Barack Obama allowed this week that achieving peace in the Middle East is a tall order. That’s especially true given the hate-filled religious school curriculum in even “friendly” allied nations such as Saudi Arabia.
A Slate piece notes that a promised reform of extremist textbooks in Saudi Arabia’s Islamic schools hasn’t occurred. For instance, here is a “revised” fourth-grade textbook’s correct answer in a multiple-choice question about having “true belief”: “A man worships God alone, loves the believers and hates the unbelievers.”
Hating the unbelievers is central to Saudi Arabian Wahhabi and other extremist Islamic schools. The Slate piece calls for the world’s moderate Muslims to speak out more forcefully against these schools. Changing the way Islamic children in some countries are taught might be as important as defeating the Taliban in America’s long-range fight against terror.
213 Comments
This all sounds familiar, teaching hate and intolerance…oh wait…never mind. That was the UCC Church and the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
You know the minister that Osama Obama was ‘fer’ before he was ‘agin’ him.
Hummm, good point Regular!
Read some of the materials in Christian schools, the hate is just the same. The only difference is one praises Jesus, the other Muhammad, but they all hate unbelievers just the same.
Praising Jesus does not equal hating unbelievers.
Maybe Maggotpunk should give up dishing out his hate based lies and spend more time with his favorite Atheist based charitable organization.
Oh yea, they don’t exist. Athiests do not know the meaning of charity.
RFL, since you know what textbooks I’m talking about perhaps you could correct my error. Or is your entire argument that all Christian textbooks have in them is nothing but a big praise for Jesus?
The Muslims are taking over Europe. Soon they will take over the US so get ready.
“The Muslims are taking over Europe. Soon they will take over the US so get ready.”
I thought the Commies were doing that? Let me revise my paranoia and switch it to the Muslims. I suppose the Mexicans feel relieved that they are no longer considered the ones taking over America. Now what about the Jews? Do they still control America or is that the Secular Humanists these days?
Maggotpunk, I am not familiar with the textbooks that you have written or imagined in your own head.
Well RFL, thank you for your honesty that you respond by talking out of your ass. You might check out the research done by Albert J. Menendez to get caught up on the subject. Sorry you couldn’t bother to get educated on the subject before commenting on it but you may be a product of religious education. In that case it explains it perfectly well.
http://www.evilbible.com!
Just wondering if anyone knows how many times the bible says “hate, detest, kill, destroy?
“Just wondering if anyone knows how many times the bible says “hate, detest, kill, destroy?”
The Bible has numerous passages condemning usury, but just a couple condemning homosexuality. Guess which ones the fundies froth about? You never hear of the self-righteous politicians preaching about biblical values going after the Pay Day loansharks.
Oh and another thing…I had to stop and watch on one of the fundy channels another group on trying to convert the jews for bible prophesy. It is really spooky the fascination that fundy Christians have with the Jews, and even spookier yet that the Jews are just ok with this arrangement. I realize the Jews get something out of the deal but if I were they I’d tell the Christians to get bent.
Political_mama
Posted July 24, 2008 at 8:35 am | Permalink
Just wondering if anyone knows how many times the bible says “hate, detest, kill, destroy?
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and the Koran?
“Hating the unbelievers is central to Saudi Arabian Wahhabi and other extremist Islamic schools.”
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That’s the basics….if you want to keep your head, find Allah.
Look back and take note of how many wars have been fought in the name of Christianity. When you need to get warriors angry enough to kill it seems religion works really well! These peace loving religious people are willing to kill those who disagree with them. Organized religion turns out the meanest and largest street gangs. Hate and intolerance seems to be taught most effectively by ALL religions.
So before taking pot shots at who teaches hate, take a look back in history. Christianity now has competition for being mean and full of hate.
#
lindainks55
Posted July 24, 2008 at 8:57 am | Permalink
Look back and take note of how many wars have been fought in the name of Christianity. When you need to get warriors angry enough to kill it seems religion works really well! These peace loving religious people are willing to kill those who disagree with them. Organized religion turns out the meanest and largest street gangs. Hate and intolerance seems to be taught most effectively by ALL religions.
So before taking pot shots at who teaches hate, take a look back in history. Christianity now has competition for being mean and full of hate.
——————————–
Yes, thank you for the meat puppet viewpoint on war and historical perspective.
Your free copy of “Mental Anarchy and Liberalism” will be sent by a dromedary camel.
Well, thou shalt not suffer a witch to live……
Well, thou shalt not suffer a witch to live……
“Just wondering if anyone knows how many times the bible says “hate, detest, kill, destroy?”
The list may get longer since the Bible is going to be expanded. Someone had this notion of getting all the pages and fragments from an old Codex put back together. Mark will be expanded and a couple more books will be included. Of course fundy Christians believe in the true, inerrant Bible, they’ll just have another true version of the Bible to believe in.
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/
Note to Christain Haters:
Title of Thread: Some Islamic schools still spreading hate
MaggotC*nt, you are hated by these Muslims as well.
“MaggotC*nt, you are hated by these Muslims as well.”
So what’s your point? Is that a justification for your hatred?
I have no hatred How do you justify yours?
I’d hate somebody if they put sanctions on my country and forcefully built military bases on my holy land.
Always go back to the golden rule my friends.
What would we say if a powerful nation was doing this to our country?
“America is not God’s messianic force to be a sort of policeman for the rest of the world. I can hear God speaking, and he is saying, America, you are too arrogant. If you don’t change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power. Be still and know that I am God.”
Martin Luther King Jr.
God also mentions that after he breaks the back bone of this powerful nations power, he will, “Place it in the hands of a nation that doesn’t even know my name.”
Seems fitting given todays current situation. History is your guide, don’t shun it, learn from it.
It is each generations duty to relearn the lessons taught to previous generations. We have had a serious disconnect for about a century. Let’s bring these principles back to the forefront and teach them to our youth.
“I have no hatred How do you justify yours?”
Quite simple, I don’t think creating a religion to justify atrocities is a really great idea. Naturally you are a really loving person since you refer to me as Maggotc*nt. I wonder how swell you are towards people you admit you hate. But I’m assuming you’re a fundy so you are probably lying.
I’d hate somebody if they put sanctions on my country and forcefully built military bases on my holy land.
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I agree, we should also stop sending them billions in aid money, directly or through the U.N.
It’s all war propaganda. MOST schools teach differently. Only SOME teach this crazy talk.
It’s much better than ALL of our public schools bringing up generation after generation of uniformed idiots.
I don’t think creating a religion to justify atrocities
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Jeez, you don’t need a religion to do that, just stir up some emotion. It’s done all the time.
The C*nt reference was just responding to you as you refer to McCain. What? It’s only bad when I do it?
“Jeez, you don’t need a religion to do that, just stir up some emotion. It’s done all the time.”
So fundies are just inherently nasty since they love murder, rape and torture but use the Bible as a defense to try to convince those who aren’t as morally depraved as they are? Nice to know you admit fundies are psychopaths.
And let’s not lose sight of where we’re talking about: Saudi Arabia.
Ya know, our wonderful ally, which we’ve helpfully armed to the teeth over the years (while filling their country with our own military bases), and which also controls a huge chunk of the world’s oil?
Oh, and here’s a trivia question: Which country did most of the 9-11 hijackers come from?
Things happen for a reason. The first step to a solution is understanding the problem.
The far right uses religion, the far left uses emotion to acheive their goals….Either way it is the same thing Maggotpunk.
ANTI: Where do you put “Objectivist” on your political map, since we’re more or less on the same page on this one?
“The C*nt reference was just responding to you as you refer to McCain. What? It’s only bad when I do it?”
Actually I’m unaware of when I referred to McCain as McC*nt. Stodgy old codger or old coot yes, but I don’t recall McC*nt. But there’s no reason to take a fundy at his word since they are, as you say, psychopaths who believe lying for the lord is acceptable.
“Pass the Lord, and praise the ammunition. . .”
“The far right uses religion, the far left uses emotion to acheive their goals….Either way it is the same thing Maggotpunk.”
Yes, so what’s your point? Am I somehow pro-religion when liberals use religion? I wasn’t aware in my change of view towards religion. Thanks for educating me on my position which I must be completely unaware of.
ANTI: Where do you put “Objectivist” on your political map, since we’re more or less on the same page on this one?
—
Honestly, haven’t been paying close enough attention. Could be middle, could be Ron Paul-ish, could be a Wig…sorry :)
Nobody has the moral authority to tell other people what to do.
Where America thinks it gets its moral authority is beyond me. Are we really that arrogant? Did God really choose America as his forceful hand to spread democracy?
Progressives make me sick. Their imperial attitudes are the exact ideas that our founding fathers fought and died for. We owe them much better than this.
Honor their memories and bring America back to the Constitutional Republic that it was intended to be. This country grew more than any other country throughout history from 1800-1910.
What happened? Woodrow Wilson and his imperialistic attitude took power. He brought about the federal reserve, the income tax, and sought to spread democracy all over the world.
He quickly got us involoved in WWI. We had no business their, but we had a moral responsibility to tell others how to live apparently.
Americans soon began to feel that moral responsibility. It has been downhill ever since.
“Progressives make me sick. Their imperial attitudes are the exact ideas that our founding fathers fought and died for. We owe them much better than this.”
If they fought and died then how did they get around to signing that Constitution?
What happened? Woodrow Wilson and his imperialistic attitude took power. He brought about the federal reserve, the income tax, and sought to spread democracy all over the world.
Objectivist: It’s far more complicated than you think. But I guess that’s the point of fanatical ideologies–simplifying the messy realities.
The direct income tax, e.g., was an idea that had been kicking around since the Gilded Age, and was championed by Teddy Roosevelt, not Wilson.
We are living in a modern Gilded Age now. Do you not see that?
Rage
Posted July 24, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink
ANTI: Where do you put “Objectivist” on your political map, since we’re more or less on the same page on this one?
__________________________________________________
Let me help you out Rage. Their is no difference between Democrats and Republicans.
I don’t look at our Government in Left and Right terms.
It really should be measured in another way. Big government or small government.
You’ll notice that both parties want big government. Can any of you tell me where my option for small government is in todays political landscape?
It doesn’t exist. That’s why I have to laugh when I see arguments between Democrats and Republicans. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.
We will pay for our apathy though. We will get exactly what we deserve. We are slothful, gluttonous, arrogant, and now we think God chose America to police the world.
You all know that we are in deep s*it. We need to hold our congress accountable. They passed the bailout bill of Fannie and Freddie yesterday. Does anyone care? That is 800 billion added to the national debt. That is our money being stolen from us. Wake up people. They do it right in front of your eyes and you could give a ratsass.
That’s too bad. This country was started by great men. I feel bad for those who died to give it to us. We just pissed it away.
Thomas Paine envisioned things like Social Security, free education and a progressive income tax. But he was one of those Founding Fathers so we gotta respect his views by completely ignoring them. Then again, Patrick Henry wanted a theocracy, John Adams wanted a monarchy, but let’s just simply everything to agree with a preconceived notion of what they all wanted.
“It doesn’t exist. That’s why I have to laugh when I see arguments between Democrats and Republicans. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.”
That pretty much proves you don’t have a grasp on the subject.
And here I thought the House of Saud were our friends.
/sarcasm off
Let me help you out Rage.
I didn’t need your help at all, but thanks. You said nothing that I didn’t fully expect to hear.
To clarify: I have a pretty fair awareness of existing polispace, and where you would fit in it.
Surprise me.
The United States Constitution is what they made the law of this Republic.
This idea of what they all wanted was settled when they locked themselves in a room and wrote the Constitution.
It doesn’t matter. All empires come down for the exact reasons this one will. America fell into the trap that all other powerful nations have. We are right on that road.
When the people don’t care, you are doomed.
For some reason, most of you think an income tax is a good idea. Why not give me my money back and let me decide what is best for it? Why do I give it to someone who may give it to something I don’t agree with?
Am I too stupid to see what needs my money? Can I not see where my local community will need my money better than someone in Washington D.C.? I believe in Individualism, not Collectivism.
You think that people will allow things to fall apart if tax money doesn’t take care of it? People are not stupid. People will always rise to the occasion once something has become a crisis. It is human nature.
Look at gas prices. It’s a crisis, so what are we doing, looking for solutions. We, as individuals, are all searching for something to improve our lives as far a gas prices are concerned. I am going to build a water hybrid system. I’m sure all of you are looking for alternatives.
“Nobody has the moral authority to tell other people what to do.”
uh oh.
Somebody better call the Landshark to send a Candygram to terry, joe and phred to let them know…
Ben you are right – the house of Saud isn’t our friend but they are in a position to harm our economy.
When you read this thread and the hate displayed is it any wonder that our country is becoming weaker in the worlds eyes?
Lincoln said it best ‘A house divided against itself cannot long stand’. Maybe we will wake up in time. Seeing the hate displayed here I somehow doubt it.
“We are slothful, gluttonous, arrogant, and now we think God chose America to police the world.”
I think we should divide up the duties.
I’ll take slothful and gluttonous, gmc can take arrogant, and maybe the price boys and reg can police the world?
I think we have it covered!
Wanna talk about spreading hate to children?
Have you watched “Jesus Camp”?
Woof. Now that’s spreadin’ hate with a trowel.
A house divided cannot stand? Um, yeah. Because, ya know, hate amendments are so unifying…
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 10:17 am | Permalink
“It doesn’t exist. That’s why I have to laugh when I see arguments between Democrats and Republicans. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.”
That pretty much proves you don’t have a grasp on the subject.
__________________________________________________
Please Maggot. Both parties agree on an interventionist Foreign Policy. They only differences are technicalities, such as where will we intervene or when we will pullout.
Where is the voice of reason that is against our intervention? That is a real difference.
farmgrrl, you know some hate is justified! It’s only the hate that isn’t justified that is really hate… And if we would just join the correct and right organized religion we would easily understand which hate is and isn’t justified. Got that?
“Please Maggot. Both parties agree on an interventionist Foreign Policy. They only differences are technicalities, such as where will we intervene or when we will pullout.”
Oh good, I knew there was only one position the parties held. Silly me for not thinking politics were that simple. Thanks for educating me. You really don’t know what you are talking about.
Am I too stupid to see what needs my money? Can I not see where my local community will need my money better than someone in Washington D.C.? I believe in Individualism, not Collectivism.
Again: A point with some validity, drowned in fanatical excess.
If your tax dollars hadn’t funded DARPA and (later) NCSA (thank you, Al Gore), you wouldn’t be reading this, dork.
If you want to return to Jefferson’s idyllic pastoral existence, well, good luck with that.
“It doesn’t exist. That’s why I have to laugh when I see arguments between Democrats and Republicans. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.”
That pretty much proves you don’t have a grasp on the subject.
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That proves to me that your make-up is running into your eyes…..baaaa! baaaaa! little sheep
Hee hee heeeeeee Linda!
And I guess obj will be voting for local elected officials who will turn back all that federal highway money, and medicare and medicaid money that goes to support her hospitals, etc?
just askin’
I want my tax money back too. I damn sure dont want it supporting war or any OTHER faith based initiatives…
“That proves to me that your make-up is running into your eyes…..baaaa! baaaaa! little sheep”
I know you aren’t in the habit of supporting your claims but perhaps this time I’ll get lucky. Since Democrats and Republicans are the same show me how Gore’s environmental policies mirror Bush’s.
When I grew up in the Jim Crow south many Protestant churches preached that (a) blacks were inferior), (b) the Catholic Church was the Whore of babylon and (c) Jews were the spawn of Satan.
No religion – NONE – has a monopoly on hate.
no hate here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMrtziAaA_o
A house divided cannot stand? Um, yeah. Because, ya know, hate amendments are so unifying…
I suppose that’s why I will (probably) hold my nose, and vote for Gabby Giffords (sigh. . .).
OK Maggot. Which party is against a central bank? It is obvious that a central bank is a bad idea, seeing as they cannot handle their objectives. So, which party is against it?
What is the difference between Democrats and Republicans as far as Foreign Policy is concerned?
What about spending? Does one not like to spend and the other love to spend? Please elaborate.
I am being serious here. I need someone to prove to me that their is a difference. I really need to be convinced of this. Help me out here.
or here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAcaAuGZCfw&feature=related
Since Democrats and Republicans are the same show me how Gore’s environmental policies mirror Bush’s.
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OK, They are both about money and lots of it, not about the environment.
Allah Akbar….this fall’s catch phrase!
Ben I would like to think we have came a long ways since the Jim Crow days. I could be wrong but hope springs eternal. And if you think that churches and religion have a monopoly on hate then you haven’t been reading these blogs with an open mind.
Pour yourself a tall glass of goats milk and stone your wife….Or hope it’s your wife and not your neighbors….you won’t be able to see her face in that berka.
Thanks Objectivist, now you have made it clear there are only three issues in politics. Thanks for clearly that up. You clearly proved you have a grasp on the issues by completely oversimplifying things and picking and choosing the issues you care about.
By the way, how did that move towards a Libertarian economic system work out for Pinochet’s Chile and in Somalia? I’m sure you can successfully argue with someone who is unfamiliar with what your policies lead to but you won’t have much luck with the progressives on this forum.
What is the difference between Democrats and Republicans as far as Foreign Policy is concerned?
A majority of Democrats voted against the Iraq War. Had the same percentage of Republicans voted ‘no’, the resolution would not have passed.
, . . in fact, it would have been crushed.
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 10:41 am | Permalink
“That proves to me that your make-up is running into your eyes…..baaaa! baaaaa! little sheep”
I know you aren’t in the habit of supporting your claims but perhaps this time I’ll get lucky. Since Democrats and Republicans are the same show me how Gore’s environmental policies mirror Bush’s.
__________________________________________________
Both are willing to spend money to solve the issue. Solutions may be different, but they are both going to take our money and spend it. We may not agree with what Gore and Bush do.
This is why you let me keep my money and decide what is best for me. It is the information age. I can find out how to install a water hybrid system in my car just with the click of a mouse.
You seem to have this thought that the government knows what’s best for you. I am fully capable of helping myself. I may not be right, but then I just try again. It is not difficult.
Governments do not generate money, they have to tax and borrow. Remember that. Whatever they spend, it was with your money. I hope that’s where you wanted it to go.
Rage
Posted July 24, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
What is the difference between Democrats and Republicans as far as Foreign Policy is concerned?
A majority of Democrats voted against the Iraq War. Had the same percentage of Republicans voted ‘no’, the resolution would not have passed.
__________________________________________________
Now, we have a Democratic majority. They almost all vote to continue funding the war. Why don’t they just vote to not fund the war effort if they were against it?
“Both are willing to spend money to solve the issue. Solutions may be different, but they are both going to take our money and spend it. We may not agree with what Gore and Bush do.”
Well this is a Constitutional Republic. It’s still a better system than your corporate anarchy system as we have seen in Chile, Somalia and Bush’s Iraq.
OBJ: I wouldn’t say that the Dems and GOP are the same. Obviously they are opposites. But at the basic premise, you are correct. Each party holds one area that they would like to have security to their constituancy. Another area to have freedom to their constituancy.
Republicans:
Freedom: to carry guns; make money without being taxed; and spread their Christianity.
Security: No gay marriage; communism/islamic extremism won’t spread (aka the domino theory)
Democrats:
Freedom: To choose their sexual expression; reproductive freedom.
Security: Guns controlled; Corporate greed kept in check.
Both sides are supremely confident that their freedoms are absolute and their security is also absolute. As you can see, they conflict.
In that way, both parties are the same. That is why I choose Libertarian, both economic and social Freedom. In my opinion, err on the side of freedom.
“Now, we have a Democratic majority. They almost all vote to continue funding the war. Why don’t they just vote to not fund the war effort if they were against it?”
Thanks for demonstrating again that you don’t have a grasp on the subjects. Republicans use a filibuster quite often and Democrats do not have a majority in the Senate.
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink
Thanks Objectivist, now you have made it clear there are only three issues in politics. Thanks for clearly that up. You clearly proved you have a grasp on the issues by completely oversimplifying things and picking and choosing the issues you care about.
By the way, how did that move towards a Libertarian economic system work out for Pinochet’s Chile and in Somalia? I’m sure you can successfully argue with someone who is unfamiliar with what your policies lead to but you won’t have much luck with the progressives on this forum.
_______________________________________________
Monetary policy is the most important. It encompasses everything you want to bicker about.
Foreign Policy has an impact on our monetary policy.
The budget is impacted by the monetary policy.
Anything you want to argue with me about is tied to the monetary policy.
okob – I still see some of that in certain of the local “Christian” churches. Both the anti-Catholic and the anti-Jewish sentiments.
ANTI – that stone your wife idea – is that from that “Christian” group down in Texas on that ranch?
“Anything you want to argue with me about is tied to the monetary policy.”
Thanks for informing me about one of the oldest facts in human history. Care to come up with anything equally as brilliant?
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 10:58 am | Permalink
“Now, we have a Democratic majority. They almost all vote to continue funding the war. Why don’t they just vote to not fund the war effort if they were against it?”
Thanks for demonstrating again that you don’t have a grasp on the subjects. Republicans use a filibuster quite often and Democrats do not have a majority in the Senate.
_______________________________________________
My apologies Maggot. I stepped into an area I wasn’t sure of. I would still like to know how the war gets its funding? Something has to work between both parties to allow our money to fund the war.
Now, we have a Democratic majority. They almost all vote to continue funding the war.
Wrong. But enough of them, aided and abetted by the “leadership,” have caved in. And we’re trying to make them pay, now, with the help of people of very different political perspectives. Are you in?
Or do you prefer to talk?
http://www.accountabilitynowpac.com/
I have no illusions about how wonderful our corporate Democrats are. But I also have a good understanding of what government does, and how it actually works (when it does).
Simplistic sloganeering ain’t gonna cut it.
ANTI – that stone your wife idea – is that from that “Christian” group down in Texas on that ranch?
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No, an “Islamic” group up in Dearborn, Michigan.
“My apologies Maggot. I stepped into an area I wasn’t sure of. I would still like to know how the war gets its funding? Something has to work between both parties to allow our money to fund the war.”
Your naive mistake is thinking that everyone in the political parties think alike. That may exist in your anarchist system but not in a real political system. I really don’t care to explain the most simple of realities to buffoons who choose to remain ignorant. I suggest picking up a newspaper and take the time to get a minor education.
Heheheheh. Okie dokie, jim crow is not dead, it’s just that gay folks are the new, uh, “nigras” as they say in the south….
And speaking of which, have you seen this? I understand it’s happened to this hateful biotch twice in the last two months. Google Sally Kern for a real lesson in hate!
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=2...
OKLAHOMA CITY — Outspoken state Rep. Sally Kern was turned back by security Wednesday morning when she arrived at the Capitol carrying a pistol in her purse.
The Oklahoma City Republican said she was as surprised as security officers were when the small gun was spotted inside her purse as it rode on a camera-equipped conveyer at one of the Capitol entrances. snip
Kern became the subject of national news stories this spring when she told a Republican group that homosexuality is a bigger threat than terrorism to the United States. snip
Two signs prominently displayed at the Capitol’s east entrance declare that firearms, knives and explosive and flammable materials are prohibited and that all belongings entering the building are subject to inspection.
“Persons who willfully bypass or go around a security checkpoint may be fined and/or imprisoned,” one sign states.
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink
“Anything you want to argue with me about is tied to the monetary policy.”
Thanks for informing me about one of the oldest facts in human history. Care to come up with anything equally as brilliant?
__________________________________________________
Your the one who said my three points of discussion were not the only ones. I was just pointing out that Monetary policy does impact all the ones you want to discuss.
Pinochet and Chile. I’ll have to look that one up.
I can tell you that if free market theory were implemented here, there would be a short term, sharp pain to the economy. It would correct itself and we would grow at a steady rate.
Currently, we will take the short term fix, but in the long run we are in trouble. I have most of my assets in foreign currency and precious metals.
There is going to be a huge correction either way. I wonder what will come after the correction? More regulations, or a little common sense.
We will see if what we are doing now is sustainable I guess.
“No, an “Islamic” group up in Dearborn, Michigan.”
Funny thing is that the Koran has no mention of stoning people to death as a punishment for a crime. Burkas aren’t mentioned either. These are just products of the Muslim culture, not the religion.\
Now if you go to the Old Testament, which the Jews, Christians and Muslims share, then there is plenty of justification for stoning. One example is to stone your children to death if they are disrespectful to their parents.
Heheheheh. Okie dokie, jim crow is not dead, it’s just that gay folks are the new, uh, “nigras” as they say in the south….
—
That is the gayist thing I have heard.
Funny thing is that the Koran has no mention of stoning people to death as a punishment for a crime.
—
Funny thing is that I didn’t mention the Koran.
“I can tell you that if free market theory were implemented here, there would be a short term, sharp pain to the economy. It would correct itself and we would grow at a steady rate.”
Not really, it would lead to economic disaster. All corporations are chartered by the government. Thereby, for your free market system to work all corporations would have to be dissolved which would lead to a huge collapse on Wall Street. Massive layoffs, lost pensions, etc. Somehow you view this as a short term benefit?
“Funny thing is that I didn’t mention the Koran.”
Nope, you mentioned the religion of Islam. I suppose Islam, a religion based upon an interpretation of the Koran, has no connection to the Koran. So you really didn’t need to mention it.
Old Testament Christians are not sawing peoples heads off, stoning people(as a nation), an blowing themselves up on a daily basis.
Old Testament Christians are not sawing peoples heads off, stoning people(as a nation), an blowing themselves up on a daily basis.
Naw, they generally limit themselves to beating up gays, and blowing up abortion clinics.
Anti I know this is a stretch but try to imagine the world stage. On this stage what do you see? Do you see countries warring with each others? Do you see children starving in third world countries? Do you see working Americans suffering under the load of high fuel costs? Do you see a national election coming up with two very different candidates? Do you see a handful of people who care whether men can marry men or women can marry women?
I don’t. I really don’t care. Why does every thread have to turn into a discussion of farmie lifestyle? She can marry whoever she wants. I don’t care. But if the majority of voters say no then she can’t.
Can we move past that. We have serious problems that need to be faced.
“Old Testament Christians are not sawing peoples heads off, stoning people(as a nation), an blowing themselves up on a daily basis.”
First off, Old Testament Christian is an oxymoron. Second, we live in a secular society so Christians don’t have the protection of a theocratic government. They have to fear the secular legal system, that’s why they don’t get to act of their religious desires of slaughtering the infidels.
Nope, you mentioned the religion of Islam. I suppose Islam, a religion based upon an interpretation of the Koran, has no connection to the Koran. So you really didn’t need to mention it.
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Then why are Islamist doing it? (stoning, sawing heads off, blowing selves up daily)
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:06 am | Permalink
“My apologies Maggot. I stepped into an area I wasn’t sure of. I would still like to know how the war gets its funding? Something has to work between both parties to allow our money to fund the war.”
Your naive mistake is thinking that everyone in the political parties think alike. That may exist in your anarchist system but not in a real political system. I really don’t care to explain the most simple of realities to buffoons who choose to remain ignorant. I suggest picking up a newspaper and take the time to get a minor education.
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C’mon Maggot. Anarchy? You know better than that. That is a tired line used by people who don’t understand Austrian Economics.
We will never convince one another of our differences, but I can tell you that reading a newspaper is not where you are going to get answers. Read some books. Preferably on finance and economics. History is good too.
Keep living for the now and see where that gets you. The road we are on is not a good one. Your new ideas cannot defeat the laws of nature.
Political parties may not think alike, but the proof I have is much stronger than yours. Sometimes you need to simplify things to get to the root of the problem.
We can get into the technicalities of issues all day. The fact is, both parties show no differences in regards to the major policies at the basic level.
I have never seen or met a Christian that has religious desires of slaughtering the infidels.
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Rage
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:17 am | Permalink
Old Testament Christians are not sawing peoples heads off, stoning people(as a nation), an blowing themselves up on a daily basis.
Naw, they generally limit themselves to beating up gays, and blowing up abortion clinics.
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Generalize much?
Or do you just like making statements that make you sound like a redneck?
“Can we move past that.”
No, a society that treats a portion of it’s people as second class citizens cannot survive.
The United States used to be based on the protection “of the minority against the tyranny of the majority.” We made not have always been successful at that (slavery, women’s suffrage, separate but equal) but it was the intent.
Yes, we have many pressing issues, so why do conservatives want to focus on Constitutional Amendments to deny gays the right to marriage?
Not really, it would lead to economic disaster. All corporations are chartered by the government. Thereby, for your free market system to work all corporations would have to be dissolved which would lead to a huge collapse on Wall Street. Massive layoffs, lost pensions, etc. Somehow you view this as a short term benefit?
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A system based on bullsh*t. We are over extended. We create employment for the sake of employment. There is no production behind it though.
The people who lose their pensions better hold the elected officials accountable. This is their fault.
There is a difference between full employment and full production.
Creating jobs is garbage. How about you create production and watch what happens to this country.
You seem to thing that Corps should be chartered by the Govt. They should have never been involved in the first place.
Govt. needs to be smaller.
“C’mon Maggot. Anarchy? You know better than that. That is a tired line used by people who don’t understand Austrian Economics.”
That’s what you’ve been arguing for this entire time. What do you think free market means? It means no oversight, no regulation, it just lets the corporation do whatever it wants and have the backing of the police and national guard should the peasants get unruly. If you bothered to take the time to learn some American history you’d realize this.
There was a time in America where there was practically no regulation and no income tax. The people became disgusted with this mode of government and got together and changed it. You don’t like people being represented in government, you want to tear down this country and replace the Constitution with a corporate charter. As I’ve said before, we have foreign examples to look to as well and the results were just as awful.
“Generalize much?
Or do you just like making statements that make you sound like a redneck?”
How many Atheists are going around leaving gays to die on fence posts or blowing up abortion clinics? That is strictly in the realm of the religious.
Generalize much?
That of course was the exactly the point.
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Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink
“Generalize much?
Or do you just like making statements that make you sound like a redneck?”
How many Atheists are going around leaving gays to die on fence posts or blowing up abortion clinics? That is strictly in the realm of the religious.
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Nope, that’s nut jobs who take the law into their own hands. Or, in the case of beating gays up, nut jobs who are just thugs.
I bet their are some atheistic biker dudes that would do the same thing for grins.
Not a lot of the “faithful” in prisons.
athesitic biker dudes??? No generalizing there.
“Nope, that’s nut jobs who take the law into their own hands. Or, in the case of beating gays up, nut jobs who are just thugs.”
Fundamentalist Christians = Nut jobs. Looks like we are in agreement.
Nope, you mentioned the religion of Islam. I suppose Islam, a religion based upon an interpretation of the Koran, has no connection to the Koran. So you really didn’t need to mention it.
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Then why are Islamist doing it? (stoning, sawing heads off, blowing selves up daily)
Nut jobs=Make-up wearing dudes (excluding rockstar, actor, holloween, horribly disfigured)
Agreed
Maggotpunk
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:25 am | Permalink
“C’mon Maggot. Anarchy? You know better than that. That is a tired line used by people who don’t understand Austrian Economics.”
That’s what you’ve been arguing for this entire time. What do you think free market means? It means no oversight, no regulation, it just lets the corporation do whatever it wants and have the backing of the police and national guard should the peasants get unruly. If you bothered to take the time to learn some American history you’d realize this.
There was a time in America where there was practically no regulation and no income tax. The people became disgusted with this mode of government and got together and changed it. You don’t like people being represented in government, you want to tear down this country and replace the Constitution with a corporate charter. As I’ve said before, we have foreign examples to look to as well and the results were just as awful.
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That’s Right Maggot. You have no freakin clue what you are talking about. What does a productive, money making service bring to it? Competition. What does competition do? Drives down prices. You seem to think that people will just lay down and let someone make money in an open market? People are going to find a way to do something better for cheaper.
Those people that got together to change the market were the piece of sh*t business men who couldn’t beat another competitor. They had tarriffs, regulations, and the like imposed on competition. This is what happened. The free market was corrupted from within.
Consumers like low prices. This current system allows corporations to grow large and then dictate prices because there is no competition.
Not to mention we have money that is paper and backed by nothing. Prices are manipulated due to increases in the money supply.
“Then why are Islamist doing it? (stoning, sawing heads off, blowing selves up daily)”
Because they don’t have a separation of state and church (or in this case mosque) in those countries. Saudi Arabia, for example, has a religious police which goes around enforcing religious morals. Thankfully here in America, as we have gotten more secular, have done away with religious laws.
One perfect example is Iraq. Before the illegal Bush occupation Iraq was a secular country. Women could wear what they wanted, go to university, Christians could operate openly and in safety. Now it has become an Islamic Republic and fundamentalists are using the disarray to implement their religious laws. Intellectuals are slaughtered, women are executed or covered, Christians live in fear all because the religious groups are permitted to control affairs of the government.
There is a fringe of fundies in America who want the same thing but what the Christian religion in control. Ideologies of extremists really aren’t that different.
“That’s Right Maggot. You have no freakin clue what you are talking about. What does a productive, money making service bring to it? Competition. What does competition do? Drives down prices. You seem to think that people will just lay down and let someone make money in an open market? People are going to find a way to do something better for cheaper.”
OPEC.
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LLTVET
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:31 am | Permalink
athesitic biker dudes??? No generalizing there.
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Actually, there are a lot of outlaw bikers who have a belief in Christ in their own twisted way.
They are just not very good on following through with the instructions from the Bible.
“They are just not very good on following through with the instructions from the Bible.”
Like going into a town under the banner of peace then getting inside and slaughtering all the inhabitants, including livestock, but keeping young virgin girls for sex slaves. Clergy get half the girls, everyone else get the other half.
Shame on those biker dudes for not following through.
Iraq was a paradise, I remember spending the summers there (it was a cool climate before Bush’s war), I enjoyed the gassings, political freedom (one), arm breakings, and police beatings, rapings for Oooooh-Day, and the constant overwhelming fear……those were the days…
Annie,
I think Christian-Identity hate-groups are very different from mainstream Christians. The former believe that Eve had sex with Satan and Cain the result of that was the first Jew.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has done a lot to document what the Christian-Identity groups are about. They are offshoots of the Klan and the American Nazi movements.
http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp
Oh and the athelete killings….
“Iraq was a paradise, I remember spending the summers there (it was a cool climate before Bush’s war), I enjoyed the gassings, political freedom (one), arm breakings, and police beatings, rapings for Oooooh-Day, and the constant overwhelming fear……those were the days…”
Don’t worry, it hasn’t changed much except the body count is much higher (plus 4 million refugees).
Rage how many abortion clinics are there in the US? How many have been bombed? How many Christians are in the US?
Hopefully you will get the picture if you are honest with yourself. Remember the old saying ‘just because you sit in a garage it doesn’t make you a car’. Same think with professed Christians.
I come from a large family. We are all Christians and have been for many years. None of us hate gays or have ever demonstrated in front of abortion clinics or never bombed one. Your broad brush approach is very narrowed minded.
From wiki:
“According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid (”stink bombs”).[8] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio”
Chance each act was caused by a Christian, 99%.
Don’t worry, it hasn’t changed much except the body count is much higher (plus 4 million refugees).
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I hear it is hotter too…..you just seam to paint it as a fantastic place before evil (and christian by the way.. BOOO!) “Bush” came in.
How many “Fundy” Christians are murderers, rapist, crack dealers, burglars, used car salesman, and lawyers?
our broad brush approach is very narrowed minded.
Your inability to grasp a comparison is showing.
When I see some cognizance of the differing schools of Islam by the “Obama Osama” crowd, I’ll be surprised.
seem
seem
quid pro quo OK. As an agnostic, I don’t go around riding my Harley, raping and committing acts of depravity.
You Christians wish to be trusted that you won’t go to extremes, but I don’t see much faith in us agnostics that we won’t go to opposite extremes.
Care to show me how you Christians have shown trust to us agnostics?
How many “Fundy” Christians are murderers, rapist, crack dealers, burglars, used car salesman, and lawyers?
I don’t think anyone is compiling those statistics.
Obama is a Christian (BOOO!), some say for 20 years, how can you support him Maggot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
The Cultural Revolution was launched by Chairman Mao Zedong (undisputed Atheist).
Millions of people in China reportedly had their human rights annulled during the Cultural Revolution. Millions more were also forcibly displaced. During the Cultural Revolution, young people from the cities were forcibly moved to the countryside, where they were forced to abandon all forms of standard education in place of the propaganda teachings of the Communist Party of China
Estimates of the death toll, civilians and Red Guards, from various Western and Eastern sourcesare about 500,000 in the true years of chaos of 1966—1969
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Chance of each death (500,000) and human rights violations (1,000,000) at the hands of an Atheist? 99.5%
Rage
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:56 am | Permalink
How many “Fundy” Christians are murderers, rapist, crack dealers, burglars, used car salesman, and lawyers?
I don’t think anyone is compiling those statistics.
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oh, I have faith Maggot has the numbers on the lawyers and used car salesmen.
“Obama is a Christian (BOOO!), some say for 20 years, how can you support him Maggot?”
Well right now I plan on sticking a bumper sticker on the jalopy and voting for him. I don’t know whether or not I’ll send him a donation or if I’ll just throw one into a general election fund. But if you are really interested in supporting him you can just go to his website.
“Thankfully here in America, as we have gotten more secular, have done away with religious laws.”
Um, mp?
Hate amendments are PURE religious laws! We arent doing away with them anytime soon that I can see.
They’ll have to pry the hate amendment from the cold, dead, bigoted hands of almost eighty percent of kansans.
Fro wiki, a little blurb about the good days when men were men
Although Sinclair originally intended to focus on industrial labor and working conditions, food safety became the most pressing issue. Sinclair’s account of workers’ falling into meat processing tanks and being ground, along with animal parts, into “Durham’s Pure Beef Lard”, gripped public attention. The morbidity of the working conditions, as well as the exploitation of children and women alike that Sinclair exposed showed the corruption taking place inside the meat packing factories. Foreign sales of American meat fell by one-half. In order to calm public outrage and demonstrate the cleanliness of their meat, the major meat packers lobbied the Federal government to pass legislation paying for additional inspection and certification of meat packaged in the United States. [3] Their efforts, coupled with the public outcry, led to the passage of the Meat Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906, which established the Food and Drug Administration.
Although the meatpackers lobbied the government for legislation, they did not welcome regulations. Sinclair and President Theodore Roosevelt were both integral to the passage of the Meat Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906. Roosevelt was sent multiple copies of The Jungle, including one by Sinclair himself, prompting his curiosity about meat inspection, but not much else. After much persuasion from Sinclair as to the seriousness of the situation, Roosevelt agreed to send two men to investigate Sinclair’s claims. The men the president chose, Charles P. Neill and James B. Reynolds, had both done investigative work for Roosevelt before, and were thought trustworthy. Sinclair really wanted Roosevelt to send his inspectors into the factories so they could see how poorly the workers were being treated; he wanted the nation to become better educated on the issue of “wage slavery”. Instead of acknowledging the poor conditions and inhumane treatment of the workers, the men reported only on the cleanliness, or lack thereof, in these packing factories.
Even though the meat packers had forewarning and time to clean up, the conditions Neill and Reynolds observed were described as “revolting”. The only claim in Sinclair’s work which they failed to substantiate was that workers who had fallen into lard vats were left and sold as lard. Roosevelt was so concerned about the impact of Neill and Reynold’s report on western stock growers and European meat importers that he did not release the findings for publication. Instead, he helped the issue by dropping hints from the report, alluding to disgusting conditions and inadequate inspection measures. This pressure was adequate, although the bill that was finally passed did not include dating cans of meat or charging the packers for inspection costs.[4] Sinclair rejected the legislation, as he viewed it as an unjustified boon to large meat packers partially because the U.S. was to bear the costs of inspection at $3,000,000 a year.[5][6] He famously noted the limited effect of his book (which led to meat packing regulations, but not to reform of the wages and living conditions of its workers) by stating, “I aimed at the public’s heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach.”
In 1914 the All Star Features Corp. produced the silent film ‘The Jungle’ based on Sinclair’s book.
I will just note the obvious: Given the large proportion of the populace that purports to be Christian, there is no reason to believe that a similar percentage of Christians will not be found in our nation’s prisons.
“Chance of each death (500,000) and human rights violations (1,000,000) at the hands of an Atheist? 99.5%”
So can we attest the deaths during the Taiping Rebellion by being at the hands of a Christian? Besides, Mao was following the teachings of a Christian. As for Mao’s religious beliefs chances are he was a Buddhist seeing that it’s the majority religion in those parts. I’m not familiar with Mao’s writings so could you point me to where he stated he was an Atheist?
“Hate amendments are PURE religious laws! We arent doing away with them anytime soon that I can see.”
I’m not familiar with the hate amendment. Is this an amendment which restores all previous Blue Laws or something?
Actually, if half the the things that the progressive libs write on this blog were true, they would have to worry about Christians blowing their infidel butts up with a car bomb 24/7.
Green wood the Libs are: lots of smoke, no fire.
Doug: KFG is talking about the marriage amendments.
“Doug: KFG is talking about the marriage amendments.”
Oh, then it wasn’t a rebuttal to my point. I got the mistaken perception she thought I said all religious laws were eliminated.
True enough, you didn’t say that.
And if half the things the neocons post here were true, I would have to shoot 5 burglars a night in my home. Everyone in my house would have to take turns pulling guard duty. And our Granddaughter would be taught the joy of lesbian sex at school.
In reality, I have used my .38 once a year over the last 4 years, when I go do my yearly visit to the country to make sure I know which end to point at the target. And our Granddaughter is rightly taught that sex is an inappropriate subject for school. It should be discussed at home.
Now that we have that settled Regular, what’s the point (no pun intended)?
ANTI
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:53 am | Permalink
How many “Fundy” Christians are murderers, rapist, crack dealers, burglars, used car salesman, and lawyers?
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Interesting statistic I’m sure why don’t you tell me and also tell me many aren’t ‘fundy’ Christians.
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LLTVET
Posted July 24, 2008 at 12:21 pm | Permalink
And if half the things the neocons post here were true, I would have to shoot 5 burglars a night in my home. Everyone in my house would have to take turns pulling guard duty. And our Granddaughter would be taught the joy of lesbian sex at school.
In reality, I have used my .38 once a year over the last 4 years, when I go do my yearly visit to the country to make sure I know which end to point at the target. And our Granddaughter is rightly taught that sex is an inappropriate subject for school. It should be discussed at home.
Now that we have that settled Regular, what’s the point (no pun intended)?
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The point is, you and other Libs don’t have an original thought in your collective heads.
Mynah birds, just Mynah birds…loud, annoying
“And our Granddaughter would be taught the joy of lesbian sex at school.”
Good thing she isn’t going to school in Oregon or parts of Colorado. This is taught to 6 years olds. I had a granddaughter that was taught this. I call it social engineering and totally inappropriate for that age group. And I am called a hater for that. Wonder if they will apply that label to you?
d#mn liberals and atheists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUE65Lea6kQ&feature=related
Mao embraced communism as defined by Marxist Leninism. Such philosophical ideology was predicated upon the annilation of any allegiance that was not to state. Therefore, there was no need for the church, or any institution that threatened the power of the state. The church’s that did exist only existed as a puppet for the state. Therefore, only De-facto Atheism was permitted.
Can you show that Mao participated in an organized religion?
“Can you show that Mao participated in an organized religion?”
You’re the one claiming he’s an Atheist so it’s up to you to present something that he’s an Atheist. Simply belonging to a political party isn’t evidence a person is an Atheist. In America there is no official state religion, that doesn’t mean that every President is, therefore, an Atheist. You gotta do something better than baseless assumptions.
Hating the unbelievers is central to Saudi Arabian Wahhabi and other extremist Islamic schools.
bth
Posted July 24, 2008 at 11:00 am | Permalink
okob – I still see some of that in certain of the local “Christian” churches. Both the anti-Catholic and the anti-Jewish sentiments.
ANTI – that stone your wife idea – is that from that “Christian” group down in Texas on that ranch?
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Heh, don’t worry Ben, I hate Muslims just as much as you and Maggot hate Mormons, Christians, Jews, and Conservatives.
Maggot,
Marx hated religion. Do you dispute that? Karl Marx is the father of Communism. All the leaders of communistic countries are followers of Marx to some extent. Likewise, all the leaders of communist countries share Marx’s desire to eliminate religion as that is the only way to ensure a successful (read powerful) communist state. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Cheachescu (sp?), Chavez represent a few of the those who have carried on the Marxist Atheistic legacy. The resulting terror and loss of freedom in the countries led by the followers of Marx is evident to all.
Communism is the political enactment of an internal belief in Atheism.
Maggotpunk refuses to believe Mao was an Atheist Even though Mao sought to eliminate religion during the cultural revolution by all means possible. Since Mao sought to eliminate religion, one must ask the question, what does Mao then believe if he hated organized religion?
He was an Atheist. I digress.
He was an Atheist. I digress.
Possibly so, but the goal of the Cultural Revolution was, in effect, a cult of Mao, something most atheist would naturally regard as repulsive as any cult.
So he did have a religion.
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/ancheemin/particulars.shtml
Proof of Colorado and Oregon OKOB. Or do I get to just claim that Christians suicide bombed my tomato plants without proof?
Jesus spoke against the organized religions of the time. Was he an atheist?
Say, what was this thread about?
Funny how the atheists like Maggie always jump in to defend hate filled Islam by trying to make it a trial of Christianity. Of course, they fail, if this thread is any example, because their arguments consist primarily of ignorance, bigotry and lies.
I refuse to participate in their hate. It is their problem. They have to deal with it.
The attack Christianity to avoid the topic. It is their “go to” when they can’t defend themselves, it’s a sign of weakness and only shows their true hate.
The=They
We are attacking Christians? To defend what? Islam? That’s stupid. I don’t want to defend Islam. It’s just as fear based as Christianity is. The only religions that have a doctrine of eternal punishment.
attack both, and you are attacking two fear-based realities.
Why then on this topic, avoid the topic and go straight to Christian bashing?
To defend what? Islam?
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yes, that is stupid.
Anti – then you don’t hate Muslims at all since I don’t hate Christians etc. Another ‘Goodwins Law’ on you.
Another ‘Goodwins Law’ on you.
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I use Goodyear’s Law.
ok Anti, nice and slow.
Topic: Muslims preach hate.
Why: It is a fear based reality.
How does one address said fear based reality: By looking at all fear based realities to find a common pattern.
Are there any other fear based realities to find said common pattern:
Anti’s opinion – every religion is except christianity
LLTVet’s opinion – Islam and Christianity are because they are the only religions with a doctrine of eternal punishment for disbelief.
How are we doing so far?
LLTVET,
Today and for sometime there has not been a Christian movement which involve the following: sawing peoples heads off, stoning people(as a nation), killing homos(criminal punishment), proclaiming all non-Christians shall be killed, cutting limbs off criminals, and blowing themselves up on a daily basis.
There has been an Islamic tradition and current practice in mass though of these things.
Or perhaps you feel that this is “their culture” and we should be “tolerant” of it?
“I use Goodyear’s Law.”
The premise that the longer a discussion goes on, the more likely someone will be called a tire.
A damned, no good, dirty tire.
Absolutely not ANTI. When Did I say anything about Christian movements which involved those things?
I certainly don’t remember. I just see a pattern between what Christianity was and what Islam is. They are two religions going through their respective life cycles, one is just 700 years older than the other.
I just see a pattern between what Christianity was and what Islam is.
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Fair enough LLTVET
We are attacking Christians? To defend what? Islam? That’s stupid. I don’t want to defend Islam. It’s just as fear based as Christianity is. The only religions that have a doctrine of eternal punishment.
attack both, and you are attacking two fear-based realities.
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Got it. Attacking religion for the hell of it.
Those views of Christianity are probably more in line with Maggot’s views. I am sorry if I missunderstood you LLTVET.
As I said before Anti, remove both fear-based realities. Or at least have Isaac and Ishmael both stop fighting over a stupid piece of real estate.
fleettwood
Posted July 24, 2008 at 4:42 pm | Permalink
“I use Goodyear’s Law.”
The premise that the longer a discussion goes on, the more likely someone will be called a tire.
A damned, no good, dirty tire.
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I see you have read his papers…(peer reviewed of course)
Yes Outlander. I am going to attach Christianity because I am bored and my wife wouldn’t put out last night. You’re just too sharp for me.
ANTI, fair enough here to. I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
Let’s talk about the christian beheadings that seem to be plaguing the christian community here in on planet earth. Or the beatings that take place when one rejects christianity.
Um yeah, it doesn’t take too much observation to realize there is a stark difference between Islam and Christianity except for those who simply hate Christianity.
Hmmm… I thought you might be one that would catch it LLTVET.
Of course there is a difference RFL, Christianity has 700 more years of evolution behind it than Islam does. But they are still both the only 2 religions with a fear-based eternal punishment doctrine.
LLTVET
Posted July 24, 2008 at 1:50 pm | Permalink
Proof of Colorado and Oregon OKOB. Or do I get to just claim that Christians suicide bombed my tomato plants without proof?
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http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ544914&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ544914
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Vet for someone who appears to be educated and inquisitive you show a lack of curosity to dwelve on your own. It is easier to question the honesty of other posters.
Required reading for my sons first grade daughter was ‘Heather has two moms’ and ‘Daddy’s roommate’. When my son went to school to object he was told his daughter wasn’t ’social’ enough. They pulled her from public schools and put her in private schools. This was in Salem, OR.
so these kids arent nutcases? They would certainly strap a bomb on or blow up a clinic if they were told too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmHdBq47wF8
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Regular
Posted July 24, 2008 at 6:30 am | Permalink
This all sounds familiar, teaching hate and intolerance…oh wait…never mind. That was the UCC Church and the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
You know the minister that Osama Obama was ‘fer’ before he was ‘agin’ him.
================================================
As usual, our resident con-iver spouts his disgusting rhetoric against “Barack” Obama. While I have my doubts about his ability to lead this country, due to his limited experience, I nonetheless respect the fact the American people think well enough of him to have chosen him as the Democratic nominee for the job.
It wasn’t until Obama reached the countries stage the Reverend Jeremiah Wright started his racist rhetoric. Obama did the right thing by dropping him.
But to be fair, let’s take a look at his opposite, McCain:
On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a “strong, true, consistent conservative.” The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain’s effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a “spiritual guide.”
The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the “spiritual desperation” of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual “culture” (”homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree”), the “abortion industry,” and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.
In a chapter titled “Islam: The Deception of Allah,” Parsley warns there is a “war between Islam and Christian civilization.” He continues:
I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.
Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: “It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America.” He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: “We find now we have no choice. The time has come.” And he has bad news: “We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment.”
Parsley claims that Islam is an “anti-Christ religion” predicated on “deception.” The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, “received revelations from demons and not from the true God.” And he emphasizes this point: “Allah was a demon spirit.” Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion:
There are some, of course, who will say that the violence I cite is the exception and not the rule. I beg to differ. I will counter, respectfully, that what some call “extremists” are instead mainstream believers who are drawing from the well at the very heart of Islam.
The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion “inspired” the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans “have become Muslim” and that there are “some 1,209 mosques” in America. Islam, he declares, is a “faith that fully intends to conquer the world” through violence. The United States, he insists, “has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam,” but “history is crashing in upon us.”
At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, “Are we a Christian nation? I say yes.” Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.
Parsley, who refers to himself as a “Christocrat,” is no stranger to controversy. In 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley’s church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status.
Why would McCain court Parsley? He has long had trouble figuring out how to deal with Christian fundamentalists, an important bloc for the Republican Party. During his 2000 presidential bid, he referred to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as “agents of intolerance.” But six years later, as he readied himself for another White House run, McCain repudiated that remark. More recently, his campaign hit a rough patch when he accepted the endorsement of the Reverend John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who has called the Catholic Church “the great whore” and a “false cult system.” After the Catholic League protested and called on McCain to renounce Hagee’s support, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee praised Hagee’s spiritual leadership and support of Israel and said that “when [Hagee] endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in.” After being further criticized for his Hagee connection, McCain backed off slightly, saying, “I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee’s, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics.” But McCain did not renounce Hagee’s endorsement.
McCain’s relationship with Parsley is politically significant. In 2004, Parsley’s church was credited with driving Christian fundamentalist voters to the polls for George W. Bush. With Ohio expected to again be a decisive state in the presidential contest, Parsley’s World Harvest Church and an affiliated entity called Reformation Ohio, which registers voters, could be important players within this battleground state. Considering that the Ohio Republican Party has been decimated by various political scandals and that a popular Democrat, Ted Strickland, is now the state’s governor, McCain and the Republicans will need all the help they can get in the Buckeye State this fall. It’s a real question: Can McCain win the presidency without Parsley?
The McCain campaign did not respond to a request for comment regarding Parsley and his anti-Islam writings. Parsley did not return a call seeking comment.
“The last thing I want to be is another screaming voice moving people to extremes and provoking them to folly in the name of patriotism,” Parsley writes in Silent No More. Provoking people to holy war is another matter. About that, McCain so far is silent.
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html
Then there is John Hagee:
Abrams called particular attention to the revelation in the March 23 issue of The New York Times Magazine that McCain’s campaign sought the endorsement of anti-gay televangelist John Hagee. Though Hagee dodged a question in the Times interview about his allegation that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for a New Orleans gay pride parade, Abrams provided viewers with the audio clip of his incendiary statement. With so much invested in the 2008 election, it will be interesting to see whether there will be a national conversation about Hagee’s anti-gay rhetoric and his endorsement of McCain if the media follow the lead of Abrams and others by continuing to confront the public with the audio of his inflammatory comments.
http://glaadorg.nexcess.net/2008/03/msnbcs-dan-abrams-criticizes-m.html
Seems while Obama was publicly denouncing Wright for his blatant racial bs, McCain was seeking endorsement from two Way out there religious fruitcakes.
Point is, everybody has some skeleton in their closet. If you’re going to slam one public figure in particular, how about pointing out both sides, and doing so with at least a modicum of class.
Choosing to reject a faith or religion is every one’s perogative at least here in the free world. No need to be afraid of what happens after death if you do not believe in the faith or religion to begin with!
There is only fear if you believe in the teachings of Christ are true (that non belief equals damnation) but at the same time you reject Christ. Such a practice is intrinsically illogical which is why Vet’s assertion that Christianity is fear based is wrong.
“Funny how the atheists like Maggie always jump in to defend hate filled Islam by trying to make it a trial of Christianity.”
When have I ever defended Islam?
RFL whines:
“Marx hated religion. Do you dispute that? Karl Marx is the father of Communism. All the leaders of communistic countries are followers of Marx to some extent. Likewise, all the leaders of communist countries share Marx’s desire to eliminate religion as that is the only way to ensure a successful (read powerful) communist state. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Cheachescu (sp?), Chavez represent a few of the those who have carried on the Marxist Atheistic legacy. The resulting terror and loss of freedom in the countries led by the followers of Marx is evident to all.
Communism is the political enactment of an internal belief in Atheism.
Maggotpunk refuses to believe Mao was an Atheist Even though Mao sought to eliminate religion during the cultural revolution by all means possible. Since Mao sought to eliminate religion, one must ask the question, what does Mao then believe if he hated organized religion?”
For one Marx was a Christian so it’s kinda pointless bringing him up. Atheism is a position that there are no gods, it isn’t a political position. To say Communism reflects Atheism you might as well say plumbing reflects Atheism because god isn’t being used to weld pipes together.
You haven’t presented anything that shows Mao is an Atheist. Simply being the head of a country doesn’t prove that he’s an Atheist. I’m sure if you had something factual to present you would have by now. Thanks for playing but when you have an actual point to make rather than rehashing 1950s Red Scare paranoia I may pay attention.
I’m afraid I don’t see anything there that resembles the “joys of lesbian sex” All I see is a textbook about lesbian family life.
But I will tell you what Observer. I will admit that you have a point about the books. They shouldn’t be required reading. If you admit that you exagerated a weeeee bit and that it doesn’t match the satire I gave about the “joys of lesbian sex.” AGREED?
RFL: You said it yourself, the fear comes from the belief. Christianity is based on said belief. Just as Islam is based on their said belief that Allah will punish the infidel. Ergo, the religions are both fear based. Hence, members of those religions will act according to the evolution of those fear based realities.
Quad-Era-Demonstrata.
I think the argument is over now. PZ Myers just stabbed Jesus with a rusty nail and threw him in the trash. That about wraps it up for god.
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RFL
Posted July 24, 2008 at 7:36 am | Permalink
Praising Jesus does not equal hating unbelievers.
Maybe Maggotpunk should give up dishing out his hate based lies and spend more time with his favorite Atheist based charitable organization.
Oh yea, they don’t exist. Athiests do not know the meaning of charity.
=================================================
I beg to differ. While I am not an Atheist, they can and do give to many charities, Bill Gates being one of the most generous. I would suggest, rfl, you bone up on the subject you decide to preach about before making blanket statements you have no chance of backing up:
Those Damn Atheists/Agnostics, They Don’t Do Charity!
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
We all know atheists/agnostics are incapable of good works… wait, what?
“Gates charity to help battle polio worldwide”
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation announced Monday that it would give $100 million to Rotary International’s efforts to eradicate polio worldwide. It is the foundation’s largest such grant.
Wow, all that money to help people he doesn’t even know, he must be a christian, he must have a personal god, Jesus must be his Saviour.
Bill Gates must believe in god, he has been ‘blessed’ with all that money, right?
Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits.
Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?
Gates: I don’t. I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I’m a huge believer in. There’s a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.
Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you’d say you don’t know?
Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.
Gates was profiled in a January 13, 1996 TIME magazine cover story. Here are some excerpts compiled by the Drudge Report:
“Isn’t there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?” interviewer Walter Isaacson asks Gates “His face suddenly becomes expressionless,” writes Isaacson, “his squeaky voice turns toneless, and he folds his arms across his belly and vigorously rocks back and forth in a mannerism that has become so mimicked at MICROSOFT that a meeting there can resemble a round table of ecstatic rabbis.”
“I don’t have any evidence on that,” answers Gates. “I don’t have any evidence of that.”
He later states, “Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.”
Surely the Gates Foundation’s other large donor, Warren Buffet must be ’saved’, surely he hits his knees and prays for guidance from the lord above.
“He did not subscribe to his family’s religion. Even at a young age he was too mathematical, too logical, to make the leap of faith. He adopted his father’s ethical underpinnings, but not his belief in an unseen divinity.” –from Buffett: The Making of an American Capitalist, by Roger Lowenstein (Doubleday, 1995), page 13.
Hmmm….. it just seems that one can do good with or without a ‘god’. Belief in invisible friends is not a necessity to feel compassion and empathy and such beliefs are certainly not a requirement to make an effort to help the world’s less fortunate. The Gates Foundation seems to be doing more to help the world than Joyce Meyer and her $23,000 toilets.
All you bible thumpers remember, the next time you are bashing on atheists, just because we don’t belong to your tithing club or find good reason to believe in unseen deities does not mean we are incapable of good will and acts of charity.
http://gateskeepers.civiblog.org/blog/_archives/2007/12/14/3413878.html
MP, I can’t condone your last post. No offense to you. But please don’t give them ammunition to call non-Christians immature.
I don’t want them getting the idea that they are somehow morally superior to us.
Agreed Walker. I think our little girl Yuranis in Columbia is quite happy about the fact that my wife and I support her family through Children’s International. OK, it’s only $22 a month.
Maggie; Immature? Have you seen him on his website?
I can’t imagine how anyone could ever get that idea.
I see how you are morally superior to him Outlander.
Thank you for proving my point.
It’s quitting time. Have fun folks.
“I don’t want them getting the idea that they are somehow morally superior to us.”
I don’t think anything I post will ever change their views on that. Keep in mind their Bible says that everything a non-believer does is evil. So if I help old ladies across the street I’m doing evil, but if a Christian does it then it’s moral. Heck, even the Bible says slavery is good because it teaches good morals to the slaves.
I don’t think desecrating a cracker is going to change anything.
“So if I help old ladies across the street I’m doing evil, but if a Christian does it then it’s moral.”
That doesn’t even make sense.
LLTVET
Posted July 24, 2008 at 5:12 pm | Permalink
I’m afraid I don’t see anything there that resembles the “joys of lesbian sex” All I see is a textbook about lesbian family life.
But I will tell you what Observer. I will admit that you have a point about the books. They shouldn’t be required reading. If you admit that you exagerated a weeeee bit and that it doesn’t match the satire I gave about the “joys of lesbian sex.” AGREED?
———————-
I’ll give you that. But I said at the time and say now social engineering has no place in our schools. I have said creationism should not be taught in public schools. Public schools are to educate not indoctrinate.
Most 6 years olds don’t know ‘joys of sex’ let alone ‘joys of lesbian sex’.
“That doesn’t even make sense.”
Naturally, Christian morals don’t make sense but I get reminded by Christians every April 1st about that Bible passage, so they must mean it.
Christians believe you can do a good deed and it is laudable, but you will burn if you do not accept Christ as your Savior. There is a difference.
Christians believe you can do a good deed and it is laudable, but you will burn if you do not accept Christ as your Savior. There is a difference.
Meaning the overwhelming majority on Earth will burn in Hell, no matter how much good they’ve done in their lives.
The Palestians run childrens cartoons that are pure propaganda against Jews.
Also, there are some “Wahabi” type schools in America, as well.
Wahabi America:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1203757/posts
Wahabi America:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1203757/posts
Wahabi America is freerepublic.com?
Heh, I’d go along with that!
“Meaning the overwhelming majority on Earth will burn in Hell, no matter how much good they’ve done in their lives.”
That would be a yes.
Very funny
If you would check the link, FR is reprinting from the Jereuselem Post.
I don’t think anything I post will ever change their views on that. Keep in mind their Bible says that everything a non-believer does is evil. So if I help old ladies across the street I’m doing evil, but if a Christian does it then it’s moral. Heck, even the Bible says slavery is good because it teaches good morals to the slaves.
—————–
I like Maggie. Because he is so darn predictable. He likes to pretend to know the Bible. He will make an ignorant statement, or more often an out and out lie, and then have some out of context, or misinterpreted, or OT verse, or all three, ready to spring on someone who calls him on it.
I think he does it to convince himself his path is the right one and to make himself feel superior. But he sure doesn’t convince anyone here and largely just clogs up threads.
Obviously, just my opinion.
Rage
Posted July 24, 2008 at 9:57 am | Permalink
“Pass the Lord, and praise the ammunition. . .”
You make me sick, Rage. You so cleverly (not) twist the words of a famous American saying that you probably have no idea as to the true origin of. You try to paint followers of Christ as war mongers who prefer war to peace. You are wrong as you are about most everything else. But there are times to fight. One such time was Sunday morning December 7th, 1941. A young Navy Chaplain was preparing to lead Sunday Services when bombs and torpedos started going off all around Pearl Harbor. His ship the Heavy Cruiser USS New Orleans was undergoing engine room repairs and had no power to run the ammunition hoists that brought the shells up to the guns. The ships crew formed lines to hand up the shells and the Chaplain joined in. He said, “we can’t have Church today fellows so praise the Lord and pass the ammunition”. The press heard about it and reported what the Chaplain had done and said. “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition” became an early rallying cry in the first days of the war. It was even made into a hit song.
As for the question, “how many times does the Bible say hate, detest, kill, destroy”? Well I don’t know. But I do know that Christ never commands his followers to do any of those things. Well, He does say to detest evil things (abortion, homosexuality and all other perverted things). By the way, He means to detest the “act” of homosexuality, not the persons doing it who are sinners just like I am. We are told to spread the good news about Christs salvation and to make disciples of all the world. No where are we told that if they refuse, kill them.
Chris, the new version of the couplet (courtesy of Firesign Theatre) is more appropriate to much of the American military engagments of the past 50 years.
You always make me sick, Chris, so I was only returning the favor.
, . .particularly under George W. Bush.
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fleettwood
Posted July 24, 2008 at 5:56 pm | Permalink
Christians believe you can do a good deed and it is laudable, but you will burn if you do not accept Christ as your Savior. There is a difference.
===================================================
So now we have a blogger passing judgment on all who disagree with his beliefs, and we will all burn in hell for doing so. Hey fleet, since you seem to think you are God himself, how about dropping the price of gas to, oh, say, about $0.20 a gallon. I mean if you can pass judgment on humanity, gas prices should be a piece of cake.
“I like Maggie. Because he is so darn predictable. He likes to pretend to know the Bible. He will make an ignorant statement, or more often an out and out lie, and then have some out of context, or misinterpreted, or OT verse, or all three, ready to spring on someone who calls him on it.”
I often get told that I’m taking something out of context yet the believer never explains why. It’s just the typical reaction fundies give when exposed to the truth of their scripture. Not that it’s anything new. If more people read there Bible there would be a lot more Atheists.
What kind of a person is so nasty to others and hateful they can’t keep a job….”Dig Doug Deeper” professor of moral authority A.K.A. Maggotpunk. In his own words, I quote, “I’ve been a news reporter, youth counselor, computer technician, assistant teacher and librarian. After all this I found out I really can’t keep a job.”…Sounds like you are an outcast of society. Held and supported by your only freinds, also degenerates. You can read more at his link…
I find it odd that you, Maggotpunk, feel the need to tell others that they are hateful people when it is you that spews hate 24/7. Perhaps you will find love in the arms of BlueJay. I think you to chaps would make a great couple…wink, wink. “D-Cubed poses as a heterosexual.”
The Moral authority on life:
http://www.maggotpunks.com/MTP/ddd05.jpg
I think you to chaps=I think you two chaps…
Sorry for the spelling ‘dubya’SClark if you are still here.
P.S. Hope your dad is O.K., take your time and make it count! I wish you the best.
“We are told to spread the good news about Christs salvation and to make disciples of all the world.”
Heheheheheheheheheeh. HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEEEEEEEE…
Um, how’ that workin’ for you all?
You spread a lot of news, but I dont recall much of it being good.
And I see how you all make more disciples every day. On and off this blog. Seems like you all drive more folks away from Christ than you ever bring to him.
Yeah. You make it all so attractive and yourself such appealing folks to be in community with.
Not.
But keep up the good work. Hell aint half full yet and your church coffers still arent stuffed!
I gotta say, its not just the islamic schools but also the hardline Jewish schools in Israel too.
and you should read evilbible chris(tian) fundy from mac.
Well?
I’m told and have heard much about these scary Muslims.
I don’t know any scary Muslims.
I DO know many very unpleasant to be around Christians.
totally enjoyed coming upon this article, it’s definitely a text I wish to come back to!