“Without the extraordinary contribution of liberals — from the mightiest presidents to the most unheralded protesters and organizers — the United States would be a much, much worse place than it is today,” columnist Bob Herbert argued. He then outlined some of these contributions, including civil rights, women’s rights, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, legal services and product, food and workplace safety laws. “It would take volumes to adequately cover the enhancements to the quality of American lives and the greatness of American society that have been wrought by people whose politics were unabashedly liberal,” Herbert wrote. “It is a track record that deserves to be celebrated, not ridiculed or scorned.”
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63 Comments
Agreed. It seems that the terms liberal and conservative have been extremely redefined by talk radio in order to gain listeners. Divide and Conquer. Divide the people by encouraging them to think each other are enemies.
Until we get over the lib vs con thing and start thinking of ourselves as Americans who don’t happen to agree on everything this country will at best stagnate and at worse fall apart
#
Freebird1971
Posted September 13, 2008 at 6:24 am | Permalink
Until we get over the lib vs con thing and start thinking of ourselves as Americans who don’t happen to agree on everything this country will at best stagnate and at worse fall apart
========================================================
I couldn’t agree more. It’s the fringe groups of both parties driving the show, though. I suppose I’m partly to blame for beeyatch slapping the fringe right every time they pop up with lies and distortions.
If both sides would refrain from compounding, what really amount to, lies and gaffes, then real dialogue might open up. I have my doubts, though.
“All for liberals, stand up and holler”
Do what ya have to do to get through the day I guess.
If that’s self-gratuitousness self-praise then have at it.
Boring!
As much as I hate to admit it, we need both sides in the political conversation. What we don’t need is the aggressive hatred you see poisoning the process.
On the other hand, I notice that liberals are running from that name in favor of “progressive”. Not so proud?
Yes the concern and sympathy liberal have been showing for a mother who didn’t kill her baby with down syndrome is overwhelming. Just Look at the compassion shown Palin.
Yes liberals are so full of love.
Excuse me for asking, but exactly where and when have these Liberals mocked the mother for having a Downs syndrome child? Personally, I give her my full support for having the child, and hope the kid does wonderful in life. So feel free to link some of these comments you think are on WEblog.
Kandisu, Thanks for helping make my point, Your attitude of I’m right and if you disagree with me you are wrong is a prime example of what is wrong with this country. Both sides need to take their blinders off and take a good look around and se what lib vs con is doing to this country
Freebird…you are spot on (as usual!) I believe Ben Franklin once said something to the effect for democracy to survive, both sides must respect each other enough to compromise.
Unfortunately, I almost never see any respect in this blog..with insults, personal attacks, and claims of “bush whore” substituting for reason.
#
JMWalker
Posted September 13, 2008 at 9:09 am | Permalink
Excuse me for asking, but exactly where and when have these Liberals mocked the mother for having a Downs syndrome child? Personally, I give her my full support for having the child, and hope the kid does wonderful in life. So feel free to link some of these comments you think are on WEblog.
———————
Sobered up now?
You must be freaking blind if you have not seen the comments by the Crapn, MaggotPunk, MonkeyHock, Phantom/Beber and Bluejay.
Give everyone a break and take your blinders off.
Reading the insults(of which I have been guilty of),the refusal to even entertain ideas that you may not agree with, makes me wonder that if things don’t change what kind of country is my grandson going to grow up in
#
Regular
Posted September 13, 2008 at 9:28 am | Permalink
Sobered up now?
You must be freaking blind if you have not seen the comments by the Crapn, MaggotPunk, MonkeyHock, Phantom/Beber and Bluejay.
Give everyone a break and take your blinders off.
=======================================================
I ask for specific links to anyone on this blog slamming Palin for having a Downs syndrome child. If you can link them, I will soundly denounce all of them. But first, I would like for either you or Kandisue to link them here, as I don’t recall anyone slamming her for having the child.
So give yourselves a break, and link them. Then, and only then, will we know if I have blinders on.
Ahhh, free…you have nothing to worry about regarding your “insults”…you have never approached the vulgarity and disgusting baseness demonstrated here by some of the more childish. A prime example is the childish vulgar one who responds to anyone who disagrees by calling them “bush whores” as if that solves anything.
But, I do agree with you that the future of our country is troublesome when people like that are expressing themselves publicly (albeit anonymously) in vulgar terms that would make a sailor blush.
Without liberalism, this country would be even worse than it is.
And quite frankly?
Under conservative rule these last 25 years, American has grown into a very nasty place.
There ARE places where total free market conservatism is in place. Learn about them in Thomas Frank’s book “The Wrecking Crew how Conservatives Rule”
Or you could google info on the island nation of Saipan.
Yes
Like William Ayers, who helped launch Obama’s political career, and was once Obama’s boss!
Ayers bombed the Pentagon and several other buildings.
Like Tony Rezco, the convicted slum lord. Obama was a “Community Organizer” yet Obama represented Rezco, and took campaing money from Rezco, and Rezco helped Obama buy his house! Rezco! — a man who ripped off the government and cheated his renters.
Like Louis Farrakhan and Jeremiah Wright, friends of Obama.
And Franklin jumps in with his out-of-context crap.
Question: Man, don’t you ever feel a little bit of remorse at what you post sometimes?
Whew!
Dennis
Social Security and Medicare are the two largest unfunded programs in Government today.
How successful is a Government program that is underfunded by $70 Trillion over the next 50 years?
Yeah the world can’t live without the libs!
(Keep saying that, maybe you’ll even believe it yourself someday.)
Yellow dog
It is COMPLETELY in context
Obama is more than just a liberal.
Obama is a radical, trained by Marxists and very sympathetic to Islamic Jihadists.
Get business OUT of government.
Get government INTO business.
Be a citizen, not a shareholder.
Get government INTO business??? surely you are joking???? Force otherwise successful industry into following government practices? Low bid for everything, regardless of quality? Government boards/commissions that continue to exist long after their function has ended? Lowest productivity of any measurable group in the country?
The last thing we need is more government in business.
I for one am ready to bury the hatchet with the liberals and work together to fight our real enemies and move this Country forward. There’s just a few things we have to get settled first.
1) Restore a culture of life in this nation. Overturn Roe vs Wade and let the abortion question go back to the fifty states. Yeah I know it would be messy, but thats how the founders intended for such things to be handled.
2) Stop trying to redefine and destroy the Second Amendment. Unfettered gun ownership by private citizens is essential to maintaining freedom in this Country. I refuse to argue gun rights on any other basis.
3) Stop giving away our sovereignty through international treaties and free trade agreements. Stop looking to foreign courts for guidance in questions of United States jurisprudence. Stop trying to gain through judicial fiat what you can’t accomplish through the legislative process.
4) Restore this nation to the “melting pot” it used to be that encouraged immigrants to become Americans over time while retaining what was good about their native culture. Forget about this multicultural crap that says don’t assimilate, just take everything this Country has to offer while giving nothing back until you turn it into as big a cesspool as the place you left behind.
5) Return Jesus Christ and the Christian faith to their rightful place as the cornerstone of this grand republic. I’m not calling for a Theocracy, just that Christ and Christians be given the same “tolerance” that is demanded for all other beliefs and lifestyles.
6) Stop trying to stifle all dissent to the “sacred cows” of manmade global warming, evolution, socialism and the gay agenda. Quit trying to restore your long lost media monopoly and the ability to control public opinion with the “Fairness Doctrine” and “Hate Crime Laws”.
7) Recognize that peace, freedom, and security comes through strength, and military preparedness, not treaties and coddling despots. Diplomacy only works when backed up by a strong and resolute people.
8) Acknowledge that America for over two hundred years has been a shining beacon for the rest of the World and that even with all our warts and blemishes, we are still the best and greatest hope for mankind until our Lord returns.
If we can accomplish the things I have listed, then our Nation can become strong and united again. Otherwise, we will continue to waste our time and energy fighting each other, while the real enemies continue to steal our wealth and our heritage and subjugate us into their one world nightmare.
How ironic to see just how racist, bigoted and sexist black people really are. Over 95% of blacks are going to vote for obama??? Wow. He could lead them off a 200 foot cliff and they would all follow just because he is half-black? And, by the way, his darker skin tone is about all he has in common with the majority of African-Americans. Sad.
“I for one am ready to bury the hatchet with the liberals…”
From the words that follow, it is clear you want to “bury the hatchet” IN liberals.
And pretty much anyone else that is not you.
“Sit down, shut up, and do as I say!” is no move toward diplomacy. It must and will be opposed.
Liberals are another word for communisim. If you want a country that is your mother and father then move to Cuba or somewhere similar.
If you take the time to read Atlas Shrugged you would see that what is happening now is exactly what killed free enterprise.
Free enterprise is what makes this country great. Freedom of speech makes this country great.
For those of you that speak ill all the time you would find in most countries they would shut you done. You may even be jailed for long periods of time.
Freedom is not free and should not be taken for granted.
Without liberalism; cowards and commies, and the other dregs of society would have nowhere to hide…
Sit down, shut up, and do as I say!” is no move toward diplomacy Says BJ.
Do you not see or do you not care that this is the very attitude from both sides that is tearing this country apart?
BlueJay
Without liberalism, this country would be even worse than it is.
And quite frankly?
__________________________________________
Exactly what is it about the truth that frightens you so much?
Have you forgotten Carter and how could liberals forget the head liar Bill Clinton?
The Supreme Court is liberal and has done a tremendous amount of damage to this country in the last 35 years.
In the last 30 years we have had 8 years of conservative leadership. Bush is more liberal that conservative.
Since you seem to like liberalism so much tell us what it has accomplished.
Please be specific.
You don’t have to mention pornorgraphy on the internet or public libraries or television.
“The Supreme Court is liberal and has done a tremendous amount of damage to this country in the last 35 years.”
“Since you seem to like liberalism so much tell us what it has accomplished.”
You’ve made an assertion, and THEN asked a question.
I’ll require you to flesh out the “damage” before I waste my time on you.
BJ says: From the words that follow, it is clear you want to “bury the hatchet” IN liberals.
Would you care to take issue specifically with anything I said in my mini manifesto, or are you just going to go with your ad hominem attacks?
I take issue with your entire post except for point 4 Chris.
You have basically said that you can reach agreement with people who disagree with you.
Provided they abandon everything they believe in.
There is no ad hominem in telling you “No thanks.”
“5) Return Jesus Christ and the Christian faith to their rightful place as the cornerstone of this grand republic. I’m not calling for a Theocracy, just that Christ and Christians be given the same “tolerance” that is demanded for all other beliefs and lifestyles.”
Internally incosistent. On the one hand you want primacy for your religion (cornerstone) while then claiming that is simply the same as for other beliefs.
Would you then say that Judaism, Islam, Hindu, etc should also be ‘cornerstone’?
bth
Posted September 13, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Would you then say that Judaism, Islam, Hindu, etc should also be ‘cornerstone’?
———————————————————
Our constitution states:
The federal government shall make no law establishing a religion or exercising the free expression thereof.
Therefore if someone wants to practice Judaism, Islam, Hindu, etc. then they should have that right but that right should also be for those who want to be Christians.
For those liberals out there that think they are so tolerant, this is where YOU FAIL!! You don’t mind it when schools allow a child who is Islamic to go and pray 3 times during the school day but you become offended when a child who is a Christian might want to pray at school too.
You scream separation of church and state but you still allow other religions to practice in the government schools. Then of course your latest attempt by the democratic party where Steve Cohen said in Congress that Jesus was a community organizer. It sounds like to me that you all just want to use Jesus just to benefit yourself, but you are totally against Christians.
You really need to make up your mind. When you refer to religion, tolerance, freedom of speech it needs to be for everyone. When you stop allowing someone those same rights, then you are no longer as tolerant as you like to claim you are.
Quite a liberal re-writing of history there. (Pun intended.) Civil rights laws were almost derailed because of Democrats during the 60’s. It was Democrats that attempted to keep ‘blacks in their place’ and it was Democrats that enacted most of the Jim Crow laws.
However it was a Republican President that enacted the Emancipation Proclamation. It was Republicans that made the deciding votes on civil right legislation. It was a die hard Republican state, Wyoming, that gave women the first right to vote statewide.
I’ll gladly give liberals the credit for Medicare and Medicaid, both fine examples of why the government should not be in the health care business. As for Social Insecurity, I’ll also gladly give the Democrats credit for that as well. And the inability to reform any of these programs to work for the American people rather than drain their pocketbooks, I’ll gladly give that credit again to the liberal Democrats.
The fact that Brownlee would republish portions of an article attributing Civil Rights laws to Democrats when the facts are exactly the opposite shows either sheer desperation to get Democrats elected or sheer ignorance of history. I don’t know which is worse.
#
bth
Posted September 13, 2008 at 12:14 pm | Permalink
“5) Return Jesus Christ and the Christian faith to their rightful place as the cornerstone of this grand republic. I’m not calling for a Theocracy, just that Christ and Christians be given the same “tolerance” that is demanded for all other beliefs and lifestyles.”
Internally incosistent. On the one hand you want primacy for your religion (cornerstone) while then claiming that is simply the same as for other beliefs.
Would you then say that Judaism, Islam, Hindu, etc should also be ‘cornerstone’?
——————————-
There weren’t that many Jews, Muslims or Hindus around in the colonies when the Constitution was written. :D
More Jews than Muslims and they were hardly influential in anything but their own mercantilism.
Oh my, “Chrisfrommactown” –
I don’t always agree with “BlueJay,” but it sure seems like you’d like to “bury the hatchet” in our backs. (How is it all you CONs claim to “love America” but so vehemently express your hate for half of us?)
But I’m a Liberal and tend to be the conciliatory sort. I try to meet other opinions halfway (in spite of the fact most CONs are under the delusion of being somewhere near the mainstream.
But let me respond to your olive branches…
“1) Restore a culture of life in this nation.”
Straw man rhetoric. Last I checked, most people I’ve come across pretty much prefer life to death. I don’t see how, with any rational reading, you can show how “a culture of life” needs restoration.
Unless you’re talking about capital punishment, unprovoked unilateral preemptive war against people who pose no threat to Americans… until we show up to kill them.
Some “culture of life” that is! Product of George WMD Bush and the CONs.
“2) Stop trying to redefine and destroy the Second Amendment. Unfettered gun ownership by private citizens is essential to maintaining freedom in this Country. I refuse to argue gun rights on any other basis.”
I’m on record as favoring handgun ownership for convicts in prison. I mean, “what part of ‘SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED’ do you not understand?
Unless, of course, there’s some justification for “infringement” of 2nd Amendment rights.
That’s not “trying to destroy the Second Amendment.” Or if it is, the NRA and other gun advocates have sure seemed to approve a lot of “infringements.” You worked for a *PERMIT* to carry a concealed weapon?! A permit issued by the government?!
The NRA worked hard for infringement. Can’t blame us liberals for that.
“3) Stop giving away our sovereignty through international treaties and free trade agreements. Stop looking to foreign courts for guidance in questions of United States jurisprudence. Stop trying to gain through judicial fiat what you can’t accomplish through the legislative process.”
Well, that’s three things, “Chrisfrommactown.”
Treaties and their role in this government are pretty specifically spelled out in the Constitution of the United States of America.
I’m not sure the difference between “looking at foreign judicial decisions ‘for guidance’ differs from looking for insight. Don’t we Americans tend to expect others to live up to our ideals (if not our example)?
As for “judicial fiat,” I’m reminded of Bush v. Gore, December 2000. Yeah, we should stop abuses like that.
Your suggestion to achieve that end?
“4) Restore this nation to the “melting pot” it used to be that encouraged immigrants to become Americans over time while retaining what was good about their native culture. Forget about this multicultural crap that says don’t assimilate, just take everything this Country has to offer while giving nothing back until you turn it into as big a cesspool as the place you left behind.”
You nostalgia-for-stuff-that-never-happened sometimes just overwhelms me. Signs outside of restaurants “No Dogs or Irishmen Allowed” was part of your “melting pot” fantasy world that never existed in America.
There’s probably no better example of “assimilation” than two people creating a baby together, but it’s CONs who tend to revert to “half-breed” rhetoric about people such as Barack Obama.
So which way would you have it, “Chrisfrommactown?”
“5) Return Jesus Christ and the Christian faith to their rightful place as the cornerstone of this grand republic. I’m not calling for a Theocracy, just that Christ and Christians be given the same “tolerance” that is demanded for all other beliefs and lifestyles.”
Which is the most dominant faith in the United States? How purported “christians” can feel themselves somehow oppressed astounds me.
And which version of “the Christian faith” are we supposed to “return to?” Catholicism? The Assemblies of God? The Full-Tilt-Boogie-Tabernacle-of-the-Gooey-Death-and -Discount-House-of-Salvation? The Mormons?
The government the Founding Fathers established specifically spelled out that religion isn’t supposed to enter into how government works. Doesn’t mean religious people can’t get involved.
In pursuit of this constitutional American experiment, neither Jesus nor Muhammad nor the Buddha nor Moses nor Bonzo the Sun God gets “dibs.”
It’s as if I could put together a voting majority of Episcopalians (Ha!) and passed a law forcing Baptists to use real wine instead of grape juice during Communion. How do you think that might play out?
“6) Stop trying to stifle all dissent to the “sacred cows” of manmade global warming, evolution, socialism and the gay agenda. Quit trying to restore your long lost media monopoly and the ability to control public opinion with the “Fairness Doctrine” and “Hate Crime Laws”.”
Our “long-lost media monopoly?” Well, at least you admit that any “liberal dominance” of the media is “long-lost” and a myth when wing-nut CONs whine about it.
As for “trying to stifle all dissent,” hell yes! I’d just as soon all you CONs would shut up and think about things for a moment. And plenty of the CONs on this forum have expressed their passionate hope that I stop posting here.
And you couldn’t help yourself, could you, “Chrisfrommactown?” You had to include “the Gay Agenda.”
Just how does “the Gay Agenda” interfere with your life — or anybody’s, really — if you’re not gay?
“7) Recognize that peace, freedom, and security comes through strength, and military preparedness, not treaties and coddling despots. Diplomacy only works when backed up by a strong and resolute people.”
You know (or should) as well as I do that the United States has propped up any number of “despots,” and sometimes it was in the interest of “peace, freedom, and security.”
LBJ used to bemoan the fact that, “Yes, he’s a sonofabitch, but he’s OUR sonofabitch.” There was a time with our “peace, freedom, and security” depended on alliance with (for example) Stalin. (It was World War II. It was in the papers.)
“8) Acknowledge that America for over two hundred years has been a shining beacon for the rest of the World and that even with all our warts and blemishes, we are still the best and greatest hope for mankind until our Lord returns.”
“Your” Lord, anyway. But He sure seems to be taking His time. Perhaps He’s decided we’re not worth it. Yet.
As for the “shining beacon,” we Americans certainly talk a good game. We don’t always live up to our ideals.
“If we can accomplish the things I have listed, then our Nation can become strong and united again. Otherwise, we will continue to waste our time and energy fighting each other, while the real enemies continue to steal our wealth and our heritage and subjugate us into their one world nightmare.”
And here we totally agree.
If everyone in the world would simply agree with ME, all our problems would be over.
But that ain’t gonna happen.
And your little manifesto reveals so much naivety and/or ideological blinders — I mean, really. How does what you call the Gay Agenda really affect you? I mean, really! — as to make me want to go full “BlueJay” on your ass.
Do you really think this way?
Have you ever really thought about it? About the consequences and ramifications of your little compartmentalized nuggets of insular “wisdom” contradict you at every turn?
“There weren’t that many Jews, Muslims or Hindus around in the colonies when the Constitution was written. :D”
Maybe not but my ancestors were here. I should have included animists in my list. My point remains unchanged: Why should one particular foreign religion be favored as ‘cornerstone’ over others – either foreign or native.
Or, if we DO have to have a European import religion as cornerstone how about this one?:
“The Deist Roots of the United States of America
by Robert L. Johnson
What is it that filled the souls of many of America’s founders with such passionate altruism that they were willing to risk everything they had, including their families, careers, and very lives, for an ideal? Was it their strong convictions in the teachings of Christianity and the Bible? Or was it something else?
DEISM
People like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were avid readers of the great philosophers of the European Enlightenment. They treasured the ideas found in the works of such thinkers as Descartes, Voltaire, Bacon and Locke.
One of the cornerstone ideas of the Enlightenment was to give every idea and assumption the test of reason. When they applied reason to religion they found it necessary to strip it of revelation and they ended up with Deism. Deism is belief in God based on reason and nature. The differing alleged revelations of the various revealed religions are conspicuously absent from Deism. It is a natural religion as opposed to a revealed religion such as Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.
Deism first started to evolve when Edward Herbert of England wrote a book called Of Truth in 1624. His book took the position that belief in God can be based on reason, not just revelation.”
http://www.deism.com/deistamerica.htm
“Just how does “the Gay Agenda” interfere with your life — or anybody’s, really — if you’re not gay?”
Monkeyhawk – didn’t you get the memo? According to the radical right the “Gay Agenda” will require people like me to get divorced from my wife and marry a guy. Otherwise how could they possibly be “forcing gay marriage” on us?
Oh – I forgot. Priests and ministers will be forced at gunpoint to perform the ceremonies.
What rights heterosexuals have that gays don’t have?
“bth” asks –
“Monkeyhawk – didn’t you get the memo? According to the radical right the “Gay Agenda” will require people like me to get divorced from my wife and marry a guy. Otherwise how could they possibly be “forcing gay marriage” on us?”
Well, I don’t know anything about your wife but your “Gay Agenda”-forced marriage to a guy might improve the window-treatments in your living room.
I mean, that’s her idea of a cornice?
;^)
biased:
none.
“biased1
Posted September 13, 2008 at 3:04 pm | Permalink
What rights heterosexuals have that gays don’t have?’
They can enter into a state-recognized ‘union’ that carries with it a basket of legal and financial protections. Although a wealthy person might be able to fashion something similar after paying huge legal fees it is NOT equally available to gay couples.
Biassed,
Another right that heterosexuals have that gay people don’t is the right to walk down the street hand in hand with their true love without having to worry about a christian street-gang coming after them with baseball bats and tire irons.
There is no such thing as a “christian street-gang” that would do physical harm to them.
But Christians would be truthful calling it what it is, detestable!
Ben
There was only one person at the Constitutional Convention who did not tith to at least one Christian Church.
Many of them tithed to two or more Churches.
James McClung of Virginia is the only person who’s religion is not known, for certain.
Ben Franklin and George Washington were NOT “deists” by any stretch.
Thomas Jefferson did NOT attend the Constitutional Convention. However, Jefferson did carry a Bible with him, as his daughter was dying.
Also, Jefferson rewrote a complete Bible, himself, removing all of the miracles.
Jefferson believed that the teachings of Jesus were so great, we did not need miracles to prove the Divinity of Jesus.
Delegates to the Constitutional Convention:
Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran
Name of Non-Signing Delegate State Religious Affiliation
Oliver Ellsworth Connecticut Congregationalist
Caleb Strong Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Lansing, Jr. New York Dutch Reformed
Robert Yates New York Dutch Reformed
William Houstoun Georgia Episcopalian
William Leigh Pierce Georgia Episcopalian
Luther Martin Maryland Episcopalian
John F. Mercer Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
George Mason Virginia Episcopalian
Edmund J. Randolph Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
James McClurg Virginia Presbyterian
William C. Houston New Jersey Presbyterian
William R. Davie North Carolina Presbyterian
Alexander Martin North Carolina Presbyterian
My apologies, this source says that James McClung of Virginia was a Presbyterian.
However, George Washington was Epsicopalian.
And, my mistake, Ben Franklin had some Diest tendencies, but —
I was correct in saying that he belonged to an offical Christian Faith. Ben Franklin was also Episcopalian.
Religious Affiliation #of delegates %of delegates
Episcopalian/Anglican 31 56.4%
Presbyterian 16 29.1%
Congregationalist 8 14.5%
Quaker 3 5.5%
Catholic 2 3.6%
Methodist 2 3.6%
Lutheran 2 3.6%
Dutch Reformed 2 3.6%
TOTAL 55 100%
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html
<i.Jefferson believed that the teachings of Jesus were so great, we did not need miracles to prove the Divinity of Jesus.
More accurately, he commended the teaching of Jesus, the man. As for divinity? Well. . .
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
in a letter to John Adams (4/11/1823)
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the_day_will_come_when_the_mystical_generation_of/339303.html
BTW, what exactly do you think you’re proving with the lists of religious affiliations?
That’s just bizarre.
Rage
Liberals love to tell us that our founders were all “Deists” and that is bull.
Ben started down that path, on this very thread, and I posted the truth, about the religious affiliations of our Founders.
boxic,
“There is no such thing as a “christian street-gang” that would do physical harm to them.”
Well, considering I don’t know a single gay man who hasn’t at one point or another been physically attacked by people quoting bible verses, I’d beg to differ with you. Of course you will then deny that their attackers “real” christians, and I will inform you that I don’t give a crap since you all look the same. When your good christian preachers get up on their pulpits and give what amounts to tacit permission to attack and even kill gay people, any denials you may mutter are meaningless. Believe me, I find you at least as detestable as you seem to find gay people.
After reading a lot of these posts I have come to the conclusion that there are many of you on both sides who do not want to see this country returned to greatness if it means having to comprise. It just boggles the mind how some of you think
i am not willing to compromise rights of Americans. The right to make decisions for my body should not be infringed!
As far as the second amendment- sure- lets let all the criminals have any gun they choose- afterall there is no exception in the constitution now is there? Arms- it doesn’t say guns. If I want, I should be able to own a nuke if I so choose. Or anthrax. The second amendment makes no exceptions.
Thus is the problem with the 2nd amendment-where that line is- and many pro-second amendment would agree that nukes shouldn’t be in the hands of criminals. It does say well armed militia though. But the SCOTUS just ruled that is insignificant.
Chris’s list is ridiculous- he says that his compromise is that everyone goes by what he wants. I don’t agree that muslims should make a public spectacle of their prayer in school- but christians want to dictate what programs and prayers are offered as a public spectacle.
There is no banning of your prayer and religion- provided you keep it to YOURSELF. But that’s just too hard isn’t it? The very first Ramaddan celebration in school- can you imagine the fit that xians would have? yet we have christmas programs all the time. To act as if they’re the oppressed majority is ridiculous. You want to know oppression- go see what its like to be a Christian in a country hostile to Christianity- perhaps then you would appreciate what it is like to be a minority religion.
As far as what rights gays don’t have- let me force you to marry someone you aren’t in love with. Or keep you from marrying someone you love.
Idiots.
Liberals are typically proud of being liberal. Its those who are moderately liberal who run from that label because conservatives have treated it like a bad word for so long.
However, Bush’s legacy might be showing just how much of a dirty word conservative should be.
Pm,
With all due respect, your list is pretty much like the other one but from the left side of the spectrum. I do agree with you that your body is just that,your body,and no one should be able to tell you what you can or can’t do with it. I am personally against abortion but that does not give me the right to impose my beliefs on another.
I never want anyone to have an abortion- I wish that was a decision that never had to be made.
I think it would be a far-left position if I said we should impose abortions on those who do not want them.
Freedom of choice isn’t liberal or kooky fringe. It’s just and fair. Conservatives don’t want anyone to have a choice- for abortion, for religion, for marriage. That is kooky and fringe.
I give liberals credit for fighting for minority and women’s rights. Well done. But unfortunately they live in the past and assume that whatever they touch today also turns to gold. Your support for abortion is a direct contrast to the caring and welcoming world that you claim to want. Instead of finding a way forward for both mother and child, you reduced the humanity of the child so that it can be ‘aborted’. Short-sighted?
“I think it would be a far-left position if I said we should impose abortions on those who do not want them”
Actually that would be far right – state control of personal decision-making.
Well, Jesus, That’s a pretty hefty claim. It automatically finds America. Freedom you don’t want to do, is just pick ANY broker.
stoned,
when the society reduces a child to punishment for the mother who has to spend the years and short money necessary to raise that child with precious little help from said society, you’ve already devalued both the child and the mother. In such cases, the “innocent” fetus poses a direct threat to the ability of the mother to have a life of her own. Granted that abortion is an awful decision to have to make, but it is the societal pressures that force such choices. Until those pressures are resolved in an equitable manner that allows a child and mother to live and grow outside of an impoverished environment, you have no gripe coming if the woman chooses abortion over poverty.
There you go trying to dehumanize the baby again and try to use economics to do so. There are many many poor people in the world and they still bring up children. And then there are many rich people who even having a lot still think that they have insufficient to raise a child. So go figure.
And btw “societal pressures” does not dictate the humanity of a child. The world is not perfect and it is not going to be. Just because you see evil around does not mean you have to respond with more evil.
“When your good christian preachers get up on their pulpits and give what amounts to tacit permission to attack and even kill gay people, any denials you may mutter are meaningless”
please post a link
By the way, “hurray for liberals!” Yes indeed!