Gov. Kathleen Sebelius was part of the Democrats’ counterattack Thursday against GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin. “She did a good job delivering a speech in a tough arena,” Sebelius said in a conference call to reporters. “She mastered the words written by the Bush speechwriters.” But Sebelius criticized the speech for its “partisan attacks and no real solutions” and questioned how she lobbied for federal money as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. “I don’t know any mayor in any small town in Kansas who hires a lobbyist and goes after (federal money) the way Sarah Palin did,” Sebelius said. As for the idea that Palin could pick up some votes from Hillary Clinton supporters: Sebelius put Palin “on the radical fringe of even the Republican Party on reproductive issues and privacy issues.”
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352 Comments
Once again Kansas Governor Sebelius from Ohio marginalizes herself in Kansas politics.
But. . .but. . .
You mean Palin had a speech writer? Damn her!
No Contest… Oh how I wish Obama had chosen her and taken her away!
Poor little Kathy she got wiped by Sarah big time. What a feeble little comment about speech writers. Sharah is pro life and considers private matters to be just that. Dems better fine another attack dog Kathy just want cut it and Hillary got screwed by Billy.
“She mastered the words written by the Bush speechwriters.”
What the hell? Politicians have speechwriters?? What’s up with that?? Did Sebelius have a speechwriter?? If not, she really should have considered it because SHE SUCKED at the DNC.
Barack, man, can’t you find anybody else to attack the Palin speech. You know, like, somebody that actually knows how to give one???
Poor Syphilis, Barack passed her up and now she’s going to get compared to Lipstick Jungle Palin. Just one more way to know Kansas citizens have gotten screwed the past 5 years.
What a pathetic excuse for a Governor we have. Tillers money may have bought her two terms in Cedar Crest, but out in the real world, she comes off as a lightweight who is totally lacking in message, charisma, and public speaking skills. All she can do is regurgitate the stupid dem. talking points of the day. I’d like to see her try and pull off a major speech like Sarah barracuda did with out benefit of a tele-prompter.
Heh
I see the con slime of humanity remain full of…Palin. And samkan too? I take back the nice thoughts I had about you.
Let’s see what we have here for the non supersticious.
““She did a good job delivering a speech in a tough arena,”
WHAT? Tough arena? Palin was among her own. She had a crowd that WANTED an angel of darkness. That her delivery was half church lady mixed with school marm just sweetened it for them.
“no real solutions”
But of course not. Business wants to guarantee that government cannot be the solution.
So THEY can charge us for solutions.
“Sebelius put Palin “on the radical fringe of even the Republican Party on reproductive issues and privacy issues.”
Spot on. Palin and the people who love her are a dangerous minority. They need chased back up the steps of their churches and kept there.
If the speech writers had written that Americans should bathe naked in Post Toasties and Milk, Palin would have read with the same enthusiasm.
BlueJay…. Oh noooooo.. you are withholding nice thoughts because I have opinions you don’t agree with? I’m crushed…. NOT! If you are ever homeless.. come see me.. I’ll still help you out.. we do not discriminate.
I’m assuming you were kansassam. I may be mistaken.
In any case, I would accept no help of any kind from any follower of the evil Sarah Palin.
“Once again Kansas Governor Sebelius from Ohio marginalizes herself in Kansas politics.”
Actually, what she said was true. Especially about the idea that Palin could pick up disgruntled Hillary Clinton supporters.
And it is people who have the politics of Sarah Palin, not people like Kathleen Sebelius, who have marginalized Kansas politics. And that is a fact.
My own mother was moved by McCain’s speech.
But Palin on the ticket means she likely will not vote or must vote for Obama.
BlueJay Posted September 5, 2008 at 7:34 am
“My own mother was moved by McCain’s speech.
But Palin on the ticket means she likely will not vote or must vote for Obama.
BlueJay,
Tell me it isn’t true! Your mother is as big a idiot as you. I have confidence she will come to her sense’s if she is smart enough to have been moved by McCain’s speech.
“Sebelius takes on Hurricane Sarah”
One legged man. A$$ kicking contest.
BTW, Drudge reports that newest Rasmussen poll will show Sarah Pail more popular than McCain or Obama.
Sebelius is continuing to embarrass Kansans and is doing so while looking smaller and smaller politically.
She is, and has been, mostly a ‘pretty skirt’, at least in some folks opinion…though I don’t see it.
Pretty soon she will be the poster image for a bunch of blond jokes.
BlueJay..
I truly hope you never need it. And Sarah Palin is not evil… not agreeing with you does not make someone evil. I don’t agree with you most of the time and I’m not evil.. but you are welcome to your opinions and normally I have nothing to say about them.
outlander,
“BTW, Drudge reports that newest Rasmussen poll will show Sarah Pail more popular than McCain or Obama.”
Well, if that is the case, outlander, then why not let her face real live reporters in an unscripted setting? If she’s got the goods, let her prove it.
Anybody who wants to be President should not be allowed to cower in an undisclosed location.
She doesn’t want to answer questions CF.
Like just how it is she promises to be an advocate for parents of special needs kids when as Governor of Alaska she cut the budget for special needs kids by 62%.
She’s typical of her party and her church. All blow and no show.
I love it. “Cowering in an undisclosed location”. Puhleeese.
Don’t worry CF, I feel quite certain that we will see plenty of Gov Palin. Plenty.
“Sharah is pro life and considers private matters to be just that.”
Bull. Palin made a big deal about how continuing the pregnancy was her daughter’s choice . . . but Palin wants to take away that choice from the rest of us. More hypocrisy from the RR . . . who demand that their own privacy be respected, but are determined to poke their ugly noses into everyone else’s bedrooms.
The CONservatives are just drooooling over the thought of having a Far Right Wingnut a heart-beat from the Oval Office… And thats one of the best reasons of any for voting aginst McCain… whoever you vote for…
George said “Sharah is pro life and considers private matters to be just that.”
Except private things that happen in my womb? Then the government can tell me what to do?
I don’t get it…you want the government out of your life so you don’t have to pay taxes? But the government should be allowed to tell us what to do with our bodies, who we love and live with, and what kind of church we should go to?
That is illogical!
outlander,
Of course we’ll “see” her. But image isn’t enough; we want to HEAR her respond to real questions, in real time, without a script.
The McCain campaign seems to be indicating that she will take NO questions from the media in subsequent appearances up until the election. And in a democratic society, a politician who doesn’t take questions isn’t acceptable.
That is, after alll, outlander, what we demand of MEN who are running from political office. Or does the Republican double-standard regarding Sarah Palin give her impunity to lie and never have to answer for her words?
AMEN to that Nunyer!!!
“She mastered the words written by the Bush speechwriters”
Read: I wish I had Bush speechwriters…
I had some nit write mine, I could give a speech like that if I had Bush speechwriters, why did she have Bush speechwriters, I want Bush speechwriters, I want to be vice president…..
A reporter might also ask Palin just what books it is that she wanted banned when she was mayor of Wasilla Alaska.
They must have been pretty awful stuff? Palin threatened to fire the town librarian when she refused to remove the books from the library.
Of course, BJ is misrepresenting the facts. Again. Gov Pain did not cut the budget for special needs kids by 62%. She didn’t reduce the budget for special needs children at all.
What she did reduce was a legislative appropriation for a facility expansion that served delinquent and special needs children from 5 million to 3.9 million. Which is 22%.
Yeah, that’s a little different.
and — Kathleen Sebelius has NEVER used a speechwriter, right? lol
What a stupid attack.
Beyond that, the teleprompter was not working!
Some of Sara Palin’s speech was ad-lib.
Also, she WAS involved, in actually writing that speech.
David Axelrod is the man behind Obama, writing Obama’s speeches and running Obama’s campaign. Axelrod hates issues and is famous for a type of advertising called: “Astroturf” —(As opposed to “grass roots”.
Syphilis has gone off the deep end if she thinks anybody in Kansas gives a rats a$$ what she thinks about a speech. I’d listen to somebody that knows how to give one, but even with Bush speechwriters she couldn’t perform. You want to talk about giving a speech in front of a ‘receptive’ audience? Ummmmm, hello McFly??? What the hell do you call the DNC she spoke to. I’ve never seen a raving crowd go into a deep sleep so fast.
Keep talking Syphilis. Every time you open your mouth you marginalize yourself even more.
Bluejay- A reporter might also ask Palin just what books it is that she wanted banned.
Dreams from my father….
She didn’t want it banned, just put in the fiction section where it belonged…..
Well, Damn —- Looks like its gonna be the Franklin and ____???? show again today!!
Gotta go get some things done!! Y’all have a nice day!!
TGIF!!!
OK, Y’all — Put this one in your TISTF pipe and smoke on it….
The Republicans are historically ANTI-Union…. But, Ms. Palin’s husband is a Proud Member of a Labor Union!! Hmmmm…. Does McCain know about that yet??
And Outlander, you better go re-check your numbers on those services to special needs children in Alaska… Maybe check out the http://www.alaska.gov web site….
“But the government should be allowed to tell us what to do with our bodies, who we love and live with, and what kind of church we should go to?”
Earth to janabanana….
The goverment makes no law against who you love and and live with. goverment makes no law about what kind of church you go to. Nobody is proposing to change this.
The government does make laws regarding your own personal body including druge use, prostitution and suicide. Sorry, if you don’t like it but mose people think those laws are good for civilized society.
Abortion is different from even these areas because it impacts the life of another human being with a heart beat, brain wave activity and who can feel pain.
Sorry, but right wing nuts didn’t make up indisputable biological science as it pertains the the humanity of the unborn. However, they do try to enforce civilized moral behavior that values all human life.
Obama threatens radio talk show hosts, Obama’s supporters are urged to threaten advertisers.
Obama is affraid of the William Ayers terrorist story hitting the mainstream press:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/obama_campaign_confronts_wgn_r.html
Yah, that Obama, a real 1st Amendment guy, huh?
That’s very amusing biased.
Perhaps you would like to share the list of books that Sarah Palin wanted banned?
Sebellius is complaining about “partisan attacks”? Oh puhleeze. Weren’t both conventions a series of “partisan attacks”? What does our clueless gov think they would do at a convention, praise the other guys?
Franklin,
And the McCain campaign is so afraid of what Sarah Palin MIGHT say without script or teleprompter that they refuse to let her answer questions in public.
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/04/when-will-palin-meet-the-press.aspx
Bluejay- Perhaps you’d like to share with us a list of the Ones shady affiliations, terrorist friends and criminal associates. or a much shorter less exhaustive list of……
his accomplishments and qualifications.
CF2K,
Can’t stand it can you that the lady is more than bright enough to avoid the left wing’s transparent traps.
Your parasite ‘reporters’ are out-done with this gal.
I don’t think that the case for Palin wishing to ban books is very strong.
Here ya go Outlander…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/3/163229/8631/847/584963
Posted without comment.
biased?
Radical affiliations?
Sarah Palin might be asked about those.
This forum KNOWS I am no great fan of Barack Obama. But he HAS been very thoroughly scrutinized these last several months.
Sarah Palin is in seclusion. Perhaps she will come out and talk about the radical church that she belonged to?
You see biased, I am less troubled by what I know about Obama than what I don’t know about Sarah Palin.
Last night, Senator Obama was interviewed by right wing icon Bill O’ Reilly.
WHY is Sarah Palin hiding (or more likely hidden) from the press?
Daily Kooks.
beber — allegedly she fired the Wasilla Librarian for refusing to remove “certain” books from the town Library…
I do not have a link for that one. Sorry!
The old gray mare Sebelius appears to have female penis envy.
To wet to mow this morning, BlueJay?
Before my first cup o’ coffee. .. oh well.
Aside from securing the base, being telegenic and a fair speaker, IMHO, Sarah Palin has two purposes:
1. As a “bright shiny object.” Keep people talking about her and her largely obscure record, and it distracts from the reality of Obama v. McCain. She’ll be dutifully trotted out when necessary, and kept under wraps the rest of the time.
2. As a foil. The political strategy, as ludicrous as it seems, has been to use her liabilities to attack Obama. In other words, the more her qualifications come into question, the better it is, because it keeps the “experience” issue alive. One would think this is an insane strategy–and it is–but contradictory arguments are also a classic propaganda strategy (see Orwell). One sees this (again) with the obsessive focus on her minor “executive experience,” ignoring the fact that the presidential race is between two career legislators. If you can’t convince them, confuse them!
Beyond that, Ms. Palin will be used to gin up the usual resentments and scapegoating on social issues on the stump, in the way (and toward the end) that Thomas Frank has detailed. Whether it will help McCain or hurt him remains to be seen.
“very thoroughly scrutinized these last several months”
Then lets see the lists.
The adoring press hasn’t given you one?
We knew more about Palin in 6 hours than we know about the One after 19 months.
Gives rage an “A+” for one of the few people that spell “shiny” correctly.
2. “because it keeps the “experience” issue alive.”
weak.
that could have been done with about 4-5 million different people. Didn’t take a “Palin” to do that.
To what lists do you refer biased?
I know of no rights that Senator Obama wants taken away or books that he would like banned.
Senator Palin has not explained why it is that she thinks a woman has no right to choose even if she is raped.
She has also not detailed why she threatened to fire a librarian who would not remove books from the shelves.
And particularly shady is Sarah Palin’s abuse of her office to pursue personal vendetta and her radical, one might even say subversive church.
Regular
Posted September 5, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink
Gives rage an “A+” for one of the few people that spell “shiny” correctly.
_______
He’s still a looser.
I love to see the left so agitated early in the morning. Palin is sure doing her job. It sounds as if the left might need new speech writers. Or maybe they need new messages to share with the public such as the GOP has. The empty suited One and Joe seem to have lost their way.
BJ you really should check your facts and then stop putting your faith in lies. The library story is just one more piece of fiction to add with your troopergate ’scandal’. A trooper fired a taser at his 10 year old stepson and then threathened to kill the grandfather who stepped in to help him. His boss who refused to fire him for this was fired along with him.
Well a Derby policeman got fired for firing a taser by accident at a civilian. Guess you should go to their next city council meeting and stand up for that guy.
You really are a joke but it’s a little early to start with the big laughs so please tone it down a little.
“beber — allegedly she fired the Wasilla Librarian for refusing to remove “certain” books from the town Library…
I do not have a link for that one. Sorry!” — Charles
She may have. Most of those stories are sourced originally from the Wasilla newspaper. I don’t even know what it’s called. Then they matastisized.
The Daily Kos… isn’t that the blog that was trying to say Palin’s daughter was the mother of Sarah’s down syndrome baby and that Sarah Palin faked her pregnacy to protect her daughter?
He’s still a looser.
Looser than what? I try not be too tight (well, except maybe in my guitar playing and, there, alas, you are quite correct).
OK: I’m not agitated. Here’s why.
Has anyone pointed out to you that the state of Alaska has no state sales, income or property taxes (dedicated to state government) and the entire budget of the state comes mainly from taxes on the oil industry and federal contributions? Also, of all states, Alaska is the number one per-capita recipient of federal dollars? Palin is a welfare hockey mom.
In addition, her claims to have given money back to citizens are part of a program written into the constitution which mandates oil revenues will be shared with citizens. Each Alaska citizen has gotten a check since 1983. No wonder Alaskans are for drilling. The more the take, the more they make.
Can you imagine a state in which the government does not have to raise taxes from its citizenry? This is Palin’s experience. As far as being mayor, she requested and received millions in earmark funding. Anyone would be a success with millions in free federal money, most of it thanks to Sen. Ted Stevens.
I also suspect she turned on Ted Stevens at the first available opportunity. I’m still checking that out.
Sebelius has been nothing more than an empty suit as Kansas Governor. She has not and does not engage in true political debates because she is not able to do so. She sticks to the demo spin and nothing else.
She has had the opportunity to show what she was capable of twice now and both times she has blown it. She was dull and boring with the speech that was written for her.
It is interesting to note that Sebelius could not find anything of major substance to say against Palin.
Sebelius should just run her lame duck two years as governor and go back to Ohio.
Bluejay you are sure hung up on this ladies church. Do you have a problem with freedom of religion?
An example of freedoms Obama’s plans to take away; his plan to implement the fairness doctrine so called. This is taking away the right to free speech from his non-supporters. I think that is the way the communist countries do it. Silence the opposition!
“metastasized ?”
As in the cancer, metastasized.
Sebelius also missed the boat saying that Palin offered no solutions.
That is McCains job at this point. Just like it is Obamas job and not Bidens. Biden had nothing to offer in his speech.
As far as being mayor, she requested and received millions in earmark funding. Anyone would be a success with millions in free federal money.
I wish wichita could get a mayor to get some.
money.
Chas
Posted September 5, 2008 at 9:00 am | Permalink
beber — allegedly she fired the Wasilla Librarian for refusing to remove “certain” books from the town Library…
I do not have a link for that one. Sorry!
——————-
If you can’t find a link then it is just left wing gossip. As smart as you are I’m surprised you didn’t know that.
Do you have a link okobserver?
Divorce cases can be very nasty. I know whereof I speak.
You present (since Sarah Palin is hiding and won’t talk) one side of a nasty divorce case.
I’d like to hear both sides. Since Sarah Palin has clearly abused her office in the past, I have little faith in the words of her sister.
In a divorce fight, you use everything and everything you can. MOST people don’t have a sibling as head of state.
My source is the same one you and Chas use. Hearsay. Is it ok for the left but not the right?
Well a Derby policeman got fired for firing a taser by accident at a civilian. Guess you should go to their next city council meeting and stand up for that guy.
Stupid people like you just can’t grasp the issue. It has nothing to do with the trooper did or didn’t do. Obviously. Duh.
Like anyone accused of unethical acts, Ms. Palin deserves a legal presumption of innocence. That means that wrongdoing has not been proven (at least not yet). However, what are we to make of the numerous contacts made to a state official above the appropriate personnel level, repeated hinting that the relevant lower-level officials would not handle the matter properly, and something needed to be done about it?
At best that’s clear evidence of a glaring conflict of interest, of not going through proper channels, and of using extremely poor judgment.
Another Palin thread????
The left is REALLY worried, it appears.
Dat’s toooooooooo bad.
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 9:15 am | Permalink
He’s still a looser.
This is where I usually come back with, “you’re just a jaelous babby, grow up!”
But I try to keep the trolling down on friday.
Heh,heh..
Right, GMC: Rhonda Holman is “the left.”
Hehehe, talk about “worried.”
“An example of freedoms Obama’s plans to take away; his plan to implement the fairness doctrine so called. This is taking away the right to free speech from his non-supporters”
Well okobserver that is simply not true.
I’ll afford that you are in error and not attempting to deceive.
The Fairness doctrine merely maintains that speech is not monopolized by any political view.
It allows for equal time.
Are you opposed to equal time?
And as to Palin’s church? I’d just like to know more about it. Certainly Barack Obama has been much explored on his church. Here again, equal time.
Sebelius has more experience than Palin. Been in office longer. Better educated than Palin. Better international experience than Palin. I guess the Paleocons are having a hard time on this.
“The record clearly indicates a serious and concentrated pattern of unacceptable and at times, illegal activity occurring over a lengthy period, which establishes a course of conduct totally at odds with the ethics of our profession,” Col. Julia Grimes, then head of Alaska State Troopers, wrote in March 1, 2006, letter suspending Wooten for 10 days. After the union protested it, the suspension was reduced to five days.
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She warned that if he messed up again, he’d be fired.
“This discipline is meant to be a last chance to take corrective action,” Grimes wrote. “You are hereby given notice that any further occurrences of these types of behaviors or incidents will not be tolerated and will result in your termination.”
It’s nearly impossible to know whether other complaints have come in about Wooten in the last two years. His personnel file is confidential. But the fact he remains on the force is an indication that he hasn’t had the sort of trouble that Grimes warned against.
Grimes declined to comment, as did various troopers involved in the investigation.
‘… NOT WITHOUT A BLEMISH’
As the investigation got under way in 2005, Wooten was in the midst of a bitter divorce from Palin’s sister, Molly McCann. The couple was fighting over custody of their two young children. Accusations flew from both sides.
Troopers eventually investigated 13 issues and found four in which Wooten violated policy or broke the law or both:
• Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.
• He illegally shot a moose.
• He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.
• He told others his father-in-law would “eat a f’ing lead bullet” if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce.
http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html
———————————
It would appear Trooper Wooten was a bad boy who should have been fired a long time ago but the union ’saved’ his job for him.
The “Fairness doctrine” if attempted, will be knocked down as unconstitutional, because it is.
There is no such thing as a constitutional ‘right’ regulating free speech according to what marketing naturally brings forth.
Deal with it Leftists.
The matter is ongoing okobserver.
Palin has lawyered up.
Why are you convicting the trooper before the matter is fully investigated?
Bluejay you are just simply ‘wrong’. The fairness doctrine would take over a private enterprise business and using government control force them to air something free when they are selling their space to make a profit.
The left has Air America and can’t make it profitable enough to stay in business so now as good dems they are they want to come around with their collective hands out to force the rest of us to listen to their hate radio.
Well BJ dream on. It won’t happen.
It would appear Trooper Wooten was a bad boy who should have been fired a long time ago but the union ’saved’ his job for him.
So? Even if true, how it relevant to anything?
“The couple was fighting over custody of their two young children. Accusations flew from both sides. ”
And there is the story for now.
If you’ve never been in a custody fight? I can assure you that either side will use anything they can.
Sarah Palin’s sister had the head of State on her side. Did she abuse that advantage remains to be seen.
prairiedoggin’ it- Sebelius has more experience than Palin. Been in office longer. Better educated than Palin. Better international experience than Palin. I guess the Paleocons are having a hard time on this.
_________
And still couldn’t pull off a speech written for her…
What a snoozer….
and the “Paleocons” are laughing the butts off at all the poor jaelous (sorry rage couldn’t help myself) “Sebilianites”
Sorry, your guy picked “an old white guy” that strangely enough DOES look like the guys on dollar bills….
So much for the Ones “change”……
The same argument could be used to excuse Palin’s actions if she used one of her hunting rifles to murder Wooten.
That okay with you granny? The guy threatened her family, right? End justifies the means?
“As in the cancer, metastasized.” — regular.
You got me, Regular. I’m s-o-o-o ashamed.
BJ in case you missed it there was a list of 4 allegations the trooper was found guilty of. He tased his 10 year old stepson. He drank on the job. He threathened to kill his father in law.
In the real world any of these would be grounds to terminate. In the leftist liberal world they are simply ‘an ongoing investigation’.
Wonder why he ran off to an undisclosed location for an ‘unplanned’ vacation. Could be because now the whole world knows what he did and not the lies he had been telling.
Have sweet union dream BJ!
I don’t think you are coming across well here okobserver.
You have lied or are willfully misinformed as to the Fairness doctrine and you have managed all on your own to settle a child custody case you know almost nothing about.
In the real world any of these would be grounds to terminate. In the leftist liberal world they are simply ‘an ongoing investigation’.
No, grannie, in the real world, the investigation ended quite some time ago, Wooten was disciplined, and it ended.
The “ongoing investigation” is of Palin’s actions after the fact.
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 9:32 am | Permalink
The same argument could be used to excuse Palin’s actions if she used one of her hunting rifles to murder Wooten.
That okay with you granny? The guy threatened her family, right? End justifies the means?
——————————
What is your point Rage? You and I agree on this one. BJ made it an issue when he brought it up a few days ago. He seemed to think it was her achilles heel.
He and Chas make unfounded allegations continully and you want to fault me for responding?
The Fairness Doctrine is way off topic, so I’ll leave one that alone.
“Wonder why he ran off to an undisclosed location ”
I am wondering the same about Sarah Palin.
Hidden from the press as she is, rumor has it she has rushed back to Alaska.
Is it to better prepare herself for a haphazard run for national office?
Or consult with her attorneys to defend her actions in a State office?
Meow! Kathy’s lashing out because her ivy league frat boy teased her but didn’t invite her to the prom. And now she’s jealous because another girl is more popular and is going to be prom queen. Meow, Kathy, meow.
“The left has Air America and can’t make it profitable enough to stay in business ” — Ok
Air America is in business, and in cities where it is available, though not popular, regularly draws more listeners than religious programming and some other specialized types of programming. I admit, it’s not very good. I don’t listen to it even though I have it on XM radio.
And what you Pukes fail to realize is that normal people, the more than half who will wind up voting for Obama, don’t obsess with political radio. They listen to sports talk, which regularly draws more listeners than conservative talk radio, or country music, which draws many times more listeners than conservative talk radio.
Currently, I am listening to Napster. It’s a comedy program about how to skin a conservative.
BlueJay
Posted September 5, 2008 at 9:36 am | Permalink
I don’t think you are coming across well here okobserver.
You have lied or are willfully misinformed as to the Fairness doctrine and you have managed all on your own to settle a child custody case you know almost nothing about.
—————–
Blowhard you really are a confused person aren’t you. You need to check your facts on the fairness doctrine. You are simply put – wrong!
You are the one that said she abused her office to have this trooper fired. I heard it from YOU. Simply put – I actually looked up the facts of the situation.
You are looking bad here.
What is your point Rage? You and I agree on this one.
On what? That there’s a legal presumption of innocence? Okay.
But facts that have come out of this are subject to non-legal judgments.
BJ
It is “unfair” that 8-track tapes are now obsolete.
The government should mandate that any artist who produces any music must produce one 8-track tape for every CD produced!
For that matter, the government should mandate that the same artist also produce a vinal record for every CD produced!
Obama’s preacher was in the news more than obama for a couple months, the only thing we know about Palin’s preacher, we’ve had to dig up for ourselves. This woman needs thoroughly vetted by the media.
And, she needs to be asked some pointed questions. Watch her not take reporters questions at every opportunity, and appear at staged ‘town hall’ meetings.
Our Governor is a LOSER!!!!!
Beber you just made my point for me. Public radio is just that – public. Radios have select buttons and on/off buttons. The left can use them.
If I didn’t like sports radio and wanted to hear cooking shows instead would the fairness doctrine make the station give me as many cooking shows in a day as they so sports talk?
Your boy BJ doesn’t understand the concept.
Enough said. Palin’s success is the topic here.
“You are the one that said she abused her office to have this trooper fired. I heard it from YOU. ”
I never said any such thing. The trooper was not fired.
The matter under investigation is whether Sarah Palin abused her position as Governor to lean on the trooper’s boss and fire him.
BJ- How DID the One wind up with about $3.5 mil in earmarks from the lobbying efforts of Joe Bidens son?
BJ you are such a buffoon and your memory lapses are getting serious. I am concerned. I won’t take the time to look up your comments on the subject. I heard it first from you.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=446#comments
Finally someone from the mainstream media has the cajones to come out and tell the truth.
There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans in power.
Please share this video with everyone and spread the message.
I’ll hold you to that okobserver.
For the record, on this thread I did not even specifically mention the scandal that has come to be known as “troopergate”.
I did mention that Sarah Palin was under investigation for abuse of her office as Governor.
I’m honored, I guess, that you think that you heard something first from me. Though I am fairly certain you are in error as to what you heard as you have amply demonstrated here.
I saw Palin signing autographs last night, haven’t seen Obama doing the same. Who’s the Celebrity now?
Well. Evidently “Hurricane Sarah” will be blowing north to Alaska for an abbreviated version of “spending more time with her family.”
“CHUCK TODD:Well Ron, We’ve been able to see that there are a few folks who are saying [Palin is] actually going to hole up in Alaska for a little, she’s got to see her son off who’s going to be deployed to Iraq, so we may not see her on the campaign trail for a little while.
RON ALLEN: Yes she hasn’t been home for a long time, and she’s obviously got some business to deal with there.”
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/palin-leaves-campaign-trail-flees-north/
Somebody needs to remind Sarah Palin that in a democracy, being a leader is as much about answering tough questions and being accountable to The People as it is about making “tough choices” as Governor.
If Sarah Palin can’t stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen.
BJ- I have a few questions for you.
1. Why did the One (who SAYS he detests lobbyist) pick Joe Biden as his VP? Joe Bidens son is a BIG time lobbyist.
2. Why did the One (who SAYS he is for change) pick Joe Biden as his VP? Joe Biden has been a washington good ole boy for 35 years.
3. Why did the One (who SAYS he has experience) pick Joe Biden as his VP? Joe Biden said, (on national TV) that the One is not ready…
no wonder bitter ole kathys mad…..
#
CF2K
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:06 am | Permalink
Well. Evidently “Hurricane Sarah” will be blowing north to Alaska for an abbreviated version of “spending more time with her family.”
“CHUCK TODD:Well Ron, We’ve been able to see that there are a few folks who are saying [Palin is] actually going to hole up in Alaska for a little, she’s got to see her son off who’s going to be deployed to Iraq, so we may not see her on the campaign trail for a little while.
RON ALLEN: Yes she hasn’t been home for a long time, and she’s obviously got some business to deal with there.”
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/palin-leaves-campaign-trail-flees-north/
Somebody needs to remind Sarah Palin that in a democracy, being a leader is as much about answering tough questions and being accountable to The People as it is about making “tough choices” as Governor.
If Sarah Palin can’t stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen.
———————
Don’t get worked up Mousy Tongue, CF2K.
Palin has only been on the campaign trail less than a week.
BlueJay,
For a list of the books Palin wanted banned, here’s a link. Not sure of the veracity, but it’s a pretty standard fundy list.
http://www.librarian.net/stax/2366/sarah-palin-vp-nominee/#comment-119807
Re: my previous post. The list may not be the real deal. Still digging…
I think you’ll find some of those books were published after Palin was mayor. I know a similar objection has been made to similar lists. Anyway, I’m not researching this one. I don’t think you can get to the bottom of it. The question should be: was the librarian fired, and if so, what was the cause?
Right up there with Capn’A? From your source-
“The list of banned books is inaccurate. Several of the titles listed above, most notably the Harry Potter books, had not been published yet in 1996 when Sarah Palin attempted to fire the librarian.”
Do the math.
Her first act in Washington will be to screen the Library of Congress for objectionable books.
Maybe an enterprising reporter can just ask Sarah which books she took exception to?
CFak47- “being accountable to The People as it is about making “tough choices”
___________
Someone needs to remind the One, voting “Present” 130 times is NOT making a “tough choice.” It’s the chickenshit way of not making any choice at all….
Biden,”UHmm, Mr. President, the Mexican army has just crossed the border into texas…..Sir, they have tanks….”
the One, “Uh, and, such….”
“Sir?…”
the One, “Uh……Present…”
Thank you mr. presididnt
Does Hurrican Sarah blow?
Pre said, up front, she couldn’t vouch for its authenticity. That said, some good advice from the same site, from “Charlie”:
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:49
The list cited by “Andrew AuCoin” is not from Sarah Palin. It actually comes from http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html. It’s a compendium of all books banned anywhere in the United States.
Folks, we need to keep our eye on the prize here. Every time we pass on false or inaccurate allegations, we’re helping Sarah Palin (and John McCain) look better, not worse. Please fact check before you share a rumor.
I’ve certainly gotten things wrong before (and will again, being human), but we need to be extra careful about these things. We actually care about the truth; let’s not give them an excuse to pretend otherwise.
From MSNBC BLOGS:
‘In 1996, according to the Frontiersman, Wasilla’s library director Mary Ellen Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. Emmons said, “This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy. … She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.” Palin said in response, “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature.” [Frontiersman, 12/18/96]‘
There was no threat, there were no banned books. Constituents complained, she asked, and she was answered.
There’s a list circulating on the Internet claiming to be the list of books Palin asked to be banned. It’s a fake; some of the books on the list had not even been published in 1996 when this incident occurred. The list is from http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html, and is a list of all books that have ever been banned anywhere in America.
I found the real lists of books that were under a ban attempt, for all of America here:
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/challengesinitiator.cfm
The American Library Association.
Anohter Lib rumor shot down in flames
The conspiracy Libs are holding true to their method and lying. :D
Sarah needs time off to visit her son because he’s shipping out soon? Maybe Biden will do the same? Oh, it’s because she’s a mom.
“Someone needs to remind the One, voting “Present” 130 times is NOT making a “tough choice.” It’s the chickenshit way of not making any choice at all….” — biased
Alright, you noxious pissant: Your statement is true but your conclusion is wrong. Obama cast thousands of meaningful votes as an Illinois State Senator. Many writers have claimed that the practice of voting present is very common in Illinois.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3os.htm
hehehehe
Looks like the left-wing-media might be hiding from Palin!
Anohter Lib rumor shot down in flames
Jeebus! From your own post:
In 1996, according to the Frontiersman, Wasilla’s library director Mary Ellen Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. Emmons said, “This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy. … She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.”
Was Ms. Emmons fired? This has been alleged.
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:21 am | Permalink
Pre said, up front, she couldn’t vouch for its authenticity. That said, some good advice from the same site, from “Charlie”:
September 3rd, 2008 at 1:49
The list cited by “Andrew AuCoin” is not from Sarah Palin. It actually comes from http://www.adlerbooks.com/banned.html. It’s a compendium of all books banned anywhere in the United States.
Folks, we need to keep our eye on the prize here. Every time we pass on false or inaccurate allegations, we’re helping Sarah Palin (and John McCain) look better, not worse. Please fact check before you share a rumor.
———————
Too late, I just shot down the latest rumor from the local Libs on the book ban.
Your buddies are looking sheepish right now and like the lying rumor mongers they are.
The interview mentioned in my post is from Palin’s local newspaper. :)
Evidently the Librarian was not fired.
You can read an Anchorage newspaper account here and form your own opinion from the story.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/510219.html
What I got out of it, is that the town wanted change and then some cried about it after there was some. :D
Note regular was only capable of research after I asked the proper question.
WASILLA — Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so.
According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go.
Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15
Ignoring the obvious, since when is a friggin’ librarian required to “support” the mayor?
#
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:26 am | Permalink
Anohter Lib rumor shot down in flames
Jeebus! From your own post:
In 1996, according to the Frontiersman, Wasilla’s library director Mary Ellen Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. Emmons said, “This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy. … She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.”
——————–
Don’t lawyer weasel what I posted by giving your abridged version. Note the discussion about the discussion being rhetorical and realistic. It was a discussion.
Nice try, but you don’t even get the cigar stubble on that one.
She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.” Palin said in response, “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature.” [Frontiersman, 12/18/96]‘
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=home&position=emailed
According to the above, the librarian was given a letter notifying her she would be fired, which, according to the link, occurred four days prior to the city council meeting where then Mayor Palin asked the librarian about her attitude about removing books from the library. Subsequently, the link reports that the Mayor relented, and allowed the librarian to keep her job. Ms Emmons (the librarian) subsequently resigned her position prior to Ms Palin beginning her second term as Mayor.
The contents of the link further say that there is no evidence any books were removed from the library collection following the interchange at the City Council meeting where the question was asked, a question that at the time in an interview with the local paper Mayor Palin characterized as rhetorical.
“It’s true that Obama voted “present” dozens of times, part of the thousands of votes he cast in an eight-year span in Springfield. Illinois lawmakers commonly vote that way on a variety of issues, and he has countered that many of those votes were cast because of technical or legal considerations about the underlying legislation.
Often, Obama voted “present” with large groups of other Democrats to protest what they saw as Republican trickery or abuse of power. Other times, voting that way sends a message that a lawmaker supports a bill’s intent, but has concerns about how the legislation is drafted. Voting this way also can be a way to duck a difficult issue, as McCain charged, although that’s difficult to prove.
There are also cases where legislators vote “present” as part of a strategy. Obama did this on some abortion measures, voting “present” to encourage some wavering legislators to do the same instead of voting “yes”. Their “present” votes had the same effect as “no” votes, so getting them to vote present helped defeat the bills.
Rags- “conclusion is wrong.”
My “conclusion” was spot on pal….
Voting “present” is NOT being accoutable to the people, and NOT making a decision. You can’t even argue that nit.
CFak47 said:
Somebody needs to remind Sarah Palin that in a democracy, “being a leader is as much about answering tough questions and being accountable to The People as it is about making “tough choices””
My “conclusion” is, that we ought to hold a presidential candidate to at LEAST what we expect out of a VICE presidential candidate….
don’t cha think?
If the One can’t make a decision in a STATE legislature, how the HELL is he going to make a decision for our COUNTRY????
coin toss?
#
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:36 am | Permalink
Ignoring the obvious, since when is a friggin’ librarian required to “support” the mayor?
———————–
When the Library uses city funds and the Librarian is paid by City funds?
In a perspective look, the conservation revolved around whether or not the Librarian had a problem with the Library and the museum being integrated as one function.
This is much ado about nothing.
…er conversation not conservation, although book conservation appears to be the main theme. :E
Oooh, this is ugly. From Reggie’s link:
City librarian Mary Ellen Emmons will stay, but Police Chief Irl Stambaugh is on his own, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin announced Friday. The decision came one day after letters signed by Palin were dropped on Stambaugh’s and Emmon’s desks, telling them their jobs were over as of Feb. 13.
The mayor told them she appreciated their service but felt it was time for a change. ”I do not feel I have your full support in my efforts to govern the city of Wasilla. Therefore I intend to terminate your employment …” the letter said.
Palin said Friday she now feels Emmons supports her but does not feel the same about Stambaugh. As to what prompted the change, Palin said she now has Emmons’ assurance that she is behind her. She refused to give details about how Stambaugh has not supported her, saying only that ”You know in your heart when someone is supportive of you.”
The three met briefly at Wasilla City Hall Friday afternoon, and Palin called them twice at Stambaugh’s home before making the decision.
Palin said she asked Emmons if she would support efforts to merge the library and museum operations. Emmons said she would, according to Palin.
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Her conversation with Stambaugh was short, both said. He asked: ”What’s the basis for this?” and she gave no details.
The actions have caused a stir in Wasilla, a town of about 4,600. City Councilman Nick Carney, who has been an outspoken critic of Palin, said he received several calls at his home Thursday night and Friday from outraged citizens.
The sudden personnel shift is part of bigger problem of mismanagement in the city, he said, and may prompt a recall petition.
”Before, I told (people) to hold off, but now all bets are off,” he said. ”I fail to see what good this is doing for Wasilla.”
But Councilwoman Judy Patrick said people voted change when they elected Palin and part of that is changing who is in charge.
Reached at home, Stambaugh said he still doesn’t understand why he’s been fired. ”There never was an appropriate response,” he said. ”How did we not support the administration?”
Now he’s talking to an attorney. While both Stambaugh and Emmons serve at the mayor’s pleasure, Stambaugh said he has a contract that prohibits the city from firing him without cause.
Both Stambaugh and Emmons publicly supported Palin’s opponent, long-time mayor John Stein during the campaign last fall. When she was elected, Palin questioned their loyalty and initially asked for their resignations. But Stambaugh said he thought any questions had been resolved.
Stambaugh has headed the Wasilla Police Department since it was created in 1993. Before that, he worked 22 years with Anchorage Police Department, rising to the rank of captain before retiring.
Emmons, who has been the city’s library director for seven years, would not comment about the affair.
10:38 Should have been to nit beber, sorry bad….
#
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:35 am | Permalink
WASILLA — Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so.
According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go.
Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15
————-
Pahleeze, the Boston Herald?
Let’s try to keep the sources at least local to the area in question. :D
As someone noted, the Vice-Presidential pick of Focus on the Family objects to anyone focusing on her family except when she wants to focus on her family for her own advantage.
Poor
cudgum-chewing 17-year-old hockey stud Levi Johnston (who said on his facebook page “I don’t want kids,” was flown halfway across the continent to stand with his shotgun fiancee for photo-ops. He got on national TV for knocking up his girlfriend. Hey, dude!But it’s “the media” and “the Dems” exploiting the Palin family’s dysfunction?
I suspect the smoldering fuse on the Trophy Veep will be found in the person of the Championship Snow Machine racer. An Alaskan-based blog cryptically posted “Todd Palin has John Edwards disease,” a few days ago. And there’s been a lot of simmering in Juneau about Sarah being “the Stepford Governor.”
http://www.andrewhalcro.com/shadow_governor
I’ve been watching the Moose-Dresser’s video (what there is of it) and suddenly have this craving for some of Mrs. Loopner’s world-famous egg salad.
“Happiness is a Norge full of Tang and egg salad.”
Yes, Rage, I did say I wasn’t sure if it was true or not. That list is actually the run-of-the-mill banned books list. You can find the real list of banned books at the American Library Association.
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bannedbooksweek.cfm
What a great thread topic, if anybody wants to tackle it. :)
Yes, Regular is correct about the article that originally appeared in The Frontiersman, the Mat-Su area newspaper. If my memory had kicked in when it should have, I would’ve remembered it. Blonde moment.
My apologies for posting before checking it out completely.
Sorry, Regular, your explanation about use of City funds doesn’t quite make it for me. From the piece I linked, the librarian along with at least one other City official politically supported Ms Palin’s opponent, which, in my opinion, didn’t sit well with Ms Palin. Kinda reminds me of the situation that existed back in Indiana (long since abolished) when stationed there in the USAF, which as I recall resulted in employees of various state agencies to provide financial support during an election to the administration then in power at the risk of their continued employment if the individual refused.
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:41 am | Permalink
Oooh, this is ugly. From Reggie’s link:
City librarian Mary Ellen Emmons will stay,
———————–
As I said Rage, this is much ado about nothing.
The citizens voted the Mayor in for change and it’s what they received.
All this appears to be the typical, whining Liberal sappers’ convention on trailing the dog with the meatiest bone.
Pahleeze, the Boston Herald?
And “MSNBC blog” is an unimpeachable source?
Pot, meet kettle.
#
avtolle
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:44 am | Permalink
Sorry, Regular, your explanation about use of City funds doesn’t quite make it for me. From the piece I linked, the librarian along with at least one other City official politically supported Ms Palin’s opponent, which, in my opinion, didn’t sit well with Ms Palin. Kinda reminds me of the situation that existed back in Indiana (long since abolished) when stationed there in the USAF, which as I recall resulted in employees of various state agencies to provide financial support during an election to the administration then in power at the risk of their continued employment if the individual refused.
————-
Perhaps similarities avtolle, however, I bet there is more to this than meets the eye.
Perhaps the Librarian was a town power player and had rubbed many people the wrong way.
Who knows what went on, as I said, this is much ado about nothing.
Ol Sarah does sound like a female pit bull a real bitch.
#
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:45 am | Permalink
Pahleeze, the Boston Herald?
And “MSNBC blog” is an unimpeachable source?
Pot, meet kettle.
————-
Touche’.
But at least my post used a local newspaper as its source. :D
As usual, Monkeyhawk Lies. Obama is the ONLY one on either ticket who has asked for focus not to be put on Palin’s family.
==============================================
At a brief press availability in Monroe, Mich., ABC News asked Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., if he had any response to Gov. Sarah Palin’s statement that her unmarried 17-year-old daughter Bristol is pregnant.
“Let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people’s families are off limits,” Obama said, “and people’s children are especially off limits.
“This shouldn’t be part of our politics,” he continued, “It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as governor, or her potential performance as a vice president.
“And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories,” he said. “You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that’s off limits.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-to-media.html
The Herald: “According to news coverage at the time,. .
Monkeyboy- 10:42
————————-
If you can’t destroy the message, destroy the messenger?
Same old liberal crap….
#
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:49 am | Permalink
The Herald: “According to news coverage at the time,. .
————
Over ruled Counselor, rephrase your question and resubmit or sit down. :D
Nope, Regular, not the same piece. Just double-checked the Boston Herald piece linked, and affirmed that it was written by someone working for the Anchorage Daily News, making it local in source, although appearing in the Boston paper.
And just how big is Wasilla anyway?
The Republic Party claims 9,000 but contemporary reports from Alaskan media put the population in the 4,000s. Not that it makes that much of a difference in the big picture. But why the discrepancy at all?
Karl Rove called Wasilla “the 2nd largest city in Alaska,” which of course is a lie. And maybe it’s a bit easier to rationalize the MILFs lobbying Congress for $27 million worth of pork barrel earmarks for her little village. Especially since she
liesclaims she “told Congress ‘thanks but no thanks’” for the Bridge to Nowhere.Maybe the nine-thousand figure includes “greater metropolitan Wasilla,” I dunno.
But it seems to be a continuation of Republic Party propogandists’ propensity to lie even when they don’t have to. Just to keep their hand in.
#
avtolle
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
Nope, Regular, not the same piece. Just double-checked the Boston Herald piece linked, and affirmed that it was written by someone working for the Anchorage Daily News, making it local in source, although appearing in the Boston paper.
———————–
Facts not in evidence of the original source Counselor.
Either resubmit the original copy by the local press or withdraw from the discussion. :D
Sorry, I watched ‘Law and Order’ recently. :D
Thanks, Vaughn.
Here’s the original word-for-word source of my Boston Herald link:
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html
Misspoke–it was their source.
I think Monkeyboy might BE seblius….
in a mask….
Let me say upfront that I don’t know if this is accurate, and I don’t remember where I saw it. I think it was on a Conservative website. But since it isn’t a bash on anybody, I don’t think you’ll mind.
Trig is a Norse word meaning “true” and “brave victory.” The name is in honor of his great uncle, a Bristol Bay fisherman, while the name Paxson comes from the well-known snowmobiling area in Alaska, which Sarah and husband Todd Palin love.
Oh wait: never mind. Brain fart.
http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=49
MonkeyHawk, per the above, population is 7,025.
Regular, which part of “Law and Order” do you like best? I prefer the police part; watching the trial part doesn’t do much for me. :-)
Monkeyboy- “rationalize the MILFs lobbying Congress for $27 million worth of pork barrel earmarks”
I wonder if she know Joe Bidens son…….
Reg,
For the record, I tried to do an advanced search on The Frontiersman website, but the article re: the banned books apparently wasn’t in the archives. If you can find it there, please let me know.
Thanks.
In December 1996, Emmons told her hometown newspaper, the Frontiersman, that Palin three times asked her — starting before she was sworn in — about possibly removing objectionable books from the library if the need arose.
Emmons told the Frontiersman she flatly refused to consider any kind of censorship. Emmons, now Mary Ellen Baker, is on vacation from her current job in Fairbanks and did not return e-mail or telephone messages left for her Wednesday.
When the matter came up for the second time in October 1996, during a City Council meeting, Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla housewife who often attends council meetings, was there.
Like many Alaskans, Kilkenny calls the governor by her first name.
“Sarah said to Mary Ellen, ‘What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?” Kilkenny said.
“I was shocked. Mary Ellen sat up straight and said something along the line of, ‘The books in the Wasilla Library collection were selected on the basis of national selection criteria for libraries of this size, and I would absolutely resist all efforts to ban books.’”
Palin didn’t mention specific books at that meeting, Kilkenny said.
Palin herself, questioned at the time, called her inquiries rhetorical and simply part of a policy discussion with a department head “about understanding and following administration agendas,” according to the Frontiersman article.
TEST OF LOYALTY
Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association’s Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.
Pinell-Stephens also had no record of any phone conversations with Emmons about the issue back then. Emmons was president of the Alaska Library Association at the time.Books may not have been pulled from library shelves, but there were other repercussions for Emmons.
Four days before the exchange at the City Council, Emmons got a letter from Palin asking for her resignation. Similar letters went to police chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton and finance director Duane Dvorak. John Cooper, a fifth director, resigned after Palin eliminated his job overseeing the city museum.
Palin told the Daily News back then the letters were just a test of loyalty as she took on the mayor’s job, which she’d won from three-term mayor John Stein in a hard-fought election. Stein had hired many of the department heads. Both Emmons and Stambaugh had publicly supported him against Palin.
Emmons survived the loyalty test and a second one a few months later. She resigned in August 1999, two months before Palin was voted in for a second mayoral term.
Palin might have become a household name in the last week, but Kilkenny, who is not a Palin fan, is on her own small path to Internet fame. She sent out an e-mail earlier this week to friends and family answering, from her perspective, the question Outsiders are asking any Alaskan they know: “Who is this Sarah Palin?”
Kilkenny’s e-mail got bounced through cyberspace and ended up on news blogs. Now the small-town mom and housewife is scheduling interviews with national news media and got her name on the front page of The New York Times, even if it was misspelled.
VT,
I’m not Regular, but I like it all, watching how it moves from one to the other.
Which L&O do you like best?
SVU used to be my favorite, but I found myself going back to the original last season. I might be lured back to Criminal Intent, now that Jeff Goldblum will be among the cast.
But I’ll take Criminal Minds over all of them, even without Mandy.
#
Rage
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:57 am | Permalink
Thanks, Vaughn.
Here’s the original word-for-word source of my Boston Herald link:
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html
——————————-
Please address the court, when submitting your evidence counselor. (snickers)
And how is this latest rehash of the original 1997 story, different from the one posted at 10:31 on this blog?
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/510219.html
“RFL” confounds us all with –
As usual, Monkeyhawk Lies. Obama is the ONLY one on either ticket who has asked for focus not to be put on Palin’s family.
Yeah.
And where’s the, y’know, “lie?”
Here’s the rest of your post. Which apparently is meant to impeach my 10:42 post…
==============================================
At a brief press availability in Monroe, Mich., ABC News asked Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., if he had any response to Gov. Sarah Palin’s statement that her unmarried 17-year-old daughter Bristol is pregnant.
“Let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people’s families are off limits,” Obama said, “and people’s children are especially off limits.
“This shouldn’t be part of our politics,” he continued, “It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as governor, or her potential performance as a vice president.
“And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories,” he said. “You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that’s off limits.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-to-media.html
Ya got me stumped, “RFL.”
You just throw out “Monkeyhawk LIES!!!” and your cut-and-post is supposed to be evidence?
Of what?
I mean, really.
I have Kilkenny’s comments. They’re both good and bad for Sarah Palin.
#
Predestined
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink
Reg,
For the record, I tried to do an advanced search on The Frontiersman website, but the article re: the banned books apparently wasn’t in the archives. If you can find it there, please let me know.
Thanks.
—————
Dunno,
I read somewhere that the Frontiersman doesn’t update their archived stories very well or just doesn’t make it available online.
I suppose the only way to get those stories, is to do a nexus lexus search or request an inter library loan via Librarian certified copy of the local newspaper.
request an inter library loan via Librarian certified copy of the local newspaper.
Sorry, that isn’t in my job description. :)
avtolle
Posted September 5, 2008 at 10:59 am | Permalink
http://www.cityofwasilla.com/index.aspx?page=49
MonkeyHawk, per the above, population is 7,025.
Regular, which part of “Law and Order” do you like best? I prefer the police part; watching the trial part doesn’t do much for me.
———————–
I like the semi- original version, the one which Jerry Orbach (deceased) plays Detective Lennie Briscoe.
Love his smart-ass comments. :D
And for all the Kansas CONs who’ve been outraged by attacks (real or imagined) against the Palin kids, will you now apologize for all those snarks about Sebelius’s kid’s college project and entrepreneurial effort?
Nah.
Didn’t think so.
Pre, I used to watch and like them all more or less equally. Lately, I don’t really watch any of them often, but I watch the “original” most of all when I watch. My current TV tastes as to regularly watching any continuing series is limited to “Bones” and “House”, with “House” a hands-down favorite.
Now, back to the scheduled programming. :-)
Monkeyboy, did you motor boat her?
you old motor boat’n SOB…..
Regular, when Orbach left, that’s when my attention drifted to other programming. I, too, enjoyed Det. Briscoe’s remarks, which made the show for me.
NOW, back to the scheduled programming.
BTW, Sam Waterson (spelling?) is my favorite actor on the L&O show, the Assistant PA/DA.
biased1
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:16 am | Permalink
Monkeyboy, did you motor boat her?
you old motor boat’n SOB…..
——-
LMAO!
Sam is good!
And now I’ll leave you all to attack each other, while I get back to the duty calling.
Have a good one, all!
I’m loving Monkeyhawk’s focusing on Palin’s family (at the behest of Obama). I’m not protesting at all and neither is McCain-Palin. They are soaking up the substance free attacks from the left.
It just shows.
The libs have nothing.
Off-Topic, but it came up.
The best “Law & Order” is “Criminal Intent” with Vince D’Onofrio.
The guy is the Rod Steiger of his generation. As with Steiger’s career, D’Onofrio has been a superb and versatile actor for years, but you end up walking out of the theater asking yourself, “But which character was Rod Steiger?”
L&O-CI at least got us to recognize the guy.
But if you’re looking for stuff to put on your Netflix queue, go for just about any opportunity to see D’Onofrio work. (You CONs will hate “Steal This Movie” because it’s about Abbie Hoffman. But it’s a phenomenal performance and pretty critical of Hoffman at the same time.)
And especially don’t miss “Happy Accidents,” a delightful Sci-Fi/Rom-Com mash-up of a movie that would have swept the Oscars had it not been released the day after 9/11. Nobody was going to the movies on 9/12 and it died at the box office.
Indepenedents, please note:
Beber is a Democrat.
Is Beber the type of person you would want, as a neighbor?
Its great to see how far under the skin of the cons
the Gov. I can’t understand how she possibly have
been elected a second time. Oh RFL if abortion was
the only issue you guys took up, (I agree that there
are way to many unwanted pregnancies if people just
used birth control the situation would be different.) But the radical right that I have been in contact with in this town go alot farther than just abortion,,,evolution, anti gay anti immigrant
and so on and on
Good article from the WSJ on Palin and how she fought against corruption in Alaska politics.
Take note cosmos, Palin was appointed to the Oil and Gas Commissio, so I would say she could kick your lightweight buttocks all over the place concerning what is really happening with Alaskan petroleum products. :D
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122057381593001741.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
I see Palin’s taken her convention zingers on the road, just repeated the ….kind of like a community organizer…., accompanied with the same expressions.
She really needs a more creative writer.
Just showed Palin’s formet brother in law on the cable news. Don’t think trooper gate’s going away anytime soon.
Obama is a lightweight.
If, by some horrible mistate, Obama wins?
Two years from now Republicans will take BOTH houses of Congress!
Obama is a radical left wing nut!
Palin is far more qualified, than Obama.
This is simply GREAT!!!
Oprah is ‘very afraid’ of Sarah Palin!!! She refuses to have her on her show in spite of the fact her staff recommends it based on the very high number of requests by the public and Oprah fans.
Oprah quote: “I made the decision not to use my show as a platform for any of the candidates. I agree that Sarah Palin would be a fantastic interview, and I would love to have her on after the campaign is over.”
Yet…she has the Obamanation on,(?), hypocrite.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.moose-pictures.com/smore-moose-cartoon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.moose-pictures.com/cartoon_moose_pictures.html&h=434&w=578&sz=55&tbnid=_KtATu6aXBMJ::&tbnh=101&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmoose%2Bcartoon%2Bimages&usg=__37Ix9Uj7UZQ_gJaVSrWsvw9yWzE=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&cd=1
Also showed an e-mail where Palin complained about her brother in law calling her a bitch (didn’t she allege to being the same?)
OMAMA balks at having Palin on the Oprah Winfrey Show
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,417523,00.html
alledge.
Ops,
Here’s the correct link to the image of Oprah and why she’s so afraid of Sarah.
http://www.moose-pictures.com/smore-moose-cartoon.jpg
Dave- But the radical right…evolution, anti gay anti immigrant
and so on and on
Radical stance:
1. Evolution as all fact and taught as such…(you DO know it’s a theory…right???)
2. Support gay marriage……
3. Support illegal immigration…
What will Sarah do?
Jobless rate jumps to 5-year high of 6.1 percent
By JEANNINE AVERSA – 3 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The nation’s unemployment rate zoomed to a five-year high of 6.1 percent in August as employers slashed 84,000 jobs, dramatic proof of the mounting damage a deeply troubled economy is inflicting on workers and businesses alike.
The Labor Department’s report, released Friday, showed the increasing toll the housing, credit and financial crises are taking on the economy.
“All aboard the USS Ship of Fools? Makes me wonder!”
The first time I read this quote, I thought it was dangerously true. Then I really started pondering it and thought how would this apply to our own lives/careers? Let’s look at it again to see how absurd it is.
· You couldn’t get a job at McDonalds and become district manager after 143 days of experience.
· You couldn’t become chief of surgery after 143 days of experience of being a surgeon.
· You couldn’t get a job as a teacher and be the superintendent after 143 days of experience.
· You couldn’t join the military and become a colonel after a 143 days of experience.
· You couldn’t get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor after 143 days of experience.
BUT…..
· ‘From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate.
· That’s how many days the Senate was actually in session and working.
· After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World, and fill the shoes of Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK and Ronald Reagan. 143 days?
We all have to start somewhere. The senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that’s all it is – a start. AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public seems to feel comfortable with this and campaigning for him. We wouldn’t accept this in our own line of work, yet some are OK with this for the President of the United States of America ?
Obama has spent most of his ‘Senate Career’ campaigning, is that considered experience?
Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol.
annie
MOST of those lost jobs were in DEMOCRAT controlled cities and states.
Like corrupt Detroit.
Like corrupt Chicago!
It doesn’t look good for Battyman and Cattywoman!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080905/pl_nm/usa_economy_sentiment_dc_1
Jobs lost increased every month of this year. Foreclosures at record. What’s not to love?
Regular
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:08 am | Permalink
#
Predestined
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink
Reg,
For the record, I tried to do an advanced search on The Frontiersman website, but the article re: the banned books apparently wasn’t in the archives. If you can find it there, please let me know.
Thanks.
—————
Dunno,
I read somewhere that the Frontiersman doesn’t update their archived stories very well or just doesn’t make it available online.
I suppose the only way to get those stories, is to do a nexus lexus search or request an inter library loan via Librarian certified copy of the local newspaper.
_______________________________________________
I believe I read somewhere that the Frontiersman still had a lot of their archive stuff on micro-fishe. (I know I mispessled that, but you get the idea.) This was an issue when they vetted Palin. They weren’t able to be as through as they would have liked to have been. Going through filmed files would have been a little obvious.
Oprah afraid to place Palin in a unscripted setting with a guaranteed highly rated show?
Imagine all the viewers watching the Oprah Winfrey show! The left has been clamoring for Palin to “meet the press”.
Wait a sec, scratch that! We don’t need millions of viewers watching Palin. In effect this would be gift wrapping the McCain-Palin ticket with another huge bounce (after the inevitable convention bounce).
I can see why you guys run on values, performance isn’t your strong suit.
anti_moose
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:51 am | Permalink
What will Sarah do?
Jobless rate jumps to 5-year high of 6.1 percent
————————
Probably tell the democratic congress to get off their dead asses a do something….and remind them that the GOP told them there would be a jump in unemployment when they raised the minimum wage…..
(my 11 yr old told me that)
What will the One do?
1. Write an executive order condeming all employers that have fired people.
2. Write and executive order commemorating his first exutive order.
3. Write and executive order that expresses the sense that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring michelle obama.
#
annie_moose
Posted September 5, 2008 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
I can see why you guys run on values, performance isn’t your strong suit.
———————
“you guys”
What a “yankee” comment. :D
Now we know the ‘rest of the story’, Oprah is a coward, motivated by a personal political agenda.
Having Sarah Palin on would undoubtedly set a viewer record in numbers but…no, she is afraid.
She had Obamanation on though.
We now know where her loyalties lie, and they are not with her viewers or dealing with them honestly.
Oprah is going to help McCain/Palin even more by cowering away from the little gal from Alaska.
From Chicago,
there it’s you’s guys
Jeesh, proof read anything?
sorry boys and girls…
Sara Palin………
Americans until she was named McCain’s running mate this Friday, enjoys wide popularity in her home state and the respect of the broader Jewish community there, Rabbi Yossi Greenberg, Chabad’s representative to Alaska ’s Jewish community told Lubavitch.com.
“She’s established a great relationship with the Jewish community over recent years, and has attended several of our Jewish cultural gala events,” he said.
Palin has shown solidarity with Israel by signing a State of Alaska Resolution recognizing Israel ’s 60th Anniversary and its relationship with Alaska . In the resolution, Governor Palin pointed to Alaska ’s special connection to Israel dating back to Alaska Airlines’ participation in the rescue of 40,000 Yemenite Jews when it airlifted them from Yemen to Tel Aviv during 1948 and 1949.
Drafted by members of the Alaska Legislation and heavily supported by Speaker of the House, Representative John Harris, Governor Palin signed the resolution in the presence of Alaska ’s Jewish community leaders this June.
According to Greenberg, Governor Palin had plans to visit Israel with members of the Jewish community, which did not happen yet because of scheduling conflicts.
On a personal level, Greenberg was “impressed by Governor Palin’s remarks of hope and faith when she gave birth to a child with special needs.” Her words, he observed, were completely aligned with Judaism’s traditional views on embracing the birth of child with special needs as a gift of God, no less than is the birth of any baby.
Though Greenberg was unequivocal in stating that Chabad representatives do not endorse political candidates, and as spiritual leaders reach out to anyone regardless of political affiliation, he did say, “We all feel that the Governor is a remarkable, energetic, and good person.”
Heard on NPR this a.m. that Sebelius, Hillary Clinton, and one other woman Democrat (whom I forgetting) will be campaigning for Obama in Florida in the near future. Interesting response to Palin.
Any predictions on how long the Palin nomination/speech will keep the economy out of the political discussion? I think her impact is already over. Check out unemployment numbers out today, as well as the Dow numbers yesterday.
Unlike Linda, I don’t think Palin’s voice is so unbearable, rather it is her accent. As I observed before she sounds like she escaped from the movie Fargo.
“Is Beber the type of person you would want, as a neighbor?”
Don’t know him, so it would be difficult to say.
VT is correct, “House” amd “Bones” are winners.
bi-assed One,
“Someone needs to remind the One, voting “Present” 130 times is NOT making a “tough choice.” It’s the chickenshit way of not making any choice at all…”
Well, bi-assed One, perhaps somebody needs to remind John Sidney McCain III that missing more votes than any other Senator in the 110th Congress may well construed as a “chickenshit way of not making any choice at all.”
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/
As stupid lines of argument go, bi-assed One, you need to work on being more original, since using this meme shows that you’re still working with last weeks’ spin.
Oh, and while I kind of like the whole “CFak47″ thing, the SKS fits into my budget better, thanks.
Obama’s so desperate he’s trying to move the discussion back to the economy and jobs, and energy solutions today.
Mccain + palin are still repeating conventions speech.
I bet Alaska is heavily populated with jews.
CFdaisy-airsoft2K- Well, bi-assed One, perhaps somebody needs to remind John Sidney McCain III that missing more votes than any other Senator in the 110th Congress may well construed as a “chickenshit way of not making any choice at all.”
———————————–
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
That was the funniest link ever….
Look who is 3,4 and 5….
too funny…
When shrub told you’s guys to go shopping you really did eh?
.S. Consumer Debt Spikes In June
Maurna Desmond, 08.07.08, 11:30 PM ET
Americans are filling their pockets with IOUs instead of shopping receipts.
The New York Federal Reserve reported a higher than expected surge in consumer debt levels in June, as the cash-strapped borrowed more to get by and more failed to make their monthly payments. Separately, retailers reported lower than expected July sales.
Outstanding U.S. consumer credit rose at an annual rate of 6.8% to $2.6 trillion in June versus 3.8% in May. Consumer debt jumped $14.3 billion, far above analysts’ estimates of $6.3 billion. The figure covers most short-term credit extended to individuals, excluding loans secured by real estate.
The monthly shift is significant, but not necessarily cause for alarm.
“A 7.0% increase isn’t a surprise because this year we’re in a tough economic environment, said Ronald J. Mann, a professor at Columbia Law School. “It does suggest a new phase in this cycle where people are being forced to rely on credit cards to fund their cash flow needs.”
What will Sarah do?
S. Consumer Debt Spikes In June
Maurna Desmond, 08.07.08, 11:30 PM ET
Americans are filling their pockets with IOUs instead of shopping receipts.
The New York Federal Reserve reported a higher than expected surge in consumer debt levels in June, as the cash-strapped borrowed more to get by and more failed to make their monthly payments. Separately, retailers reported lower than expected July sales.
Outstanding U.S. consumer credit rose at an annual rate of 6.8% to $2.6 trillion in June versus 3.8% in May. Consumer debt jumped $14.3 billion, far above analysts’ estimates of $6.3 billion. The figure covers most short-term credit extended to individuals, excluding loans secured by real estate.
The monthly shift is significant, but not necessarily cause for alarm.
“A 7.0% increase isn’t a surprise because this year we’re in a tough economic environment, said Ronald J. Mann, a professor at Columbia Law School. “It does suggest a new phase in this cycle where people are being forced to rely on credit cards to fund their cash flow needs.”
What will the One do?
1. Write an executive order condemning all IOUs.
2. Write an executive order commemorating his first executive order.
4. Meet with Joe Bidens son.
3. Write an executive order that expresses the sense that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring michelle obama.
Newest from realpolitics.com
RCP Average 08/29 – 09/04 — 47.0 43.8 Obama +3.2
Gallup Tracking 09/02 – 09/04 2779 RV 48 44 Obama +4
Rasmussen Tracking 09/02 – 09/04 3000 LV 48 46 Obama +2
CBS News 09/01 – 09/03 734 RV 42 42 Tie
Hotline/FD 08/29 – 08/31 805 RV 48 39 Obama +9
CNN 08/29 – 08/31 927 RV 49 48 Obama +1
SAN ANTONIO – Disgraced sprinter Marion Jones has been released from federal prison after completing her sentence for lying about her steroid use.
A federal Bureau of Prisons spokeswoman says Jones was released Friday morning from a halfway house in San Antonio after serving most of her six-month sentence for lying to federal investigators about her use of performance-enhancing drugs.
An admitted steroid dealer testified that he gave Jones a cocktail of drugs before the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney.
She was stripped of her five medals in 2007 after admitting that she used the drugs
What will the One do?
1. Write an executive order condemning all steroids.
2. Write an executive order commemorating his first executive order.
3. Write an executive order that expresses the sense that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring marion jones.
bi-assed One,
Thanks for agreeing it was the FUNNIEST LINK EVER!
After all, John Sidney McCain III missed 117 more votes than the other-front runner, Barack Obama. Given that he’s had much less to do since he’s been the Repuke nominee for months and months, what HAS he been doing with his time, bi-assed One?
John Sidney McCain III really is in a class by himself. He even missed 96 votes more than a guy who almost died of brain tumor and was in a coma. (Real classy of you to laugh at this, by the way.)
Finally, he missed almost TWICE as many votes as the Senator who was at one time the presumptive Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton.
By any measure, when it comes to missing votes in the U.S. Senate, John Sidney McCain III is in a class by himself.
CFdaisy-airsoft2K- Doesn’t change who was 3,4 and 5 HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
I was gunna say it was the pot calling the kettle black but……
bi-assed One,
You kind of don’t really get the point, so let me spell it out for you:
-Criticizing Obama for missing votes as a legislator is, like, kind of a problem for you given that John Sidney McCain III well, missed more votes than ANYBODY in his role as a (wait for it!) LEGISLATOR
-Claming that political experience only counts when it is executive rather than legislative as a way of endorsing Palin and detracting from Obama backfires since, as I noted above, the guy at the top of YOUR ticket is a LEGISLATOR. Are you saying that John McCain’s experience in government doesn’t “count” because he wasn’t a governor? Then put Sarah Palin at the top of your ticket.
And in fact, it wasn’t JUST that he voted “present” rather than “yes” or “no”; it’s that he missed more votes than anybody by a stunning margin.
But of course, bi-assed One, understanding my criticisms requires that you have a modicum of intellectual consistency and that you aren’t a shameless hypocrite. And as your posts demonstrate, you fail on both counts–miserably.
CKdaisy-soft2K- But of course, bi-assed One, understanding my criticisms requires that you have a modicum of intellectual consistency and that you aren’t a shameless hypocrite. And as your posts demonstrate, you fail on both counts–miserably.
What will the One do? (once he’s “present”)
1. Write an executive order condemning biased1.
2. Write an executive order commemorating his first executive order.
3. Write an executive order that expresses the sense that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring CFdaisy-soft2K
4. Call the U.N.
cf2k — “But of course, bi-assed One, understanding my criticisms requires that you have a modicum of intellectual consistency and that you aren’t a shameless hypocrite. And as your posts demonstrate, you fail on both counts–miserably”
Have you ever suspected we’re dealing with cleverly programmed bots, here. At any rate, it doesn’t matter, as many on this board respond like a bot would. I think if you pull stock phrases from say, boxlicker’s posts, you’d find those phrases repeated in a thousand locations. Just wondering. Are we all fools to be arguing all day with robots?
bi-assed One,
Thanks for conceding that you have lost the argument, such as it was.
I do wonder how it will feel for you, bi-assed One, to be governed by an African-American man. Judging by your posts, I’d say “small” and “impotent”–though because it is YOU we’re talking about, it would be better to say “even smaller” and “more impotent.”
No beber, no stamp for you….
—–
And in fact, it wasn’t JUST that he voted “present” rather than “yes” or “no”; it’s that he missed more votes than anybody by a stunning margin.
—–
The point was…..
V O T I N G ” P R E S E N T “, I S N O T M A K I N G A T O U G H D E C I S I O N ….
Beber,
To some extent, yes: we are fools to go on dealing with the Lim-baughts. But the only thing worse would be to cede to them.
There, too, they’re a lot like zombies as well: intellectually and morally dead (if not physically), and therefore difficult to kill.
biased1 I am glad you injected the new minimum wage increase here. I also told the libs here it would raise the unemployment rate and would hurt most the untrained just entering the workforce and the seniors who are slower and thus less productive.
Libs still think that they can force businesses to do their will. Over tax them, raise the wages they must pay their employees, make them pay more for health care coverage to cover those to lazy to get a job that has benefits. Business will always have the last word and we are hearing it loud and clear today.
Weren’t Obama’s “present” votes something like 1 percent of the total he cast in 10 years? Links have been posted documenting this.
bi-assed One,
You’re flat out wrong: depending on context, voting “present” may be a VERY difficult decision, just as voting “yes” or “no” may be a very EASY decision.
Of course, bi-assed One, your goal is to flog a simplistic talking point rather than to say anything meaningful about reality. In a nutshell, that’s kind of why Wingnuts like you do such a lousy job of governing: soundbites just don’t cut it in real life.
CF and beber you do make a good point. When you spend the day arguing with the left logically you will always be frustrated because the left doesn’t know logic. Enough wasted time. Goodbye
CF and beber you do make a good point. When you spend the day arguing with the left logically you will always be frustrated because the left doesn’t know logic.
Funny thing, I formally studied it. What about you, CF2K?
CFdaisy-soft2K- Thanks for conceding that you have lost the argument, such as it was.
————
Let’s review libtard,
The original arguement was, doing the business of the people, and making tough decisions…
My arguement, the One voted 130 times “present”
Voting “Present” is NOT doing the business…
Voting “Present” is NOT making a tough decision…
So by telling me McCain has missed votes in the senate this year, somehow voting “present” has a different meaning.
Cs Argument.
McCain has missed MORE votes than the One.
therefore
Voting “Present” IS doing business….
Voting “Present” IS making a tough decision….
and they let you vote…..
okobserver,
For Wingnuts like you, “logical” = “agrees with me.” And flinging that ad hominem on your way out the door doesn’t do much to support your claim to being “logical.”
Note to self: Why do stupid people who can’t argue always think they can?
“untrained just entering the workforce and the seniors who are slower and thus less productive.”
I believe lack of jobs are currently hurting the untrained and elderly…….see the latest unemployment report.
What will Sarah do?
bi-assed One,
As I point out above, you’re simply wrong. In the Illinois Legislature, one can vote one of three ways: “yes,” “no,” or “present.”
So, bi-assed One, is one who votes “present” voting, or not voting? And if one DOES vote, that counts as “doing business.” If the Illinois Legislature thought that only “yes” or “no” counted as “doing business,” they could narrow the vote choices accordingly. They haven’t, so “present” stays. You’re wrong. Period.
Moreover, in certain circumstances–which I know you don’t want to acknowledge because you’re hell-bent on having a superficial attack toy to wield against Barack Obama–it also will count as “making a tough decision.” But of course, bi-assed One, such circumstances can’t be specified in advance in a simple minded way for the consumption of simpletons.
I know, bi-assed One, that what you want is a simplistic attack statistic, because you, yourself, as simplistic and intellectually dishonest. But you’ve lost. Period.
And here’s a nice explanation the what the “present” vote means in the Illinois Legislature, and some relevant history.
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=274863
In the Illinois Senate voting “Present” is a long tradition and carries with it significant historical clout.
Since the emergence of Chicago after the Fire and the Industrial Revolution, the Illinois State Government has been a lesson of division. Like the Eastern Kansas v. Western Kansas split, Illinois state politics has been largely influenced by north/south biases and political power.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1947019
For those who follow Illinois state politics a “Present” vote is code for “the other side’s got the votes, but I don’t want to associate with ‘em.” It usually signals that piece of legislation will return for another legislative fight in future sessions.
In the past 20 years or so of “gotcha” politics, bills have been passed in the legislature by a vote of 3-2 with 115 voting “Present.”
It’s just another silly distraction from issues that should matter in this year’s PRESIDENTIAL election.
The Republic Party is so ashamed at their presidential candidate, all they’ve got is conjuring up fake superficial “issues” they can spin into attacks.
And they’re so desperate they’re likely to get Track Palin killed in Baghdad on November 2nd in hopes for a surge of sympathy votes. (And on November 5th, they’ll admit it was “friendly fire.”)
Oh, and “Franklin?”
I have it on good authority that John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) is, despite his name, only 44% Scottish.
CF2K
Posted September 5, 2008 at 1:38 pm | Permalink
bi-assed One-
====================================
Does that mean four buttocks or a cleaved buttocks separated into symmetrical parts?
Would this be a medial or a lateral slice?
And, if it were a lateral slice, would the aforementioned cleaved, “bi-ass” be classified as the front and back ass? Or would it be in more precise medical terms, proximal and distal “bi-ass?”
If the “bi-ass” was sliced medially, would there be a classification of “bi-ass sinister” and “bi-ass dexter” or would it be ???
I’m not sure I under the concept of “bi-ass.”
“Bare-ass” me again after I trying to put an “end” to this conundrum.
I have it on good authority that John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) is, despite his name, only 44% Scottish.
Hehe, talk about an inside joke! But funny anyway.
Sebelius calls Palin a part of the radical fringe on reproductive issues! Well, it would take one to know one! The liberal fem’s think they are mainstream in their ardent support of everything pro-abortion, but they are not. They claim to be pro-choice, but despise every choice or position that does not agree with them. If Governor Sebelius wants to see a radical extremist, she need only look in the mirror!
In the past 20 years or so of “gotcha” politics, bills have been passed in the legislature by a vote of 3-2 with 115 voting “Present.”
——-
So the present votes hold as much water as not voting at all? In this scenario 120 votes were cast, but 5 only counted towards passing or not passing the bill.
Here’s a closer look at unemployment
http://seekingalpha.com/article/83803-a-closer-look-at-employment-and-sentiment
A Closer Look at Employment and Sentiment
by: Barry Ritholtz posted on: July 04, 2008
Early last month, we suggested that it would be more instructive if the media began reporting U3 and U6 Unemployment together. (Unemployment Reporting: A Modest Proposal (U3 + U6)
Northern Trust’s Asha Bangalore appears to have been thinking along the same lines, for her NFP post-mortem includes the following:
Household Survey – The BLS also publishes information about marginally attached persons to the labor force. These folks are either discouraged workers or they want to work and are available but are not working and have looked for work in the recent past. If we sum the number officially unemployed, the number of marginally attached workers, and the number working part-time for economic reasons we obtain a more comprehensive measure of unemployment. This broader measure of unemployment rose to 9.9% in June (see chart 1) which is significantly higher than the 8.3% rate reported in June 2007
Libtards are unable to argue the One should be president because he is more experienced or more qualified than John McCain.
Therefore they argue, the One should be president because he is more experienced and more qualified than Sarah Palin.
The simple fact of the matter, unfortunately for the Libtards, they lose that arguement.
“Business will always have the last word and we are hearing it loud and clear today.”
We are hearing their displeased message, which is interesting given that there has never been a more “business friendly” presidential administration in our history. The constituents of government regulatory programs have become “the industry” rather than “the public.” With all of this blatent help, one would think that businesses would be thriving. They are not. What gives with that? And Paul, the answer to that question is not democratic local officials – so, save that nonsense, please.
Back later.
CF2K
Posted September 5, 2008 at 1:24 pm | Permalink
okobserver,
For Wingnuts like you, “logical” = “agrees with me.” And flinging that ad hominem on your way out the door doesn’t do much to support your claim to being “logical.”
Note to self: Why do stupid people who can’t argue always think they can?
—————–
I don’t know CF since you have that market cornered why don’t you tell me.
Libtard logic.
Mary owes the bank $1,000.00
Mary is in debt. I hate Mary
Bill owes the bank $2,000.00
Bill is in debt. I like Bill
Harry owes the bank $3,000.00
Harry is in debt. I hate Harry
Bill has more debt than Mary
Bill has less debt than Harry
I hate Mary AND Harry
AND since Harry has MORE debt than Bill.
Bill is debt free.
Mult-nic’d Regular posted September 5, 2008 at 11:42 am
“Take note cosmos, Palin was appointed to the Oil and Gas Commissio, so I would say she could kick your lightweight buttocks all over the place concerning what is really happening with Alaskan petroleum products.”
———–
Being “appointed” does not prove that person is qualified.
Heck of a job, Brownie! (FEMA)
Palin is either grossly misinformed about the Arctic Refuge issue, or she is a LIAR.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/427xjuoj.asp
“One of the pieces of a solution is allowing exploration on that little 2,000 acre plot of land out of the 20 million acres up there in the coastal plain.”
————-
According to Congress, all 1.5 MILLION acres of Area 1002 would be opened to “exploration”, except for possibly 45,000 acres.
The first lease sale would be a minimum of 200,000 acres — 100 times larger than Palin’s false claim.
2,000 acres is not a “plot”. It’s the maximum amount of surface covered by “production and support facilities”.
http://thomas.loc.gov Bill number S.2758
“(e) Special Areas-
(1) DESIGNATION-
(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary, after consultation with the State of Alaska, the North Slope Borough, Alaska, and the City of Kaktovik, Alaska, may designate not more than 45,000 acres of the Coastal Plain as a special area if the Secretary determines that the special area would be of such unique character and interest as to require special management and regulatory protection.
…
SEC. 4. LEASE SALES.
(d) Acreage Minimum in First Sale- For the first lease sale under this Act, the Secretary shall offer for lease those tracts the Secretary considers to have the greatest potential for the discovery of hydrocarbons, taking into consideration nominations received pursuant to subsection (b)(1), but in no case less than 200,000 acres.
…
SEC. 7. COASTAL PLAIN ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION.
(3) ensure that the maximum surface acreage covered in connection with the leasing program by production and support facilities, including airstrips and any areas covered by gravel berms or piers for support of pipelines, does not exceed 2,000 acres on the Coastal Plain.”
——
Gravel roads and gravel mines are not included in the “maximum surface acreage covered”.
http://arctic.fws.gov/issues1.htm#section4
“According to the U.S. Geological Survey, possible oil reserves may be located in many small accumulations in complex geological formations, rather than in one giant field as was discovered at Prudhoe Bay. Consequently, development in the 1002 Area could likely require a large number of small production sites spread across the Refuge landscape, connected by an infrastructure of roads, pipelines, power plants, processing facilities, loading docks, dormitories, airstrips, gravel pits, utility lines and landfills.”
———
What the 2,000 acre “protection”(sic) allows
http://www.inforain.org/Northslope/anwr_3.html
Why does big business hate America?
http://www.truthout.org/article/renewing-americas-contract-with-middle-class
snip
In the last 25 years, what is good for America and what is good for much of corporate America have gotten way out of sync.
Not all that long ago, America’s prominent business and government leaders widely believed that our nation’s prosperity depended on a strong middle class growing from the bottom up. Workers were rewarded for their hard work with fair wages, benefits and advancement opportunities – and our economy and our national security were much stronger for it.
Henry Ford certainly knew this, and often said that his company would prosper only if his workers earned enough to buy the Fords they produced. And in 1953, when General Motors’ president told the Senate that “what was good for the country was good for General Motors and vice versa,” he was simply stating the then-commonly held belief that success for American corporations generally meant success for America and American workers.
However, over the last 25 years – especially over the last decade – what is good for America and what is good for much of corporate America have gotten way out of sync. Our current business culture too often emphasizes only short-term corporate profits and shareholder returns – however and wherever they are generated – and in the process, what is good for America is being pushed aside.
———————
This disconnect between the national interest and corporate responsibility and interests has helped shatter the “contract with the middle class.” And in the most painful measure of just how broken this contract is, based on data from 2005-2006, the top 1% of Americans – 300,000 – earn as much as the bottom 150 million combined. Income inequality is the greatest it has been since 1928, and for every three-year period since 1981, the top 1% of taxpayers have gained, on average, $100 billion in total earnings, while the bottom 80% have lost $100 billion.
Corporate America frequently justifies its actions, however harmful those actions may be to workers and to the local and national economies, as necessary to remain competitive globally. But globalization doesn’t have to mean more job insecurity, stagnant wages for workers and little or no healthcare coverage for 75 million people. It doesn’t have to mean threats to move jobs overseas and slashed benefits just because multinational corporations have almost complete mobility of capital and technology and American workers have almost none…………
What will Sarah do?
Sebelius and her New World Order mission -
Why was this not front page news? Sorry forgot the anti American liberal media’s agenda.
“THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
Kansas governor attended Bilderberg meeting
Taxpayers help cover expenses, but spokesman mum on details
By Jerome R. Corsi
Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius
While Texas Gov. Rick Perry received significant Internet attention for participating in the secretive Bilderberg annual meeting in Turkey, the attendance of a second U.S. governor was largely overlooked.
confirmed Kathleen Sebelius, the Democratic governor of Kansas, attended the annual meeting of the Bilderberg Group May 31 to June 3 in Istanbul.
Spokesman Seth Bundy of Sebelius’ office told WND the Bilderberg Group paid for the airfare, but Sebelius expensed the state of Kansas for $1,274 to cover her Ritz Carlton luxury hotel room in Istanbul.
Bundy refused to give any information about Sebelius’ speech to the Bilderberg Group or about the meeting agenda and attendee list, even though expenses from her trip were paid from public taxpayer funds.
When asked Bundy why Sebelius attended the secretive meeting, he responded glibly, “Because she was invited.”
Bundy if Sebelius met with Perry in Istanbul.
Bundy said he didn’t know.
Bundy also said he had never heard of the Trans-Texas Corridor and did not know if Sebelius supported the extension of the superhighway north.
Sebelius attracted national attention in May 2004 by signing a Kansas law granting illegal immigrants a tuition break at the state’s public colleges and universities.
According to the Associated Press, last month, Sebelius signed an executive order covering 25,000 of the state’s 41,000 employees prohibiting on-the-job harassment against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and people who have undergone sexual-reassignment surgery.
Vote Match lists Sebelius as a pro-choice advocate who believes abortion is a private decision between a woman and her doctor.”
The Daily Kos… isn’t that the blog that was trying to say Palin’s daughter was the mother of Sarah’s down syndrome baby and that Sarah Palin faked her pregnacy to protect her daughter?
Users (bloggers) at DK (not DK, per se) were digging for information about Palin, since she was virtually an unknown in the lower 48 and information from Team McCain was minimal, at best.
As far as being mayor, she requested and received millions in earmark funding. Anyone would be a success with millions in free federal money.
Finish the story. And left the city 22 mil in debt.
#
Predestined
Posted September 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm | Permalink
The Daily Kos… isn’t that the blog that was trying to say Palin’s daughter was the mother of Sarah’s down syndrome baby and that Sarah Palin faked her pregnacy to protect her daughter?
Users (bloggers) at DK (not DK, per se) were digging for information about Palin, since she was virtually an unknown in the lower 48 and information from Team McCain was minimal, at best.
——————-
Duh leftist lib dumbocrats still repeated the lie here and much much more, all of which have been thoroughly refuted as false.
Be proud Leftist Libs! You are accomplished liars!
Hey Cosmos..simple question for you. Why are you so upset about Regular using more than one nic in the past? After all, your buddy, the foul mouthed Capn has used at least 5 different nics, but that doesn’t seem to upset you. Why is that?
Raptor,
I’m not “upset” that multi-nic’d Regular has used so many nics, and denied it. I think it’s funny.
The multi_nic’d cosmos is just upset that the nic “cosmos” is no longer available to him.
(snickers quietly)
cosmos_originally find a woman.
“Sebelius put Palin “on the radical fringe of even the Republican Party on reproductive issues and privacy issues.”
Reproductive issues = Does she mean killing innocent babies?
Did the Eagle ever run the picture of Sebelius and Tiller in the Gov. Mansion?
Privacy issues = ???
Wasn’t it Sebelius that would not sign the law making sure that every citizen who voted had a ID?
She was just doing her part to make sure that cheating for the immoral party would be easier.
Any conservative not aware of these issues?
cosmos_originally = “cosmos” + “_originally”
(LOL)
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/sebelius-takes-on-hurricane-sarah/#comment-418386
Predestined
The Daily Kos… isn’t that the blog that was trying to say Palin’s daughter was the mother of Sarah’s down syndrome baby and that Sarah Palin faked her pregnacy to protect her daughter?
Has the Daily Kos tried to find out if Michele Obama has had any of her children killed through abortion?
Has the Daily Kos tried to find out if Michele Obama has had any of her children killed through abortion?
Yes they have, so far nothings turned up.
Duh leftist lib dumbocrats still repeated the lie here and much much more, all of which have been thoroughly refuted as false.
Questions were asked. Opinions (right or wrong) were formed. You just don’t like the content.
Has the Daily Kos tried to find out if Michele Obama has had any of her children killed through abortion?
They’re leaving that one up to you, Kandisue. Are you up to the task of proving it?
“We are hearing their displeased message, which is interesting given that there has never been a more “business friendly” presidential administration in our history. The constituents of government regulatory programs have become “the industry” rather than “the public.” With all of this blatent help, one would think that businesses would be thriving. They are not. What gives with that?”
annie moose has, what I believe is the correct answer to my question:
“Not all that long ago, America’s prominent business and government leaders widely believed that our nation’s prosperity depended on a strong middle class growing from the bottom up. Workers were rewarded for their hard work with fair wages, benefits and advancement opportunities – and our economy and our national security were much stronger for it.”
Policies that put the greatest amount of money into the fewest wealthiest hands are bound to fail. So, letting the rich determine tax policy, etc. hurts America and even ultimately them.
Call advertisers of US Weekly to get them to pull their ads.
http://www.boycottusweekly.com/advertisers.html
annie_moose
“Has the Daily Kos tried to find out if Michele Obama has had any of her children killed through abortion?
Yes they have, so far nothings turned up.”
Really.
Please provide a link to back up your statement.
Unless of course it is just more liberal lies and distortion from a supporter of Obama the Muslim.
The plain fact is Palin is a true fundi; a member of the religious right that wants ID taught in public schools. A Fundie that thinks God has a plan for the Alaska pipeline. A fundie that thinks God’s plan is for us to win in Iraq. Well, excuse me, gov, but I seriously doubt God gives any of that a single thought.
But let me ask this: Would any of you vote for Nathan? For anything? Because that’s what Palin stands for. While everybody’s got a right to believe in whatever they wish, I don’t want a fundie as the Vice-President of this country.
I also don’t want some bser who claims she was agin’ the bridge, when she was all fer it before it became politically incorrect to be fer it. Nor do I want some bser who claims to be against earmarks, when she, as mayor of a town of 9000, hired a lobbyist to do just the opposite.
I realize all politicians are experts at bagging the truth in favor of getting re-elected, but she’s bagged and buried the truth from the starting gate. She stands for more of the same, but with pure fundamentalism at her core. That reminds me of one Connie, that did pretty much the same.
Hell yes! I’d vote for Nathan! For anything!
Predestined
“As far as being mayor, she requested and received millions in earmark funding. Anyone would be a success with millions in free federal money.
Finish the story. And left the city 22 mil in debt.”
You mean kinda like the Wichitan’s voted to fund a $300 million dollar school improvement? The mayor who left after this according to a liberal distortion of the facts would have left us $300 million in debt?
I am having a hard time listening to all the talk about speech writers…who does everyone think has been writing all of these speeches all of these years?! Saying that do not think for one minute that Sara and others do not have a strong influence if not control over the content…I wonder if Kathleen has written all of her own speeches…hmmm. Maybe more mayors should go after federal money…don’t those ‘little’ towns send money to federal?
“Unless of course it is just more liberal lies and distortion from a supporter of Obama the Muslim.”
That’s not a very good way to make a friend kandisue.
Why are so angry and militant kandisue? I’m sorry the republicans haven’t delivered. Please don’t take it out on us.
Your Friends,
The daily kos liberals
Kandi?
You never DID answer.
Are you in favor of eliminating prenatal screening?
I have a followup.
If the thought of abortion NEVER entered her mind?
Why did Sarah Palin have a prenatal screening?
For the record Kandi? I think you’re a kook.
And now a little info about Sarah Palin’s pastor…
“During the 2004 election season, he praised President Bush’s performance during a debate with Sen. John Kerry, then offered a not-so-subtle message about his personal candidate preferences. “I’m not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I’m sorry.” Kalnins added: “If every Christian will vote righteously, it would be a landslide every time.”
Months after hinting at possible damnation for Kerry supporters, Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over the federal government’s handling of Hurricane Katrina. “I hate criticisms towards the President,” he said, “because it’s like criticisms towards the pastor — it’s almost like, it’s not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That’s what it’ll get you.”
So anyone who votes for a Democrat is going to hell… charming.
In his sermons, Pastor Kalnins has also expressed beliefs that, while not directly political, lie outside of mainstream Christian thought. He preaches repeatedly about the “end times” or “last days,” an apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, “I believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them.”
Why did Sarah Palin have a prenatal screening?
—–
Out of concern for the health of the baby, I would guess.
Unless of course it is just more liberal lies and distortion from a supporter of Obama the Muslim.
Let me guess: you’re one of the mentally-ill types who got all hysterical when Keith Ellison got sworn in on a Quran (Thomas Jefferaons’s Quran, actually).
Get some help.
“Has the Daily Kos tried to find out if Michele Obama has had any of her children killed through abortion?
Did they ever check into those wild bush twins?
JMWalker
“The plain fact is Palin is a true fundi; a member of the religious right that wants ID taught in public schools.”
Maybe the reasons schools are purposely dumbed down is to convince the blind in evolution.
For a thinker it takes WAY TO MUCH FAITH to believe in evolution.
Boycott, heck buy the issue!
BlueJay
Kandi?
“So anyone who votes for a Democrat is going to hell… charming.”
BlueJay do you believe in the Hell as the Bible describes it?
And y’know the thing?
It’s simply tacky that the Moose-Dresser’s sister’s divorce has come up. Everyone knows stories about ugly divorces (and twice-born evangelicals statistically have more of ‘em) and it’s why local judges get paid the big bucks.
I really should have nothing to do with presidential politics. Then again, it REALLY should have nothing to do with whether your sister is the governor and and pressure people to do your bidding in a divorce case (“He was fired as a State Trooper!” I’d like to be a divorce lawyer with that tidbit in my bag of tricks.)
So the CONs trot out all sorts of allegations that the brother-in-law state trooper was a dick. And somehow that justifies the Governor pressuring the Alaska state police?
C’mon, CONs. You’re not really trying to make sense anymore. You just spew your boilerplate talking points from Limbaugh and Faux News Channel and littlegreenfootballs and never realize you contradict your vaunted “principle” at just about every turn.
Just ‘fess up. You’re not gonna vote for Barack Obama. We know that. It doesn’t really matter if it’s because he’s half-black, or a liberal, or went to church where a feisty preacher sometimes said outrageous things, or if “Michelle Obama (an obvious Black Woman, so she must have had many abortions! (tip o’ the hat to “biased1’s” peculiar insanity on that one)
No.
The campaign manager for John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) has stated explicitly that his campaign can not be about the “issues.” Because on the issues that matter the Republic Party has proven totally incompetent, corrupt, and (to borrow a term from the twice-born) evil.
Or just stupid.
Since you’re fellow Americans and I generally like Americans, I’d like to think you’re not evil.
I did not write that part of my post Kandi.
As my quotation marks show.
But no, I do not believe in heaven or hell.
But if we have pastors using faith to influence politics I think we at least need to know about it.
#
Kandisue
Posted September 5, 2008 at 4:43 pm | Permalink
JMWalker
“The plain fact is Palin is a true fundi; a member of the religious right that wants ID taught in public schools.”
Maybe the reasons schools are purposely dumbed down is to convince the blind in evolution.
For a thinker it takes WAY TO MUCH FAITH to believe in evolution.
=====================================================
For a non-thinker, it takes nothing but faith to believe in Intelligent Design.
We are worlds apart when it comes to religion: My God would not deny heaven to anyone born prior to Christ, nor to people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, such as indigenous tribes, etc.; Your’s would.
My God created the heavens and the earth in seven days; those days being anything from less than one second to billions of years. I prefer to believe somewhere in between, like one God day equals millions of years. My science, which I also believe in – that belief having nothing to do with, and everything to do with, religion – pretty much maps that out: the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
My religion neither suggests, nor doesn’t suggest man is descended from apes. I don’t think we did, but we evolved from something, be it a separate species, put on this earth by God millions of years ago, or from some primordial ooze. I really don’t care one way or another, and in the end, it’s meaningless.
The bible is an allegorical truth, written so the people of its time could understand it. Imagine Jesus giving a sermon to a group of sheep herders. “God created to heavens and the earth in 13.778 billion years!” He’d of been put away as a nut case AT THE TIME.
Monkeyhawk
“And y’know the thing?
(and twice-born evangelicals statistically have more of ‘em) ”
More liberal distortions for the naive and those who can’t think logically.
The bible is the history, folklore, songs, and campfire stories of the Jews, originally carried from tent to tent vocally, and later laid down in writing. It’s so damned obvious what it is, I can’t believe people think it was written by God, though it is in places inspired. I can hear the desert wind blow and smell the goats and sheep when I read it.
Monkey I know you would like to think the right takes their talking point from talk radio but that just isn’t right. I spend lots of time researching subjects I am interested in as well as proving or disproving ‘facts’ the left floats out there.
The article I posted about the trooper was from an Alaskan newspaper. Look it up for yourself. Boy the stench of desperation is reeking today from the left side of the blog.
Hank I second that vote for Nathan!!
Blowjay all of those words to say what. This pastor is conservative in his thinking. He didn’t endorse anyone from the pulpit. The church believes in endtimes and ocassionally has sermons on that subject. I am simply aghast I tell you. Please please please keep up your remarkable research. I just don’t know how you have time to do it all.
If calling me names makes you more comfortable on your side of the argument okobserver?
Knock yourself out. Aint a one I aint heard.
“He didn’t endorse anyone from the pulpit.”
Not directly no. Implying that there is a good chance you will burn in hell for all eternity if you do not support one candidate over another is not so much endorsement as it is extortion. It also would seem to presume the political leanings of “god” as regards a fraction of the human population living on a fraction of “creation”.
A “god” I would believe in would have better things to do.
The church of Senator Barack Obama and his pastor are much explored. You don’t mind if we know a little more about the church and pastor Sarah Palin I trust?
There’s also some hint that this pastor believes that in the “end times” large numbers of folks will flee to Alaska and his church. Why Alaska and his particular church find some sort of til the last minute reprieve might be interesting to better know.
should say -pastor of Sarah Palin.
I don’t believe she has yet been ordained and did not mean to imply otherwise.
Would any of you vote for Nathan? For anything?
Do you want an honest answer? Then here it is: It would depend on what the vote was about. Nathan isn’t the scum of the earth. True, his vehemence and passion on some subjects can be too much (IMHO only), but he’s basically intelligent, and I suspect we will agree to disagree, eternally. :)
#
Predestined
Posted September 5, 2008 at 6:19 pm | Permalink
Would any of you vote for Nathan? For anything?
Do you want an honest answer? Then here it is: It would depend on what the vote was about. Nathan isn’t the scum of the earth. True, his vehemence and passion on some subjects can be too much (IMHO only), but he’s basically intelligent, and I suspect we will agree to disagree, eternally. :)
==============================================
Maybe I should have qualified that; it was a cheap shot after thinking about it:
I think as long as Nathan is doing his duty for this country as a soldier, I think he’s doing about as good a job as any and all other soldiers in this country. As a person running for an office, whose duty it is to serve the people, I think Nathan is one who would put his beliefs in God over what is good for the people. They sometimes are NOT the same, and as such, I would have a problem voting for him.
And I am at ease with that.
Heard that Hillary is most likely to take on the Goddess. Palin’s toast.
“Sebelius takes on Hurricane Sarah”…in a oil wrestling cage match..tonight on CSPAN
outlander
“Sebelius takes on Hurricane Sarah”
“BTW, Drudge reports that newest Rasmussen poll will show Sarah Pail more popular than McCain or Obama.”
I saw that. Very interesting.
I know several people who were absolutely not going to vote for anything other than “None of the Above” who are now fired up because of Sarah.
Every time the liberal Anti American press does another dog pile on her these people just get more determined not to let the homosexual liberal press win.
“Kandisue
Posted September 5, 2008 at 4:43 pm | Permalink
Maybe the reasons schools are purposely dumbed down is to convince the blind in evolution.
For a thinker it takes WAY TO MUCH FAITH to believe in evolution.”
This does not make sense. Are you trying to say that smart people believe evolution based on faith? Or that schools for the blind have low standards?
“Kandisue
Posted September 5, 2008 at 6:40 pm | Permalink
…I know several people who were absolutely not going to vote for anything other than “None of the Above” who are now fired up because of Sarah. ”
Fortunately, I know several people that are also fired up because of Sarah.
They are going to vote against her, but they are fired up.
“Every time the liberal Anti American press does another dog pile on her these people just get more determined not to let the homosexual liberal press win.”
LMFAO!
Do you mean the ‘Liberty Press’?
Ya know Kandi?
I can just feel the warm christian love glowin’ off of you.
Yes Palin probably gets McCain a few of the Christo fascists back.
But for every person like you she attracts?
2 sane people say “No way, no how, no Sarah Palin”
At first, before I knew anything about her politics, I liked the idea of Palin on the ticket – young, fresh, not a career politician.
But as I educated myself about what she stood for, I find that her views are as ‘GOP’ as any 30 year congress veteran.
I think she is way too out of line on most social issues for mainstream Americans to vote for, and as I believe we will learn in the next few weeks, somewhat dishonest to herself regarding what she claims her views on fiscal issues are and the actions she has taken in the past.
BlueJay
“He didn’t endorse anyone from the pulpit.”
Not directly no. Implying that there is a good chance you will burn in hell for all eternity if you do not support one candidate over another is”
Most people I know believe this to some degree.
You can’t be a Christian and vote for somebody who supports killing a baby by stabing it in the head seconds before it is born.
So saying what every Christian believes is not extortion.
Actually I haven’t read anything about this pastor that you wrote that I don’t agree with.
What is hard to understand is why those who claim not to believe in “God” or “Hell” are so offended by the fact that those who do think you will go to the very Hell that you don’t believe in.
Your comments about this pastor’s thinking will not change those of us who agree with him.
We do believe that at some point in time and that may be very close that you and yours maybe with Obama in lead will persecute us.
To us Obama smells like the leader to begin this persectution.
A “god” I would believe in would have better things to do.
I would say that this “god” you refer to is Satan.
Cheers
brian_nuevo
Posted September 5, 2008 at 6:44 pm | Permalink
“Kandisue
‘Fortunately, I know several people that are also fired up because of Sarah.
They are going to vote against her, but they are fired up.”
I’ll bet money these people were going to vote anyway. Your just trying to convince yourself otherwise.
I am talking about people who really WERE NOT going to vote and NOW ARE. Big difference. and I mean A LOT of people.
We still can stand McCain but he is better than the Anti Christ Obama and we really really like Palin.
“Your comments about this pastor’s thinking will not change those of us who agree with him.”
Oh I am well aware of that. And I am trying in no way to reach you. I am also quite confident that most people you know agree with you. Not claiming to have or hear the voice of some supernatural presence, I won’t move them either.
Much was made about Senator Barack Obama’s church. The less…zealous (religious or otherwise) potential voter deserve a similar explore of Sarah Palin’s faith. People of faith less strident might also wonder whether “god” according to Sarah Palin finds them wanting.
On a side note? Congrats on putting together a post more than three sentences long.
Just a word of advice? Your barely contained seething does little to attract anyone to your faith or anything else about you.
But I don’t mind kicking you around.
Kandi I am honestly guessing you don’t know “A LOT of people.”
You just don’t come across as someone that draws the people in. Those that do approach are probably quickly judged unworthy.
That’s fine.
But folks like you? Well their ideas in faith and other things tend to infringe on other people. That’s not fine.
But let’s stick to your issue. Sorry, your only issue.
How pro life are you? Do you advocate for economic and social justice for those beyond the birth canal? See cause that’s where you might actually do some real good.
BlueJay
“Much was made about Senator Barack Obama’s church. The less…zealous (religious or otherwise) potential voter deserve a similar explore of Sarah Palin’s faith. People of faith less strident might also wonder whether “god” according to Sarah Palin finds them wanting.”
You mean that Obama went to Church where a white hating Pastor ranted and spewed hate towards America and yet Obama wasn’t able to pick up on it for 20 years? Or maybe hating the White man was really what Obama thinks?
If this is what he thinks why has the liberal homosexual dominated press stopped the little they did talk about him?
“BTW, Drudge reports that newest Rasmussen poll will show Sarah Pail more popular than McCain or Obama.”
Did they happen to include the question that was asked to determine this?
I would say that this “god” you refer to is Satan.
Have you read the book of Enoch? I’m not sure the story there reflects the stories WE were told as children. But I’ve only heard of the substance of that book from others who are probably not Christians.
My son thinks you are funny in a scary kinda way Kandi.
Thanks for that.
Using your logic, I would conclude that Sarah Palin’s church and so Sarah Palin hates
well pretty much everybody. Save a small high enlightened few.
I wish you NO good luck with that.
How pro life are you? Do you advocate for economic and social justice for those beyond the birth canal? See cause that’s where you might actually do some real good.
—————————————————-
A black man is a nominee of a major party for President of the United State.
What more social justice needs to be done?
If the likes of Obama can do it and Bill Clinton with his background as well why not anyone?
Back off, Bilious Sebelius, Sarah Barracuda will chew you up and spit you out before breakfast.
Monkeydong- “Michelle Obama (an obvious Black Woman, so she must have had many abortions! (tip o’ the hat to “biased1’s” peculiar insanity on that one)
————
Wrong poster nit.
#
Kandisue
Posted September 5, 2008 at 7:15 pm | Permalink
We still can stand McCain but he is better than the Anti Christ Obama and we really really like Palin.
====================================================
This is exactly what I’m talking about. These right-wing religious wackos have no belief in either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. They stand for nothing more than to infuse their brand of Christianity into every day politics.
I know this is beyond your understanding, as you think anybody who doesn’t think like you is going to hell, but look at http://www.adherents.com/ and you will find 4300 recognized religions in the world. Many don’t hold to your particular beliefs. By your own standard, each and every one of them has a God given right to have their beliefs preached in public school. That publicly elected officials should be answerable to each and every one of those same religions.
I assume you meant to write, “We still can(’t) stand McCain . . .
Kia?
Studies show us that the primary reason women end pregnancy is economic.
I was asking Kandi just how active she is in addressing that.
The question is open for you as well.
Would you favor national health care, expansion of welfare to the economically needy and other measures that might actually help women make a different decision?
parkay?
Down little dog.
This has been highly amusing.
Lil Sarah bursts on the national stage and all the whackaloons come outta the woodwork. It’s resurrection!
Except it isn’t.
The fact of it is, Sarah Palin is so far right on social and economic issues that she will soon begin to hurt the McCain ticket. Such extremist views as she holds are decidedly not mainstream and that is saying it kindly. The sudden upwelling religious extremism will frighten many Americans. The resulting backlash from more moderate folk will doom McCain/Palin and perhaps finally teach the far right just how far outside reality they are. Church and state may in fact be even more separated than before as cooler heads prevail.
In the end, a good thing.
There are plenty of poor and suffering people in this world. THAT should be the mission of the faithful. Their efforts at judgment and legislating morality are neither wanted nor good for America.
BlueJay
Kandi I am honestly guessing you don’t know “A LOT of people.”
I frequent a one particular very conservative web site that also mirrors what I told you about people switching from None Of the Above. It went from 85% absolutely not voting for McCain and I mean these people were not going to vote for McCain period until Sarah and now 85% are enthusaticly voting for Sarah. We all still think McCain is a liberal conservative at best and can’t stand him.
“You just don’t come across as someone that draws the people in. Those that do approach are probably quickly judged unworthy.”
People who are Obama supporters are people I can’t ever imagine being friends with. Baby killers have little appeal to me.
“But folks like you? Well their ideas in faith and other things tend to infringe on other people. That’s not fine.”
This is where we disagree it is you who are trying to impose your beliefs on us. I don’t want schools (teaching) I mean pushing your beliefs on evolution, baby killing, homosexuality on me and mine.
I also have a lot of sympathy for the incredible pain that a baby goes through to die. People who protect this are not the kind of people who will ever see my sweet side.
Tiller is evil.
Obama is evil.
“But let’s stick to your issue. Sorry, your only issue.”
Of what value would there be in talking gardening?
Kandisue
I assume you meant to write, “We still can(’t) stand McCain . . .
Correct thanks.
bluejay,
Why do government workers and people like you get christmas as holiday. Isn’t that a little hypocritical?
JR if you don’t have the first clue about the work Christian organizations do in this country and world wide it is because of your own bias. Ultimately you are no better than those you claim then to despise.
Economically needy is a load of garbage. They may very well be that, but they are not being educated about their options. Adoption being first and foremost.
I believe you are underestimating the Religious right who were bored and I among others was ready to sit this election out before I saw a kindered spirity in Sarah Palin.
I don’t however believe Obama to be evil or the anti-Christ or anything of that nature. I find him sincere. Just completely opposite of I in his beliefs for the direction of the country.
Kia I am aware that a small minority of Christians do good work just to do good work.
Mostly? You get the sermon before the bowl of soup. IF you get the bowl of soup. By and large, faith based organizations are looking for those who can add to their wealth.
“Economically needy is a load of garbage. They may very well be that, but they are not being educated about their options. Adoption being first and foremost.”
Kia? I used to be “pro life”. I KNOW all the bogus arguments and why they don’t work. That is why I am no longer “pro life”.
Adoption? How many couples are waiting to adopt a Down syndrome baby? How many white couples are on a list to adopt a black infant in need of a home?
And just who cares for these women while they carry to term all the babies you say will be adopted?
Kandi? You posted elsewhere that you saw me and such as me as your enemy. It is important for you to know.
I see you and yours the same way. And as ready as you are to fight me? You may rest assured that even though I don’t have an invisible god on my side I give as good as I get. And despite your website where you find maybe a few hundred of your like minded, I have reason and the numbers that brings on my side.
I am very much for freedom of religion. But get to free with your religion? Shove it on me or people I care about? I’ll chase you right back into your church where you belong.
You’ll see shortly that Sarah Palin will not have the courage to voice her convictions. She will hide her real agenda IF she ever allows herself to be questioned at all.
“Shove it on me or people I care about? I’ll chase you right back into your church where you belong”.
—————-
I hear that yappy little dog from my vision again…
BlueJay
Posted September 5, 2008 at 9:58 pm | Permalink
How many white couples are on a list to adopt a black infant in need of a home?
-I learned about this from actually reading Tony Dungy’s book Quiet Strength. I was dismayed that the waiting list to adopt, if its an African American child is nill. This is bullshit. If you want a baby you should want a baby. Same goes for celebrities.
Other races unfortunately it seems there is quite the waiting list.
I am aware that a small minority of Christians do good work just to do good work.
-You are gonna have people who talk the talk or people who walk the walk in all segments of society. Is it right? Of course not. But it goes to show what Christians who walk the walk will tell you that you and I are no different fromo each other.
Heart Wants McCain/Palin To Stop Using Barracuda
Made Popular: Yesterday – The rock group Heart has sent a message to John McCain and Sarah “Barracuda” Palin: quit playing our 1977 hit ”Barracuda.”
Soon after the presidential nominee finished his acceptance speech late Thursday and running-mate Palin joined him on the Republican National Convention stage in St. Paul, the sound system pumped the throbbing introductory guitar licks to “Barracuda.”
Kia
It is not for me to tell a woman what to do with her body.
That is where I am at now.
I consider myself pro life only in the sense that I advocate for the expansion of welfare and health care to actually address the issue. But even given that it is not for me to make so deeply personal a decision for someone else.
Outlander
Yes I remember.
I posted my concerns about Sarah Palin wanting to ban books. You called me a yapping dog.
I remember I was not alone in those you insulted but did not address their arguments.
Now we have met outlander and you know I am not a dog.
I can trade shots with the best of them. And YOU are an easy target. If you can argue against me or what I say go ahead.
Or pop off again and I’ll fire back. I really hold no hope such as you is worth reasoning with anyway.
In risk of insulting a number of people including soon-to-be Vice President Palin:
Are you retarded?
““I don’t know any mayor in any small town in Kansas who hires a lobbyist and goes after (federal money) the way Sarah Palin did,” Sebelius said.”
Kathy is a liar. At least four small towns in Kansas contributed to hiring a lobby firm with the Govs expresss approval and encouragement.
“Gov. Kathleen Sebelius announced Friday the Topeka chamber, along with a coalition of other cities near military installations, hired Hyjek and Fix, which is partnering with Akin Gump Strauss Hauer and Feld. The news came three days after Sebelius appointed a 24-member task force, led by Lt. Gov. John Moore, that is charged with protecting the state’s military bases.The state is kicking in $500,000 to cover costs, in addition to funds from cities with nearby bases. Kinsinger said each community, including Topeka, likely will chip in $125,000.”
The Mayors of the military towns publicly supported hiring the lobby firm.
So Sebelius is a liar.
(and maybe a tad jealous)
Why our enemies love Obama he wants to disarm us –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE
Mr_Kia posted September 5, 2008 at 10:28 pm
“In risk of insulting a number of people including soon-to-be Vice President Palin:
Are you retarded?”
———-
Mr_Kia,
Can you explain WHY Palin very incorrectly claimed that only 2,000 acres needed to be explored in the Arctic Refuge?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/427xjuoj.asp
“One of the pieces of a solution is allowing exploration on that little 2,000 acre plot of land out of the 20 million acres up there in the coastal plain.”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/sebelius-takes-on-hurricane-sarah/#comment-418386
I can only assume that Kia was addressing outlander and calling him retarded.
I’ve met outlander and he didn’t appear to me to be retarded.
States rights?
“She [Palin] added: “And I know up here in Alaska, most every Alaskan believes that ANWR should be drilled, and no one cares more about Alaska’s environment–our lands, our wildlife, our fresh air, our clean water–than Alaskans themselves. And we know that this can be allowed safely, cleanly, ethically–this type of exploration and development of an American supply of energy.”
BlueJay
“Economically needy”
If this is really true why do the illegals not kill their babies?
I used to be “pro life”.
And you changed because why?
“Kandi? You posted elsewhere that you saw me and such as me as your enemy. It is important for you to know.”
I did?
I see you and yours the same way. And as ready as you are to fight me? You may rest assured that even though I don’t have an invisible god on my side
Maybe it’s a demon that you have. Every thought of that?
“And despite your website where you find maybe a few hundred of your like minded, I have reason and the numbers that brings on my side.”
What is this saying?
“I am very much for freedom of religion. But get to free with your religion? Shove it on me or people I care about? I’ll chase you right back into your church where you belong.”
Spoken like a true follower of the Muslim Obama.
and you will have the anti Christian liberal media at your side.
“You’ll see shortly that Sarah Palin will not have the courage to voice her convictions. She will hide her real agenda IF she ever allows herself to be questioned at all.”
I think one would have to be blind not to know where she stands.
On the other hand Osama Obama is a different story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE
BJ
You are a liar.
You were NEVER prolife.
You were NEVER a Republican.
We have gone through your calendar of lies, before.
Do we need to do it again?
The dates and elections and your little life stories do not add up.
You say you voted for Reagan, once?
You say this is the ONLY time you voted Republican, for President, and for “proof” you claim that you wrote “Fritz and Tits call it Quits” on the blackboard, at WSU, when Mondale-Ferraro lost?
That would mean that YOU, the “prolife Republican” voted for proabortion Democrat, Dukakis?
Then, you were “prolife” during the Summer of Mercy? George W. Bush was the President, during the Summer of Mercy abortion protests.
How in Hell could you possibly expect us all to believe that you voted for Reagan, then voted for Dukakis, then protested with the prolifers at the Summer of Mercy, when George W. Bush was President?
Through your “Union Steward” stuff in the mix, now, would you? Were you the “Union Boss” before or after your Reagan vote?
Were you the “Union Boss” before or after your Summer of Mercy “protest”?
You are full of crap, JR.
Nobody believes you.
“To produce oil from this vast area, supporting infrastructure would have to stretch across the coastal plain. Networks of pipelines and roads obviously would fragment wildlife habitat….”
So what? And your point?
We’ve been encroaching on nature since the white man first landed on the continent. Why stop now?
Don’t you think places like New York City used to be beautiful and full of wildlife – before Europeans took over?
We’ve been expanding upon the planet earth since those pesky wagon trains moved west.
I guess now all those pioneers are all nasty capitalists and anti-environmentalist?
Sinners. All their progeny should move back to Europe!
From three sentence hate screeds to a scattershot Kandi?
I’ll field it.
“I used to be “pro life”.
And you changed because why?”
Well because of people like you. You don’t care about life. You care about telling other people what to do, how to live, and what to believe.
““And despite your website where you find maybe a few hundred of your like minded, I have reason and the numbers that brings on my side.”
What is this saying?”
That you are a marginalized kook who knows you are marginalized but refuses to know you are a kook.
““Kandi? You posted elsewhere that you saw me and such as me as your enemy. ”
I’ll modify. I think we agreed to call each other evil.
“Maybe it’s a demon that you have. Every thought of that?”
“Demons” and “God” are excuses people use when they don’t have legitimate argument. As you just proved.
“Spoken like a true follower of the Muslim Obama.”
Senator Barack Obama is not a Muslim and I could hardly be called a follower of his.
“I think one would have to be blind not to know where she stands.”
Then why do I have to look so hard? The woman wants to be a likely heart failure away from being President. She made one speech to the true believers. Why is she hiding or being hidden from everyone else?
American_Way posted September 5, 2008 at 10:48 pm
“States rights?
“She [Palin] added: “And I know up here in Alaska, most every Alaskan believes that ANWR should be drilled, … [lies about Alaska's environmental record]”
——–
“States rights?”
AMERICAN_Way, what does the “N” in “ANWR” stand for?
“National”.
The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge belongs to everyone in the United States of AMERICA, and future generations.
The Congress of the United States of AMERICA controls opening Area 1002 to drilling, not the “state” of Alaska.
Franklin,
You nailed it with your assessment of BlueJay.
I hate to feel as I do about anyone as I do about this fraud, but I also hate to lie.
BlueJay, God help you, you really need it.
And I sincerely mean that, I hope you get help.
And I hope your son gets help as well.
BJ, God Bless you, and you can get that blessing if you will only accept it.
I was also once ‘pro-life’ and then I started living in the real world and seeing exactly what that meant.
I find it amazing that the same people who bash Jehovah’s Witnesses for denying a child a blood tranfusion- because they believe that physical death is a price to pay for adhereing to their religious beliefs for everlasting life- would criticize that when they themselves expect a woman to sacrifice for a fetus.
And I hear all the time about how these people don’t love their children- which is about as insulting to them as you could get. They believe it is the ultimate sacrifice- the most painful.
These same people also believe that life on earth is SO important that the same woman that should give her life in sacrifice for her fetus, should be kept on life support indefinately. By god, we can’t let her end her suffering!
I swear, the people who are so religious are also the ones so afraid of what is coming in the next life. But you’re sure willing to send men off to blow each other up in war just fine.
If you can’t understand why those of us who came out of staunchly religious homes have figured out that the hypocrisy of the Christian religion is too great to be legit from a loving God- then dont blame us because you’re afraid of looking at what your heart tells you is right.
Being pro-choice is the most honest thing there is. Letting someone choose their own path for what they feel is right for them. kandi- I’m sure we’ve seen each other at some point- on opposite sides of the protest line. And I can tell you this much, there is NO WAY I’d ever be over there with you again. You people are downright crazy.
Oh FUN here is Paul F Rosell.
The only people who don’t believe me paul, I don’t care about anyway.
I’m going to take apart your lie. While I do that? Why don’t you go get the email you said you have from a girlfriend of mine. That or you might waffle around again about how you were recruited to beat up people in parks.
“The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge belongs to everyone in the United States of AMERICA, and future generations.”
Sorry Cosmos, American history does not support your claim. Look at the history of the oil boom starting in PA, through the Ohio valley, the Texas strikes to even California.
The states reap the rewards of the mineral rights contained within their own states. There is no handout to the American people. Alaska makes an annual payout to whom?
Give it up. You do NOT own the oil. It is not yours. It belongs to whomever has the mineral rights and the state laws which govern payments, tax collections, etc… The feds can tax it. But ain’t a penny coming your way Cosmos.
The white man man claim “ownership” and stewardship of the lands.
They’ve been making that claim in false promises to native Americans for centuries.
Then we bulldoze it over.
As we rightfully should.
BJ
You are a liar, again.
And documented as such.
To be “recruited” would imply a completed act.
I turned the “recruiters” in to the cops.
And, I can post the emails that you sent to me.
Your name I could post, as well.
You told me, repeatedly, that it was some how your mission to drive me out of this Blog.
YOU sent me threatening emails.
And then? A woman (I assumed, perhaps falsely, it could have been you) asked me to quit picking on you. That was by direct email too.
It happened.
Perhaps she was not your “girlfriend” in the romantic sense. Perhaps it was YOU under a false name? Either way, it happened.
I have never lied on this Blog.
Not once.
You? You lie repeatedly.
Nobody believes you BJ/JR.
You are a pathetic, hateful, vile excuse for a man.
At one time, you acted like you OWNED this blog.
Even if you did?
Rather pathetic if this is the most important thin in your life.
American_Way posted September 5, 2008 at 10:48 pm
‘States rights?
“She [Palin] added: “And I know up here in Alaska, most every Alaskan believes that ANWR should be drilled, and no one cares more about Alaska’s environment–our lands, our wildlife, our fresh air, our clean water–than Alaskans themselves. And we know that this can be allowed safely, cleanly, ethically–this type of exploration and development of an American supply of energy.” ”
————–
“safely, cleanly”? Like BP’s oil spills, that were caused by their “poor maintenance”?
‘BP exec says Alaskan pipeline fixes on target
BP’s American chief says Alaskan pipeline replacement likely to be done by year’s end’
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/e9b5a03ca9f601a27fdc206bebbcefae.htm
“The 201,000-gallon oil spill in March 2006 and a smaller spill five months later ultimately caused BP to halve production at Prudhoe Bay for several weeks _ an unexpected thinning of the nation’s oil supply.
Both leaks were traced to the failure of subsidiary BP Exploration Alaska Inc. to regularly clean and inspect two of its pipelines over the course of several years. BP ultimately agreed with federal prosecutors to pay $12 million in fines for the first spill, the largest ever on Alaska’s oil-rich North Slope.
Under the agreement announced in late 2007, the company also paid $4 million in restitution to the state of Alaska and $4 million to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation for Arctic environmental research.
BP executives, Malone among them, were brought before Congress to answer to lawmakers. Some members of Congress called the mistakes unacceptable given the oil industry’s record profits and the relatively inexpensive measures that might have prevented the spills.”
Malone told lawmakers then that poor maintenance led to the accidents, and that the company’s reputation had been damaged.”
——–
And Palin’s husband for works BP. . .
Bust me in one lie Franklin. I can get you in dozens.
“You were never pro life.”
That’s partially correct. I was once not so much pro life as I was anti sex. Becoming a parent cured me of that. In the meantime? I was at the “Summer of Mercy”
And yes to my undying regret, I was once a Republican. Alex P Keaton was my hero. I voted for Ronald Reagan in 1984 and I did indeed write “Fritz and tits call it quits!” in the English 1 classroom at WSU the day after that election.
As to the rest of your attack Paul F Rosell? One CAN be “pro life” and vote Democratic. In my case it was trying to bring real solution to the problem as I have demonstrated on this very thread and not that long ago.
And Paul F Rosell attacks my union activity.
While he gets it wrong.
I didn’t become a union steward until the 90’s you idiot.
Which brings us back to who believes me and who believes you paul.
Well before I post this and see? Ya got boxlock. He’s just a shade less an asshole than you.
I’ll take who believes me and leave who believes you.
Post anything you like Franklin. Fire away.
Rant away. I don’t think those who are paying you to post here will subsidize that though. But have at it. You can only make a bigger ass of yourself and your party.
“I was also once ‘pro-life’ and then I started living in the real world and seeing exactly what that meant…Letting someone choose their own path for what they feel is right for them”
And that is the central issue;
Do you feel your life is more important than another?
P_moma I am trying to understand your much appreciated expression above. But, I can still not understand how you can deny another created life it’s very existence for your own convenience.
Once life is created it can not be denied. It can not be dismissed simply because it is defenseless and unable to object to it’s own destruction.
To destroy that life is the ultimate expression of selfishness.
American_Way posted September 5, 2008 at 11:13 pm
“Give it up. You do NOT own the oil. It is not yours. It belongs to whomever has the mineral rights and the state laws which govern payments, tax collections, etc… ”
———
I never said that I did.
American_Way, what part(s) of this sentence do you not understand?
“The Congress of the United States of AMERICA controls opening Area 1002 to drilling, not the “state” of Alaska.”
Palin’s very false claim that only 2,000 acres of the Refuge would be opened for exploration is a strong reason for the U.S. Congress to NOT open it.
“Once life is created it can not be denied. It can not be dismissed simply ”
You do it all the time boxlock.
(are you starting to get a sense of how long and how I understand both sides of this fight?)
You marginalize people for being gay or poor.
“Boxlock
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:35 pm | Permalink
…Once life is created it can not be denied. It can not be dismissed simply because it is defenseless and unable to object to it’s own destruction…”
You are mistaken on the central issue. The central issue is when that life is created.
If one does not believe life begins at conception, that person does not see abortion as murder.
“BlueJay
Posted September 5, 2008 at 11:45 pm | Permalink
…You marginalize people for being gay or poor.”
That is not something a true Christian would do….
Sure it is Box, its called self preservation. And we do put this in social order as well….when doctors have a crisis pregnancy- they put the mother’s life over the fetus’s. If they have to make a choice- its the mother they will save if possible.
It does no good to have a dead mother. Its the nature of the world. women are not merely incubators for fetuses- believe it or not we have our own value as people. You don’t have to deal with it because you don’t have to and never will have to put your life on the line.
Women who have miscarriages grieve, but not anything like they grieve after losing a child that has been born. And miscarriages happen almost as often as births. Most of the time a woman doens’t even know she is pregnant.
Life isn’t all nice neat and pretty all the time. If you look at the animal kingdom, there are all sorts of nasty things that happen. Mother cats abandon or kill their kittens if there is something wrong with them or if they can’t protect them. Fetal sharks actually eat one another in the womb. Twins can do something similar in the womb- yes real honest human twins- when one takes the resources to grow away from the other twin.
There are so many things that go wrong in pregnancy- from poisoning the mother, to the mother’s blood poisoning the fetus.
And we can also talk about the mental issues- since they are just as real. Why do women go through such depression after they give birth, and some so severe that it causes irreversible mental illness or temporary mental illness- even to teh point of infacide?
I actually believe that life begins at conception. I will argue that it doesn’t simply because of the right’s attempt to make that their focus in ending abortion.
Personally I think life does begin at conception, but that does not negate that it is still the mother’s life that is priority at that time- until the fetus is outside the mother’s body and affecting it.
AMERICAN_Way posted September 5, 2008 at 11:13 pm
“Give it up. You do NOT own the oil. It is not yours. It belongs to whomever has the mineral rights and the state laws which govern payments, tax collections, etc… ”
———
It’d be “Federal” oil leases, with “royalty” payments to the “Federal” government.
http://thomas.loc.gov/
Bill number S.2758
“SEC. 6. LEASE TERMS AND CONDITIONS.
(a) In General- An oil or gas lease issued pursuant to this Act shall–
(1) provide for the payment of a royalty of not less than 12 1/2 percent of the amount or value of the production removed or sold from the lease, as determined by the Secretary in accordance with regulations applicable to other Federal oil and gas leases;”
Well, except for “Franklin” I have to give a bit of respect for the con posters on this thread today.
They at least showed up to fight for what it is or who it is they believe in.
So far? Sarah Palin is not doing that. Well, at least not outside the company of large approving crowds.
Is she all lipstick and no pitbull? I guess we will see.
American_Way posted September 5, 2008 at 10:48 pm
“She [Palin] added: “And I know up here in Alaska, most every Alaskan believes that ANWR should be drilled, and no one cares more about Alaska’s environment–our lands, our wildlife, our fresh air, our clean water–than Alaskans themselves. And we know that this can be allowed safely, cleanly, ethically–this type of exploration and development of an American supply of energy.” ”
———–
Uh-huh. . .
The Exxon Valdez was transporting Alaska’s North Slope oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill
And a less well known spill, caused by a drunk with a hunting rifle.
‘Alaska clean-up ‘could take years‘
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1584553.stm
And I believe that life begins with the twinkle in the sperm-donor’s eye the minute she first sees the ovum-donor on the other side of the tavern.
But for the purposes of civil law — on such basic issues as, y’know, recognizing life common law starts counting on your day of birth.
You can believe all sorts of things about “when life begins,” but it’s not something politics is good at. Might as well have Congress vote on how many angels can dance on a pin.
Religion, faith, your personal moral compass might help shape a legislator, but mixing theology with public policy corrupts both.
As Monty Python put it: “…strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.”
Very well said!
‘Sarah Palin’s record on environment is abysmal‘
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/377955_palinenvir07.html
that first “she” should be “he,” of course
‘Alaska clean-up ‘could take years’
———————–
So?
It was once underground, now it’s above ground. :D
Sebelius was all dressed up for the prom but not chosen to go to the dance. Now she whines.
The dimos just cannot stand a strong women that is articulate, capable and informed.
Life doesn’t begin anywhere. It is a process which is continual and evolving.
BlueJay
I’ll field it.
“I used to be “pro life”.
And you changed because why?”
“Well because of people like you. You don’t care about life. You care about telling other people what to do, how to live, and what to believe.”
You used to be against killing innocent babies but once you found out that some people think that killing babies was evil you decided to switch sides in favor of killing babies?
““And despite your website where you find maybe a few hundred of your like minded, I have reason and the numbers that brings on my side.”
What is this saying?”
“That you are a marginalized kook who knows you are marginalized but refuses to know you are a kook.”
“I have reason and the numbers that brings on my side”
This is how a liberal baby killer says somebody is a kook?
Evil believes in killing babies and you call me a kook?
Bluejay’s like to kill babies don’t they?
I would not want to be you 50 years from now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE
Kandi you are not pro life. You are anti social.
“If one does not believe life begins at conception, that person does not see abortion as murder.”
brian_nuevo,
That statement is simply asinine….another one I might add.
The baby is either alive or not. If it is not alive it can not develop and grow. To argue the baby is not alive at any point after conception is completely illogical….it’s stupid and dishonest.
How many other subjects do you lie to yourself about to remove guilt for your self-centeredness?
Conception: “is the fusion of gametes to produce a new living organism of the same species. The entire process of development of new individuals is called procreation, the act of species reproduction.”
Abortion is the act of killing another human being to stop it’s growth as a convenience to the mother.
My religion tells me that life begins with the twinkle in the sperm-donor’s eye the minute he first sees the ovum-donor on the other side of the tavern.
But for the purposes of civil law — on such basic issues as, y’know, recognizing life — common law starts counting on your day of birth.
You can believe all sorts of things about “when life begins,” but it’s not something politics is good at. Might as well have Congress vote on how many angels can dance on a pin.
Religion, faith, your personal moral compass might help shape a legislator, but mixing theology with public policy corrupts both.
As Monty Python put it: “…strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.”
“Boxlock
Posted September 6, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink
Abortion is the act of killing another human being to stop it’s growth as a convenience to the mother.”
Box is there still hope your mom will abort you?
My mother has passed away brian.
Does that fact please you?
Or, are you disappointed she is beyond being able to abort, ie kill, another living person?
She was a moral person brian and would never have considered killing defenseless children like you do. How about your mother? Would she kill?
If so she sure missed a good opportunity with you.
#
Boxlock
Posted September 6, 2008 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
My mother has passed away brian.
Does that fact please you?
Or, are you disappointed she is beyond being able to abort, ie kill, another living person?
She was a moral person brian and would never have considered killing defenseless children like you do. How about your mother? Would she kill?
If so she sure missed a good opportunity with you.
————–
Sorry to hear about your mom Box.
But you did stimulate an encouraging thought.
If abortion was legal back when most of these Leftist Lib posters was born, 25 percent of them wouldn’t be here to post. :)
When it comes to governing styles (ie, governing by gut instinct),
Sarah Palin = George W Bush
Are you happy with the overall direction of the USA under the leadership of George W Bush? If so, then you’ll LOVE Sarah Palin!