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306 Comments
What’s this in the EAGLE this AM … 6% of the Wichita Eagle’s work force laid off?
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/532275.html
I really hope they talk about this.
Because wasn’t it the Concealed carry people who said that such a bill would make crime rates go down?
I told you so. It was a lie.
Poverty creates stress and hopelessness which leads to more drinking, drugs, theft.
“Because wasn’t it the Concealed carry people who said that such a bill would make crime rates go down?”
________________________________________________
No, P-mom, not really. I don’t care about over all violent crime rates, other than when they increase it gives me more of a reason to carry concealed.
I wanted CCH to protect me. When the violent crime rates go up that is more of a reason to carry to protect me and mine.
On the other hand, none of the terrible things the libs were concerned about if we were allowed to protect ourselves has happened.
Nice try though!
Yes it has Hank. There was already an incident in Topeka where a CC carrier shot someone and it was questionable on whether or not it was legal.
The person was fleeing after robbing a store. You don’t shoot someone unless you are protecting someone- and obviously, that person was fleeing so they were not a danger at that time.
And yes, the gun crazies all said that the crime rates would go down if concealed carry became legal. You lied.
The NRA lies.
P-mom
Wonder what percentage of that crime increase comes to us courtesy of our fine neighbors to the south? (no, not Oklahoma)
More RTC, less crime: Violent crime rates since 2003 have been lower than anytime since the mid-1970s.1 Since 1991, 23 states have adopted RTC, the number of privately-owned guns has risen by nearly 70 million,2 and violent crime is down 38%. In 2006, the most recent year for which complete data are available, RTC states had lower violent crime rates, on average, compared to the rest of the country (total violent crime by 26%; murder, 31%; robbery, 50%; and aggravated assault, 15%).3
• RTC and crime trends: Studying crime trends in every county in the U.S., John Lott and David Mustard found, “allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have Right to Carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly….[W]hen state concealed handgun laws went into effect in a county, murders fell by 8.5 percent, and rapes and aggravated assaults fell by 5 and 7 percent.”4
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=18
I wonder if they’ll change their fact sheet? I doubt it.
it doesn’t matter heckler, but nice red herring argument.
WHenever something doesn’t go your way, by all means, blame the Mexicans.
“There was already an incident in Topeka where a CC carrier shot someone and it was questionable on whether or not it was legal.”
_____________________________________________
Really? When did this happen? Link?
_____________________________________________
“And yes, the gun crazies all said that the crime rates would go down if concealed carry became legal. You lied.”
_____________________________________________
Really? When did I lie?
P-mom
So our increased crime is because of Concealed Carry in Kansas?
“I wonder if they’ll change their fact sheet? I doubt it.”
________________________________________________
My heavens, woman! You are dense! Change their fact sheet? You posted information that supports CCH rights!
I’m sorry, other than in your twisted mind, there is no connection between the article on crime rates you linked to and the recent CCH law.
“McCain, Obama Seek Political Foothold With Wall Street Battered
By Alison Fitzgerald and Christopher Stern
More Photos/Details
Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) — John McCain and Barack Obama are both calling for tougher financial regulations as Wall Street faces its deepest crisis since the Depression. Yet Obama’s record in this area is thin, and McCain has spent most of his quarter- century in Congress advocating deregulation.
A day after Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. went bankrupt, McCain and Obama laid out plans to clamp down on financial markets by tightening oversight and enforcement, and modernizing the far-flung, 1930s-era regulatory structure.
While Democrat Obama, unlike Republican McCain, was calling for tougher regulations well before Lehman and Bear Stearns Cos. collapsed, neither candidate has led Senate committees overseeing finance, so their legislative achievements are limited.
“McCain is deregulatory, and Obama really doesn’t have a track record,” said Tom Gallagher, head of policy research at the International Strategy and Investment Group in Washington. “You fall back to the stance of the two parties, and that more naturally favors the Democrats.”
Obama, speaking yesterday in Golden, Colorado, tied McCain to the policies of the last eight years. “Senator McCain’s approach was the same as the Bush administration’s — support ideological policies that made the crisis more likely, do nothing as the crisis hits and then scramble as the whole thing collapses,” said Obama, 47, an Illinois senator.
McCain, 72, who calls himself a “deregulator” and argued in February for the need to “keep government out of these issues and policies,” is proposing new market supervision.
`Casual Oversight’
“Too many firms on Wall Street have been able to count on casual oversight by regulatory agencies and government,” he said at an event in Tampa, Florida. “Under my reforms, the American people will be protected by comprehensive regulations that will apply the rules and enforce them in full.”
The Arizona senator is proposing measures such as a “safety and soundness regulator for every financial institution,” according to Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a top economic adviser.
McCain has said financial regulators are too fractured and don’t reflect the nature of today’s industry, describing them as “caught up in Washington turf wars.”
His campaign said McCain was ahead of the curve in warning about the risk presented by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, cosponsoring a bill in 2003 to create a new supervisor for the privately held, government-sponsored mortgage-lending giants that were seized by the federal government earlier this month.
`Disgraceful’ CEO Pay
And he has criticized Wall Street chief executive officers as “disgraceful” for “making off with tens of millions in severance.”
Last year, though, he opposed a measure passed by the U.S. House that would have allowed shareholders to hold nonbinding votes on executive pay.
McCain campaign spokesman Michael Goldfarb said yesterday that any “legislative solution will quickly be circumvented” by companies, so McCain “has sought to use the bully pulpit to encourage shareholders to take control of the situation.”
Obama introduced a similar bill in the Senate that never came to a vote.
Carly Fiorina, another McCain economic adviser, said in a 2006 interview that government shouldn’t interfere in executive compensation. “I certainly don’t think regulation is the way to go,” she said. When Fiorina was ousted as CEO of Hewlett-Packard Co. in 2005 the company reported paying her a severance package of more than $21 million.
Deregulating Industry
In 1999, McCain supported comprehensive legislation deregulating the financial-services industry, including the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial and investment banking and was one of the hallmarks of President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal economic program. While that allowed banks and securities firms to compete more directly, critics say it led to excesses because it wasn’t replaced by a new law reflecting changes in financial markets.
McCain also supported a law that deregulated derivatives trading and exempted energy trading from oversight. And he backed a federal law that preempts state laws, some of which are stringent, against anti-predatory lending.
In recent years, McCain supported 2005 bankruptcy-overhaul legislation, an industry-backed bill that made it harder for some people to discharge their debt. Obama voted against it.
Obama has been in the Senate since just 2005, so he wasn’t around for many of the pivotal debates over financial deregulation throughout the years.
He touts Senate legislation he introduced in 2006 to clamp down on fraudulent or risky mortgages as evidence that he pushed regulations aimed at preventing “this turmoil from occurring in the first place.”
Power to Fed
In a March speech, he called for giving the Federal Reserve greater supervisory authority when it acts as a lender of last resort, strengthening the capital requirements for financial companies, and streamlining the collection of overlapping regulatory agencies that oversee Wall Street.
McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said in a statement after Obama’s speech that the Illinois senator is endorsing the “failed liberal policies of the past.”
In the current environment, though, those policies are looking more appealing, even to McCain who also called for streamlining regulation and appointing a central oversight agency.
“If you’re in favor of stronger regulation, you’re likely to want to favor Mr. Obama,” said Edwin Truman, a former assistant U.S. Treasury secretary.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqwxDPvmIvDc&refer=home
Emphasis added, obviously.
“There was already an incident in Topeka where a CC carrier shot someone and it was questionable on whether or not it was legal.”
_____________________________________________
Really? When did this happen? Link?
JWink Posted September 17, 2008 at 6:05 am |
“What’s this in the EAGLE this AM … 6% of the Wichita Eagle’s work force laid off?”
JWink,
Where did you see this? I didn’t pick it up online, but then I’m still asleep I think.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=18
I wonder if they’ll change their fact sheet? I doubt it.
________________________________________________
Tell me, P-mom, which one of the facts in this link are false and need to be changed?
“There was already an incident in Topeka where a CC carrier shot someone and it was questionable on whether or not it was legal.”
_____________________________________________
Really? When did this happen? Link?
_____________________________________________
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=18
I wonder if they’ll change their fact sheet? I doubt it.
________________________________________________
Tell me, P-mom, which one of the facts in this link are false and need to be changed?
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
You call me a liar, you call the NRA a liar and your whole life is a lie.
Time will tell…the one thing we know for sure is that whenever you have more people with guns, then the rate of guns deaths go up.
Ask any law enforcement agancy and they’ll tell
you it’s true…that’s why the DC police were against the repeal of the hand gun band there.
I think we should have stricter laws regarding guns…and they should be registered.
Over 30,000 people die each year in this country due to gun violence..many more than in other industrialized countries.
Off to work, have a good one y’all!
The NRA twist the facts to suit their agenda, and the study by Lott and Mustard was based on flawed data…that’s reality.
Rage
“John McCain cosponsored a bill in 2005 to create an oversight board for Fannie May and Freddie Mac because he saw warning signs of trouble. He cosponsored the FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005. In words that now sound like prophecy, McCain said: “I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.” Unfortunately, the bill was blocked by democrats who complained that the oversight would prevent lenders from giving out risky loans to those who couldn’t afford them, and the bill was killed. Read about it at “http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16
The gun lobby claims that only law-abiding citizens get CCW permits. But an August 2000 study by the Violence Policy Center revealed that, from January 1996 through April 2000, the arrest rate for weapon-related offenses among Texas concealed handgun license holders was 66% higher than that of the general adult population of Texas. CCW license holders are committing crimes – including murder, rape, assault and burglary – but because the gun lobby makes it difficult if not impossible for the public to determine if a shooter has a CCW license in most states, the full story has not yet been told.
Time will tell…the one thing we know for sure is that whenever you have more people with guns, then the rate of guns deaths go up.
_________________________________________________
Really, Mary? That statement is not supported by any facts. Hell, it’s not even supported by the article in question.
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
Ask any law enforcement agancy and they’ll tell
you it’s true…that’s why the DC police were against the repeal of the hand gun band there.
_________________________________________________
Really, Mary? Have you compared the gun related deaths in DC with those in Wichita lately? Do you actually believe you would be safer in DC (or South Chicago) than in Wichita where CCH is allowed?
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
I think we should have stricter laws regarding guns…and they should be registered.
_________________________________________________
Of course you do! For no rational reason that you can bring to the discussion though.
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
Over 30,000 people die each year in this country due to gun violence..many more than in other industrialized countries.
_________________________________________________
No better reason for allowing citizens CCH legislation! You make my case!
Mary
“the one thing we know for sure is that whenever you have more people with guns, then the rate of guns deaths go up.”
Show me the data.
The rate of lawful gun ownership in this country is higher than it’s been in decades. The number of law abiding citizens carrying guns for personal protection is higher than it’s been in decades. By your reasoning we should be suffering a blood bath of historical proportion.
But we are not. You are full of crap.
“that’s why the DC police were against the repeal of the hand gun band there.”
How would they know, the only people in DC with guns are cops and criminals. Which ones are doing the crimes?
Your reasoning is so weak a third grader could blow it away.
“the one thing we know for sure is that whenever you have more people with guns, then the rate of guns deaths go up.”
Tell it to the Brits, they banned pretty much all guns and they are in the grip of a historic violent crime wave.
Annie
Your entire post is a lie. Lordy but you swallowed the VPC’s crap in one big gulp. And smiled too. This load of VPC crap has been debunked repeatedly here on WeBlog. Get over it.
You can go yourself to the Texas website that has the stats from the first 5 years of CCW in Texas. You will find that the violent crime rate of Texans with CCW permits was about 1/100th of the crime rate of the population at large.
If believe it’s the Texas Department of Public Safety.
Not surprising to me that the most despicable of people are ever afraid for their lives. Perhaps they should try to be better people instead of clinging to their guns.
Well, let’s see,
P-mom, hit and run. Lies, calls others liars then runs.
Mary, hit and run. Brings nothing to the discussion but hysterical, biased opinion unable to be backed by facts.
Annie, hit and run. Has a post really too stupid to respond to.
Just another normal day in liberal land!
Lordy but you swallowed the VPC’s crap in one big gulp. And smiled too.
from ear to ear
Next your going to tell me Ted Haggart is straight- the earth is 6000 years old- the next ice age is upon us.
Yep, junior, I got a bumper sticker that says I’m a ‘bitter clinger’. (and I vote)
hehehe
B.J.
Pusillanimous. Synomynous with J.R.
Why is Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, who works for, and at the pleasure of, the taxpayers of Kansas off, out of the State, campaigning for Obamination while being paid with our tax dollars?
annie
Go to the Texas state website yourself. You’ll see for yourself the stats.
…or would that screw with your sense of well being and moral superiority?
Next your going to tell me Ted Haggart is straight- the earth is 6000 years old- the next ice age is upon us.
_________________________________________________
hehehe
I don’t know about dear old Ted, nothing worse than a queer, unless he’s a liberal.
The earth is at least 8,000 years old.
Don’t you think it’s getting a little cooler?
hehehe
Oh my mistake. They’ve updated the Texas cite through 2006. Haven’t been there in a couple of years.
another day another bailout
NEW YORK -
Shares of insurer American International Group Inc. sunk in premarket trading Wednesday, hours after the U.S. Government stepped in and provided the insurer with an $85 billion loan to help keep it in business.
AIG (nyse: AIG – news – people ) shares fell 20 percent, or 75 cents, to $3 in premarket trading. Shares closed Tuesday at $3.75.
AIG, one of the world’s largest insurers, teetered on the brink of bankruptcy early this week as it looked for fresh cash to help shore up its balance sheet, which was facing a liquidity crunch amid the continued downturn in the credit markets.
As part of the deal, the Federal Reserve will provide AIG with a two-year, $85 billion loan. In return, the government will get a 79.9 percent stake in AIG and the ability to remove senior management.
It is unclear what will happen to current shareholders, but that stake will likely be reduced to the 20.1 percent the government does not own.
AIG said late Tuesday it anticipates repaying the loan with the proceeds from asset sales.
or would that screw with your sense of well being and moral superiority?
well being is fine– sun is shining– caught up on my chores….
moral superiority—-ROFL
I have been pretty neutral on the concealed carry issue…but after last week, have changed my mind and will apply for one.
I was walking my dog and a stray pitbull appeared out of nowhere…trying to get to my dog. I picked him up and the pit started snarling at me. With a stick I was able to keep some distance between us until I got home..and the pitbull followed me to my front door.
Animal control did come and get it, but I feel lucky to have gotten away from that dog. I found myself wishing I had been armed. Although I love animals, I would have shot that thing that was threatening both myself and my dog.
No need to ask pmom to support her remarks about the Topeka incident. She cannot back it up.
It actually occured shortly after CC was passed and it was a man from Oklahoma that saved the live of a store clerk.
Where she gets the running from is pure BS. It all happened in the store. If the CC person had not been there the store clerk would probably be dead.
This is the only story I am aware of at this time.
Hank, WTF?
“I don’t know about dear old Ted, nothing worse than a queer, unless he’s a liberal.”
Awwwwwww. And I thought you were inexplicably fond of me…
Watch it, or I’ll have my puppy bite your ass with her EXTREMELY sharp puppy teeth!
My kids would like for me to apply for a Conceal and Carry permit. I deal with potential violent situations quite often, but I’m still not sure how I feel about carrying a firearm. For one.. it could possibly escalate a situation. Secondly, it would feel a bit odd spreading the love of Jesus… while carrying a gun! I do admit there have been times when I doubted my prayers for protection….. but arm myself.. I think not.
Come on farm girl, you’re liberal! You’re OK.
Besides, it’s not an inexplicable fondness, I can explain it. You walk your talk!
How is your puppy? Mine has big girl grownup teeth now!
samkan,
I’m not trying to encourage you either way, to carry or not is strictly a personal decision but remember:
Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors’ ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)
Heh Hank. I’m completely in love with this puppy. She’s so damn cute and funny. And growing. Holy cow, if she grows into those feet, I’m in BIG trouble! She still has puppy breath and puppy teeth, which she sharpens on my flesh daily. In spite of all the NO BITE! warnings.
I also am reminded, daily, that I was 16 years younger the last time I took on raising a puppy. She just wears my old butt OUT! But then, she gives me one of those cute puppy looks… and…
I’m in love all over again!
Would that women were so simple…
From what I’ve read, mccain’s 2005 bill is totally unrelated to the problems of the mortgage crisis, other than it would have taken fannie and freddie into receivorship at the point their books became insolvent, or some other trigger. Wouldn’t have stopped anything.
Dow back where is was in Jan 2001, Mccain says economy fundamentally sound.
You’re right Boxlock, Christianity is a violent religion.
Mccain voted to repeal the Glass-Stegal act that could’ve/would’ve prevented the current crisis. The repeal passed along party lines/ Repubs. passed it. Clinton allowed it.
Some more about McCain. McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear reactors. The construction will be financed by the taxpayer with a huge $315 billion in earmarks for the projects.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aRkagygu04Ks&refer=us
McCain campaigns against earmarks so naturally, being the conservative he is, he really supports massive earmarks.
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:06 am | Permalink
Some more about McCain. McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear reactors. The construction will be financed by the taxpayer with a huge $315 billion in earmarks for the projects.
—————————
It’s a very wise investment. Much better than to keep sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Oil States.
“It’s a very wise investment. Much better than to keep sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Oil States.”
You should work for Bear Stearns. How is throwing billions of dollars of taxpayer money towards a system that produces an expensive sort of energy, generates radioactive waste, and relies on an expensive limited fuel source a good idea? Never mind, you’re a Republican, so you naturally don’t know much about being a fiscal conservative.
Maggot,
I think he was saying we have a right to protect ourselves, to self-defense.
It was nothing about religion.
Franklin, you never did retract your Biden voted for Glass-Steagal repeal, mccain didn’t vote comments:
From other thread posts:
Interesting just read that the Glass Stegal repeal vote actually took place 6 mo. before the one being linked to, and was passed almost entirely along party lines.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/16/203823/008/1013/601053
Phantom
Posted September 16, 2008 at 11:03 pm | Permalink
And, biden voted against it.
Phantom
Posted September 16, 2008 at 11:09 pm | Permalink
Wooo, and Mccain voted For it!
#
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:10 am | Permalink
“It’s a very wise investment. Much better than to keep sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Oil States.”
You should work for Bear Stearns. How is throwing billions of dollars of taxpayer money towards a system that produces an expensive sort of energy, generates radioactive waste, and relies on an expensive limited fuel source a good idea? Never mind, you’re a Republican, so you naturally don’t know much about being a fiscal conservative.
=====================
Sorry your stuck in the Dark Ages cuz. If it was up to you leftists, we still be stuck running steam powered ships instead of having nuclear fuel that can run for half a year at a time without refueling.
Is Ben a Republican too? He seems to be of the opinion that nuclear power is one of the best options for energy independence.
Just look at the country of idol for leftists and progressives, France. They run mostly on nuclear power for their energy needs to power their infrastructure. Are the French a bunch of Republicans?
You need to stop polishing Tiller’s incinerator Cuz, you’re breathing in way to much carbon-based soot.
“I think he was saying we have a right to protect ourselves, to self-defense.
It was nothing about religion.”
I know what it says and I know fanatics like to pick and choose what they like to follow. It also supports the notion that when there isn’t a god to protect you then a person must rely on godless means. And the truth is that faith always fails when applied to reality. Even your Bible says so as you have kindly pointed out.
Still the little matter (mccain’s plan) that the moratorium against nuke plants exists at the state level (Arizona, for one), and Repubs. believe in States Rights.
“Sorry your stuck in the Dark Ages cuz. If it was up to you leftists, we still be stuck running steam powered ships instead of having nuclear fuel that can run for half a year at a time without refueling.”
If it’s so great then why does it need to be subsidized by the taxpayers? Why won’t any private insurance business insure a nuclear reactor? The mere fact that the existence of the nuclear industry is reliant upon taxpayers proves it is worthless.
And the point that McCain isn’t really against earmarks is proven. Republicans lie, that’s all they know. And like McCain, you are too up on economic and energy issues either.
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:06 am | Permalink
Some more about McCain. McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear reactors. The construction will be financed by the taxpayer with a huge $315 billion in earmarks for the projects.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aRkagygu04Ks&refer=us
McCain campaigns against earmarks so naturally, being the conservative he is, he really supports massive earmarks.
————————————————–
From your post it doesn’t sound like you know what an earmark is?
I’m using the meaning McCain and Palin refer to.
Obama leading mccain by 2%, the shiney is starting to wear off of palin, or thanks, no thanks, is wearing thin.
According to palin, if it is for a specific project it’s an earmark, if you throw it in to the general fund, you can spend it anyway you want with no qualms.
Boxlock..
I understand that it would be allowed.. but I think this is one of those areas where I do not want to take God’s protection into my own hands. I’m much more likely to mess things up! But thanks for the comment:)
“Some more about McCain. McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear reactors.”
————
Excellent. That would be a great start toward energy independence. I wonder who builds nuke plant and whether they’re publicly traded? Better do some research.
McCain’s nuclear plan also relies on the denial of global warming. Nuclear reactors need a reliable supply of cool water to keep the reactor stable. This won’t work in the Southern states that experienced a drought and, thanks to global warming, there isn’t as much cool water available. Then again, in the midwest and southwest water supplies aren’t always reliable.
So McCain’s solution is to limit supplies even more by throwing 45 new, taxpayer supported, reactors onto the scene.
Add into the fact that 45 new reactors will mean more demand for uranium which will increase the global price. The cost will either be put onto the taxpayers or the people who have to get their power from the reactors.
Then again there will be the need for increased security since the waste is often stored on site. No surprise the taxpayer will foot this bill as well.
If there’s one thing McCain and Palin know, it’s how to burden the taxpayer.
Western Ks. could become ‘nuke central’ supply power to Oklahoma, Colorado, etc.
Just call it economic development.
McCain supports a greater role for nuclear power, saying, “As president, I will put the country on track to building 45 new reactors by 2030 so that we can meet our growing energy demand and reduce our emissions of greenhouse gases. Nuclear power is a proven, domestic, zero-emission source of energy and it is time to recommit to advancing our use of nuclear energy.”
Obama does not rule out nuclear power but looks towards developing, “A new generation of nuclear electric technologies that address cost, safety, waste disposal, and proliferation risks.”
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/sep2008/2008-09-16-02.asp
One candidate is very specific. One is very vague, which will either result in the same thing his opponent is proposing or nothing. Which is more of the same.
Doug… faith always prevails. And as usual you are wrong, Christianity is not violent, people are violent… sometimes those people are Christians, sometimes they are not!
#
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:25 am | Permalink
Then again there will be the need for increased security since the waste is often stored on site. No surprise the taxpayer will foot this bill as well.
—————————
Hey cuz, that’s more jobs.
You can give up your job at Tiller’s as an attack chihuahua and get a real job protecting the nation’s infrastructure. :D
“Doug… faith always prevails. And as usual you are wrong, Christianity is not violent, people are violent… sometimes those people are Christians, sometimes they are not!”
If faith always prevails then why are there hospitals?
Right KIA, it’s ‘fight with the Army you have’, not the Army you should have, could have.
“Hey cuz, that’s more jobs.”
It’s less jobs than if it was invested in actual green power.
Maybe later on McCain can come to some deeply-held conviction on the economy. Maybe when someone tells him where he is, what he should say…
—————–
ON TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16th:
McCain Says U.S. Should Let AIG Fail to Prevent `Moral Hazard’
Republican presidential nominee John McCain said the U.S. government should let American International Group Inc. fail to prevent the financial burden from being placed on taxpayers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3QsD0.948uc&refer=home
ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17th:
McCain Says Wall Street Was `Reckless’ in AIG Crisis
John McCain, shifting his position from a day ago, suggested the government’s $85 billion takeover of American International Group Inc. was unavoidable and he blamed “greed and excess” for the turmoil on Wall Street.
But there were literally millions of people whose retirement, whose investments, whose insurance were at risk here, and they were going to have their lives destroyed because of the greed and excess and corruption.”
Twenty-four hours earlier, McCain said in morning interviews that he didn’t want taxpayers to be “on the hook” for AIG. “We cannot have the taxpayers bail out AIG or anybody else,” McCain said yesterday on NBC’s “Today” show.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7FowtChvCYQ&refer=home
More fallout from the GREAT OWNERSHIP SOCIETY circa GWB, housing starts at 17.5 yr. low.
Not to worry, mccain says economy fundamentally sound.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080917/bs_nm/usa_economy_dc_2
One thing for certain, who ever inherits the fiasco GW is leaving behind, faces a monster of gigantic proportions and many heads. Mccain will feed the monster, Obama will try to slay it.
Phantom, our economy is great like McCain says. We’re just a bunch of whiners like his economic adviser, Phil Gramm (of banking deregulation fame) says.
Maggott
“If it’s so great then why does it need to be subsidized by the taxpayers? ”
Could say the same about wind power.
Hey, maybe Senator Roberts should volunteer to head up McCain’s “high-level connission, on the order of the one that investigated the Sept. 11 attacks…” He is the undisputed STONEWALL KING!
—————
McCain repeated his call for a high-level commission, on the order of the one that investigated the Sept. 11 attacks, to review the economic troubles on Wall Street. But when asked by ABC for examples of what he would do to deal with the current problems, McCain cited only the proposals he offered well before the crisis emerged _ no tax increases, affordable health care and energy alternatives among them.
In the interview, McCain called the financial crisis “one of the most severe crises in modern times,” yet on Monday morning he had maintained his oft-stated position that “the fundamentals of our economy are strong.”
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/17/mccain-softens-his-opposition-to-aig-bailout/
Russia signs treaty with their two Georgian outposts:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080917/wl_nm/georgia_ossetia_russia_agreement_dc_5
Linda, that’s a good idea, and people won’t even know there’s a problem, unless Roberts releases that info.!
That’s not misleading or anything.
Home ownership rates were up in q2 of 2008 and are just off by 1/10th of one-percent of all-time highs.
Wind power,in its infancy, Nuke power mature industry. Which should get subsidies?
excuse me that’s 1-percent off all time highs.
>If faith always prevails then why are there hospitals?
<
because God gave us that ability and knowledge. not everything is done supernaturally, as you well know!
1% off all time highs with a glut of empty houses. Have home valuses even stabilized yet across the nation?
“Could say the same about wind power.”
Not really. Wind power doesn’t receive subsidies for research, construction, insurance, etc. It receives a production tax credit so it only receives a subsidy for power actually produced, and those subsidies are temporary. For nuclear power the subsidies are permanent.
In comparison wind only receives about 1% of federal subsidies for energy with fossil fuels and nuclear receiving the most.
“because God gave us that ability and knowledge. not everything is done supernaturally, as you well know!”
Can you support that baseless claim with something other than faith? I’m glad to know that scientists go through years of education and research to know that god instantly bestows knowledge upon someone and they just wasted all their time.
Phantom
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:52 am | Permalink
1% off all time highs with a glut of empty houses. Have home valuses even stabilized yet across the nation?
—————————————————-
The coasts are getting killed no doubt about it.
I experienced this first hand in a Central Valley of California market.
Builders that either didn’t have any kind of forsight flooded markets with homes that did not have the population or the economies (jobs) to sustain the growth thinking the gravy train would never end.
Well guess what? It has.
Empty houses don’t mean people living in the streets with the houses empty. It means more houses than there is demand for.
Government shouldn’t be responsible for making up for every stupid business decision.
What are the libtards whining about?
Subsidies are funded by TAXPAYERS.
The AIG bailout will be funded by TAXPAYERS.
Major market indices at or below when bush originally took office nearly 8 yrs. ago.
How many presidents can say that?
Maybe Ike will give a little boosts to the housing market?
More empty houses, means downward pressure on values, which means more mortgage values will be under water, which means more will be empty.
“Wind power,in its infancy, Nuke power mature industry. Which should get subsidies?”
Wind power has been around for decades. The turbines have gotten better but the capital cost/output ratio still sucks. Nuclear power could produce ALL of our electricity needs. Wind power could never produce more than a tiny fraction of it.
And Anthropogenic global warming is a fraud. Someday you will be able to admit this to yourselves.
Phatass- mortgage values will be under water, which means more will be empty.
————————————
So when houses are cheap, nobody buys them….
Yeah, thats a problem.
Phantom
Posted September 17, 2008 at 11:02 am | Permalink
More empty houses, means downward pressure on values, which means more mortgage values will be under water, which means more will be empty.
—————————————————-
You’re right. Because people with 100% financing who are upside down and have not a cent invested in their home walk away, taking the hit on their credit for a few years, no questions asked.
It’s not a Government issue. Fed sets interest rates sure. Banks set the practices.
Got problems when a teleprompter is not available?:
http://www.citizenlink.org/Stoplight/A000008026.cfm
Maybe later on McCain can come to some deeply-held conviction on the economy. Maybe when someone tells him where he is, what he should say…
Good catch, Linda. In a different situation, it might be funny, but I’m not laughing. . .
A new nuke plant costs two to four times as much per kilowatt generated as any other kind of power.
Let’s see, wasn’t it Bill Clinton who had the idea and set the policies in place so that “everyone” could afford a house?
Are not the current leadership of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and other similar institutions, former Clinton Administration personnel and other Democrats?
Let’s see now. Who is the second leading person to recieve campaign contributions from Lehman Brothers since 1998?
Hint: BO
What did BO do as a US Senator to fix the sub-prime problems?
Doug… same old arguments. Requiring physical proof of a supernatural God denies His very power. No, that is not required of believers, only non-believers!
Just because God gives someone abilities and knowledge does not mean they automatically become a doctor. Come on Doug.. you know better!! God COULD do that, but he doesn’t work that way!
Tell me.. if faith ALWAYS FAILS.. then why are there so many more faithful than faithless. Doesn’t it seem that people would eventually “evolve” away from faith?
Samkan, you made the claim. As a typically dishonest fundy you can’t support the claims you make. I guess that just makes you a liar, which is status quo for fundies.
Don’t worry about the folks on Wall Street losing their jobs over the huge stock collapse. If they need jobs they can work for the McCain campaign. McCain employs 83 Wall Street lobbyists on his campaign team.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_team_includes_83_Wall_Street_0917.html
I’m sure they are all working really hard for McCain in order to benefit the American people and not the businesses they are employed with. Yeah, if you believe that I have a bridge in Alaska I can sell you.
Maggot, did your daddy not love you enough? You should seek therapy for your hate towards others(Christians). Or perhaps you could convince BJ to join your lifestyle and roll in your hate for most everything around you together. A fruitless union among two hate filled people, wouldn’t it be great Maggot?
Here’s one for the religion inspired violence file. Fundies are just too dangerous.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26567167/
MOUNT VERNON, Wash. – “I kill for God. I listen to God,” a man accused of a northwest Washington shooting rampage said Friday at a hearing where six charges of first-degree murder and four of first-degree assault were filed against him.
Isaac Zamora made the chilling comment twice at the brief hearing in Skagit County District Court while investigators wrapped up their work at eight crime scenes. The 28-year-old is being held on $5 million bail in the wake of Tuesday’s rampage, which left six people dead and four injured.
Anti, you love murderers and liars? Yeah, I would expect such morals from fundies. I don’t need to apologize for hating immoral fundies, but they are clearly values you embrace.
Doug….
thanks for the compliment.. Jesus said we would be hated so you just confirm more of what He said.
No Doug… I don’t lie.. and I don’t fall for your pitiful traps.. but true to form, when you can’t answer, you resort to personal attacks. And, knowing what’s coming next since you are so predictable… I’m NOT whining about it.. I couldn’t care less if you think I lie or not. God knows the truth… and YOU are not God!
Maggotpuke- “Isaac Zamora” from “northwest Washington”
————————-
another product of liberalism.
Samkan, you clearly lied and you lie again to cover up your lie. I suppose your statement is an indication that Zamora, who says he listens to god and kills for god is a justification for his actions. He’s being put in jail, therefore, being hated, for acting on his religious beliefs. So you justified his murder spree.
Yes, you fundies are dangerous to society.
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 11:33 am | Permalink
Anti, you love murderers and liars? Yeah, I would expect such morals from fundies. I don’t need to apologize for hating immoral fundies, but they are clearly values you embrace.
===========
Maggot, clearly in your mind you see no difference between a few nut jobs and the Christian religion as a whole….There is a word for that, bigot.
“Maggotpuke- “Isaac Zamora” from “northwest Washington”
————————-
another product of liberalism.”
It’s the same state Pat Robertson won in the primary against George Bush the smarter.
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 11:32 am | Permalink
Here’s one for the religion inspired violence file. Fundies are just too dangerous.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26567167/
MOUNT VERNON, Wash. – “I kill for God. I listen to God,” a man accused of a northwest Washington shooting rampage said Friday at a hearing where six charges of first-degree murder and four of first-degree assault were filed against him.
————————————————–
I must have missed the part where he says he is a Christian?
“samkan” preaches –
“Jesus said we would be hated so you just confirm more of what He said.”
If we don’t hate you, we’re making Him a liar?
Sounds like “Doug” is just doing the Lord’s work.
Zamora has been proven in the past to be terribly mentally ill. That is his problem(illness) not religion. You are a fool Maggot.
“Maggot, clearly in your mind you see no difference between a few nut jobs and the Christian religion as a whole….There is a word for that, bigot.”
Perhaps you can distinguish the difference? Zamora believes in god, speaks to god and listens to him. He believed god told him to go out and kill people. There are such stories in the bible and those people who act out such beliefs are considered to be prophets.
Where’s the difference? But by your ramblings you appear to be one of the mentally disturbed. The “bigots” treated Zamora for mental problems. I suppose you’d translate mental problems as being a person of faith.
Maggotpuke-
Posted September 17, 2008 at 11:33 am | Permalink
Anti, you love murderers and liars? Yeah, I would expect such morals from fundies. I don’t need to apologize for hating immoral fundies, but they are clearly values you embrace
———————————-
I thought you liberal pukes were tolerant.
I guess I got that confused with ignorant hypocrites.
my bad
“Zamora, who has a long record of run-ins with the law, had been admitted several times to hospitals for mental health treatment and attempted suicide several times, his friends and family said.”
“I must have missed the part where he says he is a Christian?”
Oh, my mistake. I thought Christians believed in god.
“I thought you liberal pukes were tolerant.
I guess I got that confused with ignorant hypocrites.
my bad”
Well Jesus said you’d hate me for my righteousness. I guess that makes you a bigot.
Maggot, you are a KOOK if you can not distinguish this person, a murder with serious mental problems and the general Christian population.
“Maggot, you are a KOOK if you can not distinguish this person, a murder with serious mental problems and the general Christian population.”
Hard to say. Do you believe in imaginary beings and do they talk to you?
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 11:44 am | Permalink
“I must have missed the part where he says he is a Christian?”
Oh, my mistake. I thought Christians believed in god.
—————————————————-
I’m taking you for an atheist is that correct?
Every religion believes in a God or Gods.
Christians, Jews and Muslisms all have the same God.
I’m sure you know that and are being argumentative which is fine.
Maggot, so if 5-6 blacks go on a raping and murder spree, then all blacks are murderers and rapist? I see where your logic lies. Bigot.
“Maggot, so if 5-6 blacks go on a raping and murder spree, then all blacks are murderers and rapist? I see where your logic lies. Bigot.”
Poor analogy. Are the Blacks being told by the color of their skin to go out and kill people? BTW, you avoided the question, do you believe in an invisible being that talks to you?
>Sounds like “Doug” is just doing the Lord’s work.<
No.. he is just proving the Lord’s words correct!
Monkey.. are you another of the Maggotpunk clan? Maybe you can answer my question which Doug has conveniently ignored to go on his personal tirade?
And Doug.. PROVE I lied.. you can’t, now what does that make you?
BTW, you avoided the question, do you believe in an invisible being that talks to you?
==========
No, do you believe in something you can’t see that told you you were homosexual?
Or did you do that by yourself maggot?
“And Doug.. PROVE I lied.. you can’t, now what does that make you?”
Disprove your unsupported claim? Your entire inability to support your baseless claim proves you a liar. If you are telling the truth then it should be a simple matter of supporting your position. You are a liar, but in your religion I think that earns you a closer seat to your Jebus.
“No, do you believe in something you can’t see that told you you were homosexual?”
How cute that thoughts of me make you turn to a conversation about homosexuality. But apart from getting aroused can you answer the question or do you need a couple minutes to yourself to clear your mind?
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 11:39 am | Permalink
“Maggotpuke- “Isaac Zamora” from “northwest Washington”
————————-
another product of liberalism.”
It’s the same state Pat Robertson won in the primary against George Bush the smarter.
———————————————
Libturds outnumber conservatives 3-1
I’d call that a bastian…
——–
Maggotpuke- Well Jesus said you’d hate me for my righteousness. I guess that makes you a bigot.
WOW, get your dad back on the computer jr. and get back to your 7th grade history…
“Libturds outnumber conservatives 3-1
I’d call that a bastian…”
So, by your claim liberals are more prominent therefore there aren’t any conservatives and Zamora couldn’t have possibly been a Christian? Well, there’s fundy logic for you.
Perhaps you can borrow Zamora straightjacket when he’s through.
But apart from getting aroused can you answer the question or do you need a couple minutes to yourself to clear your mind?
=======
I did answer. No, nothing invisible has talked to me…except one time in college….but that wasn’t God. Now answer my question and quit avoiding it. It may be personal to you, but you are attacking others for things very personal to them.
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
So, by your claim liberals are more prominent therefore there aren’t any conservatives and Zamora couldn’t have possibly been a Christian? Well, there’s fundy logic for you.
Perhaps you can borrow Zamora straightjacket when he’s through.
————————————————–
The man is obviously mentally ill. If you are suggesting all Christians are, then you are actually walking talking proof of New Testament prophecy. Chew on that for a minute.
Maggotpuke- So, by your claim liberals are more prominent therefore there aren’t any conservatives and Zamora couldn’t have possibly been a Christian? Well, there’s fundy logic for you.
————————–
No, my “claim” is this poor insane bastard was a product of being raised in a sick, liberal environment.
as you will find MOST murderers are.
“Court documents unsealed Wednesday painted accused mass murderer Issac Zamora as a man on a self-described mission from God to kill evil, and the investigation found several people who narrowly escaped being killed.”
http://www.komonews.com/news/28170854.html
Well, he was out to combat the evil doers. If there’s one thing that God loves, according to the Bible, is killing evil in his name. Kinda like when God’s followers would go into a town and slaughter all the inhabitants, including the livestock (they’d keep the virgin girls for sex slaves though).
Praise God, another true follower of rightousness has killed evil in your name. Only those who hate God would denounce Zamora.
“No, my “claim” is this poor insane bastard was a product of being raised in a sick, liberal environment.
as you will find MOST murderers are.”
So, if I find someone who was raised in a conservative environment like Montana then you’d conclude that conservatives spawn criminals? Maybe I could mention the unibomber. As usual, a fundy’s attempt at reasoning fails miserably. It’s such inferior thought processes that produce religious nuts like Zamora. Get your head checked.
Maggotpuke- Only those who hate God would denounce Zamora.
—————
jeeze, your IQ must be soaring……………
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
in the 80s…………..
What persecution have you suffered that makes you hate people of faith so vehemently?
How familiar are you with the bible and the mission of Christ as to the Old Testament?
“What persecution have you suffered that makes you hate people of faith so vehemently?”
Why do I hate religious people who murder others in the name of their religion? Hmmmm, if I have to explain it then you aren’t rational enough to comprehend.
Maggotpuke- So, if I find someone who was raised in a conservative environment like Montana then you’d conclude that conservatives spawn criminals.
—————————-
No not “someone” but the over whelming majorty.
……
Kaczynski was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois……nit.
As usual, a fundy’s attempt at reasoning with a libturd with facts, fails miserably.
“samkan” asks –
>Sounds like “Doug” is just doing the Lord’s work.<
“No.. he is just proving the Lord’s words correct!
“Monkey.. are you another of the Maggotpunk clan? Maybe you can answer my question which Doug has conveniently ignored to go on his personal tirade? “
Hell, I didn’t even know “Maggotpunk” had a clan. Are there meetings? Rituals? Secret handshakes?
Kewl.
And I’m not sure who this guy “Doug” is. Is that “Maggotpunk?” I know people (and address them) only by the nym they use.
Anyway, ask me your “question which Doug has conveniently ignored.” I’ll give you my answer.
You’re obviously trying to make a claim that Zamora’s actions match those or should all people of faith.
So what makes you think the actions of a mentally ill man speak for all Christians?
biased1, Zamora was a member of the Boy Scouts, a Christian organization. Use your own reasoning to make a connection.
But if you like, in Skagit County the Republican candidate for governor received more votes than the Democratic candidate.
http://www.skagitcounty.net/Common/Asp/Default.asp?d=AuditorElections&c=General&p=archives/20080819primary.htm
Kinda weird results for a liberal hotbed isn’t it? It seems you fundies are befuddled. Why can’t your imaginary god give you something better than making yourselves look more retarded than you already are?
>Disprove your unsupported claim? Your entire inability to support your baseless claim proves you a liar. If you are telling the truth then it should be a simple matter of supporting your position. You are a liar, but in your religion I think that earns you a closer seat to your Jebus.<
No Doug.. In other words… you have no evidence whatsoever that I lied. Thank you! Now go back and clear up your lie that faith ALWAYS FAILS!
Maggotdumbass- Why do I hate religious people who murder others in the name of their religion?
——————-
So if they murder just for the hell of it, or to steal a kids shoes, or a truck, or grandmas groceries, your good with that?
as long as not in “the name of religion?”
Oh, I see, that makes sense…..
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
biased1, Zamora was a member of the Boy Scouts, a Christian organization. Use your own reasoning to make a connection.
—————————————————-
So by the same logic Barack Obama IS a Muslim. He attended a Muslism school in Indoensia after all.
It’s been too long since we have discussed evolution/creationism on this Blog.
However, here is further proof that any statement that even questions Darwinian evolution’s dubious hegemony in explaining the existance of life on this planet will be promply censured. Silence the Opposition! These guys are just a little bit too insecure for their theory that is purported to be 100% “science”.
“U.K. Scientist Quits Over Creationism Comments”
His resignation follows a campaign by senior fellows of the august institution, led by a Nobel prize-winner, who were angered by Professor Reiss’ suggestion that science teachers should treat creationist beliefs “not as a misconception but as a world view.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,423243,00.html
“You’re obviously trying to make a claim that Zamora’s actions match those or should all people of faith.
So what makes you think the actions of a mentally ill man speak for all Christians?”
If your god speaks to you and commands you to commit some sort of action then your faith compels you to act, does it not? God commanded Abraham to kill Isaac and he went to perform his duty. Abraham, one of the holy men in the Bible, was doing what his faith commanded. Because Zamora does the same he is considered insane. How do you draw the distinction?
Just earlier up on this thread you have a Christian quoting Jesus who said to have swords handy. Zamora had his ready and combated evil. Yet Zamora is crazy and Jesus isn’t.
I’m curious how you fundies determine the difference between two people who commit the same act but designate one crazy and the other holy.
>And I’m not sure who this guy “Doug” is. Is that “Maggotpunk?” I know people (and address them) only by the nym they use.<
Yes.. Doug is Maggotpunk and I know nothing of their Christian hating rituals or whatever else they do. Ask Doug.. maybe he’ll forward you to his web site if he still has it funded.
Sorry… I’ll let Doug try and answer his question.
“So by the same logic Barack Obama IS a Muslim. He attended a Muslism school in Indoensia after all.”
He did? I’m sure he’d be surprised to hear that public schools are the same as madrassas. That lie had been debunked a long time ago but it’s no surprise to hear fundies lying again.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/
I think my job today is finished. I got fundies to lie and excuse for a mass murderer’s actions for god. Funny how when a Muslim kills a bunch of people for Allah it’s a sign the religion is barbaric, but when a Christian does the same thing….
Love to stay and chat and promote fundies as immoral but I have a lawn to mow and an indoor grow house to build.
If one Christian (giving you benefit of the doubt on Zamora) who is mentally ill kills in Gods name speaks for all Christians then Muslisms must do the same right?
Your own link contains the following.
“Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa.”
Is Obama lying about himself to appeal to Muslisms? Is that the lie?
Maggotpunk can’t see his penis, but he still believes it’s there, so he does believe in miracles and divine guidance. Divine guidance, because otherwise he would be drizzling down his leg when he relieved himself.
Sounds to me like Zamora was schizophrenic.
One of the common symptoms of schizophrenia is
“hearing voices.”
It doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to associate such a symptom with cults who routinely claim, “God spoke to me and….”
It’s such a common meme among the twice-born. “God came to me and told me….”
Well, I suppose He works in mysterious ways an’ all, but on some level such claims rank right up there with those people who’ve claimed to be taken aboard a UFO and anally probed by aliens.
Okay. You believe it happened and it changed your life? Groovy.
But stop lording (ahem) over the rest of us who might not be convinced the bush burned “but was not consumed” (And I have proof! See that bush over there? It didn’t burn away!!). If I’m struck blind on the road to Damascus and get my sight back I might think it was Jesus’ doing…but I wouldn’t expect many of you would believe me when I said, “…and the proof is I’m not blind!”
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 12:27 pm | Permalink
“So by the same logic Barack Obama IS a Muslim. He attended a Muslism school in Indoensia after all.”
He did? I’m sure he’d be surprised to hear that public schools are the same as madrassas. That lie had been debunked a long time ago but it’s no surprise to hear fundies lying again.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/
“Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa.”
Bumping the “LIE” from the above link for kicks.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) picked up on that line during a scathing floor speech Tuesday morning that compared Sen. McCain’s (R-Ariz.) approach to the economy with that of the Hoover administration. In his speech, Reid blasted the Republican candidate’s decision to choose Gramm as a top economic adviser.
“The same Phil Gramm who, as a senator, was responsible for deregulation in the financial services industries that paved the way for much of this crisis to occur,” Reid said. “It was Phil Gramm who pushed legislation through a Republican Senate that allowed firms like Enron to avoid regulation and destroy the life savings of its employees, and it was Phil Gramm’s legislation that now allows Wall Street traders to bid up the price of oil, leaving us to pay the bill.”
Gramm served as McCain’s chief economic adviser until July when he resigned after saying the country is in a “mental recession” and has “sort of become a nation of whiners.”
Republicans strongly reject that criticism, saying Democrats have been advocating destructive tax and spend polices that have made the economy vulnerable.
A McCain aide pointed out that a co-sponsor of the 1999 law, Rep. James Leach (R-Iowa), spoke at the Democratic National Convention and co-founded the group Republicans for Obama. And a Senate GOP aide pointed out that the 90-8 Senate vote in 1999 that sent the legislation to President Clinton’s desk included “aye” votes from Reid and Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden (D-Del.).
Oops, looks like they were “fer it” before they were “agin” it. Typical politicians, from both parties.
Nice rebuttal to Hank’s lie, P-Mom.
“We never said that concealed carry would reduce crime.”
B.S.
Here’s more:
Concealed Carry Law Reduces Crime
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm
when you are losing badly, claim victory and bail…LOL
samkan
Posted September 17, 2008 at 12:44 pm | Permalink
when you are losing badly, claim victory and bail…LOL
—————————————————-
Don’t forget the rallying cry of “LIAR.” Or is it a mating call? LOL
And a Senate GOP aide pointed out that the 90-8 Senate vote in 1999 that sent the legislation to President Clinton’s desk included “aye” votes from Reid and Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden (D-Del.).
This, of course, was after the 50-44 (I think, going from memory) on the Senate version of the bill, for which McCain, mostly with Republicans, voted “aye” and Biden voted “nay,” This talking point was hashed out on the “why has nothing been done?” thread. Text-search “Rage” and you will find the links documenting it.
It’s all too common from the opposition party to vote for the conference report rather than risk whatever concessions were gained in the negotiations. It’s not particularly admirable, but it’s reality.
Sorry, but the Republicans and conservative Democrats own this one.
Is the any chance, in this home stretch, that we can talk about reality instead of someone else’s talking points?
Hank
Posted March 23, 2006 at 10:42 pm | Permalink
I think that actually carrying a concealed weapon will have less to do with reducing crime than the mere knowledge that people can carry if they want to. Instead I’ll probably just put another NRA sticker on my PU.
ksgrm
Posted October 14, 2007 at 7:10 pm | Permalink
“While support for strict gun-control laws usually has been strongest in large cities, where crime rates are highest, that’s precisely where right-to-carry laws have produced the largest drops in violent crimes.”
Max
Posted October 14, 2007 at 9:40 pm | Permalink
And the idiot completely underestimates the mental capacity of criminals who really do know the value of concealed carry laws. The deterrent effect of not knowing who is or isn’t carrying, has driven down crime rates.
*****
Wow. Good thing that the gun-huggers never made the unsustainable claim that allowing concealed carry will reduce crime rates.
BTW, violent crime is UP 2 percent in Wichita, now that concealed carry is legal.
I knew there was a rational reason for the 90 vote, dems. never vote with the repubs. in those numbers on a single issue bill.
CraponAmerica-
Posted September 17, 2008 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
BTW, violent crime is UP 2 percent in Wichita, now that concealed carry is legal.
———————————–
Right now two things are also true.
None of the victims had concealed carry licenses.
None of the shooters had concealed carry licenses.
it won’t be “UP” long after the the first “would be” victim whips out his colt and nails a perp.
BAM!
Sometimes I fell like Archie Bunker put it “We should put signs on our borders saying Closed. Owner gone crazy”
Biased1–
You’re changing the grounds of the argument.
You people–Hank, OkObserver, MaxGrobnik–clearly claimed that Concealed Carry would reduce crime simply by virtue of the law itself, whether people carried or not.
This has not turned out to be true.
(BTW, in my little bonedig, I found that GMC said that concealed carry would make no difference one way or the other. I add that in fairness to him.)
Maggot is really reaching this time. Claiming that some nut job who says he killed for God is a Christian because Christians believe in God is a complete misapplication of any type of logic.
That is like saying all dogs are animals, so therefore, all animals are dogs.
Maggot has really lost it, hasn’t he?
So, capn is trying to relate two unrelated items. Crime is up by 2% since passage of CCW. How many of those crimes involved someone with a CCW license?
once again..capn is off base. Not surprising with his myopic vision.
Crime is up by 2% since passage of CCW. How many of those crimes involved someone with a CCW license?
===========
How many of those crimes were committed by Blacks or Hispanics? Should we make a correlation of that as well?
Capn’A has a bogus argument as usual.
Interesting cleansing of a story to protect the liberal democrats…
http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-09/sibelius.htm
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/689044.html
Multi-nic’d Regular posted September 17, 2008 at 10:07 am
Maggotpunk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:06 am | Permalink
Some more about McCain. McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear reactors. The construction will be financed by the taxpayer with a huge $315 billion in earmarks for the projects.
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It’s a very wise investment. Much better than to keep sending hundreds of billions of dollars to Oil States.
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It’s a very stupid investment.
“Oil” generates almost none of our electricity.
outlander posted September 17, 2008 at 10:25 am
“Excellent. That would be a great start toward energy independence. I wonder who builds nuke plant and whether they’re publicly traded? Better do some research.”
—————–
Research the costs.
25: What about nuclear power?
Page 258 (PDF pg 282)
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
“Regardless, nuclear power948 has no prospects in market-driven energy systems, for a simple reason: new nuclear plants949 cost too much to build.
In round numbers, electricity from new light-water reactors will cost
twice as much as from new windfarms,
five to ten times as much as distributed gas-fired cogeneration or trigeneration in buildings and factories (net of the credit for their recovered heat),
and three to thirty times as much as end-use efficiency that can save most of the electricity now used.95
Any one of these three abundant and widely available competitors alone could knock nuclear power out of the market, and there are three, with more on the way (ultimately including cheap fuel cells).”
ADVANCE WARNING! For those not interested in what a member of the Alaska legislature has to say on a blog about troopergate, use your scroll wheel!
Alaska Representative Les Gara
http://house.legis.state.ak.us/gar.php
has become a blogger at mudflats. Here is what Rep. Gara has to say about the latest shenanigans with regard to troopergate. The Alaska legislature is aware of the world’s eyes on them so hopefully won’t be swayed by the tactics being used to delay, postpone, eliminate this ongoing investigation.
———-
Since Monday the McCain camp has stepped up its personal attacks against Alaskans. They’ve continued their D.C.-style tactics against neighbors in this small state. The game plan is to find an excuse to stop our Legislature’s Troopergate investigation, and hide evidence McCain’s folks really don’t want to surface before November’s election. It’s been a little Karl Rove, and parts Laurel and Hardy. How else can you explain the following?
Last week the Attorney general’s office promised state witnesses would comply with subpoenas the Legislature issued last week. Tuesday the Governor’s Attorney General flip flopped, and announced that state witnesses wouldn’t comply because, well, and I’m paraphrasing here – he’s changed his mind. And in what has to be an idea hatched after a 4th Martini at Chilkoot Charlie’s, Governor Palin’s attorneys have filed a motion to dismiss the ethics claim she filed against herself two weeks ago. Yup. She really filed a complaint against herself. Tuesday she said she’s discovered, after a thorough investigation of herself, that she’s done nothing wrong. Does anyone know how to get a hold of Jon Stewart and Tina Fey?
It’s silly season up here in the far north, but this week’s moves are aimed at one thing: John McCain’s effort to find cover for being disingenuous. See, before Governor Palin’s nomination for the Republican VP spot, she did the honest thing. She admitted the evidence – of roughly 20 contacts between her staff and husband with Public Safety officials, seeking the firing of Governor Palin’s former brother-in-law – might lead a reasonable person to the conclusion that the she misused her office to fire a state employee. So when Alaska’s Republican-led Legislature called for an investigation, she did the honorable thing and said she and her staff would comply. She denies any wrongdoing.
Things changed on August 29 when Governor Palin was added to the McCain ticket. Since then his handlers have told her she can’t testify. They don’t want the evidence in this case to come out. They don’t want her to testify under oath. They don’t want other witnesses to testify under oath. So they have engaged in daily maneuvers to attack, as disloyal to the McCain campaign, anyone who wants the investigation to move forward. They’ve now attacked two well respected prosecutors, and perhaps the state’s most highly regarded law enforcement official – the Public Safety Commissioner she hired, and then fired, Walt Monegan.
Every day this week McCain operatives have sung the same tune. Today a guy with an East Coast accent, who knows nothing about Alaska, stood in front of a McCain-Palin banner to lead the attacks against people he doesn’t know. At press conferences on Monday and Tuesday campaign staffer Megan Stapleton spit vitriol to repeat her argument that this investigation is really a “Democratic” attack on Governor Palin.
See, that’s easier than just saying their VP has reneged on her promise to testify. It’s easier than just saying they don’t want anyone testifying before the November election. It’s easier than admitting they are stonewalling a legislative investigation.
Here are a few things they failed to say. There are a few small facts that make it hard to style this as a Democratic investigation. One is that Alaska is a Republican State. We have a Republican Governor and a Legislature of 34 Republicans and 26 Democrats. This summer the Legislature’s Legislative Council voted 12-0 (8 Republicans and 4 Democrats) to hire an investigator, and appointed Democratic Senator Hollis French, a well-respected former prosecutor, to find an investigator. Governor Palin stated she and her employees would comply with the investigation. French then hired Steve Branchflower, a former DA who most recently was hired by legislative Republicans to run the state’s Office of Victims rights.
And on Friday the Senate Judiciary Committee voted 3-2 (2 Democrats and 1 Republican in favor); and the House Judiciary Committee issued a 7 – 0 (5 Republicans, 2 Democrats) advisory vote, to issue subpoenas to witnesses the McCain camp had previously stopped from testifying.
Over the last two days McCain’s outside operatives have vilified former prosecutor Hollis French – as an Obama supporter who must have called this investigation to hurt the McCain ticket. But French was appointed to oversee the investigation by a 12 – 0 Legislative Council vote, and is probably the state’s most respected legislator – by Republicans and Democrats alike. He’s so popular the Republican Party couldn’t find anyone to run against him this year.
They’ve called former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan – a Native Alaskan who has served Republican and Democratic Administrations with honor, and put his life on the line in uniform – “insubordinate.” Odd, given that when Governor Palin fired him she offered him a different job. I guess being “insubordinate” was a job requirement for the new position. And they’ve challenged the independence of an investigator and former DA, who has no animus anyone can find.
Those Swift boat ads taught the McCain folks that if you say something untrue enough times, it can stick.
My favorite moment of the week came when Governor Palin’s attorneys filed a motion to dismiss Palin’s ethics complaint against herself. Stay with me. Her attorneys have been buying the peyote, not me. See, on August 29 they needed to find a way to stop the Legislature’s investigation. They tried asking the Republican leaders to call it off, and take one for the team. But the Senate President and others honorably said no. So they came up with an argument that the State Personnel Board – 3 people appointed by Governor Palin and her Republican predecessor Frank Murkowski – had “exclusive jurisdiction” to investigate wrongdoing by the Governor. The Legislature wasn’t amused. So Governor Palin then filed a complaint against herself.
That, they said, put “jurisdiction” in the hands of their friends at the Personnel Board. They argued that since the Personnel Board was now proceeding with an “investigation”, the Legislature couldn’t.
To put icing on the cake, on Monday the Governor’s attorneys moved to dismiss the Governor’s case against herself. They said, and I loosely paraphrase again – that they tried really hard and just couldn’t find any evidence that the Governor did anything wrong. OK. I can’t believe I just wrote that. And I wish it weren’t true.
These are the things you have to do when your Presidential candidate doesn’t want his VP to honor a promise, and doesn’t want evidence to come out before an election. These are the things you have to do if your folks aren’t going to comply with a subpoena. That’s because without spin the headline might read: “McCain Interferes With Investigation Palin Agreed To.” How easy it is to re-write a headline. They learned that during the Swift boat campaign too.
All we can hope for is that members of the press will remember what they learned in journalism school. Not to repeat the spin of political operatives without reporting the truth. Not to write “he said she said” stories, and pretend the truth is somewhere in the middle. But to report the facts. No matter how you spin it, Governor Palin promised to comply with this Legislative Investigation. McCain’s folks got her to change her position. And the Legislature that voted for the investigation did so on a bi-partisan basis. End of story. End of headline.
Over the next few days McCain’s folks will try to get local legislators to step in line, out of party loyalty, and reverse their vote to investigate Troopergate. But many local Republicans, like Senate President Lyda Green, have so far refused to play those politics.
Stay for more from McCain’s Campaign for “Change.” They’ve tried to change the truth. They’ve succeeded at changing Governor Palin’s promise to comply with this investigation. Let’s see what they’ll change next.
http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/new-mccain-stall-of-troopergate-investigation-part-karl-rove-part-laurel-hardy/
That’s politics in America today.
It’s well documented that Palin beat a Republican incumbent in the primary and rattled her own party with reforms. She’s made enemies on both sides of the aisle so this is no surprise.
She was obviously under the influence when she filed said motion against herself, and it should be thrown out for undue influence.
RE: Pailin’s Problems Wont Go Away!!
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1118416&srvc=2008campaign&position=5
‘McCain Nuclear Energy Revival May Cost $315 Billion’
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aRkagygu04Ks&refer=us
“John McCain’s plan to revive the U.S. nuclear power industry with 45 new reactors may cost $315 billion, with taxpayers bearing much of the financial risk.
…
Taxpayers are on the hook only if borrowers default. A 2003 Congressional Budget Office report said the default rate on nuclear construction debts might be as high as 50 percent, in part because of the projects’ high costs.
“The nuclear industry has been aggressively going after taxpayer-backed loan guarantees because nuclear technology cannot stand on its own two feet in the marketplace,” said Allison Fisher, an energy policy analyst for the nonprofit consumer group Public Citizen in Washington.”
$315 billion into alternative power we know works vs $150 billion in venture funds with who knows how much more to follow?
Chas
Posted September 17, 2008 at 2:46 pm | Permalink
RE: Pailin’s Problems Wont Go Away!!
——-
Chas, I know you are not too sharp, but that isn’t new, uh news.
$315 billion wasted on a too expensive source of power.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/open-thread-917-2/#comment-427079
What is the cost cosmos of the new infrastructure to be built to support wind/solar plants and eliminate coal plants?
Perhaps not Auntie…. BUT — The other day bunches of people were fussing, cause they couldnt find a link…. I traced it down to Boston Herald…
Really makes me wonder what kind of person would even WANT to force rape victims to PAY for the cost of a rape kit…
Gee, I wonder if they demand that dead people pay for DNA tests to convict killers before a murder trial???
Definitely not an attitude I would want to see in a VP of the USA!!!
Kudos to the Alaska Legislature for making such practices ILLEGAL in their state!!
“before a murder trial??? SHOULD be >>>>
‘before they go to a murder trial’
Kudos to the Alaska Legislature for making such practices ILLEGAL in their state!!
==========
I don’t think granola had anything to do with it.
ANTI posted September 17, 2008 at 3:07 pm
“What is the cost cosmos of the new infrastructure to be built to support wind/solar plants and eliminate coal plants?”
———–
25: What about nuclear power?
Page 258 (PDF pg 282)
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
“Regardless, nuclear power948 has no prospects in market-driven energy systems, for a simple reason: new nuclear plants949 cost too much to build.
In round numbers, electricity from new light-water reactors will cost
twice as much as from new windfarms,
five to ten times as much as distributed gas-fired cogeneration or trigeneration in buildings and factories (net of the credit for their recovered heat), and
three to thirty times as much as end-use efficiency that can save most of the electricity now used.95
Any one of these three abundant and widely available competitors alone could knock nuclear power out of the market, and there are three, with more on the way (ultimately including cheap fuel cells).”
Auntie — Thats just stupid…. nincompoop!!
Do Alaskans have to pay for the autopsy of their deceased, or do they get federal funds for that also?
Obama sponsors an Illinois State bill that forces victim to pay for their Victim Rape Kit
According to a 2004 bulletin published by the NCVC, “[F]eedback from the field indicates that sexual assault victims are still being billed.” Knecht says she’s recently heard from caseworkers in Illinois, Georgia, and Arkansas reporting that rape victims continue to be charged for their forensic exams.
Obama sponsored a “Reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses” plan, but the the State of Illinois still bills a victims insurance company or their public aid account.
The Illinois Department of Public Aid will reimburse the costs of ER treatment if you do not have public aid or private medical insurance. i.e. no insurance or no public aid, the victim kit gets paid for by the state.
Which is oddly exactly what the Police Chief of Wasilla said was done there, and like Illinois, advocated for criminal restution to pay for those tests.
Did ya catch that Chas and duh other Libs? The policy in Wasilla is identical to that of Illinois.
Cosmos, do those estimates figure in the cost of new infrastructures for wind/solar? Coal & Nuclear can usually be constructed very close to the grid, while wind is dependant on where the wind is. So is infrastructure cost considered secondary cost thereby lowering the cost appearance in relation to coal/nuclear?
Maybe sarah could get her self requested ethics probe thrown out for ‘lack of capacity’.
Also interesting. . .
‘Palin’s town used to bill victims for rape kits‘
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-10-rape-exams_N.htm
“… Congress in 2005 passed a law requiring states to provide rape exams free of charge or reimburse victims for the costs, says Knecht, whose group supported the provision.
…
The Senate version of the legislation that included the rape-exam provision was sponsored by Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, the Democratic vice presidential nominee. Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama was one of 58 co-sponsors; Republican presidential nominee John McCain was not.
I know first hand wind farm projects are often separated in cost from infrastructure. Wind farm project and separate project cost/funds for getting the power to the grid.
Sounds like Wasilla charged the ins. when possible, when not possible they sought payment from the victims.
Doesn’t sound like the same exact policy to me, if you’re not otherwise covered Illinois will pick up the tab.
Check this Regular —- Also Congress, 2005…
According to the University of Chicago at this site http://sexualviolence.uchicago.edu/immediate-er-cost.shtml, what this means for rape victims, in plain English, is:
“According to the Sexual Assault Emergency Treatment Act, the Illinois Department of Public Aid will reimburse the costs of ER treatment if you do not have public aid or private medical insurance. Under the Illinois Crime Victim’s Compensation Act, if you report the assault to the police within 72 hours of the crime and if you file a claim application within two years of the date of the crime, you can be reimbursed for out-of-pocket medical expenses, loss of earnings, psychological counseling, and loss of support income due to the crime. Reimbursement can be up to $27,000.”
This amendment sponsored by:
House Sponsors:
WAIT-KLINGLER-MULLIGAN-PARKE.
Senate Sponsors:
DILLARD-OBAMA”
ANTI,
If you use the cheapest solutions first (co-gen, tri-gen, and higher end-use efficiency) you reduce the need for new infrastructure.
First of all, I don’t think anyone has ever made the claim that crime, specifically in Wichita, will for a fact, go down with the passing of a concealed carry law.
Talk about a strawman argument from CapnAmerica and Political Mama.
What the NRA claims and what most of us who supported Concealed carry claimed is that on average across the country, a reduction in violent crime rates has follwed passing of concealed carry laws.
Either way, so what? Concealed carry has been legal for 2 years now.
Just because we have had an increase in violent crime this year, what does that prove?
There are so many factors involved that trying to blame it on concealed carry is absurd.
What is true, is that all of the “blood in the streets” arguments made against concealed carry by you liberals have not come true.
And what an indictment against America’s healthcare financing system.
Just because a rape kit is administered by a medical professional doesn’t make it a “medical” procedure. It’s about gathering evidence for a crime.
But we’re so screwed up by the CONs’ obsession for treating healthcare as a commodity, a woman who gets raped is forced to pay for helping solve the crime.
“We’ll do a ballistics test on that bullet in your brain…if you have Blue Cross.”
Cosmos, when a wind farm is built in BFE to get the most out of the wind and the grid is far away you need new infrastructure.
“We’ll do a ballistics test on that bullet in your brain…if you have Blue Cross.”
======
Good to know- I do have Blue Cross, sorry about your luck MH. HEEE HEEE HEEEE
There is also another way to look at the argument as well.
Perhaps the violent crime trends were going to go up even more than they did if not for Concealed Carry being passed 2 years ago.
Think about that.
Auntie, your gleeful laughter, regarding a serious, and compassionate subject matter, speaks volumes about your credibility on anything else on which you might wish to be taken seriously.
Anathema!! Curse on you!!
Chas,
So are you also saying that your attitude towards others here in swearing at them and calling people names “speaks volumes about your credibility on anything else on which you might wish to be taken seriously?”
Naathan — SHOVE IT!! nitwit!!
Mccain’s perspective “Why should the Marvelous Ape have to pay?”
Mary,
I see you are twisting the facts as usual. How is 20,000 people killing themselves with guns = gun violence?
I am not saying that 10,000 dead a year is “good” but that is all that are killed from both accidents and gun “violence.”
The other 20,000 kill themselves.
Chas,
Ok liar.
WTH??? Liar??? Where?? On What??
Phantom
Posted September 17, 2008 at 4:07 pm | Permalink
Mccain’s perspective “Why should the Marvelous Ape have to pay?”
============
No one can find the ape, not even his 14 babies mamas. They do know he sells crack and drives a beat up Cadillac. Good Luck Phantom.
#
Chas
Posted September 17, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink
Check this Regular —- Also Congress, 2005…
According to the University of Chicago at this site http://sexualviolence.uchicago.edu/immediate-er-cost.shtml, what this means for rape victims, in plain English, is:
“According to the Sexual Assault Emergency Treatment Act, the Illinois Department of Public Aid will reimburse the costs of ER treatment if you do not have public aid or private medical insurance. Under the Illinois Crime Victim’s Compensation Act, if you report the assault to the police within 72 hours of the crime and if you file a claim application within two years of the date of the crime, you can be reimbursed for out-of-pocket medical expenses, loss of earnings, psychological counseling, and loss of support income due to the crime. Reimbursement can be up to $27,000.”
This amendment sponsored by:
House Sponsors:
WAIT-KLINGLER-MULLIGAN-PARKE.
Senate Sponsors:
DILLARD-OBAMA”
=====================
That’s what I wrote Chas and that is exactly the policy of Wasilla.
The medical insurance is charged or if you are on public aid, that pays for the rape kit.
If you have neither, then you can get reimbursed.
So your claims about Palin and Wasilla are baseless as usual.
The source of the Knecht quote (note the part conveniently left out:
Turns out experts on sexual assault are all too familiar with the issue. “It’s been a problem for a long time,” says Ilse Knecht, deputy director of public policy at the National Center for Victims of Crime. “We’ve heard so many stories of victims paying for their exams, or not being able to and then creditors coming after them.” In order to qualify for federal grants under the Violence Against Women Act, states have to assume the full out-of-pocket costs for forensic medical exams, as the rape kits are called. But according to a 2004 bulletin published by the NCVC, “[F]eedback from the field indicates that sexual assault victims are still being billed.” Knecht says she’s recently heard from caseworkers in Illinois, Georgia, and Arkansas reporting that rape victims continue to be charged for their forensic exams.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/on-health-and-money/2008/2/21/rape-victims-can-be-hurt-financially-too.html
The claim about Obama sponsoring a bill mandating billing for rape kits appears to a right-wing distortion of a bill that actually mandates state payment of medical treatment.
An extended discussion of that lie, complete with links, can be found here:
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=12102069
Monkeyhawk
Posted September 17, 2008 at 3:50 pm | Permalink
And what an indictment against America’s healthcare financing system.
Just because a rape kit is administered by a medical professional doesn’t make it a “medical” procedure. It’s about gathering evidence for a crime.
————————————
Remember that next time a Physician removes a bullet from you. You can claim it’s not a medical procedure because it’s part of a law enforcement investigation.
Perhaps the bill collectors will buy that
or not.
Ummmm — Regular —-
Insurance companies dont pay the full amount… the individual still has to pay the deductible, or co-pay…. THAT isnt a part of the Illinois bill… Illinois pays the FULL cost… Alaska did not… until they passed the law that says they do now… signed by Gov. Knowles…
#
Chas
Posted September 17, 2008 at 4:18 pm | Permalink
Ummmm — Regular —-
Insurance companies dont pay the full amount… the individual still has to pay the deductible, or co-pay…. THAT isnt a part of the Illinois bill… Illinois pays the FULL cost… Alaska did not… until they passed the law that says they do now… signed by Gov. Knowles…
—————————-
That’s right Chas, the victim will get reimbursed AFTER they pay the bill.
Which is the identical policy of Wasilla and the State of Alaska.
Thanks to the Congressional legislation, passed in 2005, NOBODY will pay for a rape kit again!! Hoooray!!! (BTW, Biden sponsored the bill(Senate) and Obama was a co-sponsor, with 58 others (had to include some republicans)
Why ANY State… I dont care which one… would even ASK a rape victim to pay for any part of the prosecution of his/her rapist, doesnt speak well for ANY State… Rep. or Dem. Gov. Palin, or any OTHER Governor!!
Such a policy just flat out STINKS!!
Chas,
Whats wrong Chas? Don’t want to play anymore now do you?
LOL
Nathan, I dont ever want to play with you!!
You jumped in from out of nowhere, and attacked me… I had not even addressed anything in your direction all day!! BUT, you decided you just had to jump right in there, and ATTACK….
As I said before…. SHOVE IT!! nitwit
Sebelius: Obama’s race ‘may be a factor’
By John Deeth 9/16/08 8:31 PM
IOWA CITY — Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius publicly considered the possibility that Sen. Barack Obama’s race might be a factor in this year’s presidential election during an appearance here Tuesday.
“Have any of you noticed that Barack Obama is part African-American?” Sebelius asked in response to a question about why the election is so close. “That may be a factor. All the code language, all that doesn’t show up in the polls. And that may be a factor for some people.”
http://iowaindependent.com/5627/sebelius-obamas-race-may-be-a-factor
What an insult to America! What an embarrassment to Kansas…
Multi-nic’d Regular posted September 17, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“That’s right Chas, the victim will get reimbursed AFTER they pay the bill.
Which is the identical policy of Wasilla and the State of Alaska.”
————
Multi-nic’d, don’t you have anything better to do with your life than post LIES on the WE Blog?
#
cosmos_originally
Posted September 17, 2008 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
Multi-nic’d Regular posted September 17, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“That’s right Chas, the victim will get reimbursed AFTER they pay the bill.
Which is the identical policy of Wasilla and the State of Alaska.”
————
Multi-nic’d, don’t you have anything better to do with your life than post LIES on the WE Blog?
—————————–
What lies Kommie?
The policy in Wasilla and Illinois prior to 2004 when Obama was in the State Senate and when Palin was Mayor, was identical.
Now that the laws are changed nationally, they are still identical.
Go back to reading your Pravda literature and Moscow Daily cosmos.
We cannot ask taxpayers to pay for the morning-after abortifacients in rape kits, which sometimes cause an early abortion.
- – -
After what appears to be an arson attack from an abortion advocate, a pro-life crisis pregnancy center in Lebanon, OR will rebuild. Police confirmed on Friday that the Pregnancy Alternatives Center in Lebanon was a victim of an arson fire in an incident that follows leading abortion advocates attacking pregnancy centers. The pregnancy center was in the middle of an expansion and the final stages of remodeling before the incident, costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to rebuild.
Pro-abortion activists complain that pregnancy centers are telling women about the medical and mental health risks associated with an abortion such as the link between abortion and breast cancer, and the numerous mental health concerns such as depression and an increased risk of drug or alcohol abuse following an abortion. This dissemination of truth, in addition to help offered for parenting and adoption, would, of course, cut down abortions and abortion mill profits, a terrible threat to America’s abortion industry.
- – -
A Phoenix, AZ middle school administrator found a full-term newborn boy screaming in a garbage can outside the school Tuesday afternoon. The boy was treated in excellent condition at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center. The 14-year-old mother, having given birth inside the administration building at Osborn Middle School, was located at a nearby apartment and also taken for hospital treatment, and will likely be charged with child abuse, if not attempted murder, in view of the state’s legalized safe abandonment law which was available for the protection of the infant, but selfishly disdained.
“They had me booked in for an abortion the next day. Their reasons were I could not take care of myself let alone a baby. I had no permanent home, and to even think of keeping “it” was totally selfish on my part. They gave me no options and no information; my rights as a human being were not valid because of who I was, just another stupid teenager who got pregnant. I wanted so much to talk to someone, maybe someone would say, “Don’t do it, I will help you through,” or maybe, “You can keep your baby, there is help available and there are people who care,” but instead I was herded into a room with about ten other girls like cattle and spoken to like I was a piece of dirt and treated as such.”
. . . Sue, recalling committing an abortion at age 15
. . .
“Some women insisted on seeing the fetus, so we would check how many weeks they were and select the appropriate pot off the shelf. None of the containers had a fetus in them, nothing recognizable to the naked eye at least. The contents resembled pavlova mixture: egg whites stiffly beaten, floating in a clear solution. They never saw their own fetus. It had been discarded …”
. . . Laurel Guymer, a former abortion mill counselor
. . .
See book page
http://www.theunchoice.com/GivingSorrowWords.htm
It seems that multi-nic’d Regular does not have anything better to do with his life than post LIES and false ad hominems here.
“stonegroundwheat” feigns outrage –
http://iowaindependent.com/5627/sebelius-obamas-race-may-be-a-factor
What an insult to America! What an embarrassment to Kansas…
Apparently you haven’t read the “big lips” memes posted by CONs on this forum.
“cosmos_originally” notes –
“…Regular does not have anything better to do with his life than post LIES and false ad hominems here.”
Yeah.
So what is new?
#
cosmos_originally
Posted September 17, 2008 at 5:19 pm | Permalink
It seems that multi-nic’d Regular does not have anything better to do with his life than post LIES and false ad hominems here.
——————-
Translation:
The kommies cosmos and Chas just hate to admit when they are proven wrong.
HOT Training
Date: September 17, 2008
Contact: Wichita Fire Dept. Division Chief Billy Wenzel
Phone: (316) 648-542
More than 200 firefighters will convene this weekend for the first annual Wichita HoT, a major training exercise hosted by the Wichita Fire Department.
Firefighters from Wichita, other Kansas communities and several other states are registered for this intensive hands-on training exercise. The training exercises are offered from 8am – 5pm Saturday and Sunday, Sept. 20-21 at various training sites including the Wichita Fire Department Training Academy (31st and Oliver).
Wichita HoT is expected to be the second largest training exercise in the state. It allows local and regional firefighters to participate in training that previously was only available in other major cities and states.
“These firefighters recognize this is a great opportunity to receive top training locally,” said Billy Wenzel, Wichita Fire Department Division Chief. “The mission of this school is to provide quality training to firefighters at a fraction of the cost.”
Training activities will cover a wide range of specialized firefighting techniques, such as forcible entry into a building with minimum property damage.
“For example, a building could have steel bars in the windows, and we will train firefighters to remove the bars in the most efficient method,” Wenzel said. “For commercial property, it’s extremely important to get in the building with minimal damage.”
The Wichita Fire Department is providing the instructors and facilities for the exercise. Other expenses are paid by the Wichita Fire Rescue Association, a non-profit organization created to promote firefighter training.
Media coverage of the two-day exercise is welcome. Inquiries should be made to Division Chief Wenzel, 648-5421. Wichita Fire Chief Ronald D. Blackwell and Division Chief Billy Wenzel will be on site from 1 pm – 3 pm Saturday at the Wichita Fire Department Training Academy, 31st and Oliver, to answer questions. Chief Wenzel will also be available Sunday.
BEFORE the legislatures of Alaska and Illinois made changes….
The two policies were NOT the same…. Illinois paid the FULL PRICE…. (Which they shouldnt have done by reimbursement)
ALASKA billed the insurance companies…. which means, that unless the person’s deductible has been…. OR they do NOT have a Co-pay… Then the VICTIM still has to pay part of the Cost….
That was NOT the case in Illinois!! Not at all!!
Furthermore, it is totally FALSE to suggest that Obama agreed with such a bad thing as to bill a Rape Victim for the cost of the Rape Kit….
Now… WHERE am I wrong, REGULIAR???
Let’s see… The GOVERNMENT has bailed out Bear/Stearns… Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae(actually took thoes over)… LOANED AIG Billions in loans(plus 80% interest in the company — which is in fact, ownership)….
And this seems to be OK with all of the CONS… IF that had happened to individuals who ran out of operating funds… The same CONS would be screaming about WELFARE, and about Socialism!!!
I say the Government has now become a Corporate Welfare State, AND acting in the way of traditional Socialism….
But, since it supports big business, and corporations…. the CONS think it’s OK…
How many generations of future taxpayers will it take to PAY OFF these huge bailouts??
“Monkeyhawk” changes the subject with demagoguery and a red herring comparing a sitting Governor to blog posters:
“stonegroundwheat” feigns outrage –
http://iowaindependent.com/5627/sebelius-obamas-race-may-be-a-factor
What an insult to America! What an embarrassment to Kansas…
Apparently you haven’t read the “big lips” memes posted by CONs on this forum.
—
What an insult to America! What an embarrassment to Kansas…
Palin’s Yahoo! Account Hacked
Updated 7:21 p.m.
By Michael D. Shear and Karl Vick
Hackers said they took over a Yahoo! e-mail account of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin Wednesday, publishing some of its contents on the Internet and exposing the Republican vice presidential nominee’s private communications and use of the personal account for government business.
…
Andrée McLeod, the activist who filed the FOIA request, said Wednesday evening that Palin should have known better than to conduct state business using an unsecured e-mail account.
“If this woman is so careless as to conduct state business on a private e-mail account that has been hacked into, what in the world is she going to do when she has access to information that is vital to our national security interests?” she asked.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/palins_yahoo_account_hacked.html#more?hpid=topnews
—-
:lol:
Sarah Palin: she’s got the potential to make Crawford, TX, want to hold a biddin’ war with Wasilla, AK, for the country’s bestest Missing Village Dingleberry.
…the Wiki server with her email stuff is locked up, I’m shocked. :lol:
I bet this will get pretty interesting…
#
Chas
Posted September 17, 2008 at 5:57 pm | Permalink
BEFORE the legislatures of Alaska and Illinois made changes….
The two policies were NOT the same…. Illinois paid the FULL PRICE…. (Which they shouldnt have done by reimbursement)
ALASKA billed the insurance companies…. which means, that unless the person’s deductible has been…. OR they do NOT have a Co-pay… Then the VICTIM still has to pay part of the Cost….
That was NOT the case in Illinois!! Not at all!!
Furthermore, it is totally FALSE to suggest that Obama agreed with such a bad thing as to bill a Rape Victim for the cost of the Rape Kit….
Now… WHERE am I wrong, REGULIAR???
——————-
You were wrong for even posting the information because it didn’t make a hill of beans of difference in the long run as you saw.
Obama did agree to such a bill, you just have to do more research. It was no doubt on one of his just punch the “present” button times.
I bet I know what reaction John McCain will have.
“Wait, won’t the cops find a hacksaw?!? THERE MAY BE FINGERPRINTS!!!”
:lol:
Where are the screams from the left about right to privacy, and all that. Oh, it was a REpublicans email that was hacked, so it’s okay. Long as we keep it straight that right to privacy only exists for those we agree with. Yeah.
‘Palin’s Anti-Rape-Investigation Stance Raised by McCain Campaign. Will Reporters Question?‘
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palins-anti-rape-investig_b_126763.html
Also read Mary Mapes post, link at above page.
Sure, hacking another’s email account is bad: no question.
But where does it rank next to a US governor, running for the office of VPOTUS, using a hackable email account to conduct official state business?
No doubt the hacker looks bad, none….but it’s the hackEE who REALLY stands out here.
My ex used to have a theory about girlfriends who stole her boyfriends. She never held it against her girlfriends on the theory that, although it hurt, in reality they did her a favor. Seems to me these hackers are a lot like my ex’s girlfriends.
“No doubt the hacker looks bad, none….but it’s the hackEE who REALLY stands out here. Seems to me these hackers are a lot like my ex’s girlfriends.”
Just as I figured.
And they posted what? THe report I saw mentioned family photos, etc. HOW THE HELL IS THAT RELEVANT?!!!!
#
Pedant
Posted September 17, 2008 at 8:12 pm | Permalink
Sure, hacking another’s email account is bad: no question.
But where does it rank next to a US governor, running for the office of VPOTUS, using a hackable email account to conduct official state business?
No doubt the hacker looks bad, none….but it’s the hackEE who REALLY stands out here.
My ex used to have a theory about girlfriends who stole her boyfriends. She never held it against her girlfriends on the theory that, although it hurt, in reality they did her a favor. Seems to me these hackers are a lot like my ex’s girlfriends.
===============================
What’s bad for the hackers is that they attack an email account of someone (Palin) under federal protection (Secret Service).
Now, they are going to have all sorts of Feds breathing down their necks. They’ll probably wish they were never born.
Blame other crime victims too Pedant? That girl that got raped had no business being out in that area dressed like that, did she?
Knowles signs sexual assault bill
Published on Monday, May 22, 2000
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt
“The new law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency to bill victims or victims insurance companies for the costs of examinations that take place to collect evidence of a sexual assault or determine if a sexual assault did occur.
We would never bill the victim of a burglary for fingerprinting and photographing the crime scene, or for the cost of gathering other evidence, Knowles said. Nor should we bill rape victims just because the crime scene happens to be their bodies.”
Chas posted September 17, 2008 at 5:57 pm
“Now… WHERE am I wrong, REGULIAR???”
———–
You’re wrong in expecting an honest, rational discussion from the LYING multi-nic’d Regular.
littlejohn
Posted September 17, 2008 at 8:20 pm | Permalink
And they posted what? THe report I saw mentioned family photos, etc. HOW THE HELL IS THAT RELEVANT?!!!!
—
It’s not.
What is relevant, though, is official state business conducted on an easily hackable email account. Totally relevant.
Is anybody else reminded by Palin of anything else? Any other Republic anybody can recall using personal email accounts to conduct official business? Official Federal business? On RNC Blackberries?
ANS: George W Bush.
Like I have said, over and over, when it comes to governing styles,
Sarah Palin = George W Bush
Speaking of Blackberries. . .
‘Feds probe hack of Palin’s e-mail account’
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10044919-38.html
“But there was some evidence that Gov. Palin conducted work business via personal e-mail–perhaps as a way to avoid divulging data in response to a subpoena or request made under Alaska’s open government laws.
Though that wasn’t exactly a revelation. The New York Times published an article on Sunday saying:
———
Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a BlackBerry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.” Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. A campaign spokesman said the governor copied e-mail messages to her state account “when there was significant state business.”
On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.” Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”
———
“the one thing we know for sure is that whenever you have more people with guns, then the rate of guns deaths go up.”
“Really, Mary? That statement is not supported by any facts. Hell, it’s not even supported by the article in question.”
My facts are supported by the studies done by John Hopkins University.
The one thing I can say is that you’re always consistant with never letting the facts get in the way of your hysterical defense of guns, Hank.
You really shouldn’t get so emotional, it’s not good for your heart.
Isn’t using private email for state business not just foolish but also illegal?
“Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a BlackBerry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.”
Holy COW! preemptive effort at evasion of justice? There HAS to be law as to this.
Mary,
The number of gun deaths has remained about the same for the past 30 to 30 years. 10,000 shootings and about 20,000 suicides.
Yet the number of guns and gun owners keeps going up.
There is simply no correlation between more guns = more gun death like you try to say.
Should be 20 to 30 years.
Palin should be removed from office.
In areas where there is more gun ownership…like the South, there are more guns deaths per capita.
Indeed, for the first time I’ve known, Wikileaks is suffering the dreaded “Slashdot effect.” :)
More details:
The cache of stolen data contains five screenshots from Palin’s account, including the text of an e-mail exchange with Alaska Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell about his campaign for Congress.
Another screenshot shows Palin’s inbox and a third shows the text of an e-mail from Amy McCorkell, whom Palin appointed to the Governor’s Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse in 2007.
The e-mail, a message of support to Palin, tells her not to let negative press get to her and asks Palin to pray for McCorkell, who writes that “I need strength to 1. keep employment, 2. not have to choose.”
McCorkell, reached at her office, confirmed that she did send the e-mail to Palin. McCorkell later called and said the FBI has been in touch with her about this investigation.
A fourth screenshot shows an e-mail sent to Ivy Frye, a Palin aide, from someone claiming to belong to the group Anonymous advising that the person has changed the password to Palin’s Yahoo account to prevent other members of Anonymous from accessing it again. The e-mail includes the new password.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/group-posts-e-m.html
It’s actually possible to use a Blackberry with an official account, if you have the right configurations set up. Of course, there are security issues but–pfft!–if you’re willing to do official business on friggin’ Yahoo, who cares about that?
Some people have hacked into palin’s email account on yahoo! Which of course she conducts official business on so it can’t be subjected to review! What a hoot, going to have to see if I can run down any.
P.S. Since I’ve heard some of the “Anonymous” group are based in Tucson (rumor only, based upon an unrelated police report in Tucson Weekly), I should probably mention I have nothing to do with them!
Don’t argue with me, Nathan…I’m just referring the studies done by John Hopkins University and the CDC.
We have the highest incidence of gun deaths of any industrialized country in the world….we should be so proud!
Phantom, the site that archived the stuff is wikileaks.com, but don’t bother–the server is already overwhelmed.
Is it true that Palin had an affair with her husband’s business partner?
Looks like Rage was ‘agin’ private communications from being listened into (or read) until he was ‘fer’ it.
Guess being a hypocrite is standard leftist liberal fare.
For illegal spying activity as long as it’s someone you don’t like, eh Rage?
She should realize she lives in a glass bowl now..she’s fair game, just like any candidate.
For illegal spying activity as long as it’s someone you don’t like, eh Rage?
Wrong. Illegal is illegal. Those who do these types of things know that all too well, and even though it’s pretty damned hilarious, I don’t condone even arguably benign intrusions in a trusted system, nor do I condone revealing private, presonal communications.
But when state business is done via a private account, then it was never really private to begin with. The lawyers can argue over which emails should be free from public disclosure (either for privacy or confidentiality reasons), but state business at a mininum was something the legislative branch in Alaska had every right to see.
So what we have here really is two offenses, and I’m tempted to say the temporary intrusion was the lesser evil.
Subverting oversight by privatizing it is exactly what I would expect from people who have no respect for the law.
Another study on the effects of guns kept in the home by John Hopkins University:
http://www.jhsph.edu/gunpolicy/guns_in_home.pdf
Rage
Posted September 17, 2008 at 9:35 pm | Permalink
For illegal spying activity as long as it’s someone you don’t like, eh Rage?
Wrong. Illegal is illegal.
But when state business is done via a private account, then it was never really private to begin with…
———————————-
but but but…
When the illegal activity fits my ideological cup of tea says Rage, I’m all for spying on other people.
Hypocrite
When the illegal activity fits my ideological cup of tea says Rage, I’m all for spying on other people.
Of course, I didn’t imply that, but coming from a proven liar like you (many times over), who cares?
#
Rage
Posted September 17, 2008 at 9:42 pm | Permalink
When the illegal activity fits my ideological cup of tea says Rage, I’m all for spying on other people.
Of course, I didn’t imply that, but coming from a proven liar like you (many times over), who cares?
=============================
Lying according to who? The foul mouthed and the psychotic on this blog?
Hahahahaha!
You’re a hypocrite in self denial rage. One of the far left flip floppers who will switch on the dime, especially if it’s self one else’s dime.
Reguliar, your spin has all spun out… Rage says its illegal… that he doesnt condone it… and yet, you keep hammering away at thin air!!
Why cant you ADD something to the Blog, instead of being on constant ATTACK??? Too much military duty, or what??
Disgusting!!
Is it true that Palin had an affair with her husband’s business partner?
Maybe we’ll find out in her emails!
Didn’t Phelps hack into some state official’s emails a while back, and publish it. Seens like the person couldn’t do anything about it.
“For illegal spying activity as long as it’s someone you don’t like, eh Rage?
Wrong. Illegal is illegal.”
Well THIS should be interesting con gymnastics!
Spying on Americans is ok.
Political digging not so much.
I AM distressed that a private email account was hacked. But if we compare the level of offense?
If I trespass on your property, peer through your window, and see you raping a child? Yeah I’m in the wrong.
But the exposed wrong is SO much more important to know about.
THIS sinks Palin/McCain. They’re cooked.
#
Chas
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:03 pm | Permalink
Reguliar, your spin has all spun out… Rage says its illegal… that he doesnt condone it… and yet, you keep hammering away at thin air!!
Why cant you ADD something to the Blog, instead of being on constant ATTACK??? Too much military duty, or what??
Disgusting!!
———————————————-
How’s your varicose veins Chas? Do people get grossed out by your spider vein covered legs?
Didn’t Phelps hack into some state official’s emails a while back, and publish it. Seens like the person couldn’t do anything about it.
Don’t recall the exact statute, but breaking into an email account is (of course) a violation of federal law. Most of the time, investigations aren’t really given that much priority–if Maw and Paw get hacked, you’ll get to wait 45 minutes on the phone to regain access to your account, a report will be filed, and that’ll be it.
Pissing off the Secret Service is another matter entirely.
#
BlueJay
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:04 pm | Permalink
“For illegal spying activity as long as it’s someone you don’t like, eh Rage?
Wrong. Illegal is illegal.”
Well THIS should be interesting con gymnastics!
Spying on Americans is ok.
Political digging not so much.
I AM distressed that a private email account was hacked. But if we compare the level of offense?
If I trespass on your property, peer through your window, and see you raping a child? Yeah I’m in the wrong.
But the exposed wrong is SO much more important to know about.
THIS sinks Palin/McCain. They’re cooked.
——————————-
Here you go Rage.
Here’s your classic WE Blog psychotic, setting up a vile, disgusting scenario.
The sad thing about it, is that Junior will keep using that scenario over and over, dwelling on it, planning to slip it in to future discussions.
There’s your back up Rage.
Doesn’t it make it proud hypocrite?
Sounds like bush tactics of circumventing the govt. email system had spread all the way to alaska, and palin was doing the same thing.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/group-posts-e-m.html
Isn’t it great, guys? I think we’ve finally managed to carry on decent conversations even when there’s a monkey flinging doodoo at us!
Well, back to work. I’m outta here.
Have an nice evenin’ folks!
Cons. could care less if its the bush admin. doing the hacking, or getting into Americans emails. But when its one of their con. masters they get all indignant.
Rage
Posted September 17, 2008 at 9:19 pm | Permalink
Indeed, for the first time I’ve known, Wikileaks is suffering the dreaded “Slashdot effect.” :)
More details:
The cache of stolen data contains five screenshots from Palin’s account, including the text of an e-mail exchange with Alaska Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell about his campaign for Congress.
Another screenshot shows Palin’s inbox and a third shows the text of an e-mail from Amy McCorkell, whom Palin appointed to the Governor’s Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse in 2007.
The e-mail, a message of support to Palin, tells her not to let negative press get to her and asks Palin to pray for McCorkell, who writes that “I need strength to 1. keep employment, 2. not have to choose.”
McCorkell, reached at her office, confirmed that she did send the e-mail to Palin. McCorkell later called and said the FBI has been in touch with her about this investigation.
A fourth screenshot shows an e-mail sent to Ivy Frye, a Palin aide, from someone claiming to belong to the group Anonymous advising that the person has changed the password to Palin’s Yahoo account to prevent other members of Anonymous from accessing it again. The e-mail includes the new password.
******************************
Wow, none of the above is official business. Go ahead and excuse it, just don;t bother screaming about the right to privacy.
“Here’s your classic WE Blog psychotic, ”
Yeah and his nic (for now) is “Regular”.
Sarah Palin AND her staff used private email for government business with the apparently stated goal of preemptive evasion of justice.
Sarah Palin HAS to be the worst vetted and worst choice for political office in history. That McCain did NOT know this demonstrates that he is incompetent.
Tired of your typical Lib cartoonist? I like this Realist Cartoon.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=305846862931285
“Sarah Palin AND her staff used private email for government business with the apparently stated goal of preemptive evasion of justice”
I haven’t seen any of this. Please post.
Todd’s password was FeK9…, wonder how far these doggie fantasies invade their personal lives?
“1. keep employment, 2. not have to choose.”
What would that be, keep from getting fired by palin in retribution, pray that she won’t have to make a choice between loyalty and legality?
#
Phantom
Posted September 17, 2008 at 10:33 pm | Permalink
Todd’s password was FeK9…, wonder how far these doggie fantasies invade their personal lives?
======================
Interesting way to spell Iron Dog.
There was also one concerning ‘Ethics’ from one of her underlings requesting her approval.
My bad. I just grabbed a chunk of text from the article (GMC seems to think I craft these excerpts for maximum propaganda, hehehe!):
An index of the e-mails in her inbox, which includes sender, subject line and date sent, indicates that Palin received numerous e-mails from her aides in the governor’s office, some of which could be work-related.
An e-mail from her press secretary, Meghan Stapleton, indicates the message is about the “Motor Fuel Tax Suspension”.
The subject line of an e-mail from Randall Ruaro, her deputy chief of staff reads, “Draft letter to Governor Schwarzenegger.” Another one from Ruaro says, “Please approve” and another one is about “Court of Appeals Nominations.”
Other e-mails from Ruaro indicate they’re about employee and budget issues for the DPS. DPS is how Alaska refers to its Department of Public Safety.
Palin’s chief of staff, Michael Nizich, sent her an e-mail August 22 with the subject line, “Using Royalty Oil to Lower the Cost of Fuel for Alaskans.” The subject line of another e-mail from Nizich reads “CONFIDENTIAL Ethics Matter.”
E-mails from the governor’s scheduler, Janice Mason, indicate that they’re about Palin’s schedule for the week of August 10.
You didn’t see it littlejohn?
Here ya go.
“Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a BlackBerry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.” Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. A campaign spokesman said the governor copied e-mail messages to her state account “when there was significant state business.”
On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.” Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”
I’ve seen speculation that Republican hacked her email to try and make it inadmissable.
You libs seem pretty scared of this woman. It is an obsession for you….It is kinda cute really.
Off to do other things.
I’ll leave duh leftist libs here fencing their stolen ‘goods’ on the black market of secular ass biting market.
I’ve seen speculation that Republican hacked her email to try and make it inadmissable.
Can’t see how that’d work.
“On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.” Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”
Well we don’t want the vetting of public officials to be public record DO we?
Keep THAT in the dark!
Kinda like John McCain did with his vetting of Sarah Palin. Except I don’t think he was secretive.
He was incompetent.
I am out as well. This is petty, unintelligent, and irrelevant Lib land.
I suppose I should be glad I peeked back and caught littlejohn’s post, but it’s still a bad habit.
I’m gone.
Looking like palin’s star is fading.
“Polls taken after the Republican convention suggested that Mr. McCain had enjoyed a surge of support — particularly among white women after his selection of Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his running mate — but the latest poll indicates “the Palin effect” was, at least so far, a limited burst of interest. The contest appeared to be roughly where it was before the two conventions and before the vice-presidential selections: Mr. Obama had the support of 48 percent of registered voters, compared with 43 percent for Mr. McCain, a difference within the poll’s margin of sampling error, and statistically unchanged from the tally in the last New York Times/CBS News poll, in mid-August
I couldn’t see how it’d work either, unless you claimed that they could’ve been tampered with.
Looks to me like supoening the personal account would now have much more credence.
I can report that hate radio has been spinning this one all day.
“Invasion of privacy!!”
But NO talk of what is revealed by the invasion.
I’m reminded of a scene from the movie “Titanic”
Cons” But this ship can’t sink!”
Libs”She’s made of iron sir. I assure she can. And she will. It is a mathematical certainty.
“The subject line of an e-mail from Randall Ruaro, her deputy chief of staff reads, “Draft letter to Governor Schwarzenegger.” Another one from Ruaro says, “Please approve” and another one is about “Court of Appeals Nominations.”
Other e-mails from Ruaro indicate they’re about employee and budget issues for the DPS. DPS is how Alaska refers to its Department of Public Safety.
Palin’s chief of staff, Michael Nizich, sent her an e-mail August 22 with the subject line, “Using Royalty Oil to Lower the Cost of Fuel for Alaskans.” The subject line of another e-mail from Nizich reads “CONFIDENTIAL Ethics Matter.”
at least there is some smoke here. Maybe some violations. Certainly stupid, but I would guess that they all do it. SOmetimes with intent, sometimes with just carelessness.
Doesn;t excuse the hacker, though. and certainly some of what was posted on the website from the hacker was just that, personal. Even less excuse. But hey, let’s forget that, Palin mustg go down!!! HAHAHAH
GO ahead and scream about privacy.
Of course this is WAY secondary to Palin’s use of a private email to conduct public business as a preemptive measure to subvert justice.
Sarah Palin told Charlie Gibson that she accepted the nod for VP “without hesitation”.
But tonight? She had a DIFFERENT take for Sean Hannity.
It seems she took a poll of her minor children before accepting the nod.
Sheesh this man toy makes Dan Quayle look like Harry Truman.
THanks for the post RAGE.
Bet there’s a whole lot of “cleaning up the email accounts” going on in Alaska today.
Bet there’s a whole lot of “cleaning up the email accounts” going on in Alaska today.
AND EVERYWHERE ELSE
I’d read she tried to get her daughter to agree to get married to the baby’s father before accepting, but the daughter refused.
Maybe that’s what she was referring to.
Or, maybe after the interview with Gibson, she looked up the word ‘hubris’.
kInd of like the fake documents on bush, nothing in them was relevant anymore, those doc. were fake.
Rage posted September 17, 2008 at 10:37 pm
“Other e-mails from Ruaro indicate they’re about employee and budget issues for the DPS. DPS is how Alaska refers to its Department of Public Safety.”
———-
The McCain campaign recently said that the last straw for why Palin the fired the DPS commissioner Walt Monegan was that he wanted to get federal funding to help deal with Alaska’s rape problems.
‘Palin’s Anti-Rape-Investigation Stance Raised by McCain Campaign. Will Reporters Question?‘
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palins-anti-rape-investig_b_126763.html
“And now, today, in an attempt to say that the firing of former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan was not due to his refusing to fire Palin’s ex-brother-in-law, the McCain campaign actually tells the AP, “The last straw, the McCain campaign said, was in July, when Monegan planned to travel to Washington to seek federal money for a plan to assign troopers, judges and prosecutors who could exclusively handle sexual assault cases — one of the state’s most intractable crime problems.”
The McCain campaign paints this as a process story – that Monegan was going to DC to get money to prosecute rape, when the Governor didn’t OK that request. I’d say it raises a huge question.
Why is it that the Governor of the state with the highest per capita rate of forcible rape, who requested hundreds of billions in earmarks, not want to fight for Federal dollars to help law enforcement in the state investigate and prosecute rape?”
———-
A possible reason is given at the link.
How long until McCain dumps Sarah Palin?
Who does he tap to step up?
I opined here that Palin was SUCH a bad pick that she would not survive the convention.
I misunderestimated the capacity of the more far right to jump on a bandwagon…
….headed over a cliff!
Before bed, BlueJay gets out his violin and sends this one out to Sarah Palin.
BlueJay bows…..Nearer my god to thee….
ANTI posted September 17, 2008 at 10:44 pm
“You libs seem pretty scared of this woman. It is an obsession for you….It is kinda cute really.”
———–
I’m not “scared” of Palin. I’m annoyed and disgusted by her lies, record, and bad policies.
Checking back: thank you too, littlejohn.
In a way this may actually help Palin indeed, but I don’t think it was a Republican plant, unless they went out of their way to make it look that way. It look like your standard idiot teenagers.
While I can’t vouch for the validity of what follows, the same site has screenshots that sure as hell look real.
From the crackers’ (script kiddies’) mouths:
Anonymous: reposted from /b/ earlier. ..discuss
Jeffy: Please tell me you either forwarded or took screenshots of all the emails
Anonymous: No he didn’t. Epic fail.
Anonymous: HOW TO SAVE CACHE IN FIREFOX 3. about: cache. Then go under “disk cache device.” Click “list cache entries.” Find the pics by clicking the links once. Then again. SAVE AND POST F*GGOT
Anonymous: I wasn’t the hacker but I d’l’d the jpgs he posted.
Anonymous: /b/ has gone ratsh*t over this. I hope some white knight didn’t f*ck it up.
Anonymous: Sigh. . .that’s exactly what happened. I have the text of the first page of the Yahoo account. Not that it means sh*t right now.
http://gawker.com/photogallery/palinyahooemail/1003648516?viewSize=thumb800×800
Anonymous: Not OP. We have what’s in the incident folder, we’ve been compiling sh*t that was deleted in the first thread. No pass because the yahoo account are gone as of this morning. When it was originally OP gave the pass to /b/ and after some screenshots a moral f*g, changed the password, and the mods deleted all the evidence. Leaving us in the situation we are now.
Read this, it’s about her Yah*oo emails and using them to give away government secrets (which we saw in the Yah*oo account):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/09/AR2008090903044.html
“Sept. 9 – Gov. Sarah Palin is being asked by a local Republican activist to release more than 1,100 email she withheld from a public records request, including 40 that were copied to her husband, Todd.”
gawker.com/photogallery/palinyahooemail/1003648505?viewSize=thumb800×800
So. . .does “gone” mean the accounts were deleted, or just inaccessible? I suppose it’s not going to to be smooth sledding for the Governor either way, with the obvious evasion of public accountability.
But all kindsa information may have gone away as a result.
As a final note, the information on Gawker does a lot of obviously personal headers. It’s unsettling, but when you see email from officials marked “personal”–to distinguish them–you feel less bad.
P.S. Good evening, General Hayden.
umm. I looked at the screenshots on Gawker, didn;t see any of official business. Maybe my resolution ain’t so good?
night all
Crap: One last thing. It irritates me no end that the popular press persists in calling these types “hackers.”
Hacking is not breaking into people’s systems and/or screwing things up. That is cracking. Moreover, these days most crackers just using malicious software that’s already out there (thus called “script kiddies”). The people who wrote it might qualify as hackers–clever code warriors–but they are also crackers as well.
umm. I looked at the screenshots on Gawker, didn;t see any of official business. Maybe my resolution ain’t so good?
Most of what they got was headers, and only the first page, I guess. One of the group changed the password and sent an email to Palin’s aide, and things got shut down pretty quickly.
Good night; Good luck; God bless —-
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
So mote it be!!