If you lost your job at a Target store, reportedly because you wrote on a wall, it doesn’t logically follow that you would drive 30 miles to the state’s Democratic Party headquarters and fatally shoot its chairman. Or, for that matter, that you would then go threaten someone at the state Baptist convention office. Indeed, maybe there are no conclusions to be drawn from Wednesday’s fatal shooting in Little Rock, other than that a disturbed gunman killed somebody and then was himself killed. Still, in this time of bitter politics, you have to wonder: Was the murder of Arkansas Democratic Party chairman Bill Gwatney by Timothy Dale Johnson some kind of partisan hate crime?
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179 Comments
Wow Rhonda, I guess this thread is a reward for all your fellow liberals here to get all excited about.
Why do I have to wonder if this was some kind of partisan hate crime?
Can you give us some facts or do you just like fueling the fire of speculation for your fellow liberal posters here who love to go on and on about how the Conservatives are zombie killers for Rush Limbaugh?
Search of gunman’s house finds weapons and a will
By ANDREW DeMILLO – 1 hour ago
SEARCY, Ark. (AP) — The sheriff’s office says a search of Arkansas gunman Timothy Dale Johnson’s home turned up 14 guns, antidepressants, his last will and testament and a Post-It note that bore his victim’s last name and a telephone number.
Police are exploring possible links between Johnson, 50, and Arkansas Democratic Party chairman Bill Gwatney, 48. Johnson shot Gwatney to death Wednesday and was killed by officers after a 30-minute chase.
Gwatney owned three Little Rock area car dealerships and Wednesday’s search of Johnson’s home turned up two sets of keys for vehicles from Gwatney car lots. The guns included a pistol and 13 long guns.
From this:
“Indeed, maybe there are no conclusions to be drawn…”
to this:
“Still, in this time of bitter politics, you have to wonder: Was the murder of Arkansas Democratic Party chairman Bill Gwatney by Timothy Dale Johnson some kind of partisan hate crime?”
Libs. You gotta love ‘em.
Search of gunman’s house finds weapons and a will
Doesn’t sound like evidence of anything.
search of Johnson’s home turned up two sets of keys for vehicles from Gwatney car lots.
Sounds more like a lead than anything else.
Looks pretty cut and dried to me.
Except what was left out.
“it doesn’t logically follow that you would drive 30 miles to the state’s Democratic Party headquarters and fatally shoot its chairman.”
This is incomplete. It gives the impression he walked in and fired.
According to accounts, he walked in and asked to see his victim.
So without any ohter evidence, circumstantial evidence is this was a politically motivated murder.
Sometimes, your first instinct on a story is not your best.
This would seem to be one of those cases.
I’ll admit that until I heard more about the shooter, my first intinct was to go shopping for bullet-proof vests this morning.
“Still, in this time of bitter politics, you have to wonder: Was the murder of Arkansas Democratic Party chairman Bill Gwatney by Timothy Dale Johnson some kind of partisan hate crime?”
—————-
How the hell would anyone know?
Rhonda, for once, think will you? No one here knows this guy’s background. Quit fomenting the bitter politics that you decry.
“Right now we don’t have any indication of motive as far as it deals with Mr. Gwatney,” police Lt. Terry Hastings said.
Hate Crime? As if murder is something other than hate? Can murder be a “Love Crime”?
Rhonda Holman=BDP
Sounds like a person who may have struggled with depression, thus the antidepressants found at his home.
I’m going to guess he may have been dissatisfied with one of the two cars he bought at the victim’s dealership. Further, maybe he didn’t respond as he would have in good mental health. Good a guess as any.
Do we have to have a political reason?
Gosh - we wouldn’t want to let waiting for facts get in the way of wild speculation and hate-mongering, would we??
Well. What fun is that?
Jeesh. And I thought this blog couln’t sink any lower. I expect this kind of unsupported, and unsupportable, crap out of Capn and Co. You’d hope that someone who wears the title of “journalist,” however meaningless a title it may be (and it’s obviously pretty meaningless), would actually require, ya know, some real facts?.
Guess not.
So without any ohter evidence, circumstantial evidence is this was a politically motivated murder.
Only in a warped little mind.
Instead of running around , waving your hands and shooting yourselves in your feet, why don’t you take a breath and wait for the FACTS to develop?
(There’s constant turmoil in this “adult” romper room!)
Brownlee probably told Rhonda this thread would be a good idea. Idiots.
Who knows what went through the man’s mind. Evidently, it wasn’t rational or sane.
We might never know. Looks to be a guy with depression and his firing at Target was the straw that “broke the camel’s back.”
Was the shooter an Alien from the planet Zoltan? Police haven’t commented on this yet, so it is possible……There is your thread for tomorrow Rhonda!
Getting fired from Target is the End of the World ?only in this losers head, he lived in Ark, he couldn’t turn around and get a crap job at Walmart, or McDonalds to replace his Target one? Then again if I was 50 years old and the best Ive done with my life is Working at Target I might kill myself too
“Right now we have an indication of motive as far as it deals with Mr. Gwatney,” police Lt. Terry Hastings said, “we believe it was Rhonda Holman who lives in Libland, KS”.
Yes I believe it was a partisan hate crime. He seemed to hate car salesmen. Go figure. Rhonda sure nailed this one.
As I said yesterday: Who knows? Right now, there aren’t any facts linking this murder to anything political, as nearly as I am able to discern.
It does make one wonder why he (shooter) drove 30 miles to commit the crime; again, though, did he have a vehicle being repossessed? And, what did he write on the wall that led to his firing by the Target store where he was employed? Must admit, this thread’s premise is a real stretch, given the paucity of facts available.
Let me get this straight:
Target, a VERY liberal corporation, fires an employee for misconduct.
This employee has purchased automobiles from a car dealer who, also, happens to be the Democrat Party Chairman.
This person then causes trouble at a BAPTIST Church.(generally not a liberal denomination).
Then, this person shoots the man who sold him the cars that he can no longer afford?
How do you make this out to be “political” in any way?
Libs, wake up!
If this is some crazy “right wing” warrior, WHY did he work for a rather liberal retailer, and WHY did he buy automobiles from the Democrat Party Chair?
He was one of yours!
Oh, c’mon VT -
Why be limited by mere facts?!?!
This is the news business. We create our own facts. Just tell us what the narrative is - here, the need to bash conservatives.
Yes, that narrative. The never-ending one.
Nathan’s first post just shows, you’re a liberal if you’re anywhere to the left of HIM. What a dipsheet.
EVERYONE is to the left of him except maybe his dad.
Rhonda is not at all left. She’s quite right by what she posts. Its not a stretch at all to question why someone would walk in and shoot the head of the democrats in Ark….give it up. And coming right on the heels of the liberal church shooting too.
You cons have the corner for crazed shooters.
He was one of yours!
Quite the stretch.
He worked at Target.
He bought his cars from the Democrat Party Chairman.
He caused trouble at a (conservative?) Baptist Church.
He was, from what has been posted, more LEFT than Right.
You cons have the corner for crazed shooters.
Just like Rhonda: care to scare up any facts in support of this?
No? More rampant speculation? Gosh, P-mom, maybe you have a future in the news business. Apparantly you don’t need any facts there either. . . .
“Yes I believe it was a partisan hate crime. He seemed to hate car salesmen.”
I think he hated oil cans.
Loosen the tin foil. It’ll be alright.
Not everything in life is partisan. Do you even know if this guy was politically aware?
Damn, give it a rest.
OK, GMC, with your permission (of course), I go without facts to speculate that any one or more was the motive behind yesterday’s shooting, and thus make me some news:
1) The shooter went to kill the Arkansas Chairman of the Democratic Party because he lost his job from a “liberal” corporation, and he wanted to get back at it; or
2) The shooter was upset that the decedent, being a Superdelegate, was a Clinton supporter; or
3) The shooter felt that the McCain ad that says Obama will kill jobs was true; he lost his job; Obama is a Democrat; and thus, he got even; or
4) Influenced by the writings of various “neo-con” authors, he felt it necessary to show his total contempt for the “liberals” running the Democratic Party by taking out one of its leaders, and, as he just lost his job, could only afford the gas to take out the local official.
Do I get to be in the news business now?
I think he hated oil cans.
LOL. As good theory as Rhonda’s (or P-mom’s).
And just as many “facts” to support it.
Pmom if you ever had any objectivity you have lost it all. You really need to get a grip.
don’t forget the soda cans…
VT - if you ever want to give up your practice, you’re a shoe-in.
Those are great. Of course, there’s always the oil-can option.
:-)
VT you forgot to mention that he dropped in at the Baptist convention so he could be saved before going to meet his maker in suicide by police officer.
You could have a future in the news though.
This week I have learned on this blog that Obama is gay, Rush’s sister that he doesn’t have told a guy that he was and always had been gay, Bush should be tried for treason, the Clinton plan to hijack the demo convention, all Christians are in league with the Phelps. Well I could go on but you can see why people have to check in regularly on they will miss out on some important stuff.
Why? (Use Edward’s voice)
Tim Johnson was abused as a child.
Plus he attended public schools.
And Tim was bullied at the public schools.
Tim was poor, and we all know poverty causes crime.
It’s not Tim’s fault, it’s the fault of the gun.
Yes, Tim hated the Democrats. Hate caused the crime.
Why? (Use Edward’s voice)
Why does “why” matter? Dead is dead. Ya ain’t bringing Gwatney back, nor can you bring Johnson back to ask him. And even if you could, what difference does the REASON for the crime make?
“So without any ohter[sic] evidence, circumstantial evidence is this was a politically motivated murder.”
Posted by the genius BlueJay.
I’m not sure I can even read that. But lets try and figure this out.
Oh sure BlueJay, because there is no real evidence to lead to ANY conclusion at this point at all, you think we all should just jump to the conclusion you would like it to be.
What a numbskull.
Let’s see, his thinking is “oh no, I just lost my job at Target, I think I’ll go and drive 30 miles in one of the cars I got from this this guy and just kill myself a DNC chairman. Yeah, that’s what I’ll do for political reasons.
BlueJay’s logic; lost job, have cars from DNC chairman, kill chairman for ‘political’ reasons.
Man you are amazing, I am unable to make those leaps of logic.
lindainks55 posts;
“I’m going to guess he may have been dissatisfied with one of the two cars he bought at the victim’s dealership. Further, maybe he didn’t respond as he would have in good mental health. Good a guess as any.
Do we have to have a political reason?”
That’s as good a guess as any….maybe he knew they’d be reposed since he didn’t have a job…who knows. It’s all speculation at this point.
Columbo would have already figured it out with the clues presented and of course that speck of lint left on the door seal which indicated evidence of recent visit to a store where terry cloth towels are sold, which means Target; at which store there was a spraying of little known insecticide that cause hallucinations in certain people and makes them behave irrationally.
The evidence is pointing towards a RW nut, How many guns did he have, 14. He probably read our RW nuts claiming Obama was going to take his guns away, and being a true con. thought, “When they pry my cold dead fingers off them!”
The guy that was killed owned a bunch of car dealerships. The killer had several sets of keys from the other guys dealership at his home. They re thinking it may be a business upset gone wrong as of now.
May have got a bad salesman…..
He was an only child that always lived with his parents. Both parents had died and he was just lonely and wanted to leave this world. In Arkansas he knew if he killed a republican the state police wouldn’t shoot to kill because they are all in Bill Clintons pocket so he found a big name democrat.
I think I have nailed this one down and we can move on to weighier issues such as how old is the Chinese gymnast really? Lots of speculation here. I say 10.
Two weeks ago Jim Adkisson, 58 shot and killed two people inside a church because he didn’t like their liberal views. Timothy McVeigh was a right wing nut case and Eric Rudolf the Atlanta Olympics bomber is a right wing crack pot too. Not mention all the abortion clinic bombers who are right wing nut cases. Why wouldn’t someone suspect Tim Johnson is right wing nut job too?
okobserver,
Dang okobserver, you did it again….
Simply genius!!!!
Or, he wanted to forever associate the Target logo with his crime.
Phantom
Posted August 14, 2008 at 2:35 pm | Permalink
The evidence is pointing towards a RW nut
phantom: Any of them darkys?
The Unabomber was a liberal Democrat.
Charles Manson, though racist, was also an environut.
Jim Jones was a Marxist, and friends with many Democrats.
We can all play this game.
“In Arkansas he knew if he killed a republican the state police wouldn’t shoot to kill because they are all in Bill Clintons pocket so he found a big name democrat. ”
Ok, there is something very wrong with you too. And here I thought you were just an apologist for them.
What in the unibomber manifesto showed that he was a liberal democrat? Manson is FAR FAR from a democrat. Marxists are NOT democrats.
Obama is a Marxist!
No, they’re all WASPs
PMOM
What, exactly, do the Unabomber and Al Gore disagree on?
They were all protestants?
Marxists are NOT [necessarily] democrats.
No, but the left wing of the Democrats are often Marxists . . .
All the shooters were males…..uh oh…
Obama’s mother might well have had Marxist leanings, even Snopes is having trouble proving that one wrong:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/mother.asp
Marxists are, of course, the worst murderers of all time, and Obama is surrounded by Marxists:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/another_obama_marxist.html
If it’s in an anonymous e-mail then it has to be true!
All the killings happened in the 2nd week of the month. So we need to kill all the protestants, males, and the second week of each month and we’ll all be safe.
Saul Alinsky tactics have been used by both Obama and the Clintons.
In fact, the polarization of American culture is exactly what Alinsky advocated —
And the Marxist, Alinsky, is a hero to the Obamas and to the Clintons.
He shot a car salesman.
Who among us hasn’t wanted to do the same thing at least once in our lives?
Dennis
I was wrong Rhonda. Obviously you knew that there would be liberal idiots who would want to opine on the political leanings of the shooter on the basis of… well, nothing. Just like they do everyday.
Thanks for providing them the opportunity to embarrass themselves.
Paul prove you’re not a Fascist.
The evidence is pointing towards a RW nut, How many guns did he have, 14.
Phantom at 2:35.
—–
Oh come on, Phantom, you don’t even get to true right wing nut status until you have at least 20 guns. At only 14, you’re just a piker! A babe. A neophite.
Why, I’ll bet there’s democrats here who own over 14 guns.
Phantom, come to think of it, you’ve hit on something. It was the guns. We all know that guns cause crime. It was the guns talking to him. They speak: “Kill, kill, kill.” He just couldn’t help himself. And since the Democratic party HQ had a “gunbuster” (I’m speculating on that, but why not!) he just had to go in there and show them. It was the evil influence of those mind-controlling guns . . .
It was the evil influence of those mind-controlling guns . . .
——-
My .308 told me to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich…so I did…….I didn’t want to argue.
“One either believes in conspiracy or one believes in coicidence. And I do not believe in coicidence.”
V in V for Vendetta
CapnAmerica
Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:42 pm | Permalink
“One either believes in conspiracy or one believes in coicidence. And I do not believe in coicidence.”
V in V for Vendetta
—
Well - that settles it! If it’s in a movie, well, it must be true. This must be where Capn gets all his brilliant deductions.
That would explain a lot.
Gmc, did your arsenal compell you to write that response?
“Mr. Johnson did not indicate his party preference on his voter registration, but voted in the Republican presidential primary earlier this year, according to records at the White County registrar’s office. He voted in Republican primaries in 2002 and 2004, and in a Democratic primary and runoff in 2006, the record shows.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/us/15arkansas.html?scp=1&sq=timothy%20dale%20johnson&st=cse
Maybe it was a case of voter’s remorse? He was confused.
GMC is still mad when I fried his ass early showing that it’s the CONs who successfully repress the facts they don’t like . . .
Although Susan Wagle was quoted by “The Eagle” this morning saying that poor people really can afford health-care because they “have cell phones and HBO” which was pretty accurate from the description I got of the event yesterday.
Good job, Eagle.
BTW, you gotta admit, it was a really cool movie . . .
Yea, that’s it Capn. We’re all about repression. Ya really showed me (roll’s eyes).
Well, not really. But I bet you saw it in a movie once . . .
“In fact, the polarization of American culture is exactly what Alinsky advocated.”
Really, Paul?
Did you read his two books cover to cover like I did?
I’m guessing not, because the only place I could find Alinsky’s first book, Reville for Radicals was the research library of U of Kansas in Lawrence.
He always stressed how much ordinary people have in common when fighting the powerful special interests that run society.
I guess that’s “polarization” if you’re an idiot.
And you, sir, are an idiot.
They did, Phantom. The 1911 said “write, write.” The 12 gauge picked out the cool words, and the .22s all decided where to put the italics.
That’s it; I’m controlled by my guns.
And Anti’s .308. It’s possessed.
And if it’s true for me, well, it must be have been for Mr. Johnson. . . .
This speculation stuff’s kinda fun! I see why you do it, Rhonda.
[In head]
20 guage: SHUTUP!!
.243: Now you’ve done it - you woke up the shotguns.
9mm: See - I told you you shouldn’t have bought that 12 gauge - he’s a trouble-maker.
.243: Yes, we need a .308. I command you: Buy Anti’s .308 . . . Buy Anti’s .308 . . . Buy Anti’s .308!)
[eyes glazed over, mindlessly]
Anti - you must sell that darling .308. I’m commanded so. . .
Anti - you must sell that darling .308. I’m commanded so. . .
——-
Maybe, but only after it and my 12 gauge help me fill my freezer. Then the grill will start demanding to be lit…it never ends..
My arrows talk as well, they are very fond of turkeys…..that is all they talk about! Blah Blah, turkey this, turkey that!
And then there is my fishing poles…..Man, talk about some chatty Kathys’!!!
This wingnut written all over it, what democrat would crossover to vote in the opposing parties primary?
Phantom
Posted August 14, 2008 at 4:27 pm | Permalink
This wingnut written all over it, what democrat would crossover to vote in the opposing parties primary?
——–
BlueJay
Phantom
Posted August 14, 2008 at 4:27 pm | Permalink
This [sic] wingnut written all over it, what democrat would crossover to vote in the opposing parties primary?
—
I assume you mean “This HAS wingnut written . . . ”
Oh, YEA! He’s a real wingnut! He’s (gasp!) unregistered as to party preference, and he voted (that speaks volumes - he VOTED!!), over the last few elections, in both (BOTH! Oh deary dear!) parties’ primaries. That speaks volumes. Real wingnut, he is.
Or he can’t really decide what he is? That would be so - ya know - normal. Wow - this history puts him, politically in the . . . wait for it . . . in the MIDDLE of the political spectrum! And we all know that’s where the killers are!!
You don’t actually think before you write, do you, Phantom?
Or are you listening to your marbles again? If you must listen to your marbles, listen to the big shooter marbles. The little ones get whacked around, and they lie. Or get confused. I don’t really understand which.
Trust me - ignore your marbles. They’ll only confuse you.
I wonder what bayonets say?? Chas?
“I wish I had a trigger.”
“’He loved his job,’ said Jeannie Liles, a neighbor. Ms. Liles said she could not recall Mr. Johnson’s ever making political comments or saying anything about the Democratic Party.”
From the same Times article quoted above. I think it is impossible to ascribe any political motivation from what is now known.
Consider this graph from the same article:
“Mr. Johnson’s neighbors on his semi-rural street in Searcy, Ark. said he was a quiet man who played with the neighborhood children [does the preceding make him a Priest?] and dispensed vegetables from his garden on his day off [a socialist, maybe?].”
From the article it doesn’t sound like anyone knew him very well. So much for small town nosiness.
ANTI
Posted August 14, 2008 at 4:20 pm | Permalink
My arrows talk as well, they are very fond of turkeys…..that is all they talk about! Blah Blah, turkey this, turkey that!
Anti, in all honesty, I giggled out loud when I read that.
But I’m sure that it was really my butter dish laughing, not me.
ha ha! ;)
Well I’m off to my padded cell, have fun y’all!!! giggity giggity goo!!!
From the article it doesn’t sound like anyone knew him very well. So much for small town nosiness.
Ya mean, Steven, that there was no basis for Rhonda’s, or JR’s, or Capn’s, or Phantom’s rampant speculation at all? That prudence might dictate actually looking for facts!
Shocking.
Better sign Capn, JR, Phantom up for journalism. Of course, Phantom will have to stop listening to his marbles.
Can’t help it my mind races at several timees the speed of my typing.
I know crossover voting in primaries is a hallmark of the Repug. party. Only people I’ve ever read boasting about it have been RWE.
My Bayonet, it says, “Use me first, I’m not a lethal weapon. I can subdue attackers without killing them.”
My 45 says, “Never bring a knife to a gunfight.”
My 12 gauge says to my 45, “You call yourself a gun? Now I’M a gun!”
I know crossover voting in primaries is a hallmark of the Repug. party.
1) you apparantly can’t spell “Republican,” even abreviated. That’s OK, neither can several others here.
2) You “know” this how, exactly? Your own research? Careful study over years? Did you get a research grant to learn this important “truth,” or is it something your granny whispered in your ear?
Yea. You also “knew” all about the motivations of this shooter. Of course, you were almost certainly wrong; at least there is no evidence to support your contention, and at least some directly contradictory to it.
Let’s face it, Phantom. You were talking out of your ass, and the house of cards you attempted to assemble has promptly collapsed (that makes you perfect for journalism as the Eagle apparantly practices it).
So what you “know” isn’t worth diddly, is it? Better go back to listening to the marbles. . . .
In recent memory, influential members of which party advocated crossing over in the primearies. Quick, now this is a test!
Who boasts about partaking in “Operation Chaos”, Dem. or repub.? Point made.
Franklin
Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:55 pm | Permalink
Let me get this straight:
Target, a VERY liberal corporation, fires an employee for misconduct.
How do you make this out to be “political” in any way?
=========================================================
By simply making ridiculous statements like, “Target, a VERY liberal corporation.”
Hell, franklinphelps would see some liberal conspiracy in the sun rising in the east.
As for the thread itself: Some moron got fired, flipped out and killed somebody, then committed suicide by cop. Two people are dead.
What is the difference between:
“Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?” — and what Pmom asked me:
—–
“Political_mama
Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:24 pm | Permalink
Paul prove you’re not a Fascist.
—–
Honestly, the hypocrites on the Left just don’t get it. In nearly every thread, they do EXACTLY what they accuse the Right of doing.
Capn
Alinsky USES the word “polarization” —
Alinsky says that “change means movement and movement causes friction” — words to that effect.
Alinksy also says that the “establishment abhors conflict” (I agree) But Alinsky insists on polarizing EVERYTHING as a tactic.
Steven
There is no “Priest pedophile problem” — there was a Priest homosexual problem, in the Catholic Church.
Actually, less than 1% of all Priests were involved in any sexual misconduct.
Of that number, nearly all were involved with post-puberty MALE sexual misconduct.
In other words, there were a very few male homosexual predators in the Priesthood.
Your anti-Catholic attack was dishonest and very bigoted.
JM
You slyly left out part of my quote.
I said that the shooter worked at Target, (Dayton Hudson IS a liberal corporation.)
However, I also pointed out that he bought his cars from the Democrat Party Chairman.
Not something your typical Right Wing Nut would do, huh?
You are absolutely lying again Paul. Do you really feel so inept that you have to lie to yourself about what really went on? As if those kids were asking to be preyed upon by those they looked up to?
They were predators, pedophiles, most of the boys were around puberty. Puberty does not end for boys till around 18. Then they would be not held criminally liable had it been over the age of consent.
PAUL, on the fascist comment- you were touting that snopes hadn’t been able to deny Obama’s …whatever. And I want to know how you go about proving that you’re not something.
Franklinphelps, you took a completely non-partisan, non-political murder-suicide, and made it into a political issue. If that ain’t the meaning of the word, duh, I don’t know what is. You politicize every thing you write. If all the libs in the world were no more, you would commit suicide yourself because you would have no one to put down anymore but yourself. What a moron.
The neocons ripped off the first election, this isn’t merely a conspiracy, it actually happened. We asked to tighten up the ability to skew voting results and who fought against it? The cons.
From then, we have about a zillion episodes of Bush and Co being as anti-American (constitutionally) as possible. They have cheated, lied, played dirty, elected yes men, spied on citizens, then protected themselves when they were caught, tortured and abused and let soldiers take the rap for it. And you think that it is ok the way that operation chaos and the like are manipulating elections. On top of it, the rich Bushco supporters have been given endless tax dollars to continue the abuse of Americans.
There is so much more…Icant even name it all. Your party is F A S C I S M.
There was a neat little exercise that we did on another board. The question was this:
It’s the late 1920’s, early 30’s and you are a German Citizen. At what point would you start turning on your ‘patriotism for your country’ because of the acts of your country?
Before answering, this takes some research on the events that were happening during Hitler’s rise.
Explain your answers.
“Your party is F A S C I S M”
More idiocy from PeeMom.
pmom
YOU are wrong.
Pedophilia, by DEFINITION involves children BEFORE puberty.
There were very, very few female victims.
They were almost ALL male victims.
And, almost all of those male victims were past puberty.
That makes it Homosexual statutory rape, not pedophelia.
That is the clinical and legal fact!
JM
You are not, exactly, nonpartisan yourself.
This was a stupid thread, to begin with.
I had a point:
It is just as easy, perhaps easier, to believe this was a left wing nut, as it is to think he was a right wing nut.
Point made.
The conception of this thread was an attempt to politicize, from the beginning.
I simply shined a little light on the poor logic, and pushed back.
End of WWI-
“This ‘Stab in the Back’ theory would become hugely popular among many Germans who found it impossible to swallow defeat. During the war, Adolf Hitler became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on Jews and Marxists in Germany for undermining the war effort. To Hitler, and so many others, the German politicians who signed the armistice on November 11, 1918, would become known as the “November Criminals.”"
Now, who says that liberals are undermining the war efforts today and from Vietnam? So there is example number 1.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/ends.htm
F A S C I S M
LOL
Receiving a lesson on fascism from a bitter old nag that doesn’t even know the definition!
You want to know what a perfect example of fascism is? Read Hillary’s failed health care legislation from the ’90s.
I spent a lot of time and money fighting it. Because of the pompous attitude of Glickman and his obnoxious staff I did every thing I could to get Tiahrt elected.
Fascism? Look no further than the current platform of the democrat party.
bitter pompous nitwit
Pmom
It would have taken you a long time to react to Hitler.
Why?
Because Hitler first picked on the rich. Most of the rich were Jews.
Also, Hitler used a bunch of Homosexuals, the Brownshirts, to do his dirty work, and you might not want to oppose the gay lobby.
So, for you, I think you would have been silent for a very long time.
“The treaty had the effect of humiliating the German nation before the world. This would lead to a passionate desire in many Germans, including Adolf Hitler, to see their nation throw off the “shackles” of the treaty and once again take its place in the world - the “rebirth” of Germany through a strong nationalist government. In years to come, Hitler would speak out endlessly against the treaty and gain much support. In addition, he would rail against the ‘November Criminals’ and ‘Jewish Marxists.’ ”
The PNAC (a neocon org with BushCo leaders) believe the USA needs to regain their sole superpower status. Note the neocon’s distain for NATO, and treaties that put the US on an equal plane.
Example number 2.
Also, Hitler was a pagan.
Hitler would fit in nicely with the radical atheists on this Blog.
You are all answering too quickly, I’m going through the history, which you are quite nicely ignoring.
Pmom
Hitler took advantage of class envy.
American Democrats take advantage of class envy.
Hitler fomented religious friction and made fun of Jews.
Liberal Atheist Democrats make fun of all people of faith. You see that daily, on this Blog.
“Hitler’s anti-Semitic outbursts impressed his superiors including his mentor, Captain Karl Mayr (who later died in Buchenwald). In August 1919, Hitler was given the job of lecturing returning German prisoners of war on the dangers of Communism and pacifism, as well as democracy and disobedience. He also delivered tirades against the Jews that were well received by the weary soldiers who were looking for someone to blame for all their misfortunes. ”
And who always spouts off about the dangers of communism and socialism, gives speeches to soldiers about the dangers of us liberals? The conservatives.
“You want to know what a perfect example of fascism is? Read Hillary’s failed health care legislation from the ’90s.
I spent a lot of time and money fighting it”
Oh I don’t doubt that a bit.
Gotta protect the wife’s money. Wouldn’t want any poor people to get health care.
Goon.
It’s like paulie is trying to PROVE he is an idiot.
The entire Nazi SA was not gay. A few of its leaders were. MOST of the SA were thugs like you paulie. They like to rough people up for fun.
And this?
“Because Hitler first picked on the rich. Most of the rich were Jews.”
SOME of the rich were Jews.
But it was the wealthy non Jew industrialists that helped make Hitler because they thought they could control him.
Sorta like what happened in American with bush except Hitler managed to turn the tables.
“Early the next morning, sitting in his cot in the barracks of the 2nd Infantry Regiment watching the mice eat bread crumbs he left for them on the floor, Hitler remembered the pamphlet and read it. He was delighted to find the pamphlet, written by Drexler, reflected political thinking much like his own - building a strong nationalist, pro-military, anti-Semitic party made up of working class people. ”
Now, here is where it is interesting, because the worker’s group was militant- a strong middle class is where most of Germans were. You get their vote and you get in. He USED them. How does the republicons keep their hold on the middle class? By marrying their beliefs as pro-God. It sure isn’t because they have any other benefit.
“Hitler took advantage of class envy.”
How utterly simplistic.
Hitler took advantage of German misery.
Nearly all of the leadership of the Nazi Brownshirts was homosexual.
Evil comes in every race, creed, color, nationality and sexual orientation.
“The money was used to buy more advertising and print leaflets. The German Workers’ Party now featured Hitler as the main attraction at its meetings. In his speeches Hitler railed against the Treaty of Versailles and delivered anti-Semitic tirades, blaming the Jews for Germany’s problems. Attendance slowly increased, numbering in the hundreds.
Hitler took charge of party propaganda in early 1920, and also recruited young men he had known in the Army. He was aided in his recruiting efforts by Army Captain Ernst Röhm, a new party member, who would play a vital role in Hitler’s eventual rise to power.
In Munich, there were many alienated, maladjusted soldiers and ex-soldiers with a thirst for adventure and a distaste for the peace brought on by the Treaty of Versailles and the resulting democratic republic. They joined the German Workers’ Party in growing numbers”
In his speeches conservatives railed against the liberals and delivered anti-muslim/gay/liberal tirades, blaming the liberals for America’s problems. gee, change a few words around, and that really fits.
You’re an idiot paulie.
A modern equivalent to the SA would be the GOP goons who were sent to disrupt the Florida recounts.
They were thugs like you.
But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that someone once recruited to beat up gay people in parks would try to make another group of thugs into homosexuals.
You’re like a soccer ball here paulie. Do ya notice I’m not the only one punting you about?
PMOM
Rohm was openly gay.
Hitler used the gay leadership of the SA to rise to power.
It was only later that Hitler turned against Homosexuality, in a paranoid desire to crush the SA, which he believed had become too powerful.
BJ
You are the lying thug.
I turned REAL gay bashers into the police.
You would stop at nothing to advance your cause, and I am much better than you on that count.
Liberals want to silence opposition.
Liberals make fun of religious people.
Liberals use class envy as a tool.
Liberals, you are the modern day Hitlers.
“He proceeded to outline the Twenty Five Points of the German Workers’ Party, its political platform, which included; the union of all Germans in a greater German Reich, rejection of the Treaty of Versailles, the demand for additional territories for the German people (Lebensraum), citizenship determined by race with no Jew to be considered a German, all income not earned by work to be confiscated, a thorough reconstruction of the national education system, religious freedom except for religions which endanger the German race, and a strong central government for the execution of effective legislation”
The racism, the American patriotism, the religion *except when it wasn’t the RIGHT religion- such as with the militant christians*, and strong central government *READ MILITARY*.
Heh heh now he’s ranting!
“I turned REAL gay bashers into the police.”
Do you mean cops or the music group?
Paul shut up for awhile and pay attention you might learn something. I’m giving you the play by play so that you as a flag waving nationalist can see this play out- and determine for yourself when you would have pulled support.
Why were all the Catholics pro Nazi? And yet, you try to say that we’re today’s equivalent of Nazis?
Tell me, is it liberals who are right now who are fanning the flames of Muslim hatred in America? Those who support freedom of religion? FEAR FEAR FEAR PRIDE PRIDE PRIDE.
BJ
You are a classless, clueless ass.
You have never stuck your neck out for anyone in your life, much less someone that you disagreed with.
I do so on a regular basis.
Pmom
Hitler hated Christians.
Hitler just realized he could not get rid of everyone at the same time.
“You have never stuck your neck out for anyone in your life, much less someone that you disagreed with.
I do so on a regular basis.”
Yes we know paulie. You wear a cape.
But you’re supposed to tuck it in at the shoulders, not the belt line.
“Hitler was now gaining notoriety outside of the Nazi Party for his rowdy, at times hysterical tirades against the Treaty of Versailles, rival politicians and political groups, especially Marxists, and always the Jews.
”
Sounds like Rush doesn’t it?
“Slowly, they began looking toward the rising politician, Adolf Hitler, and the growing Nazi movement as the vehicle to hitch themselves to. Hitler was already looking at how he could carry his movement to the rest of Germany. He traveled to Berlin to visit nationalist groups during the summer of 1921.
But in his absence, he faced an unexpected revolt among his own Nazi Party leadership in Munich.
The Party was still run by an executive committee whose original members now considered Hitler to be highly overbearing, even dictatorial. To weaken Hitler’s position, they formed an alliance with a group of socialists from Augsburg.
Hitler rushed back to Munich and countered them by announcing his resignation from the Party on July 11, 1921.
They realized the loss of Hitler would effectively mean the end of the Nazi Party. Hitler seized the moment and announced he would return on the condition that he was made chairman and given dictatorial powers.
Infuriated committee members, including Anton Drexler, founder of the Party, held out at first. Meanwhile, an anonymous pamphlet appeared entitled: “Adolf Hitler: Is he a traitor?” It attacked Hitler’s lust for power and criticized the violence prone men now surrounding him. Hitler responded to its publication in a Munich newspaper by suing for libel and later won a small settlement.
The executive committee of the Nazi Party eventually backed down and Hitler’s demands were put to a vote of the party members. Hitler received 543 votes for, and only one against.
At the next gathering, July 29, 1921, Adolf Hitler was introduced as Führer of the Nazi Party, marking the first time that title was publicly used to address him. ”
Quelching any opposition- total allegience…
The Bush Regime.
Taking paulie to school political mama?
Good luck. He’s probably sucking his thumb and getting into his bush underoos just now.
“The German currency, the mark, slipped drastically in value. It had been four marks to the U.S. dollar until the war reparations were announced. Then it became 75 to the dollar and in 1922 sank to 400 to the dollar. The German government asked for a postponement of payments. The French refused. The Germans defied them by defaulting on their payments. In response to this, in January 1923, the French Army occupied the industrial part of Germany known as the Ruhr.
The German mark fell to 18,000 to the dollar. By July 1923, it sank to 160,000. By August, 1,000,000. And by November 1923, it took 4,000,000,000 marks to obtain a dollar.
Germans lost their life savings. Salaries were paid in worthless money. Groceries cost billions. Hunger riots broke out.
For the moment, the people stood by their government, admiring its defiance of the French. But in September of 1923, the German government made the fateful decision to resume making payments. Bitter resentment and unrest swelled among the people, inciting extremist political groups to action and quickly bringing Germany to the brink of chaos. ”
The administration knows the best way to motivate people into action is to hit em where it really hurts.
As far as the beer hall incident, hitler did it by force. Bush had more power already than that, he was able to get his operatives in where they simply ruled for him.
“Overnight, Hitler became a nationally and internationally known figure due to massive press coverage. The judges in this sensational trial were chosen by a Nazi sympathizer in the Bavarian government. They allowed Hitler to use the courtroom as a propaganda platform from which he could speak at any length on his own behalf, interrupt others at any time and even cross examine witnesses.
Rather than deny the charges, Hitler admitted wanting to overthrow the government and outlined his reasons, portraying himself as a German patriot and the democratic government itself, its founders and leaders, as the real criminals.
“I alone bear the responsibility. But I am not a criminal because of that. If today I stand here as a revolutionary, it is as a revolutionary against the revolution. There is no such thing as high treason against the traitors of 1918.” …
But newspapers quoted Hitler at length. Thus, for the first time, the German people as a whole had a chance to get acquainted with this man and his thinking. And many liked what they heard. ”
——————————————–
Just like GBush’s war crimes, his lying to overthrow someone else’s government….those who protect him live on this board as well.
———————————————
“The man who is born to be a dictator is not compelled. He wills it. He is not driven forward, but drives himself. There is nothing immodest about this. Is it immodest for a worker to drive himself toward heavy labor? Is it presumptuous of a man with the high forehead of a thinker to ponder through the nights till he gives the world an invention? The man who feels called upon to govern a people has no right to say, ‘If you want me or summon me, I will cooperate.’ No! It is his duty to step forward. The army which we have now formed is growing day to day. I nourish the proud hope that one day the hour will come when these rough companies will grow to battalions, the battalions to regiments, the regiments to divisions, that the old cockade will be taken from the mud, that the old flags will wave again, that that there will be a reconciliation at the last great divine judgment which we are prepared to face. For it is not you, gentlemen, who pass judgment on us. That judgment is spoken by the eternal court of history…Pronounce us guilty a thousand times over: the goddess of the eternal court of history will smile and tear to pieces the State Prosecutor’s submissions and the court’s verdict; for she acquits us.”
———————————————-
He puts himself forward as someone who worked his way up. Basically calling the constitution *LAW* a Gd piece of paper in his way of making the country better.
Franklin
Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:51 pm | Permalink
JM
You are not, exactly, nonpartisan yourself.
================================================
Well, duh . . . there’s that word again.
Ya know, phredy phelps is a nutcase who thinks he’s right. You most definitely inhabit the same plane of existence.
Mein Kampf
“In his book, Hitler divides humans into categories based on physical appearance, establishing higher and lower orders, or types of humans. At the top, according to Hitler, is the Germanic man with his fair skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Hitler refers to this type of person as an Aryan. He asserts that the Aryan is the supreme form of human, or master race. ”
—————–
Just put white christian hard working business owner in there. Christian business owners deserve their status because of their superiorness….kindof like you Paul- those who can afford health insurance deserve to live and the rest are a sap on society?
—————–
All the human culture, all the results of art, science, and technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the creative product of the Aryan…”
————————-
American…rich.
————————-
“Hitler goes on to say that subjugated peoples actually benefit by being conquered because they come in contact with and learn from the superior Aryans. However, he adds they benefit only as long as the Aryan remains the absolute master and doesn’t mingle or inter-marry with inferior conquered peoples”
——————————
Hey who on the board recently argued that the blacks should be thankful for slavery because if it weren’t for us they’d still be in Africa?
———————————
“But it is the Jews, Hitler says, who are engaged in a conspiracy to keep this master race from assuming its rightful position as rulers of the world, by tainting its racial and cultural purity and even inventing forms of government in which the Aryan comes to believe in equality and fails to recognize his racial superiori”
——————————-
Just take out all the racism, and replace it with liberals
———————————–
“Hitler describes the struggle for world domination as an ongoing racial, cultural, and political battle between Aryans and Jews. He outlines his thoughts in detail, accusing the Jews of conducting an international conspiracy to control world finances, controlling the press, inventing liberal democracy as wells as Marxism, promoting prostitution and vice, and using culture to spread disharmony. ”
———————-
Wow, that’s practically word for word the conservative mantra. Socialism, vice, cultural, liberal media….
_________________________
“Hitler states that since the Aryans are the master race, they are entitled simply by that fact to acquire more land for themselves”
——————————–
American taking over the less inept- wars for our oil consumption…
————————-
P.M., you are sooooo 1942!
So finish readingit for yourself, and decide at what point you’re ready to admit that you’re being sucked into a fascist ideology.
Libs were sympathetic to Hitler and the “Moose” in the USA pre-war.
Anyway there is a guy who claims to have a Sasquatch(sp?) body in Georgia(USA)….He sent off samples and will have the media to look at the body next week….I think he found a dead Samoan.
the neocons quickly disappeared. Hmm.
I guess they don’t like this exercise.
Libs were sympathetic to Hitler and the “Moose” in the USA pre-war. During and after…They are always on the enemies side first. Hate America First, that is their slogan, own it. See Harry Reid. See Hollywood. See leftist posters on this very blog. See Nancy P-lousy.
These silly Nazi- Conservative comparisons are standard leftist wacko fair.
But reading in them, I am struck by the thought that a minimum IQ requirement for posting on this blog would be an excellent idea.
Call me when you get to a point, P-mom.
As noted before, the nice thing about the Bush=Hitler comparisons is that it lets me know who I can ignore is beyond being serious.
That would be you, P-mom.
These silly Nazi- Conservative comparisons are standard leftist wacko fair.
——
I agree, they are giving me bloggerhea.
I think I’ve figured out what Bush Derangement Syndrome is: What rational people would’ve thought absured just 7 yrs. ago, now is not only possible/probable but also very likely to be the case.
And back to the toilet I go! Damn bloggerhea!!! I only hope I have enough tabloids to wipe with…..Oh Jeeez!!!
These silly Nazi- Conservative comparisons are standard leftist wacko fair.
Yup. Been there, seen that. Over and over again, ad nauseum.
The real shame, of course, is that it cheapens the history they are attempting to compare to. Much like attempting to link denying AGW to denying the Holocaust, what it does is cheapen the memory of the Holocaust. If everyone you oppose is a “fascist,” pretty soon the word takes no meaning anymore.
They’ll find themselves like the boy who cried wolf. If/when the real thing ever comes around, no one will notice. People will write off the alarms as “we’ve heard it all before.”
That’s what happens when one uses real historical tragedy as nothing more than political posturing. All it really proves is that P-mom neither understands fascism nor history.
The comfort of P.M. & Phant’s frilly, lofty, and fairytale cloud like post will have to do..for the wipe…….Ahhhhhh (squeek)….Ahhhh
GMC70, I have stated that in the past, only not as well as you sir.
GMC70, is that the C series body style of P-up?
Political mama you have given a virtual dissertation. I applaud you.
I note in the ankle biter posters that follow you no refutation or argument. Only derision.
Said simpler? They got nothing. You took them to school.
And to think this string of silliness began with the call to blatent speculation, absent any facts; nay, in the face of facts, masquarading as journalism. And some of the left promptly let themselves be led down the primrose path. They simply go where they want to go. Becaue “We don’t need no stinking facts!”
Neither does Rhonda, nor Phantom, nor Capn, nor apparantly P-mom. When all you see is fascists (”they’re everwhere, they’re everywhere!”) no wonder you can’t see reality for your imagining. The tragedy in Arkansas is just another tool to be used to beat the “enemy.” That’s truly sad.
And kinda funny.
With that, folks, I hear the revolvers calling me. They’re feeling neglected. I hope they don’t make me do something awful. They’ve threated to go bang all by themselves if I don’t take them out of the cabinet. I hate it when that happens. . .
Said simpler? They got nothing. You took them to school.
——-
She and you, are Kook crazy. Roll in it!
Step up and own as agreed on by you “Franklinpaulie’s” posts here ANTI and GMC and outlander.
I dare you.
All my .357 says is WAAAABANG! But he is shy and has “daddy issues”….the others are more talkative.
Wow, P-mom, you have JR’s applause. That has all the import of, well, a fart in a bathtub.
Congratulations.
For me, I’m content to call the absurd, simply absurd.
GMC70, is that the C series body style of P-up?
Ya lost me, dude. I’m sure there’s a meaning somewhere, but I’ll be damned if I can find it.
I am applauding political mama in her argument against “Franklin” there GMC.
Do you care to applaud “Franklin”?
C-10 series, chevy/CMC, 196?-1970, cool ass pick-ups..nevermind
CMC=GMC
Oh. The nic!
1970 GMC. Hugger orange, original color, original 350. My baby. When she talks, she says “lope, lope, lope.” Still a work in progress (aren’t they always?). And a rolling biohazard! An appropriate color, I guess.
That’s my problem. Too many hobbies. The GMC. Guitars and music. Shooting/hunting. At some point, I’m gonna have to grow up.
Nah.
I guess I should re state.
Would any of you cons care to rescue “Franklin”?
I’m gonna guess no.
Well, damn you BJ/PM are entertaining, however I will be leaving you….as commanded by my Savage .308….I prefer not to argue….
Good Evening y’all.
“rescue” Franklin?
From what? I don’t see a danger. Just a lot of self-rightous huffing, masquarading as thought.
You and P-mom can have your mutual admiration society all to yourselves. You deserve each other. I have better things to do watch you groom each other, thanks.
1970 GMC. Hugger orange, original color, original 350.
——-
I WILL own one someday. Excellent choice!
Ya got nobody Franklin.
I’m gonna have to grow up.
Nah.
——–
Don’t grow up! I hear you have to wear birkenstocks and call people fascist! That is crazy!!
Well, I am done…Got a big weekend of experiencing nature to rest up for. Good night.
GMC, what bothers me more about this- I presented SOUND history of what went wrong when the German people, were led to do this kind of thing. Hitler himself could not have been so powerful without supporters….the people of Germany.
You dismiss my points as nonsense. So are you the blind sheep, or do you actually support this kind of overtaking of the country?
You put the Holocaust off as the moment in history to be held up as sacred off topic. I put it up for discussion on how we shall never let that come about.
This isn’t a novel about 1984- it’s real, it happened. And history is doomed to repeat itself if we forget the lessons of that tragedy.
I’m afraid if we were in court today, my dear, this woman would have just spanked you soundly.
“I’m afraid if we were in court today, my dear, this woman would have just spanked you soundly.”
Hardly.
Your argument is without merit. Unfounded. Based on supposition.
Now, if you were on stage, and your judges were the same Hollyweird characters that award Oscars…
Got your armband do you testicle?
I am astounded at how little substance you all offer. THe question is legit.
We’re in two wars, potentially three or more soon. And you just can’t see a connection? You are part of the problem.
So I’ll ask again- at what point if you were in Nazi Germany- would your pride for your country be disrupted by what was going on by your country?
I’m going to guess for some of you, the answer is “never”.
“I am astounded at how little substance you all offer.”
You offer none.
Nothing more than democrat party talking points. And sick fantasy.
“Your anti-Catholic attack was dishonest and very bigoted.”
Paul F. Rosell being called dishonest by the likes of you is, well, very dishonest - like everything else you post. I was making light of the allegations that were in play over this story. Are you so incredibly stupid that you did not get that? Not surprised is all I can say.
When I start my company discrediting WSU, the pictures I will have on my letterhead will be those of Paul F. Rosell, Dennis Rader, and Nathan Price. Sorry dumbasses, each of them, for maybe, different reasons.
Steven,
You off your meds again?
Franklin,
I got your back anytime.
#
StevenEDavis
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:13 am | Permalink
“Your anti-Catholic attack was dishonest and very bigoted.”
Paul F. Rosell being called dishonest by the likes of you is, well, very dishonest - like everything else you post. I was making light of the allegations that were in play over this story. Are you so incredibly stupid that you did not get that? Not surprised is all I can say.
When I start my company discrediting WSU, the pictures I will have on my letterhead will be those of Paul F. Rosell, Dennis Rader, and Nathan Price. Sorry dumbasses, each of them, for maybe, different reasons.
————————————-
You know what Steven Davis, you were right when you said you came on this board seldom to discuss the issues.
Why?
Because you never do discuss the issues, you come on to add your deity judgment on other people along with some sanctimonious advice that no one really wants.
Your last post is proof you seldom discuss issues.
I bet you spend most of your free time in petty gossip and rumor mongering.
BlueJay, I didn’t see your silly little challenge last night. But since you brought it up, and lest you portray silence as something it isn’t, I don’t “own” what anyone else says.
But vs you, Franklin cleans your clock.
P-mom:
There is a point where the advocates start to believe their own propoganda. You’re there.
Step back, take a deep breath. Recognize how insulting all that you just wrote is to those who were actually THERE.
And relax. Those who disagree with you are not the enemy. They just disagree with you. The sky is not falling.
You can’t even freaking answer the questions. GMC, how is what I typed insulting in any way shape or form to those who were there?
You mean the supporters of Nazi germany? Is that who is insulted? How would the Jewish people be insulted? Many Jewish people today are POINTING OUT the similarities as well.
THEY know how it started out and crept through the nation. THEY are always on the lookout for where it might be creeping in again. It is absurd that you are trying to say that I am insulting them when it is YOU that is insulting them.
And yes, there are some Jewish people today who have become the equivalent of what the Nazis were…or who support the equivalent, but thankfully they are few and far between.
Auntie,
“Libs were sympathetic to Hitler and the “Moose” in the USA pre-war. During and after… ”
You mean libs like the Morgans, DuPonts, Henery Ford, George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush who attempted a fascist coup in 1934, and who supported Hitler openly well into WWII and probably long after? Some libs!