A small school district in Texas has become the first in the nation to approve teachers and staff carrying concealed firearms. Teachers with pistols — what a great learning environment for kids.
The policy change is intended to thwart school shootings, such as the one that occurred Thursday at a school in Tennessee.
But as a Dallas Morning News editorial argued, the district is courting disaster: “Injecting firearms into a school setting opens the door to tragic but avoidable accidents. And there are no certain safeguards to prevent an angry student — or teacher — from getting hold of a gun that was carried into the classroom.
“Parents depend on educators to provide a safe learning environment for their children. Allowing teachers to be armed and potentially dangerous is a frightening prospect.”
353 Comments
This has to be one of the single most STUPID thing I have ever seen presented. Go figure that it came out of Texas.
Well, it will certainly solve the class discipline problem- blow a few of the worst cut-ups to kingdom come, and the rest of the class will shape right up!
Well, it is one small school District in Texas, I doubt it will affect anyone else. Also, right in the heart of rattlesnake country. Who knows when a varmint will be crawling into the classroom. :)
I lived about 100 miles south of Wichita Falls and it was common for people to carry firearms in their pickup trucks as it is a very spread out country. It would take hours to get help and there are all sorts of critters (two-legged) as well out there.
I don’t have a problem with it.
Of course YOU don’t have a problem with it mccluer, you parrot whatever the reichwing says.
You are not a licensed professional who has an ethical and legal responsibility to the children and young adults in your classroom. You really have no right to say “I don’t have a problem with it”.
I’m sure you’ll know grace us with you vast experience in the classroom as an “emergency substitute teacher” in Derby and how you “made such a difference”.
Most likely, this will turn into a teacher bashing, ad hominem filled thread that will be pointless within a few hours. When the price family criminals start chiming in, this thread is over.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 6:47 am | Permalink
Of course YOU don’t have a problem with it mccluer, you parrot whatever the reichwing says.
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Nope, and sorry for your Liberal paranoia fears.
Isolated communities, such as this one in Texas, are out in the boonies. It takes a very long time to get help.
Wichita Falls is a nasty place – it has lots of drug problems and criminal activities. I imagine criminals with their drugs and bad intentions filter their way down to these small towns and can wreak a lot of havoc, threaten lives and property without much resistance if the citizens are not armed.
If there were armed citizens, there would be some second thoughts of a criminal striking at these small towns.
I don’t know what it is like now, but owning a firearm in that part of Texas, used to be as natural as having a driver’s license. I doubt it has changed that much.
As usual, you are missing the point all together mccluer.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school. The only people who should carry a firearm into a school is law enforcement. Blather all you want, you cannot justify anything to the contrary.
….talk about true paranoia!
I haven’t been out of high school so long that I can’t remember the types of louts (phys ed teachers, drivers ed coaches, the guy whose class we used to call American Track & Field History…) who would deign to pack heat while presiding over a classroom.
And I know exactly the kids who would’ve been more than eager to wrestle a gun from an asshat teacher in the middle of a pop quiz.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 6:56 am | Permalink
As usual, you are missing the point all together mccluer.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school. The only people who should carry a firearm into a school is law enforcement. Blather all you want, you cannot justify anything to the contrary.
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No, I think you’re missing the point.
I doubt small school districts can afford security officers. I also doubt that spread out communities can afford to dispatch police officers to schools for 8 hours a day, five days a week.
Sometimes, communities have to do for themselves as their manpower and resources are limited.
It’s why they have volunteer fire departments, volunteer EMT’s and unpaid mayors and city council members in small towns. The services are needed, they just can’t afford to pay for them.
Double duty is very common in small towns.
You’re just spoiled in Wichita, Apophis. Not every community has a large tax base to get all the toys,goodies and yes even protection the teachers want.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
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Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 7:03 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
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Only in your citified, sissy Liberal mind is it inappropriate.
If you were stuck out in the boonies, one hundred miles from nowhere and there had been incidents of intruders in your school, you would probably change your mind.
You just didn’t have my Senior English teacher, “Regular” –
She was the Grammar Nazi.
Had she had the option, she would’ve drawn and aimed with, “So what’s the subjunctive clause, punk? Do you feel lucky?”
;^)
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Your attempts to refute are pointless.
Ya, I know MH. I had some teachers I wouldn’t trust with a handgun. Ms. Shears, our 72 year old Junior High physical sciences teacher was blind as a bat. Don’t think she would have qualified for a conceal and carry anyway.
Heck, she caught her self on fire twice in one semester from Bunsen burners. :D
would say that many school need a armed force to be on station, but that is totally different from teachers having guns. Having been around a middle school for years I can tell you that teacher are the ones keeping El-ly Lilly in business! Being hired killers are not some of the lessons that are taught in teacher’s classes.
Being armed take a certain mindset when it is you whom it is expected to be the one that rushes in while everyone else rushes out.
Considering what kind of animals you’re likely to find in America’s classrooms today, it may not be such a bad idea to “pack heat”. Schools are becoming dangerous places to work. I predict that like CCW, this policy change isn’t going to have an effect one way or the other. I doubt if there will be rivers of blood in the classrooms of Harrold, Texas.
In English Literature class, the teacher could pack an longbow?
Wow, what a setting: Boonies, Texas, with packing teachers. Far enough away from everything to make it distant enough to not effect the general public, but scoped enough to make it personal. Test kitchen, anyone? Welcome to the guvmint reality show!
One minor incident will kill that one in a New York minute.
North Texas school district will let teachers carry guns
Associated Press
Aug. 15, 2008, 4:27PM
HARROLD, Texas — A tiny Texas school district may be the first in the nation to allow teachers and staff to pack guns for protection when classes begin later this month, a newspaper reported.
Trustees at the Harrold Independent School District approved a district policy change last October so employees can carry concealed firearms to deter and protect against school shootings, provided the gun-toting teachers follow certain requirements.
In order for teachers and staff to carry a pistol, they must have a Texas license to carry a concealed handgun; must be authorized to carry by the district; must receive training in crisis management and hostile situations and have to use ammunition that is designed to minimize the risk of ricochet in school halls.
Superintendent David Thweatt said the small community is a 30-minute drive from the sheriff’s office, leaving students and teachers without protection. He said the district’s lone campus sits 500 feet from heavily trafficked U.S. 287, which could make it a target.
“When the federal government started making schools gun-free zones, that’s when all of these shootings started. Why would you put it out there that a group of people can’t defend themselves? That’s like saying ’sic ‘em’ to a dog,” Thweatt said in Friday’s online edition of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Thweatt said officials researched the policy and considered other options for about a year before approving the policy change. He said the district also has various other security measures in place to prevent a school shooting.
“The naysayers think (a shooting) won’t happen here. If something were to happen here, I’d much rather be calling a parent to tell them that their child is OK because we were able to protect them,” Thweatt said.
Texas law outlaws firearms on school campuses “unless pursuant to the written regulations or written authorization of the institution.”
It was unclear how many of the 50 or so teachers and staff members will be armed this fall because Thweatt did not disclose that information, to keep it from students or potential attackers. Wilbarger County Sheriff Larry Lee was out of the office Thursday and did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment, the newspaper said.
Barbara Williams, a spokeswoman for the Texas Association of School Boards, said her organization did not know of another district with such a policy. Ken Trump, a Cleveland-based school security expert who advises districts nationwide, including in Texas, said Harrold is the first district with such a policy.
The 110-student district is 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth on the eastern end of Wilbarger County, near the Oklahoma border.
(1) 30-minute drive from the sheriff’s office
(2) 500 feet from heavily trafficked U.S. 287, which could make it a target.
(3) When the federal government started making schools gun-free zones, that’s when all of these shootings started.
(4) 50 or so teachers and staff members
(5) 110-student district is 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth on the eastern end of Wilbarger County, near the Oklahoma border.
WOW………………….mccluer posts another entire article! Who would figure that happening?
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
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Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:10 am | Permalink
WOW………………….mccluer posts another entire article! Who would figure that happening?
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
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The people of Texas actually have cajones unlike the wimps in the Wichita School District. :D
Again mccluer, It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
You cannot justify the practice.
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Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:15 am | Permalink
Again mccluer, It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
You cannot justify the practice.
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I don’t have to justify the practice.
The people of HARROLD, Texas justified the practice – and, there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. :D
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Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:10 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Looks like the good folks in Texas disagree with you.
Leave it to Texas to take a direct, no-nonsense approach to a problem.
No, the superindent made that decision.
There may be nothing I can directly “do about it”, but I am a member of two national professional education organizations who can and hopefully will. A legal challenge is in order to protect the education professionals and children from this asinine decision.
As I predicted upthread, someone would start the usual ad hominem attacks when there futile attempts to justify the decision to “pack heat” in the schools could not stand up to logical scrutiny.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
XXX………….an incorrect and illogical decison doesn’t make it right or invalidate what I say.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:30 am | Permalink
XXX………….an incorrect and illogical decison doesn’t make it right or invalidate what I say.
I don’t know, Apophis…It seems like schools in America are rapidly becoming zoos. People who work in schools are becoming less like teachers and more like handlers.
XXX……………As you may or may not know, I have been an education professional for more than 25 years. True, the schools are not as disciplined as they were when I was attending but that doesn’t make “packing heat” the solution.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:39 am | Permalink
XXX……………As you may or may not know, I have been an education professional for more than 25 years.
For which you have my respect.
I watched an episode of “Caught on Camera” the other night. A kid waited outside a classroom for the teacher to come out. When she did, he blind-sided her and hit her in the face and tore her face open. They think he used brass knuckles. It required a lot of stitches. The teacher was in her 60s. The kid had one of his buddies film the assault on his cell phone. Somebody should have shot the little bastid.
“Somebody should have shot the little bastid.”
In a little town in Texas, it just might. Ain’t judging; just saying.
Whoever came up with this idea should be shot.
It’s a real shame that it’s even come to this. Schools should be a place where children should go to learn. Instead, they’ve become a dumping ground for society’s worst and most violent miscreants.
I’m all for it. And I have two kids in HS and one in elementary.
Time will tell if it’s effective. After a year, three years, five years…pre/post comparative vs. control.
XXX……..the event you desrcibe was definately wrong, but are you saying that the teacher should have SHOT the student(s)?
That’s the issue before us.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 9:13 am | Permalink
XXX……..the event you desrcibe was definately wrong, but are you saying that the teacher should have SHOT the student(s)?
Indeed, that’s exactly what I’m saying. If somebody sucker-punched me in the face with brass knuckles, they’d be sporting a lead enema pretty quick.
XXX, agreed.
That’d be my first reaction too, XXX.
But . . . if the perps suspected you had a gun, and wanted to do you harm, they’d just shoot you first.
That’s the problem with violence. Violent people just take it to the next level.
The stupidest thing I can imagine are the “gun free” zones. That creates a target for a crazed idiot that wants to recreate Columbine.
At least that school in Texas won’t be a ‘gun free target zone’.
Boredom ad nauseum, that what can be expected out of Apophis.
“There may be nothing I can directly “do about it”, but I am a member of two national professional education organizations”
That’s right Oedipus…there is nothing you can do about it. You have no stake in it as it is not your school, school district, board, county or state. Ha! Impotent as usual. And again you total persona is “I am a member of two national professional education organizations”, what a pimp.
And then he tells Regular, “You really have no right to say “I don’t have a problem with it”.”
And just why not? Regular can’t have an opinion? Typical of a DemLib Socialist to disallow someone else a voice if they disagree.
The pimp posts, “You are not a licensed professional who has an ethical and legal responsibility to the children and young adults in your classroom”.
But you do Apophis, and what worse you fail at it miserably.
Arm the shop teacher with a chain saw?
It’s Texas, after all.
The dallas paper whines:
“Injecting firearms into a school setting opens the door to tragic but avoidable accidents…”
They are behind the curve..it is the crazies with guns that have ‘injected’ firearms into the school settings.
2/14/08, 5 killed in DeKalb, IL
2/12/08, 1 killed in Oxnard, CA
2/11/08, 1 wounded in Memphis, TN
2/8/08, 3 killed in Baton Rouge, LA
10/10/07, 4 injured in Cleveland OH
9/21/07, 2 wounded in Dover DE
You get the picture. The teachers have not ‘injected’ weapons into the school setting… they might be able to protect potential innocent victims.
“Teachers with pistols — what a great learning environment for kids.”
Yeah.
Texas, it’s like a whole ‘nother planet.
I think it’s great. They are thirty minutes from any cop. Good for them.
God, why did you water down this country from a ragtag group of patriots and pioneers to a bunch of wimpering coward’s that demand that some Superman come and save them?
A country filled with victim-disarmament zones. We’re asking for hell to come.
That’s exactly what democrats are: victims.
CapnAmerica
Posted August 23, 2008 at 9:22 am | Permalink
That’d be my first reaction too, XXX.
But . . . if the perps suspected you had a gun, and wanted to do you harm, they’d just shoot you first.
Capn, that plays to the “concealed” part of CCW. Not all CCW-types brag about or advertise that they’re carrying.
I think you’ll find that more children die most years during football practice than are killed by in-school gun incidents. School shootings are another of our unreasonable fears; the fast food in the vending machines in the halls will do more damage in a day than all the school shooters in the U.S. do in a year.
beber,
And pancreatic cancer isn’t even near the top of the list of diseases that kill the most people.
So, do we stop trying to prevent it?
“So, do we stop trying to prevent it?
” — golf
Not if the “cure” kills more people than the disease. If you arm thousands of high school teachers accidents will happen.
The bottom line –
There’s no situation in the world where the addition of a gun improves circumstances.
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beber
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:26 am | Permalink
“So, do we stop trying to prevent it?
” — golf
Not if the “cure” kills more people than the disease. If you arm thousands of high school teachers accidents will happen.
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More wild arm flailing.
It’s one small district in Texas.
Actually, they need to allow teachers in inner city schools to carry weapons.
The open gang activity, in some of our schools, is a real problem.
Also, school shootings happen because even the crazy people who go there, to shoot kids, do not want anyone to shoot back.
Apophis
You do not get to determine what is and what is not appropriate.
I think this is the beginning of a trend.
It is a good thing.
“Not all CCW-types brag about or advertise that they’re carrying.” — xxx
And not all the CCW types on this board who brag about packing actually do. In fact, I doubt many of them could get a permit, especially if they had to pass any sort of psychological screening.
Boxlock
Posted August 23, 2008 at 9:25 am | Permalink
Boredom ad nauseum, that what can be expected out of Apophis.
“There may be nothing I can directly “do about it”, but I am a member of two national professional education organizations”
That’s right Oedipus…there is nothing you can do about it. You have no stake in it as it is not your school, school district, board, county or state. Ha! Impotent as usual. And again you total persona is “I am a member of two national professional education organizations”, what a pimp.
And then he tells Regular, “You really have no right to say “I don’t have a problem with it”.”
And just why not? Regular can’t have an opinion? Typical of a DemLib Socialist to disallow someone else a voice if they disagree.
The pimp posts, “You are not a licensed professional who has an ethical and legal responsibility to the children and young adults in your classroom”.
But you do Apophis, and what worse you fail at it miserably.
****************************************************************
Here come the ad hominem attacks right on cue and from an expected source.
Boxtop, many stupid decisions such as this are made at the local level, but again that doesn’t make them correct. Every educator in this country has a vested interest in this asinine event. I would expect court challenges to this “local” decision. Try to remember Kitzmiller v. Dover where the religious reich got their asses kicked a few years back.
Here’s an idea boxtop, why don’t you meet me in person and see how long your “tough guy” attitude holds up little man. Make all the inferences you want about that statement…………………..
Oh boxtop, I’m still waiting for you tp present that dossier you claim to be compiling on me. I know that the BOE likes a little humor now and then little man. You’re nothing but a loud mouthed, reichwing thug “wannabe”.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
“It’s one small district in Texas” — Regular.
That’s true Regular, but it certainly gets the “packin’ solves all problems” crowd’s jaws a flappin’
It will be interesting to see if the district can find a single teacher who’s willing to pack. Of course, there’s always one.
Franklin
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:29 am | Permalink
Apophis
You do not get to determine what is and what is not appropriate.
I think this is the beginning of a trend.
It is a good thing.
*******************************************************************
Actually rosell, I DO get to determine “what is and what is not appropriate” in my profession.
…………….LOL, you have NO idea!
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beber
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:26 am | Permalink
If you arm thousands of high school teachers accidents will happen.
That sounds a lot like the argument against CCW. How did that turn out? I have yet to see the rivers of blood in the streets.
Apophis…ok, you have made your grand statement NINE TIMES now. Has it changed anything either here or in Texas? Nope.
You are starting to sound like a little kid who says “MOM, MOM, MOM, MOM, MOM” eighty times.
Everyone is entitled to their OPINION..but posted and reposting and reposting it NINETY times won’t change anyone else’s mind.
Puff
It is totally inappropriate for a licensed educator to believe that people do not have the right to govern themselves.
This is non of your businesses, other than as a talking point.
That you threaten court legal action against the sovereign decisions of an area completely outside of the jurisdiction or your school districts shows what a tyrant you really are.
Aphophis..
Your prediction of “Most likely, this will turn into a teacher bashing, ad hominem filled thread that will be pointless within a few hours”
hasn’t come true. Course, by repeating yourself another couple dozen times could make it come true!
For once, I whole heartedly agree with the liberals on this thread.
It is entirely inappropriate to allow teachers to carry concealed in schools.
Really, are they out of their minds down in Texas?
On another thread today we have an example of the ‘professional’ behavior of two of our education professionals. Yelling, cussing, pushing, shoving all ending in one of them ‘mooning’ the other one!
What if they would have had guns!
Then on this thread we have the perfect example of an ‘educational professional’! Don’t you think we should find teachers that can actually form a sentence before we allow them to be armed?
Teacher with a gun?
Reminds me of the song by Jim Stafford,
Forty shots rang out
Forty people fell
Cow Patti and the killer missed each other
but they shot that town to hell!
The pimp Apophis posts;
“Here’s an idea boxtop, why don’t you meet me in person and see how long your “tough guy” attitude holds up little man. Make all the inferences you want about that statement…………………..”
Hum….does that sound like a threat? I know not like very much of one considering the ass that comment comes out of. Sounds like the rantings of someone that knows his impotent in about everything and that’s all he’s got to pump up his self-respect or lack thereof.
Sure Oedipus….who are you and where are you.
And the ‘who are you’ will get you your wish of the ‘dossier’ turned in by the way.
HLP
Good point.
CCW laws require that we check the mental stability of the permit holder.
Perhaps Apophis knows himself well, and should not carry a weapon, much like that debate coach should not carry a weapon.
But, Apophis does not get to decide for all teachers.
And, YES, I DO have an idea about you, Apophis. You have an inflated opinion of your labor unions.
You belong to a labor union no different from the Teamsters or the Coal Miners or the Machinists.
Your Union is focused, primarily, on YOUR pay and benefits.
It is also the fault of your Union that it is so hard to fire or otherwise terminate mentally unstable or unworthy teachers.
I fully understand that large organizations, large employers, frequently need a labor union to keep management in line, and force management to follow some reasonable rules.
However, don’t tell me that your Labor Union is an advocate for Children.
That is pure bull.
“Time will tell if it’s effective. After a year, three years, five years…pre/post comparative vs. control.”
No way in Hell. Even the entire country would not be an adequate sample size to justify a comparison. School shootings are just not that common.
Furthermore, the last thing I would ever want is a teacher who was prepared to shoot one of his/her students. The teaching relationship should leave no room for that. It has no application for discipline.
If a student comes to school with a gun, I want a teacher who is prepared to shoot that student.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The greater good DEMANDS that the violent student be eliminated, by any means necessary.
Weren’t many of these same types of arguments posted when the FAA decided to allow trained and interested pilots to carry concealed? I don’t seem to remember any mass shootings on planes or pilots shooting unruly passengers. There was one incident a little while ago, I seem to remember, about one shot going off? Nothing near the predictions of doom and mass casualties put out initially.
I would bet Apophis could NEVER pass the necessary background and competency checks to obtain a CCW license.
I can’t believe they gave him a teaching certificate in the first place…desperate I guess.
By the way Apophis, I hold not only a CCW License but also a Federal Firearms License….choke on that awhile.
“If a student comes to school with a gun, I want a teacher who is prepared to shoot that student.”
That’s not their job. Their job is to try to get the other students to safety rather than taking a shot at the armed student. The vast majority of teachers (and I have professional experience in this area) are not built to shoot first and ask questions later, particularly when they are confronted with their student.
“There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.”
Yes there is, single sentence shallow talking point man. Most schools are substantially increasing their security through common sense (and even more than common sense) precautions. Arming teachers is an absurd alternative when others exist.
“The greater good DEMANDS that the violent student be eliminated, by any means necessary.”
Any means necessary has consequences. The best solution, and one that usually works, is preventing the armed student from getting in the door, and having a rapid response if he does. And there are alternatives, such as single points of entrance (particularly when students are in school), SRO’s, and rapid communication and resulting security plans.
“Your Union is focused, primarily, on YOUR pay and benefits.”
I’m sorry Franklin, that statement is totally wrong. The teacher’s unions are primarily concerned with the election of leftist, Marxist politicians.
From the WSJ:
Wall Street Journal: If we told you that an organization gave away more than $65 million last year to Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International, AIDS Walk Washington and dozens of other such advocacy groups, you’d probably assume we were describing a liberal philanthropy. In fact, those expenditures have all turned up on the financial disclosure report of the National Education Association, the country’s largest teachers union.
Under new federal rules pushed through by Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao, large unions must now disclose in much more detail how they spend members’ dues money. Big Labor fought hard (if unsuccessfully) against the new accountability standards, and even a cursory glance at the NEA’s recent filings–the first under the new rules–helps explain why. They expose the union as a honey pot for left-wing political causes that have nothing to do with teachers, much less students.
We already knew that the NEA’s top brass lives large. Reg Weaver, the union’s president, makes $439,000 a year. The NEA has a $58 million payroll for just over 600 employees, more than half of whom draw six-figure salaries. Last year the average teacher made only $48,000, so it seems you’re better off working as a union rep than in the classroom.
Many of the organization’s disbursements–$30,000 to the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association, $122,000 to the Center for Teaching Quality–at least target groups that ostensibly have a direct educational mission. But many others are a stretch, to say the least. The NEA gave $15,000 to the Human Rights Campaign, which lobbies for “lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender equal rights.” The National Women’s Law Center, whose Web site currently features a “pocket guide” to opposing Supreme Court nominee Sam Alito, received $5,000. And something called the Fund to Protect Social Security got $400,000, presumably to defeat personal investment accounts.
The new disclosure rules mark the first revisions since 1959 and took effect this year. “What wasn’t clear before is how much of a part the teachers unions play in the wider liberal movement and the Democratic Party,” says Mike Antonucci of the Education Intelligence Agency, a California-based watchdog group. “They’re like some philanthropic organization that passes out grant money to interest groups.”
There’s been a lot in the news recently about published opinion that parallels donor politics. Well, last year the NEA gave $45,000 to the Economic Policy Institute, which regularly issues reports that claim education is underfunded and teachers are underpaid. The partisans at People for the American Way got a $51,000 NEA contribution; PFAW happens to be vehemently anti-voucher.
The extent to which the NEA sends money to states for political agitation is also revealing. For example, Protect Our Public Schools, an anti-charter-school group backed by the NEA’s Washington state affiliate, received $500,000 toward its efforts to block school choice for underprivileged children. (Never mind that charter schools are public schools.) And the Floridians for All Committee, which focuses on “the construction of a permanent progressive infrastructure that will help redirect Florida politics in a more progressive, Democratic direction,” received a $249,000 donation from NEA headquarters.
When George Soros does this sort of thing, at least he’s spending his own money. The NEA is spending the mandatory dues paid by members who are told their money will be used to gain better wages, benefits and working conditions. According to the latest filing, member dues accounted for $295 million of the NEA’s $341 million in total receipts last year. But the union spent $25 million of that on “political activities and lobbying” and another $65.5 million on “contributions, gifts and grants” that seemed designed to further those hyper-liberal political goals.
The good news is that for the first time members can find out how their union chieftains did their political thinking for them, by going to http://www.union-reports.dol.gov, where the Labor Department has posted the details.
Union officials claim that they favored such transparency all along, but the truth is they fought the new rules hard in both Congress and the courts. Originally, the AFL-CIO said detailed disclosures were too expensive, citing compliance costs in excess of $1 billion. The final bill turned out to be $54,000, or half of what the unions spent on litigation fighting the new requirements. When Secretary Chao refused to back down, the unions took her to court, and lost.
It’s well understood that the NEA is an arm of the Democratic National Committee. (Or is it the other way around?) But we wonder if the union’s rank-and-file stand in unity behind this laundry list of left-to-liberal recipients of money that comes out of their pockets.
Necessary means that, necessary.
It might not be necessary to shoot the violent student, but if it is?
There is nothing wrong with that option.
Who are the libs to tell us what is and what is not the job of a teacher?
We have turned them into social workers and record keepers and surrogate parents, already.
If some wish to arm themselves?
That is a good idea.
What a wonderful thing. Now if only we could start getting all the schools to not only allow teachers to carry concealed, but anyone who has a license to carry concealed inside school as well.
We need to get a few facts straight here:
The teachers are not forced to be armed. Probably only a few will be armed. The teachers who wish to be armed still have to have a concealed carry license to do so.
All the arguments about accidents, guns being taken away, and other “bad” things happening have been made in every state every time a concealed carry law was about to be passed.
Guess what? Here we are about 2 years into Kansas having concealed carry and we don’t see all these horrible things happening that you anti-gun people have argued would. You would be hard pressed to find even one example of the things you anti-gun people were saying would happen.
I keep hearing over and over again that guns shouldn’t be in schools. Why? You keep saying it, but you have yet to explain why or give a valid argument for why.
There is nothing magical about a school which makes it immune to gun violence. Actually, if you want to see where most of these public shootings are taking place, look at the schools. Apparently someone forgot to tell all these crazy killers that bringing a gun to school is just so inappropriate. LOL
Maybe all these crazy people shooting up schools just missed the sign that said no guns or gun free zone?
Sorry to have to tell you liberal anti-gun people this, but, signs and good feelings do not stop crazy people from bringing a gun to school and shooting as many people as they can or want to. Another person with a gun can and will be able to though.
It has also been said that adding a gun to any situation will never help. That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. If you have any will to live or defend yourself or your family from someone doing them harm, how on Earth can you say that having a gun will not help?
A gun is one of the most effective ways of being able to protect yourself, your family, or anyone else from someone who wants to do them harm.
Only an idiot can sit here and say that a gun will never help. You obviously have no clue about self defense to make such absurd statements.
So, is anyone here who is against concealed carry in schools able to present an actual argument for why? Simply saying so doesn’t make it true. Lets see some logic and reasoning here.
“We have turned them into social workers and record keepers and surrogate parents, already.”
Exactly. They are little more than sheep ready to be lead to slaughter. We need to protect them. We do not need to put them in a position that requires making a ‘life and death’ decision.
We have volunteers in school now. We have teachers aids. We also have citizens that are already qualified to carry firearms. Retired policemen, servicemen, maybe we could get them to volunteer.
But teachers? I wouldn’t trust them.
Agnatha…
When you wrote in part, “… preventing the armed student from getting in the door, and having a rapid response if he does…”
you addressed EXACTLY the reason this remote Texas school district approved arming teachers. They do not have a chance of a ‘rapid reponse’ since law enforcement estimates a 30 minute response time.
A dedicated killer can kill a lot of people in 30 minutes.
If Jim Mc’Gee, Goddard Junior High School Principal, had have had access to a firearm James Alan Kearbey likely would not have shot him though the chest with a 7.62×51mm, M1-A rifle, killing him and wounding two other teachers and a student.
And society would have been spared the loss of an excellent Principle and supporting a murderer for all those years.
It requires a brainless paranoiac mentality to believe that this somehow makes the schools safer. It’s not remotely close to logical.
That’s all I have to say.
If Jim Mc’Gee, Goddard Junior High School Principal, had have had access to a firearm James Alan Kearbey likely would not have shot him though the chest with a 7.62×51mm, M1-A rifle, killing him and wounding two other teachers and a student.
Right. . .he would have used his piece to block the bullets, in “Wonder Woman” fashion.
Moron.
“Who are the libs to tell us what is and what is not the job of a teacher?
We have turned them into social workers and record keepers and surrogate parents, already.”
And with ‘teachers’ like Apophis, anything but good educators.
Sorry to be so blunt….but that’s an honest opinion. He sees his function as being a socialist..social engineer.
“Now if only we could start getting all the schools to not only allow teachers to carry concealed, but anyone who has a license to carry concealed inside school as well.”
Uh..who is that? Anybody who wanders in off the street? Disgruntled parents? You? What business would you have in a school?
I can’t think of very many of the gun nuts who post here that I would want anywhere NEAR my kid’s school.
“Right. . .he would have used his piece to block the bullets, in “Wonder Woman” fashion.”
No Maroon…Kearbey would likely never have entered the school with a rifle knowing he would likely encounter armed defense.
Worse case, Mc’Gee would not have had to confront him standing in the hall with nothing but words to deflect the bullet.
BlueJay posts;
“I can’t think of very many of the gun nuts who post here that I would want anywhere NEAR my kid’s school.”
I am confident there are a lot of folks, your son’s teachers included, that don’t want you BlueJay anywhere around an impressionable kid.
No Maroon…Kearbey would likely never have entered the school with a rifle knowing he would likely encounter armed defense.
. . . and now you’re an armchair psychologist.
I swear, I think some people believe life imitates TV.
“You addressed EXACTLY the reason this remote Texas school district approved arming teachers. They do not have a chance of a ‘rapid reponse’ since law enforcement estimates a 30 minute response time.
“A dedicated killer can kill a lot of people in 30 minutes.”
Then hire a person to provide security. Or, designate one person, an adminstrator preferrably, who would be willing to be armed and trained to act in the capacity of an SRO if such a horrible eventuality were to come to pass (I think the latter solution would be a bad one, but better than arming teachers).
The only ones nutty about guns on this thread are the ones that are against anyone having a gun any time.
Boxlock, Nathan and I have all been licensed by the state to carry our handguns concealed. We are licensed by the State of Kansas!
Thorough back ground checks. Classroom training with a written test that does not allow one wrong answer. Followed by a practical teat at the firing range.
Nuts?
LOL
Get over yourselves.
Should be “a SRO” (was responding mentally phonetically to “ess ar o”).
Okay: Really my last comment.
Agnatha addressed security upthread. I dislike the idea of armed guards and metal detectors (what are we telling our kids when schools become prisons?).
But if someone needs to be packing heat, it should be their job to do so.
ah raptor………………JUST as I predicted: teacher bashing and ad hominem attacks.
I predicted to my spouse, before I went out to cut the grass, that boxtop would infer what I posted as threat. Violent peole like boxtop only think in violent terms. I could have been challenging you to a public debate. By the way, I would slice and dice your logic to pieces in short order boxtop. I’d have you close to tears in no time. Illogical people like you go to pieces pretty easily in my experience.
The invitation still stands boxtop. Man up or STFU.
For the record, I’m not opposed to Conceal Carry in principle. [see boxtop, THIS the correct usage of the word....not as you used in place of PRINCIPAL as you did in your 11:53 post. I knew the man, did you?]. If you feel like you have to pack heat, well whatever. It doesn’t make the world any safer.
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
I’ll keep posting that statement over and over because not one person can post anything to justify the action. Sorry if it annoys you Raptor.
Again, we are not “arming” teachers in this case. We are simply allowing those teachers who have a license to carry concealed to do so in school.
semantics little-boy price
Rage,
Having a gun is one of the most effective means of self defense from someone who want to do you or others harm.
It is a very effective tool to use to have to stop someone who is trying to kill you.
It makes perfect sense for anyone who wishes to be able to defend themselves, their family, or others from those that would do them harm, to use a gun.
The only question is why are you and so many others so opposed to this? That is what makes no sense.
“t makes perfect sense for anyone who wishes to be able to defend themselves, their family, or others from those that would do them harm, to use a gun.”
I prefer to ask, what is it you do and who is it you are that you are constantly in fear for your life? Seek help for THAT. Don’t bring a gun in my kid’s school. You’ve no business there anyway.
Oedipus posts;
“boxtop would infer what I posted as threat.”
“Here’s an idea boxtop, why don’t you meet me in person and see how long your “tough guy” attitude holds up little man. Make all the inferences you want about that statement…………………..”
Uh huh, sure sounds like were challenging me to a ‘public debate’.
Let’s add liar to your list of character ‘attributes’.
Apophis, that’s one for the dossier.
It is totally inappropriate for any teacher to tell other teachers that they can not defend themselves, or their students.
t is a very effective tool to use to have to stop someone who is trying to kill you.
I’ll go out on a limb. . .someone who is crazy enough to enter a public school armed and try to kill you isn’t that likely to be deterred by the presence of a few random guns. A roughly equal possibility: an exchange of gunfire, maybe extended. We could see something like attacker dead. Teacher dead. Student dead, another injured.
As any responsible gun owner knows, bullets keep going. Hell, our supposed licensed marksman might nail someone in the parking lot!
Or his foot.
. .. or, if the teacher is the one who goes on a rampage, what then?
Funny how some people try to make this a gun-rights issue.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
ah raptor………………JUST as I predicted: teacher bashing and ad hominem attacks.
________________________________________________
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 6:47 am | Permalink
Most likely, this will turn into a teacher bashing, ad hominem filled thread that will be pointless within a few hours. When the price family criminals start chiming in, this thread is over.
__________________________________________________
Think about it people! We have an unstable nimrod that can’t whine about ad hominem attacks without adding one to the very same paragraph!
And, if you are to believe this ‘professional’s’ bleeting he is some of the best there is!
You want fools like this to have guns?
Left out a word…typing too fast. Should read;
“Uh huh, sure sounds like YOU were challenging me to a ‘public debate’, NOT!“
I prefer to ask, what is it you do and who is it you are that you are constantly in fear for your life? Seek help for THAT. Don’t bring a gun in my kid’s school. You’ve no business there anyway.
That’s the key question. Hell, I’ve been face-to-face with gang-bangers in my own neighborhood, and was less of a chickenshit than these folks.
You want fools like this to have guns?
Heh, Hank, humor aside, it’s a thought.
P.S. Since you folks love to argue by anecdote, think Columbine.
Those two didn’t stop killing until the SWAT team took them out, and had every intention of dying in the process.
Thought the gun free zone was a fed. reg.
…………..put whatever you want in your little dossier boxtop. Be sure that your wearing that tinfoil hat when you’re presenting it to the BOE. I’m sure President Lynn Rogers and Vice-President of the BOE Barbara Fuller will get a good kick out it! They both know me very well.
……………old man price, you are acting out just as predicted! It is required that I get in a pre-emptive strike here because EVERYTHING you post is either a lie or personal attack if the poster isn’t of your narrow-minded world view.
It will ensure that teachers are perceived as the shooters first target.
Rage…they shot themselves after running out of targets.
Hey Apophis..I take it reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit? HLP AGREED WITH YOU about teachers being armed…yet you attack him anyway.
Weird.
Phantom, it is a Fed reg., but there is a loophole that might make this legal.
Of course “legal” doesn’t make it intelligent, neccessary or wise.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:30 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
——————————————————————————–
Why?
Apophis’ statement is the very center of the gun-banners argument – there are never any rational reasons to support their statements.
Take any school shooting, and that is an example of why a teacher should be allowed to defend himself/herself and others. From Columbine, to VT, to NIU, a nearby teacher with a gun could have saved the lives of several children and teachers.
The gun banners “rationale” is that People Do Not Have The Right To Self-Defense – period. Thank God most People think they have the right to defend themselves. If the gun-banners get their way, we would be under complete control of Government or anyone else who held weapons against us.
Raptor…………….he only agreed with me because he lives in a world of assumptions.
assumption 1: All educators are liberals – boy, wouldn’t THAT be wonderful!
assumption 2: All liberals hate guns – I own three myself.
assumption 3: He thinks he is correct about everything. If you followed through the posts AFTER his alleged agreement with me, he attacked me personally and the NEA in general. I knew it was coming. It is so predictable.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:29 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
———————————————————————–
No matter how many times a statement is repeated, REPETITION does not make the statement true.
(Sounds like a parrot, doesn’t it?)
……………..madmax, how could I be a “gunbanner” when I own firearms myself?
Because someone may have a gun someone else should have a gun?
Violence begets violence and never begets peace.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:39 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
===========================================================================
8:29
8:30
8:39
I hear a Brady Campaign Parrot!!!!
No matter how many times a statement is repeated, REPETITION does not make the statement true.
(Sounds like a parrot, doesn’t it?)
I can just hear the p.a. system: “Shots reportedly fired, all teachers assume your vantage points!”
No matter how many times a statement is repeated, REPETITION does not make the statement true.
(Sounds like a parrot, doesn’t it??)
lindainks55
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
Because someone may have a gun someone else should have a gun?
Violence begets violence and never begets peace.
———————————————————————
Oh, what does beget peace?
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:37 pm | Permalink
…………..put whatever you want in your little dossier boxtop. Be sure that your wearing that tinfoil hat when you’re presenting it to the BOE. I’m sure President Lynn Rogers and Vice-President of the BOE Barbara Fuller will get a good kick out it! They both know me very well.
———————————–
Let me know if you need any lip balm.
Smooching buttocks like that can give you chapped lips. :)
….jealous mccluer?
I’m out of here for the afternoon…….more tile shopping.
Keep up the teacher bashing and gun nuttiness!
Monkeyhawk
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:27 am | Permalink
The bottom line –
There’s no situation in the world where the addition of a gun improves circumstances.
———————————————————————-
See, more sweeping generalizations. Barf…..
Not one situation, EVER, on the entire planet, right Monkey?
#
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:53 pm | Permalink
….jealous mccluer?
I’m out of here for the afternoon…….more tile shopping.
Keep up the teacher bashing and gun nuttiness!
——————–
Why would I be jealous of a middle school penis holder?
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:32 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
———————————————————————-
4 times!
8:29
8:30
8:39
10:32
I hear a Brady Campaign Parrot!!!!
No matter how many times a statement is repeated, REPETITION does not make the statement true.
(Sounds like a parrot, doesn’t it???)
How many calculators and cell phones would be mistaken for weapons to the untrained eye?
Franklin
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:36 am | Permalink
Puff
It is totally inappropriate for a licensed educator to believe that people do not have the right to govern themselves.
This is non of your businesses, other than as a talking point.
That you threaten court legal action against the sovereign decisions of an area completely outside of the jurisdiction or your school districts shows what a tyrant you really are.
===========================================================
FANTAASTIC POST! Some are so desparate to Control others, so Desparate they would try to take away rights from people from another State!
The Right of Self Defense existed long before the US Constitution.
I disagree with you Nathan. Teachers should all be forced to be armed.
If they are not competent enough to operate a gun, they are not competent enough to teach my kids.
The sad thing is this thread is necessary. On one hand, we have the government playing out a grand experiment using teachers, students and guns as the players. On the other hand, we have both sides of the argument, some making good points; others pointless.
When paranoia jumps to the level guns are required for teachers to protect themselves, as well as the students, there is a major problem in this country. And it’s not the teachers unions, the teachers, government or politics: It’s the parents.
When a 15 year old girl is shot at an underage drinking party, whose fault is it? When some 13 year old girl is raped by some internet predator, whose fault is it? When some 14 year old kid shoots students at school, whose fault is it?
IT’S THE FREAKIN’ PARENTS FAULT!
Start making parents, both the mother and father, even if they’re split, fully responsible for their offspring. Lack of discipline, lack of care, lack of control = guns in school. Stupid.
Linda,
Would you try to defend yourself if someone was attacking you or just lay there and let them hurt or kill you? What about your family? Your grandkids?
Would you just sit there and watch someone kill the ones you love most or would you do anything you could to save them?
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 23, 2008 at 1:08 pm | Permalink
I disagree with you Nathan. Teachers should all be forced to be armed.
If they are not competent enough to operate a gun, they are not competent enough to teach my kids.
========================================================
I expect you would have them teach only max approved courses, eat only max approved lunches and donate to only max approved charities. Welcome to maxnaziworld.
Being the alpha-bi**h of your pack must takes it’s toll, huh max?
Apophis:
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
I’ll keep posting that statement over and over because not one person can post anything to justify the action.
Answer:
A firearm Instructor.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
I’ll keep posting that statement over and over because not one person can post anything to justify the action. Sorry if it annoys you Raptor.
——————————————————————
5 Times!
He’ll keep posting this statement over and over, BECAUSE He Has No Supporting Rationale Behind His Statement!
What a Parrot!
8:29
8:30
8:39
10:32
12:11
OMG! Apophis is a teacher?????
Scary to see who is teaching our children!
No matter how many times a statement is repeated, REPETITION does not make the statement true.
(Sounds like a parrot, doesn’t it????)
How about this?
Would you want the Police Officers to use violence to stop someone trying to hurt or kill you and your family?
It is one thing to sit here and say violence only begets violence, but do you really believe that?
Will you really play the role of the pacifist as someone is killing your family? Will you sit there being upset with the Police Officers for using violence to stop those hurting or killing your family?
Nathan, if you would just reason with your attacker, smile at them, tell them some nice things, THAT will bring peace.
Talk to them about their childhood, and drill down to the root cause of what caused them to become a criminal. Show them the evils of their ways….
Rage,
You bring up Columbine as if it was proof of your point?
How is that?
If there was an armed teacher there they might have been able to stop those two kids BEFORE they were able to kill as many as they did.
While those two kids were walking around executing students as if it were a casual walk people like you sit here saying that someone having a gun wouldn’t have helped?
Maybe it is because you have no clue of how to use a gun that you have no idea just how effective one can be to defend yourself or others from people like those two kids.
You would rather these crazy people just casually stroll around and kill people until the organized SWAT team shows up or the crazy kills himself or runs out of ammo instead of give an honest law abiding citizen the ability to have a gun to defend themselves.
It is absurd.
Then pull our your 45, and blow them away!
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 23, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Permalink
Then pull our your 45, and blow them away!
===========================================================
Are all neo-cons this paranoid? I doubt they even know it, let alone control it.
Just because you are paranoid
doesn’t mean they are not out to get you!
Linda
Violence is often the only solution, when confronted with violence.
Doing nothing only gives more power to the criminals.
Some would prefer to wear rose colored glasses.
If I’ve never been endangered before, no criminals attacked me yet, what me worry?
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Just make flax jackets standard issue for students and faculty alike.
Phantom,
It is called a flak jacket and they are designed to stop shrapnel and other types of indirect objects. They are not designed to stop bullets.
JM Walker,
What does paranoia have to do with anything? Is someone paranoid when they have smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in their home?
Carrying a gun doesn’t make me paranoid. It makes me prepared and more able to defend myself, my family, or others from someone that would do us harm.
The AP article linked to leaves a lot out of this story. The school in the story has some pretty impressive safety procedures in place. Pass card entrance through one door only. Video cameras galore. Every door in the school can be locked down from a central location. There are enough school buses kept on site to evacuate all staff and students in case of a train derailment causing a hazmat spill(they are also very near a major rail corridor). Off course they have the normal storm and fire warning systems as well.
This is not a school that takes safety procedures halfheartedly. They spent over a year considering arming staff, as well as other alternatives.
The chances of a fire, tornado, hazmat spill, school shooter are all very small. The cost of their preperations is very high. Is it worth it? You only know if a disaster happens. Are they all paranoid? Only if nothing happens. Are they prepared? Yeah.
Apop,
After watching what some teachers did to students, maybe just shooting the kid would be more humane.
“And with ‘teachers’ like Apophis, anything but good educators.
Sorry to be so blunt….but that’s an honest opinion. He sees his function as being a socialist..social engineer.”
So, tell us, Boxlock, do you KNOW Apophis, that you can post to this Blog that he sees his function as being a socalist?? Seems to me that you would have to KNOW the person, before you are competent to make such a statement. I strongly feel you should present your “file” on Apophis to the BOE, and let them deal with it — However, it is highly likely that you would be the butt of many jokes, if you actually did such a thing… :roll:
#
Nathaniel
Posted August 23, 2008 at 2:11 pm | Permalink
JM Walker,
What does paranoia have to do with anything? Is someone paranoid when they have smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in their home?
Carrying a gun doesn’t make me paranoid. It makes me prepared and more able to defend myself, my family, or others from someone that would do us harm.
====================================================
Nathan, you can call it what you want, but when someone resorts to protection via the gun route you have chosen, I have to believe there is some paranoia involved. I can quite well handle myself, and have never seriously considered getting a CCL. While I agree there are some bad elements out there, the old west comeback is something I would rather not participate in, thank you very much.
I will watch the Texas episode unfold with interest; I hope it is never necessary for a teacher to use deadly force. I expect if it is, it will open a Pandora’s box.
Nathan,
“It is called a flak jacket and they are designed to stop shrapnel and other types of indirect objects. They are not designed to stop bullets.”
Then why do police wear them? Damn little shrapnel on the streets of Wichita.
JM Walker,
Again, you didn’t explain why I am paranoid or why there is “some” paranoia involved.
You don’t have to participate in getting a concealed carry license. The question is, why are you so against others having theirs or being able to use them in a school?
We have concealed carry in nearly every state now and I have yet to see a return to the “wild West” like people like you keep saying.
How can you sit there and hope it is never necessary for a teacher to use deadly force when it is already proven that teachers have already been confronted with needing to use deadly force, they just don’t have any means to do so.
Everywhere from Columbine to VT. Teachers and Students both NEEDED to use deadly force, but had none.
Adn people like you would like to keep it that way?
For as much as you say I am paranoid for carry concealed, I can easily ask you why you are so scared of allowing others to do so?
Jed,
Police don’t wear flak jackets. They wear bullet proof vests or more accurately called body armor. No such thing as a truly “bullet proof” vest.
Even in my Debate Class where my teacher was against Concealed Carry at first, he finally conceded the point that as much as he doesn’t really see a need for it, he doesn’t really have an argument against it either.
So you don’t like concealed carry. Don’t carry concealed. Why do you want to stop everyone else from doing so?
Wichita PD do not wear flak jackets. They wear bullet resistant vests. Totally different type of protective clothing.
Nathan, I don’t have to explain my beliefs, just as you don’t have to explain yours. I never said I was against CCL or teachers carrying guns, but I question why this is happening.
Where are the parents in all of this? Why can’t they keep their kids under control enough to teach them right from wrong? It ain’t happening, and it won’t until parents are held responsible for their kids actions. What we have now is pablum compared to what should be happening. Guidance seems to be a side-bar, not a necessity in today’s society. Hence, teachers carry guns. If that isn’t a basic condemnation of society, I don’t know what is.
JM Walker,
No, teachers who have a concealed carry lisence, may carry their guns to school. As I think everyone should be allowed to do if they have their license.
You didn’t have to say if you were for or against the concealed carry. Your writing conveys the underlying thought. When you characterize those who carry as paranoid, how am I supposed to take it?
No you don’t “have” to explain yourself here. However, what is the point in espousing your opinion on a public blog if you can’t back it up or don’t intend to?
Sheeesh, Nathan, I explained everything you need to understand. That you choose not to is not my problem.
My point, again, is where are the parents, and why aren’t they being held accountable for this mess? You beg us to believe you’re against abortion, but you hold the belief teachers can carry concealed weapons that might be used to shoot those same kids saved from abortion. Somehow, I don’t see the connection between save em now, shoot em later. That sort of reasoning is too far out in right field for me to accept that as either an excuse or a reason.
Again: Where are the parents?
Chas posts;
“So, tell us, Boxlock, do you KNOW Apophis, that you can post to this Blog that he sees his function as being a socalist?? Seems to me that you would have to KNOW the person, before you are competent to make such a statement. I strongly feel you should present your “file” on Apophis to the BOE, and let them deal with it — However, it is highly likely that you would be the butt of many jokes, if you actually did such a thing… :roll:”
Apophis has admitted…no bragged that he is doing what he can to indoctrinate kids with his liberal/socialist views. He said it.
Pay attention Chas if you can, if you are even able anymore.
And as I said, as soon as I can find out who he is, as in a name, I will seriously consider submitting some of the foul mouthed, at times threatening (as his post of 11:12 am) and always childish comments he has made on this blog. I think the ‘board’ would like to see who they really have in the classroom.
Chas,
If you or Apophis are so confident then what’s his name? You challenge me…..I’m challenging both of you and I’ll do what I say.
…………NOW who is obviously lying boxtop?
Show everyone PROOF that I have “admitted” that I indoctrinate kids with his liberal/socialist views”. That’s just a plain lie little man.
As for your alleged 11:12 am post, if you feel THAT was a threat, file a police report. You won’t because you don’t want to be laughed at by WPD. The invitation still stands little man, put up or STFU.
What’s you name asshole and I will.
I believe the invitation was to meet me…….preferably in public……………….someone prone to violence like you might want to do harm to me.
I’ve have never and would never threaten you physically, ever. I have no desire to get my hands dirty.
But I need more than the name of a misshapen asteroid to turn over to school administration. A misshapen asteroid that threatened but turned out to be nothing, good nic sounds just like you.
If you’re so confident in yourself what’s the name, or where do you teach, then I’ve got something to refer to besides Oedipus…er Apophis.
You’re are a sorry excuse for a teacher and know it.
Apophis,
It’s possible Botox is a really dangerous person. It’s possible of anyone.
Bit you’ll go nuts if you live in that degree of fear.
This guy lived about a block from me:
http://www.dc.state.ks.us/kasper/offenders?RaceName=&GenderName=&SupervisionCountyName=&ConvictionCountyName=&LocationName=&lastname=Bailey&firstname=Darrell&mid
Relatively speaking, he wasn’t a bad neighbor. He never, personally, messed with me. 1991 brought a lot of bad folks to this seriously unlikely place in southeast Wichita.
But he did kick help kick a woman to death.
I lived in the “insane crips” territory for a few years. I actually had neighbors question the contents of my book bag. They were scared (though, apparently, not scared enough to mind their own damn business).
I wasn’t immmune. It was unnerving. But I refused to become a prisoner in my own home. They even asked me: wasn’t I scared to be walking around the neighborhood? Sure, I said; but that my answer. My freedom or my life.
I wasn’t–and ain’t–John Wayne. That’s not even necessary.
I was just an basic autonomous human being.
A smart man said:
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”
Albert Einstein
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.”
Albert Einstein
#
lindainks55
Posted August 23, 2008 at 5:50 pm | Permalink
A smart man said:
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”
Albert Einstein
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.”
Albert Einstein
————————————-
So opposite is:
“smaller, simple and non-violent.”
This would describe a low IQ midget, who attends a Buddhist sanctuary.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.”
Albert Einstein
Indeed, Linda. Einstein is one of my heroes.
More generally, to produce simplicity out of chaos–and not by simply truncating the reality, and producing faux “simplicity”–should be the goal of all thinking people.
And violence, even when necessary, sucks.
#
Rage
Posted August 23, 2008 at 6:00 pm | Permalink
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.”
Albert Einstein
Indeed, Linda. Einstein is one of my heroes.
More generally, to produce simplicity out of chaos–and not by simply truncating the reality, and producing faux “simplicity”–should be the goal of all thinking people.
And violence, even when necessary, sucks.
————————
I would give you a plaque, but that’s someone else’s job.
Here’s a crystal pyramid and some incense for your meditation room.
(chortles)
would give you a plaque, but that’s someone else’s job.
Here’s a crystal pyramid and some incense for your meditation room.
Keep the stupid plaque and the pyramid.
I don’t buy incense, but I’ll take a freebie. :)
Out of all of this thread, only one thing struck me. This statement, over and over again:
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
That’s a conclusion, Apophis, not an argument.
WHY is it “totally inappropriate, under ANY circumstance?” Is there any analysis or rationale behind that conclusion?
I suspect not.
One thing that struck me (again!) was those who gladly advertise what should be “concealed.”
Way upthread XXX said it so well:
“But . . . if the perps suspected you had a gun, and wanted to do you harm, they’d just shoot you first.”
Capn, that plays to the “concealed” part of CCW. Not all CCW-types brag about or advertise that they’re carrying.”
“So opposite is:
“smaller, simple and non-violent.”
This would describe a low IQ midget, who attends a Buddhist sanctuary.”
—-
Seldom do we need to go so far as “opposite” to find solutions.
Once again, Apophis:
Out of all of this thread, only one thing struck me. This statement, over and over again:
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
That’s a conclusion, Apophis, not an argument.
WHY is it “totally inappropriate, under ANY circumstance?” Is there any analysis or rationale behind that conclusion?
I suspect not.
There SHOULD NEVER be any reason to have teachers carry weapons for defense in schools. But the key word is ‘SHOULD’. Fact is, born out by documented historical fact, there ARE reasons as we have repeatedly read and cried about, and no amount of wishing or proselytizing by Apophis can change that fact.
Of course there are risks with firearms in schools, just as there are risks with CCW, but the statistics don’t prove the irrational fears valid. It is amazing to me how people that call themselves ‘informed’, most pointedly the ‘teacher’ I so frequently verbally duel with, base their opinions on feeling and not fact. You would think a person charged with teaching our most valued and loved members of society would rely on documented fact not political or personally biased opinion. But….that’s a DemLib, why would I even ask that silly question?
If several of the school shooting had had an armed teacher or authority present the tragic outcome may have very well been avoided.
You can’t stop crazies with wishes, or opinions, or words usually, but you have a good chance with a competent person and a firearm.
Apophis I think knows his limitations, and yes he shouldn’t, probably couldn’t, be trusted with a firearm, but that limitation doesn’t apply to all.
I put the odds that my kid will ever be threatened in a school shooting FAR higher than the odds that one of the gun crazy posters here would actually try and shoot me.
I think it is even MORE likely that some way, some day, one of the gun crazies on this blog is going to kill an innocent person.
You’re just ‘wishin’ BlueJay, just ‘a-wishin’.
Both good and bad people are gun owners, you need to mix it up with some of the good gun owners, you’d enjoy it.
Sorry, but I can’t say the same for them.
Third time, Apophis:
Out of all of this thread, only one thing struck me. This statement, over and over again:
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
That’s a conclusion, Apophis, not an argument.
WHY is it “totally inappropriate, under ANY circumstance?” Is there any analysis or rationale behind that conclusion?
I suspect not.
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Permalink
lindainks55
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
Because someone may have a gun someone else should have a gun?
Violence begets violence and never begets peace.
———————————————————————
Oh, what does beget peace?
Did I miss the answer?
The gun-banners here are as pathetic as any I’ve ever seen anywhere.
Why is Wichita, Kansas the Liberal Gun-Banner magnet of the midwest?
Very small minority group in Kansas resides here. Is there nowhere else for you Libs to go in Kansas?
GMC70, who cares whether you see my statement as a conclusion instead of an argument. I proposed a “negative situation”: i.e. no guns in the hands of teachers for any reason. It is not incumbent of me to prove that negative. If you disagree with that conclusion, then furnish logical evidance to refute my conclusion. None of the rabid gunnutsia today have provided any rebuttal to adequately refute me so they did the next best thing in the warped reichwing mind.
They make it PERSONAL about me. Typical……….attack the individual when your side “ain’t got nothing”.
I might also add GMC70, I do have a life other than poking a stick at reichwingers. I didn’t respond at your beckon call because I have been busy today with other matters more pressing than you.
Apophis?
You need to get a throw away email.
You have read of the impromptu meetup the other evening?
A meetup is being organized and I know posters who would like to meet you.
Apophis posts;
“I didn’t respond at your beckon call because I have been busy today with other matters more pressing than you.”
Yeah, right….get your hands on the keyboard Apophis and out of your lap.
I thought not, Apophis. It’s a knee-jerk reaction, not thought. I need not justify a position to one who has no thought.
Actually they’ve “refuted” you reasonably well, though you refuse to acknowledge same, simply responding with a conclusion rather than reason.
Typical.
Boxlock
Posted August 23, 2008 at 11:15 pm | Permalink
Yeah, right….get your hands on the keyboard Apophis and out of your lap.
============================================
GMC, would THIS example be one of the “reasonable refutations” of what Apophis has posted?? ROFL!! ooof dah!!
JM Walker,
No, you didn’t explain to me everything I need to understand. You have made the claim repeatedly that those who carry concealed are paranoid in some way. I have asked you over and over again to explain why. You then said that you don’t have to explain to me why you believe what you believe and then you said that you explained to me everything I need to understand.
So….
Once again, WHY do you say that those who carry concealed or support teachers being allowed to do so in school are paranoid?
I understand your point about parents. I agree. They should be more involved. However, when the crazy guy in the school is shooting people, sitting around wondering about where his parents are is not going to save you.
Why would you be opposd to allowing teachers to carry concealed in school?
My stance on abortion has nothing to do with self defense. Perhaps if you understood why I am opposed to abortion you would grasp the concept.
I believe in the sanctity of life. In order to protect life you sometimes have to take a life. For example: To stop a crazy killer from killing more people, I would have to shoot that killer and probably kill him.
There is no contradiction in my being both Pro-Life and Pro-self defense. In both I am for protecting the innocent from those that would do them harm.
Good night; Good luck; God bless —-
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!!
So mote it be!!
Apophis,
In any real argument or debate it is incumbant upon you to provide proof for your assertion.
Simply saying that it is never ok for teachers to carry concealed is not an argument. As GMC70 tried to point out, it is merely an assertion. One made with no supporting facts or evidence or argument.
So… once again, WHY is it “totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school?”
No Apophis, but this is – I wouldn’t have phrased it quite this way, nor would I have put in the personal shots, but the position is essentially a valid one:
There SHOULD NEVER be any reason to have teachers carry weapons for defense in schools. But the key word is ‘SHOULD’. Fact is, born out by documented historical fact, there ARE reasons as we have repeatedly read and cried about, and no amount of wishing or proselytizing by Apophis can change that fact.
Of course there are risks with firearms in schools, just as there are risks with CCW, but the statistics don’t prove the irrational fears valid. . . .
If several of the school shooting had had an armed teacher or authority present the tragic outcome may have very well been avoided.
—
You may well disagree with that; if so, why? You’ve stated your position, but you provided no reason or rationale for same. Your opponents have provided a rationale for an opposing position. So far, the opponents that you have so much disdain for are kicking your ass.
Ball’s in your court.
“One made with no supporting facts or evidence or argument.”
Yep… just like that Young Earth superstition… LOL :roll:
Sorry, Apophis, it was Chas who came to your aid. I’ll direct my response to you, nonetheless.
If you have to rely on Chas for rationale, you are indeed in deep trouble. Chas couldn’t think his way out of the proverbial wet paper bag.
Sorry, Chas, call ‘em as I see ‘em. Go ahead and STFU now. That would be, of course, Shudder Tremors Forever Under. Quaking in your boots, as it were. Californ-i-a. Swimming pools. Movie Stars.
“There is no contradiction in my being both Pro-Life and Pro-self defense. In both I am for protecting the innocent from those that would do them harm.”
Get the boy a cape! Here he comes to save the day!
Of course, you will be billed.
Think I’ll call it a night. Unlike Chas, however, I really mean it.
Enjoy, all. If you can provide a rationale for your position, Apophis, go for it. I’m all ears (metaphorically, of course).
I posted earlier that any time a gun is added to any situation the situation deteriorates.
No one has refuted that.
GMC70
Posted August 23, 2008 at 9:47 pm | Permalink
Third time, Apophis:
Out of all of this thread, only one thing struck me. This statement, over and over again:
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
That’s a conclusion, Apophis, not an argument.
WHY is it “totally inappropriate, under ANY circumstance?” Is there any analysis or rationale behind that conclusion?
—
Well, this should be self evident imo.
Look at it this way.
First generation, no problem. In a small Kansas town, the male teacher one day shows up packin’. However, no female teachers pack iron…and the student ponders.
Why is that?!?
Male teacher: we pack to protect you from harm.
Female teacher: we don’t pack because we believe packing to be dishonest, in that it’s a self-fullfilling prophecy: something bad will happen if we carry sidearms, and the odds are overwhelming nothing at all bad will happen if sidearms are never present (they’re willing to live by their wiles, god love ‘em ).
Almost without exception the females are correct in their predictions, and the packin’ males are left out where Regular “exists,” or (figuratively) in an emotional place where they’re abandoned female wise. In a school environment, the females can chortle about how paranoid the males are (the only thing in the packin’ males’ advantage is the emotional whallop presented by the very violent exception to the rule….the rarity of which only serves the female pov…)
Given enough time, this outcome can only favor Democrats, — or those who are rational — no?
Hence packin in a skool environment is self-limiting at best, and consequently a circumstance exists where American teachers’ packin’ is inappropriate (at best).
In fact, it’s been shown here in this post that such packin’ may actually be self-limiting, given enough female teachers in enough rural Kansan environments.
Capische? :D
And why stop with teachers?
Custodians should be armed. (Remember how bright school custodians are?)
And students, too.
Nothing would provide more security than every hormone-pumping wimp and bully strapping on a Glock before algebra class, now would it?
And wouldn’t 3rd Graders have a lot fewer dust-ups at recess if they could add a Smith & Wesson .38 to their dodge-ball strategy?
The only logical answer is to socialize guns in school. Maybe set it up with the school lunch/reduced-price breakfast program; if you can’t afford a pistol, the school will provide one for you for a nickel, same as a half-pint of milk.
(Damn. I should work for the NRA.)
MonkeyHawk,
Try reading the thread. You will see where I clearly refuted your statement.
Chas,
When you dismiss the very foundation for what most Christians rely on for “proof”, while you claim to be a Chrsitian, it is rather hard to hold any kind of a discussion with you.
Keep in mind that your faith is no less of a superstition than what you attempt to mock me for believing.
Of course you left wing religion people will never see the irony in that.
Aw, c’mon`, boy –
There’s about 200 posts on this thread.
Cut and post your clear refutation and we’ll discuss it. I don’t wanna go looking for it. It’s late and we won’t bother many others.
Give me your alleged refutation.
What a wonderful thing. Now if only we could start getting all the schools to not only allow teachers to carry concealed, but anyone who has a license to carry concealed inside school as well.
We need to get a few facts straight here:
The teachers are not forced to be armed. Probably only a few will be armed. The teachers who wish to be armed still have to have a concealed carry license to do so.
All the arguments about accidents, guns being taken away, and other “bad” things happening have been made in every state every time a concealed carry law was about to be passed.
Guess what? Here we are about 2 years into Kansas having concealed carry and we don’t see all these horrible things happening that you anti-gun people have argued would. You would be hard pressed to find even one example of the things you anti-gun people were saying would happen.
I keep hearing over and over again that guns shouldn’t be in schools. Why? You keep saying it, but you have yet to explain why or give a valid argument for why.
There is nothing magical about a school which makes it immune to gun violence. Actually, if you want to see where most of these public shootings are taking place, look at the schools. Apparently someone forgot to tell all these crazy killers that bringing a gun to school is just so inappropriate. LOL
Maybe all these crazy people shooting up schools just missed the sign that said no guns or gun free zone?
Sorry to have to tell you liberal anti-gun people this, but, signs and good feelings do not stop crazy people from bringing a gun to school and shooting as many people as they can or want to. Another person with a gun can and will be able to though.
It has also been said that adding a gun to any situation will never help. That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. If you have any will to live or defend yourself or your family from someone doing them harm, how on Earth can you say that having a gun will not help?
A gun is one of the most effective ways of being able to protect yourself, your family, or anyone else from someone who wants to do them harm.
Only an idiot can sit here and say that a gun will never help. You obviously have no clue about self defense to make such absurd statements.
So, is anyone here who is against concealed carry in schools able to present an actual argument for why? Simply saying so doesn’t make it true. Lets see some logic and reasoning here.
Geez, “Nathaniel” –
Just provide the scriptural citation that makes the boy prophet “Nathaniel” the ultimate judge of just who is or isn’t a “christian.”
Then I’ll listen to your views on this hoary worn-out meme of yours.
MonkeyHawk,
I didn’t say one thing about that tonight. Chas started this crap with his mocking my belief in a Young Earth. Once again it is either he or CapnAmerica starting this crap and then you jump in as if I am the one starting it.
Uh Yeah Nathan?
You brandished that you would bring a gun to a meet up.
And doing so, destroyed that meetup.
And yesterday you whined because liberals had fun absent you and your gun.
Here we go again…
I have brought a gun to every meetup I have been to.
Both XXX and I even looked at guns at one of the meetups that he had brought.
So what? The only ones making a big deal out of it are you anti-gun liberals. Most of us normal people don’t even give it a second thought that we have guns, use guns, or take them places.
WS Clark was the one who droned on and on about my stupid comment and thus the meetup went downhill. Then again, has WS Clark ever gone to a meet up ever? Nope. Even you yourself have taunted him on that.
My comment was a joke. I have said countless times that I am sorry and that in hindsght it was dumb.
What more do you want from me BlueJay? You have truly made holding a grudge an artform for yourself.
“Nathaniel” gives his “refutation” –
“…Simply saying so doesn’t make it true.”
Yeah.
What you said.
I simply can’t fathom the depth of your fear of “what-ifs.”
If you really believe you’re not safe without a handgun strapped to your hip, you’re living a much more exciting and dangerous life than most people.
There must be a whole lot of bad guys who are out to get ya, boy. Why that might be is anybody’s guess.
I’ve generally lived my life so that there are not a whole lot of people who might want to murder me. Maybe you haven’t. Or maybe you’re one of those who entertains the fantasy of murdering me.I dunno.
But even if I were concerned that you have homicidal intentions toward me, I doubt that I’d have the cunning and skill that you, an ex-Marine, would bring to a confrontation, even if I strapped on a Glock every time I stepped out on the porch to check the mailbox. If you really want to get me, you’ll get me.
But hey. You may have a legitimate, non-paranoid basis for your fear of appearing in public without a firearm on your person.
I go to a taco place, eat a taco, and leave. You go to a taco place and scope out the place in search of potential assassins. Nothing irrational about that, in your opinion. Sorry, boy, but I don’t wanna live like that.
Unless you frequent a lot of Dens of Iniquity, Sin, and Debauchery, every time you carry your weapon you are likely to be the most dangerous person in the room.
You imagine, seem to fantasize on the potential opportunity to rise up like Clint Eastwood and distribute justice in the form of improvisational hot lead.
I’d rather eat my taco in emotional peace.
Apparently you weren’t saved from fear if you aren’t packing heat, boy.
JR…..I do have an e-mail for issues here: Apophis47@yahoo.com.
I knew some of you more………….sane bloggers were meeting up for the Frank book reading last Thursday. I would have attended but, I had an evening school obligation.
Still for those reichwingers here, you don’t get it.
Not one person posted a real and factual reason to refute my statement. All that was posted was opinions and “what-ifs?”. I never asserted something was needed, I proposed that guns were NOT needed in the schools. That is a non-existant state. That requires no support since it’s a null set. Any opinion to the contrary requires the supportive evidence.
If you still don’t get it, here is an easier example:
Prove the existence of “God”. If one is to claim there is nothing in the physical world that proves this concepts existence, the argument is done. If you claim there IS a “God” then the burden of proof is yours to provide the real and tangible evidence.
“…we don’t pack because we believe packing to be dishonest, in that it’s a self-fullfilling prophecy: something bad will happen if we carry sidearms, and the odds are overwhelming nothing at all bad will happen if sidearms are never present (they’re willing to live by their wiles, god love ‘em ).”
And more fires will result if we have fire extinguishers around, and folks will have heart attacks if we have auto-defibrillators at sporting events, and injuries will result if we have an ambulance at sporting events or other large gatherings. Surely a tornado will result if we have shelters……and on and on and on.
“Prove the existence of “God”. If one is to claim there is nothing in the physical world that proves this concepts existence, the argument is done.”
To demand that God, a spiritual being, be proved using physical evidence is completely asinine.
And absolutely what one would expect to come from the faux teacher.
……..well boxtop, you fell right into this one:
You posted that “God” is a being, implying a physical form (darned science). Shouldn’t then be able to prove the existence of a physical form?
I’ll wait for your proof. I’ll be here a loooooooong time becaue you will never be able to provide any.
The offer still stands little man, put up or STFU.
Talk about a little man, mentally at least….that’s you nitwit, and probably in many other ways as well.
There are physical AND spiritual beings and physical evidence has no meaning when referring to the spiritual.
You are so dimensionally shallow.
Once, I labeled Max as not being a troll.
He may be sincere, but I was wrong.
He is a spamming troll.
“I disagree with you Nathan. Teachers should all be forced to be armed.
“If they are not competent enough to operate a gun, they are not competent enough to teach my kids.”
Classic troll nonsense.
in that it’s a self-fullfilling prophecy: something bad will happen if we carry sidearms, and the odds are overwhelming nothing at all bad will happen if sidearms are never present (they’re willing to live by their wiles, god love ‘em ).
But this “fact” is not a fact at all. In fact, bad things HAVE happened without sidearms. Moreover, despite all the whining from the usual suspects, legal CCW has NEVER led to the “rivers of blood” regularly predicted by opponents.
In other words, Pedant, your fact is based upon a false premise. Moreover, any reason why you draw the gender distinction (aside from your own prejudices)?
“You posted that “God” is a being, implying a physical form”
Using the term “being” in spiritual terms in no way implies a physical form, therefore demanding physical proof. Spiritual beings are NOT CORPOREAL, they have no physical form, but in no way minimizes their existence.
Apophis –
YOur position is NOT a “null set.” It is an statement of proposed policy – it proposes a policy of complete exclusion of firearms from schools by education professions. That’s a substantive, and far-reaching, policy.
However, you provide NO rationale for such a policy at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. You then proceed to hide behind the “null set/prove a negative” bullsh**. Your policy is an affirmative one; it’s not a “no policy.” Your affirmative policy, surely must have some rationale behind it. Please tell me you’ve actually thought</em about this at all, rather than simply reacted?
The fact of the matter is your policy is apparantly based upon not any rationale or reason, but feelings. Moreover, you assert YOUR personal beliefs MUST be the only rational ones and no one can have an opposing point of view – such that that opposing points of view are per se irrational.
That, in itself, is of course irrational.
Ya see, Apophis, I’ve spend 12 years in those same classrooms. I was that “education professional” for quite some time. I may in fact ultimately agree with you, but you’ve provided no reason for me to do so.
So far, Apophis, your opponents are still cleaning your clock.
BTW, Apophis, your use of STFU requires the words behind the acronym. Otherwise, we may substitute Chas’ “words” he asserts. And that will make you look like an idiot.
Children (usually those in schools) aren’t mature and don’t make mature decisions. When a child pulls the gun, and the armed adult teacher also pulls the gun s/he must (as we’ve been told) aim to kill. We’ve been told here on this blog when the person who carries concealed pulls their gun they must have already decided to kill. In this case already decided to kill a child and ensure this child won’t have the chance to make a mature decision.
I do understand that adults may enter schools with guns and the “shooter” isn’t necessarily going to be a child. I also understand shootings happen at colleges where everyone is of adult age. But this school in Texas isn’t a college and most of the people there are children.
I hope this decision is never tested.
We do read about shooters at schools, malls, and each time everyone wonders if someone carrying concealed had been there would the outcome have been different. Without a time machine there will never be proof of a differing outcome, IF…
I hope this decision is never tested.
As do all of us. But bad things happen. And they happen, sometimes, where we least expect them. “Hoping” doesn’t count for squat.
Certainly, we should do everything we can to ensure that that gun is never brought into a school with the intent to do harm. We must deal with the conditions which could lead to a student or adult who has malice and a weapon, and try to prevent it.
But we cannot ensure that it will never happen. We must be prepared for that eventuality.
Linda,
You never answered my earlier post to you. Do you believe in self defense at all?
Your understanding of what has been said is a bit off as well. A gun is a deadly force weapon. If a situation is presented where you feel that you must use a gun to defend yourself, it is one where you are shooting to stop the threat. Stopping the threat is deadly force.
If you are using deadly force it is force which could most likely kill someone if not seriously hurt them.
The mere fact that a gun is pulled out is not enough that most people would just start shooting. If there was more threatening actions or the child was obviously going to shoot someone then, yes, that child will be shot.
So what?
What would you have us do then, sit there and wait for the child to shoot as many people as the child could until he ran out of ammo, killed himself, or the SWAT team arrived to kill him?
The end result of most of these shootings is one of those three and you sit here wondring about the shooter???
Why is it that people like you are so opposed to other people having the ability to defend themselves?
Apophis,
Your statement is not an empty set. It is an assertion that demands proof.
Lets break it down:
“It is totally inappropriate,”
You are claiming an absolute condition of having guns in a school to be “totally inappropriate”
You provided no argument or evidence for why it is either “totally” or “inappropriate”
“under any circumstance,”
Again, you claim an absolute. That under no circumstance is it “appropriate”
“for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.”
And you narrow your claim to education professionals being allowed to carry concealed in a school.
So, once again, your statement is not a “null set”
It is a statement affirming something. An affirmation that you refuse to provide any evidence or reasoning for.
So, once again, why is it “totally inappropriate?”
Apophis,
If you are claimin that there is no God, you still have to prove that. It is an affirmation of the negative. You still have to prove that it is an empty set.
You can no more prove that there is no God than I can prove there is one.
You’ve convinced me, “Nathaniel” –
I think we should assign all school children guns.
Thanks for showing me the light, boy.
MonkeyHawk,
That was never my argument. The light you see is not any of my doing.
MonkeyHawk,
The reason why you and many others don’t understand or “get” why someone would carry concealed is because you keep mischaracterizing our reasons for doing so. No matter how many times we try to explain it to you, you and others keep characterizing us as paranoid and afraid.
I could just as easily ask you the same thing.
Why are you so afraid and paranoid about people who carry concealed?
Why are you so afraid and paranoid about allowing teachers to carry concealed in school?
#
HLP
Posted August 20, 2008 at 9:01 pm | Permalink
“However[,] when a man as hateful as HLP declares that he went to the trouble of getting said permit “in case I need to kill someone”. . .”
There are several people that post on this BLOG that have gone to the trouble to get their CCH permit.
They can contribute a lot to the topics that concern firearms and the State law concerning their concealed carry.
If at some point during the procedure required to get their license, beginning, middle or end, it did not dawn on them the seriousness of their endeavor then I don’t want them around me.
The purpose of a hand gun that you carry for the expressed purpose of self defense is to kill. If you can’t come to grips with that fact your gun is a greater danger to yourself than to any body else.
OMG, “Nathaniel” –
You mean you favor taking away school children’s 2nd Amendment rights?!
You obviously hate America, boy.
MonkeyHawk,
It was your claim that a gun NEVER helps. I have proven otherwise. Any comment?
Linda,
I know the comment. I simply think that you made an oversimplification of the subject.
So, do you believe in self defense?
MonkeyHawk,
I guess since you have moved onto being absurd, you have given up trying to present any kind of rational argument?
Nope, “Nathaniel” –
You’ve convinced me, boy.
The more guns in the classroom the better.
Your “rational argument,” boy, has convinced us all.
Linda,
So when some kid brings a gun to your grandkids school and starts shooting students, just as the SWAT team is about to take that killer down and as the killer is about to kill your grandkid, do you want the SWAT team to stop the killer or wait to see if the killer makes a mature decision to not kill your grandkid?
What is your decision Grandma?
Now, substitute a teacher with a concealed carry permit in the place of the SWAT team.
What is your decision Grandma?
Do we let the killer kill your grandkid or do we stop the killer?
GMC70…..the only reason you think the reichwingers have “cleaned my clock” is because you agree with them I surmise. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be playing your little word games egging on their stupidity.
Tell me …70, how does being a teacher for a dozen years make you an expert? If you were so successful as an educator, why are you not there now?
Lastly, it is still not possible to prove a null set.
No firearms in schools specifically teachers and/or students) for any reason.
Sounds like a big bunch of non-existence to me.
Here’s an idea for the gunutsia who think this is a good idea. Sign up to speak at the BOE meeting in the community access section of the agenda. Lay out your case to those fine elected Board members. I doubt if any of them would think it is a good idea, even WPD Sergeant Jeff Davis would undoubtedly disagree.
MonkeyHawk,
You choose to hide behind the abusrd because you know how lacking your real arguments were.
“Nathaniel” squirms –
“You choose to hide behind the abusrd because you know how lacking your real arguments were.”
The only “abusrdity” I’ve embraced is your argument. More guns in the classroom! The more the merrier!
It’s the boy prophet “Nathaniel” speaking and I bow to your wisdom and God-ordained superiority.
Apophis,
The problem is not with proving or disproving a null set.
The problem is that you are very incorrectly trying to claim that your assertion is a null set.
I am still sitting here wondering how on Earth you can claim to be an educational professional and be incorrectly using the null set attribution to your argument like this.
It is rather absurd.
MonkeyHawk,
Continue being absurd. It only shows that you can’t make a real argument.
Apophis,
Try donig this. You still have to be able to prove that something is a null set. Simply saying it is, doesn’t make it so.
So, how is your statement a null set?
Watching you try to explain this should be fun or you could just admit that it isn’t a null set.
Apophis –
Shall I list the absurdies and falsities in your last post? Let’s see:
how does being a teacher for a dozen years make you an expert?
I never claimed to be an expert; you chose to make such a characterization. While I thank you for your endorsement, I’ll decline same. I only ask you to support your assertion of proposed policy with rationale.
I recognize how difficult it is for you to justify your absolutist position. I also know that you are recognizing how difficult it is to justify as well.
No firearms in schools specifically teachers and/or students) for any reason.
You characterize this as a “null set;” of course, it is no such thing. Wiki defines it as “In mathematics, a null set is a set that is negligible in some sense. For different applications, the meaning of “negligible” varies. In measure theory, any set of measure 0 is called a null set (or simply a measure-zero set). More generally, whenever an ideal is taken as understood, then a null set is any element of that ideal.”
This Discussion, however, is not mathematics, theoretical or otherwise. Your position is a policy position. It asserts a particular policy. Particular policies ought to be based on some rationale or reason. Surely you can express said rationale. Or perhaps not? Perhaps this little game simply disguises that YOU are in fact the “null set,” devoid of any logical reasoning.
Lay out your case to those fine elected Board members. I doubt if any of them would think it is a good idea, even WPD Sergeant Jeff Davis would undoubtedly disagree.
I don’t doubt that the BOE may well agree. That, of course, is not the point. WHY would they agree? That is the question you have been declining to answer.
Is their disagreement rational? As a teacher, you know that BOEs often do things entirely irrational. It may be, for example, that their decision is simply “ass-covering,” as in suit avoidance, rather than a decision based upon reason. Further, neither you nor I can guess what the position of Sergeant Davis is, nor does it matter. Without understanding the rationale of his position, it is impossible to evaluate it. You assert a claim to authority which is in fact no authority at all.
Despite repeated questions, you continue to avoid a simple question. I can only conclude you have no answer.
When your students ask you a “why” question, is your response always “because I said so?” Because that has been exactly your response here. If so, indeed you have no business in a classroom.
GMC, Apophis can’t answer that question. He can’t support his own position. It’s not up to anyone else to refute a position he can’t even support.
Yet he goes on and on about how he is being personally attacked here! When?
Yeah, like I’m personally attacked here. Yeah, that’s it. Watch how the Libs will resort to personal attacks on me.
Oh good grief, sarcasm, I’ve had enough for one day.
Further, there is this little tidbit:
GMC70…..the only reason you think the reichwingers have “cleaned my clock” is because you agree with them I surmise.
First, your use of the term “reichwingers” displays both your arrogance and ignorance. Second, I have not indicated my position, nor does it matter. If your position is based upon reasoning and has a solid rationale, you should be able to express same.
The “reichwingers” you so disdain have done so. You can’t. And I should accept your position over the one taken by the Texas Board at issue here why, exactly?
Apophis,
Take it from someone who’s been sitting on the sidelines just reading, as I am having a wonderful Sunday afternoon and don’t want it ruined by interacting with you. None the less I must interject.
YOU ARE GETTING YOUR ASS KICKED REAL BAD!!! Even worse than usual.
Why don’t you take your own advice you frequently hand to others and STFU before you make yourself look even more foolish.
Ah. As I review my 5:10, in the paragraph beginning “I don’t doubt the BOE may well agree,” the “agree” should read “disagree.” Likewise in the next sentence.
I’m sure you surmised same. Continue.
Good luck, Apophis. You’ll need it.
Box –
You MUST provide the real terms for your use of the acronym STFU. Otherwise, we will have to substitute Chas’ definition. That would make you look like an idiot.
It should not be assumed it means what I don’t doubt you believe it means. Chas has said so.
I’d like to know exactly, step by step, what Apophis would do if he was teaching a class in school, and a madman ran in pulled out a rifle and started shooting the kids.
(Fire shot 1, 2, 3)
1. Dial 911.
(Fire shot 4, 5, 6)
2. Panic.
(3 kids down and bleeding, Fire shot 7, 8, 9)
3. Crawl under the desk.
(5 kids down and bleeding, Fire shot 10, 11, 12)
4. Call the Principal.
(7 kids down and bleeding, Fire shot 13, 14, 15)
5. Cry.
(8 kids down and bleeding, Reload magazine, fire shots 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
6. Tell the kids to get down and run and don’t fight back!
(12 kids down and bleeding, fire shots 21, 22, 23)
7. Call security.
(Whole class is bloody, too many bodies to count, fire shots 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)
8. Pray
(Shooter kills himself)
9. Figure out what to tell the parents.
Don’t think that scenario at 5:34 doesn’t happen.
It already has, several times.
GMC70,
Here, you may pick whichever you prefer.
I think Apophis knows what was intended as he is the one that uses it so frequently. I wanted him to apply his definition to the situation.
STFU Acronym Definition:
STFU Shut the Freak Up (polite form)
STFU Samurai Training Finished Unsuccessfully
STFU Scrawny Two-Faced Underling
STFU Show Them Fury Unleashed
STFU Sir, That’s Freakin Ugly (polite form)
STFU Southern Tenant Farmers’ Union
STFU Star Trek Federation University
If you have a different definition please inform me. I am unfamiliar with Chas’s when you say;
“You MUST provide the real terms for your use of the acronym STFU. Otherwise, we will have to substitute Chas’ definition. ”
Thanks for the tip I hope follows.
10. Apophis yells STFU!
11. Apophis craps pants.
12. Apophis wonders where is beloved NEA Union is when he needs them.
13. Apophis wonders where the USD 259 BOE is when he needs them.
14. Apophis wonders if any of them will show up at his funeral.
15. Apophis wonders if just maybe he should have committed himself to more personal responsibility for self-defense.
Oh, here I go…now I’m feeling sorry for Apophis, which I know is a stupid reaction on my part and I’ll pay for it I’m sure.
Sorry Apophis for piling on.
Have a nice Sunday evening before the school week, and remember this is big Labor Day Weekend coming up. That should cheer you up, at least it does most normal teachers.
Box:
In case you missed it, sometime back Chas, in one of his all-caps spew parties, used the STFU form, meaning (given the context at the time) exactly what you would think.
When called on that language from a “minister,” Chas informed us that STFU, as ‘he’ used it, in fact stood for “Stand The Floor Up,” claiming it came from some Pennsylvania Dutch derivation. He claimed so with a straight face – or I assume a straight face, given I can’t see his face.
Riiiiiight.
He was met with the expected scoffs, even from his erstwhile allies. It’s kinda been a running joke ever since.
So -STFU has aquired a special standing. True participation requires not only the meaning intended, but the cultural derivation. You are invited to play along. Or not, as you like.
Max, given the policy position Apophis has proposed, he has no choice but to cower while his charges are executed should scenario you outline, or something similar, occur. He has given himself no options.
Whether he craps his pants or not is irrelevent. He, and his charges, are likely dead. And there’s not a damn thing he could have done about it.
I am simply trying to get him to elucidate why he would choose such helplessness as the preferable policy position. I suspect that what it come down to is that he believes that his position is morally superior, and he revels in that moral superiority. I’m sure that moral superiority will be of great comfort to his loved ones and his students’ parents.
Oh I see GMC you’ve been trying to get some rationale from Apophis too.
He has none.
Morally Superior view? How dare Libs make such moral decisions and impose them on everyone!
Let’s see him try to make an argument against the right to personal self defense. THEN, I’d like to see what he does if someone on the street punched him in the nose! Would he lay down and cry and beg for his life, or would he defend himself? Maybe he’d TALK his way out of it. Or offer up a little cash to buy his life. Appeasement, that always works.
GMC70 and Max,
Simply….some very excellent points you both bring up for all to ponder!
Ones some of us have considered already, but well stated here for others that may not have, or dismissed as counter to their ideals.
I hope all reading will give these comments consideration, and what they might mean for themselves and their families and loved ones.
AMC70 (rambler), boxtop, madmax……………..all idiots.
They would all think they are “winning” an argument as they are led to to the gallows and the noose put around their necks with the knot under the left ear……………………..
There has not been one shred of evidence to prove that teachers “packing heat” is needed anywhere, anytime.
Shill all you want; I am done with this.
So many heroes in waiting.
SO many who must get up every morning hoping THIS will be the day they get to shoot someone.
Here’s the deal. I don’t live my life afraid. I don’t teach my kid to either.
I do not want, need, or desire some kook with a gun rushing to mine or my son’s defense. Especially since the balance of such folk don’t give a damn about me OR my son unless it is in the hope they get to kill another human being to do us a favor.
#
BlueJay
Posted August 24, 2008 at 10:16 pm | Permalink
So many heroes in waiting.
SO many who must get up every morning hoping THIS will be the day they get to shoot someone.
Here’s the deal. I don’t live my life afraid. I don’t teach my kid to either.
I do not want, need, or desire some kook with a gun rushing to mine or my son’s defense. Especially since the balance of such folk don’t give a damn about me OR my son unless it is in the hope they get to kill another human being to do us a favor.
________________________________________________
What an incredibly sick, sorry human being you are, jr. Really.
You’ve allowed your sick, sorry perception to become your reality. And now you are allowing it to infect your son.
Seek help.
Just what is it that is “sick” about not being paranoid and not having delusions of grandeur?
“HLP” –
Not many are likely to take your advice on parenthood, what with you calling your “boy” by the same pet name you use with your dogs.
Pavlov’s Marine.
We all aspire to raising one of those.
“I don’t live my life afraid. I don’t teach my kid to either.”
MY words.
“You’ve allowed your sick, sorry perception to become your reality. And now you are allowing it to infect your son.
Seek help.”
Hank’s words.
Who at least looks sick?
Well, Joe, you’re a sorry excuse for a human being too.
The problems that this society has with school shootings deserves serious discussion. Impossible with nitwits like you and jr that project their sick inadequacies into any discussion.
#
BlueJay
Posted August 24, 2008 at 10:49 pm | Permalink
Just what is it that is “sick” about not being paranoid and not having delusions of grandeur?
_________________________________________________
Your sickness is demonstrated by the false premise of this very post. There is nothing that I have ever posted that would indicate paranoia or delusions of grandeur. That sickness comes from your twisted little mind.
So tell me, jr, how normal is it for a parent to teach his son to hate and then proudly proclaim for all to read on a public BLOG that he wants to kick me in the nuts?
In the past you have threatened to ‘destroy’ me. You’ve said that if wishes were bullets I’d already be dead.
You cannot find one time where I or my son have ever threatened any one with violence. Yet you continue to project your sick perceptions and cowardly implications on us.
You are getting worse, jr.
Seek help.
“There is nothing that I have ever posted that would indicate paranoia ”
Really? My take is otherwise.
“That sickness comes from your twisted little mind.”
WHAT sickness? I don’t go about afraid all the time? I don’t enter a restaurant or store and immediately start looking for exits and sizing up people in the place as YOU have posted?
“So tell me, jr, how normal is it for a parent to teach his son to hate and then proudly proclaim for all to read on a public BLOG that he wants to kick me in the nuts?”
I teach my son to avoid people who would hurt or exploit him. My take is that is people like you. At least MY version of self defense and teaching my son the same does not rise to killing anyone.
“In the past you have threatened to ‘destroy’ me.
Yeah that IS a little dated. I found out that, at least to MY perception, you are a kept man who brags about wealth that is not really earned by you. Maybe this does not destroy you.
But it sure makes where you are coming from apparent in your posts knowing it.
“You’ve said that if wishes were bullets I’d already be dead.”
Yup. But that is just rhetoric. Wishes are not bullets.
“You cannot find one time where I or my son have ever threatened any one with violence. Yet you continue to project your sick perceptions and cowardly implications on us.”
Well.
YOU did say that you carry a gun in case you have to kill someone.
And Nathan DID threaten to bring a gun to a meetup to “make liberals wet their pants.”
I don’t much bother about that. I’ve never lied on you as you and your son have on me and MY family. But see? The thing here is that in proving your lies I’d only give them further air with a bonedig.
Let’s get back to the point. If you want to be a hero? Do it some other way than telling me you are ready willing and able to kill another human being to defend me or my kid.
Since, unlike you, I don’t worry much about that. I’m sick according to you since I don’t go about scared for my life and teaching my kid the same.
If what YOU are is what money does to people?
I’m GLAD I am poor.
“So tell me, jr, how normal is it for a parent to teach his son to hate and then proudly proclaim for all to read on a public BLOG that he wants to kick me in the nuts?”
I teach my son to avoid people who would hurt or exploit him. My take is that is people like you. At least MY version of self defense and teaching my son the same does not rise to killing anyone.
____________________________________________
Didn’t answer the question. Are you a lier or did you not teach your son to hate me and brag about him saying he wanted to ‘kick me in the nuts’?
_____________________________________________
“In the past you have threatened to ‘destroy’ me.
Yeah that IS a little dated. I found out that, at least to MY perception, you are a kept man who brags about wealth that is not really earned by you. Maybe this does not destroy you.
But it sure makes where you are coming from apparent in your posts knowing it.
_____________________________________________
More sickness from your jealous little mind. You have no idea what I’m worth, nor can you ever point out when I’ve bragged about being rich. Just because you tell a lie long enough and often enough that you start to believe it doesn’t make it true.
_____________________________________________
“You’ve said that if wishes were bullets I’d already be dead.”
Yup. But that is just rhetoric. Wishes are not bullets.
_____________________________________________
Just rhetoric but an indication of your sick twisted mind.
_____________________________________________
Well.
YOU did say that you carry a gun in case you have to kill someone.
And Nathan DID threaten to bring a gun to a meetup to “make liberals wet their pants.”
_____________________________________________
Talk about dated. Neither one is a threat of violence. My statement was a simple fact and Nathan’s was a joke.
______________________________________________
I don’t much bother about that. I’ve never lied on you as you and your son have on me and MY family. But see? The thing here is that in proving your lies I’d only give them further air with a bonedig.
_______________________________________________
I’ve never lied about you or your family. Your constant assertions that I have are lies.
________________________________________________
Let’s get back to the point. If you want to be a hero? Do it some other way than telling me you are ready willing and able to kill another human being to defend me or my kid.
_________________________________________________
Get over yourself. I’ve never said or implied that I would kill to protect you or our son.
_________________________________________________
Since, unlike you, I don’t worry much about that. I’m sick according to you since I don’t go about scared for my life and teaching my kid the same.
________________________________________________
I don’t worry about anything. You are sick for your constant lies and assertions that I do.
______________________________________________
If what YOU are is what money does to people?
I’m GLAD I am poor.
______________________________________________
Money has very little to do with what I am. Only in you sick little mind.
You are poor because you think poor. Poverty in this country is a state of mind.
Seek help.
Apophis –
I’ve not been insulting. I’ve not called you any names. I’ve asked for a simple thing. Reason or rationale for your position.
You’re responded with everything but. You label those who disagree with you dismissively, but still provide no rationale. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. You’ve provided no rationale whatsoever.
Those you hold in such disdain have done so.
If it comes down to which position is supported by logic and rationale, you’ve been dissected, examined, and found wanting.
Game, set, match. You lose.
You lose so badly that JR must resort to lies, distortions, mischaracterizations, and personal attacks to attempt to bail your hiney out. Of course, JR needs little excuse to resort to those things; they are his raison d’être.
Is your position that wanting for reason? Apparantly so.
Congratulations.
Apophis, I’ve often thought that the poster here who’s after you all the time was badly out of line (Regular? I don’t remember). Perhaps in that I was wrong.
I started a post point by point like Hank.
Then I thought. Why bother?
Frequent posters and readers here KNOW who and what he is. I really do not care how I am thought of by people I do not like OR respect. That would include the late arrival GMC.
Who MUST be up early for inflation.
Guns? Who needs them?
When you can use words to make your enemies into idiots.
Apophis,
This very thread is proof that there is a need for teachers to carry concealed. Duh. A school just allowed it’s teachers to do just that, because they had a need for it.
So, care to explain how your argument is a null set or are you giving up on that?
Simple question for MonkeyHawk, BlueJay, Apophis, Linda and anyone else opposed to teachers carrying concealed in school:
Why are you so scared and paranoid of allowing teachers to be able to defend themselves nad others by carrying concealed?
“Nathaniel” –
Pay attention, boy.
You’ve convinced me.
But why are you so scared and paranoid of allowing students to defend themselves “nad” others by carrying concealed?
AMC70…………….you are entitled to your opionion about me, I could really care less what you think. As far as I am concerned, you are now on the level of the prices, mccluer, boxtop, etc.
………some obscure little school has made a stupid decision that some here look to as a SCOTUS decision on teachers “packing heat” in schools. I seriously doubt if it sets a trend. It is highly unlikely that any of you gunnutsia will ever have the opportunity to plead you case for allowing this asinine practice in Wichita.
“Apophis” –
Isn’t it ironic that the CONs have nothing but utter contempt for public school teachers, but love their gun-nut ideology so much they advocate arming all you “incompetent, socialist, mind-control merchants?”
How strange it must be to operate with CONservative CONtradictions buzzing around inside their heads.
Wrong, Monkey man,
I have contempt for cowards that start a tread each day with ad hominem attacks while hiding behind a nic.
Their ignorance and arrogance give the entire profession a bad name.
The conservatives brought reason and fact to this discussion, it’s the libs that have nothing. Your children will continue to die in schools while cowards like Apophis hide and wet themselves.
“The conservatives brought reason and fact to this discussion, it’s the libs that have nothing. Your children will continue to die in schools while cowards like Apophis hide and wet themselves.”
The ironic impairment of this statement alone is simply breathtaking.
It is people like YOU Hank, that I don’t want anywhere near my kid.
B.J.
I wonder, would you defend your kids life with deadly force if need be?
Hank probably would even though he’s your kid.
#
BlueJay
Posted August 25, 2008 at 7:22 am | Permalink
It is people like YOU Hank, that I don’t want anywhere near my kid.
____________________________________________
You’ve taught the little shit to hate! You’re proud of the fact that he wants to kick me in the nuts! Why would anyone want to be anywhere near the little anti social juvenile delinquent?
You keep avoiding, Apophis, any reasoned discussion.
Why is that?
You call this Texas school’s choice a “stupid decision.” Simple question: Why is this school’s choice a “stupid decision?”
Is it so hard to defend your position?
Why must you resort to personal smears and attacks? I’ve not done so. I’ve not bastardized your nic. I’ve not inappropriately smeared you in with any historical horror. I’ve not been rude, mean, obscene, nor personally insulting.
You have chosen to do all those things, and avoid the one thing this thread (and this blog) should be: reasoned discussion.
I’d expect that out of JR and MH; that’s what they live for. Reason is not part of their vocabulary.
You, however, proudly proclaim you position as a professional educator. OK, here’s the teachable moment. Educate me.
Do you always answer your student’s questions with “Because I said so” rather than support your position with any rationale? Because that’s what your response here has been. “Because I said so. Period. End of discussion. And how dare you question me!”
You even attempt to send me to the “corner” with those others you consider “undesirable.” How convenient. How dismissive. And how cowardly. This much be that vaunted left-wing “tolerance” I hear tell of so much, but see practiced so rarely from the left. Do you treat the students you teach who dare to disagree with you similarly?
What am I to conclude? The only conclusion I CAN come to is that you are unable to provide any rationale for your position.
Some here have written about a rationale for a position different from yours. You may well disagree with it. Why do you disagree with it? What logical error has the writer made? Take the position apart, if you can.
Instead, you’ve “lumped” me with those you disdain. Gosh. How painful. And how presumptive of you, to choose my fellow travelers for me. You don’t know a thing about me, aside from I called your bluff. Repeatedly. Effectively. For doing so, relatively politely, I might add, you lump me with those you express the most disdain for.
You, indeed, choose (your choice) to be “lumped” with JR and MH – well, that’s gotta hurt. Rarely do either have a damn thing of substance to say; perhaps that’s entirely appropriate, given your performance on this thread.
you are entitled to your opionion about me, I could really care less what you think.
Now you lie to yourself. You do care; you wouldn’t have responded – repeatedly – if it were not so.
Your real problem is that your position has been found lacking in any substantive rationale. And I don’t doubt that you are a person who generally likes to think of themselves as a rational person, so this hurts like hell. You can’t deal with that. Your basic assumptions have been challenged, and you can’t figure out how to rationally respond.
So instead you choose to attack the messenger, and repeat your mantra – effectively sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating over and over again your tag line.
There’s a revealing mental picture . . . .
So, “GMC70″ –
Share your “reasoned rationale” for not allowing school children to carry guns.
What do you expect, GM,
Apophis started this thread the other day by whining about ad hominem attacks and in the same paragraph calls my boy and me criminals.
He’s even worse than JR and MH. We all know who Jay and Joe are. He cowardly hides behind a nic.
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted August 25, 2008 at 9:46 am | Permalink
So, “GMC70? –
Share your “reasoned rationale” for not allowing school children to carry guns.
________________________________________________
Easy rationale, MH,
Anyone that qualifies for CCH should be allowed to carry concealed in school.
College students that have their CCH permit should be allowed to carry on campus.
If it is considered safe by the state for me to carry in Dillons, why not WSU?
“HLP” –
What is the minimum age for carrying a gun?
16? 18?
That’d include a lot of high school students.
You up for that?
Monkey”boy”
To qualify for a CCH in most states you must be 21. Most states if not all require you to be 21 to buy a handgun. But you probably know that.
Has anyone here suggested letting 16 year olds carry guns in school? Aside from you? Resorting to absurdity as usual I see.
“You’ve taught the little shit to hate! ”
Uh no. YOU actually did that.
I told him what people like you were. Then I let him read your posts here for proof. Hey thanks the help!
“Heckler” informs –
“To qualify for a CCH in most states you must be 21. Most states if not all require you to be 21 to buy a handgun.”
That’s why I asked.
So an 18-year-old voter can carry a gun into war but not into public? Why did you guys allow that to happen? What part of “…shall not be infringed” do you not understand?
Monkey”boy”
One absurdity to another. That’s the “Boy’s” style.
No substance.
In other words, “Heckler” –
Ya got nothin’.
Well, Monkey Man,
I specifically said college students with a CCH permit.
As far as school goes, there should be classes on gun safety in elementary school. Starting in Middle school there should be classes in marksmanship and safety.
Guns are part of our culture. We have a proud history and firearms were a great part of it. Safe handling and firearm proficiency should be taught in schools.
Damn I ALMOST posted about that earlier.
Yup allowing schools to become a free fire zone is the nose under the tent for the gun waving cons.
THEN they will want, just as one of them just posted, guns in the classroom.
I SHOULD have posted that earlier so I could say….
TOLD ya.
“I told him what people like you were. Then I let him read your posts here for proof. Hey thanks the help!”
___________________________________
Like I said, little man,
Without your guiding influence he would not hate me.
You are sick and twisted and it’s infecting your son.
Seek help.
Monkey”boy”
“In other words, “Heckler” –
Ya got nothin’.”
Ya see “boy”, there’s your problem. You think you said something that was worthy of debate, when all you did was blow forth a cloud of spittle. Of course I had no response to it. There was nothing to respond to, except for cleaning the back of the screen on my monitor. It’s really hard to open one of these thinks up without breaking something important.
Apophis
Posted August 24, 2008 at 10:07 pm | Permalink
AMC70 (rambler), boxtop, madmax……………..all idiots.
They would all think they are “winning” an argument as they are led to to the gallows and the noose put around their necks with the knot under the left ear……………………..
There has not been one shred of evidence to prove that teachers “packing heat” is needed anywhere, anytime.
Shill all you want; I am done with this.
——————————————————————————————-
Apophis, still not able to answer the question as to what he would do if a shooter entered his classroom.
JR/Apophis wear Rose Colored Glasses, pretending there is no need to be prepared to defend yourselves, while calling those who are prepared to defend themselves – dangerous and paranoid.
I’m ok with that. Don’t defend yourselves. But you have no right to deny me my right to defend myself.
You can lay down and die without a fight. That’s not my choice.
I thought the Libs were all about Freedom and Choice? Guess not.
BlueJay
Posted August 25, 2008 at 11:04 am | Permalink
Damn I ALMOST posted about that earlier.
Yup allowing schools to become a free fire zone is the nose under the tent for the gun waving cons.
THEN they will want, just as one of them just posted, guns in the classroom.
—————————————————————————
Rose Colored Glasses, again. The schools are already Free Fire Zones, despite the Gun Free Zone signs.
What planet do you live on?
Say JR, you let your kid read these posts?
Did he read the ones asking you why you didn’t pay for health insurance for him?
How did you answer that question?
You love him so much that you don’t buy health care insurance for him?
“Damn I ALMOST posted about that earlier.”
_______________________________________
‘ALMOST’ pretty much describes your life.
You ‘ALMOST’ have a job.
You ‘ALMOST’ have a mommy for your child.
You ‘ALMOST’ have a clue.
Apophis,
Do you ever plan on actually defending the assertions you have made here?
MonkeyHawk,
You have lost the discussion. When all you have to offer is absurdity, you are done.
So lets review the “arguments” from the left here:
1. Apophis, refuses to actually make an argument by claiming that his assertion is a null set. Then he refuses to explain how his assertion is a null set.
2. MonkeyHawk, tried to make an argument and once refuted has moved on to simply being absurd instead of defending his argument .
3. Linda, she dropped in with a few one liners and quotes, but refuses to answer any questions or explain herself.
4. JM Walker, his only thought is that tose who carry concealed are paranoid, but he wont tell us why or explain himself.
5. BlueJay, well, I am not sure if he has even tried to make an argument. Just making everything personal and going after posters here.
6. Rage, I believe, is right there with JM Walker on calling people paranoid and full of fear. Where is he at to actually defend himself or explain himself now?
Did I miss anyone?
This is it. That is the level of debate/argument we are getting from people here.
Heh
Look he’s melting MELTING!
Oh what a world! How dare I expose his beautiful ugliness!
Dang maybe this is why that con ran away from me and my big bad water hose!
Unable to make the case that he should be allowed to prowl the halls of his local school armed to kill, he is reduced to calling me names.
Ow.
Those provisions for conceal carry must be damned lax to allow in someone so skilled at shooting his own foot.
BlueJay,
What in the hell are you talking about?
What a scary place your mind must be.
Here are 1,417,745 reasons to be paranoid.
Here are 1,417,745 reasons to be prepared to defend yourself.
Here are 1,417,745 reasons why Apophis, JR, et al are W R O N G !!!
.
.
.
Bureau of Justice Statistics – Data Online
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs
State Crime in 2006
Violent crime total 1,417,745
Murder 17,034
Forcible rape 92,455
Robbery 447,403
Aggravated assault 860,853
Violent Crime rate 473.5
Murder 5.7
Forcible rape 30.9
Robbery 149.4
Aggravated assault 287.5
Those 1,417,745 people should just lay down and take one for the team, according to Aphophis, JR, et al..
Apophis says:
Let em die.
Let em get raped.
Let em get beat-up.
They have no right to defend themselves.
You have any children Apophis? You tell your kids to just lay down and take one for the team?
And that is 1,417,745 reasons to buy another handgun, shotgun, and rifle.
(Before obama bans them!)
Say Nathan, you see the Springfield XDm yet? It’s in .40.
Rumor is its coming out in 9mm, and I’m lookin for another 9. The XDm in 9 will have:
Match Barrel
19 round normal capacity +1
Around 28 oz unloaded weight
Great for self-defense from the 1,417,745 nuts in America.
Did you know that most violent criminals are not put behind bars?
5. Crime Does Pay: Most Criminals Are Not Caught or Convicted.
Consider these statistics compiled by professor Morgan Reynolds (Texas A&M University) concerning burglary:
500,000 burglaries take place each month
250,000 of these are reported to the police
35,000 arrests are made
30,450 prosecutions take place
24,060 are convicted
6,010 are sent to prison; the rest paroled
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/crime.html
In America, the crime clock continues to click: one murder every 22 minutes, one rape every 5 minutes, one robbery every 49 seconds, and one burglary every 10 seconds.
And the cost of crime continues to mount: $78 billion for the criminal justice system, $64 billion for private protection, $202 billion in loss of life and work, $120 billion in crimes against business, $60 billion in stolen goods and fraud, $40 billion from drug abuse, and $110 billion from drunk driving.
When you add up all the costs, crime costs Americans a stunning $675 billion each year.
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/crime.html
Did you know roughly 1/2 of all crimes go unsolved?
The criminals are left out to roam the streets and commit more crimes!
Percent of Crimes Cleared by Exceptional Means
Murders 60.7%
Rapes 40.9%
Robbery 25.2%
Assault 54.0%
Burglary 12.6%
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/clearances/index.html
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
I’ll keep posting that statement over and over because not one person can post anything to justify the action. Sorry if it annoys you Raptor.
——————————————————————
5 Times!
He’ll keep posting this statement over and over, BECAUSE He Has No Supporting Rationale Behind His Statement!
8:29
8:30
8:39
10:32
12:11
Apophis, hold out your hand.
From Max, A*s, this is the hand of Apophis.
Apophis, this is your A*s.
Apophis, your A*s has now been handed to you.
.
.
(Note: This is just K-12, not including College)
Table 8: Type of Weapon/Force Used in Crime in Schools, by Year
The Year 2004
Weapon Type/Force Used
Personal Weapons… 25,050
None… 4,176
Other… 2,842
Knife/Cutting Instrument… 2,852
Handgun… 497
Blunt Object… 469
Firearm (type not stated)… 146
Other Firearm…154
Explosives… 95
Motor Vehicle… 71
Fire/Incendiary Device… 88
Rifle… 37
Shotgun… 24
Drugs/Narcotics/Sleeping Pills… 6
Poison… 16
Asphyxiation… 2
Unknown… 1,098
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/schoolviolence/2007/schoolviolence.pdf
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Continued on Open 8/26/08.
Apophis will provide his reasons why people should NOT have the right to defend themselves.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
I am pro second amendment. I am not for teachers carrying firearms. That is not their mission. THeir mission is to teach. If they cannot teach in a safe environment, then begin by removing unsafe students to anothe facility, or no facility. If the school is still unsafe, hire armed security, in sufficient numbers to keep everyone safe. If the school district feels it cannot pay for armed security, and do the proper screening, and training, and whatever else it takes, and the school is unsafe, shut the damn thing down.
Also continued on the Open 8/25/08 Topic!
I like a Zero Tolerance policy for weapons in schools.
Unfortunately, those who defend themselves are suspended along with the attacker.
And then both are thrown back into school.
You have a right to a high school diploma now, whether you earn it or not. And it doesn’t matter if you assault others with knives or guns or baseball bats, deal drugs, etc…you have your rights afterall.
Littlejohn,
The thread is not about arming teachers. The thread is about a school that is allowing it’s teachers to carry concealed, if they want to. Teahers who have a state license to carry concealed.
Do you agree with allowing those teachers who have obtained their license to carry concealed to be able to do so in school?
If no, why not?
And as usual, once the liberals have tired of typing their one liners over and over again and never actually offer a real argument or bother to engage in discussion, they leave and don’t come back.
EDITORS,
Read this thread. Seriously. Look at the level of arguments presented by those of us in support of this vs those that are against it.
Take a real long hard look.
I hope you have the integrity to see that you are on the losing side here. That your arguments don’t hold any water. That you have a clear bias against guns for whatever reason.
Anyday any of you want to have a real debate on the subject let me know.
“Nathaniel” –
Why not arm school children?
MonkeyHawk,
Arm the children? They are already armed and bringing their guns to school shooting other children.
Monk,
Hey, if the teacher is going to be packing, it’s only fair that the kids be allowed to defend themselves when little Johnny gets his head blown off for talking back.
““Injecting firearms into a school setting opens the door to tragic but avoidable accidents. And there are no certain safeguards to prevent an angry student — or teacher — from getting hold of a gun that was carried into the classroom.”
Based on the frequency that school shooting are happenign, there were obviously not any good controls to prevent this from happening already.
I do not think allowing teachers that meet the requirements of their state’s concealed carry regulations to carry their concealed weapons in the classroom will introduce any risk that was not already there.
“Jed
Posted August 26, 2008 at 12:35 pm | Permalink
Monk,
Hey, if the teacher is going to be packing, it’s only fair that the kids be allowed to defend themselves when little Johnny gets his head blown off for talking back.”
I think it would be fine for a student that can meet the requirements of their state’s concealed carry laws to be able to carry a concealed weapon in a school.
Of course those less that 21 would not meet those requirements (at least in KS), so there would be no middleschoolers or highschoolers with gun (legally). But on college campuses I think it would be a good idea to allow it.
Good point Brian.
Those who can qualify under the concealed carry law for a carry permit, should be eligible to carry in schools and colleges.
They will be concealed. You won’t know who is carrying legally, and that is the deterrent.
BTW, you don’t know now who is carry illegally.
“BTW, you don’t know now who is carry illegally.”
Very good point.
I really doubt legal carrying will prevent any crimes (if potential criminals thought about consequences they would not be potential criminals), but it could certainly stop ones that do occur from getting out of hand.
Brian,
You make an excellent point. One that seems to escape many here.
We are not talking about “arming” the teachers. We are not talking about making teachers carry guns.
We are simply going to allow those teachers who have a concealed carry license to… carry concealed in school.
If they have their license they are already carrying concealed anyhow. Why not let them do so in school?
Nathaniel,
Exactly!
It is not about arming anyone or forcing anyone to carry a gun. It is about letting someone who would otherwise be able to do so do it in a school.
I do not see any potential added risk from that.
Littlejohn,
Do you agree with allowing those teachers who have obtained their license to carry concealed to be able to do so in school?
If no, why not?
NO. I do not. For the reasons previously specified. It is not their job. It is their job to teach. Security is for well, security to handle. Teachers must be able to have some amount of rapport with students, good ones and bad ones. If they think they are armed, they may trust less than they might if they know they are not. Yes,I know the bad seed may already carry. Yes, I know the teachers have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I also have a right to cross the street in a marked crosswalk. The law says cars must stop. If I force that right, and I get hit by a car, doesn;t help much, now does it?
I do not support teachers arming themselves.I support teachers teaching. SOmething already sseeminly difficult, for lots of reasons. No need to add another one.
Does that answer your quesiton?
College campuses, full of adults, there of their own free will (mostly) may or may not be a different story. I would have to consider that one. THe thread topic, however, is not about a college.
“Nathaniel” declares –
“Arm the children? They are already armed and bringing their guns to school shooting other children.”
So those other children should have no way to defend themselves? By limiting guns to teachers your brand of “protection” is limited to the classroom of gun-toting teachers.
It’s the same argument as all your other Concealed Carry talking points.
The more guns, the better!
So tell us: Why not let all school children carry guns in school?
“boy”
more idiocy.
Littlejohn,
So, do you think that teachers shouldn’t be allowed to carry concealed at all then?
Not even off school property?
Your entire argument is about the teacher. It would logically extend to a teacher never being allowed to carry concealed.
If a teacher wants to carry concealed, does so off school property, what is that big of a difference in merely allowing that teacher to continue to carry in school?
Students are not going to know if their teacher is carrying concealed or not. That is the point. It is called “concealed” carry for a reason.
You are speculating that the mere knowledge of a teacher possibly carrying concealed is enough to damage the learning environment?
Based on what?
So it’s not part of the teacher’s job they shouldn’t carry concealed in school.
Pay them then. I know 2 teachers from my gun club that have their concealed carry permit. I’m sure they would carry in school for free if allowed, but if you paid them an extra $500/month, I’m sure they’d be even more agreeable!
Personal Self-Defense, it’s really a job for all of us. Some are prepared to defend themselves, while others choose not to.
Self-Reliance, what happened to that concept? Oh, IT’S NOT MY JOB!
Ok, then who’s job is it to protect yourself?
madmax is just another paid troll, or PROLL.
Do NOT interact with him. He is here to stir up shi* and paid to do so.
D
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F
T
P
Apophis!
Welcome back! Long time no see!
Where ya been?
Got your ass handed to you and now you come back and call me a troll!
I’m so surprised!
Apophis, hold out your hand.
From Max, A*s, this is the hand of Apophis.
Apophis, this is your A*s.
Apophis, your A*s has now been handed to you.
.
.
(Note: This is just K-12, not including College)
Table 8: Type of Weapon/Force Used in Crime in Schools, by Year
The Year 2004
Weapon Type/Force Used
Personal Weapons… 25,050
None… 4,176
Other… 2,842
Knife/Cutting Instrument… 2,852
Handgun… 497
Blunt Object… 469
Firearm (type not stated)… 146
Other Firearm…154
Explosives… 95
Motor Vehicle… 71
Fire/Incendiary Device… 88
Rifle… 37
Shotgun… 24
Drugs/Narcotics/Sleeping Pills… 6
Poison… 16
Asphyxiation… 2
Unknown… 1,098
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/schoolviolence/2007/schoolviolence.pdf
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Again, this is just K-12 for one year – 2004.
Apophis, here is your A*s again.
Please keep it this time. Nobody else wants it.
Table 10: Arrestees of Crime in Schools, by Offense, by Year
The Year 2004
Crimes Against Persons:
Simple Assault… 14,220
Intimidation … 1,776
Aggravated Assault…1,531
Forcible Fondling…446
Kidnapping/Abduction…107
Forcible Rape…60
Sexual Assault With An Object…36
Forcible Sodomy…22 (The favorite of Apophis!)
Statutory Rape…30
Murder and Nonnegligent Manslaughter…5
Incest…5
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/schoolviolence/2007/schoolviolence.pdf
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Tables A & B are also very interesting.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/schoolviolence/2007/schoolviolence.pdf
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:29 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:30 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:39 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 10:32 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
Apophis
Posted August 26, 2008 at 5:54 pm | Permalink
madmax is just another paid troll, or PROLL.
Do NOT interact with him. He is here to stir up shi* and paid to do so.
D
N
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P
==================================================================
Let’s not lose sight of this most eloquent post from Apophis.
Paid to stir up shi*?
No Apophis, it’s my pleasure to prove you wrong – for F R E E ! ! !
So Apophis,
Pull up a chair. Have a cold one. (You may need SEVERAL.)
Where HAVE you been?
Curious minds are dying to know!
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 6:47 am | Permalink
Of course YOU don’t have a problem with it mccluer, you parrot whatever the reichwing says.
Most likely, this will turn into a teacher bashing, ad hominem filled thread that will be pointless within a few hours. When the price family criminals start chiming in, this thread is over.
=======================================================
Now Apophis, where was this brutal teacher bashing that you predicted would occur? And why would you think anyone would bash teachers?
I missed it.
I didn’t see any teacher bashing at all.
I did see one teacher get his ass handed to him on the basis of something stupid he said, a stupid thing he said FIVE TIMES, in FIVE DIFFERENT POSTS, but I didn’t see anyone being attacked for no reason. Certainly, no one was attacked just because they were a teacher.
It’s an honorable profession, for those who truly want to teach kids, and not indoctrinate them.
…..sorry madmax, I actually have a full time job and can’t spend all my life on here as you are paid to do.
…………….Now to your assertion that I “had my ass handed to me”…………….that assertion of yours would be only validated by like-minded reichwingers. Your opinion, as well as other reichwingers, is truly irrelevent.
I have LABS to grade, then I intend to listen to inspiring speeches from our own Gov. Sebelius and later from future Supreme Court Justice Hillary Clinton.
Proll away madmax, get all of the other reichwingers ALL LATHERED UP!
The rest of us can sit back and LAUGH at your stupidity!
Ok Apophis
Carry on.
Ass in hand.
Don’t go away mad Apophis.
Just go away.
madmax the proll!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL
LOL
LOL
Apophis,
Just remember…
Apophis
Posted August 23, 2008 at 8:29 am | Permalink
It is totally inappropriate, under any circumstance, for education professionals to “pack heat” in a school.
madmax…………..thanks for re-posting the ultimate truth in the matter.
None of you reichwingers have been able to propose any logical reason why teachers “packing heat” in schools should be allowed.
not iota…………………LOL
Your welcome Apophis.
I did post the ultimate truth.
Constrasts very clearly with your posts.
14,220 Simple Assaults in Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
1,531 Aggravated Assaults in Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
446 Forcible Fonlings in Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
107 Kidnappings in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
60 Rapes in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
36 Sexual Assaults with an Object in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
22 Forcible Sodomies in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
30 Statutory Rapes in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
5 Murders in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
5 Incest cases in our Public Schools. No reason to have teachers able to defend our kids.
Thanks for clearing that up, Apophis.
Apophis,
So how was your assertion a null set?
Let me here the great educational professional explain this to us.
Who’s the great educational professional?
Max,
Shhh…. I am playing to his ego in hopes that he might actually attempt to answer the question.
Sorry Nathan, guess I scared Apophis away from splaining himself.
Right.
Max,
You didn’t scare anyone away. This is how every gun thread goes.
Once they get tired of repeating their one liners over and over again, they leave.
They never stick around to defend what they say, make an actual argument, or have a real discussion.