Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- janeeyre on Bad timing on mammogram recommendation
- Raptor on Open thread 11/21
- janeeyre on Open thread 11/21
- Regular on Open thread 11/21
- XXX on Open thread 11/21
- Daniel on ACORN stole election?
- Daniel on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on ACORN stole election?
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
310 Comments
Congratulations to WE blogger, Mary Caruso, on your well thought out letter to the editor in this morning’s EAGLE. Suggested reading by all bloggers.
Since I have time I’ll give one for the creationists. An oldy, but a goody.
Kansas Outlaws Practice Of Evolution
November 28, 2006 | Issue 42•48
TOPEKA, KS—In response to a Nov. 7 referendum, Kansas lawmakers passed emergency legislation outlawing evolution, the highly controversial process responsible for the development and diversity of species and the continued survival of all life.
“From now on, the streets, forests, plains, and rivers of Kansas will be safe from the godless practice of evolution, and species will be able to procreate without deviating from God’s intended design,” said Bob Bethell, a member of the state House of Representatives. “This is about protecting the integrity of all creation.”
The sweeping new law prohibits all living beings within state borders from being born with random genetic mutations that could make them better suited to evade predators, secure a mate, or, adapt to a changing environment. In addition, it bars any sexual reproduction, battles for survival, or instances of pure happenstance that might lead, after several generations, to a more well-adapted species or subspecies.
Violators of the new law may face punishments that include jail time, stiff fines, and rehabilitative education and training to rid organisms suspected of evolutionary tendencies. Repeat offenders could face chemical sterilization.
More at:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55807
So McSame uses Christmas as a campaign ploy, and lies in the middle of it at the same time.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/mccains-cross-i.html
Remember when Hillary was crucified for remembering events wrong? Well, its McSame’s turn
I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it was, as I filled it lovingly. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.
But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue.
Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table – everywhere!
Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket.
And others birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.
After a while, I couldn’t even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
Soon, the back yard was like it used to be quiet, serene … and no one demanding his right to a free meal.
Now let’s see. Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care and free education, and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.
Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child’s second grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn’t speak English.
Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to ‘press one’ to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than ‘Old Glory’ are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Just my opinion, but maybe it’s time for the government to take down the bird feeder.
–author unknown
Amen.
Letter to the editor, last line:
“Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to affordable health care.”
Lovely idea…who pays for it?
While we are at it, why not say “Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to a car”? or,
“should have the right to a high paying job”? or,
“should have the right to a free college education”?
Why stop there? Let’s include the “right to free housing, the right to free food, the right to free utilities, the right to free gasoline,” etc, etc.
I know it sounds ridiculous…but where do we draw the line? Is “affordable health care” a ‘right’ as called for in the Declaration of Independence? When the framers called for the rights of “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” does that include health care? Just how is health care a “right”?
Note–before screaming and venting and going on all out attack mode, please note I am asking questions. Questions normally are interrogatory in nature, requesting more information. Try to remember that before going on an all out personal hatred attack, ok?
Both major political parties fund welfare programs. Government generates NO income, they take money from taxpayers and spend all of it (plus some more that future generations will be stuck with). Republican politicians are more likely to fund corporate welfare while Democratic politicians fund welfare for citizens more often. They all give our money away. In more recent years corporations have thanked American taxpayers by moving their corporations and their jobs out of our country. Many citizens have thanked American taxpayers for the “leg up” by becoming gainfully employed taxpayers who also have their money taken away in order to fund the corporations moving out of country and taking American jobs to other countries.
Delegates may get full voting rights
Committee likely to give OK before Dem convention
Last year, Michigan and Florida Democrats were being told they would lose all their votes at the Democratic National Convention if they moved up their presidential primaries.
Now, the same committee that stripped Florida and Michigan of their delegates for violating party rules by holding early primaries is poised to suggest those delegates regain their full voting powers when the Denver convention starts in eight days.
Michigan had its presidential primaries Jan. 15 and Florida did the same Jan. 29, breaking national Republican and Democratic rules that said most states couldn’t hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5.
Michigan and Florida, major swing states with diverse populations and a lot of electoral votes, said they were more representative of the country and deserved an early say in the selection process.
That led to an intraparty squabble. Democrats in both states warned that the eventual Democratic nominee risked losing their states in November if they were punished. Some Florida Democrats took legal action to get their delegates seated, and neither state got preprimary campaign visits from candidates Barack Obama or Hillary Rodham Clinton.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080817/ELECTIONS01/808170556/-1/NLETTER01&source=nletter-news
““Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to affordable health care.”
And who gets to say what is affordable?
Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to health care.
AND housing AND food AND utilities AND communications.
As to who pays? Go where the money is.
Just my opinion, but I think the government has hung way too bird feeders for BIG PHARMA, INSURANCE…
Even people who have health insurance can’t afford the health care they need. The doctor (who actually sees, examines) orders a test or prescribes a treatment or medication for the patient. Insurance denies that expense so the patient does without or pays the full cost of what the doctor knows the patient needs. This is health care? This is insurance to cover health care costs? This is pure BS!
“While we are at it, why not say “Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to a car”? or,
“should have the right to a high paying job”? or,
“should have the right to a free college education”?”
Rap, Do you think every American should have the right to affordable education, decent roads, fire and police protection? How about clean air and clean water?
Do you think that poor, elderly, the disabled, and veterens deserve affordable health care? Then why not ALL Americans?
It’s time to cut out the middle men getting rich off the present system, therefore dramically cutting health care costs, and go to a nationalized system.
One doesn’t need a car, high paying job, or even a college education to order to live…but we all need health care to do so.
Thanks, JWink for your support.
Rap..could you afford to pay for private health insurance if you lost YOUR benefits? Curious minds want to know.
Scuz the typos, not enough caffeine yet!
Last week, a worker at the Salina Hawker Beechcraft strike was struck by a vehicle- on purpose- and the worker who drove into the man is still in his job.
I just read that another striker in wichita was KILLED when hit by a vehicle. If the person who hit him was a worker not on strike, do you suppose they’ll let him keep working even though he just murdered someone?
Salina Beechcraft should be sued for allowing the first one to go back to work- since apparently they think that they can all just hit the strikers now with no consequences.
“Congratulations to WE blogger, Mary Caruso…..”
Say what?
That has to be one of the stupidest letters to the editor I’ve read, to date.
A person must get their priorities straight. If health insurance is important to them, bypassing the “extras” in life is what must be done to accomplish that.
Since medical providers must accept small monthly payments on outstanding bills, even those with no insurance can pay for their medical costs a little at a time if they give up the frivolous wants.
I’m not sure why anyone would congratulate someone on such a senseless letter that encourages the lack of personal responsibility.
what disturbed me more- there were people who defended the worker keeping his job.
It stuns me the idiocy of some who think that gee if you just cut out a 30 dollar item, then you should be able to afford a 1000 dollar item.
Where did you get your adding ability?
Without insurance, the same test can run more than double of what someone with insurance would pay. We need national healthcare NOW.
Mary, GREAT letter! Isn’t it reassuring to know we have a brighter future in store? We have affordable health care for all Americans in our future! Makes me proud.
Mary–
I know we certainly enjoy all those things, but do they fall into the category of ‘rights’? Rights, as in “no person shall be denied life, liberty or property without due process of law”. Do public streets or clean water fall into the same category? Are these “rights”?
And in answer to your question, do the poor, elderly, and veterans deserve affordable health care? Possibly…but does deserving something make it a ‘right’?
The idea that everything we want or expect is a ‘right’ is the concept I have difficulty with. By defining somethign as a ‘right’, that implies the government will pay for it–meaning the taxpayers.
“Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to health care.
AND housing AND food AND utilities AND communications.”– BlueJay
————
That is so ridiculous I wonder if you are kidding. I suppose that there are folks who wants the government to take care of them. And for someone else to pay for it.
You forgot entertainment, health club and massage therapy, BlueJay.
In answer to your secondary question, I HAVE lost employment in the past, and I worked at multiple jobs (none that had health care) to be able to cover bills–including health insurance. It was damn tough, exhausting and we had to do without a lot of extras…but we managed.
the 1600 dollar figure comes from what an actual insurance policy costs. Remember, if you get yours through work, your employer is already paying more than half of it to the insurance company. If you’re self employed, that will fall solely on you.
Just think how much more you could earn a year if your company wasnt’ taking it all out in insurance.
Insurance is expensive- not only do they have to pay for their huge office buildings, but the paper, the salaries of secretaries and sales producers, but also their famous trips to Aruba for ‘conferences’ and the like.
If we paid for our healthcare in taxes, we could save a ton of money. And isn’t the bottom line what you are all so worried about?
It says in the constitution that we have the right to life…liberty…and the pursuit of happiness. In order for all of those things you need health and wellness…and to be alive.
Raptor, you wouldn’t have managed had you had a major health issue. I promise.
Oh yeah don’t forget copays and deductibles, and things they refuse to pay too.
Let’s hope so Linda! It will be a great day when we all have equal access to health care.
“A person must get their priorities straight. If health insurance is important to them, bypassing the “extras” in life is what must be done to accomplish that.”
Con, sorry, but with today’s cost of health care and insurance, giving up the “extras” in life just wouldn’t cut it.
And what about me? If my husband lost his job and our benefits, I couldn’t even get medical insurance because I’ve had stage two cancer. My cancer treatment costs over $70,000 8 years ago..I can’t even imagine what it would cost today. How many people have that much money to pay their medical bills? Not me.
My brother in law died last year after only 7 days in intensive care…his hospital bill alone was over $80,000. If he didn’t have Medicare, there would have been no way my sister could have paid for that after his death.
You don’t get it…the average person CAN’T affford to get sick unless they have some sort of coverage…and the cost of coverage is too high for the average working person who doesn’t have access to benefits either through the government or their employer. It’s not a matter of “personal responsibility”, it a matter of affordabilty.
Not kidding a bit outlander.
We have so few who have so much and so many who have nothing.
And the many are supposed to accept that? Why should they?
Who forces you to be unemployed or stay at a job with no benefits?
“In answer to your secondary question, I HAVE lost employment in the past, and I worked at multiple jobs (none that had health care) to be able to cover bills–including health insurance. It was damn tough, exhausting and we had to do without a lot of extras…but we managed.”
And you shouldn’t have had to do that in a country as rich as ours. Affordable health care for every citizen should be a basic right.
One more thing that’s good about universal health care…it takes the “us” and “them” thinking out of the equation. When it’s the same for everyone…just like education, police protection, etc, it won’t be the ones “with” looking down on the ones “without” anymore. One less thing for the cons to feel smug and superior about.
“Who forces you to be unemployed or stay at a job with no benefits?”
No one…but many people don’t have the type of skills that allow them to find a job with benefits. And in today’s economy and more jobs getting shipped overseas (where BTW, the healthcare is free so companies don’t have to pay for employee health benefits) more people are going to be unemployed without it being their choice at all.
Mary–
I was following your logic and line of thinking until you got to the:
“One less thing for the cons to feel smug and superior about.”
That type of negativity/insult is not warranted. If you want to have a reasonable discussion that is one thing. If you are just going to resort to generalized insults and petty accusations, then I have nothing more to discuss.
“Oh yeah don’t forget copays and deductibles, and things they refuse to pay too.”
Good point, PMom. Insurance companies make a game out of denying claims, on the assumption that most people won’t fight if turned down and just pay out of pocket…they save billions each year by doing this. It’s time we took them out of the picture, that alone would significantly reduce the cost of health care in this country.
I see them deny claims all the time that they should pay for people who faithfully pay their premiums each month. One of my patients even had to file a complaint with the insurance commissioner and threaten a lawsuit to make his insurance company pay his claims.
AND housing AND food AND utilities AND communications.
As to who pays? Go where the money is.
All that and more junior. Buy a one way ticket to Russia. Do let us know how that works out for you.
Isn’t it reassuring to know we have a brighter future in store? We have affordable health care for all Americans in our future! Makes me proud.
Linda,
How exactly, is Obama going to pay fr his projected 1 Trillion in extra spending?
Mary–
I was following your logic and line of thinking until you got to the:
“One less thing for the cons to feel smug and superior about.”
Raptor
Please see the last health care thread featuring Susan Wagle.
Your ideological pals put on a pretty good show of exactly what Mary is talking about. Do not blame her for them.
Good, Raptor….because I think you’ve run out of things to say anyway.
Sol, so HOW much has this war cost? I’d rather see all that wasted money go to something good..like providing Americans with health care they can afford.
http://agents.norvax.com/quote/brochure/BCBSMI/BCBSMI_Broch_04-07.pdf
If you do your homework, you can find insurance. My current position offered bennies. I chose to go 1099 and provide for myself.
Why should I have to pay more because of others’ stupid choices in life?
I believe we could be the world model of how to do universal health care right. We have the best medical technologies in the world, what we have to do is give people equal and affordable access to it. What good does it do if the best medical care in the world is inaccessable most Americans?
If you approach them at the right chances are that they may be booked and have no time to attend to you. The streets are very relaxing really. See the streets or experience his right.
Sol, so HOW much has this war cost?
don’t have a figure. I’d guess trillions. That was also borrowed money. would you like to continue to borrow for free health care?
How many folks go to Canada for the latest procedures? The UK? Germany? Socialization kills advancement.
the best medical care in the world is inaccessable most Americans?
——
It is NOT inaccessible to MOST Americans.
We have so many models to look at too. We have the opportunity to see what has worked well or poorly for all the other countries so far ahead of America in offering affordable health care to all their citizens.
Anti…you’re paying more now because the price of health care is so out of contol due to all the middle men getting rich of the system that’s in place right now. Why do you think drug and insurance companies spend billions on advertising?
Why should I have to pay more because of an idiot Presidents invading a country that never did me any harm and couldn’t if they wanted to?
We have the best medical technologies in the world
Because it is well financed. Take the money away and you take advancement away. See my previous post.
“It is NOT inaccessible to MOST Americans.”
But it is unaffordable, therefore inaccessable.
Mary_Caruso
Posted August 18, 2008 at 9:49 am | Permalink
Anti…you’re paying more now because the price of health care is so out of contol due to all the middle men getting rich of the system that’s in place right now. Why do you think drug and insurance companies spend billions on advertising?
——
Wrong. I don’t pay any premiums. I pay $25 co-pay. I have a $1000 deductible on any major procedure.
But it is unaffordable
Do some homework. Research what you can afford. There are many many plans available.
And who do you think pays for most the research that gives us the best medical technologies in the world, Sol? Are you familar with government grants?
Are you familar with government grants?
Sure. That is the money the AGW alarmists are wasting.
Of course there are grants. They do a lot of research out at U of M. No one getting rich off that. But we are training our best and brightest to be better and brighter.
How much in R&D do you think Pfizer spends per quarter? Of the drugs that do reach the market, how many (with billions in sunk cost) don’t?
Sol, I can’t get insurance if my husband loses his job and benefits…even if a company would offer me a private policy, the premiums would be so high that we could never afford them.
Insurance compnaies only want to cover the people they think won’t get sick.
“How much in R&D do you think Pfizer spends per quarter?”
I know the biggest part of their budget goes for advertising, not research.
Now, this looks like a practical solution, eat rats.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080818/wl_nm/india_rats_dc_1
Mary,
And all others that think they can’t afford it, start here.
http://www.bcbsks.com/
I can’t speak to your specific issue. I have contacted a health care consultant. Third party, not affiliated with any ‘brand’. He found plans that suit my needs and that I can afford.
Cost me nothing to have him research it. Might suggest you find someone like that in your locale.
blue jay:
“Your ideological pals put on a pretty good show of exactly what Mary is talking about. Do not blame her for them”
Ahhhh…the old “THEY STARTED IT” defense. Gotta love the descent into 3rd grade ‘discussion’.
This blog had such promise..too bad it has been ruined by continued childish idiocy where people cannot have an intelligent exchange of ideas without gratuitous insults being thrown around under the guise of being ‘clever’.
That’s a whole ‘nuther issue…the cost of drugs. In Canada and Japan, it’s illegal for drug companies to advertise or provide perks to doctors to prescribe their drugs. In this country, drug companies spend billions on both…and who do you think pays for that? Have you paid out of pocket for one the newer antibiotics lately?
I’ve got to go…believe it or not, I have a doctors appointment this morning. We also have new insurance, and so far they are refusing to pay for my meds that I have been on for years…so now I get to fight that battle..again.
Thanks for a good discussion guys..see you on the flip side.
See ya Marry, Do check back please.
GlaxoSmithKline just gave $25 million for private research. A bunch of this goes to obesity research my son conducts in his lab. It’s a BIG donation and great news! Although I’m not always very happy with big pharma, they deserve thanks!
http://www.hsci.harvard.edu/spotlight/2932
Socialization…
“Countries rich and poor struggle with how best to provide affordable health care to their citizens without breaking the bank. In places like the Czech Republic, the difficulty is sharpened by the clash between the rapidly rising expectations for the latest and best treatments and the long-ingrained habits of Communist-era unlimited, free health care on demand.
Today in Europe
Russia’s grip on Georgia appears tight even as Moscow says withdrawal begins In areas under Russian control, limits for Western mediaFrance reaffirms its faith in future of nuclear power
There is a sense of betrayal, because the state once took care of them, but also a justified fear for those left behind in the recent years of growth and change. Even in Prague, known as the golden city, newfound wealth for some has meant only higher prices for those trapped with low salaries or fixed pensions.
“I have to save so I have money for food,” said Kveta Lachoutova, 78, a retired statistician and widow.
In an interview in the waiting room at her doctor’s office here, she said that she was trying to live on a monthly pension of about $600, while spending close to $400 on rent ”
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/26/europe/czech.php
The down fall of the womb to tomb mentality.
More problems with socialization, from our brothers in the Great White North…
“GOVERNMENT HEALTH-CARE ENTHUSIASTS in the United States have long looked to Canada as a leading light of health care fairness and equity. From a distance, Canada may seem to have it all: modern medicine and universal insurance. Up close, the story is quite different. On June 9, the Supreme Court of Canada called the system dangerous and deadly, striking down key laws and turning the country’s vaunted health care system on its head. The ruling aptly symbolizes the declining enthusiasm for socialized medicine even in socialist nations. American legislators—such as those in the California Senate who approved a single-payer plan this month—should take note. ”
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_weekly_standard-socialized_medicine_life.htm
When the uninsured have hospitalization, they are billed at the full cost, not getting the price breaks given to insurance companies. When they of necessity default on the charges, the hospital ‘absorbs’ them.
Now, what happens in any industry when the industry ‘absorbs’ ‘dead beat’ expenses? Answer, they are passed on by charging more to the paying customers. Just like credit card companies. If they didn’t recover these costs they would go bankrupt.
So everyone pays one way or another.
Still more woes with socialization…
“Fewer Drugs Covered
Yet despite the government pouring $81 billion into the NHS over the last six years, access to treatment is spotty, and long waiting lists are the norm. In 2005, 41% of British patients waited four months or longer for elective surgery, compared with less than 10% in the U.S., according to London-based think tank Civitas. Limited resources also mean medical care varies widely depending on where you live. Access to life-extending new cancer drugs is especially constrained. As a result, Britain has one of the lowest five-year survival rates for cancer overall: 43% for men and 53% for women, vs. 53% and 71%, respectively, in France.
Many critics of the British system blame the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), whose mission is to analyze the cost-benefit of treatments to determine which should be covered by the NHS. Some of the new cancer therapies NICE has nixed include Imclone’s (IMCL) Erbitux, for colon cancer, Genentech’s (DNA) Tarceva, for non-small-cell lung and pancreatic cancer, and Avastin, another Genentech drug used to treat bowel cancer. ”
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070613_921562_page_2.htm
Please note, these were found using the following search string in Google.
“european socialized health care”
Not looking for boogie men, they are just too abundant not to notice…
JOHN McCAIN CHEATS AND THEN LIES ABOUT IT IN HIS MOST RECENT MAJOR PUBLIC ADDRESS
Barack Obama and John McCain recently appeared at the Saddleback Church forum. Both candidates were asked the same questions. Obama appeared during the first hour, during which time, McCain was supposedly kept in a “cone of silence” so he couldn’t hear the answers ahead of time.
Turns out, he wasn’t kept in “a cone of silence.” He was travelling by car to the venue while Obama was getting grilled. The New York Times has already reported on this.
Is there any evidence that McCain actually heard the questions that he claims he didn’t hear?
YES, THERE IS.
Consider this question that Obama got:
Obama’s questions on education
Q. (from Moderator) OKAY, LET’S GO TO EDUCATION. AMERICA RIGHT NOW RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION. WE’RE FIRST IN INCARCERATIONS.
A. (from Obama) NOT GOOD.
Q. NOT GOOD. 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS [in a] RECENT POLL SAID THEY BELIEVE IN MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS.
1. I’M NOT ASKING, DO YOU THINK ALL TEACHERS SHOULD GET A RAISE?
2. BUT, DO YOU THINK BETTER TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID BETTER?
3. AND SHOULD THEY BE MAKING MORE THAN POOR TEACHERS?
Now to McCain:
Q ALL RIGHT. LET’S TALK ABOUT EDUCATION. AMERICA RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATIONS, BUT WE’RE FIRST IN INCARCERATION. EVERYBODY SAYS THEY WANT MORE ACCOUNTABILITY IN SCHOOLS?
A UH-HUH.
Q ABOUT 80 PERCENT OF AMERICA SAYS THEY SUPPORT MERIT PAY FOR THE BEST TEACHERS. NOW, I DON’T WANT TO HEAR YOUR STUMP SPEECH ON EDUCATION.
A (McCain says) YES. YES. AND FIND BAD TEACHERS ANOTHER LINE OF WORK.
Q YOU KNOW –
A CAN I –
Q YOU ARE ANSWERING SO QUICKLY.
A CAN I –
******
Read that carefully. Even though McCain supposedly had not heard Obama’s questions and his campaign indignately vowed that he had not cheated, McCain answered the three part question that Obama had been asked!
Why else would McCain say, “yes, yes, and fire bad teachers” when the Moderator had not even asked him a question yet?
It’s possible to find as many success stories as stories of failures. You know that, Sol! And the best news is that so many countries have advanced far beyond America so we have the opportunity to see what works and what doesn’t when we make affordable health care available to all Americans!
The discussion on this thread concerning access to affordable health care reinforces my thought that there does need to be a total reexamination of the present system and a public debate, vigorous and learned, about how to improve it, if it can; what to substitute for it, should it be determined the present system is broken beyond repair.
Some of the issues I believe need to be examined include, but are not limited to:
Whether pharmaceutical companies should be permitted to advertise to the public? (I know I’m on shaky First Amendment ground here, GMC, but the question deserves to be asked)
Whether medical insurance companies should be stock companies, or should the same be mutual companies?
Whether there should be “for profit” health care facilities?
Whether Medicare/Medicaid should be able to negotiate the price for prescription medications to be provided to the beneficiaries of these programs much as the VA and, in at least some cases, private insurers may?
Given the global marketplace, is there any way for companies in the U.S. to remain competitive given the way health care is provided in the countries that are home to the largest competitors of U.S. businesses?
Whether the idea of a friend and client of mine to shift the reinsurance business of medical insurance companies over a certain amount, e.g., $5 million to the government rather than another company or group of companies makes any sense?
Should pharmaceutical companies be constrained in dividend payments or offering to buy back their stock, should it be determined that it’s OK to have stock insurance companies rather than mutual companies?
Whether the R&D tax credits granted under the applicable provisions of the IRC need reexamination for pharmaceutical companies, with a view towards increasing the same, decreasing the same, eliminating the same, or not changing the same?
Whether there should be a total ban on “gifts” to medical professionals from marketing types working for pharmaceutical companies?
Whether a reexamination of the patent laws is needed with respect to “drugs”?
There are more issues, to be sure. The above occur to me from time to time. Note the interrogative nature of the issues; I’m not looking for knee jerk reactions from either side of the debate, nor name calling. Rather, like Raptor, I’m looking for discourse and responses based upon data, if available, and if no data are available, the logic underlying the particular response.
It looks like Larry King plans to look into that “cone of silence” lie, Capn.
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/18/mccain-cone-of-silence-or-no-cone-of-silence/
McCain Lies about his POW Experience
Just as Rudy Ghouliani couldn’t seem to say anything without referencing 9-11, John McCain manages to constantly remind us that he was a POW during Vietnam.
One of his favorite points is that “he could have come home early but he chose to stay and tough it out.”
Actually, it turns out that ALL THE POWS COULD HAVE COME HOME EARLY.
All they had to do was make a tape denouncing the US for “wars of imperialist aggression, etc.” and they would be released home.
Funny how McSame neglects to mention that last part . . .
“Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to affordable health care.”
What an incredibly insane, thoughtless statement!
Every American?
Does that include every illegal imigrant that comes over the border for us to pay for the delivery of their ‘anchor babies’? That’s what the liberals want.
Does that include chronic alcoholics? For their liver transplants? Or drug addicts?
You said “regardless of circumstances”. Really? You think that the government isn’t going to start a centrally located government agency with no other purpose than to start deciding on what circumstances allow health care procedures?
“right to affordable health care.”
Where in the hell in the constitution is this right? “…affordable…” that implies that we’ll still have to pay for it, but with the government deciding how much. Is that what you mean? You want the government deciding what is affordable?
Idiotic.
I’m sorry Mary, your letter was little more than liberal talking points with a little whining thrown in. Almost every part of it was insane.
May the same generous spirit that Hank shows unto others be shown unto him in his time of need . . .
Jesus
Do you consider ‘illegal aliens’ as American citizens?
Is it your contention that alcoholics and drug addicts are getting what they deserve? Sounds like compassionate conservatism at work.
Didn’t mccain make quite a few anti-american film segments for N.V.? I’d read where one of the film makers didn’t understand english very well but spoke spanish, so mccain spoke spanish for him.
I’d noticed mccain threw in his pow b.s. statement at a town hall meeting, and without breaking moved onto a different topic, and then concluded the meeting with no further questioning.
For anyone who watches him, is this a pattern?
Good points VT. Maybe the system needs a better evaluation before the next move is made.
As per the McCain interview. Two things stand out. Was Obama’s interview conducted live? McCain was answering a question asked. Not the entire question, but merit pay is not a new subject. I am sure both candidates had opinions prior to the interview.
We all are happy, thankful that McCain survived those years of suffering! Let’s move forward to peace where no one will need to suffer the atrocities McCain suffered! But again I ask, how did being a victim of war add to any qualification for being president? All I hear out of McCain is war hero (shot down and held captive is heroic?), and service and fighting wars… Oh, and bomb bomb bomb Iran. He lives in the past and seems to want the opportunity to redo his past, start his own war or two or three. The man is a mad warmonger!
McCain refuses “believer’s baptism.” Denied Church Membership.
McCain Keeps His Faith to Himself, at Church and in Campaign
By Hans Nichols
More Photos/Details
April 25 (Bloomberg) — John McCain’s pastor ends his sermons with an altar call, beckoning any stirred souls to the front of his 3,500-seat“worship center” to publicly dedicate their lives to Jesus Christ. In McCain’s 15 years of attending Dan Yeary’s North Phoenix Baptist Church, the pastor says, the Arizona senator has never made that walk.
. . .
While McCain, 71, describes Yeary as his family pastor, Yeary said the senator — who was christened an Episcopalian — isn’t a full member of his church because he has never undergone the adult baptism that membership requires.
Ahhha, the Russian attack payoff:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121884933721146317.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo
SolDV–
Yes. And no, he wasn’t.
Wouldn’t it have been weird if I answered your questions before they had been asked?
While McCain, 71, describes Yeary as his family pastor, Yeary said the senator — who was christened an Episcopalian — isn’t a full member of his church because he has never undergone the adult baptism that membership requires.
—–
Maybe he has the hydrophobia….scandalous!
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf Resigns
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf announced his resignation today in order to avoid charges of impeachment that were to be leveled against him later this week. General Musharraf has ruled Pakistan since he seized power in a 1999 coup. He has been a close ally to the United States for the past decade. Al Jazeera reports Musharraf’s resignation was brokered by Saudi Arabia, the United States and Britain. In a televised address, Musharraf insisted on his innocence but said he did not want to subject Pakistan to a draining political battle. According to the Pakistani constitution, a new president must be chosen within thirty days. We’ll have more on Pakistan after headlines.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/18/headlines
Justice Dept Proposes New Domestic Spying Measure
The Justice Department has proposed a new domestic spying measure that would make it easier for state and local police to collect intelligence about Americans, share the sensitive data with federal agencies and retain it for at least ten years—this according to a report in the Washington Post. The proposed changes would apply to any of the nation’s 18,000 state and local police agencies that receive federal grants. Mike German of the American Civil Liberties Union criticized the plan. The former FBI agent said, “If police officers no longer see themselves as engaged in protecting their communities from criminals and instead as domestic intelligence agents working on behalf of the CIA, they will be encouraged to collect more information. It turns police officers into spies on behalf of the federal government.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/18/headlines
Russian Troops Remain in Georgian City
Russian troops with armored cars remained stationed in the Georgian city of Gori today despite Moscow’s pledge to withdraw from parts of the country. The Kremlin had announced that Russia would start pulling back today, but no specific time was given. While Russia has pledged to withdraw from Georgia, the Russian military has reportedly been moving short-range ballistic missile launchers into the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia. Meanwhile, the president of South Ossetia fired his government earlier today and declared a month-long emergency. On Friday, Senator John McCain suggested the situation in Georgia was a more serious crisis than the US invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan.
Sen. John McCain: “My friends, we have reached a crisis, the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression.”
President Bush accused Russia of bullying Georgia.
President Bush: “With its actions in recent days, Russia has damaged its credibility and its relations with the nations of the free world. Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the twenty-first century.”
Russia Threatens Poland Over US Missile Base
Meanwhile, tensions are increasing between Poland and Russia after Poland agreed to house a US missile base. On Friday, a top Russian general said Poland’s decision will expose Poland to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons.
When will we learn to keep our fingers out of other people’s pies?
Interesting development there, Sol. When I posted the rumor Friday that he would resign on or before the Pakistani parliament would take up the impeachment, I noted at the time “if true”. Seems it was true.
There are many implications to this, IMHO, both to the Pakistani people and to the broader foreign community. What’s your read on how this might affect U.S. -Pakistani relations, particularly with a view towards the existence of the Taliban and al Qaida groups in southern Pakistan? From what little I can discern, this is not necessarily a good thing for the NATO forces in Afghanistan. I’m a bit worried about the stability and safety of the nuclear weaponry that Pakistan possesses as well.
US Military Funds Mind Reading Researching
The US military has issued $4 million in grants to university researchers to study ways to read people’s thoughts. According to the Associated Press, the military says the research could someday lead to a gadget capable of translating the thoughts of soldiers who suffered brain injuries in combat or even stroke patients in hospitals. But critics say such mind-reading technology could be used during interrogations. The project is a collaboration among researchers at the University of California, Irvine; Carnegie Mellon University; and the University of Maryland.
Good to know where my tax dollars are being spent…
Mary, I applaud your comments in your letter to the editor. I was recently diagnosed with asthma and will have to go on lifetime maintenance for it if I want to breathe. I don’t have health insurance, as I’m self-employed and don’t make enough to pay what insurance companies want for premiums. I’ve never been a sick person and hadn’t seen a doctor for an illness for 7 years. That’s now changed, and I’ll be searching for the best and least expensive health care I can get in this fair city or another, if it takes that. I can pay, but not the exorbitant prices Big Pharm wants me to so they can have their pretty commercials and line their pockets with green stuff.
What’s your read on how this might affect U.S. -Pakistani relations
Not good in the least. We have been the puppet master for a while. Think the Pakistanis are sick of it. I say look for a religious leader to emerge. You can forget about raids into Pakistan now. While illegal before, they may be prosecuted in the future.
Again, when will we learn to keep our fingers out of other people’s pies.
As per the nuclear side, I think there will be much ado about nothing. Everyone knows that a nuclear first strike will guarantee oblivion.
Pre…
http://www.bcbsks.com/
A POW story told by John S (for Solzhenitsyn?) McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) at Saturday night’s presidential forum is eerily similar to one in “The Gulag Archipelago” Alexancer Solzhenitsyn’s personal account of his time in Soviet labor camps in the 1950s and 1960s.
Here’s what McCain told Saddleback Church’s Pastor Rick Warren last night — according to the unofficial transcript released by the church:
” It was Christmas Day, we were allowed to stand outside of our cell for a few minutes, and those days we were not allowed to see or communicate with each other although we certainly did. And I was standing outside for a few minutes, outside my cell. He came walking up. He stood there for a minute and with his handle [sic] on the dirt in the courtyard he drew a cross and he stood there and a minute later, he rubbed it out and walked away. For a minute there, there was just two Christians worshiping together. I’ll never forget that moment.”
Now check out how what Solzhenitsyn wrote in The Gulag Archipelago:
” Along with other prisoners, he worked in the fields day after day, in rain and sun, during summer and winter. His life appeared to be nothing more than backbreaking labor and slow starvation. The intense suffering reduced him to a state of despair.
On one particular day, the hopelessness of his situation became too much for him. He saw no reason to continue his struggle, no reason to keep on living. His life made no difference in the world. So he gave up.
Leaving his shovel on the ground, he slowly walked to a crude bench and sat down. He knew that at any moment a guard would order him to stand up, and when he failed to respond, the guard would beat him to death, probably with his own shovel. He had seen it happen to other prisoners.
As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work.
As Solzhenitsyn stared at the Cross drawn in the dirt his entire perspective changed. He knew he was only one man against the all-powerful Soviet empire. Yet he knew there was something greater than the evil he saw in the prison camp, something greater than the Soviet Union. He knew that hope for all people was represented by that simple Cross. Through the power of the Cross, anything was possible.
Solzhenitsyn slowly rose to his feet, picked up his shovel, and went back to work. Outwardly, nothing had changed. Inside, he had received hope.”
Isn’t it odd that McCain and Solzhenitsyn would have experienced such nearly identical events during their respective captivities? And note that Solzhenitsyn’s event happened well before McCain’s but wasn’t published until after his release.
But the coincidences get even more troubling.
First, know that McCain is a very big fan of Solzhenitsyn’s and is fond of referencing him.
In McCain’s 2007 book “Hard Call: Great Decisions and the Extraordinary People Who Made Them” McCain devotes an entire chapter to Solzhenitsyn and his experiences as recounted in The Gulag Archipelago.
In June 2005, after Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) found himself apologizing for likened FBI reports of military tactics used at Guantanamo Base to techniques used in Nazi Germany, the Soviet gulag and Pol Pot’s Cambodian “killing fields,” it was none other McCain who blasted Durbin publicly, offering this bit of advice during an appearance on Meet the Press:
“Senator Durbin owes not only the Senate an apology — I don’t know if censure would be in order — but an apology because it does a great disservice to men and women who suffered in the gulag and in Pol Pot’s killing fields. Dick Durbin should be required to read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s ‘Gulag Archipelago’ and I think that he may have a better understanding that there’s no comparison whatsoever. And it does a great disservice to the majority of men and women who are serving in Guantanamo who are doing the job that they’re told to do and they’re doing it in a humane fashion. To tar the American servicemen and women with a brush that applies to the gulag or the killing fields is a great disservice to the men and women in the military who are serving honorably down there.”
Also, after Solzhenitsyn passed away a few weeks ago, The New York Sun published an excerpt from McCain’s own book (Hard Call) regarding Solzhenitsyn as an op-ed tribute.
Could these be pure coincidences? I suppose.
But many have pointed out a number of another eyebrow-raising discoveries. Top of that list is the fact that upon his release as a POW, McCain penned a 12,000 word reflection of his experiences for U.S. News & World Report. Yet, even though McCain goes into a lot of detail in that story and mentions religion a few times, there is no mention of the cross in the sand story, even though it would have fitted in well with the whole narrative.
In 1974 McCain spoke at a prayer breakfast with then-Governor Ronald Reagan and tells a stirring story about seeing words about Christ while a POW, but fails to mention the very relevant cross in the sand story.
Even more problematic is that McCain’s own account of that Christmas shows him moving from the prison:
” In December of 1969 I was moved from “The Pentagon” [he means "The Plantation" camp] over to “Las Vegas.” “Las Vegas” was a small area of Hoala Prison which was built by the French in 1945.”
Furthermore, it seems that McCain’s own telling of this story has now changed a good deal. Here’s what Beliefnet.com’s Steven Waldman wrote:
McCain tells the cross in the sand story in his 1999 memoir, Faith of My Fathers:
“We both stood wordlessly looking at the cross until, after a minute or two, he rubbed it out and walked away. I saw my good Samaritan often after the Christmas when we venerated the cross together.”
In his campaign ad in December, he adds mention of “the true light of Christmas”:
“We stood wordlessly looking at the cross, remembering the true light of Christmas. I will never forget that no matter where you are, no matter how difficult the circumstances, there will always be someone who will pick you up.”
At the Saddleback Civil Forum:
“For a minute there, it was just two Christians worshipping together.”
The story has gradually morphed from being about the humanity of the guard to being about the Christian faith of the guard and John McCain.
Finally, be mindful that this isn’t the first time this year that McCain has been called out for playing fast and loose with his POW experience. Recall this effort by McCain to change his POW story last month:
Here’s what McCain said on Pittsburgh radio yesterday:
“When I was first interrogated and really had to give some information because of the physical pressures that were on me, I named the starting lineup — defensive line — of the Pittsburgh Steelers as my squadron-mates!”
Here’s what McCain wrote in his book, Faith of my Fathers:
” Pressed for more useful information, I gave the names of the Green Bay Packers’ offensive line, and said they were members of my squadron.”
A Lexis/Nexis search about McCain’s captivity reveals all of them showed-up naming the Green Bay Packers.
What is going on here? Did McCain lie to Pastor Rick Warren in a church this weekend about his POW experience in an attempt to kiss-up to Evangelicals who are already very concerned about his bona fides on faith and religion? Could there have been a worse venue and context for such a lie?
But the big question is whether our feckless national media will even bother following-up on this troubling development as they did with by promoting the GOP-pushed meme of exaggerations by Al Gore in 2000 or John Kerry’s Vietnam War experiences in 2004 as the Swift Boat liars peddled?
I suspect American journalism is in such a sorry state these days that they won’t bother devoting equal time and resources to something so potentially explosive in 2008. I hope I’m wrong…
(Turns out that the first instance of McCain being called out for this was in 2005 by the right wingers over at Free Republic.)
OK, if you need a bigger sign than this…
Groom Hit By Lightning On Wedding Day
EVERGREEN, Colo. — An Evergreen man escaped serious injury after he was hit by lightning just hours before he was to be married.
Mike Speck said he was in his back yard getting ready for a pre-wedding party when the lightning bolt hit.
“It was so bright,” Speck told 7NEWS. “You can hear the electricity go ‘Zzzzzz.’”
The 54-year-old contractor was stunned and shaken, but still alive. Speck said the same bolt hit the house next door, setting it on fire.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/17215849/detail.html
“Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to affordable health care.”
Just where did Mary say FREE health care?
“Why stop there?”
Every American should have a right to free beer.
And it cannot be a cheap beer. It must be a high quality beer. None of this lite beer stuff. And it must be an American brewer (this would exclude the popular but tasteless Bud).
I would suggest:
Sam Adams Boston Lager
Shiner Bock
I know we certainly enjoy all those things, but do they fall into the category of ‘rights’?
I believe health care falls under the “LIFE” right. People DIE because they can’t afford health care in this country. Why? When we’re supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world, why is our infant mortality rate lower than some third-world countries?
I don’t expect free health care, but I am totally not in favor of funding the wealth of others. I guess you are.
Ah, but Sol, Pre has a preexisting condition (asthma); how long, if ever, will she need to wait before coverage for the condition becomes available (with her paying both the premium and the out of pocket costs for treatment and medications before any benefits become available); how much greater will the underwriters determine her premium will need to be? These are issues that affect many folks, not just her.
Yes, one could say she should have always had coverage; I understand that. I can also see where an individual who is in good health might not see paying the premiums as being as important as food, basic utitlities, etc., when evaluating the costs and benefits in light of a limited amount of income. From an earlier post or two of yours, I have gathered that you have elected to be “self-employed” and obtain your own coverage independently, which one can do at a lower (much lower in many cases) when one is young and in good health. Not wanting to pry, but say you develop a chronic illness; will you still enjoy the same premium, will your insurer decide to drop you as an insured? Remember, you are, as best I can determine, on an individual policy, without some of the legal safeguards one has when a member of a group plan sponsored by an employer.
Arctic ice refuses to melt as ordered
There’s something rotten north of Denmark
By Steven Goddard ? More by this author
Published Friday 15th August 2008 10:02 GMT
Just a few weeks ago, predictions of Arctic ice collapse were buzzing all over the internet. Some scientists were predicting that the “North Pole may be ice-free for first time this summer”. Others predicted that the entire “polar ice cap would disappear this summer”.
The Arctic melt season is nearly done for this year. The sun is now very low above the horizon and will set for the winter at the North Pole in five weeks. And none of these dire predictions have come to pass. Yet there is, however, something odd going on with the ice data.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/
Pre I know my advise won’t be appreciated but ask your physician for free inhalers and asthma medication. You are the classic case for free medication from big pharma. Practically every big drug company has this program in place.
Linda I am curious what your sons feelings on price caps on medications are. If we reduce the cost what happens to the $25 million grants for research. Other countries have the benefit of our research dollars and pay less than we do. If we force the profit margins down on pharma what then happens to research.
You know, if the ice is melting, why is their an Icebreaker Ship Shortage?
August 16, 2008, 3:48 pm
The ‘Icebreaker Gap’ Up North
By Andrew C. Revkin
The story describes how Russia has been expanding its fleet of 14 vessels able to churn through sea ice up to 10 feet thick, seven of them nuclear powered.
The issue is being cast to some extent as an “icebreaker gap,” although none of the experts I interviewed sees the need for more than three functioning American vessels of this sort. But it’s hard to find anyone focused on national security, maritime and environmental safety, and polar science who isn’t worried about the status quo.
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/the-icebreaker-gap-up-north/
will you still enjoy the same premium, will your insurer decide to drop you as an insured?
Unknown. I am currently uninsured. Working with a broker. I will ask him about previous chronic illness.
Check out the word “welfare” in the Preamble of our great Constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
“promote the general Welfare”
This, and the next part of the Preamble, are the culmination of everything that came before it – the whole point of having tranquility, justice, and defense was to promote the general welfare – to allow every state and every citizen of those states to benefit from what the government could provide. The framers looked forward to the expansion of land holdings, industry, and investment, and they knew that a strong national government would be the beginning of that.
This, would most certainly, include beer.
I worked for these folks for a bit in Charlotte, NC. They work with several entities to get health care (mostly meds) to folks using every available discount. Many drug companies work with them as well. I only wrote some of the code for some of the projects, so I won’t claim 100% knowledge, but give them a shot.
http://www.lashgroup.com/
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_d2dzx
“general welfare” – to allow every state and every citizen of those states to benefit from what the government could provide.
The government could provide beer.
I’m sure the Treasury will have sufficient funds for that. If not, raise the tax levies so that we can all enjoy free quality beer.
Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 9:02 am | Permalink
Last week, a worker at the Salina Hawker Beechcraft strike was struck by a vehicle- on purpose- and the worker who drove into the man is still in his job.
I just read that another striker in wichita was KILLED when hit by a vehicle. If the person who hit him was a worker not on strike, do you suppose they’ll let him keep working even though he just murdered someone?
Salina Beechcraft should be sued for allowing the first one to go back to work- since apparently they think that they can all just hit the strikers now with no consequences.
——————–
Well Pmom I just heard on the news that this latest person was ‘murdered’ by a fellow union worker going to the same rally.
I say hang him from the yard arm. No leniency. I say do it today before the sun goes down so no one can yell prejuidice.
AmWay, I think you have got something very big posted up there!
Free Beer!
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare…”
“Welfare” is whatever the Socialists want to be free. Therefore, BEER certainly can and very well should be one of the FREE BASIC NECESSITIES of LIFE for all of us.
And the 21st Amendment, repealing Prohibition, certainly and most clearly defines the overwhelming NEED for BEER.
There’s no such provision that is as clear for Abortion, but I CAN have BEER per my Constitooshunional rights!!!!
Our Constitution was written by bible believers. At the time, they had the King James Version text.
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. Mr. Luke.
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities. ”
Mr Timothy.
Now everyone knows that wine and beer are fine (liquour will make you sicker).
So God, and the founders of our great Country intended us to have FREE BEER included and provided as part of the general welfare provision.
Well okobserver, since the driver was UNION, it’s ok.
“Welfare” is whatever the Socialists want to be free. Therefore, BEER certainly can and very well should be one of the FREE BASIC NECESSITIES of LIFE for all of us.”
Of course Max (as I raise my beer to you), that is my core belief. We are ENTITLED TO FREE BEER.
“The government could provide beer.”
Why not? We’d all vote for it . . .
Seriously, I have the beginning of an idea re: health care rolling around in my head, but I freely admit I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to know if it could work. If workable, it is probably (I say here probably) acceptable to both liberals and many conservatives, though probably (there’s that word again) not a perfect solution for either.
BTW – that’s called compromise, and it’s a necessary prerequisite to accomplishing almost anything.
The idea is, however, more that can be reasonably discussed on a blog. Certainly not this one, with so many concerned with scoring “points” on other bloggers. It would require serious discussion with others of good faith. There are damn few of those here, unfortunately.
I think everyperson has a moral responsibility to treat their brother’s wounds. Now, If you are too tight_assed to agree, so be it. Keep your arms around your little piece of the pie and hold on tight!
Those were excellent questions, Vaughn. Could you elaborate when you have time as to the advantages/disadvantages of the “mutual” vs. “stock” companies?
I am going to do something I don’t usually do and that is defend insurance companies. It is not really like insurance companies are these amorphous bodies out there independently determing what your health coverage will be. Your employer who pays a good part of your healthcare benefit tells insurance companies the level of coverage you will get as their employee. Who one works for is still under a person’s control. In some people’s case the plus/minus columns may add up to taking less salary, but greater healthcare coveage.
Free-market pressures can and do exert influence on overall medical care spending. During a large part of the 20th century there has been more socialized forces in the market, think of Medicare. The system has thus for a long time had both market and socialized aspects involved and I suspect finding the right balance will be addressed in years to come.
I start with the proposition that no one, who is in Mary’s position should be denied healthcare coverage because of healthcare utilization history. This would be an ideal, I would like to see this examined in terms of the best way to handle it.
Our Medicare costs are going to skyrocket as baby boomers retire. Given the National debt and deficit, some limitations on this spending will have to be considered unless we want our grandchildren to have grossly unfair burdens.
It should be interesting times ahead.
Heck GMC, give everyone free booze, and we won’t need free healthcare.
Max, someone mentioned free CARS, but I didn’t think that would be near as fun.
But then again, everyone NEEDS a car. So maybe that would be a very good item this nation should provide to promote the general welfare.
But it wouldn’t mix with my entitlement to free beer very well.
Say AmWay, under the Welfare Clause, can’t we get everything we want for free?
I mean, it’s the Government paying for it, and Government is so rich it can take care of all of us!
I don’t think public transportation is working.
Give all souls a car!
Thanks, VT, and Sol, too. okobserver, thank you.
Sol, I’ve previously checked out bcbs. Not doable.
I’m going to check out all options this week. I have a month’s supply of meds, thanks to the good people at the Wichita Clinic. (Maybe I should’ve told them I worked there, long ago. :) )
Sedgwick County is currently doing what it can for the uninsured and the underinsured. I HAVE been checking these things out as time has gone by, not ignoring it, because I knew something–anything–could happen. It isn’t that I don’t want to pay, I just don’t have it all the time. 3 businesses, yet there are good times and not so good. I have to plan for the not so good. Such is life.
Funny how when I was married and the kids were young, we had excellent insurance, the majority of it paid by employers. The only time we met the $200 deductible was when I was pregnant and gave birth. We didn’t and still don’t go to the doctor for grins and giggles.
Thanks for your suggestions, all. I do appreciate them.
Absolutely true Max. Absolutely true.
As a nation we should be able to provide everything a human body needs to function.
Most of that, could be provided by technology today. They just have to figure out how to plug us all in.
There is a radio program on every Saturday at 12pm on 1330am. It is called the Health Care Advocate. He outlines several different ways people can be insured at affordable prices. This might be a place to start.
I have a friend who hasn’t carried full care insurance for the last 15 years. She pays out of pocket for day to day healthcare. She carries catostrophic insurance however. This is affordable for her and her husband. When her expenses exceed $5000 the insurance kicks in. She has saved thousands in this way.
I want free:
Houses
Cars
Beers
Clothing
Wine
Women
Song
Drugs
Healthcare
Back Rubs/Massages
Football tickets
Baseball tickets
Airplane tickets
Cruise tickets
Oh, and Food.
But then again, everyone NEEDS a car.
I disagree. And if we had better public transportation, even fewer would NEED a car.
I was in NYC (Manhattan) in 2003 and had the subway system figured out in no time. I don’t mind walking, either, and did a lot of that. Back home in Wichita, I still haven’t figured out our bus system! I have walked many times, when a car wasn’t available and was probably better for it, but I’m not walking three grandkids to and from school three times a day, five days a week! :)
CapnAmerica,
Since you seem to be so interested in helping others, why don’t you and Mary get together and pay for BlueJays health insurance.
Actually, I bet all of you liberals could get together and pool your money to provide every other liberal here with health insurance.
Why don’t you?
Steven and Ben and Mary alone are all professionals who could easily afford it.
Well?
CapnAmerica, my father and I are both generous people. Jesus was speaking to individual actions, not making the government force people to pay for others.
So lets see your compasion.
Steven, the “advantages/disadvantages” to stock vs. mutual insurance companies are often in the eye of the beholder. The general difference is (and I am by far not an expert on this) is that a mutual company is owned by the policy holders; any “profit” is often returned to the policy holders in the form of reduced premium. If the company needs to raise additional capital, then premiums increase, as mutual companies generally cannot go out to the market for investment. A stock company, on the other hand, is one that issues stock in return for investment in the company. It pays out its profits, if you will, in the form of dividends to the stockholders. Because it is a stock company, to obtain additional funds, it can go out to the market for the same; again, it may be argued that this insulates, a bit, the policy holders from dramatic increases in premiums should the company need to build its reserves, the price for which will be higher premiums, to be sure, in order to compensate the investors by dividend payments, but not as high at any one time as a mutual company might need to charge to achieve the capital needed.
Freely admit that the above is overly simplified, and overly general, but that is how the two forms of companies work. There has been an increase, over the last two decades or so, of formerly mutual companies becoming stock companies, as there have been needs of the insurers to replenish capital, and that conversion has been seen as the best way, overall, to accomplish that task.
Nathan – I might just look into providing health insurance for someone if you will cover my share of the costs of Bush’s elective wars.
“to and from school three times a day, five days a week”
You wouldn’t need free healthcare if you did. You’d be in perfect health. Well, maybe not mentally.
I’m wondering how you liberals think that allowing the government to ruin the best health care delivery system in the world is compassionate.
nitwits
Oh, and I forgot:
Satellite TV
Cable TV
Free TV’s & DVD Players/Recorders
Free Stereos
Guns
Bullets
Fishing poles
Fishing boats
Furniture – LazyBoy Recliners
Shoes
Toothpaste
TP
PT
Kleenex
Soap
Dogs (cats are free now)
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 18, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
Heck GMC, give everyone free booze, and we won’t need free healthcare.
—
Max, I didn’t say free. There is no such thing as free. There never was. There never will be.
Cell phones
PC’s
Printers
ATV’s (for the hunting)
Chainsaws
Magazines
Newspapers
“Every American, regardless of circumstance, should have the right to health care.AND housing AND food AND utilities AND communications.” BLUEJAY
See if BlueJay can throw in “communications” as something our Constitution allows a government to pay, I most certainly feel justified with my ENTITLEMENT to beer.
I know BJ would never have to leave the house if he had free internet service/hardware. But at least with beer – you gotta go out at least to the local 7-11.
ANWR = 1 year supply for someone – Are republicans being untruthful?
“Alaska has more oil than the Middle East!”
Have you heard that there’s enough oil in Alaska to supply the United States for the next two centuries, more than in the entire Middle East, but a government plot is keeping it underground? If so, attribute it to Lindsey Williams, a kind of oil evangelist, who’s been making these claims since the 1970s.
Back then, Williams coauthored a book, “The Energy Non Crisis,” asserting that vast political machinations were preventing oil companies from exploiting Alaska’s riches. Today he’s on YouTube, saying Alaska has “possibly the largest oil pool on the face of the earth,” which remains untapped “by order of the government.” New drilling, Williams suggests, will lower gas prices within 12 months. If you like implausible oil stories, this is for you. One of Williams’ YouTube clips has been viewed nearly 500,000 times, and a generic version of the story holds that Alaska has more oil than the Arabian peninsula.
Now consider reality on Alaska’s North Slope, the oil area that includes the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. It can take two or three years to drill a single exploratory well there, because such drilling is only possible for a few months at a time in the winter, when the permafrost is frozen hard enough to support equipment. Meanwhile, infrastructure can be transported there only by ship, in two or three summer months. To drill permanent wells, oil companies lay down a thick gravel “pad,” acres in size, which allows for year-round drilling, by keeping equipment and housing safe from summer thaws and preventing them from melting the permafrost. Pipeline corrosion problems have been extensive. The EIA forecasts that if Congress opened up ANWR, it would take eight to 12 years to even start production.
Does this sound like a place that will produce more oil than the Middle East? Alaska is about the same size as Iran, four-fifths as big as Saudi Arabia, and huge portions of the state consist of mountain ranges where drilling is impossible. The EIA estimates that about 10.4 billion barrels of oil can be recovered from ANWR, just over a year of American consumption. Saudi Arabia alone has about 260 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. The verdict here: Get real.
http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/08/18/oil_myths/
jewelry (gold & silver & diamonds)
GPS
Wristwatches
Make-up
Breast Implants
Botox for wrinkles
Botox for big lips
Candy Corn
“I’m wondering how you liberals think that allowing the government to ruin the best health care delivery system in the world is compassionate.”
Don’t you get it HLP? The COST doesn’t matter!
It’s not just economic costs. To be fair to all – all must suffer the SAME quality in life.
Dumbing down all over again.
It does not matter that:
280,000,000 Americans have healthcare insurance.
(maybe higher)
It doesn’t matter than over 90 percent of the American people HAVE healthcare.
GMC70
Posted August 18, 2008 at 12:33 pm | Permalink
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 18, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
Heck GMC, give everyone free booze, and we won’t need free healthcare.
—
Max, I didn’t say free. There is no such thing as free. There never was. There never will be.
———————————————————————————–
What? Oh, you saw thru the Parody of Free Stuff.
Agreed, but a serious debate on this blog GMC, are you serious?
Ben,
Well, If you and I go back and forth subtracting all your liberal taxes vs the war cost I think you will still end up owing more.
So, why don’t you and the Capn get together to pay for BlueJays health insurance?
You wouldn’t need free healthcare if you did. You’d be in perfect health. Well, maybe not mentally.
You have a point in both. But just when would I work? One does have to sleep. :) (I already work nights and weekends.)
So earthdoctor,
Just how much will gas cost if we don’t drill what’s left?
Just how much sooner will we run out of oil?
The argument that “there is not enough” will never BE enough.
Mary,
I love how one day you can sit there and talk about how you earned thethings you have and worked for them and then the next you want the government to take from you to pay for BlueJay.
Why don’t you just go ahead and pay for BlueJay now, until you get the government to.
Do the right thing. Sell your airplane, stop expanding on your home, move out of your “gated” community and into something less arrogant and rich so that you can provide health care to others.
Gasoline
Diesel
Fishing bait
Fishing tackle
Lectricity
Nahtual Gas
Rubbers
Tires
If BJ and his ilk are the only ones ‘without’ healthcare I agree with him we owe him.
After hearing last night how evil I am for expecting honesty from other bloggers I am turning over a new leaf. Let them eat cake!!
Oh wait I got a little off topic. Our country owes the BJ and Mary’s and Pmoms of the world healthcare. I for one say let them have it.
Only when we all have the same coverage will we really appreaciate what we lost er… I mean gained.
okobserver
Posted August 18, 2008 at 12:07 pm | Permalink
Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 9:02 am | Permalink
Last week, a worker at the Salina Hawker Beechcraft strike was struck by a vehicle- on purpose- and the worker who drove into the man is still in his job.
I just read that another striker in wichita was KILLED when hit by a vehicle. If the person who hit him was a worker not on strike, do you suppose they’ll let him keep working even though he just murdered someone?
Salina Beechcraft should be sued for allowing the first one to go back to work- since apparently they think that they can all just hit the strikers now with no consequences.
——————–
Well Pmom I just heard on the news that this latest person was ‘murdered’ by a fellow union worker going to the same rally.
I say hang him from the yard arm. No leniency. I say do it today before the sun goes down so no one can yell prejuidice.
————————-
Well. Quite a bit of jumping to conclusions, don’t ya think. Peruse the info available on this incident and tell me, if there is ANY evidence at all that 1) the driver acted intentionally, or 2) that either the company or the workers was behind the incident.
Go ahead, look. I have. You’ll find NONE. Think it might be a good idea to actually get some FACTS? Huh?
Of course, this is the WEBlog, where wildly unsupportable charges and speculation are the norm. Even the ‘journalists’ (and I use that word loosely) engage in it.
Yeesh.
As Americans are becoming, if not already have become, the most obese people in the world.
Being fat is unhealthy. It costs more in health care.
Are you prepared to have to pay for other peoples bad choices?
Should we force fat people to lose weight to get government health care?
What about smokers and drinkers?
Why should we pay for other peoples bad choices?
Yeah, I get free health care, while I am actively serving, in the military. However, the military ensures that I stay in good shape. I run, eat well, and workout. I am not fat.
Will we force everyone else to do the same?
Hank you know full well the US is NOT the best run health delivery system in the world…not even for the well insured.
STOP LYING.
we already do nathan, in one way or another we already do.
Yep, right now you are too!
Thanks, Vaughn.
There was a very successful patient owned healthcare delivery system in Seattle called “Group Health” that worked on the model of the “mutual” company you describe. It started in the 1950’s I believe.
Here’s a link to Group Health:
http://www.ghc.org/
I think the either/or purely socialized or exclusively market-driven approaches are not realistic.
GMC I got the information from another blog, and it was stated as if it were the actions of another worker. I’d apologize but I’ve found that anytime I do- the ones who NEVER apologize when they are wrong will use it to beat me over the head with.
In my defense, I did say “IF” the driver was one who worked at the plant and not striking.
Ouija Board
UFO Finder
Tin Foil Hats
Bigger Money Tree
Money Tree Fertilizer
Pool Table
Backyard Swimming Pool (in the ground type)
Diving Board
Jakoozi
Outdoor wet bar
Bbq Grill
Charcoal
Lighter Fluid
Propane
Matches
Tobacco
Bic Lighters
Train tickets
Butterfly net
Fishing net
Well actually Nathan in New Zealand one of the best socialized medical plans around a newly wed couple were not allowed to join the program until they lost weight.
I expect that if we looked closely at several countries free health plans we would find this ’same’ discrimination placed on other unhealthy lifestyles such as smoking.
GMC I hope you did know I wrote the Hawker post tongue in cheek. When the word murderer is used so loosely it just raises my hackles.
okobserer –
Point taken.
Cell phone: 50 dollars to 100 dollars a month
Cable TV: 50 dollars
Internet: 20 dollars to 50 dollars
Eating out: 100-300 dollars a month
Basic Health care: 200 dolalrs a month
Now, even if you have kids and a wife, that will raise the cost maybe a 100 dollars or a bit more.
If you need a quote here you go, fill out the questions and you will have about 20 companies call you in the next 12 hours:
http://www.affordable-health-insurance-plans.org/ahip/index.php?wsc=51&adv=1&pt=&kw=affordable+health+insurance&tk=Z29vZ2xlLGRvbWFpbnNfMSxBRkZPUkRBQkxFLUhFQUxUSC1JTlNVUkFOQ0UtUExBTlMuT1JHLGFmZm9yZGFibGUgaGVhbHRoIGluc3VyYW5jZSxhZmZvcmRhYmxlIGhlYWx0aCBpbnN1cmFuY2U%3d&prod=
Dart board
Darts
Axe
Sledge Hammer
Videos
Orange juice
Tang
Cake
Ice Cream
Figgy Puddin
Puntang
Cameras
Basketball hoops
Basketballs
#
Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 12:44 pm | Permalink
Hank you know full well the US is NOT the best run health delivery system in the world…not even for the well insured.
STOP LYING.
______________________________________________
Name one better. Then explain why.
When one pays an insurance premium, one is indirectly at least paying for bad (or good) choices of others, and others are paying for the bad (or good) choices of any other insured. Premiums are based on underwriting risk, actuarially determined. People who have made bad choices are penalized, a bit, for the same by higher premium, but not as much as they might otherwise be if everyone’s premium was calculated on an individual basis (which is likely impossible to do, without a complete listing of genetic information, such as succeptibility in women to, e.g., breast cancer because of carrying the BRCA1 genetic marker). Most of us don’t want to know, I believe, if we are carrying a gene for a fatal illness (no citation, but a test for Huntington’s disease has been around a while; many, I’ve read, who have reason to be tested refuse, because “they don’t want to know”).
And, it is not always a matter of “choices”; no one of my acquaintance would choose to be a Huntington’s patient; to be stricken by breast cancer; and a multitude of other genetically caused disease. Rather, it is up to the actuaries to determine the probabilities, and adjust premiums accordingly.
You all complaining about Healthcare Insurance should really be more concerned about the declining number of American Doctors and primary care physicians in particular.
What good is insurance if you can’t find a doctor?
And as America ages, we will need more doctors – not fewer. Perhaps we should be seeing medical schools which receive federal funding – start providing us more American doctors.
Just a taste of what’s out there:
“America’s population continues to grow, but with fewer students choosing family practice, the number of family physicians won’t keep up,” said AAFP President Richard Roberts, M.D., J.D. “The result will be more subspecialists trained to care for individual health problems–but not enough doctors trained to care for the whole person or the whole family.”
In the 2003 graduating classes of U.S. medical schools, of 14,332 matched graduates, only 47 seniors opted for residency training in primary care pediatrics, 192 matched into primary care internal medicine, and 258 matched into combined internal medicine and pediatric residencies. The number of U.S. graduates entering family medicine dropped to 1,234, barely one half of 1997 numbers. Most graduating medical doctors opted for more specialized fields or for programs in internal medicine or pediatrics that provide the opportunity to subspecialize.
http://www.graham-center.org/x468.xml
The number of U.S. public health workers has significantly declined during the past two decades, endangering the nation’s public health capacity, according to the first enumeration of the work force in more than 20 years.
The 2000 enumeration, conducted by the Center for Health Policy at the Columbia University School of Nursing, shows one public health worker for every 635 people in the United States and its territories, a decrease from the 1970s ratio of one worker for every 457 people.
Physician Incomes Declining While People Use Them More
Physician incomes are falling.
WASHINGTON, DC—In sharp contrast to other professionals, physicians’ net income from the practice of medicine declined about 7 percent between 1995 and 2003 after adjusting for inflation, according to a national study released today by the Center for Studying Health System Change (HSC).
“The downward trend in real incomes since the mid-1990s likely is an important driver of growing physician unwillingness to provide such pro bono work as charity care and serving on hospital committees,” said Paul B. Ginsburg, Ph.D., coauthor of the study and president of HSC, a nonpartisan policy research organization funded principally by The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.
The decline in physicians’ real income stands in sharp contrast to the wage trends for other professionals who saw about a 7 percent increase between 1995 and 2003 after adjusting for inflation, the study found.
Among different types of physicians, primary care physicians fared the worst with a 10.2 percent decline in real income between 1995 and 2003, while surgeons’ real income declined by 8.2 percent. But medical specialists’ real income essentially remained unchanged.”
Footballs
Baseballs
Gloves
Tennis rackets
Nets
Badmitten sets
Croquet sets
Lawn Dart sets
Ginzoo Knives
Popcorn Maker
Popcorn
Toaster
Microwave
Shower Massager
I had seen that before, AmericanWay. It is, IMO, the PCP who gets squeezed the hardest by things such as insurance company reimbursement policies, etc. No, I don’t have a solution, only a recognition of the problem.
We want the doc’s to work for free,
and get free health insurance.
Sometimes free doesn’t provide the best product available.
I understand skimping on a cheap watch, or a cheap car, or even cheap beer.
But when it comes to healthcare – I want the BEST.
How much is your LIFE worth?
If college tuition was free, and medical schools weren’t so hard, and the hours weren’t so long, we’d have more doctors.
Rural Doctors? What?
They still have “rural” doctors?
HA-HA!
But, but we are ENTITLED to it. It should all be FREE!
Say anyone notice there are lot’s of doctors with Indian names or Pakistan? Not many Smith’s left.
And the Marcus Welby’s are a thing of the past.
Wonder why that is?
VT in the insurance industry the company is also required to maintain a reserve equal to several times the amount of claims paid out on an annual basis. This would make some companies look assest rich while they might be only marginally legal. Some are also structured to be ‘non profit’ and pay no taxes because no stock holders receive dividends. These companies often have large real estate holdings under a subsidiary company. I think this should be looked at and corrected.
This is the reason companies are required to file an annual report listing such reserves.
On its face insurance appears to be making money hand over fist. Executives make too much in my view but then how much should they make and who gets to decide.
AmericanWay, your post about wanting the BEST is illustrative of the inelasticity of price demand for medical care. We all want the best available when it comes to our lives, and cost be damned. So, when the cost for the best exceeds the ability of the average person to afford, what now? Again, no solution, just recognition that it is not a problem with a simple solution.
Pretty soon you will have to take an interpreter with you when you go see a doctor, so you can understand what he tells you.
English may be shot even as a second language.
Some try, but they sound just like the guy who answers the HELP LINE in the customer service department for my computer.
Hope it’s not the same guy operating.
Max,
I was laughing until I read
Candy Corn
Fishing lures
Hell fire, son, Where do I get in line????
Damnit. Will I still have to buy a fishing license? Fishing should be a God given right. Don’t make me pay to get a line wet….
Hell fire, I’ll go you one better. If I spend my time fishing, I should be guaranteed a bass or brookie. Have some government agent underwater hook one up for me if I don’t get lucky on my own.
Again, no solution, just recognition that it is not a problem with a simple solution.
It’s not a problem for me avotlle, nor for 279,999,999 other Americans with Health Insurance.
I’m willing to pay more for medicine than anything else in life. I recognize my health, my body, and my families – is the most precious thing in life.
It’s not a commodity like Auto Insurance to me. I don’t expect to pay like it’s just another insurance either.
SolDevVB
Posted August 18, 2008 at 11:25 am | Permalink
Justice Dept Proposes New Domestic Spying Measure
The Justice Department has proposed a new domestic spying measure that would make it easier for state and local police to collect intelligence about Americans, share the sensitive data with federal agencies and retain it for at least ten years—this according to a report in the Washington Post. The proposed changes would apply to any of the nation’s 18,000 state and local police agencies that receive federal grants. Mike German of the American Civil Liberties Union criticized the plan. The former FBI agent said, “If police officers no longer see themselves as engaged in protecting their communities from criminals and instead as domestic intelligence agents working on behalf of the CIA, they will be encouraged to collect more information. It turns police officers into spies on behalf of the federal government.”
—–
Remember the other day when I asked at what point a good german would have denounced the actions of Nazi germany in order to avoid the outcome of such horrific policies?
Well we’ve passed that point long ago in America, and anyone who continues to support cons are equal to the nazis that defended and aided in the actions of their leader.
I understand skimping on …cheap beer.
BLASPHEMY !!!!
Ok, that’s about it for the Common Welfare list of necessities, which Government should provide all of us for free.
If there’s anything I missed, please feel free to add to the list. Otherwise, there should probably be a few things you have to actually work for yuh self, as opposed to getting for free. Those items would include…..
…No time now, I’ll have to come back later and list those things which you should have to actually work and pay for yuh self.
I really don’t think doctors are hurting for money in the US. Our doctor still has the biggest house in town, and while listening to another doctor giving a person thinking about going to medical school advice- he said that you can go nearly tuition free with all the govt programs available for that.
So- if they’re getting their education free, why not give back?
One issue that has been raised about the overall costs of insurance (medical, property, all other lines) is that the reserves that are legally required to be retained as okobserver posts are invested to earn as large a return as is possible, keeping in mind the need for those investments to be “safe”. When the returns from investments in stock markets, or other assets fall, the companies will increase premiums to make up for the shortfall.
Again, should there be examination of how insurance companies conduct their businesses? Yes, there should be; should there be restrictions on executive compensation? That goes against my grain; but should it be examined? Yes, it should.
BTW, if one suffers from insomnia, may I suggest reading the very arcane provisions of the Internal Revenue Code covering taxation of insurance companies as a non-habit forming treatment for the same? I never get more than one or two pages into it before I’m out for the night. :-)
Sol I think game wardens will become a thing of the past. It is our right to hunt and fish so how can we be cited for illegal practices. I mean spot lighting a deer might be my only chance to get one and I do have a family to feed.
If I am expecting a crowd over to eat next week then I’ll need a lot of fish to feed them. Forget limits.
There we have saved the government money by eleminating several jobs. Probably do away with the entire department of the interior. We could all become Ted Nugents.
Lots of wild turkeys down Derby way for anyone needing to feed the family today. Dont’t needs seasons anymore. It is my right to hunt when I’m hungry.
Political_mama,
They work harder, studied more, and have to know more to be able to proivde for you.
What more do you want them to give?
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
France is the number 1 provider of healthcare.
Ok Sol, your items were added to the list.
Any others?
Well we’ve passed that point long ago in America, and anyone who continues to support cons are equal to the nazis that defended and aided in the actions of their leader.
How politically blind of you.
Obama Supports FISA Legislation
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html
With FISA Law, Democrats Give Bush a Blank Check for Domestic Spying
http://www.alternet.org/rights/59406/
Hoyer hails FISA bill as “a significant victory for the Democratic Party”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/24/hoyer/
Remember those fold-out fan things they used to have in church before there was air conditioning? They had pretty pictures on em.
They should be free too. The ole ladies used em, but I liked em too!
Ohhh, and Red Ryder wagons and Trikes and Bikes, they should be on the list too.
Bazooka bubble gum
Dental care……
Ladies and Gentlemen of the WEBLOG, may I present the most “Archie Bunker” stereotype, and unintelligent post of the day:
“Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink
I really don’t think doctors are hurting for money in the US. Our doctor still has the biggest house in town,”
Gee: I think my auto repairman makes ENOUGH money.
Let’s cut his salary!!!!
We are justified because he has a BIGGER house than me.
Sorry, but the post is as stupid as I have ever seen.
Gee, I wonder how hard it is to get to be a medical doctor?
Must be a lot harder then getting to be an LPN or an RN. I heard that’s pretty hard too, and not everyone can be an LPN or an RN.
Gotta be smart.
And work long hours.
Not too many people would take a pay cut if they was that bright and could cure ya of diseases and stuff like that.
Yeah, they pay Doctors more then RN’s or LPN’s for some reason. And if you can’t get your RN or LPN or PA, then you don’t earn nearly as much money if you be as bright as a medical doctor.
Wonder why that is.
“Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink
I really don’t think doctors are hurting for money in the US.”
I just posted a source that shows the REAL INCOME is declining (up to 10%) in comparison to other professionals.
Let me see: HEY ANYONE! YOU WHO!!!
If your income declines – do you think that means you are NOT hurting?
If your income declines: You are OK with that?
(She will NEVER understand the ramifications of salary/workload on the declining number of primary care physicians. That would be WAY over her head. Zooooooooooooooooooooom!)
If ya can’t get your LPN degree then you make peanuts.
Hard to buy a big new fancy house with peanuts.
I wish I had more peanuts.
Well I say we need to crack down on those maria types in N Kansas City. Have you seen some of those mansions.
And my plumber lives a whole lot better than I do. But thats OK I dont want his job for all the money in the world.
And Max those fans were usually furnished by the local funeral homes. Now with socialized healthcare life expectancy will be heading down. This might be insensitive.
Envy, is it a sin to envy?
Is there a preacher on this web site who might know?
Coveting is that the same thing as envy? Sinful too, I bet.
Say, I think all women should be equally pretty. Can we get plastic surgeons to make that happen? (as part of free national healthcare as persuant to the Welfare Clause, ya know.)
Never mind, we have a doctor shortage, darn it!
Max…thanks for the humor! I totally agree…except on the beer part, I don’t drink. Can I request diet Pepsi instead?
Well Max now we will have to add sex change operations to the list. There will be complaints.
except on the beer part
Can I request diet Pepsi instead?
Freakin COMMIES !!!!!
Well if Raptor gets diet pepsi I want diet cherry zero. And I am adicted to those little garlic croutons I can only get at Sams. Could we add those?
Max, are pretty women usually rich? Don’t they live in big houses?
Well if Raptor gets diet pepsi I want diet cherry zero.
Commie bastards the lot of you!!!!!
And I’ll bet most Doctor’s wives are pretty. At least the one I saw at her BIG house. She was driving a big BMW, and her husband the doctor has a big Lincoln SUV.
while listening to another doctor giving a person thinking about getting married, I heard him say that as a doctor, he can marry any pretty woman he wants!
AmWay, you have a point there.
Do you think there is some reason why pretty women are usually rich and live in big houses?
And does that mean that less pretty women are usually not rich and live in lil ole crackerbox houses?
Just a stereotype AmWay. I’m sure neither is true.
The only use I have with soda (pop) is Coke Zero. It is excellent with Appleton’s Gold Reserve Rum.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
The World Health Organization’s ranking
of the world’s health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report – See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
Having known someone who has been treated in a Japanese hospital, I have to question what “qualifications” went into this ranking on healthcare.
1. Family had to bring in my meals, clothes, blankets.
2. There were no private rooms.
3. No TV.
4. They screwed the aftercare and they got an infection.
5. And while on the operating table immobilized with a spinal block and decked out like JC on the cross (arms out), he saw a cockroach crawling across the operating room ceiling.
Now, with very, very limited Japanese language skills, try to mime THAT one to the attending physicians and nurses – without using your hands!
SolDevVB: I read that item you mention in an earlier post and it is written by a reich wing nutjob, published in a similar venue, discussing a decision so complicted anyone can take what they want from it. Handed down in 2005, no one has paid any attention to the it’s beat comments. The Canadian Medical Association re-affirmed it’s trust and belief in the system over the week-end but still seek to improve what they have now. If you want the lastest in prodcedures go to Mexico for the them or for other “miracle” cures but remember, proven prodecures are shared worldwide and they are far from being uniquely American in origin…… even Al Gore, when faced with a very sick child took his boy to Toronto Sick Kids Hospital for treatment. There is no National Healthcare system in Canada it is operated seperately by each Province and what is available in one area may not be available in another. So, what you see from a distance, actually may be what you see, for just look at the results and the relative costs, it’s amazing…..or annoying. I have family who have experienced both systems and would not trade what they now have in the Great White North, for Health Care anyway.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20070529cc.html
Tuesday, May 29, 2007
World’s ‘best’ health care fatally flawed
By CESAR CHELALA
NEW YORK — One of the most contentious issues of the U.S. presidential campaign will be how to fix what many agree is a malfunctioning health-care system. Adding fuel to the fire is a recent study detailing the shortcomings of the U.S. health-care system compared with those of Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and Britain.
The study, entitled “Mirror, Mirror on the Wall: An International Update on the Comparative Performance of American Health Care,” released by the Commonwealth Fund in New York, finds that not only is the U.S. health-care system the most expensive in the world (double that of the next most costly, Canada) but that it comes in dead last in most measures of performance.
Although U.S. political leaders are fond of stating that we have the best health-care system in the world, they fail to add an important caveat: It is the best for those who can afford it. For the rest of the population, disadvantages far outweigh the merits.
This new study not only confirms the findings of previous Commonwealth Fund studies but also that of a World Health Organization analysis in 2000: that the overall performance of the U.S. health-care system ranks 37th among all countries included in the analysis.
Presidential candidates will be asked to justify the costs (15 percent of GDP and estimated to reach 19.6 percent by 2016) of such a disadvantageous system that also fails to insure a sizable portion of the population. The most notable way in which the United States differs from other developed countries is in the absence of universal coverage. But it is also last in terms of access, patient safety, efficiency and equity.
The other five countries considered spend considerably less on health care — per capita and as a percentage of GDP. The U.S. spends more than $ 6,000 per person annually on health care, almost double that of Australia, Canada and Germany, all of which achieve better results on health status indicators. This suggests that the U.S. health-care system can and must do much more with its substantial investment in health.
Americans’ average life expectancy of 78 ranks 45th in the world — behind Greece, Bosnia and Jordan. Also, according to the CIA’s World Fact Book, the U.S. infant mortality rate — deaths of newborns (under age 1) per 1,000 live births — is 6.50, higher than most developed nations. Even Cuba’s IMR is 6.33.
The U.S. lags behind all industrialized nations in health insurance coverage. The most recent data available from the U.S. Census Bureau indicate that 46.6 million Americans (about 15.9 percent of the population) had no health insurance coverage during 2005, an increase of 1.3 million over the previous year. It is no wonder that medical bills, overwhelmingly, are the most common reason for personal bankruptcy in the U.S.
According to the Children’s Health Fund, 9 million children are completely uninsured in the U.S., while another 23.7 million — nearly 30 percent of the nation’s children — lack regular access to health care.
Compared with the other countries studied, the U.S. lags behind in the adoption of information technology and other national policies that promote quality improvement. Real-time information systems in countries such as New Zealand, Germany and Britain enhance physicians’ ability to monitor chronic conditions and the use of medication, including that prescribed by other physicians. In other countries, experienced nurses monitor chronic conditions, thus easing the physicians’ burden.
The U.S. also shows poor performance with regard to national health expenditures and administrative costs. Americans with below-average income are more reluctant to visit a physician when sick, get a recommended test, fill a prescription, undergo necessary treatment, or receive a proper followup.
These rankings are based on national mortality data and the perceptions and experiences of physicians and patients; they do not include information from medical records or other administrative data. Yet they paint a disturbing picture of the most expensive health-care system in the world.
“(AP) A letter from the Moncton Hospital to a New Brunswick heart patient in need of an electrocardiogram said the appointment would be in three months. It added: “If the person named on this computer-generated letter is deceased, please accept our sincere apologies.”
The patient wasn’t dead, according to the doctor who showed the letter to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. But there are many Canadians who claim the long wait for the test and the frigid formality of the letter are indicative of a health system badly in need of emergency care.
Americans who flock to Canada for cheap flu shots often come away impressed at the free and first-class medical care available to Canadians, rich or poor. But tell that to hospital administrators constantly having to cut staff for lack of funds, or to the mother whose teenager was advised she would have to wait up to three years for surgery to repair a torn knee ligament. ”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705
“However, Canada is beginning to run into problems, as reported in the Wall Street Journal today. Like the USA, Canada is beginning to face the specter of an aging population. Pressure on doctors and facilities started to choke things up last year. Even though the country has had very tight restrictions on providing private care, the Supreme Court decided the ban had to be relaxed; too many people were suffering from long waiting lists and crowded hospitals. Now a second-tier of health care is building up, a U.S. style of paid physicians. Restrictions are still tight…but they’re loosening.
What this means for Canada is trying to deal with a new system, and integrating it into the current one without giving unfair advantages to rich over poor. To the rest of the world, it’s worrying. Universal medical coverage has been more an ideal than reality in most countries, but Canada was always proof that it could work. Now we’re not so sure it works there either.”
http://www.progressiveu.org/071855-health-care-problems-in-canada
This is a good contrast of Liberals and CONs.
The liberal cites a statistical study, and the CON provides a single anecdote.
worlds best healthcare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4kbag-f3K8
annie_moose: Those stats were published 10 years ago which probably means the figures are 12 years old, and I wonder what the real differene is between 2 ranking and number 32?
Obamas spokesperson has just admitted that even though he has denied it repeatedly, Obama did indeed vote against the right of a living baby to medical treatment.
After calling Jill Stanek and other right to lifers liars he has finally admitted what the right knew all along.
Where are those who were calling the conservatives on this blog liars now?
In case you missed it — and he calls Obama elitist
http://therealmccain.com/?utm_source=rgemail
Capn and Annie look at the French plan and its future. Look at projected deficit by 2012 and 2020. I just did. It is a little scary. We haven’t even began to see the cost to the nation for socialized medicine.
France did however do a basic tort reform blocking frivolous lawsuits. That helped their plan for a while but even now it is going broke.
“Every day we’re paying for health care, yet when we go to access it, it’s just not there,” said Pelton.
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in taxes each year, partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40 percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
The system is going broke, says the federation, which campaigns for tax reform and private enterprise in health care.
It calculates that at present rates, Ontario will be spending 85 percent of its budget on health care by 2035. “We can’t afford a state monopoly on health care anymore,” says Tasha Kheiriddin, Ontario director of the federation. “We have to examine private alternatives as well.”
The federal government and virtually every province acknowledge there’s a crisis: a lack of physicians and nurses, state-of-the-art equipment and funding. In Ontario, more than 10,000 nurses and hospital workers are facing layoffs over the next two years unless the provincial government boosts funding, says the Ontario Hospital Association, which represents health care providers in the province. ”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705
Foreign Healthcare Ideas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxIOScgO-W0&feature=related
Sol: As to a screwed up form letter, well, it happens I guess. Who is Progressive U…are they a medical or education a outfit, or a conservative based group? As to CBS, if you read the entire article it is in of praise of the Canadian system, save one contributor (Price?)who claims to be Bush supporter! At any rate, your sources are not Canadian and hardly open to accepting what they seem to accept donestically. I believe that if you are overtly obese you will wait until you become a good candidate by reason of weight loss, for things like hip and knee joint replacement and that could be months. Their Supreme Court did NOT rule, it was a lower Quebec Court who reinforced the premise that undue waits are unconstitutional, with which everybody agrees. This case was brought by a surgeon who wanted to start his own private-for-profit-surgery in Quebec and got a “stooge” patient to complain, but the medical society did not think the stooge had a leg to stand on (that might have been a pun) and zip was done as a consequence. I’m kinda up on this stuff…..but aging is where I’m at now and worried, like eveyone lese
capn boasts:
“The liberal cites a statistical study, and the CON provides a single anecdote.”
And yet he has never refuted his claim that “all church shooters were CONs”….
How about it, capn..care to admit you made that one up? Still waiting….
http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_systems.html
Say Annie, from your link above, can you explain the criteria used to rank the health care in every country?
This one for example, is it very important?
Responsiveness
The US is ranked #1. Now, everyone knows that Response Time is not very important to health care. Not nearly as important as:
- Fairness
- Dale
- Distribution
Annie, if you can’t explain the criteria, then you are nothing but a copy and pasting wondergirl!
(Is Cosmos your brother?)
“Those who cite the WHO rankings typically present themas an objectivemeasure of the relative performance of national health care systems. They are not.
The WHO rankings depend crucially on a number of underlying assumptions—some of them logically incoherent, some characterized by substantial uncertainty, and some rooted in ideological beliefs and values that not everyone shares. Changes in those underlying assumptions can radically alter the rankings.”
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf
“Responsiveness. This factormeasures a variety
of health care system features, including
speed of service, protection of privacy, choice
of doctors, and quality of amenities (e.g., clean
hospital bed linens). Although those features
may not directly contribute to longer life
expectancy, people do consider them aspects
of the quality of health care services, so there is
a strong case for including them.”
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf
Hmmm…Choosing your own Doctor, and Response Time, and the USA is #1.
Not important to the Socialists who just want something for nothing.
“The FF factor is not an objective measure
of health attainment, but rather reflects a
value judgment that rich people should pay
more for health care, even if they consume
the same amount.”
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf
Jill Stanek is indeed a liar. She thinks that the chinese are eating fetuses and gave a story that sounded a lot like another nurses story that was given.
Change of subject, just to mix things up a little.
From Kansas.com:
Inmate death investigation continues
BY DEB GRUVER
Sedgwick County Jail officials continue today to investigate the death of a 46-year-old inmate.
Gary E. White, 46, died about 8:15 a.m. Sunday at a Wichita hospital.
Sheriff’s officials say he had existing medical problems. He had been in jail since Jan. 6.
The Kansas Bureau of Investigation and the Sedgwick County coroner’s office are helping with the investigation.
* * *
I’m really wondering if this is the inmate I know about who was suffering from MRSA. I have it on good authority that at least one inmate had been removed from regular jail population, after several attempts to get treatment, which were ignored. When his pleas for medical help were finally attended to, his cellmate was given a mop and told to clean up cell…with no precautions or protection against the disease. That inmate later contracted MRSA and has since been moved to another facility. He has been treated for recurring MRSA since the original jail experience.
So is this okay with everybody? Go to jail on probably pissant little charges and die? No, I don’t know what the deceased was in for, but I do know about the cellmate, and it certainly wasn’t for something that warranted this kind of possible death warrant.
Oh yeah, you are acting like doctors are just starving and I point out they are indeed not, and you all go ballistic. I don’t care that he has the biggest house, I like him very much.
But the fact remains, he’s richer than anyone in town. So please. DOn’t pretend like they’re just in ruins.
Malpractice insurance is one of the things that is causing the increase in physician fees. I know of more than one who gave up ob/gyn in general practice several years ago because of it. At least one has left private practice and gone into another medical related field elsewhere. (Small town doctors.)
From Drudge:
PAPER: OBAMA MAY ANNOUNCE VP IN AM
Mon Aug 18 2008 17:01:04 ET
Here Maxie,
This is more up to date and a little easier to read.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=692682
The U.S. spends twice per capita what other major industrialized countries spend on health care, and costs continue to rise faster than income. We are headed toward $1 of every $5 of national income going toward health care. We should expect a better return on this investment.
Performance on measures of health system efficiency remains especially low, with the U.S. scoring 53 out of 100 on measures gauging inappropriate, wasteful, or fragmented care; avoidable hospitalizations; variation in quality and costs; administrative costs; and use of information technology. Lowering insurance administrative costs alone could save up to $100 billion a year at the lowest country rates.
National leadership is urgently needed to yield greater value for the resources devoted to health care.
The National Scorecard
The National Scorecard includes 37 indicators in five dimensions of health system performance: healthy lives, quality, access, efficiency, and equity. U.S. average performance is compared with benchmarks drawn from the top 10 percent of U.S. states, regions, health plans, hospitals, or other providers or top-performing countries, with a maximum possible score of 100. If average U.S. performance came close to the top rates achieved at home or internationally, then average scores would approach 100.
In 2008, the U.S. as a whole scored only 65, compared with a score of 67 in 2006—well below the achievable benchmarks. Average scores on each of the five dimensions ranged from a low of 53 for efficiency to 72 for healthy lives.
On those indicators for which trend data exist, performance compared with benchmarks more often worsened than improved, primarily because of declines in national rates between the 2006 and 2008 Scorecards. Overall, national scores declined for 41 percent of indicators, while one-third (35%) improved, and the rest exhibited no change (or were not updated). Exhibit 2 lists indicators and summarizes scores and benchmark rates.
As observed in the first Scorecard, the bottom group of hospitals, health plans, or geographic regions is often well behind even average rates, with as much as a fivefold spread between top and bottom rates. On key indicators, a 50 percent improvement or more would be required to achieve benchmark levels.
Scorecard Highlights and Key Findings
The U.S. continues to perform far below what is achievable, with wide gaps between average and benchmark performance across dimensions. Despite some encouraging pockets of improvement, the country as a whole has failed to keep pace with levels of performance attained by leading nations, delivery systems, states, and regions. Following are major highlights from the Scorecard by performance dimension:
Healthy Lives: Average Score 72
* Preventable mortality: The U.S. fell to last place among 19 industrialized nations on mortality amenable to health care—deaths that might have been prevented with timely and effective care. Although the U.S. rate improved by 4 percent between 1997–1998 and 2002–2003 (from 115 to 110 deaths per 100,000), rates improved by 16 percent on average in other nations, leaving the U.S. further behind.
* Activity limitations: More than one of every six working-age adults (18%) reported being unable to work or carry out everyday activities because of health problems in 2006—up from 15 percent in 2004. This increase points to the need for better prevention and management of chronic diseases to enhance quality of life and capacity to work, especially among younger adults as they age.
Quality: Average Score 71
* Effective care: Control of diabetes and high blood pressure improved markedly from 1999–2000 to 2003–2004 for adults, according to physical exams conducted on a nationally representative sample. Among adults with diabetes, rates of at least fair control of blood sugar increased from 79 percent to 88 percent from 1999–2000 to 2003–2004. Among adults with hypertension, rates of control of high blood pressure increased from 31 percent to 41 percent over the same time period. Yet, a 30 to 60 percentage point difference remains between top- and bottom performing health plans. Hospitals’ adherence to treatment standards for heart attack, heart failure, and pneumonia also improved from 2004 to 2006, but with a persistent gap between leading and lagging hospital groups. Delivery rates for basic preventive care failed to improve: as of 2005, only half of adults received all recommended preventive care.
* Coordinated care: Heart failure patients were more likely to receive hospital discharge instructions in 2006 (68%) than in 2004 (50%), but rates varied widely between top and bottom hospital groups (from 94% to 36%). Hospitalizations increased among nursing home residents from 2000 to 2004, as did rehospitalizations for patients discharged to skilled nursing facilities—signaling a need to improve long-term care and transitions between health care providers.
* Safe care: One key indicator of patient safety—hospital standardized mortality ratios—improved significantly since the first Scorecard, with a 19 percent decline. Safety risks, however, remain high as one-third of adults with health problems reported mistakes in their care in 2007. Drug safety is of particular concern. Rates of visits to physicians or emergency departments for adverse drug effects increased by one-third between 2001 and 2004.
* Patient-centered, timely care: In 2007, as in 2005, less than half of U.S. adults with health problems were able to get a rapid appointment with a physician when they were sick. They also were the most likely among adults in seven countries surveyed to report difficulty obtaining health care after hours without going to the emergency department, and this rate increased from 61 percent to 73 percent since 2005. Within the U.S., there is wide variation among hospitals in terms of patient reports of how well staff responded to their needs.
for larger view click on image
Executive Summary Image 2
Access: Average Score 58
* Insurance and access: As of 2007, 75 million working-age adults (42%) were either uninsured or underinsured, a sharp increase from 61 million (35%) in 2003. More than one-third (37%) of all U.S. adults reported going without needed care because of costs in 2007, versus only 5 percent in the benchmark country.
* Affordable care: As insurance premiums rose faster than wages, the share of nonelderly adults living in a state where group health insurance premiums averaged less than 15 percent of household income dropped sharply, from 58 percent in 2003 to 25 percent in 2005. By 2007, two of five adults (41%) reported they had medical debt or problems with medical bills, up from 34 percent in 2005.
Efficiency: Average Score 53
* Inappropriate, wasteful, or fragmented care: In 2007, as in 2005, U.S. patients were much more likely—three to four times the benchmark rate—than patients in other countries to report having had duplicate tests or that medical records or test results were not available at the time of their appointment.
* Avoidable hospitalizations: Average rates of hospital readmissions within 30 days remained high, at 18 percent in both 2003 and 2005. Rates in the highest regions were 50 percent higher than in the lowest regions. Rates of hospitalizations for preventable conditions decreased somewhat from 2002–2003 to 2004–2005, but continued to vary two- to fourfold across hospital regions and states.
* Variation in quality and costs: Among Medicare patients treated for heart attacks, hip fractures, or colon cancer, a high proportion of regions with the lowest mortality rates also had lower total costs, indicating that it is possible to save lives and lower costs through more effective, efficient systems. The total costs of caring for patients with chronic disease varied twofold across regions.
* Administrative costs: U.S. health insurance administrative costs as a share of total health spending are 30 percent to 70 percent higher than in countries with mixed private/public insurance systems and three times higher than in countries with the lowest rates.
* Information systems: U.S. primary care physicians’ use of electronic medical records (EMRs) increased from 17 percent to 28 percent from 2001 to 2006. Still, the U.S. lags far behind leading countries, where EMRs are now used by nearly all physicians (98%) to improve care.
Equity: Average Score 71
* Disparities: Compared with their white, higher-income, or insured counterparts, minorities, low-income, or uninsured adults and children were generally more likely to wait when sick, to encounter delays and poorly coordinated care, and to have untreated dental caries, uncontrolled chronic disease, avoidable hospitalizations, and worse outcomes. They were also less likely to receive preventive care or have an accessible source of primary care.
* Reducing gaps: Among blacks and Hispanics, it would require a 19 percent to 25 percent decrease in the risk of poor health outcomes and inadequate or inefficient care to reach parity with whites. Gaps for uninsured and low-income populations are still wider: it would require a 34 percent to 39 percent improvement on indicators of health care access, quality, and efficiency to achieve equity with insured and higher-income populations.
System Capacity to Innovate and Improve: Not Scored
The capacity to innovate and improve is fundamental to a high-performing health care system. It includes:
* a care system that supports a skilled and motivated health care workforce, with an emphasis on primary care and population health;
* a culture of quality improvement and continuous learning that promotes and rewards recognition of opportunities to reduce errors and improve outcomes; and
* investment in public health initiatives, research, and information necessary to inform, guide, and drive health care decisions and improvement.
On all three aspects, the U.S. currently under-invests in the capacity of the health system to innovate and improve. U.S. payment systems undervalue primary care and fail to support providers’ efforts to manage and coordinate care. Studies indicate that health care teams and well-organized work processes can achieve significant gains in quality and safety with more efficient use of resources. Yet, health professionals are rarely trained to work in teams, and larger organized delivery systems that employ multidisciplinary health professionals are not the norm. There is little investment in spreading best practices, and incentives are rarely designed to reward or support improved quality and greater efficiency. In an era of rapid medical advances, national investment in research regarding clinical and cost-effectiveness—what works well for which patients and when—has failed to keep pace to inform health care decision-making.
Summary and Implications
Potential for Improvement
Overall, the National Scorecard on U.S. Health System Performance, 2008, finds that the U.S. is losing ground in providing access to care and has uneven health care quality. The Scorecard also finds broad evidence of inefficient and inequitable care. Average U.S. performance would have to improve by more than 50 percent across multiple indicators to reach benchmark levels of performance.
Closing performance gaps would bring real benefits in terms of health, patient experiences, and savings. For example:
* Up to 101,000 fewer people would die prematurely each year from causes amenable to health care if the U.S. achieved the lower mortality rates of leading countries.
* Thirty-seven million more adults would have an accessible primary care provider, and 70 million more adults would receive all recommended preventive care.
* The Medicare program could potentially save at least $12 billion a year by reducing readmissions or by reducing hospitalizations for preventable conditions.
* Reducing health insurance administrative costs to the average level of countries with mixed private/public insurance systems (Germany, the Netherlands, and Switzerland) would free up $51 billion, or more than half the cost of providing comprehensive coverage to all the uninsured in the U.S. Reaching benchmarks of the best countries would save an estimated $102 billion per year.
Studies further document the cost in lives and lost productivity from the nation’s failure to provide secure health insurance to all. Based on areas within the U.S. that achieve superior outcomes at lower costs, it should be possible to close gaps in health care quality and access, and to reduce costs significantly.
Several implications for policy emerge from the Scorecard findings:
What Receives Attention Gets Improved
Notably, all of the quality indicators showing significant improvement have been targets of national and collaborative efforts to improve, informed by data with measurable benchmarks and indicators reached by consensus. Conversely, there was failure to improve in areas such as mental health care, primary care, hospital readmission rates, or adverse drug events for which focused efforts to assess and improve at the community or facility level are lacking. Further, the continued failure to adopt interoperable health information technology makes it difficult to generate the information necessary to document performance and monitor improvement efforts.
Better Primary Care and Care Coordination Hold Potential for Improved Outcomes at Lower Costs
Hospital readmission rates and rates of potentially preventable hospitalizations for ambulatory care-sensitive conditions remain high and variable across the country, as do total costs for the chronically ill. Studies indicate that it is possible to prevent hospitalization or rehospitalizations with better primary care, discharge planning, and follow-up care—an integrated, systems approach to care.
Multiple indicators highlight the fact that the U.S. has a weak primary care foundation. Investing in primary care with enhanced capacity to provide patients with round-the-clock access, manage chronic conditions, and coordinate care will be key steps in moving to more organized care systems.
However, current payment incentives for hospitals, physicians, and nursing homes do not support coordination of care or efficient use of expensive, specialized care. information also fails to flow with patients across sites of care due to lack of health information technology and information exchange systems. These inefficiencies require innovative payment policies as well as care delivery approaches to improve outcomes for patients and use resources more efficiently.
Aiming Higher
The 2008 National Scorecard documents the human and economic costs of failing to address the problems in our health system. Recent analysis suggests it could be possible to insure everyone and achieve significant savings with improved value over the next decade. Health care expenditures are projected to double to $4 trillion, or 20 percent of national income, over the next decade, and millions more U.S. residents are on a path to becoming uninsured or underinsured, absent new policies. We need to change directions, starting with the recognition that access to care, health care quality, and efficiency are interrelated.
Aiming higher and moving on a more positive path will require strategies targeting the multiple sources of poor health system performance. These strategies include:
* universal and well-designed
* coverage that ensures affordable access and continuity of care, with low administrative costs;
* incentives aligned to promote higher quality and more efficient care;
* care that is designed and organized around the patient, not providers or insurers;
* widespread implementation of health information technology with information exchange;
* explicit national goals to meet and exceed benchmarks and monitor performance; and
* national policies that promote private-public collaboration and high performance.
Rising costs put families, businesses, and public budgets under stress, pulling down living standards for middle- as well as low-income families. New national policies that take a coherent, whole-system, population view are essential for the nation’s future health and economic security.
Citation
The Commonwealth Fund Commission on a High Performance Health System, Why Not the Best? Results from the National Scorecard on U.S. Health System Performance, 2008, The Commonwealth Fund, July 2008
“Premiums are based on underwriting risk, actuarially determined.” – VT
This forms the basis of an idea. VT – if we had a better forum, I’d be interested in bouncing it off of you, and some here. As I said, if it is workable, it might serve as the basis for something acceptable to most here, even if not seen as perfect by many.
VT has a forum. It isn’t visited often but I guarantee NO flaming, name calling, keeping score, making one feel less or more than another goes on. Some silliness, but the fun kind that makes you laugh.
GMC, I’d be most interested in “hearing” your idea. Alas, the current forum would not be the best for brainstorming in the way it appears you (and I) would like. There are others whose comments after consideration would be of assistance who read and post here.
I’ve a few ideas I’d like to bounce off a few, you included, but don’t want to interrupt the normal flow of insight that occurs here daily. Perhaps we might conjure up an appropriate “marketplace” where the ideas may flow; I’ll think about it and if I come up with something for a suggestion, I’ll give a post.
Thought about that Linda, but don’t want to impose “my forum” on anyone. And, as you are aware, I’ve not been too diligent in keeping it up and going. Anyway, GMC, and others interested, let’s give it some thought and see where we get.
Linda,
You mean a place where no one would dare question anything you say or disagree with you?
Where your opinions are never challanged?
Oh boy! Sounds like a great place for you.
Here ya go Annie, let’s trade copy and paste. You fail to answer the criteria questions above, so here’s another anti-Annie paste job. You can’t explain the criteria used by the WHO, I doubt if you can explain the criteria used by your Commonwealth Fund buddies.
http://www.westandfirm.org/blog/2008/08/more-commonwealth-errors-debunked.html
Friday, August 1, 2008
More Commonwealth Errors Debunked
By Paul Hsieh, MD @ 12:05 AM
A couple of weeks ago, the Commonwealth Fund released yet another report sharply critical of US health care, claiming that we ranked 19th out of 19 Western Countries, supposedly worse than Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy.
Fortunately, Linda Gorman of the Independence Institute has written a devastating critique of the Commonwealth study entitled, “Commonwealth Ranking: Are We Really 19th Out of 19?”. She discusses numerous methodological problems with their report, including:
Choosing Nonmedical Benchmarks
Cherry-Picking the Benchmarks
Using Questionable Benchmarks
Equating Low Spending with Efficiency
Using Questionable Measurements
Confusing “Access” with “Third-Party Insurance”
Ignoring Self-Insurance
Ignoring Assets
Applying the Commonwealth Criteria of “Underinsured” to the Medicare Population
Ignoring Rationing by Waiting
Misusing Statistics.
HEHEHE
I’ve been in a hospital emergency room in Greece. (did you know they were a third world country)
And if France is number one. . . .
HEHEHE
VT, Linda: if said forum included, perhaps, a good beer and a few appetisers – count me in. Good company and thoughtful conversation are always a good thing.
I can see why people fly from all over the world to go to France for their health care…
Oh wait, nevermind. That is America.
Let me work on that, GMC; just not this week as it already is looking full. BTW, what is your definition of “good beer”?
The Freedom of Choice Act espoused by Obamanation, if passed and signed, will strike down every current restriction on abortion, about 300 of them, within all 50 states.
“This Act applies to every federal, state and local statute, ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy, practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act.”
The Freedom of Choice Act is completely retroactive. That means that federal bans on partial-birth and live-birth abortions will be trashed, along with 35 years of efforts enacting the meager and inadequate abortion restrictions we have in place now – dumped in the garbage along with 50 million dead babies.
Chicago’s Christ Hospital, by the way, caught committing live-birth abortions and tossing live premature babies into the dirty linen room to die alone and untouched, was affiliated with Obamanation’s pro-abortion pro-sodomy apostate Chicago “church.”
“Statement of Policy — It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.”
The Freedom of Choice Act makes it against the law for a medical professional to deny any woman this “right,” even on account of personal moral conscience. And it makes this “right” to abortion sacrosanct for every woman, regardless of ability to pay; the state must provide what the woman cannot.
- – -
“Well and because they have not been telling the truth. And I hate to say that people are lying, but here’s a situation where folks are lying. I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported – which was to say –that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born – even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion. That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade. By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in Illinois that insured life saving treatment was given to infants.
So for people to suggest that I and the Illinois medical society, so Illinois doctors were somehow in favor of withholding life saving support from an infant born alive is ridiculous. It defies commonsense and it defies imagination and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it’s an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond. It’s one thing for people to disagree with me about the issue of choice, it’s another thing for people to out and out misrepresent my positions repeatedly, even after they know that they’re wrong. And that’s what’s been happening.”
. . . Obamanation, in Saturday’s interview with CBN’s David Brody, continuing his stream of lies and cover-ups while accusing pro-lifers of lying about how he personally killed the born alive infants protection bill in the Illinois senate, though an abortion neutrality amendment had been added, just like in the federal bill
- – -
Sunday the Obamanation campaign admitted that the candidate for President repeatedly lied about his Born Alive vote in the Illinois Senate. Obamanation stands condemned by his own words for killing the born alive infants protection bill in 2003, amended with the same abortion neutrality statement as the 2002 federal bill, a heinous act that “defies common sense and defies imagination.”
So, now we have absolute, uncontested proof that Obamanation lied about how he considers protecting abortion mill profits vastly more important than requiring care and treatment for born-alive premature babies, since an abortionist quack is not likely to keep his fee if the baby lives. And the pro-abortion media gave him a pass all this year, not bothering to fact-check anything Obamanation says.
Also, there was no Illinois bill in place that required life-saving treatment for infants, because Chicago’s Christ Hospital, affiliated with Obamanation’s pro-abortion pro-sodomy apostate Chicago “church,” was caught committing live-birth abortions and tossing living, breathing, squirming, premature babies into the dirty linen room to die alone and untouched.
- – -
“The fact is that — although we have a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years — abortions have not gone down,”
. . . another lying assertion by Obamanation at the Saddleback Church forum Saturday, claiming that pro-life policies don’t reduce abortions, a claim that is being denied by the Alan Guttmacher Institute and the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania
[The methods actually proven to reduce abortions are cutting taxpayer funding, enforcing parental notification or consent, and prosecuting abortion mill crimes, all of which are adamantly opposed by Obamanation. Easy access to abortifacients like the Plan B morning after pill is proven to increase disease infections instead of reducing abortions.]
- – -
Meanwhile, maverick McCain stated at the Saddleback Church televised forum that babies get human rights from the moment of conception, as far as his presidency is concerned, a question that was entirely above Obamanation’s abortion-lobby-dictated pay grade.
[Not so many conservatives are holding their noses over McCain now.]
- – -
The Real Truth About Obama Inc., a pro-life group, is trying to establish a Web site and air radio ads. The Richmond, VA-based group filed a legal motion arguing it is not a PAC because it would be talking about an issue, and should not be subject to federal rules that restrict fundraising and advertising by political action committees.
- – -
Thousands gathered at the Washington, DC mall Saturday to call for an end to legalized abortion, an end to the Roe v. Wade illegal federal attack on state abortion laws, an end to taxpayer funding of criminal, racist Planned Parenthood, and a beginning of Christian revival.
Godspeed.
- – -
There are no harmless abortions, according to mothers who are victims of abortion.
See news page
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=34203
- – -
“Don’t you ever vote for a pro-abortion candidate for anything. Not ever.”
. . . enraged Pastor John Hagee, of San Antonio’s Cornerstone Church, to a standing ovation, in his sermon series “Vote the Bible” broadcast over TV and radio Sunday
- – -
A newborn infant was found inside a garbage bin in Laguna Niguel, CA by an 11-year-old girl Saturday. The mother, Shawn Sepulveda, 38, was charged with attempted murder of her newborn daughter, and child endangerment, and her other two children were taken in custody. The infant, while not in good health, will likely survive under treatment at Mission Hospital, mainly because of emergency treatment being summoned for the newborn about 15 minutes after being left in the garbage bin.
Maxie,
you don’t believe the figures fine. You want to run things on ideology be my guest. Good Luck with that Maxie. The rest of us will try to find a solution.
Yeah Annie, keep trying to find your solution.
You haven’t even defined the Problem yet.
“good beer”?
Oh, an Amber Bock, a Sam Adams (especially Octoberfest), a good red (Killian’s, Flying Monkey, the River City red), for example. But I’m open to others – trying a new beer is always fun.
Sorta in that line. Most domestics are too pale; but I’m not real fond of european “skunky” beers a la Heineken.
Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. – attributed (probably wrongly) to Benjamin Franklin
http://www.beerinfood.com/Franklin.html
And while thinking about it, a few more quotes:
“Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza.”
-Dave Barry
“An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger, or a beer.”
-Confucius
“If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose.”
-Deep Thought, Jack Handy
“The easiest way to spot a wanker in a pub is to look around and find who’s drinking a Corona with a slice of lemon in the neck.”
-Warwick Franks
“A bar is better than a newspaper for public discussion.”
-Jim Parker, on the importance of a healthy pub culture
“I feel sorry for people who don’t drink. When they wake up in the morning, that’s as good as they’re going to feel all day.”
-Frank Sinatra
“Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.”
-David Rains Wallace
“You can’t be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline – it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.”
-Frank Zappa
And this:
“Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink.”
-Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
“Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it.”
-His reply
“most domestics”
I should say the usual mass-brewery domestics. gotta be precise, or someone on this blog will skewer me just to skewer me.
It’s what we do here.
Agree on your assessment of the usual mass-brewery domestics there. BTW, you sound like a potential volunteer for my project (I’ve a brother-in-law also interested) to find suitable microbrews for a certain college in Maine. I’ll explain in greater detail at another time.
GMC70
Posted August 18, 2008 at 5:04 pm | Permalink
“most domestics”
I should say the usual mass-brewery domestics. gotta be precise, or someone on this blog will skewer me just to skewer me.
————————————————————————-
Scary. That was an Obama-like answer!
Great American Beer Festival – Denver, CO
http://www.beertown.org/events/gabf/index.htm
(Lil 2 oz glasses to allow you to drink at least 72 beers!)
Back in 1973, when young John McCain had just been released from his five hellish years of torture at the hands of the North Vietnamese, he became a media sensation back home. His tale of heroism inspired the nation, and his refusal to back down and give in to his captors demands was thrilling stuff. Queerty tracked down what may be McCain’s first personal account of his captivity and torture, for US News & World Report in May of 1973. They posted it online in January, but maybe it’s because we’re all so familiar with his tale at this point that no one noticed, until now, the bit where he says all his captors were homosexuals who got off on whipping him. No, that is not made up.
” Now I don’t hate them any more—not these particular guys. I hate and detest the leaders. Some guards would just come in and do their job. When they were told to beat you they would come in and do it. Some seemed to get a big bang out of it. A lot of them were homosexual, although never toward us. Some, who were pretty damned sadistic, seemed to get a big thrill out of the beatings.”
Yes, ok. What?? How did POW McCain know they were gay if they weren’t gay “toward him”? Were the homosexuals the ones who enjoyed the beatings or were the sadists a separate category? We have lots of unanswered questions here. Like—how come he mentions how gay the North Vietnamese were but leaves out that inspiring tale of the cross on the floor he mentioned last weekend?
Brilliant Monkey.
Another flysiht outta pepper post.
VT – East Coast? A few years ago, my wife and I discovered Narraganset, an old local brew now made again in Rhode Island. Good stuff. And can’t get it here. And that’s too bad.
Narraganset; good stuff. When in Maine for the younger’s commencement, was honored to sample Shipyard Export Ale, and Shipyard Summer Ale; both drinkable. Didn’t get to try any Seadog in its varieties, but am told by those with whom I spoke that the Oktoberfest Lager is better than Sam Adams similar product. Did pass on the opportunity to try Seadog Blue Paw, as the timing wasn’t quite right to try a combination wheat/blueberry brew, notwithstanding the various awards it has won (including at the aforementioned Beer Festival).
The sampling would be limited to New England, BTW, in light of said college’s buy local policy. I believe that limits the tasting to about 100 microbrews (ME, NH, VT, MA, and RI), but as several of the places do seasonal releases, there would be a time component to consider. All I would ask is compensation for travel and cost of beer.
Central & Tyler Reconstruction Public Meeting
Date: August 18, 2008
Contact: Gail Williams, Asst. to Director of Public Works
E-mail: GWilliams@wichita.gov
Phone: (316) 268-4497
The intersection of Central and Tyler will be reconstructed beginning September 2, 2008. The $2.5 million project will provide dual left turn lanes in all four directions, new traffic signals and improved drainage. A public information meeting for the project will be held at 6 pm Wednesday, August 20 at Bishop Carroll Catholic High School Library, 8101 West Central.
One lane of traffic will be maintained in each direction on Central and Tyler at all times throughout the construction phase. Access to businesses will be maintained. However, left turns at the intersection will be prohibited. One quadrant of the intersection will be reconstructed at a time, starting with the southeast quadrant, followed by the northeast, northwest and the southwest quadrants (in that order).
The projected completion date is April 17, 2009 with landscaping to follow. Site restoration and tree planting is expected to begin in early May. Intermittent flagging of traffic and/or temporary lane closures may be required during this final phase.
AT&T began its utility relocation work for this project the first week of August. This activity will continue through approximately September 20, 2008. The traffic control presently in use, including restricted lanes of traffic and no left turns, will continue on AT&T’s behalf until the formal start of the reconstruction of Central and Tyler intersection.
And it’s a mess! I would recommend avoiding the intersection. Especially poor timing as the mess began with the start of school. Within a few blocks of this intersection are 12 years of parochial schools, Wilbur Middle School and Northwest High School. The traffic increases greatly at morning rush hour with traffic from these schools (compared to summertime when schools aren’t in session) but this year there wasn’t even time to adjust. It’s just a mess!
Max/Annie: The whole health care issue has become a cause celebre in only the last 10-15 years,and I think the ratings bandied about do reflect specific agendae by the reporting agencies, but care improved everywhere once the shortcomings became public, in all systems/countries. Luxembourg should be compared with Beverly Hills by reason of density of population and per capita wealth, whereas Australia, Canada and New Zealand with less than 3 persons per sq.km., brings about a different problem in the delivery of their medical services. The US and Canada have huge minority and native populations while offering services regionally in two languages (Spanish here, French in Canada)that produce very different demographics than more homogeneous countries such as Denmark, Finland, Japan, etc. The open, generous immigration policies of North Americans bring down the performance numbers but that does not reflect conditions on the ground. What stymies me is why the denegration and complaints about what others do if they seem happy, for the numbers tend to back up their reasons for being content. Up until recently I thought everyone was happy, but then my tonsils were taken out on the kitchen table…honest, in the early 40’s. It’s like now being told I was raised in poverty and never knew it. Damn Stats!
Steven’s Point. Old family beer from Michigan (I think). There’s one from Wisc. that starts with an “L” that’s good, too. I like Budweiser, too. It is what it is. Sol, from Mexico is good, Bohemia is great, Indios is good, Negro Modelo is good, Pacific is crap, as is Modelo, and Corona sucks. I don’t see why people even drink it.
“I’m sorry Mary, your letter was little more than liberal talking points with a little whining thrown in. Almost every part of it was insane.”
Sorry, Hank, Your post doesn’t mean much coming from someone who doesn’t have to worry about HIS access to affordable health care.
If the shoe was on the other foot however…..
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted August 18, 2008 at 6:55 pm | Permalink
“I’m sorry Mary, your letter was little more than liberal talking points with a little whining thrown in. Almost every part of it was insane.”
Sorry, Hank, Your post doesn’t mean much coming from someone who doesn’t have to worry about HIS access to affordable health care.
If the shoe was on the other foot however…..
————————-
If the shoe was on the other foot, it would be most uncomfortable walking…
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/saddleback-spok.html
New development . . . In the Saddleback Church Forum, McCain had agreed not to listen to the questions Obama got during the first hour so as to keep an “even playing field.”
Turns out that the McCain campaign now refuses to say whether Old Straight Talk Express was prepped on the questions Obama got or not.
OUOTE:
Before the forum, Ross says, “both candidates agreed to the format of two consecutive interviews.” Based on a coin toss, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, went first, and both candidates also “agreed to and understood that in order to maintain a level playing field, Sen. McCain wouldn’t see or hear any of Sen. Obama’s appearance.
But as for the question the McCain campaign won’t answer — did anyone with McCain, given the questions via email or cell phone, share them with the senator — Ross says, “I cannot speak to that.”
And listen to the old Welfare King chime in.
The only difference between Regular and the homeless guys hobbling around the shelter is that Regular had the good fortune to be injured on the job for the US military instead of while working on Todd Tiahrt’s roof . . .
But, but, but if McCain didn’t cheat by listening to Obama’s questions, why won’t he simply say he didn’t cheat?
Looks like we got a “character issue” here, folks.
The guy’s a cheater and refuses to come clean.
And it all happened in a church, no less.
“CapnAmerica, my father and I are both generous people. Jesus was speaking to individual actions, not making the government force people to pay for others.”
So who is paying for your health care Nathan? I believe I am, as are all the good citizens in this country. So what if you’re in the military?..I wish I could work for the government for 4 yrs and have lifelong benefits after that.
You want the taxspayers to pay your way..so who are you to say that others don’t have the right to affordable health care..hell, YOUR health care is FREE.
BTW, you have not a clue as to how much a family has to pay for private medical insurance…it’s a lot more than a mere $200-$300 per month. Try anywhere from $1,000 to $1,600 as a monthly premium…could you afford that? I didn’t think so.
“CapnAmerica, my father and I are both generous people.”
Not when it comes to compassion for those who are less fortunate than you are.
Wow, all this talk about beer made me thirsty…gotta go get a cold one. See ya later :)
Thanks a lot for your excellent LTTE today, Mary.
That rocked. How Wagle got elected and has stayed elected is a mystery for the ages. Elizabeth Bishop may hand her her walking papers this time around though.
http://ksdp.org/node/5121
As for the Prices, when they get gov’t health care, they “earned it.” When anybody else get gov’t health care, they’re parasitical welfare cases.
Repeat after me, hyp-o-crits.
“New development . . . In the Saddleback Church Forum, McCain had agreed not to listen to the questions Obama got during the first hour so as to keep an “even playing field.”
Turns out that the McCain campaign now refuses to say whether Old Straight Talk Express was prepped on the questions Obama got or not”
Capn?
You are my friend and all but?
DUH!
Of COURSE McCain listened to Obama’s answers. Hell I bet he even knew the questions before they were asked. When you knew the forum Obama was going into, did your ever imagine otherwise? Obama was an absolute FOOL to go in and pander to a group like that. He lost more of his base and he likely won no votes at all. McCain for his part looked like he had been through multiple rehearsals of the thing.
His “friend” Rick Warren set him up and sand bagged him but good. I doubt any of the other, earlier candidates would have went into that pit of vipers.
Thanks for saying that we’re still friends, JR.
I was beginning to wonder after the fractious Hillary vs Barack fight-to-the-death played out here on the Blog.
Yup, Obama isn’t everything I want–I thought the venue was ridiculous, a bunch of Bible thumpers, but maybe he thought he had nothing to lose.
Some of those thumpers might actually vote for him now, who knows?
I don’t have a good feeling about Obama’s VP choice soon to be announced.
Wes Clark seems to be out of the running and Russ Feingold was never in the running.
If it’s some DINO like Evan Bayh or Sam Nunn, I’m going to have to dial back my expectations.
But, remember, the worst person in the world with a D next to their name is better than the best person in the world with an R next to their name.
Make no mistake about that.
But, remember, the worst person in the world with a D next to their name is better than the best person in the world with an R next to their name.
Exactly why Komrade’s posts are irrelevant.
McSame cheated, and the pastor LIED too!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/politics/18mccain.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin
I have a serious question. During the summer of ‘mercy’, what jail arrangments were made with the people arrested? Were they taken to the actual jail or what?
they’re trying to say this is no big deal. Well if this wasn’t a big deal then why the heck lie and make a big deal about who was in the ‘cone of silence’.
Oh this is so freaking wrong. What lying cheating mc*UNT snake bastards.
Mc C&nt always dodges when its the question he doesn’t want to answer.
Just like if he called his wife a C*nt and a trollup. Now he refuses to come clean about this too.
Defend, deflect, deny.
Pee,
pssssst. They all do it. All politicians.
Cindy McCain’s Half Sister ‘Angry’ She’s Hidden
Documents show Kathleen Anne Hensley was born to Jim and Mary Jeanne Hensley on Feb. 23, 1943. They had been married for six years when Kathleen was born.
Jim Hensley was a bombardier on a B-17, flying over Europe during World War II.
He was injured and sent to a facility in West Virginia to recuperate. During that time, while still married to Mary Jeanne, Hensley met another woman — Marguerite Smith. Jim divorced Mary Jeanne and married Marguerite in 1945.
Cindy Lou Hensley was born nine years later, in 1954.
She may have grown up as an only child, but so did her half sister, Kathleen, who was raised by a single parent.
When Hensley died in 2000, his will named not only Portalski but also a daughter of his wife Marguerite from her earlier marriage. So, Cindy McCain may be the only product of Jim and Marguerite’s marriage, but she is not the only child of either.
She was, however, the sole inheritor of his considerable estate.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93708729
“But, remember, the worst person in the world with a D next to their name is better than the best person in the world with an R next to their name.”
This from the honest and reliable source that claims all church shooters are “CONs”.
Typical lies from the extremist who cannot back up his ridiculously childish claims.
For most of us, the world is not quite so black and white…capn has it all figured out, all cons are the spawn of the devil and all libs are saints.
What a clown.
Parkay is again not being truthful.
This is the issue behind the born alive thing: imagine, you’re a mother who has eclampsia- and you’re going to deliver at 20 weeks- there is no choice in the matter- deliver or die, which will kill both of you. Survival is 0 for a fetus of this age. You get to choose, attempt to painfully save this fetus’s life by hooking them up to tubes, shoving hair-thin tubes in their veins, busting their blood vessels to the point of amputation- infections to the point the fetus simply dies….OR…you can cradle and rock your fetus paper thin skin wrapped in a blanket until it passes.
This is what the born alive act is about- a therapeutic induction of birth due to fetal anomalies or welfare of the mother’s life. The fetus IS born alive and not expected to live- some parents will request not to see the infant- as MANY mothers will refuse- its too hard on them. So the nurse has to take it somewhere else until it dies.
Interfering with a parent’s right to choose how horribly this fetus will die is WRONG. These are parents who often WANTED to carry their children. The decision is heartbreaking, and its a lot like the comfort measures given to elderly when they die. THIS is what Parkay is talking about- and he should be throttled for even suggesting that these babies be given all the lifesaving might when the outcome is worse than death.
McSame cheated, and the pastor LIED too!
I’m SHOCKED!
That this surprises anyone. This whole forum had sandbag written all over it.
And Obama walked right into it.
For his next mistake?
Betcha he picks a middle of the roader for VP.
Maybe he’ll do one of the debates on Fox “news”.
It’s almost like he WANTS to lose.
Raptor seems to have nothing to say except to follow me around and try to needle me.
There aren’t enough church shooters to form a conclusion about what their beliefs are. However, the most famous examples of church killings have been by right-wingers: Adkisson and The Birmingham Church bombing by Alabama racists.
There was also the 1999 shooting spree at The California Jewish Center.
QUOTE
[A young boy] Ben was shot along with four others during a day camp session at the North Valley Jewish center. The other victims–a 68-year-old receptionist, a 16-year-old camp counselor and two 6-year-old boys–have since been released from area hospitals and gone home.
Authorities have charged Buford O. Furrow, an avowed racist and anti-Semite from Olympia, Wash., with the attack. Furrow confessed to the shootings, authorities said, bragging he did it “as a wake-up call for Americans to kill Jews.” Furrow also admitted to killing Filipino-American mailman Joseph Ileto in Chatsworth the same day, authorities said.
Actually, I guess I can see why you might be angry by this political mama.
Being a fair minded person, this dirty trick angers you.
But remember who the other side is. ESPECIALLY in this case.
IOKIFAAR
Dirty tricks are fair game because. Because of course, their cause is just.
In THIS case, the faith element is added.
They sandbagged Obama because GOD would want them to do so. They were holy soldiers answerable to no mere mortal, only to a a higher power.
Who didn’t tell them NOT to do it.
So, it was ok.
Being a Christian means never having to even FELL like you should be sorry.
Looks like the FDA has some serious problems.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/ap_on_re_us/salmonella_peppers_3
I don’t recall any liberals who have shot up churches, but feel free to remind me.
BTW, the Montanan who shot up the Capitol in 1999 said that “Clinton was a Russian spy.”
Granted, he was crazy, but isn’t strange how many crazy shooters also hate liberals and want to kill them?
And how few crazy liberals kill conservatives?
Guess it must be because crazy liberals don’t have as many guns!
What an incredible bunch of ignorant whiny bozos! Absolutely no proof, hell not even a hint that McCain had any of the questions in advance and the libs just make up crap because little Barry flopped in the question and answer drill at the church.
Little Barry did poorly because he has no experience. He has no core values. He is just a walking, talking liberal democrat joke. Take away his script and he has nothing.
McCain could do nothing to effect little Barry’s incredibly poor performance. The best the dems could come with got his ass handed to him by an old man!
HEHEHEHE
“McSame cheated, and the pastor LIED too!”
How third grade.
BlueJay’s and Pmom’s comments shows that wacko libs will believe the anything that their masters suggest to them, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it jibes with their ideology. Pastor Rick Warren, is one of the most respected men in America. A little on the liberal side but that’s OK. They think that he would sacrifice his integrity to make one candidate appear better than another. They have no evidence. It’s sad, really. They can’t even imagine what true integrity like Warren stands for is.
“hell not even a hint that McCain had any of the questions in advance and the libs just make up crap ”
Uh huh.
Rick Warren asked Senator Obama a three part question on education.
When it came McCain’s turn for the same question?
He answered all three parts of the question when asked just the first part.
With rare exceptions, fundamentalist christians are scum.
Raptor teh onus is on you buddy, show us a liberal shoot em up at a church. We’ve seen plenty of con ones and I cannot remember a single lib one.
Oh I know if this was Hillary you’d had crucified her as well. This was so obviously cheating but I’m not surprised at all of your defend deflect deny policies.
The mere fact that Obama is baptised and McSame is not- and then tried to use something out of a book to describe a christmastime political ad of his POW days for personal gain is beyond disgusting. He’s using you because he knows you’ll believe anything.
“But, remember, the worst person in the world with a D next to their name is better than the best person in the world with an R next to their name.
Make no mistake about that.” – CapnAmerica
——————
And then there’s CapnAmerica. He who thinks that an individual’s worth is vested entirely in what political party they belong to. in additon to the above quote, he talks nonsense about church shooters and as evidence that one was conservative says that he was a racist and an anti-semite? Did you see that? As if they were qualities of a conservative. What a blind partisan moron you are, CapnAmerica.
You are the poster boy for what is wrong with the political system today.
Make no mistake about that.
The whole interrogative was SCRIPTED for McCain.
“What decision in the last 10 years would you change?”
Of course Obama is in front of a crowd of fundy knuckledraggers. Where is HE gonna go with that?
“Welfare reform was good!” (paraphrasing)
Same question? McCain gets to fall back on “Gotta drill here NOW!”
Question on personal moral failure.
In front of a crowd that trades every single moment of their lives in judgement? What can Obama say?
Oh but it’s a SOFTBALL for McCain!
The story of his despicable treatment of his first wife has been buried. HE gets to kill it for good by saying his greatest moral failure was the failure of his first marriage.
Total set up. And as I say, fundy Christians never have to even pretend to be sorry for anything.
But think how many people are driven away by this reaffirmation of Christian hypocrisy.
There weren’t even three questions asked Obama. These guys can’t even count. It’s hilarious.
And that RAT moderator Rick Warren padded the part too.
He even asked McCain how he felt in the “cone of silence”.
Which of course we now know McCain was never in.
Unless a “cone of silence” can be extended toencompass people not present and accounted for.
Those ARE conservative values. Liberals are against racism. Show me a KKK member that is a liberal and I’ll show you a democratic China.
BlueJay
Posted August 18, 2008 at 10:05 pm | Permalink
“hell not even a hint that McCain had any of the questions in advance and the libs just make up crap ”
Uh huh.
Rick Warren asked Senator Obama a three part question on education.
When it came McCain’s turn for the same question?
He answered all three parts of the question when asked just the first part.
______________________________________________
You might want to read a transcript before you come out with such incredible BS. The actual transcript make you a liar. Again.
The education questions are another section where McCain slam dunked little Barry.
Sorry.
#
Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 10:36 pm | Permalink
Those ARE conservative values. Liberals are against racism. Show me a KKK member that is a liberal and I’ll show you a democratic China.
—————————-
Robert Carlyle Byrd (born November 20, 1917) is the senior United States Senator from West Virginia and a member of the Democratic Party.When Byrd was twenty four he joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1942. He was unanimously elected Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter.[4] Byrd held the titles Kleagle (recruiter) and Exalted Cyclops.
Wiki
Candidates Got Advance Look at Questions
Responding to questions about whether Sen. John McCain had an unfair advantage over Sen. Barack Obama at Saturday’s forum on faith in California, a spokesman for the Rev. Rick Warren said both candidates had an advance look at a few questions.
Spokesman A. Larry Ross said the candidates had agreed that McCain would not listen to Obama’s interview, which came first by a coin-flip agreement. But Ross said Warren gave them both a sense of what to expect.
Warren provided McCain and Obama with the four subject areas, Ross said — leadership, stewardship, worldview and international compassion — and provided them a sense of the themes he would ask about, including topics such as energy and taxes.
He also offered three examples of questions he planned to ask: What is your greatest moral failure? What is America’s greatest moral failure? Who are the three people you rely on for wise advice?
“He wanted to give them an idea of where he wanted to go with this,” Ross said in an interview.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/18/AR2008081802434.html
Oh that’s BS Regular and you know it. Byrd denounced that freaking decades ago.
Find one 91 year old Democrat and dig up something before he enters public life, and that justifies it… Hmmmmm…. I am not even going to go there… it’s too late…
#
Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 10:44 pm | Permalink
Oh that’s BS Regular and you know it. Byrd denounced that freaking decades ago.
————————-
You asked to be shown one and I did.
Thank you for the link Linda. We can put the latest conspriacy theory to bed.
Boy, I bet certain bloggers here (you know who you are) feel really stupid now. Or they may be so jaded they may not. Eh, BlueJay?
Hey I am hardly FOR Barack Obama.
And my posts here reflect that.
And I say again that he was a fool to trust fundamentalist christians.
But I know a set up when I see it.
Senator Obama? I call on you and your supporters. Call a similar forum before moveon.org or Greenpeace or any other non con organization.
Let us see if John McCain can meet you there.
Are you getting it yet Senator Obama?
Ya can’t make nice with these people. So saddle up or get out of the way.
Oops, she’s not gonna like that info, Regular.
I had some interesting thoughts on McCain’s “cross on the ground” story…. But I am not going to post them on THIS Blog….
NO way!!
Giving McCain and Obama the four general areas that Warren wanted to go, and giving them the individual questions (other than the three specifics Linda mentions) is not even close to being the same thing….
McCain DID answer all of the Education questions before he was even asked… I did think that a bit strange….
Chas, I think it’s pretty widely accepted that story was stolen and didn’t happen to McCain.
On the Values thing last Saturday. It must be another in a long line of we each see what we choose to see. I don’t think Obama failed like some here do and I don’t think McCain scored a homerun like some do. I didn’t see either man fail badly. Truth is, Obama had nothing to lose and something to gain. Maybe he didn’t gain anything — from what I’m reading here everyone had their mind made up — but he didn’t lose anything.
“He also offered three examples of questions he planned to ask: What is your greatest moral failure? What is America’s greatest moral failure? Who are the three people you rely on for wise advice?
“He wanted to give them an idea of where he wanted to go with this,” Ross said in an interview. ”
Thanks for that and good catch linda.
TOLD ya.
Obama made the best…or I would say worst, of a situation he should never have placed himself in.
Scripted event to promote John McCain.
And the SAME folks are hoping he will pick a VP they like and then they will wait breathlessly for McCain to die.
I am so proud I am not a christian or a republicon.
Linda, thats not exactly where I was going with the “cross in the sand” story…. I recognized it as being from another source, but havent read the Gulag in years — so I didnt make that particular connection….
As far as the rest of what you said, yes, I agree with you….
Re: Right to healthcare?
Okay, my setting aside the usual poo-flinging, I would point out that rights are not created by the government. That’s why we have a Ninth Amendment. Apart from the absolute minimum laid out in the Bill of Rights, it’s up to us.
So the question is: what does the basic human dignity of existence deserve, as basic rights? “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is pretty vague. The Constitution says that the federal government should “promote the general welfare.”
I would submit that every human being on the planet, at some time, faces a time wherein access to decent medical care makes a huge difference on whether the rest of their life will be happy, free, or indeed even continue. One can hardly imagine a more onerous loss of individual autonomy than dying from an easily treatable disease.
The rub, of course, is when money gets involved. Why should my money, you might ask, be used to guarantee someone else’s right? Well,that actually happens, frequently, to guarantee the enumerated rights in the Bill (ever hear of the court system?), but it’s not just their right–it’s yours, and ours.
So if you are considering the idea that basic requirements of modern existence (clean water, clean air, decent healthcare) are not “rights”–well, that’s fine. But put yourself in the position of the person who has no access to any of them. Those who are dead certain those are not rights believe that inevitably such persons are lacking such through their own fault, and that such an unfortunate fate will never befall them.
The history of Earth suggests otherwise.
Just some food for thought.
we already know he lied about his cross in the sand story too, becuase he quoted the book and then told the nearly identical story from that book.
we already know…
no you don’t. you’re speculating. per usual.
Several times in his interview of Obama, Warren said, “I don’t want to hear from your stump speech.” And Barack approached the questions conversationally and thoughtfully. I don’t agree with all of Obama’s positions but he showed a lot of people how his mind works; his talent for assessing policy and consequences.
Warren let McCoot drone on like your senile uncle at a family reunion, telling stories he says he doesn’t like to tell over and over again and shouting out bumper sticker platitudes from his stump speech like like a parrot with Turette’s Syndrome.
Monkeyhawk, dude: Warren asked them the same questions, word for word. I saw it.
There’s no question that, given our recent history, that an evangelical forum was more likely to be friendly to the Republican (obviously, that’s why Obama showed up–to change some minds), but let’s not get too careless in our assumptions, okay?
Haven’t you been on enough of the receiving end of that crap?
“The fact that the Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency took place at all is a sign that both parties intend to fight for the votes of religious Christians. And little-noticed is language in this year’s draft Democratic platform that ’strongly supports a woman’s decision to have a child’ by ensuring access to health care, income support and adoption programs. The platform also backs efforts to decrease the ‘number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions.’”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/18/AR2008081801850.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Dionne’s view…
Botox for big lips
Max, last I knew, collagen is used for the lip plumping, not Botox. Botox for wrinkles. I have a friend who’s had that. And isn’t permanent, lasting only a few months.
But if it was free, I can’t say for sure that I’d turn it down. :) Beer, on the other hand? Oh, yeah, an instant turn down. ;)
Long day today….
Good night; Good luck; God bless —-
Whatever you conceive God to be….
Blessings ALL!!
So mote it be!!
Mary,
So when are you going to start sharing your wealth with BlueJay?
And one more time, I do not get free health care for life because I served for 4 years.
I know that MH and Capn have got their DU/Kos talking points down and all (per usual), but don’t be too sure. How ’bout you talk to someone who was there?
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGZiOGI3OTQ3YWMxYzFhM2UyYTk3NzJiYTM4MGNiY2U=
Yea, I know. NR is a “conservative rag.” And I should believe some idiot on Kos why, exactly?
McCain apparantly was telling the story in ‘70-’71 – and Gulag wasn’t published until ‘73. Moreover, it’s not like a cross in the dirt is exactly unusual. I have little doubt that particular sign has been exchanged thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of times.
The one thing we DO know is that all the moonbats on Kos/DU weren’t there.
This is as stupid as the “they broke the cone of silence!” meme from the Obama camp.
Parting shot–past midnight here.
Cross in dirt. True. Not True.
Why I am supposed to give a shit either way? What is wrong with you people!
What does that have to do with running one of the most powerful nations on Earth?
I heard the “cross” story back in the early 1980s when I was taking my POW refresher training. Don’t recall what circumstance it was or what particular prisoner said, but I do know it came from the Vietnam experience.
At the base, we had a former pilot that had been a POW for almost seven years. He came back and got his DVM and PhD, did a lot of teaching on nutrition and etc.
One of the main things I got out of the course, other than being resistant to captors was the tap code. That’s the code used between prisoners when they tapped on the wall to pass messages.
I also got to experience the tied to a chair, leaned back, with your toes barely touching and your head taking the full weight of support to hold you up – quite painful after while.
Nothing wrong with the cross story, lot of the Vietnamese were Catholic from the French influence of the 1950s, so it’s quite believable it occurred.
McCain said he gave his captors the names of the Green Bay Packers under torture.
When he was in Pittsburg a few months ago, he told the same story, except then it was the lineup of the Pittsburg Steelers.
Facts don’t matter when you’re always right anyway.
:roll:
If bush has taught us anything, it’s Facts don’t matter.