“It seems apropos that Banned Books Week begins next weekend,” wrote columnist Leonard Pitts, reflecting on the reports of how Sarah Palin asked the Wasilla, Alaska, librarian three times about removing controversial books from the shelves. The American Library Association’s Office for Intellectual Freedom “reports that since 1990 it has seen 9,700 ‘challenges’ — a challenge is defined as a formal written request to remove a book from a library because the content offends or is deemed inappropriate,” Pitts wrote. “Chillingly, the office suggests that’s probably an undercount. It estimates that for every challenge reported, four or five are not.
“So Palin has company, to say the least.”
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295 Comments
And how many books did she ban?
You got nothing but wet panties Philip.
Yeah Phillip, grm says this story is bogus, therefore, it must be.
Yeah, she didn’t have any banned, she just fired the librarian who wouldn’t ban any books as part of her plan to replace her with a librarian who would. It doesn’t take a weatherman to see which way the wind is blowing.
Maggott
“she just fired the librarian ”
A political appointee, one of seven she fired. Common in many state governments including Kansas.
So she DID get the librarian fired? That’s downright shameful.
I will not have someone who is so anti-constitution in that office. NO WAY, NO HOW, NO PALIN!
Also, boxlocked says this story is bogus, ergo…
Well, if you’re a conservative, being afraid of ideas is in your DNA.
P-mom.
“So she DID get the librarian fired?”
As well as 6 other political appointees. Been around small government much?
Heckler, my father was a librarian in Alaska, he was not a political appointee. I was a librarian in Alaska and I was not a political appointee. Where’s this notion that librarians aren’t hired by libraries but by mayors?
Maggott
Apparently in Wasila the librarians job was a political position.
Don’t ask me.
Were did you live up there? My wife spent about 7 years in Alaska.
StevenEDavis
Posted September 23, 2008 at 6:33 am | Permalink
Well, if you’re a conservative, being afraid of ideas is in your DNA.
Must be in lib DNA as well see a lot of fear of ideas that differ from ones particular point of view on both sides
My old best friends’ mom was a crazy, tongue-speaking Pentecostal too. She (and her fellow Assembly of Godlians) burned everything my friend owned…his old Nintendo, his National Geographic’s. The only thing she allowed was his Bible and some Archie comics. Now I know why I am the way I am.
It’s not a question of whether she (Palin) succeeded in getting the book’s banned. It’s the notion that she wanted them to be and tried to do it. Now she’ll have the POWER to get those pesky thoughts killed!!!!! Muahahahahahahah.
Pleefer
“and tried to do it”
And your source for this is…?
Anyone remember Tipper Gore and her campaign against song lyrics?
TEST OF LOYALTY
Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association’s Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed.
Pinell-Stephens also had no record of any phone conversations with Emmons about the issue back then. Emmons was president of the Alaska Library Association at the time.Books may not have been pulled from library shelves, but there were other repercussions for Emmons.
Four days before the exchange at the City Council, Emmons got a letter from Palin asking for her resignation. Similar letters went to police chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton and finance director Duane Dvorak. John Cooper, a fifth director, resigned after Palin eliminated his job overseeing the city museum.
Palin told the Daily News back then the letters were just a test of loyalty as she took on the mayor’s job, which she’d won from three-term mayor John Stein in a hard-fought election. Stein had hired many of the department heads. Both Emmons and Stambaugh had publicly supported him against Palin.
Emmons survived the loyalty test and a second one a few months later. She resigned in August 1999, two months before Palin was voted in for a second mayoral term.
Palin might have become a household name in the last week, but Kilkenny, who is not a Palin fan, is on her own small path to Internet fame. She sent out an e-mail earlier this week to friends and family answering, from her perspective, the question Outsiders are asking any Alaskan they know: “Who is this Sarah Palin?”
Kilkenny’s e-mail got bounced through cyberspace and ended up on news blogs. Now the small-town mom and housewife is scheduling interviews with national news media and got her name on the front page of The New York Times, even if it was misspelled.
——————————————————————————–
Does no one on the left ever look at the real story behind the tales they tell. She could have fired her but didn’t. And yes Steven I cared enough to search for the truth something you have a real problem with.
Political appointments are frequently fired when the new Mayor or elected officer comes on. Especially when they campaigned for the opposition. No Pmom she wasn’t fired. She kept the job until 1999 when she elected to leave. No books were ever banned.
Truth how refreshing. The lefts tactic is to throw it against the wall and see what sticks. In this case nothing did. Just a little Alaskan housewife looking for her 15 minutes of fame.
Freebird you are asking a lot of libs this early in the morning. Tipper Gore tried and failed to clean up rap and hip-hop lyrics.
Phillip.. why do you insist on propagating this lie?
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/09/05/breaking_news/doc48c1c8a60d6d9379155484.txt
http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp
Gawd, you’d think an editor of a newspaper the size of the Wichita Eagle and a part of a large public national newspaper company would think before writing dribble like this.
By your own words you quote the American Library Association; “The American Library Association’s Office for Intellectual Freedom “reports that since 1990 it has seen 9,700 ‘challenges’ — a challenge is defined as a formal written request to remove a book from a library because the content offends or is deemed inappropriate,… Sarah Palin NEVER DID THAT!!!
Palin never even ask that any specific book be removed from the library. You, or anyone else for that matter, is challenged to prove where she did so…and unless you can, please shut the heck up so you don’t look so foolish, or like you are simply a partisan liar!
Just saying people in glass houses should you know what
Man, the lib lie machine is in overdrive. Banning books? Fired the librarian? They keep repeating these lies wanting sooo desparately to believe them.
Must be awfully scared of Palin to keep making up and repeating lies.
“removing controversial books from the shelves”
WHO decides what is “controversial”?
Apparently Sarah Palin felt SHE was judge of that. UNTIL the community rose up and blunted her tyranny.
“My old best friends’ mom was a crazy, tongue-speaking Pentecostal too. She (and her fellow Assembly of Godlians) burned everything my friend owned…”
Oh been there done that. TWO of my good friends from high school got the religion thing. I saved a LIBRARY of music from the trashcan on that deal. Pentecostals like Sarah Palin are kook scary.
bj…check out Snopes for the facts. You are blowing smoke and repeating unsubstantiated lies. Palin never banned any books at all.
Bluejay glad to see you are up and about early this morning. Also glad to see you haven’t changed a bit and are prefectly willing to spread lies to support your warped agenda.
Shouldn’t you be off to work to support your family or something this morning instead of blogging. I know you worry about the time I devote to this passtime.
Poor Leonard Pitts, token black of the Miami Herald. Easy to be a liberal columnist, just take what ever lies are currently being promulgated by the DNC or left-wing BLOGs and craft a partisan column out of them.
The ‘Palin-wanted-to-ban-books’ lie is old news. The Pitts column is even stupid by liberal standards. I guess if you have nothing new, dredge up the old lies. Phillip will bite!
B.J.
“Apparently Sarah Palin felt SHE was judge of that. UNTIL the community rose up and blunted her tyranny.”
Tyranny? Explain.
But YOU’LL be here all day won’t you okobserver?
While you make your living on the work of others?
The only reason Palin banned no books is that she was forcibly confronted by an outraged librarian and community.
bj..you are making things up. According to snopes, Palin never banned or tried to ban any books. You are perpetuating a lie when you know it is a lie. Time to give this one up.
Blue Jay tell us about the confrontation and about Tipper Gore and here wanting to censor song lyrics
Loyalty tests Heckler?
Palin used what she called loyalty tests to vet community staff.
This is the problem with Republicans and why are government is in the state it is. Cons want people who are on message.
Whether they are qualified or not. In fact, the less qualified and the more loyal the better.
“bj..you are making things up. ”
Hardly.
Palin asked multiple times about removing books from the library.
Blue Jay,
Please tell us aabout the confrontation and the difference between Palin and Tipper Gore other than the media they were trying to control
B.J.
Loyalty tests are common in government where positions are filled by elected officials.
Firing a political appointee who actively campaigned against you would be SOP for any elected official. It’s the way of politics from the township level to the top of the federal government. Appointees know this when they take said position.
You need to get out a little.
It’s amazing how the press is attacking Palin even more so then McCain.
And where are any attacks being made on Obama?
The press is like a bad dog – ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!
BlueJay
Posted September 23, 2008 at 7:28 am | Permalink
But YOU’LL be here all day won’t you okobserver?
While you make your living on the work of others?
The only reason Palin banned no books is that she was forcibly confronted by an outraged librarian and community.
—————————
BJ it really frosts you that I was able to retire and blog all day if I feel like it doesn’t it. It’s actually a full time job putting the kabosh on all of your lies. Must hurt to be you this morning.
Freebird don’t ever expect Blowhard to ever admit he lies, spreads other lies, doesn’t have a credible thought of his own or will ever admit that a liberal was guilty of censorship. Tipper must have had a conservative pulling her strings.
Blowhard says that “Palin asked multiple times about removing books from the library.” He knows this because he was in the meetings where this happened. Afterall Maggot was a librarian in Alaska as was his dad and before the day is over I am sure Chas will have known the mayor who preceeded Palin so we will get the ‘real’ story.
Heck, even the TIAHRT AMENDMENT is attacked less then Palin!
Asking about procedures of removing books and banning them are two entirely different things.
so, are you finally admitting she did not actually BAN any books as the initial lib lies claimed?
The Liar will not admit to being a Liar.
But he likes the attention this game will bring to him all day long.
I guess it’s Brownlee’s blog and if he is in the tank for Obama, he is in the tank for Obama.
The big controversy in libraries now is internet filtering. It makes “banned books week” look like tiddly winks. Whether all, I mean all, the trash on the internet should be available to anyone or whether internet filtering is permissible. The American Library Association has a problem with any kind of filtering.
My comment is that not all books and publications are deemed worthy of the public library. And certainly not all the content of internet is either. We should set our public institution’s standards higher.
If folks want to look at that kind of thing, go home and view it in private.
Who said I was pickin on lil JR yesterday?
JR, self-proclaimed savior of the world, can’t stand up for himself?
SUPER DUD!
“Raptor” tries –
“Asking about procedures of removing books and banning them are two entirely different things.”
The Moose-Dresser “asked” the librarian three separate times about removing books. What? Had she forgotten the first two answers?
It’s a passive-aggressive intimidation technique.
Once is happenstance.
Twice is coincidence.
Three times is enemy action.
StevenEDavis Posted September 23, 2008 at 6:26 am |
“Also, boxlocked says this story is bogus, ergo…”
Steven,
If you’d quit wearing you rectum where your mouth should be I would converse with you.
Instead I offer you a challange…’put-up or shut-up’!
Prove Sarah Palin banned a single book, prove Sarah Palin got one book removed from the library, prove Sarah Palin fired the librarian, show where Sarah Palin did not have the executive authority to fire city employees as mayor if she wanted do do so, show where Sarah Palin specified she would like any specific title book removed.
You can’t…..I’m waiting, and I hope everyone else is also.
As I said, put up or shut up about this!
A real American leader would have explained to the protester that we don’t ban books. The Taliban does, the Mullahs do, but we do not.
and just what books were banned by this ‘enemy action’ mh? None? Ohh, minor detail in the lib lie litany, isn’t it?
“My comment is that not all books and publications are deemed worthy of the public library. And certainly not all the content of internet is either. We should set our public institution’s standards higher.”
With people like you, Sarah Palin, okobsever and other assorted cons setting the standards?
Thanks, no.
“Asking about procedures of removing books and banning them are two entirely different things. ”
But who even ASKS about such a thing?
We cannot know for sure what books Palin would have pulled had she not been forcibly confronted. But there is a great deal of supposition.
Perhaps one of you cons would care to find one of the books in question and show us just why it is not fit reading material?
By the way.
The librarian was President of the Alaska Library Association and would have known about the American Library Association’s policy for documenting requests to remove or ban books. The American Library Association can’t find one instance this accusation occurred.
Is it now against the DimLibs law to have an opinion and express it or to ask questions?
Well?
To really understand, we’d need to know Gov. Palin’s intent when each of the three times she asked a subordinate (note: Palin is known for firing people who cross her) banning books her church members didn’t like.
And since Palin is no longer available except for tightly controlled, staged events…
The more those that try to make something out of this continue to do so the more they make themselves look insignificant and petty.
But, I guess those folks have done so time and time again around here on many numerous occasions.
Con wall banger Sean Hannity asked her about it.
Of course, she used the same dodge her flacks use here.
She didn’t actually ban any books.
But that is only because she was stood up to.
The librarian got fired after the refused requests, apparently…
“Though then-librarian Mary Ellen Baker tells ABC News Palin didn’t specifically ask her to censor any specific titles, journalist Paul Stuart attests that Baker, who was later fired….”
“who was later fired.” HA!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/reporter-sarah-palin-trie_n_125418.html
“Boxlock” –
“…insignificant and petty?”
Yeah.
It’s not a substantive issue like porcine cosmetics, which got John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) in a hissy fit last week. (seems longer ago, doesn’t it?)
Besides the obvious continued attack on constitutional rights, the library anecdotes speak to the Moose-Dresser’s penchant for abuse of power; political bullying.
But, given your desire to rise above the “insignificant and petty,” let’s drop it. Let’s talk substance:
Share with the forum your views on the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.
Blowhard BJ asks “Perhaps one of you cons would care to find one of the books in question and show us just why it is not fit reading material?”
Perhaps one of you libs would furnish those ‘those books in question’ and the documentation that she asked to have it banned.
You can’t prove a negative.
Idiot.
David the woman herself said she quit in 1999 to move to Anchorage. But I’m sure in the lib bible she was wrong. Stupid woman.
Monkey can you tweak your memory a little and remember a recent president (I’ll give you a clue – It isn’t Bush) who fired the entire justice department when he took office.
Political appointees all. Oh but he was a lib so there is a different set of rules.
I hope the left just keeps piling it on. Everytime they do the McCain ticket goes up. Did you see the breakdown on the swing states yesterday?
Give it your best shot. It’s all you have.
Monkey
Commodity Futures should only be traded by people who can prove they actually have the means of shipping/receiving said commodity.
Anything else is just legalized gambling.
Folks, give it up. People like Heckler, Raptor, Germie etc. have decided John McCain needs to be president and the election is way too close for them to examine the facts objectiviely. They will rationalize anything and everything away.
The facts and general climate of what happened in Wasilla Alaska (not just the controversy over the books) are, within reason, pretty well established at this point. Arguing with these dishonest spinmeisters is a pointless waste of time.
One thing I will note, though, as a general point in favor of First Amendment freedoms. There are longstanding procedure in place to determine what books are placed in a library. There are no procedures for removing individual books, for obvious reasons, nor do politicians have any say in such things, for even more obvious reasons.
What, “okobserver?” –
Nothing about the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000?!
I’m stunned.
And you bone-dig to 1993 with –
“…a recent president (I’ll give you a clue – It isn’t Bush) who fired the entire justice department when he took office.”
Fifteen years is only “recent” in geologic terms.
And nearly every incoming administration — certainly when there’s a party change appoints its own DOJ staff.
Shrub’s mid-term firings of US Attorneys has been pretty much established to be political punishment for those Bush-appointees who didn’t abuse their offices for partisan Republic Party purposes. You know that.
Even you should know better.
Even you should know how desperate you appear.
Remember that “recent” TV show everyone was talking about? “Seinfeld?”
Remember that “recent” new hot stock? pets.com?
Yeah, I remember.
And your attempt to divert the thread is duly noted.
Why don’t we work together and stop sinking into what your friend “Boxlock” deems “insignificant and petty” non-issues.
Let’s discuss, say, the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000.
The ball’s in your court.
Blue Jay,
Please tell us aabout the confrontation and the difference between Palin and Tipper Gore other than the media they were trying to control
A curiously odd statement. I don’t anyone here would endorse the indefensible tactics of the PMRC, at least those who are old enough to remember.
Banning books (assuming that’s what you’re talking about) is worse.
Rage
Posted September 23, 2008 at 8:58 am | Permalink
Blue Jay,
Please tell us aabout the confrontation and the difference between Palin and Tipper Gore other than the media they were trying to control
A curiously odd statement. I don’t anyone here would endorse the indefensible tactics of the PMRC, at least those who are old enough to remember.
Banning books (assuming that’s what you’re talking about) is worse.
………………………………..
Except Palin didn’t try to ban anything, Gore did.
Monkey who was the prez right before the one we have now? That is recent to me.
Mid terms firings went no where with your do nothing dems. It was shown for the partisan bone dig it was.
I have never been totally behind McCain but the more I know about Obama the more I support McCain.
Only a lib would call me a ’spinmeister’ when they are supporting a lie. You guys are too funny for words.
As for the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000 I am no Phil Gramm fan. But please don’t ignore the prez who actually signed the bill. He could have stopped it and didn’t.
So on to the next argument.
Bet the number of challenges issued to librarians, would be in the handfuls.
“But, given your desire to rise above the “insignificant and petty,” let’s drop it. Let’s talk substance:”
I should hope, as there is nothing to the Palin/Library ’scandal’. I see know one has come forth with any documented proof.
Other than knowing Bush vetoed the bill, but was overridden by both the House and Senate, I am not familiar with ALL aspect of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act to feel comfortable offering an opinion.
I tend to agree with Heckler though on what he mentioned, commodity Futures should only be traded by people who actually have the means of shipping/receiving said commodity. At least it should be minimized. Anything else is just legalized gambling.”
As I view APMEX, Kitco, CNI and other precious metals sites, I see one can hardly find silver to purchase. And what is there is over spot price. In other words, paper silver is one price, physical silver another.
I believe the futures market and specifically short selling, and worse, naked short selling, is driving costs up simply for speculative profit.
Not unlike the housing bubble situation.
“Perhaps one of you libs would furnish those ‘those books in question’ and the documentation that she asked to have it banned.”
Crone?
I’ve posted as to some of the suggested titles before.
It is YOU and your candidate ok with even the suggestion of banning books. Perhaps you can tell us why these books or any books are objectionable?
The fact that there IS no specific list is even more chilling.
One imagines Palin exercising literary fiat over the population of Wasilla Alaska, or the United States of America….
What WOULD be allowed in that library?
Except Palin didn’t try to ban anything, Gore did.
I see the morons are out in full force.
The above quote is known as a “red herring,” so called as it’s used, like a dead fish, to lead one off the scent.
Adding an obvious misstatement(the PMRC didn’t try to “ban” anything) is supposed to create further interest in the distraction, by inviting a factual correction.
But you what, moron? Those who aren’t in the tank for McCain already know what Palin is.
This whole discussion is a distraction.
#Phantom Posted September 23, 2008 at 9:07 am |
“Bet the number of challenges issued to librarians, would be in the handfuls.”
The American Library Association’s Office for Intellectual Freedom “reports that since 1990 it has seen 9,700 ‘challenges’. (from the threads beginning)
Rage..your accusation is completely false. Where did I ever say anything about voting for anyone? I am trying to get a few people to recognize that this book banning smear campaign is nothing but a lie. How does that automatically transfer to a vote? Not sure how you equate that.
Personally, I prefer Ron Paul, but that doesn’t mean I am going to sit and watch complete falsehoods go unchallenged.
My source?
It says it in the headline…
“Leonard Pitts, reflecting on the reports of how Sarah Palin asked the Wasilla, Alaska, librarian three times about removing controversial books from the shelves.”
She asked three times…isn’t that trying?
I don’t get what you want…it’s the topic of discussion.
Ok…”if she did” try…jeez.
There’s flies all over BOTH sides of your political horse crap pile. There’s no one to believe in, in this “race” except a nobody third partier.
“Heckler” offers –
“Commodity Futures should only be traded by people who can prove they actually have the means of shipping/receiving said commodity.
Anything else is just legalized gambling.
So would you advocate repealing the CFMA, “Heckler?”
BlueJay posts;
” Crone? I’ve posted as to some of the suggested titles before.”
BlueJay, what you post, and what you claim, and your opinion is less than worthless around here unless you document what you say.
Do you understand that? Don’t make statements unsupported unless you want to be laughed at.
But how many Librarians have been challenged with threat to their employment, or even asked how would you react to banning some books?
Sigh… Here is a story in the Anchorage Daily News:
WASILLA — “Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so.
According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go.
Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.”
More at: http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html
This was 12 years ago.. recollections are bound to be unclear.. but this has a definite stink to it…
But it sure takes the attention off of John McCain, as was the plan, I am sure… is Palin merely McCain’s lightning rod? -db
Another obvious BrownLib contribution to the Obama campaign.
I wonder if the Publisher approves? Perhaps so.
Maybe they should rename the paper to the Chicago South Edition, specializing in Obama news, Obama praise and worshiping, Obama polls, Obama the Messiah, Obama the ‘One’ and of course Obama can have crooks has friends and nothing stinks about that.
Rage-”I see the morons are out in full force.”
I also noticed the distinct sulfurous stench of the American Liberal as I have read these threads and this paper.
It is sad that the Liberals have only rumors and falsehoods to smear a VP candidate. You seem less concerned about the actual Prez. candidate.
Monkey
“So would you advocate repealing the CFMA, “Heckler?””
Not familiar with it. I just know that for the most part futures trading is just gambling. Another way for someone to make money out of thin air.
“Don’t make statements unsupported unless you want to be laughed at.”
You may laugh at whatever you like.
YOU have been busted more than once in a bogus link or an outright lie. I have not.
What books would YOU ban boxlock? Why WOULD anyone ask about removing books from a library?
Rage..your accusation is completely false.
Really? Ron Paul? Good for you.
But why should I believe you, when you make moronic statements like these?:
Man, the lib lie machine is in overdrive. Banning books? Fired the librarian? They keep repeating these lies wanting sooo desparately to believe them.
Fact: Palin did ask the librarian about removing books, and was fired that same week. She was restored to her position after a public outcry. The Frontiersman prominently reported on these things at the time.
Fact: Frontiersman columnist Paul Stuart states (maybe he’s lying?) that Mary Ellen Emmons told him three books were named by the mayor.
One can certainly make judgments as to the motives of various parties and/or the veracity of statements made. But that you would call those basic facts “lies” does not speak well of you.
Hey Boxlock,
BlueJay is a chronic liar. The old saying, “Tell a lie long enough and people will believe it.” is apprapo to jr. Only, he tells a lie so often that he begins to believe it.
In fact, he lies so much that his whole life has become a lie.
P.S. Raptor, you, of all people, should be able to read between the lines with these types. Have you not had enough of their antics in Kansas?
Marty Fufkin posts,
“I also noticed the distinct sulfurous stench of the American Liberal as I have read these threads and this paper.
It is sad that the Liberals have only rumors and falsehoods to smear a VP candidate. You seem less concerned about the actual Prez. candidate.”
AMEN BROTHER!!!
And notice not one has met my challange to come up with even one documented piece of evidence that Sarah Palin banned a single book, prove Sarah Palin got one book removed from the library, prove Sarah Palin fired the librarian, show where Sarah Palin did not have the executive authority to fire city employees as mayor if she wanted do do so, show where Sarah Palin specified she would like any specific title book removed.
Their accusations are petty falsehoods because they are peeing their pants over her.
You seem less concerned about the actual Prez. candidate.
Ha! You wish!
“What books would YOU ban boxlock? Why WOULD anyone ask about removing books from a library?”
Listen imbecile, that’s you BlueJay, maybe because she wanted to hear the answer.
Obama…What a two faced liar!!!
Check out this website….
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=obama+lies+to+america&hl=en&emb=0&aq=1&oq=Obama+Lies#
Can’t expect from Junior, Hank. After all, he has the identical ideology of the Nazi party is aborting Down’s syndrome children in the woman and of course other children with deformities of mind or body. Lord help these little children that they might some day grow up and be a Steven Hawking. I mean you know Junior would be for diagnosing any thing that might cause a disability such as Lou Gehrig’s disease, which is what Hawking has and then scraping that vermin out of the mother’s womb.
“Heckler” admits, re: CFMA –
“Not familiar with it. I just know that for the most part futures trading is just gambling. Another way for someone to make money out of thin air.”
Well that’s droll.
“The Google” is your friend.
Do you CONs willfully ignore issues that affect your lives or are you just lazy?
Happy Banned Books Week, Folks!
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5766173&page=1
Hey Regular,
Correct! If you want to know jr’s position on any issue, all yo have to do is figure out how it effects him (and him alone) personally right now.
Chas., the good reverand of the ‘Church of What Feels Good Now’ is an appropriate mentor for him and other libs on the BLOG.
“….it was only a “rhetorical question” and that she did not ask for any books to be banned.”
End of Story.
Rage
Go change your panties.
#
Boxlock
Posted September 23, 2008 at 9:32 am | Permalink
And notice not one has met my challange to come up with even one documented piece of evidence that Sarah Palin banned a single book,
__________________________________________________
Boxlock, I don’t believe anybody said Palin banned any books.
Found this article, must be about Rage, because it happened in Arizona and America’s Most Wanted Web Page doesn’t specifically state it isn’t Rage, so I can assume it must be. Don’t really need any real proof, just accusation you know.
“Serial Rapist Strikes Again
On June 8, 2007, cops in Chandler, Ariz. received a burglary-in-progress call to the Kon Tiki Motor Home Park located at 555 West Warner Road. The caller told authorities that they believed the perpetrator was none other than the unknown serial child rapist who has been terrorizing Chandler for over a year.”
Since Rage lives in Arizona, one can put two and two together.
After all, we don’t need no stinkin’ evidence or facts, we can just make accusations.
BlueJay,
Sorry about calling you an imbecile. I suppose it’s alright to think it, but not polite to say it. I guess I’m honest to a fault.
By the way, show me where “YOU (meaning me) have been busted more than once in a bogus link or an outright lie. I have not.”
The only time that has happened, and very few, is when I forwarded on something I was emailed from normally reliable sources.
I work BlueJay, even while posting to this blog, and the blog takes secondary or less importance. Somethings I just pass it on. Maybe if I regarded the DimLibs in higher esteem I would devote more time to it but it’s simply not worth it to me. Got it?
Here, chew on this for awhile.
Uncharacteristically low turnout for Barack Obama rally in Green Bay, Wisc.
McCain/Palin drew 4,000 more supporters at same venue a week ago.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1178184,obamarally092208.article
Saw on the local news last night, one of my favorite Steinbeck books ‘Of Mice and Men’ was being challenged by a black woman because of the use of the N word.
“Arguing with these dishonest spinmeisters is a pointless waste of time.”
Truer words were never posted!
What I dont trust about polls is the high number of undecideds they cite.
I think very few folks are undecided at this point. Like I said during the obamamania in the primaries, people will ALWAYS “go home” to their party in the general.
No matter how much you bleat “hope” and “change”.
And these cons are the folks obama thinks he can “work with”?
heheheh. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!
Like Ron White says, “you cant fix stupid”. The willfully ignorant will just ignore facts, or give the usual “that is not a pipe” response.
You cant work with folks who ignore the facts. Unless by “work with” you mean, “burn ‘em down to the ground and then salt the ground underneath them so they dont grow again”.
That’s the only kind of “work with” you can do with the willfully ignorant.
Or the stupid, as the case may be.
OK, Regular,
That was beyond the pale. First you must post it on a reputable BLOG like the Huffington Post. Then you have a reliable source you can link.
Saw on the local news last night, one of my favorite Steinbeck books ‘Of Mice and Men’ was being challenged by a black woman because of the use of the N word.
The same thing has happened with Mark Twain, repeatedly. It’s unfortunate, as both authors were clearly hostile to racism (’Huckleberry Finn’ is a masterpiece in that respect).
And while we are on the subject of the porcine, here’s another little piggy comment.
“Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it only annoys the pig”.
I think we are just annoying the cons here. And I KNOW it only wastes my time.
Since KFG chooses to take this further in a pointless partisan insult direction, I find it laughable that she, and yes, you Rage would pretend to sit as arbiter of truth and spin.
Someone help them up. They fell off their high horsey.
#
HLP
Posted September 23, 2008 at 10:11 am | Permalink
OK, Regular,
That was beyond the pale. First you must post it on a reputable BLOG like the Huffington Post. Then you have a reliable source you can link.
———————————
Yeah, my bad Hank, next time I’ll provide a link to a Lib Webpage so as to turn my accusation into solid fact.
Unless by “work with” you mean, “burn ‘em down to the ground and then salt the ground underneath them so they dont grow again”.
What is with all the hate from the left leaners? You know I have heard more about death and destruction comming from the ‘left’ these past few months than the combined 3 years I’ve been posting here from the right leaners.
Hate isn’t healthy.
“You cant work with folks who ignore the facts.”
See WE Blog Editors.
“Boxlock, I don’t believe anybody said Palin banned any books.”
XXX,
That statement or insinuation as been made repeatedly over the course of the last several days.
There is nothing to it.
L. Pitts, “I’d simply ask which books she wants to ban — and why.”
And, “The ALA’s Office for Intellectual Freedom reports that since 1990 it has seen 9,700 “challenges” — a challenge is defined as a formal written request to remove a book from a library because the content offends or is deemed inappropriate. Chillingly, the office suggests that’s probably an undercount. It estimates that for every challenge reported, four or five are not.
So Palin has company, to say the least.”
Pitts is most definitely placing Palin in the book banning category, certainly by association at least.
And, the list of titles floating around the Internet right now, it’s a fake.
I dont see it as hate, Sol. I see it as reality. These goddam deregulation and christian taliban vampires will keep coming back until a stake is driven through their hearts.
Read the comments. You think these folks can be “worked with”?
I dont. And obama is a fool if he thinks so. If he’s really that dumb, he should not be elected. And neither should mcsame, who clearly IS that dumb.
Obama thinks all this kumbaya crap will get him elected. It wont.
But of course, if he loses, it will be Hillary’s fault. Anyone’s fault but his. The stakes are high this time, with two SCOTUS appointments likely in the next term…
…and obama wants to futz around singing kumbaya?
The risk isnt worth it.
Rage would pretend to sit as arbiter of truth and spin.
Outie, when you have people telling you that the basic circumstances of a dispute, i.e. those facts which are not disputed by anyone who was present, are “lies,” it doesn’t take a Solomon to see the light.
The primary “argument” (it can be accorded that much respect) of this thread is “Palin didn’t ban any books!”
No one has said Palin banned any books.
This kind of rhetorical silliness isn’t worth my time, or anyone else’s.
Banning books (assuming that’s what you’re talking about) is worse. Rage
How so? Are they not both forms of censorship?
Oh Blue Jay,
Still afraid to answer a straight on question?
heckie, outie, reggie, et al.
The folks YOU want to elect represent “more of the same”. How’s that workin’?
Yes, with the ox in the ditch, let’s just keep doing what we are doing and expect different results.
Remember, if you keep doing what you are doing, you will get what you got.
I guess you like what you got, since you want to put/keep in power the same folks who brought you the iraq war money pit, the Katrina response, the sanctioned spying on Americans, and the current financial meltdowns.
“Please sir, may I have another”.
That must be what you say to yourself, all the way to the voting booth.
By all means, let’s elect more of the same…
Like mcsame saying, in an article published THIS WEEK, that he wants to do to health care the same thing he takes credit for doing to banking.
Jesus WEPT!
“I dont see it as hate, Sol. I see it as reality. These goddam deregulation and christian taliban vampires will keep coming back until a stake is driven through their hearts.”
I do not profess to be an expert on hate, however the above appears to sound like hate. “christian taliban vampires”? Where are these people? This reeks like Liberal drama queen tactics. You can’t expect others to take you serious with comments like those.
How so? Are they not both forms of censorship?
Banning a book makes it impossible to buy. Assuming it’s an effective ban, that means close to a 100% loss for the author.
Labeling an album causes certain stores not to carry it and certain harpiee to make sure their teenagers and others can’t get it. It hurts the artists financially—but not as bad as a total ban would.
Morever, there will be those who purchase said albums as a protest against such tactics, and to vindicate their right to buy. This actually happened when corporate record- labeling was first instituted.
Yes, they are both forms of censorship. What’s your point?
Like Ron White says, “you cant fix stupid”. The willfully ignorant will just ignore facts, or give the usual “that is not a pipe” response. -kfg
———–
In an ironic twist on “you can’t fix stupid” and “that is not a pipe”, I offer this ahem…shocker:
“Pilots feel vindicated after comic Ron White’s drug arrest”
“They allegedly wore oxygen masks to avoid being impaired”
“White surrendered the less than three grams of marijuana and SMALL GLASS SMOKING PIPE he was carrying on him in a small bag, and he consented to a body search, Morrison said.”
http://www.accessatlanta.com/entertainment/content/entertainment/stories/2008/09/11/ron_white_drug_charges.html
Flying can be stressful.
The SCOTUS appointees still have to be approved by the Senate.
The problems we face today are far from partisan. All three branches have their fingers in the mess. To try to lay blame 1)does not solve the problem 2)detracts attention and time from the problem and 3)is patry line politics which has never been productive.
“Fact: Palin did ask the librarian about removing books, and was fired that same week. She was restored to her position after a public outcry.”
Rage you say this is a fact your friend DavidB upstream post a ‘link’ from an Alaskan paper saying:
“According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go.”
Fired the same week – fired a few months later. Ummm do you see why the liblie links have no substance.
So when was she fired? You story of lies is falling apart.
samkan
Posted September 23, 2008 at 7:03 am | Permalink
Phillip.. why do you insist on propagating this lie?
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/09/05/breaking_news/doc48c1c8a60d6d9379155484.txt
Thanks for posting that, samkan. The Frontiersman has finally digitized the original article, and it’s at the link above.
It’s a quick read, and a disturbing one. Check it out.
I find any attempt to ban books to the public disgusting. There are many books I find terribly offensive, however I would not wish them to be banned. I do not see any attempt from Palin to ban anything. The evidence isn’t there to support it. Lets move past this.
My point is censorship is censorship. Ain’t no grey areas
Germie, you imbecile:
<i.our days before the exchange at the City Council, Emmons got a letter from Palin asking for her resignation. Similar letters went to police chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton and finance director Duane Dvorak. John Cooper, a fifth director, resigned after Palin eliminated his job overseeing the city museum.
Palin told the Daily News back then the letters were just a test of loyalty as she took on the mayor’s job, which she’d won from three-term mayor John Stein in a hard-fought election. Stein had hired many of the department heads. Both Emmons and Stambaugh had publicly supported him against Palin.
Emmons survived the loyalty test and a second one a few months later. She resigned in August 1999, two months before Palin was voted in for a second mayoral term.
“I think we are just annoying the cons here. And I KNOW it only wastes my time.”
Annoyed? Hardly. I do find it amusing that a perfectly delightful and intelligent woman can’t seem to engage in political debate without all the name calling and bitterness.
My point is censorship is censorship. Ain’t no grey areas.
Gee, that’s nice. So you decided, for some reason, that the PRMC episode needed a mention. . why?
Just celebrating Banned Book Week?
Just look at the librarian statement re. this issue, something about ‘that’s a difficult time in her life she doesn’t care to revisit’, translation the gov. has far reach.
Obama is NO friend of the First Amendment. Obama has tried, very hard, to limit any type of speech directed against him:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/obama_campaign_confronts_wgn_r.html
Its good to see the Cons opposing book banning usually they are on the other side of this issue.
TomPaine
Posted September 23, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
Its good to see the Cons opposing book banning usually they are on the other side of this issue.
=======
What? I have seen NO “con” say, “Ban it!!!, Burn it!!”
Since we have people here who like to argue over the tiniest rhetorical details, here is the Frontiersman reprint–the first news story on Palin and the library–in it’s entirely, from samkan’s linke, without comment:
*******************
WASILLA — In the wake of strong reactions from the city’s library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.”
Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October – once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association.
*
The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.
Emmons drew a clear distinction Saturday between the nature of Palin’s inquiries and an established book-challenge policy in place in Wasilla, and in most public libraries.
“I’m not trying to suppress anyone’s views,” Emmons said. “But I told her (Palin) clearly, I will fight anyone who tries to dictate what books can go on the library shelves.”
Palin said Monday she had no particular books or other material in mind when she posed the questions to Emmons.
Emmons said in the first conversation, before being sworn in as mayor, Palin briefly touched on the subject of censorship.
But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all? the city’s department heads as a way of expressing loyalty.
“This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy,” Emmons stressed Saturday. “She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can’t be in the library.”
Monday Palin said in a written statement she was only trying to get aquatinted with her staff at the time. “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature,” Palin added.
Emmons recalled that the Oct. 28 conversation she pulled no punches with her response to the mayor.
“She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied ‘Yup’,” Emmons recounted Saturday. “And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) would get involved, too.”
Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book. “I told her it would definitely be a problem the ACLU would take on then,” Emmons said
Asked who she thought might picket the library, Palin said Monday, “Had no one in mind … again, the issue was discussed in the context of a professional question being asked in regards to library policy.
“All questions posed to Wasilla’s library director were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city. Obviously the issue of censorship is a library question… you ask a library director that type of question,” Palin said
“Palin also said Monday censorship issues would not involve any departments other than the library.
Emmons said she has been offered help if it is ever needed on censorship issues from the state library association’s Intellectual Freedom Committee and the National Freedom to Read Foundation.
Palin called Emmons into her office Monday to discuss the censorship questions again.
Palin also attended Friday’s staff meeting at the library, but without mentioning censorship , Emmons said.
“I’m hoping it was just a trial balloon,” Emmons said, “because the free exchange of information is my main job, and I’ll fight anyone who tries to interfere with that.”
The timing of the issue comes at a time when Emmons is trying to get the book-challenge policies of the Wasilla Library and of the Palmer City Library in line with the Mat-Su Borough policy, revised in December of last year.
Emmons described the new borough policy as “a very good one.”
It is a step-by-step blueprint of procedures for anyone wanting to challenge the selection and availability of library material, Emmons explained. “it is a good process, and almost all public libraries have one.”
The borough’s policy was revised mainly to replace the borough manager as the final decision maker with a formal Reconsideration Committee Mat-Su Borough Manager Don Moore said Saturday that changes were made, with the blessings, after a dispute that was resolved about two years ago involving a challenged book at the Big Lake Library.
Emmons said the current Wasilla policy, which she described as written in more general terms than the borough’s, also worked procedurally in a book-challenge case last year. Emmons said then-council-woman Palin was distressed about the issue when it came up, indicating she was aware of the city’s book-challenge policy.
Emmons said in the conversations with now-Mayor Palin in October, she reminded her again that the city has a policy in place. “But it seamed clear to me that wasn’t really what she was talking about anyhow,” Emmons added. “I just hope it doesn’t come up again.”
Meanwhile, Emmons said she is working with borough libraries boss Bruce Urban and Palmer Library Director Janice Sanford, in the hope of getting the cities to adopt a book-challenge policy identical to the borough’s.
Obama threatened a radio station, and its advertisers, I posted that, above.
Obama also threatened TV stations which aired advertising Obama did not like:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/25/obama-threatens-tv-stations-airing-ayers-ad/
“The Obama campaign launched a multipronged assault on the First Amendment when it threatened television and radio stations airing content critical of Mr. Obama. The first targets were TV stations running an advertisement that has proven embarrassing to the presidential candidate. The ad focuses on Mr. Obama’s 13-year relationship with Bill Ayers, a key member of the 1970s domestic terrorist group, the Weather Underground. The Weathermen bombed at least 12 locations, including the U.S. Capitol in 1971, the Pentagon in 1972 and the State Department in 1975. A 1970 San Francisco bombing killed one police officer and blinded another. The same year, three Weathermen perished in a Greenwich Village townhouse explosion. Unrepentant, Mr. Ayers told a New York Times reporter in remarks published on Sept. 11, 2001: “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.”
A group called American Issues Project paid for the ad to run on several TV stations in key battleground states. Press accounts say some of the stations are owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group, for whom I work.
Another Obama target is Chicago radio station WGN. The source of Mr. Obama’s ire is talk-show host Stanley Kurtz who is no Friend of Barry. The Obama campaign has urged supporters to attack WGN for permitting Mr. Kurtz to practice his profession.
Obama campaign lawyer Robert Bauer warned TV stations against airing the ad he claimed of containing “malicious falsity.” Mr. Bauer’s repeated demands that the Justice Department intervene is an example of an intrusion the First Amendment was crafted to guard against and the type of heavy-handed tactics Mr. Obama criticized in Kenya. But in 2006, Mr. Obama was the recipient of exclusively fawning media coverage. Reporters from CNN, AP, BBC, Reuters, a pair of Chicago TV stations and dozens of international and local media accompanied Mr. Obama on his Kenya visit.
Mr. Bauer called those behind the ads “lawbreakers” and accused them of acting “illegally.” Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor labeled the ad “false.”
Television stations typically have procedures in place to guard against airing patently false or grossly misleading ads. Generally, stations err on the side of running the commercials. The onus of responsibility to pull an ad usually falls on the complaining party to make their case. That the Obama camp has not challenged the content of the ad using established mechanisms speaks volumes. (Of note, if media outlets did not publish or broadcast ads that may be dubious, questionable or open to interpretation, then very few political ads would ever see the light of day.)
The Obama campaign’s insistence on government intervention is reminiscent of a similar threat made by a John Kerry campaign official during the 2004 presidential race. At issue was “Stolen Honor,” a documentary film featuring 13 former Vietnam POWs, including two Medal of Honor recipients, who took issue with statements made by Mr. Kerry during their captivity and during the 2004 campaign. Mr. Kerry supporters branded the former POWs liars. ”
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/03/first-amendment-targeted/
KFG says “wah wah wah wah, whaw wha whaw”.
Simple FACT Girl- Palin did not try to ban any books. Feel free to offer evidence to the contrary if you have it.
From the article looks like palin was putting lipstick on the pig.
Rage
So what book did Palin try to ban?
Rage you need to take a cold shower. You really are heating up too much. What exactly was your post supposed to be saying. You guys tell so many lies that you lose track of your last one.
No book banning. No titles mentioned. No librarian fired. No story.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/palin-has-company-on-book-banning/#comment-430453
“Steven,
“If you’d quit wearing you rectum where your mouth should be I would converse with you.
“Instead I offer you a challange…’put-up or shut-up’! Prove Sarah Palin banned a single book…”
How could anyone turn down such a charming offer? Do you guys know that this stuff you write is here for a long time? Shaking my head…
As far as proving that Palin banned a book, I don’t think I ever made the claim that she did. What is claimed is that she “asked” about banning books in the library three times. This came from the report of “witnesses” according to this New York Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=palin,%20library,%20banning%20books&st=cse&oref=slogin
*****
Witnesses and contemporary news accounts say Ms. Palin asked the librarian about removing books from the shelves. The McCain-Palin presidential campaign says Ms. Palin never advocated censorship.
But in 1995, Ms. Palin, then a city councilwoman, told colleagues that she had noticed the book “Daddy’s Roommate” on the shelves and that it did not belong there, according to Ms. Chase and Mr. Stein. Ms. Chase read the book, which helps children understand homosexuality, and said it was inoffensive; she suggested that Ms. Palin read it.
“Sarah said she didn’t need to read that stuff,” Ms. Chase said. “It was disturbing that someone would be willing to remove a book from the library and she didn’t even read it.”
*****
Do we know this happened for sure. We do not. Eye witnesses said it did. That much we know.
For conservatives to claim to be the arbiters of truth is just plain laughable. You prove that on daily baisis here and other places. Keep up the good work. We rational people really appreciate it.
Now, with that diversion settled, let’s get to something more important. How is Sarah Palin prepared to be the a heart beat away from the presidency. Don’t want to talk about that? Somehow I am not surprised.
(AP) The apartment of David Kernell, 20, the son of Rep. Mike Kernell, D-Memphis, was searched by the FBI in connection to the hacking of Gov. Palin’s email.
Just another example of partisan dirty tricks. Lies, hacking email, etc. What a fun time…
Just another example of partisan dirty tricks. Lies, hacking email, etc. What a fun time…
Some 20-year-old hacker-wannabe googles the security answer to Palin’s account, and this is a “partisan dirty trick.”
Right. Were the Anonymous group’s attacks on Scientology “partisan” too?
By the way, this entire “book banning” story is bogus.
But, an interesting development?
OBAMA is behind much of the “whisper campaign” against Sarah Palen, even the really rough stuff.
Several Blogs figured out that “Ethan Winner” was behind an “atro turf” internet/youtube attack on Palin. It is also very clear that Axelrod, Obama’s campaign manager, is connected to Winner:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194180.php
After Jawa, Free Republic, and Malkin and several others jumped on this story, guess what happened?
Stuff about “Astro Turf” campaigns got deleted from Wikipedia.
Axelrod deleted “Astro Turf” references from his bio, on his own web pages.
Many other items that linked Obama, Axelrod, Winner and some of these awful, dispicable FALSE internet ads have also been deleted.
However, many “screen captures” prove that Obama’s close confidants were very involved in these false rumors.
BJ
YOU are a LIAR:
“BlueJay
Posted September 23, 2008 at 7:28 am | Permalink
But YOU’LL be here all day won’t you okobserver?
While you make your living on the work of others?
The only reason Palin banned no books is that she was forcibly confronted by an outraged librarian and community.”
—–
This NEVER happened! Show us the newspaper account of any such “confrontation” would you?
You are full of crap, and you don’t care. That makes you shameless, and it also makes you irrelevant.
BJ lies again:
“We cannot know for sure what books Palin would have pulled had she not been forcibly confronted. But there is a great deal of supposition.”
WHAT do you have, in the way of evidence, that anyone EVER “confronted” Palin on this issue?
You have nothing, BJ, you are just a shameless liar.
StevenEDavis posts,
“How could anyone turn down such a charming offer? Do you guys know that this stuff you write is here for a long time? Shaking my head…”
Ha, what a hilarious response to my ‘challange’ …you offer nothing. Except to confirm there is No PROOF of wrong doing, let alone actually banning books.
And you are insinuating that it is somehow wrong to ask a what if question of a public employee? One can’t inquire if it’s not right in line with your agenda, uh?
Palin didn’t even ask her to remove it!!!
You, and your’s are looking like the guy standing there with his pants bunched up down around his ankles and with a straight face thinking he doesn’t look competely asinine.
Golly, “Franklin” –
Does this mean I’m gonna have to move you over from the “Supports Obama” column to “Iffy”?
I’m stunned.
You could knock me over with a truck.
Perhaps you speak of irrelevance merely from first-hand experience. Why’d you stopping beating the “Obama is 44% Arab” trope? Were you beginning to feel irrelevant?
BJ
“stood up to” by WHO?? You lying sack of trash, you are making stuff up!
“BlueJay
Posted September 23, 2008 at 8:16 am | Permalink
Con wall banger Sean Hannity asked her about it.
Of course, she used the same dodge her flacks use here.
She didn’t actually ban any books.
But that is only because she was stood up to.”
RAWHIDE!!!
Palin’ Palin’ Palin’
Keep movin’, movin’, movin’,
Though they’re disapprovin’,
Keep them doggies movin’ Rawhide!
Don’t try to understand ‘em,
Just rope and throw and grab ‘em,
Soon we’ll be living high and wide.
Boy my heart’s calculatin’
My true love will be waitin’, be waiting at the end of my ride.
Move ‘em on, head ‘em up,
Head ‘em up, move ‘em out,
Move ‘em on, head ‘em out Rawhide!
Set ‘em out, ride ‘em in
Ride ‘em in, let ‘em out,
Cut ‘em out, ride ‘em in Rawhide.
Palin’, Palin’, Palin’
Palin’, Palin’, Palin’
Palin’, Palin’, Palin’
Palin’, Palin’, Palin’
Rawhide!
Palin’, Palin’, Palin’
Though the streams are swollen
Keep them dogies Palin’
Rawhide!
Rain and wind and weather
Hell-bent for leather
Wishin’ my gal was by my side.
All the things I’m missin’,
Good vittles, love, and kissin’,
Are waiting at the end of my ride
CHORUS
Move ‘em on, head ‘em up
Head ‘em up, move ‘em on
Move ‘em on, head ‘em up
Rawhide
Count ‘em out, ride ‘em in,
Ride ‘em in, count ‘em out,
Count ‘em out, ride ‘em in
Rawhide!
Keep movin’, movin’, movin’
Though they’re disapprovin’
Keep them dogies movin’
Rawhide!
Don’t try to understand ‘em
Just rope, throw, and brand ‘em
Soon we’ll be living high and wide.
My hearts calculatin’
My true love will be waitin’,
Be waitin’ at the end of my ride.
Rawhide!
Rawhide!
(Got that song in your head now, don’t you!)
When you look to this election, it might be an idea to reflect on history and what the great societies had in common. The ones that we tend to remember, study and admire were revolutionary in some way. They were open to new ideas and cultural expression. Our own 18th century revolutionaries pushed the boundaries a bit for their time.
Taken in that context, it’s hard to see how a McCain / Palin ticket moves us forward. When I look at Palin, I see a restrictive mindset and one that seems to fear diversity in lifestyle.
It comes down to the level of freedom that you want. I want to live in a society that’s truly free for all its citizens, that’s open to new ideas, that’s culturally vigorous, and a society that embraces excellence across the board, including academic excellence. To compete in today’s world, we can’t afford to take a disdainful attitude toward academic achievers as “elites.”
Palin’s boxed-in, “Us vs. Them” worldview is altogether too limiting and unimaginative.
“Biden Calls Obama Attack Ad “Terrible””
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/22/biden-calls-obama-attack-ad-terrible/
and
“Obama on Biden’s Initial Opposition to AIG Bailout: “Joe Should Have Waited”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-on-bidens.html
Ah-Oh, GO SIT IN THE CORNER LITTLE JOE!!!
I wonder if this is he beginning of the end for Joe? Obama using these statements as an excuse to dump Joe for Hillary.
I think it would be hilarious if Hillary told him to stuff it at this point.
What a joke of a ticket the DimLibs have, it is becoming clearer daily.
Franklin,
BJ is probably mentally ill. He exhibits enough of the signs that he could reasonably be diagnosed as a pathological liar. Diseased he is, mentally diseased.
Here are some ways to tell someone is a pathological liar contributed by a WikiAnswers Contributor:
* They lie about even the smallest things. For example, saying “I brushed my teeth today,” when they didn’t.
* They add exaggerations to every sentence.
* They change their story all the time.
* They act very defensively when you question their statements.
* They believe what they say is true, when everyone else knows it isn’t.
______________________________________________
Do you see a pattern here?
______________________________________________
Here’s an alternate “checklist”:
* Lies when it is very easy to tell the truth.
* Lies to get sympathy, to look beter, to save their butt, etc.
* Fools people at first but once they get to know him, no one believes anything they ever say.
* May have a personality disorder.
* Extremely manipulative.
* Has been caught in lies repeatedly.
* Never fesses up to the lies.
* Is a legend in their own mind.
_________________________________________
These examples could be directly attributed to JR!
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_tell_if_someone_is_a_pathological_liar
Yeah, like Obama/Biden would increase Freedom by taking property from one group and giving it to another.
Like Obama/Biden would grow the economy by taking away your Freedom to earn a profit, and taking away the profit incentive.
Like Obama/Biden would take away your Freedom to choose your own Doctor and Health Care Plan.
“It comes down to the level of freedom that you want. I want to live in a society that’s truly free for all its citizens, that’s open to new ideas, that’s culturally vigorous, and a society that embraces excellence across the board, including academic excellence. To compete in today’s world, we can’t afford to take a disdainful attitude toward academic achievers as “elites.”
Fine Royall,
As long as they provide for themselves and don’t burden the rest of us with supporting them in what thye call freedom to do as they please.
Rage,
Why dont you let bj answer for himself(like that will happen)?
Like Obama/Biden would take away your Freedom to defend your own life by disarming law-abiding Americans.
Not even Free to LIVE, under Obama/Biden.
Taken into the Freedom Context, it’s clear which Candidate would support more Freedom.
NOTOBAMA.
Royal
“can’t afford to take a disdainful attitude toward academic achievers as “elites.””
You mean the kind of “elites” who look down on Sarah Palin as Gun/God clinging trailer trash?
Hank,
Still planning being a Woofstock a week from Sat,as long as my work schedule permits, We landed the customer service account for Little TYkes Toys and the corporate office will be here starting nex week for a month of training. Bringing the grandson,should I bring a couple of tin foil hats so we don’t become exposed to the con mind control rays you will be emitting?
Man on man are the libs on a roll today or what?!?
Got their daily I HATE PALIN thread, but as hard as the libs and the press try – the public ain’t biting.
This one is far fetched.
We no longer have newspapers reporting the facts. WE NOW HAVE TABLOID SMUT PAPER.
How does it feel to work for a tabloid Phil?
How does it feel to promote crap every day by posting crap threads?
Editors are no longer capable of validating the source or truth in news they regurgitate. They hide behind the smut being called news by some other idiot.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp
I see that all of the tighty righties are foaming at the mouth today. It would be fun it it wasn’t so pathetic.
Dennis
Unlike some of you, I’ve actually SPOKEN to Tipper Gore about the whole thing. Washington Weekend 1988, when the future VP spoke. Her whole point was to get a sticker on albums that said “explicit lyrics”. Labeling, not banning.
Just a little difference in semantics there.
mr c
That still is censorship in my book
“The smear merchants who continue to circulate the list also failed to do a simple Google search, which would have showed them that the bogus Sarah Palin Banned Book List is almost an exact copy-and-paste reproduction of a generic list of “Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States” that has been floating around the Internet for years. STACLU notes that the official Obama campaign website is also perpetuating the fraud. And it’s spread to craigslist, where some unhinged user is posting images likening Palin to Hitler. Here it is again.
The person who first spread the Palin smear is identified as “Andrew Aucoin,” a commenter on the blog of librarian Jessamyn West. West has done the right thing in keeping the bogus comment up and pointing out in her main post that “there appears to be no truth to the claim made by the commenter, and no further documentation or support for this has turned up.”
It’s a fake. Not true. Total B.S. A lie.”
If you libs weren’t scared of Sarah, you wouldn’t be digging trying to make dirt stick to her. What a poor blog subject.
Concur, George.
But hey, it’s a great smokescreen for cons who don’t want to talk about the economy.
The actual librarian has acknowledged Palin twice raised the issue in 1996 of how books could be removed from the shelves, Palin said it was only a “rhetorical question” and that she did not ask for any books to be banned.
In small town government, many times, local yokel politicians are asked by citizens to bring up subjects or ask questions – just to hear the answer.
The politician makes money because they are doing the wishes of the local citizens. The local citizen gets their question asked and answered. Additionally, just to STOP citizen actions, sometimes an elected official will ask staff a question – which puts an issue to bed.
Not only does it mean that Palin never asked to have books banned – but it also reveals there is zero proof that Palin herself wanted any books banned.
Libs are grasping desperately at straws…..
These things seem to have a life of their own.
By design.
Smear tactics.
“HLP” is reduced to talking like Yoda –
“Diseased he is….”
While you’re practicing psychiatry without a license, look up the symptoms of PTSD before you talk again with “the boy.”
Seems to me as long as this story has been going on that if there had been truth to it someone would have found some concrete facts by now.
mr c
That still is censorship in my book,
. . .but you still haven’t explained what conceivable relevance it has. Record albums are not books, and neither Al nor Tipper are seeking political offices.
It’s equivalent to saying, in response to the Palin brohaha, “Oh yeah? Did you know that the novel ‘Ulysses’ by James Joyce was repeatedly banned?”
Even the most ardent free-speech advocates can be excused for asking “What the hell does that have to do with anything?”.
Royall
So, we should do something “different” even if it is disasterous?
Obama was a complete disaster, for his State Senate District.
Do you even know how many boarded up buildings are in Chicago, due to Obama and his friend, Tony Rezco?
I’ll type slow this time, Censorship is censorship,no matter what form it takes.
P.S. By the way, for those who were free speech advocates in 1992, it was an issue, and a big one.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 23, 2008 at 10:28 am | Permalink
heckie, outie, reggie, et al.
The folks YOU want to elect represent “more of the same”. How’s that workin’?
Yes, with the ox in the ditch, let’s just keep doing what we are doing and expect different results.
Remember, if you keep doing what you are doing, you will get what you got.
I guess you like what you got, since you want to put/keep in power the same folks who brought you the iraq war money pit, the Katrina response, the sanctioned spying on Americans, and the current financial meltdowns.
“Please sir, may I have another”.
That must be what you say to yourself, all the way to the voting booth.
By all means, let’s elect more of the same…
Like mcsame saying, in an article published THIS WEEK, that he wants to do to health care the same thing he takes credit for doing to banking.
Jesus WEPT!
————————
Well KFG, we have the choice of two farm mules.
One mule likes to pose, look stylish, munch grass and generally acts as a jackass, but refuses to plow.
The other mule is a sh^t throwing, slobber spitting, tail swatting menace, but that mule is a proven in the field and can plow a mean 40.
The first mule being Obama and the second McCain.
I think you get my point KFG.
I’ll type slow this time, Censorship is censorship,no matter what form it takes.
Was there someone advocating censorship on this thread? I must have missed it.
I trust that if Obama lin Biden wins the elections we’ll have a thread on the so-called “Fairness Doctrine”.
I’m sure Rage will be eager to participate.
HLP
I would refer you to DSM-IV
Section 16
Cluster B
(Obviously, co-morbid diagnosis is possible, could be more than one issue here.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV_Codes#Personality_disorders
Banning books is censorship. If she did try to get books banned let’see some IMPARTIAL proof or let the matter become a non issue.
Rage didn’t mean to get hostile on you
Can we all agree that Tipper Gore was never an official representative of any government?
And a little time on “the Google” will reveal just how “petty and insignificant” her little warning label on CDs was back in the 90s.
You CONs are so wrong on the substance of this little tempest in a teapot (and, yeah, some of the
libssane people, too.Meanwhile, George WMD Bush wants a Trillion of your dollars in walkin’ around money — to distribute to their pals, failed businesses and executives — with no congressional or judicial review, and they want the dough by Friday
or they’ll break your legs.Can we perhaps think that’s a bit more important issue this year than whether or not the Moose-Dresser wanted her daughter (what’s her name? “Blossom?” I’ve already forgotten) might be exposed to “Heather Has Two Mommies”?
“If she did try to get books banned let’see some IMPARTIAL proof or let the matter become a non issue.”
It is a non-issue. BUT, the WEBLOG can boast lot’s of posts today. This is how they make their real money. Newspaper sales are declining.
Tabloid news. Tabloid readers.
Meanwhile, democrats wants a Trillion of your dollars in walkin’ around money — to distribute to their pals, failed businesses and executives — with no congressional or judicial review, and they want the dough by Friday or they’ll break your legs.
For those of you who beleive that Palin tried to remove books from the library, please provide the list given to the librarian to possibly remove, from a source that is not a blog, or that has some credibility. If you can;t it’s just plain speculaiton. I guess that’s okay, this is a blog of opinion. But please realize that presenting it as fact is simply not true.
For those of you who believe otherwise, give them a little while to find such evidence and present it. I know you’ve already done that, but give them a little rope, uh, I mean room.
Both parties want our money.
“Meanwhile, George WMD Bush wants a Trillion of your dollars in walkin’ around money — to distribute to their pals, failed businesses and executives — with no congressional or judicial review, and they want the dough by Friday or they’ll break your legs.
Can we perhaps think that’s a bit more important issue this year than whether or not the Moose-Dresser wanted her daughter (what’s her name? “Blossom?” I’ve already forgotten) might be exposed to “Heather Has Two Mommies”?”
I agree, and far more important that wether or not Palin had a tanning bed, or when exactly her water broke, or whether or not she can field dress a moose (which you allude to).
Shiny object for you all.
Monkey
OVERSITE?
Look, I am highly conflicted about the mortgage issue, as far as short term solutions are concerned.
HOWEVER, there is NO DOUBT about what caused this mess: Democrats Protected Fannie and Freddie from ANY “oversite” at all!
Every time Bush, or McCain, or anyone else, complained about the 30 to 1 Leverage taking place at Fannie and Freddie, anytime anyone complained that Fannie and Freddie were getting into the “hedge fund” business or doing anything else outside of their “Government Sponsored” charters, annytime anyone complained about Fannie and Freddie using subsidized government funds to make interest rate bets and invest outside of their charter or mandate, —
Each and every time anyone tried to do anything, Democrats Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and the Congressional Black Caucus, including OBAMA, shut down any such effort!
The mortgage problem is a DEMOCRAT caused problem.
The mortgage problem is a DEMOCRAT caused problem.
But now it’s America’s problem
A mayor asks a police chief for his opinion on “racial profiling” — does this mean that the mayor is for, or against, such profiling?
Should a mayor be able to test the metal of any employee or staff member?
Obama is a radical enemy of the First Amendment, as demonstrated by Obama’s behavior towards his political opponents.
Palin has demonstrated no such hostility towards Free Speech.
I’m curious, “Franklin” –
Why you chose to put quotation marks around the word “OVERSITE?”[sic]
I’ve never used the word “OVERSITE.” (For one thing, I try to spell=check and proofread most of my posts.)
Perhaps you’d like to discuss matters I’ve actually written about, such as the Commodities Futures Modernization Act.
The mortgage problem is a DEMOCRAT caused problem.
That makes you an ignorant phu(k just like Monkey. Get the RNC (o(k out of your @ss and mouth long enough to see that both parties s(rewed the pooch.
Or you can continue to su(k (o(k and take it up the @ss like the party wh0re you are.
monkey
got you and littlejohn mixed up.
Sorry.
As far as spelling is concerned?
Who cares!
You are getting petty again.
Shiny object for you all.
Yep. And unless a dead body turns up in her backyard, I’m pretty much don’t care about Palin anymore.
Let the Alaska legislature deal with her.
Paul – even with all their problems Fannie and Freddie are still only a part of this mess. The rest lies with all those non-bank banks.
As for the out-of-power party somehow preventing the in-power party from acting – that is a real joke. Bush has been president; not Gore or Kerry.
“Franklin” grovels to “Monkeyhawk” –
“Sorry.”
Hey, don’t bother apologizing for being wrong.
Just tell us some time when you are right.
It’ll use less bandwidth.
Oh, and explain to me your understanding of the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000.
Sol Dev
NOPE
You are wrong on this one.
The Democrats have stopped every single effort by the Bush Administration, to force Fannie and Freddie to follow basic accounting rules.
Bush tried, repeatedly, to bring some sanity to the mortgage business.
McCain, himself, predicted the failure of Fannie and Freddie a long time ago, back in 2006.
Yes, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley repeal of the Glass-Steagal is important.
However, the only think really WRONG with that repeal is that something should have been done, with Fannie and Freddie, to force Fannie and Freddie to follow the rules other firms had to follow.
As GSE’s or Government Sponsored Enterprises, Fannie and Freddie WERE above the law and they acted like it.
All of our problems can be traced directly to Fannie and Freddie, two DEMOCRAT controled, DEMOCRAT Patronage organizations.
Fannie and Freddie and Countrywide and Lehman were all revolving door employers of Democrat politicians and Democrat staff members.
Fannie and Freddie and Countrywide and Lehman all gave huge amounts of political money to Obama and to other Democrats, as a payoff for keeping the legislators and regulators off of the backs of the Democrat Piggy Bank!
“SolDevVB” turns on “Franklin” –
“That makes you an ignorant phu(k just like Monkey….”
Oh, heavens!
As bad as I?!
The closest I ever came to being “just like” “Franklin” was when I made up an argument that John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) is only 44% Scottish.
2006 – I did not realize that the Democrats were in control then.
Ben
Fannie and Freddie were the root cause of the problem.
There is no way around that fact.
When the primary players in any industry decide what the rules are, it is rather simple:
Follow the lead of Fannie and Freddie, or go out of business!
We can try to blame it all on the Gramm-Leach-Bliley repeal of Glass-Steagal, but that, alone, would not have caused all of this.
It is a combination of issues:
Community ReDevelopment Act, reduction of downpayment requirements and credit requirements
Gramm Leach Bliley, which created a MARKET for the bad loans. (Note, the securitization of the mortgage industry would be a non-issue, had their been no bad loans to “float” in such CMO type securities, in the first place)
Fannie and Freddie refusing to be constrained by basic accounting rules or oversight.
All of these things got us to this point.
However, Fannie and Freddie, if properly managed, would have prevented the entire dominoe effect we are seing today.
Fannie and Freddie were protected Democrat Piggy Banks, protect Democrat patronage institutions.
Ben
Dont be cute.
It takes 60 votes in the Senate to get anything done.
There were NEVER any Democrat votes, that I am aware of, to reform Fannie and Freddie.
There were plenty of Republican votes to reform Fannie and Freddie.
If fannie an freddie were the problem, then no more problem they’ve been taken over and all these billions they’re asking for isn’t for f&F. It’s a red herring, just a name j.q.public can recognize and repubs. can make loose association to obama with. Nothing more.
Whoa, good point Heckler, up-thread.
The DimLibs have their shorts all bunched up about Palin and a lie about banning books yet they want to out and out limit free speech with a ‘Fairness Doctrine’.
The Hypocrites!!
Phantom
The securities that Fannie and Freddie took part in creating are now “toxic debt” which has hurt the entire financial system.
Box
Well, Obama ALSO wants to shut down TV stations and radio stations that say things Obama does not like.
Fannie Mae calling Obama and the CBC the “Conscience of Fannie Mae” :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0
The Obamamaniacs are deleting LOTS of evidence right now, we got them on the run!
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/22/bloggers-sniff-out-anti-palin-astroturf-campaign-and-the-cover-up-begins/
Granted, if you create something, you probably have a greater right to delete that information than someone else might.
However, if we have a right to read anything we want, why is the Obama campaign trying to hide so many facts from us?
It is VERY clear that Obama is up to his neck in these anti-Palin whisper attacks and internet attacks.
Now, Obama is trying to cover his tracks!
“dadman” tropes –
“…it seems I’ve heard this before – oh yeah !!”
Yup.
Right there in the Acts of the Apostles.
I’m thinking it’s this whole derivatives house of cards is liable to come tumbling down. Where the default on a mortgage backed security will force the sale of a different type cds security, and avalanche throughout the financial system.
The government mandated that risky loans had to be made.
Lawsuits and government actions were threatened, against lenders who did not have any type of loan available for the “credit challenged” —
However, a source of funds then had to be created, to fund those mortgages.
The CMO and hedge fund and other complicated products came about, in some ways, as a method to “diversify” the risks of the the low credit loans.
However, with privacy issues and other federal and state issues, how in the world can a “prosepectus” for a pool of mortgages list the credit ratings of all of the mortgage holders?
Simply put, you can’t.
So, investments that, at first, held only a small amount of risky loans, began to take on more and more of the riskly loans.
There was no way to monitor this, after the fact.
Also, individuals tend to have rather dynamic finances, as compared to more stable corporations.
Individual credit scores are far more volatile than a corporate bond rating.
These are the types of issues Congress should have addressed, long ago.
That’s the kudlow tripe.
It goes beyond just mortgages, I think the bigger problem is the credit default swaps, where one default on a mortgage is going to catapult to another forced sell of a security at an inopportune time, a total lakck of reserves.
I wish Leonard Pittstain would have sited some sources on this “book ban.”
-reflecting on the reports of how Sarah Palin asked the Wasilla, Alaska, librarian three times about removing controversial books from the shelves.-
reflecting on the reports? hahahaha what a joke.
Surely he can produce a document from-
The American Library Association’s Office for Intellectual Freedom “reports that since 1990 it has seen 9,700 ‘challenges’ — a challenge is defined as a formal written request to remove a book from a library because the content offends or is deemed inappropriate,”
No? Then maybe he should just keep his fat mouth lies to himself.
Obama is trying to punish TV stations that run advertising like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOFT8jtuVpo
Phantom
Freddie and Fannie had a 30 to 1 debt to equity ratio.
McCain tried to fix this problem.
Bush tried to fix this problem.
Franklin
Posted September 23, 2008 at 12:14 pm | Permalink
HLP
I would refer you to DSM-IV
Section 16
Cluster B
________________________________________________
You might be right Franklin. His obvious pathological lie problem might just be the tip of the iceberg. Junior might be worse off than we think!
hehehe
Back to the false “Palin Library” story:
There is NO evidence that the population of Wasila, Alaska, rose up against Sarah Palin due to any “book banning” —
The librarian, though a supporter of the former, defeated Mayor, was popular with the residents.
There was some public support for the librarian.
Nobody has shown that there was EVER any mention of the “book ban” issue, when the librarian was, perhaps, “fired” and “rehired” —
There was some public support for the librarian?
So what. Show us where there was ever ANY public knowledge of any supposed “book ban” would you please?
“The government mandated that risky loans had to be made.”
NOT! If this were the case then this mess would be focused in places like Planeview and Hilltop with owner-occupied. That is NOT the case. We are looking at E-Burg, Tallgrass, and investor/speculator owned properties.
I bet f&f were taking out the ‘insurance’ cds, so weren’t too concerned what was in the mortgage packange, then when the mort. went bad, the ‘insurer’ was on the hook, hence toxic debt.
“Ben
Dont be cute.
It takes 60 votes in the Senate to get anything done.
There were NEVER any Democrat votes, that I am aware of, to reform Fannie and Freddie.
There were plenty of Republican votes to reform Fannie and Freddie”
This hilarious. All you righties are blaming the current “Democratic-controlled Congree” today when your republics have been effective at blocking cloture. The factioned Democrats were not that effective at filibuster when your Republics were running the show.
I just love it – no matter what happens – no matter who is in charge – EVERYTHING is the Democrats fault!
Even the Kansas City Chiefs!
Ben
Wichita is NOT a good measure of the mortgage mess.
By and large, the problem is in “sub prime” mortgages.
Yes, “Alt-A” mortgages, which are common to the self employed and professional class, are having problems too, but those problems would be manageable, without the subprime problems.
The Community Redevelopment Act was directly responsible for lowering the down payment and credit history requirements.
The “red-lining” lawsuits were designed to reduce the job-history and credit score requirements. Lenders could go to court and “show” how many “bad loans” they approved, as a way to avoid being called “racist”.
#
Rage
Posted September 23, 2008 at 12:34 pm | Permalink
Shiny object for you all.
Yep. And unless a dead body turns up in her backyard, I’m pretty much don’t care about Palin anymore.
Let the Alaska legislature deal with her.
————————-
Bingo!!!
A Lib gets a clue and gets his nose out of other people’s business!
How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis: Kevin Hassett
Commentary by Kevin Hassett
Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) — The financial crisis of the past year has provided a number of surprising twists and turns, and from Bear Stearns Cos. to American International Group Inc., ambiguity has been a big part of the story.
Why did Bear Stearns fail, and how does that relate to AIG? It all seems so complex.
But really, it isn’t. Enough cards on this table have been turned over that the story is now clear. The economic history books will describe this episode in simple and understandable terms: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac exploded, and many bystanders were injured in the blast, some fatally.
Fannie and Freddie did this by becoming a key enabler of the mortgage crisis. They fueled Wall Street’s efforts to securitize subprime loans by becoming the primary customer of all AAA-rated subprime-mortgage pools. In addition, they held an enormous portfolio of mortgages themselves.
In the times that Fannie and Freddie couldn’t make the market, they became the market. Over the years, it added up to an enormous obligation. As of last June, Fannie alone owned or guaranteed more than $388 billion in high-risk mortgage investments. Their large presence created an environment within which even mortgage-backed securities assembled by others could find a ready home.
The problem was that the trillions of dollars in play were only low-risk investments if real estate prices continued to rise. Once they began to fall, the entire house of cards came down with them.
Turning Point
Take away Fannie and Freddie, or regulate them more wisely, and it’s hard to imagine how these highly liquid markets would ever have emerged. This whole mess would never have happened.
It is easy to identify the historical turning point that marked the beginning of the end.
Back in 2005, Fannie and Freddie were, after years of dominating Washington, on the ropes. They were enmeshed in accounting scandals that led to turnover at the top. At one telling moment in late 2004, captured in an article by my American Enterprise Institute colleague Peter Wallison, the Securities and Exchange Comiission’s chief accountant told disgraced Fannie Mae chief Franklin Raines that Fannie’s position on the relevant accounting issue was not even “on the page” of allowable interpretations.
Then legislative momentum emerged for an attempt to create a “world-class regulator” that would oversee the pair more like banks, imposing strict requirements on their ability to take excessive risks. Politicians who previously had associated themselves proudly with the two accounting miscreants were less eager to be associated with them. The time was ripe.
Greenspan’s Warning
The clear gravity of the situation pushed the legislation forward. Some might say the current mess couldn’t be foreseen, yet in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie “continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,” he said. “We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.”
What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets.
Different World
If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. In 2005, 2006 and 2007, a blizzard of terrible mortgage paper fluttered out of the Fannie and Freddie clouds, burying many of our oldest and most venerable institutions. Without their checkbooks keeping the market liquid and buying up excess supply, the market would likely have not existed.
But the bill didn’t become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn’t even get the Senate to vote on the matter.
That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then. Wallison wrote at the time: “It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.”
Mounds of Materials
Now that the collapse has occurred, the roadblock built by Senate Democrats in 2005 is unforgivable. Many who opposed the bill doubtlessly did so for honorable reasons. Fannie and Freddie provided mounds of materials defending their practices. Perhaps some found their propaganda convincing.
But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years.
Throughout his political career, Obama has gotten more than $125,000 in campaign contributions from employees and political action committees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, second only to Dodd, the Senate Banking Committee chairman, who received more than $165,000.
Clinton, the 12th-ranked recipient of Fannie and Freddie PAC and employee contributions, has received more than $75,000 from the two enterprises and their employees. The private profit found its way back to the senators who killed the fix.
There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.
Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that’s worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.
(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0
I believe the req. were lifted so f&f could buy ‘Jumbos’. Hardly the areana of the po’ folks.
If f&f hold 388 bil. that’s only half of the current request by the feds.
Greenspan’s warning was ‘all real estate is local’ as I recall.
Notice f&f’s hedging their mortgages, its the ‘insurers’ that are holding the bag. Let them cruble.
Fannie and Freddie could not be regulated, for political reasons.
Democrats protected Fannie and Freddie.
“It is VERY clear that Obama is up to his neck in these anti-Palin whisper attacks and internet attacks.”
Can you PROVE that Paul? Do you have the internal memos where Obama ordered it? I want the same level of PROOF that you demanded in regards to the 2000 South Carolina “push polls” against McCain back when he was a maverick.
“Back in 2005, Fannie and Freddie were, after years of dominating Washington, on the ropes. They were enmeshed in accounting scandals that led to turnover at the top. At one telling moment in late 2004,”
“Democrats protected Fannie and Freddie.”
AMAZING how powerful the powerLESS Democrats were.
Again, I am conflicted about the solution.
The CAUSE is not in dipute: This mess was caused by Democrats in Congress!
As far as a solution?
Let us start with the fact that FDIC is a government plan, with the government holding the bag, eventually.
Let us also look at the SIPC insurance fund, for securities delivery.
Let us also look at the fact that STATES often back the policyholders of various insurance products, in the event of insurance company failure.
Purists on both sides must understand that we are already ass deep in alligators.
It is too late to argue about draining the swamp.
However, we MUST learn the correct lessons, or we will simply repeat the errors.
“Ben
Wichita is NOT a good measure of the mortgage mess”
Paul – I could have named neighborhoods in other cities (e.g. ‘Mexican War Streets’ in Pittsburgh) but most people would not know where they are. So, I used local neighborhood names as illustrative – i.e. poor or modest neighborhoods vs rich ones. YOU KNOW THAT.
Paul – your industry’s fiasco is dominated by investors and McMansions – not little owner-occupied bungalos.
Ben
Axelrod is Obama’s campaign manager.
The voice, on this bogus “amateur” smear video sounds EXACTLY like the voice on official Obama advertising.
This PR company is DIRECTLY involved in “Astro Turf” advertising, the same kind of advertising that is the specialty of Axelrod.
(Axelrod once created a fake “grass roots” company to promote an increase in utility rates, paid for with secret utility money)
“It is also likely that the PR firm was paid by outside sources to run the smear campaign. While not conclusive, evidence suggests a link to the Barack Obama campaign. Namely:
Evidence suggests that a YouTube video with false claims about Palin was uploaded and promoted by members of a professional PR firm.
The family that runs the PR firm has extensive ties to the Democratic Party, the netroots, and are staunch Obama supporters.
Evidence suggests that the firm engaged in a concerted effort to distribute the video in such a way that it would appear to have gone viral on its own. Yet this effort took place on company time.
Evidence suggests that these distribution efforts included actions by at least one employee of the firm who is unconnected with the family running the company.
The voice-over artist used in this supposedly amateur video is a professional.
This same voice-over artist has worked extensively with David Axelrod’s firm, which has a history of engaging in phony grassroots efforts, otherwise known as “astroturfing.”
David Axelrod is Barack Obama’s chief media strategist.
The same voice-over artist has worked directly for the Barack Obama campaign.
This suggests that false rumors and outright lies about Sarah Palin and John McCain being spread on the internet are being orchestrated by political partisans and are not an organic grassroots phenomenon led by the left wing fringe. Our findings follow.”
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194057.php
“The CAUSE is not in dipute: This mess was caused by Democrats in Congress!”
PaulTheShrillShill – the CAUSE is very much in dispute. It lies much more with the Republic-controlled Congress and White House. Even McCain said he would fire your SEC chief over it.
I too am conflicted about a solution – but I sure as hell will not let you lie that this is all the Democrats’ fault when your boys have been in charge of YOUR industry.
“Evidence suggests”
Like these that you so cavilierly dismiss?
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080128/banks
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/
The anatomy of a smear campaign
“You, and your’s are looking like the guy standing there with his pants bunched up down around his ankles and with a straight face thinking he doesn’t look competely asinine.”
I am imagining that you are a guy who stands around red-faced with eyes and veins bulging, and spraying spittle all over the place. Dude, you probably need to get some hypertension meds, and a life. What a joke!
I think posters like Boxylocks, have lowered the quaility of discourse on this blog to unprecidented levels.
All of the conservatives are sounding desperate and maybe for good reasons.
Looking forward to the debate on Friday night. Woo boy the Harvard eductaed whipper-snapper takes on the tired old man. It will not pretty, regardless of your party affiliation.
Lots of ‘evidence suggests’ in that right-wing article of your Paul. But I guess it is unbiased compared to the Boston Globe?
PROOF Paul. Not suggestions.
I wonder if Obama snaps his whipper as Steven Davis indicates.
Ben
You are wrong.
Cleveland Ohio has one of the largest mortgage default rates in the nation.
Those are almost all in minority and poor neighborhoods.
Also, the defaults are the worst in the areas where the “bubble” was the worst.
For logical reasons: Those who are paying a $200,000 mortgage are more likely to keep paying, if value of the home is stable or above the mortgage balance.
In areas that had EXPLOSIVE “bubble” growth? It is harder to justify the sacrifice, and people walk away if they find themselves “upside down”.
Liars,
Damned Liars, and
Paul F. Rossell – in a class by himself…
Ben
Sallie Mae was controlled by Democrats.
Sallie Mae gave the vast majority of its political and charitable support to Democrats and Democrat groups.
Freddie Mac was also controlled by Democrats, and gave lots of money to Democrats and very little to Republicans.
Countrywide gave most of its political support to Democrats. Countrywide had some very high-profile Democrats in charge.
Lehman Brothers was very tight with Al Gore, and was working with Gore on “carbon credit” issues. Lehman gave mosts of its political support to Democrats.
In all cases, during the last 3 years, Barrack Obama has been the GREATEST beneficiary of mortgage funds.
The corrupt mortgage industry was, basically, paying bribe money to the Democrat Party to keep the regulators off of their backs.
Ben
Bush is not on the Ballot this year.
McCain has made his peace with Bush, and I firmly believe that Bush had nothing to do with any so called “smear” against McCain.
There isn’t a single witness, NOBODY has come forward to state that they received ANY “racist” push polling, from anyone, trashing McCain.
Even if it DID happen? It was not from the Bush campaign.
This McCain (FORMER) operative that claims it happened? He presents NO evidence, had not really been quoted much, since that campaign, and has NO status in the current McCain campaign.
It is a stupid, false story.
However, you have said far worse, against McCain.
It is silly for you to “defend” McCain, over something that never happened, but was alleged to have happened 8 years ago —
But then you make all kinds of attacks against McCain, today.
—-
Back to the current situation:
It is OBVIOUS that this smear, against Palin, actually happened.
It is also OBVIOUS that it was a professional hit piece, and not an amateur or “grass roots” attack.
It is also OBVIOUS that the PR firm, involved, has close ties to Axelrod and Obama.
Democrat opererative, “Astroturf” pro, and friend of Axelrod, Obama’s campaign manager, ADMITS he was behind at least one, FAKE, “grassroots” smear of Palin:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194180.php
#
Freebird1971
Posted September 23, 2008 at 11:48 am | Permalink
Hank,
Still planning being a Woofstock a week from Sat,as long as my work schedule permits, We landed the customer service account for Little TYkes Toys and the corporate office will be here starting nex week for a month of training. Bringing the grandson,should I bring a couple of tin foil hats so we don’t become exposed to the con mind control rays you will be emitting?
__________________________________________
No hats required. When I work dogs, I’m in a ‘political free zone’.
I think you’ll have a good time, there will be two of us in back doing instinct testing, I’ll be the old, bald one.
“Back to the current situation:
It is OBVIOUS that this smear, against Palin, actually happened.
It is also OBVIOUS that it was a professional hit piece, and not an amateur or “grass roots” attack.
It is also OBVIOUS that the PR firm, involved, has close ties to Axelrod and Obama.”
No more OBVIOUS than the hits in 2000. And if McCain has made his peace with those who did it then good for him.
Hank – what day is woofstock?
Freebird – agreed with Hank – dogs are apolitical.
Your whole article was written by mccains economic adviso, should appear in an opinion piece, or did it?
Phillip,
You truly are a biased liar now. There was NEVER any proof that Palin actually wanted to ban any books or that she fired that librarian over it either.
Yet here you are, a damned editor, and you are posting the same crap?
I expected this kind of crap from the liberal nut jobs, not you. Or at least not in your capacity as an editor.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Some problems with mccain’s s190:
“1) Republicans held the majority in Congress when this bill was introduced.
2)The bill was an attempt to privatize regulatory agencies. Hence, Democratic resistance to it. Hence, even Republicans voting against it.
3) The bill did nothing to address fraud and tighten oversight. Hence, Democratic resistance to it. Hence, even Republicans voting against it.
Text from the bill itself:
“Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements.”
Phantasy
Posted September 23, 2008 at 3:42 pm | Permalink
Some problems with mccain’s s190:
“1) Republicans held the majority in Congress when this bill was introduced.
2)The bill was an attempt to privatize regulatory agencies. Hence, Democratic resistance to it. Hence, even Republicans voting against it.
3) The bill did nothing to address fraud and tighten oversight. Hence, Democratic resistance to it. Hence, even Republicans voting against it.
————————————————-
The problem with the Bill s-1713, the One sponsored.
1.) No one wanted a Rosa Parks Stamp.
Phantom
PART of Fannie and Freddie NEEDED to be “privatized” — what are “Government Sponsored Entities” doing, borrowing subsidized loan money, from the Fed, and using that money in a private hedge fund?
That is what Fannie Mae was doing!
Fannie and Freddie both drifted far, far away from their government endorsed charter.
Also, it is not unusual to have exemptions in any bill with regulatory authority.
If the SEC is in charge, bank regulators should back off, on some issues.
If bank regulators are, primarily, in charge, then the SEC, perhaps, should back off, in some areas.
ANY regulatory law will contain exemptions, so that the various regulatory bodies know who is in charge of what aspect of the regulatory framework.
McCain and Bush tried SEVERAL times to reign in Fannie and Freddie.
The Democrats always resisted.
Apparently they were doing some of the same thing the rest of the industry was doing, and they had a mandate to acquire the mortgages.
Why move to regulate the second tier morthage lenders, rather than the first tier, where the problem originated?
Would’ve just choked off credit and raised interest rates, mort. cos. would’ve just been able to charge higher interest rates, which after all was probably why the repubs. wanted to privatize f&f for their friends in the industry.
This isn’t just about Palin. Churches have been actively banning anything that might cause people to think for themselves for millenia. Aristotle, Plato Herotodus, Hippocrates, Xeno and almost all the other classical writers were considered dangerous and banned, along with Copernicus, Brahe and Gallileo.
More recently, christian activists managed to stop the showing of Kazantzakis “The Last Temptation of Christ” in most areas of the country.
Many lists of books to be banned have been passed out in churches across the country. Usually, the excuse given is that they contian sexual imagery, but most of them are on the list because they give people something to think about, when churches want to do the thinking for their members.
Not all of the book-burners are religious fundies- the John Birch Society had it’s own list of books they considered communist inspired, and spent decades pressuring libraries and publishers.
The funny thing is that most of the people compounding such lists have never even read the books they want banned. They’re taking the word of some higher authority who hasn’t read it either. Maybe there should be a law requiring people who put together such lists of books and movies to read or view the material they want to ban- and cover to cover; not just key phrases! If they’re required to do a little thinking, maybe they won’t be so anxious to prevent other from doing it.
From your article it’s apparent that if the govt. bought every one of the high risk mortgages, and they had 0 value, that would only be about half of the current 750 bil. requested.
The problem is much much more deeper than f&f.
#
bth
Posted September 23, 2008 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
Hank – what day is woofstock?
Freebird – agreed with Hank – dogs are apolitical.
______________________________________________
Saturday, Oct 4th.
Hank – looks like I will be working – otherwise would like to bring Sammy.
Freebird – if you go have a good time. Anyone who loves dogs can’t be all bad!
:)
Heck,
“And how many books did she ban?”
So far, the same number as wars Boy George has won. Didn’t keep either of them from trying their damnedest. And every once in a white, stupidity gets lucky.
Damn! The editors sure did good posting this worthless Palin thread. Got the numbers up big time!
And conservatives and republicans are helping them help the democrats.
There is no merit to the subject of this thread. It was only put here because the money making newspaper KNOWS it will make cons pop a gasket, and provide libs the koolaid fix they need.
I’m not posting as it only helps their cause.
The issue here is mute.
Here is another way of looking at this.
Libs are NOT posting on the thread discussing the truth about Clinton supporters NOT backing Obama.
It’s been six hours and only 19 posts.
Why?
StevenEDavis
Your post at 2:04 pm contains nothing.
I challenged you earlier to prove Sarah Palin banned a single book, prove Sarah Palin told anyone to remove a book, any book, prove Sarah Palin got one book removed from the library, prove Sarah Palin fired the librarian, show where Sarah Palin did not have the executive authority to fire city employees as mayor if she wanted do do so, show where Sarah Palin specified she would like any specific title book removed.
You haven’t…..I’m waiting, and again I hope everyone else is also.
Let me try to understand, in your world people, especially a city counsel person or mayor, can’t ask questions of city employees? Strange world you live in there Steven. But we have come to know that already.
I used to at least give you some credit for barely intelligent quotes, but you’ve blown that. I see nothing of interest anymore.
This comes from a caller to Rush Limbaugh. It is nice story. Read and enjoy.
Great story & photos!
RUSH: Kurt in Pittsburgh , hello, sir. Nice to have you on the EIB Network, and how
about the Steelers defense?
CALLER: How about those Steelers, huh?
RUSH: How about that?
CALLER: Hey, listen, Rush, longtime listener, first-time caller, one of those Bible, family, gun clingers from
western Pennsylvania .
RUSH: Thank you.
CALLER: And I wanted to share a story with you. A week ago last Saturday we went to the Palin-McCain
rally in Washington , Pennsylvania , was the day after he announced her, and we have a five-year-old daughter
with Down syndrome, and we made a sign that said: “We Love Kids with Down Syndrome.” So when they
pulled inwith their bus the sign did catchthe eye of McCain and Palin and the rest of their family.
We could tel since they gave us a thumbs-up from the bus, so we were all excited just by that –
RUSH: Wait, wait, wait. Who gave you the thumbs up, McCain and Palin?
CALLER: McCain, Palin, Cindy McCain, we could see them from the bus. We were in a position where we
had eye contact with them –
RUSH: Oh, cool!
CALLER: My wife was holding our daughter.
RUSH: Very, very, very cool
CALLER: It was really cool, Rush. I was like, “Wow, that’s awesome,” because I love Governor Palin and so
I thought that’s really neat. So then we moved around as the bus was getting ready to pull out, we kind of
positioned ourselves so we could just wave them on and a Secret Service agent came .up to us and said,
“Hey, can you come with us?” I was like, “Do we have a choice?”
RUSH: (laughing) You shouldn’t have worried. It’s not the Clinton administration.
CALLER: Right. So we accompanied them up the hill, we went right to the bus, where it was, and Governor
Palin, Senator McCain, Cindy, Todd Palin, they’re all standing there. We’re in this inner circle with just us and
them, and the Secret Service agent, and they came right up to us and thanked us for coming out, said they
loved our sign, and Governor Palin immediately said, “May I hold your daughter?” and our daughter, Chloe,
who’s five, went right to her, and I have some pictures I’d love to send you maybe when I’m done here,
but Governor Palin was hugging Chloe, and then her little daughter brought their baby Trig who has Down
syndrome from the bus, he was napping, and Chloe went right over and kissed him on the cheek, and my
son Nolan who’s nine,thanked her.
RUSH: This is amazing.
CALLER: I will send you all the stuff, Senator McCain was talking to my son, and we thanked him for his
service, and he asked my son if he wanted to see the bus, and we were hanging out and it was very surreal.
I felt like we could have had a pizza and a beer with them, they were so warm.
RUSH: You know what? I want to put you on hold I want Snerdley to give you our super-secret, known-only-
to-three-people here, e-mail address.
CALLER: I will send you everything, Rush.
RUSH: And then could you send us these pictures? Would you mind if we put them on the website?
CALLER: I would be honored, and my main thing is they are warm, kind, genuine people, and they represent
the best of this country.
RUSH: That’s right. And when you send these pictures, make sure you identify them I mean, we’ll know
Palin and McCain, of course. Identify yourselves.
CALLER: I will, I will identify everybody in the picture, Rush, and God bless you for being a beacon of hope
and truth in this country.
RUSH: Oh, no, no. It’s nothing, it’s nothing. You’re doing the Lord’s work.
CALLER: Well, we’re very blessed and I want people to know what a blessing it is to have a child with Down
syndrome. These kids, they’re angels.
RUSH: That’s the thing. There’s always good to be found in everything that happens. It may be a while before
it reveals itself.
CALLER: Absolutely.
RUSH: Right, and when she hugged my daughter I said, here’s the difference, this candidate embraces life and
all its limitless possibilities.
RUSH: All right.
CALLER: That’s what she is.
RUSH: Terrific, okay, I gotta run here, but I’m going to put you on hold.
CALLER: Thank you, Rush.
RUSH: Thank you, Kurt. I really appreciate it.
END TRANSCRIPT See pictures Below
Sorry, no way I know of to post the photos, which are really really neat.
Box, how about posting a link to the photo’s?
Good post!
When it comes to governing styles (ie, governing by gut instinct),
Sarah Palin = George W Bush
Are you happy with the overall direction of the USA under the leadership of George W Bush? If so, then you’ll LOVE Sarah Palin!
Yeah, she loves disabled children and is “prolife”…but endorses a war where thousands of innocent children have been killed for oil and power. Oh well…outta sight, outta mind….what a hypocrite.
Am_Way,
I would like to but they came in an email and I don’t know how to post them to where you could see them.
Hey…..I found it. Here
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_090908/content/01125113.guest.html
Reminds me of the pic of Bush running with the soldier who got his leg blown off….I doubt they would have bothered if the cameras weren’t there to help them exploit the moment.
Am_Way,
Here is a better link yet to view the pics.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2078539/posts
CAN YOU ANSWER THIS ONE?
Who Am I?
I am under 45 years old,
I love the outdoors,
I hunt,
I am a Republican reformer,
I have taken on the Republican Party establishment,
I have several children,
I am the Vice Presidential nominee, with less than two years in the Governor’s office.
Who am I? Did you guess Sarah?
* * * * * * * * * * * *
I am Teddy Roosevelt in 1900
* * * * * * * * * * * *
Wall Street Journal 9/3/2008 | Daniel Younger
Under 45, lover of the outdoors, a Republican reformer who has taken on the Republican Party establishment, has many children, and a spot on the national ticket as vice president with less than two years in the governor’s office — you describe Teddy Roosevelt in 1900 and Sarah Palin in 2008.
Alec Ellison
Rye, N.Y.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122040041907393069.html
—
Yall might want to actually GO TO the website to check your facts. Daniel Younger didn’t write Raptor’s “Freeper Keeper’O The Day” above.
Why am I not surprised that Palin supporters can’t get the facts straight?
I dare to say the world was somewhat less complicated in the days of Teddy Roosevelt…it takes more to be the leader of the freeworld today with all the global problems and other huge challenges facing our country.
Yall Palin supporters crack me up. And you accuse Obama supporters of cult worship?
LOL
I think Palin has a pretty dadgum good cult going for herself there…
WOW I really must have hit a nerve with the cons before I left. I got swung at by almost all the people I hate the most.
Everything I have posted as to Sarah Palin is true to the extent that anyone knows anything about Sarah Palin.
Perhaps she should be asked, “Just why would you ask a librarian several times about removing books from the library?”
Of course, they’d have to be able to TALK to lil’ Sarah first.
I might mistaken the attribution, but you cannot deny the facts. Attacking the attribution doesn’t deny the rest of it.
One that that ain’t a fact is that Sarah Palin is another Teddy Roosevelt.
LOL
As if.
it is a shame you blow so much smoke, bj, without a shred of backup.
“The only reason Palin banned no books is that she was forcibly confronted by an outraged librarian and community”
prove it. You can’t, can you?
Sara Palin is another TR if, and only if, George W Bush was another TR.
And George W Bush wasn’t another TR.
QED
“Are you happy with the overall direction of the USA”
Oh Pedant, post it in bold, underlined, italics, and large font if you must, but no one absolutely no one is falling for that stupid bit.
You are simply rehashing the standard bearer of the liberal mania: McCain=Bush. It’s old, stale, and no one is listening nor believing it.
Each of these people are separate people. None of them are attached at the hip, and intelligent people can see it.
In fact, you look silly reposting this hogwash.
Please, flip the record over, get a new tape, or change koolaid flavors. You are boring.
Mccain is old, stale, unimaginative, obsolete.
When it comes to governing styles (ie, governing by gut instinct),
Sarah Palin = George W Bush
Are you happy with the overall direction of the USA under the leadership of George W Bush? If so, then you’ll LOVE Sarah Palin!
Ask and ye shall receive!
Thanx Boxlock! What a genuine human story in the midst of the troubled sheep.
““The only reason Palin banned no books is that she was forcibly confronted by an outraged librarian and community””
I stand by that. Just as the librarian stood up to Sarah Palin.
Ya don’t ask if you can do something unless you have plans on doing it. That’s MY stretch.
The work for you and Palin, and the cons is considerably more difficult. How DO you spin asking about removing books from a library?
Calling me names? That’s been tried.
My FAVORITE spin so far is to fall back on the “loyalty test” bit. Only in the mind of a con is one form of personal tyranny explained away by another.
Hell she’s had LOTS of time and advisers now to come out and put some sort of other weird spin on it.
I want to see her asked, “Why did you ask the librarian about removing books from the library?”
I think all you Palin supporters are missing a CRUCIAL truth here.
While Steve Schmidt and John McCain keep Palin under wraps with the media, it leaves others who HAVE ACCESS to media (like me) to frame her.
For example, it’s obvious that from what we know to date of Sarah Palin, she is cut from the same “conservative” cloth as George W Bush, using the same cutter even.
Both prefer to govern by gut instinct, but here’s a crucial, fatal flaw in both.
NEITHER SARAH PALIN NOR GEORGE W BUSH LIKE TO LEARN.
The “gut” they prefer to rely on is underfed and undernourished. For both governing by gut instinct as POTUS is like claiming to be a world-class marathon runner who refuses to train!
See how easy that is? :wink:
What yall need to do is convince Schmidt and McCain to get Palin some MSM exposure, pronto! Otherwise all you’ve got going for her is your own freeper echo chamber! (HINT: it ain’t enough to grab the independent voter)
Another way of stating the problem the GOP has with Palin: as things are today, every public appearance Sarah Palin makes has to be one of two types:
1. With John McCain, or
2. Without McCain but only at events heavily controlled (read: scripted access to real people; she’ll rely on the kind of contrived, MSM-manipulating, baloney-filled hype cited upthread)
This is not efficient, not when election day is about 6 weeks away.
She’s got to be able to campaign AWAY from McCain (or the McCain/Palin ticket cuts its possible appearances in half) and she’s got to be able to stand on her own two feet with the MSM.
They desperately need to split up. When will that happen?
Yeah Pedant.
Palin isn’t even a clever politician.
There WAS a way to make the library story go away.
She could have got out in front of it. She COULD have lied and said that she asked the question because she wanted to be sure the town librarian would OPPOSE censorship of literature.
Of course, it would have been a lie. But she doesn’t have problems with lying.
SO the story doesn’t go away.
Watch, I’ll show you.
“Sarah Palin asked the Wasilla, Alaska, librarian three times about removing controversial books from the shelves.”
And the deciderer of “controversial”?
Well since she is asking about removing books from the library SEVERAL times, logic says that Sarah Palin was seeking authority on just what was “controversial”.
I wish to modify the question to Sarah Palin.
“Why would you ask about removing books from the library? Are there books that you do not like that you would seek to keep others from reading?”
What a conundrm, split the crowds in half seprately, or see twice the people in half the locations.
Nah, the trick is to double the audiences because that doubles the free PR exposure in the MSM (doubles the video). Size is irrelevant to that.
With Palin the GOP has a serious problem with content. As in, she’s empty of it and the McCain camp can’t — or won’t — trust her out on her own.
I think that when all is said and done that Palin is what they’ll blame McCain for the most — not her personally, but her lack of preparation due to her lack of fitness for VPOTUS.
And it could very well be that when all is said and done we’ll learn that McCain couldn’t turn her loose because his people worried that a solo Palin would push a Palin/McCain ticket over a McCain/Palin ticket.
I’m sure palin’s fans will eat up her photo shoot with World Leaders!
It doesn’t take much to impress when you’re a celebrity, just show up and smile.
Palin spouts platitudes, and mccain tries to address issues using slogans, quite the pair.
“Tyranny? Explain.”
I was in a hurry this morning heckler. I missed that one.
Give a teenager a tall chair and a whistle and you see the beginnings of tyranny.
Get the idea?
Sarah Palin asked about banning books with her the apparent decider of what would be banned.
That librarian is a hero for standing up to her.
Hey she should even be a hero to Sarah Palin. Thanks to her, Palin is only a would be book banner.
“I’m sure palin’s fans will eat up her photo shoot with World Leaders!”
Photos courtesy the press by the way.
The McCain Palin people TRIED to keep the press out completely.
But like that librarian, the press stood up and said no press presence, no photo op.
SO the McCain/Palin people were forced to relent.
And let the press in for 29 seconds I understand.
I’d love to have heard what Kissinger had to say to mccain in private “What gives? Are you hitting that, or something?”
Mary,
“Yeah, she loves disabled children and is “prolife”…but endorses a war where thousands of innocent children have been killed for oil and power. Oh well…outta sight, outta mind….what a hypocrite.”
Not only does she support the bloodshed, she sent a son over there. Of course with five kids she can afford to sacrifice one for Jesus’ war. Life is just like any other commodity- if the supply is greater than the demand, the value drops.
Raptor
Posted September 23, 2008 at 8:25 pm | Permalink
it is a shame you blow so much smoke, bj, without a shred of backup.
“The only reason Palin banned no books is that she was forcibly confronted by an outraged librarian and community”
prove it. You can’t, can you?
Raptor
Did you forget he doesn’t have to prove anything all he has to do is spout off and whatever comes out is fact
Not only does she support the bloodshed, she sent a son over there. Of course with five kids she can afford to sacrifice one for Jesus’ war. Life is just like any other commodity- if the supply is greater than the demand, the value drops.
———–
Full of sh*t as usual, eh Jed?
Well, I’ve read enough for tonight. Conclusions?
Nah, Same old, same old. The libs trying to make sumthin out of nuthin. And then seem outraged when you don’t buy the BS they’re selling.
Jed
Posted September 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm | Permalink
Not only does she support the bloodshed, she sent a son over there. Of course with five kids she can afford to sacrifice one for Jesus’ war. Life is just like any other commodity- if the supply is greater than the demand, the value drops.
PSST,HEY Jed, its an all volunteer military,so how exactly did she send her son over there?
I am against the war with all my heart but my son (a former Marine) who had enlisted before 9/11 and was sent in the first group said I raised my hand and swore an oath so I’m honor bound to go. Believe me if I had had the power he wouldn’t have left San Diego.
So Jed you are an idiot.
And by the way Jed I’m pretty sure the governor of a state does not have the authority to send troops overseas or even outside the state’s borders
I’ve seen nothing I posted here disproved there “Freebird”.
My evidence for calling Sarah Palin a book banner is obviously stronger than the evidence of those who call me liar.
Where is your unbiased evidence? Frankly as I said earlier if there is some impartial evidence out there that says you are correct then yes there should be repurcussions but if nothing concrete is found then it’s a non issue. Oh I don’t plan on voting for either one of the the 2 idiots that are running
They key word in my post is unbiased. If you can produce one unbiased piece of evidence then I will admit you are right. My feeling is that if there were unbiased proof out there it would be in MSM not on a blog
Library Issue >>>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html
Maybe she didn’t send him, but I got the impression she’d make a willing sacrifice of him for God’s war. Most mothers would’ve said, ‘lets pray for their safe return’ not ‘less pray the war is God’s will’. She whacked.
“Phantom” cites Palin sending her son to Iraq –
“…Most mothers would’ve said, ‘lets pray for their safe return’ not ‘less pray the war is God’s will’.”
Wow.
Good insight.
I’ve never been all that worried that John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) would ever get elected. And the selection of the Moose-Dresser is obviously straight outta Hollywood: stunt casting.
She’s probably got enough beauty pageant poise to get through this campaign without a major gaffe, but she’s committing suicide-by-a-thousand-cuts. I talked about your “safe return” vs. “God’s will” comparison. She was taken aback.
Not in a faint-on-the-floor or shout-out-loud way; rather, she had a disconnect. “It’s as if she’s thinking ‘How many votes can I get if Track gets off before election day?’” She went on, “Imagine the week before the election, we finally see a flag-draped coffin and Mom in a black mini-skirt bravely telling Katie Curic ‘It’s God’s will.’ The Fundies’ll cream their jeans.”
The first chink in Palin’s armor came out of a little deal. I used to have a client who gamed his expense account to book as many flight transfers as possible during a four-day business trip. He was a classic finagler; thought he was smarter than everyone and that he was working the system. It worked with a lot of people but it’s always caught up with him sorta. If he’d been as honest as he is smart, he might have been great.
He’s got a house and a wife and a kid and a dog but he’s been fired from the last five jobs I’ve known about, but always taking with him a bunch of of frequent-flier miles.
He’d admire that Sarah Palin gamed her expense account to bill the taxpayers of Alaska $160-a-night to sleep in her own bed.
Wall Street is Major League Business. My client is playing Double-A business for frequent-flier miles in Wichita, Kansas. Most of his friends play in the same league.
They vote Republic Party because they still think maybe they’ll be called up to the Bigs in September.
The Moose-Dresser’s sycophants try to rationalize the GILF’s abuse-of-power in TrooperGate because her ex-brother-in-law sounds like pretty much of a sleaze. Then again, we all know about somebody’s really sleazy divorce and the attacks, accusations, and smears — real and imagined — which result. Wasilla and Alaska aren’t the political Big Leagues, but she led the Northern League in hits.
The same qualities which made the Snow Machine Racer’s Wife attractive as the Mom next door, we’re getting a lot of hints that maybe, just maybe, the Mom next door might not be the second-best person in the world to lead the Free World.
And what’s key is, who is the presidential candidate whose judgment plucked her out of nowhere? And what was he thinking?
Jed Posted September 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm
“Not only does she support the bloodshed, she sent a son over there. Of course with five kids she can afford to sacrifice one for Jesus’ war. Life is just like any other commodity- if the supply is greater than the demand, the value drops.”
Here is another DimLib Jackal that comes straight from Hell.
And the justice is that he will return to the same place in time….a wink in time.
Boxic,
You’re wrong, but not by too much. I was born in Kansas and I’m still here. Wherever I go after Kansas will be an improvement.
“Nah, Same old, same old. The libs trying to make sumthin out of nuthin. And then seem outraged when you don’t buy the BS they’re selling.”
So are you saying that thousands of innocent Iraqi children haven’t been killed, Out? How prolife is it to support a useless, unnecessary war that has killed thousands of people? Doesn’t being “prolife” mean that you respect ALL human life…not just the unborn?
I think Sara needs to walk her talk.
Sorry Mary. I thought this was the Palin book banning thread.
With this automated trading system in Alaska, there is no need to pay for any books. It is very unlikely, that her files will stay Alaska. The same is true for her files.
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