Friday’s Eagle had a letter from Special Olympics Kansas decrying the new movie “Tropic Thunder” for “retard” jokes and calling for a boycott.
Here is Slate movie critic Dana Stevens’ response to a reader about the controversy: “You hold the view that the movie’s use of what advocacy groups are calling “the R-word” isn’t targeting people with disabilities; they hold the view that it is. But if the discussion is to go forward, shouldn’t everyone at least be willing to see the movie with an open mind toward the other side?”
She’s right that pre-emptive criticisms of movies often fail to judge the offending material in context.
One example: Critics who complain about the “racist” use of the “N-word” in Twain’s “Huckleberry Finn” miss the author’s ironic use of the word and his larger point about its offensiveness and racism.
That artistic context may be utterly lacking in “Tropic Thunder.” I don’t know — I haven’t seen the movie.
But it’s satire. And as Stevens notes, “Satire is a notoriously difficult thing to police.”
64 Comments
Yeah, you can hide a lot of things with satire, however, if you have a supercilious attitude about it off the set and out of the theater, then it no longer is “protected” under the blanket of satire.
The young and the immature will repeat often and without consequence the word “retard” and they already do from what my ears tell me.
Having contact with some fine young mentally challenged students when I was a substitute teacher was indeed my privilege. After one gets over the veneer of difference, you find they are just people, with the same emotions, needs and wants as anyone else.
Oh and yes, these kids do hear the comments from other students and adults the word “retard” and it affects them emotionally and very deeply.
I’ve seen many movies in which people used the word. I see it as a valuable insult, such as when you have to give your order three times to a McDonald’s clerk who hasn’t been trained to listen. We use it here all the time, as in F-tard. True, there is no use hurting people with meaningless cruelty, but labeling people with such words as “autistic” or “developmentally disabled” has the same potential to hurt. At least “tard” can be used affectionately.
Seems like everybody is looking for an excuse to be offended. At some point it becomes a First Amendment issue, IMHO. Using the N-word or tying a noose or saying retard may be bad taste, but it shouldn’t be a legal issue.
OK XXX took my point, I often see things that are covered by “some times a cigar is nothing more than a cigar”. From what I heard of the movie its about a group of actors doing basically a “Rambo” type movie whom end up fighting a drug lord whom mistakenly thinks they are real soldiers sent to stop him. Back to the topic, it is the intent of the use of a word where the real offense is not the word.
My response to this issue is ambigious.
I saw this movie, and it is very funny (even funnier than advertised) with incredible performances by Downey and another actor (I won’t spoil it by telling you who it is, you should have the privlege of spotting him). The part of the movie Chris Hahn takes issue with is a long discussion about actors playing people with developmental disabilities, where the “R-word” is used as as an adjective and verb. Keep in mind, this is a discussion between a very dim action movie actor and a method actor who at the moment is an Australian channeling a black character, which also could be considered offensive. The fact of the matter is, the comedy is funny because the characters are so clearly behaving inappropriately. They are mocking offensiveness, and when offensiveness is mocked, the people most apt to get the joke are those who know that the offensiveness being mocked IS offensive.
That being said, I think Hahn draws attention to an important issue. The R-word is fully as offensive as the N-word as a pejorative term (and I strongly, strongly disagree with beber’s claim that it is a “valuable” insult, it is as offensive to use as a general insult as the N-word, which was once used the same way). I have worked with people with developmental disabilities for over two decades, and every one of them is a person with unique strengths and weaknesses, just like anyone else. I also have the personal experience of being on the other side of the term. I have an auditory processing deficit (which I now compensate for) which resulted in me being in a special education classroom when I was very young. I remember being called, along with my classmates, a “retard” by kids who meant it. Believe me, it hurts.
I wouldn’t necessarily advocate boycotting Tropic Thunder, but I would advocate reading Chris Hahn’s letter before you see the movie to put the offending scene in context. Regular made some very good points in his lucid opening post.
In another era, Archie Bunker recited standard CONservative boilerplate and most of the world realized it for the absurdity it was. And most CONs tuned in without getting the joke.
Today, if Steven Colbert didn’t perform in front of a live audience, he’d be doing his show on the Faux Noise Channel.
In the context of the film a shallow, ignorant character uses a shallow, ignorant term. He is only a role model if you are a shallow, ignorant person.
Its wrong period. Imagine if I went around telling everyone to stop acting like an ‘n’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoqaNG0Ozqc
DO watch this.
Perhaps it’ll wake you people up who think that the word is innocent. It is a way to slam someone who you think is acting like the mentally retarded.
we’re not discussing the LEGALITY of using the word XXX and you know it. We’re discussing the mundane insulting way that we use the word that is a reference to people who should not be made fun of.
LOVING way Beber? No. And a diagnosis is a way to define the needs of that person, it isn’t damaging to them to diagnose, but rather put a label on how to treat them based on their symptoms. Is being diabetic hurtful to someone?
Do we go around calling people ‘etics” as a slam?
There are a whole lot of Carlos Mencia followers out there, and he is the worst at trying to legitimize the use of teasing people by comparing them to the mentally retarded. Its not funny.
The word “retard” hurts.
Granted, I use words like “stupid” — but stupid refers to an act, most of the time, not a person.
I also use the word “idiot” more than I should.
There, I probably have no excuse.
However, I have always tried to avoid the word “retard” — it just is not a nice or polite thing to say.
Actually, just like the “N” word, “Retard” says more about the person SAYING the word, than it does about the person being insulted.
Having said that, I fully realize that the “word” is in play. It would be stupid to remove common words, even if offensive, from movie and TV scripts, by some type of government mandate or citizen boycott threat.
I watched a deaf brother die of a brain tumor.
He at times had to deal with ignorance, insults and bullying.
I now try my best to teach my severely disabled grand daughter how to walk. She is stong enough, but lacks a sense of balance, perhaps vertigo or some inner ear problem. She will be 6 in February.
My daughter thinks I am a “wimp” when it comes to force feeding her. She eats most of her food through a tube in her stomach, at night. We are trying to get her to take food through the mouth but she does not like it.
However, I am no “wimp” when it comes to making her walk. Progress is slow. I like to show her to people who don’t see her every day, since they NOTICE the progress that we are making.
The doctors told us 5 years ago that she would never be able to sit up, on her own. Of course, 5 and a half years ago, they released her to “Hospice Care” so — what do those “idiots” know, huh? lol.
“Forrest Gump” was a movie about courage, honesty and loyalty.
“Forrest Gump” was NOT a movie that made fun of mental retardation.
If you do not understand this point, then YOU have a serious problem.
We do not require ignorant jerks to wear signs that announce their ignorance.
Instead, we allow the use of words like “retard” so that people with class and manors can pick and choose our friends more intelligently.
Pee,
On this board, I have to say, you’re my favorite retard.
Re: KsGolfnut
DNFTT
Stupid is as stupid does.
It is a MOVIE, people…get over yourselves. It is not official foreign policy, it is not being taught in schools, and it is not mandatory viewing for the population.
It is a MOVIE…temporary entertainment and a diversion, not a socially significant movement.
I must totally agree with XXX on this one…seems like some people are just looking for an opportunity to be offended.
I’m offended by the violence depicted towards women as entertainment in Hollywood, but as long as there’s money to be made and there are people willing to pay money to see that, it won’t change. Only when our societal values change will we see positive changes in the entertainment industry. Money is god in this country.
Retard also means to set back, as in, “The retarded Republican leadership has plans to retard the Democrats plans to advance the nations renewable energy solutions.”
“retard” the spark.
“I watched a deaf brother die of a brain tumor.
He at times had to deal with ignorance, insults and bullying.” — Franklin
How did he know he was being insulted?
All righttards have prsonal experiences appropriate to the subject. Ever notice that?
beber
You truly are a jerk.
You are ignorant by choice.
You were not BORN that way.
You have noone to blame but yourself.
Not God.
Not nature.
Not some accident.
YOU are ignorant by choice.
Remember when “imbecile”, “idiot” and “cretin” were scientific words for various degrees of retardation? We were taught the words in seventh-grade health. Now, they are merely descriptors for the right wing of the Republican Party. Sometimes political correctness is a good thing.
beber
You are clear proof that the Democrat Party is full of hate filled, ignorant jerks.
Yes, there are Republican jerks, as well.
However, it is YOUR party that tries to paint Republicans as judgemental and insensitive.
YOU are proof that many in the Democrat Party have big mouths and very little heart.
In a new and improved, politically correct world, the term is “mentally challenged”. So the use of the word retard is open territory nowadays.
I just saw the trailer for Tropic Thunder last night, looks hilarious.
Sounds like the Thought Police need to teach a little Newspeak.
A lot of the same people on here, that find the offensive, don’t mind making unnaturally retarded and maimed Iraqi kids.
Big talk “retard’s”. Go pray about it.
Political_mama
Posted August 17, 2008 at 10:38 am | Permalink
we’re not discussing the LEGALITY of using the word XXX and you know it.
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PM, you’re one of the worst. You take offense at every opportunity. People like you are ready to have a hissy-fit at every turn. You need to get a life.
Tard.
retard can also mean “to tax” —
take that, libs!
The Editors are Retarded.
Frankin, just as Beber does not represent the left on this issue, Testicle doesn’t represent the right.
Ever notice that most of the disabled community is on the left? There is a reason for that.
I’m saying, unless you live with the results of the word ‘retard’ you just don’t get why it is so offensive. I’m sure nobody watched the video that I put up, and that’s a shame. You all could learn to be more kind of you chose to.
Until then, I’ll side with Paul on this matter. It shows more about you than it does about those you are bullying.
How we are offended by things often depends on our particular circumstance.
I don’t know whether you know it or not X. But political mama has an autistic child. My OWN son was pigeon holed by the school system as “special ed”.
I am not bothered by this movie as I have not seen it. Too, I don’t tend to join the pc police and jump on that bandwagon.
But it is said that sticks and stones can break bones but words hurt worse than anything.
Just for me, I try not to use words that hurt people over things they have no power over.
XXX its not my fault you can’t follow the discussion.
I’ve seen the folk’s on the “right” talk trash on the way John Kerry looks, calling him “Lurch” and I’ve seen the left making fun of “Old melanoma head”. Is there a big difference in doing that than saying the word “retard”?
You people??…sheeeeeeit.
Retard’s.
And really if you can’t insult someone without using the word, what does that say about your mental ability? The best way to insult someone’s intelligence? Do it colorfully.
“retard can also mean “to tax” — Franklin.
The word you seek is “regressive.”
I have a teenager so I am aware of the words kids use to dis(respect) on each other.
The n word is MUCH less used than when I was a kid. That’s progress.
My son sometimes uses the words retarded or gay as insults. This is not allowed as far as I am concerned.
It’s more tone of voice and manner than the words you use in a verbal lashing.
I’d like to see us use people’s names as insults. Start with people like bush and cheney.
Like Michael Bishop, Bluejay?
To this day, when a player fumbles trying to do too much in a big game, at times the sportscaster chants “Michael Bishop, Michael Bishop.” I think it’s a good thing myself.
If I remember correctly, and I do admit to being on the old side, the word “retarded” was perfectly acceptable as a definition of what we now call “mentally challenged”. Back then it was “mentally retarded”, wasn’t it? “Retarded” meaning “set back”.
As I understand it, the movie in question was making fun of those who make fun of others. That may be the only way some people can understand. Then again, those who NEED to understand probably never get it. A bit retarded in that, aren’t they?
Wasn’t it nicer to use the term “retarded” than saying a person was dumb? Because that’s the way I remember it until I was taught that “retarded” was the correct term. But then again, I’m old. I remember having it explained to me when seeing a group of kids from the Institute of Logapedics. I was also taught never to stare. A friend of my mother’s was a foster caregiver for several children who were both physically and mentally challenged and learned they were people just like me. Perhaps our political correctness has tipped in the direction of opposite extremes.
Really, P_mama, it’s time to lighten up. I have never heard “autistic” used as a derogatory term, anymore than I’ve heard “hyperactive” used in that way.
“Franklin”, I’ll keep your little granddaughter in my thoughts and prayers. I’m sure with your positive attitude, she will improve, but whatever happens, she will remain the light of your life. Blessings on you both.
Retard means behind, the way advance means ahead. In engine timing, the spark can be advanced or retarded.
As to people, retarded IS the correct medical term.
Words like retarded, obese, and short all mean something. Euphanisms like challenged, special-needs, and gifted do not. They all hint around at what somebody is trying to really say.
I am really getting tired of the politically-correct crowd, and their mealy-mouthy vocabulary.
Pre
Thanks a bunch.
She is my purpose in life, in many ways.
Marty
I am no fan of political correctness, either, but I am a big fan of polite conversation and manors.
My grand daughter IS mentally retarded. I take no offense if you use that word. She also has autistic tendencies. She also can not walk without holding my hand. Call her retarded, lame or an “autie” and I take no offense, if done to diagnose or explain her condition.
If done in cruelty, or to tease? Well, then you will have some real trouble with me.
The word “retard” is much like the “N” word — it never shows any class or manors to use such a term.
But, if your intent is to make a character look stupid or classless? Then have that charcter use such offensive language and I will pick up on that intent right away.
This whole discussion is so gay. /sarcasm off
I think it’s good to consider the implications of language, and thus of ideas, but it’s easy to get carried away. What we’re dealing with here, from what I gather, are less-than-admirable characters saying things that might offend. The problems comes when you start thinking the offense resides within the words themselves.
Words outside the proper context can mean something quite different, or nothing at all, thus judging the words themselves is absurd. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
People are free to boycott if they wish. Some people will see the movie anyway. Life will go on.
P.S. By the way, while it’s best to see the movie in question before judging it, I can’t say that’s always the case. When, e.g., you have an extraordinarily well-publicized movie like “Expelled,” and the withering criticisms are not denied by anyone, you can figure out pretty quick whether it’s worth your time.
On the other hand, you have examples like “Ishtar”–another movie I haven’t seen–which was widely panned but is now regarded by many as much better than it was portrayed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF6E3o_NzGo
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Political_mama
Posted August 17, 2008 at 12:50 pm | Permalink
XXX its not my fault you can’t follow the discussion.
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I follow the discussion just fine, thanks. My point is, almost any word can be insulting to someone at the rate we’re going. I myself have been a victim of this kind of crap. I was almost fired once for saying I could be bribed with cookies. It was deemed a sexually inappropriate comment. The logic behind that is too tortured to explain. So yes, I’m totally not sympathetic about word usage.
I’ll say it again. So many people are just looking for something to be offended about.
Tard
* As director of communications, I was asked to prepare a memo reviewing our company’s training programs and materials. In the body of the memo one of the sentences mentioned the “pedagogical approach” used by one of the training manuals. The day after I routed the memo to the executive committee, I was called into the HR Director’s office, and was told that the executive VP wanted me out of the building by lunch. When I asked why, I was told that she wouldn’t stand for “perverts” (pedophiles?) working in her company. Finally he showed me her copy of the memo, with her demand that I be fired, with the word “pedagogical” circled in red. The HR Manager was fairly reasonable, and once he looked the word up in his dictionary and made a copy of the definition to send to my boss, he told me not to worry. He would take care of it. Two days later a memo to the entire staff came out, directing us that no words which could not be found in the local Sunday newspaper could be used in company memos. A month later, I resigned. In accordance with company policy, I created my resignation letter by pasting words together from the Sunday paper. (Taco Bell Corporation)
http://www.jokesunlimited.com/jokes/quotes_from_companies.html
Found on the Urban Dictionary the offensive meaning of “cookie” (you probably won’t find it anywhere else). But to say you “can be bribed with (blank)s” doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense, particularly since the more commonly employed term for that desire employs the singular form of (blank).
How ridiculous.
Mental retardation is a legitimate diagnosis..there is nothing wrong with saying “the R word” when talking about a person with a low IQ. There are 3 levels: mild, moderate, and profound.
“it never shows any class or manors to use such a term.” — Franklin
Intentional pun or Freudian slip?
Having just returned from seeing the movie, I can say, in my opinion, the retard sequence was hilarious.
manors manners so what beber?
I can correct my spelling.
You, however, seem to enjoy just being wrong.
Kudos to XXX. It is just a movie and a comedy at that. Too many folks out there looking to be offended about ANYTHING!
Agnatha: Good job in not spoiling the surprise actor in the movie. He was hilarious! The first time or two he appeared I assumed it was Ben Stiller in full body costume but I quickly figured it out. His nose, teeth, and profile are obvious if you are really paying attention. I heard the couple in front of me whisper who they suspected he was and for the people who left the theater before the credits rolled, I guess you’ll hear about it from the rest of us. 4 1/2 STARS!
p.s. There is plenty of room for the military, gays, blacks, asians, and actors to be offended if they feel the need to jump on the bandwagon. It is a very equal opportunity offensive movie!
Ian?
XXX if Ian sides with you- I guess that’s all the validation I need.
I will not fckin lighten up, to those in the disabled community, tard and retard are just as offensive as being called an “n” word.
So to the ones who are defending this practice, FU.
It pizzes me off to no end that you won’t freaking get it.
Pmom is right on this one.
I try hard to explain to people who do not get it:
We work hard, all the time, for the simple victories in life:
Will she ever walk without help?
Will she ever speak?
Will she ever be potty trained?
Then, we go out for a social event and people at the table are making jokes, using the word “retard”??
We know our kids won’t ever be on the honor roll or in the “real” Olympics.
We get it, ok?
How can you be so cruel as to gain enjoyment in our suffering?
How can you be so heartless as to dismiss the hard work we have done, for our little victories in the lives of these little ones?
I am not looking to be offended.
I simply wish to be respected, not made fun of.
You are making fun of parents and grandparents as well as the mentally retarded, when you use words like “tard” and “retard” — you are telling us that we are wasting our time, aren’t you?
Do not expect us to be nice to you, when you have that attitude.
I see the ‘N’ word referenced quite a bit here. OK here we go…
1) If it is so offensive, why is it so prominent in Rap music[sic]?
2) Why did Imus get fired over ‘Nappy headed hoe’ and Jackson got a free pass when he dropped the ‘N’ bomb on Obama?
3) Why is the word so prevalent in common dialog amongst certain groups of individuals?
P_Mom offends me by taing the ‘woman’s right to choose’ over the life of a child.
Franklin offends me because of his tortured blindness to his party’s demise.
BlueJay offends me because of his Marxist attitude.
Many are offended by the same. Should these three posters be banned? Of course not.
If the movie offends you because they have a segment that uses the ‘R’ word, don’t go see it. Cover your ears during that scene.
If you are going to rail against the ‘R’ word, then why aren’t you railing against the ‘N’ word?
Freedom and Liberty.
Then, we go out for a social event and people at the table are making jokes, using the word “retard”??
Stop going there.
There are a whole lot of Carlos Mencia followers out there, and he is the worst at trying to legitimize the use of teasing people by comparing them to the mentally retarded. Its not funny.
Don’t watch him.
“I will not fckin lighten up, to those in the disabled community, tard and retard are just as offensive as being called an “n” word.”
This from the gal who calls people names on this blog? Sounds hollow to me.
“Thunder” evidently boasts a hilarious performance by the brilliant Robert Downey, Jr (who is featured on the latest Rolling Stone cover). I haven’t seen this film, though. Its subject line doesn’t interest me; however, I must agree that those with developmental disabilities should not be ridiculed.
Thirty years ago, I faced scorn and derision every f–king day, merely because a nervous breakdown had affected my speech. People thought I was retarded, but I wasn’t. And here’s the really icky part: My reasoning and intellect weren’t affected, so I was acutely aware of this ridicule. And it just about sucked the s–t out of everything and everyone. I hated it. (Hint: it didn’t do a whole lot for my self-esteem.)
Ben Stiller is a really nice guy, from what I can discern. I’m sure he didn’t mean to hurt anyone. I’d probably go see the film if: 1) the storyline interested me; and 2) Robert Downey, Jr.’s incomprehensible interview in the latest “Rolling Stone” didn’t leave my cerebellum a-swirlin.’
I was hoping for a surfeit of sage, savvy insights from the erstwhile opioid den-master. But I wasn’t inspired – or uninspired, either. I just didn’t learn much. I mean, s–t: If I was makin’ $12 MIL per flickiepoo, I’d try to think of something brilliant to impart on the unwashed masses.
The dude’s come back from the abject hell of heroin addiction – you’d think he’d have something warm and witty and wise to spew forth.
But he didn’t.
This discussion is just plain dumb.
Did I offend anyone?
Yes Amway, in this United States Socialist Wimps of America, I’m sure you offended someone.
Too bad.
This discussion is just plain dumb.
Not really. At the risk of being gauche, anytime are ideas are expressed, it’s possible to offend, and words can be used to hurt, and frequently. By itself, criticism is quite a healthy thing.
However, since movies are already subject to arbitrary censorship (courtesy of the deal Jack Valenti made, rest his soul, the twit), I get uncomfortable anytime someone says “you can’t say that!” as it might have a greater effect than merely expressing disapproval.
I DO hold the N word in the same contempt.
And enema, is the word offensive to…enemas? I don’t think so.
For the record,
I am not suggesting any support for censorship.
I am simply asking for people to think about what they are saying. Ask if the price for the word you want to use is worth it.
Make no mistake, you will be judged, negatively, for the use of certain words.
Your right to use them, my right to judge such use.
In the artistic enviroment, I can see where it might fit, for any character to use any offensive word.
Shut up cracker.
As in “paulie” lol.
My girlfriend has called me that for a few years now.
Does not bother me.
Don’t get called “cracker” much, my skin is not really white, more tan.
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Political_mama
Posted August 18, 2008 at 8:22 am | Permalink
Ian?
XXX if Ian sides with you- I guess that’s all the validation I need.
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Easy PM, I’m pretty sure there’s more than one santiago in the world.
You’re a professional victim and a whiner. Always looking for sympathy; never doing anything on your own to improve your sorry lot in life.
WOW! This is whole thing is getting silly, ridiculous, almost retarded in a way. Are you crazies going to be outside of The Cotillion protesting Carlos Mencia? I would if I were you unless “Something About Mary” is playing as a midnite movie somewhere in town.