Columnist George Will sees a bit of Lewis Carroll in John McCain’s apparently unfounded call for the head of Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, over the financial debacle. Will wrote: “For McCain, politics is always operatic, pitting people who agree with him against those who are ‘corrupt’ or ‘betray the public’s trust,’ two categories that seem to be exhaustive — there are no other people.” Will frets about McCain as president: “It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. (Barack Obama’s) unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?”
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216 Comments
Those who are willing to learn can grow and develop into very effective, productive, and high achieving people. Those who have rigid thinking and already know everything usually can’t bring much to the table. Plus, it’s hard to change someone’s basic personality.
I respect John McCain, but we need a new direction in this country. Obama may not be able to accomplish everything he wants…but at least he has vision, intelligence, and is willing to examine the underlying issues to the major problems in our country.
Typical lib comments about McCain who has so much more experience than Muslim Obama. We are all different and in no way does McCain fit the lib news view, nor myself.
The fact that you think Obama is a Muslim and that experience is the best indicator of who will make a great president shows how uninformed you are willing to be…please don’t vote.
George Bush was in politics a long time before he became a president and was the governor of Texas for how many years? So how has that worked out?
george are you referring to the views of George Will? He’s hardly a liberal.
McCain’s latest stunt/gaffe (a new achievement that may come to make the name McCain a verb) is so bizarre that it clearly demonstrates he is not fit to serve in public office, much less as President.
McCain needs tender care with qualified professionals.
#
george
Posted September 25, 2008 at 7:00 am | Permalink
Typical lib comments about McCain who has so much more experience than Muslim Obama. We are all different and in no way does McCain fit the lib news view, nor myself.
=========================================================
First, george, the comments were made by a conservative columnist, albeit a very intelligent one, which, for conservatives, is usually a stretch:-)
Second, george, Obama is not a Muslim; he is a Christian, as has been proven over and over, except, of course, to a limited number of brain dead morons, to which you obviously belong.
MaryC even Obama has said muslim until he was corrected by a reporter to say christian.
McCain does like to shoot from the lip, something Biden has been accused of numerous times. The difference is McCain’s biting verbal attacks come from an out of control temper. Biden’s come from his talking too much.
McCain is only showing his political side in this latest maneuver. I suspect the real reason behind this ‘having to go to Washington to solve this crisis’ has more to do with the McCain campaign hoping to get the VP debate off the table. After all, wasn’t it the McCain camp that said the debate could be postponed until – guess what – it was the same night as the VP debate.
McCain has been reported as a hot head and not many of his own party like him. Not because he is a reformer or maverick – but because of his temperament and rude behavior.
I suspect if McCain’s poll numbers continue slipping, we will see even more of McCain’s temper.
David Letterman made a good point last night, why did McCain have to suspend the campaign? Isn’t it the VP’s job to step up and carry on in the President’s absence?
The bailout bill is close to being negotiated into a bill that will pass but yet McCain has to drop everything and run to Washington?
BTW, McCain did not leave New York last night as he told David Letterman – McCain was on with Katie Couric at CBS and is meeting with Bill Clinton this morning in New York. Why the Letterman ditch?
MaryC even Obama has said muslim until he was corrected by a reporter to say christian. So which is he really?
sunflower5
Posted September 25, 2008 at 7:46 am | Permalink
MaryC even Obama has said muslim until he was corrected by a reporter to say christian
Come now sunflower5,
They were talking about the issue of Obama’s Muslim father and the Muslim faith and the fact that the Republicans are constantly accusing him of being a Muslim. Most rational people knew that Obama mistakenly said Muslim when he obviously meant to say Christian.
And where in the Constitution does it say the President has to be Christian? I know several Muslims who are very devout and moderate. I also know alot of Evangelical Christians who are radical in their views. Which would I prefer to be president – the non radical one.
Isn’t Sarah Palin considered one of those radical Evangelical Christians? Some might consider her to be just as bad as a radical Muslim?
Where’s franklin to tell us Obama is a Muslim terrorist? I expect he’ll be along shortly, right after he figures out which way is East, so he can kneel and pray.
mom
Posted September 25, 2008 at 7:57 am
Isn’t Sarah Palin considered one of those radical Evangelical Christians? Some might consider her to be just as bad as a radical Muslim?
=========================
Oh yeah, those radical Assembly of God people from Wasilla, Alaska. I hear they went to another country, hijack some aircraft, flew it into some buildings and killed several thousand people.
—————
Folks, ya just can’t fix stupid.
Obama, being the chosen darling of the media in my opinion, could have done exactly the same thing as McCain. The difference is it would have been reported as the supreme personal sacrifice for his country and the mark of a true leader of his people. It’s sad really how one candidate is always propped up, the other always reported in the negative, and any third or fourth candidates totally ignored.
Oh yeah, those radical Assembly of God people from Wasilla, Alaska. I hear they went to another country, hijack some aircraft, flew it into some buildings and killed several thousand people.
—————
Folks, ya just can’t fix stupid
____
REgular – Palin is staunchy anti-abortion and there have been radical Evangelicals in that group that have bombed clinics and target doctors for assassination. I am just asking the question if she believes the same way? After all, birds of a feather flock together.
BTW – those 9/11 most of the hijackers were from Saudia Arabia and the last time I looked, Bush and his entire family are very cozy with the Saudis. Why hasn’t Bush ever pressured the Saudis to come clean about their own terrorists?
If Sarah would’ve pulled a mccain, everyone would of said, see women are too flighty and unstable, it must be a biological thing!
Mccain came off looking like chicken little.
I’ve noticed a weird look to his eyes lately, strange gaze, I think he’s lost it.
Hey sunflower – if you think only Christians need apply, then you would not have liked George Washington when he was president.
George Washington and many other Founding Fathers were Deists – not Christians.
mom
Posted September 25, 2008 at 8:36 am
REgular – Palin is staunchy anti-abortion and there have been radical Evangelicals in that group that have bombed clinics and target doctors for assassination.
———————————————
Yeah mom, name the people of Palin’s congregation that have been involved in bombing clinics and targeting doctors for assassination.
—————-
Folks, ya just can’t fix stupid.
Noted without comment: the video from David Letterman last night regarding John McCain’s decision to skip his scheduled appearance because he was “suspending his campaign.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E
Letterman may, indeed, consistently finish behind Leno. But that doesn’t mean I’d want to have him mad at me.
Phantom – what I find interesting is that McCain’s campaign suggested rescheduling the debate to the night of the VP debate. Wonder why?
Perhaps they didn’t want Palin in public? Like Regular said – you can’t fix stupid.
Regular – you’re just grasping for straws because McCain blew it big time with his impulsiveness.
And how do I know if her congregation does not sympathize with these radical Evangelical clinic bombers? Just because I cannot name any of them does not mean that you can name any of them that aren’t. That’s about the extent of your argument.
REgular – your constant name calling and putdowns are no longer working. Bush and gang has done that for the last 8 years and guess what – the people have wised up. The time of bullying is over.
Hopefully you have seen the tapes showing Palin’s Minister hoping to cast witches out of her with congregation members laying their hands on her to
accomplish the deed.
And of course you’ve seen the Palin interview with
Couric where she showed she had no knowledge of McCain’s stint in Washington.
Third how about the developing story of R Davis the lobbyist for Freddie Mac. He was suddenly unavailable for interviews. He probably had to go
to DC with McCain to engineer the fat cat bailout.
But I do know one thing – Palin has stated that her views are no abortions for any reason – not even in the cases of rape or incest. That is a pretty radical view in anyone’s book.
And how do I know if her congregation does not sympathize with these radical Evangelical clinic bombers? Just because I cannot name any of them does not mean that you can name any of them that aren’t. That’s about the extent of your argument.
========
By that logic, BlueJay is a bomber sympathizer. I mean he actually DID protest at the clinics and was among the others in his anger at the abortion clinics. BlueJay=Terrorist.
And how do I know if her congregation does not sympathize with these radical Evangelical clinic bombers?
Guilty until proven innocent. How American of you.
How do I know that you don’t masterbate large farm animals. Must be true then. Hope you wash your hands when you’re done :-b
Chas is a Pastor at a Christian Church. He must also be a bomber sympathizer! They are in your own ranks libs! Chase=Christian Fundy Terrorist BlueJay=Terrorist……..You better distance yourself from these folks!
samkan – why is it that only the Republicans see a bias in the media and only Evangelical Christians see the persecution of them at Christmas time?
Perhaps it is the way you are perceiving the news media – your own bias is showing?
or are libs just hypocrites?
mom…
Not everyone believes that George Washington was a Deist, not that it matters, he was definately a Godly man.
What do others say about George Washington? I will post this without comment:
“First in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen, was also first as a Christian hero and statesman. His Christian faith and sentiments pervaded his life, formed his character, guided all his private and public acts, and were repeated and recorded in every variety of form in all his state papers. He regarded Christianity not only as a divine system, worthy of the confidence of all men, and essential to man’s happiness here and hereafter, but he profoundly felt, and everywhere taught, that all good government must be founded and administered in conformity to its benign and heavenly precepts. It is a suggestive fact that Washington, who led the armies of the Revolution to final victory, who presided in the council that formed the old Articles of Confederation, who was president of the convention that formed the Constitution, and who was the first President elected to administer the government, was a devout Christian. He has had more to do in shaping the destinies of the American Government and nation than all others combined, and in every official act he diffused the spirit and proclaimed, directly or indirectly, the principles of religion. This historical fact is unprecedented in the annals of the world, and displays the guiding hand of God in raising up and qualifying such a Christian leader for the American nation. ”
Benjamin F Morris
“Obama, being the chosen darling of the media in my opinion, could have done exactly the same thing as McCain.”
—–
Obama is like the rest of the world in that he can conduct business from wherever he happens to be, using today’s technology. Further, he stated clearly that if there was something / anything he could do he would be wherever / whenever he was needed.
mom, I think you hit the nail on the head! McCain needed another Hail Mary and a delay in the VP debate. This political move is designed to accomplish both.
perhaps mom.. if my bias is showing… your bias is Glowing!! I am definately biased toward Christians… McCain, not so much.
mom
Posted September 25, 2008 at 8:46 am | Permalink
Regular – you’re just grasping for straws because McCain blew it big time with his impulsiveness.
And how do I know if her congregation does not sympathize with these radical Evangelical clinic bombers? Just because I cannot name any of them does not mean that you can name any of them that aren’t. That’s about the extent of your argument
***********************************8
So Mom, when and where was the last clinic bombinb, who were the bombers, and when was the last attempted doctor assinaiton by an evangelical. No googling please. Just show us how much you know.
Obama wouldn’t want to go to D.C. and vote present….that would look pretty bad, so he will stay at his hotel room, do some light reading, and maybe shoot some hoops. Leadership.
Multi-tasking, using the tools available to conduct all the varied tasks and responsibilities on your plate will make you successful in your endeavors, and is one attribute of a person capable of leading.
Obama is like the rest of the world in that he can conduct business from wherever he happens to be, using today’s technology.
SO indeed, BUsh did not need to head straight to Washington after 9/11?
Mccain’s epitaph “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when our campaign employs lobbyist, trained and paid to deceive”
THe Democratic party Hero Bill CLinton had this to say
“We know he didn’t do it because he’s afraid because Sen. McCain wanted more debates,” Clinton said, adding that he was “encouraged” by the joint statement from McCain and Sen. Barack Obama.”
are libs just hypocrites?
“SO indeed, BUsh did not need to head straight to Washington after 9/11?”
—–
Actually, I have always thought reading “My Pet Goat” kept him busy for awhile and I’ve never seen his involvement in world affairs as being something desirable.
“Multi-tasking, using the tools available to conduct all the varied tasks and responsibilities on your plate will make you successful in your endeavors, and is one attribute of a person capable of leading.”
As does voting “present” in the state legislator, apparently.
“Multi-tasking, using the tools available to conduct all the varied tasks and responsibilities on your plate will make you successful in your endeavors, and is one attribute of a person capable of leading.”
As does voting “present” in the state legislator, apparently.
Vote Present Obama, that’s Leadership with a capitol “L”.
“Columnist George Will”
Gee, I didn’t realize that Will was a CommieLib.
Actually, I have always thought reading “My Pet Goat” kept him busy for awhile and I’ve never seen his involvement in world affairs as being something desirable.
Nice deflection. Doesn;t wash
McCain is everything and more that George Will has to say. He should not be in the White House.
Christians have always wanted to claim George Washington as one of their own. Washington and many other Founding Fathers were Deists.
Washington was a godly man but not necessarily Christian. Why does it matter? The Constitution guarantees us the right to freedom of religion. This means that Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Mormonism and even Muslim are welcome to worship freely. Why do Christians insist on thinking we are just a Christian nation?
I am a Christian but I do not believe that my faith dictates to others. And I strongly believe church and state should be separate.
samkan – perhaps Benjamin Morris was one of those Christians were trying to claim Washington as one of their own?
As you said, if Washington was a Deist or Christian it doesn’t matter. But he was a godly man but being godly does not mean one has to ram their particular view of god down their neighbor’s throat.
“Nice deflection. Doesn;t wash”
——
But your deflection to what bush did upon hearing of the second plane flying into the World Trade Center was OK? Uh huh. My opinion is as good and as useless as yours. My deflection was at least as successful as yours too.
Obama is the best man for the job. McCain has tried every low handed trick in the game and his appearance in Washington is another con game. The con game is what got us into this mess and I wish people would be braver (like Obama) and not let the race haters bring America down. We need to fix the problems and take off where Bill Clinton left us.
#
mom
Posted September 25, 2008 at 9:13 am | Permalink
As you said, if Washington was a Deist or Christian it doesn’t matter. But he was a godly man but being godly does not mean one has to ram their particular view of god down their neighbor’s throat.
============================================
Who is ramming what down your throat?
Palin is on the ticket with McCain.
I haven’t seen any change in my life nor will I see any after they are elected to any great extent.
Folks, ya just can’t fix stupid.
Linda-
Whatever, keep your partisan blinders on. You’ll feel the better for it. It won;t fix anything, but you will feel better.
The point was, you were making statements that McCain didn;t need to go to Washington because of today’s technology. However, there was plenty of hubris on this board and elsewhere, about BUsh not immediately to Washington after 9/11. I would guess the technology aboard AF1 is far more extant than McCain has available. It was a single point issue. Youir distraction about Bush’s capabilities added nothing to the discussion, except your disatisfaction of Bush.
But whatever, it;s a free country. Do what you got to do!
Mccain’s the man, he says he’s going to Washington, to get the deal done, stock market goes up 230 pts. the next morning!
That’ll be the next campaign ad.
Regular – I told you putdowns and name calling are not going to work this time around or you just always this ignorant and obnoxious?
As for changes in people’s lives, maybe you don’t realize how many people are hurting in this economy (or maybe you just don’t care).
This bailout plan will affect everyone and if you think more of the same will fix everything – then by all means vote for McCain/Palin.
Bush acted cowardly, virtually going into hiding for a week. Congress showed some guts assembling on the capitol steps, reassuring America.
Not quite the same situation.
We have seen what happens to our economy when Republican deregulation philosophies are actually put in practice.
Enough!
“Bush acted cowardly, virtually going into hiding for a week. Congress showed some guts assembling on the capitol steps, reassuring America”
DIfferent discussion, different point. But hey, whatever.
Pundits are saying America is losing its financial superpower status. Others will be filling our role.
Let’s see, we lost our Manufacturing Superpower status, Now we’re losing our Financial Superpower status, soon we’ll be like Russia and just have our Nuclear Superpower status.
mom…
MOST Christians do not “ram their views down their neighbor’s throat” as your overused comment suggests. Most of us just try to live out our Christian lives doing what Christians are supposed to do. I just posted that quote to let you know that not everyone agrees with you and that there is a possibility that you could also have views that are not correct. Noone is perfect other than the Lord. In my daily dealings I make it a point NOT to push my beliefs on anyone, but to let Jesus Christ draw them through the caring He shows through my actions.
The difference is it would have been reported as the supreme personal sacrifice for his country and the mark of a true leader of his people.
Isn’t this exactly the reason McCain is saying he’s doing it?
mom
Posted September 25, 2008 at 9:27 am | Permalink
Regular – I told you putdowns and name calling are not going to work this time around or you just always this ignorant and obnoxious?
——————–
Stop writing stupid, willfully bigoted and ignorant sentences then.
Mccain had to stay in N.Y. to talk at C.G.I., Obama’s now giving his speech there via satelite (isn’t technology wonderful?)
Yeah mom, name the people of Palin’s congregation that have been involved in bombing clinics and targeting doctors for assassination.
And I’m sure you have a long list of people in Obama’s congregation who have flown planes into tall buildings, Regular.
Noone is perfect other than the Lord. In my daily dealings I make it a point NOT to push my beliefs on anyone, but to let Jesus Christ draw them through the caring He shows through my actions.
Um, Sam? While I respect both you and your beliefs and faith, didn’t you just do in the first sentence what you said you didn’t do in your second?
#
Predestined
Posted September 25, 2008 at 9:42 am | Permalink
Yeah mom, name the people of Palin’s congregation that have been involved in bombing clinics and targeting doctors for assassination.
And I’m sure you have a long list of people in Obama’s congregation who have flown planes into tall buildings, Regular.
==========================
Never said there was, now did I?
Folks, ya just can’t fix stupid.
Just showing the stupidity in your reasoning, Regular.
>Um, Sam? While I respect both you and your beliefs and faith, didn’t you just do in the first sentence what you said you didn’t do in your second?<
I don’t think so. that wasn’t the intent anyway.
Chas and BlueJay are terrorist sympathizers. One a Christian Pastor, the other a self proclaimed abortion protester.
“Let’s see, we lost our Manufacturing Superpower status, Now we’re losing our Financial Superpower status, soon we’ll be like Russia and just have our Nuclear Superpower status.”
Except Russia still has undepleted natural resources. We are frittering ours away.
Russia may raise up like the albatross from the ashes of our melt down.
I like Chris Cox.
People I like often have disagreements.
It is not at all unusual for strong leaders to demand accountability.
I am not sure what fault Cox has, in this matter, however.
I would say that I have never liked “CMO” or Collateralized Mortgage Obligations, because, frankly, I don’t really understand them very well, after countless hours of study and training.
When you buy a traditional Corporate, Government or Municipal bond you know what you are getting.
With a mortgage pool? Not so much. You can’t list credit ratings of all the mortgage holders in the prospectus. Also, the entire financial industry is very aware when a State or a Corporation has a change in credit rating. We are clueless when such changes happen to individuals.
I do not understand how to do the “due dilligence” on these things, or how to monitor them, after I get into one. And that is just on the “mortgage pool” or mutual fund of mortgages.
The “CMO” concept takes it one step further.
I wonder if we should ever have allowed this type of security, in the first place?
However, that is more of a legislative than a regulatory question, and Congress WANTED a way to finance “affirmative action mortgages” — that is the REASON we have these CMO securities that nobody wants anymore!
Russia may raise up like the albatross from the ashes of our melt down
Phoenix.
and Congress WANTED a way to finance “affirmative action mortgages”
Just remember – Congress was run by the Republics from 1995-2007.
Yes, I caught my mistake, got a head ache.
Russia a large sea bird?
“samkan
Posted September 25, 2008 at 9:54 am | Permalink
>Um, Sam? While I respect both you and your beliefs and faith, didn’t you just do in the first sentence what you said you didn’t do in your second?<
I don’t think so. that wasn’t the intent anyway.”
I’ll back up Sam here. From what I have seen he is one of those who would show by example – compassion and kindness – rather then preaching.
‘Attraction not promotion’
Phanton – the Phoenix is the symbolic bird of my home town. Atlanta rose from the ashes of war to greater glory.
The risk of taking on a mortgage portfolio was countered by the buyer taking out a form of ‘insurance’ in a CDS, Where the purchaser of the mortgages paid a regular premium to the seller of the package, when default happened, it fell back on the seller to make the default good.
I’ve read the insurance industry didn’t recognize the CDS as a legitimate form of insurance, it was one of those creative financing things dreamed up in the go go years of the bush admin.
#
Predestined
Posted September 25, 2008 at 9:52 am | Permalink
Just showing the stupidity in your reasoning, Regular.
===============================
It must be national ‘air head’ day.
Sorry, Ben, but preaching is preaching. I don’t hold it against Sam. He not only talks the talk, he walks the walk. He’s a good man, no matter what his faith, religion, or anything else. We are all better because of him and people like him.
It must be national ‘air head’ day.
And you’re obviously celebrating your day! Enjoy!
mom
You are completey ignorant about the faith of our founders:
Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html
Believe also third parties could sell the protection. Bills coming due, think that’s a lot of the cascading problem. Also, don’t regular banks now have off book financing activities? That’s probably the challenge they face to their liquidity.
Ben
“Affirmative Action Mortgages” were pushed by the Clinton administration, and these “easy money” loans have always been supported by the vast majority of Democrats, in Congress.
The rules were enacted when realestate prices were going up, and when Democrats had the votes to do it.
It was a time bomb, set to go off when housing prices went down!
#
bth
Posted September 25, 2008 at 10:10 am | Permalink
Phanton – the Phoenix is the symbolic bird of my home town. Atlanta rose from the ashes of war to greater glory.
—————————
Are you ’sure man?”
(prods Ben)
Can we get a thread on McCain’s pull out of the debate? Word is the McCain camp is wanting the 1st Obama/McCain debate to be held next Thursday when Palin was supposed to debate Biden.
As Dave Letterman was saying, this whole deal is really smelly.
Since Hong Kong and China are large financial centers along with Dubai, they’ll probably be likely to step in and fill the void, or maybe it’ll just get more equally distributed in the ‘Global World Economy’.
OK Pre… I’ll bite… explain to me what I “preached” and maybe I’ll understand. Right now I just don’t see it.
Maybe it was just my tone of typing? LOL!
by the way… thanks Ben :)
low handed game?
Obama is using the old “plausable deniability” ruse.
Obama uses scum like “Winner” (who is friends with Axelrod) to do FAKE “astroturff” internet advertising, using false personal attacks against Palin:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194180.php
After Jawa detected that the voice, on the fake, “astroturff” advertising sounded like the same voice that Axelrod uses, in Obama advertising, lots of funny things happened.
Wiki had several deletions, in the sections covering Axelrod and “Astroturff” advertising.
Many YouTube posts were quickly deleted, especially anything showing a connection between Winner and Axelrod and Obama!
“george” on George Will of all people –
“Typical lib comments about McCain who has so much more experience than Muslim Obama. “
Troll.
Or, if not, someone who needs to sign up for the Senior Special Olympics.
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 10:05 am | Permalink
I would say that I have never liked “CMO” or Collateralized Mortgage Obligations, because, frankly, I don’t really understand them very well, after countless hours of study and training.
=========================================================
Wow, for once, we agree on something. But I would take it a step further: CMO’s and CDO’s are labeled under the generic term, derivatives. Derivatives include securities, CDO’s, CMO’s, mortgages, and a whole list of finds, loans, and pretty much anything else Wall Street wants to throw into the mix.
The total value of these derivatives awash on the world market equals 1.4 QUADRILLION dollars. That’s 1000 trillion dollars. Approximately half are secured, with the other half over the counter, or unsecured, therefore, unregulated. Anyone besides me see a problem there? Derivatives were designed by a couple of professors at MIT and another college that escapes me at the moment. NOBODY fully understands them.
The total world output in dollars is around 63 trillion. If the value of the derivatives drop 3% . . . well, you figure it out. Point is, it could put the world into a deep depression.
For a quick lesson on derivatives, try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative
Then, take two Quaaludes and call me in the morning.
Bottom line is our government, both Republican and Democrat, allowed this to happen, and we’re seeing the tip of the iceberg. I’m afraid 700 billion isn’t going to be nearly enough, and the rest of the world will have to bite the bullet as well.
And that isn’t taking the rest of the world off the hook: they have as much to blame in this as we do. Jobs WILL be lost, companies will close, and there is not much the government is going to be able to do about it, other than bailing them out at taxpayer expense.
The big three are closing a deal with our government to loan them 25 billion. The payback to the government will be delayed for five years. Purpose of the loan? So they can retro fit to produce cars meeting the new American CAFE standards.
Problem? Big time: Europe and Japan already standards in place for CAFE standards of 40 mpg and better. While government is highly involved in business in those countries, this is not a foreign country: it is a capitalist country. Capitalism means businesses succeed and fail, and it is the responsibility of business, such as the big three, to plan for such things.
Bottom line on these loans? I want a FREE new car, after all, I’m paying for it with my taxes!!!
Has Obama actually ever spelled out what this new direction is that he plans to take the country other than that Bush and everyone from his party is wrong?
Why does Obama get a free pass on the economy when he provides virtually ZERO leadership in explaining how the Bush (i.e. Republican) policies were bad and His policies are going to save the day?
As far as I have read and heard, the only difference of significance between Obama and Bush on the economy is that Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich. Sorry but that is no solution.
Deregulation did not cause this fiasco. It was the exact opposite. Reference Franklin’s post at 10:19 am. Obfuscating the problem by incorrectly scapegoating deregulation does nothing to rectify this financial crisis.
Let me put this in the simplest terms possible for you about Obama. It is 4 words..
OBAMA IS NOT MUSLIM
Ok? Have we got that?
No probably not because the people in this city are flipping idiots… But I can always hope you understand four simple capitalized words..
*sigh*
News from the Votemaster
McCain Suspends Campaign, Cancels First Debate
“…McCain has been in the Senate 25 years. He knows precisely what will happen if he barges into the office of Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), chairman of the Senate banking committee and announces: “OK, Outta here, I’m taking over now. Dodd’s reaction would not be printable on a family Website like this one and McCain would be instantly and unceremoniously shown the door. There are two people responsible for writing banking bills: Dodd and his House counterpart Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA). If Dodd wants input from the Republicans on this, he will ask the ranking member on his committee, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL). McCain and Obama play no role and McCain knows that very well.”
To Debate or Not to Debate, that is the Question
“…It is not clear yet what will happen in Mississippi tomorrow evening if McCain does not back down. For starters, SurveyUSA already published a poll on whether the debate should take place yesterday. Three quarters of the voters want the debate to happen; only 10% want to cancel it. About 36% would like the focus to be changed to the economy. It is possible that as a “compromise” McCain agrees to changing the topic to the economy so the later debates, closer to the election, focus on national security, his strength. In fact, his whole game plan might have been to switch the subjects. But it is risky because if the first debate is about the economy and Obama does well, many people may make up their minds, cast their vote early, and not watch the other debates.”
more at:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Sep25.html
But McCain’s other strategy continues:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/100/story/53024.html
The flap over students’ voting rights comes after Democrats last week filed a lawsuit in Michigan, seeking a court order barring Republicans from using lists of people facing mortgage foreclosure proceedings as a basis for challenging their voting eligibility. Michigan Republicans denied using foreclosure lists to cast doubt about voters’ qualifications.
And in Ohio, a pivotal state that was mired in allegations of voting irregularities in the 2004 presidential election, Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner on Wednesday advised county election boards that foreclosure lists should not be considered proof that voters have changed residences.
“Ohioans faced with the pain and turmoil of a home foreclosure should not be targeted by the forces of disenfranchisement on Election Day,” Brunner said.
McCain reminds me of an updated Mr. Carlson from “WKRP in Cincinnati”. He repeated tries to fix his failing endeavors with the perfect stunt, but all he ends up with is a bunch of dead turkeys.
StevenEDavis
Posted September 25, 2008 at 10:21 am | Permalink
Can we get a thread on McCain’s pull out of the debate?
========================
Steven Davis said ‘pull out’.
Rep. Alcee Hastings told an audience of Jewish Democrats Wednesday that they should be wary of Republican VP nominee Sarah Palin because “anybody toting guns and stripping moose don’t care too much about what they do with Jews and blacks.”
“If Sarah Palin isn’t enough of a reason for you to get over whatever your problem is with Barack Obama, then you damn well had better pay attention,” Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida said before a panel about the shared agenda of Jewish and African-American Democrats Wednesday. Hastings, who is African-American, was explaining what he intended to tell his Jewish constituents about the presidential race. “Anybody toting guns and stripping moose don’t care too much about what they do with Jews and blacks. So, you just think this through,” Hastings added as the room erupted in laughter and applause.
——————————–
This statement is of course not rascist and is perfectly ok to say because it is a liberalism and therefore not ‘preaching’. Just as Chass did last night about the word Obomination and the phrase The One. So proper vernacular is determined by the politics of the poster and not by the actual words. The fact that Obomination came from the pen of a black journalist means nothing because that black isn’t black enough as Thomas Sowell isn’t and JC Watts isn’t and Clarence Thomas isn’t and Condolezza Rice isn’t… And Hastings is allowed to compare Jews and Blacks to moose because ‘he is black enough’.
Imagine the outrage today is one of our ‘not black enough’ black had said the same thing.
We would have Chass telling that we are rascist as he did last night about the Obomination word.
So mom preach on, ignore the real problem, refuse to see blame is on both sides of the aisle. When we do lose more prestige in the world and/or Obama becomes prez we can sit back and say those dastardly cons did this.
And just for the record I think that McCain not going on Letterman was a smart move. Why put yourself in the position he did on the view. Let the libs eat their own. Don’t furnish them red meat.
A very interesting interview by Bill Clinton. He thinks the debate needs to be revamped to include the economy or delayed. He also says very clearly that the dems hold a large part of the blame here.
Listen to it for yourself:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/
For once I agree with Clinton. He has a very good bipartisan opinion on what should happen.
Lets be clear:
Alcee Hastings, as a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, was part of the “conscience of Fannie Mae”.
From bth’s link:
WASHINGTON — Colorado Democrats accused a Republican county clerk Wednesday of falsely informing Colorado College that students from outside the state could not register to vote if their parents claimed them as a dependent on their tax returns.
At a news conference in Colorado Springs, Democrats also criticized Robert Balink, the El Paso County clerk and recorder, who was a delegate to the Republican National Convention, for taking other steps they said would dampen voting by college students, who are expected to heavily favor Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.
“When election officials spread false information about who is eligible to vote and remove, not add, polling places, we need to be concerned that eligible voters will be denied their right to vote,” said Pat Waak, chairwoman of the Colorado Democratic Party.
Balink issued a statement saying his office had misinterpreted state law and “mistakenly published information that was incorrect.”
There have been such antics in Virginia, too:
The clarification was prompted in part by a news release issued by E. Randall Wertz, voter registrar in Montgomery County, which is home to Virginia Tech.
Election officials in Montgomery raised temperatures when they issued a news release in late August saying college students who register to vote there cannot be claimed as dependents on their parents’ income-tax returns — a statement that the Internal Revenue Service says is incorrect, according to The New York Times.
The Montgomery release also said college students who register to vote there could risk losing residence-based scholarships.
After the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia complained about the news release, calling it untrue and “sort of an intimidation tactic to discourage students from voting in local elections,” the Montgomery County registrar issued a revised statement, to say his office is prohibited from offering advice on student benefits.
The ACLU then sent a letter to 32 registrars in areas where college students are likely to live, urging the officials to let students register to vote where they attend school.
http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/state_regional/article/elections_board_has_no_answers_for_students/8563/
Did McCain finally get on a plane to Washington, or is he still in New York, telling the national media how urgent it is that he get to Washington?
Has Obama stepped out of his hotel room?
Democrats like voter fraud.
Voter fraud usually helps Democrats.
Will Obama take his teleprompter with him, to the White House meeting with Bush?
Residency Requirements
In Kansas, your voting residence is your place of habitation to which you intend to return after being away. For many years, Kansas law has recognized that people have the right to change their residence, either temporarily or permanently. Intent to become a resident is the key factor in establishing residency.
Students who lived in Kansas prior to attending school and who wish to establish or keep their Kansas voting residency (i.e., at their parents’ Kansas address) should have no problem doing so, unless they’ve already registered to vote in another state. Like all states, Kansas allows students to keep their voting residency even if they move out of the county or state to attend school. The only way you might lose this residency is if you “abandon” it by asserting residency in a new state. While registering to vote in another state is not automatically considered an abandonment of your Kansas residency, some judges or officials might view it as such.”
http://www.brennancenter.org/studentvoting/states/kansas
Rage not sure what this article is saying but I do know that in Kansas if you keep your permanent address as Kansas you can vote by absentee ballot in Kansas.
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:46 am | Permalink
Democrats like voter fraud.
Voter fraud usually helps Democrats.
====
From the cradle to the grave, HE HE HE!
““Let’s see, we lost our Manufacturing Superpower status, Now we’re losing our Financial Superpower status, soon we’ll be like Russia and just have our Nuclear Superpower status.”
Except Russia still has undepleted natural resources. We are frittering ours away.”
Heh. And all those subsidies for irrigated corn and the like are not keeping our status as the Agricultural Superpower either. You’d be amazed how much of our food supply we import.
Under less than safe conditions, I might add.
melamine anyone?
Yep Franklin I think he has one of those new battery powered ones. You know taking advantage of the new updated technology.
Generally, a college student may either retain their “voting residency” in the home state, and vote by absentee ballot there; or, may register to vote in the state where the college they attend is located, and vote there. So long as the student does one or the other only, there is no “fraud” involved.
Rage not sure what this article is saying. . .
Why am I not surprised? If you can’t understand something written that clearly and unambiguously, that explains a lot.
By the way, I moved back to Kansas when I first attended college. . .and voted in Kansas that year. Nobody tried to stop me, and I wouldn’t have let them if they had.
Thank you, vt. I did of course have to register in Kansas, which I did immediately.
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:48 am | Permalink
Will Obama take his teleprompter with him, to the White House meeting with Bush?
=======
Nah, the libs had a “pull string” installed in Obamas back.
Obama took his teleprompter to the rodeo.
“speaking bull to bulls”
Generally, if you only vote in ONE PLACE AT A TIME, you probably are not violating the law.
You live where you SAY you live, but you can only live in one place at a time, for voting purposes.
Generally, if you only vote in ONE PLACE AT A TIME, you probably are not violating the law.
Duh, yeah.
Point to a single documented instance of someone voting in two separate places in the same election.
Then find some proof that’s it’s really a problem.
P.S. Then find some proof that denying the vote to college students based upon the asinine criteria given in Colorado and Virginia actually prevents double-voting.
Rage I’m still not sure what you are implying but the usual lib answer to something that puts the kabosh on the tale they are telling is sarcasm. You see then you don’t have to argue logic.
Keeping your Kansas address when away at college lets you keep your Kansas DL. You have to change it if you register in another state and change your residency. You would have to come off your parents auto insurance and in some cases their medical insurance. You would not be able to keep Kansas based scholarships if they were awarded for your residency in Kansas. These are just some of the ramifications students could have if they changed there residency state.
Not saying it is a bad thing but this is one of the things absentee ballots were created for. No one challenged your right to vote to my knowledge. Pull in the fangs take off the blinders.
Rage
It happens quite a bit, with the liberal “snow birds” from New York and the North East, traveling to Florida, yet voting in BOTH places.
Well it appears to me this settles it for the libs.
The rich American libs love to put on the pulpit is supporting the plan of George Bush’s executive branch.
Comments from Warren Buffet!
“Last week we were at the brink of something that would have made anything that’s happened in financial history look pale,” Buffett said on “Squawk Box.” “We were very, very close to a system that was totally dysfunctional and would have not only gummed up the financial markets, but gummed up the economy in a way that would take us years and years to repair. We’ve got enough problems to deal with anyway. I’m not saying the Paulson plan eliminates those problems. But it was absolutely, and is absolutely necessary, in my view, to really avoid going over the precipice.”
For Chrissake, man, if our so called Republican congressinal leaders are frozen like deer in the headlights, send in John Mccain to tell them how to vote on the bail out!
And, if need be call in John’s son, the Audit Committee Director of Silver State Bank, that failed two months after mccain’s son resigned for ‘personal reasons’.
“Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:57 am | Permalink
Generally, if you only vote in ONE PLACE AT A TIME, you probably are not violating the law.
You live where you SAY you live, but you can only live in one place at a time, for voting purposes.”
A agree Paul. Problem is, these officials were telling people that they cannot register where they currently live.
“Martha Tierney, an attorney for the Colorado Democratic Party, said she obtained emails showing that Balink’s office sent a misleading flier to the Colorado College president’s office to provide students with voter-registration information and urged its circulation on campus.
The flier stated: “What this means is that if your parents still claim you on their income tax returns, and they file that return in a state other than Colorado, you are not eligible to register to vote or vote in Colorado.”
Voter residency requirements vary from state to state, but must meet the guarantees of the U.S. Constitution, said Jon Greenbaum, a voting rights expert with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. Greenbaum said that what states and counties can’t do is adopt rules that treat one group of voters differently than others.
Greenbaum noted that Virginia’s elections board recently revised language on its Internet site that discouraged students from registering after reports of a similar episode at Virginia Tech, in Blacksburg, Va. The New York Times reported Sept. 8 that a local registrar had issued two releases that incorrectly suggested dire consequences for the university’s students who registered to vote there, including the possibility they no longer could be claimed as dependents on their parents’ tax returns.
Sujatha Jahagirdar, program director of the Student Public Interest Research Group’s New Voters Project in Washington, said she encountered similar problems when she posed as a college freshman last week and called registrar’s offices in Greenville County, S.C., home to Furman University, and York County, S.C., where Winthrop University is located.
Jahagirdar said a Greenville official asked if her parents listed her as a dependent, and when she replied in the affirmative, told her: “You should vote where your parents live.” She said a York County representative asked if she was in town for school, and when she said yes, stated flatly: “You can’t vote here.”
A caller on Wednesday got similar responses.
Told of the information imparted by his staff, Conway Belangia, Greenville County’s director of registration and elections, said that “if a staff person made a statement like that, it was an error.”
A York County official didn’t respond to calls for comment.”
Rage
It happens quite a bit, with the liberal “snow birds” from New York and the North East, traveling to Florida, yet voting in BOTH places.
Proof? And, conceivably, that would include conservative snowbirds who travel from, say, Colorado to Arizona.
And how would the obstacles to voting put forward in Virginia and Colorado in any way impede that, other than in a random fashion that hurts all student voters?
Contrary to your dumb implications, there is no reason to believe that double voting helps Democrats more than Republicans. There is however, good reason for Republicans to be paranoid about the student vote this year.
If you’re actually interested in stopping voter fraud, you do that by actually stopping voter fraud, not by presuming its existence to suppress the student vote.
“liberal “snow birds” from New York and the North East, traveling to Florida, yet voting in BOTH places”
Earth to Paul – these are usually conservatives and obviously are not college kids.
I wonder if McCain is going to ride Gov. Palin’s moose up to the Capitol Building when he come to town to save civilization as we know it?
What an image!
Earth to Paul – these are usually conservatives and obviously are not college kids.
In fact, they’re usually retired. But I tried to envision a situation where they were taking classes, too. :)
bth, only been to Atlant once at night,years ago while in the military, went to underground Atlanta, have you been there?
How about Sarah riding in to Washington like Lady Godiva, but on a moose! That would draw the crowds, and give his campaign a much needed shot it the arm!
What’s Roberts and Brownback saying about the bailout deal, or are they waiting for mccain to tell them what to say?
oksobserver, there is a difference between changing one’s legal residence (domicile) and one’s voting residence. A college student (or a member of the military, to use another example) may register to vote within the state of college attendance or being stationed under orders without changing legal residence, which does require obtaining a driver’s license from the new state, among other things.
“Phantom
Posted September 25, 2008 at 12:23 pm”
EWWWWWWWW!
vt – thank you counselor.
Phantom – been to Underground many times. Been a number of years though. There is also a bar in Buckhead ‘Down the Hatch’ that can be wild.
I actually continued to pay nonresident tuition and use my Oklahoma driver’s license for another year.
I was, however, no one’s dependent but my own.
“these are usually conservatives ”
I’ll agree they aren’t students, but I totally disagree with saying they are conservatives.
Having been there, done that, I know for certain; to include other family members, that there ARE liberal snowbirds. Having sat with them at the morning brunches in the retirment community, golfed a few rounds (at cheapest courses), and gone on bus trips to the casino’s with them: they are a reflection of all of America. Maybe more white than any other, but certainly just as many if not more liberals amongst them.
I also happen to know two of them who are too dumb to do their taxes or balance a checkbook – but were real happy to get two checks from the Economic Stimulus Act (unmarried widow and widower). They hate Bush and love democrats, and felt it was only FAIR they got their Stimulus checks (even though the both are retired and have no income from jobs). And yes, I’m related to one of them…..
I didn’t feel terribly safe at the bars there, maybe just paranoia. Pretty rowdy.
oksobserver, there is a difference between changing one’s legal residence (domicile) and one’s voting residence. A college student (or a member of the military, to use another example) may register to vote within the state of college attendance or being stationed under orders without changing legal residence, which does require obtaining a driver’s license from the new state, among other things.
When I was in the military (admitedly a long time ago) You were required to either vote by absentee ballot, return to your home state to vote, or change legal residence to vote in the area you were stationed. I didn;t know that had changed.
In my opinion, you should still have to do one of the above. If you are not a “resident” of that state, you should not be able to vote on matters affecting that state.
No one that has studied the writings of George Washington would ever question his devote Christianity. He like others of the statesmen of the day were proponents of teaching the Christian religion in schools and universities.
“may register to vote within the state of college attendance or being stationed under orders without changing legal residence”
And having been there and done that: The above is NOT TRUE. Any military person who tries it will be in for a rude surprise come tax time.
Military personnel stationed in Leavenworth Kansan – who are residents of OTHER states may NOT vote in Kansas elections.
THEY FILL OUT ABSENTEE BALLOTS FOR THEIR HOME STATE.
“If” they do vote in Kansas, they are subject to Kansas taxes because they BECOME a resident if they vote (to vote you must BE).
Painful lesson for someone from say Florida or Texas where there is NO state tax. They vote in their HOME STATE OF RESIDENCE.
Look it up.
“I didn’t feel terribly safe at the bars there”
Hee. That’s why they also call it HOT ‘Lanta!
And, there we have it the sage mccain pronounce ‘time is short’ gotta have a deal by monday, or it’s all over.
And, can’t enrich wall street execs., for this he had to cancel campaigning?
It looks like the deal has been reached. Probably will be on the President’s desk very soon.
A lot of the residency issue will also be effected by where you live – on campus or in a private-sector apartment. As an apartment dweller one pays taxes via ones rent. That person is more a ‘resident’ than the dorm dweller.
With the military I would expect the same – on-base or off-base. Again; if a person is living in the community why should he not be a aprt of that community.
My bad, AmericanWay; you are most correct when dealing with the member of any uniformed military service, as there is a specific federal law concerning them. However, the dependents of the member may have a separate “voting residence” from that of the member, as I understand the law.
Again, my error. When the laws began changing allowing otherwise nonresident college students to vote in the state(s) where college is attended, I thought the federal law covering members of the uniformed services had changed as well. It hadn’t.
18 age of majority was also a factor. When I first went to college I could vote (18 in Georgia) but was legally still a child (under 21)
Littlejohn I share your opinion on this. There is so little control over absentee ballots now that allowing someone to vote because they are students in one state but a resident in another state encourages fraud.
“The proposal will help homeowners, curb executive pay packages at participating firms and provide oversight of Treasury’s actions, said Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., a key architect of the congressional effort. He did not provide details but said lawmakers will sit down with Treasury officials to discuss it.”
ALL of which had been opposed by Bush and Paulson in their first push.
okobserver
Voter fraud is a concern, but that is not my main reason. My reason is that if you don;t wish to declare residency in that state, then you don’t get to vote on that state’s issues. If you have an interest in that state’s official business, and wish to have a say, declare residency. Period.
Well, okobserver, any proof of the abuses of which you worry?
The younger was quite involved in voter registration efforts while in college in Maine. As a part of the information provided the students (which I saw) was the admonition that if registered in Maine, the student may only vote in Maine; if registered in the home state, the student may only vote (absentee or in person) in the home state. The students were provided the correct legal information, and an attempt was made to educate.
During her four years, there were no reports or allegations of fraudulent voting by the otherwise nonresident students at the college she attended or at the other colleges within said state. Now, I’m not going to claim that it never happened; I suspect it didn’t, but have no proof to back it up.
littlejohn,
I’ve considered those arguments before. Given the fact that the students are “at school” at least four years, and they are affected by local policies during that time, and in many cases represent a substantial portion of the economic activity of the locale, why should they not be able to vote on “local issues”?
What differentiates a student, e.g. from others in our modern, more mobile society, who may reside in several places over a working life? These people may not be in any one place any longer than a student, but somehow they are affected more and thus should be entitled to vote on local issues, but students should not be so entitled?
avtolle,
Thank-you. It’s important that military people not be given bad information.
You are correct on the dependents. But they too, many times have priviledges in their HOME state they will permanently give up – if they decide to become a resident of Kansas. Many of the federal programs also protect spouse/children of military.
Those protections include maintaining the rights of their home state sometimes.
To be clear: You must be a resident of Kansas to vote in Kansas (state law).
If the children or spouse give up that right – they are then citizens of Kansas. So you have a dad who is still a citizen in say Illinois, which doesn’t tax the income of military personnel serving outside the state, but the wife gives UP her residency in the home of record state, then you have a couple with different state of legal residency which makes life very complicated (also done that). And my wife lost her residency and had to start getting a Kansas drivers license, when her old one never expired like mine – until we got out of the service. Plus, Illinois used to allow military vets to attend state college with honorable discharge free. HATE TO LOOSE THOSE STATE BENEFITS! Wife lost hers.
Many times, it is advantageous to keep your original HOME OF RECORD and STATE OF LEGAL RESIDENCY back in the home state – for both spouses. Kids grow up and move on. Different story there.
I do know this for certain: All my kids went to KU. One of the FIRST things the college did was register them to vote in Douglas County. Even though only one of my children LIVED on campus (the others at their time commuted home to our county), the college had them ALL register to vote in Lawrence. Why? (I can only guess)
Is that recent, American_Way? Two of mine attended KU and maintained voter registration in Sedgwick County (awhile back, not recent). Perhaps it was an option yours took? I don’t think a college can accomplish registering someone, but can see how they would offer the choice for the student to make.
AmericanWay, the University surely encouraged your children to register in Douglas County, but I doubt it registered them. BTW, as a KU alum myself, I’m aware of the friction that student registration to vote in Douglas County created (and likely still creates) with the “permanent population”. However, it seems to me that Lawrence has become more of a “bedroom” community, with many of the newer residents there working in the Kansas City area or in Topeka, for example, so I suspect (again, no proof) that there is less of this friction than back in 1968-1973 and 1977-1979.
It is, of course, in the best interests of KU to have its students voting in Douglas County and City of Lawrence elections. No doubt about that. Give a little political power to accompany the economic benefits associated with KU in the area.
“Again; if a person is living in the community why should he not be a aprt of that community.”
bth, the can be! But there are responsibilities which come with it. If they want to vote, and take part in our local politics (which affect life time residents for ever), then they have to be a resident like the rest of us.
Try to think of military non-residents as regular workers for a minute. There are Nebraska, Oklahoma, and for sure Missouri residents who work in Kansas but live in their HOME state. They vote in their HOME state. Military personnel are protected by federal law that they can keep voting in their HOME state, and other states can’t grab them for taxes.
They are guests of Kansas. Staying two,four, or maybe six years here.
While here, they STILL get to vote on their old home town elections and state elections. They do an absentee ballot very easily now to maintain their RIGHT to that.
They are hero’s in my book and make great neighbors and contribute to our communities. But they don’t get the priviledge to vote here – unless they become a resident of Kansas. They are special guests of Kansas, until THEY themselves decide otherwise. They pay state taxes in their home states (which not all exempt military).
PS: It works both ways. Kansas kids are protected to vote in their RED state. But they can give that up if they get stationed in a NO STATE TAX paying state, or a state which provides FREE VET BENEFITS (like college). They may never come back to Kansas and have no intention to come back. But they have to make a decision.
One of the confusing things the military must endure along with many more serious problems.
W”hat differentiates a student, e.g. from others in our modern, more mobile society, who may reside in several places over a working life? These people may not be in any one place any longer than a student, but somehow they are affected more and thus should be entitled to vote on local issues, but students should not be so entitled?”
No. If they want a say in local politics, then they should declare residency. That includes paying any state or city income taxes, real estate taxes, licensing taxes, etc. I have no problem that they are mobile. I have a problem with people who don;t want to be part of the system, yet have a say in the system. I have no problem with liberal students voting their conscience, or conservative, or wacked out students voting their conscience. Just step up to the plate and say “I am a resident” Matter of principle to me. Others see it differently, Their right. I just don;t agree. But, that’s why we have elections and representative government.
Just heard a 5 year old tape of Democrat Barney Frank, claiming that Fannie Mae was in great shape and that efforts to reform Fannie Mae were partisan.
I remember the smoking ban vote in Lawrence, which students voted on. That got locals stirred up.
But of course, KU can say it made Douglas County BLUE, in a land of RED. There is no other logical reason Douglas is one of only a couple blue counties in Kansas.
For me, it is not a red/blue or partisan issue. It is an issue of integrity. If I want to have a say in the community politics, I should be willing to define myself as part of that communty. I do so by declaring my residency.
vt – I, too, was involved in college voter registration in both MA and later in CA. We also admonished people to choose ONE – here or back with mom and dad.
And, I agree that there might be cases where keeping everything ‘back home.’ I would say it is case-by-case. For example; although I was born and raised in Georgia I don’t live there now. Nor did I return there after college. Others DO return ‘home’ and might therefore want to keep their registration there.
I think what the Republics fear is that students might chose to vote in CO, for example, rather than KS where it would be pointless. Note that I am not talking about voting twice – simply where a person’s one vote goes. I wish I could vote in one of my former states – perhaps PA. Then my vote might count.
Eliminating the electoral college and going with direct popular vote would make this a moot point.
“5 year old tape”
Well, maybe 5 years ago it was in great shape.
littlejohn, I understand your position. We just don’t agree on this insofar as the students are concerned.
American_Way, the smoking ban is just the latest in a continuing series of issues where the student vote got the locals riled. I recall a City Council election “back in the day” where the student vote caused a result that many locals didn’t like; not that the professor wasn’t qualified, he was in several ways; not that the professor didn’t live there (he still does); but that the professor won over a long-time councilman, who was a part of the Lawrence GOBN, and most definitely didn’t like the fact (at the time) that without the University, the City of Lawrence would have been essentially an economic ghost town, and often voted against the interests of the city in matters concerning the University and its students as a matter of principle (some might call it spite).
“For me, it is not a red/blue or partisan issue. It is an issue of integrity. If I want to have a say in the community politics, I should be willing to define myself as part of that communty.”
LJ I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I was surprised that my daughters living at home, didn’t want to go vote with me. First time I was shocked when she told me she was registered in Lawrence. (she was clueless on the issues but voted straight blue. her right.)
But none of my kids STAYED in Lawrence long term, and only one actually lived on campus. (others commuted due to funds from our county)
I did find it interesting that later, I still saw their names on the sign in sheet right next to my wife and mine – in OUR county. They have long grown up and gone – to other states!
I don’t think anything would have prevented them from voting at our home polling place AND Lawrence. (I did have them removed from the register)
So within our OWN state – please check me out if you have college kids. Are they still on your local register?
Absentee ballot voting is not hard to do. I’ve done it a couple of times. It is not a burden.
And again, at least for me, it is not a partisan issue.
One other thought and I’ll make way for others.
Kansas Law: “Kansas residents stationed WITHIN Kansas are not exempt from paying state income taxes”
So why on earth would you give nonresidents priviledges we don’t allow our own? (regardless, only Kansas residents can vote in Kansas)
” did find it interesting that later, I still saw their names on the sign in sheet right next to my wife and mine – in OUR county. They have long grown up and gone – to other states!”
Happens all the time. There is no coordination among voting districts. You are not removed until you ask to to removed in many areas. While it does give room for voter fraud, most of the time, it’s just a matter of not really knowing you have to remove your name from your revious area, or not caring. Most (although there are probably some that do–In fact, I guess I do know one), don;t bother. Too much work in a microwave society.
“avtolle
Posted September 25, 2008 at 1:31 pm | Permalink
littlejohn, I understand your position. We just don’t agree on this insofar as the students are concerned.”
That’s okay. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
American_Way, I’ll get out of the way on this one too, after the following observation on the provision of the Kansas Income Tax law you posted (regarding the taxation of military pay of Kansas residents within Kansas).
That’s a general rule of income taxation if one is in the military; the military pay is subject to income taxation in the state of legal residence (if said state has a personal income tax) regardless of where the individual member is stationed. The admonition is provided, I’m sure, to warn a Kansas resident that regardless of how their non-resident buddies’ military pay is treated for Kansas purposes, theirs is not exempt.
A big surprise sometimes is the fact that a military member who has an “off duty” job must file a non-resident return in the state where stationed, even though his or her state of residence doesn’t have state income taxes. Dealt with this many times during my four years in the USAF.
In our case, my wife and I had to file non-resident Indiana returns on our Indiana incomes, and report the same (of course) on the resident Kansas return we filed. Of course, there was the credit computation involved, etc., but that’s how it works.
“please check me out if you have college kids. Are they still on your local register?”
Unfortunately that is true with ANYONE who moves. They did not remove me from Kane County IL the day I registered here. However it did lapse after a while I am sure.
I would add that if a student works – either on campus or in a local bar – he is required to pay taxes in the state where the college is.
Exactly, Ben; thus the situation involving both our daughters and the filing of nonresident returns while in college in the states where their colleges were located; and, on one memorable occasion, filing a total of four state income tax returns for the elder (three nonresident, one as a Kansas resident) due to a summer internship, and other factors.
#
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:40 am | Permalink
Lets be clear:
Alcee Hastings, as a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, was part of the “conscience of Fannie Mae”.
#
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 12:09 pm | Permalink
Rage
It happens quite a bit, with the liberal “snow birds” from New York and the North East, traveling to Florida, yet voting in BOTH places.
#
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 10:26 am | Permalink
low handed game?
Obama is using the old “plausable deniability” ruse.
Obama uses scum like “Winner” (who is friends with Axelrod) to do FAKE “astroturff” internet advertising, using false personal attacks against Palin:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194180.php
After Jawa detected that the voice, on the fake, “astroturff” advertising sounded like the same voice that Axelrod uses, in Obama advertising, lots of funny things happened.
Wiki had several deletions, in the sections covering Axelrod and “Astroturff” advertising.
Many YouTube posts were quickly deleted, especially anything showing a connection between Winner and Axelrod and Obama!
#
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:46 am | Permalink
Democrats like voter fraud.
Voter fraud usually helps Democrats.
#
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:55 am | Permalink
Obama took his teleprompter to the rodeo.
“speaking bull to bulls”
#
Franklin
Posted September 25, 2008 at 11:48 am | Permalink
Will Obama take his teleprompter with him, to the White House meeting with Bush?
========================================================
Franklin makes one half way intelligent post, then drops back into la-la land with the above bs.
Gee, ya think many of those “posts” on youtube and others were pulled because they were b**l s**t? Or do you believe everything you pull out of your a**?
Ya, I know: I’m an idiot, but being called that by you is something I consider a compliment:-)
This is funny. Although, I must admit his Hail Mary stunts to this point have struck me as being more head-scratching kind of astonishing than funny. I will try not to be shocked if he uses this list as his blueprint for the future of his campaign.
———–
First Palin, Then Campaign Suspension. What Now?Slate predicts McCain’s next 10 Hail Mary stunts.
1. Returns to Vietnam and jails himself.
2. Offers the post of “vice vice president” to Warren Buffett.
3. Challenges Obama to suspend campaign so they both can go and personally drill for oil offshore.
4. Learns to use computer.
5. Does bombing run over Taliban-controlled tribal areas of Pakistan.
6. Offers to forgo salary, sell one house.
7. Sex-change operation.
8. Suspends campaign until Nov. 4, offers to start being president right now.
9. Sells Alaska to Russia for $700 billion.
10. Pledges to serve only one term. OK, half a term.
http://www.slate.com/id/2200927/
Linda I failed to see any humor here. Some of them were ridiculous in fact. But in truth Slate has always been intellectually challenged in my view.
Thanks for sharing though.
I have never seen any humor in POWs.
Is it just me, or does that look like a picture of Steve Martin up above?
avtolle
Posted September 25, 2008 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
American_Way, I’ll get out of the way on this one too, after the following observation on the provision of the Kansas Income Tax law you posted (regarding the taxation of military pay of Kansas residents within Kansas).
That’s a general rule of income taxation if one is in the military; the military pay is subject to income taxation in the state of legal residence (if said state has a personal income tax) regardless of where the individual member is stationed. The admonition is provided, I’m sure, to warn a Kansas resident that regardless of how their non-resident buddies’ military pay is treated for Kansas purposes, theirs is not exempt.
——————
Kansas used to give me a ‘case of the behind’ when filing taxes. Especially when it came to paying property taxes like license tag and property tax fees for a car. I remember I had just purchased a brand new sports car and when I came back to the States, I was presented with a bill for about two hundred dollars, even though I wasn’t living in Kansas, but wanted to keep a Kansas license tag.
I think they changed that rule now where military are exempt from automobile property taxes if they are stationed somewhere else.
I got stationed in Texas and promptly changed my legal residence to Texas as they had no state income tax, no property taxes on an automobile and much lower license plate fees.
Eventually though, as I returned to Kansas, my residence was changed back. Never made any sense to me to get a bill from the state of Kansas while living somewhere else.
American_Way, when stationed in Indiana, I took advantage of the non-resident license plate deal that state had. Thought I was getting a good deal fiscally until I came back to Kansas, and found out that the Indiana excise tax on vehicles (it isn’t called that, but in reality that’s what it is) I had been paying was higher than what the (at the time) Douglas County property taxes would have been. Sigh.
Could it be that the reason Douglas county votes “blue” is that the population has a higher number of college graduates than the average Kansas county. Are college grads more “blue” than non-graduates? I’ve heard this stat, can’t find documentation at present, it could be an urban legend.
Of course I’m refering to a statistical trend, not a prediction of who will be “red” or “blue” based on education level.
Uh Georgie,
“Typical lib comments about McCain who has so much more experience than Muslim Obama. We are all different and in no way does McCain fit the lib news view, nor myself.”
As far as I know, Obama isn’t Muslim. Not that it matters; this is America, where we have freedom of religion (yes, I know that hurts) and Islam is politically no better or worse here than Christianity.
We select our president to represent the people- all of them, not the various church members. They seem to support their religions quite satisfacorily, thank you.
Now do you see why mccain had to put everything on hold?
“All of us around the table … know we’ve got to get something done as quickly as possible,” Bush told reporters, brought in for only the start of the meeting. Obama and McCain were at distant ends of the oval table, not even in each other’s sight lines. Bush, playing host in the middle, was flanked by Congress’ two Democratic leaders, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
No one else spoke, and all the visitors left the White House without talking to a huge media group gathered outside.
Phantom,
But it was a great photo-op — photos here.
‘Tentative meltdown deal: Bush, McCain, Obama meet’
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioHc80xKMiATnqCpK0cDKJzk_nPQD93E0CU80
“Obama and McCain were at distant ends of the oval table, not even in each other’s sight lines.”
I would love to see 500 people fired for this mess. Demon crats don’t want anybody feelings hurt no matter how guilty they are.
Course if they would have not caved in to the demon crats pressure to loan to people who had no ability to pay back this whole mess would never have happened.
So vote Palin for President.
She is vastly superior to obama the baby killing muslim.
Sorry Kandi, but it was YOUR guy who voted against government regulation at every opportunity…one of the big reasons why the whole country is in this mess. Watch him do the “flip flop” now that every taxpaying American is getting the royal screw job because of the actions of all the greedy CEOs.
Just keep drinking the koolade sweetie.
Wow.. some people really do live in alternative realities.
Yes, President Soccer Mom! Sounds like a Disney movie!
DemonCats… Boooga Booogga
So … someone believes that liberals went to bankers and somehow forced them to make bad loans and um… forced the Bush appointees in HUD to not notice that a lot of forms were being falsely filed… and then… oh gawd! this line of thought hurts to even try in jest. Imagine if you really had beliefs like this in your head… Oh SHe is joking! of course. Heehee.
Well, I think some people are going to get fired for this.. and I think a lot of them are Republicans who have offices in Washington, D.C.
I wonder who “Kandi Sue” really is? She has to be a bad joke by one of the regulars. How funny!
And don’t forget how Palin thinks abortions are wrong even if continuing the pregnancy will kill the mother…
Yeah, Kandi Sue is my stripper name!
No, she believes in abortion to save the life of the mother. She doesn’t believe in abortion in cases of rape or incest…but only for herself. She said that would be HER choice..but she respects the choice other women might make in that situation. Her stand on the abortion issue has been distorted and exaggerated by the opposition.
I still think she is totally unqualified to be a “heartbeat away”, especially after the way she lied about refusing earmark money for “the bridge to nowhere” and her statement to Couric last night that McCain has favored government regulaton and then couldn’t come up with one example.
I really don’t think she’s very smart, she’s just good with words..and there is a big difference between the two.
DavidB
And don’t forget how Palin thinks abortions are wrong even if continuing the pregnancy will kill the mother…
A pregnancy will kill the mother?
I’ve never heard of such a condition. I know that liberal demon crats say it is so but doctors say otherwise.
McCain’s impulsiveness may be related to the level of cynicism this guy displays.
The guy is so desperate for the right’s lunatic fringe that he’ll apparently do almost anything to get their votes. Sad thing is they’ve been so worked up by the usual suspects that they may not be capable of seeing what’s coming IF he gets elected. It won’t be whatever they think they voted for, that’s a given.
Examples: he thought he needed evangelicals. Did he get Rick Warren or James Dobson or Pat Robertson? Nope. He just found the wackiest pair he could in Hagee and the other nut, and tried to make it work. Still working to earn the evangelical vote, he picks Sarah Palin. She’s about as ready for national office as Barney Fife. Anybody seen the video of her interview with Couric? If so, can you tell me, was that English Palin spoke? Hell, nobody has a clue what she was trying to say, least of all Palin. Where in the eightch eee double hockey sticks did he find this person?!?
McCain’s impulsive, and it backfires on him about as often as it fools the casual observer into mistaking it for independent thinking. But truly, his level of cynicism is pretty sad. It’s sickening to see in a candidate for POTUS.
“She is vastly superior to obama the baby killing muslim.”
KandiSue the McLame lunatic – it was your Repuke Cons who were in charge – not the Democrats.
And now RepukeCon McSame wants to derail the compromise on behalf of those like you who are ven more fringe than Bush!
Why is there not a thread “Obama’s muslim side showing through”?
Just how many anti conservative threads can this site run in a row?
I wonder if this constant anti conservative agenda is why the paper is laying off workers?
Speaking of McCain’s “impulsiveness,” if you haven’t heard Palin on foreign policy, you should. It will be difficult to believe unless you actually hear it with your own ears.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4478156n
Why is there not a thread “BoyNamedSue’s insanely delusional side showing through”?
Kandisue
Posted September 25, 2008 at 9:34 pm | Permalink
Why is there not a thread “Obama’s muslim side showing through”?
=====================================================
Well, that would be because Obama is not a Muslim, except in the a few individuals who’s minds have a limited ability to actually think, such as, well, yourself.
“This crisis was caused by political correctness being forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.
Before the Democrats’ affirmative-action lending policies became an embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992, a majority-Democratic Congress “mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains.”
Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton’s secretary of housing and urban development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie Mae’s and Freddie Mac’s portfolio be made up of loans to low- to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.
Instead of looking at “outdated criteria,” such as the mortgage applicant’s credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named “Caylee.”
Threatening lawsuits, Clinton’s Federal Reserve demanded that banks treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn’t a joke – it’s a fact.
When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches, political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.
In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed the Clinton administration’s affirmative-action lending policies as one of the “hidden success stories” of the Clinton administration, saying that “black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded.”
Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn’t get out of their loans by selling their houses.
A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative-action time bomb, and now it’s gone off.
In Bush’s first year in office, the White House chief economist, N. Gregory Mankiw, warned that the government’s “implicit subsidy” of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, combined with loans to unqualified borrowers, was creating a huge risk for the entire financial system.
Rep. Barney Frank denounced Mankiw, saying he had no “concern about housing.” How dare you oppose suicidal loans to people who can’t repay them! The New York Times reported that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were “under heavy assault by the Republicans,” but these entities still had “important political allies” in the Democrats.
Now, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, middle-class taxpayers are going to be forced to bail out the Democrats’ two most important constituent groups: rich Wall Street bankers and welfare recipients.
Political correctness had already ruined education, sports, science and entertainment. But it took a Democratic president with a Democratic Congress for political correctness to wreck the financial industry.”
“So vote Palin for President.”
Well, the only way you can DO that is to write her name in.
Make sure you ask at the polling place how to do that. You want to make sure your vote is counted.
How about good ole Sarah. Her latest interview shows the real reason McCain wants to postpone the debate: she’s dumber than a box of rocks. She has been tagged teamed by McCain’s handlers for weeks, and she still can’t remember what it is she was supposed to say.
“Yep, Alaska is right between Russia and Canada, so I know foreign relations.”
Or is the “foreign” relations, the guest religious nut from Canada, who performed some weird ritual on Sarah to cast out “witches”, what she’s talking about?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/the-witch-hunter-anoints_b_128805.html
This woman is way too far out there to be a heartbeat away from the White House. Maybe Kandisue, Franklin and a few others here can join up with her and start a new wing-nut religion. You know; they can discover God’s plan for Iraq; His plan for an Alaskan pipeline; and formulate a plan to expel all witches from the Alaskan Tundra. Ya gotta supply your own snakes, though.
Don’t forget the air space… When Putin rears his ugly head he is right there, right over Alaska…
Or something like that. I’ll need to listen several times or read the full transcript more than once to get any idea of what she was saying.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted September 25, 2008 at 8:01 pm | Permalink
I wonder who “Kandi Sue” really is? She has to be a bad joke by one of the regulars. How funny!
=======================================================
Mary, it’s definitely a guy. There was a thread where he answered a question as only a guy would. A woman would never have answered it the way he did. Unless, of course, he’s had a sex change. And hey, in this day and age . . .
I think she’s paulie.
“Oh, and I can shoot a moose! Would you like some nice moose pie?”
Paul would be a good guess. He is definitely someone who knows nothing about females.
Watched the clip, palin’s a real goober.
“But it took a Democratic president with a Democratic Congress for political correctness to wreck the financial industry”
Earth to BoyNamedSue: The RepukeCons have been in charge.
Bush saying he ‘prefers’ Paulson’s plan, is he quavering?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080926/pl_nm/us_financial_bailout_preference_1
McCain has a strong motive for his “PUTTING SELF FIRST” derailment of the Paulson (bipartisan as comprimised) plan. HE IS TERRIFIED OF THE DEBATE! That is why he is working so hard to destroy the plan. He doesn’t give a damn about America – he only cares about his campaign.
Bush saying he ‘prefers’ Paulson’s plan, is he quavering?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080926/pl_nm/us_financial_bailout_preference_1
In other news, WaMu lagest bank seized and sold!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080926/bs_nm/us_washingtonmutual_jpmorganbiz_4
We’re going to end up with BoA, and JPmorgan, as the sole survivors.
On the “CBS Evening News” on Thursday, Katie Couric asked Ms. Palin, Senator John McCain’s running mate, what she meant when she cited Alaska’s proximity to Russia as foreign affairs experience. Ms. Palin could have anticipated the question — the topic of their interview, pegged to her visit to the United Nations, was foreign affairs. Yet Ms. Palin’s answer was surprisingly wobbly: her words tumbled out fast and choppily, like an outboard motor loosened from the stern.
“That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side, the land — boundary that we have with — Canada,” she replied. She mentioned the jokes made at her expense and seemed for a moment at a loss for the word “caricature.” “It — it’s funny that a comment like that was — kind of made to — cari — I don’t know, you know? Reporters —”
Ms. Couric stepped in. “Mocked?” Ms. Palin looked relieved and even grateful for the help. “Yeah, mocked, I guess that’s the word, yeah.”
Ms. Couric pressed her again to explain the geographic point. “Well, it certainly does,” Ms. Palin said, “because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of.”
Ms. Couric asked the governor if she had ever been involved in negotiations, for example, with her Russian neighbors.
“We have trade missions back and forth,” Ms. Palin said. “We — we do — it’s very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the airspace of the United States of America, where — where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border.”
Ms. Palin, looking at Ms. Couric intently, kept on going. “It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to — to our state.”
That exchange was so startling it ricocheted across the Internet several hours before it appeared on CBS and was picked up by rival networks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26watch.html?em
Old Media Pushes False ‘Rape Kit’ Charge Against Gov. Palin
By Warner Todd Huston (Bio | Archive)
September 24, 2008 – 06:20 ET
At least since September 8 the extreme left has been pushing a lie that Governor, then Mayor, Sarah Palin “charged rape victims for rape kits” performed upon them in the Alaskan town of Wasilla. The charge stems from a May 22, 2000 article in the local Wasilla paper The Frontiersman and has been spun from a comment made by the Wasilla Police Chief. This comment was somehow made into a Sarah Palin policy. Evidence of the incident, though, shows no involvement by Palin at all. Still, many Old Media outlets continue to keep illegitimately linking this rape kit billing claim to Sarah Palin, even though the truth is easily discovered.
As mentioned first up was The Frontiersman story from 2000. In that story Police Chief Fannon was quoted as standing against legislation that would force local municipalities to pick up the costs of rape kits being performed. In the interview Fannon said that, upon conviction, he favored the criminals being charged for the costs.
Story Continues Below Ad ?
The story mentions that Fannon claimed that at the time Wasilla did have a policy that rape victims’ insurance would be charged for the kits being performed but there was no mention that victims themselves were charged and no claim that any ever were. It should be pointed out that The Frontiersman is the local Wasilla paper, so, consequently, the story did not mention what the policy was in any other Alaskan city outside the area the paper covers other than to say that “most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams.” This last phrase has been focused on by Palin’s detractors and spun from “some municipalities” into “all” (except Wasilla) and presented as some sort of proof that she hates rape victims.
After Palin was picked to be VP, on September 8, a blog called Americablog found the old story and brought it up as evidence of “a rather nasty window into Sarah Palin.” Americablog is run by a man named John Aravosis, a Democratic strategist, sometimes gay activist, and Washington D.C. lawyer who once worked for Alaska Senator Ted Steven before he, Aravosis, formally switching to the Democratic Party.
Later that day The Daily Kos also picked it up and from here it began to morph even further adding false claims to the story. In one of those additions to the story, Kos blogger Steven R claimed that Palin hired Police Chief Fannon because he was in favor of charging rape victims for rape kits. Steven R said he was “Pro-Charging Rape Victims for their OWN TESTS!!!” (bold in original). I cannot find this claim anywhere prior to the meme being picked up by the Old Media echoing this Kos diarist.
According to the Uniform Crime Reports for Wasilla, up until 2000 only one rape had been reported to police in Wasilla. The Kos diarist tried to claim that one rape reported equalled one rape conviction alleging that all the “other” rapes were not convicted. But the report clearly says that it was one rape reported not one rape convicted. The Daily Kos Diarist was trying to make it seem as if there were all sorts of rapes going on that weren’t being reported and, presumably, all sorts of victims being charged for rape kits.
In any case, from here the Old Media began to pick up the charge that Palin had put in place or at least agreed with this charging of victims policy. On September 12, for instance, The L.A. Times repeated the charge.
When Sarah Palin was mayor of Wasilla, the city billed sexual assault victims and their insurance companies for the cost of rape kits and forensic examinations.
The L.A. Times also helped further the warped claim that made it seem that the only Alaskan town that charged victims for rape kits was Palin’s Wasilla.
Then-Gov. Tony Knowles said Thursday that Wasilla was unique in the state in charging rape victims for costs incurred by law enforcement in trying to solve the crime.
This charge then began to appear in all sorts of opinion columns, blogs and in the comments sections of many of the Palin stories in papers all across the country.
On September 21, the Chicago Tribune repeated the tale, as well. The Chi Trib tried to spin this tale into one that made Palin notorious in the Alaska State Legislature over the practice.
While she was mayor of Wasilla, her town was the only one in Alaska that required rape victims to pay for their own forensic tests. Charging victims for the “rape kits” necessary to collect evidence and convict sexual predators was a “cost-cutting” measure that continued until complaints about her administration’s policy prompted the Alaska State Legislature to pass a bill that banned this anti-victim practice statewide.
On September 22, it was CNN’s turn to highlight the charge. CNN also pushed the false idea that out of all of Alaska’s towns only Wasilla insisted on perpetrating this policy quoting former Democratic State Rep. Eric Croft to that effect.
Former state Rep. Eric Croft, a Democrat, sponsored a state law requiring cities to provide the examinations free of charge to victims. He said the only ongoing resistance he met was from Wasilla, where Palin was mayor from 1996 to 2002.
Farther down in the story, CNN does reveal that there are no records and no proof that Palin ever even knew about this charging the victim policy. CNN also finally mentions that Wasilla wasn’t the only town in Alaska that had this policy.
Many other papers also mention that Palin charged victims for their own rape kits. Papers such as Denver Daily and Philadelphia Weekly, for instance. There are far more than the few I mention here.
So, the impression all these stories leave us with is that the town of Wasilla was a major impediment to passage of a bill in the state legislature that would end the policy of charging rape victims for their own rape kits being administered. We are told that “Palin charged rape victims” and we are told that she hired a new police chief because he also wanted to charge victims. One would think that if all this were true, Palin would have been all over Alaska’s news in the year 2000 because of it. But, in reality, none of these charges can be found and Jim Geraghty of NRO has done a little investigative work to prove it.
Geraghty looked to see how often Wasilla and Palin were mentioned in the debates about the rape kit bill. But he finds that there is not one mention of the town of Wasilla in the hearings over the bill. Far from being the mayor that had “complaints about her administration’s policy” (as the Chi Trib says) being the one forcing the state legislature to pass the law, Wasilla is not mentioned at all in the debates about the bill.
The Democratic sponsor of the legislation, Eric Croft, told USA Today recently that “the law was aimed in part at Wasilla, where now-Gov. Sarah Palin was mayor.” Yet in six committee meetings, Wasilla was never mentioned, even when the discussion turned to the specific topic of where victims were being charged.
Geraghty also could not find a single instance of a rape victim ever having been charged for her own rape kit.
To clarify: In preparation to attend a hearing and support the bill, one of the state’s top law-enforcement officials found no case of a rape victim ever being charged. And roughly a month after 30 Democratic lawyers, investigators, and opposition researchers, not to mention reporters from every major news agency in the country, landed in Alaska, we still have no instances to consider.
Additionally, Geraghty found that it was the hospitals in Alaska, not the police agencies, that were passing the bills on to the victims’ insurance companies. And the idea that only Wasilla had such a policy is blasted out of the water by Geraghty who notes that Juneau also had the same policy of charging rape victims for their rape kits.
In fact, at a Finance Committee hearing, Representative Gail Phillips (R., Homer) “read for the record, a statement from a woman in Juneau who had experienced the charges as indicated.” Compare Juneau (population 30,711 in 2000) to Wasilla (population 5,469).
On top of all of that, there are no stories prior to Sarah Palin being offered the billet as VP by John McCain that makes the claim that Palin was informed of or involved in this policy of charging rape victims for rape kits. And, since there was only one rape reported in the city between 1996 and 2000 when the story first came to the papers, it’s no wonder she wasn’t aware of the policy. When would it ever have come up? Does anyone think that any given mayor of any American town is fully cognizant of every single policy or law in their city, especially if it is a law not in use because of a lack of situations to bring it to light?
For her part, Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella has said that the governor “does not believe, nor has she ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test.”
In the end, it seems that this story is a wild exaggeration about Palin’s role in this policy. There is no proof that she ever knew about the policy until long after the situation hit the news, it is untrue that her town was “unique” in blocking the measure, no evidence that she, herself, was notorious for the policy, and no proof that any victims were ever charged for rape kits. In fact, according to the Uniform Crime Report there were only 5 rapes reported in the 6 years she was mayor of Wasilla and four of those happened after the state law in question was passed.
In fact, this whole thing looks like another case where the media has been programmed by the nutroots and Democratic operatives.
Yet, the media still repeatedly bring this false charge up at every possible opportunity. Geraghty is right. The Old Media and the Obama campaign owes Palin an apology.
““It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to — to our state.”
Oh no I’m melting MELTING!
Who could have dreamed you could have destroyed my beautiful ugliness! Oh what a world what a world!
Old Media Pushes False ‘Rape Kit’ Charge Against Gov. Palin
By Warner Todd Huston (Bio | Archive)
September 24, 2008 – 06:20 ET
At least since September 8 the extreme left has been pushing a lie that Governor, then Mayor, Sarah Palin “charged rape victims for rape kits” performed upon them in the Alaskan town of Wasilla. The charge stems from a May 22, 2000 article in the local Wasilla paper The Frontiersman and has been spun from a comment made by the Wasilla Police Chief. This comment was somehow made into a Sarah Palin policy. Evidence of the incident, though, shows no involvement by Palin at all. Still, many Old Media outlets continue to keep illegitimately linking this rape kit billing claim to Sarah Palin, even though the truth is easily discovered.
As mentioned first up was The Frontiersman story from 2000. In that story Police Chief Fannon was quoted as standing against legislation that would force local municipalities to pick up the costs of rape kits being performed. In the interview Fannon said that, upon conviction, he favored the criminals being charged for the costs.
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The story mentions that Fannon claimed that at the time Wasilla did have a policy that rape victims’ insurance would be charged for the kits being performed but there was no mention that victims themselves were charged and no claim that any ever were. It should be pointed out that The Frontiersman is the local Wasilla paper, so, consequently, the story did not mention what the policy was in any other Alaskan city outside the area the paper covers other than to say that “most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams.” This last phrase has been focused on by Palin’s detractors and spun from “some municipalities” into “all” (except Wasilla) and presented as some sort of proof that she hates rape victims.
After Palin was picked to be VP, on September 8, a blog called Americablog found the old story and brought it up as evidence of “a rather nasty window into Sarah Palin.” Americablog is run by a man named John Aravosis, a Democratic strategist, sometimes gay activist, and Washington D.C. lawyer who once worked for Alaska Senator Ted Steven before he, Aravosis, formally switching to the Democratic Party.
Later that day The Daily Kos also picked it up and from here it began to morph even further adding false claims to the story. In one of those additions to the story, Kos blogger Steven R claimed that Palin hired Police Chief Fannon because he was in favor of charging rape victims for rape kits. Steven R said he was “Pro-Charging Rape Victims for their OWN TESTS!!!” (bold in original). I cannot find this claim anywhere prior to the meme being picked up by the Old Media echoing this Kos diarist.
According to the Uniform Crime Reports for Wasilla, up until 2000 only one rape had been reported to police in Wasilla. The Kos diarist tried to claim that one rape reported equalled one rape conviction alleging that all the “other” rapes were not convicted. But the report clearly says that it was one rape reported not one rape convicted. The Daily Kos Diarist was trying to make it seem as if there were all sorts of rapes going on that weren’t being reported and, presumably, all sorts of victims being charged for rape kits.
In any case, from here the Old Media began to pick up the charge that Palin had put in place or at least agreed with this charging of victims policy. On September 12, for instance, The L.A. Times repeated the charge.
When Sarah Palin was mayor of Wasilla, the city billed sexual assault victims and their insurance companies for the cost of rape kits and forensic examinations.
The L.A. Times also helped further the warped claim that made it seem that the only Alaskan town that charged victims for rape kits was Palin’s Wasilla.
Then-Gov. Tony Knowles said Thursday that Wasilla was unique in the state in charging rape victims for costs incurred by law enforcement in trying to solve the crime.
This charge then began to appear in all sorts of opinion columns, blogs and in the comments sections of many of the Palin stories in papers all across the country.
On September 21, the Chicago Tribune repeated the tale, as well. The Chi Trib tried to spin this tale into one that made Palin notorious in the Alaska State Legislature over the practice.
While she was mayor of Wasilla, her town was the only one in Alaska that required rape victims to pay for their own forensic tests. Charging victims for the “rape kits” necessary to collect evidence and convict sexual predators was a “cost-cutting” measure that continued until complaints about her administration’s policy prompted the Alaska State Legislature to pass a bill that banned this anti-victim practice statewide.
On September 22, it was CNN’s turn to highlight the charge. CNN also pushed the false idea that out of all of Alaska’s towns only Wasilla insisted on perpetrating this policy quoting former Democratic State Rep. Eric Croft to that effect.
Former state Rep. Eric Croft, a Democrat, sponsored a state law requiring cities to provide the examinations free of charge to victims. He said the only ongoing resistance he met was from Wasilla, where Palin was mayor from 1996 to 2002.
Farther down in the story, CNN does reveal that there are no records and no proof that Palin ever even knew about this charging the victim policy. CNN also finally mentions that Wasilla wasn’t the only town in Alaska that had this policy.
Many other papers also mention that Palin charged victims for their own rape kits. Papers such as Denver Daily and Philadelphia Weekly, for instance. There are far more than the few I mention here.
So, the impression all these stories leave us with is that the town of Wasilla was a major impediment to passage of a bill in the state legislature that would end the policy of charging rape victims for their own rape kits being administered. We are told that “Palin charged rape victims” and we are told that she hired a new police chief because he also wanted to charge victims. One would think that if all this were true, Palin would have been all over Alaska’s news in the year 2000 because of it. But, in reality, none of these charges can be found and Jim Geraghty of NRO has done a little investigative work to prove it.
Geraghty looked to see how often Wasilla and Palin were mentioned in the debates about the rape kit bill. But he finds that there is not one mention of the town of Wasilla in the hearings over the bill. Far from being the mayor that had “complaints about her administration’s policy” (as the Chi Trib says) being the one forcing the state legislature to pass the law, Wasilla is not mentioned at all in the debates about the bill.
The Democratic sponsor of the legislation, Eric Croft, told USA Today recently that “the law was aimed in part at Wasilla, where now-Gov. Sarah Palin was mayor.” Yet in six committee meetings, Wasilla was never mentioned, even when the discussion turned to the specific topic of where victims were being charged.
Geraghty also could not find a single instance of a rape victim ever having been charged for her own rape kit.
To clarify: In preparation to attend a hearing and support the bill, one of the state’s top law-enforcement officials found no case of a rape victim ever being charged. And roughly a month after 30 Democratic lawyers, investigators, and opposition researchers, not to mention reporters from every major news agency in the country, landed in Alaska, we still have no instances to consider.
Additionally, Geraghty found that it was the hospitals in Alaska, not the police agencies, that were passing the bills on to the victims’ insurance companies. And the idea that only Wasilla had such a policy is blasted out of the water by Geraghty who notes that Juneau also had the same policy of charging rape victims for their rape kits.
In fact, at a Finance Committee hearing, Representative Gail Phillips (R., Homer) “read for the record, a statement from a woman in Juneau who had experienced the charges as indicated.” Compare Juneau (population 30,711 in 2000) to Wasilla (population 5,469).
On top of all of that, there are no stories prior to Sarah Palin being offered the billet as VP by John McCain that makes the claim that Palin was informed of or involved in this policy of charging rape victims for rape kits. And, since there was only one rape reported in the city between 1996 and 2000 when the story first came to the papers, it’s no wonder she wasn’t aware of the policy. When would it ever have come up? Does anyone think that any given mayor of any American town is fully cognizant of every single policy or law in their city, especially if it is a law not in use because of a lack of situations to bring it to light?
For her part, Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella has said that the governor “does not believe, nor has she ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test.”
In the end, it seems that this story is a wild exaggeration about Palin’s role in this policy. There is no proof that she ever knew about the policy until long after the situation hit the news, it is untrue that her town was “unique” in blocking the measure, no evidence that she, herself, was notorious for the policy, and no proof that any victims were ever charged for rape kits. In fact, according to the Uniform Crime Report there were only 5 rapes reported in the 6 years she was mayor of Wasilla and four of those happened after the state law in question was passed.
In fact, this whole thing looks like another case where the media has been programmed by the nutroots and Democratic operatives.
Yet, the media still repeatedly bring this false charge up at every possible opportunity. Geraghty is right. The Old Media and the Obama campaign owes Palin an apology.
“Kandisue”=”Franklin”= Paul Rosell
Heh JR. And they are BOTH scroll over territory.
Somebody needs a nap. Or a hug. Or some REALLY good psychotropic drugs…
Would Sarah say that those that live in the U.S. are by virtue of being between Mexico and Canada, experts on the affairs of Mexico and Canada?
I sent my wife a link to your thread and she truly loved it! I’ll totally check back in on your blog post.
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