“The charge that McCain is sacrificing his own cherished and hard-won reputation, and that he may never recover it if his campaign keeps this up, is most certainly correct,” New York Observer columnist Steve Kornacki wrote about John McCain going negative. “But the assumption that this will also destroy his chances of winning the presidency — or even diminish them — has less basis in reality.”
Kornacki argued that McCain can’t win just by being himself, because of the sizable anti-GOP mood in the country. “What can win him the election, as sad as it is to say, is the kind of campaign he is now resorting to,” Kornacki wrote. “McCain’s aides have privately told the press that they see the fall race as a referendum on Obama. They are right. This campaign is not about hordes of undecided voters weighing the pros and cons of McCain and Obama; it is about hordes of undecided voters who are inclined — both because of his party label and his personality — to vote for Obama, but who still have trouble imagining him as America’s commander in chief.”
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116 Comments
Yea we need a cic that has stood up to his captors, and said ‘hell no, I won’t go’ home until those with more seniority go first. That is a true John Wayne type.
Obama is an empty suit.
Obama is simply a celebrity with no substance.
The Britney and Paris ad makes that point.
Obama is an egomaniac.
The “Messiah” ad makes that point.
The advertising is honest.
Come on, Eagle! How many characatures of Bush as stupid, or looking like a “chimp” or having some stuttering problems, can the left play, without you jumping on the left?
McCain has nothing good to say about himself – that is why he has to be so negative.
I absolutely approve of the McCain camp campaign plan! I think it is perfect and congratulate them while hoping they step up the attacks! ;-)
Just like our very own Roberts. You’d think with a 40 yr. resume, accomplishments would not be a problem.
If anyone runs across a pow refusing to be repatriated, and his captors acquiescing, please post. I’ve been trying to research it, beginning to believe it is unprecedented. All I can find about the matter is what Mccain says happened.
Maybe he had the Stockholm syndrome.
Hi, my name is Regular and I approve this message.
This ad is FUNNY!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mopkn0lPzM8
“Franklin” rants –
“Obama is an empty suit.”
John Sidney McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) is a guy in a lumpy suit riding on George HW Bush’s golf cart in a pair of $580 Italian loafers.
“Don’t vote for Obama!
People like him!!”
How ironic: after attacking Obama’s experience, McCain wants us to believe that his past 25 years in the Congress isn’t at all relevant.
Heh, good luck with that, John.
“Vote for me: i’m the asshole you know!”
Isn’t it a bit disingenuous to deride your opponents populartity, while at the same time maintaining that you’re running neck and neck?
I’ll say this much, to the extent that the ‘cult of personality’ helps Obama (and, face it, that is a factor), McCain has made his point. That’s fine: we’re better for it.
But “empty suit” is a dumb argument, not only because it’s untrue, but because the very people who might fall for it are the same people who don’t pay that much attention in the first place! :)
The only ones that would buy that empty suit b.s. are the ones that are ardent repubs. and thus it add nothing to the campaign.
When it gets down to the soundbites that are all most do listen to and one side is all negative while the other isn’t. Who does that reflect poorly on? This is an exceptional idea by the McCain camp!
True, Phantom! The 24%ers are voting for McCain. Many have admitted they will need to hold their nose to do so. Some have worded it more kindly but it means the same.
Congress’s approval rate is like 18 percent. Does that mean that Obama supporters can be called 18 percenters?
Hmmmm???
Sure! You can call us anything you like. That is kinder than some names used here. ;-)
I guess I haven’t seen the negativity in the ads. Obama says he is ‘what we have been waiting for’ and took his campaign to the world stage.
I see McCains camp using Obama’s own words against him. If he said them then he should stand behind them. If they hurt him its because people are finally getting a glimpse of the real Obama. So be it.
I will be voting for the strawberry douche, not the chocolate douche even though they are both douches.
ANTI
While such mud-slinging IS, in fact, usually successful it seems to me that he is starting it too early. This sort of garbage is usually more effective shortly before election day. Sort of like the anti-McCain ‘push polls’ in South carolina in 2000.
“Hmmmm???”
NO. Most of the problem in the Congress comes from the Republics in the Senate and their filibusters.
Ben
You love to bring up the “anti-McCain push polls” in South Carolina.
You are a liar Ben.
Yes, at one time, McCain thought, in the heat of the campaign, that this really happened.
However, every Republican telephone bank, every Bush telephone bank, offered up ALL telephone scripts, and an opportunity to interview all of their employees.
Also, a public call was made, for a SINGLE voter, in all of South Carolina, to come forward and verify these, alleged, negative telephone calls.
There were no takers.
It NEVER happened.
You have been informed of this, before.
Ben
It was Pelosi who REFUSED to allow a vote on the energy issue, and adjourned early.
Pelosi is a big part of the problem.
Franklin thanks for straightening that out once more. It is much like the claim of negative ads we are hearing today.
Not sure what they are finding so negative. Unless they are listening to what Obama is saying about the ads and not the ads themselves.
ok
I guess it is negative to ask:
“Is he ready to lead”???
Almost every other word is directly out of Obama’s own mouth!
Pelosi want to work on the energy policy after she has the solid numbers to push through good legislation. It’s called strategy.
“You have been informed of this, before.:”
True Paul – you have made your claim before. And you will make it again. Doesn’t make your claim true. YOU are the liar Paul.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/
The anatomy of a smear campaign
Having run Senator John McCain’s campaign for president, I can recount a textbook example of a smear made against McCain in South Carolina during the 2000 presidential primary. We had just swept into the state from New Hampshire, where we had racked up a shocking, 19-point win over the heavily favored George W. Bush. What followed was a primary campaign that would make history for its negativity.
In South Carolina, Bush Republicans were facing an opponent who was popular for his straight talk and Vietnam war record. They knew that if McCain won in South Carolina, he would likely win the nomination. With few substantive differences between Bush and McCain, the campaign was bound to turn personal. The situation was ripe for a smear.
Like I said they’re absolutely genius ideas! Go for more! I think pointing out that your opponent is popular, well liked, exciting, young, charismatic, inspirational, well spoken, intelligent, draws large crowds of “fans” who really like him is something we need to see much more of!
I know McCain fans don’t have to worry that a similar ad would be done with regard to their candidate. I think Cindy only stays awake while McCain speaks if she is standing up beside him. I’ve always thought that might be one reason she doesn’t take a seat. The other would be a trophy is something one wants to show off.
http://www.bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=522
“What Bush did to McCain in the 2000 S. C. primary”
FACT SHEET:
Bush Waged Nasty Smear Campaign Against McCain in 2000
Bush Supporters Called McCain “The Fag Candidate.” In South Carolina, Bush supporters circulated church fliers that labeled McCain “the fag candidate.” Columnist Frank Rich noted that the fliers were distributed “even as Bush subtly reinforced that message by indicating he wouldn’t hire openly gay people for his administration.”
McCain Slurs Included Illegitimate Children, Homosexuality And A Drug-Addict Wife.
Among the rumors circulated against McCain in 2000 in South Carolina was that his adopted Bangladeshi daughter was actually black, that McCain was both gay and cheated on his wife, and that his wife Cindy was a drug addict.”
Bush Campaign Used Code Words to Question McCain’s Temper.
“A smear campaign of the ugliest sort is now coursing through the contest for the presidency in 2000. Using the code word “temper,” a group of Senate Republicans, and at least some outriders of the George W. Bush campaign, are spreading the word that John McCain is unstable. The subtext, also suggested in this whispering campaign, is that he returned from 5 1/2 years as a POW in North Vietnam with a loose screw. And it is bruited about that he shouldn’t be entrusted with nuclear weapons.”
Bush Supporters Questioned McCain’s Sanity.
“Some of George W. Bush’s supporters have questioned Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s fitness for the White House, suggesting that his five years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam drove him insane at the time.”
Bush Supporters Spread Racist Rumors About McCain’s Daughter.
Bush supporters in South Carolina made race-baiting phone calls saying that McCain had a “black child.” The McCains’ daughter, Bridget, was adopted from Mother Teresa’s orphanage in Bangladesh. In August 2000, columnist Maureen Dowd wrote that the McCains “are still seething about Bush supporters in South Carolina spreading word of their dark-skinned adopted daughter.”
Rove Suggests Former POW McCain Committed Treason and Fathered Child With Black Prostitute.
In 2000, McCain operatives in SC accused Rove of spreading rumors against McCain, such as “suggestions that McCain had committed treason while a prisoner of war, and had fathered a child by a black prostitute,” according to the New Yorker.
After Rove Denied Role In McCain Whisper Campaign, Reporters Concluded He Was Behind It.
A December 1999 Dallas Morning News linked Rove to a series of campaign dirty tricks, including his College Republican efforts, allegedly starting a whisper campaign about Ann Richard being too gay-friendly, spreading stories about Jim Hightower’s involvement in a kickback scheme and leaking the educational history of Lena Guerrero. The article also outlined current dirty tricks and whisper campaigns against McCain in South Carolina, including that “McCain may be unstable as a result of being tortured while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.” (DMN, 12/2/99) After the article was published, Rove blasted Slater in the Manchester, NH airport, “nose to nose” according to one witness, with Rove claiming Slater had “harmed his reputation,” Slater later noted. But according to one witness, “What was interesting then is that everyone on the campaign charter concluded that Rove was responsible for rumors about McCain.”
Rove Was In Close Touch With McConnell, McCain-Feingold’s Chief Opponent.
Senior White House adviser Karl Rove was in close contact with Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) during McConnell’s effort to fight the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Bill in the U.S. Senate. According to Newsweek, though Rove and Bush have publicly kept their distance from McConnell on the issue, “sources tell Newsweek that Rove is, in fact, in close touch with McConnell as GOP experts study the bill for hidden land mines.”
Bush Campaign Accused of Using Push Polls Against McCain.
College of Charleston student Suzette Latsko said she received a telephone call from a woman who identified herself as an employee of Voter/Consumer Research, and that the caller misrepresented McCain’s positions and asked if Latsko knew McCain had been reprimanded for interfering with federal regulators in the savings and loan scandal. Voter/Consumer Research is listed as a polling contractor on Bush’s Federal Election Commission filings; the Bush campaign has paid Voter/Consumer Research $93,000 through December 31, 1999. Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer denied the call was a push poll, but said it was important that the Republican Party remember McCain’s role in the S&L crisis.
Bush Campaign Acknowledged Making Phone Calls.
Tucker Eskew, Bush’s South Carolina spokesman, acknowledged the Bush campaign made such calls, but claimed they were not “push polls.” Eskew added, “Show me a baseless comment in those questions.”
Bush Used Fringe Veterans Group to Attack McCain as “Manchurian Candidate.”
“In the case of Ted Sampley, the same guy who did Bush’s dirty work in going after Sen. John McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries is doing the job against Kerry this year. Sampley dared compare McCain, who spent five years as a Vietnam POW, with ‘the Manchurian Candidate.’”
Sampley Called McCain a “Coward” and a Traitor.
“Sampley… accused McCain of being a weak-minded coward who had escaped death by collaborating with the enemy. Sampley claimed that McCain had first been compromised by the Vietnamese, then recruited by the Soviets.”
Of course, the Freepers will deny that any of this actually took place, the poor saps.
How many elections do the democrats have to lose before we figure it out that we need someone who can get down in the mud and be just as conniving as the repukes? I know democrats are nicer and like nicer politics, but those lies they spout off so naturally just play into the fears of the American people. People out there are STUPID and they buy this crap. I watched CNN the other day where they were interviewing Tenn. residents who all thought Obama was a muslim! They ARE that stupid.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080128/banks
Dirty Tricks, South Carolina and John McCain
Eight years ago this month, John McCain took the New Hampshire primary and was favored to win in South Carolina. Had he succeeded, he would likely have thwarted the presidential aspirations of George W. Bush and become the Republican nominee. But Bush strategist Karl Rove came to the rescue with a vicious smear tactic.
Rove invented a uniquely injurious fiction for his operatives to circulate via a phony poll. Voters were asked, “Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain…if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?” This was no random slur. McCain was at the time campaigning with his dark-skinned daughter, Bridget, adopted from Bangladesh.
It worked. Owing largely to the Rove-orchestrated whispering campaign, Bush prevailed in South Carolina and secured the Republican nomination. The rest is history–specifically the tragic and blighted history of our young century. It worked in another way as well. Too shaken to defend himself, McCain emerged from the bruising episode less maverick reformer and more Manchurian candidate.
The former crusader against the Republican establishment has since turned into a Bush-hugging, business-as-usual politician who has backed down from many positions that set him apart from conventional conservatives. Before, McCain supported the separation of church and state; now he wants a Christian in the White House. The confederate flag, which he once considered an offensive symbol, no longer troubles him. And he has come to believe that tax cuts are a good idea.
I don’t want to say that McCain sold his soul to the devil, since I believe that religious metaphors have no place in politics. But consider this: shortly after losing the 2000 election, McCain told an interviewer that there must be “a special place in hell” reserved for the rumormongers.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Rove-to-McCain-Your-illegitmate-black-child-is-okay-now
Rove OK with the child now …
But PMom they will listen to what they’ve chosen to hear. He is also BLACK. gasp! Will that be a deciding factor for some? I think so, probably BOTH ways. I don’t think anyone could change some people’s fears. Look at some posters here. They’ve had the opportunity to see all sides of most everything, but have chosen not to let anything deter them.
Obama is refuting each claim. Better yet, he is doing it while remaining above the fray. He doesn’t leave the nastiness unchallenged but he doesn’t bow down to that level either.
Time for viet vets/pow’s against mccain to put out an ad comparing patty hearst/john mccain. Think that might be spot on.
Good point Phantom. If nothing else say HI to the vets:
http://powwarrior.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/the-measure-of-the-man-why-john-mccain-doesnt-measure-up/
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/feb/13/anti-mccain-forces-rally-on-web/
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_hacker_2.htm
Ben
You squeel the loudest when gang-bang supporting rap stars support Obama, and I mention that fact.
You squeel the most when I mention the fact that Louis Farrakhan supports Obama.
You NEVER want Obama to be held responsible for HIS supporters —
But, hypocritically, you want Bush to be entirely responsible for every Bush supporter.
I have said, repeatedly, that Bush did not authorize, did not know about, and did not employ anyone who brought up this adoption smear, about McCain.
Nothing that you have ever posted refutes that fact.
Mccain would come unglued. Without the I’m not an expert, but I’ve stayed at the Hanoi Hilton, he doesn’t have a whole lot.
That’s why they’re called ‘whisper campaigns’.
The Republican way is to start with a lie. If that doesn’t work you lie again. And as usual, when the second lie doesn’t work you start a rumor, then you deny you had anything to do with it and threaten to fire anyone that is working for you if they had anything to do with it. And when it turns out to come from your office you start a new lie. And the process starts all over again….
The Willie Horton ads were true. (And the subject was first brought up by Al Gore)?
The Swift Boat ads were true, and very effective.
On this point, I will say that I was far more disturbed by Kerry’s behavior, when he came home from Vietnam.
Kerry decided to run, dishonestly, as a “war hero” and not mention his anti-war activities.
If Kerry had been honest about his conflicted Vietnam history, he might have won!
The truth is what voters want.
Sometimes? Sometimes the truth is negative.
Paul – did I say Bush did it? Read it again:
bth
Posted August 4, 2008 at 2:16 pm | Permalink
While such mud-slinging IS, in fact, usually successful it seems to me that he is starting it too early. This sort of garbage is usually more effective shortly before election day. Sort of like the anti-McCain ‘push polls’ in South carolina in 2000.
Bush’s name isn’t even mentioned!
I don’t know what you find so negative? The only one I have seen is the one where the Obama ad accuses McCain of negative ads. I believe the comparison of Obama to Britney Spears and Paris Hilton has a lot to do with the way that the MSM are treating him. It is really not saying that Obama is like Britney and Paris, it is saying that he is being pumped up like a rock star more than a politician.
I for one, want to hear about where the candidates stand on certain issues that are of importance to the people of this country. I don’t really care what the media thinks so much as what the politicians are promising.
If the MSM isn’t careful, they will destroy Obama’s chance. They really blew it overseas. The MSM may hate our country and think they can continue to put us down but they don’t realize that we know they are putting each and everyone one of us down.
We have had to put up with the MSM doing that for quite sometime now. What they learned, I hope, is that they may get away with it but there is no way a candidate running for President is going to get away with it. We do not want someone running our country who does not like us.
And if you think that is negative ad campaigning, then you must have forgotten about 2000 and 2004. Not to mention, the constant hammering on President Bush for the past 8 years. If you can’t take it then don’t dish it out.
What a fellow Nam vet says about McCain:
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_hacker_2.htm
“John McCain is being hailed by the press as a “genuine war hero.” But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?
Or is his “war hero” status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?
None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as “boilerplate” and “part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnamera) POWs.”
I saw a mccain town hall meeting given last week. He mentioned his turning down release in a diatribe responding to a question about the Hopi/Navaho incident, the diatribe lasted about 4 or 5 minutes, and ended with his departing without taking further questions.
The guy’s slick.
McVain at Sturgis: how Presidential. I expect he’ll be invited to judge the wet T-shirt contest.
I see lyin’-ass Franklin still defends the lyin’-ass Swiftboaters. If YOU weren’t on John Kerry’s boat, Franklin, you have nothing to say.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.htm
John McCain:Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief
The spoiled son of military privilege got a free ride throughout his military career despite repeated instances of sex scandals and screw-ups . . .
John Sidney McCain III entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland in 1954. Young McCain wanted to become an admiral. He planned to be the “first son and grandson of four star admirals” to achieve such a distinction. But that was not to be. McCain III possessed none of the innate character and discipline traits that helped mold his father and grandfather into great military leaders.
In 1979, while attending a military reception in Hawaii, McCain met and fell in love with Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his junior, who was the daughter of James W. Hensley, a wealthy Anheuser-Busch distributor from Phoenix, Arizona. McCain filed for and obtained an uncontested divorce from his wife in Florida on April 2, 1980 and promptly married Cindy on May 17, 1980.
He resigned from the Navy in 1981 and went to work for his father-in-law in Phoenix; where he used the opportunity to make powerful and wealthy friends in Arizona including banker Charles Keating and Duke Tully, the editor-in-chief of the Arizona Republic. Keating was later convicted of fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and Tully was disgraced for concocting a phony military record of combat in Korea and Vietnam including medals for heroism.
CF
How many ads did the Swift Boat Vets run, against Kerry?
How many of those ads were about Kerry’s time in Vietnam?
One of those showed Kerry taking his own movie camera with him, true.
However, most of the ads were about Kerry tossing his medals, Kerry hanging around with Jane Fonda, Kerry meeting with the enemy, and Kerry’s other bad decisions, when he came home from Vietnam.
None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours.
When one compares this with Bob Dole ridiculing John Kerry’s 3 purple hearts, the contrast is impressive.
But he did, at least, go into combat so, hell, let him have the “war hero” thing–it didn’t help George HW Bush or Bob Dole.
Ben
Rezco is real, and a bit more recent, then this old “Keating 5″ stuff.
You know Ben, I made some negative comments about McCain, way back in the primary.
You were very angry with me, for those comments. I told you, at the time, that you would be McCain’s worst critic, in the General Election, should McCain get the nomination.
I was right, wasn’t I???
All of the feeling surrounding this election is history repeating itself. The optimism surrounding the Obama campaign is deja vu of the excitement of the Kennedy election of 1960. And McCain looks and sounds remarkably like Tricky Dick, to the extent that he’d no doubt end up resigning in disgrace amid numerous scandals too, should he get elected!
Benedict Arnold saw combat.
Tim McVey saw combat.
Lee Harvey Oswald had a military record.
Look, I will give Kerry credit for going to Vietnam, even if he did so for politically calculated reasons. The man took his own video camera with him! When Kerry learned that being anti-war would help him, politically, more than being pro war —
Kerry went anti-war.
Then, when the Presidential election rolled around?
Kerry was a “war hero” again!
Kerry went anti-war.
Then, when the Presidential election rolled around?
Kerry was a “war hero” again!
And ran numerous TV ads that mentioned both.
But thanks for impugning the patriotism of the thousands of anti-war vets in this country.
McBush = McSame = McWar = John McCain.
This election is a referendum on the abysmal policies and lack of leadership of the Republican party.
The economy alone favors Obama by a wide margin.
People need to get used to saying “President Obama”!
A DIRECT quote from Obama:
“Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame,” says Barack Obama. “I’ve already had an hour and a half. I mean, I’m so overexposed, I’m making Paris Hilton look like a recluse.”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motley/2008/08/04/first-person-compare-sen-obama-paris-hilton-was-not-sen-mccain
Franklin would condemn any Vet who bought and used camera equipment while overseas.
What a numbskull.
Rage
You are a Wrong!
Kerry never admitted his anti-war past.
Kerry never wanted to talk about his involvement with Jane Fonda or any other anti-war activists.
Kerry NEVER ran any commercials bragging about his anti-Vietnam War leadership.
kansasnative
John Kerry admitted that the video he took was for political purposes.
How many Vietnam Vets took video equipment with them?
Where are all the Christian bloggers who routinely claim “persecution”?
John McCain (the nonChristian) runs ads attacking born again Christian Obama’s religion and not a peep out of them.
Hypocrites.
Kerry met with the enemy, while still in the Naval Reserves.
Kerry was disciplined, for violating UCMJ rules.
This is why Kerry never released his complete service record!
Kerry later had his discharge upgraded, by the Jimmy Carter Amnesty program!
Kerry was NEVER honest about any of these things.
If Kerry had told the truth? He might have won!
None. “Video ” equipment was nonexistant but plenty of people had 8 mill and Super 8 cameras.
” I told you, at the time, that you would be McCain’s worst critic, in the General Election, should McCain get the nomination.
I was right, wasn’t I???”
I doubt that I am his WORST critic. After all; all I am doing is linking what his fellow vets say about him. But you are correct Paul – I am willing to dish back what is being dished out. And I have a feeling that HHVT in 2008 will approach what SBVT did in 2004.
My father took a lot of pictures in WW2. I have many of the still snapshots. I wish I had his old film from the Pacific that I saw as a kid.
I love how they talk about what we did to Bush but forget everything that the cons did to Clinton during his 8 years. YOU created this monster. Not us.
And the same person who says they don’t care about the MSM, also listens to Rush. Don’t pretend you care about the issues, you care about what Rush tells you to care about.
Kerry never admitted his anti-war past.
Sheesh, file this one under, “who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”
The most commonly-run ad included “and he came home determined to end that war.”
That would be this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wpG2Xesbk&feature=related
A less commonly-used one even showed him getting arrested! :)
You’re a scream, Paul!
Dug up this interesting tidbit. I hadn’t heard it before, but coincidentally suggested to a relative a few weeks ago, that mccain probably was rewarded with women while held captive.
“http://www.tothepointnews.com/content/view/3068/2/
What worries a small group of GOP Senators and Congressmen even more is a deep and dark skeletal secret in McCain’s glorified past to which they are privy, and which the Clintons will use to blackmail him. They have been having discussions with a Russian whom we’ll call “T” for Translator. T’s father was the Soviet military intelligence officer who ran the “Hanoi Hilton” prison holding captured Americans during the Vietnam War. One of those prisoners was John McCain…
McCain was kept at the Hanoi Hilton from December 1969 until his release, along with all the remaining POWs, in March of 1973. During this time, T translated all the Vietnamese interrogators’ notes and reports regarding John McCain.
According to T, they reveal that McCain had made an “accommodation” with his captors, and in exchange, T’s father saw that he was provided with an apartment in Hanoi and the services of two prostitutes. Upon returning to his prison cell, he would say he had been held in solitary confinement. That may be why so many of his fellow prisoners said later they saw so little of him at Hoa Loa.
The notes and reports written in Vietnamese were sent to Moscow, where T was a now a college student, for T’s translation into Russian, then placed into GRU archives. That’s where they stayed until 1991. Late that year, as the Soviet Union was collapsing, the CIA and the GRU made a deal for a document swap.
All of what it involved, T doesn’t know. What T’s father, by now retired but still with substantial contacts within the GRU, did learn (and thus T learned) was that the swap included all of T’s translations.
In other words, the CIA has in its possession the notes and reports of John McCain’s interrogators at the Hanoi Hilton, in both the original Vietnamese and translated Russian, showing collaboration with his Communist captors…
The small group of Senators and Congressmen who have been briefed by T have been unable to confirm with the CIA any details of its document swap with the GRU beyond an admission that such a swap “may have happened.” They are very nervous about pursuing the matter any further.
The Clintons are not nervous. They are utterly ruthless, and have buddies at Langley all too happy to help them.
This must have been out there for a while since it’s being credited to the Clintons. McCain needs to release all his military records, and pow records!
Good for the Dems. is Good for the Republicans.
When’s the medial going to question mccain about his assertions in his books? When are they going to demand documentation about those assertions? No More Free Ride Mccain Express!
He’s taken the gloves off, the Media and the Dems. need to do the same.
If a person has that in his history and runs for POTUS in our world of today, wouldn’t that be indicative of a much larger problem? Could any person be that egocentric, that out of touch with reality? No one in their right mind could think something like that could stay hidden! Why you’d have to be like computer illiterate in a world where computers are today’s pencil!
It has to be a nasty rumor without basis.
Maybe Gw had the goods on Mccain, and drove him out of the campaign. Poppa did have close ties to the cia.
If Obama attacked McCain the way McCain and his goons attack Obama then Obama would constantly bring up the 130 fellow shipmen McCain killed with his childish antics.
Check this out:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/telnaes/telnaes_main.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
And a reminder that the McCain camp has made many brilliant campaign decisions so far:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/telnaes/telnaes07252008.html
Phantom – I suspect that the HHVT people will be doing that.
I think this is all showing that McCain’s tactics are, in fact, stupid. In today’s political world of ‘independent’ groups he has opened himself up for a great deal of ‘turnabout’ and I suspect he will receive it. The great thing for Obama is that he can ’stay above the fray’ as this all unfolds.
We had the CIA spreading the rumor that Obama was Muslim; now it seems that even worse might be in store for McCain.
“determined to end that war” — you think THAT is full and fair disclosure?
No mention of going to Paris, to meet with our Communist enemy?
No mention of the “phoney soldiers” who had never even been to Vietnam, that Kerry had “testify” about “war crimes”??
No mention of the fact that Kerry never released his military records?
No mention of the fact that the Jimmy Carter Administration was, mysteriously, involved in the John Kerry discharge several years after Vietnam, and several years after Kerry should have been out of the service, already?
No, Kerry hid his past from the voters.
Phantom
Kerry never released his records.
Maggot
Show us one tiny piece of evidence that the accident, that you speak of, was in any way McCains fault, would you please?
Franklin, If Kerry is running for anything it is reelection as a Senator from Massachusetts. Is that where you’re registered to vote?
linda
You realize that you liberals like to try to rewrite history.
I will not let that happen.
John Kerry was not honest with the American people.
That is the reason why Kerry lost.
Bring up the past, and conservatives will remind you of your past mistakes.
Nominating John Kerry, in the first place, was a terrible mistake.
Many smart Democrats realize that point.
Here ya go Paul.
http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm
It’s helps to have an admiral in the family to prevent an investigation into the matter.
And here’s a video about the story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuiyXQKw3I
Total dead, 134.
But then, I didn’t bring up the past. I posted only to the now. I do recognize why you would prefer to talk about the past, even when you’re wrong.
I never thought Kerry was the best chance for the Democratic Party, kinda like most Republicans feel this year about McCain. The “terrible mistake” this election season doesn’t bother me one bit. Some terrible mistakes must be easier for me to accept.
Mccain can stay above it while the 501’s do the dirty work, just like bush.
All they need is a rich dem. to fund them.
Maggot
You are a lying piece of trash.
McCain was not even in the plane where the problem occured.
Also, the problem was caused by a power surge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
Libs
Yes, Obama has a shot.
But, honestly, it is not looking good for Obama.
On the 1st of August, in every single Presidential election year, the Democrat has always had a huge lead.
Where is Obama’s huge lead?
Sounds like mccain is a walking calamity:
If I read the article right he was involved in two fires, unless they we’re talking about his dad.
http://www.rense.com/general69/whwysu.htm
I liked the part where mccain was helio’d off while the fire was still raging. RHIP!
When she starts doing that, John McCain will stop being effective for you. It is called John McCain. On South Carolina, you’ll see the CIA total.
John mccain won’t be effective even if she doesn’t stop doing that!
” both because of his party label and his personality — to vote for Obama, but who still have trouble imagining him as America’s commander in chief.””
In other words, blindly following the other sheep.
But the problem is, middle of the roaders and independents are starting to use their brains.
They are asking – what does “change” mean?
Charisma versus experience.
Far, far left versus liberal conservative.
A radical with a black power religious indoctrination versus a known religion.
A young and unpredictable flip-flopping man,
versus decades of voting records.
Mclame is not my hero, but he is trying to wake people up.
Sometimes you have to get them out of their theatre seats and into the sunlight.
Otherwise the movie is hypnotic.
“Maggot
You are a lying piece of trash.
McCain was not even in the plane where the problem occured.
Also, the problem was caused by a power surge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire”
You’re right, I made up the entire event. After all, you link to a site which said McCain was in one of the planes that caused the disaster so who am I to believe? Should I believe me, who said McCain was involved, or should I believe you, who said McCain was involved? Tough choice.
McCain has the record of five plane crashes so clearly he was a competent pilot, and he finished near the bottom of his class so it’s clear he had the knowledge to be a competent pilot. He spent a total of 20 hours in combat in a war where soldiers typically spend thousands of hours in combat but being the son of an admiral means you get medals just for showing up. Even when he was a POW he was given special treatment by his captors. His “torture” amounted to being slapped around a bit. Yet, John Kerry, who spent a lot more time in war and was awarded numerous medals was just an opportunist.
No doubt if the Obama team wanted to swiftboat McCain they’d have plenty of ammo. Keep in mind in 2000 the voters thought Bush would make a better president than McCain, and we all see how well of a president Bush is.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm
Mccain’s carrying around a lot of baggage, too much to go on the offensive. If he wants to play Rovian politics, I’m sure the left will be able to accommodate him.
I used to feel sorry for the N.G. commander that got saddled with bush jr., that is before reading up on Mccain.
Dang! You bitch about Bush being in the airforce and never flying then you bitch about McCain being in the air force and flying five planes into the drink.
What do you want? A draft dodger?
McCain was an officer in the Navy AmWay.
whatever. songs the same.
“What do you want? A draft dodger?”
McCain would have saved a lot more lives if he dodged the draft. Heck, you changed my mind. If Bush hadn’t ran off to the National Guard he may have served in Vietnam causing destruction on his coke binges.
Imagine how many more planes McCain could have crashed if he served more than 20 combat hours.
Franklin
Posted August 4, 2008 at 3:51 pm | Permalink
Ben
I told you, at the time, that you would be McCain’s worst critic, in the General Election, should McCain get the nomination.
Hey Paul – you still think that I am McCain’s worst critic? Take a look – I ain’t alone. In fact, I can’t hold a candle to his fellow VietNam veterans!
I have a feeling we ain’t seen nothing yet!
As a Veteran, I know Maggotpunk your focus on 20 hours is meaningless. A military career and the years of drill, training, and practice are rarely eclipsed by the time actually spent in combat. Present war(S) being the exception.
Training for hours to prepare for a few moments of chaos, is the normal theme.
It’s not the time behind the trigger that makes one a veteran nor a measure of military experience or leadership.
That takes years.
Kerry had months, 4 I believe in combat patrol, and you all just couldn’t believe he saw more action than most vets (remf’s) in Nam.
Wonder how much of the ships’ captain’s time was spent in getting mccain airlifted to another ship, while his was on fire?
Mcsame/bush both priveleged brats, neither qualified to be cic.
maggot
the missle that misfired did not come from McCains airplane.
You are a liar.
When your pops a 4 star admiral, who can say for sure what happened?
The missle misfired due to a electrical power surge.
The missle that misfired did not come off of McCains airplane.
By the way, when McCain came home, McCain did not trash other Veterans, the way Kerry did.
Also, whatever McCain might or might not have done, I think the voters will say, “Your sins are forgiven” for his penance: the Hanoi Hilton!
Paul – I ask again: do you still claim that I am McCain’s “WORST” critic?
:)
“Dang! You bitch about Bush being in the airforce and never flying then you bitch about McCain being in the air force and flying five planes into the drink.
What do you want? A draft dodger?”
Are those the only false choices?
How about someone who actually served and DIDNT put five airplanes in the drink?
I’m not sure putting airplanes in the drink is a quality we want in our CIC.
Woof.
But then, bush already HAS the country in the drink. Mcsame has no history of pulling things OUT of the drink, does he?
Franklin said: (re: John Kerry)
“The man took his own video camera with him!”
NO, he didnt!! We didnt have VCR’s then… He might have taken a 8mm movie camera… but NOT a Video Camera…
And, the question is: So What?? I went to college with lots of guys who had 8mm movies from their years in “country” Also many had regular cameras as well….
So, what is the big deal that John Kerry, another U. S. Soldier, took a camera with him to Nam???
That has to be one of the craziest arguments ever attempted against a candidate!!
“Franklin” on John Sidney McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) –
“…when McCain came home, McCain did not trash other Veterans….”
Instead, McC*nt trashed his crippled first wife and their three kids so he could boink the 24-year-old Arizona Beer Queen.
What a class act.
What do you want? A draft dodger?
AW, been there, done that. I had my issues with the results (and BTW expect similar issues this time, though I hope it won’t include losing the Congress to the Repubs for 12 years).
But there is no doubt in my mind that second Bush term would have been much worse than what we got. And it didn’t have jackshit to do with whether someone knew how to walk point.
P.S. Yeah, I got your point. But I do wonder what McCain did that day on the Forrester.
Paul, as the story explains the actions by McCain caused the electrical malfunction resulting in a misfire. Cutting out half the facts doesn’t really support your case, it just helps mine.
Your hero McCain killed 134 shipman while he hid for safety and many died putting out the fire he started.
Franklin said: (re: John Kerry)
“The man took his own video camera with him!”
And my father took his cameras with him to the Pacific in WW2. SO WHAT!
I had my camera confiscated upon entering a secure compound. :)
Interesting. I know that at least some of the film I saw had been sensitive – especially ship-to-ship refueling. And the night film of air attacks on the fleet were especially chilling. Not sure why dad’s cameras were not confiscated – perhaps his clearance level was higher. Or perhaps in WW2 the concern was less?
Well, this was one of those super duper intel compounds, I should have known better, but had just woken up when I got called in for a briefing.
One of those compounds where you swap ID badges three times, sign your name, initial that you signed and signed that you initialed.
After all of that, you were still escorted by armed guard. :)
His was a war zone – the Pacific Ocean. The pictures and film are something!
My point, however, is that many people take cameras with them – that does not have the sinister meaning all the Kerry-haters think.