double sigh

I do appreciate your words and your sentiment.

The destruction wrought by NCLB will be felt for generations to come (sigh. . . )>

This is reason #1 for School Vouchers, let the parents CHOOSE which schools their kids attend. Enpower the parents to hold the schools ACCOUNTABLE, through Parental Choice.

Ya Libs are all about Choice, aren’t you?
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 20, 2008 at 10:52 am | Permalink

Obviously 39% more spending over 4 years WASN’T ENOUGH!

Please, oh please, throw MORE MONEY at solving our Public Edukation problem!

They need at least 390% more money over the next 4 years, or God knows how stupider the kids will get.
====================================================
Well, max, not all people can send their kids to voucher schools, so other than slamming the system, how about using that brilliant mind of yours and come up with a PRACTICAL solution to the public education problem.

Why test scores? Graduation rates? (both of which are involved, BTW, in determining AYP). Because, as inadequate as they are in ascertaining “success”, they’re easily obtained, and something for people to look at without any need to consider all the other complex and simple variables that got into an adequate measure of educational success. Plus, it allows easy politicization of the whole question of educational success.

To my thinking, there is no “silver bullet” out there; I think that the “reforms” that happened in the 1920s and 30s were an attempt to find it, and the continued adherence to that model for far too long has contributed to the current malaise that is K-12 education, private or public.

I’ll give an example of a couple of my questions:

1) It is reported that the proceeds of the bond issue, as proposed, will among other things be used to construct two new high schools, both of KSHSAA class 5-A size; both are to have football stadiums. Why, now, build one football stadium for each new high school, departing from past practice?

2) The proceeds will also be used, in part, to build nine practice gyms, one at each middle school; why is that? Is there insufficient room in the existing gyms to hold full Physical Education classes for the middle schools during the regular school day? To what extent will the general student body benefit from the proposed practice gyms?

3) To what extent will the use of the proceeds from the proposed bond issue to improve fine arts facilities and auditoriums benefit the student body as a whole? Is there not enough suitable room in the schools for the music, drama, etc., classes to be held now? Are the auditoriums so undersized or in such a bad state of repair that the same cannot now be used for all school assemblies, for example.

4) It has been reported that many tracks in the district are antiquated, and need to be replaced. The proceeds from the bond issue will be used, again in part, for this purpose. Are the tracks in such poor shape that the same are not safe for general use in P.E. classes? Is it necessary to build “competition suitable” tracks at each school?

5) One of the points to be made in promoting passage of the proposed bond issue is that, under current school finance law, the state will pay 25% of the costs. Recently, Speaker Neufeld has indicated that projected economic shortfalls will cause the legislature to review K-12 finance issues. What happens to the projects being proposed if the current law is changed such that the 25% is not available in the future?

There are many more issues on my mind, and on the minds of the organized opponents (none of whom I know either) that have been asked, but not answered. I think that in order for the bond issue to succeed, there should be answers provided so the same may be considered by the voters pre-election. And, Linda, the results of the latest assessments should also be made public ASAP (as well as district performance on the ACT and SAT).

For a while, it was a “crisis” that so many kids dropped out of school. So local school board set up policies that increased graduation rates… except; that led to kid getting “social promotions” so they could stay with their friends and classmates.

And those “social promotions” led to a a lot of “graduates” who got a diploma without being able to balance a checkbook.

So then — and not without a rational basis — people started expecting someone who passed the 4th Grade might be able to perform on a 4th Grade level. So if you flunked 4th Grade arithmetic you were held back from their friends and classmates and, frequently dropped out.

Since I was in 4th Grade and never quite got the point of long division, I’ve taken all sorts of achievement and aptitude tests, SATs, entrance exams. When I was in 2nd Grade the tests showed I read at a 10th Grade level and wasn’t all that good at math.

When I was in 5th Grade I probably would have been better served had I been taking high school literature and 3rd grade math.

Which brings me to the point:

Test scores test what?

Teachers complain that they’re forced by NCLB to teach-to-the-test.

Kids who simply aren’t that bright, who will never find a cure for cancer or develop a flying car, can learn a lot that might give them a foundation for building a life and livelihood with basic understanding of language and math and culture.

I suspect there are many kids who are (okay, I’ll use the word) retarded by the process that assumes if you’re 8 years old you should be in the 3rd Grade.

I’d get rid of GRADE schools, and grade schooling.

I don’t care what happens to (or is supposed to happen to) a kid who’s in her “sophomore” year. What does she know? What has she learned? What does she need to learn?

I dunno how to institutionalize it.

I don’t think it’s just test scores.

I don’t think it’s “social promotions.”

I’ve heard horror stories about “home-schooled” kids who’ve basically been turned into child labor (stuffing envelopes or sewing piece work) and know a home-schooled kid who’s doing just fine in college now, thank you. I’ve heard a jillion stories about people with 8th Grade educations who’ve become business magnates.

What I see in the education debate is a lot of people who are looking for the silver bullet; the one-size fits-all solution; and I don’t know how you deal with it.

Stupid people can have parents who can afford private school (and donate to the new gymnasium) and never have to worry that their kid might be expelled. Smart people can have stupid parents who don’t provide them with books and other educational opportunities.

When people start proposing Test Scores, or drop-out rates, or any other single measure of education, they get political and lose track of the ultimate goal: kids who are smarter than we are.

I’m afraid I don’t have answers, only questions. Don’t even know how to get answers. There is a group of people (I know none of them!) opposing the bond issue and they have asked many questions yet been unable to get answers. How would a simple-minded grandmother know how to ask!?

They tell us what they would like us to know. I want to know more!

A smart person is VT! Well spoken, really full of facts and a respected person in the community.

Shoot, I didn’t even understand his last post! I think he said more of our elementary and middle students are testing better on state assessments and more of our schools are failing to post adequate yearly progress (AYP), thus more schools are on the list of needing improvement.

NCLB sets all schools up to fail eventually. There will never be a school that can test 100% proficient.

So it is a good thing more (younger) students are improving on the state assessments. That is a positive! Of course we won’t have the most recent test results available before we vote on the bond issue.

I should broaden the explanation on meeting AYP targets a bit. To meet the target, not only does the requisite percentage of students assessed in the school as a whole need to perform at “proficient and above”, so must each subroup tested need to make the target. Thus, a school as a whole may meet the target number; but if a subgroup does not, the school is not meeting the AYP goals.

In order for the school to have a subgroup, or more than one subgroup, there must be 30 or more students who fit within the definitions provided for subgroups. Examples include the “free and reduced lunch” subgroup; the “african-american” subgroup; etc. I do not know what the current status of special ed students is; at one time, as I recall, all special ed students had to meet the target, taking the same test as regular ed students; I believe this has been changed, to allow up to a certain number of special ed students to take modified assessments (there’s another type, too, but I don’t recall what it is). Again, the special ed students may be a subgroup, if there are sufficient numbers enrolled.

Truly, though, there has been an increase in the number of schools on the “bad list”, i.e., schools needing improvement. This is, IIRC, based upon the schools not meeting the AYP targets over a period of time, whether as a whole or in one or more subgroups.

The AYP targets change annually; to say it a different way, the number of students being assessed (as a percentage of the total number tested) meeting the “proficient or above” scores must increase annually to meet AYP, and eventually meet the goal of 100% by 2014 (an unrealistic goal, IMHO).

So, what is progress? More students scoring at the proficient and above level on the state assessments alone; or, is progress to be measured by more schools meeting AYP goals annually? BTW, it would not surprise me at all to see a larger number of schools not meeting AYP targets this year as opposed to last year, given the roughly 9% increase in the target, even though the students assessed show improvement in the number scoring “proficient and above”.

USD 259 seems not to be able to figure out what teachers figured out long ago, studied to accomplish, trained to give to their students. SO, USD 259 changes methods often and doesn’t allow the professionals in the classroom to do what they know how to do.

Talk about bright and shiny objects!

And if you think all that mumbletygoop I just typed is difficult to follow, try being a teacher and following whatever the latest and greatest is! Those layers and layers of highly-paid administrators have to do something. And most of what they do gets in the way of teaching!

YET, we taxpayers are supposed to ignore current waste that might go towards improving, even expanding, schools and give them a BIGGER chunk of money so they may continue wasting what they have!

Please, oh please, throw MORE MONEY at solving our Public Edukation problem!

They need at least 390% more money over the next 4 years, or God knows how stupider the kids will get.

Whether it be the UN Poverty Program or the Public School “System”, throwing more money at a problem only serves to line the corrupt and greedy pockets of people who ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO THE TAXPAYER!

Imagine, going to the store, buying some product, and have the Retailer and Manufacturer not accountable or liable for product defects or lack of performance.

This is reason #1 for School Vouchers, let the parents CHOOSE which schools their kids attend. Enpower the parents to hold the schools ACCOUNTABLE, through Parental Choice.

Ya Libs are all about Choice, aren’t you?

I’m always proud when I hear from a Mother such as you who is doing her part! You and your children should be very proud too!

You’re so right that too much is expected of our teachers! But throwing more money at that problem isn’t the solution. I would love to see teachers paid more, but then I would also love to see them respected and treated as the professionals they are! And if wishes were lollipops and raindrops were gumdrops…

Maybe some of those who are teachers, paid as teachers but DON’T TEACH could actually help with those students who need extra help! Actually assist the classroom teachers! What a concept. Seems that might be some value for their cost!

One would think they would be doing a better job.

I think I will go with my original inclination that the info and the truth is very difficult to come by and many many millions of dollars are spent questionably (wasted is how I see MUCH of it!).

Worst part is none of this is known. Voters will go vote without access to the information needed to cast their vote!

I’ve admitted to all of you that I voted for the downtown arena. I was tricked! I wasn’t given accurate or full information, in fact I was lied to!

So, this morning’s newspaper says this:

Fahnestock to lead the push for bond issue

“Supporters of a $370 million bond issue for Wichita schools launched their campaign Tuesday night led by a business leader who has helped persuade residents to raise their taxes in the past.”

The SAME MAN who led the effort to TRICK me and others about the arena is leading this bond issue effort! How many lies is he willing to tell this time? How many ways will he MISlead?

A lot of parents expect the teachers to make sure the kids can read, and make sure they read in class, but those teachers have 20 kids to work on, and you only have a few at home…more parents should take the initiative and help – that would allow for a larger variety of subjects/topics to be studied in class instead of the teacher having to spend an extra hour or two each day on the 14 students who are struggling just to read their homework assignment…

Seems to me some of those highly-paid administrative people are paid to keep this info unavailable!