Thomas Frank (“What’s the Matter With Kansas?”) has a new book on conservatism called “The Wrecking Crew,” which details how conservatives have actually governed in the Bush years. Bottom line: It’s not about incompetence, it’s about ideology. An excerpt:
“Yes, today’s conservatives have disgraced themselves, but they have not strayed from the teaching of their forefathers or the great ideas of their movement. When conservatives appoint the opponents of government agencies to head those government agencies; when they auction their official services to the purveyor of the most lavish ‘golf weekend’; when they mulct millions from groups with business before Congress; when they dynamite the Treasury and sabotage the regulatory process and force government shutdowns — in short, when they treat government with contempt — they are running true to form. They have not done these awful things because they are bad conservatives; they have done them because they are good conservatives, because these unsavory deeds follow naturally from the core doctrines of the conservative tradition. . . .
“Conservatism, as we know it, is a movement that is about greed, about the ‘virtue of selfishness’ when it acts in the marketplace. In right-wing Washington, you can be a man of principle and a boodler at the same time.”
129 Comments
Sorry, Randy, I might agree with you and Thomas Frank up to a degree … although I haven’t read either of his books. But your summary catches my attention when you mix the terms “greed” with the term “virtue of selfishness.”
The latter term, “virtue of selfishness” is developed by Ayn Rand in her various books basically praising the power, the force, the ability to produce greatly by the motivated individual acting on his own individualistic skills hopefully for the good.
In her great book/novel, “Fountainhead,” the focus is on Howard Roark, the individualist, an architect of the 1930’s, struggling against the many, the self-important group thinking. The leader of the latter group, Architect Roark’s nemises is the behind the scenes purveyor of dullness and failure, Ellsworth Toohey.
I have wondered who the “Ellsworth Toohey” of Wichita is … any ideas?
Nobody at the time read those books for their philosphies. They read them for the sex.
A book by a hyper-leftist for hyper-leftists. Less than 10 days after publication it is already $10 off on Amazon.
Only a 40% price reduction! Get your copy now!
“Nobody at the time read those books for their philosphies. They read them for the sex.”
beber, you couldn’t be more wrong. I am a woman and I am currently reading Ayn Rand’s book, “Atlas Shrugged”. Granted, there are a few moments in her book about her love affair with Francisco D’Anconia. It was more about the passion than it was sex but I was glad to get past that.
But what I really like the most is about her desire to improve herself and her dedication to her business passed down from her father, the Taggart Transcontinental. Dagny Taggart is the main character and there are others like her that strive to achieve goals in life. However, the government has taken over the railroads and it demonstrates how incompetent they are and the employees that they hire. They don’t seem to have any sense of responsibility or the power to make any decisions.
I find it very interesting because I have seen this in my own life. I have worked for the government and I have worked for colleges which of course are ran like the government. They give you responsibilities without the power to make any decisions.
I find it refreshing that there are those in life that strive to achieve. I like it because they have decided to let the govt. and those who work for them have their way and they move into the mountains and start their own community. They know that their businesses will be ran into the ground but the ones who are left do not have the desire or the brains to even know where to begin to rebuild. They know in time, they will be needed again.
It is so awesome because I can relate. She wrote this book in 1957, I find it very interesting that she had that kind of foresight to see what can happen to a country and its economy when you allow the government to take over in every area of your life.
I know you dems want government to do everything for you so you might find her books offensive. But let’s be honest, if you have read any of her books, you would know what really offends you is not the sex(that you would really like), but it is the fact that she is against the government having their hand in everything that we do.
“I know you dems want government to do everything for you so you might find her books offensive”
BH is full of BS with her idiotic generalization.
Perhaps she should try living in the real world instead of just the one in her mind.
Nah…way to difficult.
How many books have YOU written Proudfart?
Yeah, You be one smart dude.
Typical of your kind, Borg, unable to see from any but your own perspective. You have to think of the books in the light of the time they were written. And in those days, the books were “hot.” How did you like the rape scene?
If the rape didn’t involve a gorilla BH probably isn’t interested.
Thanks to BH’s candidate John Sydney McC*nt, we all know what women REALLY want.
Let Thomas Frank answer in his own words:
…the episode was so outrageous that there was almost no need for columnists and talk-radio hosts to sputter about the “pansy-ass, tea-sipping” liberal elitists who thought they knew best—the arrogance of the wretched thing spoke for itself.
George W. Bush was authentic; John Forbes Kerry, like all liberals, was an affected toff, a Boston Brahmin who knew nothing of the struggles of average folks.
Democrats held introspective panel discussions in Washington, wrote weepy editorials protesting that they, too, had values, and headed home for Christmas to lick their wounds.
All across America a good old-fashioned red-state Christmas—just like the ones we used to know, only much touchier—brought another year of liberal woe to a close. Righteous parents fantasized that they were striking back at the liberal Gestapo every time they uttered the subversive phrase “Merry Christmas.” Visions of noble persecution danced in everyone’s heads, as dazed Democrats wandered upstairs for yet another long winter’s nap.
Excerpts from:
The New York Review of Books
Volume 52, Number 8 · May 12, 2005
What’s the Matter with Liberals?
By Thomas Frank
Franks is in it to sell books, make money at the expense of naive Liberal readers.
Hook
Line
Sinker
(chortles)
Hey KansasNative. have you even read her books? I doubt it. You probably saw it was over 1,000 pages and couldn’t deal with it.
In addition, you merely state your emotions instead of arguing the point. Have you ever worked for the government? I have. It is not a fantasy world that I speak of but actual experience.
I notice how you dems argue on your fantasy worlds. I’ll bet you haven’t even left the United States, hey maybe not even Kansas. It is you that lives in a fantasy world, you don’t even know your own country. If you had been anywhere else, you would be thankful that you live in this country and you would want the best for it. That is what her book is about, what is best for this country. Not government control but each one of us as individuals taking responsibility and having the desire to create something.
But instead, you want to project your guilt about having something onto others in hopes that you can bring us down to the level of a Third World country just so you won’t feel guilt anymore. Instead of bring down your own country to cure you of your guilt, you can go to the other countries and live there.
Well, I have news for you. We are a country of people of many heritages. We have come from all over the world and still are. When you put down America, you put them all down, the Euro-Americans, the African-Americans, the Native Indians, the Mexicans, the Asians, and the list could go on. Get out of you fantasy world that America is only white Anglo hating biggots. Is that you? Is that why you think that way?
I say, get off of CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the mainstream media and try reading a few books. Use your own imagination, if you have any left?
Isn’t it amazing that Phillip would fall for this without any research into this man. Why am I surprised?
Apparently you get touchy (just like a woman) when someone throws it back in your face.
I have NEVER been on government welfare as you have.
I have traveled the world.
As far as I’m concerned, there is NO NEED for government.
If there were no government, you wouldn’t be able to survive.
Typical girl.
I wouldnt know about Phillip’s research…. But I would say that Randy has it pretty much down to brass tacks… Nobody likes to see their political shortcomings in print… But the thing that surprises me, is that Randy isnt agreeing with this Thomas Frank even more than he is!! :-)
has my mistake. Lack of research is still apparent.
As Rove would say, ‘Stick to principals’.
Thomas Frank is no stranger to Kansas….
So is the ‘War on Xmas’ over? Who won?
WalMart won.
HEHEHEHE
Thomas Frank thinks Lurch lost to Bush because he wasn’t ‘liberal’ enough!
Keep marching in that parade, Randy!
““Conservatism, as we know it, is a movement that is about greed, about the ‘virtue of selfishness’ when it acts in the marketplace.”
Could we get a Lib to define “greed”?
“KansasNative
I have NEVER been on government welfare as you have.”
Once again like a dem lib that doesn’t understand what he reads. I said I worked for the government. I was in the Army stationed at B Co 501 S&T Bn. in Furth, Germany, just a few miles from Neurnberg. I was a 64C10, Truck Driver in civilian language. I also worked for the Veterans Administration. In addition, I worked for a consortium that supported 6 colleges as a computer programmer. Never did I say I was on welfare. I don’t need help from the government. I can take care of myself.
I think we need government, but not to support us, more to protect us from other forms of government. Ours may not be perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than others. How would you like to have been under Saddam? I know, you dems think George Bush was worse, but I don’t see anyone being tortured or graves with 1000s of civilians in them.
As for traveling, I have been across most of Germany, as a truck driver we went a lot of places. Most of the Germans liked Americans, there were only a few who didn’t. They were mostly old and didn’t like it when we bombed Neurnberg. Maybe they would have liked Hitler better.
I have been in Canada, Vancouver and the islands, Sioux Lookout and Winnipeg, and Niagra Falls, Niagra n the Lake and Toronto. Most of the Canadians liked Americans. However, there were a few American jokes in Winnipeg but they were lighthearted and in good taste.
Maybe you are the one who needs to get out of your fantasy world. I think you are one of those who listen to what others say about books and listen to what others say about other countries and what their people think of American then repeat as though you it was yours. Get out and see the world and see how it really is.
Every real CONservative secretly dreams of living like Scrooge McDuck.
Thomas Frank. The same knucklehead who demonstrated in his book, “What’s the Matter With Kansas” that he just couldn’t understand why Kansans generally choose to vote principles over a few extra bucks the Democrats dangle.
Now he authors a full front attack on conservative philosophy, similar to Ann Coulter’s books attacking liberalism. I wonder why Coulter’s books didn’t get a fawning thread like this one?
Never mind. It’s obvious.
BH: you are right on the mark. I find it interesting Atlas Shrugged was written in 57. The sad part is how it may be coming to life with todays belief that government knows all.
If people want government to control everything they should try living in Cuba and other such contries.
One thing they would find is their freedom of speech taken away from them. They would not be able to say what they do on the blogs here.
We teach our children to work hard, get a good education so that you can have a good job. Why do some of you want to take away from those that choose to work hard and achieve?
““Conservatism, as we know it, is a movement that is about greed, about the ‘virtue of selfishness’ when it acts in the marketplace.”
These things have a way of correcting themselves.
Thomas Frank will be reading from his book at Watermark Books on the corner of Oliver and Douglas at 7 pm on Thursday, Aug. 21st.
Why don’t you CONs swing by and see how it goes when you present your misinformation to someone who knows what he’s talking about . . .
For someone who can “take care of himself” you sure relied on the government for your sustenance.
To me, that’s the same as being on welfare.
” I don’t see anyone being tortured or graves with 1000s of civilians in them.”
Apparently you haven’t been following the last seven years of the Bush theocracy. Or maybe in your WORLD view, civilian Iraqis aren’t really people.
http://gadfly.igc.org/progressive/private.htm
In colonial Philadelphia, firefighters were employed by private insurance companies which, of course, had financial incentives to minimize damage to their clients’ properties. Plaques with the insurance company’s insignia were placed on buildings, so that the fire fighters would know whether or not it was their “business” to put out the fires on the premises. (These plaques are often found today in antique shops). If the “wrong” plaque was on the building, well, that was just tough luck. Of course, with their attention confined to a single building, fire fighters were ill-disposed to prevent a spreading of the fire to adjacent “non-client” structures.
Occasionally, when the building’s insurance affiliation was in some doubt, competing fire companies would fight each other for the privilege of putting out the fire, resulting in more water aimed at fire fighters than at burning buildings.
Eventually, the absurdity and outright danger of this system led one prominent Philadelphia citizen to come up with the idea of a publicly funded and administered fire department.
His name was Benjamin Franklin: America’s first anti-free-enterprise commie pinko nut-case.
Franklin’s subversive left-wing ideas were extended to include libraries, post offices, and public schools, and, if we are to believe some of today’s regressives, it’s been downhill ever since.1
These regressives contend that virtually all economic and social institutions are better managed when privatized and unregulated. According to this libertarian theory, the greed (i.e., “profit motive”) of investing private individuals is, in virtually all cases, mystically transformed into the optimum public good. The exceptions are the police, the military, the courts and the legislatures which, they concede, are properly confined to “the public sector.”2
However, today even these exceptions are succumbing to “creeping privatization,” as the hyphen in “military-industrial complex” dissolves, as members of Congress are clearly more beholden to their corporate sponsors (“contributors”) than to their constituents, and as “conservative” judges routinely rule that corporate “property rights” trump personal injury suits and civil liberties.
Critics such as William Greider3 charge that the Bush Administration and the conservative Republicans wish to take America back to the days of William McKinley. It appears that they have miscalculated by more than a century. Instead, it seems that the right-wing ideologues in charge of our government, want to take us back to the days before Benjamin Franklin.
” book by a hyper-leftist for hyper-leftists. Less than 10 days after publication it is already $10 off on Amazon.
Only a 40% price reduction! Get your copy now!”
But that’s the crap Randy Scholfield reads and then brings to the blog. You are grasping at straws there Randy, simply grasping at straws.
Bluejay was this book your textbook? All of these opinions are straight from your deluded belief system.
Capn will you be the one there hanging on his every word? When will the libs learn that men write books to sell them. Whatever is selling at the time is what they ‘believe’ in.
The left – as deluded as you think.
And for you sophomoric thinkers who haven’t gotten past Ayn Rand (proving Menken’s assertion that “for every complex problem, there’s a simple wrong answer”) consider two towns–Randville and Rawlsburg, by Ernest Partridge:
Since there is no such entity as “the public” – since the public is merely a number of individuals – any claimed or implied conflict of the “public interest” with private interests means that the interests of some men must be sacrificed to the interests of and wishes of others.
- Ayn Rand
A society is a cooperative venture for mutual advantage… Social cooperation makes possible a better life for all than any would have if each were to live solely by his own efforts.
- John Rawls
magine that two communities are situated on opposite sides of a great river. On the right bank (appropriately) is “Randville,” populated by libertarians – rugged individualists who are contemptuous of “collective” activity and who assume full personal responsibility for their personal safety, welfare and property. On the left bank is “Rawlsburg,” comprised of individuals who, while covetous of their personal rights, fully acknowledge the existence of public interests. They are therefore aware of the desirability of acting collectively, in the words of the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution, “to insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, [and] promote the general Welfare.”
News arrives that a great flood is approaching from upstream. The citizens of Randville immediately get to work piling sandbags around their individual homes. Across the river brigades of Rawlsburg citizens are working together to build a levee around the town.
One of the towns survives the flood, while the other is devastated. Need I identify which is which?
Consider another case: this one is not fanciful – it is quite real.
In April, 2003, California Governor Gray Davis requested $430 million in federal funds to reduce the fire hazard in the southern California forests. The request was ignored until, on October 24, George Bush rejected it. A few hours later, “the Old Fire” broke out in the San Bernardino mountains, followed by several more fires, eventually consuming three quarter of a million acres and 3577 homes, and causing 22 fatalities.
This particular disaster struck close to home – precisely 150 feet close to my home, where the fire was stopped at my property line. “The Old Fire” almost surrounded the cluster of houses in our neighborhood, and only the combined, coordinated and professional effort of the U.S. Forest Service and the state and local firefighters saved our homes. Several days earlier we were ordered off the mountain while these “big government bureaucracies” did their work – magnificently. (See my “If it burns, it earns”).
Presumably, the method preferred by the Bush administration would have been to defund the government fire-control agencies and then to leave it to each of us individual property owners to take a valiant stand by our individual homes, garden hoses in hand. Who can doubt that had we tried that, all our houses would have been reduced to ashes and many of us would have ended up as “crispy critters.”
Stop by and argue with the man, OkieDokie. I’ve heard him speak twice before and saw him on Colbert the other night.
He’ll crush you like a bug.
Who is in the lead, with their book, Pelosi or Frank?
LOL
The more they rail about government, the more they prove Frank to be correct. HOW can you govern when you hate the very thing you are hired to run? Would a private business hire their biggest enemies to run it? Not if it wanted to stay in business very long.
Does anyone doubt, after reading these antigovernment posts, that they are indeed, The Wrecking Crew?
Thanks for the info Captain. I might even try to make it down there for that. The guy is a genius and has no fear of speaking the truth. Gotta love that!
So Crapn, you built your house in a known forest fire storm area and blame the U.S. Government.
What part of planning where you build your house do you not understand?
Thank you sunflower5 for the comment. I just don’t see how they cannot see the priviledges they have especially when they are on the blogs everyday. They can say what they want about who they want. We wouldn’t get that in other countries.
As for you KansasNative, you have been so blinded by the “Bush hatred” syndrome that you can’t see straight. If Bush truly tortured and buried civilians, you can bet it would be on our news everyday. Remember Abu Graib? Amazing how it was on about 300 times and Saddam’s massive graves were on about 3 times. You would rather be under the reign of a massive murderer than Bush(McSame, McBush, etc). I really believe that the dems only hated Bush because Americans decided to vote for him rather than Gore or Kerry.
Right now, it seems the only way the dems can win against the republicans is to tie McCain into Bush because the only thing dems can think of is “hate Bush”. They don’t know what Americans want or maybe they just don’t care. If Obama truly wanted to win, he would listen to Americans and start drilling in America instead of saying it won’t help. It’s so obvious that it would. It’s like tieing the hands of Americans to produce and build. That is what we do best. Not sit back and let government help us but to help ourselves. And it has been the Congress that won’t lift the sanctions so we can afford to build refineries here in our country for our people. It would produce oil and jobs for Americans.
“Conservatism” is about to go into exile for a very long time.
Could we get a Lib to define “greed”?
Gladly, Fleettwood.
Greed is when a politically well-connected millionaire with a stake in a big baseball team uses eminent domain to seize property for an arena, builds arena, thus making the baseball much more valuable, and converts his hundred thousand dollar investment into 14 million dollars when he sells his share of the baseball team.
Mom and Pop stores and shops were sold at fire sale prices (technically the law requires “just compensation” but the rumor of eminent domain makes the land values plummet, since no one can buy the land except for the gov’t) so that George W. Bush could become really, really wealthy.
That’s greed.
Remember Abu Graib?
Yes. I remember how two scapegoats got punished and the private contractors doing even worse (child rape) got nothing.
I remember how the higher ups who approved of Abu Ghraib got nothing.
“Does anyone doubt, after reading these antigovernment posts, that they are indeed, The Wrecking Crew?”
————
I don’t see any ant-government posts in this thread.
Great, Grrl.
Let me know if you can make it (e-me).
I’ll take you out to dinner with some of our blog friends.
:)
Libs
Without the “profit motive” there are no profits.
Without profit, there is no tax revenue.
Without tax revenue, there can be no government —
Wow, maybe we SHOULD think about this?
BlueJay Posted August 11, 2008 at 9:41 am |
““Conservatism, as we know it, is a movement that is about greed, about the ‘virtue of selfishness’ when it acts in the marketplace.”
“These things have a way of correcting themselves.”
Yeah…the way they have corrected themselves in your case, a dirt thief and by your own admission so down your son doesn’t even have health coverage and who knows what else.
Come on BJ, wake up to what’s around you and why you find yourself stuck in the stink of it.
Regular–
Consider a government worker who is injured while on the job.
Should that worker be supported for the rest of his life by taxpayers?
Oh, wait, I’m talking about YOU, the “rugged individualist” who takes care of himself.
You make it too easy, Regular.
Will do Captain. It’s hard for me to get away right now, but seeing and hearing Frank in person would be worth the sacrifice. At least it isnt on a farmers market day.
“They don’t know what Americans want”
I dont think “americans” know what “americans” want. But I think we should all be pretty clear about what “americans” DONT want. And it’s four more years of bushco.
I mean, given the fact that only 18 percent think “america” is on the right track. I’m so sure they want mcsame. Hell, I’m thinkin’ a yellow dog could beat mcsame.
Let’s just hope obama is smarter than a yellow dog.
Great Franklin: You’re starting to get it. Now let’s think about the profit motive for prostitution, drugs etc.
Youre starting to get it now.
Hmm… Criticiaing the use of imminent domain, a governmental action. Glad you brought that one up CapnAmerica.
In Kelo v. City of New London , No. 04-108, the liberal majority of the US Supreme Court allowed seizing of private property so that it could be resold to private developers who could produce more tax revenue.
I take it that you don’t support the court in that one Capn?
Jesus WEPT paulie! Do you even THINK before you hit post?
“Without profit, there is no tax revenue.”
Oh for crying out loud. Sales tax? Property tax? Death tax? Capital gains tax?
The only tax that depends on profit is income tax. And even then, if you have a smart accountant, you are not likely to show much “profit”.
“The stars might lie but the numbers never do” does NOT apply to tax accounting.
When they hide profit, it’s just good business. When poor folks get earned income credit it’s bad policy.
Only in con world….
The liberal majority of SCOTUS? The same ones who installed bushco as preznit?
Heheheheheh.
I want what outlander is smoking.
Capn
You are going to the absurd extremes.
I am the son of a Fireman, I know the history of firefighting quite well.
“Gangs of New York” was a more balanced movie, (and book) in my opinion.
Yes, it showed the chaos of private fire insurance companies and how they fought each other.
However, the natural corruption of government was also on display.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
You beat me to it. Not to mention Value-Added Tax, capital gains, tariffs. The United States fought five world-class wars financed on tariffs alone.
Sometimes “Franklin’s” thought process is fun to watch; like when they give the chimpanzees a box of paints and a canvas. Sometimes the final product looks pretty good, but the brain that created it was sub-human.
The liberal majority of the US Supreme Court.
Stevens was joined in the majority by Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.
If Obama is elected?
It will be bad for the country, however it will be GREAT for conservative politicians.
Unfortunately, an Obama win will also be great for RINO Republicans.
Obama will turn the entire country against liberalism.
However, Obama is so naive, and so dangerous, I would rather apologize for McCain’s mistakes than complain about Obama’s mistakes.
Outlander: How did this “Liberal Supreme Court” get appointed when only two were appointed by a liberal President? 7 of the 9 appointees were from Ford, Reagan, H and W?
Can you explain how these conservative presidents would nominate such liberal justices?
I think that part of the dictotomomy that Frank is talking about is how many Conservatives hate the government yet spend their lives working for the government, John McCain at 71 has never had a job in the private sector Bob Dole didn’t have one until he became a spokesman for Pepsi when he was 70. Most of the Conservatives on the blog are or were government workers.
LLVET
Actually, quite awhile back, I commented that our illegal drug laws were a complete failure, crafted in part due to racist hype where marijuana and cocaine are involved.
I honestly don’t know HOW to solve that problem, or even what might work best.
I don’t want to go back to the days of “patent medicine” with cocaine and opium found in nearly every “cure-all” sold on the street corner.
However, even though cocaine was first GIVEN to Black laborers, to get more work out of them, then demonized, by the claim that Cocaine was causing mass rape and murder, (But only in Black men?) It does seem to me that Cocaine is far to powerful to be unregulated.
Marijuana? Well, we have had a war on crabgrass, in this country, for quite awhile. Same with dandelions. I think crabgrass and dandelions are winning that war.
Marijuana will win, as well. It is just another weed and we will never kill it off.
The irony of the war on drugs is that racial stereotypes made both Cocaine and Marijuana illegal.
However, there would be no Crips gang and there would be no Bloods gang if we took the profit out of illegal drugs.
Will drug abuse, and violent crime, and the theft of copper and the theft of catalytic converters and all the stuff drug addicts do, go up or down, if we change our drug laws?
I don’t know. Our current system, in this regard, is a complete failure.
However, I pretty sure that full blown legalization, even of something like marijuana, will cause more harm than good.
The public will, one day, get tired of the legal, law enforcement and prison expense, and our laws will change.
Sorry, I have seen the real pain caused by drugs and alcohol. That we allow one does not mean we are ready for the other.
Things will change. That does not mean that things will get better.
Can you explain how these conservative presidents would nominate such liberal justices?
————
Political expediency, stupidity etc.. What does it matter?
Farmgirl, you are wrong:
ksfarmgrrl
Posted August 11, 2008 at 10:17 am | Permalink
Jesus WEPT paulie! Do you even THINK before you hit post?
“Without profit, there is no tax revenue.”
Oh for crying out loud. Sales tax? Property tax? Death tax? Capital gains tax?
The only tax that depends on profit is income tax. And even then, if you have a smart accountant, you are not likely to show much “profit”.
“The stars might lie but the numbers never do” does NOT apply to tax accounting.”
—–
Just how long will a business be able to pay sales tax, if the business does not show a profit?
Just how long will a business be able to pay property tax, if the business does not show a profit?
And, you bring up capital gains tax? The CAPITAL GAINS TAX is SPECIFICALLY a tax on profit! That you brought that one up, in your post, seriously damages your credibility. How can you say that a tax, specifically designed as a tax on the difference between the cost basis and the sale price of corporate stock or real estate or other property, is NOT a tax on profit?
And the death tax? Well that is a complicated topic, but you have to be a millionaire to worry about it. Granted, many of those millionaires will have to buy large amounts of life insurance, or put the farm or business into an irrevocable trust, in order to get around the death tax. Otherwise, the family farm or the family business might be in real danger. The death tax makes for some profit incentive among insurance agents, accountants and attorneys — and only people who know how to make a profit, in the first place, need to deal with that tax very often.
Every nominee has to be confirmed by the Senate.
After what the libs did to Bork, and tried to do to Clarence Thomas, Presidents have gone with nominees who had very little record, and—
We have been burned!
I must agree with you Franklin. Well spoken.
Outlander, the point is whether the SCOTUS is liberal or whether you just THINK they are liberal. Since the SCOTUS rules against gun bans, they can hardly be considered liberal. (by the way I agree with their ruling)
Now Outlander, are you certain that your view of “liberal” is rational?
Well gosh LLTVET, liberal or conservative. Where’s the line? That is a matter of opinion, isn’t it?
I’ll tell you how I see it. When Kennedy swings left, it is a liberal majority. When he swings right it is a conservative a majority.
How do you see it, LLTVET?
Well said Outlander, that makes it a balanced supreme court.
Ruling against Gitmo (torquing off the neocons one day)
Ruling against gun control (torquing off the liberals the next)
Sounds balanced to me. Or is a balanced supreme court a BAD thing?
I dont think the Supreme court is Liberal or Conservative per se
even the Conservatives(all of them) on the court sided with Larry Flynt over Jerry Falwell, Why? because the constitution was on Flynts side
Oh, jeez –
Does no one know history anymore?
The Supreme Court of the United States has always been a burr under the saddle of democracy. That’s its job.
It’s been right it’s been wrong it’s been Right it’s been Left it’s been political it’s been idealistic it’s been just it’s been corrupt it’s been petty it’s been profound it’s been incompetent it’s been brilliant it’s been just about what any and every one of us Americans have been over the last two-hundred-and-mumble years.
But it’s the Supreme Court.
It’s the umpire on the diamond. It’s the decision “after further review” at an NFL game. It’s the way (to use the Olympics analogy) America throws out the Soviet judge’s “Ten-point-seven” and the US judge’s “Zero-point-three” scores and gives the medal to the Ukrainian gymnast. The SCOTUS simply is the go-to guy and, mostly, it gets it right. Mostly. And mostly, it eventually cleans up its messes. Mostly. Eventually.
The machinations involved in getting a case ready to present to the SCOTUS, and what cases the SCOTUS chooses to hear and rule on, and the significance of majority and dissenting opinions is far more complex — and political — than most people can imagine.
It’s gonna take a while, but in time you gun nuts might realize you lost the Heller decision.
Well said Paine, sounds like “common sense”
I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Sounds balanced to me. Or is a balanced supreme court a BAD thing? – LLTVET
————–
I don’t know that it is a good thing thing that 8 of 9 justices are so ideologically entrenched that they can be counted on to vote a particular way.
They haven’t found a way to have 4.5 Justices to each side.
My, my another post to bait republicans or conservatives into posting on your dying blogs.
Simple really, newspaper reports will do anything to sell papers. Ditto the electronic news media.
Will agree with the entire post – except for the name calling use of “boodler”.
There is nothing dishonest in a conservative wanting to keep what is rightfully his/her own property. Be that income/earnings, investment earnings, business profits, or any other financial instrument in a portfolio.
It is MY money. Call me selfish, or any other whiny crybaby term you want to use in order to justify your STEALING IT.
But it is not dishonest for conservatives wanting to keep their own property and for the country to quit spending it so friviously. (NOTE TO CAPN: Don’t tell me about the war debt, or Bush deficits Clinton deficits/congress approval of deficits – we agree. That is republican – not true conservatives.)
Otherwise, it’s a good post.
I wouldn’t consider that hypothetical scenario to be a good thing either outlander.
Now is it true that 8 of 9 justices are so ideologically entrenched that they can be counted on to vote a particular way? Or is that just your opinion?
Thank you for defining the mean of 9 Regular. Perhaps we can discuss the standard deviation next.
“CapnAmerica
Posted August 11, 2008 at 10:02 am | Permalink
Could we get a Lib to define “greed”?
Gladly, Fleettwood.”
Greedy is when you feel you have a right to reach into MY back pocket and take however much of MY MONEY you socialist feel you can justify as a RIGHT.
It’s having a hand stretched out full of nothing and a mouth full of “gimmee”.
I’m inviting the ‘Count’ from Sesame Street over for brunch tomorrow. Perhaps we can discuss prime numbers and how they affect Supreme Court decisions.
And when I slap your hand away, you call me a greedy boodler. ;-)
Oh, someone is hung up on the odd numbers. Here is an even number.
Cases: 2
1: Gitmo
2: Gun ban
What was the score for neo-cons: 1-1
What was the score for liberals: 1-1
This way you don’t have to “overthink”
Pickin’ nits and splittin’ hairs.
Don’t have the time or desire to do that LLTVET.
Later.
fleettwood
Posted August 11, 2008 at 9:30 am | Permalink
““Conservatism, as we know it, is a movement that is about greed, about the ‘virtue of selfishness’ when it acts in the marketplace.”
Could we get a Lib to define “greed”?
————————————————————————————–
Of course not Fleetwood, but I’ll offer a definition:
GREED
1) TAKING as much as you can from others, that which you did NOT EARN yourself.
2) Forcing others to work, through an all controling and all-powerful Big Brother Government, and taking their money from them, while you do nothing for yourself.
3) Establishing a Fascist Government system to “legalize” the theft of money from those who Earn it, to those who continue to vote for the Fascist Government regime. (Thereby perpetuating the cycle of Extortion in Exchange for Votes to continue the Socialist giveaway programs for the Greedy Recipients of Government giveaway programs.)
“But it is not dishonest for conservatives wanting to keep their own property” Amway
Gosh Amway, that is the definition of Freedom you know – Keeping Your Own Property.
Obvious Post Count Baiting by the Eagle with this one. (They can only post the Tiahrt Amendment so many times you know.)
Throwing out an obviously erroneous definition of Conservatism to a bunch of wild-eyed Libs is like throwing blood in the water during a shark frenzy.
Those Libs keep thrashing away fighting for whatever scraps they can get!
Max,
Your analogy of “wild-eyed Libs” and blood in the water enticing a shark frenzy is a good one, but I think it gives them far too much credit.
They are more like a bunch of squawking sea gulls all fighting over the same dropped french fry on a pier.
My favorite quote about Thomas Frank comes from conservative columnist, George Will:
“Think of him [Frank] as a Michael Moore with an educated mind.”
Note the back-handed compliment that manages to slam both men at the same time. Even HLP in all his glory could never do that good. :)
I am pretty sure that Frank is from Johnson County and everyone knows, like the denizens of Douglas County, those folk are not real Kansans. I mean the women have hairy armpits and legs, cannabis outsells Coors by a 2:1 margin, simply put, they are a blue stain anomaly in our great Red state; Why they even like Little Feat in that part of the world. Shameful.
LOL Steven. Now if Frank were correct about the golf course conservatism, the Kennedy’s would have been considered conservative.
Steven, sometimes you can be a hoot!
Paulie? Good grief.
“Just how long will a business be able to pay sales tax, if the business does not show a profit?
Just how long will a business be able to pay property tax, if the business does not show a profit?
And, you bring up capital gains tax? The CAPITAL GAINS TAX is SPECIFICALLY a tax on profit! ”
Uh, according to you cons, I thought PEOPLE paid taxes, not businesses.
Homes, personal property, etc. Do NOT depend on “profit”. So… even if a business goes OUT of business, the property exists, and the persons, either real or artificial, who own it pay property taxes. It is a tax on value, not profit.
PEOPLE pay sales taxes, not businesses, unless they are the end user of the taxable item. So… if a business buys nuts and bolst USED in the business, like to bolt down a machine, they pay sales taxes. But not on the nuts and bolt used in the businesses product, or on items for resale.
As far as capital gains, I’m going to call semantics. I see that as a tax on APPRECIATION, not “Profit” in the sense of income vs. expenses. You can have waaaaay more expenses than income from a property, but if the resale value appreciates, regardless of “profit”, then capital gains taxes are paid. However, I see how you came to that conclusion, and I’m not going to argue about it. I define “profit” differently than I do “appreciated value”.
But on the sales taxes and property taxes, you are just dead wrong.
And I love how when you are at your most absurd that you say the other person’s credibility is damaged.
Pot, meet kettle.
Sorry Boxlock, you’re correct. The beggers are more like gulls, or even pigeons chasing after scraps.
And max and boxy are like the two old guys sitting in the “box” seats on the Muppet Show.
Ah, the Police & Fire Department argument for more Socialist Programs.
Funny, the things the Libs counts as Entitlements – Roads, Water, Police & Fire Protection, Libraries, are the very things at the core Role of Government which benefit EVERYONE.
The entitlements the Libs truly want, are the income tax redistributions of wealth to make sure everyone has equal income regardless of what they earn or don’t earn.
Fess up Libs and just be honest. You want to steal from those who have more then you do – and you call this getting your “Entitlements”.
You Libs are just thieves, stealing (and often begging) your way thru life.
“StevenEDavis” notes –
“…Frank is from Johnson County and everyone knows, like the denizens of Douglas County, those folk are not real Kansans. I mean the women have hairy armpits and legs, cannabis outsells Coors by a 2:1 margin, simply put, they are a blue stain anomaly in our great Red state; Why they even like Little Feat in that part of the world. Shameful.”
Johnson County?
Home of the B-POOPs?!
(the Beautiful People Of Overland Park)
There was never a stronger Republic Party bastion of power until the twice-born took over.
The Nazarene Mafia of Olathe took control of JoCo’s Republic Party and the whole shebang collapsed under their self-righteousness.
Phill (the extra L is for “loser) Kline got so full of himself and his personal ministry to the point he tried to make the County Prosecutor’s office God’s “terrible swift sword.” And he got his ass handed to him.
Jim Ryun (as he’s always done) entered one too many race, and was proven yet again to be a whining loser.
The whole Republic Party of Kansas coalition is in its death throes. Pat Roberts is all over television advocating socialized medicine for kids. Kids, the poor, the elderly… who’s next?
Tiahrt (what? were his ancestors dyslexic?) will play the abortion card (although he’s been in office for a decade or more and what difference has he made?), and Jenkins might be able to eke out a victory over Boyda by claiming to be less butch.
But even the stupid-est CONservatives are beginning to realize they’ve been played for the fools they’ve been.
The Libs treat Government as their Altar. Their God is almighty Government who gives them their free material handouts.
Conservatives do NOT worship at the Altar of Government.
Contempt for Government? When Government is corrupt and infringes on the basic Freedom of the People, yes then Conservatives hold their Government in Contempt, because they are.
Great Max, now hold this government in contempt. You can start with Kline. Find out why he came to power and make me believe that the Republicans won’t make that kind of stupid mistake again.
kfg
There is NO tax on capital gain if the property value does not increase.
Therefore: capital gains taxes are, by definition, a tax on profit!
And, we were specifically talking about business, were we not? So now you bring up taxation of individuals, and taxation of homes? Why?
Also, investment realestate really can NOT be sold at a profit, if it takes more to run the property than what the property can generate, in cash flow.
Such a property would have a very poor “capitalization rate” — such a property would, most likely, generate a capital loss, not a capital gain.
And again, businesses that fail do not produce income taxes or sales taxes or property taxes for very long.
Also, when conservatives make the point that business do not pay taxes, we are correct. Business that can AFFORD to pay taxes will pass those taxes on to their customers, as part of the cost of goods and services. Those businesses that can not afford to pay taxes go out of business.
I’m taking the night off.
See ya there, Farmie:)
Carl Levinson’s pay package alone dilutes Citi’s shareholder value by 7%. Talk about a culture of greed! The man must be a genius, or the Board’s all idiots.
Customers can afford to pay taxes because they’ll pass that cost back to the employer in higher wages (in a perfect world) ERGO NO ONE PAYS TAXES!
“Phantom
Posted August 11, 2008 at 1:34 pm | Permalink
Carl Levinson’s pay package alone dilutes Citi’s shareholder value by 7%.”
What’s it to you Phantom? How is this any of your business? Jealous maybe? Envy?
Covet your neighbors wealth, as if you are entitled to part of it.
Where do you libs get off putting down and making evil of wealthy people? Sensitive of your own situation?
If you are a stockholder, then complain and use your proxy vote within the corporation.
Or are you wanting Uncle Sugar to take some of his money, or better – tell the corporation how much to pay it’s employees?
Out of a thread of stupid CON posts, this has to be one of the stupidest:
“The entitlements the Libs truly want, are the income tax redistributions of wealth to make sure everyone has equal income regardless of what they earn or don’t earn.”
No, American liberal — past, present, or future — has ever written that.
This is how the reich-wing distorts what liberals really want:
health care for all, safety net for children to prevent malnutrition and unsafe housing, financial security for the elderly and infirm.
CapnAmerica,
Are you a sea gull or a pigeon? Your list of
items theft is justified appears rather short for what I’ve seen you post before.
Sea gulls limit their pickings to near the shore. Pigeons are beggars everywhere and less discriminate.
“health care for all, safety net for children to prevent malnutrition and unsafe housing, financial security for the elderly and infirm.”
And Capn, just how do the Libs do that without massive “tax redistributions[sic] of wealth to make sure everyone has equal”….uh?
And once that starts how do you limit the number that decide that the safety net is a good enough living for not having to work, so then massive numbers just quit and start relying on others to provide for them.
How do you keep the earners and producers and investors continuing to drive the economy with their work and investment with little to no opportunity for a financial reward.
No, the whole system becomes the old East Berlin type economy where everyone has little to nothing.
And max and boxy are like the two old guys sitting in the “box” seats on the Muppet Show.
*****
HEHEHEHEE! Ain’t that the truth.
Here’re their portraits–
http://www.muppetcentral.com/_images/muppets/sandw.jpg
Gee, Boxlock, how do we fund the most expensive military in the entire world, more expensive than all the militaries in the world put together?
Look, it’s like insurance. You buy it because you might need it. Most people, most of the time don’t need it.
But when you need it, you really need it.
Even effing Rush Limbaugh was on welfare for two years, and you can tell from looking at him, he was never starving.
Something tells me that he never paid that money back either . . .
“was on welfare for two years”
Wait a minute CAPN. I did NOT see welfare in your list of things libs want.
“Something tells me that he never paid that money back either . . .”
Wanna guess how much he pays in taxes every year?
Capn,
We get a good return on the military. Those folks are working and getting paid darn little for the most part.
We get a good return on the advancement of our technology from military development that spills over into consumer goods.
As long as it’s not too over done, as was in the USSR, and it brings the economy down.
Handing welfare checks to folks that refuse to work or that just work the system is counter productive. And there are plenty of bureaucrats that simply don’t care either.
Sure there are those in genuine need that we need to assist but let those that can work and provide for themselves do so or not eat. That will motivate them to start pushing the wagon instead of complaining that somebody else isn’t pushing fast enough.
Good point.
Why did we fund Limbaugh for those two years when he failed to find work in this paradise of opportunity?
The world really would have been a better place had we let the drug addict starve . . .
Your forgetting one variable boxlox. The German maneuver damage lawsuits, the $1 million dollar per year mess hall in Turkey that feeds about 100 airmen. Sure the troops are doing good. But the locals are sucking us dry so that we can have the honor of “protecting them.”
The DOD Mercedes in Germany makes the Welfare Cadillac look like a bicycle spoke.
Fleettwood–
I’ll gladly pay his taxes if I can make his income.
How much he pays in taxes now is wholly irrelevant to how much he sucked from the gov’t trough then.
“let the drug addict starve . . .”
Excellent point. If we stopped giving druggies money maybe they wouldn’t have money to buy more drugs. Cut them off, and decrease the surplus population.
LLTVET,
Not arguing….not arguing that.
“I’ll gladly pay his taxes if I can make his income.”
Of course you would. That’s what you people do.
Something for nothing.
“Conservative. We work, so you don’t have to”.
capn:
Pleased to be asking for a link for this Rush claim.
Phantom
Posted August 11, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink
Customers can afford to pay taxes because they’ll pass that cost back to the employer in higher wages (in a perfect world) ERGO NO ONE PAYS TAXES!
Phantom, what world are you living in? You cannot force an employer to pay you more money. If that were the case, we would never have to ask for raises. And don’t answer with cost of living raise or minimum wage increase because that is not enough to keep up with the rising cost.
If we could force employers to increase our wages, then why is it that our wages have been lowered due to the fact that we now have illegal aliens who will work for those lower wages. Of course, they can afford to. They don’t have to pay for health care or taxes and they tend to combine family members and friends into one home. btw – that is how the families in Germany lived.
If you want to live that way, I suggest living with some of your extended family for awhile and add a few friends. It is the going rage. Oh yeah, and go find you one of those jobs that pays about $7.80 an hour. Then let’s see how high and mighty you are when you approach the manager at WalMart who is probably about 15 years youger than you and tell him you want a raise. I doubt he will have the authority to give it to you or even care.
#
LLTVET
Posted August 11, 2008 at 4:22 pm | Permalink
Your forgetting one variable boxlox. The German maneuver damage lawsuits, the $1 million dollar per year mess hall in Turkey that feeds about 100 airmen. Sure the troops are doing good. But the locals are sucking us dry so that we can have the honor of “protecting them.”
The DOD Mercedes in Germany makes the Welfare Cadillac look like a bicycle spoke.
===========================
Source please. I’d question the fact that a dining hall costs one million dollars a year to operate.
Regular,
Good question and I agree that I would like to see a source on that.
I simply took LLTVET at his word, and still do, but would like to see that.
If that is the case that is excessive for that number of men.
OK here is one of those moment you find me defending conservatism, the author is wrong in that they are following and or continuing the principles of conservatism. Far from it in that true conservatism is not about the human emotion of greed. Even if I had more money than D. Trump I would not have more bedrooms then I would sleep in or need for visits from family or friends. Conservatism is about responsibility not about excesses.
Those that have bastardized the term conservative are more in line with the Communist socialist ideology than that of Conservatism. They do have greed but it is in a excess that is that they are the only ones that are not to be used . Everyone else is expendable for the great good, of course they are the only greater good!
The me-me of what is good for the business is good for the country is in error. It is the other way around as the country will survive without the business but the business will not without the country.
Mike Hayden. One of my bosses when I was stationed at the San Juan MEPS. He and I were discussing how much money he was trying to save the Air Force when he was a young Tech Sergeant stationed in Turkey. His idea was to put these airmen on seperate rations and spend about $50,000 to renovate the barracks so the single airmen could cook in their barracks. The only problem (according to Master Sergeant Hayden) was that the Turkish government wouldn’t allow it.
I’m afraid it’s been 10 years since I took early retirement. So I can’t find Major Pepper of the Brigade S4. (He is probably retired by now) so finding out the amounts of German maneuver damage is going to be a bit hard. But I do remember him sharing with me about a german who sued for maneuver damage. When Major Pepper told the german that the maneuvers he was speaking of weren’t scheduled for another 2 weeks. The german replied (I will call back in 2 weeks)
“The Nazarene Mafia of Olathe took control of JoCo’s Republic Party and the whole shebang collapsed under their self-righteousness.”
And the Nazarene Mafia is now drowning in Olathe’s own runaway population growth. The newcomers are just suburbanites moving in because Overland Park is now reaching the limits of its growth (relatively speaking).
“MonkeyHawk” says:
“Johnson County?
“Home of the B-POOPs?!
(the Beautiful People Of Overland Park)
“There was never a stronger Republic Party bastion of power until the twice-born took over.”
*****
I would agree about JoCo being run by conservative and wealthy repubs – even Frank talked about “tear downs” where folk would buy property, tear down the large and expensive house to build larger and more expensive housing in JoCo.
I am not sure why but JoCo has a larger population of wealthy people than we do here in SGCo. And there is a larger liberal population up there than there is down here among the prolateriat.
I concede to MH’s better knowledge of those folk up there.
Douglas County, bless their heats, are indeed, the blue stain in the Red Sea of Kansas.
heats = hearts
I had lunch at Watermark books with Steven.
Cool place. I’ll be there for Mr. Frank’s reading.
I disagree Dog. That might have been at one time the premise, but it quickly became the mantra of those who are selfish. If you disagree, I can name the conservatives who aren’t. How many houses does McCain really need?
Vacation homes? How many neocons have vacation homes? And was it necessary for Joel Osteen’s family to fly first class which resulted in her assaulting a flight attendant over a stain on her seat? Come on.
There is no responsibility on the side of the conservatives.
Thomas Frank just another hate filled liberal.
Examples of Liberal thinking:
“How many houses does McCain really need?
And was it necessary for Joel Osteen’s family to fly first class…”
“How many houses does McCain really need?”
Pot, meet…
John Edwards and His Six Million Dollar Mansion
http://bluestarchronicles.com/2007/01/28/john-edwards-and-his-six-million-dollar-mansion/
Senate millionaires
John Kerry, D-Massachusetts: $163,626,399
Herb Kohl, D-Wisconsin: $111,015,016
John Rockefeller, D -West Virginia: $81,648,018
Jon Corzine, D-New Jersey: $71,035,025
Dianne Feinstein, D-California: $26,377,109
Peter Fitzgerald, R-Illinois: $26,132,013
Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey $17,789,018
Bill Frist, R-Tennessee: $15,108,042
John Edwards, D-North Carolina: $12,844,029
Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts: $9,905,009
Jeff Bingaman, D-New Mexico: $7,981,015
Bob Graham, D-Florida: $7,691,052
Richard Shelby, R-Alabama: $7,085,012
Gordon Smith, R-Oregon: $6,429,011
Lincoln Chafee, R-Rhode Island: $6,296,010
Ben Nelson, D-Nebraska: $6,267,028
Lamar Alexander, R-Tennessee: $4,823,018
Mike DeWine, R-Ohio: $4,308,093
Mark Dayton, D-Minnesota:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/06/13/senators.finances/
I decieded not to extend the sex any further and get on to America. Tends to makes you wonder what the sex will get up to. We needed the episode we’d already spent over twice our weekly budget in just 5 days.