It was inevitable that the nation’s mortgage crisis would affect Wichita. Fortunately, it still isn’t hitting locally as hard as it is elsewhere, thanks to a stronger economy, steadier housing market and more conservative lending practices. Nearly 16 percent of subprime loans in the Wichita area were delinquent in June and more than 6 percent were in foreclosure, The Eagle reported. That’s high, though below the national rates and not significantly higher than the previous year’s rates. The big jump locally is in so-called Alt-A or “stated income” loans, which had foreclosure and delinquency rates in June that were twice what they were in June 2007.
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A month or so ago, the “authorizing” the government to “offer” the full-faith and credit of America to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Friday, the Bush Administration announced it was going to socialize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
(If it all sounds vaguely familiar, all George WMD Bush said he wanted in October 2002 was the “authorization” to use force against Saddam Hussein. Shrub claimed he had no intention of war in Iraq.)
The Wichita Chamber of Commerce should stay true to its Republic Party roots and propose this for the city’s new marketing slogan:
WICHITA!
Fewer people are losing their homes than some places elsewhere!
All the political sniping about the Moose-Dresser and the supposedly “44% Arab” should shame us all when we allow them to distract us from the fact that Bush-onomics has America’s financial infrastructure crumbling like that bridge in Minneapolis-St. Paul last year.
Did ya hear about what Palin and McCain plan on doing on the mortgage problem in their convention speeches? Me neither.
If foreclosures are up in Wichita, then sales prices of houses must be dropping by some percentage. As a result, shouldn’t assessed valuation of residential properties be dropping along with property taxes?
But no problem for government, just shift part of property taxes to a new sales tax. Then gradually raise both to pay for future “visions and dreams” of politicians.
They are dropping, that’s why there is the plan to raise sales taxes to compensate for the loss. The government was going to “reward” us with lower property taxes, but they’d drop without them doing anything.
I’ve been forecasting a serious recession/depression for over a year. Republicans won’t be able to blame this one on Clinton. This country has been on a 6-year spending spree using money we don’t have, and that’s about to come to an end.
“Fortunately, it still isn’t hitting locally as hard as it is elsewhere,”
That’s because in Kansas, we’re always a little behind the curve. But it’s coming and the city and county are lying about the situation to justify the obscene level of property appraisals.
If your home is your big investment, you may be in for a shock. Think you know what it’s worth? Try putting it on the market.
Individuals bought houses that they could not afford.
It is hard to see how any President could take the blame, for millions of poor, individual decisions.
Alt=A mortgage loans are, primarily, to the self employed.
Alt-A loans are often written for: Real Estate Agents, Mortgage Brokers, Insurance Agents, Financial Planners, Stock Brokers, Accountants, Attorneys etc.
In other words, people who should have understood the risks and the contract.
The bottom line is this: Political pressure, in this country, favored pushing as many people into home ownership as possible! There is no doubt about that.
Attorneys who once took lenders to court, for turning down loans, now take those same lenders to court, for approving loans that customers could not afford.
Individuals made bad decisions, with the encouragement of liberal court decisions, under laws written, in large part, by Democrats.
Still, these are individual mistakes, multiplied across the country.
By the way, if you wish to politicize this issue:
Please take a look at how many prominent Democrats work for the mortgage industry!
“Did ya hear about what Palin and McCain plan on doing on the mortgage problem in their convention speeches? Me neither.”
Nor from Obama/Biden!
Unless you call simply talking of “Change” to be doing anything.
Wow, the ignorant are easy mark for Obama, and there sure seem to be lot of them.
JWink
Actually, as long as the budgets of the 105 taxing authorities remains the same, property taxes will remain the same, regardless of property value.
Taxes are “spread” by allocation of budget against value.
Obama = Elmer Gantry
A sad commentary on today’s politics!
When it comes to governing styles (ie, governing by gut instinct),
Sarah Palin = George W Bush
Are you happy with the overall direction of the USA under the leadership of George W Bush? If so, then you’ll LOVE Sarah Palin!
:D
Pedant
Palin is often called a “micro manager”
Bush is often called a “delegator”
Their styles are far apart, and you are reaching to push them together.
“Franklin” attempts to bail out Bush-onomics with –
“…these are individual mistakes, multiplied across the country.”
And that, “Franklin,” indicates a trend.
And it isn’t accidental. It’s how business works.
If I can convince you you’re qualified to buy more than you can afford… and I’m gonna give you the money… well, maybe I might be persuaded you might know what you’re talking about. It’s your business, and all. And since I’m stupid enough to think you’re willing to think of me as qualified to pay back the loan, I might be convinced.
The real dupes are those who bought sub-prime mortgages based on houses of cards. Ah, but guess who gets protection under Republic Party rule? The dupes who expect to privatized profits and socialize losses. Bear-Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac….
The Republic Party depends on trying to convince stupid people and corrupt institutions (which likely is a working majority in America) that their reverse-Robin Hood economics somehow works.
Neither is unconditionally curious, and neither reads.
Worse, neither is smart enough to work hard all day long…and still find time to process brand new information.
Ask any successful American CEO how important this ability is, how crucial it is in the 21st century to be facile in this way.
This is a fatal flaw in both Palin and Bush. After all, look where 8 years of George W Bush got us. Do we want another 4?!?
The subject of this thread was Alt-A as opposed to Sub-prime.
They are NOT the same thing.
Alt-A loans are made to the self employed.
Many of those folks are EMPLOYED in the very industries that you attack.
You are not making any sense.
Yawn usual wingnut lies and spin this morning.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0820-06.htm
Has Goldman Sachs Taken Over the Bush Administration?
When US President George W. Bush stepped forward to announce his new treasury secretary on May 30, a few Goldman Sachs friends likely knew Henry Paulson had the job.
Has Goldman Sachs Taken Over the Bush Administration?
Paulson was not the first Goldman executive to join the Bush administration from the 137-year-old investment bank described by the president as one of America’s “most respected firms”.
In fact, he was following in the well-heeled footsteps of three other former Goldman alumni who answered Bush’s call, although Stephen Friedman who briefly headed the White House National Economic Council, has since returned to “the firm” as it is known on Wall Street.
Aside from running a billion-dollar bank, it is also likely that Paulson’s political donations of tens of thousands of dollars to Republican senators added to his luster.
The “revolving door” between the corporate world and government is nothing new, but Goldman leads the way by far in terms of its managers infiltrating the White House and other top government posts.
“It appears to be, for whatever reason, that Goldman Sachs sometimes has a disproportionate share of former employees in and out of government at any one time,” said former White House spokesman Trent Duffy, who observed personnel decisions.
“Some companies are more welcoming of government officials and maybe that’s how Goldman has been a little more successful in putting its people in there,” Duffy said.
Others said Goldman’s blue-chip reputation also helps………………..
Bear-Stearns shareholders LOST their investments.
Bear-Stearns account holders were protected.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac shareholders will lose their investments.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage holders will not notice any change.
The LOSSES have been felt by the people responsible for those losses.
At the same time, a market panic, and a “run on the banks” has been avoided.
Again, you are not making any sense.
Here wingnuts look who’s running the show
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/goldman-sachs-marches-on-with-bushs-candidate-for-world-bank-451094.html
Goldman Sachs marches on with Bush’s candidate for World Bank
By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Thursday, 31 May 2007
“In Goldman Sachs we trust,” was the title of one of the chapters of John Kenneth Galbraith’s The Great Crash, his account of the crooked dealings that triggered the great stock market bust of the 1920s.
President George Bush will not have had that unflattering chapter in the Wall Street bank’s history in mind as he nominated Robert Zoellick to head the World Bank yesterday.
Mr Zoellick, 53, is a senior executive of Goldman Sachs, who until recently was the deputy US Secretary of State. Before that he was the US trade representative, where he dealt abrasively with “globalisation nihilists,” as he described opponents of American trade policy towards the developing world. World reaction to his nomination was broadly positive, but France’s foreign minister Bernard Kouchner said Mr Zoellick must move swiftly to restore confidence in the World Bank’s role in rolling back poverty. “Between the partners and the World Bank it is mainly a question of confidence.”
Republicans have been warning about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a long time.
This was written BEFORE Gore lost his election:
http://www.vault.com/nr/printable.jsp?ch_id=253&article_id=53549&print=1
“These so-called government-sponsored enterprises could turn out to be one of the stock market’s purest election bets. If Democrats gain seats in Congress and Al Gore wins, then the pros think the attacks on Fannie Mae’s massive expansion will end.
Of course, a win by Bush and the Republicans could intensify the harping about Fannie Mae’s huge explosion in lending, since the increase has come under Clinton-pal Franklin Raines.
Alan Greenspan has come down on the anti-Fannie Mae side, chiding the company for lending too much to too many lately.
In essence, Fannie Mae is adding liquidity to the financial system that circumvents the Fed’s power.
And Wall Street and banks are also against it, because Fannie Mae – with the government backing up its boo-boos – can finance mortgages at rates lower than others can.
OK – time out. Politics is a fun game to play, and everything these Washington gurus are saying about Fannie Mae is probably correct. But they are missing one thing – default rates.
If the U.S. economy is slowing (especially if it’s doing so while inflation remains high), then a larger number of the riskier Fannie Mae mortgages are likely to go into default in the coming months.”
Fannie Mae.
By Dan Gainor
The Boone Pickens Free Market Fellow
June 7, 2006
When most people hear the word “Enron,” they mentally complete the phrase by adding the word “scandal.” As reporter Lester Holt of NBC’s “Today” put it in a January 1 story, “Enron has been the poster child, if you will, of corporate scandals.”
It isn’t the only one, though. There’s $40-billion scandal with most of the same elements – even connection to prominent politicians. Just don’t expect to see much about it on TV. After all, the top people involved here are Democrats.
Welcome to Fannie Mae, the government-sponsored mortgage giant. As part of a scandal that’s been running nearly two years, Fannie Mae has “misstated earnings” to the tune of $10.8 billion.
That’s some tune.
So far, the Fannie fiasco has cost Chief Executive Officer Franklin Raines and several other top executives their jobs. The stock has dropped from nearly $80 a share to around $50 – roughly $30 billion in lost value. And the company recently settled with the federal government and agreed to pay $400 million in fines, stemming from allegations that the firm fiddled with the books to ensure bigwigs got performance bonuses.
To top it off, the Fannie Mae leadership was quite well-connected in D.C., especially to the Democratic Party. The May 23 Washington Post made this all clear in black and white. The front page of that day’s Business section showed how James A. Johnson, a former campaign manager for Walter Mondale’s presidential run, had created “a political powerhouse.”
That story had a photo of Johnson, who had been chairman and chief executive of Fannie Mae, flanked by two other photos – both other prominent Democrats. On one side was Raines, a former head of the Office of Management and Budget under Clinton. On the other was Clinton Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick.
While the rest of the graphic listed other prominent Democrats and Republicans, the titanic captains at Fannie Mae were clearly Democrats.
http://www.businessandmedia.org/commentary/2006/com20060607.asp
The housing market isn’t the only morgage crisis we have to worry about. Bush has for all practical purposes taken out a Chinese sub-prime second mortgage on the whole country to pay for his personal little vendetta in Iraq. If the current recession deepens much more, The government won’t be able to afford the interest payments, and the Chinese will simply start foreclosure proceedings. Ever consider McCain was set up to be the fall guy?
Yup more of the same from Mr.McCain,
McCain has also said that in the White House he’d rely on the same circle of economic advisers who have helped him: Jack Kemp, Phil Gramm, Warren Rudman, and Pete Peterson, meaning that any of them would be a good bet for Treasury or the National Economic Council. Many close to McCain believe Gramm is a shoo-in at Treasury. The quartet has very different views, with Kemp as a tax cutter and Peterson a tax hiker.
Three other likely members of McCain’s economic team are the well-respected former Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former congressman Rob Portman, and former congressman John Kasich, who might end up head of the Office of Management and Budget.
If McCain doesn’t go with one of the CEOs, Republican power broker and former Goldman Sachs executive Lewis Eisenberg might be Commerce secretary.
Jed brings up an interesting point. Interest payments on the debt now take up 20% of yearly tax proceeds. If the Fed has to increase interest rates to attract foreign money the amount of interest paid will go up.
One of the reasons your groceries are so expensive is the treasury has cranked up the printing presses. This creates inflation.
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 8:50 am | Permalink
Individuals bought houses that they could not afford.
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink
The subject of this thread was Alt-A as opposed to Sub-prime.
=======================================================
First the thread is about both: Read
Second, while people who couldn’t afford home loans bought them anyway, people were loaning the money for them to do so.
The problem was those same people making the loans were doing so with other peoples money. Care to explain, Wangoboy, why anyone would make a home loan to someone with a 615 credit rating? A rating guaranteeing a massive 1 in 6 chance of repaying the loan?
Then all these questionable loans were torn into a thousand pieces, lumped into various CDOs, and sold to companies like Bear Stearns, Countrywide, Fannie Mae, etc., for as little as 1% down. When people started defaulting, the giddiness of the greedy turned to plain fear: how do we pay for all the defaulted loans, and the useless CDOs we have on hand. I Know: We’ll get the government to make it right.
Business should be allowed to succeed, but they should also be allowed to fail. THAT’S capitalism.
What the housing market is going through now is not a crisis, but a return to normal: If you can’t afford the payments, you ain’t getting the loan. That’s how it should have been all along, but business got greedy, and the result is what you’re seeing now.
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 9:18 am | Permalink
While the rest of the graphic listed other prominent Democrats and Republicans, the titanic captains at Fannie Mae were clearly Democrats.
=======================================================
Hey, bozo, this market correction has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with greed, which knows no politics. Your hatred of anything and everything democrat blinds you to basic facts: People, when certain things, like housing, are put on the line, get greedy really easy, and Bear Stearns, Countrywide, etc., got real greedy. Politics had nothing to do with it.
Jed
If we refused to pay back China, China could go to war with us, I guess.
Also, the credit rating of Treasury Bonds would be destroyed.
However, China has no real power over us.
You can not “call” a Treasury obligation.
You do not know what you are talking about.
JM
you seem to be the bozo here.
I was, obviously, responding to other posters who claim that the housing mess is, somehow, “Bush’s Fault” —
You have responded, rather harshly, with the statement that this was not a partisan issue?
LOL
My point, exactly!
annie
Give it a rest, would you?
How many of the Clinton economic advisors now work in the mortgage business, or on Wall Street?
How much campaign money do Democrats, in Congress, receive from Wall Street, Mortgage industry and Real Estate concerns?
You are a bitter partisan, Annie.
So much so that you have no credibility.
JM
Try reading, would you?
How can you call this statement “partisan”?
“Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 8:50 am | Permalink
Individuals bought houses that they could not afford.
It is hard to see how any President could take the blame, for millions of poor, individual decisions.”
“It is hard to see how any President could take the blame, for millions of poor, individual decisions.”
But of course Franklin that is exactly what the Dems try and do, unless of course it’s their own candidate.
JMWalker
Posted September 7, 2008 at 9:57 am | Permalink
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 9:18 am | Permalink
While the rest of the graphic listed other prominent Democrats and Republicans, the titanic captains at Fannie Mae were clearly Democrats.
=======================================================
That is not a partisan statement? By whomever? On your post? I responded in kind. If you post someone’s writing, and don’t even know what’s in it . . . need I say more?
The ONLY thing we agree on is it had nothing to do with bush.
Boxlock
Posted September 7, 2008 at 10:56 am | Permalink
“It is hard to see how any President could take the blame, for millions of poor, individual decisions.”
==================================================
I know this is someone else’s statement, but who were the people loaning them money in the first place? Could it have been completely non-partisan people driven by greed, not checking credit histories, monthly pay, etc.? Greed knows no political persuasion, in case you want a quick history of the world. To assign it such is just plain moronic.
#
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 10:46 am | Permalink
annie
Give it a rest, would you?
How many of the Clinton economic advisors now work in the mortgage business, or on Wall Street?
How much campaign money do Democrats, in Congress, receive from Wall Street, Mortgage industry and Real Estate concerns?
You are a bitter partisan, Annie.
So much so that you have no credibility.
==============================================
Yep . . . no partisan politics going on there, is there. Oh, excuse me . . . responding in kind, huh
LOL
The problem was those same people making the loans were doing so with other peoples money. Care to explain, Wangoboy, why anyone would make a home loan to someone with a 615 credit rating? A rating guaranteeing a massive 1 in 6 chance of repaying the loan?
That’s the heart of the problem. How about answering the question?
hahaha Franklin calls me bitter,
Come again on those liar loans, no documents needed for job income or assets. Attorneys, insurance agents and other professional people couldn’t provide any doc’s for earnings hahaha. Geez Franklin do you think we all fell off the freakin turnip truck?
Here’s the blog that that Bernanke reads when he need’s to learn about the housing crisis.
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/
With enforced regulation by the administration the bogus loans couldn’t have been made. That’s what happens when you leave it up to wall street and the loan companies.
“With an Alt-A mortgage, loan applicants can state their income without providing documentation.”
My name is Elmer J. Fudd and I own a mansion and a yacht.
And when American Way defaults on the loan I could not afford – please cry about it being Bush’s fault, or the “evil lenders”.
I want a bailout too. Work it libs. A real touchy-feely whine for those poor, ignorant people who signed their signature – their word, their bond to documents to buy their homes.
Please. I want a “gimmee” too.
Annie, you need to study Alt-A financing.
You obviously don’t understand the concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-A
“Borrower considerations
An example of a person requesting a Stated Income mortgage is an individual with multiple and varying sources of income that would require an onerous amount of paperwork to document, such as income from self-employment or investments. Note that reduced documentation loans still require that borrowers authorize the lender to order their tax returns at random from the Internal Revenue Service in order to verify the income on the application.”
Papa bush is taking over Fannie and Freddie.
Used to be if you were self emp., you had to furnish your tax returns with the app., guess that was pre-The Ownership Society.
Income verification is an old concept.
But oh I do understand it Franklin,
It’s a game of musical chairs as long as the property values go up. Your trying to spin it as a couple of dumb smucks who were stupid enough to buy these loans.
Follow the money children. When property values could no longer rise, people could no longer refinance and started to default. The housing ATM closed.Use the google the truth will set you free.
#
American_Way
Posted September 7, 2008 at 11:37 am | Permalink
“With an Alt-A mortgage, loan applicants can state their income without providing documentation.”
My name is Elmer J. Fudd and I own a mansion and a yacht.
And when American Way defaults on the loan I could not afford – please cry about it being Bush’s fault, or the “evil lenders”.
I want a bailout too. Work it libs. A real touchy-feely whine for those poor, ignorant people who signed their signature – their word, their bond to documents to buy their homes.
Please. I want a “gimmee” too.
======================================================
And again I ask: Who are the morons lending money to people who can’t afford it? GREEDY business, loaning other peoples money, that’s who. It has NOTHING to do with politics. Sheeeeesh.
JM I hope you will read my last post and do your own research to see who the morons’ are who were lending money to people who could not afford.
Where is the Senate Banking Committee? Where is the Senate Ethics Committee? MIA
annie
And how in the hell is this the “fault” of George W. Bush?
“Actually, as long as the budgets of the 105 taxing authorities remains the same, property taxes will remain the same, regardless of property value.”
Excellent point Franklin. Except,
A city sets it’s mill levy based upon the budget and property valuation (from the county provided valuations).
The ASSESSED VALUE on your home is by law a fixed % of the appraised value. The assessed value of a residential property is currently set at 11.5% of its appraised value.
So, if the appraised value on your home goes down, your assessed value should go DOWN.
Say the city budget is $ X.
The citywide appraised valuation is Y.
If every homes ASSESSED VALUE went down, the value for “Y” will go down.
If the city budget does not change and remains at $ X, it will take MORE ad valorem property tax to support the budget.
The mill levy is the tax rate that is applied to each $1,000 of a property’s assessed value. Citywide, it will take a higher mill levy to maintain the SAME BUDGET.
Look at it in the inverse.
What happened generally over the last decade during the rising value of our homes?
Our appraised valuation went up, therefore, cities cut have CUT THE MILL LEVY to bring in the same revenue needed to support a flat budget.
Did that happen? Generally, no. The cities for the most part ATE THE HIGHER revenue brought in – and local politicians bragged about HOLDING THE MILL LEVY. However, this is not true. Our taxes went up even during years of growth and increasing property valuation.
rejoinder?
Lax regulation, and the repubs. whine when businesses do what they have always done, make a profit anyway they can.
AM Way
I used to get PAID do “certify” the mill levy, in all 105 taxing districts, when I worked for the Clerk.
I understand the concept well.
The tax revenue raised is, pretty much a FIXED number.
If value fluctuates, up or down, the mill levy will fluctuate, down or up, to end up with the SAME end result.
“cities cut have” should be
“cities COULD have”
Phantom
Posted September 7, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink
With enforced regulation by the administration the bogus loans couldn’t have been made. That’s what happens when you leave it up to wall street and the loan companies.
Phantom, if you have read my posts today you will see what happened here had little if anything at all to do with the White House whether under Clinton or Bush.
It did however have much to do with the Senate Banking Committees lack of oversight and the failure of the ethics committee to get to the bottom of the mess early on.
This mess has more arms than an octupus and there are R’s and D’s on them all. No party can be held blameless.
AM Way
I think, in order for a taxing authority to “brag” they should either REDUCE their budget, or keep their budget the same.
Keeping the mill levy level is empty, as a performance measure, if the values are rising.
That taxing authority is STILL getting more revenue.
And how in the hell is this the “fault” of George W. Bush?
By allowing investment banks to play in the mortgage market. This was once a no no. Regulations were repealed, existing reg’s were not enforced.
Big bizness had their utopias screwed it and now we the tax payer will eat it. yum yum
Phantom
Posted September 7, 2008 at 11:56 am | Permalink
Lax regulation, and the repubs. whine when businesses do what they have always done, make a profit anyway they can.
—————
Phantom you are trying to tie in businesses making a profit on products and services they sell to the obviously corrupt practices of the mortgage industry.
Why do the dems always want to lay blame on the repubs? Can’t you get your mind around the fact that this is bipartisan corruption?
“the mill levy will fluctuate, down or up, to end up with the SAME end result”
But that’s not what happens. I know this from my own experience with local government (not the auditor side).
When the countywide appraisal went up, the cities within the county enact their city budgets and set the mill levy for their cities.
When the valuation went up, cities rarely dropped their mill levy. Instead, they voted to keep the MILL LEVY THE SAME. If I’m taxed at say 53 mills, and my personal property valuation went up, then the 11.5% residential (BTW, for those calling business evil: Class 1 commercial businesses pay 25%)will result in paying more taxes.
To remain REVENUE NEUTRAL cities should lower their MILL Levy when the citywide valuation goes up. Agreed?
“GREEDY business, loaning other peoples money”
Walker why are you so down on the businesses which are just providing a “service” to people?
It’s really no different that payday loans – instant loan businesses. You see these on nearly every downtown street.
They are providing a necessary service to people who WANT the services. People who drive, walk, or bus to the business and sign their signature on a loan for double-digit interest rates.
It’s all perfectly legal.
Now, that these people can be sorted into a grouping called “the needy”, “the less fortunate”, or “disadvantaged” is all beside the point.
These people ALL signed for the loans THEY REQUESTED.
It’s not unlike other social issues in our society. For instance, the black men not taking responsibility for THEIR children. Black on black crime (murders). White teenage prescription drug abuse. All these – even liberals now openly acknowledge are symptoms of something other than government.
Deep down, you know, there truly ARE irresponsible people.
Great post, MH.
Franklin doesn’t explain why people got stupid in 2000 but weren’t stupid for the 70 years prior.
The real reason –which you’ll never hear from the drive-by media, btw– is that the Second Glass-Steagal Act passed in 1933 specifically to prevent the kind of housing bubble, foreclosure, and bank failure that happened during the early part of the Depression was repealed by an Act in 1988 sponsored by Phil Gramm and which bears his name.
It only took some 20 months for banks to merge and start offering the exotic loans and byzantine financing that were previously illegal.
The rest is a simple replay of history.
Correction–The Graham Act was passed in 1998.
#
American_Way
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:18 pm | Permalink
“GREEDY business, loaning other peoples money”
Walker why are you so down on the businesses which are just providing a “service” to people?
It’s really no different that payday loans – instant loan businesses. You see these on nearly every downtown street.
They are providing a necessary service to people who WANT the services. People who drive, walk, or bus to the business and sign their signature on a loan for double-digit interest rates.
It’s all perfectly legal.
Now, that these people can be sorted into a grouping called “the needy”, “the less fortunate”, or “disadvantaged” is all beside the point.
These people ALL signed for the loans THEY REQUESTED.
It’s not unlike other social issues in our society. For instance, the black men not taking responsibility for THEIR children. Black on black crime (murders). White teenage prescription drug abuse. All these – even liberals now openly acknowledge are symptoms of something other than government.
Deep down, you know, there truly ARE irresponsible people.
=======================================================
No where did I say I was down on business; only greedy business. Of course there are irresponsible people, but it’s many times irresponsible business feeding them (loans). And I never mentioned ““the needy”, “the less fortunate”, or “disadvantaged”.
If there are irresponsible people requesting loans, there will be irresponsible people loaning them money. And that is one reason for this so-called housing crisis.
While you may not be able to understand this, but there are many in this country who do need the help of charities, churches, and, yes, even the government. Katrina comes to mind: Many bitching about the lack of FEMA presence, it being a government entity, and very much needed.
The payday loan sharks are another story entirely.
Franklin plays the typical game of blaming the victim, with a little implicit racism thrown in.
If only the liberal gov’t hadn’t been forced to help poor people (read: coloreds), then we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Absolutely false. This was a scheme cooked up entirely by the financiers. They hated the regulations placed on banks since the Depression.
That’s why the Republics brought us the financial scandals of the S & L crisis. Regulations were passed for a reason–the Great Depression.
By de-regulating, the Republics put in place the same financial conditions that led to Depression.
Banks are failing like they haven’t failed since . . . uh . . . the Depression.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
Correction–The Graham Act was passed in 1998.
===========================#
CapnAmerica
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
Correction–The Gramm-Leach-Bliley act was passed in 1999.
=========================
All perfectly legal Walker. Doing business within the letter of the law is NOT illegal nor irresponsible.
As CaptAmerica points out above, much of the woos facing the home industry and owners today is due in large part to government intervention. Programs with the social goals of “encouraging home ownership” for every American are doomed to fail.
And where the government does play a role, Congress has failed to provide the oversight some feel is needed to prevent “irresponsible” home loans. Why? Because that would discourage home ownership by EVERY American. Seems government is having a problem wanting it both ways.
Katrina was a huge disaster of proportions unmeasured previously in our history. The “government” at all levels was not prepared to deal with the problems. But again, government intervention added to the suffering of millions.
From the time someone built the first levy to contain mother nature – government set us up for doom in NO. And it will happen again.
You all have seen this haven’t you?
http://www.kansas.com/news/updates/story/520765.html
It’s about the govt. announcement to take over fannie and freddie. I see Merril lynch guy appointed.
Walker why are you so down on the businesses which are just providing a “service” to people?
It’s really no different than the heroin and crack pushers – the drug businesses. You see these on nearly every downtown street.
They are providing a necessary service to people who WANT the services. People who drive, walk, or bus to the business and give their money for an addictive drug.
It’s all perfectly legal.
Now, that these people can be sorted into a grouping called “the needy”, “the less fortunate”, or “disadvantaged” is all beside the point.
These people ALL asked for the heroin and crack THEY REQUESTED.
Interesting to note Graham is a mortgage ind. lobbyist.
Ah ha! Walker.
Even better.
“All perfectly legal Walker. Doing business within the letter of the law is NOT illegal nor irresponsible” — America Pays.
They didn’t do buisiness within the letter of the law, however. Also, the law is meaningless, if fat cats can buy legislation, which contributed to the current housing and banking meltdown.
Annie:
“annie_moose
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:02 pm | Permalink
And how in the hell is this the “fault” of George W. Bush?
By allowing investment banks to play in the mortgage market. This was once a no no. Regulations were repealed, existing reg’s were not enforced.
Big bizness had their utopias screwed it and now we the tax payer will eat it. yum yum”
—-
Study Glass-Steagall
Study the REPEAL of Glass-Steagall.
Study which CLINTON signed that repeal!
You do not know what you are talking about!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act
“But again, government intervention added to the suffering of millions.
LACK OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION added to the suffering of millions.
“From the time someone built the first levy to contain mother nature – government set us up for doom in NO. And it will happen again.”
Take for instance, the Big Ditch in Wichita. Downtown used to flood repeatedly until the flood water had a place to go, thanks to gov’t planning.
Government only fails when people who want it to fail–Republics–run it.
Am Way
Technically, cities do not “set” mill levies.
The Appraiser sets values.
The Taxing Authorities set budgets.
The County Clerk CERTIFIES mill levies.
You’re right, “Centrist” Bill Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagal.
He and all the other go-along-to-get-along Dems share a large part of the blame.
Which party had control of both the senate and congress? Who’s party had the bill drafted?
Here’s what Franklin left out when he cited his source:
The argument for preserving Glass-Steagall (as written in 1987):
1. Conflicts of interest characterize the granting of credit – lending – and the use of credit – investing – by the same entity, which led to abuses that originally produced the Act
2. Depository institutions possess enormous financial power, by virtue of their control of other people’s money; its extent must be limited to ensure soundness and competition in the market for funds, whether loans or investments.
3. Securities activities can be risky, leading to enormous losses. Such losses could threaten the integrity of deposits. In turn, the Government insures deposits and could be required to pay large sums if depository institutions were to collapse as the result of securities losses.
4. Depository institutions are supposed to be managed to limit risk. Their managers thus may not be conditioned to operate prudently in more speculative securities businesses. An example is the crash of real estate investment trusts sponsored by bank holding companies (in the 1970s and 1980s).
CapnAmerica
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:56 pm | Permalink
“But again, government intervention added to the suffering of millions.
LACK OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION added to the suffering of millions.
“From the time someone built the first levy to contain mother nature – government set us up for doom in NO. And it will happen again.”
Take for instance, the Big Ditch in Wichita. Downtown used to flood repeatedly until the flood water had a place to go, thanks to gov’t planning.
Government only fails when people who want it to fail–Republics–run it.
Phantom
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
Which party had control of both the senate and congress? Who’s party had the bill drafted?
————————-
Capn and Phantom as long as we (collective) keep our heads in the sand then nothing will ever be resolved. For years politicians play us against each other with one hand while picking our pockets with the other one.
This is why this blog and its posters are so irritating. They can only see those politicians who have a letter on their chest that is different from the one on their own chests. This makes them the ‘enemy’ and away we go.
We do have problems. We have committees withing the legislative processes which should be addressing these problems. What captures the time of our senate and congress. Look at their latest hearings to see what is ‘important’ to them.
Until we let them know in no uncertain terms we are tired of business as usual it won’t change. Just keep digging at the opposition party though. That will work wonders!
Senator Biden?
Senator Biden AYE!
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s1999-354&sort=name
Senator McCain did not vote on this one!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
Ok–
BS. Your party brought us to the brink.
Don’t give us that “now we have to work together crap.”
The only thing I want to help RepubliCONs do is jump off a cliff.
That “Cliff” is, apparently, over an ocean called VICTORY!
LOL
You mean the victory like in 2006 when the Pukes lost the Senate and the House.
Okay . . . we’ll take more of that . . .
We shall see.
Zogby has McCain Palin ahead:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1548
Capn as usual you don’t have the capacity to engage in a civil discussion. Lets keep crawling down the low road the dems are marking out.
1. Join with the MSM to demand a DNA test on Trip Palin to find his ‘real’ parents.
2. Ignore an accessible VP candidate who has a powerful lobbiest for a son. But go after Palin about her pregant teen age daughter.
3. Attack the credentials of the sitting Gov of a state that produces 20% of our domestic oil production but ignore the prez candidate who has been a ‘community organizer’.
4. Same ole, same ole, lies on Dimunderground your bible and textbook.
Your loss and yes I think that the GOP will either win or scare the dims to death with the closeness of the contest. Then when the dims should be winning by leaps and bounds.
If the media will honor the republican’s desire not to be interviewed, they just might have a shot!
Why should we be winning by “leaps and bounds” when there are so many stupid people like you OkO who continue to support the RepubliCONs no matter what?
…not to have Palin interviewed..
I think I will run in the next election. I have been a committee woman for my district. I am a member of DAB. A district advisory board which identifies problems in our community and works with the city council to address these.
I will have to pick up some retired terrorists and a slum landlord as my backers but surely I can do this in the next 4 years.
I will make sure my daughters aren’t ‘punished’ with babies and renounce my stance on life.
Oh I do have to get a VIP home loan with below market interest rates and oh yes – Note to self: Change party affilitation.
More non-bank banks, without the regulation of traditional banks and let banks enter other areas of investments, yea that was the Repub. mantra.
Latest Gallup poll: McCain 48, Obama 45.
=) a week ago, Obama was up by 8.
CapnAmerica
Posted September 7, 2008 at 1:41 pm | Permalink
Why should we be winning by “leaps and bounds” when there are so many stupid people like you OkO who continue to support the RepubliCONs no matter what?
——————-
Because you and your cohorts are constantly telling us how out of touch we are with the mainstream. Our faith makes us relics, our stance on life is prehistoric, our belief in the second ammendment is out of date. And on and on and on.
So…. if we are in the minority why are you majority people having such a hard time getting the numbers to beat us?
“Zogby has McCain Palin ahead:”
So does Gallup.
A 11 point bounce from a blah convention. Will wonders never cease? If memory serves me the dims were bragging about the 8 point bounce Obama got.
Yeah . . . we don’t say any of those things, but the Right-wing keeps telling you we do, and you keep loving the false sense of self-righteous outrage it gives you.
Remember what I said about stupid?
CapnAmerica
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:48 pm | Permalink
Walker why are you so down on the businesses which are just providing a “service” to people?
It’s really no different than the heroin and crack pushers – the drug businesses. You see these on nearly every downtown street.
===================================================
Gee, isn’t that what I said? About GREEDY business. I said no where I was against business in any way, other than the greedy businesses. Can’t you people read?
But why are there unions? Because GREEDY businesses used their labor forces like they were slaves. If there were no GREEDY businesses, there would be no need for unions, business laws, securities laws, government intervention, etc. It is because of both greedy people and greedy business, that laws are necessary.
It is also because people can’t always take care of situations that government organizations like FEMA are, for better or worse, necessary. Yes, they were outgunned by Katrina, but it is also the case they were in no way prepared due to incompetence. That is to be blamed on government, not any particular party, IMHO. And, I agree: it will happen again. You just can’t fool mother nature.
okobserver,
So WHO are YOUR ‘experts’ on the Arctic Refuge issue?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/the-gop%e2%80%99s-white-bread-convention/#comment-418986
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 1:18 pm | Permalink
Senator Biden?
Senator Biden AYE
===============================================
McCain graduated fifth from the bottom of his class. You just can’t fix stupid:-)
Capn don’t tell a person who reads posts here everyday that your team doesn’t say these things daily. We aren’t brain damaged as the dims would like to think. Some days I even note every time Linda, or Ben, or BlueJay or Chas, or you ride us over our faith.
Chas your so called Christian had the gall to write the other day that a facist would lead them ‘wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross’.
That lie just won’t fly today Capn.
American_Way
Posted September 7, 2008 at 12:42 pm | Permalink
All perfectly legal Walker. Doing business within the letter of the law is NOT illegal nor irresponsible.
=======================================================
Right: It’s not irresponsible to loan money to people who have no chance of repaying it. It’s no wonder you think I hate all business: you’re brains wired directly into the neo-con network.
“It’s really no different than the heroin and crack pushers – the drug businesses. You see these on nearly every downtown street.”
Sorry Capn. Nice try, but it’s not the same thing.
Apples do not equal oranges.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted September 7, 2008 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
okobserver,
So WHO are YOUR ‘experts’ on the Arctic Refuge issue?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/the-gop%e2%80%99s-white-bread-convention/#comment-418986
=================
Are you an expert on the Arctic Refuge issue cosmos?
What makes you an expert? Are you a PhD in geology, biology, climatology and any science at all?
Or are you just an Internet geeky boy that posts hyperlinks. :D
Cosmos an argument with you is like trying to climb up an oiled rope. You have NEVER acknowledged that you were ever wrong on any of your ‘facts’ presented by your ‘peer reviewed’ experts.
Many poster have proven some of them wrong. And no I will not take my time to go back and post those again just for you. If you didn’t read them the first time you won’t read them the second time.
You and I will never be on the same page here. Gotta go I am winter proofing my windows getting ready for the coldest winter on record in over 40 years.
I am ready for a little warming myself. But I do have to admit that I have enjoyed the mild summer we just had.
“money to people who have no chance of repaying it”
Sorry Walker, you can try throwin your standards of ethics and moral around it all you want. You cannot blame the businesses for foolish and irresponsible people.
But it’s all perfectly legal, based upon the laws passed by the government.
The next disaster in the financial arena we will be arguing about is credit cards. Prediction: It will be “evil greedy” credit card companies and banks you will blame.
Wow, look at those poll numbers! Not good.
Time to quit this happy talk and get out to campaigning.
Thanks for the motivation.
Financial institutions knew they could bundle highly speculative loans and pass them off for a premium.
JM
A students, genearlly, make AWFULL leaders.
I have had attorneys tell me that “A students become college professors, B students become judges, and C students make all the money” —
Besides which, YOU, JM would never be admitted to the Naval Academy, in the first place.
McCain GRADUATED from the Naval Academy, something you could never, ever have done, even in your prime.
And, McCain did this as a self-confessed hell raiser who did not think of anyone but himself, until after Hanoi!
McCain, in other words, graduated without even trying very hard.
“This is why this blog and its posters are so irritating. They can only see those politicians who have a letter on their chest that is different from the one on their own chests. This makes them the ‘enemy’ and away we go….Until we let them know in no uncertain terms we are tired of business as usual it won’t change. Just keep digging at the opposition party though. That will work wonders!”
OKobserver, I have been trying to convince the democrats on these blogs for years that as long as we are separated by party, the blue and red, we will stay divided as a nation and nothing will get done…. daring to even imply that the democrats are less than holy in any matter is a waste of time here.
They have a one track mind. It could be the koolaid or the tape recordings. I don’t know which.
okobserver,
So you’re claiming that all of my ‘experts’ are wrong?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/sebelius-takes-on-hurricane-sarah/#comment-418386
The legislation at the Library of Congress is made up, and inaccurate?
The analysis of Area 1002 by the U.S. Geological Survey is bogus?
The report by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service is invalid?
And your proof of the above is just posting ad hominems at me?
cosmos_originally
Posted September 7, 2008 at 2:15 pm | Permalink
okobserver,
So you’re claiming that all of my ‘experts’ are wrong?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/sebelius-takes-on-hurricane-sarah/#comment-418386
=============================
Have you ever been to the Arctic Refuge cosmos?
I remember when I was planning a trip to Italy. I studied all I could find on the culture, architecture and history.
I thought I knew quite a bit about Vesuvius and the town of Pompeii, because of the expert literature I studied.
However, when I got there, our tour group ran into an old, seasoned archaeologist. I got schooled on what really happened and what the town was all about.
I was also amazed on actually how big Pompeii was. One could not see the other end of town because it passed normal line of sight, horizon vision.
Articles on the net from experts are the abridged version. Actual expertise takes disciplined, formal education and years of expertise in the field of study.
You have neither cosmos, stop puffing yourself up.
You’re pathetic.
“Financial institutions knew they could bundle highly speculative loans and pass them off for a premium.”
Perfectly legal, but what’s your point? The problem was caused by irresponsible loan HOLDERS who failed to make their loan payments under terms the HOME BUYER agreed upon.
The problem was not the result of “packing” loans. They’ve been doing that for decades.
The vast majority of homeowners are responsible. The media is hyped about a very small minority of homeowners.
And many of those in foreclosure are not just the poor – but wealthy Americans with second home loans, retirees with snowbird homes, and so-called beach homes. All are irresponsible. Along with the loan brokers who took the risk – they will all pay the price for their ventures. Unless, of course, the government bails the irresponsible people out.
“The percentage of loans in the foreclosure process at the end of the second quarter was 2.75 percent. For subprime loans, fixed rate foreclosure starts increased 27 basis points to 2.07 percent and subprime ARM foreclosure starts increased 31 basis points to 6.63 percent.”
But it’s the individual homeowners who are causing this mess.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ayvtiaSnvcBk&refer=us
Countrywide Sued by California, Illinois, Over Loans (Update2)
By Karen Gullo and Andrew Harris
June 25 (Bloomberg) — Countrywide Financial Corp., the mortgage lender that lost $2.5 billion amid rising defaults and foreclosures, was sued by California and Illinois for allegedly luring borrowers into risky loans they couldn’t afford.
Countrywide and Chief Executive Officer Angelo Mozilo were named in suits, filed today, claiming the biggest U.S. home lender used deceptive practices such as low “teaser” rates to entice thousands of borrowers into adjustable-rate loans without adequately informing them that payments would balloon in later months.
The two lawsuits were filed the same day Countrywide’s shareholders approved Bank of America Corp.’s $3 billion takeover offer, clearing the way for the lender’s bailout. Washington Governor Christine Gregoire said that state will fine Countrywide $1 million and revoke its license for allegedly discriminating against minority borrowers.
“It’s going to be increasingly expensive for BofA because they are taking on all of these lawsuits,” said David Olson, president of Wholesale Access Mortgage Research, in Columbia, Maryland. Countrywide was “too aggressive and they should be punished.”
Countrywide fell 8 cents to $4.58 in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The stock has slumped 88 percent in the past year. Bank of America fell 7 cents to $26.55.
Countrywide might face legal costs of $1 billion to $2 billion, CreditSights Inc. analyst David Hendler said today in a report.
Civil Fines
California Attorney General Jerry Brown’s office filed its complaint, also naming Countrywide President David Sambol and a division, in state court in Los Angeles. Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan filed in the Cook County court.
“We are fully cooperating with the offices of the California and Illinois attorneys general,” Calabasas, California-based Countrywide said in an e-mailed statement. “We are particularly focused on working with our customers who are having difficulty making their mortgage payments, or foresee difficulty with the future rate resets.”
Scott Silvestri, a Bank of America spokesman, declined to comment.
Both lawsuits seek restitution for homeowners, without being specific. California also seeks civil fines of as much as $2,500 for each violation of state laws banning unfair business practices and false advertising.
Both lawsuits seek restitution for homeowners, without being specific. California also seeks civil fines of as much as $2,500 for each violation of state laws banning unfair business practices and false advertising.
—————-
Ya, Hollyfornia needs all the money they can get being as they are about to go insolvent as a State.
American_Way
Posted September 7, 2008 at 2:02 pm | Permalink
“money to people who have no chance of repaying it”
Sorry Walker, you can try throwin your standards of ethics and moral around it all you want. You cannot blame the businesses for foolish and irresponsible people.
=======================================================
I believe I stated both irresponsible people and business. I think the problem with the neo-con arguments is they just can’t read. Either that, or they have no ethical or moral standards. Which is what I’ve been saying all along: Neo-cons, while preaching high moral standards, have none to speak of when anyone looks deep enough into their BS.
#
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 2:11 pm | Permalink
JM
A students, genearlly, make AWFULL leaders.
I have had attorneys tell me that “A students become college professors, B students become judges, and C students make all the money” —
Besides which, YOU, JM would never be admitted to the Naval Academy, in the first place.
McCain GRADUATED from the Naval Academy, something you could never, ever have done, even in your prime.
And, McCain did this as a self-confessed hell raiser who did not think of anyone but himself, until after Hanoi!
McCain, in other words, graduated without even trying very hard.
=======================================================
Amazing: Wangoboy knows so much about me, he reports I would never have been admitted to the Navel Academy.
Well, a**hole, whether or not I could have gone to any academy I wanted is basically none of your business. I’m not about to argue with a complete idiot over my career record, but I do know you couldn’t carry my jock strap, nor win an argument with me on any subject. Not with your blog record: You’re too addicted to your neo-con mentality, which is no mentality at all.
===================================================
“McCain, in other words, graduated without even trying very hard.”
. . . and you know this for a fact? And will he bring that same mentality to the Presidency, should he be elected? He’s 72 years old, and in my opinion, suffering from symptoms of early Alzheimer. Not a good mix to lead this country.
JM
My “blog history” stacks up rather well against you, IMHO.
“Countrywide’s Many ‘Friends’
By Daniel Golden , Conde Nast Portfolio, June 13, 2008
13 Jun 2008 // Two U.S. senators, two former Cabinet members, and a former ambassador to the United Nations received loans from Countrywide Financial through a little-known program that waived points, lender fees, and company borrowing rules for prominent people.
Senators Christopher Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut and chairman of the Banking Committee, and Kent Conrad, Democrat from North Dakota, chairman of the Budget Committee and a member of the Finance Committee, refinanced properties through Countrywide’s “V.I.P.” program in 2003 and 2004, according to company documents and emails and a former employee familiar with the loans.
Other participants in the V.I.P. program included former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson, former Secretary of Health and Human Services Donna Shalala, and former U.N. ambassador and assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke. Jackson was deputy H.U.D. secretary in the Bush administration when he received the loans in 2003. Shalala, who received two loans in 2002, had by then left the Clinton administration for her current position as president of the University of Miami. She is scheduled to receive a Presidential Medal of Freedom on June 19.
Holbrooke, whose stint as U.N. ambassador ended in 2001, was also working in the private sector when he and his family received V.I.P. loans. He was an adviser to Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.
James Johnson, who had been advising presidential candidate Barack Obama on the selection of a running mate, resigned from the Obama campaign Wednesday after the Wall Street Journal reported that he received Countrywide loans at below-market rates.
Most of the officials belonged to a group of V.I.P. loan recipients known in company documents and emails as “F.O.A.’s”—Friends of Angelo, a reference to Countrywide chief executive Angelo Mozilo. While the V.I.P. program also serviced friends and contacts of other Countrywide executives, the F.O.A.’s made up the biggest subset.
According to company documents and emails, the V.I.P.’s received better deals than those available to ordinary borrowers. Home-loan customers can reduce their interest rates by paying “points”—one point equals 1 percent of the loan’s value. For V.I.P.’s, Countrywide often waived at least half a point and eliminated fees amounting to hundreds of dollars for underwriting, processing and document preparation. If interest rates fell while a V.I.P. loan was pending, Countrywide provided a free “float-down” to the lower rate, eschewing its usual charge of half a point. Some V.I.P.’s who bought or refinanced investment properties were often given the lower interest rate associated with primary residences.”
http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/31982/print
#
Franklin
Posted September 7, 2008 at 3:09 pm | Permalink
JM
My “blog history” stacks up rather well against you, IMHO.
=======================================================
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
cosmos_originally
Posted September 7, 2008 at 2:15 pm | Permalink
okobserver,
So you’re claiming that all of my ‘experts’ are wrong?
Never have I claimed that all of your experts were wrong. Listen closely – I said that the experts that you throw at us all of the time are not always right. Some have actually admitted to being wrong initially and/or were proven wrong.
okobserver,
So are these experts wrong?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/sebelius-takes-on-hurricane-sarah/#comment-418386
This area, which consists mostly of State and Native lands covering about 23,000 square miles (59,500 km2), is maturely explored in the north but only lightly explored in the south.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2005/3043/
In other words, even the US Geological Service doesn’t know the full potential of the entire slope and arctic plains region.
Multi-nic’d Regular posted September 7, 2008 at 3:30 pm
“In other words, even the US Geological Service doesn’t know the full potential of the entire slope and arctic plains region.”
———-
Which is why the U.S. Congress would need to open almost the entire 1.5 MILLION acres — NOT the “little 2,000 acre plot of land” that Palin very falsely claimed.
Thank you multi-nic’d, for pointing out that Palin was wrong.
‘Potential Impacts of Oil and Gas Development on Refuge Resources’
http://arctic.fws.gov/issues1.htm#section4
“While the 1984-85 2-D trails on the Arctic Refuge were 4 miles apart, 3-D trails would be one half mile or less apart. The impact to vegetation and soils on the Refuge would likely be much greater from 3-D seismic surveys than from the 2-D seismic surveys conducted in the 1980s.”
See map at link.
“Neo-cons, while preaching high moral standards”
Me thinks you should keep your aluminum foil tightly wrapped against your skull Walker.
Your labeling of people and stereotyping is not going to improve by taking the wrap off.
#
American_Way
Posted September 7, 2008 at 4:03 pm | Permalink
“Neo-cons, while preaching high moral standards”
Me thinks you should keep your aluminum foil tightly wrapped against your skull Walker.
Your labeling of people and stereotyping is not going to improve by taking the wrap off.
==============================================
I Hardly need “wraps” to post the truth, but, hey, if that’s all you got, go for it.
(chuckle)
I can’t wait till Monday to see what happens to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac dept obligations now that the Feds have taken them over.
My Freddie Mac bonds should now have a credit rating similar to treasuries, but their 5% interest rate return, now being guaranteed, should raise the market value of the securities a bunch as that rate is well above treasuries.
What a grand world we live in sometimes.
Do yourself a favor cosmos.
Get a straw and place it dead center in the middle of a large bowl. Without moving the straw away from the center, you will be able to slant the straw and extract liquid from any area of the bowl.
The same with drilling. One doesn’t need much land to place a slant drill operation.
McCain guru linked to subprime crisis
By LISA LERER | 3/28/08 2:06 PM EST
Text Size:
Phil Gramm and John McCain
Phil Gramm stood by John McCain in his worst days last summer when his campaign went broke and his candidacy was all but written off by political observers.
Photo: AP
The general co-chairman of John McCain’s presidential campaign, former Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas), led the charge in 1999 to repeal a Depression-era banking regulation law that Democrat Barack Obama claimed on Thursday contributed significantly to today’s economic turmoil.
“A regulatory structure set up for banks in the 1930s needed to change because the nature of business had changed,” the Illinois senator running for president said in a New York economic speech. “But by the time [it] was repealed in 1999, the $300 million lobbying effort that drove deregulation was more about facilitating mergers than creating an efficient regulatory framework.”
Gramm’s role in the swift and dramatic recent restructuring of the nation’s investment houses and practices didn’t stop there.
A year after the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed the old regulations, Swiss Bank UBS gobbled up brokerage house Paine Weber. Two years later, Gramm settled in as a vice chairman of UBS’s new investment banking arm.
Later, he became a major player in its government affairs operation. According to federal lobbying disclosure records, Gramm lobbied Congress, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department about banking and mortgage issues in 2005 and 2006.
During those years, the mortgage industry pressed Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages.
For his work, Gramm and two other lobbyists collected $750,000 in fees from UBS’s American subsidiary. In the past year, UBS has written down more than $18 billion in exposure to subprime loans and other risky securities and is considering cutting as many as 8,000 jobs.
Gramm did not respond to an e-mail and was unavailable for comment, according to a UBS spokesman. The bank has no official position on the subprime crisis, the spokesman said, but is a member of the Financial Services Roundtable and other industry groups that are actively lobbying Congress on the issue.
Now, some housing experts and economists see Gramm’s thinking in the recent housing proposal from McCain, the Republican Party’s presumed presidential nominee. Gramm is often a surrogate for the Arizona senator, particularly in meetings focused on the economy. And McCain has hinted he’d consider the former Texas senator for Treasury secretary in a McCain administration.
McCain delivered an economic speech Tuesday that had Gramm’s input, but it was written by domestic policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin.
“Sen. Gramm was one of dozens of folks whom Sen. McCain has consulted on the housing issue, including Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman from eBay,” said McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers. “They’ve been friends for years, and he values Sen. Gramm’s advice.”
In the speech, McCain rejected the type of aggressive government intervention in the economic meltdown that has been embraced by his Democratic opponents — and even some Bush advisers.
“I have always been committed to the principle that it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers,” McCain said. “Government assistance to the banking system should be based solely on preventing systemic risk that would endanger the entire financial system and the economy.”
McCain’s campaign later clarified that he would support programs for “deserving” homeowners and reforms that would improve transparency and accountability in capital markets.
Andrew Jakabovics, a housing expert at the liberal Center for American Progress, said McCain’s interpretation of the crisis puts little blame on investment banks for their role in packaging the subprime loans into dangerously complex and ultimately hard-to-value financial instruments.
“I’d characterize this as the deux ex machina theory of financial products,” Jakabovics said. “He views this as a market problem that manifests at the local level as housing, meaning he’s more likely to argue in favor of these guys when they argue for deregulation.”
Wall Street firms are increasingly under scrutiny for contributing to the economic downturn by packaging and selling risky mortgage securities. When the home loans tied to the mortgages defaulted, investors and the banks lost billions, contributing to a widespread credit crunch.
“I think [McCain’s] attitude is the market can basically handle this and government doesn’t need to be heavily involved,” said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard and Poor’s.
McCain and Gramm have a long political history. The two became close when they worked together as senators to defeat Hillary Rodham Clinton’s 1993 health care plan, holding meetings at hospitals and clinics across the country.
In 1996, McCain was national chairman of Gramm’s unsuccessful presidential bid.
In 2000, the duo had a rare parting when Gramm backed his home-state governor, George W. Bush, for president instead of McCain. But they’ve reunited in this presidential race.
Gramm stood by his former Senate colleague in his worst days last summer when his campaign went broke and his candidacy was all but written off by political observers.
Gramm, who had joined the campaign in March as a domestic policy adviser, was among those who helped cut staff and shrink the budgets. He traveled with McCain in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina and stumped for him in Georgia.
Staff writer Victoria McGrane contributed to this story.
more annie moose S C R O L L O V E R posting…
Oh you will always find a few bad apples. In the mortgage industry, like the number of deliquient subprime mortgages (very few Americans), you also have a few politicians involved as well:
“Saundra McFadden-Weaver (D) was convicted by a federal jury in Kansas City, Missouri, of conspiracy and wire fraud for her role in a $400,000 mortgage fraud scheme.
As previously reported by Mortgage Fraud Blog, The indictment alleges that McFadden-Weaver, Emmanuel Kind and Ricky Hamilton participated in a conspiracy to defraud mortgage lenders. The co-defendants agreed that McFadden-Weaver would obtain a loan to purchase a home at 301 S.E. Hackamore, Lee’s Summit, Missouri, where Kind would reside and pay the mortgage and other expenses. McFadden-Weaver sought to obtain loans in excess of the listed sale price of the property in order to use the excess funds to rehabilitate a property at 2518 Benton Blvd., Kansas City, Missouri.
Hamilton agreed to broker the loan for McFadden-Weaver knowing that she did not intend to live in the Lee’s Summit residence and would have no responsibility for the property.
As part of the conspiracy, co-conspirators prepared material false and fraudulent and misleading loan applications and documents in support of the loan applications,…”
hehehe and enron too!
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS101620+23-Jun-2008+PRN20080623
As the Houston Chronicle reported yesterday, Campaign Co-Chair Phil Gramm
was a key figure in the radical deregulatory schemes that helped create both
the gas price crisis and the mortgage meltdown. By forcing the “Enron
Loophole” into legislation in the middle of the night, Senator Gramm helped
open oil and gas markets to the speculators John McCain now claims to oppose.
Despite his role in creating both of these challenges, McCain reportedly
called Gramm “the smartest economist and political strategist he knows.”
[Houston Chronicle, 6/22/08]
The site also examines the role of McCain Victory 2008 Chair and former
Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, who just yesterday went on CBS’s Face the
Nation and misrepresented Senator McCain’s decision to adopt President Bush’s
support for offshore oil drilling and his repeated votes against incentives
for renewable energy. Fiorina has herself bizarrely equated the mortgage
crisis to a “product recall” and even defended the outsourcing of American
jobs by calling it “right-shoring.” Former Congressional Budget Office
director Doug Holtz-Eakin has helped shape and defend John McCain’s reckless
borrow and spend tax policies, which will saddle our economy in trillions of
dollars in new debt. Holtz-Eakin has repeatedly refused to say how John McCain
intends to pay for his plan to make the Bush tax cuts he once opposed
permanent, pay for the war in Iraq and add new irresponsible tax cuts without
adding trillions of new debt.
Annie
Enron gave huge amounts of money to very liberal causes.
Enron was a NATURAL GAS company, and Enron executives helped invent the “carbon credit” scheme.
Enron lobbied against coal and other forms of energy.
Enron had connections to Al Gore:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-horner042302.asp
—–
Now, onto Mortage issues:
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Countrywide have ALL had high powered DEMOCRATS on the payroll.
Many high profile Democrats have gotten sweetheart loans, through Countrywide.
Joe Biden (as well as many other Democrats) voted to repeal the Glass Steagal seperations of Wall Street and the mortgage industry.
President Bill Clinton signed that legislation, which repealed Glass Steagal.
You really are getting more and more childish with each post.
Mistakes were CERTAINLY made — But the more you try to make these issues partisan talking points, the more your side will be hurt by the backfire of your ignorant attacks.
This is a VERY small taste of what is comming, where Obama’s finances and support are concerned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNfRb87dtY4&feature=related
Please note, also, Pastor Wright, and Father Pfleiger, got “Faith Based” earmarks, through Obama.
Also, Michelle Obama got a HUGE raise, after Obama secured an earmark, of Federal Funds, for Michells hospital.
Oh you will always find a few bad apples.
AmWay trots out the “bad apples” argument.
Trouble is, there are 7000 foreclosures A DAY in the US.
The CONs want us to believe this is just a few “bad apples.”
Because it couldn’t be a systematic failure encouraged by government . . .
Boxlock
Posted September 7, 2008 at 4:07 pm | Permalink
I can’t wait till Monday to see what happens to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac dept obligations now that the Feds have taken them over.
My Freddie Mac bonds should now have a credit rating similar to treasuries, but their 5% interest rate return, now being guaranteed, should raise the market value of the securities a bunch as that rate is well above treasuries.
What a grand world we live in sometimes.
=========================================
I hope your investments in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac go belly up!! And you lose it ALL… THEN you might understand how others feel when they lose it all — and by nothing they have done themselves…
I think thats the only way some of you bigoted lunatics will ever learn reality!!
just found this juicy morsel
snip
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9577
“‘Defendants viewed borrowers as nothing more than the means for producing more loans, originating loans with little or no regard to borrowers’ long-term ability to afford them and to sustain homeownership’ . . .
“The company routinely . . . ‘turned a blind eye’ to deceptive practices by brokers and its own loan agents despite ‘numerous complaints from borrowers claiming that they did not understand their loan terms.’
“. . . Underwriters who confirmed information on mortgage applications were ‘under intense pressure . . . to process 60 to 70 loans per day, making careful consideration of borrowers’ financial circumstances and the suitability of the loan product for them nearly impossible.’
“‘Countrywide’s high-pressure sales environment and compensation system encouraged serial refinancing of Countrywide loans.’”7
Similar suits against Countrywide and its CEO have been filed by the states of Illinois and Florida. These suits seek not only damages but rescission of the loans, creating a potential nightmare for the banks.
An Avalanche of Class Actions?
Massive class action lawsuits by defrauded borrowers may also be in the works. In a 2007 ruling in Wisconsin that is now on appeal, U.S. District Judge Lynn Adelman held that Chevy Chase Bank had violated the Truth in Lending Act by hiding the terms of an adjustable rate loan, and that thousands of other Chevy Chase borrowers could join the plaintiffs in a class action on that ground. According to a June 30, 2008 report in Reuters:
“The judge transformed the case from a run-of-the-mill class action to a potential nightmare for the U.S. banking industry by also finding that the borrowers could force the bank to cancel, or rescind, their loans. That decision was stayed pending an appeal to the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which is expected to rule any day.
“The idea of canceling tainted loans to stem a tide of foreclosures has caught hold in other quarters; a lawsuit filed last week by the Illinois attorney general asks a court to rescind or reform Countrywide Financial mortgages originated under ‘unfair or deceptive practices.’
“. . . The mortgage banking industry already faces pressure from state and federal regulators, who have accused banks of lowering underwriting standards and forcing some borrowers, through fraud, into costly adjustable loans that the banks later bundled and sold as high-interest investment vehicles.”
The Truth in Lending Act (TILA) is a 1968 federal law designed to protect consumers against lending fraud by requiring clear disclosure of loan terms and costs. It lets consumers seek rescission or termination of a loan and the return of all interest and fees when a lender is found to be in violation. The beauty of the statute, says California bankruptcy attorney Cathy Moran, is that it provides for strict liability: the aggrieved borrowers don’t have to prove they were personally defrauded or misled, or that they had actual damages. Just the fact that the disclosures were defective gives them the right to rescind and deprives the lenders of interest. In Moran’s small sample, at least half of the loans reviewed contained TILA violations.8 If class actions are found to be available for rescission of loans based on fraud in the disclosure process, the result could be a flood of class suits against banks all over the country.9
Shifting the Loss Back to the Banks
Rescission may be a remedy available not only for borrowers but for MBS investors. Many loan sale contracts provide by their terms that lenders must take back loans that default unusually quickly or that contain mistakes or fraud. An avalanche of rescissions could be catastrophic for the banks. Banks were moving loans off their books and selling them to investors in order to allow many more loans to be made than would otherwise have been allowed under banking regulations. The banking rules are complex, but for every dollar of shareholder capital a bank has on its balance sheet, it is supposed to be limited to about $10 in loans. The problem for the banks is that when the process is reversed, the 10 to 1 rule can work the other way: taking a dollar of bad debt back on a bank’s books can reduce its lending ability by a factor of 10. As explained in a BBC News story citing Prof. Nouriel Roubini for authority:
“[S]ecuritisation was key to helping banks avoid the regulators’ 10:1 rule. To make their risky loans appear attractive to buyers, banks used complex financial engineering to repackage them so they looked super-safe and paid returns well above what equivalent super-safe investments offered. Banks even found ways to get loans off their balance sheets without selling them at all. They devised bizarre new financial entities – called Special Investment Vehicles or SIVs – in which loans could be held technically and legally off balance sheet, out of sight, and beyond the scope of regulators’ rules. So, once again, SIVs made room on balance sheets for banks to go on lending.
“Banks had got round regulators’ rules by selling off their risky loans, but because so many of the securitised loans were bought by other banks, the losses were still inside the banking system. Loans held in SIVs were technically off banks’ balance sheets, but when the value of the loans inside SIVs started to collapse, the banks which set them up found that they were still responsible for them. So losses from investments which might have appeared outside the scope of the regulators’ 10:1 rule, suddenly started turning up on bank balance sheets. . . . The problem now facing many of the biggest lenders is that when losses appear on banks’ balance sheets, the regulator’s 10:1 rule comes back into play because losses reduce a banks’ shareholder capital. ‘If you have a $200bn loss, that reduced your capital by $200bn, you have to reduce your lending by 10 times as much,’ [Prof. Roubini] explains. ‘So you could have a reduction of total credit to the economy of two trillion dollars.’”10
#
Chas
Posted September 7, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Permalink
Boxlock
Posted September 7, 2008 at 4:07 pm | Permalink
I can’t wait till Monday to see what happens to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac dept obligations now that the Feds have taken them over.
My Freddie Mac bonds should now have a credit rating similar to treasuries, but their 5% interest rate return, now being guaranteed, should raise the market value of the securities a bunch as that rate is well above treasuries.
What a grand world we live in sometimes.
=========================================
I hope your investments in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac go belly up!! And you lose it ALL… THEN you might understand how others feel when they lose it all — and by nothing they have done themselves…
I think thats the only way some of you bigoted lunatics will ever learn reality!!
———————
Hey Chas! You still wearing support stockings for those varicose veins?
Multi-nic’d Regular posted September 7, 2008 at 4:09 pm
“Do yourself a favor cosmos.
…”
——–
Do YOURSELF a favor multi-nic’d. . . learn about the limitations of directional drilling.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/09/open-thread-97-2/#comment-419647
And also the post later at 6:05 pm on same thread.
Chas,
I am truly sorry for you, I really am, for whatever reason you feel you need to resent anyone who receives a blessing. I would think as a ‘minister’, or whatever you call yourself, you would rejoice in someone’s good fortune.
I was concerned that the problems with Freddie Mac may effect the value of my investment in their dept securities. As it turns our, not without considerable risk, I am now safe in my investment, and may in fact profit from it.
You should rejoice, as I am rejoicing. Or is that NOT your understanding of a Christian nature.
Chas, whatever is the cause of your resentment, and even hate, for others that are succeeding I hope, and I will try to pray, that you receive equal blessing. More important, I pray that you as a so self-called minister of the WORD of GOD can resolve your bitterness for others, that you either don’t agree with or who you feel have it ‘better then you’.
Come on Chas, rejoice with me, my investments are now safe, and without doubt increased in value.
If the Feds took over your investment, and you make a Profit??? Then you are a total liar when it comes to your claims about Universal Health Care, and Government management…
But, if the Feds took over Freedi Mac, and Fannie Mae, and you think you are coming out on the profit end, they YOU sir/ma’am, are the delusional one…
As I said, I HOPE you lose your shirt, so you will maybe understand how others feel when they lose everything, and not of their own doing….
Chas,
Here’s a little lesson in the markets.
My bonds have an interest rate of 5%, I paid par for them.
Treasuries have an interest rate this morning of:
2-Year 100.000 2.37
10-Year 102.156 3.74
30-Year 103.172 4.31
My ‘Freddies’, because of the Feds taking control, now have the Feds guaranteeing the security of those bonds, like Treasuries, but my bonds still carry the 5% return rate. So, they are now worth more than par!!! I will have to wait through the day at least to see what the effect will be but Bloomburg says the price of 10 Treasurie bonds is 102.156 and that is for lower interest rate bonds than mine.
The world stock markets reacted very very enthusiastically over night to this takeover and the futures this morning for the US is soaring.
It should be a great day Chas….rejoice.
The only big downside is inflation as the Feds crank up the printing presses for the bailout.
That should cause gold/silver to start climbing again….now would be a good time to buy Chas.
That’s your tip of the day…good buddy! Ha.
Foreign countries will be sending their dollars to other countries paying higher interest rates.
“Foreclosures up but lower than national rates”
“Flooding is bad in Kansas, but not nearly as bad as in New Orleans in 2006″
I feel so much better…