It’s all in Phil Gramm’s head?

mccaingramm.jpgHome foreclosures spiked by 53 percent in June. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reportedly are on the verge of a government bailout. The stock market is plunging. Oil prices are soaring toward another record high.
But don’t worry, Americans. It’s all in your head, according to John McCain’s top economics guru, Phil Gramm, who told Americans to stop whining. Everything’s fine.
Maybe Gramm’s the one who should see a shrink.

130 Comments

  1. bth
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    The wealthy are doing well. That is all Gramm knows or cares about. And, as a close advisor of McCain …

  2. Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    “Home foreclosures spiked by 53 percent in June.” An out of context number. How many homes are privately owned verses the number under foreclosure? And according to the linked article that is only the number of homes that got at least one forclosure notice. Only a notice, not an actual forclosure or some kind of forced sell.

    As for the bailout, perhaps if the government would let them fail companies would adopt successful practices rather than looking for Daddy Warbucks to pay for their mistakes.

    And high oil prices are a an indicator of increased costs, not a ‘bad economy’.

    This is just another example of ‘if it bleeds it leads’ sensationalism in reporting.

  3. outlander
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Gramm is absolutely right. We sound like spoiled whiners. Led by the chorus from the MSM.

    We are fortunate enough to live in the greatest country in the world, full of opportunities. But most of us would rather sit on the porch and whine than go do something about it.

  4. mrcontroversy
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    In the immortal words of the late Molly Ivins, who I aspire to be like if I grow up:
    “Phil Gramm was the perfect candidate… for all those who thought Bob Dole wasn’t mean enough.”

  5. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Phil Gramm’s statement didn’t affect me nearly as much as Obama’s statement that we had better be teaching our children spanish. Makes me wonder what he has planned for the future of the greatest nation in the world.

    People who really look at the economy know that if we took the fuel cost and the resulting food cost raises out of the picture we are still looking at a growing economy.

    Maybe the fuel crisis is what was needed to show voters what they should be looking at in the next election.

  6. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Maybe some will write a strongly worded letter to John McCain to ask Phil Gramm to come back. Especially since Phil Gramm is right. After all, John McCain knows he needs help on Economic matters.

  7. annie_moose
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Dow 10990 everything is fine…..tax cuts…..bomb Iran…..drill here drill now….

  8. Monkeyhawk
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Reposted from this morning’s Open Thread –

    #
    Monkeyhawk
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    So we’ve all seen that John McCain’s top financial advisor, former Sen. Phil Gramm, said:

    “We have sort of become a nation of whiners,” he said. “You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline” despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.

    “We’ve never been more dominant; we’ve never had more natural advantages than we have today,” he said. “We have benefited greatly” from the globalization of the economy in the last 30 years. …

    “Misery sells newspapers,” Mr. Gramm said. “Thank God the economy is not as bad as you read in the newspaper every day.”

    It was a big, slow, juicy watermelon-sized fastball, and Obama smashed it out of the park.

    We don’t need another Dr. Phil! We need solutions! It’s not just a figment of your imagination. It’s not all in your head. When people are struggling to buy gas and groceries….When people are losing their homes…It’s not a figment of your imagination. And it’s not too much to ask for the government to step in and give you some relief. It’s time to have a president who doesn’t deny our problems or pretend they don’t exist. It’s time we had a president who takes responsibility.

    Good one on the “Dr. Phil” line.

    So the McCain camp reacted the way it always does — a bit addled and confused. First, they agreed with Gramm.

    In an initial statement published by Politico and then, seemingly, removed from its site, a McCain campaign aide actually stood by Gramm’s remarks, saying the interview as a whole was merely meant as a preview of the Senator’s economic agenda.

    “Mr. Gramm was simply saying that we are laying out the economic plan this week,” the piece quoted a “McCain official” as saying. “The plan is comprehensive, providing immediate near-term relief for Americans hurting today as well as longer-term solutions to get our economy back on track, secure our energy future and deliver jobs, prosperity and opportunity for the next generation. We’re laying out that plan this week with an emphasis on the critical importance of job creation, and it’s been a great success so far.”

    Then they realized that, oops, this wasn’t looking so good. So then they decided to excommunicate Gramm (who will apparently be no longer be considered for Treasury). And not only did McCain attack his own top adviser for the comments, but is emailing reporters a YouTube clip of his stern response.

    Poor Gramm. His good friend McCain has turned on him, and for saying the very same things that McCain himself had said!

    On January 2008:

    As far as putting additional money in taxpayers pocket, that’s fine, because a lot of it is psychological. Because I agree the fundamentals of our economy is still strong.”

    Back in April 2008:

    I’m very concerned about it, Neil. And obviously the way it’s been going up is just terrible. But I think psychologically — and a lot of our problems today, as you know, are psychological — the confidence, trust, the uncertainty about our economic future, ability to keep our own home. This might give them a little psychological boost. Let’s have some straight talk, it’s not a huge amount of money.

    Or June 2008:

    So I don’t see an immediate relief, but I do see that exploitation of existing reserves that may exist — and in view of many experts that do exist off our coasts — is also a way that we need to provide relief. Even though it may take some years, the fact that we are exploiting those reserves would have psychological impact that I think is beneficial.

    At one of the Republican debates:

    On the issues of rebates, fine, part of this is psychological. Part of the problem we have of course in any recession is psychological.

    Heck, he’s said it again and again!

    When you use that word this much, it’s not a gaffe.

    It’s a talking point.

    All Phil Gramm did wrong was follow the lead set by John Sidney McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term).

    Gasoline doesn’t cost $4-a-gallon.

    It’s all in your head.

  9. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Gramm would advise what this country needs is a couple more rounds of tax breaks for the Rich. How’d that work out, with the 2nd bush bear market in 7 yrs., DOW up about 1.5% since Bush the Idiot, took office in 2001!

  10. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Actually, foreclosures are DOWN in month to month figures.
    The “spike” you speak of is June 08 compared to June 07.
    Please do your homework!

  11. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Obama said that gasoline prices went up “too fast” — Obama seems to want higher gasonline prices, he just wants all of us to get used to the higher prices!

    Drill HERE, Drill NOW!

    Only by doing everything we can, production, research, AND conservation, can we become energy independent.

    There is no single answer. It is time to do everything.

    DRILL!

  12. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    You should write and tell that to John McCain Franklin. You can also tell him not to throw the Phil Gramm under the bus.

    All of your who wish to defend Phil Gramm should tell this to John McCain. Why aren’t you doing so?

  13. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    McCain is more likely to listen to Democrats than he is to Republicans.
    Hey, I absolutely think that McCain is a much better choice than the inexperienced empty-suit Obama.
    However, McCain has made his career by trying to please the Media and the Democrats.
    Find a Democrat or a member of the media to talk to McCain.
    He might listen then.

  14. SolDevVB
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Doesn’t McCan support cap & trade?

  15. GMC70
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Two words:

    Buying opportunity.

    ‘Nuff said.

  16. bth
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    VET – didn’t you get the memo? Neither Gramm nor McCain can do anything wrong!

  17. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Oh, so are there any Reagan Democrats out there to write the letter to McCain? Looks like Ben will have to do it.

  18. annie_moose
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a fun little chart with coming mortgage resets.

    http://bp3.blogger.com/_pMscxxELHEg/RxzD0s_7EYI/AAAAAAAABB4/ljDSXZhMG3o/s1600-h/IMFresets.jpg

    Also do a wee bit of research on the drill here drill now propaganda speel. Most of the big new finds are in deepwater. Worldwide there are only 21 deepwater drilling rigs. Petrobas Brazil has leased 75% of those rigs.

  19. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Ben every politician can and does do things wrong.That is something the right and left should agree on. Our solutions will not come from the government. They will come from entrepenuers who risk their own capital to develope alternative energy sources. They will come from capitalists who risk their money drilling on land that may or may not pay off. In other words the very corporations and rich that the left loves to hate will grow us out of this mess we find ourself in.

  20. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    For the record, I think that stock market results and Presidential elections have very little to do with one another.
    I also think that the President has very little to do with the economy.
    Yes, politicians do play a role.
    However, that role is always overstated and over hyped, by all sides, in every election and in nearly every economic commentary.

    Now, having said that, the current stock market correction might have some political considerations involved.

    The stock market is nothing more than a future prediction of corporate profits.

    Corporate profits are an huge indicator of economic health.

    The investing public could well be saying that George W. Bush LEAVING the White House will be bad for the economy.

    The investing public could well be saying that the global warming hype is going to kill the economy.
    —-
    Honestly, nobody really saw the huge spike in 3rd world demand for oil.
    Honestly, very few people really saw the mortgage problems comming.

    Those are the major drivers in our current economic situation.

    It is the Democrats in Congress that stand in the way of more oil production.

    Democrats in Congress had a great deal to do with all of the political pressure, placed on lenders, to lend money to people who could not afford the mortgage loans.

    The economy always goes through cycles, no matter who is in office.

    Politicians can do stupid things, to screw things up.

    However, there is nothing any politician, in the White House or in Congress, can do to eliminate economic cycles or business cycles.

  21. bth
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    No VET – McCain returned securely to the Republic fold. No ‘maverick’ there any more.

  22. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Sol Dev
    I think Budweiser Beer has Carbon Dioxide bubbles in it.
    We should put a tax on beer farts!
    That would be Methane AND CO2!

  23. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Yeah Annie I read about one of those lucrative ‘deep water’ finds.

    ———————-

    By Chuck Haga
    Tuesday, Feb. 26, 2008
    PARSHALL, N.D. — Landing lights for a long, remote runway. Christmas decorations left on all day, all night, all year. The scattered campfires of a large invading army that shows no sign of withdrawing anytime soon.

    Pick your metaphor for the landmark flares brightening the winter night over a broad expanse of western North Dakota rangeland.

    Thanks to record prices for oil and new technology that allows for easier extraction, the state’s oil patch is booming again, creating riches for farmers, ranchers, retirees and speculators lucky or smart enough to own mineral rights in the Bakken Formation, a vast oil deposit stretching from the Dakotas into Montana and Canada.
    ——————
    The deep oceans of the Dakotas are producing lots of oil. Just one new place that is being developed.

  24. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    annie
    So we can make more rigs.
    If we open up the opportunities, America can meet the challenges.
    You can not, on the one hand, tell us all to wait for “new technology” to get us out of these energy problems, and then, in the same breath, tell us we can’t use existing technology because it will take too long.

  25. Monkeyhawk
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    The only possible way increased American production of oil might have any impact on petroleum prices within America is if the oil industry is nationalized!

    Otherwise, it’s a literal drop-in-the-barrel for the planet’s thirst for petroleum.

    Most Alaskan oil gets shipped to Japan and China. Most United States fuel comes from Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

    But the product at hand is a “commodity.” All oil is the same oil (except in countries such as Saudi Arabia (nationalized; gasoline $1.O3/gallon) or Iran (nationalized; gasoline $1.21/gallon) or Mexico (nationalized; gasoline $1.78/gallon).

    The only way “drill here” works is if it’s linked to “sell here,” outside of the international market. And there’s only one way to achieve that: nationalizing American oil production.

    I suspect that isn’t something CONs want to talk about.

  26. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Nobody saw the spike in global demand for oil?

    Global expansion means global increase in energy demands.

    Here is a clue: Google “economies to scale” It is a very simple, Freshman level Economics principle. Then read on the Diseconomies to scale.

    Anyone who took Freshman Economics could have seen it coming.

    The housing market. I will give you that one.

  27. Electriclarry
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    There’s some dude in the newspaper this last week with Wiegand who said Wichita is not affected by the current foreclosures.

    I just thought I would add this for the sake of adding.

  28. annie_moose
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m all for it Franklin,
    here’s a common sense approach:

    http://www.pickensplan.com/

  29. outlander
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    “Anyone who took Freshman Economics could have seen it coming.”

    ————

    So, I guess you are now rich LLTVET, from the oil futures you bought?

  30. bth
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    annie – didn’t you know that Pickens is a Liberal Commie Enviro Wacko?

  31. annie_moose
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Ben,
    he’s a oil producing Liberal Commie Enviro Wacko. And he’s probably gonna make a fortune off that plan.

  32. Monkeyhawk
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, well, “Electriclarry” –

    If “some dude in the newspaper this last week with Wiegand who said Wichita is not affected by the current foreclosures” says it, it must be true.

    Real estate people are the ultimate Tinkerbell CONservatives; their survival depends on clapping their hands and believing in fairies.

    Shrubonomics is a disaster for this nation by every measure.

  33. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    I don’t consider $97,000 in my mutual fund rich Outlander. But I am not hurting. The house is paid for, one car paid for. But thanks for your concern.

    I was better off in 2000 than I was in 1992, better off now than in 2000. Your right Phil Gramm. It’s not a problem. ElecLarry is also right. No problems here in Wichita either.

    I am a libertarian. McCain stopped listening to us when Flush Lardball flared up. It’s up to you Republicans to show John McCain that he should keep Phil Gramm. Or you could choose Mitt Romney. Still time before the convention.

  34. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    If memory serves. It was Pickens who tried a leverage Buyout of Phillips. It cost my dad his chemical engineer job.

    OKOB. Does that sound right to you?

  35. Electriclarry
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Hah! I knew I didn’t like Wiegand for some reason.

  36. bth
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    VET – I think you are right. He also did the run at Gulf when I was there.

  37. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Definitely Vet that was my first memory of T Boone. Cost my best friends their jobs.

    He has since tried to make his legacy be one of compassion. Hence his big donation to OSU. He said he wants to see his legacy while still alive. sounds a little narsistic to me.

  38. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    My best friends lost their job. Thinking faster than I can type again.

  39. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Pickens made his fortune in extorting ‘Green Mail’. I believe he even made moves at Boeing, but back then the politicians said they would block it. (Things sure have changed since then), now they sold off part to Canada.

  40. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Monkey
    You are wrong.
    “Drill Here, Drill NOW!” works on several levels.

    Domestic oil production is a taxable enterprise. Domestic oil production will increase federal income tax revenues, state income tax revenues, federal employment tax revenues, local property tax revenues, local sales tax revenues, etc.

    Domestic oil production will mean more people employed by the oil industry, which will reduce unemployment rolls and welfare rolls.

    Domestic oil production will require oil field service workers, pipeline production, oil rig production and other support services.

    Also, you are completely wrong, as far as the impact on domestic prices:

    Every drop of oil produced, ANYWHERE in the world, helps to meet WORLD demand.

    Therefore, every drop of oil produced, anywhere in the world will help to REDUCE domestic gasoline prices.

  41. Pleefer
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Funny, ha-ha.

    Told you so.

    The REAL game is just beginning.

    Storing any food?

    -Tinfoiler

  42. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    LLVET

    I did not say that we should not have seen it comming.

    I said that nobody DID see it comming, as far as the spike in oil prices.

    As a hedge, many people put 10% or more of their money into commodities, energy production, precious metals etc.

    However, I can not recall anyone, one year ago, telling everyone to get 100% out of residential real estate and to get 100% into oil stocks.

    Yes, many people expected increases in energy prices, over time. Please find someone, in the mainstreem of economic thought, who predicted this, one year ago, would you please?

  43. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    annie

    You do know that it is virtually impossible to produce natural gas, in many places, without ALSO producing “liquids” — otherwise known as “oil” don’t you?
    I appreciate T. Boone Pickens contribution to the debate.
    However, we have to DRILL for natural gas, just like we have to DRILL for oil.
    I think he needs a better advertising agency, since he IS trying to “DRILL OUR WAY OUT” of the problem.

  44. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    “And there’s only one way to achieve that: nationalizing American oil production.”

    Nationalizing? Where in the history books have we seen that?

  45. LLTVET
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Frankllin. I gave you the housing bubble. Ok, so maybe they didn’t see the EXTENT of it. But when I hear someone say that “nobody saw the spike in demand for 3rd world oil” It kinda makes you think those guys were clueless. They weren’t. If I misunderstood, I’m sorry.

    For the record my fund manager brought this to my attention. I kick myself for being so chicken about it or I wouldn’t be working now. But many people have such stories. I suppose I didn’t see the extent. But, I only have a minor in Economics.

  46. Monkeyhawk
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    “Franklin” the classic CON –

    …resorts to theory when reality interferes with his bias.

    “Drill here. Buy here” only works if all that’s drilled here is sold here. If we weren’t an oil-exporting nation, and oil weren’t a commodity, there might be some real-world rationale about energy independence. As long as every drop of oil, from the Alaskan north slope to ANWR to stripper wells in the Flint Hills, ends up on the international commodities market there is nothing on a nation level that offers energy independence.

    This doesn’t even address the issues of logistics. Were there enough drilling rigs to poke holes in every plot of land (including your back yard) in America to suck out oil, it’d take at least five years (more likely, ten) to see any possible impact on the international commodities market. And, given the already developed and producing oil fields in the Middle East and former Soviet Union, any new American oil production would amount to a spit in the ocean.

    Now, given shale oil and the restructuring of the market so that all American-produced oil were sold and used in America, you might achieve energy independence. But that’s not the way the business works. So the only-est way to make the United States “energy independent” is to exclude the United States from the multi-national inter-dependence of the commodities market.

    You can’t have it both ways.

  47. Jed
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    When the economy gets so bad that the rich people start going belly up, you can rest assured that it will be fixed. Until then, quit your whining, tighten your belt and work harder for less pay to make sure your boss keeps his job, and the economy will be just fine.

  48. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:55 pm | Permalink
    Now, having said that, the current stock market correction might have some political considerations involved.

    The stock market is nothing more than a future prediction of corporate profits.

    Corporate profits are an huge indicator of economic health.

    The investing public could well be saying that George W. Bush LEAVING the White House will be bad for the economy.

    :lol:

  49. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    “Phil Gramm, who told Americans to stop whining. Everything’s fine.”

    I’m fairly certain he meant “the media can’t tell what to think, but they can tell you what to think about”.

    Everything is fine. Or at least not as bad as some who want the White House would make it seem.
    Look at the numbers.

  50. Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    I believe that the US is having some problems economically in America. Phil Gramm was either being too optimistic or he actually cannot relate to those who are struggling. I would really like to know where rich begins and poor ends. Between my husband and I, we make under $80,000 a year. He may work for “the evil oil company” but he is not a top dog so we don’t make that much. I can tell you that the price of fuel rising, is most definitely hurting us, it affects everything – food, clothes, medicine and the price of gas. Then you can bet it is going to affect other costs because anyone who owns a business is going to raise their prices on the consumer. It is not just this President that has set on their butts and not fight for the average American citizen. I remember this faintly during the 70s when we went through this. Now I know what my parents saw. I say, drill here and drill now. It would not only help with the fuel costs but it would also help with our industry and it would give create some more jobs for Americans.

    About the foreclosures, I know a lot of those happened because the realtors gave out loans to consumers who could not afford the houses they bought. We had some friends that did the same thing. They were not bailed out, they paid the price and are now luckily in a home they can afford. The “bail out” is not for the consumer but for the realtors. I think the realtors should pay the price for what they did. Now because of them, houses are so expensive no one can afford them.

  51. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    The “bail out” is not for the consumer but for the realtors.

    Has anybody ever borrowed money from a realtor?

  52. Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Oops, my bad. Please substitute Lender for Realtors in my last post.

  53. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    “I think the lender should pay the price for what they did.”

    I’m with you there.

    “I know a lot of those happened because the lenders gave out loans to consumers who could not afford the houses they bought.”

    And who’s mistake was that? I assume the borrowers were adults.

  54. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Drill here, wouldn’t make any difference, since oil is fungible, the countries producing the bulk would just slightly trim production and offset anything we pulled out of the ground.
    You can’t drill your way out of this oil hole.

  55. Indie
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    “The investing public could well be saying that George W. Bush LEAVING the White House will be bad for the economy.”

    riiiiiiiiiighhhtt!

    “It is the Democrats in Congress that stand in the way of more oil production.”

    The Republicans have had a stranglehold on Congress since Reagan and nothing has been done about our dependence on foreign oil — where is the republican outcry or leadership to work with — get the democrats to do something — very narrow minded of you to think it’s a gop / dem caused issue —–

  56. sursum
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Moneyhawk: A poll in a Toronto newspaper recently claims 36% of Americans are dead set against NAFTA, however 45% of Canadians are. The reliance on their energy (hydro, natural gas and oi) is no longer a given because rumours of an election this fall, which if the Liberals win, NAFTA could be re-opend and the matter of energy exports will be the first thing revised if not drastically reduced. It might happen because they’ve seen good jobs shipped to Mexico in greater porportion than lost American jobs apparently, as US branch plants just closed up and moved south to Mexico. It was more politically astute to close a plant in Ontario than have layoffs in Ohio. Nobody important would even notice.

  57. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    This is how bad it is:

    #1)”The country exported $22.3 billion worth of aircraft and $9.6 billion worth of aircraft parts through April of this year, according to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis.

    That is an increase of 15.5 percent in aircraft shipments and an 8.2 percent increase in aircraft parts from the same four months in 2007.”

    #2) “The agency today estimated the state’s wheat crop at 366.6 million bushels. That is 3 percent more than last month’s forecast before the harvest began. It is also 29 percent higher than last year’s freeze-plagued crop.

    Nationwide, wheat forecasts also went up Friday to 1.86 billion bushels. That is up 3 percent from last month and up 23 percent above last year.”

    #3) “The University of North Dakota is buying 25 Cessna 172 Skyhawks from Cessna Aircraft Co. in a multi-year contract.”

    #4)”Core inflation was 2.3% in February”

    #5) “the unemployment rate held at 5.5 percent”

    Gramm is right.

  58. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    “You can’t drill your way out of this oil hole.”

    To repeat: This makes as much sense as saying “you can’t drink your way out of thirst or eat your way out of famine.

    Every barrel we get from here is one more barrel we don’t have to get from elsewhere. What does it hurt to drill for our own oil?

  59. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Airplane manufacturers are getting their stock hammered because airlines are going belly up. In the last 6 months 25 airlines have gone out of business, I believ that compared to about 7 after 9/11.
    Oil madness is killing our country!

  60. Indie
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    obviously fleetie you have too much money and time on your hands

  61. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    “obviously fleetie you have too much money and time on your hands”

    You’re half right.

  62. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Monkey, you are, simply WRONG!

    If we sold one barrel to Japan, and bought one barrel from Mexico, that would net out to ZERO on our balance of trade.
    In other words, every DROP we produce will either be used, domestically, or exported.
    There is nothing wrong with exporting oil from Alaska, as that oil will STILL reduce world prices.
    That oil will ALSO provide jobs and tax revenue.

    Every DROP of oil produced, anywhere in the United States, HELPS the United States, no matter where that oil ends up.

    Oil that Japan gets from Alaska is oil that Japan does not have to buy from Mexico or Canada.

    EVERY drop of oil that we produce HELPS the United States.

  63. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Indie
    Read my ENTIRE post.
    I made the point, directly, that economics is only slightly related to politics.
    I did bring up a few arguments that Republicans can make, if Democrats wish to blame housing or energy on Republicans.

  64. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    “There is nothing wrong with exporting oil from Alaska, as that oil will STILL reduce world prices.”

    The trouble with Republicans like Franklin is that they live in some dream world.

    There is no shortage of oil driving the higher cost.

    There IS an abundance of GREED driving the increases.

  65. Political_mama
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Oh that is rich, no wonder McC*nt can’t figure it out. He’s getting advice from idiots.

    I’m going to tell my bill collectors that it’s all a figment of their imaginations lol.

  66. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    “There IS an abundance of GREED driving the increases.”

    Pleased to be wondering your definition of GREED?

  67. JMWalker
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    From March, 2007:
    T. Boone Pickens’ Oil Price Predictions

    T. Boone Pickens, the revered oil investor and sage, just appeared on CNBC this morning to discuss oil prices. If traders pay attention to one man on oil on television, it is he. He is still bullish on oil prices and he thinks we are about to see $70 oil pretty quick. He thinks some of this is more inventory drops and he isn’t sure that the oil to refill it is available. He thinks this is 90% supply and only about 10% geopolitical (Iran). Pickens thinks the gasoline market will stay tight as refineries have been down longer than expected, and he notes that the infrastructure is old (Valero refinery that was supposed to be down 2-3 weeks and will end up being down 2-3 months). The oil available right now is lower quality and he thinks that the 85 million barrels per day is really all the world can produce right now. Pickens did say that if the economy slows it can lower oil demand, but 1.5% to 2% GDP growth where he sees it will still drive oil prices up.

    Pickens noted this morning in his prediction on oil prices per barrel: $75 before $55
    ==============================================

    Looks like t bone was right, and Franklin missed it.

    Problem is, no matter how much oil is produced, it will be used. It will NOT lower prices for oil if we drill the whole freakin country. The only practical thing to do is either go with foreign CAFE standards and raise mandatory mileage to a minimum of 40 MPG or more, and, in the meantime, zero in on zero emission vehicles, either electric, hydrogen or both. Expand rail systems to join all major cities and ports.

    And finally convince this nation it is wasting damn near everything it touches. CONSERVATION, folks: it really works.

  68. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    “CONSERVATION, folks: it really works.”

    Sure it does, but you people seem to think we can’t drill and conserve.

  69. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:32 pm | Permalink
    EVERY drop of oil that we produce HELPS the United States.

    Only in the short run, and only if we assume that in the long run hydrocarbons won’t be the primary energy driver of our national economy.

    The thing you “drill now etc” idiots forgot in your bumpersticker polemic is that “drill now etc” amounts to jacksh*t unless the US creates, realizes poiitically, and maintains a long-term energy policy.

    Otherwise you bozos are just arguing that we suck oil out of our reserves in order to supply gasoline sufficient to drop prices so that we, and the world, demand more gasoline so that prices go up for us, and the world, so that now we need to drill again and now we no longer have domestic supplies and the US is completely dependent on foreign oil….

    Is this even getting through you guys’ heads at all?!?

    The key ain’t “drill now etc.” The key is to have a plan.

  70. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    KansasNative

    Bull buddy, You have no clue what you are talking about.
    There is no way any company can “corner the market” on oil.
    Therefore, there is no way that “greed” can be blamed for current prices.
    Liberals tend to hate Exxon. But Exxon is not even in the top 10, world wide, in total oil production.
    Try to understand basic economics.
    There is “no shortage of oil” because the MARKET dictates that gasoline is worth $4.00 a gallon.

    If the government demanded that gasoline had to be priced at $3.00? We would have MASSIVE shortages.

    Supply has met demand, only because demand was REDUCED by price!

    Production WILL bring down prices.

    Everyone with any brains knows this.

    Why else would the Democrats want to take OPEC to court, to force higher production?

    Why else would some Democrats be talking about taking oil out of our Strategic Petroleum Reserve?

    Gold is expensive because it is rare. If we found a way to turn lead into gold, the price of gold would crash.

    These days? The looney left tells us to wait on “new technology” that can turn some unknown thing into “black gold” or OIL!

    We can’t wait.

    Drill here, drill NOW!

  71. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    Now McC*nt is lying about his POW record. Where are the swift boaters NOW?

    Which was it McShame, the Packers or the Steelers’s names you gave to the Viet Cong?

    Or maybe he sang like a songbird and committed treason.

    Republicans have no shame putting an old senile liar up for President.

  72. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Franklin…you’re party is losing and you just blabber out your butt.

    Sucks to have a loser like McC@nt an old senile fart that lies about his service record for a cundidate.

  73. fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    “Or maybe he sang like a songbird and committed treason.

    Republicans have no shame putting an old senile liar up for President.”

    No shame? Shame on you. You people cannot get into the White House.

  74. Franklin
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    KansasNative
    I will do fine, regardless of the elections.
    Must suck to depend on the government for your well being.

  75. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    YOU Republicans are just a bunch of whiners like Gramm said.

    Drill here drill now! Why? There’s no problem…its all in your head just like Gramm says.

    Franklin needs to watch more O’Reilly cause he’s out of line with the Party.

  76. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    If demand drops more than supply, production will be cut, the price will remain the same, their will be more reserve capacity. And, you’ve gained what?

  77. littlejohn
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    “Airplane manufacturers are getting their stock hammered because airlines are going belly up. In the last 6 months 25 airlines have gone out of business, I believ that compared to about 7 after 9/11.”

    Please substantiate

  78. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    The other problem driving prices is that our balance of trade is so out of whack because we import our food, non-durable and durable goods, and energy, that the dollar is quickly becoming worthless to our suppliers, and they demand more of them.
    So the speculators are trying to hedge by investing in oil.

  79. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Donehttp://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=565&fArticleId=4496844.

  80. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=565&fArticleId=4496844.

  81. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:02 pm | Permalink
    The other problem driving prices is that our balance of trade is so out of whack because we import our food, non-durable and durable goods, and energy, that the dollar is quickly becoming worthless to our suppliers, and they demand more of them.
    So the speculators are trying to hedge by investing in oil.

    Great point. Yes, dollar-holding forex investors are hedging by investing in oil…which of course further drives the dollar down…which leads to further forex hedging….[loop]

    Right now it appears that the US can’t save its way out of the current account deficit. What would help like who laid the chunk is a rock-solid energy policy. At least it would let us quantify the biggest dollar-funded import “liability” against our current account.

  82. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    “further forex hedging” = dumping dollars for oil

    Sorry.

    Which furthers the supply of dollars and increases the demand for oil…which drives the price of crude up.

  83. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Franklin…I’m doing quite well thank you.

    I don’t even depend or need oil like you sorry Republicans.

    Oil can be $1000 a barrel and it won’t affect my well being in the least.

    My Secret?

    Ohhhh….that would be telling!

  84. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    sorry = whining Republicans

  85. Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    First of all, about Phil Gramm. This Country owes him a debt we can never repay. In 93 when “Hillary Care” was rolling through Congress and appeared to be heading for passage. When Bob Dole and the other linguini spined Republican leaders were ready to cut a deal and pass the thing, it was Phil Gramm who stood up and said “NO, this is socialized medicine and its wrong for America”. He led the fight that defeated Hillary Care and paved the way for the Republican takeover of Congress in 94.
    Phil Gramm was right in 93 and he was right yesterday. The ailing economy is not as bad as the “elect Obama at any cost” media would have you believe. The #1 goal of the media right now is to make Mr and Mrs. America feel bad about themselves, their Country, and their future. They did the same thing in 92 when Bill Clinton ran on the “its the economy stupid” theme. They echoed Clintons claim that it was the “worst economy since the 30’s” and helped elect him that sorry election year. Only after the election did they finally admit that the recession of the early nineties had ended in the second quarter of 92 and by election day the economy was well on its way to recovery. His choice of words could have been better, but essentially he was right.

  86. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Chrisfrommactown
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:26 pm | Permalink
    First of all, about Phil Gramm. This Country owes him a debt we can never repay. In 93 when “Hillary Care” was rolling through Congress and appeared to be heading for passage. When Bob Dole and the other linguini spined Republican leaders were ready to cut a deal and pass the thing, it was Phil Gramm who stood up and said “NO, this is socialized medicine and its wrong for America”. He led the fight that defeated Hillary Care and paved the way for the Republican takeover of Congress in 94.
    Phil Gramm was right in 93 and he was right yesterday. The ailing economy is not as bad as the “elect Obama at any cost” media would have you believe. The #1 goal of the media right now is to make Mr and Mrs. America feel bad about themselves, their Country, and their future. They did the same thing in 92 when Bill Clinton ran on the “its the economy stupid” theme. They echoed Clintons claim that it was the “worst economy since the 30’s” and helped elect him that sorry election year. Only after the election did they finally admit that the recession of the early nineties had ended in the second quarter of 92 and by election day the economy was well on its way to recovery. His choice of words could have been better, but essentially he was right.

    Yes, shame on Americans for insisting that Federal policy raise all ships, not just the yachts. Shame on Americans for having invested in the American dream, in other words.

    You can blame the eee-vil MSM if you like, but you’d probably be as close, if not way closer. to the truth if you just examined today’s economy in the light of fiscal and monetary policies of 2000-2008.

    :lol:

  87. Predestined
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    We are fortunate enough to live in the greatest country in the world, full of opportunities.

    While this has been true in the past, the opportunities have been slipping for at least 7-8 years. Ask anyone in Ohio and Pennsylvania about all the opportunites there. We are quickly becoming a nation of imports, when we used to lead the world in exports. Our opportunities are being outsourced, while corporations are hiding funds in offshore accounts, skipping taxes that we aren’t able to avoid paying.

    When the U.S. becomes a 100% service economy, who will be buying the imported goods and enjoying the homegrown services? When everything you bring home in your paycheck goes only for necessities (food, housing, gas), where will the money come from to buy those foreign made jet skis and flat screen TV’s?0

    Gramm’s right. Watching my bank balance drop more quickly is only my imagination. /sarcasm

  88. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Chris…quit your whining…oops! that’s the Republican way…

    Its ALL CLINTONS FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

  89. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    BTW CHRIS”’HOW ‘BOUT DETAILING FOR US MCC*NT’S ECONOMIC PLAN?

  90. KansasNative
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Let me help you out Chris…McC*nt’s economic plan is:

    continue 100-1000 year war in Iraq/Iran

    more Americans die = more jobs

    That’s “4 more years of Bush”’s plan…

  91. JMWalker
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    #
    fleettwood
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    “CONSERVATION, folks: it really works.”

    Sure it does, but you people seem to think we can’t drill and conserve.
    ==================================================
    We can’t, otherwise, we would have done so when gas was $0.19 a gallon. Conservation wasn’t even a buzz word until Silent Spring. Look at Europe. They are so far ahead of us on conservation, as to make us look like addicts in a shooting gallery. Holland would be underwater without their brilliant dike system, and we still use sand bags, and they’re using those same dikes to generate electricy. Duh . . . Fleetwood, you got a real problem seeing life as it actually is, and not through your con-colored glasses. But keep posted to your $400 million dollar man; he’ll tell you exactly how to live with higher gas prices, and how it’s the liberals fault (snicker)

    Drilling will do nothing to lower gas prices, other than a few cents. To think otherwise is to still believe in the tooth fairy.

  92. Regular
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Actually, drilling will make the cost of gas go down because it will cause the price speculators to deal with increased supply that trumps current usage.

  93. beber
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    “Phil Gramm’s statement didn’t affect me nearly as much as Obama’s statement that we had better be teaching our children spanish. Makes me wonder what he has planned for the future of the greatest nation in the world.” – okob

    People who are educated?

  94. JMWalker
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    #
    Regular
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Actually, drilling will make the cost of gas go down because it will cause the price speculators to deal with increased supply that trumps current usage.
    ==============================================
    Check under your pillow.

  95. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    “Actually, drilling will make the cost of gas go down because it will cause the price speculators to deal with increased supply that trumps current usage.”

    False.

    Speculators ain’t dumb. They know exactly when the price will change due to increases in US domestic supply additions to the world market.

    Believe me, their spreadsheets will account for every drop that’s oh so carefully accounted for in US law.

    The only way to make speculators bid down crude prices enough to affect US gasoline prices is to nationalize any new US additions to world supply.

    It’s the same bottom line: the only way to affect US gasoline prices, given a world crude market, is to nationalize US production.

  96. cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    “Actually, drilling will make the cost of gas go down because it will cause the price speculators to deal with increased supply that trumps current usage.”
    ——————–

    Only if you flunked econ101, and don’t live in reality.

    1) It’ll take a couple of decades for new drilling to possibly produce a meaningful amount.

    2) OPEC can easily countermand any supply increases.

    3) New sources will only (possibly) help offset other declining domestic sources.

    4) New sources will not keep up with increased future demand, unless we become more efficient.

    5) Higher efficiency can “produce” more, sooner, faster, cheaper, and cleaner. It’s also guaranteed, and doesn’t run dry.

    http://www.sierraclub.org/gasprices/

    http://www.sierraclub.org/energy/biggestsinglestep/
    “The biggest single step the United States can take to curb global warming and save oil is to raise the fuel economy of our cars and light trucks.”

  97. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    beber
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:00 pm | Permalink
    “Phil Gramm’s statement didn’t affect me nearly as much as Obama’s statement that we had better be teaching our children spanish. Makes me wonder what he has planned for the future of the greatest nation in the world.” – okob

    People who are educated?
    ——————-
    So in your world you have to speak spanish to be educated. Why not french or german or italian?

  98. Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    I think all the cons should drill a hole in their head.

    There might be oil! You don’t know. Give it a shot.

    McCain can try to crawdad outta this all he likes. Gramm is likely reflecting much the same that McCain holds true.

    Remember when old John talked about those 40 dollar an hour lettuce picking jobs?

    I never heard back from him on that.

    The rich (well, the cons among them anyway) LIKE getting richer. The worse it is for everyone else, the better it is for them! You can bet the con rich supporters of McCain are HOPING it gets worse for everyone else but them.

  99. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Cosmos your mind is in lock mode. Your only idea is higher fuel economy standards. Look around you. What do you see. People driving older model cars. Cars that aren’t fuel efficient. The very people who are being hurt most by the high fuel costs. They can barely pay for food and fuel and now you want them to buy a more efficient car. Or maybe the government could just give everyone a more fuel friendly car.

    The GWers have tunnel vision. Drilling will and has put fuel in the pipeline. The Bakken field in the Dakotas is a prime example. This will hit the market and gas will start to inch down. We are behind the eight ball and environmentalists have kept us there for 20 years.

    We have to drill now, drill here and we will be paying less.

  100. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    “It’s the same bottom line: the only way to affect US gasoline prices, given a world crude market, is to nationalize US production.”

    Should read: “It’s the same bottom line: the only way to affect US gasoline prices in the short term (ie, in the promise made by “drill now” etc) , given a world crude market, is to nationalize US production.

  101. outlander
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand those folks who are against drilling offshore and in Alaska for the stated reason that it will be 10 years plus before we see full production of the oil fields.

    If that is the case, then shouldn’t we get started immediately? Barring some magic energy solution, you have to realize that the oil is going to be utilized at some point. As part of the energy gobbling world community, don’t we have a responsibility to contribute to world supplies?

    Now is as good a time as any.

  102. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    If you want to lower US gas prices today — or by date xyz — increasing US production of gasoline, given a world market, then you’ll have to prevent sale of that production to the world.

    In other words, you’ll have to restrict sales to US wholesalers by date xyz less aggregate shipment time.

    And that’s just another way of saying you’ll have to nationalize the US production of gas just before you want to lower prices to US consumers.

    It’s really just that simple.

  103. outlander
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Or maybe the environmental wackos are playing it smart. Unintentionally of course.

    Be selfish. Why use our oil when others will sell it to us? Let the rest of the world exhaust their resources.

  104. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    outlander
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:38 pm | Permalink
    I don’t understand those folks who are against drilling offshore and in Alaska for the stated reason that it will be 10 years plus before we see full production of the oil fields.

    If that is the case, then shouldn’t we get started immediately? Barring some magic energy solution, you have to realize that the oil is going to be utilized at some point. As part of the energy gobbling world community, don’t we have a responsibility to contribute to world supplies?

    Now is as good a time as any.

    That will certainly increase world crude supply, no question. In fact, it will use our oil reserves exclusively to accomplish that goal.

    This is COMPLETELY different argument than “drill here drill now” though.

    Apples and oranges.

    Again, affecting future US gasoline prices depends on a comprehensive, politically cohesive, long-term US energy policy.

    Now is at least 8 years PAST as good a time as any.

  105. Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    We have to change how we live. And that means ALL of us. Not just those who volunteer.

    My son lives less than a mile from his soon to be high school. He will walk or ride his bike.

    Whether he likes it or not. I have forbidden him to own a car before age 18.

  106. outlander
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    I believe that Alaskan oil has that restriction now Pedant.

  107. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Christ on high, I hate typepad and it’s crappy editor.

    “In other words, you’ll have to restrict sales to US wholesalers by date xyz less aggregate shipment time.”

    Should read: “In other words, you’ll have to restrict sales by US wholesalers to US gasoline retailers by date xyz less aggregate shipment time.”

  108. JMWalker
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    #
    okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    beber
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:00 pm | Permalink
    “Phil Gramm’s statement didn’t affect me nearly as much as Obama’s statement that we had better be teaching our children spanish. Makes me wonder what he has planned for the future of the greatest nation in the world.” – okob

    People who are educated?
    ——————-
    So in your world you have to speak spanish to be educated. Why not french or german or italian?
    =============================================
    Well, the more languages one can speak, the better educated one usually is. But take it from the republicans: English is the only language necessary for them. Hell, Rush told them so.

    okobserver, just what is your problem with educated people, they intimidate you?

  109. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Great if true, outlander.

    Now, what effect will “drill Alaska drill now” (ie supply) have on US gasoline prices? When will that price change take effect?

    What direct effect will ANWR drilling have on US gasoline prices today? Because I’m reading that the effect on US gasoline prices today of Alaskan production today, assuming it’s even sold exclusively to the US domestic petrol market, is minimal (but real, I admit).

    At any rate, note that the “drill now” bozos don’t say “drill ALASKA drill now,” now do they?

  110. Regular
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    “Actually, drilling will make the cost of gas go down because it will cause the price speculators to deal with increased supply that trumps current usage.”
    ——————–

    Only if you flunked econ101, and don’t live in reality.

    1) It’ll take a couple of decades for new drilling to possibly produce a meaningful amount.

    2) OPEC can easily countermand any supply increases.

    3) New sources will only (possibly) help offset other declining domestic sources.

    4) New sources will not keep up with increased future demand, unless we become more efficient.

    5) Higher efficiency can “produce” more, sooner, faster, cheaper, and cleaner. It’s also guaranteed, and doesn’t run dry.

    http://www.sierraclub.org/gasprices/

    http://www.sierraclub.org/energy/biggestsinglestep/
    “The biggest single step the United States can take to curb global warming and save oil is to raise the fuel economy of our cars and light trucks.
    —————————–
    You’ve never watched a crew of roughnecks on a drilling rig have you?

    It doesn’t take 20 years to drill out oil, and once it is hit it doesn’t take 20 years to get it in the pipeline, nor does it take 20 years for it to be refined.

    We’re talking less than a years time for a rig to be productive from field to market.

  111. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Let’s assume that ANWR drilling alone drops US prices by a $0.01.

    Where will that lead us?

    ANS: to demand for additional gasoline at the US market price.

    Unless we know where we as a nation want to end up with regard to energy sources, is that a good thing?

    ANS: No, it ain’t.

  112. cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    “We’re talking less than a years time for a rig to be productive from field to market.”
    —————-

    One rig does not produce a significant amount.

    I’m talking about new domestic sources, and the the only major one is the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

    Tell us ‘Regular’, how much time it would take to (possibly) get a significant amount of oil from the Arctic Refuge. And provide links.

    And tell how much Badami is producing.

  113. Pedant
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    I would also note the pressure that potential ANWR producers would very likely bring to bear on national politics via their Alaskan representation.

    Namely, they’ll be workin’ it every election year, arguing “why should we have to sell at a price below market?” until they realize the only rational answer, “you don’t.”

    In short, ANWR oil being somehow corralled solely for US domestic use is fools’ gold, and anybody who believes these producers won’t find a way around that idiocy will be complicit in giving away our own scarce national resources.

    The answer, again, is a rational energy policy for the USA.

  114. StevenEDavis
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    BlueJay
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:46 pm | Permalink
    We have to change how we live. And that means ALL of us. Not just those who volunteer.

    My son lives less than a mile from his soon to be high school. He will walk or ride his bike.

    Whether he likes it or not. I have forbidden him to own a car before age 18.
    **********

    Sorry, Jay,

    I have a son who will turn 16 in August (on Bill Clinton’s birthday in fact). I would like to talk to you in a couple of years from now.

    I think I may be hearing a different song from you… But maybe, not.

  115. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Mr Walker not sure what your problem is. My husband, myself and our three sons have degrees. I don’t think you can ever have too much education. I personally have taken french and 2 years of spanish. One year of latin which was a complete waste. It is truely a dead language.

    I don’t speak any of them fluently. Can read them and can pick up an ocassional word I understand. My point is why would our children have to speak spanish when we are told that we need to be tolerant of legal and illegals not knowing how to speak english. First things first I always say. Think of the dollars our school systems would save if we weren’t required to have translators in the classrooms.

    Don’t be so quick to jump. I still wonder what he has planned.

  116. cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of fool’s gold, read,

    ‘E01-04, Fool’s Gold in Alaska—annotated’

    about 3 screens down from here,
    http://old.rmi.org/sitepages/pid171.php#LibEnergyPol

  117. Regular
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 11, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    “We’re talking less than a years time for a rig to be productive from field to market.”
    —————-

    One rig does not produce a significant amount.

    I’m talking about new domestic sources, and the the only major one is the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

    Tell us ‘Regular’, how much time it would take to (possibly) get a significant amount of oil from the Arctic Refuge. And provide links
    ———————–
    It will take infinitely longer if we never start.

  118. Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Nope not gonna change my mind about this Steven.

    I have told my son he needs to take hands on courses. He needs to do internet research. He needs to figure out how to get wheels that don’t use gasoline.

    I’ve…also told him that an electric scooter on a first date is a hug on the way to the movies and on the way home!

  119. cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,

    How much is Badami producing?

    And how much does it cost to produce it?

  120. okobserver
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    BJ lets just hope his first date isn’t in the winter. Admirable thoughts but I will admit I was glad when my kids were old enough to drive.

  121. lindainks55
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    I hope it works out BlueJay. I ask you not to be so inflexible that you lose him. I sound unreasonable, I know. But teenagers are in a hurry to be independent without understanding what they’re asking for. It’s the years lots of guidance that doesn’t seem “jail” is required. I always think of the old country song, “Velvet Ropes.”

    Maybe stressing that he must keep his grades up and attendance at school daily is a must, then if he can raise the money at after school / summer jobs… ?? The car must be one that is safe and reliable.

    I found (it has been years ago) the way to keep my kids home was let them buy the car with insistence they pay all the costs — insurance, maintenance, gas… kept them broke and home.

  122. lindainks55
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    My oldest daughter (you’ve met her BlueJay) will be 43 next month. When she was 16 years old she came to her Dad and I with $2,000 she had saved and asked her Dad to help her find a car.

    The way he tells the story today is they would walk onto a car lot, he would ask what they had that was little and cute (her requirements) for under $2,000. He says the salesmen usually asked if he was talking women or cars.

    Finally found a car through an acquaintance. She worked a deal with the teacher of the auto mechanics class for all maintenance including regular oil changes. She is pretty, was a cheer leader, etc. and still to this day a charmer and a diplomat. Owning that car taught her a lot!

    Our oldest son bought a car when he was only 15 that had to be totally rebuilt. He and his Dad spent a year laying under and leaning over that car. It was a great year for both of them! By the time he had his license they had been through every nut and bolt. Even sewed new seat covers! Trust me he had many hours in that car and truly appreciated it so took care of it.

    Thought through and with loving rules the buying and taking care of a car can teach many lessons.

  123. lindainks55
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    Should have prefaced ALL my advice by saying YOU, the parent will know what is best for your son and your situation. Should have said that first, ’cause no matter how much advice you’re given you really do know best! ;-) You’ve done it well for a lot of years an you’ll know what is best as you meet the coming years!

  124. Phantom
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    From our history, increasing the supply to the west coast results in a glut, and it’s further to ship it across the U.S. than overseas. Interesting read.
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002245699_export17m.html

  125. cosmos_originally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,

    I’ll answer my questions for you.

    A technically recoverable analysis,
    http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arctic_national_wildlife_refuge/html/execsummary.html
    “Even with nearby production infrastructure, 7 to 12 years would be needed for lease sales, permitting and environmental reviews after approval for leasing.”
    —————-

    And that’s ignoring the very likely delays caused by lawsuits.

    Additional years would be required to ramp up production — assuming boycotts and/or other factors didn’t stop the oil companies.

    There are also large economic risks with using the old, worn TAPS system for another 5+ decades. And the warming Alaskan climate may require replacing many of the VSM’s.

    Plus it wont lower gasoline price by much, if at all. . .

    EIA links at bottom of the PDF
    http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/PennyaGallon20yrs1.pdf
    ——–

    Badami shutdown due to lower than expected production. It restarted when oil prices rose, but still is a very low producer.

  126. Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Oh let me sum up Gramm, McCain, bush and ALL their shills here.

    From “1776″ a week late but no less correct….

    “Dickinson:
    Oh say do you see what I see?
    Congress sitting here in sweet serenity
    I could cheer; the reason’s clear
    For the first time in a year Adams isn’t here
    And look, the sun is in the sky
    A breeze is blowing by, and there’s not a single fly

    I sing hosanna, hosanna
    Hosanna, hosanna
    And it’s cool

    Come ye cool cool conservative men
    The likes of which may never be seen again
    We have land, cash in hand
    Self-command, future planned
    Fortune flies, society survives
    In neatly ordered lives with well-endowered wives

    We sing hosanna, hosanna
    To our breeding and our banner
    We are cool

    Come ye cool cool considerate set
    We’ll dance together to the same minuet
    To the right, ever to the right
    Never to the left, forever to the right
    May our creed be never to exceed
    Regulated speed, no matter what the need

    We sing hosanna, hosanna
    Enblazoned on our banner
    Is keep cool

    What we do we do rationally
    We never ever go off half-cocked, not we
    Why begin till we know that we can win
    And if we cannot win why bother to begin?
    Rutledge:
    We say this game’s not of our choosing
    Why should we risk losing?
    All:
    We are cool

    To the right, ever to the right
    Never to the left, forever to the right
    We have gold, a market that will hold
    Tradition that is old, a reluctance to be bold.
    Dickinson:
    I sing hosanna, hosanna
    In a sane and lucid manner
    We are cool
    All:
    Come ye cool cool considerate men
    The likes of which may never be seen again
    With our land, cash in hand
    Self-command, future planned
    And we’ll hold to our gold
    Tradition that is old, reluctant to be bold.
    We say this game’s not of our choosing
    Why should we risk losing?

    We cool, cool, cool
    Cool, cool, cool
    Cool cool men.

  127. Posted July 12, 2008 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    So far the economy here are very helpfull and friendly, it’s also nice I can understand what they are saying (well mostly). It’s the world but I’m not sure I’d go again – there wasn’t much to do. Only a fraction of America, although I feel pretty fulfilled that we’ve seen and done.

  128. Agnatha
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    “Gramm is absolutely right. We sound like spoiled whiners. Led by the chorus from the MSM.”

    Wouldn’t you like to think so? Actually, the “whining” comes from the grocery store and the gas pump and during bill time. People know that they are losing ground, and that is what drives their perspective on the economy, not mainstream media reporting on the stock market or anything else. Here is the thing though, I think this is inevitable. Right now, the “greatest country in the world” (and make no mistake, I am grateful to live here) is now propped up largely by being the primary customer to a number of manufacturing countries, especially the world’s largest communist dictatorship (why else do we now have the curious spectacle of having the developed, democratic world’s more “conservative” leaders now saying they will attend the Bejing Olympics, while the developed, democratic world’s more “liberal” leaders are saying they will pass?). I think that we are seeing a correction that is inevitable. However, we still do have the most robust economy on Earth for the moment (that will change by 2030, assuming that China remains stable), and that gives us a chance to make adjustments that will allow us to grow an economy. To the extent that government policy has an effect on our economy, it will require people who are willing to make unpopular decisions. Unfortunately, now more than ever, people in office are punished for that.

    “We are fortunate enough to live in the greatest country in the world, full of opportunities. But most of us would rather sit on the porch and whine than go do something about it.”

    I don’t see people sitting on the porch whining about it. I do see people who have to travel as part of their jobs taking new positions, and I see people having to take second and even third jobs to hold onto their homes.

    Gramm’s comments probably will not have an effect on the election, but McCain was politically right to distance himself from them. Because Gramm’s comments are very similar to this extent to the infamous comments of Bush the Elder prior to the 1992 election. They are clueless.

  129. Agnatha
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Right now, the difference between a Democrat and a Republican in 2008 (as it was in 1992).

    Both are trying to convince the foul weather voters that they are part of a populist uprising.

    The Democrats are trying to convince the fwv that there is a popular uprising against a tiny group of rich and corporate interest whose measures of economic progress don’t take into consideration anyone who is not them.

    The Republicans are trying to convince the fwv that there is a popular uprising against those who will take from the hardworking and give to the lazy.

    Democrats: The haves are taking from the hardworking.

    Republicans: The lazy have nots are taking from the hardworking (who are by definition the haves).

    There are of course also social hot button issues, but they are not the issues foul weather voters are concerned about. Iraq is on people’s minds, but it is not primary. Economics is the battleground. Convincing those who are not obsessed with politics as to whether they are the hardworking haves, or the hardworking have nots.

  130. Phantom
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Bush dare not insult our financier, and supplier of goods. The days of dollar diplomacy are gone, we are now in a self inflicted era of Yuan diplomacy.

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