A piece in the New Republic contrasting potential Barack Obama running mates Kathleen Sebelius and Tim Kaine, both Catholics, finds a “dangerous” problem with Sebelius and her efforts to separate her job and her faith. “Every candidate has baggage, but if part of the reason to put Sebelius on the ticket is to reach out to Catholics, Obama should recall that John Kerry — who also struggled rhetorically tying his religion to a progressive agenda — lost the Catholic vote partly as a result of his fight with the conservative hierarchs four years ago.”
For its part, the national Catholic advocacy group Fidelis doesn’t see much difference between Kaine and Sebelius. “The choice of a pro-abortion Catholic for vice president would deal a major blow to any efforts by the Obama campaign to reach out to Catholic voters,” said Brian Burch, president of Fidelis.
35 Comments
It’s no surprise a reich-wing religious hate group would be opposed to Sebelius. Maybe next we could get Fred Phelp’s opinion on gay marriage and be surprised at his response.
Perhaps Osama Obama can join both Governors in the confessional booth. The old gray mare could provide the offering money for the holy water needed to cleanse their collective sins.
anybody who is willing to speak openly and honestly knows why Hillary, Kathleen Sebelius, even Geraldine Ferraro stood no chance in the Prez/Veep race.
HEHEHE
Why should her faith be a problem for Obama? It’ never caused her much concern.
Faith?
Wake me up when the damned dark ages are over.
All the Republicans have are negatives. At every level they’ve gone to their OLD standby of criticize, grumble, gripe and complain. They have NOTHING else.
I was visiting with a group that included my children, my grandchildren (two of my grandsons vote for the first time this fall!) and their friends. Without an exception these younger voters expressed their distaste for the negative that has defined politics as usual. And without an exception they expressed respect for those who have remained above the fray.
McCain doesn’t merit any respect with these younger people who see the problems politics as usual have delivered. I know many say you can’t count on these younger people actually going to the polls. The ones I know can be counted on! And McCain doesn’t stand a chance!
Her only faith: keeping Tiller happy will keep the $$$ flowing into her publicity stunt fund. Does anyone seriously think that Obama will try to run her as his house Catholic
Why is it hard to realize Kathleen is not a good Catholic? She is in a position to make changes but protects Dr. Killer. It is not hate to say these things, those are just the facts. It seems the hate here isn’t from the “right.”
Because you are lying JJJ. that is hateful.
Because you toe a harder line than half the Catholics does not make them less Catholic. It isn’t your place to dictate other’s beliefs.
I hope you’re teaching in a private school and not a public one.
You can try to change the rules all you want but if you are pro-abort you are not a catholic.
You can call yourself what you want. The catholic church is very clear on this position.
If you do not want to support and believe in the faith you have the right to chose one that better fits your beliefs. You are not being forced to be a catholic if you do not want to believe.
“sunflower5″ says –
“…If you do not want to support and believe in the faith you have the right to chose one that better fits your beliefs. You are not being forced to be a catholic if you do not want to believe.”
See? And here’s where I don’t get any of the extremists — left or right — who contribute to this forum.
If they don’t agree with everything you believe in, they believe in nothing?
What a shallow stream of thought you live in.
Obama is far too smart to pick Kathleen Sebelious.
Obama has enough trouble, of his own.
Obama does not need to put the abortion issue front and center, in his campaign, and it will be if he picks our goofy Gov.
political mama if you are not Catholic then you have no idea what you are talking about, if you are Catholic, go to confession
I took a public schools money but send my kids to a private school. I can’t wait to vote on the upcoming tax increase. Public funding of schools is something I have a personal knowledge about.
well that’s good JJJ, because your post made absolutely no sense.
There are about equal numbers of pro-CHOICE Catholics as anti-Choice Catholics. Personally I’d be fine with all those who are pro-Choice to leave their church, but they happen to feel that they can promote rights and humanity better from within their own Church.
You cannot deny the devastation of illegal abortions. Two highly Catholic nations recently voted to legalize abortion. They could not ignore the truth of what was happening to their citizens…also Catholic.
There is a SOLID majority of general election voters who are against tax-payer financed abortions.
There is a good majority of general election voters who are in favor of “parental notice” or “parental consent” laws, before a minor can have an abortion.
There is a solid majority of general election voters who are against a minor crossing state lines, to obtain an abortion, with out the knowledge of that minor’s parents.
There is a slim, but consistent majority in favor of outlawing ALL abortions, except in the cases of rape, incest or actual risk to the life of the mother.
There is a VERY solid majority against late term abortions except in the very rare exceptions, noted above.
People might say they are “pro-choice” in polite conversation, especially since the choicers tend be so rabid.
However, the general public, like Catholics as a group, would favor huge restrictions on the practice of abortion.
Pro-choicers like to speak in broad generalities.
Everyone who really understands the politics of the abortion issue understands that, on actual legislation, the pro-life side has the popular advantage.
More over, besides the popular will, there is something called “voter intensity” at work here.
There are only a small number of people who vote “single issue” based on abortion alone.
Of that group, the prolife side has from a 4% to a 7% advantage, in nearly every area of the country.
Simply put, most who label themselves “prochoice” are not really very radical, on the issue, and they will accept the need for regulation.
Simply put, most people who label themselves, “prochoice” are not nearly as motivated by that issue as the prolife forces.
The above was posted for a good reason:
ProChoicers think they know what it means to be “Catholic” —
Why can’t we tell them what it means to be “pro-choice”?
You know, I am reminded of Biblical illustrations of how the forces of evil (no, the KC Star, Wichita Eagle, Democrats, and Kansas Traditional Republican Majority are not identified in Scripture) attempt to maneuver the righteous into committing evil, and if that fails, to force them to stop doing what is right, at least.
Well, we know what happened in our favorite stories. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, kneeling to none but their Father in Heaven, shook hands with the Messiah in the furnace, and came out without even smoke on their clothes to get a promotion, after those throwing them into the furnace were burned to death. Daniel used a lion for a pillow, and the political leaders accusing him of keeping to his prayer schedule, and their children and their wives, were fed to the lions.
(Daniel 3:17-30; 6:7-24)
. . .
We again see Republicans, having been maneuvered in the past into the evil of taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood in the era of unrestricted abortion, which is coming to an end, being threatened with destruction, or the destruction of their pro-life base, if they don’t stop attacking the blatantly criminal abortion industry.
Well, bring on the lions and the furnace, folks, because they will prove to be the final end of the pro-abortion forces of evil.
If not – be it known that pro-lifers will not worship at the abortion industry’s golden PAC idol – ever.
Why reproductive freedom is important.
Here’s a story of an 11 year old discussing her abortion.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1034497/The-11-year-old-Romanian-schoolgirl-raped-uncle-tells-moving-story-abortion.html
She was raped at the age of 10 by her uncle and, as a result got pregnant. Now folks like Parkay would say she is a slut and the abortion was out of convenience and she should have thought about the pregnancy before she had sex. If you take the biblical punishment for rape the 10 year old would have to marry her uncle (after he pays the family a few shekels for her), or she could be executed for her crime.
So should we listen to reich wing nuts like Parkay and this fringe Catholic group about Sebelius’ position on reproductive freedom? We should listen to the views of the insane who would prefer to go back to the days where men investigated women for witchcraft by sticking their fingers up her vagina, then do the opposite.
Kooky Sect demands return of magic biscut.
http://oddculture.com/2008/07/10/ucf-student-took-eucharist-hostage/
Moneyhawk apparently you did not understand what was being said.
People are not forced to be part of any one religion. Therefore they can belong to a religion that is more to their belief.
The same is true for an athiest’s choice not to believe.
Why associate with an organization when you cannot support the core of their beliefs?
That is not being shallow.
The 11-year-old rape victim, even though an innocent victim, will suffer far worse permanent consequences from the contract killing of her viable baby, that from the rape.
Execute rapists, not their babies.
Paul, that’s the most honest post I think I”ve ever heard from you. Yes I admit that I’m in the extreme, I’m the polar opposite of Parkay. ONLY because I know what Parkay’s game plan really is.
Like he just posted above.
And I do legitimately believe that these restrictions only hurt women in the long run…not only do they get tighter and tighter, but they really interfere with a woman’s life or death decision.
If Parkay doesn’t think that carrying a child for 9 months then going through birth at 11 isn’t traumatic, he’s a complete idiot.
Silly Franklin, I stand side-by-side with Catholic sisters in my fight for women’s rights against you. Note in that story how the good Catholics were trying to demonize the girl for getting an abortion. How awful of your people to do that to her. Leave her alone.
And Parkay, if that doesn’t sound like an opium trip, I don’t know what does.
I think these silly quibbles are going to grow less and less relevant in the future.
Just in my lifetime, we have seen a move away from hard faith.
We’ve properly gotten faith out of the schools and are vigilantly keeping it out without persecution or heavy handedness. Faith based intolerance and hate is still prevalent but is becoming less fashionable.
My son is a second generation non believer.
I think the next 50 years or so will see us move further away from such silliness. Then maybe we will start looking around for solutions instead of looking up.
I am willing to allow exceptions for “rape, incest and the life of the mother” —
However, I also agree that we might not really know what is best for the rape or incest victim.
These exceptions would be necessary, politically, if we ever get to that point.
Many prolifers would consider me a “compromiser” or a “sell out” for even suggesting exceptions.
I am a National Right to Life prolifer, not an Americal Life League or Operation Rescue prolifer.
Locally, National Right to Life is affiliated with Kansans for Life.
Anyway, harsh treatment of those women who obtain abortions, for any reason, has never been the goal of National Right to Life.
Doctors should be punished, Licenses should be at risk.
Nobody at NRTL has ever suggested that we put mothers in jail for having abortions.
The link about the 11 year old was a sad story. Let us please concentrate on the United States, however.
In many countries, abortions are FORCED by the government.
In this country, parents can still, often, force a minor to have an abortion, against her will.
Hard cases make bad law.
I believe that America can be trusted to regulate the abortion industry, without much help from the courts.
That day will come.
By the way, many, many of the prolife leaders that I have met, have had abortions themselves.
The idea that any of the leading prolife groups are angry or judgemental or hateful is a myth.
Catholics can be an odd lot. I would suppose that the majority of people in the story above were pro life but found it perfectly acceptable to threaten a guy with death for not eating a cracker.
As for the 11year pregnant girl, people like parkay are all for forcing her to have a baby yet somehow vanish when she would need food a place to live, or health care, or daycare so she doesn’t have to drop out of school,
“The 11-year-old rape victim, even though an innocent victim, will suffer far worse permanent consequences from the contract killing of her viable baby, that from the rape.
Execute rapists, not their babies.”
I suppose we should say Dr. Parkay thanks to his diagnosis on the health of the fetus and the future psychological consequences of the girl’s abortion. You see in fundyland there’s no need to actually see the patients, just use your magic fundypowers and convey with the spirits to predict the future.
But we can see the effects of Parkay’s system in Romania. No sex education so the girl didn’t even know what sex was and had no idea about pregnancy. Even though the child is a minor and the victim of rape abortion is illegal in Romania. Anti-choicers showed they could care less about the girl’s psychological and physiological health and wanted to force this pregnancy upon her, just like the rapist did. In the world of the anti-choicers rape is a legitimate method of reproduction and the rapist is rewarded with passing on his genes to the next generation (the victim must be punished by having to raise the child that was forced upon her.
The family had to raise funds and flee to England for the abortion. Had they had it in Romania the doctor performing it could be executed, and who knows the punishment the girl would have received at the hands of the State.
The fears of the family are mentioned in the last two paragraphs.
“After that, who knows? The family fears Florina will be perceived as ‘tainted’. They are considering moving away, perhaps even to Britain, if Florina’s father is able to find work here, so that the little girl can be given a fresh start.
Her mother’s objective is simple. She will do everything in her power to ensure that the brutal event that destroyed her daughter’s childhood will not blight the rest of her life.”
Yes, as long as they can leave the anti-choice community the girl can lead a normal life. If Parkay had his way this girl would be tormented for life or executed for murder.
“Catholics can be an odd lot. I would suppose that the majority of people in the story above were pro life but found it perfectly acceptable to threaten a guy with death for not eating a cracker.”
I wonder how many of these Catholics mocked Muslims for getting all upset about some cartoons?
Franklin, if abortion truly is murder then legally why shouldn’t the mother go to prison for murder? she would be as guilty as the Doctor. and murder for hire is also grounds for the Death penalty in Kansas
Tom,
Don’t give them any ideas.
Being Catholic means that you adhere to a Catholic set of beliefs. Those are most coherently defined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). With regard to abortion, article 2271 of the CCC states, “Since the first century, the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. The teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.” If Governor Sebelius chooses to publicly support abortion, then she must expect opposition from the Catholic Church itself (as has already happened).
Tom
We do have degrees of murder.
Politics will play a role.
There is no way that we can make the law perfect.
“The Law is an Ass” it has been said.
However, it is not the intent of the largest prolife group in America, NRLC, to put mothers in jail.
Public opinion is important.
A law that can not be enforced makes a mockery of the law.
The people will support fines and discipline against doctors who break the law.
And women who will not be FORCED to gestate will still find a way not to.
parkay
Posted August 3, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink
The 11-year-old rape victim, even though an innocent victim, will suffer far worse permanent consequences from the contract killing of her viable baby, that from the rape.
Execute rapists, not their babies.
Parkay, How could you possibly know that the rapes won’t have profound and permanent effects on this young girl? While I agree with your statement about rapists, you have no idea of the psychological damage rape does.
what do u make of this stuff?