Karl Peterjohn is probably the most informed person in Sedgwick County and perhaps Kansas in regard to county and state finances. He is an information resource for government representatives of both political parties.
Karl also knows that taxes shouldn’t be wasted on unneeded, unwanted, unplanned projects such as the 1/2 billion dollar albatross downtown arena.
In reality, this election was a referendum on the white elephant downtown arena. Huge numbers of voters stood up and said “we told you, we don’t approve of that tremendously wasteful white elephant ice hockey downtown arena.”
It was an interesting win by Petterjohn. I think it tells us more than that he won the nomination. Do you think voters are fed-up? I think they are!
Do you think the school bond issue has a chance? I’m pretty sure they will need to quickly show us why we should trust them, why they can’t find ways to save, why spending additional money will impact our students in a positive way.
I voted for Peterjohn because I’m basically fed up with Winters. He’s promised us a fire station out here for the last 15 years. My property taxes increase every year. My homeowners insurance keeps going up too. 5.5 miles from the fire station south of Andale. With the way the county has built up over the years there’s no excuse for anyone to be greater than five miles from a fire station.
Peterjohn probably won’t get us one either but he might help a little on the damn property taxes.
This year I wasn’t registered as a Republican for the primary. An oversight I actually was disappointed to learn when I showed up at the polls. Could have sworn I made that change, must have just thought about it. Darn, I’m gettin’ old! Anyway, thanks for your vote Hank! It’s how I would have voted if I had done the smart thing in registering. Winters time should have ended!
Congratulations Carl Peterjohn!!!
I had almost completely lost faith in the common sense of the voting public to elect good, honest men and women with conservative fiscal values. Folks that realize the earners themselves can best decide what is best for them in how they spend their money and not some government taxing entity.
As ‘good a guy’ as Dave Unruh might be, I hope he is voted out of office for his support of increased taxes at every decision as not one of the things the taxpayer has funded, that should have been private development, has worked out financially and we are paying millions annually our our own money to fiance others businesses making them millionares on our money.
Another opportunity to get to some of the truth behind this most disastrous and corrupt bushco administration.
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Siddiqui arrest brings attention to the ‘disappeared’ issue in Pakistan
KABUL, AFGHANISTAN — The high-profile arrest of a Pakistani woman suspected of Al Qaeda links casts a spotlight on an issue her nation’s fledgling civilian government has been slow to confront: years of official secrecy surrounding the fate of hundreds of people rounded up as terrorism suspects.
Some human rights activists believe that Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani-born neuroscientist who appeared Tuesday in federal district court in New York, was originally “disappeared” by Pakistani authorities five years ago, possibly at U.S. behest.
Thanks for attempting to explain the paradox of Genesis 2 in which God says “the day you eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, you shall surely die.”
Your answer was long, convoluted, rambling and ultimately unable to explain the paradox.
The most traditional (orthodox) view of Genesis boils the story down to disobedience: Adam disobeyed God. His fall from grace represents the eternal fall from grace of all humankind evermore.
So, one cannot choose to “eat of the fruit of good and evil” today because Adam already made that choice. It’s too late. We are all born into sin.
Our only hope and redemption is to appeal to the Son who was born and lived without sin. The Son of God redeems the inherent sin of the Father of Man.
That’s the traditional Christian view of Adam’s Fall. You can argue with it if you want, but if you do, you are arguing against theological positions that go back through ever major Christian theologian from Paul to Luther to Calvin to Bishop Spong.
Any way, it doesn’t answer the question, “if God doesn’t lie, why did he say the day you eat of the fruit, you shall die and then they didn’t die?
The election produced some interesting results. Just the other day Paul was remarking how the abortion issue is going to hurt pro-choicers. So what did we see?
The more extremist anti-choice candidates lost. Kline lost to an employee he fired (although his former employee is anti-choice). Gietzen lost to a fellow anti who even signed Gietzen’s anti-choice ad. A pro-choice Republicans (Jenkins) defeated anti-choice Republican Ryun.
So it can be said, as it was said for the last election, Kansans don’t like anti-choice extremists. These days if a candidate wants to lose then just emphasize how much of an anti you are. I’m thinking a lot of voters are getting turned off by the single issue candidates ever since Kline focused solely on a single issue much to the detriment of Kansas.
morning, capn. Is today the day you are going to enlighten us with your evidence to prove that all church shooters are CONs, as you so eloquently claimed on the 1st of this month? Or, are you going to be honest and admit you were just mouthing off and claiming things you want to believe?
When the CON said that he wanted to shoot up the church because it was full of liberals and he hates liberals, I believe him.
The burden of proof is on you to show that years of listening to right-wing hate-radio doesn’t have an impact on angry CONs like this Adkisson guy . . .
I love it when these guys get into office (Peterjohn). Now we can see whether they can help govern or simply snipe and obstruct.
I’d guess the turn-out of the more hard-core radical conservatives has placed many of the more extreme Republican candidates on the general election ballot.
And the mass of voters - the regular, normal voters, have pretty much had enough of the extremists.
This may bode well for more progressive and moderate candidates in te general election.
I suppose it was just “coincidence” that the anthrax letters targetted liberals like Leahy and Daschle . . . strongly indicating an another angry CON was behind it.
BTW, ABC News still hasn’t explained its breathless reportage that “highly placed sources” linked Saddam Hussein to the anthrax letters.
I think Americans have a right to know who was lying to the press to whip up war hysteria.
Turns out that Peterjohn writes for the “Heartland Institute,” a think tank that is described according to SourceWatch:
It campaigns against what it refers to as “junk science”; supports “common-sense environmentalism”, such as opposition to the the Kyoto protocol aimed at countering global warming and promoting genetically engineered crops and products; it supports the privatization of public services; it opposes tobacco control measure such as tobacco tax increases and denies the health effects of second-hand smoke; it supports the introduction of school vouchers . . .
*****
It has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding from Big Tobacco and the Charles Koch foundation is listed as a major donor.
the burden of proof is definitely not on me. YOU are the one that stated:
“On the other hand, people that shoot up churches are always CONs, aren’t they?”
You take one incident and expand it to all. That is erroneous application of ‘logic’. It would be similar to me learning of one bank robber driving a Ford, then claiming as fact that all people driving Fords are bank robbers.
Nice try at spin there, capn. You stated it as fact, lets see your proof or for once be honest and admit you were just spouting off.
btw, capn. I don’t remember seeing any evidence that nutjob was even a conservative–do yo uhave inside info on that one as well? Hating liberals is not proof of anything..he could be a communist. A Nazi. A Libertarian. There is no proof of much of anything..except he is a nut job with a gun.
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 9:15 am | Permalink
Raptor–
I believe in evidence, in cause and effect.
When the CON said that he wanted to shoot up the church because it was full of liberals and he hates liberals, I believe him.
The burden of proof is on you to show that years of listening to right-wing hate-radio doesn’t have an impact on angry CONs like this Adkisson guy .
———————-
In other words, the Crapn can make any statement he wants, however outlandish, and others must prove him wrong.
I say the Crapn wears pink panties and loves kissing sheep on the mouth.
Karl Peterjohn lists no donors that I can find on his “Kansas Taxpayer’s Network” . . . why does he feel the need to hide them, one wonders?
I did find this telling diatribe however:
“Bob Corkins is an excellent choice as the next commissioner for education in Kansas. He is one of the top experts on school finance in this state with excellent legislative contacts and he has his own children in public schools. A dirty little secret is that some of the government school officials children are attending or have attended private schools.
“The government school establishment, the left wing Kansas press, the left wing elected officials have all responded with outrage to his appointment. The vile, hateful, and wildly inaccurate statements from tax ‘n spend legislators like Sen. John Vratil, Sen. Tony Hensley, Sen. Jean Schodorf, state school board member Bill Wagnon, and editorials in newspapers like the Wichita Eagle, the Lawrence Journal World, and the rest of the left-wing press in this state demonstrate their commitment to the state school monopoly.”
Reg, you forgot to add that while the Capn’A is wearing the panties and kissing the sheep he is reading Moveon and listening to the song, “When I think about you, I touch myself.”
#
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 8:35 am | Permalink
Hank–
How much has your mill levy gone up?
Most people’s taxes have increased because of increased appraisals.
________________________________________________
It’s gone up several times over the years because of all the new schools in the Goddard scholl district. My appraised value has doubled in the last 20 years.
Raptor shows the state of CON ignorance with this tidbit: “I don’t remember seeing any evidence that nutjob was even a conservative–do yo uhave inside info on that one as well?”
The “inside information” I got was reading the local news articles that revealed the letter he had written in his car stating that he “hated liberals, that liberals were responsible for everything bad in this country” and that investigators found conservative books like Michael Savage’s “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” and several others.
As KSGrm repeatedly points out–if you CONs agree, no evidence is needed– if you disagee, no evidence is enough.
Here is the astounding totality of information The Eagle gave us about this race. Maybe ValuesBoy wrote an especially long column of nothingness and there wasn’t room int he paper for more. Or something equally “important.”
“It was an interesting win by Petterjohn. I think it tells us more than that he won the nomination. Do you think voters are fed-up? I think they are!”
I agree with that Linda. And it was the primary for the deficit loving republicans. He isnt in office yet.
However, the voters are in a decidedly anti incumbent mood. In Saline county, two incumbent county commishes were defeated.
And where is Kelly? I hope he’d preparing his donation to KEC. Jenkins is gonna mop the floor with boyda. All those repukes who couldnt stand ryun are going to get to home in November and vote republican.
I have a question this fine morning; and it has diddley-s–t to do with Peterjohnsons, lib/con contretemps and/or Republican/Democrat debates.
No, no - this is far more important. At least to me.
I have a question for anyone who’s ever taken prescription painkillers to avoid self-immolation: Are generic Vicodin (hydrocodone) and generic Lortab (also named hydrocodone) the exact same medication? I’m getting one answer from the professional pharmacist dudes, and I’m deriving another answer from a 49-year-old songstress (me).
Nearly eight years ago, I was prescribed Vicodin for a severe back injury. I suffered absolutely no side effects: no nasty hangover, no nausea, no upchucking, no dumbing down of any senses that I could discern.
Fast-forward to 2008: I’m taking far less of the medication (Lortab this time, not the big “V”) - and suffering far more side effects. I’m only taking it sporadically; only when my back flares up.
Before any religionists accuse me of rampant hedonism: I’m exuding a great deal of self-discipline and breaking the pills in half and ingesting less than the prescribed dosage.
And I still deal with next-day fallout: lovely things like puking and loss of appetite and a heavy feeling in my chest (no, not the heavy feelings nestled behind my double-d’s, but something more ominous, probably). But I’m still going to work the next day; if I have to hold a plastic refuse bag under my chin, I do so.
Needless to say, this isn’t pleasant. The medical people tell me there’s no perceptible difference between the two meds. I say someone’s lying to me.
I’d say it’s a pretty serious lie. Like the lie my ex once told me - not only about “good girls not gittin’ pregnunt” but about, well…..
Something that a pic of an unclothed Arnold Schwarzenneger put the lie to most powerfully.
I don’t like being lied to - especially when it involves hurling my guts for one and all to see. Conversely, I have very, very happy memories of Vicodin. I have very euphoric memories of feeling like a baby chick wrapped in a blanket of warm milk, floating over the cosmos with nothing but love for everyone in the whole, widest WORLD.
Oh well - the Lortab does its job when the pain gets intense. It makes me feel comfy and sends me off to sleepy-bye suburbia. But I don’t like pukin’. And here I thought only Ann Coulter could induce that kind of horror…………
Oh, and did I mention, the incumbent county commissioner here with the last name of fabrizius, and if you know western kansas, you know what THAT means…
LOST HIS ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
To an upstart woman of a certain age, Kendal Ottley.
Hehehehehehehehhehehehehe!
I’m taking a lot of personal satisfaction in this because he is the LAST of the mofo’s who destroyed my board and took my job to be voted OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heheheheh. HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEEEEEEEEEE!
Rot in hell you bassturd. I hear he has cancer, and yes, I know this makes me look bad, but I wish him a long, slow and painful death.
I’m no pharmacist, but my thoughts: as to the active ingredient, hydrocodone, the two are the same. The difference between the two likely is the “filler” if I may, the coating on the tabs, etc. It may well be that with the passage of time, that once which gave you no side effects now does, due to changes in body chemistry. That’s the best I can do, offering little meaningful, but offering my empathy for your current situation with the meds.
So… in Trego county anyway, the incumbent ass kicking continues.
hee hee hee hee heeeeeeee….
Ding dong the bassturds are gone. The LAST of the anti-woman, anti-gay bigots who were willing to sacrifice the county’s economy to make a point, are GONE!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now maybe this county and community can get back on the right track.
Actually, even though she’s a conservative repub, Kendal and I have been friends for a very long time as we worked on political issues together more than twenty years ago.
She’s very smart, very level headed, cool as a cucumber, and listens well. She will do a GREAT job as county commissioner.
For the first time in a long time, I’m very proud of the voters in Trego county.
And in this county, the ONLY thing that saved Virginia’s butt was that she was on the right side of the Cedar Bluff issue, and her opponent was backed by the KLA, which is trying to destroy the state’s right to regulate water by the use of IGUCAs.
Hays and Russell, of course, want IGUCAs (intensive groundwater use control areas) to be gone, so they can drain the LAST drop out of the Smoky.
My PDR says the two are identical in active ingredients; the Lortab comes in several levels, however, and which level you are getting may make a difference (that is, whether the hydrocodone component is 2.5, 5, 7.5, or 10mg. to go with the acetaminophen.
As noted above, the “inactive” ingredients may have something to do with the nausea. It may be something different in you, as well. I note the Vicodin was, you say, 8 years ago. We all change. Your diet may be somewhat different, your body chemistry, etc. If the nausea/side-effects are that serious, talk to your doctor and see if there is an alternative.
FFm when I had my knees replaced, there were very few painkillers I could take due to some lifelong liver problems I have. Vicodin has ALWAYS made me puke up my tonails. I’m wondering when the last time was you had your liver checked? Because anytime you have liver problems, acetaminophen is a problem.
The only thing I could take was a little jewel called Tramadal. Not sure if that is spelled right. It also goes by the name Ultram. I highly recommend it. And… it isnt very expensive either. I still take it during high gardening season.
It may not be strong enough for you, but I’m wondering, if you’ve taken lots of painkillers over the years, like I did, if it might not work for you.
Just a thought. I wish you painfree days. Chronic pain does things to you. You dont know how bad it is until the pain actually stops. Pmom and Reg and others here know what I mean.
Hank - how do you like Marcie’s chances against Peterjohn this fall? Maybe she can get you that fire station - she is not so focused on downtown and recognizes that there is County outside of Wichita.
FilmFan - agree with much of the above. The two should be identical. The liver question is a good one - has something happened in 8 years to make you less tolerant?
“…has something happened in 8 years to make you less tolerant?”
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C’mon Ben! We’re close to the same age. AGE happened, eight years of it. I haven’t found many physical advantages to aging. Mental, emotional — YES, but physically, aging just sucks!
Ya Ben. Taking pain killers, even OTC ones, especially with acetaminophen, will, over time, shred your liver even if you dont drink. And nausea is one of the signs of liver problems.
FF, get thyself to a doc! Like I dont know you’ve seen more white coats in a lifetime than we can count…
True linda - but I have found that some of my friends are having more problems with meds than others. I don’t seem to have any problem at all with them - not sure why.
But you are correct - aging sucks. Hair? What hair?
“The man in charge of recruiting Muslims to support Barack Obama resigned from the campaign on Monday — just nine days after being appointed — when an Internet newsletter revealed the man was on the board of an Islamic investment fund on which a fundamentalist imam also sits.”
C’mon. Evidence is for fools. Capn works in sweeping, unsupportable generalizations. For all we know, all church shooters wore blue jeans. Or baseball caps. Or ate Cheerios that morning. Any one of them could just as likely be a causal relationship. But that wouldn’t serve the agenda . . .
You don’t really expect any real evidence, do you?
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I believe, if I’m not mistaken, that I had a complete blood work-up earlier this year. My late sister, however, did die of liver cancer in 2005, and no one on the planet knows how she contracted it. She did not drink; she did not take drugs; she was on a vegetarian/microbiotic diet; she did not and had never dallied with intravenous drug dalliers.
I have no history of drug abuse except for my usage of Vicodin in 2001. I did not overdose; I merely took it when I no longer needed it (a period of one year). I took it because I wanted it. And because my doctor had given me many, many nice refills.
I filled them.
Other than that, I cannot think of anything that’s changed, except for my sagging buttcheeks and aging countenance. I was treated for hyperthyroidism in 2004 and now take medication for hyPOthyroidism, but that’s a very common affliction and I can’t see why that would make a difference. But maybe it has made a difference.
Life is so strange: My wholly abstemious sister dies at an appallingly young age. Her Vicodin-popping younger sister has a clean bill of health, except for intermittent back problems. It doesn’t make a scintilla of sense.
Oh well, if I could make sense of this cold, cruel world - I’d be freakin’ sanctified.
John McCain suggests his wife enter a Biker rally topless beauty contest in Sturgis, SD.
“I encouraged Cindy to compete,” McCain told the mostly male crowd as they whistled at hollered. “I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip.”
According to the Crisis Intervention Center for domestic abuse, located in a house across the street from the event site, the Buffalo Chip beauty contest, is often both topless and bottomless . . .
“I’m stuck with Toad Tiahrt. HOPEFULLY not for much longer. He is a vile, dismissive, distant pawn of money.”
So true, JR. But Betts needs to get off his ass and campaign and raise money. Otherwise? Stick a fork in him too.
I love Donald. I’d march into hell with him and for him. But, he’s got to POUNCE on this anti republican, anti incumbent mood. He’s going to have to work for this election. It isnt going to fall into his lap.
As CF would say, “I fret”. He’s a notoriously bad campaigner. But a great office holder. Just the opposite of good hair tfart.
What the f–k am I supposed to do with THAT caustic statement?
I am a responsible individual; I do my job (well); I care about others and don’t allow myself a “sick day” when I feel like Coulter warmed over.
I’ve seen doctors; I’ve seen doctors’ nurses and doctors’ assistants. Just like millions of other folks. I could probably see the inside of my a$$ if I wanted to pay enough dough; but that wouldn’t be aesthetic, would it?
Foot in mouth disease. It’s a terrible thing to have.
Capn, Been to Sturgis, been to buffalo chip, seen the pageant, half the women on the campground are topless, lots beer and weed too. all quite fun better than mardi gras imho and beads have the same purpose
FF, I didnt mean to imply that you abused drugs. Just the use of painkillers, otc or otherwise, will do your liver in. I’m sorry about your sis. Liver cancer frequently strikes with no apparant reason. And it’s a horrible death. My grandfather on my Mom’s side died that way.
“Capn, Been to Sturgis, been to buffalo chip, seen the pageant, half the women on the campground are topless, lots beer and weed too. all quite fun better than mardi gras imho and beads have the same purpose”
Hmmmmm…
Now THAT sounds like heaven. Maybe I should celebrate today by shopping for a Harley?
Naw. My legs are so short the bike is on the ground before my foot hits it….
“Like I dont know you’ve seen more white coats in a lifetime than we can count…”
I only meant that with your history of medical problems, I know you do go to the doc when needed. I meant nothing more. Sorry if it landed wrong on you. I certainly meant no offense.
Folks out here are notorious for not going to the doc when needed. I was just urging you to go, and realized that you, like me, had probably seen all the “white” coats you wanted for a lifetime.
“So you’re saying that McCain was engaging in and celebrating an event of illegal nudity, widespread pot smoking, and public drinking and intoxication?”
Liver cancer is bad; my dad died of it at a young age. FF, I also am not accusing you of any abuse of pharmaceuticals, but if you have taken a lot of acetaminophen over time, this could have affected your liver in a bad way.
By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press Writer Mon Mar 17, 1:57 AM ET
WASHINGTON - Arrogance is a common vice in presidential politics. A person must be more than a little self-important to wake up one day and say, “I belong in the Oval Office.”
ADVERTISEMENT
But there’s a line smart politicians don’t cross — somewhere between “I’m qualified to be president” and “I’m born to be president.” Wherever it lies, Barack Obama better watch his step.
He’s bordering on arrogance.
The dictionary defines the word as an “offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.” Obama may not be offensive or overbearing, but he can be a bit too cocky for his own good.
The freshman senator told reporters in July that he would overcome Hillary Rodham Clinton’s lead in the polls because “to know me is to love me.”
A few months later, he said, “Every place is Barack Obama country once Barack Obama’s been there.”
True, there’s a certain amount of tongue-in-cheekiness to such remarks — almost as if Obama doesn’t want to take his adoring crowds and political ascent too seriously. He was surely kidding when he told supporters in January that by the time he was done speaking “a light will shine down from somewhere.”
“It will light upon you,” he continued. “You will experience an epiphany. And you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack. I have to do it.”
But both Obama and his wife, Michelle, ooze a sense of entitlement.
“Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics,” his wife said a few weeks ago, adding that Americans will get only one chance to elect him.
Obama’s cool self-confidence got him into trouble in New Hampshire when he said Clinton was “likable enough,” faint praise that grated on female votes who didn’t appreciate him condescending to the former first lady.
Privately, aides and associates of Obama tell stories about a boss who can be aloof and ungracious. He holds firmly to views and doesn’t like to be challenged, traits that President Bush packaged and sold under the “resolute” brand in the 2004 election. For Bush, those qualities proved to be dangerous in a time of war and in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina….snip”
I could see a strong case for that interpretave reading.
However, the problem for the Biblical literalists (fundamentalists) is that they “do not interprete the Bible, they just read it and believe it.”
So, if it doesn’t “say it,” they can’t “believe it.”
Hence, God lied to Adam according to the principles that the fundamentalists use–God said one thing, and He did another.
This of course ignores the concurrent problem of how and why an omniscient God would tell Adam not to eat the fruit, warning him with immediate death, while knowing full well that Adam will eat the fruit.
Literalists can’t explain this. They just attack one’s motives and walk off in a self-righteous huff . . .
“Capn.. since noone else answered that I saw: They did “die”. It is talking about the “second death” or spiritual death, which is separation from God.”
Free will Capn. It is what we have, as did Adam. I grant you it is a complicated, difficult concept in the context of an all-knowing God. But you make it more difficult than it needs to be when you begin at unbelief.
Fortunately, my sister didn’t suffer - and was not ill for long. Exactly one month after her diagnosis, she peacefully passed away (November 2005) with her devoted husband at her side. Her husband conveyed to us that, from the moment she entered the hospital, she was availed of a morphine drip. Without this remedy, she would have suffered wretchedly.
Yes, I did take Vicodin for one year when I didn’t need it. I didn’t take any more than the allotted daily dosage; however, I took it all at one time (in the evenings) because of the euphoria-inducing properties therein. Yes, I remember thinking to myself, “Could I be damaging my liver?”
I then remember thinking to myself, “I don’t care.”
That, to be sure, is the danger of opiate drug usage, even with a prescription. The euphoria is so pervasive that it obliterates reason.
But there’s no euphoria to be had with Lortab. Just ain’t happening. As regards my liver, I may have dodged a bullet; I may have damaged it. I don’t really know.
I just know this: I can’t understand why my late sister died and Big, Bad Bertha is still kickin’. She had millions of friends on every continent; her hospital in Hawaii had to MOVE HER TO A SUITE to accommodate all the flowers, gifts, e-mails, and well wishes.
When Vicodin Vivienne (that would be me) has been hospitalized, I didn’t get a single card, letter, “Get Well Soon” adomonition or change of venue to handle the underflow of ministrations. She left a grieving husband who loved her profoundly. I left an indifferent, newly-disabled ex-impregnator who probably doesn’t even remember how many underage females he knocked up and left in his wake.
This s–t makes no sense to me. If I’ve damaged my liver, so be it. When the time comes, strap me to one of those morphine drips, shove U2’s “October” CD into that stereo and let me go out with a hosanna. Not a bang - that would be irony upon irony……..
“Free will Capn. It is what we have, as did Adam. I grant you it is a complicated, difficult concept in the context of an all-knowing God. But you make it more difficult than it needs to be when you begin at unbelief.”
Then god doesn’t have a plan and doesn’t interfere in the actions and decisions of people. That would mean the Bible is wrong, but you are referencing the Bible. A catch-22.
“You are welcome to your opinions… even when they are wrong. What I said is correct.”
The Bible says nothing of what you claim it says. If you could point me to where it says Adam will certainly spiritually die then you’ll have a point. Until then you are just re-writing what’s in the Bible.
It’s simple, just give me the quote. It’s pretty easy, right in the first book.
Hey! I’ve got a warm, fuzzy offering to one of our post-ers who has deigned to grace us with his presence today.
Earlier this week, I was perched at Cici’s Pizza on South Seneca after work, idly thumbing through the latest issue of US magazine. When I got to page 11 of the colorful publication, I stopped mid-bite.
“What in the HELLOLA is —- doing in this magazine?” I asked myself. “He wouldn’t date Drew Barrymore! She sounds like something Timothy Leary brought up after an all-night bacchanale outside the Watergate headquarters!” I snorted arrogantly. “What in the WORLD would they talk about!”
Then again, it’s not my place to ruminate about this arcana. But anyone who can (momentarily) keep me from pigging out probably deserves props…..
Nudity isn’t illegal in the campground private property I think. and the cops mostly leave the bikers alone execpt for the most flagrant violations 1000’s of bikers vs dozs of cops and the fact that the 100,000 bikers put a lot of money into the tiny town of sturgis and South dakota
“No Maggie. What it means it is that it is way over your head.”
Nope, you just can’t argue a position that is inherently flawed. If you completely disregard your theology then you can advocate for free will. Until then….
If that’s what you believe Capn, fine. No one is forcing anything on you. Please give us the same courtesy.
I was just stating my perception of the obvious reason that you have these difficulties with Bible interpretation. The more you come at it from the secular worlds’ viewpoint, the more difficult it will be.
And not only that, when one reads Genesis, one does not get a picture of the “omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent” God that He later became in Paul’s time.
After Adam eats the fruit, God hurriedly kicks them out so that they can’t eat from the “tree of life” and live forever like a god.
He angrily condemns man and the serpent for all eternity, kind of a funny reaction for a being who supposedly knows what will happen before it happens.
“Who told you that you are naked?” He thunders at Adam. Why bother to ask, if one already knows?
>This of course ignores the concurrent problem of how and why an omniscient God would tell Adam not to eat the fruit, warning him with immediate death, while knowing full well that Adam will eat the fruit.<
Capn.. Adam was given a choice, and an omiscient God, knowing that Adam would sin, began His divine and wonderful plan of Salvation which gives Him all the credit and all the glory. Man and God reconciled for eternity, which was the original intent, making God’s decision perfectly logical.
“If you tell a mental child like Adam was according to the story, “don’t eat this or you’ll die,” it is a stretch to see that dying as spiritual only.”
Samkan insists that eating a magical fruit will impair one’s soul. According to the myth Adam was built without knowledge of good and evil but was expected to make moral choices without the correct programming. It’s like asking a blind man to explain the colors of the rainbow without ever having seen them.
Naturally God would have known this. He specifically put a couple of trees in the Garden knowing full well the implications of doing so and providing the knowledgeable serpent to influence Adam. But it’s a silly child’s tale not meant to be taken literally.
Sometimes your body just doesn’t respond the same way after a period of time. It could be a true allergy to hydrocodone- an allergy doesn’t appear the first time around because your body hasn’t built the antibodies to it yet. Its the SECOND time that you have to worry about.
THere is no difference between the active ingredients in Lortab, Vicodin, and Hydrocodone…they’re all the same.
It is likely that its just a medication that you cannot tolerate. I can’t tolerate Percocet. Makes me sick as a dog. I can handle Lortab just fine.
Yeah pain just sucks. There isn’t need to be so stoic. You can feel better or you can feel worse.
As far as KFG’s celebration, I’m happy for you. Beemer, that’s not good though.
I was also hoping Kline would have won the election. That would make a democrat the shoo in.
I also agree, Boyda’s gone. Might as well not spend hte money. I even like Jenkins.
OH and I was wrong about ole Brungardt, he kept his seat afterall, by a smidge. At least the fundy freak didn’t take over.
And Linda, dear Linda..look at those on the board who are supportive of Peterjohn and what does that tell you.
Slattery is going to have to get some big money if he’s going to beat Roberts. We should help him do that. Roberts needs to go.
outlander says that I have an “obvious reason that you have these difficulties with Bible interpretation.”
Wrong.
I have no problem with Genesis whatsoever. It’s perfectly consistent with the world-view of the time it originated, probably around 5,000 BC and several millenia later.
It is a creation-myth (actually two stories redacted into one) intended to as Milton put it, “justify the ways of God to man.”
It is the literalists who as you say “have difficulties.”
“Capn.. Adam was given a choice, and an omiscient God, knowing that Adam would sin, began His divine and wonderful plan of Salvation which gives Him all the credit and all the glory. Man and God reconciled for eternity, which was the original intent, making God’s decision perfectly logical.”
A couple of problems. First how did you determine omniscience without having more knowledge to know that God has omniscience? It’s an impossibility so you can’t make such a statement. Second, if this god has a plan then nature is deterministic and there is no free will so choice is just an illusion. Your theology is contradictory, therefore absurd.
“Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.”
The Bible does say that women are worth half the value of a man. If the Christians on this board believe in the Bible then I’d like to hear them admit that they believe women are inferior to men.
A danger with acetominophen: We have it in Lortab/Vicodin. We also have ot of course in Tylenol and its generics. But then we ALSE have it in many cold and allergy remedies. So, it is very easy to overdose on it without even thinking about it.
To make matters potentially worse - acetominophen is NOT considered an ‘interesting’ drug like, for example, the opiates. So, we likely don’t pay a lot of attention.
I would also be looking at other ‘uninteresting’ drugs like anti-inflammatory meds as a possible liver toxin. And, especially if you are in an agricultural area, pesticide or solvent exposure.
Good point Captain. There are children’s tales (like the Golden Compass), then there are silly tales like the Bible. Only an adult with a child’s mind would take them seriously. I shouldn’t say that though, a child naturally views them as fairy tales until they are brainwashed to believe they are true.
>I mean if God meant “spirtual death,” why didn’t he say it?<
Capn… A literal interpretation does not make sense. Physical death was a result of sin and therefore Adam would not have understood physical death before the fall.
“Capn… A literal interpretation does not make sense. Physical death was a result of sin and therefore Adam would not have understood physical death before the fall.”
That makes sense. God created the Bible but we aren’t to listen to what he said but just make up our own meanings and attribute what we think to his guidance.
Doug,
You are welcome to your unbelief and it’s consequences. As for me, I will serve the Lord and nothing you can say will ever change that. You see, I did NOT learn about God as a child, I only learned to accept Him after years of unbelief and finally realizing the truth.
And no, nowhere in the Bible does God say that women are inferior to men.
God would give a calculus test to a three year old then punish him if he failed the test. After all, the child had a choice whether or not to fail. Is it God’s fault the child didn’t have proper knowledge to make adequate decisions?
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.”
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.”
And so on and so on. Such a learned biblical scholar such as Samkan is unaware that the Bible says women are inferior and filthier than men. Of course if he actually read the Bible then he wouldn’t be a believer. I suppose knowledge is the consequence of unbelief that he speaks of.
Doug,
Try INTERPRETING what you read…. good grief, I have read the Bible many more times than you I am positive of that! Women are different from men, not inferior. Men are to love women as Christ loved the church and gave his life for her!
Yes, it’s usually understood that people who are created to be subservient to others are really equals. I suppose it could work in other areas. We didn’t enslave Blacks because of a belief they were inferior, but we enslaved them because we loved them so much. Hmmm, I guess O.J. Simpson really Nicole because he loved her too much.
What a sorry, pathetic argument. It’s clear you don’t know anything about your bible or religion.
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.
And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.”
Looks like I was mistaken. Women are work 3/5 the value of a man, not half. I stand corrected.
>“Why put the trees in the garden at all if you don’t want man to eat from them?”<
Good question! “Why did God create woman when he knew that man would be unfaithful and commit adultery?” I don’t know! Other than God created the Garden for Him and his angels…. man came later. It could go on and on.. what believers must do is look at the long term goal of a perfect heaven, and look past the short term world that we screwed up in the first place. It’s all about choices.. God may know what our choice may be, but we still have to make them! If we make the right choices then in the end it all works out.
Doug…
Maybe someday God will give you knowledge to actually understand the meaning, and not just the words. Excuse me, but I have to leave to go serve some of those women who you say I believe are half my worth. You truly do not understand. Try reading how Christ lived, without that, the Old Testament can indeed be a sad story to read.
It is the so called Christian Sunday School teacher still mocking Christians, the Bible, and God.
Taking the Bible literally doesn’t mean you take every word literally like CapnAmerica’s strawman would have you believe.
Taking the Bible “literally” simply means you believe all of what the Bible says. Liberals like CapnAmerica get all excited when they can find something like this to say we should take it word for word without any room for interpretation because we take the Bible “literall.”
It is the classic strawman argument he sets up and then beats down.
There was no right answer for CapnAmerica and that is why I never answered the question last night.
No matter what he already had his strawman set up and ready to knock it down.
And then he cries because I was questioning his motives for asking it last night.
“Maybe someday God will give you knowledge to actually understand the meaning, and not just the words.”
Yes, because reading something quite clear about men being worth 50 shekels and women 30 shekels is so vague and metaphorical. Oh well, chalk another one up to Christian dishonesty (or is it incompetence?).
Oh, I forgot. The Christian’s 10th Commandment put women on the same level as cattle. The theme that women are the property of men is abundant throughout the Bible. Even when Noah was loading the Ark the female animals were the property of the male animals.
Too bad fundies don’t read there Bible, otherwise I wouldn’t need to point out their scripture to them.
Maggie, you are so boringly predictable. Back and forth to the atheist websites to gather arguments and scriptures he can misinterpret to try to convince yourself that God doesn’t exist.
Maggie, we don’t jump all over you here for your disbelief in an attempt to justify our belief. It would be nice to be afforded the same courtesy.
I do feel bad for you though. There is no such thing as a person who cannot be redeemed or someone who God is not drawing to Him. The invitation is always open.
Maggotpunk
Posted August 6, 2008 at 12:10 pm | Permalink
“Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.”
The Bible does say that women are worth half the value of a man. If the Christians on this board believe in the Bible then I’d like to hear them admit that they believe women are inferior to men.
———
I measure a person by their height. In general, women are shorter therefore measure less.
In the New Testament we are told that as men we should love our wives as Christ loved the Church.
I have been going to church my whole life, at many different churches and denominations as well. I have read the Bible and have been studying the Bible for some time. I have yet to get a theme of women being less than men.
Care to explain where you do?
I would like to see what scripture you are using to say that women are to be treated badly or that they are property of men or that they are inferior.
I still think it is questionable that anyone would call themselves a Christian and then lump themselves in with Maggotpunk and others in mocking Christianity.
Let alone someone who claims to be a Sunday School Teacher.
“Maggie, we don’t jump all over you here for your disbelief in an attempt to justify our belief.”
——
I don’t know WHY you do the jumping, but I guarantee you and many others DO jump all over Maggotpunk and others who post something / anything you disagree with! At least if you are going to profess such a great deal of superiority in your faith based life, be honest.
399 Comments
Congratulations to Karl Peterjohn for his strong win for Sedgwick County Commissioner.
Boo, Peterjohn was the WRONG choice. You’ll reap what you sow.
Karl Peterjohn is probably the most informed person in Sedgwick County and perhaps Kansas in regard to county and state finances. He is an information resource for government representatives of both political parties.
Karl also knows that taxes shouldn’t be wasted on unneeded, unwanted, unplanned projects such as the 1/2 billion dollar albatross downtown arena.
In reality, this election was a referendum on the white elephant downtown arena. Huge numbers of voters stood up and said “we told you, we don’t approve of that tremendously wasteful white elephant ice hockey downtown arena.”
It was an interesting win by Petterjohn. I think it tells us more than that he won the nomination. Do you think voters are fed-up? I think they are!
Do you think the school bond issue has a chance? I’m pretty sure they will need to quickly show us why we should trust them, why they can’t find ways to save, why spending additional money will impact our students in a positive way.
Hey JWink, Linda,
I voted for Peterjohn because I’m basically fed up with Winters. He’s promised us a fire station out here for the last 15 years. My property taxes increase every year. My homeowners insurance keeps going up too. 5.5 miles from the fire station south of Andale. With the way the county has built up over the years there’s no excuse for anyone to be greater than five miles from a fire station.
Peterjohn probably won’t get us one either but he might help a little on the damn property taxes.
This year I wasn’t registered as a Republican for the primary. An oversight I actually was disappointed to learn when I showed up at the polls. Could have sworn I made that change, must have just thought about it. Darn, I’m gettin’ old! Anyway, thanks for your vote Hank! It’s how I would have voted if I had done the smart thing in registering. Winters time should have ended!
Congratulations Carl Peterjohn!!!
I had almost completely lost faith in the common sense of the voting public to elect good, honest men and women with conservative fiscal values. Folks that realize the earners themselves can best decide what is best for them in how they spend their money and not some government taxing entity.
As ‘good a guy’ as Dave Unruh might be, I hope he is voted out of office for his support of increased taxes at every decision as not one of the things the taxpayer has funded, that should have been private development, has worked out financially and we are paying millions annually our our own money to fiance others businesses making them millionares on our money.
Another opportunity to get to some of the truth behind this most disastrous and corrupt bushco administration.
———
Siddiqui arrest brings attention to the ‘disappeared’ issue in Pakistan
KABUL, AFGHANISTAN — The high-profile arrest of a Pakistani woman suspected of Al Qaeda links casts a spotlight on an issue her nation’s fledgling civilian government has been slow to confront: years of official secrecy surrounding the fate of hundreds of people rounded up as terrorism suspects.
Some human rights activists believe that Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani-born neuroscientist who appeared Tuesday in federal district court in New York, was originally “disappeared” by Pakistani authorities five years ago, possibly at U.S. behest.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-disappeared6-2008aug06,0,3725428.story
JWink–
Karl Peterjohn?! Are you kidding me?
This guy is bought and paid for by the Billionaire Koch Bros.
The last thing we need is more “representation” for special interests in Wichita.
Hank–
How much has your mill levy gone up?
Most people’s taxes have increased because of increased appraisals.
Regular–
Thanks for attempting to explain the paradox of Genesis 2 in which God says “the day you eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, you shall surely die.”
Your answer was long, convoluted, rambling and ultimately unable to explain the paradox.
The most traditional (orthodox) view of Genesis boils the story down to disobedience: Adam disobeyed God. His fall from grace represents the eternal fall from grace of all humankind evermore.
So, one cannot choose to “eat of the fruit of good and evil” today because Adam already made that choice. It’s too late. We are all born into sin.
Our only hope and redemption is to appeal to the Son who was born and lived without sin. The Son of God redeems the inherent sin of the Father of Man.
That’s the traditional Christian view of Adam’s Fall. You can argue with it if you want, but if you do, you are arguing against theological positions that go back through ever major Christian theologian from Paul to Luther to Calvin to Bishop Spong.
Any way, it doesn’t answer the question, “if God doesn’t lie, why did he say the day you eat of the fruit, you shall die and then they didn’t die?
The election produced some interesting results. Just the other day Paul was remarking how the abortion issue is going to hurt pro-choicers. So what did we see?
The more extremist anti-choice candidates lost. Kline lost to an employee he fired (although his former employee is anti-choice). Gietzen lost to a fellow anti who even signed Gietzen’s anti-choice ad. A pro-choice Republicans (Jenkins) defeated anti-choice Republican Ryun.
So it can be said, as it was said for the last election, Kansans don’t like anti-choice extremists. These days if a candidate wants to lose then just emphasize how much of an anti you are. I’m thinking a lot of voters are getting turned off by the single issue candidates ever since Kline focused solely on a single issue much to the detriment of Kansas.
morning, capn. Is today the day you are going to enlighten us with your evidence to prove that all church shooters are CONs, as you so eloquently claimed on the 1st of this month? Or, are you going to be honest and admit you were just mouthing off and claiming things you want to believe?
Raptor–
I believe in evidence, in cause and effect.
When the CON said that he wanted to shoot up the church because it was full of liberals and he hates liberals, I believe him.
The burden of proof is on you to show that years of listening to right-wing hate-radio doesn’t have an impact on angry CONs like this Adkisson guy . . .
I love it when these guys get into office (Peterjohn). Now we can see whether they can help govern or simply snipe and obstruct.
I’d guess the turn-out of the more hard-core radical conservatives has placed many of the more extreme Republican candidates on the general election ballot.
And the mass of voters - the regular, normal voters, have pretty much had enough of the extremists.
This may bode well for more progressive and moderate candidates in te general election.
I suppose it was just “coincidence” that the anthrax letters targetted liberals like Leahy and Daschle . . . strongly indicating an another angry CON was behind it.
BTW, ABC News still hasn’t explained its breathless reportage that “highly placed sources” linked Saddam Hussein to the anthrax letters.
I think Americans have a right to know who was lying to the press to whip up war hysteria.
Turns out that Peterjohn writes for the “Heartland Institute,” a think tank that is described according to SourceWatch:
It campaigns against what it refers to as “junk science”; supports “common-sense environmentalism”, such as opposition to the the Kyoto protocol aimed at countering global warming and promoting genetically engineered crops and products; it supports the privatization of public services; it opposes tobacco control measure such as tobacco tax increases and denies the health effects of second-hand smoke; it supports the introduction of school vouchers . . .
*****
It has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding from Big Tobacco and the Charles Koch foundation is listed as a major donor.
the burden of proof is definitely not on me. YOU are the one that stated:
“On the other hand, people that shoot up churches are always CONs, aren’t they?”
You take one incident and expand it to all. That is erroneous application of ‘logic’. It would be similar to me learning of one bank robber driving a Ford, then claiming as fact that all people driving Fords are bank robbers.
Nice try at spin there, capn. You stated it as fact, lets see your proof or for once be honest and admit you were just spouting off.
btw, capn. I don’t remember seeing any evidence that nutjob was even a conservative–do yo uhave inside info on that one as well? Hating liberals is not proof of anything..he could be a communist. A Nazi. A Libertarian. There is no proof of much of anything..except he is a nut job with a gun.
Shall we start comparing lists there Raptor?
Ok, I’ll start.
Tim Mc Veigh, Dennis Rader.
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 9:15 am | Permalink
Raptor–
I believe in evidence, in cause and effect.
When the CON said that he wanted to shoot up the church because it was full of liberals and he hates liberals, I believe him.
The burden of proof is on you to show that years of listening to right-wing hate-radio doesn’t have an impact on angry CONs like this Adkisson guy .
———————-
In other words, the Crapn can make any statement he wants, however outlandish, and others must prove him wrong.
I say the Crapn wears pink panties and loves kissing sheep on the mouth.
Until proven wrong, the statement stands.
Karl Peterjohn lists no donors that I can find on his “Kansas Taxpayer’s Network” . . . why does he feel the need to hide them, one wonders?
I did find this telling diatribe however:
“Bob Corkins is an excellent choice as the next commissioner for education in Kansas. He is one of the top experts on school finance in this state with excellent legislative contacts and he has his own children in public schools. A dirty little secret is that some of the government school officials children are attending or have attended private schools.
“The government school establishment, the left wing Kansas press, the left wing elected officials have all responded with outrage to his appointment. The vile, hateful, and wildly inaccurate statements from tax ‘n spend legislators like Sen. John Vratil, Sen. Tony Hensley, Sen. Jean Schodorf, state school board member Bill Wagnon, and editorials in newspapers like the Wichita Eagle, the Lawrence Journal World, and the rest of the left-wing press in this state demonstrate their commitment to the state school monopoly.”
Karl Peterjohn
What, Regular?
No response to the Genesis 2 paradox?
Yup.
I’d go for the cheap shot if I were you too . . .
Course if I were you, I’d shave my beard and get a job . . . but, I digress . . .
Reg, you forgot to add that while the Capn’A is wearing the panties and kissing the sheep he is reading Moveon and listening to the song, “When I think about you, I touch myself.”
#
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 8:35 am | Permalink
Hank–
How much has your mill levy gone up?
Most people’s taxes have increased because of increased appraisals.
________________________________________________
It’s gone up several times over the years because of all the new schools in the Goddard scholl district. My appraised value has doubled in the last 20 years.
Raptor shows the state of CON ignorance with this tidbit: “I don’t remember seeing any evidence that nutjob was even a conservative–do yo uhave inside info on that one as well?”
The “inside information” I got was reading the local news articles that revealed the letter he had written in his car stating that he “hated liberals, that liberals were responsible for everything bad in this country” and that investigators found conservative books like Michael Savage’s “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” and several others.
As KSGrm repeatedly points out–if you CONs agree, no evidence is needed– if you disagee, no evidence is enough.
My appraised value doubled in ten years.
That’s what you get for fixing up your house.
Still, good schools mean good resale values for one’s house, so one can do well by doing good in that case.
Granted, Winters has been in office way too long.
But Peterjohn? The best candidate Garvey money could buy.
Good news in Johnson county, tho. Phil is gone, done in by the hand of the guy he fired. What goes around, etc.
Also good news in 2nd District. Maybe Ryun will finally get the hint that ain’t nobody wants him around anymore.
Dennis
Petterjohn hasn’t won the office yet, but I very much appreciate all you’ve pointed out, Capn! Thanks.
My pleasure, Linda.
I don’t know who the Dem is running against Peterjohn, but the man must be stopped from gaining power and inflicting more “I hate government” on us.
Marcey Gregory. Don’t know enough about her either. But I will find out!
Here is the astounding totality of information The Eagle gave us about this race. Maybe ValuesBoy wrote an especially long column of nothingness and there wasn’t room int he paper for more. Or something equally “important.”
http://www.kansas.com/224/story/477504.html
“It was an interesting win by Petterjohn. I think it tells us more than that he won the nomination. Do you think voters are fed-up? I think they are!”
I agree with that Linda. And it was the primary for the deficit loving republicans. He isnt in office yet.
However, the voters are in a decidedly anti incumbent mood. In Saline county, two incumbent county commishes were defeated.
And where is Kelly? I hope he’d preparing his donation to KEC. Jenkins is gonna mop the floor with boyda. All those repukes who couldnt stand ryun are going to get to home in November and vote republican.
Stick a fork in boyda. She’s done.
Oh, and check this out. A very popular incumbent out here barely held her seat. And she’s on the correct side of water issues, unlike her opponent.
KS House 118 (R)
Precincts Reporting:
69 of 69
Candidate Votes
Virginia B. Beamer 1853
Don Hineman 1848
Five freakin’ votes.
Yep. Incumbents are in for a rude awakening this fall. Too bad she has NO opposition from the democrats.
Thanks again Tim Peterson.
I have a question this fine morning; and it has diddley-s–t to do with Peterjohnsons, lib/con contretemps and/or Republican/Democrat debates.
No, no - this is far more important. At least to me.
I have a question for anyone who’s ever taken prescription painkillers to avoid self-immolation: Are generic Vicodin (hydrocodone) and generic Lortab (also named hydrocodone) the exact same medication? I’m getting one answer from the professional pharmacist dudes, and I’m deriving another answer from a 49-year-old songstress (me).
Nearly eight years ago, I was prescribed Vicodin for a severe back injury. I suffered absolutely no side effects: no nasty hangover, no nausea, no upchucking, no dumbing down of any senses that I could discern.
Fast-forward to 2008: I’m taking far less of the medication (Lortab this time, not the big “V”) - and suffering far more side effects. I’m only taking it sporadically; only when my back flares up.
Before any religionists accuse me of rampant hedonism: I’m exuding a great deal of self-discipline and breaking the pills in half and ingesting less than the prescribed dosage.
And I still deal with next-day fallout: lovely things like puking and loss of appetite and a heavy feeling in my chest (no, not the heavy feelings nestled behind my double-d’s, but something more ominous, probably). But I’m still going to work the next day; if I have to hold a plastic refuse bag under my chin, I do so.
Needless to say, this isn’t pleasant. The medical people tell me there’s no perceptible difference between the two meds. I say someone’s lying to me.
I’d say it’s a pretty serious lie. Like the lie my ex once told me - not only about “good girls not gittin’ pregnunt” but about, well…..
Something that a pic of an unclothed Arnold Schwarzenneger put the lie to most powerfully.
I don’t like being lied to - especially when it involves hurling my guts for one and all to see. Conversely, I have very, very happy memories of Vicodin. I have very euphoric memories of feeling like a baby chick wrapped in a blanket of warm milk, floating over the cosmos with nothing but love for everyone in the whole, widest WORLD.
Oh well - the Lortab does its job when the pain gets intense. It makes me feel comfy and sends me off to sleepy-bye suburbia. But I don’t like pukin’. And here I thought only Ann Coulter could induce that kind of horror…………
GENERIC NAME: HYDROCODONE/ACETAMINOPHEN - ORAL (hi-dro-CODE-own/ah-seet-ah-MIN-oh-fen)
BRAND NAME(S): Lorcet, Lortab, Norco, Vicodin
BRAND NAME(S): Lorcet, Lortab, Norco, Vicodin
http://www.medicinenet.com/hydrocodoneacetaminophen-oral/article.htm
Oh, and did I mention, the incumbent county commissioner here with the last name of fabrizius, and if you know western kansas, you know what THAT means…
LOST HIS ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
To an upstart woman of a certain age, Kendal Ottley.
Hehehehehehehehhehehehehe!
I’m taking a lot of personal satisfaction in this because he is the LAST of the mofo’s who destroyed my board and took my job to be voted OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heheheheh. HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEEEEEEEEEE!
Rot in hell you bassturd. I hear he has cancer, and yes, I know this makes me look bad, but I wish him a long, slow and painful death.
Couldnt happen to a nicer person.
Don’t mince words KFG, tell us what’s on your mind.
I’m no pharmacist, but my thoughts: as to the active ingredient, hydrocodone, the two are the same. The difference between the two likely is the “filler” if I may, the coating on the tabs, etc. It may well be that with the passage of time, that once which gave you no side effects now does, due to changes in body chemistry. That’s the best I can do, offering little meaningful, but offering my empathy for your current situation with the meds.
So… in Trego county anyway, the incumbent ass kicking continues.
hee hee hee hee heeeeeeee….
Ding dong the bassturds are gone. The LAST of the anti-woman, anti-gay bigots who were willing to sacrifice the county’s economy to make a point, are GONE!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now maybe this county and community can get back on the right track.
Yeah Reg!
Actually, even though she’s a conservative repub, Kendal and I have been friends for a very long time as we worked on political issues together more than twenty years ago.
She’s very smart, very level headed, cool as a cucumber, and listens well. She will do a GREAT job as county commissioner.
For the first time in a long time, I’m very proud of the voters in Trego county.
And in this county, the ONLY thing that saved Virginia’s butt was that she was on the right side of the Cedar Bluff issue, and her opponent was backed by the KLA, which is trying to destroy the state’s right to regulate water by the use of IGUCAs.
Hays and Russell, of course, want IGUCAs (intensive groundwater use control areas) to be gone, so they can drain the LAST drop out of the Smoky.
For once, it’s a good day to be me
Boyda should have switched parties and ran as Republican.
She’s a Democrat in name only, as far as I can tell.
Why is that Capn?
Is it because she didn’t jump on the bandwagon for Obama?
Filmfan:
My PDR says the two are identical in active ingredients; the Lortab comes in several levels, however, and which level you are getting may make a difference (that is, whether the hydrocodone component is 2.5, 5, 7.5, or 10mg. to go with the acetaminophen.
As noted above, the “inactive” ingredients may have something to do with the nausea. It may be something different in you, as well. I note the Vicodin was, you say, 8 years ago. We all change. Your diet may be somewhat different, your body chemistry, etc. If the nausea/side-effects are that serious, talk to your doctor and see if there is an alternative.
Wish you the best.
FFm when I had my knees replaced, there were very few painkillers I could take due to some lifelong liver problems I have. Vicodin has ALWAYS made me puke up my tonails. I’m wondering when the last time was you had your liver checked? Because anytime you have liver problems, acetaminophen is a problem.
The only thing I could take was a little jewel called Tramadal. Not sure if that is spelled right. It also goes by the name Ultram. I highly recommend it. And… it isnt very expensive either. I still take it during high gardening season.
It may not be strong enough for you, but I’m wondering, if you’ve taken lots of painkillers over the years, like I did, if it might not work for you.
Just a thought. I wish you painfree days. Chronic pain does things to you. You dont know how bad it is until the pain actually stops. Pmom and Reg and others here know what I mean.
Actually JR, the captain is right about boyda. I agree, but for probably different reasons.
She has, in the past, said she would support a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
She goes back and forth, flip flopping all the way on that issue, but she’s a con in progressive clothing.
Stick a fork in her flop floppin’ conservative ass. If there is a god, she’s done.
Hank - how do you like Marcie’s chances against Peterjohn this fall? Maybe she can get you that fire station - she is not so focused on downtown and recognizes that there is County outside of Wichita.
Correct, KSGrrl.
Her first interview on national tv was “the people support the Iraq War or they wouldn’t have voted for Bush in 04. I’m not going to stop it.”
She routinely tells the national party to “go to hell.”
As far as not jumping on Obama’s bandwagon, who exactly is she for?
Your guess is as good as mine.
With Dems like this, who needs an opposition party?
Oh man! I’m still doing the happy dance about lanny fabrizius going down in flames. Hell, I may have to go to town and celebrate!
Be sure and do the West Texas steering wheel greeting KFG.
You know, the lifting of the one finger to other drivers to wave “hi.”
If you’re feeling really good, you can do the finger wave and a head nod.
FilmFan - agree with much of the above. The two should be identical. The liver question is a good one - has something happened in 8 years to make you less tolerant?
Well,
Boyda is not my representative.
I’m stuck with Toad Tiahrt. HOPEFULLY not for much longer. He is a vile, dismissive, distant pawn of money.
But what I know about Boyda is she did break to the pressure to jump on board the Obama train wreck.
“…has something happened in 8 years to make you less tolerant?”
—
C’mon Ben! We’re close to the same age. AGE happened, eight years of it. I haven’t found many physical advantages to aging. Mental, emotional — YES, but physically, aging just sucks!
“With Dems like this, who needs an opposition party?”
That’s sorta the way I feel about Barack Obama.
I guess that’s my bad.
I didn’t sit in a room with him. The light did not hit me.
I never got the religion.
I STILL don’t find myself saying “I have to vote for Barack.”
Ya Ben. Taking pain killers, even OTC ones, especially with acetaminophen, will, over time, shred your liver even if you dont drink. And nausea is one of the signs of liver problems.
FF, get thyself to a doc! Like I dont know you’ve seen more white coats in a lifetime than we can count…
True linda - but I have found that some of my friends are having more problems with meds than others. I don’t seem to have any problem at all with them - not sure why.
But you are correct - aging sucks. Hair? What hair?
““With Dems like this, who needs an opposition party?”
That’s sorta the way I feel about Barack Obama.”
Me too Jr. And my little screed about boyda ought to put the lie to the lie that I support candidates based on their x or y chromosomes.
I saw that too, KSGrrl, and your point is duly noted.
Nice spin there capn. You ever going to provide any evidence of your claim as fact that all church shooters are CONs?
Obviously not. At least I will thank you for not going into vulgar juvenile mode like beber did when I asked for verification.
“She routinely tells the national party to “go to hell.”
Well, that’s not an all together bad thing. But she tends to do that on ALL progressive issues. The DLC and pelosi should love her.
“As far as not jumping on Obama’s bandwagon, who exactly is she for?
Your guess is as good as mine.”
I’m sure, like most of her “positions”, it changes from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute…
Speaking of Obama-
“The man in charge of recruiting Muslims to support Barack Obama resigned from the campaign on Monday — just nine days after being appointed — when an Internet newsletter revealed the man was on the board of an Islamic investment fund on which a fundamentalist imam also sits.”
hmmmm.
Raptor:
C’mon. Evidence is for fools. Capn works in sweeping, unsupportable generalizations. For all we know, all church shooters wore blue jeans. Or baseball caps. Or ate Cheerios that morning. Any one of them could just as likely be a causal relationship. But that wouldn’t serve the agenda . . .
You don’t really expect any real evidence, do you?
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I believe, if I’m not mistaken, that I had a complete blood work-up earlier this year. My late sister, however, did die of liver cancer in 2005, and no one on the planet knows how she contracted it. She did not drink; she did not take drugs; she was on a vegetarian/microbiotic diet; she did not and had never dallied with intravenous drug dalliers.
I have no history of drug abuse except for my usage of Vicodin in 2001. I did not overdose; I merely took it when I no longer needed it (a period of one year). I took it because I wanted it. And because my doctor had given me many, many nice refills.
I filled them.
Other than that, I cannot think of anything that’s changed, except for my sagging buttcheeks and aging countenance. I was treated for hyperthyroidism in 2004 and now take medication for hyPOthyroidism, but that’s a very common affliction and I can’t see why that would make a difference. But maybe it has made a difference.
Life is so strange: My wholly abstemious sister dies at an appallingly young age. Her Vicodin-popping younger sister has a clean bill of health, except for intermittent back problems. It doesn’t make a scintilla of sense.
Oh well, if I could make sense of this cold, cruel world - I’d be freakin’ sanctified.
Just unbelievable . . .
John McCain suggests his wife enter a Biker rally topless beauty contest in Sturgis, SD.
“I encouraged Cindy to compete,” McCain told the mostly male crowd as they whistled at hollered. “I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip.”
According to the Crisis Intervention Center for domestic abuse, located in a house across the street from the event site, the Buffalo Chip beauty contest, is often both topless and bottomless . . .
Farmgrl, someone or something set of bunch of Phelps property on fire too, somehow I dont see Topeka wasting too much time finding out who did it.
As for peterjohn at least he’ll be against spending 56 million on a bigger jail.
“I’m stuck with Toad Tiahrt. HOPEFULLY not for much longer. He is a vile, dismissive, distant pawn of money.”
So true, JR. But Betts needs to get off his ass and campaign and raise money. Otherwise? Stick a fork in him too.
I love Donald. I’d march into hell with him and for him. But, he’s got to POUNCE on this anti republican, anti incumbent mood. He’s going to have to work for this election. It isnt going to fall into his lap.
As CF would say, “I fret”. He’s a notoriously bad campaigner. But a great office holder. Just the opposite of good hair tfart.
GO DONALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just unbelievable . . .
Saw the YouTube, Capn. Are you folks on the left ENTIRELY devoid of a sense of humor? Do you take EVERYTHING seriously?
No wonder you’re so miserable . . .
Oh hell, the phelps kkklan probably did it themselves to get sympathy after the latest court rulings against them.
Or maybe phreddy just overheated during one of his “god hates fags” rants.
In any event, it will hopefully be nowhere near the fire and heat they’ll feel when they join lanny fabrizius in hell.
I’m thinkin’ Dante’s ninth will be too cool for all of them!
Um, the post at 11:08 a.m…………………
What the f–k am I supposed to do with THAT caustic statement?
I am a responsible individual; I do my job (well); I care about others and don’t allow myself a “sick day” when I feel like Coulter warmed over.
I’ve seen doctors; I’ve seen doctors’ nurses and doctors’ assistants. Just like millions of other folks. I could probably see the inside of my a$$ if I wanted to pay enough dough; but that wouldn’t be aesthetic, would it?
Foot in mouth disease. It’s a terrible thing to have.
Tiahrt ran a TV ad in ‘94 in which then Rep. Dan Glickman’s face morphed into Clinton’s and back again several times.
Betts should run the same ad with Tiahrt’s face morphing into Bush’s.
Capn, Been to Sturgis, been to buffalo chip, seen the pageant, half the women on the campground are topless, lots beer and weed too. all quite fun better than mardi gras imho and beads have the same purpose
FF, I didnt mean to imply that you abused drugs. Just the use of painkillers, otc or otherwise, will do your liver in. I’m sorry about your sis. Liver cancer frequently strikes with no apparant reason. And it’s a horrible death. My grandfather on my Mom’s side died that way.
Take care of yourself girl.
I’m not seeing any caustic post at 11:08, Film Fan . . .
“Capn, Been to Sturgis, been to buffalo chip, seen the pageant, half the women on the campground are topless, lots beer and weed too. all quite fun better than mardi gras imho and beads have the same purpose”
Hmmmmm…
Now THAT sounds like heaven. Maybe I should celebrate today by shopping for a Harley?
Naw. My legs are so short the bike is on the ground before my foot hits it….
…but I could make a hotel reservation for next year!
heheheheheheheh!
I heard from a knowledgable source that liver cancer is usually the result of cancer starting somewhere else.
They don’t seem to use transplants for it.
>Any way, it doesn’t answer the question, “if God doesn’t lie, why did he say the day you eat of the fruit, you shall die and then they didn’t die?<
Capn.. since noone else answered that I saw: They did “die”. It is talking about the “second death” or spiritual death, which is separation from God.
TomP–
So you’re saying that McCain was engaging in and celebrating an event of illegal nudity, widespread pot smoking, and public drinking and intoxication?
Wow.
Just imagine the press if Obama had done that . . .
Geez FF, I’m sorry if this offended you.
“Like I dont know you’ve seen more white coats in a lifetime than we can count…”
I only meant that with your history of medical problems, I know you do go to the doc when needed. I meant nothing more. Sorry if it landed wrong on you. I certainly meant no offense.
Folks out here are notorious for not going to the doc when needed. I was just urging you to go, and realized that you, like me, had probably seen all the “white” coats you wanted for a lifetime.
My apologies. I’m on your side.
“So you’re saying that McCain was engaging in and celebrating an event of illegal nudity, widespread pot smoking, and public drinking and intoxication?”
Like the Judds’ said:
“grandpa, tell me ’bout the good ol’ days”
Liver cancer is bad; my dad died of it at a young age. FF, I also am not accusing you of any abuse of pharmaceuticals, but if you have taken a lot of acetaminophen over time, this could have affected your liver in a bad way.
How DID I miss this?
Oh yeah, the media.
”
By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press Writer Mon Mar 17, 1:57 AM ET
WASHINGTON - Arrogance is a common vice in presidential politics. A person must be more than a little self-important to wake up one day and say, “I belong in the Oval Office.”
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But there’s a line smart politicians don’t cross — somewhere between “I’m qualified to be president” and “I’m born to be president.” Wherever it lies, Barack Obama better watch his step.
He’s bordering on arrogance.
The dictionary defines the word as an “offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.” Obama may not be offensive or overbearing, but he can be a bit too cocky for his own good.
The freshman senator told reporters in July that he would overcome Hillary Rodham Clinton’s lead in the polls because “to know me is to love me.”
A few months later, he said, “Every place is Barack Obama country once Barack Obama’s been there.”
True, there’s a certain amount of tongue-in-cheekiness to such remarks — almost as if Obama doesn’t want to take his adoring crowds and political ascent too seriously. He was surely kidding when he told supporters in January that by the time he was done speaking “a light will shine down from somewhere.”
“It will light upon you,” he continued. “You will experience an epiphany. And you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack. I have to do it.”
But both Obama and his wife, Michelle, ooze a sense of entitlement.
“Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics,” his wife said a few weeks ago, adding that Americans will get only one chance to elect him.
Obama’s cool self-confidence got him into trouble in New Hampshire when he said Clinton was “likable enough,” faint praise that grated on female votes who didn’t appreciate him condescending to the former first lady.
Privately, aides and associates of Obama tell stories about a boss who can be aloof and ungracious. He holds firmly to views and doesn’t like to be challenged, traits that President Bush packaged and sold under the “resolute” brand in the 2004 election. For Bush, those qualities proved to be dangerous in a time of war and in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina….snip”
Who the HELL does this guy think he is?
No epiphanies here.
Hee hee heeeeee….
And for the record FF, In my misspent youth, I probably abused more drugs over a longer period of time that you ever THOUGHT about doing.
Me questioning someone else’s use of drugs, legal or illegal, would very much be the pot calling the kettle black.
Pun intended…
That is a very good answer, Samkan.
I could see a strong case for that interpretave reading.
However, the problem for the Biblical literalists (fundamentalists) is that they “do not interprete the Bible, they just read it and believe it.”
So, if it doesn’t “say it,” they can’t “believe it.”
Hence, God lied to Adam according to the principles that the fundamentalists use–God said one thing, and He did another.
This of course ignores the concurrent problem of how and why an omniscient God would tell Adam not to eat the fruit, warning him with immediate death, while knowing full well that Adam will eat the fruit.
Literalists can’t explain this. They just attack one’s motives and walk off in a self-righteous huff . . .
“Better living through chemistry” should be on our license plates out here near Hays. You know what I mean.
So now, grandma’s gonna go to town and celebrate and do a little political grave dancing by having a burger and shake at Clelands.
I agree Linda. Getting old sucks. It aint for sissies
I agree with the comments made by Linda, Ben, and kfg.
“Capn.. since noone else answered that I saw: They did “die”. It is talking about the “second death” or spiritual death, which is separation from God.”
No it isn’t.
Free will Capn. It is what we have, as did Adam. I grant you it is a complicated, difficult concept in the context of an all-knowing God. But you make it more difficult than it needs to be when you begin at unbelief.
“But both Obama and his wife, Michelle, ooze a sense of entitlement.”
Funny . . . that’s exactly the vibe I got from the Clintons’.
Hillary didn’t ask for my vote. She didn’t give me a reason for my vote. She just assumed the throne, floating along so “above it all.”
Yeah, well, she can always go back to her day job of sitting on Wal-Mart’s board of directors . . .
Fortunately, my sister didn’t suffer - and was not ill for long. Exactly one month after her diagnosis, she peacefully passed away (November 2005) with her devoted husband at her side. Her husband conveyed to us that, from the moment she entered the hospital, she was availed of a morphine drip. Without this remedy, she would have suffered wretchedly.
Yes, I did take Vicodin for one year when I didn’t need it. I didn’t take any more than the allotted daily dosage; however, I took it all at one time (in the evenings) because of the euphoria-inducing properties therein. Yes, I remember thinking to myself, “Could I be damaging my liver?”
I then remember thinking to myself, “I don’t care.”
That, to be sure, is the danger of opiate drug usage, even with a prescription. The euphoria is so pervasive that it obliterates reason.
But there’s no euphoria to be had with Lortab. Just ain’t happening. As regards my liver, I may have dodged a bullet; I may have damaged it. I don’t really know.
I just know this: I can’t understand why my late sister died and Big, Bad Bertha is still kickin’. She had millions of friends on every continent; her hospital in Hawaii had to MOVE HER TO A SUITE to accommodate all the flowers, gifts, e-mails, and well wishes.
When Vicodin Vivienne (that would be me) has been hospitalized, I didn’t get a single card, letter, “Get Well Soon” adomonition or change of venue to handle the underflow of ministrations. She left a grieving husband who loved her profoundly. I left an indifferent, newly-disabled ex-impregnator who probably doesn’t even remember how many underage females he knocked up and left in his wake.
This s–t makes no sense to me. If I’ve damaged my liver, so be it. When the time comes, strap me to one of those morphine drips, shove U2’s “October” CD into that stereo and let me go out with a hosanna. Not a bang - that would be irony upon irony……..
Thanks, outlander.
You prove my point. You offer no explanation, just a cheap-shot at my motives.
You want to make this about how much of a Christian I am.
And I’m not playing that game.
My position is that the fundamentalist approach to The Bible is nonsensical. It leads to idiocies that the universe is only 10 thousand years old.
So far, all the argumentative points are on my side, simply because your side has nothin’.
“Free will Capn. It is what we have, as did Adam. I grant you it is a complicated, difficult concept in the context of an all-knowing God. But you make it more difficult than it needs to be when you begin at unbelief.”
Then god doesn’t have a plan and doesn’t interfere in the actions and decisions of people. That would mean the Bible is wrong, but you are referencing the Bible. A catch-22.
No Maggie. What it means it is that it is way over your head.
Doug…
You are welcome to your opinions… even when they are wrong. What I said is correct.
“You are welcome to your opinions… even when they are wrong. What I said is correct.”
The Bible says nothing of what you claim it says. If you could point me to where it says Adam will certainly spiritually die then you’ll have a point. Until then you are just re-writing what’s in the Bible.
It’s simple, just give me the quote. It’s pretty easy, right in the first book.
Hey! I’ve got a warm, fuzzy offering to one of our post-ers who has deigned to grace us with his presence today.
Earlier this week, I was perched at Cici’s Pizza on South Seneca after work, idly thumbing through the latest issue of US magazine. When I got to page 11 of the colorful publication, I stopped mid-bite.
“What in the HELLOLA is —- doing in this magazine?” I asked myself. “He wouldn’t date Drew Barrymore! She sounds like something Timothy Leary brought up after an all-night bacchanale outside the Watergate headquarters!” I snorted arrogantly. “What in the WORLD would they talk about!”
Then again, it’s not my place to ruminate about this arcana. But anyone who can (momentarily) keep me from pigging out probably deserves props…..
Well, samkan, it is an interpretation, isn’t it?
I mean if God meant “spirtual death,” why didn’t he say it?
If you tell a mental child like Adam was according to the story, “don’t eat this or you’ll die,” it is a stretch to see that dying as spiritual only.
Still, it’s better than what Nathan and Hank and outlander and Regular got, which is nothin’.
Nudity isn’t illegal in the campground private property I think. and the cops mostly leave the bikers alone execpt for the most flagrant violations 1000’s of bikers vs dozs of cops and the fact that the 100,000 bikers put a lot of money into the tiny town of sturgis and South dakota
The Crapn doesn’t want any answers, he already has an answer formulated.
Crapn is a dead-ender, he has no way out but his own mind.
“No Maggie. What it means it is that it is way over your head.”
Nope, you just can’t argue a position that is inherently flawed. If you completely disregard your theology then you can advocate for free will. Until then….
If that’s what you believe Capn, fine. No one is forcing anything on you. Please give us the same courtesy.
I was just stating my perception of the obvious reason that you have these difficulties with Bible interpretation. The more you come at it from the secular worlds’ viewpoint, the more difficult it will be.
Maggie is a perfect example.
And not only that, when one reads Genesis, one does not get a picture of the “omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent” God that He later became in Paul’s time.
After Adam eats the fruit, God hurriedly kicks them out so that they can’t eat from the “tree of life” and live forever like a god.
He angrily condemns man and the serpent for all eternity, kind of a funny reaction for a being who supposedly knows what will happen before it happens.
“Who told you that you are naked?” He thunders at Adam. Why bother to ask, if one already knows?
>This of course ignores the concurrent problem of how and why an omniscient God would tell Adam not to eat the fruit, warning him with immediate death, while knowing full well that Adam will eat the fruit.<
Capn.. Adam was given a choice, and an omiscient God, knowing that Adam would sin, began His divine and wonderful plan of Salvation which gives Him all the credit and all the glory. Man and God reconciled for eternity, which was the original intent, making God’s decision perfectly logical.
“If you tell a mental child like Adam was according to the story, “don’t eat this or you’ll die,” it is a stretch to see that dying as spiritual only.”
Samkan insists that eating a magical fruit will impair one’s soul. According to the myth Adam was built without knowledge of good and evil but was expected to make moral choices without the correct programming. It’s like asking a blind man to explain the colors of the rainbow without ever having seen them.
Naturally God would have known this. He specifically put a couple of trees in the Garden knowing full well the implications of doing so and providing the knowledgeable serpent to influence Adam. But it’s a silly child’s tale not meant to be taken literally.
Sometimes your body just doesn’t respond the same way after a period of time. It could be a true allergy to hydrocodone- an allergy doesn’t appear the first time around because your body hasn’t built the antibodies to it yet. Its the SECOND time that you have to worry about.
THere is no difference between the active ingredients in Lortab, Vicodin, and Hydrocodone…they’re all the same.
It is likely that its just a medication that you cannot tolerate. I can’t tolerate Percocet. Makes me sick as a dog. I can handle Lortab just fine.
Yeah pain just sucks. There isn’t need to be so stoic. You can feel better or you can feel worse.
As far as KFG’s celebration, I’m happy for you. Beemer, that’s not good though.
I was also hoping Kline would have won the election. That would make a democrat the shoo in.
I also agree, Boyda’s gone. Might as well not spend hte money. I even like Jenkins.
OH and I was wrong about ole Brungardt, he kept his seat afterall, by a smidge. At least the fundy freak didn’t take over.
And Linda, dear Linda..look at those on the board who are supportive of Peterjohn and what does that tell you.
Slattery is going to have to get some big money if he’s going to beat Roberts. We should help him do that. Roberts needs to go.
outlander says that I have an “obvious reason that you have these difficulties with Bible interpretation.”
Wrong.
I have no problem with Genesis whatsoever. It’s perfectly consistent with the world-view of the time it originated, probably around 5,000 BC and several millenia later.
It is a creation-myth (actually two stories redacted into one) intended to as Milton put it, “justify the ways of God to man.”
It is the literalists who as you say “have difficulties.”
The Crapn is boringly predictable today.
“Capn.. Adam was given a choice, and an omiscient God, knowing that Adam would sin, began His divine and wonderful plan of Salvation which gives Him all the credit and all the glory. Man and God reconciled for eternity, which was the original intent, making God’s decision perfectly logical.”
A couple of problems. First how did you determine omniscience without having more knowledge to know that God has omniscience? It’s an impossibility so you can’t make such a statement. Second, if this god has a plan then nature is deterministic and there is no free will so choice is just an illusion. Your theology is contradictory, therefore absurd.
correction: probably originating around 5,000 BC and written down several millenia later.
Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.
“Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.”
The Bible does say that women are worth half the value of a man. If the Christians on this board believe in the Bible then I’d like to hear them admit that they believe women are inferior to men.
Maggot Punk has it almost right: But it’s a silly child’s tale not meant to be taken literally.
It should not be taken literally. It’s absurd to take it literally.
But people of faith can and should take it seriously.
A danger with acetominophen: We have it in Lortab/Vicodin. We also have ot of course in Tylenol and its generics. But then we ALSE have it in many cold and allergy remedies. So, it is very easy to overdose on it without even thinking about it.
To make matters potentially worse - acetominophen is NOT considered an ‘interesting’ drug like, for example, the opiates. So, we likely don’t pay a lot of attention.
I would also be looking at other ‘uninteresting’ drugs like anti-inflammatory meds as a possible liver toxin. And, especially if you are in an agricultural area, pesticide or solvent exposure.
Good point Captain. There are children’s tales (like the Golden Compass), then there are silly tales like the Bible. Only an adult with a child’s mind would take them seriously. I shouldn’t say that though, a child naturally views them as fairy tales until they are brainwashed to believe they are true.
>I mean if God meant “spirtual death,” why didn’t he say it?<
Capn… A literal interpretation does not make sense. Physical death was a result of sin and therefore Adam would not have understood physical death before the fall.
Yes, and slaves should obey their masters.
See what happens . . . you read The Bible literally, and you turn into the American Taliban.
“Capn… A literal interpretation does not make sense. Physical death was a result of sin and therefore Adam would not have understood physical death before the fall.”
That makes sense. God created the Bible but we aren’t to listen to what he said but just make up our own meanings and attribute what we think to his guidance.
So, Samkan, you’re saying that Adam was immortal before he sinned, but sin made him mortal.
And that’s why God didn’t warn him not to eat from the Tree of Life, because he was already immortal.
But once he sinned and became mortal, he had to be prevented from eating from the tree of life?
Interesting. I’d like to hear more about that.
But you do see my point, don’t you? What you say above requires interpretation which the fundamentals claim they don’t do.
I still haven’t heard how the non-interpretating literalists can explain this paradox in which God seems to say one thing and do another.
one could also why god put the trees in the garden in the first, knowing what the result would be in adam eating it
Capn, became an atheist its much more simpler
“Why put the trees in the garden at all if you don’t want man to eat from them?”
Obviously, it is a test that man is intended to fail.
That is its moral value. Literally, it’s on a level with Iron John or Prometheus the Fire Bringer.
Doug,
You are welcome to your unbelief and it’s consequences. As for me, I will serve the Lord and nothing you can say will ever change that. You see, I did NOT learn about God as a child, I only learned to accept Him after years of unbelief and finally realizing the truth.
And no, nowhere in the Bible does God say that women are inferior to men.
God would give a calculus test to a three year old then punish him if he failed the test. After all, the child had a choice whether or not to fail. Is it God’s fault the child didn’t have proper knowledge to make adequate decisions?
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.”
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.”
And so on and so on. Such a learned biblical scholar such as Samkan is unaware that the Bible says women are inferior and filthier than men. Of course if he actually read the Bible then he wouldn’t be a believer. I suppose knowledge is the consequence of unbelief that he speaks of.
Doug,
Try INTERPRETING what you read…. good grief, I have read the Bible many more times than you I am positive of that! Women are different from men, not inferior. Men are to love women as Christ loved the church and gave his life for her!
Yes, it’s usually understood that people who are created to be subservient to others are really equals. I suppose it could work in other areas. We didn’t enslave Blacks because of a belief they were inferior, but we enslaved them because we loved them so much. Hmmm, I guess O.J. Simpson really Nicole because he loved her too much.
What a sorry, pathetic argument. It’s clear you don’t know anything about your bible or religion.
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.
And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.”
Looks like I was mistaken. Women are work 3/5 the value of a man, not half. I stand corrected.
>“Why put the trees in the garden at all if you don’t want man to eat from them?”<
Good question! “Why did God create woman when he knew that man would be unfaithful and commit adultery?” I don’t know! Other than God created the Garden for Him and his angels…. man came later. It could go on and on.. what believers must do is look at the long term goal of a perfect heaven, and look past the short term world that we screwed up in the first place. It’s all about choices.. God may know what our choice may be, but we still have to make them! If we make the right choices then in the end it all works out.
Doug…
Maybe someday God will give you knowledge to actually understand the meaning, and not just the words. Excuse me, but I have to leave to go serve some of those women who you say I believe are half my worth. You truly do not understand. Try reading how Christ lived, without that, the Old Testament can indeed be a sad story to read.
What do you know?
It is the so called Christian Sunday School teacher still mocking Christians, the Bible, and God.
Taking the Bible literally doesn’t mean you take every word literally like CapnAmerica’s strawman would have you believe.
Taking the Bible “literally” simply means you believe all of what the Bible says. Liberals like CapnAmerica get all excited when they can find something like this to say we should take it word for word without any room for interpretation because we take the Bible “literall.”
It is the classic strawman argument he sets up and then beats down.
There was no right answer for CapnAmerica and that is why I never answered the question last night.
No matter what he already had his strawman set up and ready to knock it down.
And then he cries because I was questioning his motives for asking it last night.
“Maybe someday God will give you knowledge to actually understand the meaning, and not just the words.”
Yes, because reading something quite clear about men being worth 50 shekels and women 30 shekels is so vague and metaphorical. Oh well, chalk another one up to Christian dishonesty (or is it incompetence?).
Oh, I forgot. The Christian’s 10th Commandment put women on the same level as cattle. The theme that women are the property of men is abundant throughout the Bible. Even when Noah was loading the Ark the female animals were the property of the male animals.
Too bad fundies don’t read there Bible, otherwise I wouldn’t need to point out their scripture to them.
Sam, thank you for your good grace, your kindness and loving example. We don’t get to see enough of that around here and it (YOU) shine!
Maggie, you are so boringly predictable. Back and forth to the atheist websites to gather arguments and scriptures he can misinterpret to try to convince yourself that God doesn’t exist.
Maggie, we don’t jump all over you here for your disbelief in an attempt to justify our belief. It would be nice to be afforded the same courtesy.
I do feel bad for you though. There is no such thing as a person who cannot be redeemed or someone who God is not drawing to Him. The invitation is always open.
Maggotpunk
Posted August 6, 2008 at 12:10 pm | Permalink
“Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.”
The Bible does say that women are worth half the value of a man. If the Christians on this board believe in the Bible then I’d like to hear them admit that they believe women are inferior to men.
———
I measure a person by their height. In general, women are shorter therefore measure less.
Maggotpunk,
In the New Testament we are told that as men we should love our wives as Christ loved the Church.
I have been going to church my whole life, at many different churches and denominations as well. I have read the Bible and have been studying the Bible for some time. I have yet to get a theme of women being less than men.
Care to explain where you do?
I would like to see what scripture you are using to say that women are to be treated badly or that they are property of men or that they are inferior.
“Nathaniel” on theology –
“Taking the Bible literally doesn’t mean you take every word literally…”
Thanks for clearing that up, boy.
I still think it is questionable that anyone would call themselves a Christian and then lump themselves in with Maggotpunk and others in mocking Christianity.
Let alone someone who claims to be a Sunday School Teacher.
Maggotpunk,
How about this instead: If the definition of taking the Bible literally is the one you are using, I don’t take the Bible literally.
“Maggie, we don’t jump all over you here for your disbelief in an attempt to justify our belief.”
——
I don’t know WHY you do the jumping, but I guarantee you and many others DO jump all over Maggotpunk and others who post something / anything you disagree with! At least if you are going to profess such a great deal of superiority in your faith based life, be honest.
I think the problem is that I believe the Bible is the literal word of God not that every little word should be taken literally.
The Bible is a collection of 66 books written by 40 Authors over 1500 years.
The Bible contains stories, history, prophecy, and many other things.
To say that every word must be taken literally is absurd. Which is exactly why what CapnAmerica is saying is absurd.
Linda,
When people post something false about Christianity, yes, we as Christians will disagree with it.
Meanwhile, Maggotpunk continues on his mockery of Christians and Christianity and the person you select to criticise is outlander?
Typical Linda.
Just as YOU disagree with what you see as false, I do too. So your posts are typically Linda too? hmmmm