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Once again, your dose of the undeniable fact of evolution.
Human Evolution: Tale of the Y
Sharon Begley
Nothing against fossils, but when it comes to tracing the story of human evolution they’re taking a back seat lately to everything from DNA to lice, and even the DNA of lice. A few years ago scientists compared the DNA of body lice (which are misnamed: they live in clothing, not the human body) to that of head lice, from which they evolved, and concluded that the younger lineage split off from the older no more than 114,000 years ago, as I described in a cover story last year. Since body lice probably arose when a new habitat did, and since that habitat was clothing, that’s when our ancestors first needed a haberdasher. The Y chromosome has been an even greater source of clues to human evolution, showing among other things that the most recent common ancestor of all men alive today lived 89,000 years ago in Africa, and that the first modern humans walked out of Africa about 66,000 years ago and became the ancestors of everyone outside that natal continent.
The Y chromosome is at it again. Scientists reported this week that an analysis of Y chromosomes in a dozen African populations sheds light on one of the more controversial questions in human prehistory: did innovations such as animal herding spread because their inventors did, migrating to new places and teaching the natives new tricks, or because the idea spread on its own, as neighboring tribes noticed the new trick and adopted it, and then neighbors of those guys did the same, on and on until the idea had spread like wildlfire?
More at:
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/labnotes/archive/2008/08/08/human-evolution-tale-of-the-y.aspx
Well, it’s the NBC round-the-clock weekend of baseball at Lawrence-Dumont Stadium. Chance to see the World Series of that level of baseball during some 56 hours of baseball games.
Some thunder showers predicted according to the 6 AM weather report.
School resumes this week so summer is waning. The moon is waxing towards a full moon next weekend.
Yes plastic is a product of oil. All those bottles of water with basically tap water in them. Buy a stainless steel bottle… it will last forever and pay for itself quickly.
You will probably be surprised to know that a plastic bottle is made from the same petrochemical as the fiber we call polyester!
All plastic products, many of the materials used to make the clothes you wear, or the carpet you walk on, plus hundreds of the other products we take for granted, are made from petrochemicals. As the name implies, a main ingredient in petrochemicals is oil.
http://www.priweb.org/ed/pgws/uses/uses_…
We produce and use 20 times more plastic today than we did 50 years ago!
http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/…
Toxic garden chemical are oil products. Many toxic home cleaning agents are oil products.
That figures, I was just thinking of jumping on the motor cycle and going to the store the cats are out of food. But now I hear the thunder getting louder.
Ih well them cats are fat enough! Happy rainy sat’s to all.
Flip Flopping Their Way through Politics
or…
How Democrats were ‘fer’ John McCain afterwards (the campaign started) they were ‘agin’ him.
Watch the before and after videos of the flip flopping Dems
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/aug/07/wow-i-hadnt-realized-that-it-stung-the-dem/
This reinforces the message to American voters that Democratic politicians are in the habit of changing their message a lot.
“We produce and use 20 times more plastic today than we did 50 years ago!”
And almost every bit of plastic we’ve ever made is still with us. It’s bad enough that it’s starting to literally clog the oceans. Plastic isn’t biodegradable, but it is photo degradable. It breaks down to smaller and smaller pieces and enters the food chain. Sea life mistake it for plankton and eat it.
I guess it doesn’t really matter. Mankind has used the oceans as a toilet since forever. It’ll catch up with us someday.
here’s one for you, beber.
http://nobrains.nolife.noballs.com
I do not get involved in the endless global warming argument (what passes as debate on this forum). But this deserves reading. A highlight or two:
When does dissent become Untruth and lose the rights and respect due to “legitimate dissent”? Who decides—and how—what dissent deserves to be heard and what doesn’t? When do journalists have to “protect” readers from Untruth masking itself as dissent or skepticism
. . .
She seems to be confusing consensus among scientists and scientific truth. They are two different things. The history of science repeatedly shows a “consensus” being overturned by an unexpected truth that dissents from the consensus. Scientific truth has continued to evolve, often in unexpected ways, and scientific consensus always remains “falsifiable,” to use Karl Popper’s phrase, one any science reporter should be familiar with. All the more reason for reporting on scientific dissent, one would think. Yet when I read her description of how science proceeds, it seems to me she is suggesting science proceeds by a vote: Whoever who has the greatest number of consistent papers—papers that agree with him or her—”wins.” As in, has the Truth.
In fact, the history of science frequently demonstrates that science proceeds when contradictory—dissenting—studies provoke more studies, encourage rethinking rather than being marginalized by “the consensus” or the “consistency” of previous reports.
If it hadn’t been for the lone dissenting voice of that crazy guy in the Swiss patent office with his papers on “relativity,” we still might believe the “consensus” that Newtonian mechanics explained a deterministic universe. And what about Ignaz Semmelweis and his lone crusade against the “consensus” that doctors need not wash their hands before going from an infected to an uninfected patient? Or the nutty counterintuitive dissenting idea of vaccination? The consensus was wrong. In fact, science proceeds by overturning consensus.
[Note: That's awfully difficult when "concensus" is supported by the research grant dollars and dissidents are given the same treatment as those who deny the Holocaust - which cheapens the memory of the Holocaust, BTW]
http://www.slate.com/id/2197130/
Read. Think. Discuss.
From the Telepraph (UK) –
Bad news from the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline – an installation that may not normally draw much of your attention, but which is a throbbing artery of global energy supply, carrying vital oil supplies from Central Asia towards a tanker terminal on the Turkish coast. On some remote, sun-baked plain of Anatolia, an explosion sparked a fire earlier this week, temporarily cutting the flow through the pipeline.
But guess what? Here’s the good news: the oil price did not zoom upwards in response, not a blip, barely a flicker. Actually the price of a barrel of crude has been falling: from a peak of $145 in early July, it came down to $117 and was trading yesterday at $120. That’s almost a 20 per cent drop in little more than three weeks.
As I have noted in this forum many times, the price of oil has had nothing to do with the “law” of Supply and Demand.
America has done nothing to increase off-shore drilling. America has done nothing to promote conservation. But the price of oil has gone down 20% in a couple of weeks.
Unlike a year ago, $3.69-a-gallon gasoline seems like a “bargain.”
“Mission Accomplished.”
An Antichrist Obama in McCain Ad?
The ad was the creation of Fred Davis, one of McCain’s top media gurus as well as a close friend of former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed and the nephew of conservative Oklahoma Senator James Inhofe. It first caught the attention of Democrats familiar with the Left Behind series, a fictionalized account of the end-time that debuted in the 1990s and has sold nearly 70 million books worldwide. “The language in there is so similar to the language in the Left Behind books,” says Tony Campolo, a leading progressive Evangelical speaker and author.
As the ad begins, the words “It should be known that in 2008 the world shall be blessed. They will call him The One” flash across the screen. The Antichrist of the Left Behind books is a charismatic young political leader named Nicolae Carpathia who founds the One World religion (slogan: “We Are God”) and promises to heal the world after a time of deep division. One of several Obama clips in the ad features the Senator saying, “A nation healed, a world repaired. We are the ones that we’ve been waiting for.”
The visual images in the ad, which Davis says has been viewed even more than McCain’s “Celeb” ad linking Obama to the likes of Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, also seem to evoke the cover art of several Left Behind books. But they’re not the cartoonish images of clouds parting and shining light upon Obama that might be expected in an ad spoofing him as a messiah. Instead, the screen displays a sinister orange light surrounded by darkness and later the faint image of a staircase leading up to heaven.
Perhaps the most puzzling scene in the ad is an altered segment from The 10 Commandments that appears near the end. A Moses-playing Charlton Heston parts the animated waters of the Red Sea, out of which rises the quasi-presidential seal the Obama campaign used for a brief time earlier this summer before being mocked into retiring it. The seal, which features an eagle with wings spread, is not recognizable like the campaign’s red-white-and-blue “O” logo. That confused Democratic consultant Eric Sapp until he went to his Bible and remembered that in the apocalyptic Book of Daniel, the Antichrist is described as rising from the sea as a creature with wings like an eagle.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830590,00.html
GMC, a couple points:
(1) Albert Einstein’s seminal paper, “On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies” was published in a seminal physics journal. He may have come from left field, but he wasn’t some outsider crank, attacking the scientific establishment itself (unlike the global-warming denier folks).
(2) I think the article linked-to below elucidates nicely the difference between scientifid dissent and the psuedo-scientific wankery we see here. A portion of it:
Critical feedback is the lifeblood of healthy science, as is the willingness (however begrudgingly) to say “I was wrong” when faced with persuasive evidence. It does not matter who you are or how important you think your idea is — if it is contradicted by the evidence, it is wrong. In contrast, pseudoscientists typically eschew the peer-review process in order to avoid the inevitable critical commentary. Consider Immanuel Velikovsky’s controversial theory about planetary collisions, first proffered in 1950. Velikovsky was not a scientist, and he rejected the peer-review process after submitting a paper to the prestigious journal Science: “My [paper] was returned for rewriting after one or two reviewers took issue with my statement that the lower atmosphere of Venus is oxidizing. I had an easy answer to make …
but I grew tired of the prospect of negotiating and rewriting.”
Nearly a quarter of a century later, after a special session devoted to his theory was organized by Carl Sagan at the 1974 AAAS meeting, Velikovsky boasted, despite all the errors and mistakes that experts had identified in his book, that “my Worlds in Collision as well as Earth in Upheaval do not require any revisions, whereas all books on terrestrial and celestial science of 1950 need complete rewriting … and nobody can change a single sentence in my books.” Unwillingness to submit to peer review and inability to admit error are the antitheses of good science.
A splendid example of honorable science can be found in the May 11 issue of Science, in a report on the “African Origin of Modern Humans in East Asia.” A team of geneticists took samples from 12,127 men from 163 Asian and Oceanic populations, tracking three genetic markers on the Y chromosome. They discovered that every one of their subjects carried a mutation at one of those three sites that can be traced back to a single African population some 35,000 to 89,000 years ago. Their paper marks a major victory for the “Out of Africa” hypothesis that all modern people can trace their heritage to Africa. It is also a significant blow to the “Multiregional” hypothesis that modern human populations have multiple origins dating back many hundreds of thousands of years.
One of the chief defenders of Multiregionalism, anthropologist Vincent M. Sarich of the University of California at Berkeley, is well known for his vigorous and energetic defense of his beliefs and theories. (I know Vince and can attest that he is a tenacious fighter.) Yet when this self-proclaimed “dedicated Multiregionalist” saw the new data, he confessed in Science: “I have undergone a conversion — a sort of epiphany. There are no old Y chromosome lineages [in living humans]. There are no old mtDNA lineages. Period. It was a total replacement.” In other words, in a statement that takes great intellectual courage to make, Sarich said that he was wrong. Whether he is right to have converted remains to be seen, as additional studies confirm or belie the findings.
The point is that creationists and social critics who decry science as dogmatic obedience to authority and an old-boys network of closed-minded fogies are simply mistaken. Science is in constant flux, theories are batted about by the ever shifting winds of evidence, and scientists really do change their minds.
Of course, I could be wrong
http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/10/i-was-wrong/
P.S. BTW, only in a handful of circumstances does Newtonian mechanics produce a wrong answer. Einstein didn’t refute Newton’s work–he refined it.
“Rage” notes –
“…only in a handful of circumstances does Newtonian mechanics produce a wrong answer. Einstein didn’t refute Newton’s work–he refined it.”
Yeah, but how I learned it, Newton disregarded a basic truth.
“A body at rest tends to stay at rest” is pure Newtonian “law,” but ignores that on a spinning planet, always orbiting the sun, in an ever-expanding universe, there is no such thing as “a body at rest.” We’re all moving. All the time.
If you hit a golf ball, you’re moving a “body at rest” on purely experiential levels. But in the ever-spinning, ever-orbiting, ever-expanding universe, Newton’s observations don’t get the picture.
As with the Republic Party congressman who tried to abolish the Patent Office in the 1890s because “everything that can be invented has been invented, CONservatives of subsequent generations have attempted to stop science under the assumption there’s nothing new to be learned from the universe.
There’s a tendency among humans to just give up asking questions and assume we know everything there is to know. “God said it. I believe it. That settles it” and all that.
It echoes the fable about “The Tree of Knowledge” and “Original Sin” and systematically attempts to stifle advancement of human understanding.
If you think you have all the answers, it’s time to ask more questions.
Actually, both Newton and Einstein are wrong under certain circumstances regarding motion and gravity.
When a constant resonance is invoked and the motion is restricted by gravity (orbiting) then Newton’s laws don’t apply. Einstein fails gravity theory perihelion effects around singularities where gravity is bent along with light waves.
This was found in the basic UFO operator handbook. :D
Another thing that should have made oil go up rather than down, as it would have a few weeks ago is:
“Georgia has no significant oil or gas reserves of its own but it is a key transit point for oil from the Caspian and central Asia destined for Europe and the US.
Crucially, it is the only practical route from this increasingly important producer region that avoids both Russia and Iran.
The 1,770km (1,100 miles) Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which entered service only last year, pumps up to 1 million barrels of oil per day from Baku in Azerbaijan to Yumurtalik, Turkey, where it is loaded on to supertankers for delivery to Europe and the US. Around 249km of the route passes through Georgia, with parts running only 55km from South Ossetia.
The Russian invasion was disregarded.
“A body at rest tends to stay at rest” is pure Newtonian “law,” but ignores that on a spinning planet, always orbiting the sun, in an ever-expanding universe, there is no such thing as “a body at rest.” We’re all moving. All the time.
If you hit a golf ball, you’re moving a “body at rest” on purely experiential levels. But in the ever-spinning, ever-orbiting, ever-expanding universe, Newton’s observations don’t get the picture.
This is not a physics forum, and I am not a physicist, but sorry, MH: that’s just silly, and wrong, and it throuroughly misrepresents and cheapens the breadth of Newton’s intellect.
Newton was quite aware that objects “at rest” in a local frame of reference would be in motion from another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_frame_of_reference#Newton.27s_inertial_frame_of_reference
This is where Newton went wrong:
Isaac Newton founded classical mechanics on the view that space is something distinct from body and that time is something that passes uniformly without regard to whatever happens in the world. For this reason he spoke of absolute space and absolute time, so as to distinguish these entities from the various ways by which we measure them (which he called relative spaces and relative times).
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/newton-stm/
Einstein’s conception of spacetime superseded Newton’s ideas of absolute space and time.
Science is in constant flux, theories are batted about by the ever shifting winds of evidence, and scientists really do change their minds.
Yup. It should be that way. Unfortunately, all too often, science is driven by grant dollars dedicated to proving a particular point, acclaim from those supposedly disinterested “peers,” and political/social considerations. The idea that scientists are somehow unlike other men, driven only by the search for truth and able to put aside petty human concerns is pure bullsh**. They are human beings, as driven by their own egos and personal interests as the rest of us. And, often, they understand where their bread is buttered.
Question for the legal beagles, (GMC, Vaughn, others),
Heller. It’s interesting to me the ongoing process of Incorporation of Heller, which freedom loving Americans are trying to do right now. (Chicago, San Francisco) Surely this is a key moment in the history of Constitutional Law.
How long’s this process gonna take, and is there and chance the 2nd Amendment will not be incorporated as 8 of the other Amendments in the Bill of Rights have been?
Oh, one other 2nd Amendment related question.
What happens when Government ignores, and even overtly breaks the law as ruled by the Supreme Court of the US?
Washington, DC, of course, is the example in mind, as DC is ignoring Heller AND overtly violating Heller.
When Government openly breaks the lawful laws of Government, do we have Anarchy or at least the beginning of Anarchy?
Yup. It should be that way. Unfortunately, all too often, science is driven by grant dollars dedicated to proving a particular point, acclaim from those supposedly disinterested “peers,” and political/social considerations. The idea that scientists are somehow unlike other men, driven only by the search for truth and able to put aside petty human concerns is pure bullsh**. They are human beings, as driven by their own egos and personal interests as the rest of us. And, often, they understand where their bread is buttered.
Well, duh. This just in: the Sun rises in the East! And by the way, Popper and Kuhn are well known to anyone vaguely familiar science (amazing that that idiot at Slate thinks they’re saying anything particularly insightful).
Are you really so clueless about science as to believe that qualifies or refutes anything I’ve posted? Do really think anyone believes–or has even hinted at–such a saintly, ridiculous straw-man conception of scientists?
OF course scientists are human beings, and subject to same emotions, pressures, irrationalities and less-than-pure motivations. Once again: Duh!.
News flash: science, like any profession, has standards. The debate between scientists inevitably employs those standards. Any scientist who’s shilling for a particular cause, in contravention of the existing literature, let along the sceintific method, will immediately find themselves beset by other scientists, pointing out the errors. And not necessarily because of any noble search for the truth, but because they want the money and prestige for themselves!
The literature itself is not the work of any particular group of scientists, or indeed any particular school of thought, but rather a messy mosaic of ideas wherein the tiniest details are subject to heated debate.
The fact that you take that moron at Slate seriously shows how little you know about how science really works.
A “scientist” who is an unrepentant shill (say, a tobacco-company scientist paid to downplay the dangers of smoking) will not have much prestige within the scientific community. Government grants may affect conclusions, as will other pressures, but any scientist who dares to publish ill-supported crap had better be prepared for the slinga and arrows of other scientists, within the most exacting standards of the community–no matter what their position.
In the case of AGW deniers, they aren’t publishing papers, they aren’t getting into the deep science, they aren’t even engaging the real debates among real scientists. They’re arguing at the margins, poking holes in various assumptions, without bothering to attempt publication of their supposedly revolutionary insights in the relevant journals.
They’re cranks.
But suppose they’re right? Well, we can do that. But take the example of Barry Marshall, the scientist who co-discovered the role of H. Pylori in ulcers. By his own account, he faced great skepticism at his hypothesis. Did he accuse the scientific community of being a uniform cabal, firmly under the boot of physicians and big pharma? Nope.
Instead, he took the extraordinary step of ingesting H. Pylori himself. He got sick, though, at his wife’s insistence, he followed up with antibiotics, thus destroying the direct evidence of H. Pylori’s effect.
This was enough to stir interest, though. He eventually won the Nobel prize, and H.Pylori is an active area of research now, in its own right!
And by the way: remember all those scientists complaining about the censorship of science under Bush? Hell-o: Who is paying them?
No, it’s not because they are so incredibly noble that they refuse to be shills for the administration that’s paying their salaries. They just refuse to be the laughingstocks of their profession.
Credibility matters.
And one last comment on Heller, will the court ultimately rule that a .22 semi-auto is a gun which can be reasonably restricted out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, simply because it is a “semi-auto”?
The semi-auto is one of the most commonly held and commonly uses guns of choice in America. (Handguns, rifles, and shotguns, all in semi-auto!)
“It should be known that in 2008 the world shall be blessed. They will call him The One”
Obama is Neo?
“Yup. It should be that way. Unfortunately, all too often, science is driven by grant dollars dedicated to proving a particular point, acclaim from those supposedly disinterested ‘peers’, and political/social considerations. The idea that scientists are somehow unlike other men, driven only by the search for truth and able to put aside petty human concerns is pure bullsh**. They are human beings, as driven by their own egos and personal interests as the rest of us. And, often, they understand where their bread is buttered.”
Do you not understand, counselor, that the inherent human flaws in scientists are the reasons for the scientific method, the reason for peer review, and the reason why studies are replicated in the first place? For the global warming “debate”, when one takes the time to look at who the players are and where they come from, several things are clear:
1) People who are doing the climate science that underlies what is increasingly being labeled a consensus do not have one political viewpoint, and despite the more ludicrous claims of some right wing conspiracy theorists, there are not vast sums of money paying for results that are consistent with the hypothesis that human activity contributes to global climate change.
2) Most of the global warming critics, on the other hand, do have clear ties to industries that are best served by the status quo or knee jerk political movements that automatically assume an adversarial relationship with “green” causes (e.g., some coalition conservatives and so-called free market liberatians). This was not always true, scientific skepticism to global climate change was still fairly widespread as recently as 8-10 years ago. Since then, a lot of research has been done with regards to specific scientific objections and concerns. Furthermore, the degree to which human activity will result in long term global climate change is still legitimately debated, from what this outside layman can tell. But, the fact of the matter is, the clear non-scientific motives are consistently found among “denialists” as opposed to the reverse (this refers to the scientific global climate change debate and the attempt of some to bypass scientific sources to criticize climate scientists in the mainstream and internet media, not the confrontations between financially conservative and politically “green” advocates-there is a difference).
Max,
Is the court ruling on semiautomatic weapons?
It seems to me the court sided pretty clearly with gun owners. The ruling included striking down the portion of the law that requires all firearms be kept unloaded or disassembled. They even struck down the requirement on trigger locks.
That appears to me that the court through out any restrictions on gun ownership.
I may be missing a new attack on semi-auto’s. Perhaps from another uninformed person like Bill Clinton. Can’t tell you how many lives his restrictions saved.
Rage
Posted August 9, 2008 at 4:51 pm
In the case of AGW deniers, they aren’t publishing papers, they aren’t getting into the deep science, they aren’t even engaging the real debates among real scientists. They’re arguing at the margins, poking holes in various assumptions, without bothering to attempt publication of their supposedly revolutionary insights in the relevant journals.
Actually, there are world class scientists, including climatologists, who disagree with man-made global warming. Disregarding cosmos’s personal attacks on these scientists, these are credible scientists who have done the research and submitted papers.
In turn, they get their work rebuked, hashed out on blogs instead of the proper scientific forum.
People like cosmos and yourself can yelp all they want with Internet hyperlinks, but real scientists
make scientific statements and let their work stand as it is, without going politically viral on the Internet.
You’ll find their work in Scientific Journals and papers at your public library, universities and institutes of science. You won’t find it on the Internet under “G” for gotcha pseudo science.
You’ll find their work in Scientific Journals and papers at your public library, universities and institutes of science. You won’t find it on the Internet under “G” for gotcha pseudo science.
Produce the abstracts (I won’t be holding my breath).
“In turn, they get their work rebuked, hashed out on blogs instead of the proper scientific forum.” –
Regular.
And this man “regularly” accuses others of wearing tin-foil hats.
“Produce the abstracts (I won’t be holding my breath).”
Seconded. It’s easy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12511952
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18687921?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Eagle editors?
Have I got a thread for you.
Look into the “Spirit One” Christian Center.
They ROUTINELY post politically slanted statements on their street marquee.
I think they have finally crossed the line.
Their current offering is something like:
“Dems won’t vote to allow drilling breaking 2nd commandment Earth worship!”
Now that is posted on the Church sign which is passed by thousands of drivers every day.
If there is a more blatant example of a church violating the terms of their tax exempt status, I haven’t seen it.
If they want to be politically active, that is fine. But let them pay taxes.
Maybe it’s First Amendment rights..
X
X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X
X
X
X
X
X
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Dems SUCK!!!
Do you suppose you might want to advise those thousands of drivers not to look?
Why, I’m sure thousands have had their minds terribly screwed up and horrible thoughts are now processing through their heads!
“And I hollered over t’ Ethel, I said, “Don’t
look, Ethel!” But it’s too late, she’d already been incensed.
..Oh, yes, they call him the Streak”
“I hollered, “Don’t look, Ethel!” But it was too
late. She’d already been mooned. Flashed her right there in front of
the shock absorbers.”
” I hollered up at Ethel, I said, “Don’t look, Ethel!” But it was too late. She’d
already got a free shot. “
“Who’s that with him?
Ethel? Is that you, Ethel?
What do you think you’re doin’?
You git your clothes on!”
Ethel, you shameless hussy! Say it isn’t so,
Look at that, look at that!”
“But let them pay taxes.”
Ain’t gonna happen. All those nice black churches, who you suppose they be supportin’ in da eeelecshun?
Your party is not going to support taxing churches any more so than the republican party.
“posted on the Church sign .”
“Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don’t do that, can’t you read the sign.”
#
BlueJay
Posted August 9, 2008 at 5:49 pm | Permalink
Eagle editors?
Have I got a thread for you.
Look into the “Spirit One” Christian Center.
They ROUTINELY post politically slanted statements on their street marquee.
I think they have finally crossed the line.
Their current offering is something like:
“Dems won’t vote to allow drilling breaking 2nd commandment Earth worship!”
Now that is posted on the Church sign which is passed by thousands of drivers every day.
If there is a more blatant example of a church violating the terms of their tax exempt status, I haven’t seen it.
If they want to be politically active, that is fine. But let them pay taxes.
—————————–
Free speech for me, but not for thee.
eh Junior?
Meltdown over. Olympics break. Carry on.
#
Rage
Posted August 9, 2008 at 5:14 pm | Permalink
You’ll find their work in Scientific Journals and papers at your public library, universities and institutes of science. You won’t find it on the Internet under “G” for gotcha pseudo science.
Produce the abstracts (I won’t be holding my breath).
———————–
Why do want a Reader’s Digest condensed version of a paper?
You should know, but just in case you don’t, the majority of scientific papers are not found on the Internet.
The only thing that the IPCC is relying upon now is plugging their info into inaccurate computer climate models.
The scientists know they CCM’s are inaccurate.
The IPCC know they are inaccurate and state so in their reports.
Yet, the alarmists flail about how with high degree of certainty things are gonna happen.
huh? You know something is inaccurate and there is a high degree of certainty it will happen?
wtf?
What the…over…
What part of tax exempt status do you not get “American way”?
Churches are not taxed.
One of the conditions of that tax exempt status is that they do not engage in political campaigning.
Oh BlueJay oh wizened one! Thou knowest thou is more profoundly brilliant than the average brain.
But sometimes us low life, smaller brain types get it. Now go back and read my
Posted August 9, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Parties don’t figure into it.
The law is the law. It’s simply a matter of making the Internal Revenue Service aware of the offending organization.
Thus my call for a thread and my bringing the info here in the first place.
Jay — Email the Editors and ask for a thread…. weblog@wichitaeagle.com
Oh yes! Let’s attack anyone who bad mouths the spiritually pure democratic party!
Let’s end the First Amendment to protect the glory of the democratic party!
Go fer it!
Like anyone cares? Tax the church! Tax all ten of their members. Get some! Get those RICH members of the store front church! HA-ha HE-he!
Get those rascals!
I don’t like to bother the editors beyond suggestions here Chas.
A few of the cons do too much of that and I think the editors got tired of it.
Jay — The Editors wont read it here…
I suppose you could write to one of the columnists….
pbrownlee@wichitaeagle.com
rscholfield@wichitaeagle.com
BJ, I don’t think you should bother the editors either.
I really think this is a job for Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Perhaps you should contact one of the major television stations in Kansas City. Or perhaps CNN, or CBS.
This is serious business. It could effect the outcome of the vote in not just Kansas, but anyone who drives by from northern Oklahoma as well.
Anyone seeing such a sign, may have their mind affected. Some may even call in brainwashing.
Yes, one or two of the thousands driving by, may be paying attention to the road. But the point is, if even ONE happened to turn their heads and READ the sign – they may vote republican.
These are serious times. I suggest immediate action.
AmWay —- Spirit One is not a storefront Church… and they have a lot more than 10 members…. Where did you get such an idea??
Time for me to go now… I have early eucharist tomorrow….
Have a great weekend!!
Good night; Good luck; God Bless —-
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
Blessings on the Olympics!!
“and they have a lot more than 10 members….”
Of course you are correct as usual Chas.
What was I thinking?
All the more reason BJ should be contacting the authorities. Perhaps even Homeland Security.
But of course, you are already logged off and won’t see my post until tomorrow. (You posted goodnight as usual.)
Maybe BJ will see your concern as well as mine.
And immediately call the CIA.
Some years ago, this church made a great deal of fuss about an adult bookstore nearby.
I don’t frequent adult bookstores.
But just as they are not allowed to have pornography in the windows, so the church should not be allowed to post political views when they are tax exempt.
Golden rule and all ya know.
Federal Burea of Investigation (that’s the FBI folks)
Wichita, Kansas Resident Agency
Address:
Epic Center
301 Main, Suite 450
Wichita, Kansas 67201
Telephone:
(316) 262-0031
Homeland Security:
http://www.wichita.gov/Government/HomelandSecurity/
“Golden rule and all”
Guess I missed that one in public educashun. What exactly does the Golden Rule say about posting signs in windows? Just curious and wanting to learn.
“But just as they are not allowed to have pornography in the windows, so the church should not be allowed to post political views when they are tax exempt.”
Come on BlueJay…wake up.
The Church is not to endorse political candidates outright, but most certainly can endorse and promote Christian, ethical and civic minded principles or platforms, just not the individuals involved.
Boxlock, you know BJ has a legitimate gripe. It requires immediate action by the authorities. He may have to start with a councilman or the Mayor, but he most certainly should NOT leave it at that.
The actions by this church – if allowed to continue, would indicate the entire democratic party is ungodly.
Now, if they just take down the sign, and preach sermons supporting both Obama and McCain, like the black churches are doing, then they would be A.O.K..
But this church, clearly against liberals and their ungodly affections, is way out of line.
They must be stopped.
Call the FBI immediately if you agree.
The people driving by this sign – these people have been incensed!
Call the authorities immediately.
More on Obama:
“Buried in his eloquent, highly praised speech on America’s racial divide, Sen. Barack Obama contradicted more than a year of denials and spin from him and his staff about his knowledge of Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s controversial sermons.
Similarly, Obama also has only recently given a much fuller accounting of his relationship with indicted political fixer Antoin “Tony” Rezko, a longtime friend, who his campaign once described as just one of “thousands of donors.”
Until yesterday, Obama said the only thing controversial he knew about Rev. Wright was his stand on issues relating to Africa, abortion and gay marriage.
“I don’t think my church is actually particularly controversial,” Obama said at a community meeting in Nelsonville, Ohio, earlier this month.
“He has said some things that are considered controversial because he’s considered that part of his social gospel; so he was one of the leaders in calling for divestment from South Africa and some other issues like that,” Obama said on March 2.”
Hey editors?
What did I tell ya?
A thread on this matter is a guaranteed 500 posts.
Hey, the faithful won’t believe me.
But I bring up this matter for the sake of the church too.
They have been skating the edge of violation of their tax exempt status for a LONG time. With this latest, they are close to or over the line.
Like any church, I suppose they do some good work. I don’t want them hindered in that because they stray too much into a realm they are not allowed to play in.
I’m an atheist so maybe I’m the wrong person to ask.
To me? A sign on a church should say “Come in and get cool” or “Come in and get warm” or “Come in if you are hungry.”
Michael Phelps is truly an amazing human. And an American. =)
Or if you are the church of Bill Clinton or John Edwards,
“I won’t come in your mouth.”
“for the sake of the church too….
I’m an atheist”
BJ sometimes you are such an idiot.
Save the world.
Save the blog.
BlueJay,
Your above post simply amazes me.
I have always thought you are an idiot, or at least do a most convincing job of portraying yourself to be one, but you continue to repeatedly take the definition to an entirely new level.
Every time I think your functioning level of ‘gray matter’ has fallen so low that it can’t possibly support your continued breathing you not only continue on but come up with more crap that utterly confounds me.
Congratulations, you win the title of the simplest living organism on the face of the Earth.
I’m reminded of an old phrase:
BJ if your brains were converted to gasoline, there wouldn’t be enough gas to drive an ants go-cart halfway around the inside of a Cheerio.
BlueJay,
Oh….now I feel bad saying those things about you, after all you are another of God’s creation, (I question what God is doing sometimes too, and you make me question the reality of a perfect creator).
I mean…what would this blog be like if we didn’t have ol BJ to kick around, and besides even when our posts are bad, yeah…really bad, BJ always comes through to make us look really good.
I don’t normally banter around with anyone except close friends that I know will understand my friendship for them. BJ, I don’t want to dislike anyone…but wow you make it hard to approach you in any kink of a friendly manner.
I’m not sure what has happened in your life to cause that but I hope you can resolve your bad attitude towards just about everything.
And it is Saturday night during the Olympics.
And I’ve got how many posts now?
I’m telling you editors, make my idea a thread.
Even if the two prior posts are all attack and no substance and the one from “American Way” is recycled from another nic.
Heh I got two more while I was writing.
On the way to work yesterday I saw a cute message on a church sign:
SIGN BROKE
MESSAGE INSIDE
W.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=sg7vwicPx98
I wonder if it sucks as much as I think it must suck to be in Oliver Stone’s telescopic sights…er, film viewer.
Also, I wonder if Obama has in place, come October, some complementary ads in place linking Stone’s film to McCain. Stone did make Natural Born Killers, after all. :D
But. I am so there come just prior to election day. :wink:
The FBI doesn’t investigate these violations. Do contact the americans united for the separation of church and state.
They file with the appropriate authorities.
And do support them, they’re an awesome group.
I do find it sad that the neocons on the board are spitting upon the laws of the US. Would jsut as soon burn that constitution wouldn’t you Amway, Box?
You have to admit BJ, their sign makes them look even more fruity though. Hurts them more than it helps.
Not sure who you were trying to help but thanks either way Hank.
Is it really so hard for some to believe that one could defend both church and state by keeping them separate?
That is what I am TRYING to say political mama.
They are a church. They are SUPPOSED to be trying to save everybody.
The population is split and bitterly so. By getting out of their role and playing at politics they only ADD to that.
What kinds of activities are prohibited generally under section 501(c)(3)? Under the rubric participation in or intervention in any political campaign on behalf of or opposition to any candidate for public office, section 501(c)(3) prohibits a range of activities, generally including: organizational statements, in any medium, of support or opposition for any candidate, political party or political action committee……
http://www.usccb.org/ogc/guidelines.shtml#13
It is important to keep in mind that tax exemptions are a matter of “legislative grace,” which means that no one is necessarily entitled to tax exemptions and that they are not protected by the Constitution. If a government doesn’t want to allow tax exemptions, it doesn’t have to. It is up to taxpayers to establish that they are entitled to get any exemptions which the government allows: if they fail to meet that burden, the exemptions can be denied.
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchestaxexemptions/a/churchpolitics.htm
I wasn’t trying to help anyone, BlueJay. Just sharing a sign.
Because the Spirit One Christian Center didn’t specifically target a candidate or campaign, their sign doesn’t ‘cross any lines’.
You should stick with simple day to day activities, such as controlling your negative attitude long enough to be able to buy a taco at a drive through or maybe buy a fishing license at WalMart.
Waging battle against church signs is a little advanced for someone with your social skills.
And here was I trying to afford one of my worst enemies that he was trying to do good. (HLP)
And here is he proving once again that he and all he believes is easily assailable and barely defensible.
I’ll learn from that.
“Waging battle against church signs is a little advanced for someone with your social skills.”
It is not a social matter. It is a legal matter.
Eagle editors? I think I have demonstrated conclusively that the marquee ads of Spirit One Christian Center merit a thread.
I just got on WE Blog after a day or so on the road.
Come, now:
“Dems won’t vote to allow drilling breaking 2nd commandment Earth worship!”
What the hell kind of goofiness is that sentiment trying to address in the first place?! It’s worthy of “RedWhiteNBlue’s” work.
“Earth worship?!”
Just what constitutes “Earth worship?” Respect for the planet? If you are a “true” christian, you’ll litter and set forest fires just to avoid suspicion you like Mother Nature just a little too much? And even worse, you’re not a true Republic Party partisan unless you show your disdain for the Earth.
Let’s bring back 1969’s Cuyahoga River fire in Cleveland! It’s a Bible Lesson! (”Lake of fire.” “River on fire!” Get it?)
I would expect most thinking Republicans (assuming there are some remaining) would just as soon not be associated with whatever theology prompted such a stupid message. Like the guys on Arlo Guthrie’s “Group W Bench,” they’re slowly moving away.
Hmmm. Group W?
All hail, the Prophet Arlo!
(chortles are in order here)
I’m not your enemy, junior. You are your worst enemy.
I was merely pointing out what a clown you are. It’s not even a legal matter, they ‘crossed no line’.
And for my own legal protection?
I have posted here ONLY what the sign on the church said and ASKED if this it at odds with their tax exempt status.
I have invited debate.
The sign does not invite debate. It assigns judgment.
Just as it is not for the state to dictate to the church so must it be that the church not dictate to the state.
“one of my worst enemies”
Junior, you do take this blogging shit seriously, huh?
Call me some more names Hank.
I invited debate. WHY are you disparaging that?
And yes Hank you are my enemy. You’d like me to think otherwise. You have your money and your power and you’d prefer to keep that unchallenged.
I know better.
I haven’t had many enemies in my life, junior. You should be happy you aren’t one. It’s not my ‘money and power’ that should concern you.
I would be surprised if SOCC gets in any trouble over their sign. They always have something controversial on it. They’ve even weathered an IRS investigation in the past.
Their minister may be a nut, but he’s willing to go to jail for what he believes in.
For what it’s worth, “HLP” –
I have a higher standard for enemies and you don’t make the cut.
You’ve trained your “boy” the way you’ve trained your dogs. With just as much love. And just as much respect for their intellect.
Last night, as I was driving across Kansas, I tuned into one of those Bott stations and listened to that Aussie evangelist who, like you, believes in a young Earth and spins snippets of legitimate science with screwball biblical interpretation and it revealed to me how people who don’t think would think he makes sense.
The root of the word “ignorant” is “ignore.” You have to ignore a lot of stuff to come up with your mindset (as revealed in this forum). I don’t think you’re stupid and I doubt you are evil. And I think “BlueJay” gets overly passionate about injustices he sees and gets overwrought.
I won’t assume to figure out what you were trying to say to “BlueJay” when you posted:
“You should be happy you aren’t [your enemy.]
Sounds like you’re pissing in the corners and staking out some territory.
Sounds like, in your world, all others are dogs.
“And I think “BlueJay” gets overly passionate about injustices he sees and gets overwrought. ”
Well if you think you saw me that way on this occasion Monkeyhawk, you would be mistaken.
I was having fun.
“American way”, now THAT is overwrought.
A few of the other con faithful contributed their comedy stylings.
I suggested a thread that I thought would be lively and then quickly proved my case.
I AM passionate about the separation of church and State. For the greater good of both church and State.
I bring an example of a blur on that line and witness how quickly the faithful go on defense.
“BlueJay” –
I respect and admire your passion.
I used to be you, in many respects.
I’ve aged.
I’ve mellowed.
Maybe I’ve become soft.
Thing is,
I’ve come to realize that good is not the enemy of perfect.
And that the Ship of State takes a while to turn around.
I’d prefer a Bat-Turn. But it’s not gonna happen.
So I cope.
And now for something different –
Russia Attacks Georgia
This might be a bigger deal that most of us think.
A European nation is invading another European nation.
If it matters, the US should be involved.
Except, George WMD Bush has depleted American military effectiveness. We’ve got hundreds of thousands of troops “working” the Surge. More and more Americans are getting killed in Afghanistan. And, with our military clout strained to the limit, Russia starts expanding.
We let it happen, and get Putin (who Shrub claimed was his soul-mate) in the habit to expand his empire.
Or we react.
But how?
All our troops are in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So what’s left?
Missiles?
Nukes? They’ve always been the weapon of last resort. Just how many “resorts” are available?
Are we at the next-to-the-last resort? The third-from-the-last resort? The fifth–?
George WMD Bush’s legacy is that his administration has screwed up foreign policy in every way imaginable.
Ol’ twice-born Shrub figures Jesus is returning soon and if it happens before January 20, 2009. he might get a photo-op with the Big Guy.
(That’s Dumbya’s nickname for Jesus: “Big Guy”)
I think bush is too busy being drunk as hell at the olympics. Did you SEE him at the opening ceremony? What a maroon.
As Tracy used to say, pitiful. Just pitiful.
Oh, and a little linky to “bush’s big olympic frat party”.
And the best part? The cons wont look at it….
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×3769164
Well we wouldn’t want to interrupt his recreation with another disaster in the making!
Looks to me like the President is being Olympic Fan-in-Chief.
One of the perks of the job.
Why should we stop Russia from doing to Georgia what we did to Iraq? I’m sure Russia has it’s trumped up reasons, just like we did.
Mary,
Even if I were to agree with your comparing the action to what America did, which I don’t, it still wouldn’t be a logical statement you just made.