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546 Comments
Still sleeping like a baby.
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/mdi_igr/512/
I would hope the feds put a cap on Sovereign Wealth Funds. When the feds start selling off the “bad” paper from all the banks we bail out, my guess is China, Japan and Europe will be lined up to buy them at a discount. They’ll use SWFs to do so. In other words, the feds will be selling off this country to foreigners. After all, they do have the funds to buy about anything they want, especially China. But will the feds have the huevos to clamp down on it.
Today, September 22nd, is the Fall Equinox, the day when daytime approximately equals night time. So get ready and dress appropriately.
Incidentally, I don’t buy the “beginning of fall” comment stated by every weather news person in the country. Minimal connection but so be it.
Heckler, Fantastic picture
J.M.Walker: Someone told me yesterday that China has already stated publicly that they will NOT buy the “bad paper” that the U.S. Government will try to pawn off to cover the current buyouts, etc. I don’t know why they wouldn’t. This would give them more of a mortgage on America and collect a huge amount of interest on the “bad paper.” Perhaps China is tired of bailing U.S. Presidents and this country out of their financial problems.
If anyone hears any information on this, I hope you will post it.
If the ‘leaders’ of our country don’t stop spending so irresponsibly like they are we, our children and their children after that will have no bright future.
Our dollars, those earned and those saved, will have no value in the world.
You can’t print your way out of a financial debt catastrophe.
“, our children and their children after that will have no bright future.”
SURE they will.
Just as soon as we get the taxes back to the pre Kennedy days. Find the money where it is at and tax the crap out of it. Also?
Get business out of government. Get government INTO business!
B.J.
“Get government INTO business!”
Just like Fannie May and Freddie Mac!!
BlueJay
Posted September 22, 2008 at 7:18 am | Permalink
“, our children and their children after that will have no bright future.”
SURE they will.
Just as soon as we get the taxes back to the pre Kennedy days. Find the money where it is at and tax the crap out of it. Also?
Get business out of government. Get government INTO business!
In other words you got yours now I want some of it
Excuse me Heckler?
Desk jockey?
The financial meltdown is due to a LACK of government oversight. Not an abundance of it.
Freebird you making more than 250K a year? You damn right I want some of it.
What makes you think you are entitled to what others have worked for. I guarantee you if the shoe was on the other foot you would be screaming bloody murder.
Heard an interesting one the other day..
A college student was berating her father for his wealth, saying he should share it with others. He turned the tables…and asked her about her grades.
Straight A, she proudly replied. So he asked her about her social life. Non-existent, she replied, since she spends all her time studying and researching.
Next he asked about her roommate. With disgust, she responded how her roommate parties all the time, has grades of D and F, and isn’t doing much.
With that, Dad suggested they average both their grades so that each girl receives C grades for all their clsses.
At this the daughter was appalled, saying she worked hard for her grades, and since her roommmate partied and didn’t work for it, that it wasn’t fair for the daughter to have to give up what she earned on behalf of someone who didn’t work for it.
Dad replied, “Welcome to the Republican Party”.
Just admit the fact you can’t provide the necessities for yourself and expect others to provide
Who is Tony Rezko?
Well, at least BJ is honest (and apparently not embarrassed) about his desire to redistribute income in his direction by having the government steal for him.
About 50% of the citizens in this country don’t pay anything in taxes to support it.
I would like to see some type of flat tax where all would contribute to its support, even in a small way, and possibly feel some pride, rather than trash it because there aren’t enough freebies.
BlueJay posts; “Freebird you making more than 250K a year? You damn right I want some of it.”
BlueJay is a worthless parasite and wants to live off the labors of others. And, he isn’t man enough to go get it himself even, he wants someone else to do that for him as well, the government in this case.
I have never had less respect of any individual in my life.
Tony Rezko was a fundraiser for many Chicago area Democrats, including Barack Obama in Illinois, recently convicted (2008) on several counts of fraud and bribery. (that is the short version, compliments of Wikipedia)
Hey if you are making more than 250K and can’t afford a hit?
Y’all need a budget. Maybe cut out some of the extras. But do I want it taken from you to better see to society?
You’re damned right I do.
Yeah, ’scuse me Raptor?
That old rotten chestnut story of yours has been done to death.
So, if I don’t make more than $250,000 a year, can I expect a handout to “better society”? Where do I sign up for the freebies?
“That old rotten chestnut story of yours has been done to death.”
BlueJay, you are too ignorant realize it is just as valid today as the first day it was penned.
I think a big part of the “class warfare” problem stems from the abuses of thos like the CEOs of Fannie, Freddie, AIG, etc etc etc. They looted their companies for their personal gain and now the taxpayers are paying for it. And the Republics do not want any sort of limits placed upon their pay in these trillion-dollar bailouts.
A couple of days ago scientists were called “greedy” by a guy here who works in the financial industry because we would like to see a small fraction of that amount spent on energy research. I sure don’t see him calling these hundred-million dollar executives greedy.
“Where do I sign up for the freebies?”
That’s what I want to know too Raptor.
We’re spending BILLIONS in Iraq paying off people not to act out. We hear of CEO’s and other biz execs who fail their business enterprise and still get a golden parachute that hundreds of people could live high on.
And I keep hearing from you cons about all these handouts here domestically. But? I don’t see them.
I DO see people without healthcare. I also see people working harder than ever for less compensation and standard of living.
” would like to see some type of flat tax where all would contribute to its support, even in a small way, and possibly feel some pride, rather than trash it because there aren’t enough freebies.”
You mean patriotic?
Here’s a good piece on the Bush financial debacle:
http://theamericanscene.com/2008/09/19/welcome-to-history
“I would like to see some type of flat tax where all would contribute to its support, even in a small way, and possibly feel some pride,”
Yeah soak the poor there Outlander.
THAT will make them love a country that gives them nothing.
Get business out of government. Get government INTO business!
“It’s … hard to tell the average American that we’re going to continue to have foreclosures that destabilize neighborhoods and deprive cities of revenues they need, but we’re going to buy up the bad paper,” committee Chairman Barney Frank said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”
Democrats pointing fingers at Republicans for the financial mess we are in starting with the mortgage subprime mess – need to realize they have fingers pointing back at themselves.
Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, a Carter-era law that purported to prevent “redlining” – denying mortgages to black borrowers – by pressuring banks to make home loans in “low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.” Under the act, banks were to be graded on their attentiveness to the “credit needs” of “predominantly minority neighborhoods.”
“The Clinton Administration’s regulatory revisions with an effective starting date of January 31, 1995 were credited with substantially increasing the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans.”
And finally in 2003: “the Bush Administration recommended what the NY Times called “the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.” This change was to move governmental supervision of two of the primary agents guaranteeing subprime loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury.”
But democrats managed to stop any changes, said the hero Barney Frank:
‘’These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,’’ said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ‘’The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.’’
;
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;
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Maybe if democrats had not acted in 1977 and 1995 to weaken the banking loan industry, and HAD supported Bush in 2003 when Bush tried to strength the industry – we wouldn’t be in the pickle we are in today! Bush tried to get government into business, but Barney Frank and the democrats said NO.
B.J.
“The financial meltdown is due to a LACK of government oversight. Not an abundance of it.”
As I understand it there is a department of 250 people who are supposed to oversee it. They failed. There have been warnings since 1999 that it was in trouble. Did Congress head them? no.
The Bush admin. has been trying since 2003 to reform it. Congress said “no way”.
The problem? It was a honey hole for party hacks, primarily but not exclusively Democrats.
I was being facetious, bj….I have never asked for a handout in my life, and am not about to start now.
For more info as to how business has infiltrated, sabotaged, and ruined government, read “The Wrecking Crew how conservatives rule” by Thomas Frank.
“If the ‘leaders’ of our country don’t stop spending so irresponsibly like they are we, our children and their children after that will have no bright future. Our dollars, those earned and those saved, will have no value in the world.”
Boxlock you said it best. I have been saying this as a conservative for decades. Unfortunately, neither political party supports the concept.
It is already in the bag, so to speak, that our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will NOT have a bright future – they will have to pay off the debt all our politicians have wracked up.
Wait until Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid outlays exceed revenue collected. We are already funding these out of the general fund (thank-you LBJ), but the amount will increase substantially once 77 million Baby boomers retire.
Just think: 25 percent of the US Population will be retired.
Who is going to support them?
B.J.
“how business has infiltrated, sabotaged, and ruined government, read “The Wrecking Crew”
Government has an affect on your life no? So you get involved. You call legislators, you write letters to the editor, if you are a union member the union involves itself in the legislative process, you join organizations that get involved like the NEA NRA ACLU AARP etc.etc.etc…..
Business is affected by government as well, and in many cases much more so. In some cases the stakes are huge. Small businesses join the Chamber and other industry specific organizations to lobby on their behalf. Farmers join certain organizations to lobby for them. Big businesses hire their own lobbyists.
Government affects business so business gets involved, just like you do because you are affected. The more government policy affects business the more they will get involved.
You want Business out of government? Get government out of regulating business. It’s that simple.
Ah, the golden boy finally comes to the Fed (and us) with his hat in hand. Gosh, that will be a turning moment to remember.
To what does that refer? Well, Goldman Sachs who seemed to have the Midas touch now wants to change the game. We had to stay mum about an event while it appeared that they knew what they were doing. But, now the proper analysis can be done and written up.
What event? Well, Spirit and Turner’s big pockets for one thing. Both the IAM and SPEEA were touched by that event in 2005 and not positively.
Then, there is the issue of the strike where the sides seem entrenched.
Boeing ought to apologize for trashing people’s lives in 2005; methinks that the aura of the riches clouded many sights back then. One way would be to get Carson’s ego out of the picture.
Perhaps, now the pendulum will swing enough for us to get back some balance; too, the proper story can now be told. And, folks, it is very interesting.
Mind you, those who got in later on that deal (and why does that model seem like the ponzi deal? – think Minsky’s view of these things) had their lunch eaten. That’s another story to tell.
Interesting, isn’t it, how bj blames one party exclusively for these finanacial problems, yet most other posters more realistically recognize, as American Way did, “Unfortunately, neither political party supports the concept”
This is not a partisan issue, and the time for placing blame is long gone. Both ’sides’ have their faults in this…but pointing fingers will not solve anything. This is a crisis that could destroy our entire civilization while people sit around and blame others. What has happened to other civilizations could happen here. It is time to quit the blame game and get to work on resolving this.
GET RID OF THE FED, GET RID OF THEIR COLLECTION AGENCY, THE IRS. NOW.
“This is not a partisan issue, and the time for placing blame is long gone.”
The problem with that is the notion that being a conservative repuke means you never have to say you are sorry.
This is EXACTLY the time to be sorting out blame. How about let’s NOT send back to washington the same folks who created this mess. Let’s NOT send the great deregulator to the white house to deregulate some more. Let’s own up to mistakes. You repukes? How about you admit your mistakes FIRST this time?
Dont like that? heh. Didnt think you would…
But then, facts are such pesky things. And voters love spin more than truth. The best liar wins.
Accountability. It’s not just for breakfast anymore. And apparantly, it’s not for the voting booth either.
TELL THESE PEOPLE, WE AIN’T PAYING A DIME OF THESE BILLIONS AND WE’RE NOT BAILING ANY BANKER OUT.
Interesting how none of the CONs want to talk about the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
NEXT APRIL 15TH, DO NOTHING. DON’T FILE, ANYONE.
See rap?
“Get government out of regulating business. It’s that simple.:
THAT kind of statement is why we need some accountability. The guilty will call it “blame”. Whatever.
Because, ya know, the cure for the ills caused by deregulation is.. wait for it…
MORE deregulation.
WTF color is the sky in your world?
#
Pleefer
Posted September 22, 2008 at 8:46 am | Permalink
NEXT APRIL 15TH, DO NOTHING. DON’T FILE, ANYONE.
========================
Yeah, you can join Wesley Snipes and a long list of other tax evaders who decided not to pay taxes in the prison line.
IF WE TAKE NO CHANCES, THEY WIN AND WE GET TO BAIL RICH GUYS OUT, BANKRUPT OURSELVES AND DESTROY AMERICA. THIS IS THE WORLD’S BIGGEST BANK ROBBERY AND WE’RE GONNA LET IT HAPPEN.
I’m gonna haul out this quote:
“Get government out of regulating business. It’s that simple.”
Every goddam time you cons say “no one is arguing for unfettered and unregulated capitalism” like GMC said the other day.
Uh, I beg to differ. NO regulation, unfettered and unregulated capitalism, is EXACTLY what the true believer repukes want.
And voters will be just dumb enough to send back the incumbents who gave it to them the first time.
“Please sir, may I have another” said the pledge to the pledgemaster with the paddle.
WEAKLING. Wesley Snipes is right on. The Income Tax is illegal and unjust, you are just too dumb to know it. You can’t tax someone’s LABOR.
You’d be the one snitching out the Tea Party.
Yeah Monkey. The facts, they like not so much. And let’s talk about the repeal of Glass-Stegall. Another of phil gramm’s little games. And HE is who mcsame wants in charge of the Treasury Dept? AFTER we give Treasury all this power that is specifically exempt from OVERSIGHT? Uh huh.
And no one mentions that gramm’s wife wendy is the head of the Commodity Trading Futures Board?
Google Wendy Gramm.
Those wacky repukes. They DO like to keep it all in the family…
Tax evader’s…sheesh another stupudd Amerikan.
Ya gotta wonder what the cons here are so afraid of that they wont even read The Wrecking Crew.
Truth hurts, no?
Shock Doctrine would REALLY hurt. If they read it. But they wont.
Ignorance really IS bliss if you are a true believer con.
KFG, you may or may not be interested. I have began construction of my coop for future egg layers. It is going good, however it will not be purple. I have settled on the Orpingtons for producers. I am looking forward to completion of said coop.
Once again Blue Jay punks out on answering the question ,What makes him think he is entitled to the fruits of other peoples labor.
KFG….accept the blame of the Dems then…did you bother reading the above quote…
“’These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,’’ said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ‘’The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.’’
Like I said..BOTH parties share the blame…but sitting around pointing fingers will not do a thing to solve anything. Of course, you would obviously rather assign blame than try to work forward. I am not suggestign we ‘walk away’ from it as you so callously imply. It is a crisis that needs attention…and not the diversions of blame that you so love to assign.
I see the CONS are blaming the little guy and Community reinvestment again. This might be true if the meltdown were happening mostly in owner-occupied homes in modest neighborhoods – but it is not. These homes are in the Eastborougs and Tallrasses of America – not the Planeviews and Hilltops.
There are two major players on that end – people who decided to buy their mig McMansions and speculators buying to flip and/or rent out properties. It is hard for me to feel much sympathy for them – however I do feel sympathy for their neighbors.
So if you dont know HOW it happened, rap, how can you fix it?
Just close your eyes and click your heels three times and that’s it?
Typical republican….
Please repost where I suggested democrats have no blame. Please repost where I only wanted to place blame.
You cant. You just read what you want to read, no matter WHAT is written. How’s that “trust me” thing working for this country?
And you call yourself a patriot….
Can’t wait for the first egg salad!…..and fried chicken..
In this case it was the financial sector not the military………
A coup d’état (pronounced /ku?de??t??/ AHD: [ko?o"d? tä]), often simply called a coup, is the sudden overthrow of a government by a part of the state establishment — usually the military — to replace the branch of the stricken government, either with another civil government or with a military government.
The coup d’état succeeds if its opponents fail to thwart the usurpers, allowing them to consolidate their positions, obtain the surrender of the overthrown government or acquiescence of the populace and the surviving armed forces, and thus claim legitimacy. Coups d’état typically use the power of the existing government for the takeover. As Edward Luttwak remarks in Coup d’État: A Practical Handbook: A coup consists of the infiltration of a small, but critical, segment of the state apparatus, which is then used to displace the government from its control of the remainder. In this sense, the use of either military or another organized force is not the defining feature of a coup d’état.
I think the WHO of what caused this mess is important. WHY would you send the same folks that gave you this, BACK to Washington to do more of the same? The repukes brought you deregulation. Deregulation is at the heart of this mess. So… in this election year, let’s ignore WHO and WHICH party brought you this deregulation?
Yeah. Right. That kind of head in the sand thinking, or lack of thinking, is what got us here.
Gets back to the “cause is deregulation, so we need MORE deregulation, more of the CAUSE, to make things right”.
jesus WEPT!
I appreciate your breed advice KFG on the Chicks.
Heheh Annie. And I believe it was Cynthia McKinney who first called the election of 2000 “the coup d’état of the United States”.
But hey, she’s such a nut job with bad hair, so she couldnt POSSIBLY have been right!
only in con world…
KFG,
Congrats on the writing gig.If you make your points like you make them here,truth and humor, you will have those folks scatching their heads and saying HMMMM.
ksfrmcarpetmunchergrrl-
Why did the demorats meet in closed door secret meetings this weekend?
Thanks freebird. The editor who hired me said he wanted my “humor and viewpoint” so people here might finally GET IT!
We’ll see. I hope my columns generate lots of LTTEs. Ya never know what might happen if voters are forced to THINK for a change.
What paper is it? Might subscribe just for your column
If you will indulge me KFG, do you recommend a screened floor or solid floor for the coop?
biased1
Hope your going to enjoy your new higher taxes and lowered purchasing power. I forsee a second job in your future hehehehe
“biased1″ raises the intellectual stakes with –
“ksfrmcarpetmunchergrrl-”
The sun is barely up and the CONs are already reduced to 8th-grade level name-calling.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 22, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink
Thanks freebird. The editor who hired me said he wanted my “humor and viewpoint” so people here might finally GET IT!
We’ll see. I hope my columns generate lots of LTTEs. Ya never know what might happen if voters are forced to THINK for a change.
———————–
We expect you to slip in an occasional hint of a recipe in your writings.
Otherwise, there will be a chicken hostage situation. :)
NO regulation, unfettered and unregulated capitalism, is EXACTLY what the true believer repukes want.
Is what conservatives want. And with that risk/reward, comes the possibility of failure. Let them fail. No one is too big to fail. They took the risk, saw some reward… time to pay the piper.
Ya gotta wonder what the cons here are so afraid of that they wont even read The Wrecking Crew.
Farmie, here is another good read.
The Revolution: A Manifesto
HA Reg! One of the columns I’m writing is about food, the growing, buying, and cooking of it all.
I expect the whole town to gain more weight just from reading!
ksfrmcarpetmunchergrrl-
Republican: bad decisions/legislation=dirty, filthy, lying, greedy, fire them, arrest them, investigate, indict them, destroy them..on and on and on…..
Demorat: bad decisions/legislation=this is everyones fault, we all need to pull together…..
Typical libturd, takes no responsibility….
“They took the risk, saw some reward… time to pay the piper.”
Yeah Sol. Moral hazard indeed. Privatize the profits, socialize the costs.
That’s why I think it is so damn funny when the cons here start whining about socialism. Bushco has effectively nationalized a sector of the economy, and they whine that obama is a socialist?
heheh. HAHAHAHAH. HEE HEE HEEHEEEEEEEEEEE.
Deregulation, in con speak, means, “let me rape you, then you pay for the rape kit in the investigation”.
And you know what I mean!
So MonkeyHawk, now you know why some folks are just on ignore….Mommy will be home soon to unplug the computer.
OK, never mind the peaceful chicken conversation KFG. I see you have other motives.
I am off to swing a hammer.
Ha Freebird. It’s the Western Kansas World.
Audacious name, no? heheheheh.
Anti, I recommend a solid floor. The screened and slatted ones are good for the owner, not the chickens. And it’s the chickens who produce. I also recommend peat moss for the bedding on the floor, and CLEAN straw for the nests, and make sure they have something to roost on at night. Fresh water twice daily and good food once a day. They need fresh air and sunshine too, so a good pen is needed.
They will reward you many times over. And the Buff Orpingtons will LOVE you. Other breeds, not so much.
And the fertilizer they produce for the garden? Priceless.
If the ONe and his demorat party weren’t assdeep involved in this mortgage/finacial crisis, you can bet they wouldn’t be calling for “bipartisianship” and meeting in closed door private meetings all weekend………
I’ll tell them Farmgirl sent me
just think biased when you are this old you will still be working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWGdM3FIZmM
Heh, they may not know who “farmgirl” or “farmgrrl” is. On-line is not something they do. Kinda presidential like mcsame, ya know?
And the Buff Orpingtons will LOVE you.
======
That’s what worries me. I have a soft heart, and this will make it hard for me to make fried chicken out of them. Thanks for the advice, I am off to finish framing the coop!
I dont butcher the Buffs. I use Cornish Cross for meat, Buff Orpington for eggs. The Cornish Cross are thugs. Makes it easier to whack heads when the time comes. Heheheh. I love farming…
Neo-Con=National Socialist
Neo-Lib=Communist
Socialism anyone?
Only this time with added Police State and Martial Law!
The coup happened on December 23, 1913 when Congress went on Christmas vacation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act
Now Paulson says congress has no say in the current situation too.
When American’s finally get the guts to take back our God-given rights, it will have been far too late.
Isn’t it funny how during the primaries Ron Paul was the “kook” and “crazy uncle”? Now every talking head program is begging him to be on because he has the soundest understanding of our economy, the mistakes made by both parties and both branches, and the solutions to get us back on track.
But yeah, he is a “kook” right?
Looks forward to ANTI’s adventures in determining the proper time for “fryers, boilers and broilers.” :D
“Just think: 25 percent of the US Population will be retired.
Who is going to support them?”
American_Way,
As you already know, we as conservatives believe that we ourselves are responsible for supporting ourselves and providing for our families and theirs in the future.
People like BlueJay, and other DimLibs, want to steal it by force of government from those that honestly earn it.
As I have said…they are dispicable parasites!
“As you already know, we as conservatives believe that we ourselves are responsible for supporting ourselves and providing for our families and theirs in the future.”
If that’s the case why the bailout? The masters of the universe can’t give up the summer house in the Hamptons?
Good call, Sol.
Listen to the libs like JR rationalize YOU giving money to HIM.
That’s the bottom line.
Cut to the chase JR.
I love how the republiCONS are against government handouts for people. But they LOVE government handouts for big business.
They hate govenment. Until they dont.
Hypocrisy, thy name is…
LIB RATIONALIZATIONS FOR STEALING MONEY FROM THOSE WHO EARN IT:
But I need this!
I need that!
You have more!
I don’t!
All their drool translates to:
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
I would have more respect for them if they just held out a tin cup.
Instead, they make fools of themselves in trying to rationalize their theft of others.
“If that’s the case why the bailout? The masters of the universe can’t give up the summer house in the Hamptons?”
Heheheh. I guess boxy and maxy dont mind if their tax dollars go to welfare for the rich.
I do.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 22, 2008 at 9:49 am | Permalink
I love how the republiCONS are against government handouts for people. But they LOVE government handouts for big business.
================================================================
More drooling.
And CONSERVATIVES are against goverenment handouts to business.
As for the current bailout Farmie, I see Republicans and Democrats lining up to vote for the latest $700 Billion bailout this week.
Democrats are not objecting to this, nor are Repbulicans.
Do not confuse Conservative with Republican. They are not the same.
But they LOVE government handouts for big business.
Who, besides Econ, supports the bailouts. Most right leaners I know are furious over this.
I want my tax dollars spent on welfare for no one. Foreign nor domestic.
Comrade Grubnick,
Your boys just socialized the banking industry. Were all commies now.
Comrade Grubnick,
Hillary did not even have to take away your guns to do it. The cons did it without her help.
As for Government handouts to Individuals, all Conservatives I know are for some limited welfare to make sure people are not starving to death. And there is Medicaid and Schips, and numerous other programs to keep people fed, clothed, and in housing, and also provide for some medical care.
What some poor seem to think is that they are ENTITLED to PREMIUM handouts, and the same standard of living that working people have EARNED. This is WRONG.
You have a Right to eat in this country (right to live, unless you are unborn) but you don’t have the right to eat steak and lobster.
50% of the country is obese, and the “POOR” today are the fattest cows on the land.
You see anyone starving?
What Conservatives are against, is the perpetual ENABLING of deadbeats, people who CHOOSE not to work, because they don’t have to.
What the Libs want, is to sit on their fat lazy a*ses, and steal Income AND Property from those who have Earned More then they have. This is WRONG.
outlander
Posted September 22, 2008 at 7:45 am
About 50% of the citizens in this country don’t pay anything in taxes to support it.
LIE.
They don’t pay income taxes.
They still pay plenty of taxes like Social Security which goes right into the general fund until the employee is 65. Also property taxes, sales taxes, car tags, fees on phones etc. etc.
The poor pay a HIGHER SHARE of their income to taxes than the rich do, by far . . . even without income taxes.
Make no mistake Animous, “my boys” were not the ones who took over the banking business.
Conservatives want no part of this.
Do not confuse Republican with Conservative. They are not the same.
And keep your powder dry, Government isn’t done taking over things yet.
MaxGrobnik plays the right-wing CON game of blaming the victim.
The RICH are the ones who get the government subsidies in dollars. The poor get pennies.
As evidence, see this:
Fury at $2.5bn Lehman bonus
Staff at Lehman’s New York office who helped to cause the world’s biggest corporate bankruptcy are to share in a $2.5 billion bonanza.
The bonus, which has been described by London staff as a “scandal” has been pledged by Barclays Capital, the British-based bank that last week acquired Lehman’s American operation and took on 10,000 staff.
The $2.5 billion (£1.4 billion) pot, which has been ring-fenced as part of the acquisition, has caused huge resentment among the 5,000 staff in the firm’s European and Middle Eastern operations who are not guaranteed to be paid after this month.
*****
The RepubliCON bill to bail out big financial speculators specifically forbids limiting CEO pay in any way.
So . . . we buy the “toxic debt” of wild speculators and they walk off with their million dollar pay packages.
Welfare for the rich.
CapnAmerica
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:01 am | Permalink
The poor pay a HIGHER SHARE of their income to taxes than the rich do, by far . . . even without income taxes.
==================================================================
Yup, perfectly unfair. When you earn $5,000/yr and pay 7.65% for SS/Medicare, you pay 7.65% of your income. Plus you pay zero for Federal and State income taxes.
When you earn $50,000/yr and pay 7.65% for SS/Medicare, you pay 7.65% of your income. Plus you pay 17.7% ($8,844) in Federal taxes.
Terribly unfair.
Listen to Max–”Republicans are not true CONservatives.”
Really?
But you’ll vote straight ticket Republican just like every other time, won’t you, Max.
Cons vent all you want about JR,
He to the best of my knowledge is working, self sustaining ect.,
Did not participate in the $700 billion bailout.
That’s the real issue here, one sector of society screwing over another.
“Who, besides Econ, supports the bailouts. Most right leaners I know are furious over this. ”
I sure don’t support the government firing up the printing presses and placing us all in even more in debt.
Ignorant folks make comments like this; “Heheheh. I guess boxy and maxy dont mind if their tax dollars go to welfare for the rich.”
I’ll bet people that make ridiculous comments like that don’t even pay taxes, but probably are receiving benefits from those that do.
“MaxGrobnik” –
The 1980s called. They want their talking points back.
Seems like CONs recite the same old boilerplate rhetoric like Tourette on a crack binge.
I challenge you or any of you CONs to live “the good life” for 30 days on what your hypothetical “lazy butt” can eke out on ADC and food stamps and Medicaid.
You’d get fat, too, if all you could afford were starches, cheap hamburger, and refined sugar.
Okay, Max,
Now do the math for 5,000 with ALL the taxes thrown in, like gasoline taxes and phone taxes and electric fees and natural gas heating etc etc.
And then do the math for 500,000.
The person who earns half a million a year pays far less in taxes percentage wise.
Because a ten dollar fee on one’s gas bill is a much higher percentage of 5000 than of 500,000.
BTW, I got this idea (that the poor pay a higher percentage in taxes/income) from Warren Buffett. If you think you’re smarter than he is, be my guest . . .
MHawk–
That’s just what I was thinking too. This mythical “welfare queen” has been de-bunked a thousand ways from Sunday, but the CONs love her so much, they refuse to let her die . . .
Yup, perfectly unfair. When you earn $5,000/yr and pay 7.65% for SS/Medicare, you pay 7.65% of your income. Plus you pay zero for Federal and State income taxes.
When you earn $50,000/yr and pay 7.65% for SS/Medicare, you pay 7.65% of your income. Plus you pay 17.7% ($8,844) in Federal taxes. Plus 5.1%($2,548) in Kansas State taxes.
Terribly unfair.
So, the guy earning $5,000 per year:
Pays $382.50 in taxes. That’s a total of 7.65%.
.
.
The guy earning $50,000 per year:
Pays $15,217 in taxes. That’s a total of 30.4%
.
.
TERRIBLY UNFAIR.
When I first started working earning the minimum wage I still paid income taxes both state and federal.
Bumpersticker seen recently–
It’s a class war and the rich are winning.
Capn can’t you do math?
What, you expect the poor to pay ZERO taxes?
YOU go ahead and figure the gasoline taxes, (The poor have cars?), phone taxes, cell phone taxes, cable/satellite taxes, beer taxes, wine taxes, car registration fees, drivers license fees, gas/electric taxes…
Dang, you LIBS have more taxes to dream up don’t you? YOU are the ones who want more taxes! What you btiching about??????
Max–
Simply reposting what you posted before in response to my points does not refute my points.
What a maroon.
How much do you want to pay for the Government pie?
How much do you want to pay for the Government pie?
When will people learn that Government can’t solve all of our problems?
There ain’t enough money on the money tree folks, to pay for EVERYTHING your heart desires.
$9 Trillion in Personal Net Income
$3 Trillion taken for Federal Taxes
$2 Trillion taken by State, Local Government
There’s only $4 Trillion left guys.
How much you paying for YOUR share of the pie?
How much do you want to pay for the Government pie?
Maybe the libs will start baking their own pies.
You’re not invited grubby…………
$3,000,000,000,000 Per Year in Federal Government Spending!!!
300,000,000 Americans.
–Your share then is $10,000 Per Year.
–Add your spouse and significant other, then you owe $20,000 Per Year.
–Add your spouse & 2 kids, then you owe $40,000 Per Year.
Are you paying for your share of the Pie? Or are you getting your pie for free?
You Leftist Socialist Libs are trying to Steal More Free Pie!
Max your forgetting Sales tax, Gasoline taxes, excise taxes on electricity, Natural gas, phones. annual car tags no doubt countless taxes I’m forgetting
Max – using a single taxpayer making 50K I get 6743 fed tax and 2415 KS state taxes. Also, of course, 3100 SS and 725 Medicare.
annie_moose
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:25 am | Permalink
How much do you want to pay for the Government pie?
Maybe the libs will start baking their own pies.
You’re not invited grubby…………
==================================================================
LIGHT BULB!!!!
Look out!
Annie’s getting it!
GO MAKE YOUR OWN PIE! YES!!!!!
And, “MaxGrobnik” –
Just to make things equal, if you agree to live 30 days like one of your imaginary Welfare Queens, I’ll commit to a similar challenge.
I’ll live for 30 days only on what the ex-CEO of Lehman Brothers gets.
My calc, by the way, was based on 2007 rates. I don’t have 2008 numbers just yet.
There’s just over $9 Trillion in EARNED Personal Income. That is the size of the entire pie.
The Federal Government takes $3 Trillion of that in Federal Taxes.
The State/Local Governments take $2 Trillion more. (State Income tax, sales tax, property tax, local taxes, license/registration fees, park fees, fee fees, etc…)
9 minus 5 leaves just 4 Trillion left of the People’s Earned Income to keep for ourselves. Obama’s spending plans will take at least another 1 Trillion. That leaves 3 Trillion left. So we keep 1/3 of what we earn ON AVERAGE.
But it’s worse then that. 1/2 the People support the other half. So we keep 1/6 of what we earn ON AVERAGE.
Happy Socialism!
Most of the Federal budget is military spending and paying interest on the National debt.
“That’s just what I was thinking too. This mythical “welfare queen” has been de-bunked a thousand ways from Sunday, but the CONs love her so much, they refuse to let her die . . .”
Reagan loved to tell those stories. A welfare queen living in Chicago had 15 Cadillacs, etc. etc. Not said, but implied, was that she was black.
The Republican party knows how to pander to people’s fears and hatreds. That is what makes them “successful” in destroying our country.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:01 am | Permalink
outlander
Posted September 22, 2008 at 7:45 am
About 50% of the citizens in this country don’t pay anything in taxes to support it.
LIE.
They don’t pay income taxes.
They still pay plenty of taxes like Social Security which goes right into the general fund until the employee is 65. Also property taxes, sales taxes, car tags, fees on phones etc. etc.
The poor pay a HIGHER SHARE of their income to taxes than the rich do, by far . . . even without income taxes.
——————-
So, they pay into SS. They expect to get a direct return for that. The government tells us what a good deal it is. The rest of what you mentioned are state and local taxes.
****************
“The poor pay a HIGHER SHARE of their income to taxes than the rich do, by far . . . even without income taxes.” – Capn America
—————-
Then let’s get a flat tax enacted so they don’t. And still have the chance to gain the self-respect that comes with paying their own way. Even if it is just a little.
Maxie,
Your taxes are going to go UP…..no other way to pay for this mess
Military spending going down down, we are a debtor nation. Hands out dependant on the kindness of the world.
China
Russia
India
EU
Middle East
Monkeyhawk
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:28 am | Permalink
And, “MaxGrobnik” –
Just to make things equal, if you agree to live 30 days like one of your imaginary Welfare Queens, I’ll commit to a similar challenge.
I’ll live for 30 days only on what the ex-CEO of Lehman Brothers gets.
=============================================================
ENVY!
Keep drooling, Monkey.
If you can’t earn it, then steal it.
“Happy Socialism!”
A trillion to abil out the financial industry and its CEOs. Yep – it sure is a Happy Socialism for THEM!
“If you can’t earn it, then steal it.”
The motto of the modern CEO.
“Do not confuse Republican with Conservative. They are not the same.”
As Thomas Frank says this is the first refuge of Republican scoundrals. What a joke!
“believe that we ourselves are responsible for supporting ourselves and providing for our families”
Boxlock, I’m not disagreeing with your ideals. What I was referring to is the promised social security and medicare benefits which the government is obligated to pay.
Many are finally seeing the gloom a 9 trillion dollar debt plus this financial WELFARE bailout will add to that debt – and the negative effect on our nation. Most here don’t care abou the “our nation” part of it. But they do now recognize the effects on their own standard of living.
And this debt is going to be coming due at the same time our children and grandchildren will be asked to pay MORE for FICA and Medicare. The 7.65% for the employee plus the 7.65% for the employer will not cover the future combined outlays for:
1. Social Security benefits (as promised)
2. The debt payments (interest only)
When 1/4 of Americans are retired.
When 1/4 are working (72 million under age 18 today)
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t9/tables/tab01.xls
The government should start manufacturing chains now so they have enough of them to chain workers to their jobs when the time comes.
LIBERAL MANTRA,
Wash, rinse, repeat…
LIB RATIONALIZATIONS FOR STEALING MONEY FROM THOSE WHO EARN IT:
But I need this!
I need that!
You have more!
I don’t!
All their drool translates to:
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
GIMME!
“MaxGrobnik” –
Sounds like you envy those “lazy butt” Welfare Queens you were ranting about. Living in your imaginary lap of luxury off your dime.
But to be honest with ya, I do kinda envy you “MaxGrobnik.” If I were like you I wouldn’t have to think anymore.
Maybe the libs will start baking their own pies.
Look for big business to do this as well; headquartering outside the US to avoid the taxation. That equals lower revenue for the US. Look for many SMB’s to get tapped as well. Watch how many fail inder the higher tax burden; equals less revenue for the US.
Y’all want a dose of reality? Look at Michigan. The governor overtaxed a downturned economy. Now it is the worst in the US. But y’all are screaming for higher taxes? Don’t learn from experience or past mistakes much huh?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece
Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.
Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”
Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.
******
That was just on income taxes and Social Security taxes.
Why does the One now favor the “Bush tax cuts?”
“gain the self-respect that comes with paying their own way”
But they would NOT be patriotic, unless they are helpin to pay the way for others.
Heck AmWay, just because you paid more into Social Security and Medicare then most folks, doesn’t mean you are entitled to ANYTHING!
Social Security/Medicare is just a TAX.
In the next 5 to 10 years, any Social Security benefits paid out will be subjected to a MEANS TEST.
-If you have $250,000 in Assets (including your home, car, and savings), then you get NOTHING.
-If you have $125,000 in Assets, then you get Half your SS.
-If you have less then $125,000 in Assets, then you get ALL of your SS.
AIN’T LIFE FAIR?
Free bootin
Free bootin
Kickin up your feet in the sand
Free bootin
Free bootin
Living off the fat of the land!
biased1
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:41 am | Permalink
Why does the One now favor the “Bush tax cuts?”
===============================================================
The wind direction changed.
What we really need is an itemized data base of Republicans and their properties, so they can be burglarized later. Do you suppose we’ll have heroic criminals again, robbing from the rich and giving to the poor?
Correction–Buffett may have been including State taxes too . . . the article isn’t entirely clear.
So what Capn? Because Warren Buffett and his chums can afford to eat at $4,600 lunch – that justifies stealing more money for your purposes?
Give it a rest. Warren is not exactly the poster boy for the democratic party. He didn’t make his riches being nice and handing out money.
He is an old fart who has lived a life of riches – and now wants a legacy as being a caring person.
Like spending $2,800 at an Obama dinner plus 2,500 more for the concert – is blue collar….
It probably has something to do with the capital gains tax being only 15 percent as opposed to taxes on income from . . . uh . . . you know . . . actual work.
AmWay–
Throw your feces, little monkey.
The fact is that a guy who makes 80 million dollars a year pays a lower rate of taxation than his cleaning lady.
Not one Liberal here stepped up and provided a figure when asked:
“How much more do you want to pay in Income taxes?”
The LIBS are all for SOMEONE ELSE paying more taxes, but not themselves. According to Biden, these Hypocrites are not Patriotic.
Why do the Ones children attend private schools?
That fact seems to belie your contention that the “poor just want to steal money from the rich via taxation,” does it not?
Yup, facts are stubborn things.
Easier just to sling the crap.
‘heroic criminals again, robbing from the rich and giving to the poor’
They are called the democratic party.
heroic criminals again, robbing from the taxpayers and giving to the rich
They are called the republican party, with democrat controlled congress voting AYE!
Not one Liberal here stepped up and provided a figure when asked:
“How much more do you want to pay for Energy, in order to solve Global Warming?”
Again, the LIBS are all for SOMEONE ELSE paying for solutions. The LIBS don’t want to sacrifice anything, don’t want to lift one finger even, if it means additional effort to contribute to a solution.
Free bootin
Free bootin…
“THAT is called thinking you are ENTITLED to PREMIUM handouts. Steak and lobster, no?”
Oh, and they are taking MY money that I earned and then paid into the government as taxes.
Where is your goddamn outrage about THAT?
Or.. perhaps… YOU are the one who pays no taxes?
That figgers….
Biassed got “The One” thing from Michelle Malkin.
‘Nuff said.
“The fact is that a guy who makes 80 million dollars a year pays a lower rate of taxation than his cleaning lady.”
That may be, but for MOST rich people, those in the top 5%: they are funding America the most.
If the One continues to bow to the teachers union, is that “change” or more of the same.
biased1
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:49 am | Permalink
Why do the Ones children attend private schools?
====================================================================
Because he knows how crappy public schools are.
Hey, Max–
I’ll answer your question if you answer mine:
How much are you willing to pay personally to support the war in Iraq?
Kommrad Max, you are just insane.
“Again, the LIBS are all for SOMEONE ELSE paying for solutions.”
…and YOU are for SOMEONE ELSE paying for “solutions” that were in search of a problem.
Like the iraq war.
Like bailing out the banking industry.
Like adding to already obscene corporate profits for oil companies.
We all pay. You just like to pay for corporate welfare. We dont.
And WE are the ones advocating socialism?
Project much?
AmWay–
The top 5 percent make the most money. They benefit the most.
So of course they fund America the most.
Big deal.
“That may be, but for MOST rich people”
Nice crawfish aw.
If it werent for backpedaling, you’d be doing no pedaling at all.
Sidebar to cool off.
God is sitting in Heaven when a scientist says to Him, ‘Lord, we don’t need you anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to create life
out of nothing.
In other words, we can now do what you did in the ‘beginning’.’
‘Oh, is that so? Tell me…’ replies God.
‘Well’, says the scientist, ‘we can take dirt and form it into the
likeness of you and breathe life into it, thus creating man.’
‘Well, that’s interesting. Show Me. ‘
So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil.
‘Oh no, no, no…’ interrupts God, ‘Get your own dirt.’
Why do the Ones children attend private schools?
Because he has a job an income and his personal choice to send his children where he deems fit.
You know the American dream.
Jealous little mister?
Funny how neither ‘side’ is talking about reducing spending? Cutting the size of government. Abolishing programs. Disbanding agencies. Removing entitlements.
Tax/spend…borrow/spend. Both lead to utter failure of this nation.
Funny how the CONs are always “against the arrogance of science.”
They don’t have any problem at all with “free enterprize” putting the genes of a sea maggot or something into corn and permanently altering the DNA of the world’s most important staple crop and selling it unlabelled in our food supply.
Nah, that’s just “business.”
Now speculating on the evolution of humankind?
BLASPHAMY!
If it werent for backpedaling, you’d be doing no pedaling at all.
Farmgirl read it yourself:
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
The rich are paying more. You can cry me a river about what the word “fair” and “share” means all day long (I’ll even loan you my unused box of Kleenex).
Hey Libtards,
Would it be a “big deal” if John McCain was associated with an abortion clinic bomber?
Biased–
You’ve become a parody of yourself.
Capn, Ive mentioned a War Tax to to pay for Iraq before, and I suspect than if the War Hawks actually had to pay for it most would be on the streets calling for its end.
Remember AmWay,
Kerry’s wife, Theresa Hinz had over $500 Million in tax-free municipal bonds.
Dang rich pathetic Democrats, she earned $40 Million/year in interest income and paid ZERO tax on that!
Those Municipal Utilities bonds should be taxable! Course then the Municipal Utilities would have to pay higher interest on their bonds, if they were taxable.
And that would mean higher energy rates for the poor! Gasp!!!!
“biased1″ –
“libtards?”
Who’s writing your material? Are some of “Regular’s” cub scouts moonlighting?
CapnAmerica
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:53 am | Permalink
Hey, Max–
I’ll answer your question if you answer mine:
How much are you willing to pay personally to support the war in Iraq?
=====================================================================
More Liberal drool. The Rationalizations continue.
annie_moose_licker- Because he has a job an income and his personal choice to send his children where he deems fit.
You know the American dream.
Jealous little mister?
————————————————-
Is that fair?
Good point, Tom.
You notice that Max won’t answer that question.
BTW, Max, I’d be willing to pay 3x what I currently pay for energy if it were non-polluting energy.
“Are some of “Regular’s” cub scouts moonlighting?”
Times are tough, MonkeyHawk. I know us rich cat libs havent noticed, but it’s so bad that even the TROLLS have to work two jobs…
“I want higher taxes!” screamed the Lib.
“How much more do YOU want to pay?” asked Max.
And the Crickets all sang:
-chirp
-chirp
-chirp
I never said I wanted higher taxes Capn. Why would I give you a figure for how much more I wanted to pay?
YOU are the ones begging for higher taxes. So tell me, pray tell, how much more exactly- do you want to pay?
“BTW, Max, I’d be willing to pay 3x what I currently pay for energy if it were non-polluting energy.”
Damn captain. Now you’ve given maxy/boxy an opening to say “but you probably pay NOTHING for your energy right now”.
‘Cause ya know, he and his pay for EVERYTHING for EVERY democrat….
Oh, and BOO! We’re taking away your guns!
bedwetters
“neither ‘side’ is talking about reducing spending”
The sides are both wrong. Neither will admit it. Ron Paul isn’t on a side. Maybe that’s why he is so good.
But back on topic, the government will finally cut spending when the nations financial position completely collapses. The dollar will be worth a penny, the world will realize we are already broke, and when we most of us cannot afford to eat or sleep, the foreigners will buy us out.
Hawaii will go first to the highest bidder. Although California is tempting to foreign ownership, there are personnel issues that come with taking over the left coast.
I imagine Kansas will be bought by some desert country. We will be working for their kings. Much like those who built the pyramids.
“let my people go!”
Sol, Close oversees military bases, leave NATO, cut military spending by 1/4, end the war on drugs, end farm subsidies, do we need a dz federal law enforcement agencies, dz intelligence agencies. control earmarks.
I think the republiCON fear of anything for the common good has CREATED what they feared most.
Socialism.
And now that the government has seized the means of production for one industry, the financial industry, do you think the republiCONS before they leave power, will put communism fully into effect.
You scared yourselves into what you feared most. Enjoy.
Dang rich pathetic Democrats, she earned $40 Million/year in interest income and paid ZERO tax on that!
a safe legal investment wise woman. maybe some day she will run for prez…..
Hey, Senator McSame, which is it? Boxers or briefs?
“Depends.”
CUE the rimshot
I’ll be here all week. Tip the veal and try your waitress..
People, let’s catch a clue here, okay?
What in our economy has grown in the last 8 years?
Was it jobs? NO, we had a jobless recovery!
Was it manufacturing? NO, that was outsourced!
Was it innovation? NO, that was oursourced, too!
So what grew the U.S. economy in the last 8 years?
FINANCING! and that was pretty much it.
We, every last one of us, is responsible for the Bush fornication of our great country. Time to pay your penitence. Whips or more, your choice – but hey, we’ll get our money back. Yeah, right.
“I’d be willing to pay 3x what I currently pay for energy ”
I’m betting you will get your chance. But it won’t be for non-polluting.
American_Way
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:15 am | Permalink
“I’d be willing to pay 3x what I currently pay for energy ”
I’m betting you will get your chance. But it won’t be for non-polluting.
================================================================
And he’ll be btiching every day about $12/gal gasoline.
(BTW, that’s what I paid in Europe last June, $12/gal.)
Tom, and dont forget the added fiscal benefit of closing prisons, both private and public, and laying off lots of law enforcement and the folks who work in prisons, when the “war” on “drugs” is ended.
Like I keep sayin’ the CONS here dont hate public spending, as long as it fuels THEIR paranoia. They just hate public spending for the common good. Public spending to benefit special interests and private business? Well, hell.
THAT’s the AMERICAN WAY!
Listen to the libs like JR rationalize YOU giving money to HIM.
That’s the bottom line.
Cut to the chase JR.
(Instead we hear all this BUZZIN going on – reasons for Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. When you can’t come up with reasons, go with distractions. When distractions don’t work, try personal attacks. When that fails, then stop bloggin and get a job.)
“We will be working for their kings.”
If you are paid in or hold any DOLLARS, you already ARE working for their kings!
And now president paulson wants to bail out their foreign banks too!
Like they used to say about Bill Gates…
“Why dont we just give the foreigners ALL our money right now and get it over with?”
Gentle people…
I’m not going to say, “gimme, gimme, gimme”.
All I want is to be able to compete on a level playing field, and I will make my own way.
Sadly, that is impossible, thanks to the way hedge funds have raped the First Amendment, and big broadcasters and the evil cable industry have bid up Congress to the point average folks like me have almost no say (we would have none at all if it weren’t for Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe and Barbara Boxer).
Quick question: what cable system has the largest spectrum in the Western Hemisphere?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:17 am | Permalink
Like I keep sayin’ the CONS here dont hate public spending, as long as it fuels THEIR paranoia.
=============================================================
And now the Tin Foil Hats come out to sing!
hee hee heeeeeee
Funny stuff. JR hasnt posted for hours, but when shown the LUNACY of his posts, maxy has to go back to the old standard.
Beat up on JR. Because, um, yeah. JR is the problem with America…
Ya just cant make this funny stuff UP!
a safe legal investment wise woman.
Praise a liberal for this and deamonize the conservatives. Hmmmm.
Tom,
The would be a good start for the 1st hundred days. Upcoming…
Senate and congress; no term limits but…
$4000 per year. No more, no less.
No health care package
No retirement
Meet twice a year for 2 months. Straight. Period. No holidays, no breaks. Get some work done.
No lobbyists. Accepting money in any form from lobbyists is a federal offense and will result in immediate expulsion.
Take our congress back. Get people in there that want to work for their constituents and their constituents alone. All others? You know where the door is.
” he’ll be btiching every day ”
He already does Max. It is interesting the way libs think. There is NEVER a fault or a blame which originates from a democrat. No policy from those benches on the left has EVER failed.
Just like today. The evil REPUBLICAN’s are bailing out the rich people and banks. The evil REPUBLICAN’s are creating a socialist state.
But in nearly two hundred posts – not one post or even mention of democrat wrongdoing, originating from a democrat.
Case is closed. Like their minds.
Pelosi linked AIG bailout directly to the November election and slammed Republican presidential candidate John McCain, not for the AIG bailout, but for his economic beliefs which, she charged, had led to the Wall Street crisis.
————————————————-
It’s kinda like your 17 year old kid taking the keys to the car, with a hundred dollar bill in the glovebox and a cooler full of beer in the trunk.
And then listen to him whine the next day how it was YOUR fault he got a DUI……
#
mrcontroversy
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:20 am | Permalink
Quick question: what cable system has the largest spectrum in the Western Hemisphere?
———————-
The Wichita Coat Hanger Antennae Service? :D
heheheheh. Funny stuff.
“When you can’t come up with reasons, go with distractions.”
I’m quoting YOU, maxy!
It’s the blog equivalent of cons crying “Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!”
the cons here say “JR! JR!”
nitwits
“No lobbyists. Accepting money ”
Which is it? Citizens can lobby congress.
Citizens can form groups and lobby congress together.
Accepting money does not equal a lobby.
mrcontroversy
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:20 am | Permalink
Gentle people…
I’m not going to say, “gimme, gimme, gimme”.
All I want is to be able to compete on a level playing field, and I will make my own way.
====================================================================
Level Playing Fields are in Fantasy Land. Did someone tell you life was fair? That the world owes you something the very moment you are born? (Though you have no right to be born.)
If you work hard, play by the rules, you MIGHT succeed. And if you do, the Government will penalize you heavily for your success.
If you don’t work hard, or if you fail, then the Government hand-outs are already there for you.
…and now from the Dept. of “seeing only what you want to see”…
I have bitched endlessly about the democrats and called for both pelosi and reid to give up the ghost.
How conveeeeeeenient for you to forget that.
And see? If we really HAD term limits, both of them would be gone. Along with Teddy. et al.
But… you’d have to give up some of YOUR career pols, like TIAHRT, and ROBERTS, and well… we simply couldnt have that, now could we?
nitwits
As usual, multi-nicked Regular, the only point you receive is on top of your head.
Any INTELLIGENT takers?
Hey Max, how much of the flood largess in Iowa did you and YOURS collect from the government?
Or did you send the relief checks back? Why cant your local community take care of itself without asking for a handout from the feds?
Where did you send the check back?
I have bitched endlessly about the democrats and called for both pelosi and reid to give up the ghost.
————————————
Robert KKK Byrd anyone?
You are a rare breed on this blog farmgirl. Boxlock and Raptor tried to start a conversation hours ago about how the financial crises – and blamed both sides.
Instead of discussion we get “cons” “Neocons” “repukes” and Jesus wept. Finger pointing and blaming republicans for all the woes in life.
Not crying, I can dish it out just as much as anyone. And have given up and joined in. The water is fine.
But would be nice to have a discussion on this issue in a bipartisan sort of way.
Hell, the day all of us agree that Congress is responsible (as a whole) will be the end of this blog.
have bitched endlessly about the democrats and called for both pelosi and reid to give up the ghost.
Indeed. We could produce multiple posts over the years wheerin you, I, Jay, CapnAmerica and numerous others on this forum have attacked Democrats in sharp terms. In fact, it’s been openly acknowledged (for anyone who isn’t ignoring inconvenient facts) that Bill Clinton enabled much of the idiocy of the Republican Congress, and has several “kept” corporate Democrats over the years.
The point you folks seem desperately want to evade is that the meltdown we’re witnessing is the natural and predictable result of hyper-deregulated supply-side economics when the final Democratic obstructions to it were removed from its implementation.
“as” has. . .
Well said, Rage.
Now, I’m not for a nanny state, but how about, say, a bar bouncer state–government should kick back and let everybody party peacefully, but at the first sign of trouble, rush in and bust heads?
Looks like the dems are trying to inject a little common sense into the bailout, take an equity position, have some independent oversight in the giveaway.
Another article said mitibushi bank is going to take a 20% position in morgan.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/pl_nm/financial_bailout_congress_dc_3
Actually, “ksfarmgrrl” –
I suspect your average nit is wittier than the CONs in this forum.
Mccain was a deregulator before he was a re-regulator!
Hell, the day all of us agree that Congress is responsible (as a whole) will be the end of this blog.
———————————-
Congressional approval rating 19%
GWB- 32%
Really not looking to good for the dumocrats right now…..
Gee, ya think the repukes, in the spirit of nonpartisanship, will agree to THIS?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/ts_nm/financial_bailout_congress_dc
I’m betting no… But if they did, we could move on down the road. But I’m betting there is one deal killer for them.
“Oversight? We dont need no stinkin’ oversight”!
Two words. Unitary Executive. Two more words?
Dick Cheney
There should be limits to how much a lobbyist can contribute, if there isn’t already, no relatives should be able to lobby, and no former office holders, so they can call in favors, or use friendships.
Hell Mr. C, maybe just the existence of a bar bouncer would PREVENT trouble.
Right now, the hen house door is wide open and unguarded. The fox isnt even working up a sweat…
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:43 am | Permalink
Gee, ya think the repukes, in the spirit of nonpartisanship, will agree to THIS?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/ts_nm/financial_bailout_congress_dc
I’m betting no… But if they did, we could move on down the road. But I’m betting there is one deal killer for them.
“Oversight? We dont need no stinkin’ oversight”!
Two words. Unitary Executive. Two more words?
Dick Cheney
————————————————-
Here’s two more words for this one.
TONS OF PORK.
And mcsame wants to PROP the hen house door open with more deregulation.
Because, of course, the folly of deregulation can only be cured with MORE deregulation….
Chicken wire anyone?
One thing that been mentioned is the responsibilities of the international community, seeing how these companies are international beasts in an international economy. Other countries may not be too whoopie about cleaning up our mess, but it’s their mess too–and they have a serious stake in avoiding a worldwide depression.
Iraq? Never mind. Keep America from imploding.
I suspected biased couldnt count. That’s THREE words.
nitwit
Phantom
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:44 am | Permalink
There should be limits to how much a lobbyist can contribute, if there isn’t already, no relatives should be able to lobby, and no former office holders, so they can call in favors, or use friendships.
————————————–
So in your opinion Biden is “out?”
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:45 am | Permalink
Hell Mr. C, maybe just the existence of a bar bouncer would PREVENT trouble.
Right now, the hen house door is wide open and unguarded. The fox isnt even working up a sweat…
——————–
That’s where the big mo-fonking Rooster comes in handy.
Since you have a dog and I assume it’s not an egg-sucking dog, you can use it to guard the hen house. :D
Biden’s son, Roberts son, and I’m sure numerous others should all have to get honest jobs.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:46 am | Permalink
And mcsame wants to PROP the hen house door open with more deregulation.
Because, of course, the folly of deregulation can only be cured with MORE deregulation….
Chicken wire anyone?
———————————————-
Please nancy, please, save us from………
ourselves………….
wahhhhhhhh.
If they bail out foreign banks, the govt. should get an equity position equal to the amount of bail out.
Oversight, combined with a firn no on being above the judicial and legislative branch review may be the real deal killer. They want to pass out money like they did in Iraq.
Monkeyhawk
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:41 am | Permalink
Actually, “ksfarmgrrl” –
I suspect your average nit is wittier than the CONs in this forum.
—————————————–
hahahahaha!!!!!!! idiot libtards….
Fannie, freddie, AIG……ALL gave TONS and TONS of money to the DEMORATS!!!
so somehow you link that to “it’s the republicans fault!”
close your eyes and follow.
sheeple…
BAHHHHHH….
BAHHHHHH……
“is that the meltdown we’re witnessing is the natural and predictable result of hyper-deregulated supply-side economics when the final Democratic obstructions to it were removed from its implementation.”
Again, a veiled post blaming republicans. You see only what you want to see.
:
:
:
FOR instance, is nothing posted after this line of text?
Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, a Carter-era law that purported to prevent “redlining” – denying mortgages to black borrowers – by pressuring banks to make home loans in “low- and moderate-income neighborhoods.” Under the act, banks were to be graded on their attentiveness to the “credit needs” of “predominantly minority neighborhoods.”
“The Clinton Administration’s regulatory revisions with an effective starting date of January 31, 1995 were credited with substantially increasing the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans.”
:
:
And finally in 2003: “the Bush Administration recommended what the NY Times called “the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.” This change was to move governmental supervision of two of the primary agents guaranteeing subprime loans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under a new agency created within the Department of the Treasury.”
Nit. Wit.
” Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.
Mr. McCain, the Republican candidate for president, has recently begun campaigning as a critic of the two companies and the lobbying army that helped them evade greater regulation as they began buying riskier mortgages with implicit federal backing. He and his Democratic rival, Senator Barack Obama, have donors and advisers who are tied to the companies.
Incensed by the advertisements, several current and former executives of the companies came forward to discuss the role that Rick Davis, Mr. McCain’s campaign manager and longtime adviser, played in helping Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac beat back regulatory challenges when he served as president of their advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance, formed in the summer of 2000. Some who came forward were Democrats, but Republicans, speaking on the condition of anonymity, confirmed their descriptions. Read on…
Barack Obama and Joe Biden need to jump on this story and keep hammering away until the corporate media can no longer ignore it. The U.S. stands on the brink of the next Great Depression thanks to Bush/McCain deregulation policies and now we find out that the man who runs the McCain campaign was paid handsomely to lobby for these fatal policies on behalf of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, even as he repeatedly tries to tie Obama to those companies. Voters need to know how we got into this mess and who is responsible. It was John McCain, his elite lobbyist cronies and the Republican party. I agree with John:
There should be a campaign to demand that McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis, give ever penny back to the American people. There had better be an ad about this out by COB Monday, and calls for Davis’ resignation.
The McCain campaign thinks we’re a nation full of whiners and cowards who should just STFU, take a second or third job and cancel our vacations and be thankful for what we’re fed. The lack of respect is stunning — is this the kind of leader you want?”
Someone needs a nap….
I think it is interesting that the international community is not rushing to follow the Fed’s lead. Germany and Japan have already said they see no reason why their central banks should buy up anyone’s bad debt. They are skeptical that 700bil is enough and they are most sure that even it is, we can’t even pay that. The dollar will continue to devalue, and that won’t please our Asian and Middle East creditors who hold trillions of our green backs.
Barack Obama:
“This is what happens when you confuse the free market with a free license to let special interests take whatever they can get, however they can get it. This is what happens when you see seven years of incomes falling for the average worker while Wall Street is booming…Americans have always pursued our dreams within a free market that has been the engine of our progress. It’s a market that has created a prosperity that is the envy of the world, and rewarded the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon of science, and technology, and discovery. But the American economy has worked in large part because we have guided the market’s invisible hand with a higher principle-that America prospers when all Americans can prosper. That is why we have put in place rules of the road to make competition fair, and open, and honest.”
Can I hear an Amen, brothers and sisters?
Blank post:
One of the first subprime lenders to stick it to borrowers and have her bank seized is a woman named Penny Pritzker, who just happens to be Barack Obama’s campaign Finance Chair (as confirmed on April 3, 2008) and a potential Secretary of the Treasury in an Obama administration.
And I got this from Crooks and Liars too, that famous LIBERAL rag. I think the comments about how the “democrats” will handle this are oh too right on target.
“Lawmakers React To Bailout
By: Nicole Belle @ 6:45 AM – PDT
Man, I wish I knew which Democratic lawmaker said this:
We may strip out all the gives to industry in the predatory mortgage lending bill that the House passed last November, which hasn’t budged in the Senate, and include that in the bill. There are other ideas on the table but they are going to be tough to work out before next week.
I also find myself drawn to provisions that would serve no useful purpose except to insult the industry, like requiring the CEOs, CFOs and the chair of the board of any entity that sells mortgage related securities to the Treasury Department to certify that they have completed an approved course in credit counseling. That is now required of consumers filing bankruptcy to make sure they feel properly humiliated for being head over heels in debt, although most lost control of their finances because of a serious illness in the family. That would just be petty and childish, and completely in character for me.
I’m open to other ideas, and I am looking for volunteers who want to hold the sons of bitches so I can beat the crap out of them.
Unfortunately, that kind of anger and cojones are few and far between in DC, and another lawmaker outlines how he sees it going:
Here’s the industry’s play: progressives will approach Nancy with ideas for reform, and she’ll agree to push for their proposals, and she’ll really mean it. Then industry lobbyists will go to Dennis Moore, Melissa Bean and a few other Democrats, and tell them how dire the consequences of the proposals would be, and that the members who understand how the economy works need to step up to stop Nancy and the crazy liberals from doing something rash. Then those Democrats will go to Steny and tell him how terrible Nancy’s crazy ideas would be, and how we can’t rush into something like that without much, much more thought. [..] The only way, our leadership will conclude, to get anything at all passed is to include nothing more than the inconsequential proposals that the lobbyists agreed to. Then we’ll all go along because it would be wildly irresponsible not to act when we’re staring over the brink of a complete collapse of world financial markets.
I’d diagram it for you if I had a chalkboard. I’ve seen the play again and again, and it always goes for long yardage.
The only defense for the play is for a significant group of Democrats to say they won’t vote for any proposal that isn’t unpalatable to industry, and mean it. It’s a pretty high stakes game of chicken, but otherwise we come out of this with nothing but a $700 billion giveaway to a crooked industry.
Pathetic. Gutless. Bad for America. But watch it happen. If you haven’t already, please take a few minutes to contact your representatives to tell them not to give President Paulson a blank check.”
Yeah, like letting your congress critters know how you feel will do SO much good…
Barack Obama:
“If you think the fundamentals are sound, I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you,” and “The old boy network? In the McCain campaign, that’s called a staff meeting.”
The man can take some swings. ‘Bout time…
“American_Way” lies –
“…Boxlock and Raptor tried to start a conversation hours ago about how the financial crises – and blamed both sides.”
And — also hours ago — I suggest we discuss the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.
Shortly thereafter, “biased1″ snarked at “ksfarmcarpetmunchergrrl” and 7th Grade-worthy sneers like “libtard.”
So come on, share your views on how the CFMA has affected the current financial crisis.
Just air here:
“A review of Federal Election Commission records back to 1989 reveals Obama in his three complete years in the Senate is the second largest recipient of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae campaign contributions, behind only Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., the powerful chairman of the Senate banking committee. Dodd was first elected to the Senate in 1980.
According to OpenSecrets.com, from 1989 to 2008, Dodd received $165,400 in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac campaign contributions, including contributions from PACs and individuals, followed by Obama, who received $126,349 in such contributions since being elected to the Senate in 2004.
In contrast, McCain warned of the coming mortgage crisis as he pressed in 2005 for regulatory reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”
Paulson is a former Goldman Sachs CEO, one of those “smartest guys in the room”. Why didn’t he see this thing coming months ago?. He’s in reaction mode, just like everyone else.
MonkeyHawk, I keep thinking Mommy will come home soon and unplug the computer…
Until then? Two words (sic) Ignore. Ignore. Ignore.
Sorry Monkey, I didn’t see your post. Looking back I know why. You posted a one liner and said GO READ THIS POST.
I avoid those tactics as it reminds me of spam.
Did you post your opinion and position on the subject somewhere? I might respond to that.
CFMA? How about Wendy Gramm?
http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/whos-whining-now/
’cause ya know, they wont have the guts to click…
cons you have been screwed, bend over and kiss your own arse that’s the best your gonna get.
And Monkey: Why did you tie me and post withe comments posted by someone ELSE (outside of the subject)?
Surely you know I don’t control the posting logic here.
annie, do you have any opinions on the issue or words of wisdom to post?
Or just like adding to the scroll over. Makes my finger tired.
Koolaide – Blame the current financial crisis on NOT ENOUGH regulation.
Go ahead, get more regulation, but be careful what you ask for.
That fact is, the financial industry has been pressured by Government for years to issue loans to people who don’t qualify, with the policy position being – Everyone in America should own their own home.
Years later, we have defaults skyrocketing on mortgages. Surprise!
The Government got exactly what it demaned of Fannie & Freddie. Loose purse strings, and bad loans.
And the Dems want MORE of the SAME regulation that got us to where we are today.
Normally don’t watch Cramer, but he is right-on here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26754253#26754253
I have reached the conclusion that just as the prisons are filled with people of lower intellectual abilities that choose crime as a means of competing in civilized society, so too is the DimLib Party filled with intellectual and moral cripples that want to steal from others with the force of government. They are simply functionally and intellectually incompetent to compete on their own.
And no Farmie, I did not receive one dime of flood disaster money going to Iowa.
And why should I?
BTW, the current Dem Congress went on vacation before funding the Midwest’s Flood Disaster aid. Still not approved today.
The Dem Congress Doesn’t Care!
Worst Congress Ever.
MoneylessHawk and ksfarmgrrlmuncher,
please read American Way 12:04
I posted similar friday, you just keep ignoring the facts…..
Bahhhhhhhhh..
Bahhhhhhhh……
“The Clinton Administration’s regulatory revisions with an effective starting date of January 31, 1995 were credited with substantially increasing the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans.”
=========================================
AmWay — What happened to Newt and the NeoCon takeover??? Why didnt they reverse the Clinton revisions, since they had all of that power, until January, 2007???
Hmmmm???
“That fact is, the financial industry has been pressured by Government for years to issue loans to people who don’t qualify, with the policy position being – Everyone in America should own their own home.”
Ah yes. The OWNERSHIP society as touted by bushco.
How quickly you forget…
The CRA isnt to blame.
Can you say “mcmansions”?
And I’m a bettin’ that it wasnt “po’ fo’ks” (translation: brown or black skinned folks) who got those low doc loans that made the finanical institutions prosper.
Those same low doc loans that now require president paulson to nationalize the industry and GIVE AWAY more than 700 BILLION dollars of MY tax money to bail them out.
Woof. Stupid is as stupid does.
But we are amused, and we do encourage you to try again.
hahaha Amway,
I’ve been adding my insight for years. Made a bundle on it too. If you think I’m for the bailout guess again.
Let’s see oil up 12+
Gold up 42+
Dow off 200+
Writings been on the wall since 2004 sorry you didn’t read it
Prison are filled with non-violent drug offenders. And we’re “bailing out” the real criminals. The REAL criminals are in Washington, they not only let 9-11 happen and killed 3000 people, they orchestrated it. And no matter how much you lover’s of science (that ignore science when it’s inconvenient) “debunk” it, 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB to help facilitate everything you see going on now. This is it, this is the big move and you militant party-liner’s are so blinded by your own righteousness and feigned idignation, that you don’t even see it. Oh well, in any case, Travis Barker from Blink-182 got burned.
More non-sensical BS from Farmie.
Boxlock, your 12:13 post is proven true every day on the WE Blog.
“More non-sensical BS from Farmie.”
Yeah- she shouldn’t infringe on your territory, huh!
You needn’t worry; you have a lock on that title.
60% of sub-prime foreclosures came from RE-financing existing loans.
The whole topsy-turvy illogic of this financial crisis comes from the quaint old idea that if someone is going to lend me money, I kinda get the idea they’re pretty confident they can get it paid back.
Turns out, that was no concern to lenders after the CFMA. Didn’t matter. Lenders collected commissions and sold and re-sold the paper based on the pipe dream (which they promulgated) that real estate would always increase in value.
Ponzi Scheme, a House of Cards, blind obsequious faith in the Church of St. Reagan that deregulation and unmonitored capitalism would somehow result in an “Ownership Society…?”
And, yeah. There were plenty of Democrats who got sucked in. If it’s the only game in hand, it’s tempting to join it.
When I was in college I wrote a paper about the Tulip Bulb Frenzy in 17th Century Holland.
P.T. Barnum was right about nearly everything; only his timing was wrong.
It’s way more often than “every minute.” And this time the biggest suckers turn out to be Wall Street CEOs who think they can leverage their sucker-ness into taxpayer-financed golden parachutes.
And nothing can stop ‘em. Thanks to CFMA, there are no regulations that have been broken. Except for a few of the 10 Commandments.
CONservative “values,” indeed.
Please explain how dems. have applied pressure on brokers and the investment bank model (former) industry to make any type of loans? The regular bank model is still the healthy one, however their exposure to the investment bank junk mortgages may change that.
Funny how several like to point to Dems with financial conflicts of interest. That’s nice. It would be better if you showed how they had an active role in creating this crisis.
But of course, that would involve acknowledging the argument that’s in front of your face, in spite of your repeated attempts to recast it as partisan finger-pointing.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/open-thread-922-2/#comment-429741
Assuming a thirty-one-year-old law contributed in some small way to the current debacle (how? and why it did it take so long?), but that conveniently ignores the intervening 29 years.
Perhaps it’s a honest attempt to understand what happened, but it looks like lame misdirection to me.
What an amazing load of nonsensical, rabid partisan-ship divorced from the issues of the day.
Did everybody but me have a lousy weekend?
MaxGrobnik
Posted September 22, 2008 at 11:04 am | Permalink
Remember AmWay,
Kerry’s wife, Theresa Hinz had over $500 Million in tax-free municipal bonds.
Dang rich pathetic Democrats, she earned $40 Million/year in interest income and paid ZERO tax on that!
Those Municipal Utilities bonds should be taxable! Course then the Municipal Utilities would have to pay higher interest on their bonds, if they were taxable.
And that would mean higher energy rates for the poor! Gasp!!!!
=========================================
Aint this just priceless… Go back 4 years, and bash on Kerry’s Wife (who got her MILLIONS from her deceased, REPUBLICAN husband’s estte) — and that’s OK….
But to take on sweet Cindy’s $$$$$ —- Oh, the Democrats should be ashamed of picking on sweet Cindy’s Millions….
Ya cnt make this stuff up!!! LOL And just think, Theresa got HERS from being married to a REPUBLICAN congress man!!!!
A REPUBLICAN even!!
“intellectual and moral cripples that want to steal from others”
That sounds like a good description of the CEOs of all these financial companies who are feeding at the public trough.
One correction missed–oh well. . .
Friendly Reminder:
There has been no Tiahrt Amendment Topic posted since August 10, 2008.
Really Brownlee, it’s been over a month and it’s high time you post another attack on the Tiahrt Amendment, which is really an attack on the 2nd Amendment.
What?
You don’t want to bring up 2nd Amendment issues so close to the Presidential election?
I wonder why not. Hmmm………
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/08/tiahrt-amendment%E2%80%99s-days-numbered/#comment-399134
Say Chas, is your brother Goober a real pastor?
My current opinions and thoughts:
From what is available on the various media forms for review, this bailout is not going to resolve the crisis in total; there is much too much power being sought for the Secretary of the Treasury, be it Mr. Poulson or his successor; the idea of no review, administrative or legal, is to me a non-starter; and the idea of including non-real estate mortgage assets in the stuff to be bought suggests that there are greater structural problems with the banks, etc., than what is being talked about. One major issue not, to my mind, being discussed enough, if at all, is how to make a proper valuation of the assets the purchase of which is contemplated. If, indeed, the market would value the same at, e.g., 10 cents on the dollar, that should be the purchase price therefor.
Some opinions: the government needs to receive equity in the institutions being bailed out, as a condition of the deal (with the equity stake being transferred back once the assets purchased are totally liquidated). There needs to be oversight by Congress on the actions of the Department of the Treasury; as the investor of last resort, in addition to the government holding a (temporary) equity position, the Congress should have the authority to limit executive compensation for those firms receiving aid, together with the power to prohibit dividends, stock buy backs, etc., until the purchased assets are totally liquidated; and, should there be profit arising to these institutions as the result of the sale of the so-called “toxic assets”, there should be a recapture mechanism so that the Treasury receives repayment of some of the funds paid. In other words, Congress needs to have the same authority over the running of these businesses as venture capital investors often seek and receive.
It seems to me that there is little bargaining power on the part of the banks, et al, at this point in time.
Finally, to the extent there exists “bad loans” regardless of the source, it seems an examination of the terms thereof should be authorized, such as has been proposed for Bankruptcy judges, to see whether the terms might be altered (please note, I’m not calling for voiding the contracts) to make the same more likely to be paid by the debtor, which would relieve to some extent the losses otherwise realized by the lender, and might make the same profitable, albeit to a lesser degree than what was originally anticipated.
Ahh as I return to my stimulating liberal day, I leave you cons with this bit of scrollover
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/
Today’s most noteworthy MSM piece is this Bloomberg article, titled. Dollar May Get `Crushed’ as Traders Weigh Up Bailout.
Excerpt:
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson’s plan to end the rout in U.S. financial markets may derail the dollar’s three-month rally as investors weigh the costs of the rescue.
The combination of spending $700 billion on soured mortgage-related assets and providing $400 billion to guarantee money-market mutual funds will boost U.S. borrowing as much as $1 trillion, according to Barclays Capital interest-rate strategist Michael Pond in New York. While the rescue may restore investor confidence to battered financial markets, traders will again focus on the twin budget and current-account deficits and negative real U.S. interest rates.
“As we get to the other side of this, the dollar will get crushed,” said John Taylor, chairman of New York-based International Foreign Exchange Concepts Inc., the world’s biggest currency hedge-fund firm, which manages about $15 billion. . .
“The downdraft on the dollar from the hit to the balance sheet of the U.S. government will dwarf the short-term gains from solving the banking crisis,” said David Woo, London-based global head of foreign-exchange strategy at Barclays, the third- biggest currency trader, according to a 2008 survey by Euromoney Institutional Investor Plc.
Warning: Your currency may be smaller than it appears in the mirror . . .
Well said Counselor.
Oh Max — You are always bitching about the “haves” giving to the “have nots”…
So where is your BITCH now, about the “Haves” of big government (REPUBLICAN PAULSON) giving to the “new” breed of “have nots”(the WALL STREET JACKALS)???
Hmmm Maxie??? Where is your outrage, that the Government has taken over PRIVATE BUSINESS like good little Nazi’s???
What an amazing load of nonsensical, rabid partisan-ship divorced from the issues of the day.
Actually, David, if you look closely, you’ll see some people actually talking about what happened. If it seems partisan, it’s because a lot of us saw this coming 20 years ago.
MaxGrobnik
Posted September 22, 2008 at 12:56 pm | Permalink
Say Chas, is your brother Goober a real pastor?
================================================
Thats typical Max… when you got no rebuttal, just take off on one of your normal, STUPID trolling expeditions…. Show us what you got, Imbecile!!! LOL
Rebuttal to what Chas?
Your 12:52 POS?
This bailout is not being done to save the big financial guys.
It’s being done to protect the economy (?) and the pensions and savings of everyone.
Many retirement programs, including the leftest liberals retirements are wrapped up in this deal.
This is borrowing against our futures and our children’s futures for the present…..again.
Wheel barrels of cash for milk. Get used to the idea. The “Republicons” and “Libtards”, all.
This is real life, get over your false paradigm. Please. I want to be free, but in order for that to happen, you have to want to as well. This isn’t left or right, it never has been. It’s been a game, ran on all of us, the bread and circuses thing.
Oh I luvs to eat dems micies,
Dem micies I luvs to eats,
I bites dey lil’ haids off and nibble dey tiny feets
- Rogue Kat
As for your 1:00 POS lie Chas, when have I ever supported the bailouts?
Find a post.
Make my day.
You are so full of hate, you are completely non-sensical. YOU’RE LOSING IT CHAS! PRETTY SOON YOU’LL BE FULL OF TIPOS AND TIPIN IN ALL CAPS!!!!
May God have mercy on your soul.
The Wall Street bailout sounds like Grover Norquist’s wet dream.
Suck up $700 billion of your children’s and grandchildren’s future earnings and government will drown in the bathtub.
Just bail out the paper-traders and coupon-clippers first.
Social Security privatization was their first attempt to socialize Wall Street. This is Plan B. While most Americans generally believe “Honesty is the best policy,” the Republic Party has opted for the 2nd-best policy.
This is turning into this year’s “October Surprise.”
“This is borrowing against our futures and our children’s futures for the present…..again.”
Something Republics excel at.
“The Roaring Twenties”…easy credit. 1929.
much the same now.
I say ZERO bailouts.
The Depression is coming sooner or later. Bring it on now and let’s get it over with. All the Socialists who think you can trust Government, will get a real big surprise.
Those who have no skills and no ability to work, will survive.
Those who don’t, will find a way to survive just like they did in the last Depression. And nobody starved in the last Depression, nobody will be starved this time around either. But you will not be fat, either.
Those who have skills and the ability to work, will survive.
Doesn’t Obama support the bailout?
Or did he CHANGE his mind again today?
Max tell us about the ‘ownership society’ like in the good ol’ days.
Boxlock,
I agree with you final observation at 1:10 p.m. As to the rest; the pensions, retirements, etc., are seemingly secondary to me in the proposal; otherwise why buy the assets as opposed to taking the same dollars and shoring up pension plans, for example. If there are indeed $1.4 quadrillion in derivatives in the world economy, as I recall reading somewhere last week, $700 billion is a mere drop in the bucket towards salvaging the same, which (salvaging), I argue, would be needed to fully ameliorate the effects on retirement savings, pensions, etc. Even when one adds the roughly $500 billion announced last week to aid money market funds, the total of $1.2 billion pales by comparison to that figure.
To some extent, this does smell like helping out the big players on Wall Street for their taking outrageous risk in becoming involved in the derivatives; allows them to unload the assets underlying the same with a penalty, to be sure, but not the same penalty as would have been imposed by the market functioning rationally. Of course, one may make the argument that these derivatives would not have been created at all in a rational market, but that’s a discussion for another thread at another time.
“MaxGrobnik” claims –
“…The Depression is coming sooner or later. Bring it on…!”
…and…
“…nobody starved in the last Depression.”
George Santayana, where are you when we need you?
Max, the DUMBER, posts >>>>
“The Depression is coming sooner or later. Bring it on now and let’s get it over with. All the Socialists who think you can trust Government, will get a real big surprise.”
MAX — Idiot!!! You really dont know the definition of Socialist, do you??? What the hell do you think it means when Government takes over Businesses…. (call it bailout if you want) But, they TOOK OVER Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac…. AND, they OWN 80% of AIG after paying them big bucks to stay afloat….
Max, you imbecile, THAT IS SOCIALISM!!!
We have two Great Candidates for President!
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSN2047912020080920
MCCAIN:
“I’ve spoken with (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson and look forward to reviewing the full administration proposal, as well as any modifications that might emerge in congressional negotiations. As part of that process, I encourage all parties to consider both the principles and the proposals that I laid out on Friday in my Mortgage and Financial Institutions (MFI) trust plan — an approach that would proactively resolve troubled financial institutions, enforce discipline on management and shareholders, and minimize the burden on the taxpayer.”
OBAMA:
“(Obama) supports the effort of Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman (Ben) Bernanke to work in a bipartisan spirit with the congressional leadership to find a systemic solution to our deepening crisis,” said spokeswoman Jen Psaki. “Senator Obama has received the Treasury’s proposed legislative language and is reviewing it. He will be working with the administration and Congress to make sure that the plan meets the principles he set out including making sure it is part of an overall plan not just for Wall Street but for main street, that it protects taxpayers to the fullest extent possible; and that it helps homeowners stay in their homes.”
American International Group Inc’s (AIG.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) former Chief Executive Robert Willumstad has rejected a $22 million severance payment, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing a person familiar with the decision.
How charitable of him.
He made $17,000.00 an hour, it’s the least he could do.
Also, no one starved last depression…cause we were an AGRARIAN society, now we have a bunch of know-it-all fools that will have no clue how to help themselves…other that helping themselves, ie stealing.
Very good Chas at 1:26.
And your point is?
Over oppressive government.
Taxation without representation.
Over taxation.
Seems to me the last time this happened, America threw a little ‘tea party’ to let government know in which orifice they could ram it in.
Seems to me it is about time for another tea party. Get this foreign government out of our country. This government couldn’t be father than the founding fathers intended. This is indeed the government our forefathers fought and died to eradicate from this fledgling nation. Time to do it again.
Even Biden might think this is Patriotic:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Pelosi and Reid- Dumocratic leaders.
Time for Comprehensive Energy Policy to insure the American way of life and move us towards energy independence. = 2+years and counting
Time for seizing Corporate Americas $700 billion bad debt with tax payers dollars = 2 days.
I guess they can move when they WANT to.
Thanks dumborats.
Seems to me these unregulated financial institution have set up an almost shadow banking system, and now there shenanigans have come to light, by threatening the mainstay institutions, we will all have to pay for their excesses. I’d extend this to the credit card companies, after all what’s the difference between printing money and extending credit,and transactions where none would have existed before said creation.
Max, this is the Socialism that you are so AFRAID of, and that you attack the Democrats for plotting against you… and now its your Republican Capitalists who have done this $700 BILLION takeover!! And that $700 BILLION is on top of the Lehman Bros, and AIG, and Freddie/Fannie debacles….
What next?? Better watch out, Max… Your RIGHT WING REPUBLICAN SOCIALISTS might be coming for your guns next!! Be afraid Maxie… be very afraid!!
Alot can be accomplished when the obstructionist repubs. don’t stand in the way.
Can’t wait until they become an insignificant minority.
Max doesn’t consider it socialism unless the money is spent on the masses, if it’s spent on the elite, is republicanism.
Dirty Dems:
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/22/warrant-served-on-residence-of-college-student-in-palin-e-mail-hack/
The FBI has served a search warrant against a 20-year-old college student in connection with the hacking of Sarah Palin’s personal e-mail account.
A witness told WBIR-TV that FBI agents served the warrant at the college residence of David Kernell, a student at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville. Kernell is the son of Mike Kernell, a Democratic state representative from Memphis.
Intrigued, Sol.
Do half the people on this blog really REALIZE what is happening to us?
I lobbied on insurance issues in the 80s, and watched firsthand as we lost our insurance industry to the British, the Dutch and the Germans. They–not the Republicans–are behind the push for “tort reform” because they don’t like the unpredictability of the jury system.
Now… Merrill is considering letting CIC–a hedge fund owned by the Chinese GOVERNMENT–take up to a 49 percent stake.
Communist China… on Wall Street! Is anybody noticing?
Already, Arab states own a significant stake in Citibank.
First the insurance industry–now the banking industry.
Where is our sovereignty? What will happen to our rights?
Does anybody care?
Phantom and Chas BOTH keep building a strawman and tearing it down.
I have not supported the Government Bailout!!!!!
Yes, the bailout IS Socialism! Congratulations to both of you for figuring this out!
Say Chas you Dumb Fcking Iodit,
THE BAILOUT YOU SUPPORTED IS SOCIALISM!!@!!!!
mrcontroversy, you blame this all on the Repbulicans, don’t you.
The Democrats are lily white lambs.
Heh, Mr. C. Communist China on Wall Street and the Arabs own significant stake in Citibank. Kinda puts president paulson’s need to bail out foreign companies in perspective.
When these high commodity prices crash, I wonder who will be buying up American farmland?
It’s the eighties.
Again.
Note that both McCain & Obama are going to ultimately vote for this $700 Billion bailout.
Unless Obama votes “present”.
Thinking out loud again…
What if the $700 billion would be used for a straight capital infusion into the banks on a first come, first served basis, without the purchase of the “toxic assets”? In return, the government receives an equity position in the institutions. Seems to me that would ease the capital “crunch” without shifting the risk of loss therefrom from the shareholders to the taxpayers.
Probably wouldn’t fly, but it seems to me that the government wouldn’t be any worse off, and could get some of the money back by selling the stock on the market after the same stabilized in the financial sector, without the breathtaking attempt to shift power to the Secretary of the Treasury from the Congress, as appears in what I understand to be the draft of the plan that was being circulated earlier.
I thought you Libs loved the Commies and the Arabs?
What are you RACISTS now?
“Can’t wait until they become an insignificant minority”
Perhaps, in a kind of cosmic and karmic backhand to the rovester, they will become a PERMANENT insignifican minority!
Karma, she’s a biotch.
It’s the eighties.
Again.
========
Don’t tell me Poison and Skid Row are making a come back?
Where in that post did I say I was blaming the Republicans, Max?
Trust me. I know from personal experience…you can’t go by party labels once you get inside the beltway.
And, if you had looked at one of my earlier posts, I mentioned four U.S. Senators who have helped my cause a great deal. What are their party affiliations?
Oops, I forgot. That would require thinking. Wouldn’t want to give you a headache or anything.
How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis
Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) — The financial crisis of the past year has provided a number of surprising twists and turns, and from Bear Stearns Cos. to American International Group Inc., ambiguity has been a big part of the story.
Why did Bear Stearns fail, and how does that relate to AIG? It all seems so complex.
But really, it isn’t. Enough cards on this table have been turned over that the story is now clear. The economic history books will describe this episode in simple and understandable terms: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac exploded, and many bystanders were injured in the blast, some fatally.
Fannie and Freddie did this by becoming a key enabler of the mortgage crisis. They fueled Wall Street’s efforts to securitize subprime loans by becoming the primary customer of all AAA-rated subprime-mortgage pools. In addition, they held an enormous portfolio of mortgages themselves.
In the times that Fannie and Freddie couldn’t make the market, they became the market. Over the years, it added up to an enormous obligation. As of last June, Fannie alone owned or guaranteed more than $388 billion in high-risk mortgage investments. Their large presence created an environment within which even mortgage-backed securities assembled by others could find a ready home.
The problem was that the trillions of dollars in play were only low-risk investments if real estate prices continued to rise. Once they began to fall, the entire house of cards came down with them.
Turning Point
Take away Fannie and Freddie, or regulate them more wisely, and it’s hard to imagine how these highly liquid markets would ever have emerged. This whole mess would never have happened.
It is easy to identify the historical turning point that marked the beginning of the end.
Back in 2005, Fannie and Freddie were, after years of dominating Washington, on the ropes. They were enmeshed in accounting scandals that led to turnover at the top. At one telling moment in late 2004, captured in an article by my American Enterprise Institute colleague Peter Wallison, the Securities and Exchange Comiission’s chief accountant told disgraced Fannie Mae chief Franklin Raines that Fannie’s position on the relevant accounting issue was not even “on the page” of allowable interpretations.
Then legislative momentum emerged for an attempt to create a “world-class regulator” that would oversee the pair more like banks, imposing strict requirements on their ability to take excessive risks. Politicians who previously had associated themselves proudly with the two accounting miscreants were less eager to be associated with them. The time was ripe.
Greenspan’s Warning
The clear gravity of the situation pushed the legislation forward. Some might say the current mess couldn’t be foreseen, yet in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie “continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,” he said. “We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.”
What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets.
Different World
If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. In 2005, 2006 and 2007, a blizzard of terrible mortgage paper fluttered out of the Fannie and Freddie clouds, burying many of our oldest and most venerable institutions. Without their checkbooks keeping the market liquid and buying up excess supply, the market would likely have not existed.
But the bill didn’t become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn’t even get the Senate to vote on the matter.
That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then. Wallison wrote at the time: “It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.”
Mounds of Materials
Now that the collapse has occurred, the roadblock built by Senate Democrats in 2005 is unforgivable. Many who opposed the bill doubtlessly did so for honorable reasons. Fannie and Freddie provided mounds of materials defending their practices. Perhaps some found their propaganda convincing.
But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years.
Throughout his political career, Obama has gotten more than $125,000 in campaign contributions from employees and political action committees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, second only to Dodd, the Senate Banking Committee chairman, who received more than $165,000.
Clinton, the 12th-ranked recipient of Fannie and Freddie PAC and employee contributions, has received more than $75,000 from the two enterprises and their employees. The private profit found its way back to the senators who killed the fix.
There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.
Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that’s worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.
(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)
To contact the writer of this column: Kevin Hassett at khassett@aei.org
VT, with all due respect, my cynical nature tells me this “bailout” has nothing to do with our pensions, 401k’s, and retirement funds. It has EVERYTHING to do with the moral hazard that tripped up the cronies of bushco.
That’s why the knee jerk, unitary executive grab for power, the not very well thought out bank rescues, the indemnity of foreign corporations, and the “plan” that ignores the very homeowners it uses as an excuse to implement this giant corporate welfare bonanza.
Just my opinion of course :)
ksfarmgrrlmuncher- Perhaps, in a kind of cosmic and karmic backhand to the rovester, they will become a PERMANENT insignifican minority!
————————————–
Oops!
There goes the tax base…..
Oil spikes $25 a barrel on anxiety over US bailout-
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93BUF080&show_article=1
When the SHTF, Chas will be cowering behind his bedroom door, holding his bayonet, praying like the devil that some of his neighbors with guns will come to save him.
ANTI – thanks for the update. I had been under the impression that the REPUBLICS controlled both Congress and the White House in 2005. I had not realized that the Democrats did.
Anti-
Thanks! (again) for the post 1:58
But you cannot argue with a libtard armed with facts.
You have to throw in an emotion or two or it just won’t sink in….
VT – more interesting comments. Looking over at the news it looks like the Democrats are moving in the same directions you are suggesting.
biased1 – it is interesting that you CONtards think Kerry is in the White House.
In spite of complete bi-partisan support for the $700 Billion bailout, the Leftists here keep blaming Republicans.
If there were any truth to that, DemoRats would be holding Congressional Investigations and not approving 10 cents for a bailout until the Investigation was over.
They ALL know they are ALL to blame. They all supported regulations to loosen the purse strings of the banks to make risky loans in order to get every American into a house, whether they could afford the payment or not.
kfg, of course it (the “bailout”) really has nothing to do with the pensions, etc. If it did, then the way the $700 Billion would be disbursed would be entirely different than what I understand to be the substance of the proposal.
I understand your cynicism, it is shared to a great degree by me regarding this bailout.
You have to throw in an emotion or two or it just won’t sink in….
======
Right on…..I FEEL screwed…and not in a good way…
Let em’ burn.
If I default, someone comes and takes my stuff…the same should hold true for these companies.
Max, the support is indeed apparently bipartisan. Hey, it’s an election year; the incumbents need to look like they’re doing something.
I would note that there is some apparent resistance to parts of the provisions contained in the draft proposal growing, again bipartisan to some degree; it seems that following the money to reelection will overcome at least some of it…
When foreigners own all the financial companies, they’ll own the Service Economy as well as manuf.
I saw an analogy – when a house is on fire and it threatens the neighbor hood priority one is putting out the fire – not finding the arsonist.
Anti- Right on…..I FEEL screwed…and not in a good way..
——————————————-
Give a libtard a chance to spend $700 billion?
Why do I think it’s going to cost us about $1.50 for every dollar distributed…..
$1.75 trillion.
It is interesting that the purse strings of the “banks” were loosened to make the risky loans according to Max, notwithstanding that the shadow banking system is the seeming greater beneficiary of the “bailout”. Seems I recall that the non-regulated shadow banks made at least fifty percent of the subprime loans, from the article I posted a link to last Friday; and it sure seems they’re likely to do OK, if the proposal goes through Congress in anything close to its current form.
Why do I think it’s going to cost us about $1.50 for every dollar distributed…..
=====
Because it will.
“Give a libtard a chance to spend $700 billion?”
The Bushies are CONtards.
biased1 and ANTI, that’s ($1.50 spent for each $1.00 distributed) is why I think the government should demand and receive an equity position; say a special class of preferred stock.
avtolle
Posted September 22, 2008 at 2:20 pm | Permalink
biased1 and ANTI, that’s ($1.50 spent for each $1.00 distributed) is why I think the government should demand and receive an equity position; say a special class of preferred stock
—————————————–
Owned by????
The Treasury, biased1, although I’ve a notion it ought to be owned by individual taxpayers. Don’t have time to figure out a good way to accomplish this now, so the Treasury would be my “stand in” for we the individuals.
I don’t like the ‘bailout” at all philosophically. Given that a “bailout” is a certainty, however, I’ve been offering thoughts and opinions as to how to minimize the economic damage potential to the taxpayers, recognizing that we’re collectively likely to get screwed. Just want to make it as least unpleasant as possible.
kaz0819: I read that the G7 Central Banks HAD set aside $250 billion should an offshore injection of capital be needed, but the feds haven’t asked for it yet. Fiscal posturing for home consumption gives way to realpolitik, and the Japanese and Germans are past masters at that art. The G7 will be there for America as much as it can, for if the US economy sneezes, the rest of the G7 catches pneumonia.
vt –
“Congress pushes back on bailout
Democrats want U.S. ownership stake in firms it helps. Industry wants plan to cover other kinds of debt.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/22/news/economy/bailout_proposal_Monday/index.htm?postversion=2008092215
The Senate Banking Committee will hold a hearing on the bailout proposal on Tuesday, while the House Financial Services Committee will do the same on Wednesday. Paulson and Bernanke are scheduled to testify at both hearings.
Eliminate the Federal Income Tax system and create a Federal Sales Tax.
Sol and Mr. C hit on an important point. Relying on the market alone to correct itself inevitably means that countries become irrelevant.
There is only profit. Period.
That’s no way to run any nation-state.
bth, thanks for the link. So, “troubled assets” rather than “troubled mortgage assets”, eh? More the reason for a quid pro quod on equity, it seems to me.
Own_Man, would you exempt basic foodstuffs and prescription medications from your Federal Sales Tax? I’ve given much thought over the years to a Federal Sales Tax replacing an Income Tax; but some of my ideas as to what should be subject thereto (e.g., sales of residences, new or used; stock and security sales) aren’t popularly shared by the proponents thereof with whom I’ve discussed this.
Yes, Rage, they have hit on a very important point; meant to make a similar observation earlier, and thank you for so doing.
What guns Max?? Your Right Wing Socialist Republicans are coming for all you guns!!
Looks like my bayonet will be a better choice!!
BTW, the only S gona hit da Fan is gonna be you NeoCon Right Wingers AFTER elections…
Anybody with half a brain can now plainly see where Right Wing logic leads us… straight to inernatiional bankruptcy!! Move over Reich Wingers… China is coming!! And they want all your money!!
And, oh, Max, WHY do you constantly assume that all Liberals earn under $250,000, and thus wont have any tax increases??? Has somebody poisoned your brain??? Or what???
Maybe the Republics figure they can simply repudiate the debt!
Move over Reich Wingers… China is coming!! And they want all your money!!
========
Do you think they will leave your money alone Chas?
Mary had a little lamb
Her father shot it dead.
Now it goes to school with her,
between two chunks of bread.
for those of you who have not read the bailout proposal…
sec. 8 is my personal favorite comrades
LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS
Section 1. Short Title.
This Act may be cited as ____________________.
Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.
(a) Authority to Purchase.–The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.
(b) Necessary Actions.–The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:
(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;
(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;
(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;
(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and
(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.
Sec. 3. Considerations.
In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for–
(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and
(2) protecting the taxpayer.
Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.
Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.
Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.
(a) Exercise of Rights.–The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.
(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.–The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.
(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.–The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.
(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.–The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.
Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.
The Secretary’s authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time
Sec. 7. Funding.
For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.
Sec. 8. Review.
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.
The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.
Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.
Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.
Sec. 11. Credit Reform.
The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.
Sec. 12. Definitions.
For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.–The term “mortgage-related assets” means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.
(2) Secretary.–The term “Secretary” means the Secretary of the Treasury.
(3) United States.–The term “United States” means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia. To top of page
First Published: September 20, 2008: 11:33 AM EDT
Bush wants OK to spend $700B
annie_moose, section 8 is on my all time favorites list as well.
Does anyone think that this is constitutional (keeping in mind that messy “separation of powers” argument) or a good idea to give any Secretary of the Treasury that much power?
Another McCain flip-flop:
McCain says economy in crisis
http://www.kansas.com/514/story/537503.html
Gee, and I thought it was only that everyone is a whiner!
Does it surprise anyone that the price of oil was up today (I believe the futures closed up over $16 bbl) given the devaluation of the dollar sure to follow the “bailout”; I’m sure covering contracts had a bit to do with it, too, but surely this rise didn’t come as a surprise to Sec. Paulson, Chmn. Bernanke and others.
Gives a whole new meaning for mortgage holder.
And as the Government takes control of private industry, partisan politics keep both sides busy blaming the other. The sheeple take great pride and joy at pointing their fingers at the other party.
Meanwhile, the sheeple don’t notice that all of their assets have been taken.
Y’all trust your Government and want to make it bigger.
I don’t.
ANTI & MAX == Scrollover material
DNFTT’s
Hey Max, if you dont trust your government, there are always other countries you can move to… OR, you could vote Democrat, and save the country!!!
Chas
Posted September 22, 2008 at 3:12 pm | Permalink
ANTI & MAX == Scrollover material
DNFTT’s
========
What? That is your answer? HA HA HA!!!
You do know Chas, this will affect us ALL, regardless of political faith.
The verdict is isn. The economy and America was strong, but not strong enough to survive 8 yrs. of 43 and repub. philosophy put into practical application.
The sheeple take great pride and joy at pointing their fingers at the other party.
What’s that called …… culture wars that’s it.
Bush has been pushing for a consolidation of financial regulatory oversight into the hands of a czar, before this mess ever came to a head (assuming it has). If he didn’t have such a reputation for being a power grabber, maybe he wouldn’t be so suspect now. As it stands, only a third of the country trusts him.
How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis: Kevin Hassett, Bloomburg.com
“Now that the collapse has occurred, the roadblock built by Senate Democrats in 2005 is unforgivable. Many who opposed the bill doubtlessly did so for honorable reasons. Fannie and Freddie provided mounds of materials defending their practices. Perhaps some found their propaganda convincing.
But we now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years.
Throughout his political career, Obama has gotten more than $125,000 in campaign contributions from employees and political action committees of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, second only to Dodd, the Senate Banking Committee chairman, who received more than $165,000.
Clinton, the 12th-ranked recipient of Fannie and Freddie PAC and employee contributions, has received more than $75,000 from the two enterprises and their employees. The private profit found its way back to the senators who killed the fix.
There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.
Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that’s worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess. ”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0
The next admin. will have its hands full dealing with the fallout of the last 8 yrs., be they repub. or dem.
Does this mean Ossama has won?
If we bail out Wall Street we’re screwed.
If we don’t bail out Wall Street we’re screwed.
Which is the least bad alternative and why. Show your work. Thanks.
Looks like they’ve tightened down on some of the loose ends:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080922/financial_meltdown.html
good find on the bloomberg article boxlock,here’s a different viewpoint on the exact same thing
n the aftermath of the US Treasury’s decision to seize control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, critics have hit at lax oversight of the mortgage companies.
The dominant theme has been that Congress let the two government-sponsored enterprises morph into a creature that eventually threatened the US financial system. Mike Oxley will have none of it.
Instead, the Ohio Republican who headed the House financial services committee until his retirement after mid-term elections last year, blames the mess on ideologues within the White House as well as Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.
The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley, now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.
He fumes about the criticism of his House colleagues. “All the handwringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this,” he says. “What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute.”
The House bill, the 2005 Federal Housing Finance Reform Act, would have created a stronger regulator with new powers to increase capital at Fannie and Freddie, to limit their portfolios and to deal with the possibility of receivership.
Mr Oxley reached out to Barney Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the committee and now its chairman, to secure support on the other side of the aisle. But after winning bipartisan support in the House, where the bill passed by 331 to 90 votes, the legislation lacked a champion in the Senate and faced hostility from the Bush administration.
Adamant that the only solution to the problems posed by Fannie and Freddie was their privatisation, the White House attacked the bill. Mr Greenspan also weighed in, saying that the House legislation was worse than no bill at all.
“We missed a golden opportunity that would have avoided a lot of the problems we’re facing now, if we hadn’t had such a firm ideological position at the White House and the Treasury and the Fed,” Mr Oxley says.
When Hank Paulson joined the administration as Treasury secretary in 2006 he sent emissaries to Capitol Hill to explore the possibility of reaching a compromise, but to no avail.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
I think banks may be directly or indirectly at risk, and there is probably a potential for catastrophic implosion of our banking system, less you wouldn’t see congress moving so fast.
If ma and pa lose their life savings across mainstream america, we’d probably have anarchy.
FWIW, I saw Barney Frank on CSPAN, and he confirmed Oxley’s account.
“Mr Oxley reached out to Barney Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the committee and now its chairman, ”
annie,
That wouldn’t be the same Barney Frank that has been caught cheating on his taxes now would it?
Just what kind of ‘reaching out’ to Barney Frank was going on?
There is plenty of blame to go around. The question is whether things will calm down.
I dont want to see ANYbody lose their long worked for pension funds, or life savings….
Even if they are Solid, Right Wing, A$$ kissin Reich Wing nut cases….
Everybody works hard for their retirement… and NOBODY should lose that to the foibles and eploits of Worst President Ever!!!
Secretary of Defense Barney Frank:
“Say Obama, Osama is in Pakistan!
But Pakistan won’t let us in, and they have 60 nukes.
Obama, you want to get Osama anyway?”
Obama:
“Where’s my crack? Somebody find my crack, quick!”
SOD Frank:
“I’ll help you with that Obama!”
Obama:
“No, No, that’s not what I meant! I meant, where is my COCAINE!”
Chass- And, oh, Max, WHY do you constantly assume that all Liberals earn under $250,000, and thus wont have any tax increases??? Has somebody poisoned your brain??? Or what???
—————————————————
Because a liberal that earns more than 250k is a hypocrite.
or just a liar.
Wondering, Boxlock, if you have Barney Frank confused with another.
As to your last bit, I agree that is the question; the answer, IMHO, is no, not for a while (say second quarter, 2009).
MaxGrobnik- Barney Frank:
“thay Obama, Othama ith in Pakithtan!
there, i fixed it…
TO ALL MY FRIENDS….LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE……..FYI?
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high?
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon?
3) Unemployment rate was 4.5%.?
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high–14,000 +?
5) American’s were buying new cars, taking cruises,
vacations overseas, living large!…
But American’s wanted ‘CHANGE’!? So, in 2006 they voted in a
Democratic Congress and yes–we got ‘CHANGE’ all right. In the PAST
YEAR:?
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted?
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!?
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION
5) DOLLARS and prices still dropping?
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
7) as I write, THE DOW is lower?
* $2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR
STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!
* YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE…AND WE SURE?GOT IT!? ….
* AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO
REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!
JUST HOW MUCH MORE ‘CHANGE’ DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?
Barney Frank confused with another.
—————————-
Charlie Rangel
Thanks Biased1.
I didn’t get the Barney Frank accent written up correctly.
Sounds like he has something in his mouth when he talks.
Thanks biased1; couldn’t come up with Rangel’s name.
Max, two things that also happened in 2006 which might have as much to do with the economy as that which you post:
1) Ben Bernanke took over as Chairman of the Federal Reserve in February;
2) Henry Paulson became Secretary of the Treasury in May.
But what is really interesting is a statement that Nancy Pelosi made on April 24, 2006. Here is what she said:
“Democrats have a common-sense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.”
And here is what she and the Democrats delivered. From a column in the Huntington, West Virginia Herald-Dispatch:
Well, over a year after taking the Senate and the House on Jan. 4, 2007, and promising to lower oil prices, the Democrats have presided over the highest oil price increase in history. Last week, gasoline prices averaged $3.94 per gallon, $1.03 higher than when now-Speaker Pelosi made her politically motivated promise.
Right avtolle, and I never used to even consider any Fed Conspiracy theories until Sol posted a few good links.
Ya gotta wonder…
Top 10 reasons to blame Democrats for soaring gasoline prices
10) ANWR If Bill Clinton had signed into law the Republican Congress’s 1995 bill to allow drilling of ANWR instead of vetoing it,
9) Coastal Drilling (i.e., not in my backyard) Democrats have consistently fought efforts to drill off the U.S. coast.
8) Insistence on alternative fuels One of the first acts of the new Democrat-controlled congress in 2007 was an energy bill that “calls for a huge increase in the use of ethanol as a motor fuel and requires new appliance efficiency standards.” By focusing on alternative fuels such as ethanol, and not more drilling, Democrats have added to the cost of food, worsening starvation problems around the word and increasing inflationary pressures in the U.S., including prices at the pump.
7) Nuclear power Even the French, who sometimes seem to lack the backbone to stand up for anything other than soft cheese, faced down their environmentalists over the need for nuclear power.
6) Coal “The liquid hydrocarbon fuel available from American coal reserves exceeds the crude oil reserves of the entire world,” writes Dr. Arthur Robinson in an article on humanevents.com. The U.S. has approximately one-fourth of the world’s known, proven coal reserves. Coal would be a proven, and increasingly clean, source of electric power and–at current prices–a liquified fuel that would reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Yet Dems and their enviro friends have fought, and continue to fight, both coal-mining and coal plants.
5) Refinery capacity “High oil prices are still being propped up by a shortage of refinery capacity and there is little sign of the bottleneck easing until 2010,” according to Peak Oil News. And, while voters in South Dakota have approved zoning for what could become the first new oil refinery in the United States in 30 years, the Dems’ environmentalist constituency vows to oppose it, just like environmentalists opposed the floodgates that could have saved New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina.
4) Reduced competition With consolidation in the oil industry, has come reduced competition. Remember, most of the major oil company mergers — Shell-Texaco, BP-Amoco, Exxon-Mobil, BP-ARCO, and Chevron-Texaco — happened on Clinton’s watch. The number of oil refiners dropped from 28 to 19 companies during Clinton’s two terms.
3) The Global Warming Myth At a Group of 8 meeting this week, host and Japanese Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Akira Amari “described the issues of climate change and energy as two sides of the same coin and proposed united solutions … to address both issues simultaneously”. As a result of Global Warming hysteria, the Al Gore-negotiated Kyoto Protocol created a worldwide market in carbon-emissions trading. Both 2005 –the year that trading was initiated–and this year –when the trading expanded dramatically — saw substantial and unexpected price spikes in the cost of oil, leading us to reason Number…
2) Speculation The trading of energy commodities by large firms on OTC electronic exchanges was exempted from (federal) oversight by a provision inserted at the behest of Enron and other large energy traders into the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.” The bill was signed into law by Bill Clinton, in one of his last acts in office.
1) Defeat of President Bush’s 2001 energy package According to the BBC, “Key points of Bush(’s 2001) plan were to: -Promote new oil and gas drilling -Build new nuclear plants -Improve electricity grid and build new pipelines -$10bn in tax breaks to promote energy efficiency and alternative fuels
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/top_10_reasons_to_blame_democr_1.html
Bailout’s “dirty secret?”
“Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”
Jason Linkins has a story on the above sentence in the bailout proposal.
He says it’s, “an abdication of oversight authority that’s so flat-out astounding that it ought to set one’s hair on fire.”
Is this a good thing?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/22/dirty-secret-of-the-bailo_n_128294.html
MAX — you are so friggin blind, you cant see the forest for the trees… or is that see the trees for the forest… either way, take off your damned blinders!!!
Your horse SH*T has gone on far too long!!!
It’s time for some folks to start knocking you down off of that perch of yours…. And I know just the folks to do it!!
Max, on the top 10 list you posted: number 2 is IMHO the most directly related (BTW, this was/is known as the “Enron exception”).
DavidB, no, that is most definitely NOT a good thing, IMO; and, as expressed earlier today, likely unconstitutional (again, IMHO).
Be careful Max, “They are real”…..
About the above scroll over post (an except and a link is so much kinder):
“How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis” is commentary by Kevin Hassett
He has avested interest in laying this all on the opponent’s political party.
Hassett is a senior fellow for the American Enterprise Institute.
According to Wikipedia:
“AEI has emerged as one of the leading architects of the second Bush administration’s public policy. More than twenty AEI alumni and current visiting scholars and fellows have served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government’s many panels and commissions.”
“AEI has connections with the neoconservative movement in American politics. Irving Kristol, widely regarded as the movement’s founder, is a Senior Fellow at AEI.”
Since Bush outsourced policy to these guys, they have to pin the blame somewhere else… -db
“the White House attacked the bill”
But the BushBots still blame the out-of-power Democrats.
MaxGrobnik,
Maybe if you people lie enough, you can get the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge opened to drilling, and maybe cause gasoline prices to drop.
A few pennies a gallon. In a few decades. If OPEC doesn’t cut their production a tiny amount, to raise prices.
http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/PennyaGallon20yrs1.pdf
BLAME BILL?
The “Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000″ [H.R. 5660 was introduced in the House on Dec. 14, 2000 by Rep. Thomas Ewing [R-IL] … and never debated in the House.
The companion bill (S.3283) was introduced in the Senate on Dec. 15th, 2000 by Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) and cosponsored by Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL) Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) Sen. Charles Hagel (R-NE) Sen. Thomas Harkin (D-IA) Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD) and never debated in the Senate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
On at least seven appearances in 2008, no CBS Good Morning America host asked Obamanation or Mrs. Obamanation about abortion, and that includes skipping issues such as Obamanation promoting infanticide in deliberately and ruthlessly killing the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection bill, voting against it several times, even after the abortion neutrality clause had bee inserted, which Obamanation denied with repeated lies elsewhere.
Instead, GMA probed Sen. and Mrs. McCain for division on their abortion positions, presuming no educated woman could be really opposed to Roe v. Wade, the worst Supreme Court blunder in modern history.
- – -
The invasive procedures used with a long needle to detect Down syndrome in unborn children result in the miscarriages of two healthy children for every three Down babies detected, a British study has found. The study’s researchers, from the charity Down Syndrome Education International (DSEI), estimate that in the process of detecting and aborting 660 Down babies annually, screening leads to the deaths of 400 babies who do not have the disorder in England and Wales alone. Based upon their findings, the researchers are calling into question the ethical standing of the government’s policy of offering screening to all pregnant women.
95% of women deemed to be high risk by a screening blood test will not be carrying a Down syndrome baby, yet most go on to have the invasive tests, thereby greatly increasing the risk of miscarriage. Eugenics advocates will view the risk of the miscarriage of a healthy baby as acceptable, because more of the babies actually afflicted with Down syndrome can be killed before birth.
About 90% of babies diagnosed with Down syndrome before birth in the USofA are killed in abortion mills, their parents pushed in by eugenics-minded medical “professionals” who consider such children less than human and unworthy of birth or adoption.
- – -
Two Lebanon, PA teenagers have been charged with concealing the death of a child, abuse of a corpse and criminal conspiracy, in connection with the June discovery of the remains of a dead premature baby boy buried in a backyard. The infant was born in April, 2007 at 7 months gestation to a 15-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy. The cause of death could not be determined, nor could the reasons for the concealed pregnancy and birth, since asking for help and medical care with the pregnancy, and possibly with adoption, would have kept the teenagers from an extended stay in juvenile hall, and perhaps kept them from receiving the disgust and contempt they now publicly bear.
“It’s time for some folks to start knocking you down off of that perch of yours…. And I know just the folks to do it!!”
________________________________________________
My dear Chas., my distressed little minister of the ‘Church of What Feels Good Now’.
Your real name is generally known on the Blog – you might refrain from making threats to the other posters.
Limit on Gun Law Passes; Senate Vote Unlikely
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/17/AR2008091701314.html?sid=ST2008091701318&s_pos=
“The House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly yesterday to legalize semiautomatic rifles in the District and repeal its gun registration laws, but the bill’s future appeared in doubt as a prominent senator announced she would try to block it.”
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 was tacked on to another bill by none other than Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) – McCain’s chief economic adviser – and perhaps his closest political friend.
So one of ten mothers CHOOSE to keep a Downes-afflicted child.. I am happy they made their choice! Isn’t choice good?
Can you quote a professional who calls Downes children as being “less than human?” Or did you just make that up?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
I’ve been an ass with my language on here I know, but call it passion. Please, I’m begging you guys, watch this film. This is a true eye opener and you’ll be very glad…and upset that you’ve learned what you will (by having watched it). For your children’s sake, watch it. It’s the root of all our ills and this will empower you. I know it’s done it for me, it’s exactly why I get so passionate about things the way I do. I never “mean” to get jack-assy on here, it’s just (I guess) my way of breaking open the shell.Good luck.
DavidB Posted September 22, 2008 at 4:58 pm |
“About the above scroll over post (an except[sic] and a link is so much kinder):”
That was an excerpt (not except) and a link nitwit, read and attempt to engage your brain before posting.
And please direct your babble to the facts presented and content, and not simply an argumentum ad hominem of the author.
You did nothing to disprove what was said…your argument is rejected as baseless.
Pleefer,
I need not go any farther in the video than the first 3 minutes to listen to it tell me that the 16th amendment was never really ratified.
Also, in the first 3 minutes it pulled a quote from James C Fox which is notoriously misused by the income tax conspiracy theory group.
Sorry, I need not go any further than the first 3 minutes when a film has presented me with so much BS in the first 3 mintues.
That damn global warming, it just won’t stop.
Hey cosmos,
S Africa faces ‘winter wonderland’; snow, coldest September temps in recorded history.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=14&art_id=vn20080921084615870C810928
Hank nice try — except no threats were made —- ummmm nitwit….
And I woukld bet you a bunch of $$$ that only a handful on the Blog know my name… Now YOUR post sounds like some kind of threat!!! LOL
#
Chas
Posted September 22, 2008 at 6:16 pm | Permalink
Hank nice try — except no threats were made —- ummmm nitwit….
And I woukld bet you a bunch of $$$ that only a handful on the Blog know my name… Now YOUR post sounds like some kind of threat!!! LOL
————————–
(smirks and points to Apophis)
My mistake.. It was such a long cut and paste, I thought it was the entire article.
I am not mistaken that the author of that commentary is playing political hack for McCain and his institution which has helped craft the policies we are suffering under now.
I don’t believe that questioning a man’s objectivity is an ad hominem attack.
I believe an ad hominem attack is more along the lines of of calling someone a “nitwit,” who “babbles” and does not “attempt to engage his brain.”
I really try to avoid that.
“If there were any truth to that, DemoRats would be holding Congressional Investigations…”
Interesting post above by Max.
The democrats this session have been quick to start a formal investigation everytime a republican so much as looks at them cross-eyed.
Why no investigation on the biggest, most expensive single subject item in the history of our nation?
Not even one question? No committee to investigate?
Strange.
“I woukld bet you a bunch of $$$”
Chas? Is that really you?
You don’t have a “bunch of money”.
“And I woukld bet you a bunch of $$$ that only a handful on the Blog know my name…”
________________________________________________
hehehe
I know it, and that could be more than a handful for you.
________________________________________________
“Now YOUR post sounds like some kind of threat!!! LOL”
________________________________________________
Merely a friendly suggestion, my ordained little buddy. I’ll never threaten you. Why give you a warning?
AmWay, the Blog Hog, lies about something he/she knows NOTHING about!!
Gotta stand up for the LYING Hank, eh???
As unemployment rises and other economic warning signs accumulate, pressure is building in both the House and Senate to do something to help stabilize our ailing economy. There has been much talk about what needs to be done to fix Wall Street and little about the needs of Main Street.
As talk of a bailout continues we need to remind Congress that there are separate economic issues at play, and that it is their duty to champion the needs of the most vulnerable among us as they work to address broader economic challenges.
Call on Congress to address the needs of the most economically vulnerable and stimulate the economy before they adjourn for recess.
The United Church of Christ — http://www.ucc.org — has long been an advocate for just, democratic, participatory and inclusive economic policies. Today, we cannot be silent and allow our elected officials to fail those whom they were elected to serve: the millions of families who are depending on vital services to survive these difficult economic times. We must press them to ensure that families do not have to make impossible choices between feeding their children, heating their homes and filling their prescriptions in the coming months.
Urge Congress to increase funding for nutrition programs, the Emergency Food and Shelter Program, home energy assistance, extend unemployment insurance and provide more aid to states for Medicaid before they adjourn for recess.
These programs do more than aid families in difficult times; they have a powerful simulative effect on our economy. They have the potential to get the economy moving by increasing the income of low- and moderate-income people and by preventing loss of services and jobs.
Congress needs to respond to the growing need in our communities – lost jobs, threatened homes, and surging food and energy prices. Preventing further hardship will not only help millions of people it will help to reverse the economic down turn.
Write to Congress now!
Hank, YOU are one lying POS… I will not take your intimidation tactics lightly… THAT is a warning for YOU…. and any of your other little friends who want to stick their noses where they do not belong….
Got it, Mister???
So, Hank, you gonna admit you are lying?? Or do you want to wait for that other shoe to drop??
Chas, now come on, you’ve been telling us for ages how poor you are, an ordained priest. You’ve posted many times your jealousy of others whom in your mind have money (which to you means a big house). I think you posted about Hank Price being rich, once or twice.
Did you suddenly put your hand into that collection plate? Throw it all up in the air and decided what God wanted he could take – and you’d pick up everything that fell to the ground?
AmWay…. I have NEVER posted anything regarding my income or my asets on this Blog. You like LYING with your “fiends”???
fallengelassene Felsen
BTW, Amway, The size of a house, has no bearing on whether or not the owner is rich, OR whether said house is a home, or just a mere domicile…. Idiot!!
“Why give you a warning?”
Can you at least wait until after the XMAS season? What would the blog be like without Reverend Chas and his jekyll and hyde conversion on these web pages into the holy saint of Christmas Tide. Where would we be without witness to his change from name calling, profanity, and anti Christian comments into the Christmas saint we all know and love (more like Heckle and Jeckle all rolled up in one).
Oh yea, AmWay…. I am NOT a priest either!!
Gotcha!!
“I am NOT a priest either”
Whatever Chas. I don’t pick your illusions. I just read em all here.
Regular
Posted September 22, 2008 at 7:20 pm | Permalink
fallengelassene Felsen
========================================
Damn, Regular, you got some strong kool aide there man… Beter go easy on that stuff…
Chas,
Tell that to BlueJay. He seems to think that my father and mother are rich because of their home.
AmWay…. YOU called me a priest… I am correcting your GROSS, but intentional, EROR..
And, hey, stupid…. That aint NO delusion!!
Well, that’s Blue Jay… I dont happen to buy into that particular concept of “rich”
Chas,
How do you know my father is lying?
You know what Chas – I gotta apologize.
Nathan set me straight. I had you confused with
the old JR.
Sorry about that.
But I still like your Christmas conversion. It makes me laugh.
Furthermore, AmWay… you wont find ANY post of mine that ever suggested that I AM a priest!! What a stupid lunatic you are!!
“hey, stupid”
Now that’s the old saint Chas. That’s the christian spirit we all know and love.
“stupid lunatic”
Whatever reverend Chas. THe illusion continues….
Anything from the Marine Chaplains about our resident Gunnery Sergeant yet?
Nathaniel
Posted September 22, 2008 at 7:28 pm | Permalink
Chas,
How do you know my father is lying?
========================================
Nathan, that would be for me to know, and for you to guess about….
So, you would rather throw out ad hominem’s, than admit that you are lying… nice touch, dumb A$$
hehehe
You seem to be off your meds again, Chas.
Go ahead ad drop the other shoe, I seemed to have missed the first one.
Chas,
“you would rather throw out ad hominem’s” ….. “dumb A$$”
And you are a hypocritial idiot.
As to your other stupid question, AmWay, that would be a matter between Nathan and the Corps… It is not in my hands…
Chas,
I do remember you saying this:
Chas
Posted June 30, 2008 at 3:01 am | Permalink
“You are one of the biggest liars here!! I do not swear at posters — Just another one of your lies”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/06/open-thread-629-2/#comment-376050
Let me guess, dumb a$$ is not a swear word?
Idiot.
Chas,
There is no matter between me and the Marine Corps concerning anything I have said here.
As I have pointed out many times, I have yet to hear one word about it from anyone.
Now why would speaking the TRUTH about somebody be a swear word?? Hey, I cant help who/what AmWay is… I doubt that you can grasp that concept…. but, it doesnt matter…
“Nathan and the Corps… It is not in my hands…”
Chas I think most of the blog knows a lie when we here one. And that was a whopper on your part.
If you DID write anyone officially, the government would have the letter as a matter of public record.
But then, you haven’t a clue as to whom you would or could have written to, do you?
Chas,
Whether or not someone is actually a “Dumb A$$” or not doesn’t negate the fact that the word is still a swear word.
Idiot.
Nathan, that would be up to the Corps… Again, it is out of my hands… And before you and your little buddies start your crap, I also posted LONG ago, that anything I have done in that regard, has NOTHING to do with your military career… So, dont even GO there again!!
“dumb a$$!”
Oh Chas, your were directing your potty mouth at me? Hell, I didn’t even KNOW it! I guess I’m conditioned to your name-calling.
If it was up to me, I would much prefer that the Corps USE your talents and abilities in some positive manner, rather than keeping you in the Reserves… But, thats just my own personal opinion…
“NOTHING to do with your military career… ”
How truly stupid can you be? Your “claim” to have written a letter to the chaplains of the Marines putting a Marine on REPORT.
But then claim it has NOTHING to do with his career?
That’s like saying you wrote the Bar Association about a lawyer – but it had nothing to do with his career.
How dense is dense?
Chas,
The Corps doesn’t keep me in the Reserves. I am in the Reserves because that is my choice. As are nearly 40,000 others who all contribute and use their talents honorably in the service of their country.
Idiot.
LOL AmWay…. I actually thought that WAS your name… so, how can it be name calling??
The time for public shame draws near…
Nathan, you gotta be one of a kind… I give you a compliment…. and YOU call ME an idiot!!
Nathan, I just dont know how to fix stupid… But, keep it up, I am starting to figure it out!!
Chas,
Only in your twisted mind would that be a compliment.
Regular,
Public shame?
I am wondering how much longer it will take BlueJay, MonkeyHawk, and Steven to come along to the defense of Chas while calling us even worse names.
Regular, you are the reason I have Babel Fish bookmarked. Man, that’s a lot of letters for such a little phrase.
“Tell that to BlueJay. He seems to think that my father and mother are rich because of their home.”
Don’t put words in my mouth.
Never seen their home. Don’t want to.
Your fatherly routinely brags about how much money your step mother has.
BlueJay,
You might not have seen the home, but you have made comments on the neighborhood and how living there makes them rich.
Or did you forget all your gated community comments?
By the way, what gate did you have to come through last time?
I have yet to find it.
“The time for public shame draws near…”
Are ya plannin’ a stroll Jimmuh?
Nathan, how many hash marks? Not trying to get personal, but I heard with the war there have been changes to TR FMCR rules. It used to be age sixty plus so many years service. I know it’s constructive service (combining SMCR, Active, and even points for what was called the IRR. Start collecting at that time or sixty-five?
Plus it’s high three now, right?
Understand completely on the personal side. Leave that out. But if you could update an old timer on the rules, I could know if the FNGuy at the VFW was trying to pull one over on me.
Hey Jr! You did post about the gated community Hank and someone else lived in.
That’s not a lie.
For the record. I happen to believe that “American way” is Hank.
American_Way,
I have really only heard them called service stripes, not hash marks.
I have 3 now, 1 for each 4 years I have served.
Retirement? I have no idea. Well, I do, but the Reserves are so complicated with points and the time you served activated. Basically some time around 60 to 65.
Payment is based on some complicated point system I have yet to try to figure out.
Talk to me in about 6-7 years and I will let you know what I have figured out by then… LOL
BlueJay,
“For the record”, how many posters have you accused my father of being now?
LOL
“Your fatherly routinely brags about how much money your step mother has.”
hehehe
A lie. I think I’ll start documenting all the lies and unfounded lies by implication that our pathetic little friend, BlueJay tells about my family and me.
This will be lie #1
#
Regular
Posted September 22, 2008 at 7:49 pm | Permalink
The time for public shame draws near…
____________________________________________
hehehe
Sorry Regular, Chas. has nothing to be ashamed of. He has never lied, never called anyone a name, never used the Lord’s name in vain, hell, he’s a regular saint!
It would not be any same for him at all for his little congregation to see how he brings us heathens to Christ on this little BLOG!
hehehe
Oh bother. . .
same = shame
Holy crap, how am I supposed to catch up on nearly 500 posts?
“About 90% of babies diagnosed with Down syndrome before birth in the USofA are killed in abortion mills, their parents pushed in by eugenics-minded medical “professionals” who consider such children less than human and unworthy of birth or adoption.”
And you and Sarah Palin would change this….
how?
Nevermind, I know. You think you could FORCE the parents to devote to the lifelong chore of taking care of one of these unfortunate mistakes of nature.
How will you compel that?
A lady friend and I ended a Down pregnancy. There is no way on this EARTH you could force me into that sort of committment.
#
BlueJay
Posted September 22, 2008 at 8:41 pm | Permalink
Nevermind, I know. You think you could FORCE the parents to devote to the lifelong chore of taking care of one of these unfortunate mistakes of nature.
How will you compel that?
A lady friend and I ended a Down pregnancy. There is no way on this EARTH you could force me into that sort of committment.
==========================================
You’re in infamous company, the Nazi’s had the same philosophy.
“mistakes of nature.”
That’s what you call children who are less than normal?
I think you are baiting, but if your lady friend (doesn’t sound like you’ve had any to me), decided to keep her child, you really would have NO CHOICE
in opposing it.
Isn’t choice grand?
What is the first-trimester screening test?
Some providers offer a first-trimester screening test for Down syndrome and trisomy 18. This test also may show if a baby is at increased risk for heart defects.
This test is done between 11 and 13 weeks after a woman’s last menstrual period. It is called the combined test because the test has two parts: a blood test and an ultrasound examination (a test that uses sound waves to take a picture of the fetus). The provider sends the blood sample to the lab, which measures the levels of two substances in the mother’s blood: free-beta hCG (a specific form of the pregnancy hormone human chorionic gonadotropin) and pregnancy-associated protein A (PAPP-A). Levels of PAPP-A tend to be decreased, and hCG increased, with Down syndrome.
The woman also will have a special ultrasound exam to measure the thickness at the back of the baby’s neck (called nuchal translucency). Increased thickness is associated with Down syndrome, other chromosomal abnormalities and heart defects. The ultrasound exam should be done by a health professional who is specifically certified, for example by the Nuchal Translucency Quality Review Program, because special training is required to do this test accurately (2). A woman’s provider can refer her to an appropriate facility.
The lab will calculate a woman’s risk of chromosomal birth defects, using the combined results of her blood test and ultrasound exam. Studies show that this test can detect about 82 to 87 percent of pregnancies affected by Down syndrome and up to 95 percent of those affected by trisomy 18 (1, 3, 4).
What is the second-trimester screening test?
Most women are offered a second-trimester screening test, which is done 15 to 20 weeks after a woman’s last menstrual period. This test has a number of names, including maternal serum (blood) screening test, multiple marker screening test, triple screen and quad screen. This test screens for NTDs, chromosomal birth defects and certain uncommon abdominal birth defects.
This test currently measures the levels of three or four substances in the mother’s blood. When maternal blood testing first began in the early 1980s, the test measured only alpha-fetoprotein (AFP), a substance produced by the liver of the fetus. Some of this protein passes into the amniotic fluid surrounding the fetus and into the mother’s bloodstream, where its concentration rises gradually until late in pregnancy. Levels of AFP are used to screen for NTDs.
Along with maternal serum alpha-fetoprotein (MSAFP) levels, the test now measures the levels of hCG and another pregnancy hormone called estriol. When the test measures these three substances, it’s called the triple screen.
Most laboratories in the United States measure the level of a fourth hormone called inhibin A. When this substance is included, the test is called a quadruple (quad) screen. Studies show that adding inhibin A to the test make it more accurate than the triple screen in detecting Down syndrome (about 80 percent vs. about 70 percent) (1). Both the triple and quad screen can detect about 75 to 80 percent of pregnancies affected by spina bifida, and nearly 95 percent of those affected by a related NTD called anencephaly (5).
Do some women have both a first- and second-trimester screening test?
Women who have the first-trimester screening test for Down syndrome should be screened for NTDs in the second trimester by checking MSAFP levels or having an ultrasound exam (1).
Providers may offer women the option of taking both the first- and second-trimester screening tests. This is called integrated screening if a woman does not receive her results until after the second-trimester test, or sequential screening if she receives results after both parts of the test. Studies show that these tests together can detect about 95 percent of cases of Down syndrome (1, 3).
End of data.
I think it is important if this discussion is to go further into Downs Syndrome abortions, that the facts related to procedure and diagnosis be known.
Our daughter with DS, Benedetta, is now 3 y old, and she is a wonderful and serene baby (Fig. 1). My wife and I never thought of her as an unlucky child, or of us as unlucky parents. Moreover, Benedetta has changed our life for the better and we are delighted to have her. She is perfectly integrated in our family and community, as well as in the school group, and therefore we are very optimistic about her future. In fact, it is well known that people with DS vary enormously in appearance, temperament and ability. Early intervention programmes, educational opportunities, integration in all aspects of society, adequate stimulation and encouragement can help DS children to achieve heights that were once unattainable. In this regard, perhaps we still do not know the full potential of people with DS. In fact, as in DS the resultant dosage-related under- and over-expression of genes contained within chromosome 21 too efficiently determines specific gene-phenotype correlations, it is necessary to identify the gene content of chromosome 21 and, perhaps, not only that (11-14). Moreover, all human chromosome 21 genes have to be identified in order to assess their functional associations and expression patterns. It may be that different expression patterns are associated with different levels of performance of different functions. Once these features are identified, we could address more specifically the intervention programmes, in order to enhance those functions that are particularly developed in these children, thus giving them the best chance to reach their full potential.
http://www.altonweb.com/cs/downsyndrome/index.htm?page=latini.html
Demand grows for children with Down syndrome
Adoption agencies say interest is high.
Published Sunday, February 5, 2006
KANSAS CITY (AP) – For Diane and David Petersohn, seven was not enough.
One of their seven children has Down syndrome, and when the couple from Liberty decided to adopt an eighth child, they wanted another one with Down syndrome.
The Petersohns had plenty of company. They placed their names on national lists of people seeking to adopt children with Down syndrome.
They waited. And waited.
After nearly three years, the Petersohns turned to a private agency that facilitates international adoptions. Today, they’re raising money and completing paperwork needed to adopt a 6-month-old boy from Ecuador who has the syndrome, a type of retardation caused by a genetic malfunction.
Like the Petersohns, most who seek to adopt Down Syndrome children have had a family member, friend or acquaintance with the disorder or work with them in medical or school professions.
“Out of all the special needs children can have, many think Down syndrome is the more manageable,” said Rachel Crews, a social worker with the Special Additions adoption agency in Stillwell, Kan. “People think they are just great kids, people feel like they are very lovable.”
Changing attitudes toward people with all disabilities, efforts to include them in everyday life and improved medical treatments also have helped, advocates say.
“Society as a whole is much more accepting,” said David Tolleson, executive director of the National Down Syndrome Congress in Atlanta. “You are much more likely today to see people with disabilities in the media, places of worship, schools.
“Whereas in a prior generation, mothers were told when they had a baby with Down syndrome or another disability, ‘Put the child in an institution and forget about them.’ “
So JR, you can see Downs and death or institutionalism is just another case like mental retardation, or mental disease – once society learns about it they will realize that children with Downs are just human beings like everyone else.
Enlightened and educated people know this. Doctors know this. But it will take time for society to face Downs just like they did other human disease, disfigurations, racism, sexism, and many others.
The innocent beauty of these children will be made known.
Ignorance will be overcome.
I hope the WE posts the Tiarhrt Amendment topic soon.
An “actual” letter from an Iowa resident sent to his Senator
The Honorable Tom Harkin
731 Hart Senate Office Building
Phone (202) 224 3254
Washington DC, 20510
Dear Senator Harkin,
As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.
My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill’s provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.
Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I’m excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes the last two years.
Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year.
Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as “in-state” tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.
Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver’s license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.
If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
Your Loyal Constituent,
Donald Ruppert
Burlington, IA
Chas
Posted September 22, 2008 at 4:47 pm | Permalink
MAX — you are so friggin blind, you cant see the forest for the trees… or is that see the trees for the forest… either way, take off your damned blinders!!!
Your horse SH*T has gone on far too long!!!
It’s time for some folks to start knocking you down off of that perch of yours…. And I know just the folks to do it!!
===========================================================
Make my day, phony preacher.
“There is no way on this EARTH you could force me into that sort of committment.”
That’s correct JR. You do not and cannot be forced into any commitments.
But the woman who was foolish enough to have a relationship with you had a choice. Even though you would have no commitment – she lives in a country where SHE has a choice what to do with her body and her baby.
Had she so chosen, you would be facing some pretty steep lawyer bills, lacking funds, you would be paying child support.
And begging for more FREE healthcare to bail your “no commitment” butt out.
American_Way
Posted September 22, 2008 at 6:54 pm | Permalink
“If there were any truth to that, DemoRats would be holding Congressional Investigations…”
Interesting post above by Max.
The democrats this session have been quick to start a formal investigation everytime a republican so much as looks at them cross-eyed.
Why no investigation on the biggest, most expensive single subject item in the history of our nation?
Not even one question? No committee to investigate?
Strange.
=============================================================
Yup. There’s an amazing lack of curiosity by the DemoRats to get to the root cause of the current $700 Billion crisis.
Might the Dems have their paws in the till again?
“Make my day, phony preacher.”
Hey Max! I heard you can get a religious certificate over the internet. It costs $25.00 and you have to fill out one legal size form.
I’ve been meaning to do it, just so I can post “I am a reverend” on the blog right after I post “SSHOLE”.
But heck, why even spend 25 bucks. I can make the claim now!
50% of Americans are obese and Chas wants to shove more food in their mouths.
Oh, and Chas uses the Church to beg for Government $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!
WTF happened to separate of Church & State?
Only when it’s convenient, I guess.
Might? Max you know darn well the dems don’t want an investigation. The history of all politicians involvement, the impact on banks and mortgage loan business (and small minority business) would be all over the media.
Can’t have any of that now can we?
I’m wondering why the open-minded, higher minded liberals on this BLOG are not demanding an investigation.
Spending 700 BILLION (count them) dollars, after discussions lasting less than a week – are unheard of. Heck, the democratic congress couldn’t even pass the 26 regular appropriation acts in twelve months!
The American people should DEMAND an investigation. Let the cards fall where they might.
Otherwise, history is bound to repeat itself, that is if American History survives.
American_Way
Posted September 22, 2008 at 9:16 pm | Permalink
“Make my day, phony preacher.”
Hey Max! I heard you can get a religious certificate over the internet. It costs $25.00 and you have to fill out one legal size form.
I’ve been meaning to do it, just so I can post “I am a reverend” on the blog right after I post “SSHOLE”.
But heck, why even spend 25 bucks. I can make the claim now!
==================================================================
Amway, got this link from Chas:
http://castinginhisnetblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/make-your-ministry-certificates.html
Make Your Ministry Certificates, Diplomas and Awards Free ONLINE!
Funny, found Obama’s Birth Certificate when I googled Print Your Own Certificate.
I’m sure this is a valid copy of Obama’s birth certificate, “proving” he’s an American.
(Just like Chas can prove he’s a preacher!) LOL ROFLMA
http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg
Political_mama
Posted September 22, 2008 at 8:30 pm | Permalink
Holy crap, how am I supposed to catch up on nearly 500 posts?”
Just scroll on down PM. Most of them are crap, name-calling, blaming each others party repeats of everyday. Then, there are some Chas/JR attacks on the Price’s and that series.
But just look at the count for the WEBLOG. Numbers count. Doesn’t matter content.
Better to count number of posters.
“BlueJay,
“For the record”, how many posters have you accused my father of being now?
LOL”
That doesn’t sound like a denial there Nathan.
Well JR/BJ, I’m calling it a night. Thanks for revealing you aborted a “deformed” child. I’ll bet you are wishing you did the same with that son of yours too, huh?
If you can’t provide a good life, health insurance, and all the things a young teen wants – maybe you should have had him sucked out too?
“There is no way on this EARTH you could force me into that sort of committment.”
That statement, in a nutshell, describes perfectly what is wrong with our world. Thanks JR.
MaxGrobnik
Posted September 22, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink
Oh, and Chas uses the Church to beg for Government $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!
WTF happened to separate of Church & State?
Only when it’s convenient, I guess.
==========================================
Does this constant barrage of LIES NEVER END??? How much LYING do you want Max??? Damned near every post as it is…. But yet, you keep it up???
WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR GODDAM PROBLEM, PEE BRAIN???
CANT YOU STAND IT WHEN SOMEBODY STANDS UP TO YOUR DAILY DOSE OF FILTH AND VILE S*IT???
WELL, GET USED TO IT SMART A$$…
Crap!
I thought I was Hank!
NOW, tomorrow is a long day….
Good night; Good luck; God bless —-
Whatver you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
Even those who make FUN of Ordained Clergy… Even those who cant stand FAITH…
Blessings on even those!!
So mote it be!!
GOOD NIGHT, DIM WICKS!!!
I didn’t lie Chas.
Your post was using your Church to beg for Government money.
Take a pill Chas, cause
YOU MIGHT BLOW A GASKET!!!!!
9:34, 9:35 good nights. How many more posts after the first good nights? Pretty early, I’ll say at least 10 more.
hehehe
Um Chas, if you are going to stand up to me, please get off your knees.
Oh ok, you are standing.
Ha, couldn’t tell.
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted September 22, 2008 at 9:33 pm | Permalink
Crap!
I thought I was Hank!
======================
Pipe down Max, it’s tomorrow night your Hank. I’m the day after. Hank is Hank tonight, unless he isn’t, then again he might be because there’s a possibility he is and isn’t at the same time.
An investigation? You want the Democrats to call for an investigation? WTF is that all about? This WILL be analyzed, by historians – when the time comes.
Now is the time to act. We may be close to kicking off a depression ala 1929! “The worst financial crisis since the 1930s.” (a fitting close to Bush’s presidency, I might add.)
They are negotiating the details of the bailout as we speak.
It is time to act.
“The majority leader, Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, said Democrats were prepared to do so. “Democrats in the Senate aren’t going to drag our feet,” he said in a speech on the Senate floor. “We’ll respond with the urgency of action that this situation demands, but after eight years of fiscal dereliction of duty, it’s time for accountability.”
A new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll suggests that by a 2-to-1 margin, Americans blame Republicans over Democrats for the financial crisis that has swept across the country the past few weeks.
- various sources
The biggest financial crisis since the thirties, threatening to go global, and these guys are throwing spit wads at each other all night! I find this disgusting, petty and childish.
Well heck, I’ve been Regular before too!
#
DavidB
Posted September 22, 2008 at 9:43 pm | Permalink
The biggest financial crisis since the thirties, threatening to go global, and these guys are throwing spit wads at each other all night! I find this disgusting, petty and childish.
======================================
I have garden seeds stored.
Not worried, the hoe and the plow show inherit the earth. :D
The following are among suggested topics for investigation by the 110th Congress:
abandonment of habeas corpus; individual rights versus national security; personal data leaks and invasion of privacy; and Patriot Act abuses (including domestic spying)
Central Intelligence Agency
defense contractors and war profiteering (particularly Halliburton/Kellogg Brown and Root)
extraordinary rendition and the global detention system
financial misconduct and lack of accountability
funding the war in Iraq
Hurricane Katrina
impeachment of President Bush (including; Bush’s abuse of the U.S. Constitution and a Constitutional crisis)
intelligence community and cooked intelligence
lies and deceptions
rationales for war in Iraq
scandals; cronyism and incompetence; and the Republican ‘culture of corruption’ (particularly Randy “Duke” Cunningham, Jack Abramoff, and Tom DeLay)
September 11, 2001
tobacco industry
war in Iraq (also see New Iraq and post-war Iraq) and war in Afghanistan
yellowcake forgery
Investigations surrounding Randy “Duke” Cunningham
On August 3, 2007, the House created a select committee, with subpoena power, to investigate a voting controversy surrounding an August 2 vote on the FY2008 agriculture appropriations bill.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=110th_Congress#Investigations
Just one question, JR…when you get to teh point in your life where someone must wheel you around, wipe your butt, and spoon feed you….do you hope there will be someone who’s willing to make that committment to you?
You only get out of life what you’re willing to put into it…and I believe “Karma” is for real.
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Committee to Hold Hearing on Implementation and Enforcement of the Clean Water Act
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Chairman Waxman Issues a Subpoena for Clean Water Act Documents
Wednesday, August 13, 2008
Chairman Waxman Renews Request for Information on Impacts of EPA Court Losses
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Committee Holds Hearing on Deficient Electrical Systems at U.S. Facilities in Iraq
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Committee Holds Hearing on Deficient Electrical Systems at U.S. Facilities in Iraq
Monday, July 28, 2008
Chairman Waxman Requests Information on Billions in Universal Service Fund Subsidies
Monday, July 28, 2008
Inspector General Questions Blackwater Small Business Contracts
http://oversight.house.gov/investigations.asp
Mary, take your offers to JR to another blog site please.
$700 Billion and the Libs all of a sudden are shy about Investigations.
Good for you, Reggie! Every man for himself! Let it meltdown! LOL!
Looters training will be offered in Old Town this Saturday at 10 AM in the Farmers Market.
There are $105,849 reasons why Obama does NOT want a Special Investigation for the $700 Billion Financial Bailout!
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/top-senate-recipients-of-fanni.html
1. Dodd, Christopher J
S
D-CT
$133,900
2. Kerry, John
S
D-MA
$111,000
3. Obama, Barack
S
D-IL
$105,849
4. Clinton, Hillary
S
D-NY
$75,550
And we’re coming after your seed!!!! WHAHAHAH!
“Mary, take your offers to JR to another blog site please.”
LOL! That’s a good one even for you, Max!
Goodnite all.
Max…and how much have the Republicans received?
Let’s have fair and balanced reporting now!
Mary – that is on the link he gave..
More to the point.. how much was going to Republicans – not AFTER the Democratic took the majority away – but WHILE this crisis was being built by reckless businessmen and their former colleagues and anti-regulation regulators.
Who got the lobbyist money in prior years? I do not have time to research this now..
Freddie Mac has given so much money to federal candidates, parties and PACs, in fact, that the Center for Responsive Politics ranks it among the top 100 donors of all time. So far this year the company’s PAC and employees have contributed $478,300, 54 percent of which went to Democrats.
54 percent of which went to Democrats
46 percent to Republicans
Woohoo
John McCain received $169,000 from Fannie and Freddie for his 2008 campaign
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/help-is-on-the-way-for-embattl.html
“Just one question, JR…when you get to teh point in your life where someone must wheel you around, wipe your butt, and spoon feed you….do you hope there will be someone who’s willing to make that committment to you?”
No.
I would hope they would hand me a gun and allow me to preserve my dignity.
Bringing Down’s babies into THIS world is no kindness. They are a lifelong commitment.
And what happens to them when their caretakers die?
In my own personal case, two single parent lives and the lives of 4 children would have been severely burdened.
We do not live in a kind society. I wish we did. I advocate for that. But unless and until we do, I will not be told that I must suffer for other’s beliefs.
DavidB
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:06 pm | Permalink
Mary – that is on the link he gave..
More to the point.. how much was going to Republicans – not AFTER the Democratic took the majority away – but WHILE this crisis was being built by reckless businessmen and their former colleagues and anti-regulation regulators.
Who got the lobbyist money in prior years? I do not have time to research this now..
================================================================
Who cares?
No need to investigate a $700 Billion+ screw-up.
BlueJay
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:21 pm | Permalink
We do not live in a kind society. I wish we did. I advocate for that. But unless and until we do, I will not be told that I must suffer for other’s beliefs.
====================================================================
But it’s ok if others suffer for Your beliefs.
One thing I find perplexing, is why, when bush is to leave office in a few months, is he still trying to consolidate power to the presidents office?
Both Repub. and dem. congressmen see this as outrageous power grab.
We know you don’t care, Max.
Too bad Max. Looks like McCain got more of that money than Obama.
Makes you look really bad on your “evidence” of whatever it is you think you need evidence for.
:-)
Too bad Max. Looks like McCain got more of that money than Obama.
Makes you look really bad on your “evidence” of whatever it is you think you need evidence for.
:-)
Well, since it was a double, I’ll only call that one more, nine to go.
No one suffers because of MY beliefs “Max”.
Can you say the same?
Nine more what, HLP?
What’s to investigate, the Repubs. made it legal to rape the unsuspecting public, and thrust us into this quagmire. Even nailing down the cause (which many of us have been doing this last week) will not reveal any illegal actions, unethical, yes, but thanks to the deregulating mavericks, not illegal.
Richard H. Davis is the chief executive officer of the John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. For years, Rick Davis served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that defended the two companies against increased regulation.
At least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied on behalf of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, netting at least $12.3 million in fees over the past nine years.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Davis_(politics)
Eight more.
hehehe
Dynamite stolen from a quarry in Eldorado over the weekend. Seems the Rw is at it again! Maybe getting ready for the bush anarchy times.
HLP appears to be in a meltdown. What are you counting here?
hehehe
Seven more. Apophis feigned ignorance just before he left for good.
NINE.
Oh sorry Hank, didn’t know you were counting down backwards.
Ok, Seven.
http://wilstar.com/bushcountdown.htm
Does he ignite at THREE and
BLASTOFF at ZERO?
“I would hope they would hand me a gun and allow me to preserve my dignity.”
___________________________________________________
Thinks he can ‘preserve his dignity’ and he’s so sorry he can’t even provide his own gun.
nitwit
Boy, real impressive “adult” behavior on the open threads the last few days. Shaking my head…
Night all, it’s been fun.
Since we do not have a better choice in America…. Pills and a plastic sack is the method of choice.. less muss and fuss.. more reliable too.
I think Max and HLP have blown a gasket. This is sad. But when I look upthread, and read Max’s total lunacy, it makes perfect sense – Max is just plain nuts!
That’s why I often refer to him as Mad Max.
“Thinks he can ‘preserve his dignity’ and he’s so sorry he can’t even provide his own gun.
nitwit”
Your wife buys yours. Kept man.
Well, it looks like his keepers should go get him, and put him back in his padded room for the night, and give him his nightly meds. :-)
Mortgage Bankers & Brokers: Top Recipients
1 Obama, Barack (D) Senate $278,937
2 Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) Senate $273,415
3 Romney, Mitt (R) $166,100
4 Dodd, Christopher J (D-CT) Senate $135,450
5 McCain, John (R) Senate $133,475
6 Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) $116,600
7 Frank, Barney (D-MA) House $56,301
8 Bean, Melissa (D-IL) House $41,599
9 Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) House $38,250
10 Cantor, Eric (R-VA) House $37,900
11 Richardson, Bill (D) $37,400
12 Reed, Jack (D-RI) Senate $36,500
13 Bachus, Spencer (R-AL) House $35,500
14 Israel, Steve (D-NY) House $32,950
15 McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) Senate $32,800
16 Cornyn, John (R-TX) Senate $32,300
17 Boehner, John (R-OH) House $29,500
18 McHenry, Patrick (R-NC) House $29,050
19 Moore, Dennis (D-KS) House $28,500
20 Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA) House $27,500
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?ind=F4600&cycle=2008&recipdetail=A&sortorder=U
Once more for effect:
Richard H. Davis is the chief executive officer of the John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. For years, Rick Davis served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that defended the two companies against increased regulation.
DavidB
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:17 pm | Permalink
John McCain received $169,000 from Fannie and Freddie for his 2008 campaign
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/help-is-on-the-way-for-embattl.html
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Doesn’t show this on your link David. You got a link that shows this figure?
not easily given to fear…
“Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”
This phrase in the bail out document scares me.
Well, Max, have fun talking to yourselves!
Be nice to your keepers, or they wont let you Blog again tomorrow!
All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008
Name Office State Party Grand Total Total from
PACs Total from
Individuals
Dodd, Christopher J S CT D $165,400 $48,500 $116,900
Obama, Barack S IL D $126,349 $6,000 $120,349
Kerry, John S MA D $111,000 $2,000 $109,000
Bennett, Robert F S UT R $107,999 $71,499 $36,500
Bachus, Spencer H AL R $103,300 $70,500 $32,800
Blunt, Roy H MO R $96,950 $78,500 $18,450
Kanjorski, Paul E H PA D $96,000 $57,500 $38,500
Bond, Christopher S ‘Kit’ S MO R $95,400 $64,000 $31,400
Shelby, Richard C S AL R $80,000 $23,000 $57,000
Reed, Jack S RI D $78,250 $43,500 $34,750
Reid, Harry S NV D $77,000 $60,500 $16,500
Clinton, Hillary S NY D $76,050 $8,000 $68,050
Davis, Tom H VA R $75,499 $13,999 $61,500
Boehner, John H OH R $67,750 $60,500 $7,250
Conrad, Kent S ND D $64,491 $22,000 $42,491
Reynolds, Tom H NY R $62,200 $53,000 $9,200
Johnson, Tim S SD D $61,000 $20,000 $41,000
Pelosi, Nancy H CA D $56,250 $47,000 $9,250
Carper, Tom S DE D $55,889 $31,350 $24,539
Hoyer, Steny H H MD D $55,500 $51,500 $4,000
Pryce, Deborah H OH R $55,500 $45,000 $10,500
Emanuel, Rahm H IL D $51,750 $16,000 $35,750
Isakson, Johnny S GA R $49,200 $35,500 $13,700
Cantor, Eric H VA R $48,500 $46,500 $2,000
Crapo, Mike S ID R $47,250 $40,500 $6,750
Frank, Barney H MA D $42,350 $30,500 $11,850
Bean, Melissa H IL D $41,249 $34,999 $6,250
Bayh, Evan S IN D $41,100 $16,500 $24,600
McConnell, Mitch S KY R $41,000 $40,000 $1,000
Maloney, Carolyn B H NY D $39,750 $16,500 $23,250
Dorgan, Byron L S ND D $38,750 $30,500 $8,250
Miller, Gary H CA R $38,000 $31,500 $6,500
Rangel, Charles B H NY D $38,000 $14,750 $23,250
Tiberi, Patrick J H OH R $35,700 $32,600 $3,100
Bunning, Jim S KY R $33,802 $29,650 $4,152
Stabenow, Debbie S MI D $33,450 $32,000 $1,450
Chambliss, Saxby S GA R $33,250 $22,500 $10,750
Menendez, Robert S NJ D $31,250 $30,500 $750
Enzi, Mike S WY R $31,000 $27,500 $3,500
Van Hollen, Chris H MD D $30,700 $11,000 $19,700
Landrieu, Mary L S LA D $30,600 $20,000 $10,600
Murray, Patty S WA D $30,000 $23,000 $7,000
Clyburn, James E H SC D $29,750 $26,000 $3,750
Crowley, Joseph H NY D $29,700 $25,500 $4,200
Sessions, Pete H TX R $29,472 $24,000 $5,472
McCrery, Jim H LA R $29,000 $26,000 $3,000
Hooley, Darlene H OR D $28,750 $19,500 $9,250
Royce, Ed H CA R $28,600 $4,000 $24,600
Renzi, Rick H AZ R $28,250 $28,000 $250
Lieberman, Joe S CT I $28,250 $11,500 $16,750
Baucus, Max S MT D $27,500 $21,000 $6,500
Moore, Dennis H KS D $26,550 $25,500 $1,050
Coleman, Norm S MN R $24,690 $12,000 $12,690
Matheson, Jim H UT D $24,500 $24,000 $500
Schumer, Charles E S NY D $24,250 $1,500 $22,750
Durbin, Dick S IL D $23,750 $14,000 $9,750
Rogers, Mike H MI R $22,750 $21,000 $1,750
Lynch, Stephen F H MA D $22,500 $13,500 $9,000
Rockefeller, Jay S WV D $22,250 $5,000 $17,250
Smith, Gordon H S OR R $22,000 $20,000 $2,000
Mikulski, Barbara A S MD D $21,750 $16,500 $5,250
McCain, John S AZ R $21,550 $0 $21,550
(More are shown who received less then McCain)
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html
DavidB
Posted September 22, 2008 at 10:17 pm | Permalink
John McCain received $169,000 from Fannie and Freddie for his 2008 campaign
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/help-is-on-the-way-for-embattl.html
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ONCE MORE FOR EFFECT:
Doesn’t show this on your link David. You got a link that shows this figure?
McCain’s list includes at least 69 individuals who, according to his campaign, have raised a total of at least $11.4 million for his campaign. That makes the struggling investment industry his top source of bundlers. (Bundlers are those wealthy individuals who hit up their coworkers, family and friends to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, in addition to any contributions from their own pockets.) In the second spot is the real estate industry, where at least 55 individuals have delivered a total of $9.5 million or more to McCain. Overall, bundlers in the finance, insurance and real estate sector have hauled in at least $30 million for the Republican candidate — far more than any other sector.
Obama’s list gives the appearance that he has not leaned so heavily on bundlers working on Wall Street, although since his campaign has ignored repeated requests from the Center for Responsive Politics and other watchdog groups to disclose his bundlers’ employers and occupations, these figures are probably undercounts. The securities and investment industry is Obama’s second-largest source of bundlers, after lawyers, and at least 56 individuals have raised at least $8.9 million for his campaign. Bundlers in the larger finance, insurance and real estate sector have collected at least $13.4 million for Obama, making it his most generous sector.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/bundlers-for-mccain-obama-are.html
Obama’s list gives the appearance that he has not leaned so heavily on bundlers working on Wall Street, although since his campaign has ignored repeated requests from the Center for Responsive Politics and other watchdog groups to disclose his bundlers’ employers and occupations, these figures are probably undercounts.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/bundlers-for-mccain-obama-are.html
(Pssst…Obama, HIDE IT!)
Again, NO NEED for a Congressional Investigation into the $700 Billion Bailout!
“John McCain received $169,000 from Fannie and Freddie for his 2008 campaign”
Fannie and Freddie cannot directly contribute, of course. They do it through indivuduals or PACS…
It is contained in the story:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/19/fact-check-did-obama-profit-from-fannie-and-freddie/
This accounting includes contributions from “directors, officers, and lobbyists for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac” for the 2008 campaign cycle, using figures from the Federal Election Commission.
I posted a wrong link.. oops.
Is everyone convinced that $700 Billion must be given away NOW!?
What is the secret of the Urgency? Is Congress paying off a bribe? Why can’t Congress tell the People why it is spending $700 Billion of the People’s money?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-bailout-congresssep22,0,5078627.story
When Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke explained the urgency of the situation in a private evening session for congressional leaders last week, Dodd said, “There was a pause for about 10 seconds. … The air went out of the room.”
And in a fresh sign of a challenging road ahead, Sen. Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, the top Banking Committee Republican, blasted the emerging plan as “neither workable nor comprehensive.”
“In my judgment, it would be foolish to waste massive sums of taxpayer funds testing an idea that has been hastily crafted and may actually cause the government to revert to an inadequate strategy of ad hoc bailouts,” Shelby said.
Lawmakers on both extremes of the political spectrum assailed the plan as a massive, poorly conceived bailout. Conservative House Republicans and liberal House Democrats both and huddled privately to express their concerns.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94862528&ft=1&f=1003
I have to admit, it is a perfect plan.
Bankrupt the country, then hand it over to the Democrats…
Nice summary of other articles, doubts about THE Plan:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_080922.htm
Monday, September 22, 2008
WASHINGTON NEWS
Split Emerging Over Financial Bailout
Wow! For once I agree with the NY Times?!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/opinion/23tue1.html?hp
But it is essential that Congress takes the time to get the bailout right, even if it cuts into lawmakers’ campaigning.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson must craft and execute the bailout in a way that persuades Wall Street and the global financial system that they will be saved while protecting the American taxpayers’ $700 billion investment. Balancing those complex mandates is made more difficult by the fact that Mr. Paulson hails from Wall Street and could, if he wanted to, return to Wall Street.
The only way to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest is for Mr. Paulson to welcome full and transparent legislative and judicial review.
A counterproposal now being developed by the Democrats would require firms that sell their troubled assets to the Treasury to give the government stock — an idea that has populist appeal but also needs to be vetted carefully. It also would try to help homeowners, who are left out of the administration’s plan entirely, allowing them to have their mortgages modified under bankruptcy court protection. That step that should have been taken long ago to avert the foreclosures and house price declines that are at the root of the crisis.
Senator Christopher Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, is also calling for an oversight board of federal officials and other experts. We believe that is still not enough. But all of the competing proposals provide interesting starts for a serious debate.
There is time to have it.
It IS perfect.
Perfectly evil.
Just as outlined in Thomas Frank’s book “The Wrecking Crew” the cons explode the debt.
They then use that debt to justify killing social and other governmental programs and hand us all into the merciless hand of business.
Give me a choice of government or business? I choose government every time.
That’s funny David, YOUR links shows 2 sets of “facts”.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/19/fact-check-did-obama-profit-from-fannie-and-freddie/
The total listed for Obama is $126,349 — a tiny fraction of the approximately $390 million his campaign has raised, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. The list shows McCain has received a total of $21,550 from Fannie and Freddie employees. The list includes donations of at least $200 from those who receive paychecks from Fannie and Freddie. It also includes donations from political action committees — pooled contributions from employees. Obama decided early in his presidential run not to accept PAC contributions, but the Center for Responsive Politics’ list includes all contributions for members of Congress dating back to 1989 — including Obama and McCain’s Senate campaigns.
The New York Times has published a separate list looking at contributions from “directors, officers, and lobbyists for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac” for the 2008 campaign cycle. That list — using figures from the Federal Election Commission — shows McCain receiving $169,000, while Obama received only $16,000.
Bringing Down’s babies into THIS world is no kindness. They are a lifelong commitment.-bLUE jAY
Shouldn’t the choice of whether or not to bring the child into the world be left to the parents? Seems to me like you are saying if the child is abnormal abort it.
A good number of people with Downs live fairly independent lives and need only minimal supervision. So tell me Blue jay why are you against these people having a chance to live their lives to the fullest?
“So tell me Blue jay why are you against these people having a chance to live their lives to the fullest?”
I’m not.
But our society does not support that.
Sarah Palin and her husband had the ample resources of the American taxpayer to bring to their decision.
Sarah has said that husband Todd would have a buddy for the rest of his life.
But what happens to Trig when Todd and Sarah are dead?
Sarah Palin and her husband had a choice, just as I did.
I do not have the resources that Sarah and Todd have. I made a different choice.
Sarah Palin would take that away from everyone.
I apologize for misreading your statement. I agree the she wants choice taken away from women. Personally I’m against abortion however it is not my place to tell a woman what to do in the situation she finds her self in.
Nor should it be anyone elses.
Unfortunately, JR..no one will hand you a gun so you can “preserve your dignity.” You better hope that someone has more compassion than you do…otherwise you’ll be going through hell if you live to be old.
You really need to step outside you narrow world more. I know families with disabled children who don’t consider them a burden at all…in fact they have more capacity for love because of their child.
Like isn’t perfect, people aren’t perfect…it’s those who think everything has to be perfect that are the burden.