Once upon a time, John McCain pledged to run an honorable, respectful campaign. This week he launched a new attack ad (no link will be provided) that accuses Barack Obama of wanting to teach kindergartners about sex before they learn to read.
The Illinois bill in question was about “age-appropriate” K-12 sex education that warned kids about inappropriate touching and sex predators.
A McClatchy newspaper fact-check of the McCain ad calls it “out of bounds” and “deliberately misleading.”
Time columnist Joe Klein calls it “one of the sleaziest ads I’ve ever seen in presidential politics.”
Meanwhile, McCain and Sarah Palin continue to claim that Palin said “thanks but no thanks” to the “Bridge to Nowhere,” even after that claim has been thoroughly debunked in the media as a falsehood.
McCain is clearly ready to say anything to win.
340 Comments
If true, and it appears he has the proof, this turns McCain’s whole story on his wife’s addictions upside down. Antone else see a pattern here?
==================================================
Cindy McCain’s addiction to prescription painkillers emerged into public view 14 years ago with a well-orchestrated PR campaign designed to preserve her husband’s political future.
Aside from a lengthy contemporary investigation from Phoenix’s alternative weekly and occasional mentions since then, the addiction back-story — including ample questions about what John McCain knew, when he knew it and questions over whether he was complicit in the cover-up — has gone largely untold. Until now.
Tom Gosinski, a former employee of the medical-aid charity Cindy McCain used as personal supplier of Percocet and Vicodin, is speaking out publicly for the first time.
On Wednesday, Gosinski sat down with RAW STORY and other outlets to tell his story and distribute copies of his personal journal from his time with the American Voluntary Medical Team in the last half of 1992, where he voiced ever more acute concerns and frustrations over McCain’s drug use and its impact on her mood and job performance.
“My journal wasn’t to trash Cindy or anything,” he says. “My journal was kept b/c I came in contact w/ so many people. It was a way of keeping an ongoing biography of all the people I met, so I could refer back to it.”
He says he can’t buy the official McCain camp line that Cindy’s drug abuse was kept from her husband, he saw and heard too much for any of their stories to make sense — like the time Cindy was allegedly taken to the hospital after an overdose and John rushed in to berate the doctors and nurses there before moving Cindy to their secluded Sedona ranch. Then there were the Hensley family interventions and the fact that Cindy’s drug abuse came to be something of an open secret among employees of the charity.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Whistleblower_breaks_15year_silence_to_allege_0911.html
Hmmmmm What goes around, comes around!! Time now for McCain to put up, or shut up!!
Morning JWink!
What the hell does the story on Cindy McCain have to do with the topic???
yes…isn’t it amazing how he has had this journal for 15 years and only now emerges with it?? Why didn’t he come forward with it 14 years ago when the story of her addiction first came out?
“thanks but no thanks” to the “Bridge to Nowhere,” even after that claim has been thoroughly debunked in the media as a falsehood.”
Excuse me? The Alaska Democratic party credits her with killing the “Bridge”. What am I missing here?
Actually, this is not the first time this Kindergarten story has come up. It come up in the debates with Mitt Romney, where Obama compared what he proposed with Massachusetts liberal sex education (already in place before Romney became Governor of Mass.)
From Rush Limbaugh Quote:
“Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K, six through 12; shall include instructions on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections including the prevention, transmission, and spread of HIV. Nothing in this section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene, or traditional courses in biology.” So, it’s there. This was Senate bill 0099, and this is the Bill that Obama voted for — and all the McCain ad says is exactly that, that Obama supported legislation to teach comprehensive sex education to kindergartners. It’s right here. K, six through 12. He voted for the bill. Now, he can go out there and try to revise history all he wants, but we have (shuffling papers) the legislation.
Let’s check that:
Full Text of SB00099: The Bill that Obama Pushed (regarding Kindergarten Sex Education)
21 (105 ILCS 110/3) (from Ch. 122, par. 863)
22 Sec. 3. Comprehensive Health Education Program.
23-33 (a) The program established under this Act shall include, but not be limited to, the following major educational areas as a basis for curricula in all elementary and secondary schools in this State: human ecology and health, human growth and development, the emotional, psychological, physiological, hygienic and social responsibilities of family life, including sexual abstinence and prevention of unintended pregnancy until marriage, prevention and control of disease, including age appropriate instruction in grades K 6 through 12 on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS, public and environmental (???) health, consumer health, safety education and disaster survival, mental health and illness, personal health habits, alcohol, drug use, and abuse including the medical and legal ramifications of alcohol, drug, and tobacco use, abuse during pregnancy, sexual abstinence until marriage, tobacco, nutrition, and dental health.
(13) Course material and instruction shall be free of racial, ethnic, gender, religious, and sexual orientation biases.
So, nothing is different from what the Bill states and what Limbaugh claims.
The video by McCain can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVLQhRiEXZs
After watching the video, I saw nothing that what was claim was actually true and in compliance with the bill that Obama pushed for in the Senate.
So,
The ad is not misleading.
The ad states what the bill would do.
McClatchy is spinning for Obama.
That’s all folks, gone on about your business. Arm flailing by the Liberal and the MSM has been crushed into its proper place.
gone = go on
(sips more coffee)
“swallow_my_nickel” asks –
“Why didn’t he come forward with it 14 years ago when the story of her addiction first came out?”
Reminds me of the story about Nikita Khrushchev’s first speech to the Supreme Soviet in 1954, after he ascended to power on Stalin’s death.
It’s hard to realize these days, but for the USSR and after decades of Stalin, Khrushchev was somewhat of a reformer. And his speech denounced many of the crimes and failures of Stalinism. One of the old-liners in the Politburo heckled, “If Stalin was so bad, why didn’t you speak up? Where were you?”
Nikita stopped, scowled at the crowd and fired back, “Who said that?!”
The place went silent.
“That’s where I was,” he said.
Okay, so John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) is no Nikita Khrushchev. (For one thing, Khrushchev dressed better.) But the story is evidence of why some people don’t step up to speak truth to Power.
Cindy McC*nt’s addiction is a personal trauma. But the way the Arizona Beer Queen’s manipulation of money, politics, and power wiggled her out of legal consequences for her several felony-level crimes is relevant. And important.
The Vision of the Left
Thomas Sowell
Tuesday, September 09, 2008
Conservatives, as well as liberals, would undoubtedly be happier living in the kind of world envisioned by the left.
Very few people have either a vested interest or an ideological preference for a world in which there are many inequalities.
Even fewer would prefer a world in which vast sums of money have to be devoted to military defense, when so much benefit could be produced if those resources were directed into medical research instead.
It is hardly surprising that young people prefer the political left. The only reason for rejecting the left’s vision is that the real world in which we live is very different from the world that the left perceives today or envisions for tomorrow.
Most of us learn that from experience– but experience is precisely what the young are lacking.
“Experience” is often just a fancy word for the mistakes that we belatedly realized we were making, only after the realities of the world made us pay a painful price for being wrong.
Those who are insulated from that pain– whether by being born into affluence or wealth, or shielded by the welfare state, or insulated by tenure in academia or in the federal judiciary– can remain in a state of perpetual immaturity.
Individuals can refuse to grow up, especially when surrounded in their work and in their social life by similarly situated and like-minded people.
Even people born into normal lives, but who have been able through talent or luck to escape into a world of celebrity and wealth, can likewise find themselves in the enviable position of being able to choose whether to grow up or not.
Those of us who can recall what it was like to be an adolescent must know that growing up can be a painful transition from the sheltered world of childhood.
No matter how much we may have wanted adult freedom, there was seldom the same enthusiasm for taking on the burdens of adult responsibilities and having to weigh painful trade-offs in a world that hemmed us in on all sides, long after we were liberated from parental restrictions.
Should we be surprised that the strongest supporters of the political left are found among the young, academics, limousine liberals with trust funds, media celebrities and federal judges?
These are hardly Karl Marx’s proletarians, who were supposed to bring on the revolution. The working class are in fact today among those most skeptical about the visions of the left.
Ordinary working class people did not lead the stampede to Barack Obama, even before his disdain for them slipped out in unguarded moments.
The agenda of the left is fine for the world that they envision as existing today and the world they want to create tomorrow.
That is a world not hemmed in on all sides by inherent constraints and the painful trade-offs that these constraints imply. Theirs is a world where there are attractive, win-win “solutions” in place of those ugly trade-offs in the world that the rest of us live in.
Theirs is a world where we can just talk to opposing nations and work things out, instead of having to pour tons of money into military equipment to keep them at bay. The left calls this “change” but in fact it is a set of notions that were tried out by the Western democracies in the 1930s– and which led to the most catastrophic war in history.
For those who bother to study history, it was precisely the opposite policies in the 1980s– pouring tons of money into military equipment– which brought the Cold War and its threat of nuclear annihilation to an end.
The left fought bitterly against that “arms race” which in fact lifted the burden of the Soviet threat, instead of leading to war as the elites claimed.
Personally, I wish Ronald Reagan could have talked the Soviets into being nicer, instead of having to spend all that money. Only experience makes me skeptical about that “kinder and gentler” approach and the vision behind it.
Same old lib news media trying to carry Obama’s water, and our money losing Eagle is part of it.
Randy
It appears that your entire post today is either an woefully uninformed mistake or an outright lie.
Which is it?
I’ve seen this ad.
How sad. John McCain has abandoned all pretense at honor and now has none.
I guess he is trying to live DOWN to the level of those whose vote he thinks he can get. They have no honor as a way of life.
I guess old John wants to feel like one of them.
It makes me ashamed that I must share a country with such despicable people.
McCain was right on target when he repackaged his campaign with a message of change. There’s only one glitch: he represents change for the worse.
Hard as it is to believe, in his decision making and in his blatant, up is down mendacious messaging, he gives every indication that his presidency would be even more of a disaster than the current White House exhibit.
As for Palin, McCain’s silver screen rollout of the vice presidential candidate can be seen as a picture of Nixonian dimensions, replete with nachos, popcorn and licorice. Every time the Alaskan Governor opens her mouth, she tells another whopper. The bridge-to-nowhere narrative is a true, blue mind-blower: Palin kept the dough and blew it on other projects. Her story, then, of having opposed the pork-barrel waste amounts to willful distortion of reality. (For more on Palin’s “pork-barrel opposition,” it shouldn’t be tough to round up information on her record as mayor.)
Welcome to McCain’s version of change. It’s a recurring matinee of wholly imagined hooey.
Get your popcorn! Get your peanuts! These people are unfit for high office.
John Keating McSame has said he knows how to catch Osama bin Laden. Why hasn’t he told the lying criminal Bush so that justice can be served?
McSame is a filthy, corrupt no-good pig.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/69Wraiths/08/McCave/mccainpig.jpg
McCain will catch Osama if taxpayers fork over billions to his lobbyist friends. Then he may take a small interest in the affair before forgetting what he was doing and ask for billions more to remind him.
The Republicans never had any interest in catching Osama. Osama has been great for bringing votes to the Republican party.
Who Am I?
I am under 45 years old,
I love the outdoors,
I hunt,
I am a Republican reformer,
I have taken on the Republican Party establishment,
I have many children,
I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president with less
than two years in the governor’s office.
Did you guess?
I am Teddy Roosevelt in 1900.
Hmmm so Sarah Palin is not qualified but Obama is?
B.J.
“It makes me ashamed that I must share a country with such despicable people.”
Some folks feel the same about you Dude.
Was the add a lie? No, it was factually correct. What’s the problem?
BlueJay
Posted September 11, 2008 at 7:12 am | Permalink
I’ve seen this ad.
How sad. John McCain has abandoned all pretense at honor and now has none.
————–
Is this the same person who called Sarah Palin a sow, fit to judge honor?
george Posted September 11, 2008 at 7:02 am |
“Same old lib news media trying to carry Obama’s water, and our money losing Eagle is part of it.”
and; HecklerPosted September 11, 2008 at 7:02 am
“Randy
It appears that your entire post today is either an woefully uninformed mistake or an outright lie.
Which is it?”
Amen to both comments.
I voted my opinion on this subject by canceling my subscription to the Eagle in print, no paper on the drive this morning and no loss felt.
And then voicing exactly your two sentiments to them when doing so.
Sarah Palin is no Teddy Roosevelt. But if you want a comparison here’s some things they have in common.
They hate minorities (Jews for Palin, Blacks for Ted)
They like dressing up in fancy outfits
They like shooting animals
That’s probably about it.
Just curious- what kind of sex education material is “age appropriate” for a kindergartner?
Teaching about sexually transmitted diseases? To a kindergartner?
thank you republicans for adding more to the debt
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8780c35e-7e91-11dd-b1af-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
Oxley hits back at ideologues
By Greg Farrell in New York
Published: September 9 2008 19:25 | Last updated: September 9 2008 19:25
In the aftermath of the US Treasury’s decision to seize control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, critics have hit at lax oversight of the mortgage companies.
The dominant theme has been that Congress let the two government-sponsored enterprises morph into a creature that eventually threatened the US financial system. Mike Oxley will have none of it.
Instead, the Ohio Republican who headed the House financial services committee until his retirement after mid-term elections last year, blames the mess on ideologues within the White House as well as Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.
The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley, now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.
He fumes about the criticism of his House colleagues. “All the handwringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this,” he says. “What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute.”
The House bill, the 2005 Federal Housing Finance Reform Act, would have created a stronger regulator with new powers to increase capital at Fannie and Freddie, to limit their portfolios and to deal with the possibility of receivership.
Mr Oxley reached out to Barney Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the committee and now its chairman, to secure support on the other side of the aisle. But after winning bipartisan support in the House, where the bill passed by 331 to 90 votes, the legislation lacked a champion in the Senate and faced hostility from the Bush administration.
Adamant that the only solution to the problems posed by Fannie and Freddie was their privatisation, the White House attacked the bill. Mr Greenspan also weighed in, saying that the House legislation was worse than no bill at all.
“We missed a golden opportunity that would have avoided a lot of the problems we’re facing now, if we hadn’t had such a firm ideological position at the White House and the Treasury and the Fed,” Mr Oxley says.
When Hank Paulson joined the administration as Treasury secretary in 2006 he sent emissaries to Capitol Hill to explore the possibility of reaching a compromise, but to no avail.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
Under video of the part of the ad that features Barack Obama, African sounding music is played.
A CLEAR pander to base racism.
“Is this the same person who called Sarah Palin a sow, fit to judge honor?”
I have much worse words for Sarah Palin and also for those who would support her. She has enjoyed rights and priveledges that she would deny others.
Big Surprise here. Who would have thought it?
The Wichita Eagle continues to show its non-partisan (Cough BS) coverage of only what McCain does “wrong” according to none other than… well… the media.
Outlander lies:
“Is this the same person who called Sarah Palin a sow, fit to judge honor?”
Too bad Republican liars can’t find a quote where Obama called Palin a pig. But dishonesty is a natural trait for Republicans.
On the other hand Palin laughed when a fellow Republican Lyda Green, a cancer survivor, was called a cancer and a bitch.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/palin-laughs-as-opponent_n_122776.html
Randy and McClatchy are so biased. They have forgotten (assuming they ever knew) how to be a real news reporter.
They can’t seem to understand why their paper is losing so much money. The layoffs just keep happening (where are the unions to help them)? Hopefully as some point the layoffs will finally hit the editorial board.
What else did one of the articles you linked to say?
Well, since you never bother to go after Obama, allow me:
Obama and the Democratic National Committee asserted for months that McCain wanted to keep U.S. troops fighting in Iraq for 100 years, when, in fact, the context of McCain’s 100-year statement was a comparison to U.S. bases in Japan and Germany. McCain explicitly said the troops would be there only if the country was at peace and there were no casualties associated with their presence.
A McCain quote Obama has often used — that the economy is fundamentally sound — is months old. Since he said that, McCain has said almost daily that the economy is struggling. As for exaggerations, Obama said yesterday that he had supported a measure in the Illinois Senate to double the number of charter schools in Chicago. In fact, he was one of 14 state senators co-sponsoring a non-controversial measure that passed unanimously.
Point of order maggotpunk.
It was I who called Sarah Palin a sow. Outlander is referring to me in questioning my honor.
I similarly question his.
No Nathan, he was specifically referring to Iraq and using Germany and Japan as a justification. It’s an old quote, and on video, you can look it up.
McCain aides said yesterday that nothing they have said about the bridge is untrue.
Palin did at one time support the Bridge to Nowhere, and the $223 million earmarked for the project was sent to Alaska. Some of it was used for other state projects, about $40 million was used to build an access road to the now-scrapped bridge project and $73 million is sitting in an account, awaiting some other proposal to link the tiny towns of Ketchikan and Gravina, according to the Alaska Department of Transportation.
But, McCain aides said, Palin indisputably turned on a project championed by two of her state’s Republican legends, Sen. Ted Stevens and Rep. Don Young. Even Alaska Democrats gave her credit for finally ending it.
Sorry Bluejay, I thought they were still lying about what Obama said. Republicans lie all the time, it’s hard to keep their lies straight.
What ad did Obama release just before McCain which was just as much a lie as McCains ad?
Here you go:
McCain spokesman Brian Rogers noted an Obama advertisement released yesterday that says, with no citation, that McCain’s economic plan would take money away from public schools. “Absolutely, it’s a lie,” Rogers said.
Why don’t we get a thread about the lies Obama is telling in his ads?
Why just McCain?
EDITORS you are nothing but cowards.
The Road to Nowhere was being built after Congress scrapped the Bridge to Nowhere. Palin had the money from the bridge and figured she’d waste it on something.
“that the economy is fundamentally sound”
words from McCain, a man who does not know how many houses he owns……
Nathan, McCain supports school vouchers. Having the same amount of funds spread among more schools (including private and religious) would deplete resources for public schools.
What Obama said is a mathematical fact.
Annie,
I think you missed this:
A McCain quote Obama has often used — that the economy is fundamentally sound — is months old. Since he said that, McCain has said almost daily that the economy is struggling. As for exaggerations, Obama said yesterday that he had supported a measure in the Illinois Senate to double the number of charter schools in Chicago. In fact, he was one of 14 state senators co-sponsoring a non-controversial measure that passed unanimously.
Isn’t it true that Palin rushed construction of infrastructure TO the “bridge to nowhere” in order to help secure the federal funding for the bridge?
BEFORE she opposed the bridge?
Palin has a history of that. She built infrastructure for a sports arena for Wasilla….
BEFORE the town had legal claim to the land.
EDITORS,
So why no thread on the misleading Obama ad?
Obama Got Big Donations From Freddie/Fannie
Submitted by politicalWinters on Wed, 09/10/2008 – 1:21pm. According to OpenSecrets.org, Barack Obama was the third-highest receiver of contributions from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the two mortgage buyers the government must now save.
The two companies and their employees have donated $105,849 to Obama. The highest is Sen. Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate banking committee at $133,900.
The contributions cover the years 1989 to 2008. Obama has been a senator for two years, so he’s gotten some serious cash in a very short time.
This was reported in the Topeka Capital Journal.
B.J.
“Isn’t it true that Palin rushed construction of infrastructure TO the “bridge to nowhere” in order to help secure the federal funding for the bridge?”
No. The Bridge was under construction before Palin became governor.
I forgot, only Democrats are allowed to run sleazy attack ads.
He’s changed alright. Just threw away his ‘integrity mantle’ and showed he’s no different than the current pres.
It shows the lack of character for all repubs. to back this kind of campaign and person.
The Maggot posts:
“Having the same amount of funds spread among more schools (including private and religious) would deplete resources for public schools.”
And it would also REDUCE THE NEED for resources because more students would choose private schools.
Of course that would NOT meet the REAL AGENDA of the NEA of funneling more and more of the taxpayers money to them.
Lets not forget what the true goal should be…to provide a quality education to kids, not support a teachers union.
I am through polluting my mind, reading this negative garbage. It demeans everyone involved and in a larger sense, our country.
No, today I am going to remember 911 and the bravery of the rescue workers who risk and lost their lives selflessly fighting to save those who couldn’t help themselves. I’m gonna think about the bravery of our men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. I will remember that this is a dangerous, evil world and that America is the shining city on the hill. We can not take that for granted.
I am going to think about the great and good things that this country has done and what it stands for, and against. I will think about the tremendous opportunities available, evidenced by the fact that a mixed race man or a family woman can rise from obscurity to the highest office in the land.
And finally, I will vow that I will not be part of this wretched culture of character assassination, that demeans our spirit and prevents the most qualified leaders from desiring to enter a career in politics. What kind of father would want his little girl to aspire to a career in politics, knowing what jackals await?
Enjoy your day.
Out.
The bill would have done more than warn kindergardeners about predators. The lesson plans include language about genitals, masturbation, and homosexuality.
This is far less “sleazy” than saying Palin’s primary qualification is that she never had an abortion.
I’d like to get the impressions of those that consider themselves (or had until recently) independents or not committed, to see how mccain’s sleaziness is playing with them.
Is anybody in there, just speak if you can hear me.
From the Maggot (how entirely appropriately named, BTW):
Sarah Palin is no Teddy Roosevelt. But if you want a comparison here’s some things they have in common.
They hate minorities (Jews for Palin, Blacks for Ted)
—–
Let me guess. This is today’s talking point from DailyKos. And some idiot here mindlessly pops it out.
Ok, not just some idiot – THIS idiot.
Any evidence for this lie? No. No?
NO!
Cripes, is the left SO afraid of Palin that they will stoop to anything?
Charge after charge comes from the left, and charge after charge is debunked. And still, the mouthpieces for the slop from Kos come.
The sex education Obama endorsed was to teach kids how to avoid sexual predators.
Nathaniel,
You are right, McCain’s comments about the soundness of the economy are several months old. He made those comments when he was still trying to get the republican nomination and felt he needed to suck up to the Bush lovers in the republican party.
Now that he is running a general election campaign, it is no longer a good idea to make such claims so he has changed his tune.
Thanks for pointing out that McCain is a flip flopper who will say anything to get elected.
Country first, my axx
GMC supports liars.
The “sex ed for kindergartners” that Obama supported but did not sponsor and that was never passed only taught kids about how to deal with potential child molestors.
GMC, do you support liars in your official capacity as a prosecutor or just in politics?
CapnAmerica supports liars.
CapnAmerica, do you support liars in whatever capacity you have or just in politics?
Dungflower5,
I’m still waiting for you to name which endorsements the candidate for State BoE from District 8 received that are “phony.”
You know, it’s easy to lie. And sometimes it’s illegal too.
Keep that in mind, liar.
Nathan,
You’re on ignore with ANTI and Raptor.
You bring nothing to the table.
Hmmmm… shoe on the other foot?
Randy, I find many of the Eagle’s editorial cartoon tacky, heavily biased, quite unfair.
Not to mention your leftist posts.
So physician ….
CapnAmerica,
A little bit of advice?
When you want to ignore someone, just do it. Telling someone you are ignoring them defeats the point.
CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 9:29 am | Permalink
You’re on ignore with ANTI and Raptor.
You bring nothing to the table.
========
I bring the Soul Turkey to the table.
I can certainly understand why so many old republican males (the majority of the party) would feel threatened by a lesson for young children on inappropriate touching.
Nathan
Isnt this about the 17th time Capn’s put you on his ignore list?
“GMC70″ hallucinates –
“Let me guess. This is today’s talking point from DailyKos.”
No. Let me guess.
You have nothing so you throw out the “talking point from DailyKos” meme like Tourette on acid, in hopes you escape from real issues.
Distract and Attack is all you CONs have.
Unless, of course, you can actually cite “today’s talking point from DailyKos.”
Which, of course, you can’t.
They don’t want young boys taught that it isn’t a good idea to shower with grown men!
Heckler,
This is the first time I have seen him put me on the ignore list. I doubt it will be the last.
I have seen him tell Regular about 17 times that he is ignoring him.
LOL
The childishness of it reminds me of grade school.
“Charge after charge comes from the left, and charge after charge is debunked.”
And while you’re at it, GMC, which charges have been debunked?
Palin tried to fire a librarian for not supporting the banning of books? True
Palin tried to fire her former bro-in-law Wooten a State Trooper during his messy divorce with her sister, and then claimed repeatedly that she didn’t try to fire him? True
Palin as mayor took her little town into millions of dollars of debt when it had been debt-free before? True
Palin fired the boss of the State Trooper she wanted fired because he wouldn’t fire Wooten? True
Palin got way more earmarks for her state than Obama got for Illinois? True
Palin hid her pregnancy as long as possible and then didn’t even tell her own children that their brother had Down’s syndrome even after he was born? True
Palin’s husband belongs to a union? True
Palin had an affair with her husband’s friend? Still pending . . .
Jed–
BINGO! LOL.
Yea, what was the economy like when mccain made those sound economy comments? The world’s changed in the last couple of months. sarcasm off.
The righties could try the ‘old news’ canard for palin.
Palin has the same qualifications as Teddy Roosevelt? Oh great, she’s going to raise a private regiment and dash up some hill in Cuba.. She’s going to build another “Great White Fleet” in a effort to intimidate the world. She’s going to get fat, and run around saying things like “Bully for you.” She’s going to lead safaris to Africa and kill elephants. She’s going to live a past century. Great, that’s just great..
The bill would have done more than warn kindergardeners about predators. The lesson plans include language about genitals, masturbation, and homosexuality.
Lesson plans? You do, I’m sure, have those lesson plans. Please share.
Jed says
“I can certainly understand why so many old republican males (the majority of the party) would feel threatened by a lesson for young children on inappropriate touching.”
Her’s a couple of reminders”
Former Rep. Gerry Studds. He was censured for sexual relationship with underage male page in 1983. Massachusetts voters returned him to office for six more terms.
2. Former Rep. Mel Reynolds. The Illinois Democrat was convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old. President Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office.
Oop.s THe Rep. doesn;t stand for Republican, it stands for Representative. WHose Represe4ntative? Democrats
Palin tried to fire a librarian for not supporting the banning of books?
LIE.
Palin tried to fire the librarian over administrative issues. Can you offer any real proof that she tried to fire the librarian due to not supporting the banning of books?
Palin tried to fire her former bro-in-law Wooten a State Trooper during his messy divorce with her sister, and then claimed repeatedly that she didn’t try to fire him?
LIE/TRUE
There is no proof that I know of which shows that Palin tried to fire Wooten. She did claim that she didn’t try to fire him.
Nate, Capn’A puts people on his “Ignore List” that repeatedly prove him wrong.
I wear it as a badge of honor. ;)
Palin as mayor took her little town into millions of dollars of debt when it had been debt-free before?
LIE/DELIBERATE MISTRUTH
The town had approved a sports complex and other bonds. This is the cause for the so called “debt”
Palin fired the boss of the State Trooper she wanted fired because he wouldn’t fire Wooten?
LIE
There is no evidence that this was why she fired Monegan. She fired him for other reasons which she is legally allowed to do. Only later did Monegan claim that he was fired because he wouldn’t fire Wooten.
Palin currently has welcomed an investigation into any wrong doing on her part.
Nathan needs to visit factcheck. Truth has a liberal bias though. Politico has a pretty good meter for those that like graphics better than reading.
Not true Nathan – all of those have been substantiated. I posted links yesterday.
People, when the reading primes says,
“See Spot”
(turn page)
“See Jane”
(turn page)
“See Dick”
(turn page)
“Jane went to the corner to get Dick”,
this is not sex ed nor pornography!
“Charge after charge comes from the left, and charge after charge is debunked.”
And while you’re at it, GMC, which charges have been debunked?
—
Uh, let’s just see, shall we:
Palin tried to fire a librarian for not supporting the banning of books? True
Uh no. False. 100% false.
—
Palin tried to fire her former bro-in-law Wooten a State Trooper during his messy divorce with her sister, and then claimed repeatedly that she didn’t try to fire him? True
The Trooper should have been fired. Domestic violence, tasering a child, indeed; you support that? He has no business being a trooper.
—
Palin as mayor took her little town into millions of dollars of debt when it had been debt-free before? True
We both know that debt is fairly routine for municipalities. Civic imporovements cost money, and require debt. And the VOTERS passed the tax to pay for the bonds- you do remember voters don’t you? Half – and distorted truth, i.e. Lie.
—
Palin fired the boss of the State Trooper she wanted fired because he wouldn’t fire Wooten? True
Jury’s still out. Given Wooten’s behavior, not a bad idea, however.
—
Palin got way more earmarks for her state than Obama got for Illinois? True
Roles change. Wearing the mayor hat, GETTING dollars is a plus. Moreover, Alaska has one of the highest percentages of federally owned land in the nation; it’s not a surprise that federal dollars come with that. Half truth, sorta.
—
Palin hid her pregnancy as long as possible and then didn’t even tell her own children that their brother had Down’s syndrome even after he was born? True
I have no idea. And why should I care? Why do you care? Of what business is it of yours?
—
Palin’s husband belongs to a union? True
And that’s bad, how?
—
Palin had an affair with her husband’s friend? Still pending . . .
No evidence whatsoever. And scraping the bottom of the slimepit here, though I’m not surprised the left is rolling in this sh**.
Palin scares the sh** out of you. And she should.
Palin had an affair with her husband’s friend? Still pending . . .
NOTHING BUT PURE IMMATURE SPECULATION MADE BY LIARS LIKE CAPNAMERICA.
Ben,
Links to what? Blogs pusihing rumors?
Everything I just posted is the truth. If you feel like showing otherwise, lets see those links you have again.
Phantom,
Feel free to post a link showing where anything I said is wrong.
IRONY
In a thread characterizing McCain’s latest ad as sleazy we still have the liberals pushing their Lies and rumors about Palin.
It is such a treat to watcht the two sides go back and forth. The bill does say “age appropriate” thats where you teach about improper touching etc. Especially if they attend a catholic school. By the way I have yet to see a McCain ad touting what he
plans to do specifically to turn Washington around. All I see is attack ads on Obama. Very Rove like tactics keep throwing enought mud and see what sticks. He is also keeping Palin on short lease and can’t wait to see her interview. Although I am sure she will be in a coaching clinic all day prior to interview. While I am not
an Obama fan I certainly dont like Mr. Change McCain’s tactics.
Both sets of accusations, however, seriously distort the record.
The original controversy dates to 2003, when a bill to modify the teaching of sex education in Illinois was introduced in the Legislature. The proposal was supported by a coalition of education and public health organizations, including the Illinois Parent Teacher Association, the Illinois State Medical Society, the Illinois Public Health Association and the Illinois Education Association.
Mr. Obama voted for the bill in committee, where it passed, but it never came to a full and final vote. The proposal called for “age and developmentally appropriate” sex education and also allowed parents the option of withdrawing their children from such classroom instruction if they felt that it clashed with their beliefs or values.
In referring to the sex-education bill, the McCain campaign is largely recycling old and discredited accusations made against Mr. Obama by Alan Keyes in their 2004 Senate race. At that time, Mr. Obama stated that he understood the main objective of the legislation, as it pertained to kindergarteners, to be to teach them how to defend themselves against sexual predators.
“I have a 6-year-old daughter and a 3-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean,” Mr. Obama said in 2004. “And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age.”
It is a misstatement of the bill’s purpose, therefore, to maintain, as the McCain campaign advertisement does, that Mr. Obama favored conventional sex education as a policy for 5-year-olds. Under the Illinois proposal, “medically accurate” education about more complicated topics, including intercourse, contraception and homosexuality, would have been reserved for older students in higher grades.
The advertisement, then, also misrepresents what the bill meant by “comprehensive.” The instruction the bill required was comprehensive in that it called for a curriculum that went from kindergarten and through high school, not in the sense that kindergarteners would have been fully exposed to the entire gamut of sex-related issues.
In another part of the advertisement, Mr. McCain maintains that Mr. Obama’s sole achievement in education was the sex-education bill. In reality, Mr. Obama not only helped administer a $49 million education project in Chicago in the 1990s, but also sponsored or co-sponsored measures that increased the number of charter schools in Illinois, and expanded federal grants to summer school programs and to historically black colleges.
As support for its contention that Mr. Obama is “wrong on education,” Mr. McCain’s advertisement cited criticism by Education Week, a trade publication. Mr. Obama “hasn’t made a significant mark on education” in his years in the Senate in Illinois and Washington, the advertisement asserts.
Education Week did indeed make that assessment in an article published last year. But in the same paragraph, the magazine also said that Mr. Obama “did promote early-childhood initiatives that advocates considered “innovative and progressive,” and also noted that “his biggest accomplishment in the field was the creation of a state board to oversee the expansion of early-childhood education in the state.”
The same publication has also criticized Mr. McCain, in language that was perhaps even stronger. Early this year, in an article titled “John McCain Where Art Thou?” it complained that he offered “a laundry list of fairly vague answers” on how to improve schools and did not make education a priority.
“McCain is a campaign-finance, foreign-relations, anti-abortion, tax-cut candidate,” the magazine said. “Education is not his thing. Depending on your perspective, McCain’s relative silence on education may be a good thing. If you think the federal government has grossly overreached into the state business of education, then he may be your guy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/us/politics/11checkpoint.html?em
P.S. Some of the things said about Palin are questionable or at least of questionable relevance. Unless one concludes that Ann Kilkenny was lying, she did in fact inquire about censoring books (Palin has never denied this, instead giving a dissembling answer). Palin also did threaten to fire the librarian, though she claims it was for not supporting the mayor’s plans to merge the library and the museum (like that’s any better!).
Doesn’t sound like a change agent to me:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13365.html
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=3&GA=93&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=99&GAID=3&LegID=734&SpecSess=&Session=
Here’s just a little bithttp://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html,
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccain-palin_distorts_our_finding.html
Gotta call a spade a spade. Rage’s link lays it out there. The ad should be pulled and appologized for.
A little more truth fodder:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html
Also the truth in todays paper shows Palin fired two
librarians.
By going off the deep end, mccain risks people automatically assuming his ads are gross misrepresentations or totally untrue. The credibility he hurts is his own.
Dave,
“She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin’s first term.”
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
Do you have a link?
“Belts out a James Taylor tune and dedicates it to the liars of the MSM and the Obama campaign.”
“I’m a Steam Roller Baby, and I’m gonna roll all over you…”
Sex Ed for Kindergarteners ‘Right Thing to Do,’ Says Obama
Email
Share July 18, 2007 1:13 PM
ABC News’ Teddy Davis and Lindsey Ellerson Report: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told Planned Parenthood Tuesday that sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is “age-appropriate,” is “the right thing to do.”
“I remember Alan Keyes . . . I remember him using this in his campaign against me,” Obama said in reference to the conservative firebrand who ran against him for the U.S. Senate in 2004. Sex education for kindergarteners had become an issue in his race against Keyes because of Obama’s work on the issue as chairman of the health committee in the Illinois state Senate.
“‘Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,’” said Obama mimicking Keyes’ distinctive style of speech. “Which — I didn’t know what to tell him (laughter).”
“But it’s the right thing to do,” Obama continued, “to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools.”
Watch the video:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3386492
Speaking to a young woman who asked a question about sex education, Obama said, “You, as a peer, can have enormous power over your age cohort but you’ve got to have some support from the schools. You certainly should not have to be fighting each and every instance by providing accurate information outside of the classroom because inside the classroom the only thing that can be talked about is abstinence.”
“Keep in mind: I honor and respect young people who choose to delay sexual activity,” Obama continued. “I’ve got two daughters, and I want them to understand that sex is not something casual. That’s something that we definitely want to communicate and should be part of any curriculum. But we also know that when the statistics tell us that nearly half of 15 to 19 year olds are engaging in sexual activity, that for us to leave them in ignorance is potentially consigning them to illness, pregnancy, poverty, and in some cases, death.”
When Obama’s campaign was asked by ABC News to explain what kind of sex education Obama considers “age appropriate” for kindergarteners, the Obama campaign pointed to an Oct. 6, 2004 story from the Daily Herald in which Obama had “moved to clarify” in his Senate campaign that he “does not support teaching explicit sex education to children in kindergarten. . . The legislation in question was a state Senate measure last year that aimed to update Illinois’ sex education standards with ‘medically accurate’ information . . . ‘Nobody’s suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,’ Obama said. ‘If they ask a teacher ‘where do babies come from,’ that providing information that the fact is that it’s not a stork is probably not an unhealthy thing. Although again, that’s going to be determined on a case by case basis by local communities and local school boards.’”
In addition to local schools informing kindergarteners that babies do not come from the stork, the state legislation Obama supported in Illinois, which contained an “opt out” provision for parents, also envisioned teaching kindergarteners about “inappropriate touching,” according to Obama’s presidential campaign. Despite Obama’s support, the legislation was not enacted.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-for-kind.html
Wasilla keeps librarian, but police chief is out (2/1/1997)
“City librarian Mary Ellen Emmons will stay, but Police Chief Irl Stambaugh is on his own, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin announced Friday. The decision came one day after letters signed by Palin were dropped on Stambaugh’s and Emmon’s desks, telling them their jobs were over as of Feb. 13.”
…
“Palin said she asked Emmons if she would support efforts to merge the library and museum operations. Emmons said she would, according to Palin.”
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/510219.html
Read the bill for yourself, people. :roll:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/mccain%E2%80%99s-sleazy-new-attack-ad/#comment-422492
I’ll second Rage’s 11:04 post; read the bill for yourself, at the link provided.
Sol, I agree with you; that ad should be pulled forthwith, and although I’ll not hold my breath, an apology would be appropriate.
The latest about the library books:
Palin has acknowledged she twice raised the issue in 1996 of how books could be removed from the shelves, but said it was only a “rhetorical question” and that she did not ask for any books to be banned.
Palin’s church at the time, the Assembly of God, had been pushing for the removal a book called “Pastor I Am Gay” from local bookstores, according to the book’s author Pastor Howard Bess, of the Church of the Covenant in nearby Palmer, Alaska.
“And she was one of them,” said Bess, “this whole thing of controlling information, censorship, that’s part of the scene,” said Bess.
According to coverage in the local newspaper, the Frontiersman, Palin asked the librarian at a meeting “if she would object to censorship even if people were circling the library in protest about a book.”
The report quotes the librarian as responding, “I told her clearly I will fight anyone who tries to indicate what books can go on the library shelves.”
The same week that Palin raised the issue she fired Baker (then using her married name Emmons) as librarian, claiming she was not “loyal” to the new administration and had supported Palin’s opponent in the election. She said the dismissal was not connected to questions of censorship, and that she had dismissed all city department heads and told them they could re-apply for their jobs.
After a public outcry, Palin rescinded the dismissal of the librarian.
The local newspaper reporter who covered the controversy, Paul Stuart, claims he was later told by the librarian that Palin wanted three specific books removed from the library.
In her statement to ABC News, the librarian said, “I am unable to dispute or substantiate the information Paul Stuart provided to you.”
Stuart said he was confident of his memory. “She may have said that but that’s not how it was.”
After she got her job back, Baker spent two more years in Wasilla before leaving for a library job in Fairbanks.
She would not address her reasons for leaving Wasilla, but friends say she felt badly treated by Mayor Palin.
“I don’t care to revisit that time in my life,” Baker told ABC News.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5766173&page=2
Right along with the lipstick ad.
So Rage, what is sleazy about the video?
Obama was for the bill. The Bill was about comprehensive sex education including kindergarten aged children.
Here’s the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVLQhRiEXZs
I find nothing sleazy about the video and it demonstrates what Obama has publicly stated about being for the bill and what its goals are.
The truth hits home.
But nice spin anyway.
And the dirt digger air drop ad. Mccain might be forced to start talkin issues in his ads.
McClatchy = liberal = lies
Bridge to nowhere?
Are they talking about the bridge that Obama an Binden voted for even when they could have used that money for Katrina vitims they still chose to fund the bridge?
Palin for President.
So Rage, what is sleazy about the video?
Read the summary above, and what McClatchy, the NYT and Factcheck.org have all pointed out.
I’m not going to belabor the obvious.
The main reason why this bill is totally wrong is this:
Sex education should NOT be taught in or by the government school system, period.
This should only be taught by parents or a responsible legal gaurdian or family member.
Parenting is a very important role in the lives of children, and until you are ready to be an effective one, consider the outcomes of your choices seriously, that you make in your life, if you want to have children.
American, as you know, the bill never passed.
As to your observations that sex education should not be taught “in or by the government school system, period[.]“, you would approve of it being taught only in private schools?
It is unfortunate that the schools have had this burden placed upon them; I’d suggest one reason therefor is the abject failure of parents to timely and appropriately address this with their children, and the schools have been tasked with filling the vacuum created as a result thereof.
(The following is from Wikipedia. Sources are indicated and can be reviewed for accuracy.)
The controversy’s exposure began with the 2006 National Appropriations Bill. On October 20, 2005, the national level annual budget was issued for the Department of Transportation, Housing, and Urban Development. The H.R. 3058 [109th] act passed with 93 votes for, 1 against. [8]
In October 21st 2005, Republican Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska became the object of strong media criticism when, in amendment discussion of the 2006 Appropriations bill, he opposed diverting the Gravina and Knik Arm Bridge funds to help aid recovery from Hurricane Katrina.[9] In his speech on the Senate floor, Stevens threatened to quit Congress if the funds were removed from his state.[10]
On Wednesday November 16, 2005 : Congress stripped the specific earmark allocation of federal funds for the two bridges in the bill, without changing the amount of money allocated for use by Alaska.[11] [12][13]
“In September [20th], 2006, Sarah Palin showed up in Ketchikan on her gubernatorial campaign and said the bridge was essential for the town’s prosperity.” [14][15]In September 2006, during her campaign for Governor, Sarah Palin visited Ketchikan to express her support for the Gravina Island Bridge project. At a public forum, Palin held up a pro-bridge t-shirt designed by a Ketchikan artist, Mary Ida Henrikson. The legend on the shirt was “Nowhere Alaska 99901″, referencing the buzzword of “Bridge to Nowhere” and the primary zip code of Ketchikan. In her public comments, referring to her own residence in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley, she said: “OK, you’ve got Valley trash standing here in the middle of nowhere. I think we’re going to make a good team as we progress that bridge project.”[16]
In October, when asked, “Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?”, she answered: “Yes. I would like to see Alaska’s infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now – while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.”[17] Later that month, at a Chamber of Commerce meeting in Wasilla, Alaska, Democratic candidate Tony Knowles criticized Palin for supporting the Knik Arm Bridge, the Gravina Island Bridge, and a road north out of Juneau instead of rebuilding the Parks Highway. The Ketchikan Daily News noted that, of the gubernatorial candidates, “Only Palin is consistent in support all of the projects…”[18]
In August 2007, Alaska’s Department of Transportation stated that it was “leaning” toward alternative ferry options, citing bridge costs, despite having already received the funds from the federal government.[19]
The project was canceled in 2007 by bridge supporter [20][21][22][23] Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who changed her view [24][25] after national public opinion turned against the bridge for being wasteful spending.[26] Palin stated:
Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer. Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it’s clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island. Much of the public’s attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here. But we need to focus on what we can do, rather than fight over what has happened.[27][28]
Asked why she initially supported the bridge, Palin’s communications director Bill McAllister said, “It was never at the top of her priority list, and in fact the project isn’t necessarily dead … there’s still the potential for improved ferry service or even a bridge of a less costly design… She changed her mind, he said, when “she saw that Alaska was being perceived as taking from the country and not giving …”[29]
The city of Ketchikan has already begun to develop roads and a small amount of infrastructure for the Gravina Island’s 50 inhabitants. However, residents continue to seek funding for the Ketchikan-Gravina span.[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge
(cited: http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html)
No I would not agree that private schools should teach sex education.
Have to agree with you American. Since when did the government take over parenting.
Explains a lot about ‘drive by’ parents though.
It is unfortunate that the schools have had this burden placed upon them; I’d suggest one reason therefor is the abject failure of parents to timely and appropriately address this with their children, and the schools have been tasked with filling the vacuum created as a result thereof.
I second that.
VT,
One recourse I would recommend; when kids break the law, the parents are held responsible. The government is still involved, but it is involved at a level that will force parents to parent. A crime has been committed and needs to be paid for. Let the parent pay financially or through loss of freedom.
Be careful with Wikipedia. It is sometimes no more than opinion.
Be careful with Wikipedia. It is sometimes no more than opinion.
#
Rage
Posted September 11, 2008 at 11:24 am | Permalink
So Rage, what is sleazy about the video?
Read the summary above, and what McClatchy, the NYT and Factcheck.org have all pointed out.
I’m not going to belabor the obvious.
———————————————–
I read them and the bill. The Bill does not implicitly ferret out what should be taught and what is age appropriate. Perhaps this is why it was defeated?
Besides, the ad goes directly to the heart of the matter, that is, Obama’s judgment on important matters.
If children are minors, the parents should be held legally accountable for their childrens actions.
BINGO!!!!!
American,
While the ideal situation would be for parents to educate their children about sex, there are many parents out there who don’t know the first thing about their own bodies and how they work.
We’ve all heard stories about girls who think they can’t get pregnant if they do certain things, including timing and withdrawal. There was no sex education in schools when I was young. I was nineteen when I discovered an article in Seventeen magazine that laid it all out and informed me of a woman’s most fertile times.
Yes, it’s sad that schools have to teach our children about their bodies and how to stay safe, but oo many parents either don’t take the time or aren’t informed and pass on erroneous information. I’d rather my children get the facts, rather than street wisdom. Well, except for that middle school PE teacher my youngest had, who told the class that artificial insemination was done with a turkey baster.
American, note the footnotes to sources set out in the Wikipedia article posted by Pre; as she stated, if you have a quarrel with the article, you may review the sources to determine whether they support the piece’s substance.
And, yes, sometimes a Wikipedia article is no more than opinion; that’s why, when I use it for a “quick and dirty” reference, I read the original sources given.
“It is unfortunate that the schools have had this burden placed upon them; I’d suggest one reason therefor is the abject failure of parents to timely and appropriately address this with their children, and the schools have been tasked with filling the vacuum created as a result thereof.”
In the real world, parents fall down in their responsibilities in many ways…but the lack of knowledge rergarding sex and reproduction among our young people does the most harm when it affects our kids.
Rather than seeing it as a “burden”, I see the schools having a wonderful opportunity to teach children not only about reproduction, but also about healthy relationships, partenting skills, and how to value and respect oneself. It’s essential to our society that kids learn sex education in a healthy and informed way, it matters less who is teaching it to them.
Mary,
Not to “pee on the campfire”, but would you feel the same if the school taught abstinence only?
I read them and the bill. The Bill does not implicitly ferret out what should be taught and what is age appropriate.
So are you saying that you don’t trust your school district, including teachers and BoE members, to choose what is and isn’t appropriate? I believe the bill clearly stated that parents could opt out their children.
It’s funny how it’s okay for recruiters to be at school, enticing students with promises of money and travel, but forget to tell them that joining just might mean the end of their life. (Another opt-out situation.) Shouldn’t THAT be something parents should be talking to their children about?
To make a parent liable for the actions of their minor children seems to me to be another proposed simple answer to a complex problem. How do you propose to make a parent liable, within the strictures of the Constitution and statutes, for criminal acts of their children, unless the parents are an accessory to the crime (which, it should be noted, is a separate crime in and of itself), for example.
Civil liability raises another issue; what did the parents do that was a proximate cause of the injury to a third party’s person or property by the child? Or, in the case of certain torts, what knowledge did the parent have that the child was going to commit the act before it was committed, and did the parent act “as a reasonable person” in what s/he did thereafter?
And, what does this do to the concept of personal responsibility, and punishment of the wrongdoer? One cannot legislate parenting any more than one can legislate morality, IMHO; although, Sol and American, your proposal would provide full employment to many attorneys.
#
Predestined
Posted September 11, 2008 at 11:54 am | Permalink
So are you saying that you don’t trust your school district, including teachers and BoE members, to choose what is and isn’t appropriate? I believe the bill clearly stated that parents could opt out their children.
It’s funny how it’s okay for recruiters to be at school, enticing students with promises of money and travel, but forget to tell them that joining just might mean the end of their life. (Another opt-out situation.) Shouldn’t THAT be something parents should be talking to their children about?
————————-
Actually, no I doubt trust the the school systems to implement the contents of a bill that was so open-ended, you could drive a Mac truck through the loopholes.
er
no I doubt trust
should be
no I don’t trust
Are children the responsibility of the parents?
And, yes, sometimes a Wikipedia article is no more than opinion; that’s why, when I use it for a “quick and dirty” reference, I read the original sources given.
Thanks, VT. I did check a few of the sources, especially those elements we’ve discussed here. Most of the Ketchikan articles are “premium”, so I couldn’t get to them. However, the adn (Anchorage Daily News) had several that supported what was stated in the Wiki article.
I didn’t check each and every source. If I had, it would take half a day, and I’d be copy & pasting a huge amount of information that would only be scrolled over.
Yes, American, take it with a grain of salt and do check out the articles that are cited.
I would say that until we have effective parents (husband and wife) in this country that have made hard and right decisions about their marraige first, and then choose to have children as an outflowing of that, and also choose to be mentors to their children and TEACH them all the areas needed to be taught about life, nothing will change. We will continue to see all the youth problems we see today.
The school systems we have are not and cannot be in the proper relationship with the child to teach about sex and/or relationships.
Are children the responsibility of the parents?
In what respect, Sol?
Regular, it’s clear you don’t have children.
I would say that until we have effective parents (husband and wife)
I wish you a lot of luck on that, American. In a perfect world…
Sol, Abstinence only doesn’t work( who the hell waits till their married to have sex?), one just has to look at the Republican VP’s family, yet Abstinence should be included in any comprehensive Sex ed plan
GMC asserts without proof Palin tried to fire a librarian for not supporting the banning of books? True
Uh no. False. 100% false.
However, this is proven true by Rage’s ABC link above.
“Not to “pee on the campfire”, but would you feel the same if the school taught abstinence only?”
I think that the schools need to give correct information regarding sexuality and reproduction, which would include the truth that the only way to keep from getting pregnant is by not having sex with the opposite gender.
I think schools that teach abstinence only are wrong in their thinking that if you withhold certain information, kids won’t experiment with sex.
Birth control is just one small aspect of sex education. Sexuality and reproduction encompasses a whole range of issues (parenting, child development, domestic violence, to name just a few) of which I think there should be 4 years of such education required in high school….I know I sure used my relationship and parenting skills much more than I used algebra when I became and adult and a parent.
Yup. With all the rucus about Palin (the left is VERY worried about her) we kinda forgot about the subject at hand: the ad.
It’s at best misleading, at worst, a flat-out misrepresentation. It should be pulled, with an apology. Something along these lines:
“My friends, in the heat of battle things are sometimes said that upon reflection should not have been said. And this ad is one of them. I did approve the ad, but on further reflection it was the wrong thing to do. While I may differ with Mr. Obama on a number of issues, this ad misstates the intent and purposes of the bill in question, and implies a meaning that is not true. I have pulled the ad, and offer my apologies to Mr. Obama and the American people.
McCain is better than that. He has been before, anyway. Obama, to his credit, has largely been better than that, though his surrogates are more than a little out of hand.
McCain nees to step back from the precipice.
—
There’s no excuse for the ad, and it should be pulled. It is in however some ways understandable. There is a natural tendancy to want to repond in kind. From The Right Coast:
The frenzy about Sarah Palin has changed things, maybe permanently. It was (and is) a reflex spasm of hatred, coming from people – obviously including lots and lots of the media – who had never heard of Sarah Palin until McCain announced her. (Just a week ago Friday: it seems longer ago than that, doesn’t it?) It almost instantly went far beyond an inquiry into her qualifications and fitness for the vice presidency – about which reasonable people can certainly differ. The unhinged animus (good word; nothing to do with pigs) is too obvious for anyone to miss. And instead of carefully ignoring it or smoothing it over with public-relations cover, as the media usually do with anything ugly on the left, this time the media openly joined in and led the crazy charge.
For once, there seems to be a price to be paid. Suddenly the political race is tied, or Obama is even falling behind. Ballistic left-liberalism hasn’t been politely ignored this time. It’s as though the country is suddenly asking “Do we really want to be ruled by armies of people with this outlook, whom Obama would bring in, all up and down the federal government?”
http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2008/09/last-week-may-h.html
We’ve certainly seen that here, haven’t we? If Obama loses, we may see the “angry left” go ballistic in ways heretofor not imagined; BDS will be mild in comparison. On the other hand, if Obama wins, are we in for another 8 years of sniping like we have with the Clinton years? Frankly, Obama is very like Clinton in many ways; both seem to share a messianic belief, an inner arrogance, that we must be saved and only they can save us.
The price of all than animus, on both sides, may result in a nation that, whoever wins, is essentially ungovernable, at least in terms of the ability to make substantial change.
Both sides have a responsibility to step back. Both sides must restrain their more extreme elements, and restrain their desire to win. I believe in their hearts, both sides do indeed seek to put “country first.” At some point, each side has to conclude that winning, if it means winning at all costs, does their country no service. Both sides have begun to believe their own propoganda – that the very survival of civilization demands that they win, that this election is “too important” to tolerate anything but victory. Balony. Such language supports an “end justifies the means” mentality. Whichever side wins, the Republic will survive. But will it be a republic we want to be a part of?
Just thinking out loud. We all succumb to our worst natures at times; we’re political animals, here, and frankly, the snarking is simply too much fun to walk away from. But we have to live together after this election, no matter who wins.
Palin as mayor took her little town into millions of dollars of debt when it had been debt-free before? True
We both know that debt is fairly routine for municipalities.
Not when they have populations of 9,000. Thanks for admitting this is true.
GMC admits that all but the last charge is true.
Thanks for the back up, dude.
****
BTW, do you ever win any cases given your “facts don’t matter” attitude?
So Sol are you saying that all actions of Children, the parents are responsible? so the parents of a school shooter should go to prison? or the parents of a kid who hangs himself?
No one ever benefits by being ignorant…especailly when it comes to sex. To think that not giving kids certain info will keep them out of trouble is sticking one’s head in the sand.
Has it ever worked?
“SolDevVB
Posted September 11, 2008 at 11:59 am | Permalink
Are children the responsibility of the parents?”
Minor children are, absolutely. They depend upon the parents.
They are not “considered” of legal age, although, some otherwise are other than age.
Sure the children should have consequences to themsleves due to their actions (good and bad), but parents of minors should share the consequences as they are overseers.
GMC-
Good post at 12:05
#
Predestined
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
Are children the responsibility of the parents?
In what respect, Sol?
Regular, it’s clear you don’t have children.
——————
Oh?
How is it clear? :)
GMC asserts inexplicably, “McCain is better than that.”
Obviously, he’s not. He ran the ad with malice aforethought–the same way Bush-Cheney-Rove slimed Kerry’s war medals.
The logical conclusion to which the facts inexorably lead is that McCain’s a right-wing POS, just like the rest of them.
Responsible in what ways, Sol? Morally or legally? If legally, criminally or civilly?
Hypothetical: Parent lawfully owns a weapon. Child, while a minor, wrongfully (without permission) takes the same and shoots up a school, killing four, wounding ten. Should the parent then be liable for the criminal actions of the child, whether criminally or civilly? If so, why?
Hypothetical next: Parent, due to a medical condition, lawfully possesses a prescription for narcotic pain medications. Minor child steals some of the “pills”, and before the theft is discovered or can reasonably be discovered, sells them to other minors, and is arrested therefor. Should the parent then have criminal liability along with the minor? Should the parent be exposed to civil liability for the child’s actions? Again, if your answer is in the affirmative, state your reasoning.
A parent has the legal responsibility to support his/her children. That is clear. “Support” means more than paying child support, but that’s how it comes down in divorces, it seems.
“TomPaine
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:03 pm | Permalink
Sol, Abstinence only doesn’t work( who the hell waits till their married to have sex?), one just has to look at the Republican VP’s family, yet Abstinence should be included in any comprehensive Sex ed plan”
Is waiting to do something a decision you can make?
Predestined
In what respect, Sol?
All respects.
TomPaine
Abstinence only doesn’t work
Agreed. Actually that is my point.
Mary_Caruso
I think that the schools need to give correct information regarding sexuality
And more to my point Mary. If you live in a strong religious community, you run the risk of this being mandated, abstinence only. That is why I feel the school should not be left to educate our children with regards to our personal values – strong monogamous relationships, respect, etc. When I had sex ed in school, it was physicality only.
Lessons like these are best taught, IMO, by parents and family.
CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:03 pm | Permalink
GMC asserts without proof Palin tried to fire a librarian for not supporting the banning of books? True
Uh no. False. 100% false.
However, this is proven true by Rage’s ABC link above.
—–
No, Capn, nothing is “proven true” all. The charge is a bald-faced lie.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/2
One accusation claims then-Mayor Palin threatened to fire Wasilla’s librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren’t even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didn’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. The librarian never claimed that Palin threatened outright to fire her for refusing to ban books.
There ya go. It’s a lie. Rage is wrong. Game, set, match.
As to the others, you’ve got nothing. The charges are either
1) irrelevent (would I care when she told her family of the pregnancy or the Down syndrome? Why would you care?) – or –
2) distortions (the “municipalities in debt” smear – the VOTERS approved the bonds, numbnuts!)
Either way, they are smears, and show more than anything else just how worried the left is. Palin terrifies you.
And she should.
CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
GMC asserts inexplicably, “McCain is better than that.”
Obviously, he’s not. He ran the ad with malice aforethought–the same way Bush-Cheney-Rove slimed Kerry’s war medals.
———————-
Kerry slimed his own war medals when he symbolically threw them away and stated he didn’t want them.
Perhaps it comes from gowing up on a farm, in a rural community, perhaps not. Can;t really say. But I am over 50 years old, I knew how people got pregnant before High school, and I knew how to prevent it. Ummm. My parents said litle. I remember some video in jr high, but very little of it.
In my opinion, it is not the schools responsibility to teach sex ed. Nor is it my opinion that such teaching is effective, but I really don;t have any objection other than it takes away from teaching other material.
Gee, I thought you were better than that, GMC.
Hey, wait . . . no, I didn’t. This is par.
Inconvenient facts just don’t exist if you’re GMC.
“TomPaine
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:03 pm | Permalink
Sol, Abstinence only doesn’t work( who the hell waits till their married to have sex?), one just has to look at the Republican VP’s family, yet Abstinence should be included in any comprehensive Sex ed plan”
Like anybody else, they (the daughter and the boy friend) will face the consequences of the actions, and it looks like they are not compounding the issue by having an abortion. They are taking responsibility. Will it be easy? No. But life is sometimes not easy.
That’s great, LJ.
But apparently Palin’s fornicating (the right-wing word for it) daughter didn’t know how to prevent pregnancy.
That should be all the proof one needs for how well the current “faith based” sex-ed standards are working.
The Crapn is doing his Don Quixote impersonation today.
Arm flailing at its finest by CraponAmerica.
American shows the idiotic moralism of the right wing.
You can screw around before you’re married as long as you are punished for it for the rest of your life.
A couple of dozen condoms could have prevented the whole deal, but that would deny the wingers the punishment for sex that they demand.
Put some lipstick on it Schofield, it’ll make it all better.
Could somebody point me to where Schofield writes something nice about McCain? I’m not finding anything. You know, this ‘mainstream media’ really makes it hard for me to find ‘mainstream’ stuff.
“Snot is running down his nose”
Hey, Aqualung.
1) whether criminally or civilly? If so, why?
Yes. The parent did not properly secure the weapon and did not properly train the child. If you have any doubt that your child would miss-use the weapon, either remove the weapon from the premises or properly secure it.
2) Should the parent then have criminal liability along with the minor? Should the parent be exposed to civil liability for the child’s actions? Again, if your answer is in the affirmative, state your reasoning.
Pretty much as stated above.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:25 pm | Permalink
“Snot is running down his nose”
Hey, Aqualung.
———————–
Too bad you aren’t old enough to have heard Jethro Tull before you had sufficient pubes to understand it.
Inconvenient facts just don’t exist if you’re GMC.
Apparently so. He states flatly that I’m “wrong”–but what have I stated that’s wrong?
Maybe Mary Ellen Emmons, as quoted in the Frontiersman, was wrong. Or maybe the reporter, Paul Stuart, was wrong (though I notice that Emmons–now Baker–did not refute him). Maybe Ann Kilkenny is wrong.
This is what I stated above:
Unless one concludes that Ann Kilkenny was lying, she did in fact inquire about censoring books (Palin has never denied this, instead giving a dissembling answer). Palin also did threaten to fire the librarian, though she claims it was for not supporting the mayor’s plans to merge the library and the museum (like that’s any better!).
Point to a single assertion that’s wrong.
Cripes. Rage left off the first part of the article, ya know, the part that undercuts her premise.
Here’s the part she left out:
The librarian at the center of a 1996 controversy with then-Wasilla mayor Sarah Palin says she can’t recall any effort by Palin to ban specific books from the town library.
The VP candidate butted heads with a librarian while mayor of Wasilla, Alaska.In her first public statement since Palin was named the GOP vice-presidential candidate, Mary Ellen Baker said today, “I simply do not recall a conversation with specific titles,” Baker told ABCNews.com.
Palin has acknowledged she twice raised the issue in 1996 of how books could be removed from the shelves, but said it was only a “rhetorical question” and that she did not ask for any books to be banned.
Here’s the link. You can go and read it – all of it – for yourself. Cripes, folks, a lie of ommission, where relevant and meaning-changing information is left out – is still a lie.
Gosh – you think it’s important to tell the WHOLE story?
And Capn – your “fact-challenged” self is welcome to come on over and see how much facts matter. I deal with real facts everyday – not half-truths, not inuendo, not implied distortions, which are your stock in trade, and which you so blithly wrap under the heading “facts.”
But then, I’ve come to expect as much from you. I have no illusions that you’re better than that.
“CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:24 pm | Permalink
American shows the idiotic moralism of the right wing.
You can screw around before you’re married as long as you are punished for it for the rest of your life.
A couple of dozen condoms could have prevented the whole deal, but that would deny the wingers the punishment for sex that they demand.”
Exactly how is she to be punished for the rest of her life?
Wouldn’t it be more punishment, if a person doesn’t have a conscience, to kill the baby?
Wouldn’t the choice to wait have solved that?
Ooops. Here IS the link:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5766173&page=1
There ya go.
OK, Sol, read you loud and clear.
Would your answer be the same had I added to my hypothetical that the firearm was properly secured, and that the minor had been able to break the lock or whatever to obtain it and the needed ammunition (also properly secured), together with the additional fact that there was no evidence that the minor would misuse the weapon,and received appropriate training?
On the second one, I suspect your answer would be the same even if the meds were not left laying around, and the minor had been instructed to leave them alone. Am I correct?
GMC,
This was all pointed out to Rage several days ago.
Evidently, Rage likes some of the truth some of time, but not all of the truth some of the time, but instead portrays using weasel words by using omission as displaying distorted truth most of the time.
Omission – specialties of the left.
Falls under perjury laws when making false statements by omission.
That’s a lot like lying. :D
I once had a discussion with a mental health counselor about how two kids raised by the same two parents using the same values and moral could turn out as complete opposites. One only needed talking to when he’d done wrong, the other was “out of bounds” with many things.
The counselor told me that he’d studied several experts on this, and one, especially made sense. (I forget the title of the book, but it had to do with “Choices”.) The gist of it was that parents teach their children right from wrong throughout their childhood, giving them direction and values, etc. At about the age of 11, children tend to start listening to their peers more than their parents. Some will blow off what they were taught by their parents and get into trouble, others will remember the lessons and stay on the straight and narrow. It all comes down to the choices they make, and only they can make those. Teaching them is the best thing, but it won’t, in and of itself, mean they will put those things taught to good use, especially when peers are urging them in another direction.
So I can’t see how making the parents pay for a child’s mistake would always–if ever–make a difference in the future of that child.
I’ve seen parents who take financial responsibility and more for their child’s actions, sometimes to the degree of using lawyers and such to “get them off”. The child only continues the behavior, no matter what restrictions the parents put on the child. That child grows up to be an adult who still doesn’t take responsibility for his/her actions.
Pre, roger that (as to your 12:36 post).
VT,
The first one is tough. At that point, I would have to say that the child had some sort of mental failing. Were that to be proven, then no, the parent should not be held libel unless of course the mental failing was due to actions of the parent.
It would also be pertinent, to me anyway, how the weapon was secured. If the weapon was in a weapons safe and the parent gave the child the combination, all bets are off. If it was a simple trigger guard that was ‘easily defeated’ then all bets are off.
Guess it is kind of hard to do with generalities.
To the second one, yes you are correct. It is the responsibility of the parent to safeguard dangerous items and to teach the child to be responsible – i.e. don’t take what isn’t yours etc.
“Predestined
Posted September 11, 2008 at 12:02 pm | Permalink
I would say that until we have effective parents (husband and wife)
I wish you a lot of luck on that, American. In a perfect world…”
It is simply an ideal to bring to possible realization through us as citizens and parents.
I admit to not being a perfect parent. But I also believe that we as a society have abdicated our authority AND RESPONSIBILTY AS parents by giving the school systems that same responsibilty and AUTHORITY.
Pre,
Understand your point. I would counter with, as you state, children are different. You may not be able to use the same tactics on different children.
From your story, I would be very interested to know which was first born – the easy one or the ‘hard case’.
I am around children (mine and other’s) quite often. What I try to do in my limited time with them, is to find individual pressure points. Ways of letting the child know that what I am saying is important and they need to listen/comply.
With one, all I need os eye contact and they are good to go. With another, I have to tell them to repeat what I said and they are good to go. With another, I have to take time away from them. A time out if you will.
Parenting is a skill. A skill I thin all of us parents need to keep honing. We will never be as good a parent as we wish we were, and we should never stop trying.
And BTW Rage, apologies. IIRC, you are not a “her” but very much a “he.” I’m not sure why I got it into my head you were female. Apologies offered.
I don’t mind disagreeing with you (obviously) on matters where reasonable people can disagree, but that I should get right.
Of course, sometimes we can’t even agree on what the “facts” are.
:-)
One of the most interesting articles I’ve ever read on the question of why children raised by same parents with presumably same standards, etc. turn out so differently was in Newsweek recently. Titled, “But I Did Everything Right!”
Scientists have discovered a genetic variant and children who carry this “glitch” are unable to learn from mistakes.
I found so many answers in this one article.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/151758
A skill I thin all
Did anyone else hear Ricky Riccardo (sp?) in their head when they read that?
Here’s the link. You can go and read it – all of it – for yourself. Cripes, folks, a lie of ommission, where relevant and meaning-changing information is left out – is still a lie.
Your claim to a “lie of omission” might hold water if the material you quote in any way changed the overall meaning of the story, or of what Ms. Baker said. It didn’t. The passage in question merely reinforced the notion that specific books were not discussed. This was not a controversial idea, until this article was published. Mr. Stuart disputed that. At any rate it’s hardly the most salient point.
Indeed, reading the whole article just enhances the creepy sense that Ms. Baker would rather not talk about it, particular when you read “I don’t recall” in combination with “I am unable to dispute or substantiate the information Paul Stuart provided to you.” Taken most generously, that means simply that she does not remember it– despite such statements being published in the Frontiersman (think that’s false? Take it up with ABC).
Your careless attempt to smear me as mispresenting the story has been noted, and is regarded with the disrespectful amusement it deserves, as does your careless assessment that the story is “100% false.”
Jose Jimenez (sic)? (Bill Dana’s alter ego)
Sorry- wrong post.
BTW, Sol, thanks for playing along with my hypotheticals. I appreciated the interchange.
FWIW, in the first hypothetical, even as amended, I believe an argument can be made that the parent should be held civilly liable under the doctrine of strict liability in tort, based upon the inherently dangerous instrumentality represented by the firearm. As to the second, I don’t think that such a case could be made. In either event, Justice Cardozo isn’t around to ask, so I’ll never know. :-)
Ragey goes a weasling, uh huh
Ragey goes a weasling, uh huh
Ragey feigns to the left with an enhanced shuckins
Then feigns to right with lies a bucking
Ragey goes a weasling, uh huh
P.S. You are correct that I am not a “her” :)
Rage –
Nothing “careless” about it. It’s a blatant misrepresentation – i.e. a lie. And you can “note” to your heart’s content. I’ll continue to call ‘em as I see ‘em.
The “story” you continue to trot out there is that Palin attempted to ban books. Your own cite, as well as mine, says otherwise. Case closed. Done. Over. Game, set, match.
The “story” you continue to trot out there is that Palin attempted to ban books. Your own cite, as well as mine, says otherwise. Case closed. Done. Over. Game, set, match.
Then why did the Frontiersman contemporaneously report otherwise, including the bombshell that 3 specific books were involved? Did Paul Stuart misreport it or make it up? Unlike you, I don’t claim (and have never claimed) 100% certainty as to the facts. I certainly wouldn’t do so, as you are, when the facts are leaning the other way.
Keep pounding the table, counselor. I generously assumed you just shot from the hip (we all do that sometimes), rather than engaging in a deliberate, disengenous, baldfaced lie. Oh well.
Reasonable people can read the article for themselves, and reasonable people will not buy your ridiculous spin.
VT,
You are usually the voice of reason and put reality into my Libertarian Utopian ideas. So, no, thank you.
Rage
Posted September 11, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Then why did the Frontiersman contemporaneously report otherwise, including the bombshell that 3 specific books were involved? Did Paul Stuart misreport it or make it up? Unlike you, I don’t claim (and have never claimed) 100% certainty as to the facts.
PA: Counselor is arguing facts not in evidence.
Judge: Sustained, move along counselor or rephrase the question.
(plays Law and Order “doomp doomp” chime)
Read both articles, Rage. My “spin” is not the ridiculous one. It’s yours.
Read both articles, Rage. My “spin” is not the ridiculous one. It’s yours.
I read the Newsweek/factcheck article days ago. Try to keep up.
Then why did the Frontiersman contemporaneously report otherwise, including the bombshell that 3 specific books were involved?
Actually, Mr. Taylor stated that the librarian told him that later. It was not in the newspaper.
. . that is, the 3 book claim, not the rest.
Just read the damn article, folks.
From factcheck.org via Newsweek:
She (Palin) did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin’s first term.
See
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/1
For other Palin rumors crushed.
Just read the damn article[s], folks.
On that, I will agree with Rage. Read for yourself; don’t rely on either one of us. We may simply have to agree to disagree.
And that’s OK. We don’t do enough of that here. I’ve tussled with Rage before, and despite what is exchanged, and despite the fact we’ve never met, I can respect him. His positions are generally thoughtful, and reasonable, and supported, even when I disagree with him.
It’s not personal, folks; at least it doesn’t have to be.
We did the banned book list the other day, posted incorrectly by me. I realized it and stated my error.
I think we can just put an end to this by saying that there are those who will exonerate Sarah Palin in this particular incident, while others will see the danger of even asking if the librarian would agree to ban books and then fire or threaten to fire her for “other reasons”, which aren’t really that much better.
It seems suspicious to me that a mayor and a librarian would have interaction outside one assisting the other in finding / checking out library material. There definitely is smoke…
From your story, I would be very interested to know which was first born – the easy one or the ‘hard case’.
First born was the easy one. And, no, these aren’t my children. :)
I have 4 girls, now all grown, so I completely agree that there must be different ways of reaching each and disciplining each. With my oldest, giving an example from my own experience worked the best. I usually did it “in passing”, but she got the point after giving it some thought. Often those examples were of my own mistakes or, yes, failures. Next to the oldest learned from her mistakes. :) Next to the youngest wore her heart on her sleeve, so a look was sometimes all it took. Youngest…? We just talk a lot, as all five of us do. None of them are perfect and they all made mistakes I wish they hadn’t. But they have become very responsible adults.
I have a funny (and disturbing) story about #3 daughter and “the law”. The Chief of Police (small town) at the time was shocked–shocked, I tell you!–that I didn’t rise up and immediately say she was innocent of the “crime”. I simply told him that if she did the deed–and it was possible she did, at the time I had no proof otherwise–I would make certain that she would adhere to whatever the court decided as punishment. As it turned out, she wasn’t involved, and he ended up apologizing to me, profusely. :)
Mary,
“Rather than seeing it as a “burden”, I see the schools having a wonderful opportunity to teach children not only about reproduction, but also about healthy relationships, partenting skills, and how to value and respect oneself.”
I couldn’t agree with you more on the value of education regarding sex and relationships, but kids respond better to example than words, so it’s also vital that their parents provide a genuine example of what a true relationship is. The underlying problem behind our children’s sexual behavior is that too many of them have never even seen a true committed loving relationship.
Our culture is in an extreme state of flux at the moment, for a great number of quite necessary reasons, that have made committed relationships harder than ever for the time being. We’re getting things worked out, but for the sake of our kids and culture, we need to work faster. We’ve defined fairly accurately what a relationship isn’t. We need to work out what a loving, equal relationship truely is, and provide working examples before we raise another generation of kids who don’t know what one is!
Pre, your friend would like the Newsweek article I linked above. So many potential answers and even “fixes.”
Linda,
Thanks for the Newsweek link. I’ll read it after I post this. In some cases, I’ve seen that there are genetic or physical problems that lead to “problem children”.
Oh, and as to your 1:43 post, we’re just suspicious people by nature. LOL
Wow, that was a great article, Linda! I’ll not only pass it on to others, but I’ll print it for myself.
This is uncanny:
It is the fussy baby who, read to night after dutiful night, is likely to develop a love of books; (fits my oldest to a T) the mellow baby, given the same literary diet, might just as easily grow into a teen who has no interest in reading anything longer than a text message. (And this my second oldest.)
The first loves reading, still, and devours anything and everything. We finally found an author the second will read and try to branch out from there. She read her first book cover-to-cover in high school. Even at 26, she’ll never really be a “reader”.
Pre,
None of them are perfect and they all made mistakes I wish they hadn’t.
But they needed to…
But they have become very responsible adults.
The best marker of a good parent.
(Just Sleazy)
Sol,
I won’t win Mother of the Year. LOL They still come to me for advice, so they trust me. Of course, that means I have to give the right advice, and that isn’t always easy, as you probably know.
Hey, we do our best, and that’s all that can be asked of us.
Pre,
Agreed. What I dread is when the time comes that my son asks for advice and the best advice is to not advise.
Mine grew up in spite of having me as Mom.
Mine grew up in spite of having me as Mom.
And bet s/he is grateful to have had you.
Stupid strike out didn’t work. supposed to have a strike through “in spite of”.
Sorry for the confusion.
Reggie.
“The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question…”
What you haven’t gotten that even a what-if question is beyond the pale in a free society, and a politician just asking that question is revealing an already existing totalitarian bent, and probably has no business with access any real power.
#
Jed
Posted September 11, 2008 at 2:48 pm | Permalink
Reggie.
“The librarian has said Palin asked a “What if?” question…”
What you haven’t gotten that even a what-if question is beyond the pale in a free society, and a politician just asking that question is revealing an already existing totalitarian bent, and probably has no business with access any real power.
===============================
What if a frog had wings?
Actually, the censorship issue is not the biggie.
The biggie is that this woman fires anyone who isn’t “loyal” to her.
What the hell is up with that? I never heard of small town librarians getting fired and re-hired or not every time a new mayor is elected.
This is typical right-wing abuse of power. “We can do it, so we shall do it.
“And woe unto ye who don’t kiss our asses . . . “
And speaking of right-wing power, I love the way Ms. Fiscally Frugal charged her state 60 bucks a day to eat meals at home simply because she could have charged them had she been living in Juneau instead of working out of nearby Anchorage.
Gee, I should stop paying my US income taxes because by law I wouldn’t have to pay if I were living in, say, Monterrey, Mexico.
I wonder how many people Obama fired, in his “career”?
Greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes
Hey, Aqualung
Good question, Max.
Probably none.
Who wouldn’t want to work for Obama? The man treats people fair.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 3:01 pm | Permalink
Greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes
Hey, Aqualung
================
Have your daughter call me, we can hook up.
Sitting on a park bench
Eyeing little girls with bad intent
Hey, Aqualung
dave2652
By the way I have yet to see a McCain ad touting what he
plans to do specifically to turn Washington around.
_____________________________________________
With all the one side left wing anti American liberal media push obama the muslim exactly what is it that he is for besides –
increasing taxes
reparations for blacks
reducing our miltary
pushing the homosexual agenda
littlejohn
In my opinion, it is not the schools responsibility to teach sex ed. Nor is it my opinion that such teaching is effective, but I really don;t have any objection other than it takes away from teaching other material.
_____________________________________________
If they don’t teach sex ed to little kids how are they going to teach them that homosexuality is normal -in direct contrast to the Bible which say’s that it is an abomination?
CapnAmerica
The biggie is that this woman fires anyone who isn’t “loyal” to her.
_____________________________________________
This happens all the time. Where have you been? If I was elected I would fire every person who was in favor of baby killing.
_____________________________________________
I never heard of small town librarians getting fired and re-hired or not every time a new mayor is elected.
______________________________________________
Why should she keep a librarians who try to push pornography on little kids just because they do it in Seattle?
Just more reasons why we are crazy about her.
Palin for President
Wow. A new Time Magazine article, blatantly false.
Who are these people? Is the MSM NOTING but editorialists these days? No wonder the print media is going down like…well, a onetime intern on a former President.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1840388,00.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7492231
How about a topic on other Palin rumors rebuked Randy?
Didn’t think so.
“How about a topic on other Palin rumors rebuked Randy?”
Well, there aren’t any.
“obama the muslim exactly what is it that he is for besides –
pushing the homosexual agenda”
What a joke kandisue. First, Obama ain’t Muslim and you know that. Second, if he WERE Muslim he would be like you – a believer in the tenents of Leviticus.
BlueJay
Posted September 11, 2008 at 4:48 pm | Permalink
“How about a topic on other Palin rumors rebuked Randy?”
Well, there aren’t any.
—————————————————-
Time does not permit right now to present a list.
This however is a good start:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/1
That’s not a good start, that’s all there is. Everyone knows it.
What else do you have?
A bridge to nowhere story with a spin you can pin on every politician in office?
Kandisue,
Are you gay?
Mr_Kia posted September 11, 2008 at 5:04 pm
“A bridge to nowhere story with a spin you can pin on every politician in office?”
———–
So “every politician in office” told the U.S. Congress “no thanks” to an earmark that Congress had ALREADY killed about a year BEFORE that politician was in office?
Examples please.
And explain WHY a politician would say “no thanks” to an earmark that no longer existed.
‘PALIN’S PROBLEMS WITH THE TRUTH! Palin pretty much lied about that bridge – and about that tax rebate:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh090208.shtml
“Mr_Kia” waffles –
“Time does not permit….”
But “Mr_Kia” had time respond to other posts.
Seriously.
It’s becoming impossible to take you CONs…, well, seriously.
McCoot’s campaign manager is on the record as saying his candidate doesn’t have a chance if the election is about the issues.
I’m a liberal and tend to be understanding toward people I disagree with. Certainly, I think, there must be some rational thought buried beneath all their parroted rhetoric. Somehow the CONs on this forum have somehow come to believe their slime and slander and ignorance has some basis in some understandable concept of reality.
But you guys seem to work overtime trying to prove me wrong.
Start getting used to Barack Obama’s new identity: Mister President.
And prepare yourself for the Moose-Dresser’s upcoming sobriquet: Prisoner #928-628.
A typical Monkeyhawk post.
Inexplicable arrogance, a few insults, ignorant statements, vile name calling, some whistling past the graveyard. Oh, and a bunch of BS.
You only missed on the usual vile name calling this time.
That’s why we love you Monkey. We don’t take you seriously, but we love your predictability.
There is no excuse for McSame’s ads lying about any candidate, let alone one running for President. From the bridge to nowhere to the teaching K schoolers about sex.
In the first place, this country has a history of teen sex and pregnancies. Look at other modern countries. They teach about sex at an early age, and their numbers are far lower than ours concerning early sex. Think we could learn something from them?
Probably not.
The Christian right is so afraid of sex, that teaching quality, early sex education would appall them. That’s too bad, as it only makes it more mysterious to teens with raging hormones.
I have no problem starting sex education with K through 12, starting with basic knowledge and progressing through serious discussions of the dangers of sex at a too early age. Kids just out of, or still in, high school getting pregnant? Their life is basically over. Hello welfare mom.
Obama is right on this. He even clarified that K school would not get sexually explicit material, and the parents could opt out with no repercussions.
McSame is trying to generate pure BS in the hopes the average person will believe it. My only hope is the average person is too smart for that. But from the crap posted by so-called Christians on this blog, I have my doubts.
McClatchy donates money to the homosexual community and we should believe this liberal with the leftest agenda because?
“outlander” tries –
“…we love your predictability.”
Yeah?
So predict what my next post will say.
Right here. Right now.
KandiSue–
You really need to get laid.
Believe me, you’d be a lot more fun then.
And with a name like a hooker to boot . . .
This ad is already starting to backfire.
Nobody except Aqualung and Kandisue are stupid enough to believe that Obama would give “comprehensive sex ed” to five year old kids.
People like them are beyond reasoning with anyway . . .
With McCain’s deceitful slime ad attacking Obama for supporting a bill that educates children about sexual predators does that mean McCain advocates child rape? Sounds like it since McCain is essentially saying he’d oppose such education and make children more vulnerable to sexual predators.
Or maybe he’s just going after the pervert vote. Oh wait, he is a Republican. I suppose he’s taking his love for the younger ladies a bit too far.
Senator John McRape in 2008. Nice slogan.
Here is the advertising in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVLQhRiEXZs
I suggest you folks actually READ SB 99 before you say that McCain is wrong on this.
Before listening to the serial liar Paul the NYT did an excellent article presenting the actual facts, not the typical RepubliCON distortions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/us/politics/11checkpoint.html?bl&ex=1221278400&en=139555dd265b8c71&ei=5087
How can you tell when a Republican is lying, his/her lips are moving.
A Federal Judge, appointed by Jimmy Carter, no less, just stopped a Washington DC elementary school “sex ed” program that he thought was way out of line.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155867,00.html
The Eagle editorial board, clueless wonders!
““deliberately misleading.””
Please.
NBC Nightly News two nights ago.
Brian Williams opens with an attack on the republican vice candidate. Completely portraying her as a negative – and a liar.
They only covered three things:
1) Bridge to nowhere. Negative, she was for it before she was against it. BIG NEGATIVE. But she did NOT LIE. In the end she did the RIGHT THING, without any political motive for doing so. No positive presentation. Only the negative as if she lied.
2) GOVENORS JET. Yes she put it on EBAY. They make her out to be a LIAR, or less than honest just because it did not SELL on EBAY. Then, they go on to say how it was sold at a loss. Again, has NOTHING to do with her putting the jet on EBAY, but PAINTS HER IN A NEGATIVE LIGHT.
3) FIRES THE GOV MANSION COOK. Completely true, but NBC again paints it negative because the cook was later hired by the Alaska legislature. So although SHE SPOKE THE TRUTH – the television news decided to paint it black, and make her look less than honest.
That’s it! She’s been on the ticket one week and we have gone completely NEGATIVE. Not one positive to offer a balanced report. Zip.
Stop crying about McClame fighting back – when the media like the “Ministry of Peace” in the Orwell novel 1984.
Can’t you libs see with your eyes, hear with your ears, that you are being manipulated? That the truth is being twisted?
More proof? Still waiting for the completely negative opening NBC News lead on Biden……
I know Obama hates to fight.
But this one is TOO easy to pass up.
Rumor at least is that he has given the 527’s leave to go after McCain Palin. I hope so.
This vile lie of an ad DEMANDS a response taking it apart point by point and then asking viewers to call John McCain and ask that he apologize.
I think I’ll find McCain’s website and if it has an email link, I will do just that.
Paul, are you claiming Obama dictated standards for schools in Washington D.C.? Then again, you’ve lost touch with reality a long time ago so you probably do.
Obama says that:
“Teaching sex education to kindergartners is the RIGHT THING TO DO!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pO1dIKgfPw
Yes Paul, telling children what to do when faced with sexual predators is a good thing. It’s a shame you think children should be made to be easier victims. You are a sick individual.
Children do not need to be “taught about sexual predators”
They need to be protected from the predators from the left, that want to push sex ed on them.
Self defense should be taught, of course.
But Sex Ed and Self Defense are two different things.
Obama DID want “comprehensive sex ed” in kindergarten.
Obama says so, in his own words.
I also point out that Obama MOCKS Alan Keyes voice, in the elite, snobbish way that only a liberal like Obama can:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pO1dIKgfPw
#
CapnAmerica
Posted September 11, 2008 at 7:06 pm | Permalink
KandiSue–
You really need to get laid.
Believe me, you’d be a lot more fun then.
======================================================
I’m afraid bestiality is against the law.
Maggot
It has been many years since the New York Times has written an “excellent article” about anything at all!
The NYT is a leftist rag that will be out of business in my lifetime, I am sure.
Being removed as it is from the continental US and having a population of only about 600,000, it may be that what happens in Alaska STAYS mostly in Alaska.
The story of book bannin’ Sarah continues to evolve and be better understood. Hopefully the investigators on the ground in Alaska will be able to better flesh this out.
This is the latest find from the Washington monthly. It is dated today.
“PALIN’S BOOK-BANNING EFFORTS, REDUX…. Here’s what we know about Sarah Palin’s interest in banning books. Time reported last week that Palin asked the Wasilla librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, about the process for banning library books. Baker was reportedly “aghast” at the question. Soon after taking office, Palin, according to a New York Times report, fired Baker, and news reports from the time indicate that Palin thought Baker hadn’t done enough to give her “full support” to the mayor.
Palin reversed course on Baker’s dismissal after a local outcry, and later said the discussions about banning books were “rhetorical.”
Yesterday, ABC News’ Brian Ross moved the ball forward a bit, with an interesting report.
Ross emphasized an angle I previously hadn’t heard much about. Palin was elected mayor thanks in large part to the strong backing of her church, the Wasilla Assembly of God, which, right around the time Palin took office, “began to focus on certain books available in local stores and in the town library, including one called ‘Go Ask Alice,’ and another one written by a local pastor, Howard Bess, called ‘Pastor, I am Gay.’”
Palin became mayor, her church was interested in censorship, and soon after, Palin asked a “rhetorical” question about how books might be excluded from the public library. When the librarian resisted, she was, at least initially, fired.
The line from the McCain campaign has been that Palin never had any interest whatsoever in banning library books. That seems increasingly difficult to believe.
JMWalker
In the first place, this country has a history of teen sex and pregnancies. Look at other modern countries. They teach about sex at an early age, and their numbers are far lower than ours concerning early sex. Think we could learn something from them?
The Christian right is so afraid of sex, that teaching quality, early sex education would appall them. That’s too bad, as it only makes it more mysterious to teens with raging hormones.
Is there anything that you liberals will not question?
Come on 50 years ago we did not have sex ed and yet the out of wedlock was much much lower than now. And that was way before the liberals started killing babies by the millions not to mention very limited birth control.
70% of all black children are born out of wedlock.
Sex ed is not the answer it is just a homosexual
Maggot
Use your brain.
Planned Parenthood is a NATIONAL lobby group, and pushes its agenda everywhere.
The point of the Federal Judge, appointed by Jimmy Carter, STRIKING DOWN a sex ed program was to show that these programs OFTEN go way too far.
Maggot
“Comprehensive Sex Ed” has NOTHING to do with warning kids about sexual predators.
This is just smoke put out by the lying Obama campaign.
Wow, Paul thinks it’s better for a child to be raped than get educated on how to protect yourself from sex predators. There you have the mind of a Republican, disgusting to the core. Never did I think I’d hear someone actually advocating child rape. Way to go Paul, you have managed to sink to a lower level.
BJ
You are a liar.
I am sure you believe that bogus list of “books that Palin banned” don’t you?
Some of those books, like Harry Potter, had not even gone into print at the time that Palin had her conversations with the librarian.
You got nothing, as usual.
And, as usual, you are shameless. Your accusations are proven false, time and time again, and you still bring them up.
The bill Obama voted on in committee was also endorsed by the PTA. What sort of agenda does the PTA have? Sarah Palin was on the PTA, I suppose you think she’s part of some conspiracy too.
Yeah, protecting children against sex predators, what an awful thing, if you are a sex predator.
Ok the “Pastor, I’m Gay” is pretty self evident and consistent along the lines of a book someone like Palin might ban. From the title anyway. I’ll have to see what is so awful about IT that had Sarah Palin asking about banning books.
But from what I can find on “Go Ask Alice”?
WHY would anyone want this book banned?
“Go Ask Alice is a controversial 1971 book about drug abuse that is considered a classic of American young adult literature. The book purports to be the actual diary of an anonymous teenage girl who died of a drug overdose in the late 1960s and is therefore presented as a testimony against drug use. Alice is not the protagonist’s name; the diarist’s name is never given in the book. A woman named Alice is mentioned briefly in one entry; she is a fellow addict the diarist meets on the street. Despite this, reviewers generally refer to the diarist as “Alice” for the sake of convenience.”
Maggot
You idiot.
There is absolutely no way that a kindergartener needs to even know that there are such things as “sexual predators” —
They should be told not to allow inappropriate touching, but you do NOT have to tell kindergartners about rape, incest and graphic sex.
This is crap.
Sexual predator education is NOT what Obama had in mind.
This law never passed, by the way, even in a liberal state like Illinois.
The grade level was lowered, from 6th grade to Kindergarten, in the proposed bill. Obama voted in favor of that change.
Looks like he should have voted “present” like he usually does!
“get educated on how to protect yourself from sex predators”
Just how do you do that Maggotpunk?
What was wrong with teaching:
DO not talk to strangers
Do not get in a car with strangers
Scream walk or run away
How many billions does it take to teach that?
Or maybe there is a secret handshake for this group of sexual deviates too.
BJ
Again, you are full of crap.
Palin NEVER asked for any book to be banned.
No books WERE banned.
There was NO “public outcry” about book banning because:
NO BOOKS WERE EVER BANNED!
Wrongo Franklinpaulie.
I have been fair and have not jumped on the “list of books” in my posts.
I am MORE troubled that there is NOT a list.
It seems as if Sarah Palin wanted literary control of what the residents of Wasilla had available to read. Why else does she ask the librarian if she has a problem removing books from the library in the future “should it become necessary”?
By the way? My cut n paste above is from Washington monthly. Hardly a nest of liberals.
Again, Obama making fun of Alan Keyes, in a speech to Planned Parenthood, saying that teaching Sex Ed to kindergartners is “THE RIGHT THING TO DO”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pO1dIKgfPw
Parsing will not help you or Sarah Palin there Franklinpaulie.
No, no books were banned. But Sarah Palin DID ask about banning books and fired the librarian when she resisted the idea. It would seem this spunky librarian and cooler heads in the community blunted this particular little power grab on Palin’s part.
Paul you are a complete idiot.
“They should be told not to allow inappropriate touching, but you do NOT have to tell kindergartners about rape, incest and graphic sex.”
What do you think they were teaching under the bill Obama voted for? It teaches that exact thing. It teaches such “horrid” concepts that if you are touched inappropriately to go tell someone like a police officer, a parent, etc.
You just don’t know what you are talking about (as usual) and you make yourself look like a bigger moron than you already are. Your stupidity knows no bounds. Do you just parrot whatever talking points you are handing without even researching to see if they are right? Clearly, you can’t think for yourself and your consistent displays of stupidity are proof of that.
“Steve Gilbert at the Sweetness&Light.com blog has found the original text here of the legislation. It was Illinois General Assembly Senate bill 0099, An Act Concerning Education. What this copy actually shows is that the bill was specifically changed to include kindergarten. Originally the bill was just grades six through 12. In this copy the number six is crossed out and the capital K representing kindergarten is in place of it. So it actually reads: “Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV.” It originally said AIDS, AIDS is crossed out, and it says HIV. So the crossed-out language was dropped from the bill, the underlined words were added in the bill, and it was originally not to include kindergarten. It was specifically changed to include kindergarteners in comprehensive sex education, and Obama did vote for it. END TRANSCRIPT”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2079415/posts
BJ
Sarah Palin fired ALL of her department heads, as is rather common, when she took office.
She then hired the Librarian, and other department heads, back.
Maggot
The legislature, in Illinois, DISAGREED with Obama.
The legislature did not WANT what Obama wanted, and the bill Obama pushed for LOST for lack of votes.
AND she asked the librarian, more than once, if she had a problem removing books from the library.
Keep trying Franklin. You are ALMOST caught up!
There is no denying that the McCain ad is COMPLETELY ACCURATE:
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-voted-for-sex-ed-for-kindergartners
Oh gosh….I just hate to read stuff like this, he he he!!!
Democrats on Capitol Hill fear Obama fallout
By Andrew Ward in Washington
Published: September 11 2008 23:30 | Last updated: September 11 2008 23:30
Democratic jitters about the US presidential race have spread to Capitol Hill, where some members of Congress are worried that Barack Obama’s faltering campaign could hurt their chances of re-election.
Party leaders have been hoping to strengthen Democratic control of the House and Senate in November, but John McCain’s jump in the polls has stoked fears of a Republican resurgence.
A Democratic fundraiser for Congressional candidates said some planned to distance themselves from Mr Obama and not attack Mr McCain.
“If people are voting for McCain it could help Republicans all the way down the ticket, even in a year when the Democrats should be sweeping all before us,” said the fundraiser, a former Hillary Clinton supporter.
“There is a growing sense of doom among Democrats I have spoken to?.?.?.?People are going crazy, telling the campaign ‘you’ve got to do something’.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c2f69ce-8031-11dd-99a9-000077b07658.html
How many dept. heads or librarians did brewer fire when he took office?
Full Text of SB0099
093_SB0099 LRB093 05269 NHT 05359 b
AN ACT concerning education.
Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois, represented in the General Assembly:
Section 5. The School Code is amended by changing Sections 27-9.1 and 27-9.2 as follows:
(105 ILCS 5/27-9.1) (from Ch. 122, par. 27-9.1) Sec. 27-9.1. Sex Education.
(a) No pupil shall be required to take or participate in any class or course in comprehensive sex education if the pupil’s his parent or guardian submits written objection thereto, and refusal to take or participate in such course or program shall not be reason for suspension or expulsion of such pupil. Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology. (b) All public elementary, junior high, and senior high school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual activity or behavior intercourse shall emphasize that abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended is the expected norm in that abstinence from sexual intercourse is the only protection that is 100% effective against unwanted teenage pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and HIV acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) when transmitted sexually.
(Click to enlarge)
Note that the crossed out language was dropped from the bill and the underlined words were added.
So this bill specifically amended the school code to change sex education from including sixth grade through twelfth grade — to including kindergartners.
The other emendations are pretty telling, too.
For instance:
(Click to enlarge)
So, no, Mr. Obama has no grounds for complaint.
Though we sure do.
—–
Note to WeBloggers
The amendment process is hard to follow, in my cut and paste, so go to the link, above.
Obama voted to change the grades 6 through 12 to Grades K through 12!
Obama tried to get a radio program shut down.
Obama has also threatened legal charges (for what?) against journalists for investigating him!
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/obama_campaign_confronts_wgn_r.html
FIRST Matt Damon, now Pamela Anderson has spoken out against Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin saying:”I can’t stand her. She can suck it!”
Another couple typical nitwit DimLib Obama supporters, smellier than a week old athletic supporter.
Why does anybody bother to report what these lunatics think or say.
Took my aspirin, I’m back.
BlueJay sings for Boxlock….
When you wish upon a star….
As soon as the public better knows Sarah Palin she will tank the McCain campaign.
And we get to know her a little better every day!
American_Way posted September 11, 2008 at 7:31 pm
“1) Bridge to nowhere. Negative, she was for it before she was against it. BIG NEGATIVE. But she did NOT LIE.”
———
Palin claimed she told Congress “no thanks” to the earmark — BUT Congress had ALREADY killed the controversial earmark 13 months BEFORE Palin became governor.
‘PALIN’S PROBLEMS WITH THE TRUTH! Palin pretty much lied about that bridge – and about that tax rebate:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh090208.shtml
Obama said that the Kennedy family trust is the reason he was born.
It was later proven that Obama’s father came to America PRIOR to the Kennedy family being involved in any airlifts of Kenyan students.
Obama said he recalls an Ebony magazine article about a man who disfigured himself, trying to “look White” — Ebony says that no such article has ever been printed by Ebony. No other magazine, of that day, can find such an article, either.
Hmmmmm Can’t find much of anything on “Pastor, I’m Gay”.
But given that Sarah Palin thinks “Gay” can be prayed away?
I don’t understand her issue with it. Unless of course the book did NOT postulate some senseless crap that “Gay can be prayed away.
“a Washington DC elementary school “sex ed” program that he thought was way out of line.”
So, according to Chicago expert Paul Illinois law applies in DC.
#
Franklin
Posted September 11, 2008 at 8:15 pm | Permalink
Maggot
The legislature, in Illinois, DISAGREED with Obama.
The legislature did not WANT what Obama wanted, and the bill Obama pushed for LOST for lack of votes.
=================================================
Wangoidiot, I suppose you like the idea we have one of the highest early teen sexual experimenting in the world. I suppose you like the idea so many children are born into this world by teens still in high school. I suppose you like the idea those same mothers will likely end up on welfare, and pass the same legend onto their offspring. I suppose you like that there has been an upswing in sexually transmitted diseases at the teen level.
I suppose you like that the American Puritanical ethic, perpetrated on the public school system by people too afraid of the word sex to teach their own children about both the joy AND dangers of sex, freaks out whenever schools attempt to teach what the parents are FAILING to teach their own children.
You’re damn right sex should be taught to children, starting with what sex is at the K level, up to how to handle the hormones raging inside teens; avoiding HIV, and all venereal diseases; handling rape-avoiding rape in the upper grades.
You want to hide in a closet, looking at porn mags. That’s your idea of sex education, and we got a bunch of pregnant teens to show for it. You’re a freakin’ idiot.
#
Franklin
Posted September 11, 2008 at 8:37 pm | Permalink
Obama said that the Kennedy family trust is the reason he was born.
It was later proven that Obama’s father came to America PRIOR to the Kennedy family being involved in any airlifts of Kenyan students.
Obama said he recalls an Ebony magazine article about a man who disfigured himself, trying to “look White” — Ebony says that no such article has ever been printed by Ebony. No other magazine, of that day, can find such an article, either.
======================================================
Another “E-MAIL”, Wangoidiot?
The Alaska Democrat Party took down this page, because it made Palin look “too good” perhaps?
—
”
The Gravina Island Bridge initially received $223 million in 2005 via earmarks by Alaska Senators Ted Stevens and Lisa Murkowski. The bridge would have connected Ketchikan, Alaska with its local airport on nearby Gravina Island (population 50). Congress stripped the earmark after a national uproar about it but appropriated the money anyway for unspecified transportation uses. Former Gov. Frank Murkowski’s administration set aside about $113 million of the appropriation for the Ketchikan bridge. However, Gov. Sarah Palin said the $398 million bridge was $329 million short of full funding, and only $36 million in federal funds were set aside for it. She said it was clear Congress had little interest in spending any more money for it and that the state had higher priorities.
On Oct. 20, 2005, Ted threatened to resign from the Senate if lawmakers took away money allocated for the Gravina Island Bridge and the Knik Arm Bridge and redirected it to Hurricane Katrina repairs in Louisiana. The attempt to redirect the bridge money was defeated, but Congress later removed the earmarks after intense public criticism.”
—–
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:szpJxaSZwiMJ:www.retireted.com/real-estate/gravina-bridge/ted-earmarked-funds-for-bridge-that-goes-nowhere/+
“Age appropriate instruction” You laughable goofs!
“Age appropriate instruction” for six year olds would not be in any way “explicit”.
Everybody’s heard the story about the boy who cried “wolf.” That is a classic example of the McSame campaign: crying wolf every time a new e-mail crawls through the slime into the paws of idiots. Pretty soon, no one will hear a thing, even if any of it’s true, which so far is as far from the truth as Wangoboy is from a stained red dress.
Note:
I also found another reference, on the HOME PAGE of the Alaska Democrat Party, mentioning Palin “killing” the bridge.
The Dems in Arkansas took that page down, as well, and I am looking for it.
I am sure someone “captured” that one, as well.
BlueJay
Posted September 11, 2008 at 8:32 pm | Permalink
BlueJay sings for Boxlock….
When you wish upon a star….
As soon as the public better knows Sarah Palin she will tank the McCain campaign.
And we get to know her a little better every day!
————————————————–
Yep sounds like a fairy tale. Well sung.
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
David
If it is not “explicit” then it is not “sex education” is it?
You can teach children to avoid strangers, without talking about sex.
You can teach children not to get into the cars of strangers, and not to be alone with people they don’t know, without talking about sex.
There is NO SUCH THING as “age appropriate sex education” for kindergartners.
Also, no such DISTINTION was made, in the bill that Obama wanted:
“Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology.”
—-
Again, the amendment that Obama supported would have replaced the 6 with the K!
no such distinction was made in the bill Obama voted for.
Bj,Cap,n and those on the otherside,thank you so much for my daily dose of humor. Yes it just cracks me up that you people on both sides think your name calling,”fact”finding and personal attacks are actually going to change anything. You don’y really belive you are changing any one’s mind do you. Once again thanks for the laughs. Just remember, we are changing Madams in the whorehouse,nothing more,nothing less.
econ posted September 11, 2008 at 8:45 pm
“The Alaska Democrat Party took down this page, because it made Palin look “too good” perhaps?
—
Congress stripped the earmark [13 months BEFORE Palin took office] after a national uproar about it but appropriated the money anyway for unspecified transportation uses.”
———
Tell us econ. . . HOW did Palin tell Congress “no thanks” to an earmark that did NOT exist?
Yes, she succumbed to the media attention on the bridge, and the fact it wasn’t going to get full funding. Good for her. But she didn’t kill half a snake.
The money was still available, at least a small part of it, according to the Alaska Democrats!
“Congress stripped the earmark after a national uproar about it but appropriated the money anyway for unspecified transportation uses. Former Gov. Frank Murkowski’s administration set aside about $113 million of the appropriation for the Ketchikan bridge. However, Gov. Sarah Palin said the $398 million bridge was $329 million short of full funding, and only $36 million in federal funds were set aside for it. She said it was clear Congress had little interest in spending any more money for it and that the state had higher priorities.”
The above, and other POSITIVE statements about Palin, have since been deleted from the Alaska Democrat’s official website.
The Dems will probably take this down, soon, but try it:
Gov. Palin recently cancelled the Gravina Island Bridge near Ketchikan that would have connected the Alaska mainland with Gravina Island (population: 50). The other bridge, named Don Young’s Way and also known as the Knik Arm Bridge, is a proposed two-mile span that would cross Cook Inlet’s Knik Arm and connect Anchorage with undeveloped land in the Mat-Su Borough. Ted’s current chief of staff and former top aides are among those who own land that would benefit from construction of the bridge.”
http://www.retireted.com/teds-connections/earmarks/
Here is a website keeping track of some of the Alaska Democrat Party’s web page changes, as of late:
http://senateconservatives.com/2008/09/08/alaska-democrats-pull-web-page-crediting-palin-for-killing-bridge-to-nowhere/
econ. . . HOW did Palin tell Congress “no thanks” to an earmark that did NOT exist?
‘THE LIE TO SOMEWHERE! Sarah Palin “told Congress” nothing. Today, she tells voters a lie:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh090108.shtml
#
Freebird1971
Posted September 11, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Permalink
Bj,Cap,n and those on the otherside,thank you so much for my daily dose of humor. Yes it just cracks me up that you people on both sides think your name calling,”fact”finding and personal attacks are actually going to change anything. You don’y really belive you are changing any one’s mind do you. Once again thanks for the laughs. Just remember, we are changing Madams in the whorehouse,nothing more,nothing less.
———————
Now Freebird1971, there you go letting the air out of those balloons again. There are folks here who think they change the world, right there from their keyboard.
Pssst Freebird,… good job.
cosmos
There was still an appropriation available, from Federal Funds, and it was not enough to build the entire bridge.
The Alaska Democrats credit Palin with KILLIN the project.
BlueJay
“Ok the “Pastor, I’m Gay” is pretty self evident and consistent along the lines of a book someone like Palin might ban. From the title anyway. I’ll have to see what is so awful about IT that had Sarah Palin asking about banning books.”
_______________________________________________
Ok at first glance I agree with Palin this is not the kind of stuff that should be in a public library but since you seem to have a problem with it please for my edification explain how it helped you come out of the gay lifestyle.
Thanks
Hey Freebird?
Know what I’m doing?
I just cracked an ice cold beer.
MMMMmmmmm I just had a sip. It is SOOOO good.
Hey Franklin? EVERYONE knows Palin was for the bridge before she was against it.
econ,
She killed the project.
But Palin did NOT (and could NOT) tell Congress “no thanks”, because Congress had ALREADY killed that earmark 13 months BEFORE she took office.
You cannot say “no thanks” to an offer that does NOT exist.
“Ok at first glance I agree with Palin this is not the kind of stuff that should be in a public library ”
Have you READ the book Kandisue? Do you even know what it is about beyond the title?
Kandisue I take great pleasure in reminding you that you are a far…fringe….kook.
If Palin tried to do HALF of what you would like her to do?
BlueJay sings….
Ya say ya want a revolution?
PLAINTIFF BERG FILES MOTION for EXPEDITED DISCOVERY and the DEPOSITION of BARACK OBAMA and HOWARD DEAN
Press release and motion attached below
(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 09/10/08) – Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s eligibility to serve as President of the United States, filed a Motion for Extensive and Expedited Discovery including the Depositions of Barack Obama and Howard Dean, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee [DNC] with a Special Master in the case of Berg vs. Obama, Civil Action No. 08-cv-4083, on 09/09/08. Berg stressed to the Court the urgency of this case as, we the people, are heading to a “Constitutional Crisis” if this case is not resolved forthwith.
cosmos
YES YOU CAN!
Earmarks are Earmarks.
At any time, Stevens or anyone else in Congress could have put the FULL earmark, BACK IN!
Hard to do if the Governor has killed the entire project.
Hard to do if the Governor says that the State will not contribute to the plan.
There WERE funds available. Palin could have “rolled the dice” or taken a gamble, put the State of Alaska on the hook for the project, and then Palin could have encouraged the Alaska delegation to DC to keep pushing for MORE funding.
Palin did not do that.
Palin killed the project.
Oh, sorry WE Blog. Did I just post a story that you have been ordered to ignore, kinda like the Edwards Love Child thing last month?
Darn Internet. Too much free press for the MSM.
#
Kandisue
Posted September 11, 2008 at 9:29 pm | Permalink
BlueJay
“Ok the “Pastor, I’m Gay” is pretty self evident and consistent along the lines of a book someone like Palin might ban. From the title anyway. I’ll have to see what is so awful about IT that had Sarah Palin asking about banning books.”
_______________________________________________
Ok at first glance I agree with Palin this is not the kind of stuff that should be in a public library but since you seem to have a problem with it please for my edification explain how it helped you come out of the gay lifestyle.
Thanks
======================================================
“Christian” Kandibrain being Christian again. God’s got a special place for “Christians”, such as yourself. It’s called hypocrite hell. Feel the burn, and put on some lipstick: pigs look good in lipstick and BBQ sauce.
BJ
“But if you go round carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow!”
All those who are not risking their career in journalism (kiss lower screams the publisher) can follow a suppressed story at this website: http://www.obamacrimes.com/
BJ,
Thanks again for some more laughs,it would take someone MUCH smarter than you to threaten my sobriety. Again keep those laughs coming
Serenity, BJ, Serenity.
You can’t fix Jerks.
#
bjb
Posted September 11, 2008 at 9:38 pm | Permalink
PLAINTIFF BERG FILES MOTION for EXPEDITED DISCOVERY and the DEPOSITION of BARACK OBAMA and HOWARD DEAN
Press release and motion attached below
(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 09/10/08) – Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s eligibility to serve as President of the United States, filed a Motion for Extensive and Expedited Discovery including the Depositions of Barack Obama and Howard Dean, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee [DNC] with a Special Master in the case of Berg vs. Obama, Civil Action No. 08-cv-4083, on 09/09/08. Berg stressed to the Court the urgency of this case as, we the people, are heading to a “Constitutional Crisis” if this case is not resolved forthwith.
========================================================
Yo, dufus, you mean this Philip J. Berg?
Philip J. Berg, Esquire stated in a letter to the nations throughout the world:
“It is time for the nations of the world to come forth and take the leadership because of the failure of the United States Government and the States where crimes were committed on 09/11/01, where no thorough investigation and indictments occurred, to investigate, arrest and prosecute the people responsible for the murders on 9/11/01, specifically including George W. Bush and Richard Cheney.”
(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 01/04/07) – Philip J. Berg, Esquire, [Berg is a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA, who prior hereto has filed a RICO lawsuit against Bush and others for the events of 9/11 and plans to re-file shortly] announced today that he was issuing a call for world leaders to arrest and try Bush and Cheney for the global crimes of 9/11/01.
=====================================================
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Should have been,
Serenity Freebird, Serenity
You can’t fix jerks.
However, I am sure BJ won’t know what I am talking about, anyway.
LOL
He doesn’t bother me,I just consider the source,actually I feel quite sorry feel sorry that he has nothing other than this blog and actually believes his rants are going to make a difference.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/680/
Congress killed the language directing about half the bridge funding to be spent on the bridge, left that money in to be spent as alaska wanted. With no prospect for getting the other half (what they pay for it) it went for other things. Then hardly any money in the fund, the state killed it.
That’s not thanks, but no thanks.
JM I’ve the feeling Kandi doesn’t look good in anything.
BlueJay doing the only thing he does best – name calling.
“McCain is clearly ready to say anything to win.”
ditto
Obama is clearly ready to say aynthing to win.
American_Way
Posted September 11, 2008 at 10:06 pm | Permalink
BlueJay doing the only thing he does best – name calling.
============================================================
What else can he do?
Ha, I love it…they are going exactly where we want them to go. In desperation they will soon really start to self-destruct in front of the American voter.
Obama plans sharper tone as party frets
By Adam Nagourney and Jeff Zeleny
Published: September 12, 2008
“Senator Barack Obama will intensify his assault against Senator John McCain, with new television advertisements and more forceful attacks by the candidate and surrogates beginning Friday morning, as he confronts an invigorated Republican presidential ticket and increasing nervousness in the Democratic ranks.
McCain’s choice of Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska as his running mate and the resulting jolt of energy among Republican voters appear to have caught Obama and his advisers by surprise and added to concern among some Democrats that the Obama campaign was not pushing back hard enough against Republican attacks in a critical phase of the race.”
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/12/america/12obama.php
Interesting tidbit:
Judge warned Palin in 2005 to back off brother-in-law’s job
9/10/08
(CNN) — An Alaska judge warned Gov. Sarah Palin’s family against trying to get her then-brother-in-law fired, according to court records.
Investigators want to know if Sarah Palin tried to use her position improperly to get her former brother-in-law fired.
That warning came long before the controversy over her dismissal of the brother-in-law’s boss, the state’s public safety commissioner, records show.
Palin, the Republican nominee for vice president, is battling allegations she and her advisers pressured Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan to fire her sister’s husband, State Trooper Mike Wooten.
Palin’s sister, Molly McCann, and Wooten were in the process of getting a divorce when the judge hearing the couple’s case said McCann’s family appeared to be putting Wooten’s job at risk at a time when he would be required to pay child support.
“It appears for the world that Ms. McCann and her family have decided to take after the guy’s livelihood, that whatever who did what to whom has overridden good judgment,” Superior Court Judge John Suddock said during an October 2005 hearing. “Aesop told us not to slay the goose that lays the golden egg. For whatever reason, people are trying to slay the goose here, and it tends to diminish his earning capacity.”
At the time, Palin was a private citizen and would not become governor until 2006. In complaints filed with the state police, she and other relatives had accused Wooten of threatening her family during the divorce.
Suddock was in the process of settling the couple’s property and child-support arrangements in the 2005 hearing. The judge said his decision might have been different had Wooten’s continued employment with the state police been more certain.
“The plaintiff’s table has created a situation where that is a very fragile outcome,” he said.
Wooten’s union representative testified that the trooper was the subject of a “constant stream” of complaints from his ex-wife’s family. “If things don’t change, Mike’s career is in jeopardy,” the union rep said.
“My advice to Mike was to find another job,” said John Cyr, now executive director of the Public Safety Employees Association. “I think he needs, career-wise, to look for work elsewhere.”
CNN obtained audio recordings of the hearing from the court clerk’s office in Anchorage, Alaska. Roberta Erwin, the attorney who represented McCann, declined comment on the case Wednesday, and other representatives of the governor did not immediately return phone calls.
Wooten was suspended for five days in March 2006, after state police commanders determined he had used a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson “in a training capacity,” drove his patrol car while drinking beer and illegally shot a moose using his wife’s hunting permit.
In a February 2008 hearing over new custody issues, Wooten briefly complained that “disparagement” by his ex-wife’s family was continuing.
Complaints about Wooten from Palin and her family have been under scrutiny since Gov. Palin’s July firing of Monegan, whose duties included management of the state police force. After his dismissal, Monegan said he was fired because he refused to succumb to pressure from the governor’s office to fire Wooten, and his allegations have led to an investigation by the state Legislature.
Palin has denied any wrongdoing, saying the commissioner was removed because of disagreements over budget issues. Her attorneys have called Wooten a “rogue trooper” and said no one in the governor’s family knew of his suspension until after Monegan’s dismissal.
Spokesmen for Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign have said the legislative probe has become a “political circus” since McCain tapped Palin as his running mate in August.
Palin originally pledged to cooperate with the investigation and disclosed that members of her administration had contacted state police officials nearly two dozen times to discuss Wooten. But last week, she asked the state personnel board to conduct its own probe, and a string of witnesses has failed to show up at scheduled depositions with the investigator hired by the Legislature.
Last week, Cyr’s union filed its own complaint against Palin and top aides, accusing them of improperly attempting to use confidential information from Wooten’s personnel files against him. The McCain campaign says Wooten agreed to release his files during the divorce proceedings, and the information was in the public domain.
And I see Hank is here in his alter egos “Max” and “American way”
Not much out there on the book Palin’s church wanted to ban and that she herself may have banned had the librarian not stood up to her.
I did find a reader review of “Pastor, I’m Gay”
“A Baptist minister challenges Christian churches to re-examine their ideas and prejudices and to look at gays and lesbians as the human beings they are, as diverse a group as any others. He looks at the scriptures long used to justify the judgment and discrimination the churches use against these people, and then suggest ways in which the church and its members can begin to right some of the wrongs done in its name. This book should be read by all who call themselves Christians.”
Looks harmless enough to me.
BJ,
As much as I hate to admit it we both have something in common. I am addicted to alchohol and you are addiicted to pontificating on this blog. I’m doing something about my addiction what are you doing about yours. I don’t thnk youi could go 72 hours without blogging here(no nic switching)
JR go 72 hours without being on the WE Blog?
NO FRICKEN WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT would he DO?
WORK?
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
econ posted September 11, 2008 at 9:39 pm
“cosmos
YES YOU CAN!
Earmarks are Earmarks.
At any time, Stevens or anyone else in Congress could have put the FULL earmark, BACK IN!”
——–
LOL!
Now econ’s argument is Palin told Congress, “thanks, but no thanks” to an earmark that did NOT even exist.
Maybe he could carry a can and collect money to pay for his kids healthcare?
JMWalker
Don’t shoot the messenger. All Obama has to do to moot out the lawsuit is turn over the documentation sought. It is a fair question of one whose citizenship is fairly questioned. Had Palin been rumored to have been born in Canada I am certain it would have already been front page news. THe Dems have charged that McCain is not natural born, Panama and all that rot. We should ensure our presidential candidates meet the basic requirements, should we not — Right or Left. Else Arnuld could run for the RINOs.
I don’t nic switch “Freebird”.
And I also try and stick to the topic.
Re: nic switching, ask “Max” or “American way”
BlueJay
Posted September 11, 2008 at 10:49 pm | Permalink
“And I also try and stick to the topic.”
BlueJay
Posted September 11, 2008 at 10:01 pm | Permalink
“JM I’ve the feeling Kandi doesn’t look good in anything.”
BlueJay
Posted September 11, 2008 at 10:29 pm | Permalink
And I see Hank is here in his alter egos “Max” and “American way”
Nuf said. (chuckling)
American_Way
Posted September 11, 2008 at 10:43 pm | Permalink
Maybe he could carry a can and collect money to pay for his kids healthcare?
==============================================================
Why that would be almost like work for JR. The welfare is direct deposited nowadays, so they don’t even have to carry tin cups anymore.
If BJ/JR gets carpel tunnel, will he try and take conservatives to court, since we “caused” his medical problem, by forcing him to respond?
No Franklin, carpal tunnel would mean JR get’s an additional welfare benefit – Disability.
Though if you are already not working, do you get extra welfare for having a phsycial excuse?
But remember, carpal tunnel in most cases is curable with a very short recovery timeframe, unless your Doctor is a quack and you are a Lib who milks the system for as much as you can.
Physical.
Too late to spel.
Signing off. Join us tomorrow, for another episode of Liberal Whiners.
“JR get’s an additional welfare benefit – Disability.”
Max, JR must be getting some of that now. You can’t stay on welfare forever can you? I though even Clinton supported the republican congress in limiting the duration of unemployment compensation.
I now there is low-rent HUD housing, free cheese under the WIC (traditionally women, infant child, but since JR has kept a child in poverty with him, he qualifies as head of household), subsidized transportation, and a few other handouts.
But you can’t be living with much without the unemployment insurance. Food stamps will only buy you so much.
I am not on unemployment, food stamps, disability or any other government aid Hank.
Neither am I kept man as you are.
I also do not switch nics as you do.
Yeah you have more than me. You spend 100,000 dollars a year molesting goats.
But I’m better than you.
I’m comfortable in my own skin Hank. Clearly, you are not.
The Union didn’t help him much, that’s for sure.
In other words you can’t do it,Just as I thought
BJ,
If you would like I can issue the challenge on the open thread,but I really don’t thing you have the courage to take it no matter where it was issued
This “disease” of the Blog, where people cant stay on topic… looks a LOT like a kid or adult with ADD… At lest a lck of ability to do resonaqble concentration on a theme…. We ALL need to do better….
:-)
#
bjb
Posted September 11, 2008 at 10:48 pm | Permalink
JMWalker
Don’t shoot the messenger. All Obama has to do to moot out the lawsuit is turn over the documentation sought. It is a fair question of one whose citizenship is fairly questioned. Had Palin been rumored to have been born in Canada I am certain it would have already been front page news. THe Dems have charged that McCain is not natural born, Panama and all that rot. We should ensure our presidential candidates meet the basic requirements, should we not — Right or Left. Else Arnuld could run for the RINOs.
======================================================
Obama was born in Hawaii, you freakin’ moron. Your lawsuit idiot is off his meds, and so, obviously, are you. There is nothing to this, unless you’re some kind of right wing whacko, whacko.
From the incomparable Phil Proctor –
Sarah Palin is NOT a member of an Alaskan wild-animal worshipping cult called
the MOOSE-LIMS. In fact, she prefers to hunt wild animals rather than worship them.
She did NOT come up with the motto of the Alaskan Independence Party, If at first you
don’t secede, try, try again. And though Sarah is adept at gutting game, should she assume
the presidency, she will NOT rename the Oval office as the “Offal Office.”
Sarah has never been involved in any pork barrel projects, only “oil barrel“ projects.
Sarah absolutely does NOT believe in “earmarks”, or piercings or tattoos of any
sort. Although Sarah is a cartridge-carrying member of the NRA, the only thing she has
fired while in office, is people who don’t agree with her and although she did raise the
idea of banning some books from the Wassalia public library such as the celebrated
Harry Potter series, she dropped the idea after her children told her they would put a
curse on her.
Sarah Palin does NOT hold grudges, as has been wildly reporting by progressive
slime-bloggers. She believes in “catch-and-release” and releases any grudges that are
under two inches, back into the Ocean, with a severe reprimand and though she claims
she sold the governor’s private plane publicly on ebay for a profit, it was actually sold
privately to a guy named Eddie Bay, at a loss.
It is true that she was voted “Miss Congeniality” in the Miss Alaska competition,
but she was also voted “Miss Con-GEAL-iality” because her polar-bear bikini caused her
to sweat excessively and drop ice cubes on the runway. It is NOT true that the Palin
family got their name because with each successive generation of inbreeding they
actually got whiter and whiter.
It is NOT true that Sarah got the nickname Barracuda because she has teeth “down
there.” And finally – She was NOT known as the “Wicked Witch of Wasillia” when she
was Mayor. She was known as the “Good Witch.”
You should also take the time to investigate Congress before you open books. If you hit sex, you lose all your money. The very survival applies for sex.
Monkey…You need to check your facts…
go to factcheck.com for an objective source on both Obama’s and McCain’s campaign.
Palin did threaten to fire the local librarian and DID fire her one time, but the locals threw a fit and the librarian was rehired.
Her husband did belong to the organization whose goal was to get Alaska to secede from the US.
Sorry, after reading your post again, I now realize it was “tongue in cheek”.
But factcheck.com is a great site to get the real scoop.
Just looking back on this old thread, I find it unsurprising that Paul finds freerepublic.com a more credible source on SB99 than the actual Illinois legislature site (to which I linked to earlier in the thread).
Rage
You did NOT link correctly.
You are covering up for Obama.
Obama DID vote to give “comprehensive sex education” to kindergartners.
Obama voted to lower the grade level, for such sex ed, from grade 6 to “K”.
It is in the record.
It is the truth.
Walker says:
Obama was born in Hawaii, you freakin’ moron. Your lawsuit idiot is off his meds, and so, obviously, are you. There is nothing to this, unless you’re some kind of right wing whacko, whacko.***
SO …. were you there when THE ONE was born, Walker? Tell me, did the surfer dudes come worship at his star? Were the tree frogs croaking in delight?
Or was it in Kenya, and the lions laid down with the goats and the One’s Father, their herder?
Inquiring minds do want to know. Sorry, but your personal assurance that he was born in Hawaii does little for me. You probably believe that K-gart’rers should be taught sex ed, too.
Oh, and what if I stipulate to being merely a single wacko of the right wing? Then can we have a rational discussion without personal attacks? Or does the religious component render me a right wing nut job per se and thus unable to offer any concept that you might find worthy of intelligent discussion?
The Battle for the Beginning
The first moon-landing mission lasted 8 days .. Richard Nixon called it “the greatest week since creation.” Of course .. it’s no longer politically correct to believe in biblical creation .. But is it scientifically correct ?