President Bush likes to call himself a “wartime president,” but Fareed Zakaria, in a smart column, debunks the whole idea that the United States is “at war” and needs a wartime president:
“It is by now overwhelmingly clear that al-Qaida and its philosophy are not the worldwide leviathan that they were once portrayed to be. Both have been losing support over the last seven years. The terrorist organization’s ability to plan large-scale operations has crumbled, their funding streams are smaller and more closely tracked. Of course, small groups of people can still cause great havoc, but is this movement an ‘existential threat’ to the United States or the Western world? No, because it is fundamentally weak. Al-Qaida and its ilk comprise a few thousand jihadists, with no country as a base, almost no territory and limited funds. Most crucially, they lack an ideology that has mass appeal. They are fighting not just America but the vast majority of the Muslim world. In fact, they are fighting modernity itself.”
In short, we’re not at war, and we don’t need a “wartime president.”
157 Comments
We are at war. I will never marginalize Al Qaida. But I also think we need a president who will listen to advisers and change course as needed, and who will be honest with the American people.
That isn’t coming from the republicans representing right now.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ….
completely enjoyed reading this thread, thanks for sharing this text
For some time now I have been stating that there was no declaration of war by Congress so G.W. Bush is not a war time President. As such he does not have the sweeping power he claims and his actions are not based in law. it is the same as the war of drug, the war on poverty and ever other in name only war.
Al-Qaeda as the article states is a law enforcement issue and should be handled as such. Al-Qaeda is mosquitoes and using the military as the prime method to handle them is like fighting the tiny pest with a shotgun. When someone dies of West Nile virus the local government does not have the Police go around in riot gear and shooting everything that moves. Only about 20 percent of what the Bush Administration has done is to fight terrorism. The rest was using a opportunity to fulfill their plans as they seen fit.
if you read up on the history of those extremist movement they are self destructive falling under their own weight and tactics. They become a game of whom is the most extreme and stop trusting each other and end up fighting amongst themselves. And no this country is not at war, no more then we were with the other “war on…” me-me’s I listed above.
Al Quada is just a convenient enemy- or bogeyman if you will- for the Republicans. The Republicans have nothing else they can run on. They cannot run on good government or economics because they have wrecked both. What have they accomplished in 8 years? Nothing! While the rest of the world- places such as China and India- are moving ahead, we are falling behind. So yes we need a “peacetime” President that will slash the military and use the money to better this country and benefit its people as well as to at least try to balance the budget. As for Al Quada, they should be- and should have been- dealt with by US Special Forces- who should have been sent after 9/11 to kill them and their commanders. It is kind of stupidly funny- we have killed alot of people but Ben Laden is still alive and well.
This same Zakaria wrote in a magazine article a few years ago that Islamic Fundamentalism was, in essence, finished because it didn’t have the support of most muslims. This to me is an observation right in line with the claim a couple of years ago by a certain Administration shill that the Iraqi insurgency was on its last legs.
Are we at war? Mere semantics will not be a determining factor. President Truman said that Korea was a “police action.”
Ask a veteran of Iraq, particularly a seriously wounded one, if we are at war.
And, as has been said many times before, you don’t wage war against a tactic. You don’t wage war against a philosophy. You wage war against people.
Whether al Qaeda is a legitimate threat to Western Civilization or not is a reasonable discussion. 9/11 was lightning in caught in a bottle for al Qaeda. I don’t believe any of them in their wildest dreams thought they would achieve the total collapse of the WTC. Airplanes have been running into skyscrapers for more than fifty years and only two of ‘em have collapsed.
The so-called “al Qaeda in Iraq” took the name, like your kid’s little league team calls themselves the “Yankees.” Same name; not the same thing.
Does al Qaeda pose a threat? Maybe, sort of. The Symbionese Liberation Army posed a threat, too, sort of.
In the meantime, Osama bin Laden still has his job. Do you?
Oh good. We’re not at war.
But what was that talk about creating all those jihadists from the battl…er, soccer fields of Iraq?
Or you could look at it this way. The US, and a coalition of allies, led by this president, was successful in taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they were and diminished their base, their funding etc…
The Iraq “games”, or whatever it is, have defined this president.
Seems a silly distinction to try to make.
“…is this movement an ‘existential threat’ to the United States or the Western world? No, because it is fundamentally weak. Al-Qaida and its ilk comprise a few thousand jihadists, with no country as a base, almost no territory and limited funds.”
And it needs to be kept that way, in fact they need to be hunted down and exterminated from the face of the Earth. They have been effective in multiple deadly and disruptive acts around the world and in seriously impacting economies negatively.
Randy, your head is so seriously cocked to the left you can’t even perceive the world clearly, or the dangers that await.
Phantom enemies, uncatchable and ever-elusive. Perpetual war for our progeny to fight and to pay our bills to the warlords.
We’ve always been at war with East Asia.
“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-James Madison
“Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
-Hermann Goering (Second in command of the Third Reich)
We are at war against terrorists and always will be, Al Quaeda is just part of it. The next President had better stand up and fight the war against terroristism with all our might. I don’t want them in my lap.
Right, “george” –
Osama bin Laden wants nothing except to get in your lap.
“9/11? That was just a preliminary.
“On to ‘george’s’ lap!”
We are WINNING the war on terror.
Count on a liberal to tell us that our success, in that war, somehow “proves” that the war is not necessary.
Kind of reminds me of the liberals who claimed we did not need to have so many people in prison, since our crime rate was way down!
After 9/11, Bush conveniently blamed everything on Al-Qaida, even going so far as tell us OBL was in bed with Sadaam in Iraq. Most of it turned out to be nothing but bs perpetrated by this administration. But guess where it all led? Yeppers, right into the invasion of Iraq. Try telling them we ain’t at war.
Now Iraq wants a timetable for us getting out, and the same bs administration waffles. Iraq has been an open training ground for terrorist organizations, and will continue to be long after we’re gone. But good ol’ boy bush done did his job: kilt the man that done threatened his daddy. Now if the fat lady could just find her voice and sing, we could go about the business of getting out of Iraq, protecting this countries rights and people.
The Veterans Administration is the recognized authority for determination of whether or not a conflict was authorized by Congress, or not.
From the time that Iraq invaded Kuwait, under George H. W. Bush, through all 8 years of Bill Clinton, to today, under George W. Bush, we have been in a Congressionally authorized war.
Veterans who served during this period of time qualify for benefits that non-declared war vets are not qualified to receive.
JM
So you think it is perfectly OK for a foreign government to plot the death of a United States President, and to act on that plot?
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Franklin
Posted July 12, 2008 at 9:27 am | Permalink
JM
So you think it is perfectly OK for a foreign government to plot the death of a United States President, and to act on that plot?
==============================================
Please feel free to take your strawman arguments elsewhere. You’re an idiot in my book, and I tend to avoid idiots.
Good morning Dr. Scholfield,
Were your putting your pants on backwards this fine July morning as well?
JM
You obviously don’t understand what the term “straw man argument” really means.
If I were using a “straw man” I would errect some argument or statement or position, claim that was your position, and then knock down that “straw man”.
In this case, it is clear for all to see that YOU accused George W. Bush of going after Saddam because of Saddam’s attempt to murder George H.W. Bush.
That is not a “straw man argument” — instead, it is a rebuttle question that you can not answer without looking rather stupid.
Okay, bozo, I’ll take you up on that: “JM
So you think it is perfectly OK for a foreign government to plot the death of a United States President, and to act on that plot?”
Nowhere did I say anything about that, I revered to Bush going after the man who threatened his daddy. It was and is strictly a family thing, IMHO. Which makes your argument strawman: “If I were using a “straw man” I would errect some argument or statement or position, claim that was your position, and then knock down that “straw man””. You are still an idiot. Learn to read.
So pardon me (or don’t, I really could care less) if I refuse to answer any more you your idiot questions.
bush LIKES having other people be “at war”.
When he had the chance himself to be “at war”?
He took a pass.
But, the morons who support bush, they can be “at war” if they want. Our poor troops have no choice but to be “at war” or “at occupation” or “at nation building” or to be honest? “At the securing of great amounts of money for big oil and big business”.
Me? I’m not “at war”. Well, not in the sense bush and his moron supporters are.
Oh and John McBush? You can’t have MY son for your war either. And neither can you Barack.
Now we’re over there to defend and retaliate against assassination attempts (or threats)? We do that assassination stuff all of the time, Bhutto for instance? And yeah, I’m insinuating that we (CIA/ISI) did that one. She threatened to stabilize our created chaos and oust a dictator general, installed by US. She threatened to find out things she should not find out.
Hey paulie?
Dig out your old uniform.
Get it let out. And YOU go be “at war”.
Whether we were ever “at war” or not, we can leave up to the hair-splitters. One thing is certain, though: What we’re doing in Iraq is nothing more or less than a full-scale military occupation. Period.
Okay,
Al Queda HATED Saddam - almost as much as they hate the US. They did NOT have a significant presence in Iraq until after WE stuck our noses in where they didn’t belong, ousted Saddam, and gave them yet another excuse for hating us, and firmly ensconced themselves over there. You want to get all fired up about how we have to be in Iraq to fight Al-Queda? You idiots, we put them there!
We should have been in Afghanistan ALL ALONG, fighting the real threat, where they really were. Instead, Bush rushed us headlong into a war we didn’t need to be in (to protect his Daddy or for Big Oil, your choice), and promptly FORGOT about Bin Laden (his words), who, by your arguments about why we need to be in a war, is the REAL threat anyways.
A war in Afghanistan, I could stand behind. This misbegotten farce of a war in Iraq? I feel sorry for our soldiers who have to put their lives on the line so Bush could make more money.
By the way, Monkeyhawk has it right. You can’t fight an ideal or philosophy, you will never be able to win. There has to be a human presence to said ideal or philosophy - THAT’s the only way to successfully “win” a war. We can’t be fighting a “war on terror” because terror isn’t tangible. We CAN fight a war on terrorists, i.e. Al Queda, because they are a human force behind the ideal and therefore able to engage in battle. But an ideal is not.
I seem to miss congress ever declaring war.
How in the hell do you know when you’ve won a “War on Terror”? Answer me that, you brainiac, Neo-Con Bush/McCain apologists…and you lost Obama/Clinton people too. Tell me when we’ll know we’ve won.
…Jeopardy theme music…
Good Luck.
Israel is busy trying to create enemies for the United States to fight.
But in order to qualify to be an “enemy,” you must first have oil.
African countries which do not have any oil are not qualified to be “enemies.”
Saddam’s Iraqi government and Al Queda DID have contacts with one another.
Saddam had murals of the twin towers painted on his military buildings, with an Iraqi airplane flying into them!
Saddam was a “State Sponsor of Terrorism” according to the Clinton White House.
Lick those boots.
There’s a reason why SOME of us want OTHERS of us to be at war.
Money.
Through contracting ALL but the fighting out to private enterprise, well we have made “war” into a for profit venture!
Hey fine by me. But since there’s no profit for me in it? I think I’ll sit it out. Let others put their mouths where their money is.
Nevermind the fact that the towers were a symbol of the GLOBAL money power.
I remember shortly after Bush’s 9-20 speech, when I driving in Wichita and saw a local business had put up a sign that said “war on terrorism.”
The idea was completely insane then. It’s completely insane now.
You have “wars” against nation-states, not criminal organizations, chemical substances, or ideas. Lyndon Johnson’s “war on poverty” was just a metaphor.
And you can’t win metaphorical wars with real bullets. There’s not a weapon on Earth than can “kill” terrorism, You can only kill people.
I like Fareed Zakaria. He is a very well informed and smart man. I think he is right about Al Qaida (why does the spelling keep changing?), as far as it goes. However, Al Qaida is a symptom of a disease, not the disease itself. The disease is theocracy. One of the things that I think is very important is the idea that a faith should be freely chosen, even if one inherits it. There are people who are not Al Qaida types (and in fact are horrified by them) who still are Islamists (as opposed to Muslims). This is some of the core issue that is driving Al Qaida, the idea that a religion should have exclusive statuatory and legislative powers. Christians and other religions (look at recent history in India, and fortunately they have moved away from the Hindu Nationalist BJP lately) have and continue to have their unfortunate histories with this, but Islamism (as opposed to Islam) is still a particularly dangerous force in this world, and we do need to be on guard against it.
Al Qaida and other violent movements will always find traction when a large number of people who are Muslims believe the following:
1) That allowing others to portray in fiction or artwork their primary prophet should be illegal, and should be punished by any government in the country where such portrayal took place.
2) That converting to another religion, or no religion, from Islam, should be a punishable crime.
3) That Muslims should be free in a society that respects not only freedom of belief, but freedom of access, to impose their beliefs on others (for example, Muslim cab drivers in Detroit who refused to accept people with service dogs). This issue, by the way, could also apply to some “Christian” pharmacists who are in the position to deny prescribed medicines to customers when they are the only game in town.
Those beliefs listed above are far more widespread than Al Qaida, and they are dangerous when people are willing to use violence or the threat of violence to defend them. And I think there really is an issue here.
Name a war, in the entire history of the United States, that did not have someone who profited, from that war?
Name a war, in the entire history of the United States, that did not have people who resisted or protested against that war, would you please?
Even with WW2, there was a large segment of the population, the “America First” group, that kept us out of the war until Pearl Harbor.
You anti war lefties simply have no sense of duty or sacrifice.
By the way, energy and life are directly related.
Oil is the life blood of modern society.
Oil feeds people. Oil heats homes. Oil powers fire trucks. Oil powers ambulances. Oil transports food.
Oil is life.
Oil is freedom.
Those who hate freedom hate oil.
No big surprise.
Nevermind the fact that the towers were a symbol of the GLOBAL money power.
Funny, Pleefer, how anyone who dared to ask why the World Trade Center was chosen was immediately shouted down, huh?
The last thing they wanted was to understand the attack.
Agnatha
I once asked US News and World Report why everyone seemed to spell Quadafi or Khadafi differently, when the Libyan President was always in the news.
Their answer, in the next publication:
It is not possible to directly translate Arabic to English, in a consistant manor, where proper names are concerned.
It is difficult, I guess, to translate other words as well.
What the translation strives for is phonetic, does it SOUND OUT correctly, in the English version?
Since English can have several spellings for the same sound, there is no clear rule for translation purposes.
Rage
Liberals want to “understand” the attack.
Conservatives want to kill the attackers.
What liberals seem to be saying is, “Yes, the world hates America because America is powerful. So lets take America down a few pegs. Then they won’t all hate us so much!”
Fareed Zakaria like so many others in the mainstream media is trying to undermine the WAR effort. He is trying to tell you that day is night and black is white. He will probably win a pulitzer prize someday which will put him in good company. In the 30’s, a NY times reporter by the name of Walter Daranty wrote a series of articles telling his American readers what a wonderful place the Soviet Union had become under Joe Stalin. He was not a communist revolutionary trying to spread the communist revolution to the rest of the world. he was instead a “agrarian reformer” who was building a model for the rest of the world to follow. At the same time millions of Ukrainians were being systematically and purposely starved to death by this great “agrarian reformer”. A fact that Daranty was surely aware of yet withheld from his readers. In the 50’s another Times reporter wrote glowingly of a dashing young revolutionary leader in Cuba who was trying to overthrow the corrupt Batista regime in Havana. Again the Times told America that Castro was no Commie, he was an “Agrarian reformer”. A few short years later he was allowing Soviet nuclear missiles to be placed 90 miles from the US bringing the world to the brink of world war III.
Don’t believe anything the NY Times, Newsweek, Time Magazine, etc. tell you. They may win pulitzer prizes from the pinhead elites who award them, but everything they write is total Barbara Striesand.
Hate oil? Hate is a strong word for most everything, and too often used.
Oil is black and sticky and stains the driveway or clothing of the mechanic. It is refined into many many useful and necessary products that make life much better.
I would love to see America less dependent on fossil fuels. I would love to see those useful products made from another material.
To say the words, “Those who hate freedom hate oil,” is beyond my understanding. So, Franklin, you often tell me and others “we obviously don’t understand _____.” I hope I never get even close to understanding a mind that can make such a statement as you just did.
“By the way, energy and life are directly related.
“Oil is the life blood of modern society.
“Oil feeds people. Oil heats homes. Oil powers fire trucks. Oil powers ambulances. Oil transports food.
“Oil is life.
“Oil is freedom.
“Those who hate freedom hate oil.
“No big surprise.”
Talk about classic one line bullsh*t with stand alone comments (most of which are dubious) linked together dubiously for a dubious conclusion.
Are you seriously trying to argue that those who promote research and investment into moving to alternative fuels “hate freedom”?
“You anti war lefties simply have no sense of duty or sacrifice.”
I’ll show ya mine if you show me yours.
Oh WAIT!
I found it.
“Name a war, in the entire history of the United States, that did not have someone who profited, from that war?”
Wash and wash paulie. You’ll never get the blood off your hands.
“Liberals want to “understand” the attack.”
I don’t want any PART of understanding YOU paulie.
Must be the old conservative in me that thinks you and yours should be squashed like the dangerous insects you are.
Liberals want to “understand” the attack.
Conservatives want to kill the attackers.
Ah, yes. Ignorance is strength.
George Orwell would be proud.
I guess that’s why we started two irrelevant wars, and bin-Laden is still roaming free.
“Oil is the life blood of modern society.
Oil feeds people. Oil heats homes. Oil powers fire trucks. Oil powers ambulances. Oil transports food.
Oil is life.”
Uh no.
Oil is more like a drug. And there are alternatives to addiction.
You are no more than a “mule” paulie.
“Oil feeds people.”
Heh HEH!
I’ll be honored to bring you a nice big steaming cup of 30 weight paulie.
I just ask you let me watch you drink it.
“War” officially ended the day that our esteemed Commander in Chief landed on the deck of the aircraft carrier and proclaimed “Mission Accomplished”.
It has been an occupation since that day, and we are the colonial power doing the occupying to control Iraq’s oil resources. This will be assured through the military bases that we are building throughout the oil-rich country.
Any rational adult needs to admit that these set of circumstances exist and accept it, whether they agree with the logic or not.
This has been the neocon plan since before 9/11, and they pulled it off with the entire world watching.
It’d be like declaring war on gangs, but instead of using law enforcement, we move into high gang activity areas with the militar and shoot anyone that looks like a gang banger.
One of them ‘Let God sort em out’ type deals. You’d get a few amongst the many.
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Rage
Posted July 12, 2008 at 11:45 am | Permalink
I remember shortly after Bush’s 9-20 speech, when I driving in Wichita and saw a local business had put up a sign that said “war on terrorism.”
The idea was completely insane then. It’s completely insane now.
You have “wars” against nation-states, not criminal organizations, chemical substances, or ideas. Lyndon Johnson’s “war on poverty” was just a metaphor.
And you can’t win metaphorical wars with real bullets. There’s not a weapon on Earth than can “kill” terrorism, You can only kill people.
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Bull shyt
Rage wants to sit home fapping with his thumb up his butt chanting liberal mantras. That’s his solution.
It’s a shame that people must engage in provocation and personal attacks in this blog.
Adults should post their thoughts and respect each other’s opinion without the hateful remarks directed at one another.
If the ” born-again-fool” had not been in the White House, none of this could have happened.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/u_s_vows_to_defeat_whoever_it_is
“Pie apple pie in the sky when I die.”
“It’s not a matter of whether the war is not real, or if it is, Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance.
This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation.
The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia but to keep the very structure of society intact. “
Nice reference, Jay. Wonder how many will even comprehend the similarity. . .let alone identify the source?
Agnatha
You can be for research and for alternatives and not hate oil
However, there does exist, in the Democrat Party, a rather large group of people that do hate oil and do hate freedom.
We seem to have two different schools of thought here:
1. those who use the “patriotic” tag to denounce anybody who thinks differently then they, and use the bush/rush (or brush) mantra to justify their beliefs.
2. Those who tend to think for themselves, and can decide to do something to fix the serious things wrong with this country, and do so in an intelligent manner, only to be vilified for thinking outside the box.
I’ll side with #2 any day. #1 is why we are in the war in the first place (strictly box thinkers).
Ed Friedemann is a Jew Hating Democrat, by the way.
Ed clearly hates.
Ed is clearly a Democrat.
Yes, Democrats do hate.
Ed will, perhaps, claim that he is not a Dem. — But Ed hates Bush.
And, Ed is very pleased with all of the anti-Jewish things that many of Obama’s supporters have said.
BJ
NAME an alternative, would you?
There is no alternative for oil, today.
We will be using oil, and coal, as primary energy sources for at least another 50 years.
That is just the way it is, and you will not be able to produce a single expert, in any field, who will claim otherwise.
Show us someone, anyone, even the worst crack pot you can find, who claims that we can completely stop using oil without widespread starvation and poverty, would you please?
Aren’t there a few core definitions that must be met before calling something a war. I submit having a first-class idiot as president makes our military action a mere mess, not a war.
Impeach the bastard already.
We could enslave third-world people and have them push our cars to work and fro.
Tanks, machine guns, and bombers?
Looks like war to me.
For Christ’s sake, don’t blow it all out of proportion.
This Fareed Zakaria is just a magazine columnist, since when did he become an expert of war?
I don’t understand why everyone has a hard time realizing that we are at war with the terrorists. The day of 9/11 was just the last straw. We allowed them to attack us over and over again beofore that. We gave Saddam every chance to come clean and he didn’t. They say there were no WMDs yet they showed us satellite images of convoys heading out of Iraq to Syria. Then recently even on CNN, they are showing the yellow cake for uranium being transferred by our American troops from Iraq to Canada. How odd(haha), that whenever there is a news story that shows the truth, our MSM shows it only once or twice. Not believing that we are at war is what the enemy and the elites would like for you to believe.
By the way Congress did not declare war but they gave the go ahead for the President to use whatever means it took to declare the war on terrorism. You will also recall that Clinton even said Saddam was a dangerous source and had to be taken care of. The last time Congress ever declared war was World War II and yet we had the Korean War and the Vietnam War then later the Gulf War. Then of course you had the cheap shots that Clinton took at Iraq and Bosnia. If you ask me, bombing a place and then running is a cowardly way for a President to run a country. I don’t believe that Congress will ever declare war again, they are too worried about their own position with the elites than they are with the American people. I want a President who is proud of our country and its people and will back us up.
For those of you who have forgotten America is not only white, it is made up of many colors and nationalities and they deserve to be protected too. When you start putting down America, you are putting them down too. Did it ever occur to you that is what the elites would like for you to do?
KsJeff
I wish the personal attacks would stop, as well.
However, since 3 of the libs on this Blog have wished me dead, this summer, I do have to tell you that most of the flames and rude, personal comments come from the left, in my experience.
I’ve been fighting shilly paulie “franklin’ for a long time.
Ya know when he is getting really desperate?
He starts in with the “would you please”.
I can go get where he said that mankind would be using fossil fuels, get THIS, “forever”.
But that would be getting off track.
The subject is war. Apparently paulie “franklin” is at war.
I’m not. Well not with Iraq anyway. Does anybody else feel “at war”?
Is our society acting as if it is “at war”? I mean in the context of say World War II?
THEN our people sacrificed and went without and they also invented and cooperated.
Now? Well, bush told us the best way to be “at war” was to keep shopping and visiting “America’s great destination spots”.
Again, this is, legally, a declared war.
There is no legal basis to say that we are not in a declared war.
Congress does not have to put the words “declare” or “war” in its authorizations, for Congressional approval to attach.
Why would this guy taunt the terrorists, Al Queda and any others by calling them has beens? Is he part of some bushco plot to have another attack here before the election ? Why have we never held Saudi Arabia responsible for their role in the attacks ? Why do we continue to send Pakistam and Afghanistan billions (to corrupt governments) what happened to “… any one who harbors terrorists will be held to account also” paraphrasing …. gutless administration — gutless public for putting up with it
If Clinton had bush’s brain, we’d have declared war on the gun show circuit members, the NRA, and the Republicans, since these were McVeigh’s organisations.
Hey paulie franklin?
What have you done for the war effort lately?
Sell lots of stuff did ya? Or maybe you let your car idle while waiting for a train instead of shutting it down to save gas.
Just because ya could.
JMWalker
Posted July 12, 2008 at 12:33 pm | Permalink
We seem to have two different schools of thought here:
1. those who use the “patriotic” tag to denounce anybody who thinks differently then they, and use the bush/rush (or brush) mantra to justify their beliefs.
2. Those who tend to think for themselves, and can decide to do something to fix the serious things wrong with this country, and do so in an intelligent manner, only to be vilified for thinking outside the box.
I’ll side with #2 any day. #1 is why we are in the war in the first place (strictly box thinkers)
—————————
Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?
I’ll wait for your genius answers to think outside the box.
“And, Ed is very pleased with all of the anti-Jewish things that many of Obama’s supporters have said.”
and who and what did they say?
— you lying pompous POS f**king cons will lie cheat and steal to maintain their immoral and illegal agenda — like the war so much sign up and take nathan regular and hank with ya — it’d be more productive (and entertaining) than your greed inspired posts here …….
And, had Clinton of, McCveigh would have been successful in starting anarchy, his goal.
Actually, I admire FDR for his conduct of the war.
FDR was a bit deceitful.
FDR also covered up the fact that the Soviets were less than allies, for most of the war.
Our Merchant Marines (mostly unarmed, commercial seamen) were killed in great numbers as FDR moved food and ammunition to the Soviets, in the Northern Seas. The Nazi’s killed lots of our people, even before Pearl Harbor.
However, the Soviets would not allow the American Military to attack Japan, from the Soviet Union.
The Soviets would give us no help at all.
This was a “mistake” made by FDR.
FDR also was President during some of the worst slaughters of our troops in history. At the landing on Normandy Beech, many of our troops simply drowned to death, because the landing craft did not get them close enough.
In the South Pacific, we often tried to use vehicles that would not work on volcanic islands.
We made lots of mistakes in WW2.
Even so, I admire FDR, overall, for the conduct of the war.
However, FDR was an idiot on economic matters.
FDR should have promoted a strong economy, at home, which would have produced more tax revenues to fight the war.
On the economic front, FDR’s policies prolonged the Depression and “taxed” the economy.
Look it up. Websters. To “tax” means to strain.
—-
One other thing.
I find it amusing to hear liberals claim that President Bush is not making us “sacrifice” economically. As if killing the economy with high taxes would, somehow, make them support the war effort!
Only economic growth can possibly pay our bills.
Nothing else will work.
If you over-tax work and investment, nobody will work or invest.
However, there does exist, in the Democrat Party, a rather large group of people that do hate oil and do hate freedom.
Right–they should shut up and obey.
Freedom is slavery.
You just got one left, Paul!
indie
Obama is surrounded by anti-semites.
If this is NEWS to you, it only shows how ignorant and uninformed you are.
And WHY isn’t that “boogeyman” that James “Regular” mentions and whose pic is at the top of this thread not dead?
Ya don’t kill the boogeyman. If you do, you can’t keep the people afraid.
It sickens me. The American people are being treated as if they were a nation of small children.
“Go play! Have fun! BUY Stuff!”
“But remember! We’re afraid!”
How sad.
And bush didn’t even NEED to lie. MOST Americans are so resistant to any actual REAL change or pain that they would have GLADLY sent others to war just to keep the cost of gasoline down.
But then, bush would have had to deliver the cheap gas wouldn’t he? They were not about to let him do that. Those with their hand on the oil spigot I mean?
“Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?
I’ll wait for your genius answers to think outside the box.”
How about dedicating our efforts to finding and bringing justice to OBL in Afghanistan / Pakistan and not go off on a tangent / hunting safari in Iraq —- how’s that fit genius — no crying / lying about ohhhhh SH was a bad man and he helped OBL —- so what? did OBL go back to help him nahhhhhhhhhhhh …… 8 years and we aren’t really any safer than on 9/10/01
As for the use of oil. There is nothing wrong with find alternative energy; however, I believe in the long run fuel is the more efficient source. When you consider powering cars with bio-fuels it may work but you must consider the other sources of transportation that brings us our goods especially when they are transported from other countries such as ships, jets, trains and semis. It is just impractical. Maybe down the road sometime say 40 years from now it may work. I say because 40 years ago because in the 70s they were talking this same mantra and still nothing happened. Wind energy is going to cost a lot of money and so will solar energy but to shut off the source we have now while we wait for the new energies is crazy. Use what we have now and when the time comes use the new energy source. It is ridiculous that 40 years ago we could have started drilling the oil we had on our land and didn’t because they wanted to find an alternative and then they didn’t.
Then you have to ask yourselves what other sources do we use petroleum for and how will we replace that if we just shut off our fuel sources. It is used in anything plastic, it is used in shaving cream, our medicines, car battery cases and the list goes on. I am sorry but fuel is not an addiction, we don’t drink it or ingest it into our bodies in any form so as to become addicts. Fuel is just the more efficient way for transportation and warming our homes. If we were to give it up you are talking about slowing down our whole economy. Businesses need the goods when they need them to provide for you.
#
Indie
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:00 pm | Permalink
“Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?
I’ll wait for your genius answers to think outside the box.”
How about dedicating our efforts to finding and bringing justice to OBL in Afghanistan / Pakistan and not go off on a tangent / hunting safari in Iraq —- how’s that fit genius — no crying / lying about ohhhhh SH was a bad man and he helped OBL —- so what? did OBL go back to help him nahhhhhhhhhhhh …… 8 years and we aren’t really any safer than on 9/10/01
——————————
Evidently, you haven’t been paying attention the past 12 years.
Al Qaeda works in cells. Killing one leader makes little difference.
How many terrorists attacks on the U.S. since 9/11?
How many?
Count em.
I’ll wait.
—————————
Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?
I’ll wait for your genius answers to think outside the box.
================================================
Invading Afghanistan was the proper thing to do. The rest was a set up by the bush admin to fan the flames of patriotism in order to get the country behind him for the invasion of Iraq. Most of his “intelligence” turned out to be doctored, hence Iraq was BS. We went after a tin pot dictator, who had no WMD, and was no longer a threat to the world, only to his own people. There are dozens of those morons running countries now. When does the box thinking invasion start on them?
And you neo-cons spread the bush word like it was biblical. While the rest of us know where the screw ups are, and who planted them. We also are using our out of box thinking to come up with energy alternatives, while the rest of the “brush” puppets think drilling is the answer. It ain’t. Oil will never drop below $100 a barrel, regardless if we were to drill this whole country and the surrounding oceans.
How’s that, box boy.
FDR should have promoted a strong economy, at home, which would have produced more tax revenues to fight the war.
What?
— every body was busy helping in the war effort — and not too worried about the economy almost the entire nation was engaged in prosecfuting the war from the millions of enlistees to the folks back home that had to ration gas rubber steel etc work in the war plants …. should fdr told everyone to go shopping ? and not make bullets ? War was the economy and it was a much better unifying execution of the war than WPE ……
We are sacrificing because of, and not for the war. Everyime you go to the store, or fill your car, or make a purchase. Not to mention the losses in your portfolio/ 401k’s. These costs have all risen because of bush’s great adventure.
That’s why bush said “Keep on buying”.
We should ask “Regular” and “Franklin” to regale us with accounts of their recent engagements in this “war”.
Didja win the battle at Wal Mart aisle 9?
Still stuck in the ol’ left/right nonsense. Ever hear of Fabian Socialism? We’re headed there, be it the “left” or the “right” leading us there.
We’re fighting shadow’s out there (wherever there is) and these shadow’s, you call “terrorists”.
I have an oak leaf cluster on my National Defense Ribbon there Remil Junior JR. That means I stood in uniform defending the country twice in times of war.
What have you done Remil?
I’ll wait.
Hmmmm, where to start. And what a waste of a perfectly good Saturday.
“Liberals want to “understand” the attack.”
Know thine enemy, Paul. You can’t fight what you don’t know and don’t understand. Bush is proof of this. This administration was warned. They ignored it. And now we have McCain, who doesn’t know which faction is which is Iraq, but, hey, let’s fight ‘em all! And just how is all that working out for you?
Ed Friedemann is a Jew Hating Democrat, by the way.
Wrong. And you continue to ignore history and facts, taking everything personally. Get over it, Paul. Stop whining.
Again, this is, legally, a declared war.
It’s strange that you’re the only one who believes that. Read the Constitution. Or keep playing mind games with yourself to justify everything.
Korea was not a war, although we refer to it as such.
Vietnam was not a war, although we refer to it as such.
Afghanistan is not a war. Oh, wait, that’s the cradle of the “War on Terror”. Riiiiiight
Iraq is not a war, although we refer to it as such.
Please show us Congress’s Declaration of War for each of the above.
Indie
You are flat wrong.
However, one of the “unintended consequences” of FDR’s ham fisted controls on the domestic economy was:
Group Health Insurance!
FDR put a freeze on wages.
The only way some companies could recruit workers, then, was a loophole in the law: give benefits that are not taxable, or counted as “wages” and then you can get around FDR’s rules!
“You can be for research and for alternatives and not hate oil.”
But the key seems to be “hating” oil.
“However, there does exist, in the Democrat Party, a rather large group of people that do hate oil and do hate freedom.”
1) Unsupported claim about large numbers of Democrats “hating” oil.
2) Still unsupported allegation that if one “hates” oil ipso facto that same person will “hate’ freedom.
#
JMWalker
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:07 pm | Permalink
—————————
Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?
I’ll wait for your genius answers to think outside the box.
================================================
Invading Afghanistan was the proper thing to do. The rest was a set up by the bush admin to fan the flames of patriotism in order to get the country behind him for the invasion of Iraq. Most of his “intelligence” turned out to be doctored, hence Iraq was BS. We went after a tin pot dictator, who had no WMD, and was no longer a threat to the world, only to his own people. There are dozens of those morons running countries now. When does the box thinking invasion start on them?
And you neo-cons spread the bush word like it was biblical. While the rest of us know where the screw ups are, and who planted them. We also are using our out of box thinking to come up with energy alternatives, while the rest of the “brush” puppets think drilling is the answer. It ain’t. Oil will never drop below $100 a barrel, regardless if we were to drill this whole country and the surrounding oceans.
How’s that, box boy.
————————-
I’d call that performance piss poor.
You agreed with attacking Afghanistan, yet you have zero to offer on advice of thinking outside the box.
Do you call b*tching and whining thinking outside the box?
What else you got?
All I hear is whining.
PRE
Where does the Constitution say that a Congressional authorization of war must use “magic words” to be legal?
Congress approved the Iraq war.
Case closed.
Because something hasn’t happened is not proof that any bush action has prevented it from happening. Now, if we were having successful terrorist attacks on a weekly/monthly basis (like say in Iraq) and all of a sudden they stopped there might be some merit in ‘how many successful attacks since 9/11′, better question is ‘how many successful attacks before 9/11?’
And your word means almost nothing here “Regular”.
I asked you what you had done for the war effort lately. I mean other than shilling that it should be continuous.
oil makes freedom possible.
If you hate what makes freedom possible, you hate oil.
Al Qaeda works in cells. Killing one leader makes little difference.
Not entirely correct: bring bin-Laden to justice would hinder their organization and be symbolically powerful.
But this is another compelling why a “war on terrorism” (what does that even mean?) makes no sense.
But why should exactly Al-Qaeda attack the US now? How would that serve their political agenda better than attacking US assets abroad (they’ve done plenty of that) and exploiting the ongoing occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and also using the media stardom we’ve helpfully bestowed on the SOB and his lieutenants?
Cro-magnon conservatives say that terrorists attack because they attack. Reality is more complicated.
Don’t think about it, kill it!
#
Predestined
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink
Hmmmm, where to start. And what a waste of a perfectly good Saturday.
“Liberals want to “understand” the attack.”
Know thine enemy, Paul. You can’t fight what you don’t know and don’t understand. Bush is proof of this. This administration was warned. They ignored it. And now we have McCain, who doesn’t know which faction is which is Iraq, but, hey, let’s fight ‘em all! And just how is all that working out for you?
Ed Friedemann is a Jew Hating Democrat, by the way.
Wrong. And you continue to ignore history and facts, taking everything personally. Get over it, Paul. Stop whining.
Again, this is, legally, a declared war.
It’s strange that you’re the only one who believes that. Read the Constitution. Or keep playing mind games with yourself to justify everything.
Korea was not a war, although we refer to it as such.
Vietnam was not a war, although we refer to it as such.
Afghanistan is not a war. Oh, wait, that’s the cradle of the “War on Terror”. Riiiiiight
Iraq is not a war, although we refer to it as such.
Please show us Congress’s Declaration of War for each of the above.
—————————-
You like playing semantics game eh?
Ask the soldier who is being shot at, watches his buddies and seeing motars and artillery shells explode around him if that is not war.
Go ahead, I’ll wait.
“oil makes freedom possible.”
It does?
How DID the Revolutionaries against the King get on without it?
#
Rage
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:16 pm | Permalink
Al Qaeda works in cells. Killing one leader makes little difference.
Not entirely correct: bring bin-Laden to justice would hinder their organization and be symbolically powerful.
But this is another compelling why a “war on terrorism” (what does that even mean?) makes no sense.
But why should exactly Al-Qaeda attack the US now? How would that serve their political agenda better than attacking US assets abroad (they’ve done plenty of that) and exploiting the ongoing occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and also using the media stardom we’ve helpfully bestowed on the SOB and his lieutenants?
Cro-magnon conservatives say that terrorists attack because they attack. Reality is more complicated.
Don’t think about it, kill it!
——————
Okay, another Liberal genius.
Let’s hear your solutions and not more whining and criticisms.
Solutions please. Let’s hear your answers to solve the world’s problems.
I’ll wait.
No whining or complaining.
Evidently, you haven’t been paying attention the past 12 years.
Al Qaeda works in cells. Killing one leader makes little difference.
How many terrorists attacks on the U.S. since 9/11?
How many?
Count em.
I’ll wait.
what ab asshole — keep waiting — you may grow up some day and see the light
#
BlueJay
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink
And your word means almost nothing here “Regular”.
I asked you what you had done for the war effort lately. I mean other than shilling that it should be continuous.
——————————————
NO YOU DIDN’T. HERE IS WHAT YOU WROTE.
—————————————
#
BlueJay
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:08 pm | Permalink
We should ask “Regular” and “Franklin” to regale us with accounts of their recent engagements in this “war”.
Didja win the battle at Wal Mart aisle 9?
——————————————-
Everyone here knows that you are a deceitful liar and a dredge of society.
#
Indie
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
Evidently, you haven’t been paying attention the past 12 years.
Al Qaeda works in cells. Killing one leader makes little difference.
How many terrorists attacks on the U.S. since 9/11?
How many?
Count em.
I’ll wait.
what ab asshole — keep waiting — you may grow up some day and see the light
——————–
Still waiting.
Yeah, I effing hate oil. Makes, slobby, fat-assed, suit wearing “Christian” assholes rich and leaves us where we are right now. It gets people effing killed, fighting for it and it’s money-making properties. We supposedly landed on the effing moon. If we can do that sh.it, we should be able to propel our fat, dumb and lazy asses with compressed freakin’ air. So, yeah, I hate oil.
Nevermind the fact that the towers were a symbol of the GLOBAL money power.
No kidding, Pleefer. We’ve been boohooing the loss of the thousands of Americans on 9/11, yet we forget that many of those lost on that day were not Americans. Check it out, folks. WORLD TRADE CENTER. Add the U.S. government and military into the mix–one missed, the other a small hit, neither of which sustained anywhere near the same damage, and what do you have?
Open your eyes. Use your brains. Stop being sheep. Think for yourself.
Hey AH
Your question was ““Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?”
The answer provided:
How about dedicating our efforts to finding and bringing justice to OBL in Afghanistan / Pakistan and not go off on a tangent / hunting safari in Iraq —- how’s that fit genius — no crying / lying about ohhhhh SH was a bad man and he helped OBL —- so what? did OBL go back to help him nahhhhhhhhhhhh …… 8 years and we aren’t really any safer than on 9/10/01
What should be done now? elect a new administration that isn’t an embarrassment to us in every way shape and form
To know the enemy is one thing.
The liberals, and the anti-jewish hate mongers on this blog, don’t want to just “understand” other people who hate America.
They IDENTIFY with hating America!
I do not care why someone might hate me. If they want me to die, I want to kill them first, before they get the chance.
You seem to assume that their REASONS for hating America are valid.
Anyone, in America, who wants to identify with, and sympathize with, terrorists that want to kill us, is silly at best and dangerous and treasonous, at worst.
Yes, learn about the enemy, so that you can learn how to kill the enemy.
It is conceit, cowardice and arrogance to think they will LOVE you, just because you want so badly to understand them.
“Everyone here knows that you are a deceitful liar and a dredge of society.”
Yeah I think you summed up yourself pretty good there Jimmuhreg U lar.
#
Indie
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:24 pm | Permalink
Hey AH
Your question was ““Okay genius, what would you have done when the terrorists destroyed one of the major financial centers in the world, attacked the pentagon and killed more people on an airliner?”
The answer provided:
How about dedicating our efforts to finding and bringing justice to OBL in Afghanistan / Pakistan and not go off on a tangent / hunting safari in Iraq —- how’s that fit genius — no crying / lying about ohhhhh SH was a bad man and he helped OBL —- so what? did OBL go back to help him nahhhhhhhhhhhh …… 8 years and we aren’t really any safer than on 9/10/01
What should be done now? elect a new administration that isn’t an embarrassment to us in every way shape and form
——————————
You’re still whining and complaining and have yet to come up with any solutions other than what has already been done.
Stop whining and complaining.
Offer up some solutions.
I know you are smarter than the Democratic Congress who has failed to come up with solutions.
Or, are you?
I’ll wait.
How many terrorists attacks on the U.S. since 9/11?
How many before 9/11? Do you think this was an overnight plan they just through together? And we had warning. There are ways to destroy this kind of terror, and it isn’t invading the wrong country and occupying it. Terrorism lives on, as it always will, but at least through other means, we’ve managed to weaken this one. Just think what might be if they hadn’t attacked on 9/11? They brought attention to themselves. Not so bright after all.
Franklin will also present, without any apparent critical regard, the most outrageous claims as absolute truth if they are consistent with what he thinks is his cause.
Again, textbook bullsh*t.
You really SHOULD get out from behind the keyboard for awhile there James “Regular”.
Do your PART! GO buy something!
I suggest personal hygiene products.
Stop whining, Paul. The only Jew hater on this blog is long gone.
#
BlueJay
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
You really SHOULD get out from behind the keyboard for awhile there James “Regular”.
Do your PART! GO buy something!
I suggest personal hygiene products.
——————
Again, Remil.
You have nothing but insults and ad hominem.
You are on this blog daily much longer time than I am.
Practice what you preach Remil.
Whenever you learn to discuss let me know.
“Oil makes freedom possible.
“If you hate what makes freedom possible, you hate oil.”
And the bullsh*t never stops. Note the inversion. One now hates “what makes freedom possible” therefore one “hates” oil.
If I keep saying what I want to be true over and over, maybe someone will be convinced to believe it.
#
Predestined
Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:28 pm | Permalink
How many terrorists attacks on the U.S. since 9/11?
How many before 9/11? Do you think this was an overnight plan they just through together? And we had warning. There are ways to destroy this kind of terror, and it isn’t invading the wrong country and occupying it. Terrorism lives on, as it always will, but at least through other means, we’ve managed to weaken this one. Just think what might be if they hadn’t attacked on 9/11? They brought attention to themselves. Not so bright after all.
————————
The fact is they did attack on 9/11.
What are your solutions?
I mean, all I hear is Democrats whine and complain, but never offer any solutions.
What
Are
Your
Solutions?
Here’s one for you cons to answer for the rest of the day.
1. Why is Osama bin Laden still alive?
2. If Osama bin Laden is still alive when bush leaves office, can it be fairly said that bush is an abject failure as a President?
Some possible partial solutions (any who claims they can “solve the world’s problems” is an idiot or a liar):
(1) Extract ourselves from the civil wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (as to how–that’s a full topic by itself).
(2) Concentrate on intelligent security measures that make American safer (as opposed to the recent FISA bill).
(3)Restore the rule of law in US actions here and abroad. Close Gitmo and shut down the secret gulags abroad. Pay some compensation to those who wrongly accused.
(4) Work with the international community (which was almost universally sympathetic after 9-11) to dismantle Al-Quaeda. That includes–especially–primarily Islamic countries. Treat international criminals like criminals, rather than elevating them to the same level as a sovereign nation.
(5) Examine the causes. Al Qaeda thrives and recruits by generating hatred of the US and western power. We undercut them when the US credibility is restored, i.e., the number of outright lies is reduced to an acceptable level. Seek peace in the Middle East. Consider at least reducing the number of bases in Saudi Arabia.
(6) Spend a small fraction of the money we’re using to make death now for foreign aid–especially in war-ravaged nations that are likely to be recruiting grounds for Al-Qaeda.
(7) Go on a full-fledged information campaign in the Arab world. Answer Al-Qaeda’s largely unanswered message with one of our own. But make it believable message–it has to be backed up with actions.
None of which is guaranteed to put out the fire, and probably won’t very quickly if it does, just as ending Prohibition didn’t put an end to the organized crime it started.
But at least we will have put away the can of kerosene.
P.S. PD is right–what a waste of a good Saturday! It’s even nice here (for a Tucson summer). I’m done.
Agnatha
When you can not refute something, you call it BS.
Never any facts.
Not much in the way of logic.
You are a smug, arrogant liberal.
You are so sure that you are correct, in everything you believe, that you assume the facts are on your side.
That is why you are so easy to defeat.
Pride commeth before the fall!
Libs
Do not confuse revenge with defense.
Do not confuse security with pay back.
The job of the Commander in Chief is to destroy the war making ability of our enemy, during war time.
IF we had concentrated all of our efforts on ONE MAN, OBL, we probably would have been attacked, again.
Instead, Bush destroyed OBL’s ability to make war on us.
“Agnatha
“When you can not refute something, you call it BS.”
No, I call bullsh*t bullsh*t.
“Never any facts.”
Unsupported one liner.
“Not much in the way of logic.”
You mean logic like this?
“Oil makes freedom possible.
“If you hate what makes freedom possible, you hate oil.”
Being lectured on logic by the likes of you is like being lectured on hygiene by the Peanuts character Pigpen.
“You are a smug, arrogant liberal.”
Child logic. “Agnatha argues with me, therefore he is a liberal” The smug and arrogant are simply ad hominem.
“You are so sure that you are correct, in everything you believe, that you assume the facts are on your side.”
Actually, I invite everyone to look at what Franklin posts. This is projection. The very ESSENCE of my problem with you, Franklin, is that I am intentional about trying to NOT be that way. I attempt to employ skepticism, even to my own beliefs. That very ideas of self skepticism and critical examination of your beliefs seem to be alien to you.
“That is why you are so easy to defeat.”
Only in Franklin world. But then, we have already established that reality is not important to you as your own pre-existing beliefs.
“Pride commeth before the fall!”
That’s not what the Black Knight in Monty Python thought. That’s who you remind me of.
Instead, Bush destroyed OBL’s ability to make war on us.
Gee, that’s great, Paul!
Now when does the “war on terrorism” end? How does it end?
Okay, now I’m really gone. . .
“Okay, now I’m really gone. . .”
Me too. I need to change my big rubber boots.
I’d call that performance piss poor.
You agreed with attacking Afghanistan, yet you have zero to offer on advice of thinking outside the box.
Do you call b*tching and whining thinking outside the box?
What else you got?
All I hear is whining.
============================================
That’s because the brushters have told you anything else is whining. You can’t see anything outside your box, so you can’t understand it. What I do is not whining, but thinking. So why don’t you and franklin get together and decide what color your box should be painted. I’m thinking black, as it won’t let any light in. That way, you really can continue with your inbox thinking without the light of reality shining in. You all will then be so happy.
I think they paint the walls of medical facilities housing the delusional and insane calm colors like pale blues and greens.
Bush has gotten another 4000 Americans either blown up or shot since 9/11, ostensibly because of 9/11.
We now know for a fact, OBL will not use Saddam’s WMD’s or drones to attack the U.S., gee I feel much safer now!
OBL can not send people across our open borders now, now ship bombs to our ports because of Iraq.
You people are delusional.
#
JMWalker
Posted July 12, 2008 at 2:09 pm | Permalink
I’d call that performance piss poor.
You agreed with attacking Afghanistan, yet you have zero to offer on advice of thinking outside the box.
Do you call b*tching and whining thinking outside the box?
What else you got?
All I hear is whining.
============================================
That’s because the brushters have told you anything else is whining. You can’t see anything outside your box, so you can’t understand it. What I do is not whining, but thinking. So why don’t you and franklin get together and decide what color your box should be painted. I’m thinking black, as it won’t let any light in. That way, you really can continue with your inbox thinking without the light of reality shining in. You all will then be so happy.
—————————-
Actually no.
Rage did an admirable job, although I disagree studying something while you are being attacked is kind of silly imo. Yet, he still offered solutions.
I have yet to hear any genius solutions from your end J M Walker.
Let’s see some that outside of the box thinking you were talking about.
Righties are getting a little to bazaar for rational conversation, bye.
Trying to blame the price of oil on “speculators” is to indict the entire stock market, which is built on the speculation of speculators.
This is the most ridiculous argument the Israelis have offered so far { as though that is suppose to offset the Israeli threat against Iran; a major oil producer }. Iran produces oil whereas Israel produces “terrorism.”
Israel needs to be moved to the “outback” { where all they can do is to piss-off the Aborigine }.
In modern society, oil DOES make freedom possible.
In revolutionary times, fuel was grain for the horses. They could not have made it, without transportation.
Are you saying we should go back to the horse and buggy days?
Agnatha
HUH?
” I attempt to employ skepticism, even to my own beliefs. That very ideas of self skepticism and critical examination of your beliefs seem to be alien to you.”
Never once have you seemed the least bit skeptical of anything any other liberal was saying.
Never once have you seemed anything less than 100% positive that you were right.
Never once have you seemed anything less than 100% positive that there was no rational basis to oppose your views.
Actually no.
Rage did an admirable job, although I disagree studying something while you are being attacked is kind of silly imo. Yet, he still offered solutions.
I have yet to hear any genius solutions from your end J M Walker.
Let’s see some that outside of the box thinking you were talking about.
=============================================
I suggest you go back and read my opinions on energy, religion, conservation, Obama, Iraq and a myriad assortment on other subjects posted right here in WE blog. Repeating myself is, well, redundant. And I don’t need to repeat myself here to convince myself I am correct in my assertions of your box-like thinking: that is something I already know.
When your halfway arround the world and wearing a uniform of the USA and people shoot at you and set off bombs to kill you and kill you and you gotta shoot back since their shooting at you it’s a war, goddammit!
And Franlin proves beyond any doubt that Agnatha is right on target…
Huh?
It is the actions of the President which have led to Al-Qaida being so weakened.
To assert the nonsense the article does, it has to first presume the success of the President the article is intened to attack.