New York Times columnist Gail Collins noted how different Wednesday’s John McCain seemed compared with “last week’s versions, that blamed Obama for the financial meltdown while tossing out rescue plans like a desperate dart player 10 minutes before the bar closes.”
On the prospect of a McCain-less debate, she recalled: “Once in New York, when Rudy Giuliani boycotted a mayoral debate, one of his opponents spent the night twirling around a rubber chicken and the citizenry enjoyed it quite a lot.”
In light of Obama’s “overly casual” manner in the face of economic disaster, she concluded: “This election is turning into a Goldilocks story. One candidate’s too hot, and one’s too cool.”
87 Comments
Chicago War Zone Information
Body count. In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ,
221 killed in Iraq .
Sens. Barack Obama & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Gov. Rod
Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan, Mayor
Richard Daley…our leadership in Illinois…all Democrats. Thank you
for the combat zone in Chicago . Of course they’re all blaming each
other. Can’t blame Republicans, there aren’t any!
State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country. Cook County
( Chicago ) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look ‘em up if you
want). Chicago school system one of the worst in country. This is the
political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois . He’s gonna ‘fix’
Washington politics?
New York Times columnist Gail Collins noted how different Wednesday’s John McCain seemed compared with “last week’s versions, that blamed Obama for the financial meltdown while tossing out rescue plans like a desperate dart player 10 minutes before the bar closes.”
=====================================
If you’re good at darts, like playing a game of 301, you won’t need 10 minutes. Heck, if you’re really good, it will take less than a couple of minutes.
Evidently, Obama is not a dart player.
The Ant and The Grasshopper, 2008 Edition.
With an interesting twist at the end wonder if this might happen to America?
“With what looks like imminent passage of the Mother of All Bailouts (following on the heels of a year’s worth of government-funded rescues of private homeowners, lenders, insurers and automakers), Washington has turned Aesop’s famous fable about prudence and hard work on its head. The time is ripe for a revised 2008 edition of “The Ant and the Grasshopper”……and the story begins:
http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2008/09/26/the_ant_and_the_grasshopper,_2008_edition
Once again we are treated to another thread based on a New York Times (read- zero credibility) article. Why? Come on Rhonda, copy and paste is for us bloggers. We will never improve the journalistic climate in this Country until those of us in the hinterland are given credible news and commentary by those who know the difference and not just the daily drivel of pap and democrat talking points that passes for the big (lame) stream media from the coasts.
I know Rhonda, your Journalism Instructors in college told you that the NY Times, et al are the gold standard of journalism and should be emulated, but that is just wrong. There is literally hundreds of columnists and news sources out there from all over the political spectrum and even some with no political ax to grind at all. Is it to much to ask to get some threads based on some other points of view, or even originate them yourselves?
McCain has little choice.
He must tuck tail and show up. He will NOT be in a good mood about this.
A good chance exists for Senator Obama to exploit this and blow McCain up for the addled old kook he is.
Boxlock you must be right even our friends in Irak are behind McCain now. Check out this glowing recommendation from
http://gorillasguides.com/
As the war(s) against terrah® in:
* Irak
* Afghanistan
* Pakistan
* The Nigerian Delta
* The Maghreb
* Mindanao
Are going so badly, and as Senator McCain is clearly the only person capable of f@^king things up even worse rescuing the world from the great big hairy spiders political and economic collapse. I offer this modest proposal to the American electorate.
VOTE McCain
He will promptly relive the glories of his youth by getting shot down over Afghanistan with a cheque for U.S$700 billion in his back pocket. (The Pakistani Air Force would like the target practise, the Taliban would like the money, and America will be safer with a raving fundamentalist lunatic from Alaska walking talking piece of lipstick as president.)
——————————————————-
316 and rising
The number of officially confirmed cholera cases in Irak now stands at 316 and rising.
mfi
Indexed under: Cholera, Cholera – spread of 2008 outbreak, Water Borne Disease, ????????
September 24th, 2008 | Tags: Cholera, Cholera – spread of 2008 outbreak, Water Borne Disease, ???????? | Category: Cholera, Health, Iraq | Leave a comment
????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ??????? ??????
Boxlock,
Right again this sounds just like Chicago
——————————————————–
Sept 26 (Reuters) – Following are security developments in Iraq at 0845 GMT on Friday.
BAGHDAD – A roadside bomb killed two people and wounded five others on Thursday when it exploded close to a mosque in the Amil district of southwest Baghdad, police said.
BAGHDAD – Three bodies with gunshot wounds were found in different districts across Baghdad on Thursday, police said.
NEAR ISKANDARIYA – A roadside bomb killed one U.S. soldier when it struck his vehicle on Thursday near Iskandariya, 40 km (25 miles) south of Baghdad, the U.S. military said.
BAGHDAD – A roadside bomb wounded four people including one policeman when it blew up on Thursday in the Jamiaa district of western Baghdad, police said. (Compiled by Aws Qusay; editing by Keith Weir)
Source: Reuters North American News Service
yup just like Chicago
Iraqi police raise death toll in ambush to 35
Iraqi police raise death toll in ambush of Iraqi police, Sunni guards to 35
SINAN SALAHEDDIN
AP News
Sep 25, 2008 07:34 EST
Iraqi police on Thursday raised the death toll in an ambush against Iraqi forces raiding a Sunni village northeast of Baghdad to 35, most of them commandos sent to the area as part of a U.S.-backed military crackdown.
The attackers in the suspected insurgent stronghold of Othmaniyah in the volatile Diyala province apparently had been tipped off about Wednesday’s raid and were waiting for the Iraqi forces to arrive, officials said.
The U.S. military had said those killed included 14 national policemen and eight members of a Sunni group allied with the Americans to fight against al-Qaida in Iraq. The military later referred questions about updates to Iraqi officials.
Too cool? A man refuses to get flustered, wants to take time to learn what really happened, and consider different ways to combat this financial meltdown, and he’s called too cool. Amazing. I guess multitasking isn’t a Washington requirement, at least in the minds of some.
BeeJay
Posted September 26, 2008 at 7:17 am | Permalink
McCain has little choice.
He must tuck tail and show up. He will NOT be in a good mood about this.
A good chance exists for Senator Obama to exploit this and blow McCain up for the addled old kook he is.
————————————————–
McCain wants to “work” to resolve the biggest finacial crisis in the history of the world.
the One wants to “talk” about it.
Bahhhhhhhh……..
bahhhhhhhh……..
Back in line sheeple!
Anti_moose
Chicago War Zone Information
Body count. In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ,
221 killed in Iraq.
————————————–
Yeah, the one left that place in fine shape.
I think this is his vision for the rest of the US.
Demand the Debate
http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5583/t/3369/thankYou.jsp?key=180
Don’t let McCain wuss out. Sign the petition.
“McCain wants to “work” to resolve the biggest finacial crisis in the history of the world.”
Yeah? How’s that working out?
HE showed up and made things worse!
Wednesday: Sen Dodd said the bailout was unacceptable.
Wednesday afternoon: McCain anounces that he is going to Washington to help the crisis.
Thursday: Sen Dodd and friends suddenly have a deal.
Thursday afternoon: We realize that there is no deal, it was just the Dems suddenly agreeing to basically the same thing that Dodd had previously said was unacceptable to make McCains arrival in Washington to appear mute.
Friday morning: Democrats say it is all McCain’s fault for blocking the bailout that Dodd had said on Wednesday was “unacceptable.” Democrats Accuse the Republicans of revolting against President Bush.
Politics is wonderful isn’t it?
The bailout went from “unacceptable” on Wednesday, to “the McCain and the Republicans are revolting against Bush” on Friday.
How about that for an about face by the Democrats?
Whatever needs to be done to blame McCain for this, they will do.
Blue Jay,
How did McCain make a proposal that was “unacceptable” on Wednesday worse?
I heard that John McCain never spoke a word nor took a position in that White House meeting yesterday. If he is such a leader, then why wasn’t he opening his mouth?
It is the Republicans who are holding up the bailout plan – just look at any news media and you will hear them saying it with their own mouths.
McCain ditched David Letterman to rush to Washington but he had time to go visit CBS News with Katie Couric and then even spent the night in New York to attend Bill Clinton’s conference the next morning.
McCain blew it big time when he ditched David Letterman and then lied about it! The American people are fed up with politicians in general but in my view, McCain has cooked his own goose with this latest stunt.
“Joint Statement of Senator Barack Obama and Senator John McCain
“The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake.
“Now is a time to come together – Democrats and Republicans – in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail.
“This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country.”
“Speaking for himself, Senator Obama outlined the following principles that he calls on Senator McCain to support:
“I believe that several core principles should guide this legislation.
“First, there must be oversight. We should not hand over a blank check to the discretion of one man. We support an independent, bipartisan board to ensure accountability and complete transparency.
“Second, we need to protect taxpayers. There should be a path for taxpayers to recover their money, and to turn a profit if Wall Street prospers.
“Third, no Wall Street executive should profit from taxpayer dollars. This plan cannot be a welfare program for CEOs whose greed and irresponsibility has contributed to this crisis.
“Fourth, we must help families who are struggling to stay in their homes. We cannot bail out Wall Street without helping millions of families facing foreclosure on Main Street.
“Fifth, we both agree that this financial rescue package should move on its own without any earmarks or other measures. We have different views about the need for other action, but this must be a clean bill.
“This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. This is not a Democratic problem or a Republican problem – this is an American problem. Now, we must find an American solution.”
http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2008/09/obamamccain_joint_statement_ha.html
Notice how little McCain was willing to agree with or even say. Who’s playing politics again?
P.S. Has anyone actually seen the Cantor plan? And who has McCain been working with on this. . .if anyone?
Lawmakers were meeting again today in Washington after some House Republicans, led by Virginia’s Eric Cantor, said they wouldn’t back a plan based on Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson’s approach. A top Senate Republican said he is willing to delay any bailout package, and let markets open next week without a relief package in place.
“We need to get back to the drawing board,” Alabama Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, said in an interview. “We need to consider this in a deliberate, linear fashion.”
The stalemate came after an unprecedented meeting at the White House with President George W. Bush, presidential nominees Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama, congressional leaders and Cabinet officers.
The setback unnerved investors, coming after the government closed Washington Mutual Inc., the largest U.S. savings-and-loan institution. Standard & Poor’s 500 stock index futures declined 1.3 percent in European trading and the yield on the two-year Treasury note fell 12 basis points to 2.04 percent, just above the Federal Reserve’s target rate.
Getting on Board
“I’m hopeful the worst of the crisis may be behind us if we can get Congress on board with the package,” Stephen Roach, chairman and acting chief executive of Morgan Stanley Asia Ltd., said in an interview in Beijing. “The government’s role is to stop a crisis from turning into a catastrophe.”
U.S. stocks rose yesterday on the prospects for an agreement. The S&P 500 Index closed almost 2 percent higher.
Republican lawmakers offered a plan calling for Wall Street firms to purchase insurance on mortgage-backed securities and advocating tax cuts and relaxed regulations. Treasury officials had previously rejected a plan focusing on insurance in favor of one that purchased troubled assets, Cantor said.
After the late-night meeting on Capitol Hill, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank and Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said some progress in negotiations had been made. They said House Republicans needed to participate for a plan to pass Congress.
`Not Serious’
The Republicans plan is “not serious,” Frank told CNN today. Frank also blamed McCain for making a dramatic announcement to suspend his campaign and return to Washington for the talks, saying that threw off the balance of the negotiations.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aipGooCni3fc&refer=home
Read last night some asian (I believe) country where the depositors were camped out over night to withdraw their savings.
Saw that the house proposal was a one page plan, which they say won’t work.
Two questions:
1. Is there anyone who still believes an agreement with be reached on the financial crisis by tonight–or anything even close?
2. Is there anyone who still believes that John McCain can’t or shouldn’t fly to Oxford to debate Obama tonight?
They got to be joking! Jebus! Nope, no presidential politics here, not at all!
Kevin Smith, a spokesman for House Republican Leader John Boehner, said the speed with which Dodd’s plan was put together was designed “to deny Senator McCain a role in trying to craft a bipartisan solution.”
Cantor was told by Boehner to start working on an alternative two days ago, Smith said. Pelosi was told today.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avnxqWMsmExs&refer=home
I think if the dems. truly see catastrophe ahead, they’ll do the valiant thing and take the bullet. At least I hope so. Republicans, I have even less faith in.
P.S. Looks like McCain had to suspend his campaign to work on alternative legislation that hadn’t been written yet. . ..
1. No
2. No
How will McCain explain his change of mind when he shows up after throwing his little tantrum?
All the times McCain wanted the big audience for his town-hall meetings.
Karma.
Now if he stays away Obama will hold the town-hall meeting with the big audience.
McCain is in over his head with this economy stuff. He, himself, admitted that he does not know that much about the economy. I think McCain needs to go to the debate and face the music. If he does not, then he will look pretty stupid and weak in the eyes of a lot of average Americans.
As for reaching an agreement – I think there will be an agreement and the irresponsible ones that caused this financial crisis will get some cover.
But I would still like to see accountability be enforced. But that is like asking the fox to put down the hen from his mouth and say he is sorry.
I think mccain may be making even more political enemies in Washington then he had before the campaign.
Too hot and too cool? Well, that’s one way of looking at it. When it comes to the marketplace, though, you’d be wise to pull the slot machine lever on behalf of nice and cool. The market is schizoid enough without the added complication of a national politician who reminds you of a poor depiction of someone out of a Joseph Conrad novel. I hereby call for influential players in the Republican Party to contact NASA and arrange for a rocketship, rescue mission to bring the G.O.P. Presidential nominee back within the realm of the pull of gravity. Further legislation will be needed to actually get the guy planted on the ground. McCain is turning out to be an altogether weirder dude than just about anyone might have imagined back in the spring. It’s hard to envision how having such a cat on a hot tin roof in the Oval Office would generate anything that even resembles a stabilizing effect on the market. You might as well consult with an astrologer or a tarot master to get a feel for what he might do next. By noon, I fully expect an announcement from the McCain camp that the election shall be moved to the planet Mars, where members of the press are not so inclined to do their jobs and point out the daily onslaught of instances in which McCain and his running mate have erred, shall we say, on the side of being economical with the truth.
As, for the debate, I think Obama will point out the folly of bringing the pres. campaign into the negotiations.
4 yrs. of mccain would be 4 yrs. of Russian Roulette!
Agreed Phantom – 4 yrs of Russian Roulette down the toilette!
First: We support an independent, bipartisan board to ensure accountability and complete transparency.
………
Like the House Finance Committee? Who IS
accountable?
——————————-
Second: There should be a path for taxpayers to recover their money, and to turn a profit if Wall Street prospers.
……..
So NOW it’s O.K. for the taxpayer to be invested in “Wall Street” to bail out your Finance and Banking buddies………
But NOT to bail out Social Security?
——————————–
Third: no Wall Street executive should profit from taxpayer dollars.
………
What did the say, top twenty guys responsible for this crisis make last year…….
About a $Billion? Damage done jr.
———————————
Fourth: we must help families who are struggling to stay in their homes. We cannot bail out Wall Street without helping millions of families facing foreclosure on Main Street.
………
So once again the Hard working and responsible American TAXPAYER will foot the bill for lazy and/ or irresponsible……….
ADD TOO THE HANDOUTS! yeah, thats the answer. stupid lib.
———————————
Fifth: we both agree that this financial rescue package should move on its own without any earmarks or other measures.
………
I have spoken, leave me alone, I have a campaign to run……
Bahhhhhhhhhhh…..
bahhhhhhhhhhh…..
back in line sheeple…
Apparently, Rep. Cantor didn’t think his plan was important enough to post on his website.
http://cantor.house.gov/news.htm
BeeJay- HE showed up and made things worse!
———————————
You would be happier with a “present” vote.
Bahhhhhhh……..
bahhhhhhh……..
sheeple…….
Question: with mortgage failures at an historic high, how exactly is this going to work?
The plan circulated by Cantor calls for a mortgage-backed security insurance fund, rather than taxpayer-funded purchases of those securities. … It also suggests that regulators call on financial institutions to suspend dividends, along with other steps to address liquidity problems.”
http://www.politico.com/playbook/
biasd1 – but you still do not dispute the fact that McCain has not added one thing to the bailout solution.
And they have not voted yet.
Boy all you cons really have to reach today to find
a reason to still vote red. I quess you are really
reassured that “Keating Five” McCain can solve the
financial markets just like back during the S&L crisis. I know he escaped with being censured for
“bad judgement”, but he was on the take big time from Keating,,,trips, campaign donations, Wife Cindy
investing in Keating real estate. And he’s gonna fix
things right. He is one of “them”. So go ahead and
vote red but put your money under your bed.
mom, “biased1″ doesn’t “dispute” anything. It only makes grunting noises now and then and can be safely ignored. :)
There isn’t even a bill to vote on yet. The committees are still working. Neither Senator McCain nor Obama are on the committees charged with these responsibilities.
The other point I meant to bring up in conjunction
with relation to McCain is that now he’s got Fannie
Mae/Freddie Mac Lobbyist Rick Davis on his staff. And who was one of the first entities to get bailed
out? Oh yeah Fannie and Freddie. The whole thing sitnks.
Back to the topic of this thread as to Obama being too cold and McCain being too hot.
I don’t think we have yet seen McCain’s hothead temper in all this hoopla. McCain is known for his hothead and impulsiveness. We have already seen the impulsive side of McCain by suspending his campaign (but obviously not suspending his photo-ops). McCain’s hothead temper will get the better of him yet.
lindainks55
Posted September 26, 2008 at 10:23 am | Permalink
There isn’t even a bill to vote on yet. The committees are still working. Neither Senator McCain nor Obama are on the committees charged with these responsibilities.
Yep. And that was also true on Wednesday when McCain and Boehner planned this stunt.
dave2652- “Keating Five”
————————–
McCain was the nearest Republican, and they had to have a Republican in the mix….read about it DA.
The “October Surprise” will probably be known as…..
“The Chicago Seven”
Bahhhhhhhh……..
bahhhhhhhh……..
“New York Times columnist Gail Collins noted how different Wednesday’s John McCain seemed compared with “last week’s versions, that blamed Obama for the financial meltdown while tossing out rescue plans like a desperate dart player 10 minutes before the bar closes.”
Hot Dam! If this is true, that McCain is the MAVERICK who stopped the sweetheart bailout deal costing taxpayers $700 Billion – then:
WAY TO GO MCCAIN!
I don’t want Congress rubber stamping this Bailout that Bush & the Feds are trying to shove down our throats using Fear Tactics.
It doesn’t have to happen right this second, if at all.
There is time for debate.
$700+++ Billion is at stake.
I don’t trust Government or anyone else who wants to use Scare Tactics into taking Immediate Action to bailout rich investors and SAVE THE ECONOMY!
Sounds too much like JR’s promises to Save the World.
This is the reason Collins gives for concluding Obama is “too casual”:
Obama, meanwhile, had not even promised to show up for the rescue bill vote until McCain made his grand gesture. When reporters asked him on Tuesday whether he was planning to go to Washington, he was noncommittal: “If we get consensus and everybody is popping Champagne, then I’ll probably go back to campaign with folks who are having a tough time in Ohio and Michigan.”
This seemed like an overly casual way to avert economic catastrophe. Since the people of Ohio and Michigan have been visited by a presidential candidate virtually every hour for the last six months, it would seem that they could get by on their own for a day or two.
So: He said if a deal was made, he would probably go back to Ohio and Michigan. Collins interprets this as “an overly casual way to avert economic catastrophe.” Can anyone make coherent sense of that? She’s saying, I guess, that daring to talk about campaigning after a deal’s been made is somehow being flip about the crisis.
The truth: Collins was looking for a “hook” for her column, and the “Goldliocks” theme came to her. We already knew the basic perceptions of the candidates’ personalities.
I regard actions as more important, and Collins’ dumb column adds nothing of significance to the debate.
Max – if you think McCain stopped the bailout plan then you really should vote for the guy.
But exactly when did McCain supposedly have time to do this rescue mission? McCain says he is a maverick but yet continues to support his own campaign advisers that were a part of the Wall Street disaster.
If McCain is truly a maverick, then let him show it by cleaning his own backyard first!
There is time for debate.
$700+++ Billion is at stake.
I agree. Why isn’t the House Republican caucus taking any interest in debate? Let them stop showboating, roll up their sleeves, and get to work!
What is seen as overly casual may just be the temperment of a leader who doesn’t fly off the handle in reaction to something he knows is being discussed by other members of Congress.
We need wise leaders not those who are willing to fly off the handle and make spectacles of themselves in order to garner a few more votes.
I noticed Obama and McCain were both in Washington at the same time for the same White House meeting.
Like I said before, McCain is known for his hothead and impulsiveness. We will just have to wait and see how this plays with the American voters.
When John Boehner brought out the bombshell proposal, Obama asked questions. McCain just sat there.
He was too calm then.
I suspect McCain did not ask any questions because he did not know what to ask. He has admitted that he does not know much about the economy.
But McCain was all smiles for the photo-op, wasn’t he?
Mccain to attend debate! Good.
Just saw a Republican strategist on CNBC saying baically, let the economy self correct, it’s good for the economy. Think he just converted some Republicans into Democrats!
“Though Sen. Chris Dodd implied that Sen. McCain sandbagged the rest of the negotiators by bringing up alternative proposals, McCain himself did not bring up those proposals, according to four independent sources briefed by four different principals inside the meeting, including two Republicans and two Democrats.
“McCain has not attacked the Paulson deal,” said a third Republican who was briefed by McCain direclty. “Unlike the [Democrats] in the [White House] meeting, he didn’t raise his voice or cause a ruckus. He is urging all sides to come together.”
Republicans like John Boehner brought up the concerns of House GOPers and McCain acknowledged hearing about their concerns. And McCain, and staffers, did seek to gauge the level of support of the GOP working group’s white paper. The Democrats were left with the impression that McCain endorsed the GOP efforts, but they concede that he did not raise them directly.
From the Atlantic Monthly.
I guess Senator Dodd ….. well, you can add in whatever you want
Govt. report. SEC allowed Bear Stearns use an internal auditor for oversight, also SEC failed to timely review finanacial reports!
This has Repub. written all over it.
Mccain sat silently at the meeting, like a snake in the grass.
Apparently, McCain is in, so there will be a presidential debate tonight.
McCain himself did not bring up those proposals,
I don’t think anyone believes that McCain came to Washington to push that plan (well, except Max). Dodd never even suggested that (though he accused the Republicans of doing it for McCain’s benefit; Marc Ambinder is simply wrong). Everything about the situation suggests that McCain didn’t even about the plan (like everyone else!) until he got there.
But don’t you think it’s an interesting coincidence that McCain supposedly suspended his campaign (he didn’t, actually), and announced he was going to Washington the same day the Boehner told Cantor to write a competing plan? Or that Boeher complained there were shutting McCain (not the House Republicans, his constituency) out fo the process?
Strange, strange stuff.
I expect the dems. in congress to do the right thing by America, and keep the economy from collapsing, even if it cost them their elections. I’m also sure the Republicans will choose cover over country. Too bad there aren’t more patriots in govt., for that matter even on these threads.
When someone out of the blue, tells you to jump over a cliff, do you jump?
What’s wrong with you Sheeple?!?
All of a sudden the Libs support Bush on a Government Bailout! Why?
More Government handouts from any source for any reason are supported!
Socialists.
All of a sudden the Libs support Bush on a Government Bailout! Why?
Actually, there are numerous things about the Paulson plan I don’t like. I don’t think it needs to be $700 billion (I’m not even crazy about the $250 bil “downpaymenet”), the lack of accountability (even with the Dem tweaks), and in general, bailing out institutions that would gladly ruin my life with a smile. And where on Earth will the money come from, when we can’t even pay for what we’re doing now?
(Heh, you wanna talk “socialism,” Max, just you wait–if things get really bad, you should stay under the bed with your gun, and watch the tube for runs on barbecue sauce. . .).
But I’m a realist–this is about more than them, and more than the US. We need to do something.
It’s easy to chunk bombs from the sidelines. Coming up with the least-bad solution is difficult.
There will be time to clean up the ample excesses and corruption, afterwards. Now the priority is to protect the economy from collapse. Even those of you that haven’t accumulated much in savings will be adversely affected through unemployment. Even if you can’t see it, the adults need to act.
Until the committees working on bills actually get one prepared, who can know what they will come up with and what our opinions of it will be? We know the plan bush proposed isn’t going to be.
Calm for now, while the negotiations work their way though the quagmire that is our legislative process… There will be time to learn what is proposed based on the limited info we’ll probably be provided. Then we’ll all form opinions and many of us will let our Congress critters know what those are.
I listened to Obama on ABC News. I still wonder what he said between all the oh’s, m’s and Uh’s. John McCain will eat his lunch, Obama has no background except the Chicago war gang, whose knows where he stands, he must be present in body only.
I don’t see the Libs lining up to support Bush’s bailout plan as was presented by Bush and Gang.
What I saw was Democrats asking questions about the bailout plan and wanting more oversight and accountability.
What I saw from the House Republicans was a revolt against their beloved King George and all in the name of wanting to protect the taxpayers.
Where were these same Republicans when they had total control from 2000 to 2006 and they pushed through every spending bill their leader George wanted? Where were these same Republicans when they had control of Congress from 1994 to 2000? If the Democrats are at fault for this financial mess (as the Republicans have tried to say), then why didn’t they use their majority power in those 12 years and stop it before it all came crashing down?
Government can’t solve this problem.
Government caused this problem.
george – McCain is no better with his speeches. Even with a teleprompter McCain will stop in mid-sentence when he makes a mistake and goes back to the beginning of the sentence. It is also unnerving to watch McCain’s eyes go back and forth because he is reading the teleprompter.
Can the man not give an ad lib speech? My God, he’s been in Congress for 26 years – has he learned nothing?
At 11:24 A.M. Eastern Time, McCain announced he would be at the debate tonight. Obama is already headed that way.
Did anyone else think McCain looked kind of dumb for unleashing all that drama for really nothing?
Palin and the whole McCain cammpaign is one huge train wreck.
mom
Posted September 26, 2008 at 11:36 am | Permalink
Where were these same Republicans when they had total control from 2000 to 2006 and they pushed through every spending bill their leader George wanted? Where were these same Republicans when they had control of Congress from 1994 to 2000? If the Democrats are at fault for this financial mess (as the Republicans have tried to say), then why didn’t they use their majority power in those 12 years and stop it before it all came crashing down?
===============================================================
You can’t have it both ways Mom. If you give the Republican Congress all the blame for anything that went Wrong in the 90’s, then you have to give them credit for anything that went Right too.
Or was Clinton to blame for all the bad things, and the Republicans to credit for all the good things?
Someone on one of the morning shows reported that the Republic Party House-members are operating out of sheer terror they might not get re-elected if they’re deemed bailing out Wall Street fat cats.
And that’s the only aspect of this complicated issue they’re concerned about. They don’t worry about the consequences of drying up all credit in America because that won’t happen ’til after November 4th.
I think it’s absurd for taxpayers to subsidize million-dollar golden parachutes (which is what Paulson proposed), yet it’s plausible that these entities have, indeed, become “too big to fail.” And any approach to this crisis has to cut them down to size; so there can no longer be a company that’s too big to fail.
The issue is so big and so complicated none of us non-economists are likely to see the big picture. But the initial polling — a month or so before an election — is strong against Grey Poupon mustard-users. And that’s all the intellect most CONs care to expend on the issue.
Nobody’s gonna like the resolution of this crisis 100%. John S (for Senile) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) is playing to the polls.
It’s a bit of a congressional Mexican Stand-Off. If a resolution is agreed on without McCoot signing on, any bad news between now and election day is fair game for his candidacy to wail: “It’s all their fault!”
You can’t have it both ways Mom. If you give the Republican Congress all the blame for anything that went Wrong in the 90’s, then you have to give them credit for anything that went Right too.
—
What did they do right? They spent $600 billion on an unnecessary war. That $600 billion would sure help us now, wouldn’t it?
During the entire Bush presidency he has always said the economy is booming while the average Americans were losing their jobs to outsourcing, higher gas prices, higher food prices, higher health care costs, foreclosures were rising and bankruptcies were rising.
So, exactly what did they do right?
So are you trying to dispute the fact that Republicans were in control for 12 years and did nothing to stop this financial mess? This Wall Street crisis did not happen overnight – it has been building for years.
Both Democrats and Republicans have dirty hands in this mess but you have to admit, your Republicans were in charge of the steering wheel. Weren’t they?
But I thought Republicans don’t play to the polls? Sarah Palin told Katie Couric that the American people are looking only towards McCain to fix the economy and not to Obama because Obama puts his finger in the air to see which way the polls are going.
Now you tell me the Republicans really do play to the polls?
But I do find it interesting that McCain decided to play Superhero this week when his poll numbers slipped by 9 points.
mom
Posted September 26, 2008 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
Both Democrats and Republicans have dirty hands in this mess but you have to admit, your Republicans were in charge of the steering wheel. Weren’t they?
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No, I don’t HAVE to admit anything.
Was Clinton in charge for 8 years or were the Repbulicans?
Mom if ya gonna crap on the Republican Congress, then your crap is fallin on Clinton too.
Chris from hack town:
How many boxtops did you have to send in for YOUR journalism degree?
Free market goes up,
Free market goes down.
No bailout for anyone. They wanted a chance at high returns, now they are paying for that risk. You want capitalism, you got it (markets go up AND down when they are free).
Max – are you so blinded by partisanship that you don’t see that I said both Democrats and Republicans have dirty hands in this mess? But as my point was – it was the Republicans in control for 12 years and 6 of those years were total control. They do bear the the majority of that crap you are so willing to throw on Bill Clinton but not on your precious Repubicans.
AGain, remind me …what did the Republicans do right between 2000 and 2006?
brian – I agree with that premise but I’m afraid without some sort of government bailout, the Wall Street mess will spill over into the everyday Americans lives. I certainly would not want to risk having another Depression.
But I strongly think that the lenders and borrowers that knowingly took out mortgages they knew they could never pay, should not be bailed out. By the same token, all those banks that kept buying these bundled mortgages should have known better too.
Everyone in the mess had greedy hands.
“was the Republicans in control for 12 years and 6 of those years were total control. ”
I couild look it up, but I don;t think so . When did the Republicans have a 60 vote majority in the Senate, and full control of the house and Tthe White House? Remember the mantra why the Democrats can;t do anything, they don’t have a 60 vote majority.
Now, I think the REpublican party has done plenty to screw things up. Plenty.Including trying to act like Democrats in spending money. Let’s just make sure we try and take our blinders off about the political parties.
Ialso think that if either party threatens to fillibuster, MAKE THEM DO IT! NOne of this pantywaist excuse crap. NO more of this damn, “uh,okay.” crap. Make them fillibuster. Make them stand on the senate floor and look like idiots talking about nothing until they quit, or they agree to have a vote. On the record vote. No more. Make the bass turds do their damn job. Everyone one of them.
Buy into the party bs, either party, sell the country down the river.
Right on LJ!
That’s why I keep my life jacket and fishin’ poles ready at all times…..seems we are always being taken on a boat ride.
It isn’t just the problem of the Wall Street mess spilling over into the everyday lives of Americans well put, btw), this goes International. That’s what happens in a Global Economy.
I posted the following on Open Thread earlier, but it bears repeating here.
Let’s Play “WALLSTREET BAILOUT” The Rules Are… Rep Kaptur D Ohio
Excellent video to see just how the Democrats feel about the bailout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds
“mom
Posted September 26, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink
brian – I agree with that premise but I’m afraid without some sort of government bailout, the Wall Street mess will spill over into the everyday Americans lives. I certainly would not want to risk having another Depression.”
Unfortunately, in a capitalistic economy, everyone’s fortunes are intertwined. Even if there is a government bailout, it will spill over into the lives of everyday Americans. You just need to choose how you want it to affect you – higher taxes to pay for a bailout, lower returns on your retirement plan/401K/investments with no bailout, or somewhere in the middle.
Even with a ‘bailout’ it is not assured that the country will not dive into a depression. Occurrence of a large depression is driven as much by the average American investor as anything. If you don’t want another Depression, just be cool with your investments/retirement/401K or whatever. Don’t freak out and go pull you money out of the bank, don’t sell your stock holdings and get out of the market, don’t stop shopping and hole up in your house like a hermit. Just do the same things you would have done if the stock market were higher.
I agree with Rep. Kaptur. Let the CEOs and bigwigs in these businesses pay for this. They can sell a couple of their houses, an extra car or two, and “even the tires on their Mercedes” is, I believe, the way she put it.
After watching a story on PBS about Sen. Obama’s decision-making process, I am definitely leaning his way. He invites people with varying viewpoints to present their arguments. He actually enjoys being challenged. He is unemotional in his deliberations. He weighs the arguments, then makes a decision.
From Sen. McCain’s behaviour just this week, I would be concerned about the bruises on his knees from all the jerking around he seems to do in reaction to things.
“FirstAmendmentFan
Posted September 26, 2008 at 3:14 pm | Permalink
After watching a story on PBS about Sen. Obama’s decision-making process, I am definitely leaning his way….”
I agree. His style is much more likely to have results favorable to our country than the knee-jerk reactionary decisions of McCain (much like those of his compatriot, the Decider, G.W.Bush).
At this critical time for our country, we need someone who will logically and rationally weigh all the options before making decisions, not someone who will jump into decisions based on emotion
mrcontroversy
Posted September 26, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Permalink
Chris from hack town:
How many boxtops did you have to send in for YOUR journalism degree?
- – - – - – - – - – — – – - – - – - – - – - – - — – - – - – - –
mrconstipated
I am what Ross Perot referred to as a “Roads” Scholar. The closest I came to a career in Journalism was as a Wichita Eagle (and Beacon at the time) paper boy when I was fourteen. But then or now, I could have come up with better ideas than mindlessly reprinting the rantings of the NY times gang of Democrat Party Hacks, I mean editorial staff.
There is a reason that the NY Times and their brethren in the “dead tree” media are hemorrhaging profits and laying off staff every which way. People are sick of their barely concealed partisanship. There are just to many options out there. Why not mix it up a little and blend in some other voices and viewpoints?
Hmmmm …. let’s see here….
1994 — Newt’s Gang of Thugs declared a
Contract ON America….
They had full control of the House
AND the Senate…
2000 — The Repugs KEPT full control of the
House and Senate, until the 2006
election..
Yep… looks like about 12 years there to me, L J… What galaxy’s calculator are you using over there??
2000 — The Repugs KEPT full control of the
House and Senate, until the 2006
election..
- – - – - – – - – - – - – – - – - – — – - – - — – - – - – — – - –
Uh, Chas, do you remember “Jumping” Jim Jeffords who gave the Dems control of the Senate from 2001 to 2003? Did your calculator come out of a cereal box?
Back up that horse there Chris – Jim Jeffords was an INDEPENDENT. He was not a Democrat. Nice try but no cigar.
mom, technically you are correct. Jumping Jim did not change parties to become a Democrat. He changed from Republican to Independent. However he chose to caucus with the Democrats. The Senate following the 2000 election was split 50/50 with the tie breaker vote of the Vice President the only thing that gave the Republicans control. When Jeffords defected to the Democrat side, he gave control to the Democrats. The Democrats were the majority party in the Senate from 2001 to 2003.