ben, look it up!
In the house, Barnie Frank and the Congressional Black Caucus pretty much called you a “racist” if you objected to the idea that poor people should be given mortgages.
The majority of Republicans wanted more regulation of Fannie and Freddie.
The majority of Democrats resisted more regulation of Fannie and Freddie.
Bill Clinton is honest about the fact that Democrats resisted regulations on Fannie and Freddie.
You? You are too partisan.
Ben, the partisan “scientist”.
The Scientific Method:
Hypothesis
Test
Evaluate results
Ben’s Method:
Hypothesis
Insult those who disagree
Ignore results!
Jesus Christ help us all.
You all know that this bailout is going to help foreign banks to sell their bad debt to American banks so that the treasury can buy them?
Anyone who supports this bailot is now a mortal enemy to me. This spits on the face fore fathers and everything they risked and died for.
How can some of you be so heartless? Do you even have a soul? This is going to ruin our country.
Wake the hell up. Your freedoms are gone, and they get shipped overseas if this bailout happens.
Franklin, who gives a sh*t who caused this. You are wrong anyway, it wasn’t democrats. It was the Federal Reserve System.
Your left vs Right rhetoric is beginning to fall more and more on deaf ears.
How about you read some books and get smarter? You are capable.
Being stupid and doing something stupid are not the same thing.
Open your eyes and look what is going on around you. This once free country is going to turn into a country ran by the state.
You will lose all of your rights. All of them.
PaulTheShrillShill – I am not claiming that the Democrats are blameless. However, I am not willing to go along with your claim that the Democrats are 100% to blame. You see, it has been your guys in charge of SEC, Treasury, etc etc etc for 7+ years.
Austrian
If you don’t care what caused the mess, then you are not qualified to discuss the issue.
Ben
Democrats PROTECTED Fannie and Freddie from SEC regulations.
Democrats PROTECTED Fannie and Freddie from the new regulatory agency that Bush wanted to create.
Democrats PROTECTED Fannie and Freddie from regulators.
Democrats insulted anyone who questioned Fannie and Freddie.
Fannie and Freddie were Democrat piggy banks and Democrat patronage job creators.
This is a Democrat scandal.
Sure Paul. The president and majority in Congress were impotent.
Good one Franklin.
The Federal Reserve System caused this mess.
What we are seeing now are the effects.
Qualified? hah. Absurd on the face of it. Anytime you wanna go toe to toe with me on economics, bring it on.
We’ll let the others on here decide who is qualified. You are probably too chickensh*t because we all know that I’d wipe the floor with you.
Keep playing partisan games. it shows just how smart you really are.
Austrian
You believe in a fringe, strange, crack pot view of economics which is out dated and not practical.
Get real! We are not going back to a gold standard, and that is the only thing you care about.
Ben
You scream the loudest, when Bush does something that you think Bush was not “authorized” to do.
Democrats in Congress would NOT authorize Bush to do what Bush requested, from Congress.
Democrats in Congress told Bush that Bush was wrong about Fannie and Freddie. Democrats in Congress told Bush that Fannie and Freddie were financially sound.
I have, again, yet to have anyone explain to me why the sky will fall if we don’t pass this bailout, why this package of aid will fix the problem, and why I should have any faith that gov’t (who at the least is complicit in creating this “crisis”) is competent to fix it.
Until they do so, let ‘em fail.
What I’ve heard from those in authority, in a nutshell, is “there’s a crisis, give us $700 billion and we can fix it.” That’s not good enough. What I’ve read from analysts outside gov’t (and their connected proposed recipients of this largess on Wall Street) is that there are real difference of opinion as to whether this is indeed a “crisis,” and whether this package of goodies can fix it.
Convince me. Until we’re convinced, they should continue to vote no. The biggest problem appears to be that that Wall Street played like the had the backing of the gov’t – playing, in effect with other people’s money – what economists refer to as “moral hazard.” This bailout doesn’t fix that problem, it exacerbates it.
Convince me. Gov’t, on either side of the aisle, hasn’t made the case for this bailout yet.
Let ‘em fail.
I already told you that I’d meet you half way and go to a basket of commodities backing the dollar.
Let’s be clear though. Something has to back the dollar.
Let’s hear your ideas.
Many of the banks DO deserve to fail.
However, those banks hold assets, on behalf of others, that the banks themselves do not own.
The businesses that depend on credit, from those banks, also do not deserve to fail.
Good democratic viewpoint Franklin.
Got anything us conservatives can support?
“You believe in a fringe, strange, crack pot view of economics which is out dated and not practical.”
Sounds like supply side voo doo to me…
“there’s a crisis, give us $700 billion and we can fix it.”
Correction follows:
*********************************************
“there’s a crisis, give us $700 billion.”
Any business that has to depend on credit from a huge bank like that is in trouble.
I can get credit for something from alocal bank if I need to.
This bailout is going to allow foreign banks to unload their bad debt onto the US treasury/
What does a foreign bank have to do with small business access to credit?
“Austrian_Economist
Posted October 3, 2008 at 12:10 pm | Permalink
Good democratic viewpoint Franklin.”
Please Austrian – don’t assign Paul to the Democrats. he belongs squarely with the Bush/McCain Republicans.
You and I can disagree on the economy as gentlemen – however I definitely cry FOUL if you try to lump Paul with us.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
You’re responding to people who objected to “Austrian_Economist” by insulting his native kangaroos.
Addressing “Franklin” has moved beyond “Don’t Feed the Trolls” to “Why bother with the idiot?”
“Franklin” has admitted he considers his role in this forum to throw out ideas and report back to the Republic Party about the responses he gets.
I guess the “Obama is 44% Arab” line didn’t test well despite all the energy he devoted to it.
And I wonder about the laugh-fest that must occur at the Kansas Republic Party headquarters every time “Franklin” reports in from the front.
Austrian
MANY businesses run on a line of credit.
For flexibility, that is often smart.
Purchasing inventory on credit is common.
“You’re responding to people who objected to “Austrian_Economist” by insulting his native kangaroos.?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Yeah, I wonder too about the laughfest. He’s given up on the “obama is an arab” meme, can we hope he’ll eventually give up on the “democrats did this” response to the finanicial mess?
heheheh. Hell, if obama wins, we’ll probably have to listen to that for four more years, not weeks…
Could pelosi PLEASE have some desire to spend more time with her family? Jesus WEPT! Her performance through all this is disgusting. Listening to her this morning made me want to throw my chicken crap encrusted boot through the screen.
Except I’d have to pay for the damages. Kinda like I’m going to be doing for this bailout.
When I do stupid stuff, I have to pay for it.
When they do stupid stuff, I STILL have to pay for it.
WTF?
Looks like tiahrt doesn’t get my respect nor vote, that’s a relief!
Good thing Kansas doesn’t call the shots. No Repub incumbents. They never stop working for themselves.
Oy, I’m turing off this self congratulation fest the House leadership is having. They are PROUD of this?
Off to the chicken coop.
” my chicken crap encrusted boot”
KFG- Did you know that chicken crap was a good cure for freckles?
PS- It was lonely in kindergarten!
Democrats pass Bush’s bill for him:
“According to preliminary numbers, 172 Democrats voted in favor of the bill while 62 opposed it; and 91 Republicans voted for it and 108 voted against it.”
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/03/news/economy/house_friday_bailout/index.htm?postversion=2008100313
McCain’s “leadership” (sic) is shown by how well (sic) he brought his own party on board.
When the difficult decisions have to be made, don’t look to your repub leadership for direction. They figured even if worse came to worse, they’d still have their jobs and pensions, even if you didn’t. All they had to do was pander to their constituents.
Anyone have a link for the how the resp voted. I’m making out my hit list.
bth
Posted October 3, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
Democrats pass Bush’s bill for him:
——-
And stocks go down…
President Obama will do everything he can to keep the tanker in boeing’s corner. He has strong ties to Sebelius, and would want to help out her state.
Pres. Mccain would do everything he could to send the contract to the E.U., he would most likely like to get a little revenge against ks. repubs. that didn’t support his campaign.
Repubs. will be marginalized for years if not decades in congress, it’s time to vote out the incumbents.
Phantom,
It is not the governments job to keep aircraft work in Kansas.
How do you not get that?
Lawmaker Accused of Fannie Mae Conflict of Interest
Friday, October 03, 2008
By Bill Sammon
WASHINGTON — Unqualified home buyers were not the only ones who benefitted from Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank’s efforts to deregulate Fannie Mae throughout the 1990s.
So did Frank’s partner, a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions.
Now that Fannie Mae is at the epicenter of a financial meltdown that threatens the U.S. economy, some are raising new questions about Frank’s relationship with Herb Moses, who was Fannie’s assistant director for product initiatives. Moses worked at the government-sponsored enterprise from 1991 to 1998, while Frank was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie.
Both Frank and Moses assured the Wall Street Journal in 1992 that they took pains to avoid any conflicts of interest. Critics, however, remain skeptical.
“It’s absolutely a conflict,” said Dan Gainor, vice president of the Business & Media Institute. “He was voting on Fannie Mae at a time when he was involved with a Fannie Mae executive. How is that not germane?
“If this had been his ex-wife and he was Republican, I would bet every penny I have – or at least what’s not in the stock market – that this would be considered germane,” added Gainor, a T. Boone Pickens Fellow. “But everybody wants to avoid it because he’s gay. It’s the quintessential double standard.”
A top GOP House aide agreed.
“C’mon, he writes housing and banking laws and his boyfriend is a top exec at a firm that stands to gain from those laws?” the aide told FOX News. “No media ever takes note? Imagine what would happen if Frank’s political affiliation was R instead of D? Imagine what the media would say if [GOP former] Chairman [Mike] Oxley’s wife or [GOP presidential nominee John] McCain’s wife was a top exec at Fannie for a decade while they wrote the nation’s housing and banking laws.”
Frank’s office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Frank met Moses in 1987, the same year he became the first openly gay member of Congress.
“I am the only member of the congressional gay spouse caucus,” Moses wrote in the Washington Post in 1991. “On Capitol Hill, Barney always introduces me as his lover.”
The two lived together in a Washington home until they broke up in 1998, a few months after Moses ended his seven-year tenure at Fannie Mae, where he was the assistant director of product initiatives. According to National Mortgage News, Moses “helped develop many of Fannie Mae’s affordable housing and home improvement lending programs.”
Critics say such programs led to the mortgage meltdown that prompted last month’s government takeover of Fannie Mae and its financial cousin, Freddie Mac. The giant firms are blamed for spreading bad mortgages throughout the private financial sector.
Although Frank now blames Republicans for the failure of Fannie and Freddie, he spent years blocking GOP lawmakers from imposing tougher regulations on the mortgage giants. In 1991, the year Moses was hired by Fannie, the Boston Globe reported that Frank pushed the agency to loosen regulations on mortgages for two- and three-family homes, even though they were defaulting at twice and five times the rate of single homes, respectively.
Three years later, President Clinton’s Department of Housing and Urban Development tried to impose a new regulation on Fannie, but was thwarted by Frank. Clinton now blames such Democrats for planting the seeds of today’s economic crisis.
“I think the responsibility that the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was president, to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,” Clinton said recently.
Bill Sammon is FOX News’ Washington Deputy Managing Editor.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432501,00.html
“I can get credit for something from alocal bank if I need to.” — Austrian Economist
I get mine from the local alcohol bank.
What is this thing with cons and lists? I’m getting a blister on my scrolling finger from all the right-wing copy-and-paste. If brevity is the soul of wit, I hate to think what our con-bloggies have for brains!