On paper, a Wichita Catholic school won a legal victory last week in a judge’s ruling that its English-only policy didn’t violate a group of Hispanic students’ civil rights.
But U.S. District Judge J. Thomas Marten made clear in his remarks that St. Anne Catholic School bore its share of responsibility for its poor handling of the controversy.
He said school officials implemented a “one-sided” policy “without consulting with the segment of the school it would impact the most.”
He noted, too, a double standard in enforcing it: “The Caucasian students were not told to go eat lunch with the Hispanic students or participate in their soccer games,” he said. “It was all directed at the Hispanic students.”
And where was the fairness, he asked, in expelling a student, Adam Silva, who had never done anything wrong?
Too bad each side didn’t work harder to understand the other’s position and truly find common ground. Too bad this had to end up in a courtroom.
The school might have won a narrow legal victory. But as the judge suggested, the entire school lost.
42 Comments
It’s a private school. If you don’t like the rules don’t send your kids there. It is really that simple
Well, Randy,
I’m pretty sure, if I read your paper right, that St Anne Catholic School won the suit.
It was a frivolous law suit. The parents that brought it should have to pay St Anne’s legal bills too.
And from a religion that conducts its bullcrap in Latin. Speech in any language is protected by the first amendment.
Bull – while I disagree with the reason teh suit was brought, they really did very wrong. Catholics are running off their biggest supporters, and that is downright stupid.
Asking the white kids to not play with the hispanic kids….what is that about? All hispanics should pull their kids out of that school immediately for such discrimination.
This is why I don’t like private schools, they can do whatever they want and get away with it.
No matter how wrong.
It seems like it was not about rights, or discrimination, or anything else. It was filed in federal court, where the baseline for monetary damages is $75,000 and goes up from there. It appears it was all about the cash.
If you want your kids to speak Spanish?
There is a long list of countries in which you can choose to do so.
Take the child and go there.
I’d rather send them to Spanish class, Bluejay.
Can’t you stand, sit and kneel, all day long in any language?
Genesis 11:7, “let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech”.
Let us…did you see that? LET US?
That’s a whole other can o’ worms.
beber, you are wrong. freedom of speech is not absolute, regardless of language.
Threatening speech is not protected. Yelling FIRE in a crowded theater is not protected. Using a bullhorn in a residential neighborhood at 3AM to broadcast your political views is not protected.
This was not about freedom of speech, but about intimidation. The lawsuit was shameful to begin with, as the judge stated. The attorney should be sanctioned for even filing it.
Yep yep,
“Lo siento, los que gimotean, pero ésta es América, inglés es la lengua primaria. Usando español a las cuadrillas de los insultos o de la forma del disfraz en escuelas no será tolerado.”
Typical Randy thread.
What’s “on paper” Randy is what counts.
Who cares what the judge thinks or says as long as he decides in the schools favor. Ya think they would have preferred to lose, a ridiculous decision that would have been, but had the families get a tongue lashing from the judge. Chuckle, chuckle.
And I agree the cost of this frivolous suit should have been born 100% by those bringing it and wasting everyone’s time and money.
The administrators of the school decide the rules and what takes place not the students. Comply or leave.
“Boxlock” offers –
“Comply or leave.”
…said the priest to the altar boy.
Wichita Public Schools has a K-8 program that is a dual language magnet. If I understand correctly, they teach Spanish by using that language in every subject — math, science, social studies. I think on the Spanish speaking days all students read and speak that language exclusively. Someone said when they come out of that program it is as if they’ve spent a semester (or whatever time period) in another country. Also seems to be an effective program!
I agree with the judge that lessons should be learned on both sides of this issue. We’re so divided on most subjects and we seem to have lost our abilities for compromise, disagreeing agreeably, diplomacy. Since we adults set the examples for children we probably should think about our conduct if we want our children to learn those skills.
I’ve never known a time when increased knowledge and skills isn’t desirable. Looks like the school and the parents have some lessons to learn and all will be better for the learning.
Ha, Regular you crack me up.
Is this close to what you said?
“Yep yep,
“I feel it, the ones that whine, but this is America, English is the primary tongue. Using Spaniard to the squads of the insults or of the form of the disguise in schools will not be tolerated.”
“Boxlock” offers –
“Comply or leave.”
…said the priest to the altar boy.”
The Degenerate Monkey reveals his mind with his tongue. As expected.
#
Boxlock
Posted August 19, 2008 at 8:02 am | Permalink
Ha, Regular you crack me up.
Is this close to what you said?
“Yep yep,
“I feel it, the ones that whine, but this is America, English is the primary tongue. Using Spaniard to the squads of the insults or of the form of the disguise in schools will not be tolerated.”
———————-
Yep yep,
except “squads” is gangs and “Spaniard” is Spanish.
“Threatening speech is not protected. Yelling FIRE in a crowded theater is not protected. Using a bullhorn in a residential neighborhood at 3AM to broadcast your political views is not protected.” — Raptor
But talking to your friend in Spanish is protected speech, Raptor. It’s too f-ing bad that the white kids felt intimidated. I happen to speak some Spanish, and I know what people who speak it are saying in the grocery store. Things like: “my husband wants two shirts.”
Although I can easily imagine Spanish speaking students dissing whites in Spanish, so what? It’s no different than Jr. High girls whispering about each other in the halls.
Under your interpretation of the Constitution, high school rodeo would be outlawed, and you couldn’t use a lariet.
Being insulted to your face, and not understanding what was said about you, isn’t the same as being insulted behind your back. There’s that smugness factor.
There’s a time and place to speak in your native tongue, that time and place is not in mixed company during school or work, unless you’re translating to someone.
The kids will learn a valuable lesson in etiquete.
IF the Catholic church wants to alienate one of its biggest support groups then so be it. and as a private school they can set their own rules, but really telling kids who they have to sit with at Lunch, who you have to play with at recess, and how you can talk, plus a English only policy looks silly when the Church conducts much of its Business in Latin(which Spanish comes from) and its leader speaks German.
Phantom, I work with a couple of Russian girls that they speak Russian to each other while in the break room or at lunch bothers me not one bit. also have several Hispanics from several countries, one time a coworker rudly interjected herself in a conservation with the Hispanics and proclaimed the in the “In US we speak English” Now half those ladies hail from Puerto Rico so I quietly informed her that for over a 100 years Puerto Rico has been part of the US.
I think that Randy is missing a few points as well as marbles. First, the Lawyer should be the one made to pay all the expenses for taking the case.
Second, the parents are bullies that maybe thought that the school would settle out of court and they would get their way. I would like to congratulate the school for not backing down and giving into bullies.
Just another example of a few students doing bad things and making it hard on all. I just hope no other private school lets them enroll and keeps them in public schools where they belong.
beber
You are wrong, once again.
Mass is usually conducted in the language of the area.
We also have Spanish Masses in this city.
The Catholic Church irritates many of its members by being very opposed to real immigration reform.
The Catholic Church should learn a lesson here:
Some (though only a few) of the Mexican immigrants to this country are only going to play the system to their advantage, including frivolous law suits.
Monkey
The Priest Sex Abuse problem was actually small, in the number of Priests involved.
Less than 1% of the Priesthood was involved.
In almost all of those cases, it was a homosexual male Priest taking advantage of a male, after puberty.
Your bigotry shows again.
I just want to note how very pro-discrimination the right is here.
“The Catholic Church irritates many of its members by being very opposed to real immigration reform.”
Probably because immigrants from Latin America are one of the few things that stops the otherwise mass Exodus of people from the Catholic Church and keeps church attendance and tithes from declining as well. Plus historically immigration reform as often been a veil for racism and anti Catholicism
I’m aware that masses are conducted in Spanish, and English. I’m also aware of the Latin tradition of the church and I’m also aware that even in this country, portions of the service are still conducted in Latin.
“Ecclesiastical Latin (sometimes called Church Latin) is the Latin dialect as used in documents of the Roman Catholic Church and in its Latin liturgies” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_Latin
Paul – I think we also have a VietNamese mass. And, I think, at least a couple of old-fashioned Latin ones.
Can you imagine the Spanish speaking students of an American Catholic school chanting their liturgies in Latin, yet not allowed to speak in Spanish to their Spanish speaking friends?
Latin is extremely rarely used in masses.
I worked at a place with alot of mexicans. One day one of them made a derogatory statement about the mgr. to another mexican. To their surprise the mgr. understood spanish, and went off on them.
“Just another example of a few students doing bad things and making it hard on all. I just hope no other private school lets them enroll and keeps them in public schools where they belong.” — Right Angle
Hosana. At last, the right admits that kids who speak Spanish deserve places in our public schools and public universities. What a breakthrough!
beber, do you know what a right angle is? Did you take math in public schools?
beber, just in case you were absent that day they covered right angles. A right angle is not an acute angle which is right leaning or an obtuse angle that is left leaning but is one that is in the center.
Tim, I’m not saying that if they want to have a private conversation off to the side, in their native tongue they shouldn’t.
But, when they’re in part of a larger group, or work group, and start having conversations excluding everyone else, they shouldn’t.
That is rude, and what they’re saying should be suspect.
oops, Tom.
touche, right angle. You win.
Ha! That shut him up.
I don’t worry about speaking another language, you know, it is a choice of social segregation that I choose.
A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Speaking to an insider, the mom who instigated this lawsuit is a trouble maker everywhere she goes. Her kid was using Spanish to bully other kids and talk back to the teacher, he was asked to stop, but refused to do so, which is no surprise given his mom is also a bully.
At no time did anyone ever tell the white kids not to play with the Hispanic ones…that’s just silly.
It’s a private school, if parents want to insist that their darling be able to speak Spanish freely any time his little heart desires, then take him to a public school. That’s where they have behavior disorder classes, which sounds like where he needs to be.
well that changes the whole outlook now doesn’t it.
After hearing all the children share their stories of being isolated, reprimanded, and humiliated, Judge Marten looked toward the Principal and said, “I find this quite interesting . . . that there was no problem prior to the English-only rule. English was already agreed upon as the language you speak at all times. But you implemented a ruled without any consultation to the group that it would impact the most. You were actually recruiting people telling them you have a bilingual mass . . . yet you made no efforts to discuss accommodations, a compromise, nothing? Seeking solutions as a matter of mutual respect. . . Where’s the fairness there?”