Open thread 8/14

130 Comments

  1. Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Once again, more evidence for the irrefutable fact of the Theory of Natural Selection. Creationists claim they have scientific evidence but they can’t produce any (probably because they are lying).

    Surprising Details Of Evolution Of Protein Translation Revealed

    ScienceDaily (Aug. 12, 2008) — A new study of transfer RNA, a molecule that delivers amino acids to the protein-building machinery of the cell, challenges long-held ideas about the evolutionary history of protein synthesis.

    In the study, researchers report that the dual functions of transfer RNA (reading the genetic blueprint for a protein, and adding a specific amino acid to the protein as it is formed) appear to have originated independently of one another.

    University of Illinois crop sciences professor Gustavo Caetano-Anollés and postdoctoral researcher Feng-Jie Sun made the discovery by looking for clues to the evolution of protein translation in the sequence and structure of transfer RNA (tRNA).

    “Structure is highly conserved, capturing information that is evolutionarily deep,” Caetano-Anollés said. “It was only logical to focus on transfer RNA, a molecule that is believed to be very ancient and is truly central to the entire protein synthesis machinery.” During protein synthesis, tRNA’s dual function is reflected in its unique L-shaped structure. One end of the molecule decodes messenger RNA (a molecule that carries instructions for the sequence of amino acids in a protein), while the other transfers a specific amino acid to the growing protein chain.

    More at:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080812135517.htm

  2. JWink
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Another nice shower passing over Wichita … hope your windows are rolled up. Tonight at Lawrence-Dumont Stadium, the semi-finals baseball game … check the sports pages for the teams. Saturday we will have a full moon shining over Wichita barring more summer storms and showers. As happens with full moons (when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth), the moon will rise in the east about the time the sun sets in the west. So have a good day.

  3. JWink
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Should have mentioned above, today is the first full day of schoo in USD 259 schools so be on the alert as you drive by schools. Teachers and students, have a good day and school year.

  4. HLP
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    DARWIN’S TREE OF LIFE.

    Why don’t textbooks discuss the “Cambrian explosion,” in which all major animal groups appear together in the fossil record fully formed instead of branching from a common ancestor–thus contradicting the evolutionary tree of life?

  5. Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    “Why don’t textbooks discuss the “Cambrian explosion,” in which all major animal groups appear together in the fossil record fully formed instead of branching from a common ancestor–thus contradicting the evolutionary tree of life?”

    They don’t because your statement is false. I don’t know what you are meaning by fully formed, as if there were some sort of half-trilobite. Before the Cambrian period species didn’t have their shells and therefore didn’t preserve as well but there are still fossilized impressions left of those pre-Cambrian beings such as Cnidarians and sponges.

    The concept of “tree of life” has been replaced by web of life so the concept of a tree would be used only in historical reference.

    Your “explosion” happened 535 million years ago over a 5 to 40 million period. That’s quite the slow explosion. However it does attest perfectly to the Theory of Natural Selection. Those species that developed protective shells were better able to compete for resources therefore had a higher chance of reproductive success. The fact that such harder bodied creatures were able to proliferate so quickly attests to the fact of natural selection.

  6. HLP
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    The majority of the fossils found during the Cambrian explosion do not have ’shells’. Furthermore, there is evidence of developement of many more new parts other than ’shells’.

    If you continue to hold that the earth is 6 billion years old, in the realm of ‘natural selection’ 40 million years is an ‘explosion’.

    Text books ignore the Cambrian fossil explosion because of the continuing scientific controversy that casts doubt on the ‘theory’ of evolution.

  7. annie_moose
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

    Proof #11 – Notice that there is no scientific evidence

    There is no scientific evidence indicating that God exists. We all know that. For example:

    * God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.

    * None of Jesus’ “miracles” left any physical evidence either. (see this page)

    * God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.

    * The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone. (see this page)

    * The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God. (see this page)

    * When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is “answering prayers.” (see this page)

    * Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.

    * And so on…

    Let’s agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.

    If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today’s “God”, nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

    1. If we had scientific proof of God’s existence, we would talk about the “science of God” rather than “faith in God”.

    2. If we had scientific proof of God’s existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.

    3. If we had scientific proof of God’s existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.

    The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

  8. Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    There is no scientific controversy on the fact of evolution. Now Christian textbooks might leave facts out, hence the reason America falls behind other industrialized nations in science, but in the real scientific world there isn’t a controversy.

    What would that controversy be? Overwhelming evidence supporting Natural Selection and absolutely no evidence for the competing theories of Lamarkian evolution and Lysenkoism? Those issues were settled long ago. What’s the controversy? It certainly isn’t creationism because that isn’t a theory and there certainly is no scientific evidence for it, you’ve proven that much.

  9. Regular
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Scientists have discovered that there is no such thing as existence.

    Yesterday in a physics seminar, several physicists revealed that what we are, we ain’t and what we will become won’t happen because we aren’t.

    English professors watching the event scoffed at the event and stated too many forms of the verb “to be” were invoked to assure situational awareness of contemporaneous exposure.

    When asked further to explain, the group chorused in iambic pentameter ancient Druid prayers while dancing naked in the pale light of the new moon.

  10. Boxlock
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    What many of us, those that aren’t AGW hysterics and don’t have CO2 on their brains decreasing its function, have been saying the same thing all along.

    Business leaders hear climate talk

    http://www.kansas.com/101/story/493584.html

    “Any action Kansas takes on its own to cut greenhouse gases is futile environmentally and harmful economically.

    That was the word from environmental lawyer and nationally known speaker and writer Tom Mullikin.
    First, he said, the impact of human activity on global warming may be less than some people make it out be.

    Humans presently generate 5.5 percent of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, he said, citing a federal Energy Information Agency figure. The rest come from natural sources such as animals and volcanoes.

    Kansas homes, factories, cars, livestock and power plants, he said, contribute just 0.013 percent of all greenhouse gases floating in the world’s atmosphere.
    One thing is crystal clear, he said: Any kind of local or national effort to curb greenhouse gases is worse than useless.

    Europe and the United States have reduced or slowed the growth in greenhouse gases, in part because much industry has moved to places such as China with no regulations.

    China recently overtook the United States as the largest producer of greenhouse gases.

    “If your leadership simply moves emissions from the state of Kansas to China — that’s not leadership,” he said.

    A more recent solution, the cap-and-trade system, also has major flaws, he said.

    The cap-and-trade system is where government sets limits for emissions. Companies that produce relatively little greenhouse gas can sell the right to produce more to heavy producers. That gives companies a financial incentive to reduce emissions.

    The National Association of Manufacturers said a recent cap-and-trade proposal in Congress would cost the average Kansas family $304 a year, as oil, electricity and natural gas companies pay higher fees, he said.

    All of those fees will cost 36,000 jobs over the next two decades, the analysis showed — all without reducing global emissions unless China and others agree to curbs.

    Mullikin pointed to some solutions: increased conservation and alternative energy through new technology, but developed only through market forces, rather than by government action.”

    http://www.kansas.com/101/story/493584.html

  11. Political_mama
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEmPZoRVRII

    The ad Obama should run

  12. Boxlock
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Wind whips up health fears

    Hundreds of giant turbines in the Oregon desert will bring power, but residents nearby raise concerns about health effects and an end to their quiet way of life

    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1218250522129010.xml&coll=7

    “The medical thing” is new research suggesting that living close to wind turbines, as Eaton and her 60-year old husband, Mike, soon will be doing, can cause sleep disorders, difficulty with equilibrium, headaches, childhood “night terrors” and other health problems.

    Pierpont’s findings suggest that low-frequency noise and vibration generated by wind machines can have an effect on the inner ear, triggering headaches; difficulty sleeping; tinnitus, or ringing in the ears; learning and mood disorders; panic attacks; irritability; disruption of equilibrium, concentration and memory; and childhood behavior problems.

    Concerns also are coming out of Europe about low-frequency noise from newly built wind turbines. For example, British physician Amanda Harry, in a February 2007 article titled “Wind Turbines, Noise and Health,” wrote of 39 people, including residents of New Zealand and Australia, who suffered from the sounds emitted by wind turbines.”

    Hey, I’m all for wind turbines but it looks like they not the ‘free ride’ some proclaim.
    There are costs and problems associated with them as well.

  13. Political_mama
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    39 worldwide. and you think this is absolutely tied to the turbines? I bet if we measured it, the waves emitting from your microwave, computer and tv are just as bad.

  14. Grateful_Dave
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Organ Donations: When Can Someone be Declared Dead?
    Thursday, August 14, 2008

    A report on three heart transplants involving babies is focusing attention on a touchy issue in the organ donation field: When and how can someone be declared dead?

    For decades, organs have typically been removed only after doctors determine that a donor’s brain has completely stopped working. In the case of the infants, all three were on life support and showed little brain function, but they didn’t meet the criteria for brain death.

    With their families’ consent, the newborns were taken off ventilators and surgeons in Denver removed their hearts minutes after they stopped beating. The hearts were successfully transplanted, and the babies who got the hearts survived.

    “It seemed like there was an unmet need in two situations,” said Dr. Mark Boucek, who led the study at Children’s Hospital in Denver. “Recipients were dying while awaiting donor organs. And we had children dying whose family wanted to donate, and we weren’t able to do it.”

    The procedure — called donation after cardiac death — is being encouraged by the federal government, organ banks and others as a way to make more organs available and give more families the option to donate.

  15. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Most interesting video…. also other links at the same site….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8U-k_g56RA&NR=1

  16. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    chas,

    You’re getting pretty beat up over on the Phelps thread.

  17. Boxlock
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    COME ON P_mama,
    Surely you are not that illiterate?
    It did not say “39 worldwide”, it said that particular Dr. had written about 39 he had studied and written about.
    I know it’s early, but don’t be dumb.

  18. Grateful_Dave
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Barbed wire, stun-gun use mark DNC warehouse jail
    By Erin Rosa 08/13/2008

    Denver officials weren’t planning to reveal details about where activists would be detained in the event of mass arrests during the Democratic National Convention until after the event had started, but those plans were quickly dashed this week when CBS 4News reporter Rick Sallinger not only revealed that protesters would be locked up in a city-owned warehouse, but he also obtained clear video footage inside the facility, a building that includes barbed wire-topped cages and signs warning of stun-gun use.

    The convention jail is located in a warehouse northeast of Denver, and when Sallinger arrived unannounced with a camera crew to shoot the facility, the door was wide open, allowing the disturbing images of caged holding pens to be broadcast on TVs across the metro area:
    Investigative reporter Rick Sallinger discovered the location and managed to get inside Tuesday for a look. The newly created lockup, in a warehouse northeast of Denver, contains dozens of metal cages made of chain-link fence material, topped by rolls of barbed wire.

    Each of these fenced-in areas is about 15 feet by 15 feet, with a lock on the door.

    A sign on the wall reads “Warning, electric stun devices used in this facility.”

    A representative with the Sheriff’s Department later showed up to kick Sallinger and his posse out of the warehouse area and wouldn’t comment on the building or the cages.

  19. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    SOL — Nobody addressed me by name on the Phelps thread…. except for YOU!! LOL

  20. Mary_Caruso
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    A legislative forum Wednesday highlighted the deep divisions that have prevented the state Legislature from passing comprehensive health-care reform.
    The most impassioned arguments in the forum came from Wagle and Landwehr. Wagle, a cancer survivor and mother of a son with leukemia, said she saw too many patients on public health assistance who could have afforded to take responsibility for their care.
    “They’re talking about the HBO show they watched last night and have a new cell phone every time they come to the office,” she said.”

    The average cost of health insurance for a family of four is $1,600 per month. How can Brenda Landwehr be so off based as to assume that those with cell phones and cable TV are able to afford to pay for their own health insurance? She and Susan Wagle have no idea how to affectively deal with the rising cost of healthcare for the average working American.

    “Wagle and Landwehr both support health-care savings accounts, which would provide tax breaks to encourage workers to set aside a portion of their salary to pay health costs. That would allow the workers to buy cheaper “catastrophic” insurance policies and pay for routine health care out of pocket.”

    In the real world, any extra money a worker would be able to “set aside” will probably go for the increasing cost of groceries and gas.

    Jim Ward and Geraldine Flaharty are much more on target when it comes to addressing the growing healthcare crisis in our country. Healthcare should be a right, not a privelege.

    Brenda needs to get off her high horse and realize that because a person watches cable, has a cell phone, or eats out at McDonald’s that they can afford health care. She’s comparing apples to oranges.

  21. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    I sure did. You claim Christianity and punk and junior paint every Christian as a hater. Ergo, they called you out as a hater.

    BTW, ref http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8U-k_g56RA&NR=1

    Good on ya for supporting Ron Paul.

  22. Heckler
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    P-mom

    Make a run out to Beaumont this weekend if the wind is blowing nicely. Sit on the road in the middle of that field for an hour. You will begin to understand the reason for health concerns. The claims that the low frequency noise could effect equilibrium and sleep will begin to make sense to you.

    I don’t have a problem with windfarms as long they are NIMBY and they are not subsidized by government. But those of you who think that they can contribute significantly to this nations power problems are living a pipe dream.

  23. Political_mama
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    What is wrong with the temporary jail? Or would you prefer as a taxpayer to build a new huge one for a day?

  24. Political_mama
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    I’ve been to wind farms, and it wasn’t nearly what I expected it to be with the noise.

    You hear more from the high voltage power boxes.

  25. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    SOL — You are wrong… Jay and Maggot both know I am no fundamentalist…. And they were talking about fundamentalists…. PMama knows me too… She will also tell you I am no fundamentalist….

    And what’s more… YOU know it too!!

    So, what is your freakin problem??? I had nothing to add to that discussion…. My previous comments on Phelps are very clear…

    No need to make them all over again!!

  26. Heckler
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    p-mom

    It’s not the volume of the noise, it’s the powerful low frequency that you can feel if you sit there long enough.

  27. Political_mama
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Isn’t it good to know that if you’re a patient next to Wagle, she happens to know what you have in your home and what insurance you have.

    Cell phones have become cheaper than home phones, god what a complete idiot. So now we shouldn’t have phones? My hubby and I both MUST have cell phones FOR OUR JOBS. I sometime watch HBO at a friend’s house.

    And what they don’t mention is that unless you’re healthy as an ox and never use your health savings plan, you’re still paying out of it just the same as if you were paying out of pocket.

    So 1000 in bills for the year which we can all agree- is NOTHING- POOF, nothing in your savings plan.

  28. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Monkeyhawk
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:32 am | Permalink
    Phred Felps’ message is just a notch or two past what is worshiped by traditional evangelical “christians.”

    All you twice-born Kansans know it.

    Phred Felps simply says what you believe in words that you think.

    In a perverse way, you almost have to admire Phred Felps for his willingness to say what all you twice-born really believe.

    _____________________________________________

    That be you chas. You were baptised right? You are a Christian?

    I know you don’t like to disagree with your buddies on here chas. So just take punk and maggots badge of hate and wear it proudly.

  29. Heckler
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    I think that if there are any future terrorists captured who we need to have information “extracted” from they should be housed at Gitmo II which will be located in the middle of a windfarm. Blindfold them for a couple days and I’ve a feeling they’ll be ready to spill their guts. And their lunch.

  30. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Ummmm SOL — I am NOT a traditional evangelical…. So, you are STILL tilting at a windmill…. Those guys arent talking about me or my denominaational group….

  31. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Wear yor badge with pride chas.

  32. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    ALSO Sol — You have to remember… In my denomination we ordain gay clergy, and we support same gender marriage… So, again, NO Monkey is not describing ME, or my denomination….

  33. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Baptised Christians. You aren’t one of them. got it chas.

  34. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    What’s up with the yard sign spamming? At least it isn’t on a current thread.

  35. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    I have friends here locally, who ride with the Patriot Guard…. some of them are Christians… some, not….

    My group is definitely not what Monkey, and Maggot, and Jay are talking about….

    Wanna try again??? If not, you better put out your flame thrower… you might get burned…. :-)

  36. lindainks55
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    So one group is all exactly alike, say Christians for example. But any other group isn’t.

    Sol, you usually make more sense.

  37. Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:50 am | Permalink
    Baptised Christians. You aren’t one of them. got it chas.
    ===========================================

    Damn it SOL — There you go lying again!!

  38. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Linda, look at what I posted from maggot. Just showing that maggot, junior and monkey are calling all Christians haters. Figured chas would defend his religious preference. I guess his loyalties to his blog buddies run deeper than his loyalty to God.

  39. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    SOL —- One More Time…. Thosae gjuys are lumping Fundamentalists (Twice-born) into that group… Those are not MY group…. How simple can it be???

    And where in the name of heaven, do you get off stating I am not baptized??? THAT makes you a liar!! Geez!!

  40. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Oh yea, and it is totally irrelevant as well… LOL

  41. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Sol says >>>>

    “Figured chas would defend his religious preference.”

    RIGHT…. and when I DO… then some of your buddies go off the wall, and say I am not a Christian….

    SO, which way do you want it???

    BTW, I AM defending my religious preference… by separating myself from the Fundamentalists/Extremists that Monkey, Maggot, and Jay are referring to…

  42. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

    Modern practice

    Celestial Church of Christ baptism in Cotonou, Benin.Today, baptism is most readily identified with Christianity, where it symbolizes the cleansing (remission) of sins, and the union of the believer with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection so that he may be called “saved” or “born again.” Most Christian groups use water to baptize and agree that it is important, yet may strongly disagree with other groups regarding aspects of the rite such as:

    Maggotpunk
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    You and I agree, Christianity is filth.

  43. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Your loyalties are evident chas. Whatever. Wear your badge with pride. Done with this.

  44. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    The baptism you post about is NOT our form of Baptism…. See, you got it wrong again!!

    There are many who practice baptism by immersion… WE DONT!!

    We baptize our infants…. When they get to about 7th Grade, we lead them in Confirmation Classes…. after which they accept their Faith as their own, and become members of the Church….

    MANY Christians do not baptize by immersion, but many do…. WE DONT!!

  45. GMC70
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Chas – Sol has a point. MP, MH, JR have made no distinctions between “fundamentalists” or any others. Christians are Christians to them, and all are just like Phelps.

    With friends like those . . .

  46. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    ALSO, last I looked, we are NOT located in Benin, Africa, either… which is what your wiki post referred to…. :roll:

  47. GMC70
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Chas – you really don’t think this is about whether you dunk or not, do you?

    Are you that naive? Well, OK, you are, but . . . . what with all your vaunted sheepskins, and all . . . you’d think you’d know better.

    Guess not.

  48. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Ummmm GMC…. read Monkey again…. He specificlly mentions the “twice-born” —- a reference to FUNDAMENTALISTS….

    I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE…. FAR FROM IT!!

    I also know that Jay and Maggot do not profess to be Christians of any kind…. So, why would I be in agreement with them??

    I cant stand Phelps…. But, I certainly wouldnt lump Phelps in with those, like myself, for example, who belong to churches that ordain Gay clergy, and support same gender marriage…. Monkey, and Jay and Maggot KNOW where I stand on those issues….

    Why dont you ask THEM if churches such as my denomination are included in their tirades???

  49. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Well, GMC, tell that to SOL…. HE posted about baptism as being a dunking exercise…. Myself, the only things I dunk, are donuts!! ROFL!!

  50. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    “Chas – Sol has a point. MP, MH, JR have made no distinctions between “fundamentalists” or any others. Christians are Christians to them”

    My posted word says otherwise.

  51. gster
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    If you CHILDREN don’t learn to play nice, we’re going to have to close the sand box!!

  52. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    BTW, GMC…. to a non-Christian, Christianity actually IS filth… and superstition…. and rituals…. From Maggot’s perspective, he is speaking his truth…

    Where do you find ME agreeing with him???

    This all started because SOL jumped me for not posting on the Phelps thread…. I dont think it was necessary… Why do YOU think it is necessary???

  53. GMC70
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Yea, JR, we know what your posted word is worth. Your actions speak volumes. You, MH, Maggot, are no different than Phelps. You revel in hate, and seeks to suppress that you disagree with.

    Live with it.

  54. okobserver
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Chass if you really look at the Phelps thread you will see that Pmom, MH, Maggot, Mary and Bluejay paint all Christians with the same brush. Are you one of us?

    How do you explain away your inclusion as a Christian by the loony libs that post here? Many posters are Catholic which doesn’t immerse either. That really is a non-argument.

    I didn’t want this discussion but refuse to set by and let the left define my Christianity. What about you?

  55. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    gster —- That might not be a bad idea…

  56. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    GMC, give some great examples of how I and MH have worked to suppress those we disagree with. I’m sure you have something other than merely stating our opinions. Perhaps we passed some legislation banning some activity like Bible thumpers did with gay marriage.

  57. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Granny —- I AM the Left…. I can define my own, thank you very much….

    NOW, Jay just POSTED that your statement, as far as he is concerned, is WRONG…. Why dont you ask the others if they include my Christianity in what they are ranting about??

    See what THEY might tell you, instead of attacking me, and jumping to your usual crazy conclusions???

  58. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    BTW, MYI denomination is one that is attacked BY the Phelps clan…. Maybe you didnt KNOW that… But, then, maybe you did… and just want to flame, and argue…

  59. okobserver
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Chass isn’t Christianity one belief system? Now denominations have differences but your left buddies no matter how you slice it said ‘all’ Christians. You just wear that ‘left’ label comfortably but don’t define Christianity by your standards.

    You poor pathetic person. Does inclusion by the hatred on the left make you feel warm and cozy?

  60. okobserver
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Chas
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:28 am | Permalink
    BTW, MYI denomination is one that is attacked BY the Phelps clan…. Maybe you didnt KNOW that… But, then, maybe you did… and just want to flame, and argue…
    ——
    BTW so was the denomination of Terry Fox so I guess you and Terry have a lot in common.

  61. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    WHY would Terry Fox be picketed by Phelps??? I mean, other than the act that Phelps is looney tunes??? Shoot, granny, FOX agrees with Phelps on the gay issue… and so did Joe Wright!! and a few dozen other clergy in this city….

  62. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Did you ever hear Terry Fox stand up for same gender marriage??? Hmmmm???? I think not.. Southern Baptists dont support such a thing…. which is their right….

  63. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    GMC opines, “You revel in hate, and seeks to suppress that you disagree with.”

    Exactly wrong, GMC. We seek to let voters know what you people believe–not to “supress” it but to educate people on your real values.

    For instance, there was a health-care forum yesterday in which some of our right-wing state legislators held forth on why essentially the poor deserve to die if they can’t afford health-care.

    Not surprisingly, no recording devices were allowed at the event.

    When KKKarl Rove was in Wichita at a State Republican event, no reporters were allowed to hear him speak.

    EPA reports were rewritten to excise facts about global warming.

    When Dick Cheney held his energy policy talks, this public servant refused refused to disclose even who participated.

    The NEO-CON wing of the Republican party does nothing but supress facts it doesn’t like, and you have the unmitigated gall to claim that “liberals supress arguments”?

    Project much?

  64. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    “Yea, JR, we know what your posted word is worth. ”

    Is that the Imperial “we” or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

    And when do they start inflating you for Macy’s?

  65. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    “They’re gonna make it look like suicide.” — Hunter S. Thompson, one day before his death, while working on a 9/11 piece.

  66. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    Why don’t textbooks discuss the “Cambrian explosion,” in which all major animal groups appear together in the fossil record fully formed . . .

    Yeah, and when was the Cambrian explosion, Hank? You don’t get to believe the earth is only 10 thousand years old and also argue using the fossil record at the same time.

    Sorry.

  67. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwillingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men.” — Woodrow Wilson

  68. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    “The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American’s freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight.” — JFK, ten days before he was assassinated

  69. GMC70
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Yea, Capn – just who are these “you people?”

    They must be the straw caricatures you work so hard to attack.

  70. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    “For many years I thought that FDR had developed many thoughts and ideas that were his own to benefit this country, the United States. But he didn’t. Most of his thoughts were carefully manufactured for him in advance by the Council on Foreign Relations-One World Money Group.” — Curtis Dall, FDR’s Son in Law

  71. Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Granny says >>>>

    “Chass isn’t Christianity one belief system?”

    Ummmm…. NO!! It isnt!!

  72. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    “The near monopoly of power once enjoyed by sovereign entities is being eroded. As a result, new mechanisms are needed for regional and global governance that include actors other than states. This is not to argue that Microsoft, Amnesty International, or Goldman Sachs be given seats in the United Nations General Assembly, but it does mean including representatives of such organisations in regional and global deliberations when they have the capacity to affect whether and how regional and global challenges are met. Moreover, states must be prepared to cede some sovereignty to world bodies if the international system is to function.
    Globalisation thus implies that sovereignty is not only becoming weaker in reality, but that it needs to become weaker.

    States would be wise to weaken sovereignty in order to protect themselves, because they cannot insulate themselves from what goes on elsewhere. Sovereignty is no longer a sanctuary.

    Necessity may also lead to reducing or even eliminating sovereignty when a government, whether from a lack of capacity or conscious policy, is unable to provide for the basic needs of its citizens.

    Richard N. Haass, President of the CFR

    http://www.cfr.org/publication/9903/sovereignty_and_globalisation.html

  73. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    It should not be surprising that most presidential
    candidates in the 2008 election are CFR members.

    Candidates do not advertise their CFR membership to the public. They pose as “liberals” and “conservatives” to control all aspects of the
    debate.

    The CFR has stacked the deck for the 2008 election with several members in the race from both sides of the isle:

    Democrat CFR Candidates:

    Barack Obama

    Hillary Clinton

    John Edwards

    Chris Dodd

    Bill Richardson

    Republican CFR Candidates:

    Mitt Romney

    Rudy Giuliani

    John McCain

    Fred Thompson

    Newt Gingrich

    http://www.nowpublic.com/obama-cfr

  74. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Although many politicians hold membership, It must be noted that the Council on Foreign Relations is a non-governmental organization. The CFR’s membership is a union of politicians, bankers, and scholars, with several large businesses holding additional corporate memberships.

    Corporate members include:

    Halliburton of Dubai

    British Petroleum

    Dutch Royal Shell

    Exxon Mobile

    General Electric (NBC)

    Chevron

    Lockheed Martin

    Merck Pharmaceuticals

    News Corp (FOX)

    Bloomberg

    IBM

    Time Warner

    JP Morgan/ Chase Manhattan

    http://www.nowpublic.com/obama-cfr

  75. Boxlock
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Funny and Factual:

    Real Men and Women Vote for McCain

    Top 10 reasons why.

    By Lou Aguilar

    1. Barack Hussein Obama spent 20 years sitting in church while his preacher and others bad-mouthed the United States of America . Navy pilot John McCain spent five years being tortured in the Hanoi Hilton, and refused a chance to walk out ahead of fellow POWs with more seniority.

    2. Obama wants to cut and run from Iraq regardless of conditions on the ground or future consequences. McCain took on the president and secretary of defense in demanding more troops for Iraq, a policy that is inarguably winning the war. He also has two sons who fought in Iraq .

    3. McCain supports nuclear power. Obama backs wind energy.

    4. Obama wants restrictive gun control because only economically depressed middle-Americans “cling to God and guns.” McCain unwaveringly supports the Second Amendment.

    5. McCain has deviated from his party’s conservative base on several occasions (McCain-Feingold Bill, Gang of 14, McCain-Kennedy Bill, opposition to torture). Obama has voted the left-wing line every single time, and been designated the most liberal Senator in Congress.

    6. Obama is willing to meet with hostile state leaders like Ahmadinejad and Hugo Chavez without preconditions. McCain will set conditions first, talk later – maybe.

    7. Obama is married to a bitter, angry lawyer who became “proud” of her country for the first time this year. McCain’s wife is a beer heiress who founded an organization to provide MASH-style units to disaster-torn world regions. Did I mention that she’s a beer heiress?

    8. Obama supports higher taxes for a government-run nanny state that will coddle all Americans like babies. McCain trusts people to spend their less-taxed money however they wish.

    9. The name John McCain sounds like “John McClain,” the action hero played by Bruce Willis in the manly Die Hard series. “Barack Obama” sounds like the kind of elitist villain John McClain has to outwit and defeat.

    10. McCain is endorsed by Clint Eastwood, Sylvester Stallone, and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Obama gets support from Leonardo DiCaprio, Matt Damon, Oprah Winfrey, Tom Hanks, and every weenie in Hollywood . Plus, Susan Sarandon has vowed to leave the country if McCain gets elected. Case closed.

    Lou Aguilar is a fiction writer and former Washington Post video critic, Washington Times television critic, and USA Today reporter.

  76. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    I chose the red pill.

    Did you take the blue one?

  77. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    I was looking for the Tiahrt Amendment topic.

    Isn’t it posted again today?

  78. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Murders in Chicago vs US Soldiers killed in Iraq.

    Anyone see the numbers for Jan to Jul this year?

  79. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    291 people killed in Chicago Jan-Jul 2008.

    221 US Military deaths in Iraq, during the same time period.

    http://icasualties.org/oif/

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c…,0,260187.story

  80. Boxlock
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Max,
    I know!!
    When I heard the statistics yesterday I quickly decided Iraq is a much much safer place to be than Chicago.

  81. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Murder rate in Chicago up 18 percent over 7-month period of 2007
    Sixty-two slayings in July, police source says
    By Angela Rozas | Chicago Tribune reporter
    11:10 PM CDT, August 6, 2008

    Violent crime continued to rise in Chicago after a deadly July in which 62 people were killed, according to unofficial numbers provided by a police source.

    For the first seven months of 2008, murders rose by 18 percent over the same period in 2007 and by 9 percent for the same period in 2006. According to internal police data, 291 people were killed from January through July, up from 246 in 2007 and 266 in 2006.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-chicago-murders-upaug07,0,260187.story

  82. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Say Boxlock, you know there’s something VERY SPECIAL in the DNC PLATFORM?

  83. lindainks55
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Search of gunman’s house finds weapons and a will

    By ANDREW DeMILLO – 1 hour ago

    SEARCY, Ark. (AP) — The sheriff’s office says a search of Arkansas gunman Timothy Dale Johnson’s home turned up 14 guns, antidepressants, his last will and testament and a Post-It note that bore his victim’s last name and a telephone number.

    Police are exploring possible links between Johnson, 50, and Arkansas Democratic Party chairman Bill Gwatney, 48. Johnson shot Gwatney to death Wednesday and was killed by officers after a 30-minute chase.

    Gwatney owned three Little Rock area car dealerships and Wednesday’s search of Johnson’s home turned up two sets of keys for vehicles from Gwatney car lots. The guns included a pistol and 13 long guns.

  84. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    From page 43 of the DemoRat Platform:

    “We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition,and we will preserve Americans’ continued Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne.

    We can work together to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements, like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons
    ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals.”

    http://www.workinglife.org/storage/users/4/4/images/111/2008%20democratic%20platform%20080808.pdf

    “…what works in Chicago…”

    What works in Chicago?????????????????????

    Riiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhttttttt!!!!!!!

  85. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Yup, the DemoRats are ALL ABOUT Banning Guns!!!!!

  86. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    WTF are they shooting at???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIC9mKFFE

    Swallow the blue pill.

  87. okobserver
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Chas
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink
    Granny says >>>>

    “Chass isn’t Christianity one belief system?”

    Ummmm…. NO!! It isnt!!
    ————
    Chass, You’re the preacher man I have to tell you that ALL Christian recognize Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Denominations might differ on lots of things but that fact doesn’t change.

    Did you get your sheepskins from a mailorder catalog?

  88. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    What? Chas is a Christian Preacher?

  89. Phantom
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    The Saudi Royal family is protected by the bush admin.
    U.S. court rules Saudi Arabia immune in 9/11 case 1 hour, 7 minutes ago

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, four princes and other Saudi entities are immune from a lawsuit filed by victims of the September 11 attacks and their families alleging they gave material support to al Qaeda, a federal appeals court ruled on Thursday.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    The ruling by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan upheld a 2006 ruling by U.S. District Judge Richard Casey dismissing a claim against Saudi Arabia, a Saudi charity, four princes and a Saudi banker of providing material support to al Qaeda before the September 11 attacks.

    The victims and their families argued that because the defendants gave money to Muslim charities that in turn gave money to al Qaeda, they should be held responsible for helping to finance the attacks.

    The appeals court found that the defendants are protected under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act.

    The court also noted that exceptions to the immunity rule do not apply because Saudi Arabia has not been designated a state sponsor of terrorism by the U.S. State Department.

  90. SolDevVB
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    The Saudi Royal family is protected by the bush admin.

    And you are suprised?

  91. Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plSGYWWSOHQ

    Here’s Rush Limpballs crowing about how maybe Edwards “wanted a woman who used her mouth for something other than talking.”

    Boy, he’s getting fat again.

    Also, you can tell he’s losing the ability to monitor the sound of his voice because of the deafness.

    Why does God hate Limbaugh?

  92. ANTI
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Why does God hate Limbaugh?
    —–
    Because he has a gay sister and went to college for 14 year olds? Sound about right Capn’A?

  93. Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    “We’ve been fighting two wars [against terrorism] so far. There’s going to be other wars. I will be calling on some of you young people to serve. This is going to be the challenge for the rest of the century.”

    John “BombIran” McCain

    “This guy make Cheney look like Gandhi.”

    Pat Buchannan

  94. lindainks55
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Obama Tops in Donations from Troops

    “Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain, and the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain’s haul,” the report said.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/08/14/obama_tops_in_donations_from_t.html

  95. beber
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    “291 people killed in Chicago Jan-Jul 2008″ — Max

    Killed in Iraq today: 38 — 109 wounded — http://antiwar.com/updates/

    Conclusion. Learn to make valid comparisons.

  96. avtolle
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Interesting, if true: Musharraf to resign by Monday. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/971acf1c-6a19-11dd-83e8-0000779fd18c,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F971acf1c-6a19-11dd-83e8-0000779fd18c.html&_i_referer=

  97. avtolle
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Wondering what that bodes for keeping Pakistan as an ally, and wondering how that may affect any attempt to enter Pakistan to track down Taliban and al Qauida interests operating from there, not to mention the alleged increased Pakistani attempts to capture the same.

  98. Pleefer
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Just buttressing my line that Georgia, with Israeli and American help, provoked Russia. But I’m humble enough to admit, that it not coming from Rush Limbaugh or Fox News, it’s by definition, not news, but merely tabloid.

  99. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    beber
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm | Permalink
    “291 people killed in Chicago Jan-Jul 2008? — Max

    Killed in Iraq today: 38 — 109 wounded — http://antiwar.com/updates/

    Conclusion. Learn to make valid comparisons.
    —————————————————————————–

    Ok Beber, how many WOUNDED in Chicago from Crimes?

    Conclusion: Learn to make valid comparisons.

  100. Pleefer
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081101372.html

    funny blog.

  101. MaxGrobnik
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Jan to Jul in Chicago, there were:

    251,181 Total Crimes
    1,645 Rapes
    15,106 Assaults
    1,543 Crimes Against Children
    291 Murders

    http://chicago.everyblock.com/crime/filter/?radius=8&d_to=7/31/2008&d_from=1/1/2008

  102. Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Of course, the number of dead in Iraq from the war don’t have anything to do with crime.

    There’s still plenty of crime in Iraq too.

    Learn to make valid comparisons, indeed.

  103. lindainks55
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Fossilized Feces Tell Tale of Earliest Americans

    “At the bottom of cave No. 5, we recovered horse and camel bones and a coprolite which produced human DNA,” Jenkins says. He and colleagues at the University of Oregon eventually found hundreds of coprolites. Six contained human DNA. What amazed Jenkins was how old they were: 14,300 years.”

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89355318

  104. Raptor
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Phantom/Sol…
    Since our government is made up of THREE entities, could you please expalin to me how a judicial court ruling is the ‘Bush admin protecting the Saudis’?

    There are 21 judges on the 2nd US court of Appeals, one appointed by Johnson, some by Carter, Reagan, Clinton, etc. Which judges were involved in the ruling? Were they only Bush apppintees?

    If you don’t know, how can you make such a claim? Or, are you just making things up like capn regularlay does?

    You know….using some FACTS now and then would be a refreshing change from these unsubstantiated claims that appear here so often.

  105. Raptor
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Richard Conway Casey was the judge that initially made that ruling that was upheld by the appeals court. Judge Casey, who died in 2007, was appointed to the federal bench by Bill Clinton.

    Please explain to me how the Bush Administration figures into this?

    Just like capn…shoot off statements that have no validity, no basis in FACT, and make no sense. Buttt..that doesnt’ stop people from making outrageous claims to try to ‘prove’ something.

    Typical garbage. Would LOVE to see you justify this one.

  106. beber
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    “Ok Beber, how many WOUNDED in Chicago from Crimes?” — no Max, that’s your job to find out. You’re the one asking.

  107. beber
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    “’At the bottom of cave No. 5, we recovered horse and camel bones and a coprolite which produced human DNA,” Jenkins says. He and colleagues at the University of Oregon eventually found hundreds of coprolites. Six contained human DNA. What amazed Jenkins was how old they were: 14,300 years.’”
    — ms inks

    Did it still stink; now that would be amazing, or were there conservatives in those days?

  108. Raptor
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Typical blog behavior. Get caught in a lie and then run and hide…no honor, no maturity to admit that the “Bush Admin” had no bearing on this court decision..

    We won’t hear anything more from them on this lie, will we? Nope. They just hide and wait to come out with more hatred and lies.

    Sucks to be you, doesn’t it? Your hatred blinds you to fact, your closed mindedness prevents you from seeing anything except blind hatred.

    Pathetic.

  109. Pleefer
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Typical blog behavior.

    What? That some folks eat in the evening and don’t hang in front of a ‘puter screen all day long?

    That kind of behavior?

    I ain’t lying neither.

  110. Phantom
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Bush administration determines who’s on the terrorist countries list. I’d say if the royal family bankrolled the attack, they’re terroris supporters.

  111. Raptor
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    pleefe…try something new, will you? Read the ENTIRE post instead of just addressing one sentence and reacting in a typical knee jerk manner. Did I ever mention you? Nope, I sure didn’t.

  112. Pleefer
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    I read it. Just more “typical” left/right silliness. And no, you didn’t mention me, so I’ll retract my last post. I’m sorry for interrupting.

    But my two-cents worth says that Bush and the Saudi’s have a lot to hide within the whole 9/11 official myth. And that they are fortunate to have such good friends in the judicial branch.

  113. Phantom
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Although the judges can, they are very reluctant to let suits go forward in these types of cases without a declaration of ‘terrorist state’. So while you could get a case through on Iran, you can’t get one through for your good friend that attacked you.

  114. Raptor
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    You are right in the “typical left/right silliness” and I get tired of the false accusations and outright lies. Like capns assertion about all church shooters being “CONs”…something he cannot and obviously will not verify.

    To the best of my memory, I don’t make gross and false generalizations like that. I don’t blindly made defensive claims regardless of fact. I like to deal with facts…too bad that sentiment isn’t more popular around here.

  115. Raptor
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    So, the Saudis gave money to Muslim charities who then gave some to al queda…and a federal judge appointed by Bill Clinton said there is no case. This was upheld by a federal appeals court–made up of a mix of appointees by presidents of both parties….and it is Bush’s fault?

    man…what a reach.

    Is anything not the direct fault of a very unpopular president? I don’t much care for him and am very disappointed in him, but I can’t blame him for every worldwide concern–the facts just are not there..

  116. Phantom
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    The judge ruled the defendents were protected by the foreign immunity act. Considering the list of plantiffs, it’s a stretch to think it would apply to all of them.
    If it couldn’t be proven in court, the plaintiffs wouldn’t have lost anyway. They would’ve needed to prove the charities were a conduit to the terrorist, and most likely that the plaintiffs knew it or should have known.

  117. Pleefer
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    I’ve come to grips with the fact that since I listen to and view real news, my statements on here are generally spot on. And it actually sickens me and terrifies me that I am right (most of the time). CNN is now showing what the rest of the world already knew, Georgia started the fight. We American’s will never admit that we could be conned by, no, not our government, but criminals that have, over the years, infiltrated and taken the place of any legitimate government we would hope to have. No, we actually believe that we’re much to “smart” to be taken like that. Funny thing is, we’re the most dumbed down and ignorant of the whole globe. When folks find out that 9/11 was in fact, an “inside job”, I wonder what we’ll believe then…

    When that day happened, I KNEW that those 3 buildings should not have fallen like they did (”because of fire”). I just figured (at that time) that the damned Osama guy had people on the inside to set explosives.

    But since ‘03 my eyes are opened, not because I’m a “kooky tin-foiler” like some like to think of me on here, but because I’ve read books that the “power elite” folks have written. In the past, I would have even laughed at myself over the things I talk about. What happened with me is that I’ve read and watched these people talk to one another (in broad daylight on the news and in their memoirs) about their plans. They know that we’re sufficiently dumbed down that 90% of us don’t read anything. And those that do have been Pavlov’d into biting on the stigma that if you question anything, you’re “obviously a nut, not to be taken seriously”. Yeah, the whole “New World Order” thing is real, hell Georgia’s president just said those exact words on the Glenn Beck show just yesterday (Google it if you think I’m nuts). These people want a perfect world (for them), they want 80% of the population gone and what better way to do that than war? These folks make the best of us believe that they are God-fearing and pious. When these same “pious” and “born-again” leaders of ours go to their little club out by San Fransisco (Bohemian Grove), dressed up in druidic garb, mocking human sacrifice in front of a big statue of an owl, they are laughing at all of us.

    When you’re watching the news after some tornado has hit and you hear people saying that, “we never thought it could happen to us”, that’s what we’re doing right now. We’re in a big, collective rejection of reality.

    When I see and hear folks tied up in arguments over the left this and the right that, I know that our population is right where the power wants us to be, fighting with each other, so we’ll not notice them.

    The ravings of a lunatic.

  118. Pleefer
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    More rantings of better qualified lunatics:

    Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. – Lord John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, a 19th C. (1834-1902) British historian and philosopher.

    “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.” — John Adams

    “Posterity – you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.” – John Quincy Adams

    “If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its patriots to its ruin.” – Samuel Adams (1780)

    “Within our own borders we possess all the means of sustenance, defense, and commerce; at the same time, these advantages are so distributed among the different states of this continent as if nature had in view to proclaim to us be united among yourselves, and you will want nothing from the rest of the world.” Samuel Adams July 4, 1776, on Independence

    “Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government purposes are beneficent…The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning, but without understanding.” — Justice Louis Brandeis, 1928

    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. – Edmund Burke 1729-1797

    “In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press….They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. “An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.” – U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917

    “Men occasionally stumble over truth, most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.” Winston Churchill

    “Freedom requires unflagging devotion and unflappable courage. In fighting for freedom we must ‘never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never… never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy’.” –Justice Thomas quoting Winston Churchill

    “We are reduced to the alternative of choosing unconditional submission to the tyranny of irritated ministers, or resistance by force. The latter is our choice. We have counted the cost of this contest, and find nothing so dreadful as voluntary slavery. Honor, justice, and humanity, forbid us tamely to surrender that freedom which we received from our gallant ancestors, and which our innocent posterity have a right to receive from us.” — Revolutionary, John Dickinson, in the Continental Congress’s Declaration on the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms in 1775

    “The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments’ plans. ” – British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876

    “Find out just what the people will submit to and you will have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” – Frederick Douglass

    “As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air– however slight– lest we become the unwitting victims of the darkness.” WILLIAM O. DOUGLAS (Supreme Court Justice 1939-75)

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin

    “The government of the Western nations, whether monarchical or republican, had passed into the invisible hands of a plutocracy, international in power and grasp. It was, I venture to suggest, this semi-occult power which….pushed the mass of the American people into the cauldron of World War I.” – British military historian Major General J.F.C. Fuller, l941

    “Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature .. If the next centennial does not find us a great nation…it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces.” – James Garfield in 1877

    “A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away” Barry Goldwater

    “I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of God, I will do.” – Edward Everett Hale

    Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains or slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death! – Patrick Henry (March 20, 1775)

    “…Virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone that renders us invincible. These are the tactics we should study. If we lose these, we are conquered, fallen indeed…so long as our manners and principles remain sound, there is no danger.” — Patrick Henry

    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. – Hosea 4:6

    “The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen….At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually runs the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties.” – New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922

    The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” –Thomas Jefferson

    “Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.” – Thomas Jefferson

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. – Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    “The republican is the only form of government which is not eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind.” — Thomas Jefferson

    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” — Thomas Jefferson — The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)

    “I do verily believe that a single, consolidated government would become the most corrupt government on the earth.” -Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800

    “The God Who gave us life gave us liberty — can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?” Inscription on the Jefferson Memorial

    President Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1805, offered A National Prayer for Peace: Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in Thee to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
    “Wickedness is always easier than virtue; for it takes the short cut to everything.” – Samuel Johnson

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily lives, and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.” John F. Kennedy

    “Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or promulgated [emphasis mine], that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government.” – Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

    “A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday does not know where it is today.” — Robert E. Lee

    “If there is anything which it is the duty of the whole people to never entrust to any hands but their own – that thing is the preservation of their own liberties and institutions.” Abraham Lincoln

    “The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” ABRAHAM LINCOLN (17 September 1859, speech in Cincinnati, OH)

    A diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty. — James Madison 1825

    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed — and thus clamorous to be led to safety — by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” — H.L. Mencken

    “He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression.” — Thomas Paine, 1795

    The trade of governing has always been monopolized by the most ignorant and the most rascally individuals of mankind. – Thomas Paine

    “Those people who are not governed by GOD will be ruled by tyrants.” — William Penn

    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. – Plato (427-347 B.C.)

    “Oh, my countrymen! What will our children say, when they read the history of these times? Should they find we tamely gave away without one noble struggle, the most invaluable of earthly blessings? As they drag the galling chain, will they not execrate us? If we have any respect for things sacred; any regard to the dearest treasures on earth; if we have one tender sentiment for posterity; if we would not be despised by the whole world – let us in the most open, solemn manner, and with determined fortitude, swear we will die, if we cannot live free men!” Josiah Quincy, Jr., 1788 published in the Boston Gazette

    “Government can’t solve the problem. Government is the problem.” — Ronald Reagan

    “There is a fundamental difference between separation of church and state and denying the spiritual heritage of this country. Inscribed on the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C. are Jefferson’s words, ‘The God Who gave us life gave us liberty — can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?’ ” –Ronald Reagan

    “We’re Americans and we have a rendezvous with destiny…. No people who have ever lived on this earth have fought harder, paid a higher price for freedom, or done more to advance the dignity of man than Americans.” –Ronald Reagan

    “We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries.” David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address before that organization in June of 1991

    “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.” – A letter written by Franklin Delano Roosevelt to Colonel House, November 21st, l933

    “The Roman Republic fell, not because of the ambition of Caesar or Augustus, but because it had already long ceased to be in any real sense a republic at all. When the sturdy Roman plebeian, who lived by his own labor, who voted without reward according to his own convictions, and who with his fellows formed in war the terrible Roman legion, had been changed into an idle creature who craved nothing in life save the gratification of a thirst for vapid excitement, who was fed by the state, and who directly or indirectly sold his vote to the highest bidder, then the end of the republic was at hand, and nothing could save it. The laws were the same as they had been, but the people behind the laws had changed, and so the laws counted for nothing.” – Teddy Roosevelt

    “No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation.” – David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

    “We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world.” – Professor Arnold Toynbee, in a June l931 speech before the Institute for the Study of International Affairs in Copenhagen.

    “When you control someone’s information you control that person’s fate. Ignorance is pure evil! ” – Dr. Louis Turi

    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself. – Mark Twain (1835-1910)

    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. – H. G. Wells (1866-1946)

    “Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – (President) Woodrow Wilson, The New Freedom (1913)

  119. Political_mama
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Thumbs up Pleef. I don’t subscribe to the whole Bush 911 plot, but given enough real evidence, Its not that I think it’s beyond him.

  120. StevenEDavis
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    The current issue of Mother Jones is probably the best in a long, long time. Check it out:

    http://www.motherjones.com/toc/2008/09/index.html

  121. StevenEDavis
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:46 am | Permalink

    “Jenkins says. He and colleagues at the University of Oregon eventually found hundreds of coprolites. Six contained human DNA. What amazed Jenkins was how old they were: 14,300 years.”
    ^^^^^

    What do you want to bet that the above info just makes Hank want to sh*t. Hehehehehe, ad infinitim…

  122. Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    It wont bother Hank, Steven…. Dont you know that God put it there 6 – 8,000 years ago, so we would find it now, and believe that it was older?? /sarcasm off/

  123. Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:51 am | Permalink

    Wow, what a day at the Olympics!!

    Good night; Good luck; God bless —-
    Whatever you conceive God to be!!

    Blessings ALL!!

    Hail to the FSM!!

    So mote it be!!

  124. StevenEDavis
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    Yes, I am digging the olympics. Any one else notice that Phelps’s mom was a middle school prinicpal. She got him into swimming because she thought it would help him with his ADHD. Funny how those government employees sometimes know what they are doing, don’t you think?

    Also, the Mother Jones issue linked above won’t be free for a few weeks. In the mean time check out the website:

    http://www.motherjones.com/

  125. Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    Dr. (of theology and ministry) William H. Crews is a televangelist starring in his own show, The Awakening Hour. He was arrested on July 27 for driving under the influence and violating state liquor laws. This arrest came two days before he was arrested at his home on a charge of criminal domestic violence. The police report states that Crews came home drunk and argued with his wife, Dr. (of ministry) Freda Crews. Fearing for her safety she grabbed a gun and locked herself in a bathroom. From there she called a relative who then called the police.

    Freda Crews is a licensed professional counselor and certified clinical mental health counselor who also writes books on depression, grief, and marriage. She hold two doctorates. Not only did this versatile scholar receive a doctorate from the International University for Graduate Studies, in St. Kitts, West Indies, but she’s also the Dean of the University!

    At the time of his first arrest William Crews complained to police that he has a heart condition that requires him to drink a small amount of alcohol and that he’d only had half a bottle of wine before he was stopped by the troopers. He failed a field sobriety test. He spent the night in jail and was released the next day on bail.

    William Crews was an alcoholic and professional pool hustler before he came to Christ.

  126. Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Howard Douglas Porter, 57, a former pastor of Hickman Community Church, is facing life in prison without the possibility of parole for murder for financial gain and murder of a witness.

    Porter’s victim was Frank Craig, an 85-year-old bachelor who had squirreled away a lifetime of savings, and inherited $2 million from a life insurance policy. Porter befriended him and offered to build an agriculatural museum, which would house Craig’s collection of antique agricultural tools. Then Porter staged two car wrecks, the first left Craig unable to walk and the second killed him. Porter spent Craig’s money and even sold his home, but ground was never broken for the museum project.

    According to CNN, Porter “…was convicted Monday of first-degree murder, embezzlement, elder abuse and attempted murder.”

  127. Posted August 15, 2008 at 3:12 am | Permalink

    Interesting reading >>>>

    http://www.jimmarrs.com/

  128. Posted August 15, 2008 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Re: Above web site >>>>

    Scroll down to article dated: March 14, 2008

  129. Regular
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 4:52 am | Permalink

    You really need to stop visiting these ‘tin foil’ Websites Chas.

  130. sunflower5
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    CapnAmerica
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
    Regular lies, “It took me 22 years to earn that [my tax funded disability].”
    Incorrect.
    You happened to have the good fortune to work for an employer (the US military) that doesn’t just throw people to the wolves when they get injured on the job.
    The same thing you have is what you want to deny and disparage for others.
    That’s why you are a WELFARE CON.
    __________________________________________________

    Pretty sad Capa when you consider a military person a welfare con. It only shows your ignorance. Because of the military you are allowed the freedom to say the things you do. You should be thanking them.
    __________________________________________________
    Franklin
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Permalink
    Capn
    OBAMA SAYS THAT HE WOULD GARNISH THE WAGES OF IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT PURCHASE HEALTH INCURANCE FOR THEIR FAMILIES!
    The issue has been answered.
    YOUR Nominee agrees with Wagle and Landwehr!
    __________________________________________________

    Franklin you are right on target. Capa is not able to think outside of his little world of liberals that tell him what to believe. As much as it saddens me to say this I will have to agree with the Obama quote. He as also called on black men (who produce a lot of babies) to step up to the plate and take responsibility and be the man he should be. I have to agree.
    __________________________________________________
    Chas
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
    ANTI — IIRC, just the ownership of a $50,000 vehicle would automaticlly disqualify a person/family from receiving food stamps, or income maintenance… UNLESS that has changed in the past three or four months.
    _________________________________________________

    Vehicles are exempt when looking at qualifying for welfare. So they could own a $50,000 vehicle.
    _______________________________________________

    Chas
    Why do you think Clinton passed some of the toughest welfare reform legislation that has been passed in years??? Get people BACK to work…. STOP the welfare family generation problem…. dont allow the welfare system to become a part of anybody’s family heritage….
    I have a relative who is an employee claims specialist for 120 different companies. She told me the average cost for private health insurance for a family is around $1,600 per month. My friend who works as a nurse at another agency here in town was also told that buying private health insurance for her family (her husband lost his job) would cost around that much.
    Just in case inquiring minds are wondering where I got my info.
    ______________________________________________
    Clinton passed welfare reform because of his re-election. It had nothing to do with stopping welfare families.
    If a family is paying $1,600 per month they are either stupid or have the Cadillac of all Cadillac policies in existence. You can buy reasonable coverage for a family if you want to. The key here is that you must “want” to.