Sarah Palin said during her ABC News interview last week that if Georgia joined NATO (which she supports) and Moscow attacked again, America might have to fight the Russians. “In other words,” columnist Trudy Rubin wrote, “the world’s two biggest nuclear powers would engage in battle, after avoiding such a catastrophe for the whole Cold War.”
“Are we really ready to go to war over Tbilisi?” Rubin asked.
She also asked for clarification from John McCain about what his views are. She noted that McCain has described himself as a “realist idealist” on foreign policy, but it is unclear whether he is more of a realist (in the mold of former Secretary of State James Baker) or more of an idealist (such as the neoconservatives who wanted to remake the Middle East).
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54 Comments
Just gearing up for the next major war predicted 2000 years ago (Rev 9:13-16) 1/3rd of mankind dead – http://www.endtime.com/EndtimeVidWin.aspx?id=2Billion-01 – time to make peace with your maker
Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela-
Russia snubbed its nose at the United States today by announcing plans to sell military equipment to both Iran and Venezuela.
The head of the state arms exporter said that Russia was negotiating to sell new anti-aircraft systems to Iran despite American objections.
“Contacts between our countries are continuing and we do not see any reason to suspend them,” Anatoly Isaikin, general director of Rosoboronexport, told Ria-Novosti at an arms fair in South Africa.
Reports have circulated for some time that Russia is preparing to sell its S-300 surface-to-air missile system to Iran, offering greater protection against a possible US or Israeli attack on the Islamic republic’s nuclear facilities. The missiles have a range of more than 150 kilometres and can intercept jets approaching at low altitudes.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4781027.ece
I think the Russians are preparing.
We should wait until Russia takes over all of Europe, then we can invade starting at Normandy, again.
How many people are actually stupid enough to follow through with a threat like that?
The politicians can express their views but the military is a separate entity willing and capable of refusing such radical actions.
Like I said: peace with your maker – http://www.realanswers.net/bornfree/swf/00s.html
WWSD? The answer, a resounding YES! (Always has her eye out for the interest of the Final Refuge)
BTW, Russia saying if we keep being contentious they’re going to prohibit using their airspace in the Afghan war.
Get your ticket to Alaska before the rush.
Phantom
Posted September 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
Get your ticket to Alaska before the rush.
——-
I’m going south. Russian’s don’t care for the heat.
Better red than dead, right ???
The Russian’s are also going to help Cuba with a “space program”.
Where can I hide????
Georgia is a complicated situation. The US supported Kosovo splitting from Serbia. In Georgia there is a similar situation – two ethnically different regions that want to split from Georgia. So – precisely what is the difference?
As for Russian arm sales – they are small compared to US arms sales.
I think the lesson here is that we cannot always rely on the double standard. We need to find a way to get back to a system where such situations get dealt with at a negotiating table rather than the battlefield. Unfortunately the precedent of invading a country just because we don’t like its leader makes that a harder thing to do.
Wiseman
Posted September 18, 2008 at 2:00 pm | Permalink
The politicians can express their views but the military is a separate entity willing and capable of refusing such radical actions.
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Do you know what Commander and Chief means? LOL
I believe that Sarah Palin’s position is shared by many other politicians, in Washington, on this particular issue.
If Phillip Brownlee would do his homework, he would have told us that.
A nation with oil resources, headed by a dictator who kills his own people with WMDs? Sounds like another American ally. Certainly we can’t let Russia get away with liberating the Georgian people who asked for their help.
“If” Georgia is an ally in NATO, the entire point is that if one country is attacked all will act in defense of one another.
It is meant to prevent countries like Russia from thinking they can or could get away with attacking a member of NATO.
If we are not prepared to defend Georgia if they were an ally in NATO, then why are you EDITORS not asking the same question about the other mebers of NATO?
Good point, Nathaniel. I’d suggest the other members of NATO aren’t quite as sure as Gov. Palin and those other anonymous politicians cited by Franklin who favor the admission of Georgia about admitting Georgia into NATO. Thus, the disagreement with Pres. Bush about fast tracking the admission (will be back with more specificity as to time of meeting).
April, 2008 NATO meeting where, according to various reports found by Googling, the U.S. position on a “fast track” admission of Georgia to NATO was not accepted by the other members.
The point I think I’m trying to make is that regardless of the agreement or disagreement on the issue of NATO membership for Georgia, it isn’t only the U.S. which has a vote on the matter.
Avtolle,
Unfortunately, I think that the media and EDITORS know that. It simply makes for better so-called journalism to speculate on having to go to war with Russia over Georgia.
Just the on going dumbing down of reporting to entertain the masses.
Nathaniel
Posted September 18, 2008 at 4:02 pm | Permalink
Avtolle,
Unfortunately, I think that the media and EDITORS know that. It simply makes for better so-called journalism to speculate on having to go to war with Russia over Georgia.
Just the on going dumbing down of reporting to entertain the masses.
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The war with Russia is all a fear tactic. We heard the same on Iran a year or so ago.
A sort of technicality question: If a NATO country were to INITIATE hostilities with another country would we back them up? Does the alliance work that way?
And then we have Greece and Turkey … do we enter on BOTH sides?
Ben, I’m far from an expert on NATO, but I think the mutual aid language in the treaty contemplates an attack on a member country before the obligation arises. As to Greece and Turkey, that’s an interesting question; I’ll hazard a guess that if they enter into hostilities against each other, then the other member countries are not obligated to back either side.
Because the other countries aren’t sitting on Russia’s border, Russsia hasn’t signed a defense pact with two breakaway areas in the other countries.
Georgia is to russia, as cuba is to the U.S., they very well might go to the mat.
I think if palin had any sense she’d told gibson, I don’t think we should speculate on our actions in this scenario.
Phantom,
Why? It is an honest answer. If you are an ally in NATO, we will defend you. Period. That is what the membership is all about.
There is not any “speculation” involved at all.
The only speculation is on Georgia being a member which was made by Gibson.
Actually more like Mexico/US. There is a common border; not water. And, the region involved (Ossetia) is split between Russia and Georgia – and wants its independence from Georgia. Just like Kosovo
vt – a follow up on my question then – if the country that the NATO member attacked counter-attacked. Do we go in?
This is why we should not get involved in foreign entanglements. And why we should not sign international agreements. I wonder if we all, each one of us, read these documents that bind us to all of these other countries, would we agree with them? Nope, these generations before us let our country go. For the sake of international BUSINESS. We gave up on our “trade” a long time ago, now we just have the dollar (it’s time is almost up) and bombs to buy and sell and use…oh yeah oil too.
This is funny…
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Hopper++Bug%27s+Life&emb=0&aq=f#
Don’t know, bth; I’d need to read the treaty to answer that. Again, hazarding a guess, no.
A bit more from memory; when the U.S. enlisted the help of the NATO allies in Afghanistan, there was serious debate IIRC among the members about the scope of obligation under the treaty. While it seems to me that the member states recognized that the 9/11 attack was traceable to Afghanistan, there was some question if the treaty obligations would apply given the “stateless” nature of al Qaida.
Dad,
“Better red than dead, right ???”
Nope, better blue than red come November!
I spent quite a long while in NATO as a member of the military and some countries take their role more serious than others.
Actually France, which at the time wasn’t a NATO member, was the most cooperative in exercises and deployments.
As far as the Greeks and Turks – it was always arranged that deployments of them didn’t occur in the same regions. :) Or at least, if it was an exercise, there were high level NATO observers to make sure there wasn’t any deliberate antagonisms going on.
The Germans were highly unpredictable. If it meant a chance to utilize their technology, they were all for it. However, when it came to committing to something that was the least bit controversial, there would be much backpedaling and non commitment.
The English were the most like the U.S. forces, willing to commit and do their duty as assigned. The Dutch were the laziest and quite frankly, acted like buffoons in uniforms.
vt – I think you can see where I am going with this. Russia alleges that Georgia provoked the situation by ‘invading’ Ossetia and Abkhazia. Russia already had ‘peace-keepers’ there and so took the Georgian action as an attack. So, they counter-attacked.
In effect, the Russian troops in the breakaway regions acted as a trip-wire.
Why do you think Georgia and the Ukrane have been begging to get into NATO?
Why do you think Poland and Romania were so agreeable to putting anti-missiles on their territory?
Eastern Europe knows what’s it like to be occupied by Nazis then Communists for 50 years. They know it is better to go to war to maintain their Freedom, then to live as a slave under an oppressive Government.
At some point the US would have to get involved if Russia topples Eastern Europe, one or two countries at a time.
It’s almost always easier to defend territory, then reclaim lost territory. Better to draw the line sooner, then later.
A weak wishy-washy response (like Obamaspeak) is exactly the response that will encourage Russia to reclaim Eastern Europe.
What we need now, is a very clear, strong, and firm response. Ya gotta draw the line sooner or later, might as well draw it now.
And don’t ask, tell Europe, they had better get involved in their own defense this time.
You know what, this whole debate about “a pretext” for Russia should be ended right now.
You want “a pretext” to attack Russia, there are plenty of them to choose from, including some listed on this site today.
“Why” Russia invaded Georgia doesn’t matter, as long as Georgia did not attack Russia. It’s hardly a matter of “self-defense” of mother Russia.
Do you think the US should sit back and answer the question “why were we attacked by Al Queada” before we attack Al Queada?
Did we ask ourselves why Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, and then make sure that we weren’t at fault for the attack on us, before we launched an attack on Japan?
Do you think those people in the WTC deserved to die because America is to blame for all of the Worlds problems? I’m sure some of you Radicals believe this.
And you are the same ones trying to justify Russia’s attack on Georgia.
Or maybe, you are on Russia’s side.
I know Obama’s pastor of 20 years believes America is at fault for 9/11. Our chickens came home to roost, remember?
Obama and his wife both hate America. Just listen to Obama’s speech in Germany, blaming his own country for the world’s problems. Obama’s wife is just now proud of her country now that her husband is runnning for President. (As if that changes anything.)
WTF kind of President blames his own country for everything?
I wonder if the Obamas spank themselves when they are bad?
Max – you may think it should be enedd – good for you. Others disagree.
And no, I am not on Russia’s side. I did not look into Putin’s eyes and see my soulmate like Bush did.
And the Russia-georgia fight has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.
“as long as Georgia did not attack Russia.” Russia claims that Georgia did, in fact, attack Russian ‘interests’.
“On Russia’s side”…tough talk…I want to know why we are fighting the world? We have so many lost people in this place. Ready to fight anyone just cause you think you’re a bad ass. Or maybe praying for “the end o’ the world, Lord”. So many people waiting to die, wanting to die. For whom? God? Can you even face Him? For Country? The policies put in place are eliminating everything that IS our country. I’ll fight, tooth and nail, for those inalienable rights, not for oil men and bankers and their greed. These folks have lied and abuse our goodwill whenever they want and yet we still bow to them and give respect where none is due.
I’m sure Putin will shake in his boots when President Obama takes over.
Here’s a question why is the US in Nato? during the Soviet era it made sense, Now the US operates as a qausi merc force in Europe execpt we dont get paid and the US taxpayer foots the bill for protecting Europe.
Here’s another question is the US willing to sacrifice large amounts of lives and treasure for a country that 90% of its citzens couldn’t find on a map.
Well, Max, at least Obama doesn’t consider Putin to be his soulmate like your boy does.
Bush is not my boy bth.
And the race right now is Obama vs McCain.
Putin would laugh his ass off at Obama, but not McCain.
I wouldn’t go to war over Georgia! Catch me on the right day and I’d even surrender Alabama and Tennessee!
Given that the European Union is comparable to the U.S., I don’t think it is in our National Interest to be a member of Nato. Time to cut the strings. If they had to pay for their own defense, we’d also be more competitive with them.
Really, America defending a NATO ally? I mean, how ridiculous is that?
I’d thought of Mexico, but thought it too big.
The choice and action taken by a member nation, is still up to that nation.
Pleefer
Your life, your way of life, will be worthless without oil.
Oil is the lifeblood of the American economy.
If you have ANYTHING at all worth fighting for, understand that, whatever that is, it will probably disapear, without oil.
I find zero shame in walking, drinking from a glass (not plastic), shopping at The Value Center and growing my own garden (it keeps me fit and agile…heh). I just wish I could sneak a cow in my backyard. I’ve spent my life going without, I do it now, by choice. Our credit in America is stretched so thin that after this “housing bubble” is through bursting, we’ll be on to the “credit card bubble”. Then following that will finally be the “US Treasury bubble”. We all need to do without. Let us keep strategic supplies and reserves, but other than that…we have email and teleconferencing. American’s need to take a step back.
Keeping up with the Jones’ caught up with us.
The dollar and its trade are our bread and butter. Why do you think we go after these “rogue” nations? Because they are tyrant’s? No, because they threaten to sell oil with other forms of currency.
We happen to have a lot of foreign made automobiles here also, we import and transport a lot of useless crap all over our country which exacerbates our need for oil. It’s like a Hydra and we just keep chopping heads off, letting them grow back…chopping heads off, letting them grow back…chopping heads off, letting them grow back…chopping heads off, letting them grow back…
Max – Putin will laugh at Sidney just as much as he laughs at Bush now.
Mr_Kia
Posted September 18, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Do you know what Commander and Chief means? LOL
__________________________________________
Do you know what is taught in boot camp?
I will give you an example.
The United State is in turmoil with riots and protest.
The commander and chief declare marshal laws and calls upon the military to quell the protests.
You are in the military and following orders you are told to hold off a line of protesters.
In that line is your brother and sister up front and in sight, your own flesh and blood, your commander has order you to shoot if necessary.
Question –
Do you follow your commander’s orders?
The tough question is do kill your own people for your commander and chief’s beliefs and political views?