Nationally, the numbers of Americans without health insurance decreased during the most recent reporting period, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. But the good news doesn’t extend to Kansas, where the percentage of Kansans without health coverage rose from 11.3 percent in 2005-06 to 12.5 percent in 2006-07. Only nine other states saw increases over the latest two-year period. “This is a marathon, not a sprint,” Rep. Brenda Landwehr, R-Wichita, recently said of the Legislature’s efforts toward health reform. But it also should be a growing priority for lawmakers.
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95 Comments
Go to a European nation that provides universal health care for its citizens and ask how many people in the country have filed bankruptcy due to an inability to pay health care costs. They’ll laugh in your face. In America the number keeps growing, it’s the number one reason people file for bankruptcy.
Who’s at fault here … the doctors and medical care providers OR the health insurance companies?
It’s obvious the system as it works now is unaffordable by many people.
Some years ago, on the way to a doctor’s appointment, I stopped at a service station near the medical offices at K.U. Medical Center in K.C. I got to talking to the mechanic/owner who told me he had been a medical corpsman in the military. He advised me on how to home treat my ear ache and ear wax problem.
He said a number of neigborhood families regularly visited his mechanic shop for health advice which they couldn’t afford otherwise. Although he couldn’t accept health insurance, he did have a tip jar on the pneumatic auto lift.
But the station has since been torn down to make way for hospital expansion.
Let’s see, Massachusetts was given as that beacon on a hill for health coverages.
The problem is, Massachusetts is more than 600 million in debt with uncovered medical expenses.
Whether you realize it not, Americans not in Massachusetts are paying for the health care system in Massachusetts. This is done by putting Medicaid eligibility determinations back in the hands of the state Medicaid program. Then they seize the state’s Medicaid waiver, to tackle covering uninsured individuals who are ineligible for Medicaid. That waiver currently pumps $385 million a year in Federal Medicaid money into the state’s uncompensated care pool, which in turn pays it out to hospitals treating the uninsured. But the Feds told the state that they wouldn’t approve a waiver extension absent a state plan to achieve better results with the money.
Even with that extra infusion of cash from taxpayers like those in Kansas, Massachusetts health plan is falling deeper and deeper in debt.
Maggotpunk” You don’t have to go to as far as Europe….think Canada. One thing folks don’t realize is that most places with univeral healthcare are social liberals and fiscal conservatives, where running a defecit is a political death knell.
But. . . But. . .
We’ve got a liberal democrat for a governor! She’s formally the insurance commissioner!
If she can’t make sure our babies are safe we’re doomed!
Oh woe, oh woe!
“HLP” –
You misspelled “I’ve got mine, the rest can go to hell.”
#
#
Monkeyhawk
Posted August 31, 2008 at 8:15 am | Permalink
“HLP” –
You misspelled “I’ve got mine, the rest can go to hell.”
__________________________________________________
We can only hope, monkeyman, we can only hope.
Hank, do you see something humorous about this? How “republican” of you.
Good morning XXX,
I generally see a little humor in most things.
I read the link, the number of uninsured nationally is down to 15.3% Kansas has increased to 12.5%. So we are still 20% better than the national average.
Another TTBOI is that most of the uninsured are in the 19 to 34 age group. They don’t see the need for insurance. They should be able to make that choice. Their greatest risk is from accidents. They are covered by home owners insurance, automobile insurance and worker’s comp.
The biggest solution on the table in the Kansas legislator is ‘raise the tobacco tax’. Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are!
How much do huge award lawsuits add to the cost of medicine? I don’t pretend to know the answer, but when a dr.’s malpractice insurance climbs continually, the cost has got to be passed on somewhere.
Or, the doctors leave…like in Nevada, there is a tremendous shortage of pediatricians after mega lawsuits.
The Governor of California is being urged to sign into law a bill that would forbid insurance companies from dumping clients months and years after being approved for coverage. A 51 year man named Todd got cancer and his insurance company went over his file to discover a knee ailment unrelated to cancer, a month after he got sick, and that was used as grounds to cancel his insurance. He died 8 mos later. Blue Cross has been fined $10 million for dumping 1,770 clients, Blue Shield $3 million for dumping 450 clients with Kaiser, Permanente and others also being brought to account as well. The “Governator” said he would do it, even mentioned Mr. Todd in his State of the Union message, but ain’t done it so far.
“How much do huge award lawsuits add to the cost of medicine? I don’t pretend to know the answer, but when a dr.’s malpractice insurance climbs continually, the cost has got to be passed on somewhere. ” — Craptor
Why don’t you look it up, Craptor, and while your at it compare medical costs in states which have malpractice caps and those that don’t.
Ask people in countries with Government Health Care what they do when they get seriously ill as well.
More than ear, nose, throat. In need of a specialist.
Of course people not living as long will certainly take care of the Social Security problem.
When our gov was Insurance Commissioner, many, many health insurance companies LEFT the state of Kansas.
We are a small state, in terms of population.
As Insurance Commissioner, Sebelius pushed several mandates, which not only increased costs, but also caused alot of extra work, and extra calculations, for actuaries, in a very small market.
As Insurance Commissioner, Sebelius would take several months, even almost a year, to approve even the most reasonable premium increases.
This, also, caused many insurance companies to leaave the state of Kansas.
Now, we do not have as much competition as other states.
A little more competition would help keep rates down.
“Ask people in countries with Government Health Care what they do when they get seriously ill as well” — Mr. Kia
They get free treatment. GAWD. Yes, sometimes there’s a waiting list. Still, there’s a reason the U.S. is way down the list in all rankings of healthcare, including longevity. Compared to other countries, our present system does save us a lot on Social Security payments. Perhaps we should keep it.
Obama should lead by example:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii94/TheWalkingDude/1202847260449.jpg
Paul thanks to you for reminding me! I had all but forgotten about Kathy being insurance commissioner when I had to make a claim for damage done to my roof. Right afterwards my insurance company dropped me for making a claim. I contacted her and asked what I could do and how unfair it was. Basically I got no help and was told “oh well get another company!”. Don’t get me started on B.C./B.S.
There are people out there who smoke cigarettes and refuse to buy insurance, even when they can afford insurance.
Obama, if elected, will surely get CAUGHT smoking cigarettes, he tries hard to hide the fact that he is a smoker.
Obama, if elected, will be a walking campaign commercial for tobacco.
What will THAT do for health carer costs, in America?
OBAMA STILL SMOKES!
Maybe Obama can come to Wichita.
Maybe Obama can get busted for violating our new smoking ban?
Maybe the Eagle will have to decide what is more important, pushing Obama on us, or pushing that stupid STATE WIDE smoking ban on us.
beber
You do not know what you are talking about.
While many of the insurance companies that left, under Sebelius, have returned, under our new, Republican Insurance Commissioner, there are still a few who have not returned.
And, the truth is, Sebelius was a TERRIBLE Insurance Commissioner who made things much, much worse in this state.
Yes, we are recovering from the incompetent Sebelius, but we aren’t there yet.
We would have MORE insurance companies, operating in the state of Kansas, TODAY, if Sebelious had not chased so many of them out of the State, to begin with.
First, Wango boy bitches about Obama being a smoker, then he bitches about Kansas putting in a statewide smoking ban. So I guess with his Wangoness, you’re damned if you do, and damned if you want to stop it. More “linear” Wango logic from the resident fruitcake.
Isn’t Laura Bush a smoker. I guess this is yet another situation covered by IOKIYAR.
Franklin hasn’t ever needed to make any sense with his posts, just be prolific. I think he must be paid by the word.
Lucky for Americans our next President of the United States will make this topic a priority and we will all benefit!
Well, maybe all except insurance salesmen like Franklin. It’s karma again.
No, Laura Bush isn’t a smoker.
My position is very clear:
I don’t like smoking bans.
I think Obama should be honest about his own smoking habit.
I think Obama, if elected, will encourage people to take up smoking, which will increase health care costs.
Linda
Obama gets LOTS of money from insurance company executives. So did Hillary, so does McCain.
I am not the least bit worried about my income, should he be elected.
However, I do worry for my country.
Obama will screw things up, badly.
I am 46 yrs. old and my son is 11 and we have no health insurance because even through my husband’s employer it would cost us $500 a month. So Mrs. Landwehr, even if I gave up my $15.00 a month cell phone and my $70.00 a month cable, there is still no way we could afford it. It comes down to a choice of a roof over our head or insurance. For those of you who think it’s choice to not buy it, it’s not. If I were to get cancer, I’m basically gone, because I can’t afford to have the yearly tests to catch it early and if I do get it, no one is going to treat me with no insurance and we aren’t “poor” enough for medicare/medicaid. So, if this is a so-called choice it’s not one I would wish on my worst enemy.
berry
Several things come to mind.
First, your husbands employer should look, seriously, at offering a high deductable plan with a companion HSA or Health Savings Account.
Next, even if your employer is not willing to look at that very competitive alternative, your employer should at least look at increasing the deductable a little bit.
The premiums that you quote are very high, based on what you have told us here.
Next, if you have decided not to buy insurance through an employer plan, you should strongly consider buying insurance on your own.
A family plan, with a high deductable, would be very affordable.
An HSA, in addition to that plan, could add to your retirement income, if you never need it before retirement, or it could give you a tax break on any expenses you do have to pay, out of pocket, before retirement.
Finally, you are dreaming if you think that the government will bring costs down without destroying quality.
You are dreaming if you think we can cover all the risk involved, through the government, without horrible damage to the economy.
The government already subsidizes health care for those over age 65. The taxpayer cost, for that subsidy, was roughly $760 per person, in 2007.
There is risk in life.
Auto insurance does not pay for gasoline or oil.
Home owners insurance does not pay for painting your house.
Health insurance should NOT pay, 100%, for routine, small expenses.
Insurance is for large bills. Pay the little stuff yourself, and you will save a great deal of money.
The fact is that even IF an individual wants health care insurance, he/she can’t afford it. And another fact is that even if you DO have the money to pay the monthly premiums…just try getting your insurance carrier to pay a claim. It’s all a game to make the insurance companies rich. They’re in the biz to make money…not to provide services.
I can’t help but notice that those who are so against any form of government substidized health care for the average working Americans are the ones who have free hralth care courtesy of the US govenment. What hypocrites.
“A family plan, with a high deductable, would be very affordable”…unless you get sick!
So in addition to paying the premiums, they have to pay an additional $5,000 per year if they get sick…what average working American can afford that?
Health care should be a basic right, like clean water, good roads, fire and police protection…all those things a person needs to survive. Every American should have the right to AFFORDABLE and ACCESSABLE healthcare. It should not be just a privelege for the old, the poor, members of Congress, and those who spend a few years in the military..it should be equally available to everyone.
If we had never invaded Iraq…look at the what we could have done for our country with the trillions of dollars we’re wasting there.
Instead of provideing basic health care to our citizens, we’re building hospitals in Iraq and providing health care for it’s citizens….what’s wrong with this whole picture?
So, tell us Franklin….who provides your health insurance?
Berry…I went through cancer..and it was like pulling teeth to get my insurance company to pay for anything. I had to fight for my treatment the whole time I was sick.
When it was all over, I told them that having cancer was bad, but dealing with them was worse. You wouldn’t believe the games they played to deny my claims.
If my husband should lose his job, I won’t be able to get insurance due to my health history.
The cost of treating my cancer was over $70,000 eight years ago…if I should get sick again and not have insurance, it will wipe out eveything we’ve worked for all our lives. That’s not right in a country as rich has this one.
America can afford to offer it’s citizens healthcare at an affordable price…that’s what we need to work toward.
As a nurse, I see first hand everyday what my patients with private insurance go through to try and get the health care they deserve. They pay their premiums for years only to get denied when they need services.
It works much easier with Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA. The guidelines are clear and everyone is treated the same. They doen’t play games in the hope that patients will give up fighting and pay out of pocket. Insurance companies only care about their bottom line…not the people they’re “providing service” for.
HEHEHE
Once while on patrol in the Med we figured out how much money we would be making if we were getting paid minimum wage. Quite a bit of money! More than the Merchant Marine, with fewer benefits I might add! That being said, if we were getting minimum we’d be making about three times as much as we were.
Other than a few ‘hangover kits’ supplied from the corpsman I was never sick a day while in the Navy. I was a diver and other than the traditional shot of brandy after a dive I never took any medicine.
I have now been retired longer than I was in the Navy and I’ve used less than $1,000 of medical care since retirement. That was for my emergency room care this year for my various broken bones.
Now I suppose you might consider my health benefits from the government ‘free’, Mary but I believe riding a submarine on and off for 21 years entitles me to the care! I have more than earned it!
When a man retires from the military he enters the work force around 40 years old. Military experience counts for a lot, but not as much as twenty years in the community with the experience and trust and respect that you can build up over that amount of time.
Soon, I will benefit from the ‘free’ mandatory Medicare coverage that I’ve been paying for most of my adult life. Even though one could consider it paid for I still will have to pay a monthly premium, put up with the annual deductible, come up with a copay or pay for a supplemental policy. Even then, my choices will be, yes or no and I’ll be at the mercy of a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats.
I work with insurance companies every day at work. I find them to be relatively fair and efficient when it comes to paying their claims. They pretty much follow their contracts.
PeeMom….errrr, Mary,
The $5000 deductible is the MAXIMUM expense a subscriber would pay. It doesn’t mean that would be used every year.
I spend about $300 every month for insurance – $3600/year. Last year, we had about 12 doctor visits @ $20 co-pay and maybe another $100 in other fees. That’s about $4000 out of pocket. Did I get $4000 in benefits? Probably not. I would’ve been better not having insurance and just paying everything out of pocket.
But that’s not the purpose of insurance. The purpose is to cover me in the event of a catastrophic event – like a major accident or cancer. To ensure that I don’t go bankrupt as a result of such an occurance.
Well, Hank…I worked all my adult life as a nurse..now shouldn’t that entitle me to government health care benefits? I’ve also paid a lot in taxes…more than many working Americans..shouldn’t that entitle me to some benefits?
Why do YOUR think your service in the Navy is worth more than MY service in the hospitals and community?
I’d dare say I’ve contributed just as much to my country as you have!
And BTW, if you come down with cancer someday (God forbid), you won’t have to worry, YOUR government benrfits will pay for your care just fine…just be grateful you don’t have to deal with the “fair and efficient” health care companies. So, how many seriously ill patients you and Joyce treat at your clinic? Do any cancer treatment? Perform any bypass surgeries? Do any diabetes care? Have any patients with surgical complications? Could it be that your medical world may be a little more narrow than mine?
Well, let me educate you as someone who does work with seriously ill patients everyday, it’s not easy for them to always get the care they need if they have private insurance.
Seems to me chiropractic care may fall more in the “choice” than the necessary. And those who can choose probably have either the coverage or money to afford that choice.
Nut, so what if you pay $300 per month for your insurance…if you had a family of five..could you afford $1,500 per month?
The point is that health coverage is too expensive for the average working American. I can afford $300 per month, you can afford $300 per month…but my daughter who is married and raising two children can’t afford $1,200 per month for a health care policy. And she can’t afford to pay $5,000 per year out of pocket, either.
It’s time the system was made to be more fair, so that every person can have access to affordable health care in this country.
I can’t help but wonder what the number would be if illegal aliens and their offspring were excluded from the statistic?
Is this what you want by getting a NHC system like Great Britain?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7542718.stm
This is one of many different horror stories of their NHC system. You can easily find many others from their country as well as other countries who have the same system.
Have a medical problem and you are old? Too bad, we can’t help you because you are too old. It would be a waste of government money. Do you want to buy medication that will help your problem that isn’t provided by the NHCS? Sure go ahead, but we will drop you immediately because you are self-medicating.
How about your chance of recovery is slim. Same thing as above, they aren’t paying for the treatment for you.
Take a look at the problems our VA Hospitals and Military Hospitals are having. Do you think they can run the ones in the civilian sector any better? Can they run anything better? Look at our school systems as an example.
Fat Chance!
Hold on Mary, you’ll soon qualify for Medicare. I’m sure you’ll get all the care you deserve then!
Nunya–
In your case, “fat chance” sums it up perfectly.
*****
“This is a marathon, not a sprint,” Rep. Brenda Landwehr, R-Of Course, said.
Funny, why are running backwards then Brenda. Oh, yeah, now I remember, because your party is in power and you are one of the worst examples of a party of bad ideas.
Maybe if people just cancelled their HBO they could afford 400 /mo. health care like what your pal Wagle said . . .
The UK system is a mix of private and public health care. The latter is starved by reason of the fact the private for profit system syphons off the resources for those who can afford quick but not necessarily better care. There is a class system in play there that no party has ever actually came to grips with and it extends into education as well.Your accent can determine if you get a good job and people actually go to school to change or get an accent that will help their income! Other countries with universa,single payer coverage have the mantra of timely, affordable care based soley on need and not the ability to pay. Therefore elective surgery can be put on hold, but not needed care. I have family in the Great White North who are bewildered at the so-called waiting lists published by critics of their system. However there are anomolies. If you want a hip/knee replacement and are obese and not a good candidate for the procedure, you will wait until the weight gets down. Universal heath costs per capita is about half that of the US and therapy with life style changes are more readily suggested. You might want to see the article in the NY Times about excessive amounts of surgeries done in the US. One article claims 44% of by-pass surgeries are not needed. No system is perfect…
PeeMom….errrr, Mary,
The $300/mo IS for a family of five. You already know that.
Plus, Pee –
If you can afford cigarettes, cell phones, cable, internet…..
You can afford $5k/yr. The point is, they won’t.
Ahhhh….. good ol’ Captain America. Thank you for your comment. It means a great deal coming from a guy who thinks he is a dead comic book hero.
————-
Interesting… only 9 states have seen increases. That means the other 41 must have seen decreases in uninsured. It would be interesting to see the make up of the uninsured people here in Kansas as well as those in the other 49 states to see where the problem actually lies.
I wonder how many of these might have free tuition to those who are in our country illegally?
I wonder how many are those who are unemployed because of the silly energy policy of our Governor and those who actually think corn and wind can replace oil and coal?
Hey nut,
I have met both Mary and P-Mom. Both delightful people in person!
Mary is a neighbor and a dear friend. She’s a hard working and conservative but because of her loving, caring heart she thinks she’s a liberal! She’s actually more conservative than I am in her personal life. (always good for a beer on a hot day)
Political mom also is a little more conservative in her personal life than she would like to admit. She is polite and gracious in her demeanor and very easy to talk to in polite company. She is also pretty enough to be a republican!
I don’t mind him calling me Mary. I am a lot like Mary in a lot of ways, we get along very well. I adore her.
The only difference is that I’m ardently pro-choice and Mary is begrudgingly pro-choice…and only to a point.
The government subsidy, for those over 65, is, roughly $760.00 PER MONTH!
Mary
Group health insurance is “subsidized” insurance, in that the employer gets a tax deduction, for providing that benefit.
In fact, Group Health Insurance BEGAN as a tax shelter, and as a way around FDR’s “wage freeze” during WW2.
Mary
I pay my own premiums.
I turn 50 in December.
My premium is about $98.00 per month.
Mary
Medicare, Medicaid and the VA deny benefits, and deny claims, all the time.
In fact, Medicaid will even come after your ESTATE when you are dead, for a refund of what ever the State might have paid.
What kind of coverage do you get for $50/month Franklin?
How would imagine not very much. Do you have a $50K deductible?
And do not underestimate the effect of the fact that insurance companies take a 30% cut of Americans health care dollars for shuffling papers, denying benefits, and lobbying against health care reform.
DavidB
Posted August 31, 2008 at 5:47 pm | Permalink
And do not underestimate the effect of the fact that insurance companies take a 30% cut of Americans health care dollars for shuffling papers, denying benefits, and lobbying against health care reform.
————————-
And how much of a cut do you think our government will take for doing the same thing? And do you think they can do it in an efficient manner?
“Take a look at the problems our VA Hospitals and Military Hospitals are having. Do you think they can run the ones in the civilian sector any better? Can they run anything better? Look at our school systems as an example.”
The old “government can’t do anything right” and then we elect Republicans who prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Nunya, don’t you work for a government (i.e., educational) institution after your private one fired your sorry ass?
Capn, I think maybe you’re thinking about “nunyer”. This is obviously a different blogger.
Why is that obvious, Blaidd?
Blaidd
I said my age was about 50.
My PREMIUM is $98.00.
The insurance pays 100% of everything OVER $5,000.00 in a single year.
Also, a person in the 25% Federal Income Tax bracket, and, perhaps, 5% State (chart not in front of me) would have a 30% total TAX savings if an HSA were involved, so the net amount of the deductable, after tax savings, would be $3,500.00 IF I had claims my first year.
Of course, the vast majority do not see claims of that size every year, so it is a reasonable risk, that can pay off in a huge way, later on.
Mary
What, exactly, makes a TAX somehow better than a PREMIUM?
We will HAVE to pay, one way or the other.
By the way, libs, Obama is FAR closer to me, on health insurance, than he is to most of you.
Hillary went after Obama, and his “voluntary” plan, countless times.
This is one of the reasons Obama said that we might have to “garnish wages” of those who could afford insurance and would not buy it, for themselves. Obama said that in response to a Hillary criticism.
Obama takes huge amounts of money from insurance company executives.
Very little will change. We will see some things concerning “pre-existing conditions” and we wills see more tax incentives and, probably, higher subsidies for those who can not afford coverage.
However, on the question of health insurance, Obama has never proposed a true “single payer” plan like you libs, on this Blog, have been pushing.
It does not matter, at this point. Obama is a long long way from moving into the White House.
So Paul, you pay 100% plus 100 dollars a month- for absolutely nothing. That is major medical- not a healthcare plan.
That’s great for you since you’re healthy- just wait.
I suppose you’re hoping that holds out till you can get on medicare.
A tax would be better than a premium, you would get social benefit of a healthy society- and you would not need to pay in for other people’s medical plus your own. You would benefit.
I know you want to save your job but come on. You know how insurance works its a fraud.
If my husband should lose his job, I won’t be able to get insurance due to my health history.
Mary_Caruso
Posted August 31, 2008 at 1:00 pm | Permalink
=============================================
Mary do you know about KHIA and does it work?
The Kansas Health Insurance Association (KHIA) was created by the Kansas State Legislature to provide access to health insurance coverage to all residents of the state who are unable to obtain individual health insurance.
You may also apply through any Kansas licensed health insurance agent or broker. They are familiar with the KHIA program and can help you with enrollment questions and with comparisons of programs and premiums. KHIA will pay a $100.00 fee to agents for these services.
If at any time you have questions while completing the application, please contact our customer service department at 1-800-362-9290. You can also use this site to view additional information about the KHIA plans.
HOW TO CONTACT US
P.O. Box 1090
2015 16th Street
Great Bend, Kansas 67530
1.800.362.9290
pmom
Do the math.
I save a huge amount, in premiums.
I put a chunk of that savings into an HSA.
IF I have expense?
I can decide to pay those expenses out of the HSA, pretax,or I can pay with after tax funds.
It takes a very short period of time for the HSA savings to reach the deductable amount.
Insurance is NOT intended to pay the small expenses. Insurance is intended for the large expenses.
Franklin, I don’t think an HSA is the answer to the nation’s health care crisis. Not everyone can manage a plan like you propose.
Pmom
Read your post again.
I have HSA SAVINGS in excess of the deductable.
And my premium is still less than $100 a month, giving me the ability to save EVEN MORE into my HSA account.
Cash comming OUT of the HSA is tax FREE.
Cash going INTO the HSA is tax deductable.
There are TWO accounts, one an insurance plan, technically called a High Deductable Plan.
There is also an HSA. I hold mine with Intrust Bank. I have other Banks I could use, but Intrust is more convenient.
If you do not have the discipline to save?
Even then, this is a good deal.
Reduce your premiums with the High Deductable Insurance plan.
Charge health care expenses to your credit card.
Pay off your credit card by making payments into your HSA, and then with draw the money, out of the HSA, to pay off your credit card.
That gives you a deduction on such expenses!
pmom
OBAMA does not support what you, or Mary, propose.
You do not have a candidate this year.
pmom
It is NOT responsible to expect health insurance to pay every claim.
Health insurance is for the really big stuff.
Nationalized health care is what we need and it is what we will have.
This will be GOOD for the insurance companies.
Well, good in that the competition will compel them to better serve their customers.
Small expenses, such as…1,000 in lab and tests for one visit?
Yeah most americans can afford that NOT.
Listen carefully:
Hillary BLASTED Obama since Obama did not have a “universal coverage” plan.
Obama is only pushing a “voluntary plan” for those who do not have insurance at work or on their own.
On insurance matters, Obama is far more conservative, so far, than any of you liberal Bloggers.
Its a mess Franklin. Just figure it out already- what we have now is an abysmal failure, thanks to republicans. That was the whole point in this to begin with- to provide less care for profit. Nixon said so himself. How can you sit here and defend it when we have the evidence for what it was intended? We have evidence from those testifying before congress.
I know you know the truth. And you will continue to defend your own interests.
pmom
You should have that money set aside, in advance.
Yes there are some who can not afford it and could not plan for it. That is where Medicaid comes in.
However, the vast majority of cases can be handled with market solutions.
Those who REFUSE to take advantage of such solutions, even though they can afford to do some planning?
Obama said, very clearly, that we should “garnish” the wages of those who refused to join, on their own.
“However, the vast majority of cases can be handled with market solutions.”
Franklin, I don’t think your vaunted “market” can cure everything.
I disagree with Krugman, on many points — but Krugman is a “progressive” and he spells out the differences he sees:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?ex=1359867600&en=0a79062d32c378c9&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
Franklin believes what he posts to be true, therefore it is!! Yea, sure, ight…
Good thing LAW isnt decided that way!!
:roll:
I am aware that I have no candidate. I am hoping that Obama will change his mind once he studies up as much as Hillary has.
Barack Obama will only be in the Executive branch private insurance salesman Franklin paulie.
He cannot save you from the inevitable future.
Health care is going to be legislated a basic right in this country.
BJ
You are dreaming.
It won’t happen.
Buy your own or go without.
Those are your choices.
Besides, Obama is not likely to win.
Chas
Did you read the Krugman post?
Krugman was a Hillary supporter, and on the differences between Hillary and Obama, Krugman largely agrees with me.
“Chas” posted –
“Franklin believes what he posts to be true….”
No he doesn’t.
“Franklin” thinks he’s doing some high-level research on behalf of the Republic Party. He cuts-and-posts from wing-nut blogs and parrots talk radio bloviators.
For example, none of the legitimate (and I use the term loosely) Republic Party operatives apparently thought there was credibility or plausibility, or even sanity connected with “Franklin’s” attempts to portray Barack Obama “44% Arab.”
His latest attempt to portray Obama as some kind of 40-years-later Weatherman “terrorist” is just as absurd; just as politically tone deaf. But desperate times make for desperate actions.
It’s probably the wrong time of year to bilk senior citizens out of their money selling Monopoly money paper promises based on fears of “going to the nursing home! And, by the way, this policy pays $10-a-day for your nursing home care.” So “Franklin” has a lot of time on his hands to cut-and-post his versions of “proof” Barack Obama was seen once eating a pickled beet, and beets are the main ingredient of borscht, and borscht is a Russian soup which PROVES Obama is Putin’s puppet.
There are probably some CONs who might entertain some of “Franklin’s” wild-eyed fantasies.
But, “Chas.” Please, please don’t believe for a minute that “Franklin believes what he posts to be true.”
No one is that stupid. Even “Franklin.”
Chas
Actually, some laws specifically DO work that way.
Slander or libel against a private citizen — you do not have to prove that the person knew it was false, in order to win. You only have to prove that it was false, thats it.
Slander or libel against a “public figure” — you MUST prove that the person who said it or wrote it KNEW it was false, when they made the statement.
In my opinion, all of us who enter into this Blog are “public figures” to the extent that we have voluntarily entered into public debate. Some of us, more than others, fit the “public figure” definition.
If the courts were to hold that I am Public Figure, the courts would force me to prove that those who insult me with falsehoods knew that those things they said were not true.
That is easy to do, on a blog, with dates and times and facts and documents posted.
Liberal journalists and liberal broadcastors have always had a huge enfluence on such laws, due to free speech concerns.
My views, therefore, are pretty much in keeping with the legal departments off all of the major media outlets in America.
If you think it is true, when you say it, you are safe, where a “public figure” is concerned. A publid figure must prove malice, a private citizen does not have to prove malice.
Where a “private citizen” is concerned, you better make darn sure it is true.
I make it a point, therefore, never to make negative statements about private citizens.
Politicians, by definition, are public figures.
In my opinion, so are all of us on this Blog.
“Buy your own or go without.
Those are your choices.”
Tell 47 million and growing that there Franklin.
Your party is on the retreat everywhere. You go ahead and sell that those without the money should suffer and die.
Or put their faith and trust in….you.
Nope, I haven’t been fired from any job and there is nothing sorry about my Ass so you must be confused about things between the comic book world and the real world.
Nor did I start calling people names or insulting them because your opinions differ with mine. But I either chose to ignore them or I can hold my own with them if I need to Captain Dead Comic Book Super Hero.
As for political party differences, I really don’t think any party has anything up on the other, do you? Neither of them have proven they can run anything worth a dang. The republicans in the white house or the democrats in the congress. Look at what both parties have done to our economy and our gas prices. Seriously, what have either of them done worth a damn and you think you want to turn them lose with your health?
The only ones who will benefit will be the ones who are benefiting now, the ones who remain constantly on welfare or incarcerated. Those of us who work will continue to pay for medical for them. As for medical for EVERYONE, who do you think that money will come from? Again, those who work and they will be the ones who lose in the long run.
I have family and friends living in Canada and England and they are not thrilled with the quality of medical care afforded to them at all. One in Canada was shipped to the states to have her baby because they didn’t have any beds for her in her own country. This is a regular occurrence in Canada because of the lack of qualified doctors.
And as for emergency room visits in England, they make you wait outside in your car or in an ambulance until they can ‘fit you in’ because they can’t make the national required patient must be seen time otherwise.
But I am sure you remember the different news stories the MSM has put out about various VA Hospitals as well as a couple of the major military hospitals in the States being in very bad condition due to mold, infestations, and other problems. Just like many of the government run hospitals in Great Britain.
Remember the saying we learned as kids “The grass looks greener on the other side of the fence?” Maybe this is what you are seeing.
“OBAMA STILL SMOKES!”
To know this, Paul must have remote viewing. No wonder he can see so many “truths” everyone else misses. It must be a burden to be so “all seeing.” :)
“StevenEDavis” –
Ol’ “Franklin” probably doesn’t fool himself into thinking he’s “all seeing.”
But he think he’s doing some kind of service for the Republic Party by reporting back the results of his cut-and-posts to this forum.
“They didn’t buy the ‘Obama is 44% Arab’ claim but I got some action on the ‘Obama’s mother was a hippy’ thread.”
I can’t imagine the Republic Party really has enough extra cash to compensate “Franklin” for such reports, but they’ve paid for worse information. Either way, it apparently pays “Franklin” better than he can make by selling worthless insurance to the elderly. That’s why he’s here.
And he probably tosses and turns at night in fear that three billy goats might approach his bridge.
http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/windowslivewritersmokeemifyougotem-12634obama-smoking2.png
Proof!
Ok, 2 am humor is moderate at best. But here’s a better shot at proof:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/obama-admits-sm.html
Coupla months old, but still applicable.
Oh my God, Obama has smoked cigarettes in the last few months according to a blog that GolfGut can find. I think it more likely that he whiffed some cocaine off of GG’s ample butt… Prove me wrong! A logical challenge to PF Rosell.
You clowns are just too funny! :)
The Democrat Party wants to make health care, and health insurance, an issue.
The Democrat Party is primarily responsible for smoking bans.
The Democrat Party has demonized smoking.
The Democrat Party has come up with taxes and lawsuits and other plans, to cut back on smoking and to raise revenue to pay for “health care”.
Obama, on the other hand, has been “packaged” by David Axelrod to be a pure, clean, “messiah” who will “come down from the Heavens” to solve all of our problems.
The irony is, Obama is in a cloud of his own cigarette smoke, not a cloud from Heaven!
Come on, Obama knows his smoking habit will hurt him in the election, so he tries to hide it, like Obama tries to hide much of his life from us.
nunya123: I’ve had reason to take my wife to emergency wards in two UK hospitals, one in Glasgow and few weeks later London. The first was to get a prescription for meds.we had lost, which took about 45 minutes. We then went to a “chemist” who filled it, charging for the dispensing but not the drug. In London about 2 hrs. was needed for a complete check-up and advice about what to do when we got home, with no charges at all. I hear of these horror stories and no doubt some are true, but not indicative but then there are horror stories in every system. Ask a Brit if they want to get rid of or try improve on what they got. Like most folks everywhere, they want to improvements.
nunya123: About the Canadian reference….bullshit! If maternity wards are full in a small town like Fort Erie, Ontario, Buffalo across the river, takes the over flow, same with Windsor and Detroit, it is part of their business plan. Their healh insurance covers it, including transportation across the border. I guess there is a shortage of qualified Firefighters in this country because Firefighters in Quebec respond to fires in upstate Vermont and New York. Since 9/11, a few firetrucks were held at the border because a French name was on some damn list. Must be true with forest fires too, because Canadians and Americans fight them together, in both countries but mostly they come south, even to California! Seems they got better Water Bombers. I visit Toronto a lot (daughter and son-in-law live there), and they just shake their heads at your kind of post. Get real, your type of misinformation is worse than lies. Jeez, I think this is the first time I ever got angry on a blog…. you perpetuate the “Ugly American Myth”
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Franklin
Posted September 1, 2008 at 10:33 am | Permalink
The Democrat Party wants to make health care, and health insurance, an issue.
The Democrat Party is primarily responsible for smoking bans.
The Democrat Party has demonized smoking.
The Democrat Party has come up with taxes and lawsuits and other plans, to cut back on smoking and to raise revenue to pay for “health care”.
Obama, on the other hand, has been “packaged” by David Axelrod to be a pure, clean, “messiah” who will “come down from the Heavens” to solve all of our problems.
The irony is, Obama is in a cloud of his own cigarette smoke, not a cloud from Heaven!
Come on, Obama knows his smoking habit will hurt him in the election, so he tries to hide it, like Obama tries to hide much of his life from us.
=================================================
Him got Wango logic, dude. Him wear mask to hide Wango face. Him know if Wango face recognized, Wango logic say him returned to sender.
“Come on, Obama knows his smoking habit will hurt him in the election, so he tries to hide it, like Obama tries to hide much of his life from us.”
I’m still very impressed by Paul F. Rosell’s remote viewing Extra Sensory Perception (ESP). The man has a gift or a curse (hallucinations). I’ll let rational people decide. For me, it is not difficult decision.
9,737,000 non-US Citizens ARE INCLUDED in the US Census data total that claims 45,657,000 are uninsured.
That leaves just 35,920,000 Americans without insurance.
253,449,000 HAVE insurance!
That means, 86% of all Americans HAVE INSURANCE!
Don’t screw up our health care system for all Americans, to take care of the 14% who don’t. Just help the 14% get coverage, IF they want it.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
completely enjoyed bumping into this thread.