Now that the constitutionality of private gun ownership is settled, can we talk about the frequent use of guns for suicides? According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data, suicides accounted for 55 percent of nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005. Not that 2005 stood out: Suicides by firearm have outnumbered gun homicides and accidents for 20 of the past 25 years. Suicide by gunshot, often involving depression and substance abuse, also is the most used method in Sedgwick County, far outnumbering hanging and drug intoxication among 2006’s 53 suicides.
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139 Comments
Suicide is a choice, not a tragedy. In fact, it usually ends a tragedy.
I detect sour grapes from the ruling of the unconstitutionality of the D.C. Gun ban.
Geez, mis-direction so early… Could be a LONG day!!
There are many ways to kill yourself. Using a gun is just a particularly efficient way of doing it.
If a person is determined to kill themselves, by all means, use a gun. The gene pool doesn’t need your contribution anyway.
Suicide: The sincerest form of self-criticism.
Also, from Rhonda’s link:
“Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University’s College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.”
estimates = guesses
Regular
Posted July 6, 2008 at 7:23 am | Permalink
I detect sour grapes from the ruling of the unconstitutionality of the D.C. Gun ban.
Sour grapes from the Eagle’s resident super right winger?
Hmmm…more paranoid delusions from a typical Republican.
beber, go criticise yourself.
Wow Nano, such compassion you have for the mentally ill or severely depressed…I wonder what tune you’d be singing if your son’s girlfriend broke up with him and he impulsively put a gun to his head?
People who choose less lethal ways to attempt suicide can often survive and get the help they need. You can still make a phone call after you swallow pills, but put a gun in your mouth and it’s a whole different ending.
I’ve seen too many teenagers die this way when all they needed was help to mature and realize that many problems that seem overwhelming are only temporary.
That goes for you too, Beber….what do you want to bet that both Nano and Beber consider themselves “Christians”?
To quote that most famous thinker, Archie Bunker, “Would it make you feel better if they went out of a window?”. The problem is not guns cause suicide, you might as well be saying that milk does.
Or that driving a car causes drunk driving, no its the blame game and looking away from the real problem.
“I detect sour grapes from the ruling of the unconstitutionality of the D.C. Gun ban.”
The D.C. police spokesperson when asked if the repeal of the gun ban will increase or decrease the crime replied “I don’t know if it will increase or decrease, but what we Do know is that the number of suicides and accidental guns deaths WIll increase”.
Like I’ve said before, if CC laws are such a great idea, then why is there no police force in the USA that support them?
wrong wirter dog…I’ve worked in teh psychatric feild for many years, and I can honestly tell you that people who survive suicide attempts often go on to have happy and productive lives…suicidal ideation is most often a temporary thing…but putting a gun to your head is not.
Wow, ‘cuse my typos.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted July 6, 2008 at 9:40 am | Permalink
That goes for you too, Beber….what do you want to bet that both Nano and Beber consider themselves “Christians”?
Mary, as usual, you’re very judgmental today.
Dingbat
Well, Am I wrong or right? Do you believe in the Bible or not?
It’s a pertinent issue given that a huge number of firearm suicides are actually murder suicides.
Off yourself if you’ve got to (although suicide is usually a permanent solution to a temporary problem), but you’re likely to have a tough time hanging your spouse before you string yourself up.
Close the garage door and crank up the Buick, but just try to get the family to sit in the car with you.
Ah, but a gun makes murder-suicide so convenient! It adds a little machismo hunter sport at the last moments of a family-annihilater’s life. It’s the American way!
I have no idea how restraining orders work, but seems to me that if a family member or loved one had a clue or legitimate worry about someone’s depression or self-destructive potential, it shouldn’t be out of line to separate that person from firearms; not to protect him from himself, but to reduce the chance of murder-suicide.
If I recall suicide statistics correctly, gun suicides were committed almost entirely by males, with other, less violent methods preferred by females (overdose being the primary). I would suspect that males in the abscence of the ability to procure a gun) would find another equally violent and effective method.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted July 6, 2008 at 10:00 am | Permalink
Well, Am I wrong or right? Do you believe in the Bible or not?
__________________________________________________
Yes indeed, Mary. I am a proud Christian. But your statement was more of an accusation than a question.
I have Faith. You have nothing. It must suck to be you.
Mary,
You forgot to accuse me of being a Republican or a Conservative. I’ve already had a moron accuse me of being a Democrat and a Lib this morning.
Just as I thought…’nuff said.
Nano – North American Nincompoop Organization
Mary if I made the statement that “if Wal-Mart did not sell rope the poor man would not have hung himself!”. What would the reaction be? The problem is not methodology but the motivation.
If you are one whom is looking in from the outside often the reasoning does not seem to be enough to kill one’s self. I have a cousin whom survived a attempt with a 30-30 deer rifle, he carried a 4.0 GPA in college and had the brightest of futures. The problem was he was so shy around women he could not even talk to them. Tall, handsome and a good person. He was driven so badly by the want and needs to be with the fairer sex and his frustration at not having the nerve.
It was not the fact that in the corner of the room was a gun cabinet with a heavy bore rifle. That was his methodology not his motivation. There is a real desire for a quick fix in many troubling things, blame porn for rape and Twinkies for crime. Are guns deadly of course that is what they are suppose to be, but they are not the only deadly things to use. So if we address the use of guns in suicide, will that stop or slow down the rate of suicide?
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted July 6, 2008 at 10:09 am | Permalink
Just as I thought…’nuff said.
Nothing like having a superiority complex, huh Mary?
Arrogant dingbat.
#
SquarePeg
Posted July 6, 2008 at 10:10 am | Permalink
Nano – North American Nincompoop Organization
Oh, how clever!
Psychiatrists have long recognized that there is simply no way to prevent someone from killing himself if he or she is bound and determined to do so.
Possession of a firearm only makes it a little simpler. A high school friend of mine killed himself by asphyxiation. No one in his family owned a gun. People have leaped from skyscrapers, hanged themselves, gassed themselves, ingested poison, etc. Not having a gun didn’t stop them.
Suicide is no joking matter – obviously it ends the life of the victim, but it also destroys the lives of those closest to him or her that are left behind.
It is true that someone that is bound and determined to kill themselves cannot be stopped, but for many young people, the decision to commit suicide is impulsive.
Ten years ago, my daughter’s cousin killed himself with a shotgun at his stepfather’s house. He had been using Estacy that day, but was not high at the time. He had a long phone conversation with an unknown person and then picked up the shotgun when he put down the phone.
No one can ever know what went through his mind or whether he had considered that option before or whether something said during that phone call was the proverbial last straw.
Banning guns is not an answer – there are no real answers – young people have been killing themselves since the beginning of time.
Families and friends need to recognize warning signs of depression and suicidal tendencies in young people.
I often say the a parents primary job regarding their children is to “keep them alive until they’re twenty-five.”
Jason didn’t make it – he was just twenty-four.
“Like I’ve said before, if CC laws are such a great idea, then why is there no police force in the USA that support them?”
Mary,
Most police do support CCW by FAR, it’s the political leadership that mouths otherwise.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gt3AxeUOJfMJ:www.worldexaminer.com/worldexaminer/concealed_carry/index.html+percentage+of+police+supporting+concealed+carry&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a
“National surveys of police show they support concealed handgun laws by a 3-1 margin….There is also not a single academic study that claims Right to Carry laws have increased state crime rates. The debate among academics has been over how large the benefits have been.””
Sheriff Says Criminals Avoid Areas with High CCW Issuance, Wishes More Citizens Would Carry
Referring to the concealed carry permit numbers:
“Actually, I wish it was a higher number, because I know from experience that offenders in the jail system tell me they avoid crimes against people because they know there is a very high concealed-carry rate,” Maketa said.”
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gt3AxeUOJfMJ:www.worldexaminer.com/worldexaminer/concealed_carry/index.html+percentage+of+police+supporting+concealed+carry&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Interesting how non of the gun issue partisans want to talk about my post up-thread which addresses the real-world situation of murder-suicide.
The gun nuts can’t argue against it and the gun-banners (so they’re called) don’t exactly know what to deal with a radically-moderate approach to the issues at hand.
Oh, and “Boxlock” –
I would never do anything to prevent you from committing suicide.
It’d probably be an improvement for all of our lives.
Suicide is horrible.
Murder-suicide is even more horrible.
However, if we do the math, it is easy to see that the “right to keep and bear arms” — in preventing murder and other crimes, more than off sets the deaths in “murder-suicide” cases.
A cold calculation, perhaps, but tough political and social decisions SHOULD be cold calculations, made without emotion.
As far as individual suicides go?
Please do NOT use Tylenol, if you are trying to kill yourself. There are things worse than a hand gun. If you think that overdose with Acetominophine is a painless, reversable option, you are truly insane.
You will very likely still die, but it will be a long, painful death by liver failure.
It is hard to get a liver transplant, when you have suicidal history.
Again, there are methods of suicide that are far worse than hand guns.
— This all comes down to the role that the government should play in our lives. Humble, reasonable people realize that there IS a limit to what any government can do, to stop people from doing stupid things. If a government tries too hard, to stop bad decisions, that government will trample on the rights of those who are not prone to making stupid decisions. That government, that tries too hard to “nanny-state” everyone, will also make it harder for the average person to secure his or her own safety.
Another thought — if suicide is such a horrible thing, why do the liberals generally hate guns but love Dr. Death, Jack Kevorkian?
Do you think that everyone who agrees to medically-assisted suicide is free from the “depression” and other emotional issues involved in all suicides?
Gosh folks
In the last couple weeks, we have had at least 3 of the well known Democrats and Liberals on this Blog openly wish for the deaths of Republicans on this Blog.
Gee, aren’t those Democrats such nice, compassionate people?
Mary,
I am not seeing your logic here. What does being a Christian have to do with this topic?
The problem with this entire topic is that the question is wrong.
“How to stop gun suicide?”
The question should more accurately be:
How do you stop suicide?
I am not sure you can stop someone determined to kill themselves, from doing so.
However, there are a multitude of things we can do to help prevent someone from killing themselves.
As has already been said here several times, suicidal thoughts are usually only temporary. Whatever is so awful in someones life to make them want to kill themselves will usually pass or the emotions they have will not be so strong.
If we can continue to work on seeing the symptoms of suicide and how to address them, that would be a good start.
Having services available to those who are suicidal would be the next thing to do.
But when you see this as a problem of guns, then I don’t think you are very serious about stopping or preventing suicide at all, rather pushing the same old anti-gun agenda.
“Oh, and “Boxlock” –
I would never do anything to prevent you from committing suicide.
It’d probably be an improvement for all of our lives.”
Witness the petty, small character of the Monkey.
The ‘compassionate liberal’.
No wonder his parties mascot is a jackass, as is he.
http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=BDX/BDX322/bxp58623.jpg
I think the reason is that we’re talking about young people committing suicide, not elderly. Elderly is the second highest group, not far behind young people. The reasons for their suicides are far different than for the young.
And usually its well planned, they or their loved one is terminal, and are just trying to spare themselves the pain of a long, painful, and expensive death- so they end it before they get to the point that they can’t physically do it.
That’s why I support physician assisted suicide, it would keep these people from ending it too soon, give friends and family a chance to say goodbye, and wouldn’t carry the stigma. It would also cut down on murder/suicide rates. It would also address REAL depression in the elderly, which too often goes undiagnosed or misdiagnosed as just part of the aging process.
Suicide is not only hurting the person killing themselves.
All this talk about someone killing themselves as being good, or cleaning the gene pool, is simply sick.
The people that kill themselves are hurting an entire circle of people. Starting with their kids and/or spouse, parents, family, friends, and coworkers.
When you end your life, you are hurting so many others as well.
It is our job as family, friends, and just plain good people to help others when we see them in pain and need.
In most suicides, they will give you signs. They will say certain things, they will be acting differently. You need to watch for these signs and if you know someone who has them, talk to them, and get them help.
Yes, a gun is an awful and yet effective way to kill yourself.
However, I’m guessing the motivation in using one is that it is effective.
There are many other effective ways of killing yourself besides using a gun. If someone wants to be effective in killing themselves, not having a gun isn’t going to change anything.
As I said earlier, they need help. A gun is not the problem.
You can look at countries like Japan, where they have a huge suicide rate, yet no guns.
If you are going to compare industrialized countries to one another for your fight against guns, then lets compare them in all circumstances.
Poor wittle “Boxwock” got his wittle feewings hurt.
And the poodles are out dancing around the issue I brought up: that firearm suicides often all too often become murder-suicides.
“Franklin” chimed in with how suicide-by-Tylenol isn’t as efficient as suicide by handgun.
Well, duh.
Guess what? Murder-suicide is even more complicated if your weapon of choice is a Tylenol overdose.
And somebody played the Kevorkian card? Talk about a desperate attempt to change the subject.
As I made pretty clear in my original post, I think suicide is a personal issue. If you don’t want to live, don’t.
But, as a member of the reality-based community, I posited that the increased threat to family, neighbors, loved-ones, co-workers, and just about anyone else is exacerbated when they deal with a suicidal person with a firearm. And that family members or loved ones should have some way to protect themselves if they fear someone near to them might have suicidal tendencies and firearms.
Somehow I suspect that might be a greater threat to public safety if one demonstrates self-destructive behavior and has a bunch of Tylenol handy.
As soon as there’s a story about a disgruntled employee going into a factory or office and forces Tylenol down the gullets of his supervisors and co-workers before swallowing a bunch of pills himself, “Franlin’s” comment might be relevant. Not ’til then, however.
MonkeyHawk,
So just what exactly are the numbers for murder-suicide?
If just about 30,000 are killed with the use of a gun each year and about 20,000 are suicide and 10,000 murder, just how many of that 30,000 are a combination of murder and suicide together?
“Nathaniel” offers –
“So just what exactly are the numbers for murder-suicide?
If just about 30,000 are killed with the use of a gun each year and about 20,000 are suicide and 10,000 murder, just how many of that 30,000 are a combination of murder and suicide together?
I’ll look it up.
But first, tell me just how many murder-suicides you consider acceptable?
Monkey”boy”
And just what makes your comments relevant? You ramble incoherently about….What?
Please clarify. WTF is your point?
As usual, duh Libs prattle on, but never offer any solutions.
The nasty thing going around here is Death by Hydrogen Sulfide. The young girl who did this in the apartment block down the street put a lot of others in the hospital, And we don’t have the issue of guns here.
Heckler,
Exactly, what the hell is the Monkey’s point.
He is incoherent most of the time, and simply rude, never funny, all the time.
And no monkeybrain….I didn’t get my “wittle feewings hurt”. In fact I get a laugh out of you making a fool of yourself, but I’m laughing AT you, NOT WITH you.
MonkeyHawk,
I don’t think any murder, suicide, or murder-suicide is ever “acceptable.”
Poor wittle “Boxwock.”
Got his ass handed to him and has nothing.
Squirm, poodle!
Dance, poodle!
It’s all you’ve got.
I do have a question for both Mary and MonkeyHawk though.
Do you think that suicide should be illegal? Should people be allowed to end their lives if they want to?
And if you do support suicide, do you think that others should be allowed to help people kill themselves in a more humane way?
“Nathaniel” offers –
“I don’t think any murder, suicide, or murder-suicide is ever “acceptable.”
And I don’t think your reaction to “anyone who kills my dog” was “acceptable.”
But that’s not the issue here.
Thing is, murder-suicide is a far more likely scenario when a gun is available than when a gun isn’t available.
Shouldn’t the people in that household have some preemptive way to protect themselves?
There are many ways to protect oneself beside packing heat. You’re against that?
Hard subject with NO easy answers. I was talking recently with a group of friends about the costs of end of life. None of us knew but guessed a high percentage of health care costs might be spent at the end.
As is usual our conversation veered and and weaved. One among us was a doctor and brought up Senator Edward Kennedy and his health condition. According to this doctor he will die with or without treatments. We all wondered aloud if this man of influence were to acknowledge this fact and begin an open discussion about the costs of end of life what avenues that might open. We even went so far as to speculate whether he would be able to fore go those expensive treatments that might give him a little more time as an example. All the while we acknowledged he might need a little more time as the patriarch of a dynasty and much to be done.
None of us wanted to live beyond that time when we weren’t a burden and the discussion went to what that constitutes. If we’re physically dependent but mentally able to share something of ourselves are we still making a difference? Few of us were able to get beyond that physically dependent — like a child but stinkier and heavier and … We all wondered when we’d be able to accept our ending. Of course, we all want to be brave and kind, have that dignified end. We don’t get to choose, you know.
We didn’t have answers, just lots of questions.
Monkey,
You’re are delirious. ASs handed to me? Not quite, and I’m not all ass like you, punk.
Ah, jeez. “Nathaniel” comes up with –
“Do you think that suicide should be illegal?”
It used to be, in many jurisdictions, that attempted suicide was punishable by… wait for this… the DEATH PENALTY!!
It was as if the penalty for armed robbery were to be giving the crook a few thousand dollars. Or if the penalty for rape were to be forced sex.
Gimme a break, “Nathaniel,” even you aren’t that stupid, are you?
Well, maybe you are, what with –
“…if you do support suicide….”
Huh?
Frankly, I think suicide is probably the most personal issue any of us might ever contemplate.
Don’t you CONs typically talk about an individual’s rights?
I don’t care if you off yourself, “Nathaniel,” but if your wife (ha!) and family (double ha!) are concerned you might be a potential suicide victim, with a room full of firearms, I figure they might have some preemptive rights lessen the chances for a shooting spree.
That’s the issue at hand, “Nathaniel.” Not,
“…do you think that others should be allowed to help people kill themselves in a more humane way?”
What’s it to you? Or to me?
If a person decides their life consequences (from quadriplegia or ALS or cancer or whatever reason an individual decides to end this life… what’s it to you?
It turns out I’m far more conservative than you, “Nathaniel.”
But, unlike most so-called “CONservatives,” I recognize the natural consequences of conservatism.
It used to be — in the era of Buckley and Goldwater — that conservatives were somehow connected with reality. No more.
If it turns into an attractive sound-bite or political talking point, the CONs will use it. And the corporate media will lap it up.
MonkeyHawk,
==============================================
“And I don’t think your reaction to “anyone who kills my dog” was “acceptable.”
But that’s not the issue here.”
==============================================
You ask me a question, I answered it. Now you use it as an opportunity to bash me with a completely unrelated topic that you and the other liberals have twisted way beyond what was said?
Do you know the meaning of disingenuous? That is how you are coming across when you ask me a question and then respond this way when I answer it.
==============================================
“Thing is, murder-suicide is a far more likely scenario when a gun is available than when a gun isn’t available.”
==============================================
And you know this how? Still waiting on the numbers of these incidents nationwide as well.
==============================================
“Shouldn’t the people in that household have some preemptive way to protect themselves?”
==============================================
How do you preemptively protect yourself from someone who just grabs a gun and kills you and the rest of the family before killing himself?
==============================================
“There are many ways to protect oneself beside packing heat. You’re against that?”
==============================================
Depends on what we are talking about. Generally speaking I am all for self defense. Packing heat is one of the most effective ways of doing so if you are attacked though.
“Boxlock” –
Squirm, poodle!
Dance, poodle!
It’s all you’ve got.
It’s kinda funny that conservative Christians will go nuts trying to ban porn, pot and rap music because they are so harmful but fight equally as hard for guns because they are for our protection. Parents will take their kids out to a shooting range and that’s okay, but take them to a strip club and that’s bad.
Oh well, I never accused fundies of having a well developed sense of morals.
“Nathaniel” asks –
“How do you preemptively protect yourself from someone who just grabs a gun and kills you and the rest of the family before killing himself?”
It’s not a perfect solution, I’ll grant that. But if a family member or loved one fears a potential suicide, might they be able to remove firearms from the equation?
Your reaction, “Nathaniel” seems to reveal a deep seated fear on your part that someone who loves you might think you’d be better off if you didn’t have your firearms arsenal readily available.
Who’s dancing monkey, you are now, is that all you’ve got.
Like I said….you’re just a punk.
Maggot,
You are unbelievable.
You think taking a kid out to learn about firearms, to hunt and develop responsibility enough to handle a firearm for sport or protection is bad?
Yet porn, drugs, rap music is fine?
You’re sick man, you’re sick and disgusting.
I hope no one ever breeds with you, the poor kid.
“All this talk about someone killing themselves as being good, or cleaning the gene pool, is simply sick.”
That’s why I brought up Christianity, Nathan…because it’s the self proclamed “Christians” on this blog that are making the statements you refer to.
Why is it that so many who wear Jesus on their sleeve have the least compassion for their fellow man, and when you call them on it all they can do is throw personal insults?
Many people who attempt suicide in their life don’t succeed in killing themselves, depending on the method they choose. Guns are so lethal, it gives no chance of changing your mind after pulling the trigger. Suicide rates are higher where guns are easily available, especially when a home has both a teenager and a gun, that’s just how it is. Very few people who actually kill themsleves are so intent on suicide that they will succeed no matter what, and usually when the crisis passes, so does the suicidal thoughts and intentions.
So many people have a false perception of the suicidal person, just like they judge and condemn people who are mentally ill. You can see it right here in some of the posts on this blog. It’s all part of the ignorance that is so common in our society.
And to answer your question, Nathan…Yes, I think if someone is terminally ill with no chance of recovery, it should be up to them if they want to take their own life or not. Why should someone suffer needlessly when there is no hope?
It’s not the same issue as a distraught teenager who thinks his life isn’t worth living because his girlfriend broke up with him.
“And they’ll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, yes they’ll know we are Chritians by our love”
Man has it all changed since I sang that song in grade school…I don’t even recognize the Christian religion today, it’s nothing like what I grew up with.
Nathan let me see if I can put this in a way you might possibly understand.
If someone breaks into your house and beats you about the knees, and then beats you around the head, but keeps you alive just so they can continue to torture you- you would see it fit to kill that person to protect yourself, correct?
Good, because I would too.
Sometimes that torture comes from within your own body, your body can assault itself. It can be agonizing and unbearable. And the more care you need, the more burdensome you feel even if nobody is trying to make you feel that way. Losing independence is the worst feeling on earth. You want to be productive, you want to be helpful. Top that with pain, and it’s just as bad as if someone tied you to a chair and beat you daily.
If you are such a Christian, you should believe that there is a better place. I’m not a Christian and I believe that there is a better place after death. I simply don’t know what you are all so afraid of dying for.
And yes, I do believe that people who are disabled and even burdensome can have quality of life and be contributors to society…as long as they want to be. Once they cease wanting to be and they’re going to suffer, it doesn’t cause me any grief to see them ‘go’.
Besides, there was a waste of human skin who killed himself Friday. So really, not all suicide is bad. At least he saved taxpayer money. But I guess I’d rather had seen him suffer some…a lot actually.
Monkey”boy”
“It’s not a perfect solution, I’ll grant that. But if a family member or loved one fears a potential suicide, might they be able to remove firearms from the equation?”
Is this the point of your gyrations over the past couple hours?
If so the answer is- well duuhhh, yeah, there’s a process for having someone committed for their own protection, and removing guns from the house is an option though I don’t know that it’s a legal requirement. It’s nothing new.
“Why should someone suffer needlessly when there is no hope?”
Mary, and just who determines that? The person in desperation, pain, or depression. When close to the bottom there is no hope, and yet people frequently recover from that condition and get well. Should we encourage them, under their own subjective judgment, lacking objectivity, to make that decision. And, look how many have recovered that were thought terminal by ‘professionals’, yet they recover. Why not let God or nature take it’s course, not only for the benefit of the afflicted, but also those close to them.
God gave us this marvelous gift of life, is it really ours to throw away or end at our own, or someone else’s (abortion), convenience. I think not.
Mary, maybe you should get closer to the Christian religion, you will find it is exactly the same as when you grew up. People are fallible, the work of God is not.
“and yet people frequently recover from that condition and get well”
BS.
“And, look how many have recovered that were thought terminal by ‘professionals’, yet they recover”
Nonsense.
“Why not let God or nature take it’s course, not only for the benefit of the afflicted, but also those close to them.”
Why not let the terminally ill end their suffering?
“maybe you should get closer to the Christian religion”
If you are representative of Christianity, Box Head, then screw Christianity.
So you believe in second amendment restrictions… even though there is no exception in the constitution.
Good to know.
I agree with some restrictions as well.
God doesn’t kill people Box. That’s just part of life. He doesn’t sit there and determine who what where when and why.
I once investigated a suicide where a man drowned himself in his yard with a garden hose. If they want to do it, you are not going to stop them.
Boxlock
Posted July 6, 2008 at 8:50 pm | Permalink
“Why should someone suffer needlessly when there is no hope?”
Mary, and just who determines that? The person in desperation, pain, or depression. When close to the bottom there is no hope, and yet people frequently recover from that condition and get well. Should we encourage them, under their own subjective judgment, lacking objectivity, to make that decision. And, look how many have recovered that were thought terminal by ‘professionals’, yet they recover. Why not let God or nature take it’s course, not only for the benefit of the afflicted, but also those close to them.
God gave us this marvelous gift of life, is it really ours to throw away or end at our own, or someone else’s (abortion), convenience. I think not.
Mary, maybe you should get closer to the Christian religion, you will find it is exactly the same as when you grew up. People are fallible, the work of God is not.
========================================
Still self centered, selfish, and lover of self, just like normal, eh, Boxlock?
You are a work of art! You dont want the person suffering to make the decision for themselves to die on their terms; and you want to be the one to keep them from it. How totally self serving do you get? What does it hurt you, if somebody with ALS says, NO MORE, and wants to end life? Or somebody in final stage lung cancer? Or somebody in end stage renal failure?
I dont know who you think survives, at the terminal end of things. But IF there are any, it cant be but a handful – if that many. Let them go! At least allow them that one or two minutes of happiness, and the illusion of self control!
Surely your God of Wisdom and Grace and Love can handle that one. If not, what good is your God?
” People are fallible, the work of God is not.”
My grandfather had a stroke.
He could reason. But he could not rise from bed or communicate.
And all that entails.
It took him many many months of agonizing decline before he finally died.
Hey “God”?
Thanks. Thanks a bunch.
It would be worth it, to be there on Judgment Day, to see the likes of McCluer, the Prices and Boxlock when they have to answer to the Almighty for their bigotry, self-righteousness and judgmental attitudes.
The Gates of Hell await these folks and their ideological brethren when the Day comes.
The absolute WORST possible advertisement for Christianity lies with the sanctimonious attitudes of the likes of McCluer, the Prices and Box Head.
Why would anyone choose to follow such a religion? As the song goes “I love to tell the story,’twill be my theme in glory, to tell the old, old story of Jesus and his love.”
Well, these “Christians” today are the antithesis of that song……………… there is no love, just judgment borne of their hatred for their fellow man.
May you all rot in Hell.
Doctors and hospice regularly allow people to use terminally ill people enough morphine that it kills them.
It hastens death and presumably makes it less painful.
Assisted suicide is already the norm.
OOps…should have read:
Doctors and hospice regularly allow terminally ill people (or their families ) to use enough morphine that it kills them.
It hastens death and presumably makes it less painful.
Assisted suicide is already the norm.
We just pretend that it doesn’t happen.
Amazing how a gun suicide thread can turn into another Concealed Carry thread. And even more amazing, the “end of life care” folks, let them get away with it!!
My goodness!! BUT, still a few good discussions… Could have been worse…
Good night; good luck; God bless —
Whatever you consider God to be!!
Blessings to ALL!!
So mote it be!!
“You are unbelievable.
You think taking a kid out to learn about firearms, to hunt and develop responsibility enough to handle a firearm for sport or protection is bad?
Yet porn, drugs, rap music is fine?
You’re sick man, you’re sick and disgusting.
I hope no one ever breeds with you, the poor kid.”
So you’ll give a loaded gun to a kid to play with but forbid him from going to an art museum or listen to unhealthy music like Elvis. I don’t know anyone who has died from smoking a joint but there have been plenty who have died from lead poisoning after sticking a pistol in the mouth.
Ha, ha, notice the devil and his evil in the above posts, condemning the sanctity of life, and that God is in control and not themselves. They want to complete control, but they aren’t in control. Simply look at these valueless posts they are wasting their lives on.
WS, you will be there on judgment day, just as I will, and be assured I am unafraid of that completely, not so you it seems, or would think.
I am not referring to ’self-directives’, and that extraordinary measures not being taken to prolong life. I have those in place myself. The discussion was about suicide, and one deciding to end their life. Big big difference.
SquarePeg, you are square, or empty, brained it seems. People suffering aren’t able to make informed, objective decisions. I know, I supervised a cardio/pulmonary Code Blue team for several years and dealt with critically and chronically ill patients everyday. They can not make those decisions for themselves in the midst of their suffering, and no one has the right to do it for them either if they haven’t done so prior to need with their own advance directives.
One more thing, I know I should not feel this way but WSClark, you are correct about one thing only….I care nothing for you, or at least your attitude.
And thanks for the best wishes, the “May you all rot in Hell.”. I would never wish the same for anyone, even an enemy, or EVEN you, but it does speaks volumes for your moral sanctity. You have no room to judge or point fingers.
Jesus LOVED, but he NEVER condoned or accepted sin. Pay attention to that, it’s very important. Jesus, and the practice of Christianity are not a free pass to live as you please. You either follow him, or your are lost.
Blame it all on the guns….
If guns kill people, then …
Pencils miss spel words,
cars make people drive drunk,
spoons made Rosie O’Donnell fat.
And PM reminds me of Rosie
You are a f’ng moron if you ran a code blue team and decided that people can’t make those decisions for themselves. Ever hear of the patients bill of rights?
Box, you’re a seriously sorry ass excuse for any medical person. It scares me that there are people like you out there deciding you know better than the person sitting in the bed.
I’ll bet your team really hated working with you. Did you just ignore the no code blues? Heaven forbid they make that call themselves.
Even as a pro-gunner, I will admit this is a sad problem. The problem is not the gun, it’s the state of mind of the suicidal person. Like many others have said, they will find a way.
That being said, one other thing comes to mind. The question on the background check as to whether you have a history of mental illness. The problem was identified with the crazy guy at Virginia Tech; even though he was CLEARLY recognized as a danger to himself and others, the mental health authorities didn’t want to violate his “right of privacy” and thus did not report his diagnosis to the authorities. Later, when he legally purchased guns, his background check came through clean as a whistle. So that’s one thing to look at, i.e. if we’re serious as a country about keeping guns from mental health cases, we need a data system that works.
As to the once-healthy gun owner who now faces depression, a divorce, a bankruptcy, etc, etc, and chooses to end his/her life, I’m afraid there’s not a good answer.
Maggot,
You are a damn joke, you know that.
You are the one that stated;
“It’s kinda funny that conservative Christians will go nuts trying to ban porn, pot and rap music because they are so harmful but fight equally as hard for guns because they are for our protection. Parents will take their kids out to a shooting range and that’s okay, but take them to a strip club and that’s bad.”
WHAT, are you now trying to turn what you actually said into, “an art museum or listen to unhealthy music like Elvis”. Get real liar, nobodies falling for that.
You know what, you are an unreal nitwit if you think you can convince anyone of what you just said, because art museums and Elvis were not what we are talking about, and you know it as well as everyone else here.
And teaching a kid to responsibly handle firearms for hunting or sport is not, “a pistol in the mouth”. What an ass you are.
Dame, if that’s your honest opinion, and I don’t believe that for a second as no one can be that stupid, then…sorry but you had some real failures as parents. My kids know firearms, and what they are to be use for, responsibly.
You are to be pitied.
You worked at Via Christie didn’t ya. What an apt place for ya.
“WS, you will be there on judgment day, just as I will, and be assured I am unafraid of that completely”
Please get there as soon as possible, Box Head, as soon as humanly possible.
As I said previously, I truly feel sorry for you, but that does not change my opinion that the best thing you could do for us is leave this planet post haste.
Maggot,
I got’a give you one thing.
You picked for yourself the most appropriate and accurate nic of anyone on the blog.
You truly are a Maggot and a Punk!
P_mama,
Wrong as usual.
“Please get there as soon as possible, Box Head, as soon as humanly possible.”
God, I feel sorry that you have children, Box Head. People like you should not be allowed to reproduce.
There should be a law against folks like even thinking about phucking.
WS,
My children are doing just fine.
Both happily married, one with three beautiful children we just took on vacation camping and playing in Silver Dollar City.
Both kids with Master’s Degrees, one an engineer and one in medicine education and indigent care.
My two older grandkids, 9 and 6 yrs, already have been out shooting with me and will soon have their own firearm, under my care of course.
No, don’t feel sorry for me, I’m doing just fine family wise and working for myself but able to retire anytime I so desire.
Not trying to brag, just fact, and letting you what can happen when you set a goal and WORK for it.
You are the one that maybe shouldn’t be allowed to breed.
And, notice how you refer to reproduction as “phucking”. You are a dirty man WS, a really dirty man. I am glad we are separated by cyberspace, you are not one I would like to be anywhere close to, the stench would overwhelm.
WSClark
Posted July 6, 2008 at 9:37 pm | Permalink
“Well, these “Christians” today are the antithesis of that song……………… there is no love, just judgment borne of their hatred for their fellow man.
May you all rot in Hell.”
WS Clark,
Do you even see the sad irony in your post?
You speak nothing but hateful and vile things while condemning the “hatred” of those you speak of.
Putting a gun in the hands of a SIX year old?
YOU and your kids should be investigated by the SRS.
BlueJay,
At what age would you think allowing a kid to handle a gun would be ok?
You are one of the gun nuts Nathan.
How’s about you give me an answer to your own question?
BlueJay,
I think gun safety is like teaching a kid about any type of safety.
When do you start teaching your kid to look both ways before crossing the street? Probably when the kid is old enough to understand and cross the street.
When a kid is old enough to hold a gun and pull the trigger, the kid is old enough to start learning about safe handling and operation.
Children can hold AND fire a gun at the age of two Nathan.
BlueJay,
Your point?
I think preschool age or kindergarten is about the right time to start teaching gun safety, to be more specific.
My answer, to interject here. Time to learn to safely handle and shoot guns somewhere between the age of 11 and 14. Depends on the maturity of the child. Before that, my gun safety lecture. Keep them put up but Do not keep them hidden. Show the kids where they all are, tell them those are are not toys, they are mine. They are not yours. Touch them, I’ll beat your ass. WOrks
People get in rouble when they hide their guns, then the kids find it, and thinks it’s another toy hidden from view. They get them out, and play with them. Then a tragedy happens. Keep them put up, but show the kids where they are, and they are not to touch.
I don’t necessarily disagree.
But that is not where our discussion begins.
Boxlock says that he has put a gun in the hands of a six year old and had them fire it.
That is insane.
Preschool age or kindergarten?
You get a fake gun and heat it up to a few hundred degrees.
The child touches it and lesson learned.
Now I will answer your question.
As to the age to expose a kid to guns? As in firing them?
CERTAINLY not before 12.
Guns should really have an age limit. We have age limits for almost everything dangerous, and yeah, guns are DANGEROUS and shouldn’t be for kids to use.
BlueJay,
Why 12?
Why is it insane to have a 6 year old shoot a gun?
And heating a gun up is not lesson learned. A comprehensive gun safety program should be started so that a child knows what to do in almost any situation.
When a kid sees another kid holding and playing with a real gun, obviously the hot gun lesson will be void because the kid can clearly see another not being burned.
A child should be taught
“STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave the Area. Tell an Adult.”
A good safety program is that of Eddie the Eagle:
http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/fact.asp
Political_mama,
At a certain age, a child should be under adult supervision when using a gun, sure thing.
When I was a kid, I would walk around the farm with a .22 all day long, no problems.
There were no problems because I was taught how to be safe and responsible with a gun at an early age.
Boxlock – a confused soul – posts:
“SquarePeg, you are square, or empty, brained it seems. People suffering aren’t able to make informed, objective decisions. I know, I supervised a cardio/pulmonary Code Blue team for several years and dealt with critically and chronically ill patients everyday. They can not make those decisions for themselves in the midst of their suffering, and no one has the right to do it for them either if they haven’t done so prior to need with their own advance directives.”
========================================
Exactly what is it that you are objecting to, in what Square Peg posted up thread?
In my 30+ years in ministry, I find what Square Peg said to be square on the money. I am also fully aware of the meaning of advanced directives, No Code, etc., etc.
And you know, if you so much as came within 3 feet of a patient with a No Code directive, with one of those paddles, you would never work in health care again! To talk here as if you think you KNOW who can and cannot make life/death decisions, you obviously havent been around much when families make such decisions…
I have sat with them, cried with them, laughed with them… agonized with them, as they make that decision to pull the plug…
And they didnt need your Code Blue team of ghouls to help them with anything… Do you have any idea what kind of disservice it is to somebody DYING, for you and your little band of blue coded boy scouts to dare to bring them back, and even more so, if you CLAIM God makes the decisions??? If GOD made the decision to turn off the friggin switch, then who are YOU or your crew to interfere and turn it back on again??
I stand on what I said to you several days back, when I told you I had never seen such a self centered bastard anywhere in my life, what with your self righteous, holier than thou attitudes…
And from what I read on here, I can only imagine how your children must have grown up in what HAD to be an emotional and mentally abusive household!! Your bigotry deserves to be punished… Oh, but not by me, or anybody else here… Your kind of bigotry needs to be punished by your own people, on their ownn terms…. when maybe YOU are in a terminal state, and all you want is to move across that plane…. and your beloved family tells them to HIT YOU with those dreaded paddles, and keep ol Dad/Father/Hubby/Grandpa alive just for one more day, or week, or month… or maybe just keep him going till Christmas, for the sake of the grand kids…
THEN perhaps you will understand…. I would to God that it wouldnt take such a drastic event, but I believe sincerely that is the ONLY way you will ever learn!!!
I would hope such a thing does not happen to you… But if or when it should, then in those moments, you can think about all of the vitriolic hatred you have spent time posting here… And all of the things you have said about people who share different thoughts from you, and all of the bigotry — in the name of GOD, no less…. And when those paddles hit you… In that moment, THEN you will know what it means to die in dignity!!!
“Boxlock says that he has put a gun in the hands of a six year old and had them fire it.
That is insane.
Preschool age or kindergarten?”
I have to agree that that is way too early.
I don;t know about your instructional method though. Might work, but could cause serious damage. I wouild prefer the kid respects my wishes, or is scared to cross me at that age. You cannot rationally discuss things like death with really young kids. THey don;t deal in abstracts well. A formidable concern about your actions is much more effective.
My 11:44 was to Nathan.
Littlejohn makes a bit more sense. But HE makes guns forbidden fruit.
There is NOTHING so alluring to a child.
To the under 10, guns should be don’t touch.
My son is 14. I don’t want him anywhere near a gun.
His bike got stolen today. This in spite of my repeated warnings that he should lock it up.
But the upshot is? I asked him, if he had a gun and had SEEN the person stealing his bike, would he have shot them dead?
He said no. He would have stunned them if he could. But he would not have killed them over a bike.
Nathaniel posted July 6, 2008 at 11:23 pm
“When a kid is old enough to hold a gun and pull the trigger, the kid is old enough to start learning about safe handling and operation.”
————-
Guns can be made very light weight, with a hair-trigger action.
A baby, only a few months old, could “hold” that gun, and “pull the trigger”.
Littlejohn,
I said preschool or kindergarten for teaching gun safety.
I think it is up to the parents on when they would like to teach their children how to handle a gun or shoot. I know alot of people who take their children hunting in grade school and teach them how to fire a gun in grade school.
Why is that so wrong?
Making a kid afraid is not the answer either. A child should be taught to take action and be responsible, not afraid.
Littlejohn,
My instructional method is using the Eddie Eagle program.
Which has been tested and used for some time now with great success.
Fear is not the answer.
Nathan, I cannot believe I am actually reading here that you would teach gun anything to a child in pre-school or kindergarten…. That is perhaps the most irresponsible, empty brained thing I have seen yet… And YOU wonder why I am adamant about the necessity of gun controls???
Right!! You bet your sweet bippy I am!! And this latest nonsense out of you convinces me even more I am right!!
Chas,
I would teach gun safety to preschool/kindergarten age children.
The Eddie Eagle program has been doing just that.
Why are you opposed to teaching children what to do if they see a gun?
“STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave the Area. Tell an Adult.”
Lets review the suggestions so far:
From BlueJay:
-Burn the kid with a fake gun to make him afraid of grabbing it.
From Littlejohn:
-Teach your kid that if he touches your guns you will kick his A$$
From Nathaniel:
-Use the Eddie Eagle program where kids are taught
“STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave the Area. Tell an Adult.”
And you are going to tell me I am the one who is being irresponsible and empty brained?
I take gun safety very seriously. I teach it for heavens sake.
Well, these “Christians” today are the antithesis of that song……………… there is no love, just judgment borne of their hatred for their fellow man.
May you all rot in Hell.
—And WS doesn’t see the irony, nay, hypocricy wrapped up in those two sentences? And yet he has the audacity to call others judgmental!!
Yeesh.
More important, the gun safety topic. The worst thing, I think, you can do is make the guns “off-limits;” that just makes them forbidden fruit and more attractive.
Teach gun safety as soon as the child shows ANY interest in the gun, and as soon as they can reasonably handle the weapon. In our house, generally between 8-11. Keep the rules simple and basic:
1) Always treat the gun as if it’s loaded
2) Never point it at anything you don’t intend to destroy
3) When handed a firearm, ALWAYS personally check the chamber/magazine well/cylinder to ensure yourself it is unloaded. Do so no matter what, and EVERY TIME, even if the person handing you the gun has emptied it in front of you. NO exceptions.
And BTW, the person handing the weapon to another should do so action or cylinder open (on a handgun), butt first. Magazine empty, of course. Every time. Repetition makes it a good habit.
For basic, fundamental gun safety, that’s a start. Everyone ought to know how a firearm works, and how to remove the magazine and empty the chamber in a semi-auto, or unload a revolver, at the very least.
And if they show any interest, take them shooting. It will reduce the “forbidden fruit” appeal of the guns, will make the need for safety direct and obvious, and provide opportunity to spend time with your kids. Practice what you preach at the range and model the behavior you expect. It will end, or at least lessen, the unnecessary and hoplophobic fear, and replace that with knowledge of and respect for the firearm. It is, after all, just a tool, and like any tool, can be dangerous if used improperly.
I’ll go further, and I’ve said this before. Any parent, in this country, who does NOT teach the basics of firearm handling safety (that means, at the least, being able to unload a weapon safely) is irresponsible.
As to the suicide, it’s a suicide problem, not a gun problem. Deal with the causes of the suicide, not the means; the suicidal will always find a means. Like the first poster here, I think this topic reflects the Eagle’s sour grapes that the Constitution actually means what it says.
But you, Nathan, teach gun safety from the point of fear.
You are so afraid that you will not travel about without a gun.
The speculation as to that fear is for another discussion. Suffice it to say that you felt the need to joke about brandishing a gun at a social occasion.
“Stop! Leave the area! Tell an adult!”
Clearly Nathan you have never been a parent.
“There is NOTHING so alluring to a child.”
Depends on the age of the child, in my experience. If you tell them what will happen if they mess with it, and you are consistent with it, my exprience is that they will leave stuff alone. But, you also will notice i said keep them put up. It is a two pronged approach. and Nathan,I didnt say kick his aass, I said beat it. As in give them a whupping,or a spanking.
By the way, I was taught to huntand shoot at age 11. I grew up on a farm. NObody I knew would have, at the age of 14 even had to consider ,
“But the upshot is? I asked him, if he had a gun and had SEEN the person stealing his bike, would he have shot them dead?
He said no. He would have stunned them if he could. But he would not have killed them over a bike.”
Would have been no need to ask. But I guess times change.
BlueJay,
The Eddie Eagle program is a national program which has been used to teach millions of children gun safety.
This is not some crazy Nathan thing you are arguing against, you are arguing against the Eddie Eagle program which is already tested and tried.
YOU think I am afraid and carry a gun because of that. Which by the way has nothing to do with teaching a kid gun safety nor is it true.
“Keep the rules simple and basic:
1) Always treat the gun as if it’s loaded
2) Never point it at anything you don’t intend to destroy
3) When handed a firearm, ALWAYS personally check the chamber/magazine well/cylinder to ensure yourself it is unloaded. Do so no matter what, and EVERY TIME, even if the person handing you the gun has emptied it in front of you. NO exceptions.
And BTW, the person handing the weapon to another should do so action or cylinder open (on a handgun), butt first. Magazine empty, of course. Every time. Repetition makes it a good habit.”
Good habit andtraining. Do what you will will underage children in this regard. By the way, I never said to install fear in the firearem. THe fear if any is doing what they’ve been told not too. THey must understand consequences. IF they cannot understand the rationale of the real consequence, it must be replaced with one they can understand.
“More important, the gun safety topic. The worst thing, I think, you can do is make the guns “off-limits;” that just makes them forbidden fruit and more attractive. ”
Just depends of the physical and mature level of the kid. The conversation at two, and at 10, are two different conversations.
HaVE A GOOD NIGHT all. WHatever you perceive it to be.
“This is not some crazy Nathan thing you are arguing against, you are arguing against the Eddie Eagle program which is already tested and tried.”
Yeah by the National Rifle Association.
Those people are kooks.
My son had his bike stolen today. It was HIS fault.
I WANT him beating himself up about it instead of wanting to fire a gun.
BlueJay,
Do you have anything to offer to the discussion besides the name calling?
Lose the pretense at being out of the stink Nathan.
YOU helped make it.
Where have I called names?
I called the NRA kooks. I speak from personal experience.
I worked with a guy who would not vote for Democrats because, “They wanna take muh guns!” HE was an NRA member and had an arsenal of his own.
One night, he emailed me that he had one of his guns in his mouth. He was a single dad like me. It seems HIS son was making noises about wanting to leave his Dad and live with his Mother.
I wrote him back, “What the hell kind of parent are you? You are going to kill yourself over something a teenager said? And YOU have let HIM have and handle guns since he was little? Damn. Jerry, put up the gun and grow up or fire it!”
My “freind” as far as I know is still very much alive.
BUT he beats his dog to encourage it to be mean and protect his property. At least that is the last I knew.
Maybe I should not have written back that night.
I received training from the NRA when I was a teenager. Already had fired weapons before that though.
The ranch owner of the ranch I worked on during the summer insisted we take a firearms safety course before we started working.
The reason?
There were wild animals, rattlesnakes and other vermin. Poachers had a bad habit of cutting the chain to the ranches property at night to poach deer.
Knowing how to properly use firearms was part of the job, just as much as using the wire stretcher to build fences.
Besides, in our off time, we could hunt white tail which later became some mighty fine deer cuts and sausage. A few ducks and occasional turkey as well, although I never bagged any of those.
PINEHURST, N.C. A former Army medic made famous by a photograph that showed him carrying an injured Iraqi boy during the first week of the war has died of an apparent overdose, police said.
Joseph Patrick Dwyer died last week at a hospital in Pinehurst, according to the Boles Funeral Home. He was 31. The photograph, taken in March 2003, showed Dwyer running to a makeshift military hospital while cradling the boy. The photo appeared in newspapers, magazines and television broadcasts worldwide, making Dwyer became a symbol of heroism.
His mother said the military could have done more to help with post-traumatic stress. “He just couldn’t get over the war,” Maureen Dwyer said. “He just couldn’t do it. Just wasn’t Joseph. Joseph never came home.”
MonkeyHawk,
How does that relate to this topic?
And have you figured out how many murder-suicides there are yet?
BlueJay,
The Eddie Eagle program, though part of the NRA, only concerns it’s self with safety.
They do not seek to influence any political ideas. They focus on safety only.
How are they kooks? Have you read any of their material? If you have not, how can you claim they are kooks and say that what they do is “insane?”
Mary_Caruso
Posted July 6, 2008 at 7:00 pm | Permalink
“And to answer your question, Nathan…Yes, I think if someone is terminally ill with no chance of recovery, it should be up to them if they want to take their own life or not. Why should someone suffer needlessly when there is no hope?
It’s not the same issue as a distraught teenager who thinks his life isn’t worth living because his girlfriend broke up with him.”
This is a very interesting question to me. I knew a physician who made a very serious suicide attempt (he was a sophisticated self-poisoner) and by all rights he should have died. But he did not. He went on to practice medicine for another 40 years – he did great work was loved by patients and staff alike. In his advanced age, this doctor developed several health problems that prevented him from practicing medicine. He became so ill, that he decided to stop eating. He eventually died.
I have often pondered “what were the differences in the two end of life decisions this single man made?”
The easy answer was that in the first case his temporary problems did not have permanent consequeces like his second decision did. The prognosis for life continuing was much better after the first (but, unsuccessful) decision versus the second.
[A friend and I want to write a case study type article about this man and his decisions]
Another fairly well known story about aged people killing themselves was from a case in Colorado (I can find sources if any are interested). An elderly woman got news from her Dr. that she had terminal cancer, the treatments that were available were unacceptable to her. She went home, asked her son to find her a firearm so she could kill herself rather than die slowly and painfully. The son complied and she completed suicide over the weekend.
A large problem was the the medical tests were wrong and the woman was not at risk to die in the near future from cancer. The son was prosecuted for aiding a suicide.
One final thought, if a person is suffering from an unrelenting depression – has tried every medication marketed, and several in reseach stages, but continues to live a life of misery, while one cannot blame such a person from wanting to end their lives, the idea of dying from a terminal psychiatric illness is not acceptable to us for some reason. I am not suggesting that it should be, because usually the above is not the case. I have just found this difference interesting.
Sorry for the late nite ponderings from the thanatos corner.
Nobody gets out of this life alive.
I don’t understand how people can dread the inevitable.
My brother-in-law died recently after about seven years of suffering from an Alzheimer’s-type disease. In the course of his life, he kept finding ways to live (unlike typical Alzheimer’s, he spent many months rebounding; the doctors think, as what happens with some stroke victims, the brain works to re-invent and re-wire itself).
That long, horrible, adult-diapered, fed-like-a-baby, confused and delusional death march isn’t something I look forward to.
But it was oddly comfortable for those of us who’re left behind.
Compare that with the out-of-the-blue death of Tim Russert.
We’re all shocked by sudden, unexpected death. But Lincoln is just as dead as Generalissimo Franco. What’s the big difference?
I’ve frequently thought, if I’m diagnosed with a lingering fatal illness I might take up skydiving and might, just might, decide one day to not pull the ripcord.
Bloomberg reported this week on yet another devastating and deadly aspect of the war in Iraq: the U.S. troops, burdened with post-traumatic stress, who commit suicide.
The number of suicides among veterans of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the U.S. government’s top psychiatric researcher said.
Community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven’t provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland. He briefed reporters today at the American Psychiatric Association’s annual meeting in Washington.
Insel echoed a Rand Corporation study published last month that found about 20 percent of returning U.S. soldiers have post- traumatic stress disorder or depression, and only half of them receive treatment.
The Rand study also found that of the roughly half of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who had PTSD, major depression, or a probable traumatic brain injury and who sought treatment, “just over half received a minimally adequate treatment.”
Some things in life are hard. But getting the number of vets who get minimally adequate treatment over 50% is not one of them. You train the doctors. If those treatments cost more, you provide the money. You do what you need to do to make sure that when someone walks in the door looking for help, s/he finds it.
“Dame, if that’s your honest opinion, and I don’t believe that for a second as no one can be that stupid, then…sorry but you had some real failures as parents. My kids know firearms, and what they are to be use for, responsibly.”
You are a complete moron if you think looking at Venus De Milo, or listening to a record album will cause more harm than a bullet to the head. Congrats, you have made the moron of the year.
Show me some of those statistics concerning those who have died looking a naked people, listening to music and smoking pot. Combine them all then compare it to those who have died from a gunshot.
It’s clear from your lack of a coherent, rational argument that you have already admitted defeat and project your poor parenting upon me. It’s a sad thing you do have children, you sound like an awfully stupid parent.
Do it.
Maggotmoron,
No, we are not talking about art, we are talking about what YOU described as PORN.
Now you are simply trying to LIE out of what you said, you simpleton.
Boxlock, it was Jesus freak John Ashcroft who considered the Spirit of Justice statue to be pornographic and spent $8,000 taxpayer dollars to cover it up. Sorry bub, you nutters consider art to be pornographic if a breast is exposed.
How many people died because that statue showed a breast?
Better not click on this link, even more porn:
http://www.linearossage.it/images/liberty.JPG
Play a round of Russian Roulette, that will be safer in your opinion.
I never defined porn…you are the one that said it was better to expose kids to porn and drugs and rap that to teach them the safe handling of firearms.
Wise up, and quit you lying.
“I never defined porn…you are the one that said it was better to expose kids to porn and drugs and rap that to teach them the safe handling of firearms.
Wise up, and quit you lying.”
Actually I said such activities were less harmful. It’s pathetic that all you’ve had to resort to is insult and lies. Oh well, such is the morality of the fundy.
So if the fundies don’t view nude women as pornographic are they in the habit of covering them up simply because women shouldn’t be seen? Do you teach your children the Christian value of hating women?
Squirm maggot, squirm punk!
Putting a gun in the hands of a six year old?
SRS should be notified.
BlueJay,
Burning your kid with a fake gun to teach him?
SRS should be called on you.
“Putting a gun in the hands of a six year old?
SRS should be notified.”
He does quite well for being small and having to put the stock under his shoulder as the stock is too long.
He does quite well indeed and has a great time with his Papa.
Maggot, the degenerate pervert, druggie.
Even if you can stop it (How?) Why would you?
Don’t people have the right to die?
It’s ok for Mother’s to kill their babies, but it’s Not OK to kill yourself?
Blame the Gun – Just another Gun Banners Mantra.
Just extended my NRA membership, which wouldn’t have expired for over a year as is, by another five years beyond that.
I thought you’d like that BlueJay and PunkMaggot.
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