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370 Comments
First post!
Of course, most of you are used to seeing the first post to be an anti-science copy/paste from old man price.
First post!
Of course, most of you are used to seeing the first post to be an anti-science copy/paste from old man price.
…………normally, I’d say “oops”, but at least the second post won’t be anti-science garbage!
NYT yearns for that good old, long-lost consensus
At last they admit that there is no consensus — but they lament that fact as a bad thing — because it tends to “confuse” people. Dr Goebbels would agree. Intellectual diversity and debate are OUT! Excerpt:
When science is testing new ideas, the result is often a two-papers-forward-one-paper-back intellectual tussle among competing research teams. When the work touches on issues that worry the public, affect the economy or polarize politics, the news media and advocates of all stripes dive in. Under nonstop scrutiny, conflicting findings can make news coverage veer from one extreme to another, resulting in a kind of journalistic whiplash for the public.
This has been true for decades in health coverage. But lately the phenomenon has been glaringly apparent on the global warming beat. Discordant findings have come in quick succession. How fast is Greenland shedding ice? Did human-caused warming wipe out frogs in the American tropics? Has warming strengthened hurricanes? Have the oceans stopped warming? These questions endure even as the basic theory of a rising human influence on climate has steadily solidified: accumulating greenhouse gases will warm the world, erode ice sheets, raise seas and have big impacts on biology and human affairs.
Scientists see persistent disputes as the normal stuttering journey toward improved understanding of how the world works. But many fear that the herky-jerky trajectory is distracting the public from the undisputed basics and blocking change. “One of the things that troubles me most is that the rapid-fire publication of unsettled results in highly visible venues creates the impression that the scientific community has no idea what’s going on,” said W. Tad Pfeffer, an expert on Greenland’s ice sheets at the University of Colorado. “Each new paper negates or repudiates something emphatically asserted in a previous paper,” Dr. Pfeffer said. “The public is obviously picking up on this not as an evolution of objective scientific understanding but as a proliferation of contradictory opinions.”
Several experts on the media and risk said that one result could be public disengagement with the climate issue just as experts are saying ever more forcefully that sustained attention and action are needed to limit the worst risks. Recent polls in the United States and Britain show that the public remains substantially divided and confused over what is happening and what to do. Some environmentalists have blamed energy-dependent industries and the news media for stalemates on climate policy, arguing that they perpetuate a false sense of uncertainty about the basic problem.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/science/earth/29clim.html
Sorry I was late, Apophis!
When it’s raining it takes a little longer for my various livestock chores.
The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting new results. Much like this open climate debate blog.
………….sorry taking care of your goats took so long old man, but global climate change is real.
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem price.
Good morning, Pleefer!
The NYT article I linked to id evidence that the side of reason and logic is beginning to win.
The results are encouraging!
Of course global climate change is real, Apophis! I never said it wasn’t!
It’s cooling down even as we BLOG!
(ain’t my problem, man)
heheh
………..YOU and your denial brethren ARE part of the problem old man. Our entire world must start making changes and sacrifices. Your archaic religious views close your mind to real science. Until you get over your literal interpretation of an ancient “history” book, you will remain in the dark ages.
Ignorance is pathetic.
Calm down, my desperate educator friend. I don’t bring my faith to the debate, you do.
You’re constant attacks on my faith do me no harm and will bring you no peace.
You’re=Your
……………I am pleny calm old man. Everytime you deny real science you are doing so because of your faulty idea of what science really is. Your view that the earth is only 6000-8000 years old comes from your literal interpretation of a translation of a translation of a translation……..
This gives you NO credibilty to contribute or discuss matters of real science, i.e. Global Climate Change.
Hank..I heard back from Capt Joe Dessenberger and Captain Speer. According to these bureau commanders, traffic cops ARE called to emergencies in progress. They also handle routine requests for service when needed. I don’t know where you got your information, but it is not accurate.
LOL!
I probably know a lot more about science than you ever will.
Ironically, I’m also a better teacher than you will ever be!
I was a student and an instructor for a great man that was arguably one of the best educators of the last century.
I have impeccable credentials and you are little more than light entertainment in the mornings.
The very fact that you are reduced to attacking my faith daily is proof that your argument is devoid of any merit. It is a testimony to the failure of your life.
You make ‘my side’ look good!
……what you call your “faith” is what I know as your ignorance old man.
Prattle on ignorant old man.
Hey Rapter,
That is probably the party line.
“They also handle routine requests for service when needed. ”
I wonder what the ‘policy’ is for determining ‘when needed’.
They do not routinely answer 911 calls. A large percentage of the officers on duty at any one time do not.
This is not a criticism, just a fact. There are four divisions, each division has two officers that are assigned traffic control. They are not routinely dispatched on 911 calls and very seldom do.
After our exchange the other day I checked with a couple of my police officer friends, one a detective and one a swat team member. They prefer to remain anonymous but that is where I got my information.
Prattle?
LOL!
We could use your usual morning posts as an example for prattle!
When have you ever started the day withanything positive or informative?
nitwit
……………do you call the nonsense you post “positive or informative”?
You are the nitwit old man.
You make ‘my side’ look good
Mr.Price are you claiming that you represent a majority of people on your side?
Since you say there is no problem with human caused global warming then there is no need to switch to an alternate form of energy.
What are your qualifications other than being a good ole boy with access to the Google do you have? I mean really Mr.Price or should we just have faith in you because you said so?
……………do you call the nonsense you post “positive or informative”?
Yep.
Such a scientist you are HLP. The other day you posted a portion of a scientific paper about ancient tree lines in Siberia. Basically, the paper from which the excerpt was lifted concluded that temperatures must have been warmer from about 9,000 to 3,000 (approximately) years ago in Siberia because the tree line advanced northward.
My, question, Mr. Scientist is this: The paper also concluded that the tree line was able to proceed northward because the shoreline itself was located much further north than today. How do you account for that?
WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
…….old man price posted an article stating the Earth was warmer 9,000 to 3,000 years ago?
Doesn’t that kind of contradict the “story” you subscribe to that the Earth is only 6,000-8,000 years old?
Which is it old man?
FYI……………..your copy/paste posts are neither “positive or informative”.
You can lead a CON to facts, but you can’t make him think.
It appears the middle school science teacher is too afraid to post anything about science.
FOR RELEASE July 29, 2008
Richard Viguerie:
Bush White House Hides True Scope of Federal Deficit
(Manassas, Virginia) The following is a statement by Richard A. Viguerie, Chairman of ConservativeHQ.com, regarding the White House projection of a $482 Billion deficit for Fiscal Year 2009:
“The White House has issued figures indicating that President Bush and his enablers in Congress will leave his successor with a budget deficit of $482 Billion for Fiscal Year 2009, which is a record. How’s that for a legacy?
“As shocking as this deficit figure is, that’s still not the true scope of our budget woes because it excludes $80 Billion in war costs and $227 Billion borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund.
“The real budget deficit is therefore $789 Billion.
“Under accounting trickery that would probably land the top officers of a publicly traded company in jail, the money borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund–and spent on anything and everything except Social Security payments–is not counted towards the budget deficit, although it is part of our $9.49 Trillion National Debt.
“It’s way past time for Washington politicians to have their own Sarbanes-Oxley.
“But this is how corrupt Washington has become. Besides the dangerous practice of massive deficit spending, which will saddle our children and grandchildren with trillions of dollars of debt, the Bush White House and Congress are conspiring to conceal the true nature and scope of the problem.
“This year’s budget deficit will actually be $307 Billion worse than the politicians are saying. This fraud on the American people is a conspiracy of silence by both major political parties.
“In stunning hypocrisy, the White House blamed the record budget deficit on the slowing economy and the $150 Billion stimulus package passed earlier this year.
“No, Mr. President, the buck stops with you. Stand up and accept the responsibility–and your legacy–for massively expanding government.”
That’s nothing compared to the 845 billion dollars Obama wants to send to the U.N. in his Foreign aid/ millineum act bill.
I remember before the daily cut ‘n paste posts began that Hank told us he had found a place with a year’s worth (memory might be wrong on numbers) of opinion pieces opposing the accepted science of global climate change. He further told us he would be posting one a day (for whatever the period was). I made up my mind at that point those would be scroll overs. I don’t think he even cares what they say just as long as they keep the subject stirred up, without much effort.
Seems he has done just that — kept the subject stirred up. And, guess what? If all who participate would just ignore you wouldn’t be playing into his hand.
Has anyone changed someones opinion yet? If that happens can you announce it in a spectacular way so I can take note that something new was brought to the discussion?
Al Gore said it. I believe it. That settles it.
Here’s my entry for the daily cut and paste contest a little snip from 2003 when the fundies were at the height of their power and glory.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0613-02.htm
Published on Friday, June 13, 2003 by
The New Right Wing Agenda
by Steven E. Miller
The amazing thing is that the right wing fundamentalists have been able to seize power and win a large amount of support – or at least acquiescence — among the US electorate. The people I talk with point to a number of contextual reasons. First, this country lacks any significant institutionalized alternative. The Democratic Party is both complicit and fratricidal. The labor movement is the only really powerful potential organized opposition, but they are ideologically scattered, organizationally weak, and under unremitting attack. In addition, the powerful role of money in shaping our electoral outcomes is another key ingredient in the right wings success, as well as in keeping liberal (much less radical) alternatives from gaining influence in the Democratic Party. The increasing dominance of US media by an incredibly small number of incredibly right wing corporations has a powerful impact. The collapse of the Soviet Union, the lack of any significant “third way,” and the resulting feeling that there is “no viable alternative” has been a very important context for the right wings’ ability to present themselves as inevitable and unstoppable. Finally, the current climate of insecurity, fear, and even paranoia – which the government and media are successfully doing their utmost to deepen and expand – plays an important role in making it hard for opposition to find political space.
Using all these institutional-cultural supports, the reactionary clique has built a broad and powerful coalition. They’ve become a “big tent” for anti-abortionists (pulling in the Catholic right wing), anti-feminists (attracting not only status-concerned men but women who feel threatened by the loss of the “security and respect” given to traditional female roles), homophobes, anti-immigrant and anti-affirmative action groups (drawing on the racist undercurrents that always rise during periods of uncertainty, unrest, and change), gun advocates (pulling in huge numbers of rural and western voters), property-rights advocates (dipping into the traditional distrust of government bureaucracy), business advocates (offering a path forward to businesses increasingly pressed by foreign competition during an economic downturn), and more. And they’ve found ways to give everyone of these constituent groups immediate monetary, policy, and cultural-symbolic payoffs – further tightening their bonds to the government clique.
Most important, by wrapping themselves in the mantle of religion, the GOP leadership has made themselves a vehicle for the growing religious fundamentalist upsurge – parts of which can accurately be described as a fascist movement. Having god on your side means you are always right, no matter what other people may think or how events may fall out. You simply never have to say you are sorry, and all your failures are the result of evil forces beyond your control. Being on a Crusade, having an absolutist and deeply ideological sense of mission, also underpins the right wing’s willingness to use all the power at their command – legal and extra-legal – to push for a maximal agenda. No matter how thin their electoral margin of victory, once in office, they act without hesitation or compromise. They understand that success creates its own legitimacy and its own tailwind, pulling others along with it.
The scariest part is that the right wing lunatics feel that they’ll get away with it. Who remembers Afghanistan, or the absence of Iraqi’s supposed weapons of mass destruction? Who seems to care that our economy is collapsing? In the short term, Bush and company win not because of smarter strategies or brilliant tactics, but because they have access to overwhelming resources and power and they can simply outlast everyone and everything else. In fact, they are so incompetent and so blind to the complexities of the real world that they will make huge mistakes. So it is possible (but not inevitable) that the world situation will spin out of control and the small clique now running the country will have to pass the baton to others in 2004 or 2008. But we should not underestimate their willingness to keep imposing their will through direct (or indirect) force — the racism, lies, manipulation, and violence used to secure the 2000 election are likely to be repeated or exceeded in coming years.
Don’t worry about it Ms. Inks. I’ve read some of Hank’s posts and scrolled over others. Sometimes I use them to expose the “lie of the day.” Sometimes I use them to learn. Generally, HLP’s are lifted in their entirety from some blog or other, and consist of disjointed excerpts from several sources, most of which reach exactly the opposite conclusion Hank has made. He’s just another nasty old curmudgeon, probably striking five-year-olds with his cane as we speak.
Nathan writes on yesterday’s “open thread” that “I have never said that all liberals are cowards.”
Thank you for going on record with that admission, Nathan.
You might want to see if you can get Hank to go along with you on that:
Nothing gets a liberal’s panties in a wad faster than a good ol’ American company making a profit.
This implies that all liberals wear “panties,” i.e., we’re effeminate, sissies, gay etc.
Hank Price
Posted September 29, 2006 at 2:35 pm | Permalink
What I mind is liberal politicians openly undermining our Comander-in-Chief and our military’s efforts to win this war for no other reason than to keep their sorry butts in office one more election cycle.
*****
In other words, liberals are traitors.
Traitors should be shot.
And one of your guys did exactly that in Knoxville.
Congratulations.
Boycott Verizon!
If americans will not stand up for each other who will? Not corporate america or politicians!
Verizon is screwing approximately 68,000 employees! Change your phone service!
This is about saving USA jobs! Americans must speak out with action! Boycott!
Why should americans Care?
http://www.newnetworks.com/UnderbellyVerizonStrike.htm
In other words, liberals are traitors.
Traitors should be shot.
And one of your guys did exactly that in Knoxville.
Congratulations.
————————-
It appears that a mentally deranged man shot the people at the church.
Didn’t know that nut jobs had to have a party affiliation.
Examples of hate-speech that leads to right-wing terrorism:
“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
- Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95
“If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual gay sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. All of those things are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family and that’s sort of where we are in today’s world, unfortunately. It all comes from, I would argue, the right to privacy that doesn’t exist, in my opinion, in the United States Constitution.”
- Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), Associated Press, 04-22-03
“I would warn Orlando that you’re right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don’t think I’d be waving those flags in God’s face if I were you. This is not a message of hate; this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It’ll bring about terrorist bombs; it’ll bring earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor.”
- Pat Robertson, speaking of organizers putting rainbow flags up around Orlando to support sexual diversity, Washington Post, 06-10-98. For the record, Orlando remains undestroyed by meteors.
“Environmentalists are a socialist group of individuals that are the tool of the Democrat Party. I’m proud to say that they are my enemy. They are not Americans, never have been Americans, never will be Americans.”
- Rep. Don Young (R-AK), Alaska Public Radio, 08-19-96
“I don’t understand how poor people think.”
- George W. Bush, confiding in the Rev. Jim Wallis, New York Times, 08-26-03
“Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him.”
- Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), talking about President Clinton, as reported by journalist Steve Miner of KSUB radio who overheard his conversation, 11-01-98
“We’re going to keep building the party until we’re hunting Democrats with dogs.”
- Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), Mother Jones, 08-95
“My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.”
- Ann Coulter, New York Observer, 08-26-02
“Homosexuals want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers.”
- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 01-18-95
“Chelsea is a Clinton. She bears the taint; and though not prosecutable in law, in custom and nature the taint cannot be ignored. All the great despotisms of the past – I’m not arguing for despotism as a principle, but they sure knew how to deal with potential trouble – recognized that the families of objectionable citizens were a continuing threat. In Stalin’s penal code it was a crime to be the wife or child of an ‘enemy of the people.’ The Nazis used the same principle, which they called Sippenhaft, ‘clan liability.’ In Imperial China, enemies of the state were punished ‘to the ninth degree’: that is, everyone in the offender’s own generation would be killed and everyone related via four generations up, to the great-great-grandparents, and four generations down, to the great-great-grandchildren, would also be killed.”
- John Derbyshire, National Review, 02-15-01
“Probably nothing.”
- Jeb Bush, during his losing 1994 bid for Florida Governor, when asked what he would do for black people, quoted by Salon on 10-05-02
“The homosexual blitzkrieg has been better planned and executed than Hitler’s.”
- Rep. William Dannemeyer (R-CA), The New Republic, 08-01-94
“When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolph Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together.”
- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 01-21-93
“We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.”
- Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02
“I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.”
- Grover Norquist, President of Americans for Tax Reform, NPR Morning Edition, 05-25-01
“Quit looking at the symbols. Get out and get a job. Quit shooting each other. Quit having illegitimate babies.”
- State Rep. John Graham Altman (R-SC), addressing African-American concerns about the ’symbol’ of the Confederate Flag, New York Times, 01-24-97
“Two things made this country great: White men & Christianity. The degree these two have diminished is in direct proportion to the corruption and fall of the nation. Every problem that has arisen (sic) can be directly traced back to our departure from God’s Law and the disenfranchisement of White men.”
- State Rep. Don Davis (R-NC), emailed to every member of the North Carolina House and Senate, reported by the Fayetteville Observer, 08-22-01
“NOW is saying that in order to be a woman, you’ve got to be a lesbian.”
- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 12-03-97
Regular writes, that “It appears that a mentally deranged man shot the people at the church.”
Correct.
And what deranged him seems to be listening to the hate of the right wing. He chose that church specifically because it was liberal.
What do Osama and Obama have in common?
They both have friends that attack the Pentagon via terrorism via explosive mechanisms.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 9:21 am | Permalink
Regular writes, that “It appears that a mentally deranged man shot the people at the church.”
Correct.
And what deranged him seems to be listening to the hate of the right wing. He chose that church specifically because it was liberal.
————————
What if the man was a fan of Marvel Comics
Then what?
““But this is how corrupt Washington has become. Besides the dangerous practice of massive deficit spending, which will saddle our children and grandchildren with trillions of dollars of debt, the Bush White House and Congress are conspiring to conceal the true nature and scope of the problem.”
Aint it the truth.
But hey, who’s counting? We’re STILL safe from gay marriage…
I see capn is now a psychiatrist…:
“And what deranged him seems to be listening to the hate of the right wing”
According to capn, listening to the radio drove him nuts. Never once considering the possibility the guy was nuts beforehand..nope..DOCTOR capn has diagnosed this. case closed…anyone who listens to that kind of radio is obviously going to go shoot people.
somehow I missed the ‘logic’ here…
Raptor?? Are you trying to argue with the statement made by Knoxville Police??
Sorry the pro-science post (to contradict Hank’s anti-science posts) is late today but it’s my day off so I don’t get up at 5am.
Evolution Of Skull And Mandible Shape In Cats
ScienceDaily (July 29, 2008) — In a new study published in the online-open access journal PLoS ONE, Per Christiansen at the Zoological Museum in Copenhagen, Denmark, reports the finding that the evolution of skull and mandible shape in sabercats and modern cats were governed by different selective forces, and the two groups evolved very different adaptations to killing.
The cat family comprises some of the most specialised carnivores in the history of mammals, all exclusively eating flesh. The cat family consists of two major sub-groups: the feline cats (including all modern species) and the sabertoothed cats (which are all extinct). Skeletons from the two groups look broadly similar, but their skulls are often remarkably different, and suggest that members of the two groups underwent radically different adaptations to predation during the course of evolution.
More at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080729234258.htm
Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition – Origins
Wikipedia
“The real Chaplain, Howell Forgy, aboard the USS New Orleans (Pearl Harbor); during the Japanese attack, was that chaplain]. He was a Lieutenant (j.g.) on that Sunday morning in December, 1941.
Another Lieutenant who had been in charge of an ammunition line on the USS New Orleans during the attack remembered.
“I heard a voice behind me saying, Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. I turned and saw Chaplain Forgy walking toward me along the line of men. He was patting the men on the back and making that remark to cheer them and keep them going. I know it helped me a lot, too”, he said.
Another lieutenant j.g. said, the men aboard the USS New Orleans would thereafter kid Chaplain Forgy about the role he played whenever they heard the song that had been written. They also encouraged him to set the record straight as to who actually said what. According to that same lieutenant the chaplain would decline, saying he felt “the episode should remain a legend rather than be associated with any particular person.” Author McDowell said that press reporters were eventually permitted to interview men of the USS New Orleans involved in the “ammunition” story. Chaplain Forgy’s superior officers set up a meeting with some of the press and; at last, the real story of the song and the man who had inspired it was finally confirmed.
In 1942, a recording by The Merry Macs reached number 8 on the Billboard chart. The 1943 version by Kay Kyser and His Orchestra reached number 1.
Loesser donated his royalties for sale of the song to the Navy Relief Society.”
Sure, police are not pyschiatrists. How would the PD know what drove the guy nuts? To claim that listening to the radio made him do it might just happen to suggest that the guy was out of balance before hand.
Talk radio gave him his target. As I have written many times, many Americans are mean and miserable, and Rush et ilk tell them why: It’s the liebruls. When it’s really them, or themselves, at the root of their discontent.
Yeah, I mean I slap women and sell drugs, shoot up houses, because Dr. Dre and 50 cent told me to!
Sarcasm, in case you didn’t know(Chas).
After Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., called Thursday for a withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq, White House press secretary Scott McClellan accused him of endorsing “Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic Party” and called his stance a “surrender to the terrorists.”
Dick Cheney told Senator Leahy to “go f*ck yourself” on the floor of The Senate.
Ann Coulter said someone should “put rat poison in Justice Stevens’s crème brûlée.”
The CONs ran ads against Tom Daschle and Max Clelland (both decorated vets) with photos linking them to Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
“Liberals have a preternatural gift for striking a position on the side of treason…Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy.” Ann Coulter
“It was a crushing defeat for the liberals, not because liberals were necessarily Communists, though many were, but because they had been morally blind to Communism…Liberal elites defended traitors. In response to the Soviet threat, the Democrats consistently counseled defeat, supplication, and retreat.” Ann Coulter
But perhaps the most important difference between conservatives and liberals can be found in the area of national security. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.
Conservatives saw what happened to us on 9/11 and said: we will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what happened to us and said: we must understand our enemies. Conservatives see the United States as a great nation engaged in a noble cause; liberals see the United States and they see … Nazi concentration camps, Soviet gulags, and the killing fields of Cambodia.
Karl Rove
Participants at the Republic Party Convention wore Purple Heart band-aids to mock Senator John Kerry’s three purple hearts earned in combat.
Peter Jennings covering the Convention turned to Newt Gingrich: “Did you squirm a little when you saw the guy wearing the purple heart [band-aid]?” Gingrich: “No. I think it’s funny.”
Jerry Falwell blamed 9-11 on the ACLU, “Godlessness,” and gays. Pat Robertson agreed.
Jerry Falwell, founder of the right-wing PAC Moral Majority, produced a video claiming that the Clintons’ ran a cocaine ring and murdered Vince Foster.
Former Majority Leader and CON John Boehner repeatedly claimed Dems are more concerned with protecting terrorists than Americans.
Rumsfeld claimed that people who are against the war are the moral equivalent of Neville Chamberlain who advocated appeasement to Hitler.
You can’t have terrorism without hate speech.
As the conflict in Iraq is winding down and Iraq strives to fulfill its Democratic status in a chaotic Muslim world, it appears that the Commander-in-Chief, President George Bush was right.
The surge worked, Iraqis are returning to Iraq, there are talks of time tables for troop withdrawal.
Once again the GOP works to stick it to veterans, this time by opposing funding for research for spinal cord injuries:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Senate_Republicans_block_effort_to_aid_0730.html
The Republicans love soldiers like they do fetuses, but once they are out, they don’t give a damn.
Comic books and psychiatry have nothing to do with it.
The shooter hated liberals. If you don’t believe it, look at the USA Today story below “Suspect Hated Liberals.”
So he went to a place where liberals were to kill them.
Who taught him to hate liberals?
The right-wing.
End of story.
******
Shooting suspect hated liberals
By Emily Bazar, USA TODAY
The man accused of shooting and killing two people in a Knoxville church Sunday wrote that he hated liberals, police said Monday.
Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen said investigators discovered a four-page letter in suspect Jim David Adkisson’s vehicle outside the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, where the shooting occurred.
In the letter, Adkisson, 58, of Powell, Tenn., “repeatedly included disgust for what he perceived to be the liberals in our country,” Owen said.
Adkisson, charged with one count of first-degree murder, is scheduled to appear at a preliminary court hearing next Tuesday.
Police and witnesses said Adkisson pulled a 12-gauge shotgun out of a guitar case and opened fire while children performed Annie Jr. Sunday morning. He fired three times before members of the congregation tackled him. Seven adults were injured. Two had been released from the hospital, and the others remained in serious or critical condition Monday, Owen said.
“The intention was to shoot as many people as he could with the expectation he would be killed by the police,” Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam said.
Capn,
Case in point – BlueJay. Wants republicans dead. Is proud that his son hates.
Liberals? So should we brand all liberals this way? Was it talk radio that sent Junior over the edge?
The only thing you have proven Crapn, is that the nut job Adkisson wanted “suicide by cop.”
The story clearly shows a deranged mind.
So, you are claiming that he was perfectly sane until some talk radio show convinced him he needed to kill liberals?
I had no idea those talk radio shows were that persuasive and convincing.
ANTI
Posted July 30, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink
Yeah, I mean I slap women and sell drugs, shoot up houses, because Dr. Dre and 50 cent told me to!
Sarcasm, in case you didn’t know(Chas).
========================================
What church do you want to shoot up, ANTI?? Guess that USA Today article pretty much puts the whammy on your sick brand of what you think is “funny” /sarcasm
Yes, what our military helped to do was a great achievment. I don’t think anyone can doubt that. I don’t think it is as simple as “the surge worked” either. But what did the U.S. gain?
What church do you want to shoot up, ANTI?? Guess that USA Today article pretty much puts the whammy on your sick brand of what you think is “funny” /sarcasm
—-
Chas, Chas…Put your helmet back on before you hurt yourself.
And what have we gained from Iraq? What is the supposed “Dividend” that we are going to get from Iraq? Aside from the typical NEOCON drivel that they will be a partner in the war on terror. How will they be a partner in the war on terror? Is their army going to fight in Afghanistan?
Perhaps you should consider these questions before you go trying to tell people that the Conservatives were right all along and Liberals were wrong all along.
Once again, you sound like the typical NEOCON. You must be told that you were right and your opponents were wrong. It’s starting to sound very immature.
I wonder if Chas has one of those helmets with the mouthpiece attached?
Notice how the “party of personal responsibility” runs from any responsibility of inculcating hate crimes.
CONs are people who demand to know if you have any proof that a bear sh*ts in the woods.
And when you show them a pile of bear sh*t in a woods, they say, “did you actually see a bear sh*t this?”
LLVET Posted July 30, 2008 at 9:58 am
Once again, you sound like the typical NEOCON. You must be told that you were right and your opponents were wrong. It’s starting to sound very immature.
—————————————-
This folks is a lesson in “sour grapes 101.”
Regular
Posted July 30, 2008 at 9:59 am | Permalink
I wonder if Chas has one of those helmets with the mouthpiece attached?
—
He does. I gave him one for his birthday, he was so excited…he peed a little.
Please note: ANTI does not deny a desire to shoot up a Church… Just slings more ad hominems in my direction… Typical Right Wing numb nut
#
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 9:59 am | Permalink
Notice how the “party of personal responsibility” runs from any responsibility of inculcating hate crimes.
CONs are people who demand to know if you have any proof that a bear sh*ts in the woods.
And when you show them a pile of bear sh*t in a woods, they say, “did you actually see a bear sh*t this?”
——————————
Do tell Crapn?
I wasn’t aware that you are an expert on scatology.
The list grows from the Crapn:
Bear
Bull
Horse
Very little of what CapnAmerica calls hate speech is hate speech. And it is all pretty tame compared to a lot of the stuff liberals such as CapnAmerica write even on this blog and especially in their hateful leftists web sites.
I find it laughable that the main practitioner of divisive, finger pointing politics here is blaming the right and acting holier than thou. Sorry Capn, you’ve been sowing hate here for years. Now you get to reap the fruits of lost credibility.
“If the Left succeeds in gaining and retaining more power, the well-being of future generations will be at greater peril. I fear (our children) will inherit a nation that is less free and less secure than the nation we inherited from the last generation. It is therefore our job to stop them. Not just debate them, but defeat them.” — Sean Hannity
Dear Sean:
I found these words on page 11 of your book Let Freedom Ring. This book, and similar ones from your conservative colleagues Bill O’Reilly and Michael Savage, was found in the home of a man who read those words, internalized those words, and then loaded his shotgun.
From an Open Letter to Hannity
http://www.religiondispatches.org/Gui/Content.aspx?Page=AR&Id=382#
“If the Left succeeds in gaining and retaining more power, the well-being of future generations will be at greater peril. I fear (our children) will inherit a nation that is less free and less secure than the nation we inherited from the last generation. It is therefore our job to stop them. Not just debate them, but defeat them.” — Sean Hannity
Dear Sean:
I found these words on page 11 of your book Let Freedom Ring. This book, and similar ones from your conservative colleagues Bill O’Reilly and Michael Savage, was found in the home of a man who read those words, internalized those words, and then loaded his shotgun.
From an Open Letter to Hannity
http://www.religiondispatches.org/Gui/Content.aspx?Page=AR&Id=382#
And of course, we all know that Regular believes that the people in that liberal church got what they deserved… :roll:
So how about Junior’s hate capn? Notice you gloss over that.
Actually it is a lesson in the size of a neocons ego.
Or will you prove me wrong? Here is how: Tell me something that the conservatives were wrong about and the liberals were right about. Any one important decision where the Democrats were correct and the Republicans were wrong.
I will wait.
It’s not to late to support the Libertarians folks.
More from the open letter:
“I don’t know if you remember me, Sean, but I worked with you in Atlanta in the early 1990s, right as you got your big break with FOX News. I was an anchor and reporter (under the air name Candace Petersen) at WGST, your last low level stop before hitting the big time. I remember your last night on the air before you left for the big leagues. I approached you in your office, a cramped back room that I’m sure resembles a hovel compared to your FOX digs. I asked if you, during your last show, would tone down your rhetoric against gays and lesbians—stop demonizing our community for just one night. You refused. You explained to me, as if I were a child, that to do so would be to let your audience down. They expected you to go on the air and rant about how liberals, minorities, women and especially gays and lesbians were ruining our country. You simply had to oblige.”
“Even though you explained it simply, I still didn’t understand. Your Girl Friday—your most trusted assistant on your show was a young lesbian. She admired you, for some strange reason, and you two were close friends, lunching together, spending time together outside of work. You didn’t seem to have a problem with this particular lesbian. She wasn’t the one you kept blaming on the air for the downfall of democracy. No, you had two different lives then—one on the air, where you performed your outraged conservative act and one in real life, where you enjoyed your lesbian friend and seemed like a decent, sane fellow.”
Thanks, David.
Excellent post.
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:06 am | Permalink
And of course, we all know that Regular believes that the people in that liberal church got what they deserved…
—————————-
On the contrary Chas, I prayed for the souls of those lost and deeply scarred by the incident.
What did we gain from Iraq?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRA3QdvY9rQ&feature=related
If a serial killer has many copies of Stephen King books and cites them in a journal, what should we do to King Capn’A?
Those loving caring liberals…
Keith Olbermann Suggests Physical Violence Against Hillary Clinton
http://senatorobamaisanopportunist.blogspot.com/2008/07/keith-olbermann-suggests-physical.html
Sure you did Regular… (cough, cough)
Ah, the “you do it too” defense . . . trotted out right on cue.
When a guy marches into Terry Fox’s church and opens fire because he “hates conservatives,” then I’ll admit I share some culpability.
That doesn’t happen, does it?
“Freemen” stand offs, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Tim McVey’s terrorist attack, the Alan Berg killing, the shots fired at liberal talk show hosts, the beating of Randi Rhoades, the Matthew Sheppard killing, the dragging death of a black man by whites in Texas . . .
Violence only seems to go in one direction lately, from CONs against liberals.
Are you going to answer my question Capn’A, or do you have an agenda?
Correct, Sol.
And when Olberman stepped over the line, he was rightly attacked by . . . LIBERALS of the Huffington Post.
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:12 am | Permalink
Sure you did Regular… (cough, cough
======================
I pray before each meal and at night.
I also participate in listening and acknowledging what our Minister has to say during the invocation and other prayers during the service.
Have you prayed about it Chas?
Or is the untested Hypothesis a little hard to get in touch with? :)
Still waiting Regular: Is Iraq going to fight in Afghanistan? Is Iraq going to find Osama bin Laden? Is Iraq going to stabilize Israel and the middle east? Is Iraq going to stabilize Turkey’s status as a member of NATO?
Answer those questions and I will gladly tell you that you were right, pat you on the head, and make you feel very smart.
Sol, that is the biggest faux pax you have made in a LONG time… NOTHING is said there about physical violence against Hillary… It is verbal rhetoric…
Not the same thing, Anti. Stephen King doesn’t say that people deserve killing in his books.
The CONs do say that–liberals = traitors, terrorist lovers, appeasers, defeatocrats, responsible for all the nation’s ills.
They provide a rationale for hate crimes.
Question of the day:
Will John McCain find the Iraq/Pakistani border before November?? :roll:
It’s called freedom of speach Capn’A. The shooter was a GROWN MAN. HE has the responsibility to control himself. It is obvious that he had mental issues, this isn’t the fault of talk radio.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:17 am | Permalink
Still waiting Regular: Is Iraq going to fight in Afghanistan? Is Iraq going to find Osama bin Laden? Is Iraq going to stabilize Israel and the middle east? Is Iraq going to stabilize Turkey’s status as a member of NATO?
Answer those questions and I will gladly tell you that you were right, pat you on the head, and make you feel very smart.
———————
Beats me LLVET.
The Iraqi people are in charge of their own Democracy. They may not see any benefit in fighting in Afghanistan or at least it may cause hard feelings amongst their neighbors.
Iran, wouldn’t be pleased as Afghanistan and Iraq sandwich their country geographically.
With that said, the Iraqi government and people have the say whether to fight in Afghanistan.
I have my doubts they will though, they have too many challenges at home.
CapnHypocrite has no credibility. He, the constant hater of all things conservative, calls the right on alleged “hate speech”. He is also blind. He forgot to post the the horrific crime of the Carr brothers? Liberals.
Are there nasty things that happen in this world? Sure. but to try to tag it to an ideology that more than half this country believes in is just stupid. But consider the source.
Regular: Why don’t you just stay with your usual Bush Defenses: 1. Everyone else was fooled and 2. Monday morning quarterback.
Those work for you. Stick with them.
Chas,
What does it feel like being so dumb and called on it damn near every day?
http://186kpersecond.com/blog/2008/04/25/keith-olbermann-suggests-physical-violence-against-hillary-clinton/
Was it fair to mention the Carr brothers crime and call them liberals. Of course not.
Yet that is just what CapnHypocrite does with the crimes he mentions. Of course the shoe is on the other foot there so that’s OK.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:22 am | Permalink
Regular: Why don’t you just stay with your usual Bush Defenses: 1. Everyone else was fooled and 2. Monday morning quarterback.
Those work for you. Stick with them.
————————
Sorry you didn’t like my answers, but they are my answers.
And, there was no Monday morning quarterbacking. I supported the Iraqi invasion from the beginning and stuck with it.
I had doubts about some of the Commanders on the ground and their screw ups and of course Mr. Ego, Donald Rumsfeld, which they wisely got rid of.
Appears to me LLVET, you got an answer to a question you posed and didn’t want to hear it.
Too bad.
narrow mind -narrow future.
“He forgot to post the the horrific crime of the Carr brothers? Liberals.”
The Carr Bros. were liberals?
Damn, I thought they were CRIMINALS.
My bad.
The Carr Bros are liberals?
Really?
Because they were black?
So’s Thomas Sowell and Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas.
*****
The Carr Bros weren’t anything. They actually planned to attack another apartment but their victim wasn’t home. It was not a race-based crime or ideological.
They were simple criminal opportunists. Although I’m not in favor of the death penalty in general–it’s too easily misused–in this case, I was for it.
The Carr Bros. did the crimes, they were clearly guilty, and they earned the death penalty without question.
This is nothing at all like a real political crime like the Rosenbergs’ or Sacco and Vanzetti.
It appears to me Regular, you’re answer was “BEATS ME” I heard it lound and clear.
Too Bad
Damn, I thought they were CRIMINALS.
Nailed it. Along with the other kooks that do stupid stuff. But leave it to capn to blanket everyone to the right of him as the same.
BTK is a staunch Republican.
But I don’t make the case that he was a terrorist. He did not seem to be motivated by his Republicanism.
Adkisson claims he was motivated by the hate speech of the right, and the evidence found at his house seems to back this up.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:30 am | Permalink
It appears to me Regular, you’re answer was “BEATS ME” I heard it lound and clear.
Too Bad
——————-
Yeah, “Beats Me” was on predicting the future of the choices of the Iraqi people.
Why all the arm flailing LLVET?
You’re just a peeled nerve today. :)
Mr. Clark,
Check your GMail please.
Regular: I’m just trying to figure out what “VICTORY” we have won from invading Iraq? Can’t you answer that question? I gave you some options to choose from: If you don’t like those choices then tell me. What did we win by invading Iraq?
#
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:32 am | Permalink
BTK is a staunch Republican.
But I don’t make the case that he was a terrorist. He did not seem to be motivated by his Republicanism.
Adkisson claims he was motivated by the hate speech of the right, and the evidence found at his house seems to back this up.
——————————
I met BTK once when I drove a convertible sponsored by my friend Walleed (Wally’s Auto Sales) in the Kechi Parade that held the Mayor of Junction City.
I said “Hi, glad to meet you.” and extended my hand. He never smiled, turned and walked away.
Creepy person for sure.
So, capn is gleefully dancing on the graves of some innocent victims, using their deaths to ‘prove’ that anyone who is not a liberal is a violence prone rightwinger?
That is pretty sick, even for capn.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:38 am | Permalink
Regular: I’m just trying to figure out what “VICTORY” we have won from invading Iraq? Can’t you answer that question? I gave you some options to choose from: If you don’t like those choices then tell me. What did we win by invading Iraq?
——————————
Victory comes in many forms.
- The Democratization of Iraq (a goal of the Clinton Administration set forth in Public Law)
- The lifting of an oppression dictatorship from the Iraqi people.
- Unparalleled access to the Iraqi government and a firm future in diplomatic and future trading with the government and private businesses of Iraq.
- The trust, although somewhat tentative of the Iraqi people. Arab peoples are quite difficult to gain their complete trust, it’s their upbringing.
- The removal of a regional threat (Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath Party) from Iraq.
- More stability in the region. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait I’m sure are quite relieved that Saddam’s armies are not breathing down their neck.
- The realization that a stable country practicing Democratic ideas is much easier to deal with than a country led by a dictator.
And so on and so forth…
Not at all, Raptor, but nice try by using the logical fallacy of distortion.
What I’m saying is that hate speech has consequences. You can see it with Al Qaeda and the KKK and other supremecy groups. Even CONs admit that.
Now it’s time for you people to own up to the fact that you are partly responsible by your demonizing rhetoric against liberals for what happened at the Universalist Church.
According to Regular, we won in Iraq.
So . . . now we get to bring the troops home, right?
#
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink
According to Regular, we won in Iraq.
So . . . now we get to bring the troops home, right?
———————–
Victory where one stabilizes a country is a rare thing.
It may not be fully realized for years, much like Japan and Germany after WWII.
I would say the emphasis on bringing the troops home gets stronger with each day.
In fact, the surge troops should be coming home by this fall from reports that I have read.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:48 am | Permalink
Not at all, Raptor, but nice try by using the logical fallacy of distortion.
What I’m saying is that hate speech has consequences. You can see it with Al Qaeda and the KKK and other supremecy groups. Even CONs admit that.
Now it’s time for you people to own up to the fact that you are partly responsible by your demonizing rhetoric against liberals for what happened at the Universalist Church.
—————————–
“You People.”
I don’t listen to Limbaugh or Hannity. I think Savage is a screaming lunatic.
Typical of your generic broad brush assigning guilt to an entire group of supposed homogenized thinking people.
As you know, Republicans are as varied in ideology as the Democrats are.
There are extreme right, conservatives, neo-conservatives, moderates, anti-war republicans, eco-republicans, log cabin republicans and etc.
“You People” just demonstrates another one of your Liberal “redneck” tendencies Crapn.
Thanks, Regular, for supporting Obama’s position on troop withdrawl.
Hank, you should read more carefully. The “consensus” on AGW is getting stronger.
Hank posted July 30, 2008 at 6:29 am
“NYT yearns for that good old, long-lost consensus
At last they admit that there is no consensus — but they lament that fact as a bad thing — because it tends to “confuse” people. Dr Goebbels would agree. Intellectual diversity and debate are OUT! Excerpt:
These questions endure even as the basic theory of a rising human influence on climate has steadily solidified: accumulating greenhouse gases will warm the world, erode ice sheets, raise seas and have big impacts on biology and human affairs
…
Several experts on the media and risk said that one result could be public disengagement with the climate issue just as experts are saying ever more forcefully that sustained attention and action are needed to limit the worst risks..”
Again, it’s called freedom of speech Capn’A. The shooter was a GROWN MAN. HE has the responsibility to control himself. It is obvious that he had mental issues, this isn’t the fault of talk radio. You are trying to demonize talk radio to further your agenda instead of using rational thought.
Regular:
1. They are not even close to Jeffersonian Democracy.
2. These same “victories” were proclaimed when the Shah of Iran was put in place. How is Iran doing?
3. Saudi and Kuwait do not equal the region. The region is not stablized. It might become that way once we leave,
4. We used that “regional threat” against Iran and sold weapons to that “regional threat” Do you honestly think that the Iraqi’s are going to trust the country that sold weapons to Hussein?
5. They are a sovereign country, we will lose all of the “unparalleled access” when we leave.
It’s no big victory Regular. You’re president just avoided catastrophe. And it only cost him Trillions of dollars.
Again, why not stick with your usual defense. It’s plausable.
#
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:59 am | Permalink
Thanks, Regular, for supporting Obama’s position on troop withdrawl.
————————
Yes, success in Iraq has everyone thinking bringing the troops home, nothing wrong with that.
However, Obama was very much for bringing the troops home before the job was done, he even voted against funding the troops.
FLIP
FLOP
Capn’A, you should be good and limber by now with all that stretching. You should go for a jog.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:02 am | Permalink
Regular:
1. They are not even close to Jeffersonian Democracy.
2. These same “victories” were proclaimed when the Shah of Iran was put in place. How is Iran doing?
3. Saudi and Kuwait do not equal the region. The region is not stablized. It might become that way once we leave,
4. We used that “regional threat” against Iran and sold weapons to that “regional threat” Do you honestly think that the Iraqi’s are going to trust the country that sold weapons to Hussein?
5. They are a sovereign country, we will lose all of the “unparalleled access” when we leave.
It’s no big victory Regular. You’re president just avoided catastrophe. And it only cost him Trillions of dollars.
Again, why not stick with your usual defense. It’s plausable.
———————————
Of course it’s not Jeffersonian Democracy.
Of course, now that you’ve built up your strawman argument, I will be glad to watch as the future events will knock it down like a stack of paper dominoes.
Entirely too much arm flailing from you LLVET and you are holding a fist full of “sour grapes” in each fist.
Hank posted July 30, 2008 at 6:29 am
“Some environmentalists have blamed energy-dependent industries and the news media for stalemates on climate policy, arguing that they perpetuate a false sense of uncertainty about the basic problem.”
————–
A few examples (see link for funding and names of skeptics)
‘Responding to Global Warming Skeptics — Prominent Skeptics Organizations’
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/skeptic-organizations.html
“Global Climate Coalition
George Marshall Institute
Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine
Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)
Greening Earth Society
Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide & Global Change
UPDATE:
The Union of Concerned Scientists report, Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air: How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco’s Tactics to “Manufacture Uncertainty” on Climate Change, details how ExxonMobil has adopted the tobacco industry’s disinformation tactics, as well as some of the same organizations and personnel, to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue.
According to the report, ExxonMobil has funneled nearly $16 million between 1998 and 2005 to a network of 43 advocacy organizations that seek to confuse the public on global warming science. See the report for a list of these organizations.”
“Now it’s time for you people to own up to the fact that you are partly responsible by your demonizing rhetoric against liberals for what happened at the Universalist Church.”
No more so than if one of you libs read WSCLARK post that he wanted “all cons to die (that night)”,
went off and killed a con.
Entirely too much arm flailing from you LLVET and you are holding a fist full of “sour grapes” in each fist.
Let me join the arm flailing, there are about 5 million orphans in Iraq. Guess what people are caring for these orphans….if you guessed the anti-American militias your right. When these children reach adulthood do you think they will have warm fuzzy feelings toward America? Hate us?
” ExxonMobil has funneled nearly $16 million between 1998 and 2005 to a network of 43 advocacy organizations that seek to confuse the public on global warming science”
Is there a law broken here? Is there surprise.
No different than tobacco companies.
It’s a business. You need to buy more XOM stock if you want to survive.
As part of the Housing Act:
The democrats in congress sent a bill to Bush which increased the national debt $800,000,000,000.00 overnight.
It’s just Bush spending beyond our means.
The issue is today and tomorrow. All our children get to do is pay DOWN the debt incurred by their parents.
Has anything changed with our federal government? They are ALL still spending money we do not have.
Why don’t you just admit that you BELIEVE that George Bush was right. And admit that said faith is not based on such obvious “facts” as you have so often incinuated.
Now if these “Future Events” knock down my doubts. I will be glad. And I will gladly tell you that you were right. Validate you, vindicate you, pat you on the head etc.
The notion that one take a nonhomogeneous Muslim society and end up with any from of a democracy is lunacy. You can’t buy it , or build it- the pieces are simply not there!
“The presence of somebody’s books in a mentally disturbed person’s home does not make them accessories to a killing. But right-wing rhetoric toward liberals and humanists like those who attended the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church has been exceptionally violent for years.”
As for Hannity, he said that “there are things in life worth fighting and dying for and one of ‘em is making sure Nancy Pelosidoesn’t become the speaker (of the House).” Think about it: “worth fighting and dying for.”
Ann Coulter says liberals should be beaten with baseball bats and tried for treason (she’s not clear about the order in which these events are to take place.) Dick Morris says they’re “traitors” who should be decapitated.
“I had a friend at Clear Channel (yes, I have a broad group of friends) who described some of these people as “entertainers.” Don’t you get it, guys? You use inflammatory images that equates your fellow Americans with violent enemies of the nation. Then you act surprised when a mentally ill person believes you and kills. You use the language of war and then say you’re not to blame when somebody enlists in your imaginary struggle.”
Excerpted from R.J. Eskow at
http://www.reclaimthemedia.org/media_literacy_bias/a_murderers_bookshelf_hannity_%3D6100
Sorry for the huge cut and paste.. but it is too good to pass up. -db
“Victory in Iraq” has become Neo-CON pornography.
They can’t define it, but claim they’ll recognize it when they see it.
The “Surge” wasn’t implemented “to subdue violence.” Although, if you ignore the hundred thousand or so Iraqi civilians who’ve died since the “Surge,” the “Surge” has been “successful” on that front. The “Surge” was supposed to provide an environment for democracy to take its course.
And even, in that respect, the “Surge” has worked. The nascent post-Saddam Iraqi government has chosen to make diplomatic overtures toward Iran (aka “the Iraq-Pakistan border,” by John Sidney McCain the Third – for Shrub’s 3rd term) and specifically endorsed a 16-month timetable for removal of American occupation troops from their borders.
If the “Surge” has worked, to what end?
What exactly are American taxpayers getting for their Ten-Billion-Dollars-a-Month investment in Iraq?
In pure capitalist terms, what has George WMD Bush won with his commitment of a half-trillion dollars and 4500 American lives? Where’s the pay-off?
You’ve had more than five years of Shrub’s little Iraqi Adventure. What’s it won? How is your life better? How will you know we can achieve John Sidney McCain the Third’s (for Shrub’s 3rd term) dream of leaving Iraq in “victory?”
George WMD Bush’s Iraq War (”Mission Accomplished!”) and the five-year occupation is the biggest foreign policy fiasco in American history.
“The ‘Surge’ is working!” is the most pathetic attempt at political rationalization since “Mussolini made the trains run on time.”
Sol, check your inbox……………..
American_Way posted July 30, 2008 at 11:17 am
” ” ExxonMobil has funneled nearly $16 million between 1998 and 2005 to a network of 43 advocacy organizations that seek to confuse the public on global warming science”
Is there a law broken here? Is there surprise.”
———-
There is a public that’s confused about AGW science.
#
annie_moose
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:15 am | Permalink
Entirely too much arm flailing from you LLVET and you are holding a fist full of “sour grapes” in each fist.
Let me join the arm flailing, there are about 5 million orphans in Iraq. Guess what people are caring for these orphans….if you guessed the anti-American militias your right. When these children reach adulthood do you think they will have warm fuzzy feelings toward America? Hate us?
——————————–
Interesting statistics, yet no source.
Of course, after armed conflict there will be victims and those left homeless and orphaned.
Do join the parade of ’sour grapers’ though, Annie Moose.
#
gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink
The notion that one take a nonhomogeneous Muslim society and end up with any from of a democracy is lunacy. You can’t buy it , or build it- the pieces are simply not there!
——————————-
You mean like Turkey?
Regular:
After the validation and pat on the head, I will give you a bill for 3 Trillion dollars. Not even close to what was spent, but I will take that amount. Then we can call it even.
I notice you enjoy accusing me of “arm flailing” I suppose you think that makes you look more rational in your argument. Would you mind defining your metaphorical “arm flailing” so that I will know to police myself next time?
here is 5 million sour grapes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lz8Tnmdaw0
http://www.aliveinbaghdad.org/2008/05/05/among-iraqs-children-orphans-suffer-most/
The number of Iraqi orphans increased in the last few years due to the war. According to official Iraqi government statistics released in December 2007, the number of Iraqi orphans had reached at least five million over the last three years. Many due to the Sunni-Shia conflict. There are several social organizations caring for a small number of these Iraqi orphans, such as Child Aid International. There are approximately 26 orphanages that Alive in Baghdad has been able to locate around Iraq. Eight orphanages are in Baghdad and another 18 are distributed all over Iraq and generally they accept kids between the age of 6 and 18 years old.
you people???? Oh brother…talk about totally weak generalizations. Everyone who doesn’t follow in capn’s extremism is now an accessory to murder?
YOU PEOPLE? give it up, capn…you have dug yourself a hole, might as well quit digging.
Well. American Democracy was well-served today by the House Judiciary Committee’s vote (20-14) to hold Karl Rove in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify regarding the Justice Department’s prosecution of Gov. Don Siegelman (D-AL).
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/in_contempt_vote_on_karl_rove.php
The people of the United States, acting through their representatives, have declared that Karl Rove needs to be make his depositions under oath, before Congress, rather than from his protected media perch.
An auspicious day for American Democracy. Hopefullly not the last one.
Oh, and I see that outlander is just making stuff again up to obscure the weakness of his case.
http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=44568&s2=04
Independent and government reports have confirmed an increase in the number of orphaned and sexually abused children, as well as a rise in the number dropping out of school. And as the security situation has worsened of late, nongovernmental organizations warn against the impact of deteriorating security conditions on Iraqi children.
Government statistics indicate that up to five million children live in difficult social conditions. Some 760,000 children were not able to resume primary school in 2008 and up to 25,000 children are leaving their homes – either to elsewhere in Iraq or abroad – each month. Humanitarian organizations report that the number of Iraqi orphans has increased to half a million and according to Save the Children, one in eight Iraqi children, now live on the street.
#
annie_moose
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:42 am | Permalink
here is 5 million sour grapes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lz8Tnmdaw0
————————–
A rather typical Liberal driven victim diversion for the success in Iraq, however I’ll address it. Always love the bad news don’t ya libs?
I wasn’t questioning the numbers of orphans in Iraq, I was questioning the supposed fact you stated that “Guess what people are caring for these orphans….if you guessed the anti-American militias your right.”
Back up your claim.
Muslim and Christian charities should pounce on this to care for the children, along with huge help from the United Nations and in general some countries sponsorship programs.
From Joshua Holland–
Consider the narratives we hear so frequently, from right-wing talk radio, to the right-blogs to Fox News. Liberals are traitors. Liberals hate the troops, stab them in the back, hate America. They are “anti-family”, they hate God. They want America to be destroyed by its enemies, whether Soviet shock troops or “Islamofascist” terrorists.
I’m not denying for a second that progressives and liberals are filled with animus towards the right, but it is an animus of a different nature. Most progressives believe that conservative leaders are greedy, self-interested and represent only the interests of the very wealthy, and their followers are simply chumps dazzled by social issues into voting against their own interests. We don’t consider them to be bent on the destruction of our country . . .
The difference manifests itself, not infrequently, in incidents like what went down in Tennessee. It’s certainly not isolated — just last week, a group of teens beat a Latino migrant to death. And why not? People like Michelle Malkin don’t make arguments about the costs and benefits of immigration; they paint a picture of an invading army bent on our destruction. They say that illegal immigration is part of a plot to “reconquer” parts of America — literally to annex the Southwest. Abortion clinics are bombed, and providers are assassinated, and the bombers and assassins inevitably see the procedure as “killing babies” — who wouldn’t act to stop actual babies from being killed?
When people view themselves as facing an existential threat to their nation, to their very way of life, they defend themselves — it’s a natural reaction. It appears that Jim David Adkisson, unemployed, no doubt mentally disturbed, believed he was taking action to defend his country, his community. He did it because of “his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country’s hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.” A picture-perfect summary of the back-lash conservative message. It was a predictable consequence of the constant cries of DolchStoß from the backlash right.
Of course, when one points this out one is immediately derided as an enemy of free speech, even if one never even suggests that this kind of speech should be regulated in any way. The hate-peddlers use “free speech” as a shield from criticism, as if it means the freedom to not have one’s speech examined or condemned.
I’m not advocating censorship here, but at the same time, I think it’s important to note that inciting people to violence is not a protected form of speech. In Rwanda, the genocide of 800,000 people was spurred on by extremists on the radio — Rwanda’s Shock-Jocks — who said that it was every loyal Hutu’s duty to wipe out the “cockroaches” who were destroying the country, and that speech was condemned as a crime against humanity.
More at link
Chas –
response to your 7/29 this a.m. comment on the 7/29 thread.
Excuse me, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere where Adkisson’s ex-wife was associated with the church he shot up.
Yes. It was here:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/07/a_whole_lotta_ugly_in_church_s.html
If you have an ex-wife, you might know that they can “make” one do all sorts of bad things, too.
The CONs have no trouble believing that simply opposing the Iraq war “aids and abets our enemies, it results in more American deaths.”
But they absolutely reject the idea that constantly calling liberals “anti-American enemies” would motivate a man to kill liberals.
This is consistent with the primitive way CONs think–CON ideas are true. Any ideas conflicting with CON ideas are false. So to violently repress those conflicting ideas is to support truth.
It’s the same mindset held by medieval theologians like Luther who having been persecuted for heresy, immediately persecuted others for heresy when they seized power.
When your side represents “truth, goodness and justice,” you need not apologize for how you maintain the supremecy of that side.
This is exactly the mindset of the 9-11 terrorists, by the way. Their side were “right” in their mind, so anything they did was also right.
CapnAmerica,
You made the claim several times that I have called all liberals cowards. You even tried to “prove” it with some crappy quotes of mine.
When are you going to admit you were wrong?
Now you take some quotes of my father and invent that liberals are traitors and they should be shot.
You are nothing but a liar. You are purposefully taking things posters have said and drawing conclusions from them that were never said nor implied.
You are desperately trying to link this shooting to being caused by Conservatives “hate speech.”
Yet nothing you have posted so far shows that any Conservative was calling for some man to go shoot people in a church.
Nothing Rush or Hannity or any other Conservative talk show host has said was a call for violence.
You are taking one horrible action and simply because the guy said he didn’t like liberals and trying to use it to tarnish Conservatives.
What you are doing is pathetic.
Regular
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:35 am | Permalink
#
gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink
The notion that one take a nonhomogeneous Muslim society and end up with any from of a democracy is lunacy. You can’t buy it , or build it- the pieces are simply not there!
——————————-
You mean like Turkey?
________________________________
And how many Muslim countries are there in the world? And how many are Democracies and would you want to live in any of them?
If so, ciao.
Another content-free post by Nathan of the “prove that bears crap in the woods” type.
Upon seeing bear crap in the woods, Nathan is sure to argue that it was trucked in by liberals . . .
Ok Nathaniel: What is your view on Liberals? Do you consider them a necessary evil in our political landscape?
I can say that I wish NEO-Cons were gone. Because I would replace them with another political idealogy, namely Libertarians. Mostly because I realize that one sole political party is far more dangerous than any misguided approach by either party.
Have the Liberals ever been right, while conservatives were wrong on anything important?
Like it or not, one must either accept the Liberals as a necessary part of our political landscape, replace them or accept a one party form of government.
But, if I am guilty of the false dilema, please tell me another alternative.
CapnAmerica,
When you can’t argue with me just evade what I say by coming up with some wierd analogy.
So, when will you admit you were wrong?
LLTVET,
==============================
What is your view on Liberals?
==============================
I could probably write a book on the subject, but to keep it short, I disagree with them on nearly everything when it comes to how to best govern our country and the different political issues.
============================================
Do you consider them a necessary evil in our political landscape?
============================================
No.
=================================================
I can say that I wish NEO-Cons were gone. Because I would replace them with another political idealogy, namely Libertarians. Mostly because I realize that one sole political party is far more dangerous than any misguided approach by either party.
=================================================
What do you mean you wish they were gone?
You better watch out, becuase that is enough for CapnAmerica to accuse you of hate speech and inciting violence. Some liberal might even be reading this right now and go kill someone because of what you just said. *EYE ROLL*
===============================================
Have the Liberals ever been right, while conservatives were wrong on anything important?
===============================================
What do you think is “important?”
=============================================
Like it or not, one must either accept the Liberals as a necessary part of our political landscape, replace them or accept a one party form of government.
=============================================
We are always working on replacing them. It is called an election.
Nathaniel: It’s very hard to read your response without thinking that you would prefer only 1 political party or 1 single political ideaology.
Is that true Nathaniel? Do you prefer having only 1 political party/ideaology in this country?
LLTVET,
I would prefer that real Conservatives run the Government and be in control, yes.
Just like many of you would prefer that more liberals be in control and run the government.
Your point?
My point was above Nathaniel. As much as I dislike certain ideas. I can’t just do away with them, without replacing them. Otherwise we will have only one political party or political ideaology running the country.
I hate to say it, but then facism would follow. This is Poli Sci 101.
And in answer to your question: Important, in that our country is better off now because we followed the democrats rather than the republicans. Is there any such incident in our country’s history.
Nathan asks when I will admit I’m wrong?
I already did upthread.
CapnAmerica
Posted July 30, 2008 at 9:12 am | Permalink
Nathan writes on yesterday’s “open thread” that “I have never said that all liberals are cowards.”
Thank you for going on record with that admission, Nathan.
*****
BTW, I was also wrong when I broke my pledge not to argue with someone who actually believes the Earth could be less than 10 thousand years old.
My bad.
Sub-committee has voted to hold Rove in contempt. The S.C. won’t rule until bush is out, on exec. priv., so Rove won’t have the Libby get out of jail free card to play.
CapnAmerica,
That was not admitting you were wrong at all. I have said from the start that I didn’t think all liberals were cowards and you still tried to prove otherwise by some quotes of mine.
No where did you ever simply say you were wrong. You still have not.
You have actually broken your own pledge twice.
You made an agreement with me to not bring up religion like that and here you are still doing it again.
I accept you at your word that you claim that you never said “all liberals are cowards.”
I was wrong to assume otherwise.
And you were wrong when you said that the parishioners did not take quick, courageous action, as you have already said.
Now, will you admit that believing the earth is 10 thousand years old has nothing to do with religion, and you’re wrong to believe it does?
CapnAmerica,
There you go again. Breaking our agreement.
I might point out that since we have made that agreement, I am almost positive that I have never broken yet.
You have done so many times.
More on Hank’s false claim at 6:29 am, and the NYTimes column.
‘Journalistic whiplash’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/07/journalistic-whiplash/
Sorry, Nathan.
You’re not allowed to take your foolish superstition about the age of the earth and justify it in the name of “religion.”
Otherwise, I’ll just claim that in my religion I can steal your car . . .
CapnAmerica,
How is what I believe any more foolish than what you believe?
Watch the temps fall. See how we have not been warmer than the peak of 1998.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/7/prweb1158684.htm
WASHINGTON (Map, News) – It’s been unusually chilly in Anchorage this summer. In fact, temperatures in the Alaskan city have reached 70 degrees only twice this year, compared with 49 times in 2004. A National Weather Service meteorologist predicted that 2008 will likely go down “as the summer with the least number of 65-degree days” on record.
http://veerright.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/global-cooling/
LOL!
There’s no scientific consensus on AGW, cosmos.
Get over yourself!
Your buddy in the search for global enlightenment,
Hank
“First they noted the increasingly glaring discrepancy between the figures given by GISS, which show temperatures continuing to race upwards, and those given by the other three main data sources, which all show temperatures having fallen since 1998, dropping dramatically in the past year to levels around the average of the past 30 years. ”
…
“It was McIntyre who last year forced Hansen to publish revised figures for US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest years of the 20th century were not in the 1990s, as Hansen had claimed, but in the 1930s. He has now shown that Hansen had been adjusting almost all his pre-1970 global temperature figures downwards, by as much as 0.5 degrees, and his post-1970 figures upwards. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/07/27/do2708.xml
Is it just me, or do some of you other good BLOGers see the irony in one of the nastiest, most hateful people that post here (that would be you Capt.) trying to hang the little hate speech bag of crap on conservatives?
Just wondering,
Yeah,
Where is Linda and the others to point out how “annoying” CapnAmerica is being by constantly bringing up the age of the Earth to me in the discussion?
Where are the calls to ignore CapnAmerica?
Where are the calls for CapnAmerica to stop being a “bully?”
#
gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
Regular
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:35 am | Permalink
#
gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink
The notion that one take a nonhomogeneous Muslim society and end up with any from of a democracy is lunacy. You can’t buy it , or build it- the pieces are simply not there!
——————————-
You mean like Turkey?
________________________________
And how many Muslim countries are there in the world? And how many are Democracies and would you want to live in any of them?
If so, ciao.
—————————————-
You inferred that there were no Democracies that were majority Muslim. I just proved you wrong.
I lived in Turkey for awhile, it’s not that bad. Too hot and too Muslim for my tastes, but the Turks like it just fine.
Guess you were incorrect huh?
Why doesn’t Kansas get a tax holiday like Missouri?
CAPN. Stop being a bully. I ignore you.
Now Nathaniel: Care to answer my question? In your opinion, is there ever a time in our history, where our country was better off because they listened to the democrats rather than to the republicans?
If you think the answer is no, then just say so and take responsibility for your answer.
#
LLTVET
Posted July 30, 2008 at 1:39 pm | Permalink
CAPN. Stop being a bully. I ignore you.
Now Nathaniel: Care to answer my question? In your opinion, is there ever a time in our history, where our country was better off because they listened to the democrats rather than to the republicans?
If you think the answer is no, then just say so and take responsibility for your answer.
===========================
It sure wasn’t during the Civil War, that’s for sure.
Hi, LLTVET!
“How is what I believe any more foolish than what you believe?”
I don’t believe anything that is directly contravened by scientific fact.
You do.
Is poor widdul Nathan getting his widdul feelings hurt by me, a big old bully?
Awwww . . .
I wasn’t aware that one instance proved a case. New logic? I wasn’t taught that at WSU.
GMC — I am not going to waste my time answering your post from earlier today… You are just going to keep on calling me names, and demeaning me more, when you are proven WRONG later in the day….
Go back to your Blackstone… Surely you can find something interesting to read there… It wont be the generation of electricity from WIND, but what the heck?? Might keep you from throwing ad hominems around just so you can feel like you got an extra dose of testosterone…. LOL
“In your opinion, is there ever a time in our history, where our country was better off because they listened to the democrats rather than to the republicans?”
Answer the man’s question, Nathan.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Not really capn. I just wanted him to answer my question. What the heck, it was worth a shot. No hard feelings capn?
There are few countries more radical than Turkey. Also, I believe that the majority are still somewhat oppressed in their govt.
Turkey is NOT a democracy… There is no Bill of Rights — There is no freedom of religious expression… It is run by the military… BUT, perhaps thats what the CONS envision for our country… :roll:
Hehehe, I knew that, VET.
I want him to answer the question now too.
Would it help, Nathan, if I said “I’m sowwy?”
“CAPN. Stop being a bully. I ignore you.
“Now Nathaniel: Care to answer my question? In your opinion, is there ever a time in our history, where our country was better off because they listened to the democrats rather than to the republicans?
“If you think the answer is no, then just say so and take responsibility for your answer.”
I think this is one of the truly humorous posts on this blog.
Seriously Nathan, why are you constantly focusing on the manner or perceived manner of posters, and on their behavior to the exclusion of any content, when you have an alternative?
LLVET has asked you an interesting and provocative question. And yet, you go off on Capn America’s age of the earth snark and how posters like “Linda” choose to ignore it.
Do you really have an interest in discussing issues, or are you just trading barbs? What you choose to respond to is informative as to what posting behavior really gets a response from you?
Tell you what, I am commonly seen as a “liberal” here, so I’ll go first”
I strongly opposed the elder Bush’s attack on Iraq when it happened. I now think it was the right thing to do. The coalition’s action put a lid on a potentially explosive powderkeg.
Hey good on USD 259!
This year, the form to opt out notification for military recruiters was included in my son’s enrollment info.
For readers who are parents, two federal laws linked to “No Child Left Behind” allow the military access to your child’s name, address, and telephone number. Parents must sign a form to opt out of the process and keep military recruiters from access to your child’s information.
Cap posted:
“Hehehe, I knew that, VET.
“I want him to answer the question now too.
“Would it help, Nathan, if I said ‘I’m sowwy?’”
Suggested response from Nathan:
Re: Capn’
DNFTT
Then go on and respond to LLVET, who actually politely posted a point of discussion for you.
Chas- That was what I intended to mean. Until the separation of Church and State can be absorbed in the Muslim world, I don’t see how a democracy can exist nor flourish. That perhaps can partially explain the lack of political progress in Iraq.
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink
Turkey is NOT a democracy… There is no Bill of Rights — There is no freedom of religious expression… It is run by the military… BUT, perhaps thats what the CONS envision for our country
—————————————
From the CIA World Fact book:
Type of Government: Republican Parliamentary Democracy
Constitution: 7 November 1982
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html#Govt
#
gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 1:52 pm | Permalink
I wasn’t aware that one instance proved a case. New logic? I wasn’t taught that at WSU.
———————————
They must not teach history or government at WSU. :)
Your initial challenge was: gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink
The notion that one take a nonhomogeneous Muslim society and end up with any from of a democracy is lunacy.
Turkey exists. Turkey has a form of Democracy, more european style than the U.S., but it is a Democracy.
What is it about Libs and their unwillingness to admit when they are wrong? :)
Turkey remains secular in their govt. only because of the military backing.
Oh and the request to restrict the military’s access to your child’s directory info are good only for one year and must be renewed annually.
Written requests to be excluded from directory lists provided to military recruiters must be completed and returned to the school by September 20, 2008.
Tell you what Nathaniel: I will even go first.
GOP right Dems wrong:
Cold War, Taxes, Civil War
Dems right GOP wrong:
Civil rights, Keynesian economics during the Great Depression, Separation of Church and State.
Hank posted July 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm
“LOL!
There’s no scientific consensus on AGW, cosmos.”
————
You posted that there IS a consensus, at 6:29 am .
“These questions endure even as the basic theory of a rising human influence on climate has steadily solidified: accumulating greenhouse gases will warm the world, erode ice sheets, raise seas and have big impacts on biology and human affairs.”
Prove your claim that there isn’t, Hank. Prove that Dr. Oreskes was wrong.
‘The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change’
Naomi Oreskes
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/306/5702/1686
Benny Peiser tried, and failed. Someone else tried, and failed. And a third person plagarized the second person’s failed attempt.
Since the Kansas Aviation Museum has not responded to my email request on July 19, 2008 (and a previous request), I thought some knowledgable Wichita area person might have some answers to this inquiry:
“As the developer of the Pratt Army Air Field History Center produced for
the Pratt County Historical Museum, I am planning a visit to your Museum
to research possible sources of photos and documents suitable for
digital copies for our websites.
See for reference:
http://PrattCountyMuseum.org and http://www.prattarmyairfield.com
Specifically I am looking for information on the following subjects:
Pratt AAF and Boeing’s relationships established in 1943-1945 including
recommeded modification docs, people/group profiles of those connected,
Bomb Group data (photos, stats, Boeing correspondence, newspaper
articles,etc.) for 40th, 29th, 346th and 497th bombardment groups
Film clips that could be (or have been converted) to video formats
Questions:
Do you have material for any of the above?
How do I arrange to purchase digital copies of photos or photo sets ?
How do I arrange for scans or digital copies of documents?
Unit Prices for above?
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated and we will be glad to
“blog” about this research effort as it progresses. Our future plans
include participating in a “Bombers On The Prairie” Museum project in
Pratt which would tell the whole story about the Kansas Army Air Fields
in WW II (Pratt, Walker, Great Bend and Smokey Hill and staging at
Herington). We too believe that this part of Kansas aviation history is
one of the most valuable “Resources” a community has, and should be
remembered, shared and celebrated.
Please advise.
Contacts: Milt Martin , miltm@cox.net, Website Project Manager
Marsha Brown, PCHSMuseum@sctelcom.net, Curator of Pratt Historical Museum
Jack McCawley, jaromac@netzero.com, B-29 Museum Group
Dea Dix-Brown, dixie4@sctelcom.net, Secretary of Pratt Airport Authority”
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 1:54 pm | Permalink
GMC — I am not going to waste my time answering your post from earlier today… You are just going to keep on calling me names, and demeaning me more, when you are proven WRONG later in the day….
Translation: I’m caught with my pants down – again – and rather than display my cluelessness any more, I’m gonna ignore you and pretend I have a clue. But I don’t.
It’s tought being physics-challenged. Especially when it’s basic HS physics.
Well, then, Regular, you go over to Istanbul, and go set up a Revival tent, and try preaching anything but Islam, and see how fast you land in prison… And then tell me they have a form of democracy…. They might have free elections… But so do other dictatorial nations…
#
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
Well, then, Regular, you go over to Istanbul, and go set up a Revival tent, and try preaching anything but Islam, and see how fast you land in prison… And then tell me they have a form of democracy…. They might have free elections… But so do other dictatorial nations…
—————————
Irrelevant. By definition, Turkey has a democracy.
It’s religious practices and suppression of other religions is irrelevant in defining a democracy.
I actually lived in Turkey for awhile, it is unmistakeably Muslim in custom and in practice.
There aren’t really any democratic government clones of the U.S., we are unique in the world on how our republic developed its form of democracy.
The Germans have a Democratic form of government and they also use tax monies to support Church functions. (no separation of church and state.
The English have an official Church. Much different than the U.S., yet they still have a democracy based on a Parliamentarian system which btw is what Turkey has.
SolDevVB, the temperature data sets use different reference periods — before comparing them, you have to align them.
Hadley omits the arctic region.
Satellites estimate the temperature of the lower troposphere, which is different than the surface.
‘What’s Up With That?’
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/whats-up-with-that
‘Global Temperature from GISS, NCDC, HadCRU’
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/24/giss-ncdc-hadcru
“LOL!
“There’s no scientific consensus on AGW, cosmos.
“Get over yourself!
“Your buddy in the search for global enlightenment,
“Hank”
This is just sad. Are you really so dense as to fail to realize that the very article you quoted contradicted the point you were trying to make (hint, it was about the difference between actual scientific disputes versus public perceptions about the same disputes)? Cosmos directly quoted from the article you posted.
Posting LOL when a poster nails you is, well, like I just said, sad.
And Sol, the content of a Christopher Booker editirial on the topic of global warming is predictable, and has nothing to do with the validity of the science and everything to do with his paranoia about power grabs by the EU and other international bodies.
By the way, the claims that Booker uncritically relays from McIntyre about “suppression” of evidence are just plain nonsense. It comes right out of the libertarian (and in this case Tory) paranoia book. Booker’s inference that McIntyre conclusively has debunked the hockey stick is particularly outrageous. If McIntyre had done what Booker claimed, it would have been published in peer reviewed sources rather than a shill journal. Either that, or there truly is a worldwide conspiracy to suppress evidence against anthropogenic global warming. Which, of course, contradicts Hanks (mistaken) claim about the meaning of the NY Times article he posted.
http://info-pollution.com/mandm.htm
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Stephen_McIntyre
Who would have thunk it, the jawless fish is a GORACLE worshiper at the First Church of AGW.
Oh and more information for parents of middle and high school students.
Be aware of a course called “Leadership”.
It is ACTUALLY Junior ROTC. A recruitment training program for the military.
The fact that they are not more honest about the name of the program is open to speculation.
GMC — All you can do is mudslinging… since you cannot refute whast I posted as a response to you earlier, you continue to fling ad hominems… GET A LIFE, nitwit…
Highest CO2 level in 800,000 but we have cooled since 1998.
Hmmmm.
IPCC lies in its draft copies. Hmmmm. How many made it through?
No computer model has ever correctly predicted climate change. Hmmmm.
“Who would have thunk it, the jawless fish is a GORACLE worshiper at the First Church of AGW.”
Re: Regular
DNFTT
See how it works Nathan? Sol, and even your father, had posts I considered worth responding to. There were points (bad points, in my opinion, but points nevertheless). So they get responses.
Regular?
See above.
It is ACTUALLY Junior ROTC
Nothing wrong with that. I took a semester in high school. It is very much about teaching leadership. Why wouldn’t you want your kids to become leaders?
I try not to comment on a poster’s deportment. I have a few times and usually find myself needing to issue an apology when I do. Actually, it’s not any of my business how others comport themselves. Nathan thinks I am the most hypocritical poster on the blog and a long list of other bad things he is constantly telling me and everyone else about. I have never met this little soldier boy, but a day doesn’t go by that he doesn’t bring me into some of his criticisms. It can’t be that he has a “crush” on me — I’m old, fat, grey, ugly. Why do you think he has this obsession with me? I don’t have this kind of power over any other human! Although my dog is quite enamored of me and thinks about me about as often as Nathan seem to.
Regular- My comments were directed to the futility of Iraq. What I said was too broadly based, and could be debated. What you have said about Turkey would be the only exception I can think of to what I initially said. I do think that for the most part, the Muslim/Democracy concept is an oil/vinegar situation.
Sol, check your inbox……………….
Personal experience here.
The experience of others may vary.
My son was enlisted in the Junior ROTC when he was (I think) 11.
This was done with NO notification from the school or the program to me. No note home, no phone call, nothing.
I for one, do not think that this is appropriate.
When I explained the situation to my son, Told him just what exactly the ROTC is about and made him aware he had been convinced to join something without even proper parental involvement or notification he made his own decision that he did not wish to be involved in the program.
Linda,
Apparently Nathananiel has appointed you, or anyone else he doesn’t agree with, as the blog conscience. But only in regards to calling out OTHER people he doesn’t agree with.
He did this to me last week when I asked GMC to PLEASE stop egging on Chas so that we could have normal adult conversation on the blog. Somehow that request became me being a “lib” poster who should have also called out cosmos for his posts about AGW. (Which by the way, as I am sure Sol can tell you, two or so weeks ago, I DID request that everyone stop posting on AGW so that normal discussion could resume) Now, to give him credit, he did admit I had valid points in my response to that post. Although he told me I was going too far by stating that if I disagree with him I am apparently not welcome to post (although that is exactly the feeling I got as soon as he went on the attack when I asked GMC to stop – apparently it was because I asked GMC and not Chas., which at the time seemed the better thing to do because I thought GMC might listen… in the future I will be sure to direct my comments to whichever poster appears to disagree with Nathaniel, as that is the only way I won’t get jumped on for defending “libs” – LOL even though I am not a “lib” and none of my posts have had anything to do with anything political- except my response to Sol regarding the expense of the AGW debate)
#
gster
Posted July 30, 2008 at 2:46 pm | Permalink
Regular- My comments were directed to the futility of Iraq. What I said was too broadly based, and could be debated. What you have said about Turkey would be the only exception I can think of to what I initially said. I do think that for the most part, the Muslim/Democracy concept is an oil/vinegar situation.
==========================
Oil and vinegar…mmmmm
They sell that at the grocers you know. Quite tasty and must be shaken before use.
I suppose some agitation occurs in analogy of a democratic government must occur as well.
Shaken not stirred.
“Highest CO2 level in 800,000 but we have cooled since 1998.
“Hmmmm.”
Misleading. Also bullsh*t. No one is assuming that there aren’t non-anthropogenic factors, but short term reversals (particularly when they have ready explanations). The climate still fluctuates, but if the range of fluctuation changes upwards and that change in range is strongly correlated with increases in atmosphetic CO2, the hypothesis of human caused global warming is still supported. Again, please document a world wide conspiracy including organizations like the National Academy of Sciences. Posting editorials from the Daily Telegraph is hardly an authoritative rebuttal or a source for your claim.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7329799.stm
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/39/14288.abstract
“IPCC lies in its draft copies. Hmmmm. How many made it through?”
Unfounded attribution of motive aka poisoning the well.
“No computer model has ever correctly predicted climate change. Hmmmm.”
Now you are just saying what you want to believe.
Your motives, I strongly suspect, are connected more to your libertarian beliefs (broad government interventions in economics = bad, and are likely to occur in response to “manufactured” crises). However, the scientific support for global warming does not, by itself, automatically suggest particular solutions, or the degree to public versus private action. Global warming critics tend to have political, rather than scientific, affiliations, that are predictive of their critical stance.
BlueJay,
What is it you are worried your son might learn in the ROTC?
CapnAmerica,
We have had this discussion several times now and you NEVER finish it. You always start it, but you never stay to finish it.
At some point, your belief is a rejection of scientific fact as well.
You just do it at a different point than I do.
And no, you are not hurting my feelings. Just pointing out the Hypocrisy by those on the left here.
I don’t care if you want to have this discussion every day all day. Just pointing out that we had made an agreement and you keep violating it.
It appears to be a trend here. A liberal gives his word on something, makes an agreement and then backs out of it.
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 2:39 pm | Permalink
GMC — All you can do is mudslinging… since you cannot refute whast I posted as a response to you earlier, you continue to fling ad hominems… GET A LIFE, nitwit… (emphasis added)
—
Already done. With specifics, and quotes. In terms that even the physics-challenged like you can understand. Nitwit.
You remind me of “brave” Sir Robin of Monty Python fame . . .
In case you missed them before, here we go again.
IPCC LIES
”
It is a bit of a stretch to claim three centuries of awareness of greenhouse gases contributing to a
possible climate warming effect
is several centuries old. I think it was Arrhenius who actually made a public case of it, in just a bit over century and a decade ago.
[Jerry Mahlman]
”
Status
Noted. Text has been edited.
Emphisis mine.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Comments/wg1-commentFrameset.html
”
One could quibble with the idea that “observations … are the foundation of our science”,
since
the whole IPCC enterprise is motivated by the theory of global warming due to
increasing greenhouse gases.
I’d suggest changing “the foundation” to “a foundation”.
[Dian Seidel]
”
Status:
Accepted. Text has been edited.
Emphasis mine.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Comments/wg1-commentFrameset.html
“
“Over the last decade global land-surface sets have been able to increase the number of
stations substantially”.
Is untrue.There has been a substantial reduction
in the number of stations since 1980. see T C Peterson and R S Vose 1997 “An Overview of the Global
Historical Climatology Network Temperature Database” Bulletin of the Royal
Meteorological Society Vol 78, pages 2837-2849. There has been a particularly large
reduction in the former Soviet Union. Delete from “decade” on line 30 to “not” on line 33
and replace with “substantial reductions in numbers of stations, and in their reliability,
since 1980, have affected accuracy of recent figures”.
[Vincent Gray]
”
Status:
Noted. Text has been edited.
Emphasis mine.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Comments/wg1-commentFrameset.html
”
Replace “Remarkable success” with “usefulness”
No model has yet succeeded in
predicting a future climate change
and until one does they cannot be considered
particularly “successful”
[Vincent Gray]
”
Status:
Noted. Text has been edited.
Emphasis mine.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Comments/wg1-commentFrameset.html
“Unstated here is the mega-challenge on how to properly initialize the complete climate
system in our models.
Many tricks are employed
that produce an equilibrated state, but
not necessarily comfortably close
”
Emphasis mine.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Comments/wg1-commentFrameset.html
”
We always have to be very careful when we discuss “abrupt climate change”. Typically,
such “abrupt”
climate changes take decades to centuries to millenia,
e.g. thermohaline
circulation slowdown/collapse(50-100 years), West Antarctic ice sheet collapse(500-
1000years) ; Arctic summer sea ice melting roughly a century or so).
[Jerry Mahlman]
”
Status:
The point is well taken, although much
faster changes than those cited by the
reviewer are now known to occur. We
will alter the text to clarify the concept
of abrupt climate change.
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Comments/wg1-commentFrameset.html
Anon, I chuckled at your response! I’ve noticed the blog conscience is spoken of often. I think I’ll stick with knowing each post tells much about that poster and we’re all adults able to discern what that is without needing someone’s approval or disapproval. ;-)
And just for fun..
Take a look at the chart Ben posted. Look at the far right. You will see that CO2 has markedly increased, right in the middle of a temperature decrease. Explain?
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=41&tstamp=200709
LLTVET,
I am still missing the point? What if I do not have anything I agree with liberals on?
What if I do?
What does it matter?
What is your point?
& desperatly want out….You people need jobs…or lives…It is so nice to see Apophis and old man price bridging that gap though….lol!
You both make good points here & there….they just happen to be pointed directly at each other. You neanderthal cavemen need to give it a rest already.
Sol:
1) Your links don’t work.
2) Your comments seem to be editorial statements from ipcc comment blogs. The attribution of sinister motive (i.e., lying) is not supported by other people making attributions of motive (i.e., lying).
Anon1,
I don’t think I have ever told you that you were not welcome to post here.
Why do you feel the need to skew the truth and say I did?
They are editorial comments. To say that computer models have had “Remarkable success” when in fact
No model has yet succeeded in predicting a future climate change
Isn’t lying?
To state that “Over the last decade global land-surface sets have been able to increase the number of
stations substantially”.
When in fact
Is untrue.There has been a substantial reduction
Isn’t a lie?
Dunno what your definition of a lie is, but see above for mine.
Oh the horror! GASP!
Not the ROTC…. your son might actually learn something about those evil things you hate like:
Honor, Courage, Respect, Responsiblity…
Good thing you got him out when you did.
“And just for fun..
“Take a look at the chart Ben posted. Look at the far right. You will see that CO2 has markedly increased, right in the middle of a temperature decrease. Explain?”
What part of… “No one is assuming that there aren’t non-anthropogenic factors, but short term reversals (particularly when they have ready explanations). The climate still fluctuates, but if the range of fluctuation changes upwards and that change in range is strongly correlated with increases in atmosphetic CO2, the hypothesis of human caused global warming is still supported.”
…do you not understand? By the way, note the entirity of the graph, the decrease at the end is hardly marked (arguably a leveling off).
Are you just satisfied to pretend that your straw man of AGW supprters argue that CO2 overwhelms any other possible fluctations has not been pointed out as being a straw man?
Wouldn’t strawmen increase co2 levels?
Might be some methane in there too…pheweee!!
I got the references back before they took down the web pages. Can’t imagine why they would do that. Cosmo has another link, but it is an absolute w-hore to page through. If you want to dig through it, be my guest.
…do you not understand? By the way, note the entirity of the graph, the decrease at the end is hardly marked (arguably a leveling off).
Do you not understand? The CO2 is off the chart. I mean off the damn chart. But we are cooling, or even to use your words, leveling. So a devastating rise in CO2 and we are leveling. Seems to me CO2 doesn’t do much to drive climate. How can you explain such a drastic departure from CO2 and temps?
BlueJay,
The school will not enroll your son into the JROTC. It is his choice to begin with.
So basically, he made his choice and then you talked him out of it.
SolDevVB posted July 30, 2008 at 3:08 pm
“And just for fun..
Take a look at the chart Ben posted. Look at the far right. You will see that CO2 has markedly increased, right in the middle of a temperature decrease. Explain?”
—————
I’ve already explained that to SolDevVB, but he doesn’t seem to have the tiny amount of brain required to understand.
Or else he’s just wasting time, and trolling?
The next graph from the original source shows the trend much more accurately.
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/historical03.jsp
Of course you chose that graph cosmo. It stops at 1998, when global warming did. Why don’t you pop one up there that has recent data.
CF2K,
Need to talk with you offline if I can…
Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet
the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect
is a hotspot about 10 km up in the atmosphere over the tropics.
We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes—weather
balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends
through the atmosphere. They show no hotspot whatsoever.
So an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of the recent global warming. So we
now know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global
warming.
…
(By the way, the IPCC omitted signature data for what most skeptics believe is the
prime suspect for global warming, namely clouds/cosmic rays/the sun’s magnetic field.
Clouds are the main factor that control the earth’s temperature, and are the least
understood and most poorly represented factor in the climate models.
http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/DavidEvansmissingsignature.pdf
SolDevVB,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/07/open-thread-730-2/#comment-392801
Linda,
I don’t have any obsession with you. It is a public blog. You make comments, I make comments.
Get over yourself.
Well, there’s something good coming out of l’affaire Stevens, after all.
Senate Republicans today named Kay Bailey Hutchinson as acting ranking member of the Commerce Committee.
See, Republicans CAN do something right!
Linda:
“I have never met this little soldier boy, but a day doesn’t go by that he doesn’t bring me into some of his criticisms…. Why do you think he has this obsession with me? I don’t have this kind of power over any other human! Although my dog is quite enamored of me and thinks about me about as often as Nathan seems to.”
*****
I believe Linda has a point. Do you, Nathan, have an explanation?
cosmo,
Yup, all sets show cooling with a peak at 1998. Thanx.
http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/watts1.jpg
Sorry, Nathan, I had not read your non-response response before I posted the above.
Never mind…
I see Linda has caught the sent of a lesser stag (SED)… :(
L8r
SolDevVB,
That’s right — there was a record warm El Nino in 1998. And a La Nina and solar minimum in 2007. But perhaps you’re unable to understand the significance of those facts?
Re David Evans,
‘The Australian’s War on Science XV’
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/07/the_australians_war_on_science_16.php
“The Australian continues to display its contempt for science, scientists and the scientific method. They’ve published this piece of AGW denial by David Evans. Last time I looked at Evans he was saying that new evidence since 1999 had changed his mind about global warming, with this new evidence including the fact that the world had cooled from 1940 to 1975. Apparently this was too silly even for the Australian, so he now offers us four alleged facts.”
More at link.
‘David Evans and that “missing” signature’
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/07/david_evans_and_that_missing_s.php
“…the Goodlingization of the executive branch.”
Ruth Marcus has got it correct here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072901967.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Different subject. Great national health care in Britian.
“Existing Alzheimer’s drugs costing £2.50 have been banned for NHS use in sufferers of ‘mild’ disease on grounds of cost.
Um, Nathaniel, I never said you SAID I wasn’t welcome to post here. I inferred, based on your immediate response to my original request to GMC in which you basically denigrated me for not calling out all the posters who disagree with you on a regular basis, that if I didn’t agree with you, I shouldn’t bother to post. But that inference was based on your own responses to my post. I had not said anything to you at that point, you drug me into it by basically making it my responsibility to call out anyone YOU thought was being unfair. Your immediate dismissal of my posting and subsequent charging to me of being unfair implied that if I did not agree with you, I should not post. And in fact, if you re-read my ABOVE post, I never said that you SAID I should not post here.
BTW – You are the one who continually brings Linda into the conversation by asking why doesn’t she call out so-and-so on their behavior… even I, as a person who only comes here infrequently, has seen this happen numerous times, typically at least once a day, here…
Anon1,
It is because I wonder why Linda only selectively calls out people for their behavior here and only when it is a Conservative doing it.
My posting to you had nothing to do with agreement or disgreement with me either.
You keep completely mischaracterizing what I have said and done.
And this IS what you said earlier:
“Although he told me I was going too far by stating that if I disagree with him I am apparently not welcome to post…”
I have never said any such thing.
Nathaniel: I just want you to say what they are. I don’t want to be guilty of a strawman. So I want to make sure I know what your positions are.
Can’t you just answer the question? That way I know what your position actually is.
I will repeat the question since you seem to have altered it: Is there any time in US history when the Dems were right and the GOP was wrong and the decision made our country better?
LLTVET,
The Political parties as we know them have not always been this way.
Democrats vs Republicans are merely two different political parties which have become more or less liberal and Conservative over the years or have changed on different issues here and there.
So sure, there have been times where the “Democrats” have probably done something to make the country better.
There are plenty of times where I think that the Republicans have done something wrong that I don’t agree with.
Again, what is your point?
I gave the point long ago Nathaniel. Scroll up and you will see it.
I didn’t accuse you of anything. I just said that it was hard to see you as anything other than a person who only wants one party. I gave you a chance to explain. You finally answered my question, all is well chief. Relax.
GMC has claimed that electricity is made by means of “mechanical energy” —-
When did wind, solar, and water become mechanical energy, GMC??
You have not explained your claim, but you call me names, and throw ad hominems at will…
Regular: Still no post yet as to arm flailing. I’m afraid there aren’t any “Arm Flailers Anonymous” meetings here in Wichita.
You think you can help me out here chief? What is this Arm Flailing? I asked my co-worker if she saw my Arms Flailing. She said she couldn’t see it. God knows I don’t want to be guilty of “Arm Flailing”
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed into law a strictly partisan bill, SB1770, passed by pro-abortion Democrats, extending for another 5 years the “Reproductive Rights Law Enforcement Act,” which requires the state to gather statistics on crimes against abortionist quacks – and adds a provision that could result in police taking a more hostile approach against what Planned Parenthood calls “aggressive protesters.”
Meanwhile, as Planned Parenthood continues to complain about an inadequate number of arrests, most of the violent crimes are being committed against pro-lifers, and against desperate, coerced mothers and their babies inside the unsafe, criminal, abortion mills.
Never, never, never trust a RINO.
- – -
Arizona toddler Chloe Levine had cerebral palsy and was unable to perform tasks such as holding her bottle with her right hand or crawling. After a diagnosis with a neurologist, Levine’s parents say they learned she had right-side hemiplegic cerebral palsy and would need nearly two decades of therapy. Then, the Levine family learned of an experimental procedure at Duke University where doctors were using children’s own stem cells from umbilical cord blood to heal and repair damaged brain tissue.
Chloe is now two years-old and, two months ago, she had the injection of her own banked umbilical cord blood stem cells. She’s made a 50% recovery, and can walk, run, and do sign language with her right hand.
Meanwhile, useless, unethical embryonic stem cell research still cures nothing, and likely never will.
And the best place for the next taxpayer-funded umbilical cord blood bank would be – Kansas.
- – -
Seneca was named among the first 100 Illinois towns to be found in compliance with a new signage law for Safe Haven facilities. The law, passed Aug. 17, 2007, required all Illinois hospitals, fire stations, police stations and sheriff’s offices that are safe havens for newborn babies to post regulated signs on the exterior of the building in a conspicuous location.
All 50 states now have a form of safe haven law for the legalized abandonment of unharmed newborns. In Illinois, the 2001 Safe Haven law allows a parent of a newborn infant up to 7 days old to anonymously relinquish the unharmed baby to a staff member without fear of prosecution. Since its enactment in 2001, 44 infants have been safely relinquished in Illinois and there have been 49 unsafe, illegal abandonments, causing the deaths of some of the infants. Lawmakers hope that better safe haven signage and better public knowledge of the use of the Safe Haven law will reduce the number of unsafe, illegal abandonments and infant deaths.
- – -
“We claimed that between five and ten thousand women a year died of botched abortions. The actual figure was closer to 200 to 300 and we also claimed that there were a million illegal abortions a year in the United States and the actual figure was close to 200,000. So, we were guilty of massive deception.”
. . . former abortionist quack Dr. Bernard Nathanson, on the lies, fraud, and illegal judicial activism used to legalize the nearly unrestricted abortion in the USofA that has killed 50 million American babies
[Nathanson was converted to a pro-life viewpoint after a newly-invented ultrasound device showed him a living human baby recoiling and trying to escape the heartless vacuum tube that was violently killing her piece by piece.]
Alas. Still no response on the Arm Flailing. I will have to be lost in my arm flailing sin for another day because it’s quitting time. I’m certain that my good buddy regular will find a witty, charming way to save face sometime later tonight. Have a nice evening everyone.
“Not the ROTC…. your son might actually learn something about those evil things you hate like:
Honor, Courage, Respect, Responsiblity…
Good thing you got him out when you did.”
You bet it is.
Why don’t they call it junior ROTC instead of “leadership”?
Why do they involve kids as young as 10 with absolutely NO parental involvement or notification?
More?
When my son transitioned to middle school, the principal leaned on me to PUT my son in “leadership”.
“With our… slower kids, we like to get them into ROTC. It’s sort of a practice around here.” says the principle.
“Not with my kid it isn’t.” says I.
These are some of the things that sum up the contributing factors that I believe are the main reasons children are murdering others:
1. Our national preoccupation with violence that has saturated all forms of the media which desensitizes human emotions by exposure to so much murder and preoccupation with death.
2. The absence of strong parenting due to the increase of both parents working. Also, the lack of a strong father figure in homes due to divorce rising.
3. Ignorance of Biblical truths that show parents how to deal with problem children. Parents don’t recognize that their children need deliverance from demonic influences. This is a spiritual problem and cannot be solved by just therapy or medication alone.
4. Lack of prayer for our youth in our homes and our schools. (Since prayer was removed from our schools in 1962 the rate of crime among our youth has escalated).
5. The influence of cultic and witchcraft practices in our society.
6. The failure of Christians to reach out to the misfits in our society with the gospel.
7. Lack of discipline with a permissive humanistic influence toward children.
8.)Lack of teaching our children standards and absolutes as outlined in the Bible.
9. Lack of regard for human life as demonstrated through abortion, euthanasia and evolutionary teachings of the survival of the fittest.
10. The lack of teaching our children Biblical truths that promote character and teach them how to deal with the emotions of anger, hatred and revenge that lead to murder.
Bottom line… our problem has been one of sin and selfishness in this nation and now we are reaping the fruit of that sin. Unless we all take responsibility for repenting and doing our part to change this world for the better, tragedies will continue to increase and get worse. Many have thought the gun and violence issue was the result of poverty in the inner cities or a lack of education, so more money was poured into our education system. It is not a lack of money but a lack of God and character in our society that has produced this violence and until we come back to Christian principles in our world evil will continue to abound.
Chas
Posted July 30, 2008 at 4:45 pm | Permalink
GMC has claimed that electricity is made by means of “mechanical energy” —-
Why would he say something like that?
A generator is a device that converts mechanical energy into electrical energy.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/electricity.html#Generation
I never have taught at a school that has Jr. ROTC , but I do see JR’s point in the subterfuge that is involved in masking what the class truly is. I’m not sure there is anything wrong with one of these classes, but I think there are other worthwhile classes middle school students need more as electives.
I am also overjoyed to hear that the recruiter “opt-out” form is being included in the high school enrollment packets. That whole thing stinks to high heaven. Since our youngest is now in college, we haven’t had to deal with this issue for the last couple of years. I still don’t know why recruiters need that information anyway. Could it be to provide more cannon fodder for bush’s folly in Iraq?
Note that I made no negative assessment on the JROTC.
Other than to mention their seemingly evasiveness of parental notification.
I was not ASKED to learn more about the program. So I didn’t. What I might think did not seem to matter in the instances I mention above.
I WAS mindful of the scene of the recruiters in Michael Moore’s “Fahrenheit 911″. I felt it important for my son to see that scene before he made the decision about the JROTC.
VOIGHT: My concerns for America
Obama sowing socialist seeds in young people
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/28/voight/
Monday, July 28, 2008
Actor Jon Voight. Associated Press.
OP-ED
We, as parents, are well aware of the importance of our teachers who teach and program our children. We also know how important it is for our children to play with good-thinking children growing up.
Sen. Barack Obama has grown up with the teaching of very angry, militant white and black people: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, William Ayers and Rev. Michael Pfleger. We cannot say we are not affected by teachers who are militant and angry. We know too well that we become like them, and Mr. Obama will run this country in their mindset.
The Democratic Party, in its quest for power, has managed a propaganda campaign with subliminal messages, creating a God-like figure in a man who falls short in every way. It seems to me that if Mr. Obama wins the presidential election, then Messrs. Farrakhan, Wright, Ayers and Pfleger will gain power for their need to demoralize this country and help create a socialist America.
The Democrats have targeted young people, knowing how easy it is to bring forth whatever is needed to program their minds. I know this process well. I was caught up in the hysteria during the Vietnam era, which was brought about through Marxist propaganda underlying the so-called peace movement. The radicals of that era were successful in giving the communists power to bring forth the killing fields and slaughter 2.5 million people in Cambodia and South Vietnam. Did they stop the war, or did they bring the war to those innocent people? In the end, they turned their backs on all the horror and suffering they helped create and walked away.
Those same leaders who were in the streets in the ’60s are very powerful today in their work to bring down the Iraq war and to attack our president, and they have found their way into our schools. William Ayers is a good example of that.
Thank God, today, we have a strong generation of young soldiers who know exactly who they are and what they must do to protect our freedom and our democracy. And we have the leadership of Gen. David Petraeus, who has brought hope and stability to Iraq and prevented the terrorists from establishing a base in that country. Our soldiers are lifting us to an example of patriotism at a time when we’ve almost forgotten who we are and what is at stake.
If Mr. Obama had his way, he would have pulled our troops from Iraq years ago and initiated an unprecedented bloodbath, turning over that country to the barbarianism of our enemies. With what he has openly stated about his plans for our military, and his lack of understanding about the true nature of our enemies, there’s not a cell in my body that can accept the idea that Mr. Obama can keep us safe from the terrorists around the world, and from Iran, which is making great strides toward getting the atomic bomb. And while a misleading portrait of Mr. Obama is being perpetrated by a media controlled by the Democrats, the Obama camp has sent out people to attack the greatness of Sen. John McCain, whose suffering and courage in a Hanoi prison camp is an American legend.
Gen. Wesley Clark, who himself has shame upon him, having been relieved of his command, has done their bidding and become a lying fool in his need to demean a fellow soldier and a true hero.
This is a perilous time, and more than ever, the world needs a united and strong America. If, God forbid, we live to see Mr. Obama president, we will live through a socialist era that America has not seen before, and our country will be weakened in every way.
Jon Voight is an Academy Award-winning actor who is well-known for his humanitarian work.
Chas –
Chase down Hud’s link, at 5:58 above. You’ll learn something.
Note, BTW, that the link is to part of the “kids” page at the DOE website. Duh.
Then you can admit – gasp – error!!!
You’re welcome.
Possibly, GMC… However, HUD’s link doed not answer my question completely…
When did WIND become mechanical energy??
What is it in that question that you are not understanding??
Chad, you wife should just go ahead and choke the sh** out of you. I swear, you are the most dense, most in denial, most arrogant, most self-rightous, self-centered person I have ever interacted with.
This isn’t rocket science, Chas. Think. For just one minute. What are the blades of the windmill attached to?
Good God . . .
Family emergency — have to go…
Good night; Good luck; God bless —-
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
Blessings on Tenessee Valley Unitarian Church!!
So mote it be!!
RedWhiteNBlue, are you really for real, or are you a bad Colbertian satirical troll. I suspect the latter.
As for American:
Jon Voigt says Obama is a socialist. Eeeeeek! Run for the hills.
For those interested >>>>
Service of Remembrance
The First Unitarian Universalist Church of Wichita (7202 E 21st N) will hold a service of remembrance at Sunday, August 3, at 4:00 p.m. for the victims of the tragic shooting that occurred last Sunday in Knoxville TN.
The service will include hymns, poems and readings chosen to emphasize the positive work of the Tennessee church, as well as the hurt and loss suffered by people of faith everywhere, when senseless acts of hate occur on sacred ground.
Two people were killed and seven injured during church service last Sunday at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, in Knoxville Tennessee.
Persons of all faith traditions are invited to attend this memorial service.
Faith leaders who wish to speak are asked to contact the congregational president, so that we may include you in the order of service.
For further information, please contact the Congregational President at 316-250-4121 or president@firstuu.net.
GMC70:
You and I don’t agree on much of anything (in fact, I think you are way too pessimistic about the potential contribution wind energy can make to our overall energy production).
However, on this issue with Chas, you have my sympathies.
Personally, I think another DNFTT may be in order.
Most forms of power production convert mechanical energy to electricity. That’s what a turbine is, an mechanism for converting mechanical energy into electricity. The difference is in what drives the turbine (I may be being a little simplistic here, but I think overall that is the point).
Thanks for the heads up Chas. We may not be in town for that, but there is also a UU church where we will be.
It should be, or course, a mechanism, not “an mechanism”.
The fact is, most methods of power generation involve turbines, and the difference is in what drives them. Arguing that wind energy does not convert mechanical energy into electicity simply does not make sense.
HEY I agree with Crowson’s cartoon today. Why not go to all year school since they’re about there anyway.
Thanks for the heads up, Chas. I’ll be busy then, but I will surely stop for a while in remembrance.
I’m telling you, if you really want to improve grades and test scores…do all year school with breaks every three months. It would give kids who struggle a chance to catch up in between, there would be an opportunity for remediation before it gets to the point of failure.
BlueJay, if your claim about being enrolled in J ROTC is true, I would be pissed not to be notified as a parent as well. I recall way back when I was in school that it was an option, not an auto enrollment. Perhaps I misunderstood your statement, but did you intend to say the students were automatically enrolled in the program?
…….why would you do that price?
Afterall, it was just a few “godless” liberals who were murdered by a god and reichwing endorsed conservative.
You should be ashamed of your self old man.
I think the ROTC program is a great program, but as a parent I would be upset to not be informed of enrollment of my underage child. Prices’, surely this can’t be right? As I remember, I was required to have consent to enter the program from my folks
Well, that was my attempt at substance…..I suppose fights get better blog time..:)
I have posted as to this before.
It IS true. My son was convinced to join the JROTC and I was not notified in any way shape or form. He was ten or eleven at the time.
Now I have some idea of what the JROTC is. It functions as a sort of military recruitment tool.
I don’t have any real problem with that.
But to call it “leadership” and enroll kids without parental consent or notification is worrisome to me.
For human sexuality education there is a parental consent form.
For AIDS education, there is a parental consent form.
I know, as I signed both today.
The JROTC does their program no favors by being deceptive and coercive.
I would have a problem with that as well. It should be called what it is. I like and respect the program that I knew, but it should be notified to the parents. Not disguised as something else.
LOL!
You seem to have some serious problems, Apophis! First thing in the morning and last thing at night you seem to be compelled attack some poor ol’ deranged, broken down, over the hill, retired submarine sailor.
I’m flattered actually.
You never said if you ever got around to the Museum of Science and industry while in Chicago. I go to Chicago for no other reason than to see the U-505 exhibit. I haven’t seen it since they moved it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QCw9JSipUc&feature=related
On this BlueJay, the only thing I disagree with is in my experience, I didn’t see it as a recruitment tool…but I am a hard headed ole’ boy.
RWB…if you’re not satire….you’re one extremely freaky f’d up dude.
To prove my stupidity, I had an opportunity (made the grades/jumped the hoops) to go to the Air Force Academy….I wanted to fly jets, but I was told at the time my eyes weren’t good enough…I told them to piss off. I lost a free education because of my hard headedness and I still regret that.
“…….why would you do that price?
“Afterall, it was just a few ‘godless’ liberals who were murdered by a god and reichwing endorsed conservative.
“You should be ashamed of your self old man.”
No, you should be ashamed of yourself, Apophis. I have very strong differences with Hank, but if he comes to the First UU Church of Wichita to pay his respects (I am a member, although presently inactive, by the way), then I guarantee that he will be welcome.
The idea that just because someone is a Christian conservative that he ’should be ashamed of himself’ for showing compassion is shameful on more than one level. It’s a truly ridiculous straw man.
#
Political_mama
Posted July 30, 2008 at 10:18 pm | Permalink
RWB…if you’re not satire….you’re one extremely freaky f’d up dude.
—-
Yeah, I think everyone gets that…
Thanks, Agnatha!
I know a few members of the First UU Church of Wichita. Very good people, good Christians.
Forgive poor ol’ Apophis, I do. He might just be off his meds. I don’t take it personal. I just represent scary conservatives to him.
Poor consumer, first China poisons us, then Mexico!
“Tomatoes had been the prime suspect in the nationwide outbreak for weeks. But last week, the FDA said only jalapeno peppers grown in Mexico were currently implicated in the nationwide salmonella outbreak. The FDA said then it had found the same strain of salmonella responsible for the outbreak on a single Mexican-grown jalapeno in a south Texas produce warehouse. The agency explained that any contaminated tomatoes would be out of the food supply chain by now.
Agnatha says:
“The fact is, most methods of power generation involve turbines, and the difference is in what drives them. Arguing that wind energy does not convert mechanical energy into electicity simply does not make sense.”
How true a statement — “the difference is in what drives them” —
THAT has been my point all along..
Here’s what I am trying to say — And it isnt something to be demeaned and belittled ALL DAY >>>>
WIND energy turns the turbine, without any manipulation of the WIND….
If you have a coal fired generator, then the Coal heats the water to extreme temps… making steam, which is then “compressed” to turn the turbine, which makes the electricity…
If you use nuclear, the process is similar, except that it is nuclear power that makes the heat that turns the water INTO steam, that turns the turbines….
If you use geo-thermal, the process is similar… heating the water, manipulating it into Steam, that turns the turbines…
If you use Water, the water is manipulated by a Dam, or a water channel, to create the force necessary to turn the turbines, that makes the electricity…
But, the beauty of WIND… ahhhh WIND….
The wind strikes the blades which are in essence the turbine, that makes the electricity…. directly … without manipulation…
THAT is why I am advocating WIND powered generators!! And YES I have used the term generators!! WHAT is the big friggin deal… What makes that WRONG, GMC, and makes you so damned friggin RIGHT???
Just in case you guys haven’t noticed, this RWNB really sucks when it comes to doing his own material. The guy/gal is a thief – to wit:
http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=217
scroll to the bottom of the page. If we are going to be regaled with truly crazy and stupid far right christian conservative crap, the poster could at least create his own material. This person is a sham.
“The fact is, most methods of power generation involve turbines, and the difference is in what drives them. Arguing that wind energy does not convert mechanical energy into electicity simply does not make sense.”
—–
You have to have a force to MECHANICALLY turn the turbine which creates electricity.
So yes, mechanical energy equals electricity when a generator is involved.
generator=motor (electric for Chas)
I don’t think a lot of people realize what this country could potentially turn into being lead by Obama. Liberals have become very dangerous indeed, and their agendas although they may not believe it will lead to our further decline and downfall. If Obama thinks he can be buddies with the nations who threaten us and others and get them to change their minds, ask this, can you be buddies with the devil and get him to change his mind? He’ll act like your buddy for sure to start with, but soon thereafter you will find that he is a user and he thinks of any followers or “buddies” as expendable. He has no true friends. Because he is not a friend at all. He will use you for what you can get him, and then discard you without so much as a second look. So, why does Obama think he can change their minds? That would mean he thinks he can get them to give up their strong religious convictions and beliefs. That’s what Ahmadinejad believes he is working at and for. To pave the way for their mahdi.
We would become a nation who has no morals, and is luke warm through and though. Abortionists, gay marriage would arise maybe be federally legalized, they might even completely open the borders because they are the ones that believe in these “sanctuary cities.” What else? We almost definitely would be forced to become underground churches. Would they ban the Bible for being “hate speech”? That’s the standpoint Obama has taken on people who try to tell the truth about him. You can’t speak the truth if the majority and the president thinks it’s hate speech. Idunno. This whole idea of him becoming president just literally makes me ill. And scared. I guess I shouldn’t be, but I’m not sure how much we’ll have to live through before the return of our Lord for us.
Ole reliable music for dubyaSClark- good blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RzrmeUCxsM&feature=related
I have had an unbelieving brother have a visceral reaction to a discussion about God and what happens when we die and an unbelieving sister go ballistic over just the mention of the bible.
My sense is that deep down they both know God is real, and that there is a judgement coming. They surround themselves with others who validate their aetheism so they don’t have to deal with any conflict in this area in their daily lives. But when the topic surfaces and the Truth is mentioned, there is a deep negative reaction because the Truth registers somewhere deep inside and aI think they can’t deal with the reality of that Truth. So they strike out at the messenger. I have been so surprised as well at the intensity of the attacks.
Only the bible, and the name of Jesus and God as creator bring about those kind of reactions. False religions and spiritual ideas don’t seem to bother people, and they don’t create those reactions. Just the Truth. They don’t want to hear the Truth. Its a deliberate choice to reject the Truth whether they realize it or not.
I had another family member reject the Truth recently, and I have been down about it too. I get discouraged as well. However I heard in my heart Jesus saying, “They are rejecting me, not you.” And that just makes me want to cry – both for Jesus and for them. I wish they knew what we know and would say YES to Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
RWNB —- The idea of YOU being free to spew forth your lies, and hate, sends chills through me…. BUT… that is just one of the great things about this great nation we have here… To turn a blind eye to all of the current violence among us, by delegating it to some sort of supernatural realm, “allowed” to exist by a God of “love” makes little or no sense to me… BUT…. our nation says you have the freedom to have your beliefs…. Fortunately, you dont have the POWER to force those beliefs on the rest of the nation, or heaven forbid, the world… Oh well, Carry on Fool!!
Its people who try to force that view on everyone else who get the anger. Not those who simply live their religion and don’t hurt or inflict it on others.
Christian Taliban…face it, if we lived by the bible…as you would like….we WOULD live like Iran and Afghanistan.
You would be thrilled to stamp out freedom of religion and you know it. And then whose version of the bible?
Chas – it’s just basic physics. It matters not what turns the generator, it’s still mechanical energy, converted to electrical energy. Electrical energy is thus the medium, the way to transport energy, rather than the energy itself. Many, in the headlong embrace of “clean” electricity, forget that.
As to wind – as you say
The wind strikes the blades which are in essence the turbine, that makes the electricity…. directly … without manipulation…
that is of course it’s great downfall. It is subject to the randomness of the wind, unable to be ginned up when needed, unable to be stored for later use. Despite our rush to embrace it, wind will never be more than a marginal supplier of electricity. It simply isn’t reliable or manipulable. And it cannot produce electricity in anywhere near the volume needed.
But T.Boone will make a lot of money stringing investors along . . . that’s what he does.
— Sigh —- There are those who will NEVER hear the beat of the “different drummer” insisting that the status quo is the only way to go…. After all, the status quo has us where we are now… $$9+ Trillion in debt… and heading to $5 gas!! Carry on oh faithful lemings!!
And now, GMC, you are asking me to accept your suggestion that electric energy is somehow a pollutant??? As opposed to CLEAN energy?? Right….
oh excuse me, the electric medium that really isnt energy… [cough, cough]
Thats enough of electric energy for one day… There are other things also important…
“Liberals have become very dangerous indeed, and their agendas although they may not believe it will lead to our further decline and downfall.”
Check out this theft:
http://www.rr-bb.com/showpost.php?p=692833&postcount=8
This clown makes it waaaaayyyy too easy.
Once again, Chas, you can’t read. There IS no substantive, significant wind-generated electricity. Nor, I think, will there ever be, for the reasons noted above. The fact is, for the foreseeable future, the vast majority of the world’s electricity (and yes, it is the medium, not the source, despite your ignorance) will be generated by fossil fuels.
That’s just reality. Large-scale wind generated electrical power is pie-in-the-sky fantasy. It will supply marginal electricity, and in some limited areas, it may supply a significant amount. But in the great scheme of things, it will be minor.
Tell me Chas: Are you really this dense, or is this just a blog persona for grins and giggles?
I think RWNB is Monica Goodling’s man friend:
“My sense is that deep down they both know God is real, and that there is a judgement coming.”
http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?q=42968
RWNB is neither funny nor useful. He steals from other nuts to appear more nutty than them.
“that is of course it’s great downfall. It is subject to the randomness of the wind, unable to be ginned up when needed, unable to be stored for later use. Despite our rush to embrace it, wind will never be more than a marginal supplier of electricity. It simply isn’t reliable or manipulable.
And oil is of course VERY manipulable. WE are living with that.
Oil is reliable ONLY if we pursue the path of empire over the nations that have it.
Thanks no. I won’t die for GMC’s Hummer. I won’t expect my kid to either.
Gas is expensive because those who sell it CHOOSE to price it high.
We can choose to not buy into it and play along. We can choose to change.
It may hurt GMC’s stock porfolio. But personally I am ok with that.
BTW, Chas. More evidence that in a real sense electricity is the medium for energy transmission, rather than the energy itself. You concede (I guess) that mechanical force (energy) turns turbines which generate electricity. Do you also understand that an electric motor (i.e. your vacuum cleaner, etc.) is simply a generator in reverse, converting electrical energy back into mechanical force?
Energy in, energy out. Electricity is the transmitting force. Ah, the beauty of simple physics.
Coal fired generator needs:
COAL — and —- HUGE amounts of water diverted to be turned into steam… PLUS the diesel locolmotives to transport the coal to the power plant, and then move the empty train BACK to the coal fields, to get more coal… My goodness… The tremendous use of carbon fuels to make electricity….
Whereas with wind… NO water diversion… NO carbon based fuels burned, and spewed into the air… NO diesel fuel consumed to transport the coal…
Just CLEAN transmission of electricity from the Wind Farms, through the transmission lines, on to the grid… No by product either… you know, the coal slag?? Oh yea, that has to be hauled off, and dumped somewhere… and that requires more diesel to do that… not to mention a PLACE to dump all of that expended coal slag… Much of which never is used for anything other than FILLER….
Give me that CLEAN electricity any day!! Along with all of the jobs, and manufacturing, and engineering jobs, that goes with it!! And not to mention, not nearly so much government oversight to control the emissions used to MAKE the electricity from Wind… Yea, give me that CLEAN wind generated electricity any time!! Hard to believe that it has taken so long to get the idea through the heads of the ever so long mentally challenged!!
Before rural electrification, MANY rural areas, and farms were powered by wind mills… not to mention all of the wind powered flour mills, etc., for centuries…
Well, better late than never… upward and onward with CLEAN wind generated electricity, to lead us into the great unknown future that lies ahead!!
YOU are a fossil GMC. And I have met you.
What is your interest in holding America back….for you?
I’m no great fan of T Boone Pickens. But I think he is just a BIT more in tune with the future than a self serving and self aggrandizing parade float like you.
JR, weren’t you gonna be busy making my life miserable?
hehehehehehehehehe!!
You’re even more dense than Chas, of course. You, however, choose to live in ignorance and hate. Chas may be dense, unbelievebly arrogant, and stubborn, but I don’t sense any real hate in him (though he’s hardly the poster boy for goodness and light).
You, on the other hand, are the poster boy for misery and hate. So go pull the wings off flys. Pass on your hate of life to that son you ‘claim’ to love.
Here, you’re just a gnat. An annoyance, a pain, and frankly someone to pity, but of no real significance.
GMC —
“Tell me Chas: Are you really this dense, or is this just a blog persona for grins and giggles?”
Check out the web site for the AWEA… and see just how much electricity is already being produced by this country, and many others… Check out the FACTS and see just how much MW are being produced ALREADY… And then come back and tell me it has no future… I SIMPLY CHOOSE TO CALL YOUR LACK OF FUTURE SITE, IGNORANCE, AND HOPE SOMEDAY YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU ARE NOW MISSING….
http://www.awea.org (or maybe .com)
As I say, I have met “GMC”.
He’s well fed.
And on a government salary.
No doubt his investments color his posts here.
re: Wind turbines
I think what everyone is looking for is the end result of Faraday’s law, which is:
When an electro-magnetic field is generated by Faraday’s law of induction.
In generators a permanent magnet is moved relative to a conductor, then an electromotive force is created. If the wire is connected through an electrical load, current will flow, and thus electrical energy is generated, converting the mechanical energy of motion to electrical energy.
BTW, if you run a generator backwards it becomes a motor, a consumer of energy. :)
Turbine blades require ‘lift.’ As compressed air travels across the blade, speed and pressure eventually coincide with the wind coming over the top of the blade. Together, these two effects create the lift and keep the blades rotating around it’s axis.
The wind is actually deflected, but since the equal force requires a reaction, the angle of the attack must be in tangent at a precise angle in order for the blade to properly spin as it reacts to the force of the wind. (vectoring and all that)
Then, there’s all that gobbledee gook physics stuff that occurs with the generator (Maxwell-Faraday, Gauss, Lorenz, Ampere’s etc…….
Poling and phasing, feedback, polarity and other interesting stuff. :)
Chas –
I hope you’re right, and I’m wrong. But I doubt it. What you’ve described is wishfull thinking. But wishful thinking won’t power a single bulb, I’m afraid.
Some have blind faith in religion. Some have blind faith in people (the Obamabots – faith in an unproven, empty suit person at that). You have described blind faith in technology and progress.
Unfortunately, at some point blind faith runs headlong into the brick wall of physics – and crashes and dies. No amount of wishing will make it so.
But we shall see. The next 20-30 years will be interesting, to say the least. As I said, I hope you’re right . . . but I’ll not bet the farm on it.
Do I need to go get some of your “greatest splits” councilor?
Who cares Remil?
If that’s all you can do in life is to make disparaging remarks about other posters, then you’re a world class loser.
But hey, everyone already knew that.
Pretend this is a playground and you make one of your disparaging remarks. Some guy breaks your nose and you go running home to mommy.
Like I said, hiding behind a computer screen is the only attribute that saves you daily from a bloody nose.
Keep in mind, Chas, as you shill for Pickens. He’s in business to make money, not generate power. My suspicion is that he’s “speculating” on wind power to drive up the price of stocks he holds (or creates) and then cash them in. He’s been down that road before.
As to “stock portfolios” alluded to by JR, well, as usual, he hasn’t a clue.
Well the Eagle will never have any more meetups.
I think they are afraid some con would show and shoot up the place.
But I DID get to meet GMC.
He is chubby and plump and balding you know.
He looks sort of like “Cannon” if you remember that show.
JR, have you been drinking again as you type late at night?
“Greatest splits?” Ooooooh! Still the quivers in my poor knees!!!
Cripes – do I need to dare you for the 4th time, JR? Be my guest. Knock your self out. Go for it.
JR, you’re to be pitied, not taken seriously as a poster. Haven’t you got a wall to bang your head into?
Ya gonna hit me with your wrist cane there James McCluer?
BlueJay,
You are the one who says you don’t want to be nice to Conservatives and that you never want to meet up with us again.
You are the one who says all the threatening things you do to my father and I.
You are the one who thinks this is some war against people like “us” and “you”
If there was a reason to not have a meetup, it wouldn’t be because of anything us Conservatives have said, it would be because of you.
against = between
I remember Cannon, it was an enjoyable show.
William Conrad also did the first episodes of Gunsmoke, on radio. We used to get those are Armed Forces Radio. :)
er on Armed Forces Radio…
not are Armed Forces Radio…
Did ya get you some Rogaine and a diet there GMC?
For the record?
“GMC” does strongly resemble William Conrad.
And Nathan does not have a date.
Well Nathan? With a few rare exceptions, I just don’t know anyone that wants a meetup where cons are invited.
That may have something to do with your threatening to wave a gun around at a meetup.
It may have more to do with the fact that you cons are just not fun or comfortable to be around.
BlueJay,
There you are telling lies.
I have never threatened to wave my gun around at a meet up.
BTW, I am not a Pickens fan… I have been advocating wind energy for over 20 years… I finally see it happening… Same thing with hybrid cars… I remember my dad talking about that sort of thing 40+ years ago when I was just a kid… He used to think that cars should be run by electric motors, powered by gasoline generators… This was before JFK was killed even…
I think the old man was right…
I used to watch Cannon…. I liked the bull dog best… LOL
I only know what I read here Nathan.
What I read here says a meetup was destroyed by you threatening to bring a gun and wave it around to “make liberals wet their pants”.
Of course, what is read here is also your dad calling me a drug abuser and you calling me an addict to child porn.
Nathan? I don’t like you. I looked into your eyes and I did not like you. The same is true for your Dad. I met him and shook his hand.
But it was perfunctory and conventional.
As I am sure it was for you and your Dad.
Same old tired stories from Junior. Holding onto a grudge whether real or not makes him all the more pathetic.
BlueJay,
Nothing was ever said about me “waving a gun around.”
You are full of crap.
I never said any such thing. You are nothing more than a liar.
BlueJay, when did you look into my eyes and figure out that you didn’t like me?
Was it at the Lake Afton get together?
The time we were at the park in Wichita?
How about at the meetup at the Eagle?
Or was it when you came to our home for my going away get together?
I have never lied here Nathan. Not once. Not ever.
I don’t have much over you and your family. But I do have that.
The question is Junior, why you would want to have anything over anybody?
That’s just wrong headed and I might add you’re acting like an ignorant redneck.
It doesn’t give you any power, all it does is make you look stupid or at least more stupid if that is even possible.
BlueJay,
Saying that I was threatening to wave my gun around is a lie.
My father apologized to you for what he said and that issue was dropped. The only person who keeps bringing it up is you.
I have also apologized for my comments and have not made them since.
The only person hanging on to these things and bringing them up is you.
“How about at the meetup at the Eagle?
Or was it when you came to our home for my going away get together?”
You were not at the Eagle meetup Nathan.
The meetup for your going away was not at your home either.
It was at the run down clubhouse of a community of rich people. IT spoke volumes to me about how the wealthy treat community property.
I know that you and I are enemies Nathan. I know that you and your family make your living on that.
But even if I have less than you? I am better than you.
I KNOW who I am.
Good night.
BlueJay,
I was at the Eagle meetup. At least one of them. I even had dinner with Julie and her husband with my father before we went.
That was the first meetup, I believe. Perhaps you are talking about a later meet up.
You are still a liar for what you said. Go off to bed knowing that.
Yeah,it was the first meet up and Junior is lying about what was written as usual.
He lies a lot. He makes up stories about me all the time on this blog and we’ve never met.
That makes him a sad, pathetic liar and he knows he’s a liar.
You must mean the first Eagle meetup Nathan.
I did not attend.
I have never lied here. I have assumed, insulted, derided, etc etc.
But I have never lied. It is not in me.
Oh but we have met James.
I just didn’t introduce myself:)
BlueJay,
When you say that I threatened to wave my gun around that is a lie.
You are a liar. Period.
Last one as I work for a living and do have to sleep.
PROVE me a liar Nathan.
I was not about. A meetup was scheduled.
YOU Nathan, threatened to use your newly won concealed carry weapon. I think your quote was “to make the liberals wet their pants”?
I don’t lie Nathan. That is for you and yours.
I just take what is posted here and make the best sense of it.
And yeah tomorrow I will still wake up and you will be rich and I will be poor.
But I am better than you.
BlueJay,
You said:
“What I read here says a meetup was destroyed by you threatening to bring a gun and wave it around to “make liberals wet their pants”.”
Where did you read that I wrote I would wave my gun around?
I have never said any such thing. You are a liar.
“But I am better than you.”
THIS says it all about JR. This level of arrogance, spouted in the face of the usual hate and his self-admitted economic struggles, says it all.
You sure, lefties, you want this guy?
Oh, and yes, he’s a liar.
Arrogance?
That’s you GMC, not me.
I said I am a better person than Nathan. I have proven that here. He has proven that here.
Lets see here…
Both my father and I have in the past made some deragatory comments which were over the line. We have both apologized.
BlueJay you still continue to make comments about both of us. You refuse to accept our apologies and continue to dredge up comments made and apologized for.
Here you are, telling a lie about something I never said.
If you were the better man you would have accepted our apologies and moved on, not continue to keep bringing up those comments.
If you were the better man, you would admit you were wrong about what I said and explain why you felt the need to lie about what I said or why you were wrong.
Otherwise, you are just a liar becuase you continued to say that I said something I never did.
So lets see how much of a better man you are.
“If you were the better man, you would admit you were wrong about what I said …”
I confessed from the start that I did not “hear” what it was you said.
It is my understanding that you threatened to bring a gun to a meetup.
Guilty or no is for you to answer.
Hmmmmm
Looks like the self proclaimed “better man” has all the time in the world to keep posting here while never owning up to the lies he tells.
The better man, BlueJay is not.
BlueJay,
You said that I threatened to wave my gun around.
You have yet to admit you were wrong for saying that.
I’ve never lied here Nathan.
And you clearly have more time on your hands than I do.
A meetup was…..disrupted, for lack of a more informed word, by you joking about a gun.
Isn’t that essentially correct?
BlueJay,
You said:
“What I read here says a meetup was destroyed by you threatening to bring a gun and wave it around…”
Where did you read that I was threatening to bring a gun and wave it around?
It is a simple question. If you really read it like you claimed you did, you should be able to find it.
I know that I never said any such thing and yet you claim I did.
You are a liar.
Admit you were wrong.
BlueJay,
What is correct is that I made a joking comment and WS Clark blew it completely out of proportion and thus “ruined” a meet up.
I have since apologized for what I said and what happened.
I spent 3 days then trying to reason with WS Clark. WS Clark refused to be reasonable and thus went about ranting and thus the meet up didn’t go as well as hoped for.
WS Clark? You yourself have said you have never seen the man.
He has never come to a meet up that I know of. Yet he was partially responsible for helping ruin one that he blamed me for not going to.
I still think it was really all a rather conveinent excuse for him to say he was going to come and then not because of me.
Perhaps you would care to tell your version of the story Nathan?
BlueJay,
I have told my side of the story several times to you already. You have never cared about my side of the story. You simply use it as one of your little sound bites to attack me.
Now, you keep avoiding the point here and that is you lied.
You said I was threatening to wave my gun around.
NO WHERE have I ever threatened to wave my gun around.
Now, are you going to be that better man you keep claiming to be and admit you were wrong?
BlueJay,
It is really simple. I will even give you an example of what you could say if you are having trouble getting started:
Nathan,
I was wrong. You have never threatened to wave your gun around at a public meeting like I said you did. I will not make such accusations in the future. I apologize.
Sincerely,
BlueJay
BlueJay,
Here we are and post after post I keep pointing out your lie and you keep ignoring it.
The better man, you are not.
BlueJay won’t be back for a while. He is down at the sewage plant taking a “bird bath.”
BlueJay,
Where did you go? I see you still posting in other threads.
Don’t you want to clear up your good name here?
It isn’t that hard to admit you are wrong. I just did it twice the other day. It happens. Why is it so hard for you to do so?
If this is as close as I ever get to being caught in a lie?
Nathan, you said you would take a gun to a meetup to make liberals “wet their pants”.
Obviously, several people had a problem with this.
It isn’t a lie to speculate on what you might do with your gun at a meetup to make grown adults wet their pants.
This is the best you got against some of the WAY over the line stuff you and your family have said about me and mine?
I nominate myself for Sainthood.
BlueJay,
You didn’t speculate. You said that you read where I had said I would wave my gun around.
That is a lie.
Twist it however you want to, it was a lie.
And instead of being that “better man” you claim to be, you make an excuse for what you said and try to twist your way out of it.
Fine Nathan.
Next time I’ll ask you just what it was you planned to do with your gun at a blogger meetup that would make people wet their pants.
BlueJay,
This was my exact quote:
“Of course I will do my best to come. By then I should have my Concealed carry permit too.
Just want you liberal anti-gun people to wet your pants :)”
That was it, that was what caused WS Clark to go on a 3 day rant of how I was threatening him.
Keep in mind this was what Julie said RIGHT AFTER me:
“Nathan,
It’s just gotta be a bigger gun than Mike’s :)”
Obviously she got that it was a joke.
And here we are, over a year later and you and WS Clark have talked about it so much you are claiming that I threatened to wave my gun around.
What an immature little liar you are. You sit here trying to claim to be the better man and you can’t even own up to a mistake/lie you made and simply apologize.
And the “discussion” continued as follows. I could post it all. I am so sick and tired of this being a topic of conversation! It is so stupid! You know who suffered? It was Julie! She worked so hard and she didn’t deserve this mess. Nobody did actually. But it is over! Do I need to post the entire two days? I can go get it all. Once on the net, always on the net.
————–
WSClark said:
“Just want you liberal anti-gun people to wet your pants :)”
A very good reason not to attend a meet. I could hardly think of a better reason not to go than Nathan was going to be there with a gun.
—–
Nathan said:
Good WS Clark,
Don’t show up. I suppose I could gloat about running you off like you do here towards others.
—–
Julie said:
It would be nice if everyone could attend. I am sincere in my invitation to one and all to attend if they can. I want that afternoon to be full of fun and friendship (or at least courtesy).
—–
Nathan said:
I agree Julie.
However, if you are going to be controlled by your irrational fear of guns, then be fair warned.
—–
WSClark said:
Post where I have gloated about running anyone off. I have defended others on this forum, but I have never run anyone off. I have warned people not to attack several posters here, but that is just a normal response.
But if you want to gloat because you have a gun and therefore I will not being attending a meet – well go for it.
It say a lot more about you than it does about me.
Trying to intimidate people because you have a gun is normally considered criminal behavior.
Childish as well.
—–
Nathan said:
WS Clark,
I think I stated clearly why I said what I did:
“I just want you antigun liberal people to wet your pants.
No big secret, I was pretty clear.
I think you are confused.
I am not carrying the gun to intimidate anyone.
I am saying that I will be to intimidate only those I know here who are irrationally afraid of them. Or in your case irrationally afraid of me carrying one.
Don’t worry WS Clark, I am not going to waste my precious time and reputation by doing anything to someone like you.
—-
lindainks55 said:
Julie,
I want to pay my part of any cost of reserving the shelter.
I also won’t plan to attend. I will never be in the company of a person with an “I have a gun attitude,” if I can help it. Since it’s already been announced I can help it.
—-
Nathan said:
Well,
Since I seemed to have caused the typical bed wetting I had anticipated…
I figure I will let you all know now:
I will be carrying concealed in the city of Wichita almost everywhere I am allowed to.
I do frequent the Walmart on East and West Kellogg, so don’t go there anymore.
I love to go to the Warren for the usual Friday or Saturday night movie. Most likely I will be going to the one on the West side and sometimes old town. So don’t go there anymore either.
I drive on Kellogg usually every day. So if you are worried about being on the same road as me, I would stay off of Kellogg.
If you attended any of the other blog meet ups, well, I had already brought my pistol to those so I hope you are counting your blessings for making it out alive.
I will compile a larger and more comprehensive list of the locations you should probably avoid for the future.
Linda,
The point was that I never said I was going to be waving my gun around like BlueJay claimed.
What is your point?
Also, you helped to contribute to the mess by saying you were not going to go.
Did you get all upset when Julie said that I had better make sure that my gun was bigger than Mike’s?
Was Julie having a “I have a gun attitude” by flaunting the size of her husbads gun?
Of course not. Because the issue was never about what I said, it was that you could make it into something about what I said.
Congratulations, both you and WS Clark did just that.
Thanks the info linda.
What a stupid and deliberately provocative thing to say there Nathan.
And there is Julie trying to defuse it and you go right on.
You don’t have to worry about doing that again.
I doubt the Eagle will ever have another meet up.
Certainly, I have no desire to see any of the cons again. I know several who feel the same.
Can we finally drop it now? It was a most uncomfortable time and doesn’t deserve being relived!
BlueJay,
I have apologized countless times for the comment since then to everyone from Julie to WS Clark.
Eitehr way, you are still a liar for what you said.
Go ahead and read all 2 pages of it, you will not see where I ever said I was going to be waving my gun around.
You are a liar.
Linda,
Then why are you in here stirring it up?
Oh and Linda?
If you want the issue dropped, talk to you lil’ buddy BlueJay.
He is the one who keeps bringing it up over and over and over again.
I think your post is so awesome. Great work – keep it up!!
Wait a minute?
Where is that self proclaimed better man?
No sign of him here.
Nope, still no BlueJay to admit he was wrong and be the better man he claims to be.
No I had other things going on at 11:58 this morning Nathan.
I’ve got better things to do now.
Obviously, you do not.
I’m a single Dad. What is your excuse for this as Friday evening entertainment?
The way you stalk people around morning night and noon I am starting to think Monkeyhawk is right about you.
WELL since no one even knows what this is about anymore, let’s catch folks up.
About three of four days ago, I opined that Nathan had threatened to bring a gun to a meetup and wave it around.
This turns out to be not entirely correct. Nathan DID say (as shown above) that he would bring a gun to a meetup and “make liberals wet their pants.”
As one can read, if anyone cares, Nathan did not specify what he would DO with the gun to accomplish that. Even waving his gun around, I for one wouldn’t wet MY pants. He’d probably have to shoot at my feet or threaten my kid to get that done.
THIS is my “lie” for which Nathan has now followed me around for three or four days on at least 2 threads involving more than a dozen posts.
It pales in comparison to lies that Nathan and his family have posted as to me. Of course, the beauty of THEIR lies is that in bringing them back from the past to confront them, I only give them further air.
Plenty of people who I respect far more than Nathan are already aware of them. So, I don’t need to cut myself with Nathan’s rusty knife.
Now in some cases, Nathan told these lies, apologized…
and then told them again.
But if it will allow Nathan to move forward with his life?
I was wrong. Nathan did NOT, in fact, post that he would wave a gun around at a meetup.
He just said that he would bring a firearm to a social event and make people he disagrees with wet their pants.
BlueJay,
You were doing alright till your last sentence.
This is exactly what I said:
“Of course I will do my best to come. By then I should have my Concealed carry permit too.
Just want you liberal anti-gun people to wet your pants :)”
Once again, you play with the words to make it something I never said.
I NEVER said that I would “make” anyone wet their pants.
Why you feel the need to keep twisting my words is beyond me.
There’s no gymnastics or twisting required here Nathan.
I can very well see why you intimidated people away from the meeetup.
Here let me show you.
“Of course I will do my best to come. ”
Followed by…
“By then I should have my Concealed carry permit too. ”
Reads to just about anyone as “I will be able to bring my gun too. All the more reason I would come.”
And finally…
“Just want you liberal anti-gun people to wet your pants :)”
You’ve been invited or have invited yourself (this is not clear) to a social event.
You may or may not come. Your next effort is to at least insult and at most threaten other people who would have attended?
Socialization clearly aint your strong suit.
For the record? IF I had been posting at that time, I probably would have tried to help you get Clark to back off.
But that was another time when you had not said the things about me that you have since.