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An interesting movie for all you ‘greenies’ out there that think that doing nothing is worse than doing something about global warming.
http://noteviljustwrong.com/
Another sunspot study points to oncoming global cooling
A recent press release from the Space and Science Research Center, which states that global warming has ended and a new cold era has begun. Mr. John Casey, who is the director of the Space and Science Research center made this declaration at a press conference in Florida a week ago. The press release is basically an update of what was released about the theory back in January of 2008.
I have never heard of the Space and Science Research Center until now, but according to their press release, the world’s climate warming of the past decades has come to an end based on the ‘Relational Cycle Theory’ or RC theory.
According to their website, Mr. Casey’s original research on his RC theory was peer reviewed. There is a link to a more detailed research doc. report of this theory at the bottom of the research link. It is the first link and has graphs.
In developing this theory, Mr. Casey studied sunspot cycles from 1610 to present. He determined that there exists a family of solar activity cycles that has a direct influence on the earth’s climate and found that the cycles correlated strongly to all past major temperature lows. There was a 90-100 year cycle and a 206 year cycle. He estimates that the peak of the current 206-year cycle was between 1986-1987 with a peak range from 1962-2010. According to this theory………….
–The earth will experience a significant temperature decline beginning between 3-14 years and lasting 2 or 3 solar cycles.
–Global temperature reductions of at least 1 to 1.5 celsius.
–The new climate will produce dangerously cold weather that will result in worldwide, agricultural, social and economic disruption.
Source:
http://www.spaceandscience.net/id16.html
http://www.spaceandscience.net/id64.html
…………………more of the usual anti-science rhetoric from old man price.
Has anyone ever wondered WHY he posts this crap?
This guy actually thinks that the Earth is 8000 years old, give or take an ice age. How can anyone who beleives that nonsense ever be taken seriously?
I’m out of here until next week, heading to Chicago to attend another of those “subversive” teachers conventions.
Someone keep the reichwing and the “christian” Taliban in their place while I’m gone.
Good morning Apophis!
Have a safe and productive trip to Chicago!
As an educational leader in the community we always look forward to your civil and intelligent contributions to the WEBlog!
Wish I was going with you, haven’t seen the U-505 at the Museum of Science and Industry since they moved it.
(I was just kidding about the “. . .give or take an ice age.”)
http://www.msichicago.org/online-science/videos/video-detail/activities/moving-the-u-505-submarine/
The solar influence is becoming more and more apparent as the solar minimum continues and global temperatures fall. Hard questions need to be asked about the cost/benefit of the CO2 reduction goals that are touted but as far as I can tell cannot be accomplished without severe cutbacks and changes in lifestyle. And all without the cooperation of the number one CO2 producing nation (China)
From the UK Telegraph:
“The orthodox global-warming thesis, accepted by pretty well every politician in the Western world, but not by a growing number of scientists, is that, as CO2 levels in the atmosphere continue to rise, so too should global temperatures. Unless we can drastically reduce those CO2 levels, the world is thus threatened with catastrophe.
In the past year or two, however, evidence has been piling up to suggest that there may be a fundamental flaw in this theory. Even though atmospheric CO2 has continued to rise to levels not seen since the distant geological past, temperatures have not been following suit.
After 2000 the global temperature curve flattened out at a level significantly lower than the freak year 1998, and in recent months temperatures have dropped to levels not seen since the early 1980s.
Despite the best efforts of the global-warming lobby to keep the scare going, the northern hemisphere enjoyed its coldest winter for decades, and this summer has shown the curve sinking even lower.
Even the warmists are having to find excuses for the fact that their theory doesn’t exactly seem to be holding up, conceding that the next 10 years may see a period of global cooling, before the “underlying warming trend” returns worse than ever.
Other scientists point out that, rather than look to CO2 for an explanation of global temperatures, a much more convincing link can be seen in the activity of the sun, with current sunspot levels having dramatically fallen to levels associated with historic periods of global cooling recorded in the past.
Yet just when such huge question marks are being raised over the “CO2 equals warming” theory, our politicians have swallowed it whole, as an act of blind faith – using it to justify such massive costs to our economy that our whole way of life seems destined to change significantly for the worse.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/07/10/do1004.xml
Or is the main climate driver actually the earth’s recurring gravitational cycles?
“New Research Indicates Climate Similar to the 1800s Within the Next 15 Years: First Stage of Global Cooling Will Begin During 2008-2009
New research findings released in the peer reviewed book “Global Warming — Global Cooling, Natural Cause Found,” links seven different types of recurring gravitational cycles as the cause for all 2200 global warming events during the past half million years, including the earth’s current warming cycle. It also links the cycles to a natural 50 percent increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide during the 10,000 year period leading up to the peak of all recurring 116,000 year mega global warming cycles. Meteorologist and climate researcher David Dilley of Global Weather Oscillations http://www.globalweathercycles.com, says the gravitational cycles act like a magnet by pulling the atmosphere’s high pressure systems northward or southward by as much as 3 or 4 degrees of latitude from their normal seasonal positions. As the current gravitational cycle declines, global temperatures will begin cooling during 2008-09 with dramatic global cooling by 2023.
Ocala, FL (PRWEB) July 8, 2008 – New findings released in the peer reviewed book “Global Warming — Global Cooling, Natural Cause Found”, meteorologist and climate researcher David Dilley utilizes nearly a half million years of data linking long term gravitational cycles of the moon as the cause for the present global warming, rises in carbon dioxide levels, and for 2200 global warming cycles during the past half million years…”
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2008/7/prweb1081014.htm
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) — A deadline should be set for the withdrawal of U.S. and allied forces from Iraq, and the pullout could be done by 2011, an Iraqi government spokesman said Tuesday.
Ali al-Dabbagh, an Iraqi government spokesman, says a U.S. troop withdrawal in three to five years is possible.
Ali al-Dabbagh said any timetable would depend on “conditions and the circumstances that the country would be undergoing.” But he said a pullout within “three, four or five” years was possible.
“It can be 2011 or 2012,” al-Dabbagh said. “We don’t have a specific date in mind, but we need to agree on the principle of setting a deadline.”
Al-Dabbagh’s comments come as the United States and Iraq try to negotiate a framework governing the stationing of U.S. and allied troops beyond the end of 2008, when the current U.N. mandate for coalition forces expires.
Al-Dabbagh said any such deal should include a withdrawal deadline. A day earlier, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki also said he favored a short-term accord that would spell out a withdrawal schedule for U.S. troops.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/08/us.iraq/index.html
U.S. troops in Iraq are facing new rocket-propelled bombs used by suspected Shiite militiamen, adding to the array of weapons used against the American military there, The Washington Post reported Thursday.
The powerful bombs have killed at least 21 people this year, including at least three U.S. soldiers, The Post reported.
Military officials call the rocket-propelled devices Improvised Rocket Assisted Munitions. IRAMs use 6.7-inch rockets to launch propane tanks packed with explosives and are often fired by remote control from the backs of trucks.
IRAM attacks have the potential to kill more soldiers at once than roadside bombs or conventional mortar or rocket attacks, The Post reported. Most rocket-propelled attacks have occurred in Baghdad.
The latest reported IRAM attack occurred Tuesday at a base in northeastern Baghdad used by U.S. and Iraqi soldiers.
The devices show insurgents’ continued ability to use commonly available materials and low-tech weapons to get around U.S. security measures that have cost the military billions of dollars.
“IRAM attacks could be very tragic against us,” Col. William B. Hickman, commander of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team of the 101st Airborne division, which operates in northwestern Baghdad, told The Washington Post. “We take them very seriously.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379349,00.html
Kennedy back in Senate to approve Medicare bill
The vote, coming on what Democrats had cast as a key election year test, sets the stage for a showdown with President Bush, who has promised to veto the bill. But Senate leaders, buoyed by their victory, sounded confident. The bill has already passed the House by a veto-proof 355-59 vote.
“Let the president veto it,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.). “We got overwhelming support in the House and more than enough votes to override a veto today.”
In an added element of drama, the only senator to miss the vote was Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), his party’s presumed presidential nominee, who was campaigning in Ohio. McCain would have faced the choice of voting against the interests of seniors and active and retired military personnel, whose healthcare system is linked to Medicare, or voting against party elders at a time when he needs their support.
http://tinyurl.com/569rs7
Brought over from an older thread.
cosmos,
I know this is elementary but it still appeals to me. NOT, because it’s elementary and simple enough for me to understand (ha), but because it focuses on the positive and is not ‘chicken little’, in approach, as so many AGW fanatics are. And, it doesn’t waste time with punitive solutions like trading ‘carbon credits’, which is just scheme to tax.
Take a look at this an let me know what you think.
Granted it deals more with energy relocation than merely limiting use, (we will need more energy not less) but it makes sense from a reduction in carbon release as well as wind is substituting in for Nat. Gas for power production and Nat. Gas for petroleum in vehicles.
Link: http://www.pickensplan.com/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jwywMP4Sxgo
Creationist Junk Debunked #1 – Introduction
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xO7IT81h200&feature=related
11 — Creation ‘Science’ Made Easy
The FISA Bill was passed by our Senate yesterday. Nary a word of it on Kansas.com. Way to lok out for the peoples best interest Eagle. The Fourth Ammendment was pissed on yesterday, and it appears that you could care less.
My thoughts exactly, Objectivist. Carte blanche was granted to Bushco to spy on whomever his evilness deems “suspect” and NO ONE will be held accountable. This is only the beginning, just wait. The Eagle is just one more tool to spread ignorance and stifle awakening.
“The Fourth Ammendment was pissed on yesterday, and it appears that you could care less.”
How’s that?
There were changes, wsc. I’m still researching but this bill was an update, not a reauthorization of the original FISA bill. There are now times a warrant isn’t required to spy on both foreigners and Americans.
Here is one article with a bit of info. I found the comments by readers interesting. I’m sad, disappointed and angry. And, I’m still trying to get to the bottom of this. Guess I better read the bill itself.
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=40425&dcn=todaysnews
“How’s that?”
Huh?
“Legalizing” warrantless eavesdropping isn’t hacking at the 4th?
Read your Constitution.
But the best thing is that this Government is COMPLETELY UNConstitutional so any “law” they pass is null and void. No law that is against the Constitution is a law at all. This goes for the Federal Reserve first and foremost.
So many traitor’s, so little time.
I would like to believe the statement quoted below, but the past 7 1/2 years have made me so suspect I’ve lost my ability to trust. I do understand there is a difference in being elected and governing, I want to think Senator Obama is a better kind of man, a better kind of politician… I wish he would do and say the same things!
“The FISA courts are assured a major role, new protections are added for Americans overseas and the surveillance authorization is scheduled to be phased out in December 2012, assuring the next president a chance to review the issue.
Obama, who hopes to have that chance, grinned on the floor when this point was made in the course of debate by Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-W. Va.). But given the divisions among Democrats, the future nominee must navigate these waters carefully.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11627.html
“I’m still researching but this bill was an update, not a reauthorization of the original FISA bill.”
That is correct, it is a new FISA bill, but there are some additional protections for Americans and some additional requirements for the government.
The point that follows (from your link)provides for oversight:
“The administration would have to submit its surveillance procedures to the secret FISA court for approval before surveillance could begin, except under exigent circumstances.”
It is also worthwhile to note that, while criminal liability for telecoms is off the table for past actions, civil liabilities still remain. As I mentioned, criminal prosecution of the telecoms would have been virtually impossible.
The bill also does not provide legal cover for the Bush Administration.
Another important point, again from your link, is as follows:
“The bill includes language making FISA the exclusive means under which the administration can conduct surveillance.”
““Legalizing” warrantless eavesdropping isn’t hacking at the 4th?”
The bill does not legalize warrantless wiretapping, if fact, it does exactly the opposite.
“But given the divisions among Democrats, the future nominee must navigate these waters carefully.”
Granted, this is a hot-button issue, but only due to overheated rhetoric and grave misunderstandings of the bill. When you get down to it, the major issue was criminal immunity for telecoms. I do not like that fact, but a bill was needed and Bush would have vetoed any bill that did not provide immunity. As you can tell by the vote totals, there was not enough votes to override a presidential veto.
And as I mentioned yesterday, there is not chance that a conviction could be secured – the administration would just claim “National Security” and that would be the end of that.
Actually, Clark,
I just heard on NPR that the Senate vote was 69 for, 30 against. A veto-proof margin.
The one voter notably absent? John Sidney McCain, the Third (Bush administration).
Does anyone have a link to the exact wording of the bill. Being lazy, but swamped in a project…
Steven, I think those were the vote totals for the Medicare bill. The one that rolls back increases (again!). The one Senator Kennedy returned to the floor in order to cast his vote. Someday (SOON!!) when we have a president and a congress who can address affordable health care for all Americans of every age we can stop this nonsense and get meaningful legislation.
The one thing that does not seem to get much airplay regarding the immunity of the telecoms story is that AT&T were huge financial supporters of Bush/Cheney in 2000 and 2004. Political paybacks, anyone?
“I just heard on NPR that the Senate vote was 69 for, 30 against. A veto-proof margin.”
That was the vote for the bill. The vote to strip the immunity provision was 66-32 against.
“In a 66-32 vote, senators defeated an amendment by Sens. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., and Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., that would have stripped the immunity provision from the bill. It needed 50 votes to pass.”
You’re correct Linda, I screwed up – had a mental double exposure, as it were. It was the bill that restored the Medicare cuts to doctors which was leading to many of them saying they could not take new Medicare patients. I need more coffee!
And that was the bill, that John McCain did not vote on.
“And that was the bill, that John McCain did not vote on.”
McCain did not vote on the FISA bill either, it was his nap time.
president and a congress who can address affordable health care for all Americans
Do you not understand that by the constitution we are a loose Federation of States. The founding fathers drafted the constitution in order to have a very weak central government and very strong State governments.
Can anyone point out where it is constitutional to have nationalized health care? If you have health care and or insurance concerns why aren’t you directing them at the state level?
Does a bureaucrat from Wyoming have a better understanding of what Kansans need or would a State Senator have a better understanding?
Linda AND Clark – I messed up. See above.
Sol, we already have what you are arguing against. I’m for making sensible changes. I do understand your point.
SECRET FISA courts.
Secrecy in our form of Government is repugnant.
Thank god for WSC to set me straight…groan.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-6304
Full text of the bill that passed the house in June and the Senate yesterday. Boy, I hate reading these things!
Just some dilrod’s opinion…
“Does a bureaucrat from Wyoming have a better understanding of what Kansans need or would a State Senator have a better understanding?”
——
Sol, my apologies firt because I know what you’re asking and why but honestly! I’ve seen NO indication than either of the Senators from Kansas have a clue about much of anything!
The bureaucrats in Wyoming are no less or more than those in Kansas.
And, sorry about all the typos in that post of 10:23, I was laughing about Kansas Senators being good for anything…
Linda,
I wasn’t referring to the Federal Senate, but your State Senate.
The Rev-er-rund Jack-son body slams Obama with a live mic feed
Rev. Jesse Jackson apologized Wednesday for saying Barack Obama is “talking down to black people” during what Jackson thought was a private conversation before a FOX News interview Sunday.
Jackson was speaking to a fellow guest at the time about Obama’s speeches in black churches and his support for faith-based charities. Jackson added before going live, “I want to cut his nuts off.”
His microphone picked up the remarks.
=====================================
I’m guessing that Jackson wants to give Obama a new nick name, “Squeaky.”
Yeah, me too, Sol. We have bigger idiots at the state level than at the federal!
I have a new found disrespect for Barack Obama and SOME of his more…..lemming like supporters.
What will the great undiscovered candydate do next? HOW will his supporters spin and twist to justify it?
Barry and his supporters better figure out which way is which. Otherwise? Anything goes…
Well, there is still the convention. And there are good viable third party candidates too…
Does anyone have a link to the exact wording of the bill. Being lazy, but swamped in a project…
Oh boy do I sympathize with that, brother! I hardly have time for this crap.
I will have a great deal to say later, but for the time being, here’s the full bill (and lookout: it’s huge, suitable for skimming and wrapping fish:
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM104_080619_fisapromise.htm
I’d suggest text-searching for “certification” for starters as that’s what the bill largely substitutes for independent judicial oversight. You might look up “minimization” if you want a good laugh (the bill supports minimization procedures, but doesn’t give any!). It also gratuitously (and repeatedly) states that the bill has to comply with the Fourth Amendment (in terms that literal–boy that’s a relief!–thinks of all the other laws that don’t have to be constitutional, since they don’t give explicit lip service! /sarcasmOFF).
Of course, having been a civil libertarian for 20+ years, and having read the bill alongside various legal analyses, that still doesn’t necessarily mean that I know what the hell I’m talking about.
But I would advise similar if not greater skepticism of those who dismiss such criticisms with the sweep of a hand.
OK, in which state is health care most and least expensive:
Texas
Kansas
Michigan
Ohio
Mississippi.
Point being, each state has different needs. COLA is just one factor in the cost of health care. How is the Federal Government going to handle that?
“Bush would have vetoed any bill that did not provide immunity.”
Uh huh. Ok.
So now Congress, or rather some of it, operates on the premise of being acceptable to george w bush?
Well gee, no wonder their approval is at 9%.
If more people understood the legislative process, and how things move through Congress, instead of listening to the news hounds, that approval rating would be significntly higher…
BlueJay,
I’m not a lemming, and I really don’t think anyone else is either. In my case I actually thought (HOPED!) for a new kind of candidate, one that could actually restore some semblance of trust in an elected official. So, I’m sorely disappointed.
BUT!
There are important considerations! Not the least of which is there could be as many as THREE Supreme Court nominations by the next president.
The war in Iraq — even tho Obama is being careful in what he says (and he must as Republicans are quick to accuse him of being weak on foreign policy experience and national defense issues) he will end this foreign occupation. McCain won’t! Remember bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? That wasn’t just another example of his stupid inappropriate sense of humor.
Our economy — McCain will continue all the economic policies that are best for the haves and the have mores.
Don’t think for a minute anything good will come from a McCain presidency. Been disappointed with bush? Get ready for more of the same if McCain isn’t defeated!
Oh, I know all about the vote in Kansas not counting. And if we give up, decide our vote isn’t valuable we have NO CHANCE that will ever change!
So, I won’t get to be enthusiastic about casting my vote, but I will cast it for the Democratic nominee because that is best for me, you and my country!
FISA Bill
CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME 5 COURT.
—The Government or an electronic communication service provider receiving a directive issued pursuant to paragraph (1) may file a petition for a writ of certiorari for review of a decision of the Court of Review issued under sub10 paragraph (A). The record for such review shall be transmitted under seal to the Supreme Court of the United States, which shall have jurisdiction to review such decision.
(chortles)
Well, Sol, federal funding and state administration seems one option. It’s been done, huh?
I’m too ill informed to discuss and will bow out hoping someone teaches me things I should know.
I do think Americans deserve better than paying the most for the least which is what our current health care provides. Compare our country to others and we aren’t a shining example on the health care issue.
Jay—
You might keep in mind it was pissed Obama supporters, using his own website, that got the tabloid media to take notice of the FISA issue.
Now you know I didn’t mean you linda.
You have your eyes wide open. Stay that way and stay sharp.
You can stick with Obama. Just don’t get STUCK with him before you have to. Because you don’t have to.
FISA Bill
CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME 5 COURT.
We’ll be there, Ace.
(chortles)
Noted Rage.
I just wish a lot more folk like that had got skeptical and inquiring a bit earlier. Maybe they could have gotten pissed off BEFORE they got pissed on.
The FISA bill might be a surprise blessing down the line… How about all of the Right Wing communications flying to the Middle East, by those who want to do everything they know how to do, in order to “create” their own version of Armageddon?? How many “enemy” people have they contacted, about pushing a decision to War with Iran, or other Middle East nations?? It could happen??
It could happen??
And monkeys might fly out of my butt.
Sol, are you really so ignorant of the capabilities and contacts of the RR, when it comes to their obsessive interest in forcing Armageddon??
Sometimes Jay this old grandma wants to ruffle your hair (maybe even including a knuckle rap to the top of your head!)! That same head of hair any young woman would want to run her fingers through. Readers, he says he always needs a haircut but truthfully he could pose for the cover of romance novels!
We’re gonna need to tread really carefully. The Republicans are experts at smear. Let’s not help them. But, let’s always question, always push for accountability and transparency. That’s some of the best traits of our party. I know we don’t agree easily, but boy when we get something hashed out we’ve covered all the possibilities! That’s the way it should be.
AMEN, Linda!!
And monkeys might fly out of my butt.
Heh, actually, Sol, Chas has a good point. A few years back the Greek government had their own massive surveillance program goin’ on, only to discover that, by integrating themselves so thoroughly into the network traffic, they enabled some wily hackers to spy on them.
The relevance was obvious (and ominous) to some noted security experts when the Protect America Act was up for authorization, which doesn’t differ in any relevant way to the bill that just passed:
http://www.crypto.com/papers/paa-ieee.pdf
OBAMA’S REGRETS:
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/07/10/boggsed.html
Obama’s frequent regrets may make us sorry
By Luke Boggs
For the Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/10/08
So what jumped out at me was how quickly Obama regretted his decision. And that, in turn, made me wonder how often the senator has regretted other choices. Answer: pretty often.
(Googling “Obama” and “regrets” yields more than a million hits.)
In November 2006, Obama said he regretted buying property adjacent to his Chicago home from Tony Rezko, a longtime supporter and big-time fund-raiser who has since been convicted of mail and wire fraud, aiding and abetting bribery and money laundering.
In February 2007, as his presidential campaign was beginning, Obama said he regretted saying that the lives of American soldiers who died fighting in Iraq had been “wasted.”
In April 2008, Obama said he regretted his choice of words when he told some well-heeled donors in San Francisco that “bitter” folks in Middle America who have lost economic hope “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them.”
To be sure, these are choices worth regretting. Anyone can understand why Obama would regret his land deal with a convicted felon. And even liberal Democrats like Obama have been careful not to say American lives have been “wasted” in Iraq, even as they imply the same thing when they dismiss the war effort as corrupt, inept, unnecessary and worse.
Obama’s most costly regret, however, may well prove to be his condescending shot at those decent, hardworking Americans he said were desperately clinging to God and guns and bigotry. It was a regret-worthy statement that said volumes about Obama’s easy contempt for those in what elites call “flyover country.”
always push for accountability and transparency.
____________________________________________
SECRET FISA courts.
Secrecy in our form of Government is repugnant.
SAY EAGLE, WE NEED A SPECIAL TOPIC JUST FOR THE REV JESSE JACKSON !!!
Rev. Jesse Jackson apologized Wednesday for saying Barack Obama is “talking down to black people” during what Jackson thought was a private conversation before a FOX News interview Sunday.
Jackson was speaking to a fellow guest at the time about Obama’s speeches in black churches and his support for faith-based charities. Jackson added before going live, “I want to cut his nuts off.”
His microphone picked up the remarks.
VIDEO: Click here to watch Jesse Jackson’s comments
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/09/jesse-jackson-apologizes-for-obama-remarks/
“I want to cut his nuts off.”
Sounds like something a phony preacher would say.
MORE MISSILES FIRED!
What Will Obama Do?
Talk to em.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379324,00.html
TEHRAN, Iran — Iran test-fired more long-range missiles overnight in a second round of exercises meant to show that the country can defend itself against any attack by the U.S. or Israel, Iranian state television reported Thursday.
The weapons have “special capabilities” and included missiles launched from naval ships in the Persian Gulf, along with torpedoes and surface-to-surface missiles, the broadcast said. It did not elaborate.
Wasn’t there a senator or governor that recently got busted for hiring a call girl? Didn’t we later find out that his bank records were revealed through provisions of the Patriot Act?
We have never stopped spying on ourselves. Watergate anyone? The Patriot Act just makes it legal. If you think for one second that some conspiracy to start Armageddon in the Middle East will be outed because of the Patriot Act, you have far underestimated just how black and covert our government is.
Well…
I gotta choke back a blush on the way out.
That’s real sweet of ya linda. The knuckle rapping part too.
You won’t have to look too far to find me fighting the right wing smear machine. You don’t need to worry about me joining it.
Just stay alert and informed. And don’t let anyone, even yourself, put you in a corner.
“…desperately clinging to God and guns and bigotry.”
All anybody has to do is read this Blog to find out the truth of that statement!! LOL
Obama was, once again, right on target!!
Rove defies supoena in Spiegleman hearing!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_go_co/rove_subpoena_2
MORE MISSILES FIRED!
What Will Obama Do?
Talk to em.
Why should he or any American do anything? This is the Iranian’s business.
What would McCain do? Nuke ‘em? Now there is a plan for you !!! (/sarcasim)
Watch the video and see how Jesse Jackson swings his arm in a HACKING movement when he says he wants to do this to Obama:
“I want to cut his nuts off.”
They are “black and covert” enough to use the loony tunes of the RR to do their dirty work for them, and then point the finger of responsibility at the RR leaders (if they get caught)…
We have never stopped spying on ourselves. Watergate anyone?
In the short term, of course, it is very much the government spying on the rest of us. But keep in mind that it was Nixon’s own taping system that screwed him.
What did bush do when N.K. fired their long range missles? Talk to em, refuse to talk to em?
“Why should he or any American do anything? This is the Iranian’s business.” [Sol]
So, I AGREE with you on that!!
Let’s just take a nap and do nothing before Pearl Harbor.
“Secrecy in our form of Government is repugnant.”
Duh, advertising that Tom Terrorist is being wiretapped kind of defeats the purpose of wiretapping, now doesn’t it.
Like it or not, there are elements of government that have to be secret – do you think that CIA agents should publish their daily itineraries?
The Cheney administration has been been trying to gin up an Iran war for about a year. This missile crap is in response to the latest operations in the theater.
Yup, Iran’s business waging war in the Persian Gulf.
Closing down the 6 mile wide sea lanes in the Straights of Hormuz is no big deal.
Only 40% of the world’s oil flows thru there.
Y’all love $4/gal gas, so $25/gal gas will be that much better for ya.
Less Global Warming, afterall.
TIP: Gather firewood for this winter.
They are “black and covert” enough to use the loony tunes of the RR to do their dirty work for them,
If you think that only the right plays dirty and black, you are severly blind chas.
Yeah, it’s all Bush/Cheney’s fault.
You surprise me Mr. Clark. You are starting to sound like Cheney. Screw the constitution if it means we get to do what we want. What other civil liberties are you willing to sacrifice?
If you sacrifice liberty for security, you will have neither.
Yup, Iran’s business waging war in the Persian Gulf.
Link please. We seem to corner the market in that aspect. Should we nuke ourselves?
Again, what would McCain do? Nuke Iran?
Max, still waiting on McCain’s ideas for “six party” talks for Iran. Kinda like the “six party” talks after North Korea launched.
But then, I am waiting for those ideas from Obama as well, goose and gander you know.
Sol — Right now, its the “Right” that is in control… When was the last time you saw a Left/Liberal get in a mental orgasm over the prospects of Armageddon?? Hmmm???
Yeah, it’s all Bush/Cheney’s fault.
Is there someone else (other than yourself) that is arm flailing over Iran? You can’t count McCain, he is too similar to Bush/Cheney.
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink
If more people understood the legislative process, and how things move through Congress, instead of listening to the news hounds, that approval rating would be significntly higher…
—————————————————————–
Oh Great Wise One, please share your vast knowledge of the movements of Congress.
Especially your beloved DemoRat Congress. Please list all their great movements here:
2007
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
2008
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
mental orgasm over the prospects of Armageddon??
You really think that is all that is going on?
Max,
What would McCain do about Iran?
Hank Price,
John Casey, and Space and Science Research Center?
LOL! Are you really that gullible, Hank? Send him some money!
‘We are entering a period of global cooling. Not!’
(1/2 way down page at)
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/streamtracker/archive.html?tstamp=200802
Max — FACT: Democrats do not have enough votes to out vote, or over-ride a veto… How do you expect them to do anything?? How about you list all of the legislation that the Democrats have proposed, that has been lost because of their lack of a vote…
I was right earlier… I stand on that…
http://www.wunderground.com/blog...
Doesn’t cosmo continuously denounce links because they are blogs?
Is this a peer reviewed blog cosmo?
SolDevVB
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:42 am | Permalink
mental orgasm over the prospects of Armageddon??
You really think that is all that is going on?
=========================================
Of course not… Why do you think I posted what I did earlier?? You know, about all the communications flying back and forth between Middle Easter sources, and the RR fanatics?? There is MUCH more going on…
Point is, that the Liberals are all that excited over Armageddon… they dont believe in it…
I bet those secret communications are about alien abductions and stuff Chas.
Perhaps they should put the wiretap on them! :cool:
Chas.
History lesson. It isn’t all about the religeous right. Hagee (sp?) is a moron.
”
Clinton’s trouble with China began before his re-election in 1996. To defeat the Republicans, the Democratic party needed a quick infusion of cash to pay for campaign ads. Clinton turned to his Chinese connection, old friends Johnny Chung, John Huang, and Charlie Trie. They headed a shadowy cast of characters that funneled millions of dollars into democratic campaign coffers.
Bill Clinton took contributions he knew came from China, and played another angle as well. US companies wanted to sell China military technology, but the sales were prohibited by law. Economic sanctions for the Tiananmen square massacre and restrictions on technology exports prevented these companies from selling China the armaments they wanted.
In return for campaign contributions, the President shifted regulation of technology exports from the State Department to the free-wheeling Commerce department. The administration also relaxed export controls and allowed corporations to decide if their technology transfers were legal or not. When easing restrictions wasn’t enough, Clinton signed waivers that simply circumvented the law. The President’s waivers allowed the export of machine tools, defense electronics, and even a communications system for the Chinese Air Force.
”
http://www.artistmarket.com/writers/piraino/clintonchina.htm
Say Steven,
Saw you got your pantys all in a bind over No Gun signs yesterday, so I just need to ask you something.
If No Gun signs are so effective,
Do you have one on the front and back doors of your house?
How about on your front and back windshield of each of your cars?
Do you wear a button on your shirt that says No Guns?
You would be a lot safer if you did all of those things ya know.
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:47 am | Permalink
Max — FACT: Democrats do not have enough votes to out vote, or over-ride a veto… How do you expect them to do anything?? How about you list all of the legislation that the Democrats have proposed, that has been lost because of their lack of a vote…
——————————————————————-
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink
If more people understood the legislative process, and how things move through Congress, instead of listening to the news hounds, that approval rating would be significntly higher…
—————————————————————
Chas, you implied that YOU were the expert in such matters.
Please, I’m waiting for your list.
2007
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
2008
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Max,
Again.
What would McCain do about Iran?
SolDevVB,
Casey needs funding. Send him some money.
cosmo… BUSTED….
Sol,
I’m not FOR McCain.
I’m AGAINST Obama.
I do trust the judgement of someone educated at the Naval Academy with experience serving his country, and 20+ years in Congress, much more then someone with practically ZERO experience, except for that 5 Years of Community Service in Chicago.
“What other civil liberties are you willing to sacrifice?”
We do not lose civil liberties under the new FISA bill – it specifically prevents “warrantless wiretaps.” We lose nothing with this bill.
I speak out frequently regarding personal freedom and individual liberties, so I am not quite sure why I am catching flack regarding this bill. I am certainly no fan of the Bush/Cheney model of “closed government.”
I EXPECT the government, however, to have a program to intercept communications between terrorists and terrorist organizations. By the very nature of what has to be done, the process has to be secret.
We know that there are still terrorists that intend to attack us. We know how they communicate. We know, whether we want to admit it or not, that we have a need to place these people under surveillance.
Since so many want to challenge my position, let me ask; what is your proposal for dealing with communications between a terrorist network?
See, “Chas” –
Here’s an issue I have trouble getting my arms around.
Exactly how does “Last Days Theology” work in the minds of fundies?
I see all these people who claim to interpret “prophecy,” (i.e., “war and rumors of war,” et al) and on the one hand some seem to be looking forward to it (”In Case of Rapture, I Get Your Stuff”) and others seem to swill up fear that “Judgment Day” is coming soon.
A couple of years ago, Shrub said he didn’t care what historians would think about his presidency because “We’ll all be dead.” Part of the evangelical philosophy vis a vis Climate Change is based on the fundies’ thinking they won’t have to worry about a destroyed planet since they’ll be swept up into Heaven before the nastiness comes along.
So if Barack Obama is the antiChrist, what’s the problem? The “saved” will be out of our way and the rest of us will be free to enjoy a thousand years of debauchery and sin and agony on our own. What’s it to the evangelicals? They’ll be in Heaven, won’t they?
So are the truly faithful looking forward to Armageddon? Or are they revealing their deep-seated fear that maybe they aren’t faithful enough to be swept up by the Rapture and miss the Tribulation?
So issues such as pollution and Climate Change mean nothing to them? “I’ve taken care of Eternity so I’m here and now to get all I can now!”?
“HLP” is guaranteed “Paradise” and so he does all he can to afford a $100-per-fill-up for his SUV before the 2nd Coming?
Why bother with earthly consequences?
And you call the religious right loooney?
LOL cosmos!
You have a hellofaset of gonads! You reference a wunderground BLOG to discredit one of my links? Are you serious?
You consistently get your marching orders from realclimate.org and you try to discredit my sources? realclimate.org, the Ben and Jerry Ice Cream left-wing propaganda machine?
Two questions for you my delusional little buddy:
What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?
What percentage of the CO2 in the atmosphere is as a result of man?
If you can answer those two questions honestly people will realize what an incredible hoax AGW is!
Good morning Monkeyman,
I don’t have an SUV. SUV’s are merely the auto industries answer to the CAFE standards that made station wagons impossible.
I did pay over $200 to fill my motorhome the other day. I hope gasoline goes to $10 a gallon before the election!
The liberals think that that’s the way to force change. I hope it forces a change in elected officials!
Monkey — I have often wondered those same things… but they ARE terribly bothered by “earthly” things…
MAX… I gave you the reason the Democrats cant get anything done… It’s the republicans… You can read, cant you??
“What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?
What percentage of the CO2 in the atmosphere is as a result of man?”
Just under 400ppm of which a bit over 1/4 is anthropogenic.
Hank and SolDevVB,
Would you prefer McIntyre’s skeptic blog?
Leif Svalgaard wrote: (comment 222)
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2534#comment-189332
“The ‘Space and Science Research Center’ and John Casey should not be relied on for valid research. I know of Mr. Casey and have checked his credentials and they are not legitimate. He has tried to recruit even me into his band of ‘experts’. I would not place any value on the ramblings of the press release.”
—————–
http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2008/01/looks-like-hoax-to-me.html
“Doing some Googling, I found the alleged research center’s address and fax number at an unrelated [link] website for what’s supposed to be an investment company. I also found that the “research center’s” phone number matches that of an attorney [link] at an unrelated address.”
—————–
Is Casey’s degree in management, not science?
Are you going to send him some money, so he can move into a real office?
Barbara Rossing recently participated in the Trinity Institute’s 37th National Theological Conference in New York. View the Trinity Church webcast, recorded January 23, 2007:
http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/education/?institute-2007&p=schedule&s=telecast
The Rapture Exposed. (Paperback) New York, New York: Basic Books, 2005. by Barbara Rossing.
Her publications include The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation (Basic Books, 2004), a critique of fundamentalist “Left Behind” theology; The Choice Between Two Cities: Whore, Bride and Empire in the Apocalypse (Trinity Press, 1999); two volumes of the New Proclamation commentary for preachers (Fortress Press, 2000 and 2004) and articles and book chapters on the Apocalypse nd ecology.
http://www.lstc.edu/people/faculty/index.php?action=viewFaculty&id=23#works
Hank Price posted July 10, 2008 at 12:29 pm
“What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2?”
————-
What percentage of an adult human is a tiny bit of deadly Ebola virus?
CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere causes a significant amount of radiative forcing.
How much CO2 is produced by the raging forest fires in Cali? Better cut down those trees.
More peer reviewed blogs cosmo? How thoughtful.
CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere causes a significant amount of radiative forcing.
Then you should discontinue exhaling.
‘Space and Science Research Center – Issuepedia’
http://issuepedia.org/index.php?title=Space_and_Science_Research_Center&printable=yes
Linda,
I must say that you continue to surprise me.
You get to act like the nice lady on the blog who doesn’t want any trouble, doesn’t like mean posters, and who doesn’t like name calling.
Meanwhile you have your friends do all you dirty work without one word from you on what they do here even though it is far worse than the crap you feign indignance over.
I am not surprised, mind you, you did this from day one when WS Clark was nothing but a mean nasty and vulgar person on the other blog.
You simply said he was your friend protecting you.
Now you have Steven doing your dirty work for you.
It must be nice to act like you are above these things and only want to get along here while your so called friends can act any way they want to in your name.
I am not surprised should = I shouldn’t be surprised though
How much CO2 is produced by the raging forest fires in Cali?
Quite a bit. It’s called a positive feedback loop.
Just for Farmie…
McKinney Selects VP Running Partner in Green Bid
Meanwhile, in Green Party news, presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney has chosen activist and journalist Rosa Clemente as her vice-presidential running partner. The New York-based Clemente is executive director of the Hip Hop Caucus and a longtime activist and journalist. If McKinney wins the nomination, she and Clemente would make up the first all-female-of-color ticket in US history. The Green Party will select its nominee at its convention this weekend.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/10/headlines
CYNTHIAAAAAAAA
Burning trees = CO2 production
Burnt forest = less CO2 re-absorption.
Why aren’t we cutting down the forrests to prevent forest fires?
and plant some corn there for ethanol…
I’ve got dibbs on the Amazon!!!
Sol – and what do we replace them with? Perhaps had we not changed rainfall patterns …
bth
Posted July 10, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
Sol – and what do we replace them with?
SolDevVB
Posted July 10, 2008 at 1:46 pm | Permalink
and plant some corn there for ethanol…
The Hip-Hop caucus?
Next thing we know the Beer Party will field a candidate!
Corn will not do well in the terraine and no rainfall.
Around 55 million years ago, the Earth experienced a rapid warming period that lasted for almost 200,000 years. This warming, known as the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM) has been proposed as an analogue of what is occurring today. Temperature records dating from the early period of the PETM showed that temperatures all over the globe rose by approximately 5 oC in as little as 10,000 years. This was accompanied by a change in the global hydrological cycle and a decrease of the 13C/12C ratio found in carbon-containing organisms both from the land and sea. This change in isotope ratio suggests that the surge in global temperatures was linked to a change in the carbon cycle. During this period there were mass extinctions of species, as well as others spreading about the globe. This time period was also accompanied by the appearance of modern orders of mammals, even up to primates. Although scientists know a great deal about this period of rapid global warming—that it was caused by a massive amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, altered the carbon cycle, and greatly altered ecosystems—one thing remains unclear: what set this off? What was the original source of all this carbon?
http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2006/12/11/6247
Global warming started long before the “Industrial Revolution” and the invention of the internal combustion engine. Global warming began 18,000 years ago as the earth started warming its way out of the Pleistocene Ice Age– a time when much of North America, Europe, and Asia lay buried beneath great sheets of glacial ice.
Earth’s climate and the biosphere have been in constant flux, dominated by ice ages and glaciers for the past several million years. We are currently enjoying a temporary reprieve from the deep freeze.
Approximately every 100,000 years Earth’s climate warms up temporarily. These warm periods, called interglacial periods, appear to last approximately 15,000 to 20,000 years before regressing back to a cold ice age climate. At year 18,000 and counting our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age is much nearer its end than its beginning.
Global warming during Earth’s current interglacial warm period has greatly altered our environment and the distribution and diversity of all life. For example:
Approximately 15,000 years ago the earth had warmed sufficiently to halt the advance of glaciers, and sea levels worldwide began to rise.
By 8,000 years ago the land bridge across the Bering Strait was drowned, cutting off the migration of men and animals to North America.
Since the end of the Ice Age, Earth’s temperature has risen approximately 16 degrees F and sea levels have risen a total of 300 feet! Forests have returned where once there was only ice.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
Sol, I don’t understand. Where were all the coal plants and SUV’s to cause all of that warming?
Evidence and Speculations (to 1954) – LINKS –
It was an incredible claim, yet the evidence was eloquent. The scraped-down rock beds, the boulders perched wildly out of place, the bizarre deposits of gravel found all around northern Europe and the northern United States, all these looked exactly like the effects of Alpine glaciers — only far, far larger. By the late 19th century, after passionate debate, most scientists accepted the incredible. Long ago (although not very long as geological time went, for Stone Age humans had lived through it), northern regions had been buried kilometers deep in continental sheets of ice. This Ice Age stood as evidence of a prodigious climate change.
=>CO2 greenhouse
Toward the end of the 19th century, field studies by geologists turned up another fact, almost as surprising and controversial. There had been not one Ice Age but several. The stupendous ice sheets had slowly ground south and retreated, time and again. The series of glacial periods had alternated with times of warmer climate, each cycle lasting many tens of thousands of years. German geologists, meticulously studying the scars left by ancient rivers on what were now hillsides in the Alps, worked out a scheme of four major cycles
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/cycles.htm
ANTI,
The damn dinosaurs had nukes. They smoked cigarettes too.
http://www.pickensplan.com/
common sense energy plan
Sol, Oh yes I remember seeing the Marborosuarous and the Commiesuarous on the Discovery Channel. :)
“The damn dinosaurs had nukes. They smoked cigarettes too.”
They also drank beer and listened to rock ‘n’ roll music.
Loud.
Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren’t quite understanding what their robots are telling them.
This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.
In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global oceans.
“There has been a very slight cooling, but not anything really significant,” Willis says. So the buildup of heat on Earth may be on a brief hiatus. “Global warming doesn’t mean every year will be warmer than the last. And it may be that we are in a period of less rapid warming.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025
*************************
So the oceans have cooled but that doesn’t fit the model….
I am just tickled they are all dead!
Man-Made Warming?
The most fundamental question is scientific: Is the observed warming of the past 30 years due to natural causes or are human activities a main or even a contributing factor?
At first glance, it is quite plausible that humans could be responsible for warming the cli-mate. After all, the burning of fossil fuels to generate energy releases large quantities of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. The CO2 level has been increasing steadily since the beginning of the industrial revolution and is now 35 percent higher than it was 200 years ago. Also, we know from direct measurements that CO2 is a “greenhouse gas” which strongly absorbs infrared (heat) radiation. So the idea that burning fossil fuels causes an enhanced “greenhouse effect” needs to be taken seriously.
But in seeking to understand recent warming, we also have to consider the natural factors that have regularly warmed the climate prior to the industrial revolution and, indeed, prior to any human presence on the earth. After all, the geological record shows a persistent 1,500-year cycle of warming and cooling extending back at least one million years.
In identifying the burning of fossil fuels as the chief cause of warming today, many politicians and environmental activists simply appeal to a so-called “scientific consensus.” There are two things wrong with this. First, there is no such consensus: An increasing number of climate scientists are raising serious questions about the political rush to judgment on this issue. For example, the widely touted “consensus” of 2,500 scientists on the United Nations Intergov-ernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is an illusion: Most of the panelists have no scien-tific qualifications, and many of the others object to some part of the IPCC’s report. The As-sociated Press reported recently that only 52 climate scientists contributed to the report’s “Summary for Policymakers.”
Likewise, only about a dozen members of the governing board voted on the “consensus statement” on climate change by the American Meteorological Society (AMS). Rank and file AMS scientists never had a say, which is why so many of them are now openly rebelling. Estimates of skepticism within the AMS regarding man-made global warming are well over 50 percent.
The second reason not to rely on a “scientific consensus” in these matters is that this is not how science works. After all, scientific advances customarily come from a minority of scientists who challenge the majority view—or even just a single person (think of Galileo or Einstein). Science proceeds by the scientific method and draws conclusions based on evidence, not on a show of hands.
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2007&month=08
And tatoos. Yes, dino-tatoos…
Next thing we know the Beer Party will field a candidate!
Actually, they already have.
http://www.votebeerparty.com/platform.html
Sol – the Milankovitch cycles have been extensively studied and explained. the current excursion is far outside of the envelope of those cycles.
I recommebd the Course Geology 810S at WSU this fall. Paleoclimatology.
There are only two things that really chap my ass-
1. A drunk, tattooed, Dino-punk, and 2. A 4 foot tall snow cone.
Why havbe the seas cooled? Isn’t the oceans warming the most damning factor of global warming? And yet they have cooled. Hmmmm
With only few days remaining in 2007, the indications are the global temperature for this year is the same as that for 2006 – there has been no warming over the 12 months.
But is this just a blip in the ever upward trend you may ask? No.
The fact is that the global temperature of 2007 is statistically the same as 2006 as well as every year since 2001. Global warming has, temporarily or permanently, ceased. Temperatures across the world are not increasing as they should according to the fundamental theory behind global warming – the greenhouse effect. Something else is happening and it is vital that we find out what or else we may spend hundreds of billions of pounds needlessly.
http://www.newstatesman.com/scitech/2007/12/global-warming-temperature
Sol,
IT is obvious that either your readings were wrong, the ones taking the readings are liars, or that somehow the oceans cooling is actually proof of AGW.
It doesn’t matter, really.
The debate is over, AGW is happening, and if we don’t act now (whenever now is, they wont tell us) it will be too late.
*EYE ROLL*
“Or it could mean scientists aren’t quite understanding what their robots are telling them.”
The fact that the oceans have ’swelled’ due to lower overall density indicates the opposite of what the robots are saying. It is likely a sampling problem.
“Global warming has, temporarily or permanently, ceased. Temperatures across the world are not increasing as they should according to the fundamental theory behind global warming – the greenhouse effect.”
NOT TRUE. According to the warming ‘theory’ one would expect stasis in periods where one would otherwise expect cyclic cooling. We are in such a period right now relating largely to ENSO:
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=62&tstamp=200802
“The point of this figure is that both natural and anthropogenic forcing is important, and that the recent warming requires the inclusion of anthropogenic forcing to simulate the recent observed temperature increase.”
Ben,
What is the perfect average temperature of the Earth that we should strive to maintain and why?
The robots are reporting that the ocean is cooling, but you don’t like that data so you dismiss is.
Would you dismiss it if it fit into your model?
Can anyone prove that the oceans are lower density? Are the whales peeing too much or what?
IT is obvious that either your readings were wrong, the ones taking the readings are liars, or that somehow the oceans cooling is actually proof of AGW.
Guess you nailed it Nat.
I’m not sure of an exact number. Obviously it will be seasonal and will vary with location. Stability is largely the issue. As you know, when we change temperature we also change rainfall patterns. That, in turn, can wreak havoc on agriculture. As you know, the multi-year drought on western KS, Australia and elsewhere was predicted and is not particularly helpful for crops. As you know, if it rains either too little or too much for a particular type of vegetation that vegetation will suffer.
The jet stream has migrated – with that the rain patterns have also changed. Climate change is a lot more than just temperature.
Sol – several months ago I read a fairly long article about the robots. The researchers at the time said they had to be missing something since the overall volume of the oceans has increased more than can be explained by glacial melt. The robots measure discrete points – the volume represents an overall figure.
6 BILLION in funding for the promoters of AGW.
That is a lot of motivation.
From the link:
But it’s also possible that something more mysterious is going on.
That becomes clear when you consider what’s happening to global sea level. Sea level rises when the oceans get warm because warmer water expands. This accounts for about half of global sea level rise. So with the oceans not warming, you would expect to see less sea level rise. Instead, sea level has risen about half an inch in the past four years. That’s a lot.
bth, could heaving from plates and volcanoes on the ocean floor cause the oceans to rise as well?
“Now you have Steven doing your dirty work for you.
“It must be nice to act like you are above these things and only want to get along here while your so called friends can act any way they want to in your name.”
I don’t do anyone’s dirty work. I was asking you to lay off on Linda.
Does anyone else wonder why a battle tested Marine has to beat up on women? Such behavior just doesn’t seem real “manly” to me.
Oh and Max,
I adopted your strategy and put a no-gun-toting-paranoid-delusional-nutjobs sign on my terminal, too. Your posts still show up!!?? Still baffles as to how that’s not working. :)
bth,
It still boils down to a lot of “I don’t knows” and throwing out of data because it doesn’t fit the model or expectations.
Doesn’t sound real scientific.
Doesn’t support the largest transfer of wealth since FDR (and maybe more) that the cap and trade farce is promoting.
You guys are almost as funny as the Creationists and their fake science LOL
Steven,
How do I beat up on Linda?
Chas, your almost as funny as that God hating fake preacher……Oh wait….LOL
Steven,
You didn’t “ask” me to lay off Linda. You threatened to continue your personal attacks against me until I stopped attacking her.
I must have missed where I was beating up or attacking anyone here.
As I said, you liberals are all about tolerance until someone disagrees with you.
Arctic volcanoes exploded at ‘impossible’ depth
18:00 25 June 2008
NewScientist.com news service
Jeff Hecht
A robotic sub captured this image of an older pillow-shaped feature – formed when magma cooled in water – covered with recent debris that indicates an explosive eruption. In the foreground is the skeleton of a sponge (Image: Reves-Sohn/Agave)EnlargeAdvertisement
The deep ocean continues to surprise – it appears that volcanoes on the Arctic seabed have blown up at depths where such events were thought impossible.
In 1999, the largest-ever swarm of quakes on a mid-ocean ridge was recorded, on the Gakkel Ridge in the east Arctic basin.
To find out what caused it, Robert Reves-Sohn of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts, US, and colleagues peeked at the ridge with robot subs and various sensors used to search under pack ice.
They found shattered rock spread over 10 square kilometres, suggesting a series of volcanic explosions.
Such explosions can occur in shallower water if hot lava rapidly vaporises the surrounding seawater, but beyond 3 kilometres down the pressure is too high for this to happen.
Gassy build-up
To explain the destruction his team found, Reves-Sohn says the lava must have contained 10 times more carbon dioxide than the highest value ever measured in mid-ocean-ridge rocks. He suggests that the CO2 bubbled out of the rising lava and built up in a chamber beneath the seabed.
Seismic records show that the explosions were preceded by a series of earthquakes. The researchers believe these will have cracked the roof of the CO2 chamber. The gas and magma then burst out, scattering fragments of cooled rock over the bottom.
The researchers calculate that for the rock fragments to have scattered over 10 square kilometres, the CO2 chamber must have been several kilometres beneath the seafloor. An explosion of this type would have created explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column.
Ongoing eruptions
http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn14203-arctic-volcanoes-exploded-at-impossible-depth.html
Researchers found jagged, glassy rock fragments spread out over a 10 square kilometer (4 square mile) area around a series of small volcanic craters about 4,000 meters (2.5 miles) below the sea surface. The volcanoes lie along the Gakkel Ridge, a remote and mostly unexplored section of the mid-ocean ridge system that runs through the Arctic Ocean.
“These are the first pyroclastic deposits we’ve ever found in such deep water, at oppressive pressures that inhibit the formation of steam, and many people thought this was not possible,” said WHOI geophysicist Rob Reves-Sohn, lead author and chief scientist for the Arctic Gakkel Vents Expedition (AGAVE) of July 2007. “This means that a tremendous blast of CO2 was released into the water column during the explosive eruption.”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080625140649.htm
Arctic Volcanoes Found Active at Unprecedented Depths
Kimberly Johnson
for National Geographic News
June 26, 2008
Buried under thick ice and frigid water, volcanic explosions are shaking the Arctic Ocean floor at depths previously thought impossible, according to a new study.
Using robot-operated submarines, researchers have found deposits of glassy rock—evidence of eruptions—scattered over more than 5 square miles (15 square kilometers) of the seabed.
Hotbed of Volcanic Activity Found Beneath Arctic Ocean (June 25, 2003)
Scientists Excited by Arctic Ocean Ridge Finds (November 29, 2001)
Hydrothermal Vents Found in Arctic Ocean (January 23, 2003)
Explosive volcanic eruptions were not thought to be possible at depths below the critical pressure for steam formation, or 2 miles (3,000 meters). The deposits, however, were found at seafloor depths greater than 2.5 miles (4 kilometers).
“This kind of implosive seismicity is rare anywhere on Earth,” said study author Robert Sohn, a geophysicist at the Massachusetts-based Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.
Link for above.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080626-arctic-volcano.html
By deleting inconvenient data, I point to this quote.
“We don’t believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice,” Reeves-Sohn told LiveScience, “but they seem to have had a major impact on the overlying water column.”
The eruptions discharge large amounts of carbon dioxide, helium, trace metals and heat into the water over long distances, he said.
The research, detailed in Thursday’s issue of the journal Nature, was funded by NASA, the National Science Foundation and Woods Hole.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25419241/
No lets see, if you heat water under ice, what exactly happens to that ice???
Ask an AGWer – “Nothing”
Logic would tell you otherwise.
Hmmmm…. let’s see…. it would probably MELT that ice!! Right?? lol
No Sol, Man is causing the planet to melt, we are distroying everything, we must do something NOW..wha! wah! wha!..and so on and so forth…you know the routine.. ;)
UNLESS it had say, 4000 meters of WATER above it!!
Nathan, you went and attacked LINDA again and there was not a darn thing she said that deserved it.
You are one very troubled young man. Why don’t you just shut up about Linda. What the hell is your problem?
Oh, for Pete’s sake, drop the AGW debate already. Accept that you aren’t going to agree and get the hell over it.
The climate IS changing. I don’t think any of you can dispute that. But you latch on to this idead that Global Warming must mean things are getting hotter. Global Warming is a generic term referring to the changes in the earths climate as a result of outside stimulus, both man made and not.
I don’t understand the huge debate. It certainly isn’t going to hurt anything if we take an interest in our environment and make efforts to “clean” things up and conserve energy sources. If it doesn’t help AGW, well it will certainly help us personally. So really, what do you care? Why the huge debate on it? Both sides get rather rabid rather ridiculously. And BTW, to purposely instigate an argument and then claim it’s the other sides fault, well that is just childish. We should all strive to do better for our environment, regardless of the potential effect on AGW, but simply to BETTER OUR LIVES. (Oh and the whole decreasing our dependancy on oil can’t hurt anything, either – well, except for Bush’s pocketbook)
UNLESS it had say, 4000 meters of WATER above it!!
mmmmmK. Volcanoe under ice has no effect.
Translation: does not support arm flailing. Delete data.
What I care, Anon, is that billions of public funds have been poured on this ‘problem’ and they still can’t claim human intervention.
What I care, Anon, is that politicians are latching on to this and creating insane policy that will destroy our economy.
I would hope you cared about that as well.
SOL — Volcano 2.5 miles UNDER the ice… IT erupts… certainly… BUT, but the time it diffuses into the 2.5 miles of water, it would have very little effect on the temperature at the surface…
Simple math, really…
Simple math, really…
Then please provide your formula, simple as it is.
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. — A man says he was so consumed by the spirit of God that he fell and hit his head while worshipping.
Now he wants Lakewind Church to pay $2.5 million for medical bills, lost income, and pain and suffering.
Matt Lincoln is suing after the church’s insurance company denied his claim for medical bills, he said.
The 57-year-old has had two surgeries since the June 2007 injury but still feels pain in his back and legs.
He said he was asking God to have “a real experience” while praying.
Lincoln said he has fallen from the force of the spirit before but has always been caught by someone.
Lawyers for the church said other congregants saw him on the floor laughing after his fall. They said he failed to look out for his own safety.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379881,00.html
anti – the effects of seafloor rise has been factored in. With remote sensing the floor is well mapped.
Bush signs spy bill and draws lawsuit
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President George W. Bush signed a law on Thursday overhauling rules for eavesdropping on terrorism suspects but immediately faced a civil liberties challenge calling it a threat to Americans’ privacy.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1044211720080710?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
It’s so simple, it doesnt NEED a formula… unless you want to allege that the entire volcanic spout comes to the surface in one compressed column of heat and gasses… in which case you dont need science… you need a psychiatrist…
When the volcano, 4000 meters beneath the surface erupts… due to pressure, and depth, and the nature of water itself, tells you that the heat, etc., of the eruption, will diffuse to a large area… The water is already COLD… but not frozen, obviously…. The diffusion alone should tell you that the temperature at the surface will be very little different than before the eruption…
Remember — You have an immense amount of heat diffusion after the eruption…. and the space of that diffusion isnt in a small concentrated area….
With remote sensing the floor is well mapped.
How did they miss the arctic volcanoes?
Political Mama,
How am I attacking Linda?
She routinely says she doesn’t like the personal attacks here and name calling.
Yet the very people she calls very loyal friends and vows loyalty to are the same ones who spew some of the most personal attacks here.
Now Steven says he is doing it as leverage for Linda.
At what point does Linda tell her so called friends the same stuff she tells everyone else?
I am not attacking her. I am pointing out the obvious.
Sol — just ask Ben to explain it to you… You like to feud with me too much… and I am not going to feud with you over something I clearly understand… but dont have the proper mathematical formulae to appease your attack mode…
How does a bubble move from the bottom of a water column to the top? At what rate of speed? Are the gasses inside the bubble static or moving? At what rate does heat exchange from the surface of the bubble to the surrounding water? How large were the bubbles? What temperature were they? What was the temperature throughout the column?
Looks like you assume quite a bit chas.
Stop worrying, be happy! Nothing to worry about with regard to our economy! /sarcasm
According to McCain economic adviser former Texas senator Phil Gramm, “the nation is experiencing a “mental recession.”
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/07/mccain-ally-say.html
You clearly understand, but don’t have the math to back it up. Yup, you sound like the typical AGWer. And yet again, you claim knowledge yet can’t back it up. Seeing a pattern here.
Not feuding with you. Calling a spade a spade and BS BS.
Sol, there you go with that “water column” thing… and the bubbles thing… WTH???
You got the entire Arctic Ocean above the eruption… not a column… You are totally ignoring heat diffusion…. And the pressure from the water would likely hold down on the seismic/volcanic disruption found on the surface…
Chas: “Volcano 2.5 miles UNDER the ice… IT erupts… certainly… BUT, but the time it diffuses into the 2.5 miles of water, it would have very little effect on the temperature at the surface…
Simple math, really…”
——
From the article from Sol- “An explosion of this type would have created explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column.”
SOL — Just pick up any entry level physics book, and look under heat diffusion, in liquids… That will give you the answers you dont think exist… I am not a physicist, or a mathematician… As I said earlier, ask Ben… he can explain the whole thing to you, AND, he has the formulae to show you… OK??
there you go with that “water column” thing… and the bubbles thing…
and the bubbles thing
the entire Arctic Ocean above the eruption… not a column
the pressure from the water would likely hold down on the seismic/volcanic disruption
**********************************************
something I clearly understand
***********************************************
*
Me thinks not.
From the article from Sol- “An explosion of this type would have created explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column.”
All I am trying to say is that by the time any significant heat from a volcano 4000 meters below the surface (your figure), it would be so diffused, as to be very insignificant to the temperature on the surface… What is there in that, that you find far fetched??
This is key Chas- “explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column”
Sol,
I find that I am bit more concerned with the billions we are pumping into a useless war and billions more we spend appeasing big business on useless things than I am on spending money on something, that again, can’t hurt us, but even if it doesn’t stop Global Warming (which of course it won’t because global warming isn’t a static effect, but irregardless) will STILL help other aspects of the environment and our every day life.
But to pick the environment as the one unacceptable area when there are so many more that are costing us so much more, that seems rather close minded. If you are going to harp on our ridiculous spending habits, make sure you harp on EVERYTHING, please, and not just discount global warming simply because YOU don’t believe it and therefore it must be a waste of money. SOMETHING is affecting our environment and our climate. I would rather spend money finding out what that is so that we can perhaps combat it, than many of the other things this nation so needlessly spends money on.
We took our child to see WALL-E when it came out. Don’t know if you’ve seen it. Very cute movie. Yes, I know it’s fiction and it’s animated. But look up what it’s premise is. It makes some very interesting points that, while not likely to happen in the immediate future, if we don’t change the way we do things now, will likely happen in the somewhat forseeable future – something that I don’t want for my descendants. Do you want it for yours?
whatever nathan, you brought her up after being asked to leave her alone, you even said you would leave her alone. So that makes you a liar. Hold each accountable for their own words, Linda has nothing to do with anyone defending her, we do it on our own.
Some people just know the right thing to do. You apparently don’t.
I absolutely love this……………….
“Group proposes George W. Bush Sewage Plant”
“A California group submitted a proposal Monday to rename a sewage treatment plant after President Bush”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25576371/
“In President Bush’s case, we think that we will be cleaning up a substantial mess for the next 10 or 20 years,” he said. “The sewage treatment facility’s job is to clean up a mess, so we think it’s a fitting tribute.”
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KS_DOCTOR_INDICTED_KSOL-?SITE=KSSAL&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
So why is the prosecution trying to silence these people if they’ve got such a good case against him, they shouldn’t have to worry.
I think whoever is pushing this along with the medical marijuana raids need to have new jobs.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_04/willie112404.html
This is a great read on the Petro Dollar. The gentlemen who wrote this article is dead on acurate, and has been in the past too.
Political Mama,
I never said I would leave her alone. I said I would do my best to ignore her.
Last night Steven was going about saying some pretty mean personal attacks, as usual.
He said he would stop doing it if I were to stop attacking Linda.
Where have I been attacking Linda?
I only said something to her the other day because she was making a pretty political statement with name calling.
And yes, Linda has everything to do with some defending her.
WS Clark is one of the most vulgar and vile posters here. He is one of the few posters here who routinely do nothing but personal attacks.
Linda has said that WS Clark is a close friend and that she and he are loyal to one another.
It is a valid question of Linda how she can expect everyone else to not be mean or personal on this or any other blog and yet she says nothing about the way her loyal friend acts here.
I have said nothing mean to Linda, I have not called her any names, and yet all of a sudden here is Steven and you jumping all over me?
What is this “right thing” to do that I am not?
ANTI
Posted July 10, 2008 at 3:41 pm | Permalink
This is key Chas- “explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column”
==========================================
But, ANTI, I dont think the article said that was what hapened!! Did it??
“WS Clark is one of the most vulgar and vile posters here. He is one of the few posters here who routinely do nothing but personal attacks.”
Really? I guess that vaunted “reading comprehension” of yours is slipping again, Price.
Read my commentary re: FISA or many other topics.
This is all real simple – I only fire back when fired upon.
Get over it……………………………….
Yes Chas, the article stated that. I copied it directly from Sol’s article.
Global Warming Alarmist Rules:
- Never discuss the technical aspects of Climate Change from an unbiased viewpoint
- Attack the skeptic regardless of his credentials
- Repeat the second step
Sound familiar to anyone?
ANTI — So what part of the rest of the sentence did you NOT copy?? LOL
“Linda has said that WS Clark is a close friend and that she and he are loyal to one another.”
And yes, that is true – Linda is a good and decent woman and deserves respect. A year or so ago, when some son of a bitch called her a slut, I did get angry and, as a result, agreed to participate in the temporary boycott of WE Blog.
You are such a sensitive boy, Price, get over yourself.
ANTI
Posted July 10, 2008 at 3:40 pm | Permalink
From the article from Sol- “An explosion of this type would have created explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column.”
LOL
Chas, here is the paragraph that the sentence was in. LOL
“The researchers calculate that for the rock fragments to have scattered over 10 square kilometres, the CO2 chamber must have been several kilometres beneath the seafloor. An explosion of this type would have created explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column.”
Chas, would you like the whole article?? LOL
StevenEDavis
Posted July 10, 2008 at 2:44 pm | Permalink
“Now you have Steven doing your dirty work for you.
“It must be nice to act like you are above these things and only want to get along here while your so called friends can act any way they want to in your name.”
I don’t do anyone’s dirty work. I was asking you to lay off on Linda.
Does anyone else wonder why a battle tested Marine has to beat up on women? Such behavior just doesn’t seem real “manly” to me.
—————————-
That was from Steven Davis and his one hand fapping.
WS Clark,
So what was it that I said to you the other night to warrant your telling me that your Granddaughter would have told me to “phuck off” if she was not going to bed?
“A year or so ago, when some son of a bitch called her a slut, I did get angry and, as a result, agreed to participate in the temporary boycott of WE Blog.
You are such a sensitive boy, Price, get over yourself.”
Let me get this straight. You get angry and stomp off the blog and it’s Price who’s the sensitive one? You Libs kill me.
When’s the next BOYcott?
Ah yes, I see the catch 22 from you now!
If I am mean and call people names, that is wrong and shouldn’t be done.
If I try to be nice here and point out how others are not, now I am being too sensitive and I am not acting like a battle hardened Marine.
It doesn’t really matter what some of us say, do, or how we act here. You will find fault and attack us either way.
Phil Graham has been dismissed by the McCain Campaign for calling American a “nation of whiners” I can’t disagree too much with the concept, but, well, I thought Phil Graham was more suave than that.
I think the democrats might not have anything to worry about. Every time Obama steps on his D&^K, someone on McCain’s staff says something almost as stupid before it sticks
It’s like neither side even wants the White House Sometimes.
JERRY!!!! JERRY!!!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_gramm
Ah yes, the Fisters…
LLTVET
Posted July 10, 2008 at 4:24 pm | Permalink
Phil Graham has been dismissed by the McCain Campaign for calling American a “nation of whiners” I can’t disagree too much with the concept, but, well, I thought Phil Graham was more suave than that.
I think the democrats might not have anything to worry about. Every time Obama steps on his D&^K, someone on McCain’s staff says something almost as stupid before it sticks
It’s like neither side even wants the White House Sometimes.
JERRY!!!! JERRY!!!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_gramm
________________________________________________
Remember the Republican debate where each candidate was allowed to ask one another one question?
Ron Paul asked McCain about the Presidents working group on Financial Markets. McCain stumbled around the question because he has no economic knowledge whatsoever. He eventually said that he would rely on the help of his friends Jack Kemp, Warren Redmond, and Phil Gramm.
Gramm calls Americans whiners and says that the recession we are in is only “mental”. What a piece of #%*@.
Gramm is A VP for the Swiss Bank (USB). They are in financial trouble. I guess we all know why with people like Gramm in power.
Dear Members and Friends of The Clergy Letter Project,
I’m happy to provide this July update to all of you. If all goes well, you should find the following four items in this note:
The Clergy Letter Project has initiated a companion letter for American Rabbis;
An update on Evolution Weekend 2009;
Two free resources for help with Evolution Weekend 2009; and Another endorsement for The Clergy Letter Project.
1. The Clergy Letter Project has initiated a companion letter for American Rabbis. Because The Clergy Letter was written for Christian clergy members, Jewish clergy have felt left out. With the help of Rabbi David Oler from Congregation Beth Or in Deerfield, Illinois, we have begun collecting signatures on a companion letter for American rabbis.
As rabbis from various branches of Judaism, we the undersigned, urge public school boards to affirm their commitment to the teaching of the science of evolution. Fundamentalists of various traditions, who perceive the science of evolution to be in conflict with their personal religious beliefs, are seeking to influence public school boards to authorize the teaching of creationism. We see this as a breach in the separation of church and state. Those who believe in a literal interpretation of the Biblical account of creation are free to teach their perspective in their homes, religious institutions and private schools. To teach it in the public schools would be to assert a particular religious perspective in an environment which is supposed to be free of such indoctrination.
The Bible is the primary source of spiritual inspiration and of values for us and for many others, though not everyone, in our society. It is, however, open to interpretation, with some taking the creation account and other content literally and some preferring a figurative understanding. It is possible to be inspired by the religious teachings of the Bible while not taking a literalist approach and while accepting the validity of science including the foundational concept of evolution. It is not the role of public schools to indoctrinate students with specific religious beliefs but rather to educate them in the established principles of science and in other subjects of general knowledge.
I hope that all of the rabbis receiving this note opt to add their signature to this powerful statement.
I plan to post the letter and signatures once we reach about 100! Please share information about the letter’s existence with any Jewish clergy you think might be interested.
2. An update on Evolution Weekend 2009
Even though Evolution Weekend is still more than 7 months away, we already have more than 180 participants signed up. Those participants represent 46 states and six countries! We’re still missing participation from Alabama, Arkansas, Nevada, New Mexico and the District of Columbia. Please help us fill out this roster. And if you plan on participating, please let me know.
Just to remind everyone, Evolution Weekend 2009 is scheduled for 13-15 February 2009 (although if these dates are problematic, participation can occur on any nearby weekend. The shape and form of participation is fully left to the discretion of each local congregation with the intent being to create an intellectual space for meaningful discussion of the compatibility of religion and science. Sermons, speakers, discussion groups, adult education classes, etc. are all perfect ways to engage your community. Our resource page
(http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_resources.htm#Sermons) lists more than 100 sermons you might find useful and our list of scientific consultants lists more than 590 scientists who are willing to help out.
Please sign up to participate if you haven’t yet done so and please spread the word to others.
3. Two free resources for help with Evolution Weekend 2009
To help with our planning for Evolution Weekend 2009, or just for your edification, I want to inform you of two free resources you might find useful.
The first item is a recent publication produced by the John Templeton Foundation. The booklet, entitled Does science make belief in God obsolete?, was edited by Michael Shermer (editor of eSkeptic and Skeptic magazine) and here’s what he had to say about it:
I wanted to alert eSkeptic readers about a free beautifully produced booklet on the question “Does science make belief in God obsolete?” published by the Templeton Foundation and edited by myself. The booklet contains 13 essays of varying answers to this question, which itself is part of the Templeton Foundation’s “Big Questions” project (a previous big question, for example, is “Does the universe have a purpose?”) To answer this latest big question, I was selected by Templeton to not only edit the essays, but to select the participants. We aimed for a wide range of commentators who would provide an equally wide range of answers, from “yes” to “no” to “it depends” to “no, but it should” (the latter by the inimitable Christopher Hitchens).
Since I am aware of the reputation that the Templeton Foundation has within the skeptical, atheist, and humanist communities for harboring a right-wing Christian agenda, I would like to note that, in fact, they invited me to select the commentators and edit their essays, and insisted that I include skeptics, atheists, and humanists, which you will see that I did. There was never any hint to me that I should edit the commentaries to come out a certain way to match the alleged agenda; to the contrary, they seemed most eager to give everyone a fair shake … to the tune of over a million dollars spent in a national advertising campaign that included advertorials place in Scientific American, American Scientist, Nature, The New Scientist, The Atlantic Monthly, Commentary, The Chronicle of Higher Education, The Economist, The Financial Times, The New Republic, Prospect, and the Sunday edition of The New York Times. Oh, and Skeptic magazine!
The full list of essayists includes:
On the “Yes” side
Victor Stenger: Yes. Worse. Science renders belief in God incoherent.
·Steven Pinker: Yes, if by science we include secular reason and knowledge.
·Pervez Hoodbhoy: Not necessarily. You must find a science-compatible God.
·Stuart Kauffman: No, if we redefine God as creativity in the universe.
·Chrisopher Hitchens: No, but it should.
·Michael Shermer: It depends: belief no, God yes.
On the “No” side
·Mary Midgley: Of course not, belief in God is not a scientific question.
·Kenneth Miller: Of course not. Science expands our appreciation of the Divine.
·William D. Phillips: Absolutely not! Belief in God is not a scientific matter.
·Robert Sapolsky: No. Belief offers something that science doesn’t.
·Jerome Groopman: No. Not at all.
·Keith Ward: No.
·Christoph Cardinal Schönborn: No.
(Remember the above material was written by Michael Shermer not me!)
You can read all of the essays on line or you may order a free print copy by going to http://www.templeton.org/belief/.
The second item was written by Dr. Michael Jarvis, a member of The Clergy Letter Project’s list of scientific consultants. Michael has a Ph.D. in zoology and is from South Africa. He describes his book, entitled God by Evolution, as follows: “Promoting reconciliation, between the scientific evidence for the Big Bang creation, an evolution filled Universe that is billions of years old, and a theistic Christian world view. A radically new insight into the Science vs. Intelligent Design debate.”
4. Another endorsement for The Clergy Letter Project
As I mentioned recently, The United Methodist Church endorsed The Clergy Letter Project and recommended that clergy participate in our activities.
I am now pleased to announce that The People of Abraham have similarly endorsed our efforts. The People of Abraham’s mission statement begins as follows: “The group The People of Abraham, Christians, Muslims and Jews, is an interfaith group, whose mission is to bring understanding and thereby peace, to people of disparate religious faiths and, faith systems.” You can read more about them at Thanks for your continued support. Together we are making a difference.
Michael
Michael Zimmerman
Office of the Dean
College of Liberal Arts and Sciences
Butler University
Indianapolis, IN 46208
Tel: 317.940.9224
Fax: 317.940.8815
Email: mz@butler.edu
Web site for the above post >>>>
http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_resources.htm#Sermons
anti — please note…
“An explosion of this type would have created explosive fountains rising up to 2 km in the water column.”
Key words WOULD HAVE… not DID… see??
Chas the Cartoon Baaaaah-Foon.
Senate confirms Petraeus for Middle East command
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Senate on Thursday overwhelmingly confirmed Army Gen. David Petraeus as commander of the military headquarters responsible for U.S. operations across the Middle East, including Iraq and Afghanistan.
The Senate confirmed him by a vote of 95-2.
It also confirmed 96-1 the nomination of Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno as top commander in Iraq, replacing Petraeus. Odierno, who previously served as Petraeus’ deputy in the war, will be promoted to full general.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKN1040336020080710
Chas, please note…
I DON’T SEE Global Warming.
You’re nonsense, ANTI… obviously nonsense…
Obama jumped on Gramm’s comments. These really isn’t a lick of difference between the two really.
Think about it, Obama doesn’t mind if Iran test missles. McCain opposes it. Sure a difference, but both agree on the foreign policy. Where is the voice that opposes our foreign policy?
Both have different views on the federal gas tax. McCain thinks it will help. Obama opposes it. Another difference on the face of it, but both think that we need a Federal Reserve Bank that prints all the money our Congress needs to spend like wildmen.
Where is the voice that opposes these things? The technicalities of the problem are not what you need to argue about. You need to argue about the root cause. There is no voice opposing these views.
I think we can all agree that there should be a voice for the opposite side of the issues. Remember the Department of Education started by LBJ and the “Great Society”? Republicans hated it, but now it still stays and now they argue about the technicalities.
A sad day for this Republic indeed.
Do you see AIR?? You do breathe, right?? But do you SEE AIR?? Like I said, Nonsense!!
In case anyone else wondered, like I did, here are the dissenting votes.
The Senate vote was 95-2, with Democratic Sens. Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Tom Harkin of Iowa voting against confirmation. Harkin was the sole dissenter in the 96-1 vote to confirm the promotion of Petraeus’ second-in-command, Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, to four-star rank and to replace his boss in Baghdad.
Chas,
I believe in Global Warming. I even think humans may help a it along a little, but the Earth is way more powerful than all humans combined. It will do whatever it wants. We cannot change that. The Earth will also cool down again. We will be long gone when it happens, but you can be rest assured that it will happen. It is not as though the earth will continue to rise in temperature until it is 1000 degrees. THe Earth is smart and will adapt itself to create coller weather.
Humans should want to clean things up, but forcing them to do it is not the way.
Obj… I have no idea why you addressed that to me… But, explain if you must…
A group of black Judas goats calling themselves church leaders are promoting sodomy, abortions, high-failure-rate condoms and contraceptives, and cuts in abstinence-only funding. They met with the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice at Howard University School of Divinity this week. A prominent guest was the schoolroom masturbation enthusiast and defective condom queen, former U.S. Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders.
I just saw that you were talking about Global Warming. I know, it must be a little wierd when someone post a comment to you and doesn’t want to argue. I was just sharing my POV. Take it easy.
Chas:
I wont speak for obj. But even Ben didn’t seem to argue with me when I said:
We are not going to destroy this earth. It may shake us off like a dog shakes off fleas, but we don’t have enough technology to do anything but take about 2% of topsoil off of her. And that’s probably exagerating.
Thanks Obj…
“Ah yes, the Fisters…”
I forget. Were the Libs teaching us a lesson with their “fists of fury” or was it “furry”?
Those were the days, my friend.
When’s the next meet-up? I can hardly wait!
“That was from Steven Davis and his one hand fapping.”
Brilliant argument James McCluer. That is all he has because that is all he has – masturbation insults. But the foregoing is also because he is a devoted mastur-debater.
Obj. your post sounds a little bit like you have a belief in Gaia… The Earth Mother… The living entity, that defends herself… and replenishes herself… A most interesting “Native” approach to environmentalism…
“What is this ‘right thing’ to do that I am not?”
Answer him P_mom, for some reason he will listen to you, at least for a little while.
I think he keeps adding alters to his DID repertoire:
Tough marine,
Sensitive flower, and now
Innocent victim of attacks from the left.
I think he might be ready for graduation onto a daytime soap opera.
I am going to stop now. Nite, all.
I’ll have to read on it. I’ll just add it to my ever growing book list that I can’t keep up with.
I’m reading a good one by Henry Hazlitt called “Economic in One Lesson”. The smartest people in the world can take complicated concepts and simplfy them for others. You should read it.
Are you in favor of forceful cleaning up of the environment? I like to believe that people will fix a problem that they have created once they actually realize it is a problem. You can apply this to anything, not just the environment.
When I say, “realizing it’s a problem”, I don’t mean scientific arguments. Which you get to many varying views on anyway. I’m talking about someone walking outside and physically feeling the hurt from the problem. That is when solutions and innovation thrive.
Arguments about what could happen just lead to misuse or abuse of power, money, and resources. If it is a real problem, you will see ingenuity take over and find a real solution.
I do support cleaning up the earth though. It is a disgrace to see some of the filfth we live in and cause.
Helen Weight is in charge of the meet-up… If you want more information, please, Go to Hel en Weight
SolDevVB posted July 10, 2008 at 2:57 pm
“No lets see, if you heat water under ice, what exactly happens to that ice???
Ask an AGWer – “Nothing”
Logic would tell you otherwise.”
———————
What is not “logical” is ignoring the measured temperature profiles, stratification, Atlantic Water factors, etc.
What is not “logical” is people like SolDevVB insisting that they know more than the scientists who actually research the Arctic ocean.
‘What’s Up With Volcanoes Under Arctic Sea Ice’
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/whats-up-with-volcanoes-under-arctic-sea-ice/
“Go to Hel en Weight”
You blew the joke, dope.
If you mean places like Times Beach, and that other area in Missouri…. OR, places like “old” Lake Erie, or the Chicago River… or the “old” Pittsburgh… YES I am for government cleanup — forced even…
If I am polluting the air in my neighborhood, I would think people would complain… and I would get some kind of notice from the local Health dept. or whatever they call it now….
In fact, they already have something along those lines now in Wichita…..
ANTI posted July 10, 2008 at 4:45 pm
“I DON’T SEE Global Warming.”
———–
Study the global map,
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007/Fig1_2007annual.gif
Go take a cold shower, Fleettwood… might freshen up your brain a little!! LOL
Looks like the S.C. is going to get to void another law:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080710/pl_nm/usa_surveillance_dc_7
Sounds like Graham should read your book on the economy. He sure blew it today.
Global Warming Denier Rules:
- Never defend any of your ridiculous arguments, such as global CO2 being 470 ppm in the 1940’s
- Attack all credible, peer-reviewed scientists, especially if they’re highly credentialed and experienced.
- Repeat the second step
Sound familiar to anyone?
Looks like ROVE is in trouble AGAIN >>>>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_go_co/rove_subpoena;_ylt=AocNkNZdGcuvFhUKoNsQBWQb.3QA
Should be interesting to see him try to weasel out from this one….
Hank and SolDevVB,
Are you going to send lots of money to John Casey?
‘Space and Science Research Center – Issuepedia’
http://issuepedia.org/index.php?title=Space_and_Science_Research_Center&printable=yes
“470 ppm”
Part per Million?
Does 470 even count?
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 12:53 pm | Permalink
MAX… I gave you the reason the Democrats cant get anything done… It’s the republicans… You can read, cant you??
———————————————————————
Oh, Chas admits the Democrat Congress is a DO NOTHING Congress.
And of course, someone else is to blame.
Vote for Me!
I’m a Democrat!
I’ll Do Nothing For You and I Will Not Be Accountable for Nothing!
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink
If more people understood the legislative process, and how things move through Congress, instead of listening to the news hounds, that approval rating would be significntly higher…
——————————————————————–
Yeah, right.
Still waiting for Chas to explain how things move through the DemoRat Congress.
(Maybe Cod Liver Oil would help.)
Nathaniel
Posted July 10, 2008 at 2:49 pm | Permalink
Steven,
How do I beat up on Linda?
——————————————————————-
Because she didn’t listen???
Oh, sorry Nathan.
I thought you were asking WHY, not HOW.
“I gave you the reason the Democrats cant get anything done…”
Doesn’t the minimum wage bill count for anything?
Oh, they did fund the war.
Oh, they didn’t set a timeline. I thought that’s why you people voted for them in ‘06?
Oh well.
“So what was it that I said to you the other night to warrant your telling me that your Granddaughter would have told me to “phuck off””
Your usual Mr. Social Skills repartee.
“When’s the next meet-up? I can hardly wait!”
Never.
Nice try Max… go flame your dimly lit torch somewhere else… I SAID the Dems cant get anything done because the Republicans BLOCK them with their votes… The DEMS dont have enough VOTES to override… Gee, I wish you would clean your glasses……. Maroon!!
Now, Max, I have answered that dumb question twice now… NO MORE… Go flame somewhere else, ok??
fleettwood
Posted July 10, 2008 at 5:53 pm | Permalink
“I gave you the reason the Democrats cant get anything done…”
Doesn’t the minimum wage bill count for anything?
Oh, they did fund the war.
Oh, they didn’t set a timeline. I thought that’s why you people voted for them in ‘06?
Oh well.
—————————————————————-
THAT’S IT!!!
THAT is why they have a 9% Favorable rating!
Can’t wait for the November elections.
“Gee” Chas?
Is that the best you can come up with?
Max, I just said: NO MORE!! Reading problems again??
Great defense of the DemoRat Party Chas!
I’m glad guys like you are on the Dem side.
LOL!!!
ROFLMAO!!!
“Does 470 even count?”
Not to the BDP.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted July 10, 2008 at 5:37 pm | Permalink
Global Warming Denier Rules:
- Never defend any of your ridiculous arguments, such as global CO2 being 470 ppm in the 1940’s
- Attack all credible, peer-reviewed scientists, especially if they’re highly credentialed and experienced.
- Repeat the second step
Sound familiar to anyone?
—————
Well, well, not only does cosmos have to copy information from non peer-reviewed blogs, he has to copy information and style from other posters because cosmos doesn’t have an original thought in his head.
He should have been a journalist.
Wait…
never mind…
Dems in Senate — 51 (if you count Lieberman)
Repukes in Senate – 49
Number votes needed on BIG items: 60
If the reupkes dont vote with the Dems,
Dems cant pass anything!! AND dont have
enough to over-ride Shrub…
Get it MAX???
Flame on MAX… Nobody cares what you think anymore!! ROFLMAO!!!!
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Thank you for providing an example of how my ‘Global Warming Denier Rules’ is done, in your 7:36 pm post.
Global Warming Deniers like multi-nic’d ‘Regular cannot, and should not try to defend their ridiculous arguments, like Beck’s bogus CO2 claims.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted July 10, 2008 at 8:35 pm | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Thank you for providing an example of how my ‘Global Warming Denier Rules’ is done, in your 7:36 pm post.
Global Warming Deniers like multi-nic’d ‘Regular cannot, and should not try to defend their ridiculous arguments, like Beck’s bogus CO2 claims.
———————-
It still makes you a plagiarist.
Which, by the way is all you do with your nauseating posts here on the blog. You plagiarize other people’s work and take credit for it as if you were the scientist that did it.
It’s interesting to go to BBC News and read the comments there from people all over the world. Here is a link to comments about a story titled, “Are Iran and Israel edging towards conflict?”
http://tinyurl.com/6nkggy
“When’s the next meetup?”
We’ll let ya know BDP fleetie.
After it’s over.
Well what did we do today?
Nathan is whining again.
And LOOK what we have from an Obama supporter!
Fear of the “scary terrorists”.
Too much.
#
lindainks55
Posted July 10, 2008 at 9:02 pm | Permalink
It’s interesting to go to BBC News and read the comments there from people all over the world. Here is a link to comments about a story titled, “Are Iran and Israel edging towards conflict?”
http://tinyurl.com/6nkggy
=============================
The UK has a different perspective on things, because they are a island target that is extremely hard to defend.
Imagine if you took the population of Texas, California, throw in some other states, plus the population of Kansas and placed them all into the geographical area of what they call the state of Kansas.
Now, make about 1/3 of Kansas not habitable (mountains in Scotland) and squeeze the entire population of around 60 million into the remaining area.
Imagine everyone’s house being less than three feet from your house on each side and your neighbor’s backyard you can touch with a long broom handle from your back porch.
Welcome to the U.K. (United Kansas) that is, where everyone is up your nose whether you want them to be or not.
Yes, your perspective on life and events will be much different now.
I love it.
It was a few of you who started the “whining” about me “attacking” Linda and now somehow it is I who was whining?
Typical liberal double standards, hypocrisy, and double speak.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ predictably “repeats the second step”, instead of unwisely trying to defend his anti-AGW ridiculous arguments, like Beck’s bogus CO2 claims.
LOL!
“Fear of the “scary terrorists”.”
Childish at best – I guess you would tend to think that they were a wee bit more “scary” if you lived in New York City.
By the way, what is YOUR plan to deal with terrorist’s communications, JR?
Eh?
Clark, I’ll take “Burn a flag in your backyard” for 500
Regular: I’ve travelled the UK often and from your surmise, you haven’t. It is quite a pastoral place and the cities are no more nor less up each other nose than any other metropolitan area. As far being a hard place to defend, you may want to check with ex-Luftwaffe personnel, or recall Napoleon thinking they were a nation of shopkeepers, later to be matched by the Kaiser in 1914 in underestimating the Brits by referring to their Army as contemptible. Those Old Comptemtibles revelled in that slight right to victory into 1918. It isn’t geography one must bear in mind when attacking, it’s the bloody minded people who love their Sceptered Isle. They don’t quit! Rural and pastoral does require huge spaces, you look at it with a uniquely skewered North American concept of space and distance. The UK is the most courteous place I’ve ever been. Check out the Guardian, it’s a very good read with comments from the world as well. http://www.guardian.co. uk
Stop creating terrorists via foreign policy.
“Stop creating terrorists via foreign policy.”
Don’t be so freakin’ naive – our foreign policy contributes to the population of terrorist but is by no means the only contributing factor.
So, J R, what is your plan for addressing terrorism besides pretending that they will just go away if we change our foreign policy?
“our foreign policy contributes to the population of terrorist but is by no means the only contributing factor.”
Please list other contributing factors.
Please tell me how someone decides to be willing to die to kill me for no reason.
Please tell me why I should worry about that when that person is on the other side of the planet.
“Please list other contributing factors.”
Non-Islamic country with secular values.
Perceived or real support for Israel.
Modern society culture and perceived immoral practices.
Western influences in Islamic countries.
Resentment for past perceived wrongs dating back to colonial times.
Jealousy.
“Please tell me how someone decides to be willing to die to kill me for no reason.”
Islamic martyrdom culture provides for a better afterlife, and you are according to Islam, an infidel.
“Please tell me why I should worry about that when that person is on the other side of the planet.”
Muhammad Atta and eighteen others.
If you want to dance this dance WS?
Ya MIGHT want to study up on “Max” or paulie or bush. Ask them if you can borrow some tap shoes.
Guess Max was called back to his/her padded cell… or else, knows when he/she has nothing more to Flame about… Amazing how those CO2 extinguishers work… LOL
Sure was glad to see what sursum posted above… After I read Regular’s spiel about England, I called my old friend in London, and read Regular’s post to him… Not to worry… he works the over-night shift at a hospital trauma center… When he heard what Regular wrote, he LOLOL so much, I thought he would need the Trauma Center Dr. for himself!! Told me to tell Regular if he thinks its so bad, come on over and see for himself!!
Take a trip James… go see for yourself, how far off base you are on England!! Also, talk to sursum…. LOL
……… and support for the Saudi Royal Family and past dictators (including Saddam Hussein) in the Middle East.
“If you want to dance this dance WS?”
I guess that means you don’t have any answers, J R.
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 10:30 pm | Permalink
Sure was glad to see what sursum posted above… After I read Regular’s spiel about England, I called my old friend in London, and read Regular’s post to him… Not to worry… he works the over-night shift at a hospital trauma center… When he heard what Regular wrote, he LOLOL so much, I thought he would need the Trauma Center Dr. for himself!! Told me to tell Regular if he thinks its so bad, come on over and see for himself!!
Take a trip James… go see for yourself, how far off base you are on England!! Also, talk to sursum…. LOL
—————————-
Been to to the U.K. Chas about a dozen times.
I doubt seriously you called anyone in England about my post. Well, you might because you are just rude enough to wake someone up at 5 a.m. in the morning to whine about some minor blog on a minor newspaper in a small state.
Oh, you did say he was working the overnight shift, so he would be working. :)
Oh THIS is going to be delicious!
Obama is gonna chameleon for us on a daily basis.
And SO is WS Clark.
Beware the bonedig WS. I am gonna make such a hypocrite of you.
But let’s start off easy.
“Non-Islamic country with secular values.”
US you mean? And we are here and they are there. Oh yeah, we are there too, and they didn’t invite us.
“Perceived or real support for Israel.”
Oh it’s real alright. It also needs to end.
“Modern society culture and perceived immoral practices”
They are there. We are here.
“Western influences in Islamic countries.”
We are there and they didn’t invite us.
“Resentment for past perceived wrongs dating back to colonial times.”
Yup. And we add to it by the day with our imperial garrisons in Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.
You’ve become a con WS. What a stretch to make for no real reason at all.
“I guess that means you don’t have any answers, J R.”
I just posted them. YOURS sound like they come from “Max” or any of the cons here or …
like those of george w. bush.
James, from what you posted about England, and from what sursum posted about England, and from what my old friend in London says… I would say it looks like you were describing a far different country than they talk about… You sure you werent tallking about one of the Eastern Bloc nations?? Or about New York City, or South Philly, or Downtown Pittsburgh???
“Beware the bonedig WS. I am gonna make such a hypocrite of you.”
Go for it, boy.
“You’ve become a con WS. What a stretch to make for no real reason at all.”
What planet do you live on, J R? Do you even remember 9/11, the first WTC bombings, the attack on the Cole, etc.?
Christ, do you REALLY think that they are just going to go away? They may be few in numbers but their actions and attitudes are real.
Your solution is “they are there, we are here?”
They are HERE you idiot – they live and work among us, just like Atta and his cohorts did.
Honestly, you are just playing a deluded idiot, aren’t you? You can’t truly believe that all of the terrorists are just bearded, sandal-wearing, camel riding, smelly Arabs that live in a far away place?
Damn, there is naive and deluded, then there is just truly ridiculous.
That would be you, J R, truly ridiculous.
BTW, James, it wont be 5 a.m. in London for another 12 minutes… Six Hour time difference…
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 10:44 pm | Permalink
James, from what you posted about England, and from what sursum posted about England, and from what my old friend in London says… I would say it looks like you were describing a far different country than they talk about… You sure you werent tallking about one of the Eastern Bloc nations?? Or about New York City, or South Philly, or Downtown Pittsburgh???
————————-
I’m very sure I have not confused London with Budapest or Edinburgh with the Bronx or Manchester with Philadelphia or any other city in the U.K. with another in the world.
But hey Chas, it’s your lie and spin, feel free to elaborate on its many paths of delusional states.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 4:07 pm
“Global Warming Alarmist Rules:
- Never discuss the technical aspects of Climate Change from an unbiased viewpoint”
————–
What exactly is that “unbiased viewpoint”?
Claiming that since thunderstorm lightning caused forest fires before humans were on Earth, humans cannot cause forest fires?
Oops. . . I meant to say, since nature caused climate changes before humans were on Earth, humans cannot cause climate changes?
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted,
“- Attack the skeptic regardless of his credentials
—————
“Credentials” are important. But it’s more important that the person’s research is credible, and peer-reviewed by a large group of other qualified climate scientists in the same field.
The ridiculous claims from AGW deniers like multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ aren’t even rational.
Science is about the science, not the person(s).
Oh you are going to have all sorts of new pals when this gets out WS.
Maybe you and “Max” can get a group rate on Depends.
Since you are a newly minted bed wetter?
That last could have easily have been posted by “Max” or paulie. It WAS shilled by george w bush.
I am…..sorry for you. You have SO fallen for a candidate that he can do or say anything.
And you will quickly conform yourself, reshape yourself, to justify him.
Are you going to BE in Denver at the stadium?
Obama couldn’t accept the nomination at a convention center.
He WANTED. He NEEDED 80,000 screaming, fainting zealots.
Bahhhh WS. Bahhhhhhh
By the way, J R, since your hatred of me is based on my support for Obama, tell me, what is the significant difference between Obama and Clinton when it comes to addressing terrorism?
And why does it bother you that the FISA bill allows for wiretapping conversations of suspected terrorists?
Anti-American, J R?
Jay, I will admit I share a FEW of your concerns about Obama…. But, realistically now, who else is there to put up for POTUS on the Democrat ticket?? And if we did, what RISK would there be of McShame having the possibility of winning?? Can we afford to take that risk?? Thats the question I keep tossing around… As the ancient Latins might have said, Quo Vadis??
cosmos_originally
Posted July 10, 2008 at 10:49 pm | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 4:07 pm
“Global Warming Alarmist Rules:
- Never discuss the technical aspects of Climate Change from an unbiased viewpoint”
————–
What exactly is that “unbiased viewpoint”?
——————————
This is what Scientists do cosmos. It’s called objectivity.
1. Empiricism
2. Rationalism
3. Skepticism
Cause effect relations are ‘known’ understandings of humans. Humans cannot have ‘unknown’ understandings. So there can be no such thing as ‘unknown cause effect relationships.
Climate Alarmists often fail cause and effect relations because they make conclusion by correlation without knowing all the facts that influence a climate event. Their computer climate models are inaccurate and often used skewed data set to predict an outcome that is missing vital empirical data.
Objectivity in science is the property of scientific measurement that can be tested independent from the individual scientist (the subject) who proposes them. It is intimately related to the aim of testability and reproducibility. To be properly considered objective, the results of measurement must be communicated from person-to-person, and then demonstrated for third parties, as an advance in understanding of the objective world. Such demonstrable knowledge would ordinarily confer demonstrable powers of prediction or technological construction. – Wiki
Thus far, Anthropogenic Global Warming is failing many tests of reproducibility and they have great difficulty in dealing with objective views from a skeptical view. AGW is a politically motivated movement, it is not science.
Damn, you are almost as stupid and delusional as McCluer, J R! What the Hell! You have become the Left’s answer to JM!
Are you sure that you and JM are not one and the same – sounds suspicious to me – J R or J M……….
Separated at birth?
Ha!
So James, if you still doubt human ability to change climate, put a car in a closed garage… turn on the engine… come back in two hours, and tell us how the climate was effected in that garage?? ok??
I don’t hate you WS.
I am sorry and ashamed for you.
Senator Clinton voted AGAINST the bill that Obama pandered and voted for.
And now you play the anti-American card.
I think….well, I think you are lost. Lost in a strange sort of scary wave that I do not understand. Nor do I want to understand or be part of it.
Clark, I’ll take “Burn a flag in your backyard” for 500
If anyone is the other side of the James “Regular” coin WS?
Well it would be you.
Or? At least it used to be.
You two may wish to reconcile.
Since you have, ya know, sold out?
BlueJay is so full of hate, he is just one step from wearing a pillow case for a hat and burning “an enemy’s” (fellow American’s) house down.
Now then, I know full well that the garage scenario is a very small impact area… But I am totally convinced that a similar things happens to the atmosphere, that holds in those toxic gasses, and over time, have made an impact on our environment…
Anybody remember the “acid rains” that were destroying monuments, and other things a number of years ago?? Anybody remember how you could ALMOST Walk on the Chicago river back in the ’60’s??? Anybody remember how terribly polluted the air was in the Pittsburgh area of the “steel valley” of the 50’s and 60’s and early 70’s??? Back BEFORE clean up started?? Before laws had to be enacted to stop the terrible pollution??
I a totally convinced that similar things are happening… at a slower pace… in the entire environment… world wide!!
Anybody want to show that it doesnt happen??
Bi-polar, BlueJay is.
Hey there’s “Anti” WS.
Opinions differ. I think it’s another nic of James.
Several others think it’s a nic of Nathan’s.
Whoever it is? Sounds like a new pal for ya.
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:05 pm | Permalink
So James, if you still doubt human ability to change climate, put a car in a closed garage… turn on the engine… come back in two hours, and tell us how the climate was effected in that garage?? ok??
—————————–
I wouldn’t be worried in the least about carbon dioxide as the body can handle any increases of the situation you mentioned quite easily.
However, carbon monoxide binds itself to hemoglobin which prevents the effective exchange of oxygen at the molecular level.
Carbon monoxide is deadly to humans.
Carbon dioxide intoxication takes huge amounts, so much so that life on the planet would cease to exist if such levels existed.
Why would I use another nic?
You guys already think I’m a crazy religious wacko with this one. What would I need to protect by hiding under a different nic?
Oh yea, we can bring it home too…. Anybody here remember how horrible it used to smell along 21st St, from Broadway, over to at least Mosely or even farther…??? And from 21st St. on the North, down to at least 17th St. on the South?? All of the packing plants… the good ol’ serum plant… Derby refinery… chemical plants… General Mills?? and Pillsbury mills?? and a number of other stinking smelly industries in that area???
So… how does it smell now?? Not nearly as bad… except for the serum plant, when the wind is just right… not nearly what it was like 30-40 years ago!!
BJ, I disagree with many of WSC’s views, however I do favor the view that you are off of your rocker in most of your hateful kook post. You were R then went WAY kook Left….and blame everyone but yourself for your problems…..kind of sounds like pill time.
That was most interesting James… since I DIDNT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT CO2!!! You are a real work of art, mr. spinmeister!!
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Permalink
Now then, I know full well that the garage scenario is a very small impact area… But I am totally convinced that a similar things happens to the atmosphere, that holds in those toxic gasses, and over time, have made an impact on our environment…
Anybody remember the “acid rains” that were destroying monuments, and other things a number of years ago?? Anybody remember how you could ALMOST Walk on the Chicago river back in the ’60’s??? Anybody remember how terribly polluted the air was in the Pittsburgh area of the “steel valley” of the 50’s and 60’s and early 70’s??? Back BEFORE clean up started?? Before laws had to be enacted to stop the terrible pollution??
I a totally convinced that similar things are happening… at a slower pace… in the entire environment… world wide!!
Anybody want to show that it doesnt happen??
————————
I have no argument with that Chas. It’s why I’m against coal plants. Carbon dioxide release is the least of the worries about coal plants.
SO2 and nitrogen oxides are emitted from coal plants in great quantities. They can change the actual pH of water (rain drops) when the pollutants come in contact while airborne.
Like I said, I’m concerned about real pollutants, not co2.
Also concerned that the starving of the world are getting the food taken out their mouths by greedy Alarmists who divert much needed funds that need to go to those in famine and agriculturally poor areas.
I’m not totally convinced yet that CO2 is as bad of a culprit as some make out… I think more in terms of OTHER pullutants in air, and water, etc., etc.
The FISA law has been challenged, maybe the S.C. will uphold the constitution.
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:17 pm | Permalink
That was most interesting James… since I DIDNT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT CO2!!! You are a real work of art, mr. spinmeister!!
—————————
Glad to have educated you Chas.
“Senator Clinton voted AGAINST the bill that Obama pandered and voted for.”
And what would you propose for a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, J R?
Hoping that they go away if we are just nice to them?
“I am sorry and ashamed for you.”
Ha! That is beyond funny.
“And now you play the anti-American card.”
Well, J R, do you think that NYC DESERVED the 9/11 attacks?
“I don’t hate you WS.”
Hmmmmmmmm, now you sound like Nataniel Price, but that can’t be true – you’re not smart enough to be Nathan.
………………. he has an IQ of 63.
Oh it wasn’t me thought “ANTI” was you Nathan.
I was wrong on that one.
I guess I should be flattered since originally “ANTI” was “ANTI JR”?
You have a new friend to meet Nathan.
I give you WS Clark.
“I guess I should be flattered since originally “ANTI” was “ANTI JR”?”
—-
Yes, you should have.
BlueJay,
Not everyone is 100% as far left liberal as you can go.
There is this thing called a political spectrum. People can fall all over it with their different views.
Those on the left do no agree on every little thing, but over all they are on the left.
Same with those on the right.
What you seem incapable of understanding is that you and WS Clark probably agree on at least 80% of the political issues to some degree and you want to burn WS Clark at the stake for the 20% you dont agree on.
The only thing that will happen with that kind of political thinking is that you will end up really lonely with the few people who agree with you 100% on every issue that you have not burned.
Good luck.
It is on you and the chameleon Obama to win the vote for him WS.
How is that working out? Pandering to the right working for him and you is it?
A few weeks ago, Obama led McCain by 12 points.
Now it is down to 4.
“Well, J R, do you think that NYC DESERVED the 9/11 attacks?”
God WS you sound like Rush Limbaugh.
Embarrassing. Just embarrassing.
Honestly, I am sorry for ya Clark.
It has to be difficult defending the indefensible.
But you have new friends who can help ya with that. I’m sorry for you them too.
Well put Nate
“Also concerned that the starving of the world are getting the food taken out their mouths by greedy Alarmists who divert much needed funds that need to go to those in famine and agriculturally poor areas.”
A genuine concern… but my denominational resources tell us that the needed funds and food in those areas of famine, and agricultural blight… are being deprived NOT by greedy Alarmists…. but by the corrupted government officials, and outlaws/rebels in those areas… They steal the food/funds, and then re-distribute the food at greatly hyped prices that the poor cant afford… the poor who were supposed to GET the food as a GIFT… not as a market item…
I believe, James, even the SBC would have those same facts and figures available…
It is apparent that you are going to waaaaaaa-baby for the next twenty years, J R, because your candidate did not run a campaign well enough to get the nomination of her Party, so rather than be a good Democrat and support the Party’s nominee, you are going to do everything within your (meager) power to discredit the winner.
What a spoiled brat you are. Did you waaaaaaaaa-baby when you lost at dodge ball on the playground when you were in Fourth Grade?
Your candidate lost – stop being a big waaaaaaaaa-baby.
If you are going to vote third-party, well then freakin’ do it – just shut up about it and stop being such a sore loser.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-baby.
Damn.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 11:01 pm
“AGW is a politically motivated movement, it is not science.
————-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(science)
Okay multi-nic’d ‘Regular’. . .
Post the “science” and “objectivity” to support E. G. Beck’s bogus CO2 claims, which you have posted on this blog.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/beck-to-the-future
Or just “repeat the second step”, like you’ve always done before. LOL!
And not just MY denominational sources… but Ucc.org; pcusa.org; ucm.org; uua.org; and many others… Check them out on hunger/famine/corruption… Most of their web sites have “search” abilities…
“Well, J R, do you think that NYC DESERVED the 9/11 attacks?”
I couldn’t help but notice that you did not answer the question, JM, er, J R.
Nathan is reaching out to you WS.
Reach back.
This should be really….interesting.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:29 pm | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 11:01 pm
“AGW is a politically motivated movement, it is not science.
————-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(science)
Okay multi-nic’d ‘Regular’. . .
Post the “science” and “objectivity” to support E. G. Beck’s bogus CO2 claims, which you have posted on this blog.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/beck-to-the-future
Or just “repeat the second step”, like you’ve always done before. LOL!
——————————-
I already have posted it and several of the submitters of that compilation were peer reviewed and Nobel Prize recipients. They used empirical scientific methods testing for co2 levels without an agenda of any kind.
Climate change was the furthest thing from their mind, so they had no axe to grind nor did they have any political agenda to push like alarmists do.
BlueJay,
You have far more in common with WS Clark than I do, politically speaking.
Yet you would rather throw him overboard for the few things you disagree on rather than see how much you agree on and seek to work towards those things.
You will never make it far in politics with that kind of an attitude.
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:27 pm | Permalink
“Also concerned that the starving of the world are getting the food taken out their mouths by greedy Alarmists who divert much needed funds that need to go to those in famine and agriculturally poor areas.”
A genuine concern… but my denominational resources tell us that the needed funds and food in those areas of famine, and agricultural blight… are being deprived NOT by greedy Alarmists…. but by the corrupted government officials, and outlaws/rebels in those areas… They steal the food/funds, and then re-distribute the food at greatly hyped prices that the poor cant afford… the poor who were supposed to GET the food as a GIFT… not as a market item…
I believe, James, even the SBC would have those same facts and figures available…
———————–
Yeah, they have that data and as you wrote the biggest difficulties are dealing with usually corrupt local governments or quasi-governments and the distribution of the food.
Being out in the middle of no where with no petrol refilling stations means one has to carry their own fuel. This fuel is a high theft item and doesn’t last long.
It seems you need to be reaching out to “JM” there WS.
I mean it is clear I am not him.
It is NOT clear that you are not.
Who here has MET WS Clark? I haven’t.
Can someone vouch for him?
I also noticed that you have not given us your proposal for foreign intelligence surveillance, J R.
How would YOU handle it?
Or are you still wishing that they would all just go away?
or life.
A guy with your passion (ignorant as it is) could do very good things for himself and child. Why do you waste it BlueJay J R?
It is actually one of the problems with some single issue voters.
I admit, the Pro-Life voters are notorious for doing the same thing.
They get all bent out of shape that a candidate might not be 100% pro-life with them and then they refuse to support that candidate.
Nevermind the fact that the candidate supports about 80% of their views, simply because of one issue they would rather see him lose and end up with a candidate who only supports about 20% of their views.
It is why so many of the same Republicans who can’t stand McCain will still end up voting for him.
Because even though I don’t like McCain all that much and never did, he will still support more of my views than Obama ever will.
Many still try to transport food and medical supplies using animal drawn transport systems… wagons, carts, carriages… even horseback, with heavy saddlebags…
“Who here has MET WS Clark? I haven’t.”
Well, THAT clinches it, it you have not met J R, you don’t exist……………..
Yeah, right.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 11:17 pm
“SO2 and nitrogen oxides are emitted from coal plants in great quantities. They can change the actual pH of water (rain drops) when the pollutants come in contact while airborne.
Like I said, I’m concerned about real pollutants, not co2.”
————–
‘Regular’s scientific knowledge(sic) is very pathetic.
‘CO2 is not the only greenhouse gas, and greenhouse effects are not the only CO2 problem’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/07/co2-is-not-the-only-ghg/
“The second story getting some attention, is the ocean acidification issue. As we’ve discussed previously, the increased take up in the oceans of human-released CO2 is rapidly increasing the acidity (lowering the pH) of the oceans, making it more difficult for many carbonate-producing organisms to produce calcite or aragonite. These organisms include corals, coccolithophores, foraminfera, shell fish etc.”
Links to ocean acidification problem at RC.
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:39 pm | Permalink
Many still try to transport food and medical supplies using animal drawn transport systems… wagons, carts, carriages… even horseback, with heavy saddlebags…
———————-
Ya caravans.
However, I’m not a caravan type of person. :D
If I want to move tons of food over a long distance, I want to get it there as soon as possible without camping for some excessive amount of time in some Warlord’s territory.
Nathan is reaching out to ya WS!
And WS offers,
“, so rather than be a good Democrat and support the Party’s nominee, you are going to do everything within your (meager) power to discredit the winner.”
You mean the presumptive winner don’t you?
The party is not stuck with Obama even if you are stuck on him.
And I’ve made almost NO noise about that. Neither has Senator Clinton.
Senator Clinton did what she had to do for the party.
I don’t have to do anything for Barack Obama or his followers.
BlueJay,
I am making a statement about how politics work. I am not reaching out to WS Clark. Just trying to show you how people with your attitudes don’t make it far in politics.
“Just trying to show you how people with your attitudes don’t make it far in politics”
—-
People with that attitude still travel in caravans.
My word….
I wasn’t even about for the great war between WS and Nathan.
Will I be the one who (unintentionally) brokers the peace?
Nathan is telling what is good about WS.
Next? Will WS be telling me what is good about Nathan?
“I don’t have to do anything for Barack Obama or his followers.”
We greatly appreciate that, J R, please don’t do anything for Barack or us, please, please.
You are the “Kiss of Death.”
Just look what you did for Hillary – the undisputed front runner for the Democratic nomination for president until YOU started supporting her – then she dropped like a stone.
Good job, J R.
“Next? Will WS be telling me what is good about Nathan?”
—–
Will BlueJay swing back to become a Pro-Life Republican again? Stay tuned!
Jay — There are numerous listings for William Clark in the Wichita Area Phone Directories…. I sort of think Clark is his own person… Also, I dont recall ever seeing James post anything about his culinary skills (except for eating, that is)
#
cosmos_originally
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:42 pm | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 11:17 pm
“SO2 and nitrogen oxides are emitted from coal plants in great quantities. They can change the actual pH of water (rain drops) when the pollutants come in contact while airborne.
Like I said, I’m concerned about real pollutants, not co2.”
————–
‘Regular’s scientific knowledge(sic) is very pathetic.
‘CO2 is not the only greenhouse gas, and greenhouse effects are not the only CO2 problem’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/07/co2-is-not-the-only-ghg/
“The second story getting some attention, is the ocean acidification issue. As we’ve discussed previously, the increased take up in the oceans of human-released CO2 is rapidly increasing the acidity (lowering the pH) of the oceans, making it more difficult for many carbonate-producing organisms to produce calcite or aragonite. These organisms include corals, coccolithophores, foraminfera, shell fish etc.”
Links to ocean acidification problem at RC.
——————————————–
Ocean acidification is not judged to be a problem, as indicated by available data. After all, CO2 levels have been up to 20 times the present value during the Phanerozoic Period, the past 500 million years. During this time Earth’s climate has been remarkably stable, with no ‘run-away’ greenhouse effects — indicating strong negative feedback. Fred Singer, PhD, atmospheric physicist.
Herr Clark… There IS one teeny tiny little thing that is bugging me about Obama… WHEN is he going to get all of his campaign staffers on the same page?? He keeps leaving himself wide open to the idiotic pot shots of the Right Wing Radio talk hosts, and their brain dead listeners…
Somebody needs to have a talk with this man about getting down and dirty with those Talk Radio people, like Levin, Savage, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. etc.
Ring? I was wrong.
“ANTI” is Nathan.
WS? I’ll get your word out to Clinton supporters and moderates and the undecided.
Obama does not need,want or respect us.
And for me? I feel the same about him and SOME of his supporters.
Limbaugh is going to have to FESS UP about that mysterious Mr. Snerdly sometime soon… He has had that little imaginary friend with him, since his days(short lived) in Pennsylvania… He needs to tell people…. SOON if he knows whats good for him… that Snerdly doesnt exist… And the same way with callers that appear to “disagree” with him… He needs to tell people some time soon, that he never takes calls from people who disagree…. they are just secretaries and staffers working off of scripts… LOL
BlueJay
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:59 pm | Permalink
Ring? I was wrong.
“ANTI” is Nathan.
——
You are always wrong, this is no different.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 10, 2008 at 11:33 pm
“I already have posted it and several of the submitters of that compilation were peer reviewed and Nobel Prize recipients. They used empirical scientific methods testing for co2 levels without an agenda of any kind.
Climate change was the furthest thing from their mind, so they had no axe to grind nor did they have any political agenda to push like alarmists do.
————–
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ is 100% correct:
“Climate change was the furthest thing from their mind….
They were JUST measuring CO2, in areas that had ELEVATED CO2 levels due to human influences.
But other climate scientists realized that GLOBAL CO2 levels could only be accurately measured at sites not contaminated by human influences
E. G. Beck’s CO2 claims are a joke.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/beck-to-the-future
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s anti-AGW posts are pathetic jokes.
#
Chas
Posted July 10, 2008 at 11:54 pm | Permalink
Jay — There are numerous listings for William Clark in the Wichita Area Phone Directories…. I sort of think Clark is his own person… Also, I dont recall ever seeing James post anything about his culinary skills (except for eating, that is)
————————-
I don’t barbecue anymore because I don’t have barbecue equipment. :)
I cooked and prepared many a barbecue in my lifetime with no complaints. From deer to brisket, stuffed quail to duck, chicken to squab, brisket, sausages, burgers, wursts, hot dogs, corn, kabobs and more items than I can remember.
I was making things like potato salad by the time I was ten years old watching my mother and grandmother, it’s not a big feat. Also baked beans, home made sour dough bread.
I can make a lot of things, I just don’t brag about my cooking. I just eat it. :)
“Obama does not need,want or respect us.”
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-baby.
Too bad, Obama doesn’t kiss your ass, too bad, so sad, see ya’ JR.
ANTI is just plain FAKE, Jay… dont waste your time on that one… :roll:
Chas, BlueJay- I am Mr. Snerdly….Yeah it is true, also I must confess I have been making things in your refrigerator moldy…sorry about that…Anyway, you sneaky bastards got me!
Zip it up and Zip it out!
FAKE Jay… ignore it… just totally FAKE!!!
cosmos_originally
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:02 am | Permalink
But other climate scientists realized that GLOBAL CO2 levels could only be accurately measured at sites not contaminated by human influences.
—————————————
Oh really cosmos?
And where would that be? According to you and Ben, all co2 is well-mixed and so it doesn’t really matter where you go to sample, you’ll get the same levels.
Besides, aren’t human influences on co2 levels is what you are looking for cosmos?
I mean, either it is or it isn’t that you are concerned with human co2 levels.
You can’t haven’t it both ways.
So cosmos, are co2 levels well mixed or aren’t they?
You and Ben claim a global mixing level, now you need to stick to it.
No Obama kisses con ass WS Clark.
And so do you.
And no one knows or can vet you.
Like with Obama?
Damn, James… Now I do believe you have made a claim at expertise at ALMOST everything posted on this Blog!!!
Totally amazing…. NOT!!! LOL
#
Chas
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:07 am | Permalink
FAKE Jay… ignore it… just totally FAKE!!!
—-
Like a fake preacher Chas?
For those of you with a perverse interest in me – I am not in the phone book – anywhere.
I will tell you this much – my name is William Stephenson Clark, born in Knox County, Kentucky, I am 56 years old, 5′ 10″ and 195#. I have three children and two and 5/9’s grandchildren. I am obstentially a white male, but in truth, I am multi-cultural, being European, Jewish, African and Native American.
But you won’t find me in the phone book, but you can reach me at WSClark52@gmail.com.
Feel free to drop me an e-mail……………….
For the readers, BlueJay used to be a “Con”…That has got to sting….Tisk
CLARK??? I really would love to have a sample… even a small one… of your mouth watering RIBS… Also, my wife LOVES them… I am not so good at cooking those… but she LOVES them!!! And she cant cook any longer… Soooo… put me on your charity list, OK??? THANKS!!!
“And no one knows or can vet you.”
What is there to “vet?”
Do ya’ want my freakin’ resume?
Off to swap strategy with Nathan “ANTI” there WS?
Now, in Kansas, my vote does not matter anyway.
But for those whose votes DO matter?
We have two panderers. One is addicted to love.
The other is just plain crazy.
But we are not stuck with the one addicted to love.
I guess James’ meeting with the mighty publishers didnt get on the schedule… I see he hasnt BRAGGED about it any more… Guess they didnt have time, eh??
Funny thing… I can get in to see those folks any time I want… Maybe it has something to do with Credentials?? :-|
Good night all
“I really would love to have a sample… even a small one”
Next time I smoke a batch, Chas, I will drop off a slab for you and your lovely wife. It may be a bit, but certainly before the summer is over.
I have your addy, so don’t shoot the old hippy-biker dude that shows up at your door with a tin foil-wrapped package!
#
Chas
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:10 am | Permalink
Damn, James… Now I do believe you have made a claim at expertise at ALMOST everything posted on this Blog!!!
Totally amazing…. NOT!!! LOL
———————-
What is surprising that I can cook? It’s not a genius chore. I do need to eat and prepare my own meals.
I wouldn’t rate my cooking as worthy of any prizes, but I’ve had no complaints about it over the years.
Hunting and fishing makes one a better food preparationist as well. As they have to skin, gut and clean the varmint before it is cooked. Nothing better than some fresh trout or some campfire-cooked rattlesnake with some zesty frijoles. :)
Where is your FISA plan, J R?
What ares the differences between the terrorist related policies of Clinton and Obama?
Until you can answer those questions, your cheap shots are just more J R verbiage, J R.
And we all know what J R verbiage is worth………..
ANTI is a fake y’all… just pure 100% FAKE!!
ANTI — The Eagle has my credentials… And my Judicatory Exec’s name and number as well…
ANTI is a total 100% FAKE!!!
Just Scroll Over… How sad… very sad…
WS Clark,
Chas doesn’t believe in using guns. You might ask him to not hide behind the door with his bayonet and stab you though.
LOL
That is why every time one of the bozo’s on this Blog posts that I am a fake preacher, they are posting a libelous LIE… Guess their version of GOD likes LIARS!! LOL
#
Chas
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:21 am | Permalink
That is why every time one of the bozo’s on this Blog posts that I am a fake preacher, they are posting a libelous LIE… Guess their version of GOD likes LIARS!! LOL
————————-
You never did answer this Chas.
Why would the Eagle have your certifications and why would they care to keep them?
Oh yea, that reminds me, I need to get my brand new NO GUN sticker out and put it on the back window of my car, and one on my house too!! LOL Maybe I will do that tomorrow sometime… Just in time for the weekend…
What is “WS” worth?
NO ONE knows him. No one has met him.
And he sure did some damned fast shill adjustment for Obaaaaama.
So, Nathan, how many of the Bust Buy managers have you threatened with your CC weapon?? to get them to take down (allegedly) their NO GUNS stickers??
“Why would the Eagle have your certifications and why would they care to keep them?”
What time is our meeting with the WE publishers, JM?
It is on Monday, isn’t it?
I still haven’t received an e-mail, but I assume that you have set a meeting, right, McCluer?
I am looking forward to it – I have a BUNCH of your posts copied for the occasion.
Ha!
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Are you claiming that a 1000 ppm CO2 level on a busy city street, or near a coal-fired plant, is a “well-mixed” GLOBAL level?
Well, if you cant figure that out, James, then that would be one area you arent claiming expertise in, wouldnt it??
“No one has met him.”
And that means what………………….
Chas,
I never threatened anyone.
#
Chas
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:29 am | Permalink
Well, if you cant figure that out, James, then that would be one area you arent claiming expertise in, wouldnt it??
———————
Or, you could just answer the question if you have nothing to hide.
And wit that bit of frivolity, I am out of here – heavy schedule tommorow – bathroom project – see ya’all – sleep well.
And J R, please work on your version of FISA and get back to me.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
#
cosmos_originally
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:29 am | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Are you claiming that a 1000 ppm CO2 level on a busy city street, or near a coal-fired plant, is a “well-mixed” GLOBAL level?
————————————
You and Ben are the one claiming well-mixed co2 levels at these remote stations, not me.
co2 levels on the street perimeters where the is traffic can vary widely when samples are taken inside a ground floor office building.
““No one has met him.”
And that means what…”
Oh I don’t know.
Here is Nathan defending you to me.
Hereabouts is “Regular” who you would usually be in an all night battle with.
And here is “you” WS who NO one knows, attacking me.
And here is you also shilling for Obama as he panders to the right.
And here ALSO was you some time ago advocating that the progressives abandon the blog.
What is up with you WS?
Never mind Nathan… you wouldnt understand it if I tried to explain to you how you theatened store managers… IF you even talked to them… But thats OK… And my question was HOW MANY did you threaten??
I have to sleep too.
In whatever capacity and respect I have earned here?
I vote no confidence as to “WS Clark”
That “person” makes an awful lot of noise here. And no one has ever vetted him.
But Nathan tried…..
Hmmmmmmm……
Well, tomorrow is Friday, and I have a number of appointments…. SO….
Good night; good luck; and God bless —
Whatever you conceive Got to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
And Nathan, I am GONE NOW… Dont leave a message directed at me until tomorrow, ok??
So mote it be!!
Chas,
I know what the question was, it was a loaded question.
I still tried to give you an answer though.
How can I tell you how many store managers I have threatened when I have not threatened any of them?
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 12:37 am
“co2 levels on the street perimeters where the is traffic can vary widely when samples are taken inside a ground floor office building.”
—————
I do not understand what that sentence means re the well-mixed, GLOBAL CO2 levels in all of Earth’s atmosphere.
Can Hank, Nathaniel, Sol, or the other AGW deniers here understand that? Translation, please?
It’s irrational. . . just like multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s other irrational arguments against AGW, and about CO2.
‘Acidifying Oceans Add Urgency To Carbon Dioxide Cuts’
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080703140716.htm
‘Carbon Emissions and Acidification’
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/321/5885/51
“Avoiding environmental damage from ocean acidification requires reductions in carbon dioxide emissions regardless of climate change.”
‘The Acid Ocean – the Other Problem with CO2 Emission’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/07/the-acid-ocean-the-other-problem-with-cosub2sub-emission/
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fred_Singer
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 12:37 am
“co2 levels on the street perimeters where the[re] is traffic can vary widely when samples are taken inside a ground floor office building.”
———–
“the” = “there”?
I guess that multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ means that:
1) The CO2 levels “inside a ground floor office building” are very different than the “co2 levels on the street perimeters where the[re] is traffic”.
2) The windows of the “ground floor office building” are opened “when samples are taken inside”, causing “co2 levels on the street perimeters where the[re] is traffic” to “vary widely”.
Meanwhile you have your friends do all you dirty work without one word from you on what they do here even though it is far worse than the crap you feign indignance over.
Project much, Nathan?
Anon1,
Your 3:10 p.m. post? Bullseye!
cosmos_originally
Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:56 am | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 12:37 am
“co2 levels on the street perimeters where the is traffic can vary widely when samples are taken inside a ground floor office building.”
—————
I do not understand what that sentence means re the well-mixed, GLOBAL CO2 levels in all of Earth’s atmosphere.
——————————
Prove that there is a global co2 level that is well-mixed from all sources of co2 of the planet. Prove it.
What the sentence means that you referenced is that co2 levels vary widely all over. If it didn’t then why did Ben make the claim that some samples taken near industrial areas might be bogus because of increased co2 levels?
If cosmos’s remote co2 testing stations only get consistent co2 levels, then they are not being affected by any other source, but local conditions. This means natural co2, no human influenced co2.
If cosmos and Ben claim they are being influenced by human co2, then the tests from these locations are invalid, because they have been tainted from a nearby source of human co2.
co2 from Russia is not going to float down to some mountain top testing location in North Carolina.
The co2 tested will be local and not globally mixed.
All the ground, ocean and other sinks plus co2 exchange from plants vary too widely from one region to another for their to be a global mix of anything.
It is exactly why there are varied regions, that they exist. Deserts exist because the local conditions are prime for deserts. Jungles exists because they are prime for jungles to exist.
Yet cosmos and Ben state that all conditions are identical everywhere and co2 is well mixed, so a standard can be measured.
Total bunk. co2 varies from location to location, due to altitude, time, temperature, relative humidity and many other factors including type of ground and water sinks.
There is no median temperature as there is no such thing as a constant thermostat. Temperature ebbs and flows just as the oscillations of the North Atlantic and El Nino oscillate from year to year.
All natural climate variation.
Claims about the northwest passage being open for the first time because of melted ice due to man made global warming. Hogwash! The northwest passage has been opened several times in recorded history. This means the arctic ice has melted before.
Hansen’s ground temperature stations provide him a convenience he can plug into his inaccurate computer climate models. However, Hansen looks with great fear at the satellite temperatures which are much more accurate and they show a cooling climate.
What’s ironic is that Hansen works for NASA who launches the satellites.
Hansen was ‘fer’ satellites until he was ‘agin’ them.
#
Anon1
Posted July 10, 2008 at 3:10 pm | Permalink
Oh, for Pete’s sake, drop the AGW debate already. Accept that you aren’t going to agree and get the hell over it.
The climate IS changing. I don’t think any of you can dispute that. But you latch on to this idead that Global Warming must mean things are getting hotter. Global Warming is a generic term referring to the changes in the earths climate as a result of outside stimulus, both man made and not.
I don’t understand the huge debate. It certainly isn’t going to hurt anything if we take an interest in our environment and make efforts to “clean” things up and conserve energy sources. If it doesn’t help AGW, well it will certainly help us personally. So really, what do you care? Why the huge debate on it? Both sides get rather rabid rather ridiculously. And BTW, to purposely instigate an argument and then claim it’s the other sides fault, well that is just childish. We should all strive to do better for our environment, regardless of the potential effect on AGW, but simply to BETTER OUR LIVES. (Oh and the whole decreasing our dependancy on oil can’t hurt anything, either – well, except for Bush’s pocketbook)
================================
The big debate is because the AGW folks want to impose taxes on something they cannot control, the climate.
Natural climate variation has occurred since the planet was new. Al Gore has used what he thought was the perfect control mechanism for power, the climate.
When he got his reigns jerked, his shill scientists who are paid mouthpieces of on going grants vested in man-made global warming only, started forming alliances for job preservation. Instead of doing objective science, these alarmists are hip deep in biased science that is not really science.
Climate alarmism is correlation without cause and effect. When the alarmist can’t get the effect they want, they plug in another scenario based cause into their computer to get that cause.
When they don’t see the causes they want, they create an effect in their computer climate models without empirical data (they make it up.)
I believe in energy conservation and preparation for it as much as the next guy. We certainly don’t need some World Bank financed organization such as the climate alarmists to tell the countries how to run their businesses or their economies.
Yet, this is exactly what the climate alarmists want to do. They want to control every aspect of your life that involves energy.
The climate alarmism that is going on is a power thing. You should be very wary of it. It’s not about climate change it’s about controlling people, economics and policies of all countries.
Don’t believe me? Then look at all the scare tactics that the climate hooligans use. Sound familiar? Scare people so they become good little sheeple and follow along.
They’ll tell you to disregard the past millions of years, where there has been much warmer and much colder temperatures. Remember the ice ages? How about all those tropical climates that existed on U.S. soil where huge dinosaurs roamed?
You don’t think there has been horrific climate change before? Go look at some woolly mammoth bones or some huge eighty foot dinosaur skeleton in a museum and convince yourself of that.
Of course there has been extraordinary climate change before.
You know what the alarmist are claiming? They are saying temperatures have risen 1.4 degrees over the past 100 years.
So what? In some time periods before man was of age the temperature has risen 2.5 degrees and in others it has fallen 3.5 degrees.
Climate alarmism is a ruse disguised as science. It’s a power game and you don’t want them to win, trust me. These same kooks will find other reasons to control your life if you do.
Anon1
Posted July 10, 2008 at 3:49 pm | Permalink
Sol,
I find that I am bit more concerned with the billions we are pumping into a useless war and billions more we spend appeasing big business on useless things than I am on spending money on something, that again, can’t hurt us, but even if it doesn’t stop Global Warming (which of course it won’t because global warming isn’t a static effect, but irregardless) will STILL help other aspects of the environment and our every day life.
But to pick the environment as the one unacceptable area when there are so many more that are costing us so much more, that seems rather close minded. If you are going to harp on our ridiculous spending habits, make sure you harp on EVERYTHING, please, and not just discount global warming simply because YOU don’t believe it and therefore it must be a waste of money. SOMETHING is affecting our environment and our climate. I would rather spend money finding out what that is so that we can perhaps combat it, than many of the other things this nation so needlessly spends money on.
We took our child to see WALL-E when it came out. Don’t know if you’ve seen it. Very cute movie. Yes, I know it’s fiction and it’s animated. But look up what it’s premise is. It makes some very interesting points that, while not likely to happen in the immediate future, if we don’t change the way we do things now, will likely happen in the somewhat forseeable future – something that I don’t want for my descendants. Do you want it for yours?
***Just for you Regular – I didn’t feel like retyping it!
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted March 5, 2008 at 4:36 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/beware-of-global-cooling-hype/#comment-307608
“Ever did a measurement of co2 in an office building? On a street level entry point to an office building, co2 can go up in the range from 1000 to 2000ppm.”
—————
Maybe multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s theory for why global CO2 was 470 ppm in the 1940’s is that humans had built (leaky) office buildings and streets far up into Earth’s atmosphere then? Even over the oceans, which cover a large part of the Earth.
And then humans later removed all of those building and streets from the atmosphere, causing Earth’s global CO2 level to rapidly fall.
#
cosmos_originally
Posted July 12, 2008 at 12:31 am | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted March 5, 2008 at 4:36 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/beware-of-global-cooling-hype/#comment-307608
“Ever did a measurement of co2 in an office building? On a street level entry point to an office building, co2 can go up in the range from 1000 to 2000ppm.”
—————
Maybe multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s theory for why global CO2 was 470 ppm in the 1940’s is that humans had built (leaky) office buildings and streets far up into Earth’s atmosphere then? Even over the oceans, which cover a large part of the Earth.
And then humans later removed all of those building and streets from the atmosphere, causing Earth’s global CO2 level to rapidly fall.
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You just wrote recently that co2 is collected at ground stations around the world. Are those stations in the atmosphere?
You can go to any Website that monitors co2 for buildings and find out the co2 level, it’s not a mystery or a government secret.
It’s a data collection method used by environmental engineers to check on air flow and the mechanics of ventilation systems.
cosmos is not a scientist.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Do you not understand the meaning of the word “maybe”?
Can you explain why you believe that global CO2 was 470 ppm in the 1940’s. No? . . . Why not?
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/beck-to-the-future
James McCluer also known as Regular among several dozen other nics….
is not a scientist either.
He is an on welfare, former sanitary engineer, astronaut trainer, commended by some governor or other for changing their tire on Christmas eve…
Lunatic.
I’ve seen him. A long unkempt beard. Looks as if he had not bathed in days.
Now I’m not bashing that on him. But folks I have met LIKE him in appearance and circumstance?
Well. They are not so…. haughty.
Or judgemental.
Or insane.
Good night.
cosmos_originally
Posted July 12, 2008 at 12:46 am | Permalink
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Do you not understand the meaning of the word “maybe”?
Can you explain why you believe that global CO2 was 470 ppm in the 1940’s. No? . . . Why not?
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There is no claim to global co2 being at 470ppm.
Yes, I believe the measurement of co2 taken by that particular scientist was close to 500ppm.
The scientists back then had no global warming agenda to bastardize their science.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 12, 2008 at 1:06 am
“There is no claim to global co2 being at 470ppm.
Yes, I believe the measurement of co2 taken by that particular scientist was close to 500ppm.
The scientists back then had no global warming agenda to bastardize their science.”
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Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Name your source for YOUR claim that in the 1940s it was above 400 ppm.
Was it E. G. Beck? Someone else?
‘Regular’ aka Republican posted April 16, 2007 at 12:01 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/is_there_a_carb/#comment-253676
“By the way, the Consensus Scientists don’t use the early Flask Data available because it is inconvenient.
The CO2 levels have not reached 400 ppm yet, but in the 1940s it was above 400ppm with lower temperatures. And before Cosmos or anyone says that the data is incorrect. The Consensus Scientists only examined 10 percent of the data and gave it a less than 1 percent on average inaccuracy rate.
That means by looking at the Flask Data prior to 1970, there were 13 occasions were CO2 was as high or higher than it is today with lower temperatures.
The GW Alarmists don’t like using the old Flask Data because they say it was pulled near cities where we live. Yeah okay, I don’t know any size population that lives in Antarctica or on top of a Volcano either. That’s where the Alarmists pull their samples.
Duh, imagine pulling samples where we actually live. (shrugs)”
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Samples should represent well-mixed GLOBAL CO2 levels.
Most humans do not live in the atmosphere.
cosmos_originally
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:52 am | Permalink
Samples should represent well-mixed GLOBAL CO2 levels.
Most humans do not live in the atmosphere.
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So all of these co2 stations around the world are suspended in the air and not close to any geological formation?
This is all balloon data then that you are giving.
Otherwise, the samples you bring up are not taken in the air either, but from elevated planks which is near geological formations.
How can samples be well-mixed when they are close to co2 emitted ground, water and plant life?
Well mixed indeed, not likely. Well mixed with what, the co2 coming from my backyard? How many parts per million of co2 am I influencing the Mauna Loa co2 collection site?
Do all these molecules of co2 someone how travel on guided streams of air current, wait their turn in line and become evenly mixed through magical co2 equilibrium of alarmist gas laws?
I don’t think so.
The only thing that is happening at these sample stations that read nearly identical co2 levels is that they are calibrated as non-empirical samples.
In other words, they are submitted as bona fide samples the calibration gas, plus some imaginary weasel factors that the alarmist have dreamed up.
Instead of using actual data from actual sites where human lives, the alarmists have purified and indemnified virginal co2 levels literally out of thin air.
honestly liked finding your text – good job, keep it up!!