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399 Comments
Congratulations to Karl Peterjohn for his strong win for Sedgwick County Commissioner.
Boo, Peterjohn was the WRONG choice. You’ll reap what you sow.
Karl Peterjohn is probably the most informed person in Sedgwick County and perhaps Kansas in regard to county and state finances. He is an information resource for government representatives of both political parties.
Karl also knows that taxes shouldn’t be wasted on unneeded, unwanted, unplanned projects such as the 1/2 billion dollar albatross downtown arena.
In reality, this election was a referendum on the white elephant downtown arena. Huge numbers of voters stood up and said “we told you, we don’t approve of that tremendously wasteful white elephant ice hockey downtown arena.”
It was an interesting win by Petterjohn. I think it tells us more than that he won the nomination. Do you think voters are fed-up? I think they are!
Do you think the school bond issue has a chance? I’m pretty sure they will need to quickly show us why we should trust them, why they can’t find ways to save, why spending additional money will impact our students in a positive way.
Hey JWink, Linda,
I voted for Peterjohn because I’m basically fed up with Winters. He’s promised us a fire station out here for the last 15 years. My property taxes increase every year. My homeowners insurance keeps going up too. 5.5 miles from the fire station south of Andale. With the way the county has built up over the years there’s no excuse for anyone to be greater than five miles from a fire station.
Peterjohn probably won’t get us one either but he might help a little on the damn property taxes.
This year I wasn’t registered as a Republican for the primary. An oversight I actually was disappointed to learn when I showed up at the polls. Could have sworn I made that change, must have just thought about it. Darn, I’m gettin’ old! Anyway, thanks for your vote Hank! It’s how I would have voted if I had done the smart thing in registering. Winters time should have ended!
Congratulations Carl Peterjohn!!!
I had almost completely lost faith in the common sense of the voting public to elect good, honest men and women with conservative fiscal values. Folks that realize the earners themselves can best decide what is best for them in how they spend their money and not some government taxing entity.
As ‘good a guy’ as Dave Unruh might be, I hope he is voted out of office for his support of increased taxes at every decision as not one of the things the taxpayer has funded, that should have been private development, has worked out financially and we are paying millions annually our our own money to fiance others businesses making them millionares on our money.
Another opportunity to get to some of the truth behind this most disastrous and corrupt bushco administration.
———
Siddiqui arrest brings attention to the ‘disappeared’ issue in Pakistan
KABUL, AFGHANISTAN — The high-profile arrest of a Pakistani woman suspected of Al Qaeda links casts a spotlight on an issue her nation’s fledgling civilian government has been slow to confront: years of official secrecy surrounding the fate of hundreds of people rounded up as terrorism suspects.
Some human rights activists believe that Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani-born neuroscientist who appeared Tuesday in federal district court in New York, was originally “disappeared” by Pakistani authorities five years ago, possibly at U.S. behest.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-disappeared6-2008aug06,0,3725428.story
JWink–
Karl Peterjohn?! Are you kidding me?
This guy is bought and paid for by the Billionaire Koch Bros.
The last thing we need is more “representation” for special interests in Wichita.
Hank–
How much has your mill levy gone up?
Most people’s taxes have increased because of increased appraisals.
Regular–
Thanks for attempting to explain the paradox of Genesis 2 in which God says “the day you eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, you shall surely die.”
Your answer was long, convoluted, rambling and ultimately unable to explain the paradox.
The most traditional (orthodox) view of Genesis boils the story down to disobedience: Adam disobeyed God. His fall from grace represents the eternal fall from grace of all humankind evermore.
So, one cannot choose to “eat of the fruit of good and evil” today because Adam already made that choice. It’s too late. We are all born into sin.
Our only hope and redemption is to appeal to the Son who was born and lived without sin. The Son of God redeems the inherent sin of the Father of Man.
That’s the traditional Christian view of Adam’s Fall. You can argue with it if you want, but if you do, you are arguing against theological positions that go back through ever major Christian theologian from Paul to Luther to Calvin to Bishop Spong.
Any way, it doesn’t answer the question, “if God doesn’t lie, why did he say the day you eat of the fruit, you shall die and then they didn’t die?
The election produced some interesting results. Just the other day Paul was remarking how the abortion issue is going to hurt pro-choicers. So what did we see?
The more extremist anti-choice candidates lost. Kline lost to an employee he fired (although his former employee is anti-choice). Gietzen lost to a fellow anti who even signed Gietzen’s anti-choice ad. A pro-choice Republicans (Jenkins) defeated anti-choice Republican Ryun.
So it can be said, as it was said for the last election, Kansans don’t like anti-choice extremists. These days if a candidate wants to lose then just emphasize how much of an anti you are. I’m thinking a lot of voters are getting turned off by the single issue candidates ever since Kline focused solely on a single issue much to the detriment of Kansas.
morning, capn. Is today the day you are going to enlighten us with your evidence to prove that all church shooters are CONs, as you so eloquently claimed on the 1st of this month? Or, are you going to be honest and admit you were just mouthing off and claiming things you want to believe?
Raptor–
I believe in evidence, in cause and effect.
When the CON said that he wanted to shoot up the church because it was full of liberals and he hates liberals, I believe him.
The burden of proof is on you to show that years of listening to right-wing hate-radio doesn’t have an impact on angry CONs like this Adkisson guy . . .
I love it when these guys get into office (Peterjohn). Now we can see whether they can help govern or simply snipe and obstruct.
I’d guess the turn-out of the more hard-core radical conservatives has placed many of the more extreme Republican candidates on the general election ballot.
And the mass of voters – the regular, normal voters, have pretty much had enough of the extremists.
This may bode well for more progressive and moderate candidates in te general election.
I suppose it was just “coincidence” that the anthrax letters targetted liberals like Leahy and Daschle . . . strongly indicating an another angry CON was behind it.
BTW, ABC News still hasn’t explained its breathless reportage that “highly placed sources” linked Saddam Hussein to the anthrax letters.
I think Americans have a right to know who was lying to the press to whip up war hysteria.
Turns out that Peterjohn writes for the “Heartland Institute,” a think tank that is described according to SourceWatch:
It campaigns against what it refers to as “junk science”; supports “common-sense environmentalism”, such as opposition to the the Kyoto protocol aimed at countering global warming and promoting genetically engineered crops and products; it supports the privatization of public services; it opposes tobacco control measure such as tobacco tax increases and denies the health effects of second-hand smoke; it supports the introduction of school vouchers . . .
*****
It has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding from Big Tobacco and the Charles Koch foundation is listed as a major donor.
the burden of proof is definitely not on me. YOU are the one that stated:
“On the other hand, people that shoot up churches are always CONs, aren’t they?”
You take one incident and expand it to all. That is erroneous application of ‘logic’. It would be similar to me learning of one bank robber driving a Ford, then claiming as fact that all people driving Fords are bank robbers.
Nice try at spin there, capn. You stated it as fact, lets see your proof or for once be honest and admit you were just spouting off.
btw, capn. I don’t remember seeing any evidence that nutjob was even a conservative–do yo uhave inside info on that one as well? Hating liberals is not proof of anything..he could be a communist. A Nazi. A Libertarian. There is no proof of much of anything..except he is a nut job with a gun.
Shall we start comparing lists there Raptor?
Ok, I’ll start.
Tim Mc Veigh, Dennis Rader.
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 9:15 am | Permalink
Raptor–
I believe in evidence, in cause and effect.
When the CON said that he wanted to shoot up the church because it was full of liberals and he hates liberals, I believe him.
The burden of proof is on you to show that years of listening to right-wing hate-radio doesn’t have an impact on angry CONs like this Adkisson guy .
———————-
In other words, the Crapn can make any statement he wants, however outlandish, and others must prove him wrong.
I say the Crapn wears pink panties and loves kissing sheep on the mouth.
Until proven wrong, the statement stands.
Karl Peterjohn lists no donors that I can find on his “Kansas Taxpayer’s Network” . . . why does he feel the need to hide them, one wonders?
I did find this telling diatribe however:
“Bob Corkins is an excellent choice as the next commissioner for education in Kansas. He is one of the top experts on school finance in this state with excellent legislative contacts and he has his own children in public schools. A dirty little secret is that some of the government school officials children are attending or have attended private schools.
“The government school establishment, the left wing Kansas press, the left wing elected officials have all responded with outrage to his appointment. The vile, hateful, and wildly inaccurate statements from tax ‘n spend legislators like Sen. John Vratil, Sen. Tony Hensley, Sen. Jean Schodorf, state school board member Bill Wagnon, and editorials in newspapers like the Wichita Eagle, the Lawrence Journal World, and the rest of the left-wing press in this state demonstrate their commitment to the state school monopoly.”
Karl Peterjohn
What, Regular?
No response to the Genesis 2 paradox?
Yup.
I’d go for the cheap shot if I were you too . . .
Course if I were you, I’d shave my beard and get a job . . . but, I digress . . .
Reg, you forgot to add that while the Capn’A is wearing the panties and kissing the sheep he is reading Moveon and listening to the song, “When I think about you, I touch myself.”
#
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 8:35 am | Permalink
Hank–
How much has your mill levy gone up?
Most people’s taxes have increased because of increased appraisals.
________________________________________________
It’s gone up several times over the years because of all the new schools in the Goddard scholl district. My appraised value has doubled in the last 20 years.
Raptor shows the state of CON ignorance with this tidbit: “I don’t remember seeing any evidence that nutjob was even a conservative–do yo uhave inside info on that one as well?”
The “inside information” I got was reading the local news articles that revealed the letter he had written in his car stating that he “hated liberals, that liberals were responsible for everything bad in this country” and that investigators found conservative books like Michael Savage’s “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” and several others.
As KSGrm repeatedly points out–if you CONs agree, no evidence is needed– if you disagee, no evidence is enough.
My appraised value doubled in ten years.
That’s what you get for fixing up your house.
Still, good schools mean good resale values for one’s house, so one can do well by doing good in that case.
Granted, Winters has been in office way too long.
But Peterjohn? The best candidate Garvey money could buy.
Good news in Johnson county, tho. Phil is gone, done in by the hand of the guy he fired. What goes around, etc.
Also good news in 2nd District. Maybe Ryun will finally get the hint that ain’t nobody wants him around anymore.
Dennis
Petterjohn hasn’t won the office yet, but I very much appreciate all you’ve pointed out, Capn! Thanks.
My pleasure, Linda.
I don’t know who the Dem is running against Peterjohn, but the man must be stopped from gaining power and inflicting more “I hate government” on us.
Marcey Gregory. Don’t know enough about her either. But I will find out!
Here is the astounding totality of information The Eagle gave us about this race. Maybe ValuesBoy wrote an especially long column of nothingness and there wasn’t room int he paper for more. Or something equally “important.”
http://www.kansas.com/224/story/477504.html
“It was an interesting win by Petterjohn. I think it tells us more than that he won the nomination. Do you think voters are fed-up? I think they are!”
I agree with that Linda. And it was the primary for the deficit loving republicans. He isnt in office yet.
However, the voters are in a decidedly anti incumbent mood. In Saline county, two incumbent county commishes were defeated.
And where is Kelly? I hope he’d preparing his donation to KEC. Jenkins is gonna mop the floor with boyda. All those repukes who couldnt stand ryun are going to get to home in November and vote republican.
Stick a fork in boyda. She’s done.
Oh, and check this out. A very popular incumbent out here barely held her seat. And she’s on the correct side of water issues, unlike her opponent.
KS House 118 (R)
Precincts Reporting:
69 of 69
Candidate Votes
Virginia B. Beamer 1853
Don Hineman 1848
Five freakin’ votes.
Yep. Incumbents are in for a rude awakening this fall. Too bad she has NO opposition from the democrats.
Thanks again Tim Peterson.
I have a question this fine morning; and it has diddley-s–t to do with Peterjohnsons, lib/con contretemps and/or Republican/Democrat debates.
No, no – this is far more important. At least to me.
I have a question for anyone who’s ever taken prescription painkillers to avoid self-immolation: Are generic Vicodin (hydrocodone) and generic Lortab (also named hydrocodone) the exact same medication? I’m getting one answer from the professional pharmacist dudes, and I’m deriving another answer from a 49-year-old songstress (me).
Nearly eight years ago, I was prescribed Vicodin for a severe back injury. I suffered absolutely no side effects: no nasty hangover, no nausea, no upchucking, no dumbing down of any senses that I could discern.
Fast-forward to 2008: I’m taking far less of the medication (Lortab this time, not the big “V”) – and suffering far more side effects. I’m only taking it sporadically; only when my back flares up.
Before any religionists accuse me of rampant hedonism: I’m exuding a great deal of self-discipline and breaking the pills in half and ingesting less than the prescribed dosage.
And I still deal with next-day fallout: lovely things like puking and loss of appetite and a heavy feeling in my chest (no, not the heavy feelings nestled behind my double-d’s, but something more ominous, probably). But I’m still going to work the next day; if I have to hold a plastic refuse bag under my chin, I do so.
Needless to say, this isn’t pleasant. The medical people tell me there’s no perceptible difference between the two meds. I say someone’s lying to me.
I’d say it’s a pretty serious lie. Like the lie my ex once told me – not only about “good girls not gittin’ pregnunt” but about, well…..
Something that a pic of an unclothed Arnold Schwarzenneger put the lie to most powerfully.
I don’t like being lied to – especially when it involves hurling my guts for one and all to see. Conversely, I have very, very happy memories of Vicodin. I have very euphoric memories of feeling like a baby chick wrapped in a blanket of warm milk, floating over the cosmos with nothing but love for everyone in the whole, widest WORLD.
Oh well – the Lortab does its job when the pain gets intense. It makes me feel comfy and sends me off to sleepy-bye suburbia. But I don’t like pukin’. And here I thought only Ann Coulter could induce that kind of horror…………
GENERIC NAME: HYDROCODONE/ACETAMINOPHEN – ORAL (hi-dro-CODE-own/ah-seet-ah-MIN-oh-fen)
BRAND NAME(S): Lorcet, Lortab, Norco, Vicodin
BRAND NAME(S): Lorcet, Lortab, Norco, Vicodin
http://www.medicinenet.com/hydrocodoneacetaminophen-oral/article.htm
Oh, and did I mention, the incumbent county commissioner here with the last name of fabrizius, and if you know western kansas, you know what THAT means…
LOST HIS ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
To an upstart woman of a certain age, Kendal Ottley.
Hehehehehehehehhehehehehe!
I’m taking a lot of personal satisfaction in this because he is the LAST of the mofo’s who destroyed my board and took my job to be voted OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heheheheh. HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEEEEEEEEEE!
Rot in hell you bassturd. I hear he has cancer, and yes, I know this makes me look bad, but I wish him a long, slow and painful death.
Couldnt happen to a nicer person.
Don’t mince words KFG, tell us what’s on your mind.
I’m no pharmacist, but my thoughts: as to the active ingredient, hydrocodone, the two are the same. The difference between the two likely is the “filler” if I may, the coating on the tabs, etc. It may well be that with the passage of time, that once which gave you no side effects now does, due to changes in body chemistry. That’s the best I can do, offering little meaningful, but offering my empathy for your current situation with the meds.
So… in Trego county anyway, the incumbent ass kicking continues.
hee hee hee hee heeeeeeee….
Ding dong the bassturds are gone. The LAST of the anti-woman, anti-gay bigots who were willing to sacrifice the county’s economy to make a point, are GONE!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now maybe this county and community can get back on the right track.
Yeah Reg! :)
Actually, even though she’s a conservative repub, Kendal and I have been friends for a very long time as we worked on political issues together more than twenty years ago.
She’s very smart, very level headed, cool as a cucumber, and listens well. She will do a GREAT job as county commissioner.
For the first time in a long time, I’m very proud of the voters in Trego county.
And in this county, the ONLY thing that saved Virginia’s butt was that she was on the right side of the Cedar Bluff issue, and her opponent was backed by the KLA, which is trying to destroy the state’s right to regulate water by the use of IGUCAs.
Hays and Russell, of course, want IGUCAs (intensive groundwater use control areas) to be gone, so they can drain the LAST drop out of the Smoky.
For once, it’s a good day to be me :)
Boyda should have switched parties and ran as Republican.
She’s a Democrat in name only, as far as I can tell.
Why is that Capn?
Is it because she didn’t jump on the bandwagon for Obama?
Filmfan:
My PDR says the two are identical in active ingredients; the Lortab comes in several levels, however, and which level you are getting may make a difference (that is, whether the hydrocodone component is 2.5, 5, 7.5, or 10mg. to go with the acetaminophen.
As noted above, the “inactive” ingredients may have something to do with the nausea. It may be something different in you, as well. I note the Vicodin was, you say, 8 years ago. We all change. Your diet may be somewhat different, your body chemistry, etc. If the nausea/side-effects are that serious, talk to your doctor and see if there is an alternative.
Wish you the best.
FFm when I had my knees replaced, there were very few painkillers I could take due to some lifelong liver problems I have. Vicodin has ALWAYS made me puke up my tonails. I’m wondering when the last time was you had your liver checked? Because anytime you have liver problems, acetaminophen is a problem.
The only thing I could take was a little jewel called Tramadal. Not sure if that is spelled right. It also goes by the name Ultram. I highly recommend it. And… it isnt very expensive either. I still take it during high gardening season.
It may not be strong enough for you, but I’m wondering, if you’ve taken lots of painkillers over the years, like I did, if it might not work for you.
Just a thought. I wish you painfree days. Chronic pain does things to you. You dont know how bad it is until the pain actually stops. Pmom and Reg and others here know what I mean.
Actually JR, the captain is right about boyda. I agree, but for probably different reasons.
She has, in the past, said she would support a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
She goes back and forth, flip flopping all the way on that issue, but she’s a con in progressive clothing.
Stick a fork in her flop floppin’ conservative ass. If there is a god, she’s done.
Hank – how do you like Marcie’s chances against Peterjohn this fall? Maybe she can get you that fire station – she is not so focused on downtown and recognizes that there is County outside of Wichita.
Correct, KSGrrl.
Her first interview on national tv was “the people support the Iraq War or they wouldn’t have voted for Bush in 04. I’m not going to stop it.”
She routinely tells the national party to “go to hell.”
As far as not jumping on Obama’s bandwagon, who exactly is she for?
Your guess is as good as mine.
With Dems like this, who needs an opposition party?
Oh man! I’m still doing the happy dance about lanny fabrizius going down in flames. Hell, I may have to go to town and celebrate!
Be sure and do the West Texas steering wheel greeting KFG.
You know, the lifting of the one finger to other drivers to wave “hi.”
If you’re feeling really good, you can do the finger wave and a head nod.
FilmFan – agree with much of the above. The two should be identical. The liver question is a good one – has something happened in 8 years to make you less tolerant?
Well,
Boyda is not my representative.
I’m stuck with Toad Tiahrt. HOPEFULLY not for much longer. He is a vile, dismissive, distant pawn of money.
But what I know about Boyda is she did break to the pressure to jump on board the Obama train wreck.
“…has something happened in 8 years to make you less tolerant?”
—
C’mon Ben! We’re close to the same age. AGE happened, eight years of it. I haven’t found many physical advantages to aging. Mental, emotional — YES, but physically, aging just sucks!
“With Dems like this, who needs an opposition party?”
That’s sorta the way I feel about Barack Obama.
I guess that’s my bad.
I didn’t sit in a room with him. The light did not hit me.
I never got the religion.
I STILL don’t find myself saying “I have to vote for Barack.”
Ya Ben. Taking pain killers, even OTC ones, especially with acetaminophen, will, over time, shred your liver even if you dont drink. And nausea is one of the signs of liver problems.
FF, get thyself to a doc! Like I dont know you’ve seen more white coats in a lifetime than we can count…
True linda – but I have found that some of my friends are having more problems with meds than others. I don’t seem to have any problem at all with them – not sure why.
But you are correct – aging sucks. Hair? What hair?
““With Dems like this, who needs an opposition party?”
That’s sorta the way I feel about Barack Obama.”
Me too Jr. And my little screed about boyda ought to put the lie to the lie that I support candidates based on their x or y chromosomes.
I saw that too, KSGrrl, and your point is duly noted.
Nice spin there capn. You ever going to provide any evidence of your claim as fact that all church shooters are CONs?
Obviously not. At least I will thank you for not going into vulgar juvenile mode like beber did when I asked for verification.
“She routinely tells the national party to “go to hell.”
Well, that’s not an all together bad thing. But she tends to do that on ALL progressive issues. The DLC and pelosi should love her.
“As far as not jumping on Obama’s bandwagon, who exactly is she for?
Your guess is as good as mine.”
I’m sure, like most of her “positions”, it changes from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute…
Speaking of Obama-
“The man in charge of recruiting Muslims to support Barack Obama resigned from the campaign on Monday — just nine days after being appointed — when an Internet newsletter revealed the man was on the board of an Islamic investment fund on which a fundamentalist imam also sits.”
hmmmm.
Raptor:
C’mon. Evidence is for fools. Capn works in sweeping, unsupportable generalizations. For all we know, all church shooters wore blue jeans. Or baseball caps. Or ate Cheerios that morning. Any one of them could just as likely be a causal relationship. But that wouldn’t serve the agenda . . .
You don’t really expect any real evidence, do you?
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I believe, if I’m not mistaken, that I had a complete blood work-up earlier this year. My late sister, however, did die of liver cancer in 2005, and no one on the planet knows how she contracted it. She did not drink; she did not take drugs; she was on a vegetarian/microbiotic diet; she did not and had never dallied with intravenous drug dalliers.
I have no history of drug abuse except for my usage of Vicodin in 2001. I did not overdose; I merely took it when I no longer needed it (a period of one year). I took it because I wanted it. And because my doctor had given me many, many nice refills.
I filled them.
Other than that, I cannot think of anything that’s changed, except for my sagging buttcheeks and aging countenance. I was treated for hyperthyroidism in 2004 and now take medication for hyPOthyroidism, but that’s a very common affliction and I can’t see why that would make a difference. But maybe it has made a difference.
Life is so strange: My wholly abstemious sister dies at an appallingly young age. Her Vicodin-popping younger sister has a clean bill of health, except for intermittent back problems. It doesn’t make a scintilla of sense.
Oh well, if I could make sense of this cold, cruel world – I’d be freakin’ sanctified.
Just unbelievable . . .
John McCain suggests his wife enter a Biker rally topless beauty contest in Sturgis, SD.
“I encouraged Cindy to compete,” McCain told the mostly male crowd as they whistled at hollered. “I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip.”
According to the Crisis Intervention Center for domestic abuse, located in a house across the street from the event site, the Buffalo Chip beauty contest, is often both topless and bottomless . . .
Farmgrl, someone or something set of bunch of Phelps property on fire too, somehow I dont see Topeka wasting too much time finding out who did it.
As for peterjohn at least he’ll be against spending 56 million on a bigger jail.
“I’m stuck with Toad Tiahrt. HOPEFULLY not for much longer. He is a vile, dismissive, distant pawn of money.”
So true, JR. But Betts needs to get off his ass and campaign and raise money. Otherwise? Stick a fork in him too.
I love Donald. I’d march into hell with him and for him. But, he’s got to POUNCE on this anti republican, anti incumbent mood. He’s going to have to work for this election. It isnt going to fall into his lap.
As CF would say, “I fret”. He’s a notoriously bad campaigner. But a great office holder. Just the opposite of good hair tfart.
GO DONALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just unbelievable . . .
Saw the YouTube, Capn. Are you folks on the left ENTIRELY devoid of a sense of humor? Do you take EVERYTHING seriously?
No wonder you’re so miserable . . .
Oh hell, the phelps kkklan probably did it themselves to get sympathy after the latest court rulings against them.
Or maybe phreddy just overheated during one of his “god hates fags” rants.
In any event, it will hopefully be nowhere near the fire and heat they’ll feel when they join lanny fabrizius in hell.
I’m thinkin’ Dante’s ninth will be too cool for all of them!
Um, the post at 11:08 a.m…………………
What the f–k am I supposed to do with THAT caustic statement?
I am a responsible individual; I do my job (well); I care about others and don’t allow myself a “sick day” when I feel like Coulter warmed over.
I’ve seen doctors; I’ve seen doctors’ nurses and doctors’ assistants. Just like millions of other folks. I could probably see the inside of my a$$ if I wanted to pay enough dough; but that wouldn’t be aesthetic, would it?
Foot in mouth disease. It’s a terrible thing to have.
Tiahrt ran a TV ad in ‘94 in which then Rep. Dan Glickman’s face morphed into Clinton’s and back again several times.
Betts should run the same ad with Tiahrt’s face morphing into Bush’s.
Capn, Been to Sturgis, been to buffalo chip, seen the pageant, half the women on the campground are topless, lots beer and weed too. all quite fun better than mardi gras imho and beads have the same purpose
FF, I didnt mean to imply that you abused drugs. Just the use of painkillers, otc or otherwise, will do your liver in. I’m sorry about your sis. Liver cancer frequently strikes with no apparant reason. And it’s a horrible death. My grandfather on my Mom’s side died that way.
Take care of yourself girl.
I’m not seeing any caustic post at 11:08, Film Fan . . .
“Capn, Been to Sturgis, been to buffalo chip, seen the pageant, half the women on the campground are topless, lots beer and weed too. all quite fun better than mardi gras imho and beads have the same purpose”
Hmmmmm…
Now THAT sounds like heaven. Maybe I should celebrate today by shopping for a Harley?
Naw. My legs are so short the bike is on the ground before my foot hits it….
…but I could make a hotel reservation for next year!
heheheheheheheh!
I heard from a knowledgable source that liver cancer is usually the result of cancer starting somewhere else.
They don’t seem to use transplants for it.
>Any way, it doesn’t answer the question, “if God doesn’t lie, why did he say the day you eat of the fruit, you shall die and then they didn’t die?<
Capn.. since noone else answered that I saw: They did “die”. It is talking about the “second death” or spiritual death, which is separation from God.
TomP–
So you’re saying that McCain was engaging in and celebrating an event of illegal nudity, widespread pot smoking, and public drinking and intoxication?
Wow.
Just imagine the press if Obama had done that . . .
Geez FF, I’m sorry if this offended you.
“Like I dont know you’ve seen more white coats in a lifetime than we can count…”
I only meant that with your history of medical problems, I know you do go to the doc when needed. I meant nothing more. Sorry if it landed wrong on you. I certainly meant no offense.
Folks out here are notorious for not going to the doc when needed. I was just urging you to go, and realized that you, like me, had probably seen all the “white” coats you wanted for a lifetime.
My apologies. I’m on your side.
“So you’re saying that McCain was engaging in and celebrating an event of illegal nudity, widespread pot smoking, and public drinking and intoxication?”
Like the Judds’ said:
“grandpa, tell me ’bout the good ol’ days”
Liver cancer is bad; my dad died of it at a young age. FF, I also am not accusing you of any abuse of pharmaceuticals, but if you have taken a lot of acetaminophen over time, this could have affected your liver in a bad way.
How DID I miss this?
Oh yeah, the media.
”
By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press Writer Mon Mar 17, 1:57 AM ET
WASHINGTON – Arrogance is a common vice in presidential politics. A person must be more than a little self-important to wake up one day and say, “I belong in the Oval Office.”
ADVERTISEMENT
But there’s a line smart politicians don’t cross — somewhere between “I’m qualified to be president” and “I’m born to be president.” Wherever it lies, Barack Obama better watch his step.
He’s bordering on arrogance.
The dictionary defines the word as an “offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.” Obama may not be offensive or overbearing, but he can be a bit too cocky for his own good.
The freshman senator told reporters in July that he would overcome Hillary Rodham Clinton’s lead in the polls because “to know me is to love me.”
A few months later, he said, “Every place is Barack Obama country once Barack Obama’s been there.”
True, there’s a certain amount of tongue-in-cheekiness to such remarks — almost as if Obama doesn’t want to take his adoring crowds and political ascent too seriously. He was surely kidding when he told supporters in January that by the time he was done speaking “a light will shine down from somewhere.”
“It will light upon you,” he continued. “You will experience an epiphany. And you will say to yourself, I have to vote for Barack. I have to do it.”
But both Obama and his wife, Michelle, ooze a sense of entitlement.
“Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics,” his wife said a few weeks ago, adding that Americans will get only one chance to elect him.
Obama’s cool self-confidence got him into trouble in New Hampshire when he said Clinton was “likable enough,” faint praise that grated on female votes who didn’t appreciate him condescending to the former first lady.
Privately, aides and associates of Obama tell stories about a boss who can be aloof and ungracious. He holds firmly to views and doesn’t like to be challenged, traits that President Bush packaged and sold under the “resolute” brand in the 2004 election. For Bush, those qualities proved to be dangerous in a time of war and in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina….snip”
Who the HELL does this guy think he is?
No epiphanies here.
Hee hee heeeeee….
And for the record FF, In my misspent youth, I probably abused more drugs over a longer period of time that you ever THOUGHT about doing.
Me questioning someone else’s use of drugs, legal or illegal, would very much be the pot calling the kettle black.
Pun intended…
That is a very good answer, Samkan.
I could see a strong case for that interpretave reading.
However, the problem for the Biblical literalists (fundamentalists) is that they “do not interprete the Bible, they just read it and believe it.”
So, if it doesn’t “say it,” they can’t “believe it.”
Hence, God lied to Adam according to the principles that the fundamentalists use–God said one thing, and He did another.
This of course ignores the concurrent problem of how and why an omniscient God would tell Adam not to eat the fruit, warning him with immediate death, while knowing full well that Adam will eat the fruit.
Literalists can’t explain this. They just attack one’s motives and walk off in a self-righteous huff . . .
“Better living through chemistry” should be on our license plates out here near Hays. You know what I mean.
So now, grandma’s gonna go to town and celebrate and do a little political grave dancing by having a burger and shake at Clelands.
I agree Linda. Getting old sucks. It aint for sissies :)
I agree with the comments made by Linda, Ben, and kfg.
“Capn.. since noone else answered that I saw: They did “die”. It is talking about the “second death” or spiritual death, which is separation from God.”
No it isn’t.
Free will Capn. It is what we have, as did Adam. I grant you it is a complicated, difficult concept in the context of an all-knowing God. But you make it more difficult than it needs to be when you begin at unbelief.
“But both Obama and his wife, Michelle, ooze a sense of entitlement.”
Funny . . . that’s exactly the vibe I got from the Clintons’.
Hillary didn’t ask for my vote. She didn’t give me a reason for my vote. She just assumed the throne, floating along so “above it all.”
Yeah, well, she can always go back to her day job of sitting on Wal-Mart’s board of directors . . .
Fortunately, my sister didn’t suffer – and was not ill for long. Exactly one month after her diagnosis, she peacefully passed away (November 2005) with her devoted husband at her side. Her husband conveyed to us that, from the moment she entered the hospital, she was availed of a morphine drip. Without this remedy, she would have suffered wretchedly.
Yes, I did take Vicodin for one year when I didn’t need it. I didn’t take any more than the allotted daily dosage; however, I took it all at one time (in the evenings) because of the euphoria-inducing properties therein. Yes, I remember thinking to myself, “Could I be damaging my liver?”
I then remember thinking to myself, “I don’t care.”
That, to be sure, is the danger of opiate drug usage, even with a prescription. The euphoria is so pervasive that it obliterates reason.
But there’s no euphoria to be had with Lortab. Just ain’t happening. As regards my liver, I may have dodged a bullet; I may have damaged it. I don’t really know.
I just know this: I can’t understand why my late sister died and Big, Bad Bertha is still kickin’. She had millions of friends on every continent; her hospital in Hawaii had to MOVE HER TO A SUITE to accommodate all the flowers, gifts, e-mails, and well wishes.
When Vicodin Vivienne (that would be me) has been hospitalized, I didn’t get a single card, letter, “Get Well Soon” adomonition or change of venue to handle the underflow of ministrations. She left a grieving husband who loved her profoundly. I left an indifferent, newly-disabled ex-impregnator who probably doesn’t even remember how many underage females he knocked up and left in his wake.
This s–t makes no sense to me. If I’ve damaged my liver, so be it. When the time comes, strap me to one of those morphine drips, shove U2’s “October” CD into that stereo and let me go out with a hosanna. Not a bang – that would be irony upon irony……..
Thanks, outlander.
You prove my point. You offer no explanation, just a cheap-shot at my motives.
You want to make this about how much of a Christian I am.
And I’m not playing that game.
My position is that the fundamentalist approach to The Bible is nonsensical. It leads to idiocies that the universe is only 10 thousand years old.
So far, all the argumentative points are on my side, simply because your side has nothin’.
“Free will Capn. It is what we have, as did Adam. I grant you it is a complicated, difficult concept in the context of an all-knowing God. But you make it more difficult than it needs to be when you begin at unbelief.”
Then god doesn’t have a plan and doesn’t interfere in the actions and decisions of people. That would mean the Bible is wrong, but you are referencing the Bible. A catch-22.
No Maggie. What it means it is that it is way over your head.
Doug…
You are welcome to your opinions… even when they are wrong. What I said is correct.
“You are welcome to your opinions… even when they are wrong. What I said is correct.”
The Bible says nothing of what you claim it says. If you could point me to where it says Adam will certainly spiritually die then you’ll have a point. Until then you are just re-writing what’s in the Bible.
It’s simple, just give me the quote. It’s pretty easy, right in the first book.
Hey! I’ve got a warm, fuzzy offering to one of our post-ers who has deigned to grace us with his presence today.
Earlier this week, I was perched at Cici’s Pizza on South Seneca after work, idly thumbing through the latest issue of US magazine. When I got to page 11 of the colorful publication, I stopped mid-bite.
“What in the HELLOLA is —- doing in this magazine?” I asked myself. “He wouldn’t date Drew Barrymore! She sounds like something Timothy Leary brought up after an all-night bacchanale outside the Watergate headquarters!” I snorted arrogantly. “What in the WORLD would they talk about!”
Then again, it’s not my place to ruminate about this arcana. But anyone who can (momentarily) keep me from pigging out probably deserves props…..
Well, samkan, it is an interpretation, isn’t it?
I mean if God meant “spirtual death,” why didn’t he say it?
If you tell a mental child like Adam was according to the story, “don’t eat this or you’ll die,” it is a stretch to see that dying as spiritual only.
Still, it’s better than what Nathan and Hank and outlander and Regular got, which is nothin’.
Nudity isn’t illegal in the campground private property I think. and the cops mostly leave the bikers alone execpt for the most flagrant violations 1000’s of bikers vs dozs of cops and the fact that the 100,000 bikers put a lot of money into the tiny town of sturgis and South dakota
The Crapn doesn’t want any answers, he already has an answer formulated.
Crapn is a dead-ender, he has no way out but his own mind.
“No Maggie. What it means it is that it is way over your head.”
Nope, you just can’t argue a position that is inherently flawed. If you completely disregard your theology then you can advocate for free will. Until then….
If that’s what you believe Capn, fine. No one is forcing anything on you. Please give us the same courtesy.
I was just stating my perception of the obvious reason that you have these difficulties with Bible interpretation. The more you come at it from the secular worlds’ viewpoint, the more difficult it will be.
Maggie is a perfect example.
And not only that, when one reads Genesis, one does not get a picture of the “omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent” God that He later became in Paul’s time.
After Adam eats the fruit, God hurriedly kicks them out so that they can’t eat from the “tree of life” and live forever like a god.
He angrily condemns man and the serpent for all eternity, kind of a funny reaction for a being who supposedly knows what will happen before it happens.
“Who told you that you are naked?” He thunders at Adam. Why bother to ask, if one already knows?
>This of course ignores the concurrent problem of how and why an omniscient God would tell Adam not to eat the fruit, warning him with immediate death, while knowing full well that Adam will eat the fruit.<
Capn.. Adam was given a choice, and an omiscient God, knowing that Adam would sin, began His divine and wonderful plan of Salvation which gives Him all the credit and all the glory. Man and God reconciled for eternity, which was the original intent, making God’s decision perfectly logical.
“If you tell a mental child like Adam was according to the story, “don’t eat this or you’ll die,” it is a stretch to see that dying as spiritual only.”
Samkan insists that eating a magical fruit will impair one’s soul. According to the myth Adam was built without knowledge of good and evil but was expected to make moral choices without the correct programming. It’s like asking a blind man to explain the colors of the rainbow without ever having seen them.
Naturally God would have known this. He specifically put a couple of trees in the Garden knowing full well the implications of doing so and providing the knowledgeable serpent to influence Adam. But it’s a silly child’s tale not meant to be taken literally.
Sometimes your body just doesn’t respond the same way after a period of time. It could be a true allergy to hydrocodone- an allergy doesn’t appear the first time around because your body hasn’t built the antibodies to it yet. Its the SECOND time that you have to worry about.
THere is no difference between the active ingredients in Lortab, Vicodin, and Hydrocodone…they’re all the same.
It is likely that its just a medication that you cannot tolerate. I can’t tolerate Percocet. Makes me sick as a dog. I can handle Lortab just fine.
Yeah pain just sucks. There isn’t need to be so stoic. You can feel better or you can feel worse.
As far as KFG’s celebration, I’m happy for you. Beemer, that’s not good though.
I was also hoping Kline would have won the election. That would make a democrat the shoo in.
I also agree, Boyda’s gone. Might as well not spend hte money. I even like Jenkins.
OH and I was wrong about ole Brungardt, he kept his seat afterall, by a smidge. At least the fundy freak didn’t take over.
And Linda, dear Linda..look at those on the board who are supportive of Peterjohn and what does that tell you.
Slattery is going to have to get some big money if he’s going to beat Roberts. We should help him do that. Roberts needs to go.
outlander says that I have an “obvious reason that you have these difficulties with Bible interpretation.”
Wrong.
I have no problem with Genesis whatsoever. It’s perfectly consistent with the world-view of the time it originated, probably around 5,000 BC and several millenia later.
It is a creation-myth (actually two stories redacted into one) intended to as Milton put it, “justify the ways of God to man.”
It is the literalists who as you say “have difficulties.”
The Crapn is boringly predictable today.
“Capn.. Adam was given a choice, and an omiscient God, knowing that Adam would sin, began His divine and wonderful plan of Salvation which gives Him all the credit and all the glory. Man and God reconciled for eternity, which was the original intent, making God’s decision perfectly logical.”
A couple of problems. First how did you determine omniscience without having more knowledge to know that God has omniscience? It’s an impossibility so you can’t make such a statement. Second, if this god has a plan then nature is deterministic and there is no free will so choice is just an illusion. Your theology is contradictory, therefore absurd.
correction: probably originating around 5,000 BC and written down several millenia later.
Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.
“Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.”
The Bible does say that women are worth half the value of a man. If the Christians on this board believe in the Bible then I’d like to hear them admit that they believe women are inferior to men.
Maggot Punk has it almost right: But it’s a silly child’s tale not meant to be taken literally.
It should not be taken literally. It’s absurd to take it literally.
But people of faith can and should take it seriously.
A danger with acetominophen: We have it in Lortab/Vicodin. We also have ot of course in Tylenol and its generics. But then we ALSE have it in many cold and allergy remedies. So, it is very easy to overdose on it without even thinking about it.
To make matters potentially worse – acetominophen is NOT considered an ‘interesting’ drug like, for example, the opiates. So, we likely don’t pay a lot of attention.
I would also be looking at other ‘uninteresting’ drugs like anti-inflammatory meds as a possible liver toxin. And, especially if you are in an agricultural area, pesticide or solvent exposure.
Good point Captain. There are children’s tales (like the Golden Compass), then there are silly tales like the Bible. Only an adult with a child’s mind would take them seriously. I shouldn’t say that though, a child naturally views them as fairy tales until they are brainwashed to believe they are true.
>I mean if God meant “spirtual death,” why didn’t he say it?<
Capn… A literal interpretation does not make sense. Physical death was a result of sin and therefore Adam would not have understood physical death before the fall.
Yes, and slaves should obey their masters.
See what happens . . . you read The Bible literally, and you turn into the American Taliban.
“Capn… A literal interpretation does not make sense. Physical death was a result of sin and therefore Adam would not have understood physical death before the fall.”
That makes sense. God created the Bible but we aren’t to listen to what he said but just make up our own meanings and attribute what we think to his guidance.
So, Samkan, you’re saying that Adam was immortal before he sinned, but sin made him mortal.
And that’s why God didn’t warn him not to eat from the Tree of Life, because he was already immortal.
But once he sinned and became mortal, he had to be prevented from eating from the tree of life?
Interesting. I’d like to hear more about that.
But you do see my point, don’t you? What you say above requires interpretation which the fundamentals claim they don’t do.
I still haven’t heard how the non-interpretating literalists can explain this paradox in which God seems to say one thing and do another.
one could also why god put the trees in the garden in the first, knowing what the result would be in adam eating it
Capn, became an atheist its much more simpler
“Why put the trees in the garden at all if you don’t want man to eat from them?”
Obviously, it is a test that man is intended to fail.
That is its moral value. Literally, it’s on a level with Iron John or Prometheus the Fire Bringer.
Doug,
You are welcome to your unbelief and it’s consequences. As for me, I will serve the Lord and nothing you can say will ever change that. You see, I did NOT learn about God as a child, I only learned to accept Him after years of unbelief and finally realizing the truth.
And no, nowhere in the Bible does God say that women are inferior to men.
God would give a calculus test to a three year old then punish him if he failed the test. After all, the child had a choice whether or not to fail. Is it God’s fault the child didn’t have proper knowledge to make adequate decisions?
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.”
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.”
And so on and so on. Such a learned biblical scholar such as Samkan is unaware that the Bible says women are inferior and filthier than men. Of course if he actually read the Bible then he wouldn’t be a believer. I suppose knowledge is the consequence of unbelief that he speaks of.
Doug,
Try INTERPRETING what you read…. good grief, I have read the Bible many more times than you I am positive of that! Women are different from men, not inferior. Men are to love women as Christ loved the church and gave his life for her!
Yes, it’s usually understood that people who are created to be subservient to others are really equals. I suppose it could work in other areas. We didn’t enslave Blacks because of a belief they were inferior, but we enslaved them because we loved them so much. Hmmm, I guess O.J. Simpson really Nicole because he loved her too much.
What a sorry, pathetic argument. It’s clear you don’t know anything about your bible or religion.
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.
And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.”
Looks like I was mistaken. Women are work 3/5 the value of a man, not half. I stand corrected.
>“Why put the trees in the garden at all if you don’t want man to eat from them?”<
Good question! “Why did God create woman when he knew that man would be unfaithful and commit adultery?” I don’t know! Other than God created the Garden for Him and his angels…. man came later. It could go on and on.. what believers must do is look at the long term goal of a perfect heaven, and look past the short term world that we screwed up in the first place. It’s all about choices.. God may know what our choice may be, but we still have to make them! If we make the right choices then in the end it all works out.
Doug…
Maybe someday God will give you knowledge to actually understand the meaning, and not just the words. Excuse me, but I have to leave to go serve some of those women who you say I believe are half my worth. You truly do not understand. Try reading how Christ lived, without that, the Old Testament can indeed be a sad story to read.
What do you know?
It is the so called Christian Sunday School teacher still mocking Christians, the Bible, and God.
Taking the Bible literally doesn’t mean you take every word literally like CapnAmerica’s strawman would have you believe.
Taking the Bible “literally” simply means you believe all of what the Bible says. Liberals like CapnAmerica get all excited when they can find something like this to say we should take it word for word without any room for interpretation because we take the Bible “literall.”
It is the classic strawman argument he sets up and then beats down.
There was no right answer for CapnAmerica and that is why I never answered the question last night.
No matter what he already had his strawman set up and ready to knock it down.
And then he cries because I was questioning his motives for asking it last night.
“Maybe someday God will give you knowledge to actually understand the meaning, and not just the words.”
Yes, because reading something quite clear about men being worth 50 shekels and women 30 shekels is so vague and metaphorical. Oh well, chalk another one up to Christian dishonesty (or is it incompetence?).
Oh, I forgot. The Christian’s 10th Commandment put women on the same level as cattle. The theme that women are the property of men is abundant throughout the Bible. Even when Noah was loading the Ark the female animals were the property of the male animals.
Too bad fundies don’t read there Bible, otherwise I wouldn’t need to point out their scripture to them.
Sam, thank you for your good grace, your kindness and loving example. We don’t get to see enough of that around here and it (YOU) shine!
Maggie, you are so boringly predictable. Back and forth to the atheist websites to gather arguments and scriptures he can misinterpret to try to convince yourself that God doesn’t exist.
Maggie, we don’t jump all over you here for your disbelief in an attempt to justify our belief. It would be nice to be afforded the same courtesy.
I do feel bad for you though. There is no such thing as a person who cannot be redeemed or someone who God is not drawing to Him. The invitation is always open.
Maggotpunk
Posted August 6, 2008 at 12:10 pm | Permalink
“Ah the bible and the christian’s excuse to why a woman must be inferior.”
The Bible does say that women are worth half the value of a man. If the Christians on this board believe in the Bible then I’d like to hear them admit that they believe women are inferior to men.
———
I measure a person by their height. In general, women are shorter therefore measure less.
Maggotpunk,
In the New Testament we are told that as men we should love our wives as Christ loved the Church.
I have been going to church my whole life, at many different churches and denominations as well. I have read the Bible and have been studying the Bible for some time. I have yet to get a theme of women being less than men.
Care to explain where you do?
I would like to see what scripture you are using to say that women are to be treated badly or that they are property of men or that they are inferior.
“Nathaniel” on theology –
“Taking the Bible literally doesn’t mean you take every word literally…”
Thanks for clearing that up, boy.
I still think it is questionable that anyone would call themselves a Christian and then lump themselves in with Maggotpunk and others in mocking Christianity.
Let alone someone who claims to be a Sunday School Teacher.
Maggotpunk,
How about this instead: If the definition of taking the Bible literally is the one you are using, I don’t take the Bible literally.
“Maggie, we don’t jump all over you here for your disbelief in an attempt to justify our belief.”
——
I don’t know WHY you do the jumping, but I guarantee you and many others DO jump all over Maggotpunk and others who post something / anything you disagree with! At least if you are going to profess such a great deal of superiority in your faith based life, be honest.
I think the problem is that I believe the Bible is the literal word of God not that every little word should be taken literally.
The Bible is a collection of 66 books written by 40 Authors over 1500 years.
The Bible contains stories, history, prophecy, and many other things.
To say that every word must be taken literally is absurd. Which is exactly why what CapnAmerica is saying is absurd.
Linda,
When people post something false about Christianity, yes, we as Christians will disagree with it.
Meanwhile, Maggotpunk continues on his mockery of Christians and Christianity and the person you select to criticise is outlander?
Typical Linda.
Just as YOU disagree with what you see as false, I do too. So your posts are typically Linda too? hmmmm
“Nathaniel” continues –
“I think the problem is that I believe the Bible is the literal word of God not that every little word should be taken literally.”
Yeah, that does pose a problem, boy.
So perhaps, boy, the word “literal” isn’t the word you want.
Linda,
You think things are false? That is news to me. I thought everything was just an opinion with you which could never be wrong.
*EYE ROLL*
MonkeyHawk,
I have no problem with the word at all. It is people like CapnAmerica that do.
No Nathan, it is YOU who believe there are opinions that are wrong, I know better!
But thanks for proving that if Nathan does something, it is fine and dandy and above criticism but if Linda does exactly the same thing…
Seems you have problems with the meanings of at least the words literal and opinion.
And, it is still true that my “opinion” is as good and as useless as any other.
Linda,
Opinions can be wrong. The fact that you are arguing with me only proves it!
LOL
And the fact that you don’t get that… well… nevermind.
I’ll bet linda is shorter than Nathan and Maggotpunk is just a hair taller than BlueJay who is the shortest of us all.
Nathan: I have found that it seems hardly ever worth it to debate folks bigoted against Christians. They are not there to learn or to dbate, but to tear down.
And you are correct, Linda obviously doesn’t get it. But she is full of it; as evidenced by her in explicable defense of the bigot MaggotPunked.
“Nathaniel” on the word “literal” –
“I have no problem with the word at all…”
Other than not understanding the meaning of the word, boy.
Outlander,
That is why I asked CapnAmerica last night why he was asking the question.
As is clearly shown today, he was only asking the question to mock people. It was a trap question involving his strawman.
He was just waiting for someone to try to answer it, regardless of what the answer was, so he could procede to beat his little strawman down.
All that from a self proclaimed Christian Sunday School Teacher.
Yet I am way out of line for ever daring to question his being a Christian.
“Other than God created the Garden for Him and his angels…. man came later.” [Samkan]
Ummmm… errrrr….. Not quite, Sam… That might be correct, except for the SECOND story in Genesis 2, says clearly, that the Man is created, BEFORE there was anything resembling the Garden… The Man is PLACED into the Garden, AFTER being made from the dust of the ground…
On the other hand, in Genesis 1, Male/Female are the crowning achievement of Creation… And nowhere does it say in Genesis 1, that this Creation is being done for “God and the Angels”
IF however, one argues that Angels were already present BEFORE “God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1:1) THEN, we need to ask just when DID Creation actually begin?? Genesis says nothing of this somewhat apocalyptic imagery…
Nathan, please show us where CapN has said he does not believe God created the heavens and the earth?? That IS what the Bible says, last time I checked… SO, CapN also believes what the Bible says, right??
He seems to not necessarily interpret it the way YOU interpret it… THAT is why your “literal” statement is being called into question… If it was only as simple as what you say, “I believe what the Bible says, but not literally every word.” (something close to that) Then there would be no disagreement here… since CapN and YOU both believe that “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.”
BTW, a disagreement about Genesis is hardly the basis for forming a statement (repeated frequently) that another is, or is not, a Christian… Rabbis have been arguing over Genesis for milennia…. but, they are still Jews… Christians have been arguing over Genesis for 2000 years… but they are still all Christians….
Chas,
It is not the mere disagreement which calls me to question CapnAemrica.
It is the manner in which he goes about the disagreement.
And no, neither you nor CapnAmerica believe what the Bible says in many places besides what is said in Genesis.
Amazing. People can argue for hours/months/years about religion/faith….but nobody will change anyone else’s mind. Belief/faith is personal. For someone to say “you have to have faith” is much like the Spanish Inquisition, just differing in intensity. In that case, it was “believe as I do or I will kill you”.
Here it is, “believe as I do or YOU are wrong”.
*sigh*….seems to me that discussing/arguing religion is an exercise in frustration.
“I’ll bet linda is shorter than Nathan and Maggotpunk is just a hair taller than BlueJay who is the shortest of us all.”
——
Of all these mentioned all I know for sure is I am shorter than BlueJay. Haven’t ever seen the others so have no idea.
But Nathan, we DO —- Just not the way YOU believe it!! And, that is wherein the problem lies… Our interpretations of Christianity differ…. and that is something that you SEEM to be able to NOT handle… at least not too well….
Happy Anniversary, Shrub!
Today marks seven years since the day President Bush received a President’s Daily Brief entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” At the time, Bush was vacationing at his ranch in Crawford, TX and stayed on vacation the rest of August 2001. Here’s how the administration reacted, according to the 9/11 Commission report:
– [President Bush] did not recall discussing the August 6 report with the Attorney General or whether Rice had done so. [p. 260]
— We have found no indication of any further discussion before September 11 among the President and his top advisers of the possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United States. DCI Tenet visited President Bush in Crawford, Texas, on August 17 and participated in the PDB briefings of the President between August 31 (after the President had returned to Washington) and September 10. But Tenet does not recall any discussions with the President of the domestic threat during this period. [p. 262]
The day after he received the memo, “Bush seemed carefree as he spoke about the books he was reading, the work he was doing on his nearby ranch, his love of hot-weather jogging, his golf game and his 55th birthday,” the Washington Post noted.
Today — 2,557 days later — Bin Laden still remains free and “determined to strike in U.S.”
CapN is fairly aggressive in his arguments… But, Nathan, so are YOU!! I mean, you just argued upthread, that CapN’s ideas on Genesis prove to you he isnt a Christian…
I dont think that is any basis for making such a determination…. I certainly cant find that in any of the Bibles I have at hand… Believing “X, Y, Z” about Genesis is not a determining factor for much of anything that has to do with Christianity…. so far as I can tell…
Chas,
You don’t just “interpret” things differently. You outright dismiss them.
You are a Religious Pluralist who doesn’t believe in the absolute divinity of Christ as the only savior who you must have faith in to be saved.
You are no Christian.
Chas,
That was not my argument at all.
See what I mean?? And now you do it AGAIN!!!
Cant you see the futility of your argument??
It is assinine to make such a statement….
Chas,
No it is not. You are assinine for claiming to be a Christian when you believe what you do.
lindainks55
Posted August 6, 2008 at 2:14 pm | Permalink
“I’ll bet linda is shorter than Nathan and Maggotpunk is just a hair taller than BlueJay who is the shortest of us all.”
——
Of all these mentioned all I know for sure is I am shorter than BlueJay. Haven’t ever seen the others so have no idea.
——
:) Linda, I was just joking about “the worth of women”. My mother was a very short woman, but could hold her own in about any situation, physical or mental. Trust me, I tangled with her many times in my youth and never came out the victor!
She was a loving but tough ole gal!
You are no Christian.
Maybe not, by your definition…
A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic[1] religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the New Testament[2] and interpreted by Christians to have been prophesied in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament[3].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian
I can’t freakin believe I am defending chas. What has the world come to?
SolDevVB,
Exactly. Jesus taught that he was the son of God and that only through faith in Him will you be saved.
Chas doesn’t believe that.
You are not defending Chas, merely adding another nail to the coffin.
What does that have to do with Genisis?
SolDevVB,
Nothing.
I thought Genesis was a mediocre band….didn’t care for them all that much.
So then a ‘Good Christian’ can not be determined by evaluating what is said in Genisis. Nuff said. That has been the argument.
Yeah but have you heard Disturbed’s version of ‘Land of Confusion’?
Nathaniel
Posted August 6, 2008 at 2:26 pm | Permalink
Chas,
That was not my argument at all.
===========================================
YES it was Nathan…. Towit, what you just now posted to ME >>>>
Nathaniel
Posted August 6, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
Chas,
You don’t just “interpret” things differently. You outright dismiss them.
You are a Religious Pluralist who doesn’t believe in the absolute divinity of Christ as the only savior who you must have faith in to be saved.
You are no Christian.
===========================================
Where have I ever said anything of the sort?? See, Nathan, that is YOUR interpretation of what I have said… But, it is NOT what I have said….
Latest air force tanker RFQ ranks survivability, maneuverability, utility beneath ability to offload fuel! Guess Boots in the Ground, are expendable. They might feel differently if they had to fly in it on missions.
SolDevVB,
When has that been the argument? At least it was never my argument.
SolDevVB
Posted August 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm | Permalink
Yeah but have you heard Disturbed’s version of ‘Land of Confusion’?
—-
Yes, it is better than the original.
OOOOOOOEEHH AAHHT AHT AHT!!! GRRRR!
Chas,
My argument here has never been that a disagreement on something in Genesis makes someone not a Christian.
What makes me question someone calling themselves a Christian is the fact that they routinely seek to mock Christianity, the Bible, and God and team up with those who are not Christians in doing so.
All the while asking questions which only serve to mock.
I like both versions of the song.
I know you were, Anti! I just liked the conversation you had going better than the other lines of communique.
I’m taller than Pre and PMom! About the same height as Mary Caruso. Shorter than Julie. FilmFan says she is tall.
I haven’t ever had the privilege of meeting farmgrrl. I really want to tho!
We don’t have as many females here. I’ve also never met Annie, but like to “read” her. There are the posters I have no idea whether they are a she or a he!
I would guess we could say no matter our height, the women of WEBlog could all pretty much hold their own too. ;-) I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but some of the male people around here don’t take the gloves off for anyone, and sometimes most especially for a female!
Hank,
If you are still around, is the woman running against Peterjohn the Democrat from Goddard you like? I recall you saying positive things about someone out there near the 2006 election, but cannot recall who that was.
Nathan, WHO is mocking Christianity, the Bible, and God?? I have seen no mockery…
Disturbed is killer! Awful dark, but I do love it.
AWK AWK
Chas,
Just like you never swear at posters and I was a liar for saying you did?
Sorry, not going down this road of stupidity with you.
You deny and obfuscate everything.
10,000 fists in the air —
SURVIVOR !!!!!
For all of you who can’t understand the lyrics of Disturbed, check out Richard Cheese’s version of Down with the Sickness for a little big band flavor.
It is more entertaining than watching Chas try to defend his own words.
Nathan, Show me or anybody else here where there has been any mockery of Christianity, or the Bible, or God??
How many times do people have to tell you that disagreements are not making mockery…. However, IF you consider that a mockery, then perhaps YOU are more of the problem than those who have disagreements….
I have never said what you claim I have said about Christianity…. But, you only say that, because you either disagree with what I have said, or you CHOOSE to disagree with it…
ANTI — I have no words here that NEED defending…. Wanna try again?? nimrod
Come on Chas, put a little Dick Cheese in your ears!
Chas,
CapnAmerica started asking that question last night for what reason?
He still has yet to say.
All he has done since is to belittle those that believe what the Bible says.
He called God a liar. The same God he claims to believe in no less.
If that is not mockery, then what is?
Chas,
You deny the divinity of Christ and do not believe that only through faith in Christ can someone be saved.
Care to prove otherwise by simply saying that you believe that only through Christ can someone be saved?
I am dead on about you. That is why you will never answer the question. You know it and I know it.
NO NATHAN… he did not… He said IF what is said to Adam and Eve is true, THEN because they did not DIE when they ate the fruit of the Tree… THEN God would be a liar…. He did NOT call God a liar….
Go back and check it out again….
His statement — BTW — would be accurate….
YOU are the one who said he called God a liar… NOT the CapN….
IF CapN were here now, I would point him to the Rabinnical Scholars, who discuss at great length, the subtleties of that particular verse, where God tells Adam and Eve, that “if you should eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, on that day you will surely die….”
There are thousands of years of notes from the Rabbinate on that entire section… And those notes are worth reading….
Chas,
CapnAmerica did call God a liar in this post:
CapnAmerica
Posted August 6, 2008 at 12:22 am | Permalink
I just follow the lesson plan they give me, Nathan.
BTW, how do explain God lying in Genesis 2?
Chas,
Why don’t you answer Nathan’s litmus test question? Just wondering.
Steven,
I should carefully word it so he can’t slip past it like last time….
Do you, Chas, believe that only through faith in Christ can someone be saved?
Nathan, you once again prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, that either (A) you dont read what I write here, or (B) you dont understand one single word I have said….
Either way, you keep tilting at giant windmills…. I have never said I do not believe in the divinity of Christ… I have said I will not answer your diminuative question about that subject….
And I continue to make that statement….
I have ALSO said that for someone who is NOT a Christian, your question is a moot point…. as it doesnt pertain to THEIR FAITH…. which they have just as much right to believe, as you and I have a right to ours….
Now, THAT is what I have said, and said repeatedly….
YOU choose to put words into what I have said…. And that makes YOU the one whose motives are questionable….
Here we go again Nathaniel: Not every word is literally true in the Bible. Finally you come right out and say it.
The question still remains: If you think that you know what is to be taken literal. (such as it is literally true that Jesus’ Death forgave sins)
Then:
How is your methodology right when others may not take that belief literally as you obviously do. When you Finally answer that without some deflect, then you will speak with authority on the matter of who is a Christian and who is not.
Until then Nathaniel, thank you for sharing your opinion.
Steven, Nathan only asks the question, in order to attempt to paint me into a religious corner… And that is why I refuse to answer his question…. Ok??
I think you guys need a new religion; you’ve argued this one to death on numerous occasion with this constant, ongoing circular argument.
Do heathens have to put up with this ?
Nathan, God IS lying IF you disregard all of what I just made reference to in the writings of the Rabbinate over several thousands of years… And that is ALSO what the CapN is saying….
He is also calling your “literalism” into question… i.e., just how Literal do you want to make it?? etc, etc.
Chas,
I have never said that someone doesn’t have a “right” to believe what they do.
The problem is that you believe that anyone can believe anything they want to believe and they are still saved. That is not Christianity nor what a Christian believes.
If Christ is divine and only through faith in him can we be saved, then how do you propose that anything that someone else believes will also lead to salvation for them?
That is why you are a Religious Pluralist and not a Christian.
Gster —- YEP… if they happen to hang around with certain varieties of Christians… For other varieties of Christians, ehhhh not so much!! :-)
Nathan says:
“If Christ is divine and only through faith in him can we be saved, then how do you propose that anything that someone else believes will also lead to salvation for them?”
Steven —- this is the religious corner I mentioned previously…. See??
LLTVET,
Finally I have come out and said it? LOL. I have never thought otherwise.
It is only people like CapnAmerica who seek to set up their strawman arguments who do!
The Bible has stories, Jesus uses parables, not every thing said is “literal” and I have never claimed otherwise.
Chas,
And that is why you are not a Christian. It is not a “corner” it is simply what Christians believe.
Chas,
Did you mean “diminutive”?
I think that Nathan’s definition of being a Christian is pretty classic evangelical. To say you agree or disagree with such a definition doesn’t put you at some forensic disadvantage, does it?
Gster,
I have not brought up my faith or these discussions in a long time.
I made an agreement with CapnAmerica that I wouldn’t and he agreed he wouldn’t either.
He has broken that agreement many many times now.
I still have not been the one to break it.
The only time I have been commenting is when someone else brings it up.
Just like now, Chas didn’t have to get involved in this discussion either, yet he did. He was the one who took it this direction as well.
If they don’t want to talk about it then perhaps they should stop bringing it up.
Nathan, Soteriology is a huge, enormous field of theological study…. And it actually involves OTHER religions besides Christianity… Not to mention the hundreds of varieties of Christianity….
There simply isnt Blog space enough to devlve into such a wide variety of study….
For a NON-Christian, Salvation through Christ is null and void… without meaning…. much like what existed prior to the Creation…. (Unless Angels, etc., were already created — see my mention of such upthread)….
Your argument — when you include NON Christians, is totally meaningless to them…
There is nothing WRONG with religious pluralism… Religious pluralism is simply an acknowledgement that MANY religions exist in this world… and we are not all a part of all of those relgions…. nor should we be….
Chas
Posted August 6, 2008 at 3:33 pm | Permalink
Nathan says:
“If Christ is divine and only through faith in him can we be saved, then how do you propose that anything that someone else believes will also lead to salvation for them?”
Steven —- this is the religious corner I mentioned previously…. See??
**********
I would disagree with his conclusion here. I tend to think you would, too.
Steven,
Of course it does, for someone claiming to be a Christian and trying to be a Religious Plurlist at the same time!
And THAT my fellow blogger, does NOT make me any less of a Christian than YOU or anybody else who says, “I am a Christian”
JUST that statement alone is plenty to suffice…
Stop avoiding the question Nathaniel. Read my post again. Why are you right while he is wrong?
Just answer the question instead of looking for some nuance to save face against.
Chas,
My argument is not totally meaningless to non-Christians at all!
If they are to be saved and have relationship with Christ then someone has to tell them and help them.
The non-Christians are the ones who need to hear it the most!
Stop avoiding my question Nathaniel. Why are you right while he is wrong.
Or just say those magic 5 words and all will be well. “This is what I believe.”
No Nathaniel: You need to listen to us Non-Christians.
Yep Steven… you caught my typo, that I didnt see…. so sorry!!
LLTVET,
I am not avoiding any question at all nor seeking to save face.
Jesus own words and those of his are why Chas is wrong and I am right.
If you don’t believe anything the Bible says at all or think that anything in the Bible can simply be dismissed at your will then the entire discussion and question is meaningless anyway.
Nathan, if NON Christians are perfectly happy in their faith, then why would you want to upset their spiritual happiness?? If they WANT to explore Christianity, then by all means, talk to them…
LLTVET,
I do listen to non-Christians. I just don’t believe that what they believe is going to lead them to salvation nor is it the truth.
That is why I am a Christian. That is why Chas is not.
Chas,
Because as Christians we are called to sread the Gospels to others.
Earthly happiness doesn’t lead to eternal happiness.
Then tell me how your interpretation of the Bible is superior to Chas. Since you obviously think that you interpret correctly and he doesn’t?
Just realize that this is only your belief. It is not some inarguable axiom of reality. No matter how much you want it to be.
Nataniel,
Please explain how a “loving”god could let someone suffer the the effects of Alzheimers for 5 years and he wasn’t the only one that suffered,my whole family did. I used to believe in god and church but after seeing that I’ve come to the conclusion that religion is false hope and fairy tales
Nathan, dismissing something, and searching/seeking for the “root”, or “radical” nature of something are two quite different matters….
Just because YOU say it, doesnt make it true, anymore than if I say it, makes it true… It means you have reached ONE conclusion, and I have reached another one…
Right or Wrong??? Not for either one of us to say on that one…
And I am the one who has spent more than two thirds of my LIFE studying such things…
LLTVET,
I don’t think it has to do with “Interpretation” at all.
I agree completely, it is my belief. I am a Christian. My faith is Christianity. Chas can believe what ever he wants to, but he doesn’t get to call himself a Christian when he does.
Chas,
That is fine. You can reach whatever conclusion you would like to. I agree.
You just don’t get to call yourself a Christian when your conclusions are not that which Jesus and God have said.
The way I see that Nathaniel is what he believes and calls himself is really none of your damn buisness
Stop arguing and get back to work!!! Jesus, I have more important things to do than read this crap!
Why is theology, and the “rightness” or “wrongness” of same, even a topic here? This is pointless.
Let it go, everyone.
You used the term edict before. Meaning “this is a deal breaker if you don’t do this”
Apparantly Chas either doesn’t know the “deal breakers” in the Bible or is just thumbing his nose at them. Is there a 3rd alternative? I think not
You think you know what the Bible means and you have no more clue to it than the next guy. So why don’t you just show a little humility and realize that?
What he calls somebody else is my business freebird.
Still waiting to hear about that “loving ” god
How Can I Believe in God and Pain?
Firstly, let’s deal with the argument against God’s existence. Ravi Zacharias has dealt with this brilliantly in his book Can Man Live Without God. If you argue from the existence of evil to the non-existence of God, you are assuming the existence of an absolute moral law in order for your argument to work. But if there is such a law that would also mean that there is such a God, since He is the only one who could give us such a law. And if there is such a God to give us this law, then the argument itself is flawed, since you have had to assume the existence of God in order to argue that He doesn’t exist. It is an attempt to invoke the existence of an absolute moral law without invoking the existence of an absolute moral law giver, and it cannot be done.
http://www.rzim.org/GlobalElements/GFV/tabid/449/ArticleID/9758/CBModuleId/1133/Default.aspx
My Question is why is that? Are you putting yourself above other people. Wait, I got it’ you think you ARE god.
Nathan, I tell ya what… I will keep on calling myself a Christian… and you do the same… Now, I guess if you dont like that, then it would be YOUR problem…. NOT mine… AND, furthermore, it is not your place to keep coming on this Blog, and posting nearly every damn day that “Chas is no Christian” OR “CapN is no Christian” —-
Cause you know??? All you are saying is that you dont agree with us, because we wont sign on to your little “born again” card, or whatever it is you all use now days…
And you know what else??? I DONT REALLY CARE!!
You can believe anything you want to believe, and I will STILL be a Christian!!
Can you even POSSIBLY understand that???
Blessings ALL!!
So mote it be!!
Damn myself, I love you all!! Stop fighting and get on with it. I am testing your faith, not who is the best. I never said it would be easy, but the rewards are great.
Calling yourself something doesn’t make you that something.
If Chas called himself a Marine, yet never went to boot camp and never earned the title, I would say he was not a Marine.
Chas is attempting to call himself a Christian while rejecting the very things that Christians believe.
There maybe a god be its pretty obvious to me he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about pain and suffering,false hope and fairy tales
My question still is why is that any of your concern,You remind me of this administration,gotta have your nose in everyones buisnee
Chas,
I have stopped saying anything about you being a Christian or not a while ago. You were the one who interjected yourself into the discussion.
CapnAmerica was the one who started the discussion to begin with.
CapnAmerica has been the one to mock my father and I for what we believe when it was never part of the discussion.
I made a deal with CapnAmerica a while ago and I have lived up to my end of it even after he has not his.
Go play your little victim card somewhere else. I didn’t start this.
Nathan, PLEASE dont equate being a Marine, with being a Christian??? It doesnt make you look so good when you do something that foolish!!
Freebird,
Speaking of having your nose in everyones business, exactly why are you getting involved in this discussion then?
Be thankful for what you have Freebird. There will always be others that have more and others that have things far worse than you. Everything can be taken away so be thankful for today.
Chas,
I am not equating BEING a Marine with BEING a Christian.
I am equating the act of FALSELY CLAIMING to be a Marine with FALSELY CLAIMING to be a Christian.
We COULD turn that around, too….
Nathan…. How many years have you spent in a theological Seminary??? How many graduate level courses in Theology have you taken?? How many hours of Greek New Testament have you studied… How many years have you studied Biblical Anthropology?? Ancient Civilizations…. Comparative religions???
I really dont think you want to try going toe to toe with my curriculum vitae in Theology…. and History…. and Anthropology… and Biblical languages….
Do you???
You don’t get to decide which Christian claim is false Nathaniel.
You don’t know the Bible well enough. If you did, you would know that you didn’t get to make that decision.
Keep in mind…. That stuff I just mentioned is all BACKGROUND for four more years of Biblical Studies… Patristics…. Ecclesiology… Eschatology…. Soterioology…. Literary Criticism…. Redactive criticism…. Textual criticism…. etc., etc…
Chas,
And obviously never a class on how to set an example and be a leader?
LLTVET,
I am not attempting to say which Christian claim can and can’t be false.
The most basic truth to being a Christian is having faith in Christ and that only through Christ can someone be saved.
Without that, how can you claim to be a Christian?
If there are no standards for claiming to be a Christian then what is the point?
Would you argue that someone who believes in the Flying Spagetti monster who also calls themselves a Christian is a Christian simply because they say so?
Chas,
I don’t need to go toe to toe with your record of classes.
What is sad is that I have been tearing you apart in these theological discussions for over a year without half of the professional classes you claim to have had.
Oooops >>>>
“Soterioology” = Soteriology
Chas, you brag about a lot of sheepskin – all of which matters not one iota.
Let it go, all of you. This is not the place to discuss theology. Neither is this the attitude to discuss theology. Several of you are arguing and insisting on the “rightness” of a point of view in an area where “rightness” is objectively unknowable.
There is great enjoyment and value in exchanging ideas on theology, in the right environment, and with the right attitude. But this isn’t it. For anyone.
Let it go.
You just did it Nathaniel. Just then. You don’t get to decide the basic truths. How many times do you have to be told that?
The point is your faith. Not the inarguable reality.
If your asking me. I would be humble enough to say “this is what I believe and it isn’t some inarguable truth just because I believe it.”
You seem to have trouble with that part.
“Several of you are arguing and insisting on the “rightness” of a point of view in an area where “rightness” is objectively unknowable.”
Now, GMC… THAT is entirely my point…. :-D
“There’s a problem in this hardcore, left philosophy of Barack Obama that people keep dismissing. I think [Obama’s social policies] will destroy what’s left of the black family. Socialism doesn’t work. It doesn’t work for individuals, it doesn’t work for families and it doesn’t work for our society. Our society cannot coexist with socialism.”
. . . conservative commentator Star Parker, citing Obamanation’s disregard for human life and casting doubt on his commitment to his touted “Christianity” as well as to our self-governing Republic
Nathan contributes >>>>
“Would you argue that someone who believes in the Flying Spagetti monster who also calls themselves a Christian is a Christian simply because they say so?”
Now, aint that just soo cute???
I dont think that one has even come up before… but might be interesting….
LLTVET,
I am not deciding the basic truths, what God has told us and what Jesus has told us have given us these basic truths.
If you don’t want to believe them fine. I am not saying you have to believe them, well at least not if you want to be saved.
However, calling yourself a Christian does mean something.
There must be some standard for doing so or the name is meaningless.
Just like if everyone went around calling themselves Marines just because and there was no set standard for doing so then what would be the point?
GMC70,
If you are using the Bible in a discussion on Christianity then “rightness” is objectively knowable.
Hey Steven,
Marci Gregory. Nice lady, current mayor of Goddard.
To be honest I don’t know how she’s stacking up as mayor, hard to screw mayor of Goddard up.
As far as who I’ll vote for in November, I’m a one issue voter. I want a fire station. Marci knows that. I’m not sure Peterjohn gives a damn.
If I voted today, I’d vote for Marci. I’m just glad that Winters is gone.
Many people can call themselves Marines. Many people can call themselves NonCommissioned Officers. It didn’t diminish my title of Non-Commissioned Officer.
Does this somehow diminish your christian name?
“Nathaniel” –
“GMC70″ is speaking to you, too.
You’ve got your thing with Jesus? Groovy.
But you don’t have any right, business, or position to judge others’ relationships with the Big Guy in the Sky.
Remember “Judgment is Mine!”? The next words are most certainly not “…sayeth ‘Nathaniel.’”
You don’t get a vote, now or on Judgment Day, as to the future of of “Chas’” immortal soul.
You should fall on your knees this moment and repent to God for attempting to usurp His role of Judge. You’ve made a mockery of His holy word by claiming “Literal doesn’t mean ‘literal,’ but what I “Nathaniel” choose to take literally.”
I don’t know a lot about God. But I do know you’re not Him. Stop judging people in His place. You might make him angry. You wouldn’t like it when He’s angry.
If you are using the Bible in a discussion on Christianity then “rightness” is objectively knowable.
Sigh. If only, Nathan, it was that simple. But it’s not.
Let it go. There is a time, and a place, and most importantly, an attitude for discussions of theology. This is not it.
Let it go.
LLTVET,
Of course people can call themselves anything they want to.
The point is that it doesn’t make it true.
You can call yourself a Marine, but unless you earned the title you are not really one.
You can call yourself a non-commisioned officer, but unless you were actually promoted to one you are not.
You can call yourself a Christian, but unless you actually believe the most basic things that a Christian does, you are not one.
However, if no one cares and we just let anyone and everyone call themselves a Marine and never ask for proof, then yes it does diminish the name.
Same thing for Christians.
GMC70,
Why don’t you just “let it go” in your discussions with Chas?
Nathan – I’m writing again to say that I don’t agree with MH much. But I agree on this:
You’ve got your thing with Jesus? Groovy.
But you don’t have any right, business, or position to judge others’ relationships with the Big Guy in the Sky.
Of course, MH then proceeds to get quite judgemental on his own. Oh well. Be that as it may, let it go, Nathan. Another time, another place, another attitude, perhaps. But here, now, let it go.
Vet it seems as if the entire blog has decided that Nathan can’t define what the bible and his faith in God tell him makes a person a Christian.
———-
John 14:6 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
———————-
This is a deeply held belief of Christians. No apologies and no arguments from me. Chas throws his degrees out as a shield when in reality they mean absolutely nothing in what Nathan is saying.
I think it has been discussed enough and will just say each person has the right to believe what they want to believe. They don’t have the right to change Christianity to fit their beliefs and lifestyles.
GMC70,
The problem is that I am not “judgeing” other peoples relationships with God here.
The point is Nathaniel. The standard of Marine and the Standard of NCO are established and accepted within the basis of the Military’s National Trust.
The standard of Christian is far more intangible and not defined the same by any church. They are only being defined within your beliefs. That is not an authority for the standard.
Now if you were to finally humble yourself enough to say. “I don’t believe that Chas is a Christian.” Then you wouldn’t be getting all of this rhetoric. Unless you just like all of this attention.
Whatever, Nathan. I tried. You’re on your own. enjoy.
LLTVET,
The standard of being a Christian is also pretty well established and accepted. At least within a super majority of Christians.
So when Chas says the things he says and believes the things he believes, I am well within reason to question him calling himself a Christian.
Now, if only you would be humble enough to simply say that you simply don’t believe that I am right about not believing that Chas is a Christian…
GMC70,
I was on my own, minus a few like okobserver and outlander, before you ever showed up to tell me to let it go.
Thanks for all your help. Whatever it was.
Fine. I will go first. I don’t believe you are right about not believing that Chas is a Christian.
Your turn.
“However, if no one cares and we just let anyone and everyone call themselves a Marine and never ask for proof, then yes it does diminish the name.
Same thing for Christians.”
Sigh…
The view from outside?
Ya gotta convince the unbelievers.
Audience of one here.
Nathan? You do not make me remotely interested in your faith. I’m just gonna guess you don’t do that faith any favors here.
I don’t believe that Chas is a Christian.
Thank you for sharing your Opinion Nathaniel.
I have been gone a couple of hours, and have not read the many new posts. But I wanted to support my thinking that a non-Christian as defined by Nathan could experience eternity. It is not written anywhere, but is a simple extrapolation.
Any deity smart enough to create heaven and earth, can figure out more than one way to do anything; can build more than one road to the same destination.
“What is sad is that I have been tearing you apart in these theological discussions.”
I’m sure Christ is real proud, too. Think GMC is correct, probably past time to end this fun.
Steven,
That is fine. What you believe is not what a Christian believes though.
LLTVET,
An opinion based on the fact that the things that Chas believes are not Christian.
kansas sam. Now there is a good advocate for his faith.
Steven,
Fair enough. I will stop posting on the subject for today.
Till the next time that CapnAmerica, Chas, Apophis, MonkeyHawk…etc…etc… brings it up once again and decides to mock my father and I as they always do.
I will go back to my agreement with CapnAmerica and continue to honor it even though he has not.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs with us Nathaniel.
“GMC70″ can’t restrain himself –
“… MH then proceeds to get quite judgemental[sic] on his own.”
Perhaps you can enlighten me how I have — as “Nathaniel” has — presumed to judge the quick and the dead.
It seems obvious, “GMC70,” that you agree with “the boy’s” politics but find yourself squirming when “the boy” reveals his whacked-out theology and incorporates those theological presumptions into his contributions to this forum. I don’t blame ya. I’d hate to be associated with “the boy” since he consistently proves himself to be not the brightest pencil in the deck.
Good luck in you effort to get “the boy” to back off his sacrilegious attempts to usurp God’s role as the ultimate judge of the quick and the dead. Poor ol’ “Nathaniel” is convinced he can do a better job of it than God.
We see it just about every night around here.
“Then you wouldn’t be getting all of this rhetoric. Unless you just like all of this attention.”
Bingo Bango bongo we have a winner.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs observer.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead…
And….
I am STILL a Christian….
(Ya gotta knowq the OLD SNL crew for this one)
Now Nathaniel: Why don’t you just thank Chas for sharing his belief. Here I will go first.
Thank you Chas for sharing your beliefs.
LLTVET,
I just said I was dropping the issue. Care to do the same?
Fair enought Nathaniel. It’s quitting time anyway. Have a nice evening everyone.
Sigh.
MH, it’s not about keeping score, or taking “sides.” While Nathan and I probably basicly agree on a lot of things, we may well disagree on others. So what. You and I probably agree on a few issues. Even Chas and I probably agree occasionally. I’ve never understood the need by so many here to divide the posters into “us” and “them” along some magical (and mostly mythical) line.
And while Chas’ “I know better because I got degrees” attitude is annoying, I was writing mostly for Nathan. Yes, I know it goes on nearly every night, and all parties to these pointless conversations are complicit in this.
I too have strong feelings and opinions on matters of theology. But I won’t get into them here; it serves no point. I enjoy talking theology – at the right time, with the right attitude. This forum, with the endless “gotcha” attitude, is not it.
It’s just time to let this topic go. It serves no purpose. Nathan, that means you. And yes, MH, in your own way, you are just as judgmental (OOOOOH! did I SPELL it right this time!!! Oh no!) as Nathan.
Nathan writes: “You are a Religious Pluralist who doesn’t believe in the absolute divinity of Christ as the only savior who you must have faith in to be saved.”
You know, Nathan, I got asked to perform at a youth service (not my regular church) by the youth pastor when I was on vacation a few weeks ago. She likes the 5-string banjo, which I play, and whenever I visit her town, she always hits me up to perform with her. We did “I’ll Fly Away” this time.
Anyway, she’s Southern Baptist like you and she’s going to seminary this fall. So . . . while we’re practising I ask her, what about that verse that “I am the way and the truth and the light”–do you think that means everyone who isn’t Christian is going to hell?
She says, “of course not–you can follow Jesus’s way without following the Christian religion.”
So I should give you her address at seminary and you can tell her that she’s not a Christian too . . .
Do you know what you are here parkay?
You are a commercial.
You never stand up for what you post.
You just throw it out there.
And you are not even a GOOD commercial.
Your big gripe and apparent reason to exist is doing something about abortion.
You’d LIKE to outlaw it.
Thing is?
That aint gonna happen.
You can bring your gory story commercials here everyday until the end of time. You can wish on a star.
It will not be so.
Now if you REALLY want to address abortion?
“Socialism doesn’t work. It doesn’t work for individuals, it doesn’t work for families and it doesn’t work for our society. Our society cannot coexist with socialism.”
It makes no sense to say something like that.
Socialism is part of the answer to abortion one way or the other.
BANNING abortion, as you would like, is ALSO socialism.
So since you are already comfortable with one form of it?
Why fight against another that has a better chance at actually solving your issue?
“There are thousands of years of notes from the Rabbinate on that entire section… And those notes are worth reading….”
Chas, do you have a link for that? I’d like to dig into this further.
As for Nathan’s “of course, I [Nathan] don’t take everything in the Bible literally.”
No, of course not. Just the part that you think proves the universe is only 10 thousand years old. There’s no Biblical foundation for that ridiculous, anti-science position, but you seem to think there is . . .
CapnAmerica,
You faith in God is anti-science as well.
CapN — It is in the Torah commentaries…. and the Rabinnical writings…. It was posted here not too long back — but I dont have the direct link…. Shouldnt be too hard to find….
CapN — It was posted at a time when there was a discussion about the “timeline” in Genesis 1…. and the “days” of Creation.
That might tickle your memory banks :-)
Chas.. you might re-read Genesis 2 while you are studying. When I read it, it says that God HAD created a Garden and then man was placed in it.That is consistent with vegetation created on the third day and man on the 6th.
>Samkan insists that eating a magical fruit will impair one’s soul. <
No Doug, but disobeying a direct order from God will.
Yes, Adam had access to the Tree of Life and immortality. When he sinned, he was banished from the Garden and his days became numbered.
Sam — Please note >>>>
Genesis 2:4-9 —
4(D)This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in (E)the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
5(F)Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, (G)for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
6But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.
7Then the LORD God formed man of (H)dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and (I)man became a living being.
8The LORD God planted a (J)garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.
9Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow (K)every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; (L)the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
[New Amer. Standard]
So, it would seem that the Garden is not planted until AFTER the Man is Created. And the MAN is placed INTO the Garden.
Just for clarification… The MAN is formed BEFORE anything is planted in the Garden.
BlueJay,
Abolition now.
In Genesis 1 it says:
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
—————–
Chas clearly in vs 12 that trees and grass were on the earth. Man wasn’t created until vs 26. That is why I don’t have a problem with an earth than appears to be older than some think. Who knows what a day in God time was. Who knows if he created trees that were full grown and would appear to be older.
Agree the Garden of Eden was created after man.
Parkay?
NOT gonna happen.
Now that we’ve gotten you talking?
The primary reason women choose abortion is economic.
You cannot fix that with laws.
Abortion is NOT going to be outlawed because women are not going back to being considered property.
Even if it were outlawed, you would only have moved it underground, as history shows us.
If you are REALLY pro life, then you would be in favor of “socialist” welfare programs that would help women make the decision YOU would force on them.
I know ONE poster to this forum that I would consider truly pro life. And lately, even that I’m thinking is shaky.
Your two word response does not make me optimistic that you would qualify.
“Abolition now.”
Would be about as successful as Prohibition.
Nathan writes, Your faith in God is anti-science as well.
Incorrect, as usual.
Nothing in my belief system violates what science says about the physical world.
The resurrected Christ? Just because everybody else died and stayed dead doesn’t mean that there isn’t an exception.
As Hamlet says, “there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of.”
Now the age of the universe, however. That’s an established fact.
Why does it matter how old the universe is? We only can see and sense/understand an extremely small fraction of it. How arrogant is it to say “We know how old it is!”?
“Steven —- this is the religious corner I mentioned previously…. See??”
What corner? All I see is Nathan invoking a tautology.
Chas., I see the flaws in Nathan’s approach with you every time he goes on this line of argument. But, as educated in the history of Christianity as you should be (if you’ve represented your background accurately, and I have no reason to think otherwise) you should be able to easily point out Nathan’s No True Scotsman Fallacy for the historically ignorant nonsense that it is, rather than simply to tell him to stop it or to ignore his basis for what he says. But, rather than use your own apparent education to rebut his nonsense, you type in angry caps, or you refuse to respond directly to what he says. To call what Nathan does a rhetorical trap is to give him waaaaay too much credit. You point out the rabbanical dialogues on the meaning of Genesis. One in your position can presumably point out centuries of Christian analysis of their own scriptures that do not assume the historical inerrancy of scripture, including symbolism. Tackle the basis of Nathan’s nonsense about “you are not a Christian” and particularly the definition which he presumes self evidently proves you are not a Christian, avoid responding to trollish provocation from folks like Regular and Anti, avoid flaming and your own occasional trollish provocations, and you will be much more effective.
That’s my opinion, anyway. Take it for what it’s worth.
BTW, I think LLVT is handling Nathan nicely on this thread.
It really gets old being slammed for your beliefs doesn’t it Nathan. I hope you’ll remember that next time you’re slamming someone for theirs or trying to convince them that your way is the right way.
On track for a 400 bil. (with a b) dollar deficit. Is that where bush said we’d be for this year?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080807/pl_nm/usa_politics_denver_protests_dc_1
Looks like afghanistan is picking up the ied slack. The bush whack-a-mole game goes on.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080806/wl_nm/usa_afghan_bombs_dc_1
“Agree the Garden of Eden was created after man.”
I do too, but I suspect our bases for coming to that conclusion are different. And, of course, I would not use the verb “created”.
I meant, of course, LLVET.
Nathan didn’t answer my sincere question about whether he wanted my young friend’s e-mail address so he could tell her she isn’t a Christian . . .
Looking back at this thread, I get a kick out of Chas itemizing his alleged religious training. On a blog. As if, were it true, education could substitute for a logical argument.
I think what gets Nathan understandably stirred up with regard to Chas is that he simply claims the Christian name and then trashing generally accepted Christian doctrine, while aiding and abetting those who ridicule Christianity. I know a lot of liberal Christians and none, none, act like Chas. By his actions, he has shown he is a liberal first and foremost. Not the usual hierarchy of priorities for any minister of the Word.
But this is a blog. And Chas can pretend to be who he wants to be. And he can well be challenged for his contradictions. Nothing wrong with that.
“It really gets old being slammed for your beliefs doesn’t it Nathan. I hope you’ll remember that . . .”
But you’re operating on two different belief systems, PMom. You’re operating on the modern (since the 18th Century) that I can have my ideas and not be killed for them if you can have your ideas and not be killed for them.
Before that, people all over Europe were killed for their beliefs. Roman Catholics persecuted and killed Lutherans, Lutherans persecuted and killed Anabaptists, and everybody persecuted and killed Jews.
Nathan is still stuck in the medieval world where being correct in your own mind means that you don’t have to respect anybody else’s rights . . .
“Do heathens have to put up with this ?”
No gster, not if they have enough mouse grease.
I’ve done so much scroll over on this thread, that I’m getting to the bottom of the grease barrel.
And it does take a BARREL of mouse grease to get through some of these threads.
I guess I better stock up before the price rises. It is made of petroleum, ya know…
Capn’A, equating killing and disagreeing as the same on this blog is irrational.
Sounds like our work is done — maybe we should send them a bill I wonder how much we should bill them for the 4000+ soldiers ::
BAGHDAD — Iraq is paying for more of its own reconstruction but is still struggling to spend its multibillion dollar surplus as it copes with a flood of oil revenue and a cumbersome approval process meant to curb corruption, U.S. officials said today.
Iraq could finish the year with as much as a $79 billion cumulative budget surplus as oil revenues add to leftover income the Iraqis still haven’t spent on national rebuilding, according to a report by the Government Accountability Office made public Tuesday.
In Washington, senators renewed calls for Baghdad to pay more for its own reconstruction, which has been heavily supported by hard-pressed American taxpayers.
“The Iraqi government now has tens of billions of dollars at its disposal to fund large-scale reconstruction projects,” Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said in a statement.
“It is inexcusable for U.S. taxpayers to continue to foot the bill for projects the Iraqis are fully capable of funding themselves,” Levin said.
But U.S. officials who work with the Iraqis on reconstruction said the Baghdad government has been increasing its capital spending by 30 to 35 percent each year since 2006 — although they added that both governments want to see the pace increased.
The Iraqi government is drafting plans for Iraqi-funded projects to include 1,000 new primary health care centers over the next 10 years, new airports and a major renovation project for downtown Baghdad, the American officials said.
They spoke on condition of anonymity because they did not want to comment on Iraqi government performance.
The officials said the United States has not begun any new reconstruction projects in Iraq since 2004 and that ongoing work is funded by money approved by Congress four years ago.
In the report, the GAO said Iraq had an estimated budget surplus of about $29 billion from 2005 to 2007 and could have an additional surplus of up to $50 billion this year.
Nearly $10 billion of the estimated surplus is held by the Development Fund for Iraq at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, according to the report. The rest of the money is at the Central Bank of Iraq and in Iraqi commercial banks.
The expected surplus is likely to be lower because parliament today approved legislation for a $21 billion supplemental budget for 2008.
Nevertheless, the GAO report faulted the government for holding back on spending plans.
“First … (the) relative shortage of trained budgetary, procurement and other staff with the necessary technical skills is a factor limiting the Iraqi government’s ability to plan and execute its capital spending,” the GAO said, adding that a second problem is the government’s weak accounting systems.
“Third … violence and sectarian strife remain major obstacles to developing Iraqi government capacity,” it said.
The report also estimated that this year Iraq could generate $67 billion to $79 billion in oil sales. Other U.S. officials previously had said they expected the oil windfall to be about $70 billion.
“This substantial increase in revenues offers the Iraqi government the potential to better finance its own security and economic needs,” the GAO said.
But the U.S. officials said the influx of oil money had been difficult to manage, not only for Iraq but for other oil-producing countries.
Other problems cited by the officials included a cumbersome approval process — put in place to curb corruption — lack of expertise in the ministries and a shortage of Iraqi contractors capable of taking on major development projects.
Since 2005, the United States has funded a number of efforts to teach civilian and security ministries how to effectively execute their budgets.
The efforts included programs to advise and help Iraqi government employees develop the skills to plan programs and to effectively deliver government services such as electricity, water and security.
Again Capn’A or anyone else,
Why does it matter how old the universe is? We only can see and sense/understand an extremely small fraction of it. How arrogant is it to say “We know how old it is!”?
maybe a short term solution to our energy issue is to get a whole lot of free oil from Iraq lets say for about 40 years —
Outlander–
I have met Chas. and he is indeed an ordained minister.
I can’t speak for his motives, but he may feel a little like the astronaut who walked on the moon confronted by the idiot who says that moon missions are a government hoax.
There’s just too much of a learning curve there to even begin to deal with it . . .
Anti–
You ignorant slut.
We can measure the age of the universe we can see and get a minimum age, can’t we.
Granny, your post upthread makes absolutely no sense. All you have done there is prove my point from many months ago that there are TWO Creation stories in Genesis. Chapter 2 shows that the Garden is planted AFTER the creation of the MAN… And before Man, nothing was growing at all…
Now, would you mind staying on the same topic, please?? Thank you for your contribution.
Just out, boeing is considerint the options of trying to get the slanted RFQ changed, protesting the RFQ, or withdrawing from bidding on the tanker.
Mccain/Gates/Pentagon went so far off track to keep airbus in the bidding they may very well have driven off the American based company!
With what ruler Capn’A? If I gave you a speck of sand could you describe the earth and everything that lived on it from that speck? Arrogance. You think small scale chief.
I am not saying the universe is 10,000 years old or 10,000,000,000 years old. I just find it horribly arrogant to say from what we have observe on this pin speck planet, we KNOW what cause the beginning and when it was. We may have a guess, but a guess none the less.
Anti–Did you read my previous post about how you can’t argue with some people because their level of ignorance is so great that one would have to run them through a university core-curriculum just to bring them up to speed so they could understand what one is talking about?
Yeah.
You’re that person.
I know that some of you don’t like to read long, drawn out posts… so here’s the summary…..
………………Congress………Military
John McCain: 26 Years…….22 years
Barack Obama: 143 days……0
Summary Concluded.
So, splain it to me Capn’A!
You know what all the answers are Capn’A, this should be easy for you to splain to a tard simpleton like me.
I might add that the overwhelming Biblical Scholarship since the time of the Reformation forward, has understood that the Genesis stories are collected stories from many different sources of old Hebreew thought. They come from basically four different sources.
Those sources are: Jahwist, Deuteronomist, Elohist, and Priestly. These are the four traditions of ancient Hebrewe thought and theology.
Anti–
It’s not a guess. It’s logical conclusions based on a variety of physical, chemical and astrophysical laws pieced together.
This is what Einstein did with his General and Special Theories of Relativity. It’s a “guess” in the same way that a new jet plane design or a hybrid car engine is a “guess.”
Oh and Capn’A, I have a large collection of Astronomy Education in my noggin’.
I don’t have all the answers.
But I do have a familiarity with what people who have some answers think.
Yes, but those were proven guesses. It is quite simple to back things up with theory and not have them proven. Until proven they are still a guess and could easily be wrong just as they could be right. Even Einstein knew that.
Well, I thought you were from the party of “open minds”, guess not.
But I do have a familiarity with what people who have some answers think.
—–
I know some people who think dogs can’t look up…doesn’t make them right.
Political_Mama,
As I have said numerous times, I don’t mind if every single one of you agnostic, atheist, anti-Christian, pseudo claim to be Christian or whoever else want to debate me on my faith.
I don’t mind. I would have sat here talking about it till I didn’t feel like it anymore.
The only think I point out is that it is never a problem until I question what someone else says. No one ever has a problem with people attacking me. It is only when I say something that everyone gets all upset. It is ok to say I am wrong, but not ok for me to say someone else is wrong.
Just pointing out the double standard around here.
Guess I should have posted the link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121805700442018139.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo
CapnAmerica,
I was dropping the subject. That is why I have not responded to you.
Sorry.
Boxlock writes “John McCain has been in Washington for 26 years.”
So, if you like the way Washington has worked in recent decades, by all means, vote McCain . . .
It’s logical conclusions based on a variety of physical, chemical and astrophysical laws pieced together.
—–
You are right, it is knowledge based on what we know of our microscopic surroundings. Speaking in scale of the universe.
If I were you, I’d quit digging too, Nathan.
Good call.
Anti–
Either you are wholly ignorant of science and how science works OR you’re just trolling me.
I can’t believe you’re that stupid, so I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you’re just trying to annoy me.
End of post.
Re: the almost nightly metaphysical thread. I’ve drawn the conclusion that many posters serve to give Nathan his daily fix for ‘testifying’.
No Capn’A, I just think you are a mindless idiot who’s only thoughts involve arrogance and the democratic party. That is based on hard core fact.
I am sorry that is the only little kennel you play in Capn’A….tisk, tisk…walking in circles, day after day.
Addendum to summary
McCain Congress 26 yrs —- Senator of a border state and has never attempted to ebb the flow of undocumented aliens that poured through HIS borders, things the issue just cropped up last month. — participated in corruption via Keating scandal — loves lobbyists almost as much as they love him — not an honest man —- supported WPE’s economic policies to creat the largest deficit in history in 26 years did nothing to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, “….takes pride in being ignorant” Obama quote) and as PH said a real old white guy
Military 22 years — finished 5th from the bottom of his Naval Academy crashed 4 airplanes, POW 5 years (missed most of the war he claims he fought and knows how to win – never a combat commander, promoted primarily to O-6 because he is the son of an Admiral and a was a POW
It’s easy to appear to be a “maverick” – when you’re supposedly fighting against a program when that program will be approved any way.
Obama – honor student at Yale. not old enough to amass as corrupt / minimal a track record as McCain.
Ah ha. Thanks for that, Anti.
It’ll be much easier to scroll over your posts in the future.
No, Thank you Capn’A.
CapnAmerica,
Digging what? You are the one who keeps starting this crap.
You are the one who keeps mocking my father and I for our faith.
I have yet to instigate a faith based discussion with you since our agreement.
You know, that agreement you made with me and have broken over and over and over again?
Get over yourself, liar.
Indie–
Great post.
It’s eerie how the ‘Pukes managed to find the guy most like Bush to run after seven long years of Worst. President. Ever.
Now, if we can just keep the election from getting stolen again, we can win this thing.
I will name a star after you…a chocolate star….
Nathan–
I’m not responding to your attacks anymore.
Sorry.
Now, if we can just keep the election from getting stolen again
——
Christ, are you predicting failure again Capn’A…Already making up excuses? No wonder you are a Demo
Good post Indie. Touche.
Even though I didn’t read your post, Anti, your taking of my Lord and Savior’s name in vain offends me to the core.
Please refrain from using the name of Christ as a curse word.
Thank you.
Like you really care Capn’A
Peace out!
I’m outta here. Be back for regularly scheduled programming.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26050915
Author stands by his claim of White House forgery
Insists link between Saddam and al-Qaida was faked: ‘It’s all on the record’
Despite adamant denials by both the White House and the CIA, journalist Ron Suskind Wednesday stood by his allegation that the Bush administration concocted a fake letter purporting to show a link between Saddam Hussein’s regime and al-Qaida as a justification for the Iraq war. “It’s all on the record,” Suskind told Meredith Vieira on TODAY.
. . .
Suskind alleges the White House concocted the letter, meant to come from Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, director of Iraqi intelligence under Hussein, in fall 2003 to bolster its case for the invasion that year as it was becoming clear that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Confronted with the denials by Vieira on TODAY Wednesday, Suskind said: “It’s one of these instances where you’ve got a few people whose testimony could mean impeachment, ostensibly, of the President. There’s enormous pressure on both men.
“Look, I’m sympathetic to them: They’re good guys,” Suskind added. “I’ve spent a lot of time with them. Their interviews are taped.”
*****
Ah, yes. The marvel of audio tape.
Did President Liar lie us into Iraq?
Yes.
He clearly lied on many occasions–
1. aluminum tubes for centrifuges. Analysts knew and told Commander Cod Piece that the tubes were for conventional short-range rockets.
2. the IAEA report which Bush claimed had determined that Saddam was “six months away from a nuclear weapon. I don’t know what more evidence you need.”
That would be very good evidence, if true. However the report clearly stated exactly the opposite. Absolutely no signs of Iraq having a nuclear weapon and no likelihood of it getting one.
3. “Those people who said we didn’t find the Weapons of Mass Destruction were wrong. We found them. We found them.” Bush was referring to mobile weather stations. The intelligence people told Bush they were weather stations. The field report called them weather stations. Bush repeated the “mobile weapons lab” bullsh!t for over a year.
4. “Saddam Hussein must leave within 24 hours or we will invade.” Actually, Commander Coward planned to invade whether Saddam left or not. A number of field commanders verified that Saddam’s going or staying was irrelevant to invasion plans.
Now in addition to the clear lies, we have evidence of faked evidence.
Yup. It fits a pattern.
I get it now.
“ANTI” is Hank.
Of course, “ANTI” could volunteer to meet me and prove otherwise.
BlueJay,
You have been saying ANTI is someone different every week.
You even have reliable sources.
Obviously not that reliable.
I don’t think so, JR.
Hank never seems capable of responding to me without signing off with his trademarked “nitwit.”
Also, I don’t think he would write “Christ.”
We have to just face it. There’s a helluvalot of wing-nuts in Kansas . . .
Obama’s star is falling, falling, falling.
What will the Democrats do? March toward defeat like the Republicans do?
Nope, for they have SUPERDELEGATES!!!!
Google “Green Gornet” for the secret plan.
Also, Anti never actually posts anything.
He/she/it just cheap shots people who do post.
Nathaniel
Posted August 6, 2008 at 4:57 pm | Permalink
Steven,
That is fine. What you believe is not what a Christian believes though.
*****
Christians as you define them, may not be all Christians. Sorry, but you do not get to define what all people believe. I know that must be a narcissistic blow to you, but it is truth. You are one very sad failed human, Nathan… Please tell us why the preceding is not true…
Well Nathan,
“ANTI” posted first as “ANTI JR”
CLEARLY a fan… or stalker.
Now I figured it was just another nic of James Mc Cluer who lately goes by “Regular”.
I know several folks who think “ANTI” is you Nathan.
Hey Nathan it is not me who is in on polluting who is who. I fight it for what share I had in it early on.
I proposed a simple solution.
I have stood toe to toe with you and your father all alone Nathan.
I have met more posters than anyone else here.
Now it is on “ANTI”.
Anti, is the only poster on this blog, to my knowledge, who has posted as being against a blogger.
He/She/It started out as “Anti- J R.” which would suggest by fiat that this person [sic] has nothing independent to say.
Steven–
I still can’t figure out why Nathan won’t take me up on my offer to connect him to the youth pastor who’s now in seminary.
He could save her from a life of apostasy and a lake of fire for all eternity, if only he cared enough . . .
Jay,
Email me tomorrow.
If only she could be as narrow-minded and judgmental as Nathan, then she could be a real Christian.
Nathan wears a wrist band–WWJH. Who Would Jesus Hate?
Capn,
Email me, too. I am feeling the need to see a baseball game… Night all.
Oh, man, Tiahrt called me up tonight for one of his bogus telephone town halls.
They must have screened the callers pretty carefully. Even so, a populist would occasionally squeeze past and really make T-Hearless squirm.
One old boy quoted him chapter and verse of how many local aircraft jobs were lost after NAFTA passed. THard’s response? Government regulations were to blame, I kid you not.
The old boy wasn’t buying it. He knew that corporations were hitting him over the head and that the way to stop them was not for government to hand them more bats to hit you with.
Worst. President. Ever.
Worst. Congressman. Ever.
Cool. I have a connection at WSU sports these days, hehehe.
And it’s bedtime for bonzo . . .
Done Steven.
“ANTI”? I’m calling you out.
Now you nip heels and you seem particularly attracted to mine.
LOL I have lots of enemies.
But the only time I changed my nic was when I had to due to posting changes.
I’m loved, or hated depending on who you ask.
And I am comfortable in that.
Time to show your cards or lay them down there “ANTI”.
Steven,
What is it about you that makes you nice and reasonable one part of the day and very mean and vile with your posts at another?
I still don’t get it.
Steven,
Also, what is the point in calling for me to stop the conversation if you are only going to come back to try to start it again?
Chas
Posted August 6, 2008 at 10:13 pm | Permalink
Granny, your post upthread makes absolutely no sense. All you have done there is prove my point from many months ago that there are TWO Creation stories in Genesis. Chapter 2 shows that the Garden is planted AFTER the creation of the MAN… And before Man, nothing was growing at all…
Now, would you mind staying on the same topic, please?? Thank you for your contribution.
———————
Your arrogance is superceeded only by your stupidity. Both chapters say the same thing. The garded of eden was created after man but the grass and trees were here long before that.
Please Chass keep your thinking cap on and really read the verses without the worthless papers you have been slinging out tonight.
Soirry Granny, you are just plain WRONG on that …. You actually need to READ Chapter 2… It is a different story… begins at Gen. 2:4.
Chass you can say that all night long and you won’t be right.You are such a laughable person with your arrogance. Nathan is right about you and the truth must hurt you. I am secure in my beliefs. Wouldn’t want to be in your shoes when you reach the Pearly Gates.
Nathaniel
Posted August 7, 2008 at 12:26 am | Permalink
Steven,
What is it about you that makes you nice and reasonable one part of the day and very mean and vile with your posts at another?
I still don’t get it.
*****
I am not surprised. I am not trying to make you seem any more ridiculous [note that correct spelling, Heckler] than you are.
nathan,
I listen to Green Day real loud at night. You should try it… :)
ONE MORE TIME >>>>
Genesis 2:4-9 —
4(D)This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in (E)the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
5(F)Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, (G)for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
6But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.
7Then the LORD God formed man of (H)dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and (I)man became a living being.
8The LORD God planted a (J)garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.
9Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow (K)every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; (L)the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
[New Amer. Standard]
===========================================
Emphasis in BOLD…
Notice the verses in BOLD….
Vs. 7 — The MAN is not created IN the Garden… The MAN is placed INTO the Garden, once it is made ready. The MAN already exists BEFORE the Garden is made, toward the East…
Vs. 8 — In THIS story, the Garden (with all of the earth’s vegetation) comes AFTER the MAN is made….
NOW —-
In Chapter 1 —-
The Male AND Female are the FINAL Creation…. NOT the first….
It is so simple, I cannot understand why ANYBODY cant see this…. Honestly….
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
—————-
Couldn’t be any clearer Chass. Vs 11 says He created grass and fruit trees.
2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
—————-
Chapter 2 clearly says after the trees were formed then man was formed. Then God created the Garden of Eden.
I know the bible to you isn’t factually so please don’t pretend to be a scholar of it.
Idiot.
You had to shop to find that interpretation didn’t you. Won’t wash. You are wrong. No cigar tonight. Maybe you need to go to another translation. Keep looking.
Emphasis mine Chass.
Granny, you can disagree all you want… Doesnt matter to me… However, you, like Nathan, are the one who will determine the “right” or “wrong” of the interpretation… I choose to side with Centuries of Biblical scholarship…. I am extremely comfortable in my belief system…
Oooops — Typo!!
“are the one” = are NOT the one
“Chass you can say that all night long and you won’t be right.You are such a laughable person with your arrogance. Nathan is right about you and the truth must hurt you. I am secure in my beliefs.
You are? (Oh and your spelling is failing too)
Then… why attack Chas here as Nathan does?
Arrogance? That is where Nathan lives.
Well, at least lately.
That is a family dynamic I may choose to explore.
Since the Price family has felt free to speculate and lie on me and my family?
Granny, I swear to God, you are one pig headed BRICK WALL…. This is squarely right in front of you, and you cant see the obvious… The ancient Hebrews had different understandings of Creation… Rather than choosing ONE version, they simply put all of them together…. THAT is the concensus of 20 centuries of Biblical Scholarship….
I choose to go with the Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience of History…
I am not going to argue with you about it, because it really just doesnt matter… If you like Genesis 1, go for it… I like Genesis 1 AND 2…. Both of them together give us a better understanding of how those ancient Hebrews saw the foundation of the beginnings of humanity…. One elevates the Creation of MAN… over Nature…. The other puts primary emphasis on Nature….
Ahhh haaaa —- NOW you are arguing over which translation??? NOW you are getting extremely shallow…. Do you not understand that the newer the translation, the more accurate??? You are quoting from no newer than a NKJV version…. My version is clearly marked… [New American Standard]
Chas?
Don’t sweat it.
They need to vet out who “ANTI” is.
Until they do that? Don’t take any of them seriously.
ESPECIALLY not Nathan or Hank.
I hear ya Jay….
Good night; Good luck; God Bless —-
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
So mote it be!!
Chas…
I will give you that round. Your translation says what it says.. the NIV says the garden HAD been planted and then man was placed there. I checked several other translations and did not find that wording.