As leaders of key health committees in the Legislature, Sen. Susan Wagle (in photo), R-Wichita, and Rep. Brenda Landwehr, R-Wichita, surely are more knowledgeable than they appeared in an Eagle news article Thursday. Wagle complained that too many people on public health assistance could afford to take responsibility for their care. Her evidence: patients she saw who had cell phones or talked about watching cable TV. Landwehr complained about “a generation who believes that welfare is a job.”
Most of the estimated 47 million Americans who don’t have health insurance are working full time, and most of the people who receive public health assistance had to meet income qualifications. The fact that some of them have cell phones doesn’t mean they could afford health insurance premiums, which in 2007 averaged more than $12,000 a year for a family.
369 Comments
Good ol’ out of touch Wagle. When people are working a couple of jobs and going to school they aren’t around home all the time to sit by a land line to make a phone call. No doubt Wagle’s health insurance paid for all her cancer care. She probably believes someone making $12,000 a year should have no problem paying for her sort of care while uninsured.
It is true that people spend foolishly instead of getting basics.
I met this guy a few months ago who had used his vision card at Dillion’s. His car was like a 2006 and he had golf clubs in the back of his SUV.
We were sort of talking about sports while loading groceries and he mentioned something about ESPN 3 or something like that and the pay per view channel that has the special sports.
So yeah, there are some that abuse the system and could probably afford health care on their own, if they didn’t drive around in a high dollar SUV and spend a lot on cable TV.
Among those 47 million Americans without health insurance are people changing jobs, and young people who are healthy and short on money. People who just don’t feel health insurance represents a good value.
So what I’m saying here is that the 47 million number is an exaggeration.
If you are getting gifts from an estate, or are making money in the underground economy, that money is probably not reported. Are alimony or child support payments counted: I doubt it, but who knows. Some people have property but no income. I wonder if they are reported.
The “R” for Republican also works for Reptile.
Public health care should be a basic right.
….and the 50 inch LCD HDTV from Rent-a-Center….
…and paying for one cart full of grocerys with the food stamp card and paying for the other cart full of beer, soda, cigaretts and junk food with cash…..
Blow Jay
The R stands for Responsibility.
Why don’t you try some on yourself.
Yep yep, forgot about Rent-a-Center. That Rent-A-Center trucks passes by my house more times than I can count, daily.
What size TV were you watching Heckler?
When your kid was chasing a horse and getting kicked in the head?
#
BlueJay
Posted August 15, 2008 at 7:27 am | Permalink
What size TV were you watching Heckler?
When your kid was chasing a horse and getting kicked in the head?
——————
Junior, don’t ever whine about anything again said about your family when you makes statements like that.
I might ask you the same as you asked me Heckler.
MY kid never got kicked in the head by a horse he was chasing.
Of course, I can’t afford horses.
What are you doing commenting here “Regular”?
You’ve been on the government largesse HOW many years?
Hmmmm…. Could be the guy with the 2006 car, and the golf clubs in the back, was picking up groceries for an elderly person, who cannot get to a store…. I have done that numerous times… And I know of others who do that on a regular basis…
SO, I am not sure if you can take the guy using the Vision card as a sure fire example of anything, other than a purchaser of groceries at Dillons….
Is it legal for someone to use another persons vision card?
Don’t know Chas, but it’s probably illegal to loan out your vision card.
Unless, this guy had a power of attorney or some release, I doubt that was the case.
Most of the food was snack type food and what one would eat if they are a junk food junkie. Most likely not something an elderly person would include in their diet.
Heard a story bout a guy working in a shelter. He helped serve the evening meal. There was a line well before the serving hour. Several folks complained about the food. Several asked for special things. When the server said they didn’t have that, the individual said “Sure you do. In the pantry. Third shelf on the right.”
These folks ate, then got back in line and ate again. A bus stopped down the block and several folks got off and ran for the shelter. They had worked labor all day and were hungry. There wasn’t enough food left. The server took those men out for pizza.
Moral is, if you are giving something away for free, there will be abuse. There are those that truly need, unfortunately they are outnumbered by abusers.
“Moral is, if you are giving something away for free, there will be abuse. There are those that truly need, unfortunately they are outnumbered by abusers.” — Sol
A statement of opinion based on ideology. Back it up.
Back it up.
Did you not read above?
I have posted many personal stories on here as well. As soon as you show me how to link to a witnessed act in the past, I would be happy to provide it for you.
So, I say that entitlement programs are abused. You say that they are not?
Why don’t you check and see who swung first there solie?
based on ideology
Since when are witnessed acts an ideology?
who swung first
I don’t see where anyone brought up a personal tragedy junior.
When you go after an incident that could have ended the life of someone’s kid….
You are lower than whale shit. You are the feces of humanity.
“Since when are witnessed acts an ideology?”
Maybe when they come second hand?
“Heard a story bout a guy working in a shelter. “
So, junior, defender of the perpetual government hand out, you are telling me that the entitlement programs in the US are not abused?
Are you admitting solie that you base your opinions on heresay? Somebody tells you a story and it becomes a basis for your opinion?
Can’t stay and play.
When did Susan or Brenda ever work for a living?
It’s not like being a con flack in Kansas is working. That’s in the water.
Good news for Susie? If she ever gets kicked out of politics?
A little makeup, lose the sensible shoes and drab clothes.
She might pass as a working girl.
Dumbass,
I have posted many personal stories on here as well. As soon as you show me how to link to a witnessed act in the past, I would be happy to provide it for you.
Blue Job
Hell B.J. my first TV was an old console with a rotary tuner. It was a freebie, someone was about to throw it in the trash. I think it was at least 15 years old when I got it. I used it for over ten years.
I knew how to live within my means and I didnt go wasting money I didnt have on the latest electronic gadget just cause everyone else had one.
Oh and the boys doing great, thanks for asking. Started Kindergarten yesterday. Rumor has it he dropped trou and made his mark. Just rumor hopefully, no official confirmation. Hard headed little shiait, can’t tell him anything.
Glad to hear your boy is doing well Heck.
“So, I say that entitlement programs are abused. You say that they are not?” — Sol
No, you said: “Moral is, if you are giving something away for free, there will be abuse. There are those that truly need, unfortunately they are outnumbered by abusers.”
Back it up; of course the programs are abused. How much is the question. Can you prove abusers outnumber the needy?
“I knew how to live within my means and I didnt go wasting money I didnt have on the latest electronic gadget just cause everyone else had one.” — heckler.
You mean you didn’t have a transistor radio? How sad.
Oh so you don’t think people feel welfare is a job? Need a raise, have a baby? Need even more money? Just keep having them. Heck we even end up paying for the day care.
beber
“You mean you didn’t have a transistor radio? How sad”
Man, I’m almost old enough to say I remember when having one of those was the height of coolness.
http://www.nysscpa.org/home/2008/808/2week/article18.htm
GAO Tallies Corporations Not Paying Income Tax
WASHINGTON — At least 23 percent of large U.S. corporations don’t pay federal income taxes in any given year, according to a report given to the Wall Street Journal by Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.
The study covers 1.3 million corporations of all sizes, most of them small, with a collective $2.5 trillion in sales. It includes foreign corporations that do business in the United States, the New York Times reported. Among foreign corporations, a slightly higher percentage, 68 percent, did not pay taxes during the period covered—compared with 66 percent for United States corporations.
The GAO also found that in a given year at least 60 percent of all U.S. corporations studied—which also includes many smaller companies—reported no federal income-tax liability during the period studied, 1998 to 2005, the Journal reported.
The study did not identify the corporations or analyze why they had paid no taxes, the Times reported. It also did not say whether they had been operating properly within the tax code or illegally evading it.
– NYSSCPA.org News Staff
Posted on 8/13/08
I bought a transistor radio saving up my coins from mowing lawns, delivering newspapers, back in the 1960s. I thought it was cool as well.
BTW, never do a hill jump on your bike with your transistor radio attached to the handle bars. Cause when you stop momentum at the end of the jump, you stop and the radio…
“The study covers 1.3 million corporations of all sizes, most of them small, with a collective $2.5 trillion in sales. It includes foreign corporations that do business in the United States, the New York Times reported. Among foreign corporations, a slightly higher percentage, 68 percent, did not pay taxes during the period covered—compared with 66 percent for United States corporations”
Which is why in almost all other countries, corporations are not only taxed on incomes, but have to pay a “value added” tax, for each increment in value in the manufacturing process. Since they don’t have to pay this tax on exported goods, those goods are often cheaper than goods here?
Can you prove abusers outnumber the needy?
Through personal experience, sure. If the government could prove abuse, do you tink there would still be abuse?
That is a pretty weak question to ask.
Does Wagle’s tongue always waggle?
Annie and Beber you need to know the rest of that story. A large number of small corporations pay no income taxes because they are S Corps and their owners pay taxes on the corporation on their personal tax return.
This was reported as part of that story but of course that wouldn’t have promoted your ‘evil corporation’ image so it wasn’t included.
D must stand for dunce. Thinking people will do their research and post the whole story. Demos will post only those parts that advance their agenda.
“At least 23 percent of large U.S. corporations don’t pay federal income taxes in any given year, according to a report given to the Wall Street Journal by Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.”
The article says LARGE corporations in the first line… Never mentions those S Corps., which wouldnt be listed under companies on the Corporate Tax Roll anyway…
IIRC
Funny, I just finished a letter to the editor regarding this issue, only to find it as the first thread of the day..I’m glad others are outraged by her moronic statements.
BTW, it is OK to let someone by groceries for you using your vision card, many people are homebound and physically getting to the store is out of the question for them.
The thing that chapps my butt is that a person can buy cigarettes with the cash portion of the Vision card…that’s crazy considering that Kansas spends 900 million a year treating smoking related illnesses, 300 million of that for Medicaid recipients.
Regular, I know of many folks who do shopping for elderly, or disabled people and use the individual’s Vision Card on a regular basis… I suppose it might be a problem if they were asked for ID, but I have not personally seen that happen….
A relative of mine recently stated “Corporations don’t pay taxes”, I replied “that’s why the deficit is so high”.
“Can you prove abusers outnumber the needy?”
Hell, it’s hard enough for the disabled to get help, I seriously doubt the abusers outnumber those who have to jump through all the hoops to prove they qualify. I rarely see it in my practice and I’m out there everyday.
So one cannot exercise now or drive a decent car if one food stamps? Yes, one CAN use someone else’s card, if they are authorized users.
Considering that I do grocery shopping for 3 elderly people, I never thought of it as the person behind me is questioning my cell phone as I’m swiping their cards.
I guess I’ll get a hat or something that says “I’m taking care of old people”, perhaps they’ll get it.
I love how the cons always try to make it as if someone is ripping off the system. Or deserve what they are getting.
Thanks Mary!!
The WORST part of this- is that as lawmakers, they get to hear the stories of their constituents probably greater than any of us do….and they STILL put this crap out there. Shame is right…they should be ashamed.
Mary, as a smoker, I find it a bit disturbing that Vision Cash can be used for smokes, too.. I also heard that it can be used for booze, too…. Tsk Tsk
“The study covers 1.3 million corporations of all sizes, most of them small, with a collective $2.5 trillion in sales.”
————
From Bebers post. Chass please stop exposing your ignorance. It’s too early in the morning for that.
MOST OF THEM SMALL….
Ummmm Beber’s quote doesnt seem to cover any S Corps… Just as I said earlier… And, IIRC, an S Corp wouldnt be listed on the Corporate Tax Roll…. Unless thats changed in recent years….
Watched a kid buy 2 gallons of grapefruit juice with his Bridge card (food stamp card up here). Then he bought a gallon of Bombay Gin with a hundred dollar bill. The clerk stopped and looked at the kid. He replied “What? I’m a college student. I get it.”
Again, while there are people out there that need assistance, there are far too many that ride the system. Through personal experience, I could fill half this page with those that abuse. Damn shame.
BTW, Granny…. the only ignorance shown here, is YOU calling ME ignorant…. It is still YOU who has the reading problem… Not me!!
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink
Ummmm Beber’s quote doesnt seem to cover any S Corps… Just as I said earlier… And, IIRC, an S Corp wouldnt be listed on the Corporate Tax Roll…. Unless thats changed in recent years….
—————–
Chass why don’t you prove your idiotic statement. A corporation is a corporation is a corporation. No matter what type.
As usual like your stupid statement about the many forms of Christianity yesterday. Still waiting for your explanation of that one.
Again, while there are people out there that need assistance, there are far too many that ride the system. Through personal experience, I could fill half this page with those that abuse. Damn shame.
——
I could as well. Just spend a few minutes at a grocery store in Garden City, Dodge City, or Liberal, and you will see the abuse pouring over like a waterfall.
Chass show me in Beber post where it says anything about the ‘tax roll’. I’m waiting.
OKOB…. IF an S Corp pays taxes through the individual tax return, RATHER than through the Corporate tax structure, Then that S Corp wont show up on a Corporate Tax Roll… And it isnt Beber’s post per se… Go back and READ IT…. It comes from a CPA society publication…. taken from the NYT and WSJ…. Do you possibly comprehend that???
McCain has to go with what he’s got, and negative is all there is. What would an ad promoting his positives look like? We haven’t heard anywhere, or from anybody, anything about a McCain positive.
Politics has been negative and nasty forever but when Rove entered the scene negative took on a new nastiness — Swiftboaters, McCain’s black love child — that many voters finally recognized. And many voters really want more civility along with more substance. Add the dismal bushco to this recognition of Rovian politics, and negative doesn’t play as well.
We shall see! Soon!
Sorry for posting on the wrong thread!
“We shall see! Soon!” — Ms. Inks.
That human nature doesn’t change, and the lowest common denominator is comprised of more than 50 percent of the electorate? We shall see. That’s true.
ANTI — Unless you personally KNOW the individual’s situation that is using the Vision Card, your last post is pure BS!!
Did some checking and it appears that it is illegal to use someone’s vision card without being a legal gardian or legal care given of that person.
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink
ANTI — Unless you personally KNOW the individual’s situation that is using the Vision Card, your last post is pure BS!!
———
I have lived in that area for 30 years Chas. I have seen it for myself many times, as well as have many admitted the abuse to me. You know not what you speak of Lab Monkey.
Chas, your ignorance is shining brightly today.
So, you are saying you know these abusers PERSONALLY, ANTI???
What did I say Chas?
Here, I’ll help you out….”have many admitted the abuse to me”
Then, instead of FLAMING at me, go back and read what I posted…. It is really quite clear….
Chass just for the really challenged in our audience.
Corporations are registered. This is ‘the list’ referenced. It isn’t the tax roll. Got it. Then the number of corporations who paid fed taxes was pulled. This is part of the public record. Having previously been part of an S corp. I know what of I speak.
Obviously you know nothing about corporations and don’t know anyone who would even think of defrauding the gov via the welfare rolls. What a sheltered existence you live. Put a cap on your ignorance is shining bright this morning.
Anti. I personally saw abuse overseas with the countries that we are supposed to be helping. I gave an example that I had found out about from one of my bosses while in the Army. I think I used the phrase “DOD Mercedes making the Welfare Cadilac look like a bicycle spoke.
But it seems that some of the Republican folks thought that I was making it up. I understand how it feels to be considered a liar because you are speaking from your own experience.
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 10:14 am | Permalink
Then, instead of FLAMING at me, go back and read what I posted…. It is really quite clear….
——-
Yeah, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
Granny, as usual, you missed my point entirely…. IIRC, your S Corps wouldnt be included in the corporations listed in the NYSSCPA article linked above…
And you call ME ignorant??? Yea, right….
Pi** on it Granny!! It is impossible to have any kind of sensible conversation with your DAMNED bullying tactics….
I think I used the phrase “DOD Mercedes making the Welfare Cadilac look like a bicycle spoke.
—–
I don’t doubt it.
Chass why wouldn’t my registered corporation be listed in this report?
ANTI —- Your original comment was:
“I could as well. Just spend a few minutes at a grocery store in Garden City, Dodge City, or Liberal, and you will see the abuse pouring over like a waterfall.”
You say NOTHING there about KNOWING the abusers… You added that part AFTER I made my comment….
IF you know the abusers… Then MY comment is not relevant…. That is all you needed to say…. Flaming me was not necessary…. unless of course, your fuse is normally that short….
And Chass in order to have a sensible conversation with someone we both need to have a brain and you sure missed the train when those were handed out.
You are a laughable character Chas….priceless!
Well Chas, That’s not necessarily true. I see your point. But, of course, there are instances when an Scorp will pay taxes.
Now, whether the SCorp (Technically having 100 or less shareholders, leaving out some minute details) is considered a large corporation is a matter of debate.
OK Granny…. You think you know so DAMNED MUCH…. Show us all what I said that was NOT accurate…. SHOW IT… or else apoplogize, and then SHUT UP!!!!
Obama talked about garnishing the wages of such irresponsible people.
I do not remember the Eagle saying anything about Obama, when Obama admitted that some people are irresponsible, and will have to be forced to meet their obligations.
Chas you remind me of some of the feed yard cowboys I use to work with, ain’t got the sense God gave a goose…..at least they could ride the piss out of a horse…
Chass why would I spend my time proving YOUR ignorant statement is true when I know it isn’t? You are a laugh a minute and not worth the time it takes to read your posts.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121686880772780155.html?mod=djemITP
Senate Probes Increase
In Offshore Accounts
By MARTIN VAUGHAN
See Corrections & Amplifications below
July 24, 2008; Page A12
WASHINGTON — An investigation of a Cayman Islands office building suspected of housing tax-shelter businesses has led the Senate’s top tax-writer to call for greater powers to fight tax evasion in offshore accounts.
A report by the Government Accountability Office set to be released Thursday by the Senate Finance Committee finds that the number of U.S. entities reporting that they control Caymans bank accounts jumped to 7,937 last year, up from 2,677 in 2002. In addition, 732 companies that trade on U.S. stock exchanges are incorporated in the Caymans, according to the report.
[Max Baucus]
The report found that as many as 9,000 U.S.-related entities are registered at a single Grand Cayman address, the Ugland House. That is the number of entities that listed a U.S. billing address, although not all are U.S.-controlled. In some cases the address belongs to a U.S. bank or brokerage house that is acting on behalf of a foreign entity.
As of March 2008, Ugland House was home to 18,857 business tenants. That was up from 12,748 reported tenants in August 2004.
Sen. Max Baucus (D., Mont.), who is running a Thursday hearing of the Senate Finance Committee on the issue, called the findings “hugely troubling.”
“When you see a huge spike in tenancy in a place like the Ugland House, where no one’s really sure what’s going on, decent oversight demands that you ask more questions,” Mr. Baucus said. “If we strengthen transparency for U.S. holdings in places like the Caymans, it will be a lot easier for the IRS to tell who’s not playing by the rules.”
Officials of Maples & Calder, a law firm that resides in Ugland House and which maintains records for all of the firms, told the GAO that only about 5% of the entities it serves are wholly U.S. owned. The firm declined to comment for this article.
[Charles Grassley]
Sen. Baucus and Sen. Charles Grassley (R., La.) the senior Republican on the panel, asked the GAO to try to ascertain how many U.S. taxpayers had set up Caymans entities, and what kind of business they did there.
Mr. Baucus wants to give the Internal Revenue Service more time and more ability to enforce existing requirements that U.S. taxpayers disclose their interest in foreign financial accounts.
Currently, that disclosure is made to the Treasury Department for all accounts with assets exceeding $10,000. The system helps Treasury’s financial-crimes unit combat problems such as money laundering and terrorist financing, in addition to tax evasion. Failure to disclose can result in some of the harshest penalties imposed by the federal government, up to 50% of the assets in the account.
Mr. Baucus will propose that such forms be filed along with individual and corporate tax returns, in addition to being filed to Treasury. He also wants to clarify that the IRS has authority to assess and collect penalties for failure to disclose, according to an aide.
Thanks VET… Granny was the one who said the S Corp would pay taxes on the individual’s personal return… I was attempting to go along with her…. and attempting to point out that the figures given by the GAO would not apply necessarily to the S Corps that SHE referred to….
Granny is correct, most of the time. I can’t really speculate very accurately, but if I had to assume, I would say a good 90% of them would only pay taxes through the individual’s K-1s. California state is an exception, in that they tax, don’t quote me on it, but I think it is 2%.
Since when did Chas become an expert on corporate income tax? :D
okobserver
Posted August 15, 2008 at 10:29 am | Permalink
Chass why would I spend my time proving YOUR ignorant statement is true when I know it isn’t? You are a laugh a minute and not worth the time it takes to read your posts.
============================================
Look you stupid Wench…. YOU make a claim here that I am lying…. YOU PROVE IT!!!
I was only making the point that the S Corps that YOU referenced, would not be in the GAO list of corporations NOT paying their taxes…. NOW…. WENCH…. PROVE to me that what I said is inaccurate!!
And YOU granny… YOU make me nauseated!!! And you are about a half a bubble off of being a female canine in heat!!!
Vet as a person whose business was S for years before becoming C I know they always pay on their personal tax returns in Kansas. Chass is an idiot and you shouldn’t encourage him.
Listed Corps are all on the list of American corporations. Of these you would have no way of knowing what was declared on the owners tax return because those are private. This report would not be accurate in it’s reporting. They actually said this themselves in acknowledging the large number of small corps.
When did Regular become an expert on what I know or dont know??? Hmmmm???? Regular has enough problems figuring out what IT knows… LOL
Chass where did you prove anything but your own ignorance. Read man. You have a real comprehension problem and probably shouldn’t be allowed to post unattended.
In my view, the issue I see with someone like Landwehr is not the corporate welfare.
I just wish that she would show half as much rightous indignation about (what I called) the “DOD Mercedes” as she does about what she might call the “Welfare Cadilac.”
Reg I think those sheepskins he ordered from his Mad magazine might have led him to think he has a brain.
Chas is a Satan Minister, the Satinister.
That’s his knew name.
Satinister Chas
Ah, the tangled webs Chas weaves….These are the days of our lives…..
er
knew = new
I think they are correct, just a little off in delivering the message.
I see it all the time. People who are “poor” in this country can have up to 2 cars, 4 TV’s, a cell phone, cable TV, the internet, etc…etc…etc…
If people wouldn’t spend their money on anything besides food, energy, home, and health care, all of a sudden health care is affordable.
I wonder how many of those people go out to eat instead of shopping for food and cooking?
It is all about priorities.
You ignorant Wench, Granny —-
“Of these you would have no way of knowing what was declared on the owners tax return because those are private.”
THAT IS JUST EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!!! AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY OF TELLING ME I AM IGNORANT??? WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE!!
Vet you are right. I think that the statements made were ill advised and Wagle and Landwehr would like them back.
But to think that there is no welfare abuse is akin to burying your head in the sand.
I do not encourage anyone Observer. And you and I both know that an 1120S can have taxable income for certain types of Cap Gains.
Now, whether or not Chas’ point remains would be based on the report. As I said “technically” an Scorp has 100 or fewer shareholders. There are nuances, I know. But the argument as to whether an Scorp is a large corporation is still an argument. I won’t take sides on that argument. You know my view on this thread.
“I wonder how many of those people go out to eat instead of shopping for food and cooking?”
Now THAT is a trend I have observed… That one, as well as the purchase of “junk food” that isnt terribly healthy for many kids…
BJ
Actually, this is what you believe:
“Sitting on my ass is my right” —
You want all of your needs provided to you, so that YOU can sit on your ass.
No Chass that is not what you have been saying. I am not one of your dim friends that pretend you make sense. You are by far one of the dumbest men I have ever seen. But I am through with you today so just go on with your shouting, caps, question marks and exclamation points. That only impresses the left. The rest of us on this blog talk in real words.
Nathan, that being said… It is most difficult for LOTS of families to afford health insurance to the tune of $12,000 per year as mentioned above…. In fact, many would be doing good to MAKE $12,000 per year in many cases… And maybe $18,000 in a good year…. :-)
Where is the $12,000 a year coming from? I am working with a broker now. BCBS for 4 for abot $375 per month.
Chas, what church do you preach at? I would honestly like to attend to see how you express yourself during a sermon. I wonder if your typing is taken other than how you mean to come across.
I should tell you some of my stories from Toys for Tots.
People with their brand new Lincoln Navigators with rims and systems complaining that they only get one bike for thier 3 kids.
???? EXCUSE ME????
People in the food line talking on their cell phone who act upset that I am interrupting their conversation by asking them what kinds of can goods they would like for me to put in their cart.
The cart I am pushing for them in my Dress Blues mind you, as I excort them through the process to show our good will.
HOWEVER, there are those that actually break your heart who are so gracious and humble about what we do and what they are getting.
SOL — I dont know where the $12,000 figure came from… It was posted somewhere upthread… I merely used it as a reference… Even so, $4500 per year is fairly pricey, if family income is only $18,000 per year….
Chas,
I am buying what I can afford. There are many other programs that are cheaper. The $12,000 looks to me like a cheap parlor trick.
Anyone on her paying anywhere near $12,000 a year?
WASHINGTON — In an Aug. 12 story about corporate income taxes, The Associated Press reported erroneously that large corporations accounted for 25 percent of the U.S. corporations that did not pay federal income taxes in 2005. The report by the Government Accountability Office actually said 25 percent of large U.S. corporations had no federal tax liability that year.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
——————-
Vet this is what started the story. As you can see it was made in error. S corps show no liability on their federal filings not because they owe no tax but because they owe the tax on their personal returns. Therefore 25% of corps show no tax liability.
Not really sure of the point you were making. Just speaking from past experience.
Annie Moose had an interesting article but it didn’t go far enough. The entire Kennedy trust with all related family businesses is in Haiti. If they really go after all violators I will be happy. Just don’t try to blame the ‘big corporations’ for all of the corruption. Or try to blame those evil repubs for the corruption.
I have a self-insured plan through our Pension Boards… It runs $430/month for a single… $550/month Family…. Our plan uses Highmark BCBS as an administrator…
annie
You are an idiot.
Health insurance is an income tax deduction.
So are most other employee benefits.
Some corporations don’t pay taxes, because they are not earning a profit.
Some corporations don’t pay taxes because they get enough deductions, for employee benefits, that they don’t have to pay taxes.
Some corporations, like the one John Edwards set up, were done so that Edwards can avoid paying FICA taxes, and pay himself “dividends” instead.
beber
You are as dumb as Annie
The fact is, the corporate income tax, in the United States, is one of the highest corporate income tax rates in the World!
Outsourcing, at the hands of DEMOCRATS!
You really want to see some great examples of welfare abuse and irresponsibility? Work a year or two for one of the rent-to-own stores. Jeesh!
A brother-in-law worked for Colortyme for over ten years. Traveled to about 6 different stores around Kansas and Arkansaw. The stories he told…..
What you Lefties can’t seem to get through your heads is that guys like me on the Right arent against helping people who NEED help. We’re not against supporting those who due to mental or physical disability CANT do for themselves.
What we’re against is having our tax dollars used as a vote buying resource by Social Democrats who don’t care what kind of scum gets that money as long as it cements a position of power for them.
Thank you Franklin for a sensible post. I sometimes wonder how some of the posters here survive in the real world.
“The fact that some of them have cell phones doesn’t mean they could afford health insurance premiums, which in 2007 averaged more than $12,000 a year for a family.”
By Phillip Brownlee
=========================================
That’s where the figure came from… I have no clue where Phillip gets his figure…. It looked high to me too!!
My employer pays 100% of my health insurance.
Our company pays 100% of the employees plan. We then let them add a family if they have one at a small premium.
That is the difference Anti in working for a living.
It looked high to me too!!
Cheap parlor trick.
Might be from an Obama/Chicago type hospital. They charge 350% more to uninsured than insured for the exact same care. All while Michelle sat on their board.
Kinda makes you wonder what Obama will do to nationalised health care.
Out for the weekend.
Safty Brief:
Avoid unprotected sex.
Avoid power tools.
Avoid small farm animals.
Avoid unprotected sex with small farm animals and power tools.
DisMISSED !!!!!
Franklin: I can’t argue against the idea that corporate tax is too high. But when you say Democrat. Well, that begs a question. During the first 6 years of Dubya’s presidency, he was in the white house and congress had a filibuster proof majority. Why weren’t the corporate tax rates fixed then?
Why would Dubya’s version of tax breaks be some stupid accelerated Depreciation and an increase in 179 expenses. Both of which can sting you later on because the basis of the asset is lowered for future depreciation?
Blame your republicans for not really being conservative when they had power.
safety
“The entire Kennedy trust with all related family businesses is in Haiti.”
Would a “trust” come under the heading of a Large Corporation??? Just asking….
Vet the accelerated depreciation was a real boon to several small companies with an aging fleet of trucks and vans. Most tax changes are only fixed for short periods of time. This is one way for the majority party to enact changes that will be fillabuster proof at least for a while.
Politics is ugly. Both parties.
“What we’re against is having our tax dollars used as a vote buying resource by Social Democrats who don’t care what kind of scum gets that money as long as it cements a position of power for them.”
Heckler- I’m going to stick my naive neck out and say I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing with what you say; it seems self-evident. I don’t think anyone I’ve seen on any of these various threads would either.
I’m amazed daily by the constant over-simplifications being presented by all sides as fact.
Clearly I’m guilty of seeing more than I can understand!
Ummm Sol?? If the charges refer to prices charged to the UNinsured, I am having a problem figuring out how the health insurance premium referenced by Phillip at $12,000 per year would apply to the UNinsured???
Chas
You “PROVE” to all of us, on a regular basis, that you are not employed by any Church:
“Look you stupid Wench…. YOU make a claim here that I am lying…. YOU PROVE IT!!!”
You are a jerk, Chas, and you do not, in the least, resemble a single pastor, or minister, of any Church.
Chas
Read the Beatitudes, you fraud!:
“Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 10:40 am | Permalink
And YOU granny… YOU make me nauseated!!! And you are about a half a bubble off of being a female canine in heat!!!”
Chass I said I wouldn’t do this but just for you. Our Corporation is in my husbands ‘trust’. We aren’t registered off shore though so pay taxes in the USA.
The Kennedys hold all of their business enterprises in a ‘trust’ homed in Haiti. They don’t pay US taxes on any income.
Franklin posts;
“You are a jerk, Chas, and you do not, in the least, resemble a single pastor, or minister, of any Church.”
Franklin….DITTO!!!
Franklin…. YOU are such a gross excuse for a liar, that it just knows no boundaries!!
Franklin again proves he is a LIAR!!! And I am sick and tired of your personal attacks!!
I’m still wondering why the Wichita Eagle would have a copy of Chas’s professional Minister papers.
Chas never answered that one.
http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2008/08/15/Health_insurance_premiums_have_doubled/UPI-15451218813715/
WASHINGTON, Aug. 15 (UPI) — While the price of gas gets the headlines, the price of health insurance premiums has gone up by 100 percent since 1996, U.S. health officials said.
A report by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, said that from 1996 to 2006 nationwide, the average premium cost of a family insurance plan rose from $4,954 to $11,381 a year, while the average cost for a single premium went from $1,992 to $4,118.
Employers paid for most of the increases; their share rose from $3,679 to $8,491 a year for family coverage and from $1,650 to $3,330 a year for single coverage.
However, employees saw their share rise significantly, as well — from $1,275 to $2,890 a year for family coverage, and from $342 to $788 a year for single coverage.
Geez, Granny… all I asked was if a “trust” is considered to be a corporation…
:roll:
Yes Annie as a business owner I can say this article is true. The last five years we have had significant raises in premiums. Most were absorbed by the company but some had to be passed on to the employer.
Nationalized medicine will not address this problem.
And Chass that is exactly what I said.
The ONLY way that a typical family of 4 would pay $12,000 a year in health premiums would be:
1.) It is an individual, not a group, policy.
2.) The deductable is ridiculously small, like $500.00 or less.
I will say that health insurance for the 55 to 65 year old group will be more expenseive, due to age and health risks, but this thread opened with a bogus “family” quote.
I am an insurance agent (among many other licenses and designations). I specialize in the “senior market” but often must cover a spouse who is LESS than age 65.
I am nearly 50, myself. My premium, on myself, alone, is $97.00 a month with a $5,000 deductable, backed up with an “HSA” account for smaller expenses.
In my opinion, anyone who is paying premiums as high as Phillip quoted is ill informed about the options available.
Get a HIGH deductable plan.
Fund a Health Savings Account or HSA to the MAXIMUM level that you can.
If you are healthy for a couple of years, you will ALWAYS Have enough in the HSA to fund your deductable, should anyone in your family get really sick.
And, if everyone remains healthy? You have a pretty nice retirement fund, in addition to anything else you are doing.
You know, I can only think of a very few times when I’ve noticed someone in front of me in the grocery line paying for groceries with Food Stamps. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Vision Card. But then, I’m not standing right up somebody’s butt-cheeks looking over their shoulder to see how they pay for groceries. Some of you conservatives are very nosey people and need to learn to MYOB.
Good advise Franklin. Many companies have given that option to their employees.
LVETT
Good question.
A partial response?
Europe, in particular, has had many conservative, anti-tax politicians elected in the last few years.
Many of the corporate tax rates, in Europe, were only recently reduced.
— Putting the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage.
Regular
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:21 am | Permalink
I’m still wondering why the Wichita Eagle would have a copy of Chas’s professional Minister papers.
Chas never answered that one.
===========================================
Answer — AGAIN: To protect myself from LIARS like Franklin, and others on this Blog… Can you remember that this time??
Annie
You prove your ignorance, once again:
—–
“annie_moose
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:22 am | Permalink
http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2008/08/15/Health_insurance_premiums_have_doubled/UPI-15451218813715/
WASHINGTON, Aug. 15 (UPI) — While the price of gas gets the headlines, the price of health insurance premiums has gone up by 100 percent since 1996, U.S. health officials said.”
——
What year is it, Annie?
2008?
That would mean 2008 – 1996 = 12 years.
If you use the “rule of 72″ and divide 12 into 72, that would say that you would have to have a 6% return, over that time, for any investment to double.
It also means that, by your example, health premiums went up by only 6%, during that period of time.
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/rule72.htm
Granted, 6% inflation of cost, over a 12 year period, is a LITTLE high, but —
How much has the price of bread or milk or gasoline or postage stamps gone up, over that same period?
Chas
Corporate stock can be owned by a trust.
XXX
It is OUR tax money.
It IS OUR business.
Franklin, how can you say Annie proves ignorance??? She linked to a UPI article dated TODAY…. Looks like you should argue with the article, instead of flaming ad hominems against Annie…. :roll:
Nationalized medicine will not address this problem.
#
okobserver
Why not IIRC the state currently funds 65%+ of all heathcare already if a 30% saving were to be realized as I understand the proposal all could be insured for about the same price. I don’t have time to dig up the link right now.
Most large corporations would love to get away from healthcare.
I wouldn’t even consider working for a rent-to-own company. They prey on the poor. The reason you see the trucks drive by so much, is that they are most likely going out to pick up their wares.
Franklin
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:42 am | Permalink
XXX
It is OUR tax money.
It IS OUR business.
It also means that you’re sticking your nose into a lot of places it doesn’t belong. My point is, I can’t tell what kind of card someone else is using without getting right up in their business. If you were standing behind me in line and I noticed you looking to see how I was paying, you would be in my personal space and you and I would have an immeadiate problem.
I’m a big believer in personal responsibility, though I believe in the real deal, not the ideological redefinition some would employ. It has zero to do with whether healthcare should be regarded as a basic right, a part of the social contract.
If you had a chronic illness or any of a number of health problems not covered by insurance, you’d figure out pretty quickly that that the “personal “responsibility” mantra is nothing but a euphemism for FU.
Right Franklin. It’s MY tax money and I am sick of it going to these other countries who abuse it. STOP THAT NOW or SHUT YOUR MOUTH.
I agree Phantom — not to mention that their prices are FAR above normal retail pricing…
XXX
It is OUR tax money.
It IS OUR business.
Billions of our tax dollars go to no-bid contracts for shit that’s never built, and this asshole is concerned that a desperately poor person might be buying Cheese Doodles.
Franklin
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:40 am | Permalink
Chas
Corporate stock can be owned by a trust.
===========================================
Thats nice… interesting even…. I KNOW THAT!! However, that wasnt my question…. I asked, simply, if a “Trust” would be considered to be a Corporation…. I did not ask if corporate stock can be owned by a trust…. Geez….
“Many of the corporate tax rates, in Europe, were only recently reduced.” not-very-Frank (land).
You simply refuse to recognize how the value-added taxes in Europe figure into the picture.
XXX
“If you were standing behind me in line and I noticed you looking to see how I was paying, you would be in my personal space and you and I would have an immeadiate problem.”
2 things- The Card is very distinctive.
All the stores now have the scanner right out there on a pedestal in front of the customer. First one I ever saw I spotted from 2 shopping carts away.
Drop the faux indignation.
beber
The value added tax goes right into the cost of the product. The consumer pays it, not the corporation. What a hideous tax, raises the price of some goods by as much as 80%.
Annie when you start giving something for nothing then you run into the ledgend of the ‘worker bee’ that BJ hates.
Why would I work when many who don’t work have the same advantages that I do. What would be the incentive you would give me to continue to work when my tax dollars allow some to set at home and do nothing.
My son works with a Canadian in Virginia. They work for one of our major chip makers. He says that Canada is a great place to retire to or live if you don’t want to work. He is planning to go back when he is retirement age to cash in on the socialized medicine the gov offers. He does plan to keep Micron insurance when he retires so he can cross over the border if he needs to.
Meanwhile he isn’t paying the 47% tax bill the other workers in Canada now pay. Do you see the future of our nation here?
Phantom
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:49 am | Permalink
I wouldn’t even consider working for a rent-to-own company. They prey on the poor.
—————–
Actually Phantom and Chass they prey on those with no credit. Either because they have trashed it or are illegal and can’t get it. The RTOs take a real risk that the furniture will take an unexpected trip because they aren’t dealing with the ’salt of the earth’ customers. They deal with those who can’t go anywhere else.
It is just a business that found a niche in our economy. No more no less.
Chass once again you didn’t get it. The business is owned and operated by the trust executors. It doesn’t own stock it owns the business.
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:57 am | Permalink
XXX
It is OUR tax money.
It IS OUR business.
Billions of our tax dollars go to no-bid contracts for shit that’s never built, and this asshole is concerned that a desperately poor person might be buying Cheese Doodles.
_________________________________________________
Way to go, Rage!
Actually Phantom and Chass they prey on those with no credit. Either because they have trashed it or are illegal and can’t get it.
In other words, primarily the poor, as poor people, for obvious reasons to thinking people, are the ones most likely to end up with no credit or poor credit.
Exactly Rage. If you bring it up, they say, “you have a point” it sounds alot like “we might just look into that one day”
You can’t force one form of waste and abuse to be removed without forcing the other form of waste and abuse to be removed. So, as I told Franklin, STOP BOTH OR SHUT UP.
Libertarian folks, the Republicans are no longer conservative.
Heckler
Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
XXX
2 things- The Card is very distinctive.
All the stores now have the scanner right out there on a pedestal in front of the customer. First one I ever saw I spotted from 2 shopping carts away.
Drop the faux indignation.
I’ll say it again. You cons need to mind your own damn business. You don’t know what the circumstances are. Somebody bought groceries with food stamps and loaded them into a new SUV.
Maybe they don’t have a car and borrowed mom’s SUV.
Gasp! Somebody who used food stamps had a cell phone!
Maybe it was a trac phone. Maybe it was borrowed.
I’d think you cons would be tired all the time, what with all that jumping to conclusions.
I still say you need to mind your own business. You’re not the neighborhood political officer or the thought police.
LVet
Are you capable of staying on topic?
I think not. Yah, we all drift a bit.
However, you will not allow a Republican to make a conservative statement, without chimming in that Republicans are not “perfect” by Libertarian or LLVET rules.
Also, I notice that you tend to dog on Republicans more than Democrats, on this Blog.
No, I will not shut up. Not for you or anyone else.
Great, Franklin. So when are you going to spearhead the movement for removing government waste abroad.?
I see that YOU decide what waste is acceptable “Imperfect” and what is not.
That is why I “dog” on people like you.
Paul, if you’re so concerned about being on-topic, the subject is “47 million uninsured.” That has nothing with vision cards.
XXX
You see someone living in a $5000 house with a 72 inch projection TV in it, driving a $40,000 vehicle with $10,000 worth of accesories added. And using food stamps. There’s not very many logical conclusions to jump to, and neither one is a stretch.
LLVET
I can not be all things to all people.
I can not fight every battle, all the time, for ever person.
I will decide what issuea are important to me, and I will act accordingly.
In the meantime, you are FREE to go to Hell, or not! that is how it works.
Sorry, but of all the things that offend me, people like YOU, who try to tell me what I should and should not be worried about, seem to be the most tyrannical of all types.
You claim to be “Libertarian” but your posts, on this Blog, are far from “live and let live” —
I am out of tin foil. However, I will put on my aluminum foil hat and say that you might be Liberal “mole” with no other purpose here, except to foment division within the Republican Party.
You CLAIM to be Libertarian, but, instead of any “atta boys” or back slaps, when a Republican says something the least bit Libertarian, you rip into us for not being “Libertarian enough”??
As stated before, go to Hell, or don’t — your choice.
And, leave me the same choices, “faux Libertarian” — let me choose on my own what to bitch about.
Or are you really a tyrant, wishing control over my mind and my key board?
Granny your argument on that one is with Franklin… HE said a trust can own stock… Again, that is not what I asked….
I asked — ONE more time — CAN A TRUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE A CORPORATION???
That shouldnt be a difficult question for all of you self-proclaimed “experts”….
Rage
IT DOES TO!
Government benefits to the poor are government benefits to the poor.
The type of abuse the happens is the same, no matter the program involved.
Also, ALL benefits for the poor actually subsidize illegal behavior, to some extent.
I would like to see a study done, showing how many drug busts, for DEALERS, involve people who are on vision cards, or other forms of welfare.
I would like to see a study done, for everyone arrested for prostitution, showing how many are on welfare, of some type.
Illegal, unreported income does not disqualify anyone.
The government programs and give aways make the illegal activity even more rewarding, since the criminal does not have to worry about basic needs, and is free to take even bigger, criminal risks.
Testy Testy Franklin.
You don’t like being told how full of Sh(% you are, so now I am some mole from the democrats? Why don’t you just admit that the Republican Party is not what it claimed?
I can’t force you to shut up. Telling you to SHUT UP is rhetorical. If your so dense that you can’t see when someone is showing you how full of SH&^ you are, well what can I say?
NITWIT.
Heckler
Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
XXX
You see someone living in a $5000 house with a 72 inch projection TV in it, driving a $40,000 vehicle with $10,000 worth of accesories added. And using food stamps. There’s not very many logical conclusions to jump to, and neither one is a stretch.
_________________________________________________
Heckler,
If that were so, you’d have an issue. But let’s be honest here. How many people do YOU PERSONALLY know who live in a $5,000 house with a 72 inch TV that drive $50,000 worth of car and use food stamps? Please don’t quote Rush and let’s not go for “I know somwone who knows someone”.
A corporation can be named as the “Trustee”
“Bank and Trust” means just that.
The “trust” itself is a can take many forms, as provided by the Trust Document.
Franklin, Chas, you are talking about “forms of ownership” here, and your questions are simplistic at best.
A trust can own stock, or partnership interests, or anything else, for that matter.
A trustee can be a corporation.
A corporated Trustee can purchase corporate stock on behalf of a Trust.
Where is the Corporation domiciled? I think that question gets to the heart of some of the issues, not the ownership questions you keep asking.
Should have said “Frankly, Chas, you are talking about forms of ownership” above
You’re wrong sunflower, it is ok to have a noncaregiver listed to use the card on your behalf. Just like at the bank, you can put someone on your account. It does not need to be a relative.
As far as the smokes, heck, most of that money goes right back to the state anyway.
I wonder how come nobody complains when people who are poor are asked to give the Church 10%…do Church take vision cards as well? I mean, as long as we’re criticising others for their lifestyle, I certainly can criticise for that, right?
It is a contraction, you’re is the proper spelling.
I know I make lots of spelling errors, but I do get that one correct.
And, LLVET, you MIGHT be a true Libertarian, in that no Libertarian, I have ever met, has a clue about how to win with actual elections and actual legislation.
Libertarians tend to shoot everyone, making no alliances and making no friends.
And– winning no battles.
I just don’t get why you shoot at Republicans all the time, and not Democrats.
I think its funny that everyone thinks that those getting assistance are using all this money for luxuries. When I was on assistance when I was in college the first time- back when I could get assistance to go to college….*they ended that program, thanks republicans*…I lived in a house with no working stove and a hole in the kitchen roof. Seeing daylight through the roof.
And if you think I was buying bs, I can promise you that I wasn’t. Of course, cigs were only 89 cents a pack back then too. My entire week of smoking cost less than 10 bucks.
My apologies Chass you were right on the stock issue. And as to your question, no a trust is not a corporation nor can it be one. It can however contain within it’s assets a corporation.
As for the ‘poor’ and RTO. If you are to poor to buy your own food and I know many people are. I have no problem with helping the needy – You are too poor to aford the exorbiant prices at a RTO.
A 54″ tv isn’t a necessity. A stereo isn’t a necessity.
Because Franklin, the republicans are the ones who need to pull their head out. The Democrats are just democrats. At least they haven’t strayed from the concept of personal liberties.
I have had many disagreeements with Chas, Linda and many others. But when I bring my views up to them, We agree to disagree. When idiots like you and Regular get on here, you call us stupid for disagreeing.
Yep, even though you had no working stove and a hole in the roof, you STILL wasted $10/week on smokes.
Point proven.
The US is the only country in the world where the “poor” own cars, big screen TVs, cell phones, eat out regularly….
There are some openings at Hawker Beechcraft right now. Great healthcare benefits:
Employee Only = $$56.81 (+5.27 dental, +1.91 vision)
Employee+1 = $97.77 (+11.55 dental, +1.91 vision)
Employee and Dependents = $151.51 (+14.55 dental, +1.91 vision
A trust is not a corporation, Chas, nor should trusts in general be considered as one. Yes, there are “business trusts” that act similarly to corporations, but by and large, these to the extent they still exist, are relics from the days before laws governing the formation and operation of corporations were as widespread as they are today. Hence, the quaint name of the “anti-trust” laws. When originally enacted, the business combines that were felt to deserve regulation due to the monopoly power the same possessed were often viewed as “trusts”, while legally corporations.
As commonly thought of today, a trust is a legal entity which holds title to property, real and personal (tangible or intangible). The beneficiaries of the trust do not own the assets of the trust legally; rather, the beneficiaries have a beneficial interest therein. A corporation holds title to assets, as does a trust; but the stockholders own the stock, making them the legal owners of the corporation, and indirectly, the assets thereof.
For income tax purposes, a trust is taxed differently from a corporation (for this purpose, I’m using a C corporation as an example). The trust is allowed a deduction in determining its taxable income for its distributions of “distributable net income” (DNI) to the beneficiaries. A corporation, which pays dividends to its stockholders (the closest analogy I can draw) does not receive a deduction for dividends paid.
A “S Corporation” generally does not pay income taxes at the corporate level; rather, it passes the income throught to the shareholders which is taxed at the individual rates of the shareholders. Again, no deduction is allowed; and, even if no income is distributed to the shareholders, the shareholders pay income tax on their proportionate share of the income. It may be distributed later as previously taxed income, which is still a dividend, but the shareholders who receive this PTI do not pay additional income taxes thereon. A trust, on the other hand, will pay income taxes on income not distributed to the beneficiaries; usually, under trust accounting rules, the undistributed trust income becomes a part of trust principal, and, if later distributed to the beneficiary, no income tax is paid thereon, as it is no longer income.
The above discussion is very general and not complete in any way. Hopefully, that helps answer your questions, thought.
I didnt think a trust could be a corporation… however, Franklin now seems to claim otherwise… perhaps we need to ask Tolle??
The type of abuse the happens is the same, no matter the program involved.
Looking at it from your hallucinated perspective, that would be correct. In fact, different rules govern the food stamp and medicaid programs.
But if you actually know of such abuse (as oppose to speculating with your usual hateful stereotypes), well. . .why aren’t you calling?
http://www.srskansas.org/hotlines.htm
If Wagle and Landwehr were really serious about abuse, they’d properly fund abuse investigations.
Thanks VT… I guess I am not as ignorant as it has been claimed here today :-)
You know how the right-wing came up with that imaginary straw person, “the Welfare Queeen?”
I’ve got a new one–the Welfare CON.
That describes people like Regular who live on public assistance and condemn other people who live on public assistance.
A good example of a Welfare CON would be John McSame, who draws 58 thousand dollars in “disability” while holding a Senate job and living off his wife’s 100 million dollar fortune.
A trust can have a corporate trustee; a trust may hold corporate stock; that is what Franklin said.
If I may, Franklin, the denomination of a financial institution as a “Bank and Trust” means that the institution may act as a trustee; in other words, it is a corporation which has “trust powers” under the applicable statutes.
No Chass after all of the discussion Franklin didn’t say a trust could be a corporation. Go back and read his post.
Maybe Barnes & Noble has a book called ‘Trust and Corporations for Dummies’. I have read many of the dummy books on subjects I didn’t understand. Try it.
Yeah testicle, because it would have only taken me 5 years to save that ten dollars a week to be able to buy a new stove and fix the hole.
I am of the firm belief that if progra,s are being abused, go after the abusers… but also go after the caseworkers that allow the abuse to happen in the first place… One thing I am pretty sure of… The myth of the welfare cadillac, and other such extravagant expenditures by people on income maintenance and food stamps, is just that…. A MYTH…. I know what those people are able to receive…. And no matter how mnay kids they have, you cant live very high on the hog with that money…. unless the hog is deformed, and has dachsund legs… :roll:
A 54? tv isn’t a necessity. A stereo isn’t a necessity.
So. . .poor people are supposed to sell off all their assets before they can get health insurance?
Do you have any idea how poor you have to be to qualify in the first place?
I swear: You people live in your own little world.
P.S. As a practical matter, I would rather have my taxes keep a poor person healthy then pay the skyrocketing medical costs brought about, in part, by them using the ER as the doctor of last resort.
I’m waiting.
I guess Heckler doesn’t really know many people who live in a $5,000 house with a 72 inch TV that drive $50,000 worth of car and use food stamps.
’m waiting.
Heh, noted and seconded, X. Gotta go now, but I’ll check later.
rage I didn’t realize it was an either or question. I too object to ERs being primary care providors but I don’t think that is what we are discussing here.
Another good example would be George W. Bush who used tax money to build an arena thus making his 800,000 share in the Texas Rangers worth 14 million dollars.
It’s public assistance for the already rich, and President Silver Spoon is a WELFARE CON.
Cheese Doodles?
I can get Cheese Doodles with my Vision card?
#
CapnAmerica
Posted August 15, 2008 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
You know how the right-wing came up with that imaginary straw person, “the Welfare Queeen?”
I’ve got a new one–the Welfare CON.
That describes people like Regular who live on public assistance and condemn other people who live on public assistance.
A good example of a Welfare CON would be John McSame, who draws 58 thousand dollars in “disability” while holding a Senate job and living off his wife’s 100 million dollar fortune.
—————————
Yeah Crapn, let’s call all retired military as living on Public Assistance. It took me 22 years to earn that.
But you don’t care do you? It’s just so easy to lie about another person.
Capn did you get your info and GWB from the same source that said Rush’s sister said he was gay?
OK
There are lots of corporate trustees.
In fact, I prefer such, in my business.
I don’t have to worry about a “successor Trustee” that way.
Hey, Paul–
What’s the return on 800 grand for five years bringing 14 million?
Hmmm . . .
Whatever it is, it’s a helluva lot better than the Standard & Poors 500 from Jan 2001 to Aug 2008 . . .
LLVET
“STFU” is hardly a way to engage in mature debate.
Telling people what they have to believe in, and have to fight for or against, is also more tyrannical than Libertarian.
Happy to have intelligent debates.
Practice such, and it will be reciprocated.
okobserver
Posted August 15, 2008 at 10:21 am | Permalink
Chass why wouldn’t my registered corporation be listed in this report?
===========================================
Ummmm…. If I follow this correctly, the answer to your question would be because you SAID yours is an S Corp — And that taxes would be paid on your private individual return…
ALSO, as I understand the NYSSCPA article linked way up above, they are dealing with what I understand are C Corps… The GAO wouldnt be listing the S Corps in the same report as they list the C Corps, IF I read the article correctly….
Now, see, I am not calling anybody stupid, or ignorant, or dumb…. That must be left to you Righty tidies…
You do realize sometimes those nice things that the poor have are gifts from richer family members. But no, I realize you’d expect them to sell the one form of entertainment they may have and live as true paupers. Maybe we can ask the elderly to stop taking their medications too.
I know, we can have a committee of people like grm to go around to everyone’s house who is on assistance and make sure that they don’t have anything at all. Except maybe a nice sweater so they can go look for a job.
I seriously don’t know how you all can sit there and complain, because I didn’t even have enough to pay basic bills. I don’t know how poor can afford to buy that stuff at all. Shoot most everything I own is still second hand or gifts.
Regular lies, “It took me 22 years to earn that [my tax funded disability].”
Incorrect.
You happened to have the good fortune to work for an employer (the US military) that doesn’t just throw people to the wolves when they get injured on the job.
The same thing you have is what you want to deny and disparage for others.
That’s why you are a WELFARE CON.
Yes Kansas Trust is the one that handles ours. I don’t think Chas understood the difference betweeen a trustee and a trust.
Chas
You are confused.
A trust is one thing.
A trustee is another thing.
A corporate trustee is common.
The trust has a beneficiary, contingent beneficiaries etc.
The trust has title to certain property. Maybe realestate, maybe corporate stock.
The TRUSTEE decides how to distribute such, to the beneficial owners.
The Trustee CAN and often IS a corporation.
Of course VT
Agreed on the Bank issue.
Also, just a stretch, perhaps, but legal ownership and beneficial ownership differences, that you already brought up, are confusing to the lay person.
When the daughter goes to the Trustee, for help with the grandchild, she says, “I went to the Trust today and asked for such and such” —
As do many people who deal with a family trust of some type.
She, of course, went to see an officer of the corporate Trustee, but who cares?
Let’s see, using Paul’s rule of 72, 72 divided by 5 years means President Privilege would have to make 14.4 percent interest a year to double his 800 grand to 1.6 million.
Except Bush made almost TEN TIMES that over the same period.
Wow. Making big time money off the government sure beats working, don’t it?
XXX
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:01 pm | Permalink
I’m waiting.
I guess Heckler doesn’t really know many people who live in a $5,000 house with a 72 inch TV that drive $50,000 worth of car and use food stamps.
———
Take a cruise through the trailer parks on E. Hwy 50 Garden City…you will find them there.
Franklin… get this straight… I wont say it again…. I am NOT confused… I Am fully aware of the difference between a Trust, and a Trustee….(or Trustes)….
In fact, my grandchildren will be beneficiaries of a Trust set up for them when they each, in turn, reach age 21….
I know precisely how that works….
And thanks to VT, I am now clear that a Trust cannot be a corporatiion…. which is what I thought I remembered….
Now, exactly what is it that you think I am ignorant of??? Huh??
Hey, folks, all this talk about what is a trust and what is a trustee?
It’s as interesting as reading the fine print of my life insurance policy.
The thread described how one of the biggest CONs in the Statehouse blames the poor for not having enough money to buy health insurance.
And all the Blog dittoheads blame the victim too.
OK and VT
I suggest G-Trust, as well.
Banks are, actually, kind of a pain in the rear.
In fact, 23 or 24 years ago, I served a Chair of the Trustees of a fairly small non-profit social services agency…. So, yea, I kinda sorta think I know what I am talking about here…
ODB or “Old Dirty Bastard” of the Wu-Tang Clan was on government assistance even as a wealthy rap artist(?). He was only caught when he invited a film crew to go with him to pick up his benefits. ODB was not a conservative.
Capn I actually asked you for the source of info on GWB. Was it where you found Rush’s new sister who is spreading family secrets (wink, wink)?
Capn
OBAMA SAYS THAT HE WOULD GARNISH THE WAGES OF IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT PURCHASE HEALTH INCURANCE FOR THEIR FAMILIES!
The issue has been answered.
YOUR Nominee agrees with Wagle and Landwehr!
ANTI
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:21 pm | Permalink
XXX
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:01 pm | Permalink
I’m waiting.
I guess Heckler doesn’t really know many people who live in a $5,000 house with a 72 inch TV that drive $50,000 worth of car and use food stamps.
———
Take a cruise through the trailer parks on E. Hwy 50 Garden City…you will find them there.
_________________________________________________
And you know for certian that these folks have 72-inch TVs and use food stamps? How would you know that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Dp1IxHY7I
ODB as a poor victim of society, needing welfare.
ANTI — IIRC, just the ownership of a $50,000 vehicle would automaticlly disqualify a person/family from receiving food stamps, or income maintenance… UNLESS that has changed in the past three or four months..
Why would living in a trailer preclude owning a nice car? I can assure you that living in a mobile home doesn’t require one to be poor.
And you know for certian that these folks have 72-inch TVs and use food stamps? How would you know that?
——
I have worked with them in the past. I know “fo’ certain”
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
ANTI — IIRC, just the ownership of a $50,000 vehicle would automaticlly disqualify a person/family from receiving food stamps, or income maintenance… UNLESS that has changed in the past three or four months..
——
They don’t exactly follow the law to the letter, sparky!
XXX
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
Why would living in a trailer preclude owning a nice car? I can assure you that living in a mobile home doesn’t require one to be poor.
——
It doesn’t. That isn’t the point.
Chas probably the $50,000 car is owned by their corporation and they just get to ‘borrow’ it when they need it.
No assets qualifys you for welfare.
They don’t exactly follow the law to the letter, sparky!
So what exactly are you complaining about?
Ummmm OKOB… that is probably one of the worst attempts at spin that even YOU have ever made…. IF they own a corporation, they for damned sure arent qualified to get any assistance… But do keep trying!!
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:37 pm | Permalink
They don’t exactly follow the law to the letter, sparky!
So what exactly are you complaining about?
——
Wait, what are you complaining about?
XXX
“I guess Heckler doesn’t really know many people who live in a $5,000 house with a 72 inch TV that drive $50,000 worth of car and use food stamps.”
No I do not, for that one I rely on the relative who worked for Colortyme. He may have been LYING, I didnt interogate him on it.
I have seen a woman pay for a cart full of groceries with food stamps. And watched a man following her pay for a cart full of beer, cigarretts, soft drinks, and ding dongs with cash. I witnessed the man, the woman, and 3 kids get into the same car in the parking lot. But one must be carfull about JUMPING to conclusions about stuff like that.
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:38 pm | Permalink
Ummmm OKOB… that is probably one of the worst attempts at spin that even YOU have ever made…. IF they own a corporation, they for damned sure arent qualified to get any assistance… But do keep trying!!
——
Watch the video I posted Chas.
Oh yea, and besides, ANTI is intimating all along that they OWN the $50,000 car… LOL
Chas the corp is owned by the trust. You are one dense poster.
OK, here’s a little test.
You’re behind two ladies at the checkout stand.
One is neat and clean. In her basket she has fresh produce, meat, milk and eggs. In her hand is a shopping list and several coupons.
The other lady is grossly over weight. She has more tatoos than an old sailor’r retirement home. In her shopping basket is four bags of chips, a case of diet Pepsi, five frozen pizzas and a National Enquirer.
Which one pays with her Vision Card?
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:39 pm | Permalink
Oh yea, and besides, ANTI is intimating all along that they OWN the $50,000 car… LOL
——-
?Que?
The Fat-too lady!
Wait, what are you complaining about?
Idiots who use largely imagined complaints of fraud as a thinly-veiled way of attacking the poor in general.
Your turn, sparky.
#
HLP
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:40 pm | Permalink
OK, here’s a little test.
You’re behind two ladies at the checkout stand.
One is neat and clean. In her basket she has fresh produce, meat, milk and eggs. In her hand is a shopping list and several coupons.
The other lady is grossly over weight. She has more tatoos than an old sailor’r retirement home. In her shopping basket is four bags of chips, a case of diet Pepsi, five frozen pizzas and a National Enquirer.
Which one pays with her Vision Card?
————————
What kind of pizza?
All that being said, I will say again…. IF someone is found to be abusing public assistance programs… of ANY kind…. they are in violation of the Law… They AND their caseworkers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law….
But as far as all of this made up BS goes, I have worked around the working poor for muich of my career…. I dont buy 99.6% of what you people are claiming here… It doesnt go with my own observations, and experiences with folks who get benefits…
BTW, “benefits” is not a word I like to see used…. It implies some sort of “earned right” — It isnt… It is a healing sort of thing…. Help these folks out… assist them so that they can become better producers in the society….
Why do you think Clinton passed some of the toughest welfare reform legislation that has been passed in years??? Get people BACK to work…. STOP the welfare family generation problem…. dont allow the welfare system to become a part of anybody’s family heritage….
Rage I am pretending Chass has a brain. Humor us.
Specifically, ANTI-JR, what are you complaining about? The laws are on the books.
Idiots who use largely imagined complaints.
——
Rage, you ignorant bastard, those are facts. If you go through life blind you will see nothing.
Answer the question, troll.
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:44 pm | Permalink
Specifically, ANTI-JR, what are you complaining about? The laws are on the books.
——
So that makes them impervious to abuse? Got it.
Of course the Hummer could have been STOLEN.
JONESVILLE — “It doesn’t pay to apply for welfare while driving a Hummer,” declared Lee County Sheriff Gary Parsons after his officers charged a Tennessee man with possession of stolen property after he drove the expensive vehicle to the local department of social services.
http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9005096
I guess you can file that one under “stupid criminal”.
Paul claims that Obama agrees with Wagle.
Obama doesn’t.
Wagle says that poor people could come up with 500 to 1000 extra dollars a month if they just gave up cell phones and HBO.
Assuming that all poor people have cell phones and HBO (really asinine), we’re looking at roughly 100 dollars a month.
Nowhere close to buying individual health-care let alone family health-care.
Wagle and her ilk are not clueless, they’re vicious: “we’ve got ours, and everybody else can go to hell.”
Answer the damn question, troll. What are you trying to change?
#
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:36 am | Permalink
Regular
Posted August 15, 2008 at 11:21 am | Permalink
I’m still wondering why the Wichita Eagle would have a copy of Chas’s professional Minister papers.
Chas never answered that one.
===========================================
Answer — AGAIN: To protect myself from LIARS like Franklin, and others on this Blog… Can you remember that this time??
———————————-
Why would you need protection if you’re anonymous?
Since the Wichita Eagle has that information, can we get a print out?
Another question: When you ran this non-profit group for 23 years, was this before you met Jim Jones or after you ran around with Jesse Jackson?
Ummmm Regular — Hank’s answer, truthfully, could be BOTH will pay with a vision card… or NEITHER will pay with a vision card…
Maybe the one with the fresh fruits, meat, produce, etc…. IF she is buying for herself and a disabled husband…. or child….
Maybe the one with the tattoos, and all the junk food…. cause she has a housefull of little brat grandkids, and they are eating granny out of house and home….
Then we could just be plain old-fashioned bigoted and say: Obviosly the tattooed lady, with the junk food, cause after all, that’s how THOSE people live….
Chas
“Why do you think Clinton passed some of the toughest welfare reform legislation that has been passed in years??? ”
Uh, maybe because a new Republican majority in the House and Senate shoved it down his throat?
Chas when I was in OK and worked in a TG&Y store we had a shopper that bought clothes and brought them back after wearing them frequently. She was a third generation welfare family and proud of it. She had a kid just about the time the oldest one would be moving into their own ‘welfare’ house. She was 42 when she had her last one.
Yes I know this for a fact. I handled this ladies transactions on a regular basis. I do think that now ladies have to work and childcare is furnished by the state at least in Ok.
I had one worker who was part time. A good worker but when I offered her full time she said no because she would lose her childcare payments and medicaid for her and her kids.
Laws are frequently broken or ignored.
WOW once again Regular shows that he just loves to be one of the Blog’s biggest LIARS!!!
“Another question: When you ran this non-profit group for 23 years, was this before you met Jim Jones or after you ran around with Jesse Jackson?”
GO BACK AND READ WHAT I POSTED…. AND WHEN YOU GET IT RIGHT, PERHAPS WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION….
NITWIT!!!
#
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
Answer the damn question, troll. What are you trying to change?
———————–
Hey I hear that the Patriot Act communications portion comes up for another vote in four years. :D
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
Answer the damn question, troll. What are you trying to change?
——-
I want greater over sight and accountability for these programs.
Laws are frequently broken or ignored.
Yeah, I know, that why we have people who enforce them.
Was there a point in there somewhere?
Ummmmm —- OKOB —- Exactly where in your illustratiion was any LAW broken??
#
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
WOW once again Regular shows that he just loves to be one of the Blog’s biggest LIARS!!!
“Another question: When you ran this non-profit group for 23 years, was this before you met Jim Jones or after you ran around with Jesse Jackson?”
GO BACK AND READ WHAT I POSTED…. AND WHEN YOU GET IT RIGHT, PERHAPS WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION….
NITWIT!!!
————————-
So was it in between the time of Jim Jones or Jesse Jackson? I mean you’ve met them all and been everywhere –
Didn’t you say you need somebody in Arkansas connected to that shooting? Like you knew the novice assistant flunky who was the part time volunteer deputy substitute.
Heckler–
Again, you lie.
Clinton could have vetoed welfare reform just like he did many other bills.
I personally think it was a mistake–welfare reform’s main effect was throwing children to the wolves.
But at least it took the false image of the “welfare queen” out of the playbook of the hateful CON playbook.
Until Susan Wagle comes along, hehehe.
Look for her quote to be on a radio-ad near you . . . We’ll let the people decide if they agree.
I want greater over sight and accountability for these programs.
Like?
Granny —- Did I not JUST post that Clinton passed sweeping welfare reforms to STOP the welfare heritage for families…
Whether they were proud of it or not!!!
okobservor
Maybe you should pay better? Kind of like working for walmart.
Chas–
FYI, you don’t have to rise to every bait the right-wing throws at you.
Every reasonable reader of this blog knows what they are and what they do.
You don’t have to prove anything to them.
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:56 pm | Permalink
I want greater over sight and accountability for these programs.
Like?
——
If they cheat, Jonny Law shoots their dog in the face. :)
welfare reform’s main effect was throwing children to the wolves.
——
Wolves got to eat too!
And REGULAR LIES YET AGAIN!!!! What a dope… ooops he’s on dope… What an idiot!!
“Didn’t you say you need somebody in Arkansas connected to that shooting? Like you knew the novice assistant flunky who was the part time volunteer deputy substitute.”
I never said much of anything about the Arkansas shooting, JAMES…. I may have said something to the effect that we dont have many details pertaining to motive yet… There wasnt anything much to be said… other than the tragedy of the event…
STOP YOUR NITWIT LYING!!!
#
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:56 pm | Permalink
I want greater over sight and accountability for these programs.
Like?
————————
Checking the parking lot near the State Building in Wichita and see who drives up with what kind of car and where they go afterward. Perhaps explain why half the people in the Vision card area have cell phones and are yapping on them.
Verifying that the kids they claim that are theirs are theirs and not a neighbors or their cousin’s kids which are already claimed on welfare programs. (the “I’m living with my Auntie” routine.)
For instance, Chas, I just don’t even bother to read Anti’s posts.
It’s much more pleasant that way.
You don’t owe anybody a response, nor do you have to even read them if you don’t want.
They don’t make the rules.
ANTI
Posted August 15, 2008 at 1:31 pm | Permalink
I have worked with them in the past. I know “fo’ certain”
“fo’ certian”
Is that a racist remark?
I think you’re fibbing.
So how many of the “trailer denizens” do you know well enough that you’ve been in their homes and gone grocery shopping with them?
Capn
Lie? WTF?
#
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:00 pm | Permalink
And REGULAR LIES YET AGAIN!!!! What a dope… ooops he’s on dope… What an idiot!!
“Didn’t you say you need somebody in Arkansas connected to that shooting? Like you knew the novice assistant flunky who was the part time volunteer deputy substitute.”
I never said much of anything about the Arkansas shooting, JAMES…. I may have said something to the effect that we dont have many details pertaining to motive yet… There wasnt anything much to be said… other than the tragedy of the event…
STOP YOUR NITWIT LYING!!!
————————————-
So back to Jesse Jackson and Jim Jones. Were you invited to drink the Koolaid?
How was the Rainbow Coalition back in those days? Did you live on the West Side of Chicago or were you a suburbanite down in Joliet, living in a flophouse near Jake and Elwood?
Someone from a big faceless bureaucracy should check on James and find out if his “bad back” story checks out . . . If he can blog all day, why can’t he do data entry for minimum wage?
Sorry CapN…. I just hate it when bigots think they have control….
#
CapnAmerica
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:03 pm | Permalink
Someone from a big faceless bureaucracy should check on James and find out if his “bad back” story checks out . . . If he can blog all day, why can’t he do data entry for minimum wage?
————————-
Is your daughter 18 yet Crapn?
Just asking…
Heckler–
Your lie was that Clinton had welfare reform rammed down his throat.
He could have easily vetoed the bill. He supported it.
I personally think it was a mistake–welfare reform’s main effect was throwing children to the wolves.
That’s about right. It was chocked full of punitive measures designed to boot people out of the system at any opportunity. Then there was the 5-year lifetime limit. I don’t think anyone should, normally, be receiving 5 years of public assistance, but this one-size-fits-all “solution” simply pushed the people out the door–it was tremendously irresponsible.
Human compassion aside,we’re $till paying the price.
I personally think it was a mistake–welfare reform’s main effect was throwing children to the wolves.
That’s about right. It was chocked full of punitive measures designed to boot people out of the system at any opportunity. Then there was the 5-year lifetime limit. I don’t think anyone should, normally, be receiving 5 years of public assistance, but this one-size-fits-all “solution” simply pushed the people out the door–it was tremendously irresponsible.
Human compassion aside,we’re $till paying the price.
I think you’re fibbing.
So how many of the “trailer denizens” do you know well enough that you’ve been in their homes and gone grocery shopping with them?
—–
Have you ever worked a hard day in your life? I have worked in construction and engineering most of my life. You get to know the crews you work for or with. 16 hour days away from home for months, people talk about themselves. Abuse happens and is more common than you know. Just because it is a law doesn’t mean people won’t find a way around it.
Thanks, Rage, agreed.
What the right-wing probably knows but doesn’t care about is that most welfare recipients are children.
You can’t punish the parents without punishing the kids.
X, ANTI started as “ANTI-JR.” Don’t expect any straight answers. I just wasted my time with the troll (even after having been privately reminded of this), don’t make the same mistake.
Capn
“Your lie was that Clinton had welfare reform rammed down his throat.
He could have easily vetoed the bill. He supported it.”
The fact that my opinion differs from yours does not make the statement a lie. It means our opinion differs. Clinton saw that public opinion was running in favor of the Republicans, and being the whore of polls that he was, He said “Ah suppote this bill and always have”.
Actually I made that Clinton quote up. But he was a whore to whatever the polls said. Just my humble opinion, not a lie.
get over yourself.
#
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink
I personally think it was a mistake–welfare reform’s main effect was throwing children to the wolves. gross mischaracterization
That’s about right. It was chocked full of punitive measures designed to boot people out of the system at any opportunity. Then there was the 5-year lifetime limit. I don’t think anyone should, normally, be receiving 5 years of public assistance, but this one-size-fits-all “solution” simply pushed the people out the door–it was tremendously irresponsible.
You don’t think it’s right, but let’s support the lifetime welfare recipients. Flappy-headed speak.
Human compassion aside,we’re $till paying the price.
Yes, let’s throw Human compassion to the side and enter a dollar amount. How much you figure is the right amount?
Rage
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:09 pm | Permalink
X, ANTI started as “ANTI-JR.” Don’t expect any straight answers. I just wasted my time with the troll (even after having been privately reminded of this), don’t make the same mistake.
—–
It is sad that you little Lib fairies take this blog so serious to back channel information….HA HA!!! Truly pah-thetic.
Clinton expressed reservations about the bill, but he signed it anyway. He could have put up a fight, like he did on the budget.
One of many reasons why I wrote in “Ralph Nader” that yeer.
It is sad that you little Lib fairies take this blog so serious to back channel information….HA HA!!! Truly pah-thetic.
Actually, it was just a quick FYI from a friend. But thanks for sharing.
You are welcome.
Operation PUSH
Though often overshadowed by its founder, Jesse Jackson, Operation PUSH (People United to Serve Humanity) has been one of the most important social justice organizations in the United States since 1971.
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/934.html
#
Chas
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:18 pm | Permalink
Operation PUSH
Though often overshadowed by its founder, Jesse Jackson, Operation PUSH (People United to Serve Humanity) has been one of the most important social justice organizations in the United States since 1971.
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/934.html
———————————-
So, what part did you do Chas and where? Were you the PUSH or the PULL part? Did you get to wear the tri-color on your lapel?
ANTI
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:07 pm | Permalink
Have you ever worked a hard day in your life?
_____________________________________________
Why yes, I have. Beyond anything you can imagine. I’ve shoveled coke out of gondola cars. I’ve busted car engines in a foundry with a sledgehammer. I’ve loaded cow hides standing knee deep in blood and brine water. I’ve loaded bags of concrete in the desert. I’ve worked in an environment where anything you touched around you would sear the flesh.
I wasn’t born an engineer with a cushy office and job.
Heckler–
Don’t write something that makes no sense on its face, and I won’t have to call you on it.
Heheheheh.
“I think you’re fibbing.
So how many of the “trailer denizens” do you know well enough that you’ve been in their homes and gone grocery shopping with them?”
Not only is antiJR a troll, but a lying troll at that. She/he knows as much about welfare cheats as she/he does about all those gay pride events she/he has claimed to have “seen” while traveling.
And if you really want to get anti to poodle dance, just question or call BS like I did on the gay pride events.
Anti will meltdown expected in 3.. 2…. 1…..
Dance poodle dance!
“So, what part did you do Chas and where? Were you the PUSH or the PULL part? Did you get to wear the tri-color on your lapel?”
*****
You don’t have to respond to that, Chas.
We all know that Regular is a desiccated corpse with nothing going on in his life except for this pathetic blog.
Having nothing to be proud of, he can only ridicule the good work that others like you have done.
KFG married a man, typical behavior for a lesbo. You be the judge.
ANTI
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
It is sad that you little Lib fairies take this blog so serious to back channel information….HA HA!!! Truly pah-thetic.
______________________________________________
Anti, I have yet to dis you.
Are you calling me a fairie?
Yes, let’s throw Human compassion to the side and enter a dollar amount. How much you figure is the right amount?
Hard to quantify. Some reasonable guesses:
Emergency-room visits. Burial expenses. More untreated diseased, some no doubt contagious. More crime. More domestic disputes. Overcrowed jails and prisons. Less productivity. More economic instability. Greater debt. More foreclosures. And so so.
On the upside, if the suffering masses don’t cough the latest superbug on you or kill you for the 15 bucks in your wallet, they probably won’t ruin your empire with their votes.
Capn
“Don’t write something that makes no sense on its face, and I won’t have to call you on it.”
Seems that there’s very little that makes sense to you Capn.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
“So, what part did you do Chas and where? Were you the PUSH or the PULL part? Did you get to wear the tri-color on your lapel?”
*****
You don’t have to respond to that, Chas.
We all know that Regular is a desiccated corpse with nothing going on in his life except for this pathetic blog.
Having nothing to be proud of, he can only ridicule the good work that others like you have done.
———————
So Crapn,
Have your daughter call me, we can do lunch or something…
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php
Single-Payer National Health Insurance
Single-payer national health insurance is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private.
Currently, the U.S. health care system is outrageously expensive, yet inadequate. Despite spending more than twice as much as the rest of the industrialized nations ($7,129 per capita), the United States performs poorly in comparison on major health indicators such as life expectancy, infant mortality and immunization rates. Moreover, the other advanced nations provide comprehensive coverage to their entire populations, while the U.S. leaves 47 million completely uninsured and millions more inadequately covered.
The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.
Single-payer financing is the only way to recapture this wasted money. The potential savings on paperwork, more than $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to everyone without paying any more than we already do.
Under a single-payer system, all Americans would be covered for all medically necessary services, including: doctor, hospital, long-term care, mental health, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs. Patients would regain free choice of doctor and hospital, and doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.
Physicians would be paid fee-for-service according to a negotiated formulary or receive salary from a hospital or nonprofit HMO / group practice. Hospitals would receive a global budget for operating expenses. Health facilities and expensive equipment purchases would be managed by regional health planning boards.
A single-payer system would be financed by eliminating private insurers and recapturing their administrative waste. Modest new taxes would replace premiums and out-of-pocket payments currently paid by individuals and business. Costs would be controlled through negotiated fees, global budgeting and bulk purchasing
Anti, I have yet to dis you.
Are you calling me a fairie?
——-
If you then yes, if not then no. That post was for BJ, Capn’A, P.M., Rage, SED, and lovable Chas.
Hehe, having met XXX, I pity the fool that calls him a “faery.”
#
XXX
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink
ANTI
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
It is sad that you little Lib fairies take this blog so serious to back channel information….HA HA!!! Truly pah-thetic.
______________________________________________
Anti, I have yet to dis you.
Are you calling me a fairie?
——————-
You have something against fairies?
If you then yes=If you are then yes
You have something against fairies?
——
YES! They leave dust EVERYWHERE and the make a hideous buzzing noise when they fly!
“Single-payer national health insurance is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private.”
LOL!
Can you spell F A S C I S M?
A privately owned business being ran under the direction of the goevernment.
Regular
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink
You have something against fairies?
_____________________________________________
Did I say I had anything against fairies? I asked Anti if he’s calling me a fairie. I have yet to get a straight answer.
Now that you know, you can crawl back under your rock.
(snickers)
“Someone from a big faceless bureaucracy should check on James and find out if his “bad back” story checks out . . . If he can blog all day, why can’t he do data entry for minimum wage?”
I agree with that statement. However I also know why its nearly impossible to do. They won’t HIRE you. I think it would be great if we made more laws requiring business owners to actually enforce the Americans with Disabilities Act. If a job can be done with reasonable accomodation- let them have it.
Its funny that all these jobs are available to ex service men, and they can adhere to that all day long- but the disabilities thing is RARELY held to.
You know come to think of it, Regular would likely get MORE chance of getting a desk job somewhere because of his disabled VET status.
“Someone from a big faceless bureaucracy should check on James and find out if his “bad back” story checks out . . . If he can blog all day, why can’t he do data entry for minimum wage?”
I agree with that statement. However I also know why its nearly impossible to do. They won’t HIRE you. I think it would be great if we made more laws requiring business owners to actually enforce the Americans with Disabilities Act. If a job can be done with reasonable accomodation- let them have it.
Its funny that all these jobs are available to ex service men, and they can adhere to that all day long- but the disabilities thing is RARELY held to.
You know come to think of it, Regular would likely get MORE chance of getting a desk job somewhere because of his disabled VET status.
Did I say I had anything against fairies? I asked Anti if he’s calling me a fairie. I have yet to get a straight answer.
—–
No. That post was for BJ, Capn’A, P.M., Rage, SED, and lovable Chas. (The Merry Band)
Is that clearer XXX. I have not been insulted by you.
CapnAmerica
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink
Hehe, having met XXX, I pity the fool that calls him a “faery.”
________________________________________________
Anti, I’d offer you an opportunity to call me a fairy to my face, but I doubt if you have the courage of your convictions.
ANTI
Is that clearer XXX. I have not been insulted by you.
________________________________________________
I accept that. I withdraw my offer for a face to face.
HLP
“Can you spell F A S C I S M?
A privately owned business being ran under the direction of the goevernment.”
That’s what Freddie Mac and Fannie May are isnt it?
Hows that working out?
XXX, oh I have the courage of my convictions and the scars to prove it. Aparently, you did not read my post. If you had you would have seen that it wasn’t directed at you, as you have not insulted me.
I accept that
—-
OK, crossed post. disregard above post.
#
XXX
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:38 pm | Permalink
CapnAmerica
Posted August 15, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink
Hehe, having met XXX, I pity the fool that calls him a “faery.”
________________________________________________
Anti, I’d offer you an opportunity to call me a fairy to my face, but I doubt if you have the courage of your convictions.
————————————–
So, can I call you a “fairy to your face?”
If a job can be done with reasonable accomodation- let them have it.
—–
In my experience, disabled people(Mentally) generally have a great work ethic(Downs). They generally have a great enjoyment of their work as well. However some employees doubt their abilities. Also, there is a limited amount of jobs they can do safely. I would encourage others to hire them if you have a applicable position.
XXX, Vin Diesel?
“A privately owned business being ran under the direction of the goevernment.”
That’s what Freddie Mac and Fannie May are isnt it?” — heckler.
No, not yet anyway.
capn writes:
Don’t write something that makes no sense on its face, and I won’t have to call you on it.
And yet he feels free to claim that all church shooters are “CONs” and refuses to respond to calls for proof.
Hypocrite = capn
Glad to hear you support these kinds of things Mr.Price and friends how very christian of you
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader08142008.html
The current health care industry is a wasteful, redundant, defrauding mess costing Americans over 2.2 trillion this year and hundreds of thousands of avoidable injuries, fatalities and serious infections a year. The honest, competent caregivers are on the edge of despair, unable to do their best work due to the domination and control of commercial-profit priorities which include denial of care by these corporations.
People die or get sicker sometimes when they are denied health care. People die when they cannot afford health insurance – 18,000 Americans a year according to the Institute of Medicine
Corporate billing fraud and abuse costs over $200 billion a year. Ask Malcolm Sparrow of the Kennedy School at Harvard University or read his book License to Steal.
Do you ever hear John McCain or Barack Obama focus public attention on these tragedies and rip-offs of consumers and taxpayers?
The employers of health insurance companies, hospital chains and drug………
Dear annie,
Almost everything that is wrong with the health care industry is directly or indirectly the fault of government regulation or interference of some kind.
When the government is the problem, only a wacky liberal would look to the government for the cure.
Oh for petes sake Franklin. I go away for 2 hours and you get away with spin.
I didn’t say STFU. You can stand corrected about that. I
‘m not telling you what to think. I am just showing how your thinking isn’t as complete as you might think it is.
“Almost everything that is wrong with the health care industry is directly or indirectly the fault of government regulation or interference of some kind.
When the government is the problem, only a wacky liberal would look to the government for the cure”
Hank- I don’t disagree with you, I don’t the knowledge that I think you do on this subject. Do you think/want the health industry to be totally unregulated? Can you trust “them” to that extent to act irresponsibly?
“HLP” rants –
“Almost everything that is wrong with the health care industry is directly or indirectly the fault of government regulation or interference of some kind.”
Unmitigated bulls#it.
irresponsibly = responsibly
Hank:
I get help with my diabetes from the VA. I think it is run very well and very efficiently. In fact, some now call it a model for health care. I won’t disput that.
I think that there are too many exceptions to the possible rule that you spoke of.
Really Hank? well lets examine your hypothesis:
Lets think back to thalidomide. Remember that? Who was it that had to step in and remove that from use? Private industry or government?
Lets think back to when TB was on the scene, and we had government health to try to teach people about TB and how to avoid it. Smallpox anyone?
Now lets look at where we went WRONG- Nixon, signed with a private industry-Kaiser- to promote HMOs. A republican and we have him ON TAPE as saying it was going to be profitable for the insurance companies while giving LESS CARE. So that’s a negative in your government’s corner.
WHEN YOU PAY PEOPLE TO BE POOR, THEY WILL REMAIN POOR.
Okay Rage please tell me who is “enforcing” the welfare rules. I live in the NW and if I want to make a complaint about fraud waste and abuse of the welfare system I have to talk to someone in San Francisco because that is where the complaint would be worked from.
More mandates requires more enforcement, the problem is that there is NEVER enough enforcement to make the system work properly.
That is a big reason for the healthcare system being the way it is. So much has been mandated by the Guvment that it just keeps adding on to the costs.
In the VERY, VERY, VERY LIBERAL state I live in, the state legislature (dem majority of course) is now up to 42 different mandates that to sell health insurance in this state the insurance company MUST provide and that employers MUST pay for.
GEE I wonder what that does to the cost????
Yeah Po mom, it also use to be that anyone with TB had to go into a sanitarium until they were either cured or died.
To bad we didn’t do that with HIV, it would probably be eradicated in the US by now.
#
ANTI
Posted August 15, 2008 at 3:05 pm | Permalink
XXX, Vin Diesel?
————————-
Vin Diesel is a short little critter, even I could pick him up with one arm. :D
Corsi is the author of several books. In 2004, he wrote a critical biography on then Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry called Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry. In 2005 he wrote Atomic Iran: How the Terrorist Regime Bought the Bomb and American Politicians in 2005, which claimed Democratic politicians are corrupted by Iranian money and are helping the mullahs, who seek nuclear weapons, in Tehran.[6] That same year he co-authored Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil (2005) with Craig R. Smith.
In 2006, he also co-authored Showdown with Nuclear Iran: Radical Islam’s Messianic Mission to Destroy Israel and Cripple the United States with Michael D. Evans. In August 2006 he published Minutemen: The Battle to Secure America’s Borders with Minutemen founder Jim Gilchrist), published . This book heavily criticizes President George W. Bush’s border protection policies, and accuses him of furthering plans to create a North American Union.[7] In May 2006, Corsi co-wrote the book Rebuilding America with Kenneth Blackwell, then Ohio secretary of state and a Republican candidate for Governor of Ohio.[8]
wrong thread.
Maybe these “ladies”
or one of our resident troglodyte cons would like to share with us?
Where’s the threshold for compassion? NO TV? No house?
Ironically enough? It is just such as your greed that will eventually guarantee that we have health care for all.
Because you are outnumbered. You’re also gonna find yourselves in shorter and shorter supply of folks who will want anything to do with you.
“Her evidence: patients she saw who had cell phones ”
That’s not evidence of anything.
I may be one of the few people left in this country without a cell phone. I don’t want one.
And I have had to turn down jobs where they INSISTED that I get one as a condition of employment and at my own expense.
And I have had to turn down jobs where they INSISTED that I get one as a condition of employment and at my own expense.
HEHEHEHE
Does any body on this BLOG believe any of junior’s personal little anecdotes any more? Really!
What a nimrod! Refuses to get a cell phone. Too ignorant to et a taco at a drive through. Too bitter to get a fishing license at WalMart.
Does anyone believe his daily crap? If so I have some relative bearing grease to sell you. I keep it in my waterline locker.
#
LLTVET
Posted August 15, 2008 at 3:56 pm | Permalink
Hank:
I get help with my diabetes from the VA. I think it is run very well and very efficiently. In fact, some now call it a model for health care. I won’t disput that.
I think that there are too many exceptions to the possible rule that you spoke of.
_________________________________________________
With all the people that badmouth the VA, I think they are doing a pretty good job.
Did the doctors get their education in government schools?
Are your diabetes meds a result of government research and development?
Is the medical equipment that the VA use developed and manufactured by the government?
How well would the VA work without the private sector?
Just wondering.
That’s the problem: the liberals all think they’re entitled to things like cigarettes, cell phones, big TVs, cars…
They’ll use THEIR money to pay for those whilst the goverment, using money taken from those that EARN it, pays for their food, rent, healthcare.
Being poor should be painful. It’s the only motivation to get OUT of being poor.
Same logic as the “don’t feed the wildlife” signs in the National Parks. Make ‘em earn it.
Hank, your questions don’t support the notion of your original post. The government CAN be involved in health care without screwing it up.
Just because the private sector is necessary as well, doesn’t negate that fact.
Blue,
I felt the same way about cell phones for a long time, until my car broke down a long way from anywhere in 104 degree July, and my passenger had one and called AAA.
My solution was to buy a $39 Wal-Mart pre-pay special, and strictly limit (to 6 people) who I gave the number to. I put $25 worth of minutes on it in mid-March, and still have a bit over $15 worth left. Don’t use it much, but the security of having it in my pocket feels pretty good, especially when I’m out by myself shooting pictures on back roads in the Flint Hills!
Thanks for that Jed, but I really just don’t want one of the things. It’s a convenience that has become badly misused. I liked when it was harder for folks to communicate. I think it made us appreciate it more.
Heh. One place I worked, they gave cell phones to the management.
THAT lasted a couple of months. The desk jockeys used them for personal use, you’d even see one paper pusher talking to another when they were just maybe 50 feet away from one another. It ran the company MILLIONS of dollars in bills.
I wonder how that money might have been better spent on employee wellness.
All I can say BJ is they should have shopped for a better plan. With unlimited minutes they could have talked and night and day for years without spending millions. Or was this just one of your off the top of your head ‘facts’ with no substance.
Why would I lie?
I don’t have a cell phone and don’t want one. I just happen to know that just because someone has a cell phone is no reason for presumption they can afford health care.
More?
The article expands that Wagle sees people with newer cell phones each time she sees them.
Like I say, I don’t know much about cell phones. But unless I miss my guess they sometimes give the phones away to get you to sign up for a plan. So the fact that someone has a newer cell phone doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
BJ not sure who required you to get a cell phone in order to work for them but I think you need to stop hanging out with those union types. In our ’sweatshop’ we require our employees have a cell phone. Of course we do furnish them to each and every employee. We have found this to be beneficial to us both.
No union types involved in trying to inflict a cell phone on me okobserver.
” we require our employees have a cell phone. Of course we do furnish them to each and every employee. We have found this to be beneficial to us both.”
Why bless your little dark heart. Now you own them even when they are not on the clock.
No thanks.
But I do thank you for giving more evidence that just because someone has a cell phone they can afford health care. In the case of your employees and many other employees, a cell phone is not indicative of wealth.
It’s a leash.
Capn
During the primary, Obama clearly said that it might be necessary to garnish the wages of people who are too irresponsible to buy their own health insurance.
Also, the premium prices you are quoting are far too high.
“Being poor should be painful. It’s the only motivation to get OUT of being poor.
Same logic as the “don’t feed the wildlife” signs in the National Parks. Make ‘em earn it.”
Tell that to my disabled clients. It can be pretty hard to hold down a job when you’re mentally retarded or schizophrenic.
I always wondered how a person could tell who was “abusing the system” by standing in a grocery line. What makes you think you know what’s going on with a person simply by what sort of food they buy? I guess the poor are supposed to eat dogfood…only they’re not allowed to buy it with a vision card.
I occasionally take one of my clients shopping, while he sits and catches his breath, I check out his groceries with his vision card…I often wonder what people think when they see me using his card…probably that I’m some welfare queen taking advantage of the systwm because I can.
I guess you can’t always read a book by it’s cover, now can you?
Chas
Operation Push is a fraud, the primary purpose of which is to enrich Jessie Jackson.
Jackson flagrantly stole money from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Jackson had to leave that organization, and start the Rainbow Coalition, when he was called on his own dishonesty.
Have you ever noticed that those who oppose Nationalized Health Care don’t have to worry about insurance coverage? They usually have Medicare or VA benefits.
As long as the health care crisis doesn’t affect THEIR access to medical care..the hell with eveybody else.
It cost around $1,600 per month to buy private health insurance for a family…who can realistically afford that?
I’d like to know where a person can get good health insurance for the price of a cell phone and cable TV…that’s the policy I want to sign up for!
I have a relative who is an employee claims specialist for 120 different companies. She told me the average cost for private health insurance for a family is around $1,600 per month. My friend who works as a nurse at another agency here in town was also told that buying private health insurance for her family (her husband lost his job) would cost around that much.
Just in case inquiring minds are wondering where I got my info.
Pmom
Thalidamide is still available.
It is great for cancer patients, it makes them hungry.
It costs about $7K a month.
Damn, could buy a lot of pot with that kind of money, lol!
PeeMom…errrrr, Mary.
For every 1 mentally ill / disabled case, there are probably 500 able-bodied abusers of the system.
My previous comment stands. It needs to hurt.
Actually
There is a Federal “whistle blower” law, where Medicaid is concerned.
Many states have additional rewards.
I think they will give you a large chunk of the amount recovered.
http://medicaresmostwanted.blogspot.com/
Mary
Your $1,600 figure, for health premiums, is ridiculous.
I sell insurance.
That just is not true.
“It needs to hurt.”
That’s why we are going to have national health care.
Because I don’t think the cons could ever reach agreement on the threshold of pain.
And everyone else is going to get sick and tired of hurting while they figure it out.
BlueJay sings…..Ya say ya want a revolution
Yes testicle, because we know that you have the ability to see into one’s body and know whether or not they’re disabled.
Psst. I was just promoted :D Seriously!
It needs to hurt.
How’s that for a campaign slogan?
Vote Republican: It Needs to Hurt
*nod*
Amen
Well we shouldn’t be surprised Rage.
Lots of people are hurting because of the high gas prices.
Just the other day a Republican Senator called them whiners.
I agree. Why isn’t the GOP honest? Why don’t they run on “We hurt you long time!”
*nod*
Amen
Heeheheh, oh god, someone get this idiot in contact with Mike Duncan, and quick!
this idiot
heh
My saying is “Vote Republican, it hurts so good!”
PMama says:
Political_mama
Posted August 15, 2008 at 9:46 pm | Permalink
“Psst. I was just promoted Seriously!”
==========================================
Congratulations, PMama!!!
“Your $1,600 figure, for health premiums, is ridiculous.
I sell insurance.
That just is not true.”
Sorry, but it IS true. If you know so much..give me a brief summary of your health care policy for a family, what it covers and what it cost, including the deductable.
My sources say it’s now about $1,600 per month for a family policy. And she is a employee benefit administrator for over 120 companies. My other source is a nurse who was trying to find coverage for her family after her husband lost his job. They don’t lie.
“For every 1 mentally ill / disabled case, there are probably 500 able-bodied abusers of the system.”
I can tell you it’s very difficult for someone to prove they’re disabled in order to receive services.
I’d like to see your sources where you get that number. I’m curious, what constitutes abuse in your eyes? Someone who buys a steak with a Vision card? a single mother on Medicaid who gives birth? A person who uses a Vision card to buy groceries and they’re talking on a cell phone? I think you need to be specific about what you consider abuse.
Food stamps are for those who meet the income guidelines..that can include college students, single working moms, elderly people, etc. You don’t have to be disabled to qualify for a Vision card.
hey capn….ignoring me won’t make your stupid, unsubstantiated statement go away. c’mon…back up your asinine claim, will ya?
Or…can you be mature enough to admit it was a fabrication? Of course not…one thing you nave never done on this blog is demonstrate any maturity.
Mary
You would only see a premium of that size with a very small deductable, likely $250 or less. Certainly no higher than $500.00.
Insurance premiums do go up, with age, however, kids get older as well.
For a “family” as you ask?
Mother and Father can be covered for less than $100 a month, at age 50, if they do not smoke.
Children can be covered for between $30 and $77.00.
This is for a $5,000.00 deductable policy, which I recommend for most people, IF they will fund a Health savings account, for the “difference in premium” —
—-
What is the difference?
Look at a $500 deductable non smoker for:
Age 50 male: $313.00 a month.
Age 50 female: $365.00 a month
Children under 2: $216 a month.
Children age 2 to 18: $67 to $97 a month.
lets assume 2 kids, one a newborn, one age 15, both female:
313
365
216
94
—-
988.00
BUT, the premium for the $5000 deductable would be
91
119
77
33
—-
$320
This is a $668.00 difference in premium. Put that money into an HSA, and in one year you will have $8,016.00.
(Actually, there is an HSA limit, on a family plan, of $5,800 per year. This would be $483 per month. I would suggest putting $483 per month into the HSA, and attempt to put additional savings in some other savings vehicle.)
Family budgets being what they are, sometimes you have to do this gradually. There are HSA approved insurance plans with lower deductables, for people worried about a huge medical bill, in the first year.
You could also partially fund the HSA, and perhaps hit the $5,000 deductable amount over a 2 year period, which would be easier for some families.
In ANY event, any health care cost that DOES come up, before the HSA is funded to the $5,000 level?
You are free to write a check to your HSA, and then make a payment out of the HSA, at any time, up to the limits.
And, AFTER you hit the $5,000 mark? You can continue to fund the HSA, to any amount you want.
HSA plans are BETTER, tax wise, than ANY IRA or 401K, as any funds pulled out for medical purposes are TAX FREE, while any funds going in are tax deductable!
I worked my way through college back when Safeway was still in town.
I will always remember the guy that bought drink mixers, junk food snacks, lobster meat and crab meat and steaks, with food stamps.
He then bought cigarettes, and bear, with a big wad of bills, and the leftover change from his food stamps.
He then through the remaining coins in my face and said:
“Keep the chump change!”
Yes, this is only one case, but I saw others just as disturbing.
This guy was later busted on drug charges and promoting prostitution.
he then threw
wow, time to get out of the chair and enjoy the day
beer
Safeway did not sell bear.
Allergies are KILLING me, too.
What is the pollen count, today?
Both of my kids have been really REALLy sick from the slime mold growing in the yard. It looks like someone spraypainted my grass silver.
Apparently it will resolve itself but until the grass dries out mold spores should be thru the roof.
Pall,
Don’t know today’s pollen count, but it’s the height of the ragweed season.
Some few years ago, the legislature was discussing spraying the state’s wild marijuana, but the NRA bunch put a stop to it because it might also kill the giant ragweed (which the hunters seem to like). Now I don’t know about you, but I’d gladly sacrifice the pot crop to get rid of the ragweed!
$5,000 per year deductable? So that would add almost another $500 a month to the total above, a family wouyld have to pay over $800 per month if someone had a major illness (or even a minor one with the healthcare costs today)
How many families do you know that can afford over $800 a month for healthcare expenses? I don’t know too many who can.
Mary
You just got through telling me that some ficticious family would have to pay $1,600 a month in premiums.
That would be $19,200 per year in total premiums.
Maybe the employer would pick up part of that in a group plan.
Still, as far as competitive pricing is concerned, I just showed you how to reduce the premium to $320.00 per month. In fact, I am sure that I could get the premium lower than that. I gave as an example a 50 year old couple with a newborn girl and a 15 year old girl. I am betting that the “family” you speak of is a bit younger, with no newborns, which are expensive.
However, if you compare YOUR family premium to my INFLATED premium (Still lower than yours) that give you a $1,280.00 difference in premium payments, on a monthly basis, or $15,360 per year in premium savings.
What in the world do you not understand here?
Under MY plan, it would take less than 4 MONTHS to “bank” the $5,000 in savings.
The ONLY reason THAT example does not work well?
YOUR premiums are WAY too high, and that is why I used my own, reasonable, REAL premium quotes.
Mary, you give me the ages and smoking status and the sex of everyone in your ficticious “family” and I can blow your premium numbers out of the water.
I do not doubt that you have been misled. I am not questioning your honesty. I am, however, informing you that your “expert” is either making HORRIBLE purchasing decisions, in the insurance plans that employer provides, or that person is not telling you the truth!
Mary
Reading again, I do not think you understand.
The HSA concept is TWO accounts.
First, you buy the High Deductable plan. The deductable can be lower than $5,000.00, but I suggest keeping it as high as possible.
Then, you set up an Heath Savings Account. The HSA is availabe for ALL deductables. You do not HAVE to dip into the HSA if you don’t want to, but money spent on health care is tax free, if you do use the HSA. Everything you put into the HSA, up to a yearly maximum, is tax deductable.
In the very rare cases where someone “converts” or “replaces” current insurance to a high deductable plan, and then has an early, very high health care expense?
What is the problem there, exactly?
If you have an expense in the first month, you can write a personal check to the HSA, and deduct the entire amount, and then pay the health care bill out of the HSA.
Also, if you are funding the HSA out of payroll deduction, what is the problem?
In the ridiculously high premium that you posted, if THAT person converted to an HSA type plan, it would only take less than 4 months on the payroll to save up enough in the HSA savings account, to match the deductable on the High Deductable Insurance portion of the plan.
Again, I think YOUR numbers are not valid. That is why I used a $500 deductable plan premium, as the base, and then gave you the $5,000.00 premium.
My advice would be to sock as much of the “difference” in premium as you can into the tax deductable HSA savings account.
Also, money put into the HSA SAVINGS account is YOURS, FOREVER!
You can use it for whatever you want, if you don’t mind being taxed on the money.
Or, you can use it for health care expenses, tax free.
Or, you an carry it into retirement.
It is a better deal Mary.
Granted, not everyone is responsible enough to use it correctly, but most people would be, if it were explained properly.
By the way, for anyone interested, I started sending the “savings” portion of the HSA plan to Intrust Bank, locally.
I would rather sell the health insurance portion and not mess with the savings part of the plan.
I make NO money off the savings portion that way, but it is less headache for me, and far less expense to my clients.
“Mary, you give me the ages and smoking status and the sex of everyone in your ficticious “family” and I can blow your premium numbers out of the water.”
This isn’t a fictious family..I don’ty know their personal details, but it’s a mom and dad with 3 kids.
You’re whole plan is based on the idea that people can AFFORD to bank a large deductable in a few months..I’m saying in todays’s economy, not too many families can do that.
My other source, like I said before, is an employee benefits specialist for over 120 companies. It came directly from her.
My friend’s husband carried the benefits through his company…which we all know aloows discounts for group plicies. He lost his job, COBRA only lasts for a awhile, and she couldn’t come to work with our company because at the time, my company didn’t offer health insurance. They were going to have to pay $1,600 per month out of pocket to get a family policy. She ended up working for a company that offered health insurance…which is wrong. She should be able to work wherever she wanted and not have to worry about it. That’s another reason why we need universal health care, so people don’t HAVE to be stuck in dead end jobs they hate just for the benefits. She was lucky that she has the kinds of skills that enable her to get a job that offers benefits…many people are not even that fortunate.
Mary
We can not design an entire sytem for the unusual circumstances that you describe.
Instead, there should be special considerations for such things.
And there are, already.
Cobra and other “portability” features for instance.
If you have a family with 3 children? I can probably use the premiums I just quoted you, as the chance that they have one child under 2 is not that high.
You should be able to use the quotes I gave you, already, to get a very reasonable estimate of what a plan should cost, for such a family.
You seem to want government control, regardless of the consequences.
You seem to assume that all consequences will be positive, and you discount the negative, in your socialized medicine fantasies.
Again, what kills the “universal coverage” idea is:
1.) Labor Union members do not want a cut in their benefits.
2.) Retired people, on Medicare, do not want a change in their benefits.
3.) The government, frankly, can not afford another benefit plan, with the baby boomers all nearing retirement right now.
Medicare is not as good as most “group” plans.
How do the Democrats get seniors to accept any plan that might be “better” than Medicare, without also giving that plan to the seniors, as well?
Again, Mary, you $1,600 a month premium figure, for this family, is ridiculous.
It is wrong. You can not get that quote in writing, anywhere, and I am sure of it.
Another question, do you have a problem with everyone who CAN afford the HSA option taking advantage of such an option?
(Actually, the HSA option is CHEAPER for most people, but I am using your language. If you do not have a serious health care expense in the first 3 years, you will have more than enough money in your HSA Savings Account to handle that deductable. And — that money is YOURS, you did hot “spend” it, you INVESTED it in your future!)