Red Cross investigators concluded last year that the CIA’s interrogation methods for high-level al-Qaida prisoners were “categorically” torture, according to a new book, “The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned Into a War on American Ideals.” The book by Jane Mayer, who writes about counterterrorism for the New Yorker, provides details about torture techniques used on detainees and says that the Red Cross warned the Bush administration that “the abuse constituted war crimes, placing the highest officials in the U.S. government in jeopardy of being prosecuted.”
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47 Comments
Pelosi has emphatically stated that impeachment is “off the table”. She must have numerous skeleton’s that Bushco knows that she knows that they know…You don’t get into those seats of “power” without something to hide and hang over you.
Oh, and don’t waste your time reading the book, it’s just “Liberal Propaganda”.
Pelosi is correct in not pushing for impeachment. It would be much more satisfying to imprison Bush after he leaves office for Paraguay.
Yeah horrifying.
I suppose what Al Qaeda does is just what terrorists do eh Red Cross. Let’s see, holding families hostage for blackmail or safe houses. Executing people if they don’t cooperate, beheading, chopping off hands, kidnap, rape and all sorts of neat tricks of terrorism.
Of course, the Red Cross wants to focus the attention on Bush because some CIA agents poured some water down some terrorist nose.
Big Frogging Deal. Get a life.
I would challenge anyone with a brain to look at this book objectively. Keep in mind that the International Red Cross and the America Red Cross are two separate entities.
Ask yourself why waterboarding where those ‘tortured’ are still alive is more important than say a Daniel Pearl or the many other Americans captured and beheaded for no other reason than being American.
Then read this book and ask yourself why Phillip would recommend this book to be read.
Since I haven’t read this book, I’m keeping my mouth shut , and my mind open regarding it. Try it, it’s not that hard and you might accidentally learn something!
gster I have that is why I challenged others to do the same. It would seem we are in agreement here.
Ask yourself why waterboarding where those ‘tortured’ are still alive is more important than say a Daniel Pearl or the many other Americans captured and beheaded for no other reason than being American.
What ridiculous justification for torture. “Hey, they do it, so we can, too!” I thought the U.S. was better than this. I thought we Americans had scruples. Apparently not.
Probably why bush is so insistent on outsourcing cia interrogations.
Okob, you, Regular, get your head handed to your 50 times a day on weblog, is that also torture, or do you, in fact, enjoy it?
““the abuse constituted war crimes, placing the highest officials in the U.S. government in jeopardy of being prosecuted.”
Quite right so they should. I say turn bush and his whole cabal over to the world court.
Predestined I in no way absolved anyone from blame I merely said that the International Red Cross didn’t look at the heinous beheading of Daniel Pearl or that other unfortunate young man who went over there to help the terrorists and was beheaded on public television for his trouble. Nor did the International Red Cross intervene or blame anyone for the kidnapping and murder of the Burnams in the Phillipines. I could go on for a long time but I think you get the picture. Since they think this was the Americans with dirt on their face we should investigate and punish.
I merely pointed out that the IRC has an agenda. Don’t let yourself be taken in by the hype.
Read what you want but don’t change the intent of my words.
BJ you have absolutely no ability to look at both sides of any picture. Your desire to ‘punish’ bush overrides any good sense you might have had in the past. I have read with a great deal of concern your posts lately. You need to seek help.
I would agree that the IRC has an agenda, as does the author of the mentioned book, etc… She is trying to sell books.
This is the same stuff that has been covered by congressional investigations etc…
Ultimately just another opinion on the difficult subject as to what is tough interrogation, what constitutes torture, and where is that line?
But in a crisis when the lives of your countrymen may depend upon the result, accepted “rules’ of war can go by the wayside.
If these people are willing to “martyr” themselves in order to get the Islamic Revolution they want, what is torturing them going to accomplish, other than a little revenge? It will only get answers that the interrogator’s want to hear. Not what is neccesarily the “truth”. My concern lies with knowing if they are really “Al Kayda’s” or just Habib, the opium farmer.
Pleef,
Shoot me an email brother. SolDevVB@Hotmail.com
“Innocent until proven guilty” Liberals say, if it is a terrorist or a gang banger charged with a crime.
“HANG HIM” the liberals say, if a political organization like the International Red Cross states a non-binding, politically motivated opinion against the Bush Administration.
I do not believe that the tactics used are “torture” under the law.
I also do not believe that the Geneva Conventions has much, if ANY jurisdiction over “illegal enemy combatants” — that treaty spends a great deal of time and effort spelling out who is and who is not covered by the treaty.
Why bother, if EVERYONE is covered by said treaty?
Treaties are between nations.
Liberals who tell us we can not be in a “war on terror” because “terror is not a country” — do not seem to see the contradiction in claiming that we must “honor” a treaty that no terrorist organization ever signed!
Check your email, Sol.
U.S. antiterror funds sought for “comfort” pods: Post Fri Jul 18, 1:53 AM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Top U.S. Air Force officials sought to spend millions of dollars in counterterrorism funds on “comfort capsules” for military planes used by senior officers and civilian leaders, The Washington Post reported on Friday.
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Over the past three years, the service asked to divert $16.2 million in counterterrorism funds to the project, but was twice rebuffed by Congress, the Post reported, citing internal e-mails and budget documents.
The newspaper cited an August 2007 letter to the Pentagon from Rep. John Murtha, a Pennsylvania Democrat, ordering that the money be spent on a “higher priority” need.
The Air Force nonetheless decided last year to take $331,000 from counterterrorism funds to cover a cost overrun in the program that began after the September 11 attacks, the Post said, citing officials it did not identify. A senior officer told the Post in reply to questions that the Air Force would reverse that decision.
Air Force officials said the government needed the new capsules to ensure leaders could talk, work and rest comfortably in the air, the report said.
An Air Force spokesman was not immediately available
The guy that prosecuted Manson thinks Bush should be brought up on murder charges
“Ms. Mayer acknowledges that Red Cross investigators based their account largely on interviews with the prisoners. But she writes that several C.I.A. officers she spoke with confirmed parts of the Red Cross description.”
Hmmmm….
I am sure that of course the liberals believe everything the terrorists say.
“I am sure that of course the liberals believe everything the terrorists say.”
Idiotic at best.
Damn.
This really is a larger than liberal vs. conservative issue. To try to simplify it to that point is pretty absurd, if you ask me.
outlander is correct when he says:
“But in a crisis when the lives of your countrymen may depend upon the result, accepted “rules’ of war can go by the wayside.”
The above has always been true. War does not bring out the best in mankind. What is different now is that what we (the U.S. of A.) have defined as torture (waterboarding), and prosecuted Japanese who did this to us, is now accepted practice/policy by the U.S.
Extraordinary rendition is wrong – when we ship folks to other countries where we know they will be tortured. I recognize, too, that Clinton started this – it still is not right.
John Sidney McCain, III was correct at the time he was against torture (before he was for it), when he said:
“Being against torture is about us, not about them” (that is a paraphrase).
If I were Condi Rice, Dick Cheney, or Donald Rumsfeld, I would not ever plan on leaving the borders of the U.S. I am not sure that any wrongdoing can be directly tied to Bush. As Mayer’s book points out on many issues, he was an absentee president and Cheney/Addington took over.
PreD nailed OkO’s logical fallacy squarely between its eyes–just because terrorists torture and murder in no way gives us the justification to do the same. Otherwise, two wrongs make a right.
As for Franklin’s “innocent until proven guilty” canard, who and when has the authority to try the Bush administration. They already openly flout Congressional subpeonas. They give the finger to the World Court.
Very convenient to say “innoncent until proven guilty” when the President and his gang of thugs know damn well they’ll never have to testify under oath about anything . . .
BTW, this book says nothing that we on the left haven’t been saying for the last six years.
Everything we said turned out to be true, and everything the CONs said turned out to be false.
And it took this long for the inherently conservative media to get around to covering it . . .
“Hitler would have been a war hero if he had won WW2.”
No wonder the Bush administration is pushing so hard to win this war against Iraq.
If they don’t win, the rest of the world will think that they are a bunch of criminals.
Pall.
“Innocent until proven guilty” Liberals say, if it is a terrorist or a gang banger charged with a crime.
“HANG HIM” the liberals say, if a political organization like the International Red Cross states a non-binding, politically motivated opinion against the Bush Administration.”
Now you know that’s not what I’ve ever proposed. I’ve said turn Bushco over to the World Court and let them deal with him. He’ll get as fair a trial as anywhere in the world, and besides. they don’t hang anyone.
Cap you are reading exerpts from a book that is little more that fantasy with no proven facts. You give it all the creedance you want but don’t pretend with others that it is fact. That just makes you look very gullible.
Another proven fact you misquote often is about the ‘conservative’ media. Look up what Lou Dobbs said yesterday about the EU campaign of Obama’s where he is taking along the top networks correspondents. That way you can make sure any story is your version.
You need to be busted bact to private. You ain’t no Capn.
It’s amazing the rationalizations some people will use to defend the indefensible.
I agree with what’s already been said: Send Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld to the World Court, and let that body determine their fate.
Cap you are reading exerpts from a book that is little more that fantasy with no proven facts.
Germie–which country have been in the past 7 years? It’s not like any of this is new. Mayer’s book is simply a puncuation mark, confirming what is–unfortunately–very old news.
The guy that prosecuted Manson thinks Bush should be brought up on murder charges
Would that be Vincent Bugliosi, who wrote Helter Skelter? I heard he was no Bush fan.
oko, your intent on this blog has always been abundantly clear. No muddy waters with you.
“I heard he was no Bush fan.”
It is getting difficult these days to find a Bush fan anywhere. I heard that even Barney has bolted.
WS,
Of course Barney bolted- they were using his song for torture. Of course after having the “Barney Song” blasted at me for a week straight, I’d probably sell out my mother, my firstborn and my recipe for red beans to get them to turn it off!
I don’t say, “Hang ‘em.” I am open to a trial, however. Already, administration officials are considering never leaving the country, as they may be subject to detention if war crimes charges are filed somewhere….
Injured MP sues Pentagon over Guantanamo beating
Spec. Sean D. Baker, 38, was assaulted in January 2003 after he volunteered to wear an orange jumpsuit and portray an uncooperative detainee. Baker said the MPs, told he was an unruly detainee who had assaulted an American sergeant, inflicted a beating that resulted in a traumatic brain injury.
Baker, a Persian Gulf war veteran who re-enlisted after the Sept. 11 attacks, was medically retired in 2004. He said the assault left him with seizures, blackouts, headaches, insomnia and other problems.
cw33.trb.com/bal-te.gitmo19jun19,0,6317333.story
Jed — Just for you >>>
I hate you; You hate me;
I shot Barney happily;
When the shots rang out,
Barney hit the floor!
No more purple dinosaur!!
:-|
Regardless of wether anybody in this administration is ever brought before a world court, (it will NEVER happen) America has been found wanting in the court of World Opinion and I do not know if the US will ever regain it’s lost status, or pride. Jeez, if this was a 1940’s movie Rumsfeld, Cheney and company would be the ones wearing the jackboots while pledging absolute obedience to the leader. I used to boo those guys as a kid, still do.
France, Germany and Russia violated the United Nations resolutions and violated the UN “Oil for Food” prgram repeatedly.
Who cares what those countries think? They were partly responsible for the sanctions, against Saddam, failing to work very well.
When anyone in America talks about “world opinion” of America, that person is full of himself.
You are speaking to YOUR opinion of “world opinion” —
Nobody speaks for “world opinion” in any way shape or form.
Furthermore, the vast majority of the world’s population live under Communism, Sharia law, dictatorship or some other form of horrible existance.
Any prisoner, in the vast majority of the world’s prisons, would trade their cell for a cell at GITMO any day!
Franklin
Posted July 18, 2008 at 6:22 pm | Permalink
Any prisoner, in the vast majority of the world’s prisons, would trade their cell for a cell at GITMO any day!
—
:lol:
Well it bears repeating (ad infinitum), there just ain’t a standard low enough for these Augustus Stupidus supporters whose collective level of cognitive dissonance apparently approaches that of some pretty famous American cultiststs, e.g., followers of Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Credonia Mwerinde, Marshall Applewhite, David Koresh… George W Bush’s “presidential” library… :D
I guess anybody who thinks any Axis prisoner convicted of war crimes based on waterboarding, ca 1946 – 1949 was wrongfully convicted…right? :wink: :lol:
Larned? A “tennis resort” prison.
Leavenworth? A “difficult” prison.
GITMO? Priceless.
Jesus, and they wonder why McCain can’t gain traction…
:lol:
“When anyone in America talks about “world opinion” of America, that person is full of himself.”
Given that you are speaking of “world opinion” Rosseel, that would make you “full of yourself.”
Or full of something.
By the way, Paul the Con, aren’t we supposed to be the good guys, you know, BETTER than the rest?
With your arguments, we are no better than the worst of the worst.
Watching the hearing where former A.G Ashcraft testified a statement was made that is ridicules.
“Inflicting pain or and suffering is torture unless done to gain information”.
OK than robbery is the use of force or the implying of the use of force. Unless it is done for financial gain!
These are law makers people splitting those hair, OUR law makers and the law only works and is enforceable if the people can respect the laws. I am not making up the definition of torture it was said.
Let us not forget this is not a war on buildings or the American people. It is a war of ideology and when we forsake our ideology then all the military strength means nothing. The terrorists are winning…..
#
Rage
Posted July 18, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink
It’s amazing the rationalizations some people will use to defend the indefensible.
I agree with what’s already been said: Send Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld to the World Court, and let that body determine their fate.
===============================================
I can’t agree on the world court thing. I have zero faith in them: they are a political body and nothing more. Justice only serves them when it advances their causes, otherwise Dufar would never have happened.
No Bush is our President and our problem to solve.
We should be the one charging him and trying him for his crimes.
The author is on CSPAN right now, it is something that has always amazed me. Much of what she is saying is things I learned in 2004 and it has never been hidden. Yet it remained either overlooked or totally ignored by the masses. We assume that others will listen and pay attention, we remain fat, stupid and happy. The level of arrogance of the Administration is beyond compare, its like they feel by simple calling something a different name changes it from being illegal to legal. It like being caught having sex with a 12 girl and claiming it alright because I say she is really 35 years old.
JM,
“I can’t agree on the world court thing. I have zero faith in them: they are a political body and nothing more.”
All courts are to some extent political bodies; do you have zero faith in any court? The World Court is probably at least as ruled by law as any other in the world. Bush/Cheney/Rummy committed crimes not just in this country, but in the world in their attempt at imperialism. It should be the world that tried and judges them.
my husband would find it cool. ATB
Pedant
Jim Jones was one of YOURS.
Jones was a Marxist, and a friend of Rosalyn Carter.
Any President that would hand over any former President, to the world court, would be impeached, and rightly so.
It won’t happen.