With the state’s revenue picture uncertain and state responsibilities mounting, K-12 school funding could become a target for legislators. Already, there are observations that more state aid (39 percent higher than four years ago) isn’t sufficiently translating into more student achievement. “I’m sure we’re disappointed the results aren’t more dramatic,” House Speaker Melvin Neufeld, R-Ingalls, told Associated Press. “We’re looking for dramatic increases, because of what we’ve already spent, in the future because the system should start producing a better product over time.” But Neufeld and company need to be aware that the demands of the No Child Left Behind law are rising, too — calling on all students to be proficient in reading and math by 2014. Trying to squeeze schools to balance the state budget also would invite more lawsuits over inequity.
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35 Comments
More dramatic results are not allowed by the gene pool.
It’s not about money. I went to public school for quite a bit of my life in farming/ranching communities where funds were scarce, facilities were old and teachers were teaching too many students.
However, we managed to get our share of National Merit finalists, a couple of Westinghouse Science Student Awards and many other accomplishments. Reading was the number one downfall for most students in not doing well then and I’m sure it is now. If you can’t comprehend what you read, you won’t remember it.
As the PBS slogan goes, “Reading is fundamental.”
Believe it or not McCluer, I agree with the last part of your post.
Reading IS fundamental.
There really isn’t anything else more basic. Kids have to read, read, read. This has to happen at home as well, not just at school.
Let the teacher bashing proceed……………………………..
Here’s your opportunity to see how Wichita schools (USD #259) spends LOTS! of money! Please notice the lowest salary is higher than the pay of our highest paid teachers. Oh, and this list isn’t complete! It’s just a few (MORE THAN 4,500) of the salaried employees. What do these thousands of highly paid people do? How do they impact our students?
Further, this list certainly doesn’t include the hundreds of teachers who have no classrooms, no students and don’t teach anyone anything! Those teachers who teach no one anything add another OVER TEN MILLION DOLLARS EACH YEAR to the how some of our money is spent!
http://www.kansas.com/800/story/495800.html?appSession=92822859487596
The link will take you to the search page be sure “all” and “all” are in the last two fields, then hit “search.”
More money and more BOND ISSUES ARE NOT THE ANSWER!!! That has been proven over and over.
There are highly paid people who roll carts of books into classrooms as often as once each week. These highly paid people rolling these carts of books into classrooms don’t offer instructional assistance or even any motivation or encouragement — just bring the books. And it’s one less class period each week the classroom teacher has to teach his / her subject.
The intent is the students will read the books — a great intent, noble even. It would be even better if someone offered something to get the student interested in the book and the fun and knowledge the book offers.
I forgot to tell you — this is at the high school level! This is the initiative, the attempt to interest the high school student to read.
We outspend all the other nations on this planet COMBINED on military.
How is that helping test scores?
linda, look under Focht Instructional Center. THAT is where the salaries of the teachers who don’t see kids are listed.
That list is NOT complete, Apophis. But what it did show me is my figure is probably HALF of actual! We’re probably spending more than TWENTY MILLION annually for these teachers who teach no one anything!
linda, some of the “Learning Coaches” are site based and their salaries are in with that building. You would have to look at the “details” to figure out what they do.
I would say MOST are site based from looking at the Focht Instructional Center list! One would need more information than I have to know the names in order to access that info. Like most information they provide it is nearly impossible to get the truth, the full story, the facts. Why? Why do they hide, go to such extremes to keep us from knowing how OUR money is spent? Could it be because they don’t want us to know? Could it also be those making the decisions of how money is spent don’t know either?
Seems to me some of those highly-paid administrative people are paid to keep this info unavailable!
Linda, what you need to do is to visit each building’s individual website, and dig through the contact/staff information, looking for the person(s) who have a title such as “instructional coach” or the like; also, for teachers not teaching students, another title is “assessment coordinator”, but this may be tricky, as in some buildings, the person with the latter title is, e.g., a .5 allocation as faculty, and .5 as the “assessment coordinator” (translated, they teach half time and do the other job half time).
I am a mother of 3, and I have to say that I feel the blame for our children’s educational failure is a shared effort – schools AND parents. Parents need to encourage the reading, and the homework, and discourage excessive video game playing, and extra tv time… I am guilty of my kids playing video games and watching tv, or course, but I also encourage them to read, I read to them, or ask them to read to me. One of my kids favorite places to go on a Saturday is the bookstore or library – they all get a book, even the boy (lol). Even if he gets a comic book or a magazine, he still races home to READ IT…
A lot of parents expect the teachers to make sure the kids can read, and make sure they read in class, but those teachers have 20 kids to work on, and you only have a few at home…more parents should take the initiative and help – that would allow for a larger variety of subjects/topics to be studied in class instead of the teacher having to spend an extra hour or two each day on the 14 students who are struggling just to read their homework assignment…
Of course you already know I knew about that title, Vaughn!
I think I will go with my original inclination that the info and the truth is very difficult to come by and many many millions of dollars are spent questionably (wasted is how I see MUCH of it!).
Worst part is none of this is known. Voters will go vote without access to the information needed to cast their vote!
I’ve admitted to all of you that I voted for the downtown arena. I was tricked! I wasn’t given accurate or full information, in fact I was lied to!
So, this morning’s newspaper says this:
Fahnestock to lead the push for bond issue
“Supporters of a $370 million bond issue for Wichita schools launched their campaign Tuesday night led by a business leader who has helped persuade residents to raise their taxes in the past.”
The SAME MAN who led the effort to TRICK me and others about the arena is leading this bond issue effort! How many lies is he willing to tell this time? How many ways will he MISlead?
Having Administrators with doctorates.
Many with masters.
Teachers with degrees.
Most of them liberals (smartest people on earth, just ask them)
Most of them union members.(Best qualified, most highly trained, just ask them)
One would think they would be doing a better job.
jomama315,
I’m always proud when I hear from a Mother such as you who is doing her part! You and your children should be very proud too!
You’re so right that too much is expected of our teachers! But throwing more money at that problem isn’t the solution. I would love to see teachers paid more, but then I would also love to see them respected and treated as the professionals they are! And if wishes were lollipops and raindrops were gumdrops…
Maybe some of those who are teachers, paid as teachers but DON’T TEACH could actually help with those students who need extra help! Actually assist the classroom teachers! What a concept. Seems that might be some value for their cost!
Has anybody noticed a common theme in Government Spending? The more money that’s thrown at a problem/solution, the worse the problem gets!
Whether it be the UN Poverty Program or the Public School “System”, throwing more money at a problem only serves to line the corrupt and greedy pockets of people who ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO THE TAXPAYER!
Imagine, going to the store, buying some product, and have the Retailer and Manufacturer not accountable or liable for product defects or lack of performance.
This is reason #1 for School Vouchers, let the parents CHOOSE which schools their kids attend. Enpower the parents to hold the schools ACCOUNTABLE, through Parental Choice.
Ya Libs are all about Choice, aren’t you?
Obviously 39% more spending over 4 years WASN’T ENOUGH!
Please, oh please, throw MORE MONEY at solving our Public Edukation problem!
They need at least 390% more money over the next 4 years, or God knows how stupider the kids will get.
The problem is not enough or too much money. THe poroblem is test scores! Do away with testing NOW!
There are holes in the information. You should be able to type in a person’s name and their salary should come up. That is not happening with the link.
The link is to ONLY 4,500+ salaried people. It is not a complete listing of EVEN the salaried people. No complete listing is available to the people whose money is being spent!
“Whole language” supplanted “phonetics” in teaching reading….big mistake. Education grads spending time in the Education “business”, not teaching, that is cirriculum delveopement theroizing and some goofy idea about teaching the “whole” child. No accountability to the tax payer or the student. Just exposing the child to the course rather than teaching it, hoping homework will fill the gap with parental input, and if it doesn’t blaming inadequate homelife. There is something wrong when students and parents are referred to as “clients”. The above from retired teacher friends who wring their hands over what happened to the best system in the world.
Then there is sending home lots of homework because OBVIOUSLY if the student didn’t “get it” with instructional assistance practicing not getting it will help. /sarcasm If they did “get it” practicing overandover invites boredom and isn’t motivational.
USD 259 seems not to be able to figure out what teachers figured out long ago, studied to accomplish, trained to give to their students. SO, USD 259 changes methods often and doesn’t allow the professionals in the classroom to do what they know how to do.
Talk about bright and shiny objects!
And if you think all that mumbletygoop I just typed is difficult to follow, try being a teacher and following whatever the latest and greatest is! Those layers and layers of highly-paid administrators have to do something. And most of what they do gets in the way of teaching!
YET, we taxpayers are supposed to ignore current waste that might go towards improving, even expanding, schools and give them a BIGGER chunk of money so they may continue wasting what they have!
Linda do you plan to become active in making this information public. Someone needs to and you are starting to get a handle on it. I could back a tax increase if something positive is happening. The school board needs to know how the public feels.
If I may, okobserver, what is “positive”? State assessment scores have been improving in 259 at the elementary and middle school level; slowly, but improvement is there. At the high school level, not so much. BTW, the foregoing is from memory of last year’s (2007) state assessment scores.
Truly, though, there has been an increase in the number of schools on the “bad list”, i.e., schools needing improvement. This is, IIRC, based upon the schools not meeting the AYP targets over a period of time, whether as a whole or in one or more subgroups.
The AYP targets change annually; to say it a different way, the number of students being assessed (as a percentage of the total number tested) meeting the “proficient or above” scores must increase annually to meet AYP, and eventually meet the goal of 100% by 2014 (an unrealistic goal, IMHO).
So, what is progress? More students scoring at the proficient and above level on the state assessments alone; or, is progress to be measured by more schools meeting AYP goals annually? BTW, it would not surprise me at all to see a larger number of schools not meeting AYP targets this year as opposed to last year, given the roughly 9% increase in the target, even though the students assessed show improvement in the number scoring “proficient and above”.
Oops, “pogress” in the final paragraph should be “positive”.
I should broaden the explanation on meeting AYP targets a bit. To meet the target, not only does the requisite percentage of students assessed in the school as a whole need to perform at “proficient and above”, so must each subroup tested need to make the target. Thus, a school as a whole may meet the target number; but if a subgroup does not, the school is not meeting the AYP goals.
In order for the school to have a subgroup, or more than one subgroup, there must be 30 or more students who fit within the definitions provided for subgroups. Examples include the “free and reduced lunch” subgroup; the “african-american” subgroup; etc. I do not know what the current status of special ed students is; at one time, as I recall, all special ed students had to meet the target, taking the same test as regular ed students; I believe this has been changed, to allow up to a certain number of special ed students to take modified assessments (there’s another type, too, but I don’t recall what it is). Again, the special ed students may be a subgroup, if there are sufficient numbers enrolled.
I’m not smart enough, okob. I really am not. I don’t know how. I have no influence, no audience.
A smart person is VT! Well spoken, really full of facts and a respected person in the community.
Shoot, I didn’t even understand his last post! I think he said more of our elementary and middle students are testing better on state assessments and more of our schools are failing to post adequate yearly progress (AYP), thus more schools are on the list of needing improvement.
NCLB sets all schools up to fail eventually. There will never be a school that can test 100% proficient.
So it is a good thing more (younger) students are improving on the state assessments. That is a positive! Of course we won’t have the most recent test results available before we vote on the bond issue.
So if I didn’t understand VT’s post at 2:45 p.m. can you imagine how long I will need to study the one at 2:47? I may be slow but once I get something I do have it. ;-)
Ah, I knew that! I was afraid to look at it and it was easy. ;-) I’m not a quick study but have a hungry mind and do work hard at learning!
I’m afraid I don’t have answers, only questions. Don’t even know how to get answers. There is a group of people (I know none of them!) opposing the bond issue and they have asked many questions yet been unable to get answers. How would a simple-minded grandmother know how to ask!?
They tell us what they would like us to know. I want to know more!
It always struck me that the measuring sticks of education (public or private) are always skewed.
For a while, it was a “crisis” that so many kids dropped out of school. So local school board set up policies that increased graduation rates… except; that led to kid getting “social promotions” so they could stay with their friends and classmates.
And those “social promotions” led to a a lot of “graduates” who got a diploma without being able to balance a checkbook.
So then — and not without a rational basis — people started expecting someone who passed the 4th Grade might be able to perform on a 4th Grade level. So if you flunked 4th Grade arithmetic you were held back from their friends and classmates and, frequently dropped out.
Since I was in 4th Grade and never quite got the point of long division, I’ve taken all sorts of achievement and aptitude tests, SATs, entrance exams. When I was in 2nd Grade the tests showed I read at a 10th Grade level and wasn’t all that good at math.
When I was in 5th Grade I probably would have been better served had I been taking high school literature and 3rd grade math.
Which brings me to the point:
Test scores test what?
Teachers complain that they’re forced by NCLB to teach-to-the-test.
Kids who simply aren’t that bright, who will never find a cure for cancer or develop a flying car, can learn a lot that might give them a foundation for building a life and livelihood with basic understanding of language and math and culture.
I suspect there are many kids who are (okay, I’ll use the word) retarded by the process that assumes if you’re 8 years old you should be in the 3rd Grade.
I’d get rid of GRADE schools, and grade schooling.
I don’t care what happens to (or is supposed to happen to) a kid who’s in her “sophomore” year. What does she know? What has she learned? What does she need to learn?
I dunno how to institutionalize it.
I don’t think it’s just test scores.
I don’t think it’s “social promotions.”
I’ve heard horror stories about “home-schooled” kids who’ve basically been turned into child labor (stuffing envelopes or sewing piece work) and know a home-schooled kid who’s doing just fine in college now, thank you. I’ve heard a jillion stories about people with 8th Grade educations who’ve become business magnates.
What I see in the education debate is a lot of people who are looking for the silver bullet; the one-size fits-all solution; and I don’t know how you deal with it.
Stupid people can have parents who can afford private school (and donate to the new gymnasium) and never have to worry that their kid might be expelled. Smart people can have stupid parents who don’t provide them with books and other educational opportunities.
When people start proposing Test Scores, or drop-out rates, or any other single measure of education, they get political and lose track of the ultimate goal: kids who are smarter than we are.
I’ve a bunch of questions as well, Linda, as I think most folks do. Yes, the answers are not easily provided.
I’ll give an example of a couple of my questions:
1) It is reported that the proceeds of the bond issue, as proposed, will among other things be used to construct two new high schools, both of KSHSAA class 5-A size; both are to have football stadiums. Why, now, build one football stadium for each new high school, departing from past practice?
2) The proceeds will also be used, in part, to build nine practice gyms, one at each middle school; why is that? Is there insufficient room in the existing gyms to hold full Physical Education classes for the middle schools during the regular school day? To what extent will the general student body benefit from the proposed practice gyms?
3) To what extent will the use of the proceeds from the proposed bond issue to improve fine arts facilities and auditoriums benefit the student body as a whole? Is there not enough suitable room in the schools for the music, drama, etc., classes to be held now? Are the auditoriums so undersized or in such a bad state of repair that the same cannot now be used for all school assemblies, for example.
4) It has been reported that many tracks in the district are antiquated, and need to be replaced. The proceeds from the bond issue will be used, again in part, for this purpose. Are the tracks in such poor shape that the same are not safe for general use in P.E. classes? Is it necessary to build “competition suitable” tracks at each school?
5) One of the points to be made in promoting passage of the proposed bond issue is that, under current school finance law, the state will pay 25% of the costs. Recently, Speaker Neufeld has indicated that projected economic shortfalls will cause the legislature to review K-12 finance issues. What happens to the projects being proposed if the current law is changed such that the 25% is not available in the future?
There are many more issues on my mind, and on the minds of the organized opponents (none of whom I know either) that have been asked, but not answered. I think that in order for the bond issue to succeed, there should be answers provided so the same may be considered by the voters pre-election. And, Linda, the results of the latest assessments should also be made public ASAP (as well as district performance on the ACT and SAT).
MonkeyHawk, you have made some valid points there. Why, for example, is the “grade” one is in tied to chronological age? It made sense, I guess, at one time; it doesn’t seem to me to make sense any longer.
Why test scores? Graduation rates? (both of which are involved, BTW, in determining AYP). Because, as inadequate as they are in ascertaining “success”, they’re easily obtained, and something for people to look at without any need to consider all the other complex and simple variables that got into an adequate measure of educational success. Plus, it allows easy politicization of the whole question of educational success.
To my thinking, there is no “silver bullet” out there; I think that the “reforms” that happened in the 1920s and 30s were an attempt to find it, and the continued adherence to that model for far too long has contributed to the current malaise that is K-12 education, private or public.
#
This is reason #1 for School Vouchers, let the parents CHOOSE which schools their kids attend. Enpower the parents to hold the schools ACCOUNTABLE, through Parental Choice.
Ya Libs are all about Choice, aren’t you?
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted August 20, 2008 at 10:52 am | Permalink
Obviously 39% more spending over 4 years WASN’T ENOUGH!
Please, oh please, throw MORE MONEY at solving our Public Edukation problem!
They need at least 390% more money over the next 4 years, or God knows how stupider the kids will get.
====================================================
Well, max, not all people can send their kids to voucher schools, so other than slamming the system, how about using that brilliant mind of yours and come up with a PRACTICAL solution to the public education problem.
Toto doesn’t live in Kansas anymore, but even the most poorly executed education spending is better than underfunding it.
The destruction wrought by NCLB will be felt for generations to come (sigh. . . )>
We got more going for us here in Kansas than NCLB. Which, as you say, is bad enough!
double sigh
I do appreciate your words and your sentiment.