Retired Gen. Wesley Clark wasn’t wrong in noting how John McCain’s military service does not automatically qualify him to be commander in chief, but he sounded disrespectful of that service in saying on CBS’s “Face the Nation” that he doesn’t think “riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.” A spokesman for Barack Obama said Monday that Obama “honors and respects Sen. McCain’s service, and of course, he rejects yesterday’s statement by Gen. Clark.”
In a speech Monday in Missouri, Obama paid tribute to McCain, who he said “endured physical torment in service to our country.” Obama also vowed not to question the patriotism of others during the presidential campaign but said that he would “not stand idly by when I hear others question mine.”
67 Comments
Wheres the Pin????? Bush lied, Obama lied. Experience at its worst. McCain, for Presdident. Herbert West III, Democratic Candidate for Sheriff, Miami County Kansas. west.herb@yahoo.com http://www.wen2k.com
I wonder if this is the new Obama election strategy. Send out an attack dog and then the candidate can rebuff the statements. It would not be the first time something like that was done.
General Wesley Clark is obviously pandering to Democrats. Perhaps he wants to be appointed to a cabinet position. Shame on him for making light of being a prisoner of war and being subjected to torture. Suggest we send Clark to be a guest of the Taliban for several years.
Talk about pandering!! “Maverick (NOT) McCain voted with Bushco 95% of the time. We look at his proposals and we see more of the same failed policies. Wesley Clark lets the Obama campaign put words in his mouth? HA! That’s rich…
Sorry folks, just because you’ve worn a uniform doesn’t mean you deserve to be worshipped. As the cliche’ from Hannity goes, “thanks for your service” but it doesn’t mean that you’re not a dick.
And just cause you’ve a flag on your lapel doesn’t prove you have a frigging clue as to what a real patriot is or does.
Bandwagon patriot’s: Been lovin’ America since 9,11,01.
Obama’s a class act. Too bad McCain won’t show him the same respect. That would be refreshing for a change…two candidates who focus more on the issues than “swiftboating” on each other.
I recall all the hype about Colin Powell for president and raising the question then if his military service could translate to president. Many people pointed to Eisenhouer - I also noted Grant. Ike had a whole lot more experience AFTER WW2 that seasoned him - Powell did not. And McCain has even less.
Should we salute McCain for his service to America - ABSOLUTELY! However, does that automatically qualify him to be president? No. His primary qualifications in that arena will be his time in the Senate and his record/positions there - for good or for bad.
What General Wesley Clark actually said: “I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world.”
mediamatters.org/items/200806300002?f=h_top
Clark just lost my respect. Like Obama would know squat about putting his life on the line for our country! It does make a difference when your Commander in Chief, if you’ve worn that uniform, and been subject to the actions of the idiots in Washington DC who control you!
Most presidents have served. It’s not mandatory, but it’s common.
I like Bill Clinton, didn’t at the time because I was following the Republican talking points like a blind sheep. But he was a good President who didn’t serve. GW on the other hand did serve and was a loser.
But you don’t minimalize what McCain went through, and speak about it with such disrespect! And you can bet your bottom dollar that attack was coordinated very carefully with the Obama campaign. Sling mud to make people think, then push back with the candidate coming forth as a patriotic gentleman! BULL! I’ll guarantee you Obama sat in a room and helped plan this whole thing!
Look people, Obama is a Chicago Democrate! I KNOW THEM, I lived and worked among them! To top it all off, he is black. YES, race does matter, because black chicago democrates HATE white people. Maybe Barack is more moderate, but I can guarantee you that his wife refers to us whities as “crackers” every chance she gets. They have a plan, to take back from whitie, to loot our treasury through no questions asked welfare, and entitlements, through taxing the rich out of existance. etc… I could go on all day.
Barack Hussain Obama is NO Michael Jordan, he is NO Tiger Woods, he is NO Colin Powell, he is NO Condi Rice, he is a BLACK Chicago Democrate! Nothing could be worse!
What Obama Said About McCain:
(INDEPENDENCE, Missouri) Barack Obama used his speech on patriotism today to defend John McCain’s military service…
“For those who have fought under the flag of this nation – for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country – no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary,” Obama said. “And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides.”
Keep it up, SemperFeeFiFoFum… you are a credit to your race (of cretins)
The right won’t vote for Colin Powell because they look at him as a traitor to Bush, just like they did to Kerry when Kerry spoke about what was really happening.
I think that what Clark was trying to say, is that getting shot down isn’t exactly mission accomplished. He has no real combat experience other than that. We call that a mission failure.
NOT that saying that denegrades his experience any way whatsoever, it happens. Even the best have get shot down eventually. He is still a hero for what he endured, no matter what happened there-including telling the enemy things he shouldn’t had. I don’t think less of him, he was in one hell of a hard spot.
And whats worse really, is the fact that he keeps voting against those who SHOULD support him the most- veterans. And they don’t because of his voting record against them. That doesn’t exactly do well for his support the troops image.
Kerry did not do anything wrong, he testified about the things that our soldiers were doing illegally which is directly related to why we lost that war in the first place. Its why we have stricter laws now (well we did till Bushit took over). If you really want to know why the people who we’re supposed to be rescuing start fighting against us, don’t you think the actions of our soldiers against their people have something to do with it?
You cons took him apart over his hero status. It’d be like me saying that McCain faked his injuries in the Hanoi Hilton. What you did to Kerry was wrong, WRONG. We’ll never get past this to being respectful to soldiers till you realize that.
I’m not going to go easy on McC*nt because of what you did to Kerry. you set the bar.
Jim Webb officially called BS to all of the NEOCONS who tried to convince me that McCain actually supported the improvement in the GI Bill.
Webb said it very specifically, that McCain faught it tooth and nail and offered nothing to replace it.
Webb made it very clear that he had to attach it to a war funding bill and couldn’t get it as a clean bill.
And when Dubya tried to take credit for it along with trying to give credit to McCain. BS
Let me guess. Webb is a liberal. That is why he said those things. BS
Oh, it was because Webb was on Countdown so he started lying. If he had been on O’Reilley he would have told the truth. BS
McCain needs to tell Dubya to stick it and start remembering where he came from. NOW!!!!
In practical terms, John Sidney McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) was drafted.
His daddy was an admiral. His grand-daddy was an admiral. You think he was raised to become a Fuller Brush Man?
Please.
But McCain was raised in a family of privilege and expected to be “special.” No telling how may strings were pulled to get him into Annapolis; all we know is he got out ahead of only four other plebes. Where are they these days?
Before “maverick” became an accolade McC*nt’s reputation would have most likely be “renegade.”
He got away with crashing a bunch of expensive fighter jets and thought he was better than the North Vietnamese who shot him down.
We’ll never know for sure if McBush got special treatment from the North Vietnamese because he was the Admiral’s son. And we’ll never know if “special treatment” from the North Vietnamese was a walk in the park or not.
Thing is:
Getting shot down isn’t a resume item for most jobs; why should it be important for the most important job in the world?
Seems to me, that was all Wesley Clark was saying.
Speaking of military incompetence, did anybody else see the article in yesterday’s Eagle?
http://www.kansas.com/news/nation_world/story/449424.html
But more than six months later, the Special Operations forces are still waiting for the green light. The plan has been held up in Washington by the very disagreements it was meant to eliminate. A senior Defense Department official said there was mounting frustration in the Pentagon at the continued delay.
After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, President Bush committed the nation to a “war on terrorism” and said he was making the destruction of bin Laden’s network the top priority of his presidency. But it is increasingly clear that the Bush administration will leave office with al-Qaida having successfully relocated its base from Afghanistan to Pakistan’s tribal areas, where it has rebuilt much of its ability to attack from the region and broadcast its messages to militants across the world.
*****
Another classic Bush move by
Worst.
President.
Ever.
Heh
Hell, Wesley Clark practically gave McCain a pass.
I mean really. DISASTER follows John McCain like a hungry puppy. HE was sitting in the plane that set off one of the most fatal aircraft carrier accidents in history.
And his time as a prisoner of war? THAT certainly does not speak well for making him a dog catcher let alone President.
John McCain needs tender care and understanding people around him. He is likely broken in ways even HE does not fully know.
The bottom line is that McCain’s tenure as a POW is not part of a package that makes him qualified for the presidency.
It has zip to do with qualifications for the highest office in the land.
That is not denigrating McCain’s experiences, that is just a fact.
John McCain is more like the ‘Sad Sack’ of the military. He seems to have a cloud following him around.
Two POW’s that were held at the same time as McCain said McCain was kept at the camp known as “The Plantation”, where pow’s weren’t known to be tortured, and in fact was a holding camp for those pow’s going to be released.
No wonder McCain insisted Viet Nam not release POW’s confinement records.
Two POW’s that were held at the same time as McCain said McCain was kept at the camp known as “The Plantation”, where pow’s weren’t known to be tortured, and in fact was a holding camp for those pow’s going to be released.
Di I detect the beginnings of HHVT organization?
Obama is a cowardly act, not a “class act” —
Wesley Clark is working on behalf of Obama.
Patriotism?
Huh?
Wesley Clark did not even bring up “patriotism” — but now Obama wants to tell us not to “attack” his
“patriotism”??
Where did that come from?
Come on, this is a planned political strategy..
Degrade and downplay McCain’s military service, through surrogates.
Then, Obama can “play nice” and go for some kind of “moral equivalence” by bringing up the “patriotism” issue, which was not, really, in play to begin with.
I should say that “patriotism” was not in play, as far at the Wesley Clark comments were concerned.
Experience was the issue.
Obama has none.
McCain DOES!
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bth
Posted July 1, 2008 at 10:54 am | Permalink
Two POW’s that were held at the same time as McCain said McCain was kept at the camp known as “The Plantation”, where pow’s weren’t known to be tortured, and in fact was a holding camp for those pow’s going to be released.
Di I detect the beginnings of HHVT organization?
—————————
Yeah Ben, I’m sure McCain’s stay at the luxury accommodations in North Vietnam were equivalent to a five star hotel.
You know, fresh cut flowers, mints under his pillow and catered room service.
Heck Ben, I’m sure you’d be willing to trade places with McCain for his time spent in North Vietnam prison camps.
Right Ben?
Ben?
Oh Ben?
Tell me you really wanted to spend time as a POW in North Vietnam?
Ben? Oh Ben???????????????????????????????????
McCain, to be sure, is very qualified to bring more disaster upon our once great nation.
Pmom
Kerry “testified” ??
Kerry lied.
Kerry did NOT witness what he said that he saw.
Kerry was STILL in the military, when Kerry made many of his anti-military comments.
Kerry was an OFFICER with an even higher duty to seek prosecutions, under the UCMJ, for any “crimes” that he actually had evidence about or actually witnessed.
Kerry is a fraud and a liar.
Kerry was discharged, originally, under less than Honorable conditions and had his discharge upgraded by the Carter Amnesty Program.
There is NO equivelence between questioning Kerry’s past (especially after Kerry came back from Vietnam) and questioning McCain’s past.
Don’t you get it, PMOM? If Kerry told the truth about the “crimes” he saw, Kerry had a duty to PROSECUTE those crimes, or see that they were prosecuted.
Kerry did not, because Kerry made up most of what he said.
hehehe
no wonder you anal dwelling fundie freaks don’t care for the heroic General Clark why he’s edumacated
Wesley Kanne Clark (born December 23, 1944) is a retired General of the United States Army. Clark was valedictorian of his class at West Point, was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford where he obtained a degree in PPE (Philosophy, Politics & Economics), and later graduated from the Command and General Staff College with a master’s degree in military science. He spent 34 years in the Army and the Department of Defense, receiving many military decorations, several honorary knighthoods, and a Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Clark commanded Operation Allied Force in the Kosovo War during his term as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO from 1997 to 2000. Some of Clark’s command decisions during the conflict, such as his statements at press briefings and his actions at Priština International Airport, were heavily criticized. At times, he had a difficult relationship with Secretary of Defense William Cohen and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Hugh Shelton, which led to rumors Clark was forced into retirement, though both he and the Department of Defense said his retirement was merely standard personnel movement.
Clark joined the 2004 race for the Democratic Party presidential nomination as a candidate on September 17, 2003, but withdrew from the primary race on February 11, 2004, after winning the Oklahoma state primary, endorsing and campaigning for the eventual Democratic nominee, John Kerry. Clark currently leads a political action committee — “WesPAC: Securing America” — which was formed after the primaries,[1] and used it to support numerous Democratic Party candidates in the 2006 midterm elections.[2] Clark was considered a potential candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2008, but, on September 15, 2007, endorsed Senator Hillary Clinton.[3] After Clinton dropped out of the Presidential race, Clark endorsed the presumptive Democratic nominee, Barack Obama.[4]
Contents
Clarke was also known in the military as a world class douche bag, he hasn’t changed.
regular - of course not. How about you? I’m sure you would happily take Max McClellan’s wheelchair.
I’m simply noting what a couple of veterans of those camps are reporting. If you don’t like it complain to them. However, I would suspect that THEY would have happily traded places with McCain.
Degrade and downplay Clarke’s military service,
Clarke was also known in the military as a world class douche bag
Regular. Talking out of both sides of your mouth? You support the military and then you condemn it?
I thought that was the wrong thing to do
annie - note how the righties have to degrade and downplay Clarke’s service. But watch them squel like pigs when anything is said about their heroes.
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bth
Posted July 1, 2008 at 11:51 am | Permalink
regular - of course not. How about you? I’m sure you would happily take Max McClellan’s wheelchair.
I’m simply noting what a couple of veterans of those camps are reporting. If you don’t like it complain to them. However, I would suspect that THEY would have happily traded places with McCain.
———————–
Yeah, these veteran’s you keep quoting appear to have no names.
How convenient for them and you.
The same righties who tell me that I speak out of both sides of my mouth unless I support Dubya.
Very true VET - remember, your service in a combat zone counts for nothing unless you toe the party line.
Oh, I’m just responding to Regular’s caveman quote on the Rove thread. Please feel free to read it Ben. According to Regular. I can’t support the military without supporting some draft dodging daddy’s boy.
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LLTVET
Posted July 1, 2008 at 11:57 am | Permalink
The same righties who tell me that I speak out of both sides of my mouth unless I support Dubya.
—————————-
No one is telling you to support Dubya, especially not me.
What I’m saying is that one shouldn’t say they support the military then pivot and not support the military.
This is what Kerry did. Kerry rejected all things military until he ran in 2004.
Kerry was ‘agin’ the military before he was ‘fer’ it.
Hypocritical slime politician is what that is.
Wesley Clark was SURE Saddam had WMD’s:
“This is in sharp contrast to statements Clark made as a commentator on CNN before the bombing last year. In January, Clark told CNN, “He [Hussein] does have weapons of mass destruction.” When asked, “And you could say that categorically?” Clark responded: “Absolutely.”
In February, Clark told CNN, “The credibility of the United States is on the line, and Saddam Hussein has these weapons and so, you know, we’re going to go ahead and do this and the rest of the world’s got to get with us…The U.N. has got to come in and belly up to the bar on this. But the president of the United States has put his credibility on the line, too. And so this is the time that these nations around the world, and the United Nations, are going to have to look at this evidence and decide who they line up with.”
Immediately following the fall of Baghdad to US forces, Clark responded to a question about finding the alleged weapons of mass destruction, saying: “I think they will be found. There’s so much intelligence on this.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/1/26/exclusive_democracy_now_confronts_wesley_clark
Wesley Clark is also accused of speeding up a cockpit camera, so that the bombing of a train would look “accidental” —
Clark is accused of targeting civilians, by some people.
Was Clark in charge, when the United States bombed the Chinese embassy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade
I do not sit in judgement of Wesley Clark, but you libs would hate Clark for much of what Clark has said and done.
But, Clark goes after McCain, so the libs now give Clark a pass?
“There’s so much intelligence on this”
Which is why Pat Roberts kept the report on abuse of intel bottled up for so long,
Oh, so how did John Kerry reject all things military? Am I rejecting all things military?
What is the difference between standing up for the troops against a goat screw of a war. As opposed to rejecting all things military?
Did John McCain reject all things Military when he considered Donald Rumsfeld incompetent?
This I gotta hear.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 1, 2008 at 12:14 pm | Permalink
Oh, so how did John Kerry reject all things military? Am I rejecting all things military?
What is the difference between standing up for the troops against a goat screw of a war. As opposed to rejecting all things military?
Did John McCain reject all things Military when he considered Donald Rumsfeld incompetent?
This I gotta hear.
———————–
Now you’re just arm flailing.
Try and focus please.
stop stalling Regular. How did John Kerry reject all things military?
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LLTVET
Posted July 1, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
stop stalling Regular. How did John Kerry reject all things military?
——————————–
Oh I’m sure you can figure it out LLVET - early 70s, Winter Soldiers, false testimony before Congress.
Blue Job
“HE was sitting in the plane that set off one of the most fatal aircraft carrier accidents in history.”
Check your history dude? The missile that set off the fire came from a plane at the other end of the flight deck.
by “figure it out” meaning think like you do with only hints. NAAAH. Why don’t we start with this False testimony.
Of course that would be purgery if it can be proven. I suppose he must have been pardoned for his “False testimony”
#
LLTVET
Posted July 1, 2008 at 12:28 pm | Permalink
Of course that would be purgery if it can be proven. I suppose he must have been pardoned for his “False testimony”
————————
He used the false testimony of the Winter soldiers, who turned out to be (A)Not Vietnam Vets (B)Not ever in the military (C)Were never stationed in those combat areas they claimed to be.
And Yes, the Winter Soldiers were investigated by the FBI.
Instead of re-inventing the wheel, here is a very nice article explaining why there was no Congressional investigation.
(probably the same reason Ted Kennedy got away with negligent homicide)
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/investigate_the_winter_soldier.html
LLVET
Kerry WAS pardoned, by the Carter Amnesty Program.
John Kerry got a LESS THAN HONORABLE DISCHARGE.
We will probably never know the precise reasons, but speaking against your government, while in the military, and meeting with the enemy, without authorization, and making false charges, agains the military might have been mentioned, in Kerry’s original discharge paperwork.
Kerry will NOT release his military records, so we don’t know exactly what happened.
However, Navy Secretary William Claytor, who served under President Jimmy Carter, did grant John Kerry an upgrade of his original discharge.
This is a fact!
Type “John Kerry Navy Secretary Claytor” into your browser:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=5339
John Kerry was punished for his lies and for his behavior, but President Carter granted amnesty to Kerry.
Regular
Posted July 1, 2008 at 11:51 am | Permalink
Clarke was also known in the military as a world class douche bag, he hasn’t changed.
Yeah right — thats how he made 4 stars and was a presidential candidate ……. how about a little proof ———
Ya gotta wonder where Gen Pace is these days ?
Foe a marine general why did many in the corps call him p*s*y pace — for his unfetterred support for a plan he knew was flawed …… heard lots of lip smacking every time he was with WPE
Kerry should have waiting until he got out. I will give you that. You said that he gave up on all things military. You still haven’t shown that. Just tap-danced around it.
“You said that he gave up on all things military.”
He did throw his medals away. Oh….no wait…those were someone elses medals.
“And Yes, the Winter Soldiers were investigated by the FBI.”
And how many successful prosecutions came of it. Being investigated by the FBI means nothing.
Didn’t the 9/11 ‘Person of Interest’ become a rich man because of Ashcroft’s bungling?
I mean the guy that was suspected of sending the anthrax!
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Indie
Posted July 1, 2008 at 12:41 pm | Permalink
Regular
Posted July 1, 2008 at 11:51 am | Permalink
Clarke was also known in the military as a world class douche bag, he hasn’t changed.
Yeah right — thats how he made 4 stars and was a presidential candidate ……. how about a little proof ———
Ya gotta wonder where Gen Pace is these days ?
Foe a marine general why did many in the corps call him p*s*y pace — for his unfetterred support for a plan he knew was flawed …… heard lots of lip smacking every time he was with WPE
————————————–
According to WWII soldiers, Patton was a douche bag as well. Serving for his own glory at the sacrifice of others.
Clark was a self serving, self glorifying prima dona.
I bet McCain was the “Uncle Tom” at the Plantation. With a code name like Songbird, you know he was one tough customer!
Chortles.
“Clark was a self serving, self glorifying prima dona.”
Thank you for your service, MR. rear echelon supply clerk. When I was was in the USAF we used to say ” what’s the difference between the AF and the boy scouts?” The boy scouts had adult supervision…. chortle snort giggle laugh
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annie_moose
Posted July 1, 2008 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
“Clark was a self serving, self glorifying prima dona.”
Thank you for your service, MR. rear echelon supply clerk. When I was was in the USAF we used to say ” what’s the difference between the AF and the boy scouts?” The boy scouts had adult supervision…. chortle snort giggle laugh
——————–
You were in the Air Force as a supply clerk?
Surely you have heard of combat controllers and security police combat teams?
How about pilots and their aircrew who fly over hazardous areas getting fired upon?
Yeah, I heard those comments as well. Air Force has a different misson than the Army, Navy or Marines.
Unless you are saying that air strikes don’t really do anything and all those support personnel that are highly trained to handle weapons and avionics systems are mere children.
Of course, I could chalk up your comment just as typical liberal snark, which by the way, it is.
“According to WWII soldiers, Patton was a douche bag as well. Serving for his own glory at the sacrifice of others.”
Actually, I’ve met a couple of people who served with Patton. They were grateful for him. His very aggressiveness kept more of his men alive (according to the two veterans I talked to). On the other hand, they had much less kind words about Montgomery. Of course, others may have different views.
As for Franklin, he is up to his usual shilling, I see. One line paragraphs, each an assertion advanced with seeming complete confidence of its truth.
http://www.factcheck.org/swift_boat_veterans_anti-kerry_ad_he_betrayed.html
As for the status of Kerry’s “original” discharge. Here is a source that I will admit is not unbiased, but it at least balances out the crap that Franklin puts out uncritically (note Franklin, my pointing out that this source IS biased, that is how one puts something out critically).
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/22/22312/300/202/413727
Agnatha
Your posts prove nothing.
I notice that you do not dispute my proven facts:
1.) John Kerry has NOT released all of his military records.
2.) John Kerry did speak and act against the United States Military while still a member of the military.
3.) John Kerry did meet with our enemies, without the permission of his chain of command, while still a Reserve Officer in the Navy.
4.) John Kerry absolutely DID have a special discharge or “Board of Officers” meeting that would ONLY be held under Jimmy Carter’s Amnesty Program to upgrade a Less Than Honorable Discharge.
You have proven nothing.
I have proven my points.
John Kerry can only prove me wrong by releasing his entire military record, — that is, if I am wrong.
John Kerry released PARTIAL records which clearly indicated that Jimmy Carter, several years AFTER Vietnam, was involved in John Kerry’s final discharge paperwork.
Can you disprove anything in this post?
Rossell has a terminal hard on for John Kerry - it must be exceedingly painful after FOUR years.
Agnatha
You AND “Daily Kos” need to do your own homework.
Your posts and “proof” are laughable.
For one thing, the DD-214 that John Kerry first posted, on his website, lists a “Silver Star with a Combat V” which does NOT exist.
There is NO SUCH AWARD in the United States Military. This mistake, alone, brings that document into question. Was it an outright forgery? Or, more likely, was it created several years after the Vietnam War, by a Clerk who did not have any experience with combat decorations?
Why does that matter?
Because if Kerry had his original discharge upgraded, Kerry might have had to have SEVERAL documents redone, to cover up his past. This might have been perfectly legal. I do not know because Kerry will not release his entire file!
Furthermore, I have not said that John Kerry received a dishorable or less than honorable discharge from ACTIVE DUTY.
I am, honestly, not sure on that point.
I am absolutely sure that John Kerry’s ORIGINAL discharge, from RESERVE duty, was LESS than Honorable.
Note that the DD-214 that Kerry posted clearly states that Kerry was released to RESERVE DUTY:
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/jodhn.htm
Where are the records which show the status of Kerry’s discharge from RESERVE DUTY?
All we have is the reference to Navy Secretary Claytor, who handled Jimmy Carter’s Amnesty Program for people, like Kerry, who wanted to upgrade their discharge paperwork.
No one should ever discount John McCain’s service, or the sacrifices he made as a POW in another ill-conceived war where political expediency trumped over military command advice.
That was then. This is now:
–Talks about limiting the influence of special interests… then makes nearly all the top officials of his campaign lobbyists–who are still servicing clients.
–Likes to talk about his service… then does that number on the GI bill.
–Can you say, “only Republican member of the Keating Five”?
–Says he’s independent… then takes more money from Cox than anybody else. Who does he think he is, the Wichita Eagle?
“You were in the Air Force as a supply clerk?”
no reg,
I was a manly afsc 432×0 a jet engine mech. with a secret security clearance so I could guard classified things with my empty M16.
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annie_moose
Posted July 1, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
“You were in the Air Force as a supply clerk?”
no reg,
I was a manly afsc 432×0 a jet engine mech. with a secret security clearance so I could guard classified things with my empty M16.
——————————
Then you were a valued member of the maintenance team.
Mechanics and Avionic techs are not trained specifically as combat infantryman.
Your comparison to relate the Air Force to direct combat is irrelevant and a grossly antiquated concept of how wars are waged in these modern times.
“I am absolutely sure that John Kerry’s ORIGINAL discharge, from RESERVE duty, was LESS than Honorable.”
Then PROVE it Rossell.
Saw this on another blog, thought it fit nicely here:
Fake Outrage Over Clark Comments
By Joe Conason
Despite all the feigned outrage fanned by the mainstream media and the right-wing noisemakers, Wesley Clark—retired four-star general, former supreme commander of NATO, wounded and highly decorated veteran of ground combat in Vietnam and a military man to his core—assuredly did not denigrate the war record of John McCain when he talked about the Republican candidate on television last Sunday.
Instead, perhaps naively, Gen. Clark stated a very simple fact. McCain’s service in Vietnam doesn’t prove his aptitude or competence to serve in the nation’s highest office. Or as he told “Face the Nation” host Bob Schieffer on CBS: “I don’t think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.”
Nor, with all due respect, is withstanding long captivity and torture by the North Vietnamese. “I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me, and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war,” said Clark. The reservations he expressed were clear and honest, requiring no apology and no scuttling repudiation by Barack Obama.
Supporters of McCain insist that his military service should be exempt from discussion, except when they feel like bringing it up to prove some point about national security, terrorism or the presidency that it really doesn’t prove at all. But of course he was not the only soldier, sailor or airman to survive such experiences with courage and nobility. There was once another former POW whose candidacy for high office vindicates the Clark argument.
Or has everyone forgotten Adm. Stockdale?
The late James Bond Stockdale epitomized the bravery and idealism of the Americans imprisoned and tormented, both physically and mentally, by their captors in Hanoi. Captured and beaten after his Navy jet was shot down, he lived in leg irons for two years and in solitary confinement for four years between September 1965 and February 1973, when he was finally released. His many honors and citations included the Medal of Honor, and he rose to vice admiral. He was a man of indisputable intelligence who taught philosophy at Stanford University and wrote several books before he died of Alzheimer’s disease three years ago.
Yet the sad truth is that Stockdale lived out his final years in the shadow of his disappointing independent candidacy for vice president as industrialist Ross Perot’s running mate in 1992. He knew little about policy or politics, as roughly 70 million Americans discovered with a wince as they watched a televised debate that pitted him against Al Gore and Dan Quayle.
“Who am I? Why am I here?” were his opening lines, a bid to acknowledge his inexperience that left audiences laughing at him. Although he sounded refreshingly unscripted by comparison with his opponents, Stockdale’s evident confusion and unreadiness left him looking like a “bewildered grandfather,” as Maureen Dowd put it. Everybody liked Stockdale, but nobody thought he should be running for vice president, and the notion that he might sit a heartbeat from the Oval Office raised serious questions about Perot’s judgment.
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