Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Goddard, said at a press event Monday that gas prices could drop dramatically if America increased its domestic oil drilling and expanded oil refineries. But most experts say it could be a couple of decades before offshore drilling came on line, and once it did, it would only reduce the price of gas by a few pennies.
The Bush Energy Department reported last year that “access to the Pacific, Atlantic and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030.”
What’s more, four-fifths of all known offshore deposits are already available to industry exploration efforts, columnist Carl Hiaasen noted, yet oil companies aren’t drilling. Instead, the vast majority of their record profits is going to stock dividends and buybacks, Associated Press reported.
283 Comments
First of all, America needs a CONSERVATION OF ENERGY PROGRAM. This should be applied to local, state and federal government levels. Also to the air industry and transportation industries. Drop maximum highway speeds to 55 mph.
I imagine various lists could be produced saying where the most energy could be saved.
This national conservation effort should be in effect for the next two years to see how it works with extension possible.
Somehow our primary power source must be switched to electrical power most likely produced by nuclear power plants supplemented by wind, sun, water power.
How did America begin giving its natural resources and money to the middle east and to China?
Todd Tihart should do his homework before making noise with political rhetoric. The man does not know
what he is talking about.
The USA oil cartel made decisions NOT to build more refineries and only use a few. This provides a tool
to manipulate gasoline prices.
Not only that the USA oil cartel has thousands upon thousands upon thousands of oil leased properties that have gone untouched in the USA.
Neither USA oil cartels nor politicians are being honest with americans.
Oil pollutes no matter where it comes from. The focus should be on oil use reduction no matter what.
Green house gas is a huge problem. The USA is 5% of the world population using 25% of the worlds energy
thus creating 25% of the world’s pollution. While other countries have wayyyyyyyy more people the USA is the single largest contributor to green house gas and air pollution.
#
earthdoctor
Posted July 23, 2008 at 6:42 am | Permalink
Oil pollutes no matter where it comes from. The focus should be on oil use reduction no matter what.
Green house gas is a huge problem. The USA is 5% of the world population using 25% of the worlds energy
thus creating 25% of the world’s pollution. While other countries have wayyyyyyyy more people the USA is the single largest contributor to green house gas and air pollution.
————————————–
Then turn off your air conditioning, cable TV and TV’s, stop cooking on your electric and gas stoves, forget about using hot water when you bathe.
Then you too can have energy reduction and third world status.
Oh, and stop turning on your computer and posting on the WE Blog, you’re wasting energy.
Regular
Posted July 22, 2008 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
Still putting the ogle on middle school girls Apophis?
…………..troll-boy, are you ready to “man up” to your libelous and slandering post?
earthdoctor
“thousands upon thousands upon thousands of oil leased properties that have gone untouched in the USA.”
Tell me ‘doc’ how much known reserve is beneath those leased properties?
Tell me ‘doc’ how much of that reserve is considered “recoverable” with current production methods.
Drop the propaganda and give me some numbers. Otherwise you’re just spouting envirowacko talking points.
Last year the national average price of regular gasoline was $2.956. (fuelreportguage)
So, what has changed to increase the price by more than $1.00/gallon?
Quit your whining Apophis, you sound so sissy when you whine.
……………like I posted:
Regular
Posted July 22, 2008 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
Still putting the ogle on middle school girls Apophis?
…………..troll-boy, are you ready to “man up” to your libelous and slandering post?
…and may Rainbow Farts from Pink Unicorns make your wind turbines sing for eternity…
This is just a phony wedge issue the Republicans are pushing to cover their dismal record of failures. Efficiency and transition to abundant alternative energy is the only wise path for America and the world to take.
#
Apophis
Posted July 23, 2008 at 6:57 am | Permalink
……………like I posted:
Regular
Posted July 22, 2008 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
Still putting the ogle on middle school girls Apophis?
…………..troll-boy, are you ready to “man up” to your libelous and slandering post?
———————————–
You never answered the question.
(fine, moderate it then.)
Phillip
“But most experts say it could be a couple of decades before offshore drilling came on line”
BULLch*T!! Same bullch*t different day.
Don’t talk to “experts”, talk to drillers. There is a shortage of offshore rigs right now, but if you talk to drillers they say a year and a half to be pumping oil if you can get a rig onsite. In the Gulf of Mexico, where there is infrastructure for transporting the oil you have a significant increase in production a year and a half after getting a rig.
On the coasts, where there is no transport infrastructure, 5-6 years.
Where do these “experts” get this 10yrs+ bu**2**1t?
Yeah Heckler, the Saudis don’t have to read Lib Press either.
Here’s a quote on how fast oil production can be made in a new oil field.
HARADH, February 08, 2006 — In a record 21 months from approval of funding, oil started flowing through the new Haradh gas-oil separation plant (GOSP) from several of 32 new wells that will feed the facility.
…….I guess to a pervert like you, an “answer” would be in order.
What you insinuate is just disgusting.
Is YOUR under-age girls “issue” the reason you no longer act as “emergency substitute teacher” in the Derby school district?
You’ve stepped over the line with this issue troll-boy.
Quit your crying Apophis.
You make comments about Nathan’s mother and other despicable remarks on this blog.
So STFU (that’s Shoot Turkeys Flying Up) and take it like a man.
Somebuddy huwt Apo’s feewings. Ohhhh myyyyy.
LOL!
“You’ve stepped over the line with this issue troll-boy.”
Oh, so there’s a line? Really? We’d never be able to tell it from your posts!
We all know who Regular is, compared to you teacher-boy he’s a saint!
If one was to look up ‘blog troll’ in the dictionary your picture would be there!
nitwit
Bluejay once accused me of being too intelligent to be a Republican, which comes more from a conservative POV then anything else. But such mindless points as increasing oil drilling would decrease oil prices makes it harder to defend the party affiliation. When the answers given is like this one or a “Gas tax holiday” its show that the party is no longer the “party of big ideas”.
The argument that the problem’s solution is more areas to drill in when the areas already available are not being used. Is like me saying because I have more room in my house than I have furniture I need a bigger house! The time I spent living in Oklahoma, I never heard an explanation for the oil boom going bust was because of a lack of domestic drilling. It was said it was because they could not get oil as cheaply as it could be bought from over seas. It was the profit angle not the availability. It is raw crude that is imported not unleaded gas. So why would anyone be so stupid as to believe that if we increase domestic drilling the price would go down. It is still refined here at any price it is bought, so where is the cost going to be passed on to?
If in fact “most experts say it could be a couple of decades before offshore drilling came on line”, which others say is a gross exaggeration, then we better get started. For the the Democrats to play their political game on this just places the U.S. in a more economic precarious position for a longer period of time.
To claim that supply and demand would have little effect on the price of oil is ridiculous, and defies economics.
Much of the claimed two decade long time frame to realize increased production is because there are few rigs available to drill presently, as a result of there being no incentive to build those multimillion dollar rigs, because of the restrictions placed on offshore drilling.
It is flawed circular logic to claim there is no need need for offshore exploration.
Another way to look at it is; don’t use our oil for the world market. Use the rest of the world’s oil. Sure, pay out the nose. But it’s just getting more valuable sitting down there.
Be selfish. Hoard our oil.
………..well, the reichwing cheerleaders fall in line behind their chief troll.
…old man price expected, with his “there’s no difference between civilian iraqis and terrorists” son to follow soon.
Isn’t it about time for you to chime in boxtop, or are you still compiling that dossier on me to give to the BOE?
I am not against off shore drilling, but it seems a mindless argument when what is already available is not being used to say it is because there is not enough. During the eighties productive holes were closed down and now it is being argued that there is no place to drill? Rigs went to set in empty fields and rig hands went to the unemployment line. Again I have more house then I have stuff to put in it, so I need more house!
Tiahrt’s wishful thinking only proves that he isn’t the person to lead America into an energy revolution. He has a history of opposing higher CAFE standards and investing in alternative energy. Rather, his largest campaign donors, the oil companies, have told him to keep us addicted to oil and do nothing for conservation.
Tiahrt and his ilk have helped cause this problem now it’s up to people like Senator Betts and Senator Obama to take over and solve the problem since they have real plans.
US drilling rig count at 23-year high
By OGJ editors
HOUSTON, July 2 — US drilling continued to climb, up by 8 rotary rigs to 1,921 working this week, said Baker Hughes Inc. on July 2.
That’s the largest number of rigs drilling in the US and its waters since late December 1985, when 1,995 units were working. It compares with 1,752 rigs at work in this same period in 2007.
As usual, land operations accounted for the weekly increase, up by 9 rigs to 1,836 drilling. Inland waters were unchanged with 22 rigs working. Offshore activity declined by 1 to 63 rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, the only waters in which federal leases are being drilled.
Of the rigs working, 373 were drilling for oil, down 2 from the previous week. There were 1,539 rigs drilling for natural gas, 9 more than the previous week, and 9 units were unclassified. Horizontal drilling decreased by 9 to 555. Directional drilling increased by 7 to 387.
Among major producing states, Oklahoma reported the largest increase in activity, up 9 rigs to 209 working. Texas increased by 8 to 923, and New Mexico was up 1 to 81. Rig counts in Wyoming and California were unchanged at 76 and 43, respectively. Louisiana, Colorado, and Alaska were down 2 rigs each to 176, 111, and 4 respectively.
Canada’s rig count jumped by 32 to 388 this week. That’s up from 286 in the same period last year.
Baker Hughes reported the rig count early this week because of the US Independence holiday on July 4.
Oil and Gas Journal Webpage
This is Tiahrt’s quote:
“…gas prices could drop dramatically…”
This is the headline:
“Drilling would dramatically reduce gas prices?”
Why the difference?
The price of gas (and the oil that it comes from) is not going to go down, no matter what. Tiahrt and everyone else needs to grow a pair and admit it. Gone are the days of $2 a gallon gas. We’ve all been lied to from the beginning.
Instead, the vast majority of their record profits is going to stock dividends and buybacks, Associated Press reported.
There it is, gentlemen, in a nutshell. Do you think they’re going to give up their profits? Would you?
From the link read the link….
“HOUSTON - As giant oil companies such as Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips get set to report what will probably be another round of eye-popping quarterly profits, just where is all that money going?
The companies insist they’re trying to find new oil that might help bring down gas prices, but the money they spend on exploration is nothing compared with what they spend on stock buybacks and dividends.
It’s good news for shareholders, including retirement plans for millions of Americans, but it’s no help to drivers.
“The five biggest international oil companies plowed about 55 percent of the cash they made from their businesses into stock buybacks and dividends last year, up from 30 percent in 2000 and just 1 percent in 1993, according to Rice University’s James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy.
The percentage they spend to find new deposits of fossil fuels has remained flat for years, in the mid-single digits.”
Now for the rest of the story, the oil companies like any other capitalist enterprise exist to increase the bottom line of management and shareholders. Currently corporate management feels this is best served by stock buybacks and dividends. It’s about the money girls. It’s not about supply or wrapping the flag around the issue. You guys screaming about drill here drill now are not on the gravy train. b@tching about the libs not doing this or that as usual is feel good nonsense. Get a life girls start your own oil company show us sissy carbon credit carryin libs how it’s done. D@mn it do it fer merika
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3jwMfGACTY&feature=related
. It’s about the money girls. It’s not about supply or wrapping the flag around the issue. You guys screaming about drill here drill now are not on the gravy train. b@tching about the libs not doing this or that as usual is feel good nonsense. Get a life girls start your own oil company show us sissy carbon credit carryin libs how it’s done. D@mn it do it fer merika
Get out of the way and it will be done.
- No lawsuits
- No negative press and spreading falsehoods
- No restrictions drilling on federal land
Give them that and you’ll have so much gasoline, you can start your own gas tank farm.
Apophis = Oedipus
Sure am Oedipus, that is, “compiling that dossier on me to give to the BOE?”
And I can fully believe you are guilty of the perverted activities you are accused of.
Simply the most incompetent failure as a teacher that I have ever had knowledge of, and there are a lot of criminal ones in the new these days as more of your kind begin teaching. I fully expect to see your name in the headlines soon and it won’t be complimentary.
You went away for awhile, the blog was much more peaceful and entertaining, please go away again.
Where were you, a short incarceration in a government bed and breakfast.
We are the USA.
We shouldn’t have to contribute to the world’s oil supply.
Hoard our oil!
The oil companies are like a little kid that wants your candy, but refuses to open the ones in their hands.
Wrong Outlander, like our jobs and manufacturing, and wealth, we should share our oil with other countries. It’s the Republican thing to do!
By the way Oedipus,
The main reason I dislike and distrust you as a teacher so much is that your personality and character are clearly revealed by the fact that the only thing you bring to this blog are personal attacks on others. Usually right out of the gate, first post.
That is a dangerous characteristic present in a teacher of middle school children.
I attempt to throw your crap right back at you, as you deserve it.
No Phantom. It is our oil. Use theirs. No drilling here. It’s disturbs places I might want to go to some day.
Hoard our oil!
Oil company excuse, we can’t build refineries, it takes too long.
Oil company logic for more drilling. “If it’s going to take 18 yrs. to get the oil to market, we better get started. But, before we do, we need additional leases.
Actually, I agree, I was being sarcastic. If we continue on the way we have, the next generation may need that oil, to fight the mother of all oil wars.
Money quote:
“oil companies aren’t drilling. Instead, the vast majority of their record profits is going to stock dividends and buybacks, Associated Press reported.”
I think this is a last minute grab before bush and cheney and the oil cabal is forced to leave the fire sale. They’ve gotten EVERY goddam thing they ever wanted, and now they want more. Quickly, before the gravy train leaves town. They know if the next administration doesnt belong to mcsame, the train is pulling out. And they are on it, pulling up the tracks behind them.
And.. mark my words… the prices of gasoline and crude will continue to fall before the election. And skyrocket back up after the election.
I mean, it’s not like that hasnt happened before.
And they say bushco has no control over prices.
Heh. Heheheheheh. HEHEHEHEHEHE. HEE HEE HEE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Oh, man, wiping my eyes. Good one!
Dawg, glad to have you back. I am sympathetic to you sticking with your party. You believed in those people, and now your are being disappointed.
I feel the same way about western Kansas. I loved the people here and believed in them. Boy, was I ever wrong. I’m as disappointed in them as you are with the Republican Party.
It’s hell to believe in someone and/or something, and then be bitten by the very dog you defended.
Sorry to dogs. Even dogs wouldnt behave that way.
Unfortunately, people out here deserve every rotten thing they get. Just like the republican party.
I hope they both roast in hell.
But then, like the fable about the snake biting the one who helped it, “we knew what they were when we picked them up and took them in”.
It’s a good sound bite (Drill Here! Drill Now!) and works with people that’ll only get their info. from Fox, or Rush. So it’ll work in Ks. for sure.
(Few days ago I heard the ‘China’s drilling off Cuba’s shore)
It’s good news for shareholders, including retirement plans for millions of Americans, but it’s no help to drivers.
So I’m guessing with the rising cost of gas, even those future retiree-shareholders aren’t going to be dragging out the old motorhome nearly as much.
Guess what? Sooner or later, it’s going to be painful for everyone. Yeah, even the haves and have mores.
We shouldn’t have to contribute to the world’s oil supply.
So the gas shortage of the 70’s was only a fairytale?
Imagine that.
Hi Pre.
“Guess what? Sooner or later, it’s going to be painful for everyone. Yeah, even the haves and have mores.”
Not necessarily. Like Haliburton, the haves and have mores are moving to Dubai. And the bushes to Paraguay.
No wonder they keep telling the rest of us to “love it or leave it”.
They are LEAVING it for places with cheaper petro products and more fresh water.
……….boxtop, I never actually “went away”.
One week, I was on a cruise with my wife
A second week, I was a delegate to the NEA convention.
The third week, I attended another education conference.
Face it boxtop, you’re just another nasty, angry reichwingers who will soon be in total shock when Obama is elected President of the United States and the eight years of national disgrace will be over.
Do I “attack out of the gate”?
Yes, I do……………………………….but only on the miserable, disgusting likes of you and the rest of the reichwing cabal. There is NOTHING your kind can bring to a discussion that is worthwhile.
Bring on your accusations in a open, public setting if you have anything real. I guess that’s the real problem, you’ve “got ‘nuthin”!
I’d venture to say the average citizen that sees benefit from their 401k from oil speculation/profit, is more than offset by their increased cost of living. Only the wealthy receive a disparate benefit.
“In the Gulf of Mexico, where there is infrastructure for transporting the oil you have a significant increase in production a year and a half after getting a rig.” — blah blah
There are rigs working today all over the Gulf, but most are drilling for natural gas.
http://intelligencepress.com/features/bakerhughes/
Does not God provide for all your/our needs, does he not hold the world in his hands? Did he not put the oil in the ground in the first place? Oil has been used for a very long time in human history. Oil was used for lighting, and energy in most of recorded history. So why are we right now saying oil is evil and we need to stop using it for the good of the planet? It’s all a whisper from the Devil to stop us from receiving a gift from God and move us farther from him.
The United States has 2% of the world’s oil reserves, but uses 25% of the energy.
Simple math.
Hoard our oil — what a genius……. we can spend more money trying to get access and control over oil fields in the mideast than the oil is worth —-
typical greedy con —– lets let other people’s kids die so you can drive a hummer —- brilliant
regular is really hung up on everyone else’s sex life —- could it be because he hasn’t gotten laid or even a good stiffy in almost 20 years —- what a loser —- and little man price is pretty much in the same boat — momma cut him off years ago — and Nathan doesn’t know what do it with it unless he’s with a platoon of marines
Gas prices have gone down 15% since China decreased subsidizing their own artificially low price. We haven’t started “Drilling here” and gas prices are down.
Drilling here won’t affect price as much as it will affect our economy. If ANWR is half what people are saying, we could have a Dow in the 16,000’s in a little less than 2 years.
- Or so Greg (my financial advisor) tells me.
Alternative energy sources equal enhanced security and lessened foreign entanglements. Let’s stop this bleeding of US funds to offshore oil producers. All opposed, say “Nay.”
Heck, even McCain and Bush support it…
“Drilling here won’t affect price as much as it will affect our economy. If ANWR is half what people are saying, we could have a Dow in the 16,000’s in a little less than 2 years.
- Or so Greg (my financial advisor) tells me.
Sounds like your adviser would be all for selling our strategic limited natural resources to get a bump in the DOW.
Could be Phantom. But that is another wrinkle, isn’t it?
But even Greg won’t speculate as to whether it will happen or not.
Please, everybody look at this >>>>
http://www.pickensplan.com
Watch the charts!!
The CONs use a crisis to ram through what they wanted to do anyway even when it won’t help the crisis?
Hmmm . . . where have I seen that before?
The Iraq War, Social Security privitazion, Illegal spying, Deregulation, etc. etc.
Picking up on what Indie said:
The Nazis discovered that even the emaciated bodies of starving Jews contained enough fat that they would support the fire of an oven.
It’s high time we cut out the “middle men” and simply ran our cars on the bodies of Iraqi children. Turn the refineries into rendering plants.
Fuel for our automobiles and a reduction of “future terrorists.” It’s a win-win solution.
:roll:
You CONs who worship at the altar of laizzes faire capitalism don’t understand that the law of Supply and Demand no longer applies to the Oil Bidness.
It’s like what DeBeers did with diamonds. Diamonds aren’t particularly rare. They’re carbon; highly-evolved coal. But, like good 19th Century monopolists, the DeBeers pretty much cornered the market on these rocks and started marketing them as de rigeur for young kids wanting to get married. It’s like how Hallmark marketed a “need” to get someone a birthday or Christmas card; how they made Mother’s Day and Valentine’s Day somehow dependent on cards.
There is no shortage of oil. If you have the four-bucks-a-gallon, you can get all the gasoline you want. Just like you can get all the big-ass diamonds you want, if you pay the price.
DeBeers has tons of diamonds in its vaults in London. They just sell them a few at a time, at premium prices, thanks to trumped-up “rarity” of the product.
Big Oil has millions of American acres under lease for drilling. If those leases aren’t productive, why would Big Oil keep ‘em? If those leases are potentially productive, why wouldn’t Big Oil develop them? Because all those leases are like DeBeers’ diamonds in that vault. The only way to keep profitable is to create a false “rarity” and jack up the prices.
“CapnAmerica” goes full Jonathan Swift with –
“It’s high time we cut out the “middle men” and simply ran our cars on the bodies of Iraqi children. Turn the refineries into rendering plants.”
I think you’re channeling “RedWhiteNBlue.”
;^)
I think MH has nailed it once again.
The profit margin doesn’t work if you can make more profit by not selling your product than by selling it.
That’s what Big Oil is doing now.
The way to bust a virtual monopoly is to reduce demand.
Funny how the oil men running the country don’t have much real interest in doing that . . .
I SAY: Why not let them drill wherever they want to?
That means let them drill where it is most cost effective.
Why do some members of congress AND PHILLIP BROWNLEE rather give our oil money to the countries that want to kill US than to the oil companies that only want to send us to the poor house? Not a great choice but again the lesser of two evils.
BROWNLEE, IF IT IS GOING TO TAKE TEN YEARS WE HAD BETTER GET STARTED DRILLING NOW!
We should be not just looking at all options, WE SHOULD BE DOING ALL OPTIONS.
Stop with this BS excuse that it will take ten years and only lower the price a few cents. That is a few cents that will not be going to our enemies!
Hey, RightAngle.
What’s to say that the American oil won’t be sold to the Red Chinese?
It’s private oil. They can sell to whoever they want to sell to.
How much “American” oil stays in our country now? Anybody know?
“That is a few cents that will not be going to our enemies!”
Do you mean like the Saudis? You know, like the Saudi Prince that Bush was shown holding hands with?
Those enemies?
Wichita Eagle Dictionary:
“most experts” = “the Wichita Eagle wants to make stuff up”
You have absolutely noone, on record, saying that it would take 20 years to bring any current, known reserve online.
On this very Blog, the conservatives have argued that it might take 5 years while the libs have said it might take 10. And the Eagle pulls 20 years out of nowhere?
Supply and Demand are always in a delicate balance, with any commodity. A very small increase or decrease in supply or demand can impact price in a very dramatic fashion.
Besides, any energy that we do produce, domestically, will generate jobs.
Any energy that we do produce, domestically, will produce billions of dollars in Federal, State and Local tax revenues.
CapnAmerica
Posted July 23, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Permalink
Hey, RightAngle.
What’s to say that the American oil won’t be sold to the Red Chinese?
It’s private oil. They can sell to whoever they want to sell to.
How much “American” oil stays in our country now? Anybody know?
=======================================
Yes CapnAmerica, I agree that any new law that would allow ANY NEW DRILLING would require that the additional be kept in the US. No shell game!
Monopoly?
USA Oil Cartel?
You libs are dellusional. Exxon is not even in the top 10 oil companies, in the world, yet Exxon is the largest domestic oil company.
How in the world can you suggest that American businesse have any control at all, over prices at the pump?
Actually, domestic production helps to keep prices lower than they would be, without domestic production.
And the “unused lease” argument is completely bogus.
The law already requires that any lease holder make use of the lease. However, if their is no transportation, no pipeline, no oil field service available at this time, there is no reason to drill some leases.
Also, many of those leases are worthless, there is no oil under most of the land in question.
“RightAngle” rants –
“Why do some members of congress AND PHILLIP BROWNLEE rather give our oil money to the countries that want to kill US than to the oil companies that only want to send us to the poor house? Not a great choice but again the lesser of two evils.”
I’ll type slowly so you can keep up.
Oil is a commodity. All oil is the same, as far as the Oil Bidness is concerned.
The only way the “Drill here! Sell here! Burn Here” slogan works for the benefit of… well, “here”… is if all American oil were to be mandated to be used exclusively in the United States.
The Oil Bidness is a multi-national enterprise with no loyalty to flag or country. Exxon-Mobil and Conoco-Phillips may have offices in the United States, but they have no desire or incentive to market their products independent of the international commodities market (where speculators are jacking up the price).
The only way “Drill Here! Burn Here!” could work if all American-produced oil were mandated to be sold in America. The only way to do that is to nationalize Big Oil. Somehow I suspect you don’t know what you’re advocating, “Right Angle.”
Actually
The end user of the oil does NOT matter.
In economic terms, every car on the road today is powered by a world supply of oil.
In economic terms, every oil well, in the world today, feeds world wide demand.
Any production, anywhere, helps meet demand.
Any production, anywhere, helps control price.
WSClark
Posted July 23, 2008 at 12:54 pm | Permalink
“That is a few cents that will not be going to our enemies!”
Do you mean like the Saudis? You know, like the Saudi Prince that Bush was shown holding hands with?
Those enemies?
=============================================
YES CLARK THOSE, DO YOU AND THE WICHITA EAGLE LOVE THEM TOO MUCH?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/if-we-drill-in-the-us-we_b_114525.html
One thing has been driving me crazy about this drilling debate — everyone seems to assume that if we drill for oil in the US, that we will get the oil. And hence, we won’t be dependent on foreign oil anymore. But we won’t get anything, Exxon-Mobil will.
The oil that comes from that drilling will not be United States property (Republicans aren’t suggesting we nationalize the oil companies, are they?). It will be the property of whichever oil company got the rights to that contract. They can then sell it to whoever they like — and they will. They will sell it on the world market, so the Chinese will have just as much access to the oil that comes out of the coast of Florida as we will.
The Democrats have done a decent job of beating back the argument that this will effect prices in the short run, or even in the long run. But no one has addressed the point above. The Republicans make it seem like we won’t be dependent on foreign oil — and that prices will go down in the US — if we have our own oil. But it won’t be ours. And it will be sold on the world market, so its effect on global oil prices will be even smaller.
When we ask the question of whether there should be drilling off the coast of Florida or in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, we should ask the question this way — would you be comfortable with the Chinese or the Germans or Russians or the Saudis drilling on American land? Because for all intents and purposes, they will be.
Any conservation, anywhere, helps reduce demand.
Any conservation, anywhere, helps reduce price.
“Franklin” –
If you’d stuck it out and actually taken Econ 102, you’d realize that supply and demand has nothing to do with the current oil price crisis in America.
“YES CLARK THOSE, DO YOU AND THE WICHITA EAGLE LOVE THEM TOO MUCH?”
It wasn’t me shown holding hands and playing kissyface with members of the Saudi Royal Family, it was your hero George WMD Bush.
Personally, I consider the Saudi Arabians to be largely oppressive and hypocritical.
But, that’s just my opinion.
Besides, we get more oil from Canada and Venezuela than we do Saudi Arabia.
You know, those Canadians that are our mortal enemies?
“If you’d stuck it out and actually taken Econ 102, you’d realize that supply and demand has nothing to do with the current oil price crisis in America.”
Indeed.
Oil companies are charging the prices they charge for the same reason my friend’s dog jumps the fence.
Just because she can!
Personally, I consider the Saudi Arabians to be largely oppressive and hypocritical.
But, that’s just my opinion.
========================================
Mine too, could not agree more on that one but I would not put Venezuela as a friend togeather with Canada. I believe that the law that would be passed to allow drilling could limit exporting of the additional oil.
=
Maybe a law to stop all exporting of US oil would geet their attention.
A few treaties will need to be renegotiated before oil found here can stay here. Complications!
“Maybe a law to stop all exporting of US oil would geet their attention.” [Right Angle]
Ummmm that would be a sort of Nationalization proocess…
“Drilling would dramatically reduce gas prices?”
What would not drilling do? You people want gas prices high to further your agenda. I know because I listen to the goverment funded NPR.
“You people want gas prices high to further your agenda.”
Just out of curiosity, what IS our agenda, Fleet?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/25518912
As Oil Firms Seek Drilling Access, Exports Set Record
By Reuters | 03 Jul 2008 |
While the U.S. oil industry wants access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, U.S.-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.
A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department.
The surge in exports appears to contradict the pleas from the U.S. oil industry and the Bush administration for Congress to open more offshore waters and Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.
More at link . . .
“Just out of curiosity, what IS our agenda, Fleet?”
Using blather headed talking points like this:
“The United States has 2% of the world’s oil reserves, but uses 25% of the energy.”
Gas prices at record high.
4 dollars a gallon.
US imports of oil.
Billions of dollars a year.
Seeing CONs like Fleettwood have to take out a second mortgage so they can fill up their ten year old Yukons.
Priceless.
“The United States has 2% of the world’s oil reserves, but uses 25% of the energy.”
Facts are “blather headed talking points?”
Sorry, it is a bit more than 2%, but less than 3%.
http://www.nrdc.org/air/energy/fensec.asp
“Reducing U.S. Oil Dependence - A Real Energy Security Policy”
“Americans consume 25 percent of the world’s produced oil, but our nation holds less than 3 percent of the world’s proven oil reserves.”
Shoot me, my bad, I was off by a percent.
RightAngle: Maybe those two countries should be together for there is a never-seen-before surge of dislke for the US in Canada right now. I read an online Canadian newspaper paper that has poll results from time to time about anti-American sentiment there and the UK Guardian shows the Brits have similar inclinations. I think we have to remember no nation has permanent friends or enemies, only national interests. We would, and should send care packages to Casto if it furthered our National interests. If NAFTA is re-opened I betcha the sweet deal we have on all Canadian energy, (natual gas, oil and hydro) other mineral and natural resources will be taken off the table entirely and replaced with nationalistic policies.
““The United States has 2% of the world’s oil reserves, but uses 25% of the energy.””
So what? We use energy because we must. Our allies aren’t going to save themselves.
“So what? We use energy because we must. Our allies aren’t going to save themselves.”
How is driving a gas-guzzling SUV helping our allies?
We have five percent of the population and use 25% of the oil.
So, what was it about “blather headed talking points?”
Hmmmm…
Supply and Demand.
If we increase the supply then prices go down. Duh.
Drill more, Drill Now, Pay Less.
In the meantime, we can work on alternative sources of energy.
“Drill more, Drill Now, Pay Less.”
And Fleetwood accuses me of “blather headed talking points.”
Still waiting for details on the “agenda” Fleet.
“We have five percent of the population and use 25% of the oil.”
Again, so what? What else would you expect from the richest, free-est, greatest nation on Earth?
“Drilling would dramatically reduce gas prices?”
Let us rephrase the question into something less dramatic.
“Drilling would reduce gas prices?”
There is only one answer, students.
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 3:05 pm
“Hmmmm…
Supply and Demand.
If we increase the supply then prices go down. Duh.”
—————
Supply AND Demand.
If we decrease the demand then prices go down.
We can decrease the demand faster than we can increase the supply.
And it’s cheaper to decrease the demand.
Drilling would dramatically reduce gas prices?”
Let us rephrase the question into something less dramatic.
“Drilling would reduce gas prices?”
There is only one answer, students.”
I’ll pass that along to the oil companies, after all it’s in their best interest to lower the price of oil. hahahahahahahahahaha-hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
Cosmos,
Will you force people to reduce the demand?
Why can’t we increase supply AND decrease demand?
What I really want to know is why are the liberals so opposed to doing anything about increasing the supply?
Still waiting for details on the “agenda” Fleet.
“What else would you expect from the richest, free-est, greatest nation on Earth?”
Thanks to Republican policies (deficits and debt) are rapidly going from richest to not so rich. The Euro and Yen have risen in value greatly, while the dollar has dropped like a stone.
“Nathaniel” reached the pinnacle of his intellectual contributions to this forum with –
“…Duh….”
“Nathaniel?” The grown-ups have already discussed and debunked the logic of your “Drill here! Buy here! Burn here” sloganeering.
Please try to
shutkeep up.“What I really want to know is why are the liberals so opposed to doing anything about increasing the supply?”
Go ahead, increase the supply in an environmentally safe, productive manner - like drilling in the areas where you already have permits.
Why are the governors of California and Florida opposed to drilling off their coasts?
The REPUBLICAN governors, that is.
“like drilling in the areas where you already have permits.”
Why not drill everywhere? Why do you people like the high price of gas? NPR knows.
P.S. Arnold is not a Republican.
And, again………………
Still waiting for details on the “agenda” Fleet.
WS Clark,
Why don’t we grow corn and wheat in the desert?
We have all that land we could be growing food on….
“We have all that land we could be growing food on….”
We don’t have a food shortage, we do, however, have a water shortage in most of the west.
Have fun trying to grow corn and wheat without irrigation in the desert.
George Will and the agenda of the you people:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121401933.html
“For some people, environmentalism is collectivism in drag. Such people use environmental causes and rhetoric not to change the political climate for the purpose of environmental improvement. Rather, for them, changing the society’s politics is the end, and environmental policies are mere means to that end.”
Nathaniel. I am going to infur that you consider me a liberal. Even though libertarians are more economically conservative than republicans.
Given that, I have no problem with drilling. I just know that China’s artifical demand created more problems than most other variables. As I keep saying, China softening their own subsidies have already had an effect without drilling yet. Unless you agree that some psychological boost came from Dubya talking. If you believe that, I’ve got a 55 chevy for $20,000.
“George Will and the agenda of the you people”
Ah, so George Will KNOWS our agenda…………
By the way, that was just about the most twisted logic, entirely moronic column that I have ever read.
And it was total BS.
The oil companies have leases - go for it - fire up the drilling equipment.
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 3:26 pm
“Will you force people to reduce the demand?”
No. People want higher energy energy efficiency.
“Why can’t we increase supply AND decrease demand?”
What I really want to know is why are the liberals so opposed to doing anything about increasing the supply?”
It takes an investment of only about $12 (year 2000 $’s) to save each barrel with higher energy efficiency. And unlike more drilling, it’s guaranteed, and cleaner.
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
I want to know why “conservatives”(sic) want to spend $140 to buy a barrel, instead of $12 to not buy it.
“The unending argument in political philosophy concerns constantly adjusting society’s balance between freedom and equality. The primary goal of collectivism — of socialism in Europe and contemporary liberalism in America — is to enlarge governmental supervision of individuals’ lives. This is done in the name of equality.”
“is to enlarge governmental supervision of individuals’ lives.”
Pure BS, absolute nonsense, rubbish.
The EXACT opposite is the truth.
“Therefore, one of the collectivists’ tactics is to produce scarcities, particularly of what makes modern society modern — the energy requisite for social dynamism and individual autonomy. Hence collectivists use environmentalism to advance a collectivizing energy policy. Focusing on one energy source at a time, they stress the environmental hazards of finding, developing, transporting, manufacturing or using oil, natural gas, coal or nuclear power.”
Pure BS, absolute nonsense, rubbish.
THE BIGGEST SINGLE STEP the United States can take to curb global warming and save oil is to raise the fuel economy of our cars and light trucks.
http://www.sierraclub.org/energy/biggestsinglestep/
In this section:
* Introduction
* Innovative Technology Can Help Free Us From Our Dangerous Oil Dependence
* We Can Safely Improve Our Fuel Economy
* Creating Clean Cars In America Creates Jobs At Home
* Take Action!
Charles Krauthammer on the agenda of the you people:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/29/AR2008052903266.html
“The doomsday scenarios posit a cascade of events, each with a certain probability. The multiple improbability of their simultaneous occurrence renders all such predictions entirely speculative.
Yet on the basis of this speculation, environmental activists, attended by compliant scientists and opportunistic politicians, are advocating radical economic and social regulation. “The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and prosperity,” warns Czech President Vaclav Klaus, “is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism.”"
clark’s brilliance:
“Pure BS, absolute nonsense, rubbish.”
WSClark
Posted July 23, 2008 at 3:52 pm | Permalink
“We have all that land we could be growing food on….”
We don’t have a food shortage, we do, however, have a water shortage in most of the west.
——-
WS there a lot of people that wouldn’t agree with you that we don’t have a food shortage. Have you bought bread lately? The increased cost goes back to a shortage of grain. Of course that is also affected by the dems mandating that ethanol be part of our gasoline blend eventually.
Oh well I thought I had the answer!
“WS there a lot of people that wouldn’t agree with you that we don’t have a food shortage.”
The price of food has gone up due to fuel and transportation prices, not due to shortages.
“clark’s brilliance”
Ah, they don’t call Fleetwood BDP for nothing.
WS why don’t you ask Farmgrl why she held onto her corn and how much the price went up in the last year? I know you wouldn’t believe me so ask her.
“Of course that is also affected by the dems mandating that ethanol be part of our gasoline blend eventually.”
Another Lib idea to be filed under “It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time”
The brilliance continues:
“Ah, they don’t call Fleetwood BDP for nothing.”
You asked for the agenda of the you peoples, more than once, but you already knew what it was:
“There’s no greater social power than the power to ration. And, other than rationing food, there is no greater instrument of social control than rationing energy, the currency of just about everything one does and uses in an advanced society.”
BDP’s fleettwood’s George F. Will:
“Ice roads and helicopter pads, which will melt each spring, will minimize man’s footprint, which will be on a 2,000-acre plot about one-fifth the size of Dulles Airport.”
Does fleettwood enjoy stupidly believing George F. Will’s multiple, obvious lies?
A speculative map of Will’s “2,000-acre plot”(sic)
http://www.inforain.org/Northslope/anwr_3.html
Impact of the oil technology that would be used in the Refuge,
http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/AlpineNoEnvironmentalShowpiece.pdf
‘Potential Impacts of Oil and Gas Development on Refuge Resources’
http://arctic.fws.gov/issues1.htm#section4
The Arctic Refuge geology is unknown — the Badami field is about 1/2 way between Prudhoe and the western edge of the Refuge, and didn’t produce as expected.
Badami shut down a few years ago, then restarted when oil prices rose. It’s still having problems, even with very high prices.
‘BP and Savant looking at Badami restart’
http://www.petroleumnews.com/pntruncate/610780426.shtml
“Major and independent would drill two wells over the next two years to avoid losing lands at the unit, hopefully restart field.”
cosmo, perhaps you have missed the point.
You won’t find this discussion on one of your talking point websites. Where did you get your science degree?
““Therefore, one of the collectivists’ tactics is to produce scarcities, particularly of what makes modern society modern — the energy requisite for social dynamism and individual autonomy.”
BDP fleettwood, you have missed the point.
You believe that a “discussion” from a proven liar is accurate.
More agenda from Krauthammer:
“Just as the ash heap of history beckoned, the intellectual left was handed the ultimate salvation: environmentalism. Now the experts will regulate your life not in the name of the proletariat or Fabian socialism but — even better — in the name of Earth itself.”
Perhaps KFG is the culprit, had she sold her corn, she would’ve driven prices down! (at least theoretically speaking, as are the Driller’s)
Just for the record, I dont grow or sell corn. Only wheat.
And the increased commodity prices dont have a phucking thing to do with supply or demand. It’s all about speculators haveing too much cash and nowhere to put it now that real estate and financial instruments are in the tank.
Supply side economics was exposed as hog wash by st. ronnie ray-gun and his merry band of economic idiots. See my post on the same subject on today’s open thread.
Bernanke testified before congress a few days ago, that ’speculators or more accurately manipulators, are not a big part of the problem, since other commodities have shot up ), wonder how he explains the plunge in oil prices? How can markets move so much in so little time without speculators?
Bernanke testified before congress a few days ago, that ’speculators or more accurately manipulators, are not a big part of the problem, since other commodities have shot up ), wonder how he explains the plunge in oil prices? How can markets move so much in so little time without speculators?
The “speculator” argument is hogwash:
“Granted, raw-material prices have exploded across the board. Look at the table below. It shows price increases for eight major commodities from 2002 to 2007. Oil rose 177 percent, corn 70 percent and copper 360 percent. But that’s just the point. Did “speculators” really cause all these increases? If so, why did some prices go up more than others? And what about steel? It rose 117 percent—and continued increasing in 2008—even though it’s not traded on commodities futures markets.
A better explanation is basic supply and demand.”
fleettwood posted,
“Therefore, one of the collectivists’ tactics is to produce scarcities, particularly of what makes modern society modern — the energy requisite for social dynamism and individual autonomy.”
—————
That proves that liberals are not collectivists. Liberals want to greatly reduce the demand of oil, which will reduce “scarcities” — and will also help improve our modern society.
THE BIGGEST SINGLE STEP the United States can take to curb global warming and save oil is to raise the fuel economy of our cars and light trucks.
http://www.sierraclub.org/energy/biggestsinglestep/
In this section:
* Introduction
* Innovative Technology Can Help Free Us From Our Dangerous Oil Dependence
* We Can Safely Improve Our Fuel Economy
* Creating Clean Cars In America Creates Jobs At Home
* Take Action!
Building refineries and drilling stopped in America, not because of some oil cartel but because of the government appeasing to the environmentalist groups. It cost more to build a refinery in America. The refineries built in America have to meet federal regulations imposed upon them by environmental groups to be cleaner in the processing of the oil and gas products. Which they have done very well. Therefore, it is cheaper to build them outside of the U.S. Not only that but they are not being allowed to build or drill in America either by our government officials such as in the case of Colorado’s Senator Ken Salazar.
It is not the oil companies that don’t want to drill, it is your dear government officials. And if the oil companies can drill more, they can bring down their price. The more product you have, the less you can charge and make even more profit. That is the case in anything that you do in business. Just look at electronics, the more the demand, the more the product and the less you have to charge. It is so elementary and logical.
Why does everyone insist on believing everything that the MSM tells you. “They are lying to you Killian”.
After seeing the names of Will and Kauthammer mentioned in one thread, I will find it difficult to accept that liberals control blogs.
“The more product you have, the less you can charge and make even more profit.”
That is so phucking stupid it makes my eyes burn to read it.
When supply increases, prices only decrease if demand holds constant or declines. If supply and demand both increase, prices do NOT come down.
Jesus WEPT!
BUt nice try at conflation and confustion mixing supply demand and prices, like you did here:
“That is the case in anything that you do in business. Just look at electronics, the more the demand, the more the product and the less you have to charge.”
For god’s SAKE! Increased demand does not equal increased supply. WTF? If increased demand created increased supply, we’d be swimming in freakin’ oil.
Increasing demand does not increase prices unless supply concurrently is stable or declines.
WTF school of economics did you attend. The school of rock(headed)?
I’m asking again, but I know it’s rhetorical.
Is there one goddamn con on this blog who actually PASSED an economics course?
And you think it’s the MSM who’s misleading?
heh. Hehehehe. HEHEHEHEHE. HEE HEE HEE. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Hell, you sound as dumb on supply and demand issues as nathan and germie.
“That proves that liberals are not collectivists. Liberals want to greatly reduce the demand of oil, which will reduce “scarcities””
That day will come. It’s not here now. In the mean time, why do you people fight increasing the oil supply? “Scarcity” wouldn’t have anything to do with it, would it? HMMM?
As long as the price of gas is high, your agenda looks better. We’ve seen this many times over the years. Gas goes up, the Eagle and you people go nuts, crying for your agenda. The price goes down, you people shut up.
Drill here, conserve here, pay less.
“It is not the oil companies that don’t want to drill, it is your dear government officials. And if the oil companies can drill more, they can bring down their price.”
WTF?
First it was the “libruls” who didnt want to increase supply and now it’s the government who doesnt want to drill?
And oil companies want to drill more because… wait for it.. it will BRING DOWN THEIR PRICES?
Woof.
Yeah. Because lowing prices is what the oil companies LIVE to do.
WHO TF let you out of the asylum today?
Oedipus posts,
“One week, I was on a cruise with my wife
A second week, I was a delegate to the NEA convention.
The third week, I attended another education conference.”
Who could possibly care, except that you were gone!
Your posts are worthless, as I’m sure you are as a teacher as well.
fleetie sure has competition here for the title of BDP (Blog’s dumbest poster)
He’s got STIFF competition for dumbest poster on economics.
Pleased for you all to be picking up your plaques and trotting your dumb asses off to listen to talk radio.
something to take a peek at
“Any production, anywhere, helps meet demand.
“Any production, anywhere, helps control price.”
The above would be true if the world demand for oil was not rising. Any oil put on the world market from the U.S. will be gobbled up by growing demand and will make little to no difference. You’d think Paul would know this, but I guess not.
Jesus WEPT. It would be funny if it wasnt so sad.
“Did “speculators” really cause all these increases? If so, why did some prices go up more than others?”
The stock market is nothing but speculation. Why do some stock prices go up more than others?
Commodity prices vary with speculation because… wait for it.. speculators “speculate” some have more potential for price increases than others.
Goddam fleetie? Even YOU cant be THAT stew-pud.
fleettwood,
Name the domestic “site” that’s guaranteed to produce about 8 BILLION barrels during the next 30 years.
Increasing our light vehicle fleet mileage by only 1 mpg.
“will be gobbled up by growing demand and will make little to no difference”
And how much will prices increase with NO increase in production Steven?
Supply and demand can only be considered in tandem. Neither really exists alone. They only exist in relationship to each other.
But I suppose that’s too many big words for you con “economists”.
Farmgrl in your own humble way you are asking for help. The oil market right now is being driven by speculators. They look at world conditions such as a full blown nuclear war between Iran and Israel and ’speculate’ on oil futures that the price of oil will go up. This is because at least 40% of the worlds oil might be stopped in the gulf by Iran.
This would decrease the supply of oil and thus the price of fuel would go up. The fuel you buy today isn’t really based on the price of oil today except that when the source is tapped to replace the amount sold it will come at a higher price.
Supply and demand will indeed drive every market including the grain market as you have pointed out. The oil industry is just structured a little differently.
Sorry you needed help on this but always willing to step in when a lib is in trouble. It’s a full time job lately.
I hope to god someday the “invisible hand” slaps you cons upside the head and knocks some reason into your pea brains…
One other point frmgrl is that speculators also look at the fact that the prez opened up more off shore drilling and the public is demanding more thus they aren’t ’speculating’ that the price of oil will remain as high because the supply will be increased.
I must admit I have wished for the same thing for the libs.
Germie, for the most part, you are too stupid to live, much less comment on economics.
Speculation has NOTHING to do with the supply of oil. It has everything to do with the price.
You like to think you are an economict. And as an economist, you are a great grandmother.
Just like Willie Nelson, as a tax accountant, is a great guitar player….
Woof. Carry on with your delusional economics. You cant roller skate in a buffalo herd and you cant make cons understand supply and demand.
Interesting how many of you follow the Saudi King on the speculation angle to oil prices….
I remember the 1970’s when the new organization called OPEC, nationalized the oil industries in their nations - and increased the price per barrel.
I guess this was “speculation”.
Long live the King?
Anybody else notice that when the Libs are in a corner, the insults fly?
“We are sitting on a ham sandwich and starving”
Oh yeah, and if Roger Miller isnt enough for you to understand, how about the great redneck Ron White.
“you cant fix stupid”
Especially WILLFULLY stupid.
ksfarmgrrl
You can’t take pictures with a kid on your back.
Chug-a-lug Chug-a-lug. Wants me wanna scream “Hi dee Ho! Burns my belly dontcha know.”
Grew up on Roger Miller.
I’m outa here. My outrage meter for con stupidity is pegged in the red zone. “you people” get what you deserve.
4H and the FFA, on a field trip, to the farm…..
Of course most people will only remember:
Trailers for Sale or Rent……
Enjoy your high wheat prices farmie! Keep sockin it to us!
“Trailers for Sale or Rent”
For some reason, when my “band” does that song, the folks go nuts! It does have staying power.
“Enjoy your high wheat prices farmie! Keep sockin it to us!”
I, for one, say good on you.
I will not be calling for an excess profits tax.
“I will not be calling for an excess profits tax.”
That’s right. Hillary was wrong. Oil companies are not the problem here.
You can’t fix stupid.
“You can’t fix stupid.”
What’s next in your quiver of genius?
Get a life? or Too much information?
or Gitter done? or Kiss my grits?
“such as a full blown nuclear war between Iran and Israel and ’speculate’”
Ahmadickhead hasn’t learned how to pronounce NUKE-you-lar yet and you are blaming oil prices on Iran?
Nonsense. That is just the Neocon “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” Party line.
If you want to really examine the high cost of oil, look are the value of the dollar v. other foreign currencies.
First, according to the cons on this blog, it was the environmentalists who were blocking all attempts by the oil companies to drill. Then it was the Liberals. Now it’s the government. Tomorrow it will be aliens from mars, then dolphins, whales, ’skeeters, my dog spot (wait, I don’t have a dog), the tree in my back yard, the right reverend bob bigot and finally Generalissimo Franco. Did I miss anybody, or thing? Oh, ya, fried chicken legs battered with pancake mix.
“First, according to the cons on this blog, it was the environmentalists who were blocking all attempts by the oil companies to drill. Then it was the Liberals.”
Those are the same thing. I guess we are correct.
Fleet = BDP.
Fleet = BDP.
In the corner = insult.
That’s fine. I wear the label proudly, coming from you people.
“And how much will prices increase with NO increase in production Steven?”
An unknown, to me, amount.
There has been a tiny reduction in oil prices recently that cons are attributing to Bush’s off shore drilling support. Another possibility is Bush’s recent and surprising willingness to talk with Iran. I look forward to the day when we have a non-retarded foreign policy (apologies to you real intellecutally disabled people).
“That’s fine. I wear the label proudly, coming from you people.”
It is a universal sentiment, Fleet, not exclusive to liberals or moderates.
Hey, do you have your tickets to the Decemberists concert yet, Fleet? I hear that they have to play at Arrowhead, since they are expect to draw 75K.
Ummmm OK — Who are the Decemberists??
:-)
We’re only concerned with the Novemberist!
ksfarmgrrl posts;
“I’m outa here. My outrage meter for con stupidity is pegged in the red zone. “you people” get what you deserve.”
I haven’t read the previous posts but whoever caused her to leave…..CONGRATULATIONS, VERY GOOD WORK!!!
Ah, you’re just cranky cuz she won’t go out with you, Box Head.
No WS, not cranky, I simply find her off-putting, rather disgusting actually.
Like you can be much of the time.
“No WS, not cranky, I simply find her off-putting, rather disgusting actually.”
Jeez, what a coincidence, Box Head. Most of the rest of the world finds you to be off-putting and disgusting, actually.
Tsk, tsk - you know nothing of Ms. Grrl, yet you have this fixation on her.
Are you sure you don’t have a crush on our favorite farm girl?
Seems to me that you are a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit too interested in her life and sex life.
WS,
That’s maybe where your mind is….not mine.
I’m not even convinced she is actually female.
Neither am I convinced you are a man though, which has nothing to do with your gender.
http://www.myspace.com/thedecemberists
#
fleettwood
Posted July 23, 2008 at 7:21 pm | Permalink
“First, according to the cons on this blog, it was the environmentalists who were blocking all attempts by the oil companies to drill. Then it was the Liberals.”
Those are the same thing. I guess we are correct.
==============================================
I guess cherry picking is a con trait, huh? As it stands, fleet, you win the obtuse moron of the week award. Congrats are in order . . . so . . . Bronx cheer anyone?
“I’m not even convinced she is actually female.”
Idiotic, at best.
“Neither am I convinced you are a man though, which has nothing to do with your gender.”
Childish, third grade level insult, Box Head.
Fleetwood better watch it, Box Head is looking to take his crown……………
BoxLock,
KFG is a very nice lady in real life. I don’t agree with her on much of anything politically, but she was never anything but nice as a person.
I do agree that she makes some of the best potatoe salad and fried chicken around though!
Disagree with her as you wish, I know I do, but lets not make it personal.
Sorry, before the spelling police get me, I don’t know what I was thinking when I added that e to the end of potato…
“I’m not even convinced she is actually female.”
Uh yeah. I’ve met farmgrrl. Several other posters have as well.
Who has met YOU boxy?
Who wants to?
Drill our way out of this? How absurd.
It’s like saying we are on fire so we need more matches!
This nation WASTES in stupefying ways. That needs to end. I defy anyone to find ground to stand on against that.
Nathaniel, I’ll take your word for it, and respect that, but she is offensive to me. We’ve been around that barn several times and I dislike her responses to other peoples opinions. She gets very personal in her attacks. And I don’t care how good the potato salad and chicken, you can’t enjoy it, or even swallow it, when the company is so bad.
Like I said, I am more than willing to let it drop, but won’t sit and just take it either.
WS, the “Childish, third grade level insult” is directed at a childish, third grade level person. Seems appropriate.
BlueJay,
This is nothing like saying we are on fire and need more matches at all.
It is rather simple. The current supply of oil either is barely meeting the demand or is not. Price goes up.
If we have more oil (drill for it) then the supply goes up and price goes down.
“Seems appropriate.”
Nice try, Mr. Box Head, but thanks for playing the game anyway. Please collect your consolation prize on your way out the door.
BoxLock,
Yes, you are right, when it comes to certain issues she does get very mean.
I can’t say that I blame her, but I don’t condone it.
She is fighting for what she believes to be her right. I don’t agree with her calling everyone a bigot that disagrees with her or the other antics she uses, but lets face it, most people here act far worse than they ever would in person to one another.
I hope you are correct Nathaniel, about the way they would act in person, but I’m not convinced completely. Many seem to have little self-control, and even less ‘common sense’.
But, I hope you are right.
Good night, and thanks for the conversation and your opinion.
“It is rather simple. The current supply of oil either is barely meeting the demand or is not. Price goes up.”
Oh no not so. I don’t buy it.
If supply is BARELY meeting demand? Why are there NO shortages at all?
There hasn’t been a line for gas for thirty years.
Like Monkeyhawk said, it is readily available to anyone who can pay 4 bucks a gallon for it. NO examples of shortage = no shortage.
We are being gamed.
Oh but look at what has happened here lately!
T Boone Pickens came out with his plan. Al Gore too.
And SUDDENLY the price of gasoline….goes down!
That’s your speculators and traders getting a hint that they can’t game people who leave the table.
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 9:38 pm
“If we have more oil (drill for it) then the supply goes up and price goes down.”
—————-
If we become more energy efficient then the demand goes down and prices go down.
And even if prices don’t go down, it’s cheaper, because you buy less.
Mr.Davis points out,
“There has been a tiny reduction in oil prices recently that cons are attributing to Bush’s off shore drilling support.”
Drop in price has been attributed to an unexpected 3 million barrel buildup in one week of gasoline inventory. The best cure for high price are high prices
http://www.dailyfutures.com/energies/
Inventory data from the U.S. Department of Energy
(in millions of barrels):
For the week ending: July 18, 2008 Week ago Year ago
Crude oil 295.3 296.9 345.9
Motor Gasoline 217.1 214.2 204.9
Total Distillates 128.1 125.7 127.4
High-Sulfur Distillates 31.2 30.0 34.9
Strategic Petro. Reserve 706.2 706.1 690.3
Cosmos,
Once again, are you going to force people to be more efficient and force them to conserve?
We can both conserve and drill for more oil.
Why do you oppose drilling for more oil?
“And even if prices don’t go down, it’s cheaper, because you buy less.”
——————
Say what?
Dang cosmos, either you s*ck at explaining things or economics isn’t your thing.
“We can both conserve and drill for more oil.”
How many people have signed that idiot Newt Gingrich’s petition by now? More than a million?
Now, when they DO that, they are effectively saying “I don’t want to conserve! I don’t want to have to think! Give me cheap gas NOW!”
I wish I had a link. Faux Democrat con rant radio shill Tammy Bruce recently said on her show that Americans have a right to cheap gas. They have a right to waste. They have a right to an easy lifestyle! They shouldn’t HAVE to think or plan.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted July 23, 2008 at 5:56 pm | Permalink
Germie, for the most part, you are too stupid to live, much less comment on economics.
Speculation has NOTHING to do with the supply of oil. It has everything to do with the price.
You like to think you are an economict. And as an economist, you are a great grandmother.
Just like Willie Nelson, as a tax accountant, is a great guitar player….
—————–
Sorry I have a life to live and was off doing that so just got a chance to answer your insightful post.
See if you can get your arms around this farmie? When oil goes too low OPEC stops pumping oil until the supply gets low enough that the price goes back up and then low and behold they find more oil to pump. Look back at the news stories that back this up. I could do your bone dig but I think you have more time than I do. When you control such a large percentage of the worlds oil you can then set the price by withholding or supplying the oil to the market. This is why our economy is now at the beck and call of the mid east. The dims have done this with their energy policies over the years that made it impossible to build new refineries.
Maybe you can see a Walmart scenario better. When Walmart goes into a small town they lower their prices to get all of the traffic in. They buy in bulk and are therefore able to sell for less than the IGA store. When all of the local stores are forced out of business because everyone wants the cheaper prices - well then what happens? Walmart raises their prices. A simplistic example for a simplistic person. Just for you farmie.
Supply and demand drive the markets whether the libs are to dim to see it or not. Sorry you are so shallow that you have to resort to name calling when you run out of logic. Your loss.
Actually I am an accountant but have studied the economy. You should try it.
As for my status as a grandmother that is absolutely none of your business. Oh did that sound rude. Well pardon me. Please don’t take that personal.
The point is, if the idiots signing that petition actually SEE more drilling?
Well they will figure hey problem solved!
Of course, it won’t be. Just as it was not solved 30 years ago.
Yeah it figures that germie is an accountant.
She has no grasp on real life beyond numbers on a ledger.
Hello? WE in America can do almost NOTHING about supply.
Oh but we can do a whole lot about demand.
We can invent things and live in ways that say, “Ya know what? We don’t so much need so much of your oil! Get the damned price down or we’ll get even less addicted to the stuff!”
cosmos_originally
Posted July 23, 2008 at 10:03 pm | Permalink
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 9:38 pm
“If we have more oil (drill for it) then the supply goes up and price goes down.”
—————-
If we become more energy efficient then the demand goes down and prices go down.
And even if prices don’t go down, it’s cheaper, because you buy less.
———————
Cosmos I have finally figured it out. You are farmie or you went to the same econ classes.
Yes BJ even though you don’t deal with numbers you still have no people skills. So I guess you are doublly hurting.
Yes we can reduce our dependence on oil. We have fiddled and Rome is burning. If tomorrow we were told that in three or five or ten years there would be a pill that would make it unnessecary for us to eat real food - just take a pill 3 times a day. Well could we just set back and wait for the pill to come out or would we need to continue to eat until it became available.
The answer is obvious. So is the answer to the dems plan to make us not rely on oil for energy. It will come to pass in the future but in the meantime we have to have it or our entire economy will tank. Are you prepared for that?
This is just common sense. Why is this so hard for the libs to understand. We need to drill now.
YOU’RE an accountant and run a successful business germie?
Well, agian, I credit your employees. Clearly they do the real work.
The average American can affect the supply of oil…..how?
But the average American can DRAMATICALLY affect the demand for oil and other fossil fuels.
I think we can safely say from the things that those on the left have been saying here and in Congress that they want gas prices to go up. They want gas prices to be higher. Even Obama said it himself.
They want these high prices because it forces people to conserve.
They want people to not be able to use as much oil as they want and live life “wasting” energy.
Now that the prices are high, they refuse to do anything to make them cheaper.
You can see it in everything they post here.
BlueJay
Posted July 23, 2008 at 10:43 pm | Permalink
YOU’RE an accountant and run a successful business germie?
Well, agian, I credit your employees. Clearly they do the real work.
The average American can affect the supply of oil…..how?
But the average American can DRAMATICALLY affect the demand for oil and other fossil fuels.
—————————
You can affect the supply of oil by paying attention to how your congressmen and senators make decisions. Question those decisions. If they are self serving work to vote them out of office. Take back our country and return power to the voters where it needs to be.
By conserving we can help but conservation can only go so far before it cripples our economy.
I have never said I run our business. I have always said I worked outside the business until I retired. Why does that surprise you?
“Now that the prices are high, they refuse to do anything to make them cheaper.”
Ah, and when did Bush lift the executive order banning coastal drilling?
Two days ago?
Who is against drilling off their coasts?
The Republican governors of California and Florida?
Who is at fault here?
“Yes we can reduce our dependence on oil. We have fiddled and Rome is burning. ”
I could not agree more. President Carter TRIED to address this problem thirty years ago.
Then Ronald Reagan came along and told us everything was alright!
I guess I should go do my history.
I am wondering. When oil and coal came in? Was there a rush to slaughter more whales to get down the price of whale oil?
MAYBE there was. Some whale populations are still recovering more than 100 years later.
It is no different now. SOME want us to cling and frantically search for the last pill that may have rolled under the couch or fallen behind the toilet.
Oil is running out. Drilling more oil only postpones the solution to getting beyond it.
Unfortunately that is true Nathan. While sitting in the Chicago airport saturday night we met a man who had flown back from Tokyo that day. Right on schedule. Back in the good ole USofA we were waiting for a full plane to be available, for the mechanical problems to be fixed. The airlines are hurting with these fuel prices. Why is that so hard for the dems to see?
Cosmos said:
“And even if prices don’t go down, it’s cheaper, because you buy less.”
What is wrong with that statement? Makes perfect sense. You drive less, and so you buy less frequently; thus, cheaper over a course of weeks… Simple really…
“They want people to not be able to use as much oil as they want and live life “wasting” energy.”
I do believe Nathan is defending waste.
Or rather, Nathan is defending the right of those who have more to waste more.
BJ oil is not running out. That is wacko environmental garbage. We can’t change history but we can influence the future.
The defeatist do nothing attitude of the dems just frosts me. Maybe that is the major difference between Republicans and Democrats. When we started our business for the first 5 years we heard ‘you can’t make it’. We refused to give up. I worked a full time outside job for money to live on and the rest of the family worked 60 to 80 hours a week to keep the business afloat.
Democrats would have just caved and given up I guess. Expected the government to come take care f them. Well maybe there will be enough of the rest of us to pick up your sorry behinds and drag you along so this great country will survive.
“Why is that so hard for the dems to see?”
So with two “oil men” in the White House and it is the Democrats fault that energy prices are so high?
Yeah, right.
Chas
Posted July 23, 2008 at 10:56 pm | Permalink
Cosmos said:
“And even if prices don’t go down, it’s cheaper, because you buy less.”
What is wrong with that statement? Makes perfect sense. You drive less, and so you buy less frequently; thus, cheaper over a course of weeks… Simple really…
——————-
Chas if your job requires you to drive such as over the road drivers. How sensible is that statement?
“for the mechanical problems to be fixed”
That’s a real reach, too. The Democrats are at fault for the mechanical problems on the aircraft?
Huh?
I hate to leave three of the most interesting bloggers but it is past my bedtime. You just hang in there and talk logic all night.
“BJ oil is not running out.”
Sixty five years and counting………………
Even the Saudis are planning for a post-oil economy.
Damn.
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Why do you oppose drilling for more oil?
—————–
I ALREADY told you at 4:03 pm.
It takes an investment of only about $12 (year 2000 $’s) to save each barrel with higher energy efficiency. And unlike more drilling, it’s guaranteed, and cleaner.
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
I want to know why “conservatives”(sic) want to spend $140 to buy a barrel, instead of $12 to not buy it.
—————–
Nathaniel, WHY do you want to spend $140 to buy a barrel, instead of $12 to not buy it.
“BJ oil is not running out. ”
This statement defies reality.
I invite you to take a drive across Kansas.
SEE the dead, idle, stripper wells that dot the land like corpses.
Oil IS running out.It was the US started using it first. It stands to reason the US would run out…first.
These are facts. You cannot wish them away.
The Republicans controlled the House, Senate and Presidency from 2001 to 2007. Why didn’t THEY repeal the ban on coastal drilling and drilling in ANWR?
So now the Democrats have had control of the House and Senate for 18 months and everything is their fault?
What happened to the Republicans - the Party of Personal Responsibility?
Eh?
Cosmos,
Huh? I don’t buy barrels of oil. I buy gallons of gas.
I want a barrel of oil to go for 50 dollars or less so that the gallon of gas I buy only costs me about 1.50 or maybe 2.00.
I never just drove around town “wasting” gas just to do it. I have to drive to work, I drive to a few things for fun, and occasionaly I drive on long distances trips.
Most of those things I have to do whether or not gas costs me 5.00 dollars a gallon or 2.00. I would rather pay the 2.00.
The people that are being hurt by this are the ones who live pay check to pay check who have to drive to work with 2 cars because both work. They have to make it work.
What do you propse they do? Stop driving to work so that they can conserve on gas?
The people who can drive around and “waste” gas can afford to do it even if gas costs 10.00 dollars a gallon.
WS Clark,
If you look at those numbers you will also see that gas has gone up much more per gallon under the democrats in those 18 months than under the Republicans for 6 years.
Didn’t your party run on a commonsense plan to lower gas prices?
Where is it at?
I suppose telling people to conserve was your parties big plan?
So, Natie, why DIDN’T Bush and the Republican controlled Congress repeal the ban on coastal drilling and drilling in ANWR while they had control of both branches of government from 2001 to 2007?
Eh?
“If you look at those numbers you will also see that gas has gone up much more per gallon under the democrats in those 18 months than under the Republicans for 6 years.”
And what SPECIFICALLY did the Democratic majority in Congress do to cause the increase in oil/gas prices?
Be specific and show your work, Natie.
WS Clark,
The very first energy proposal tried to open up ANWR. The Democrats blocked it.
Unfortunately it was one of the things that Bush and the Republicans backed down on.
The issue was brought up and as usual it is the Democrats who refused to do anything.
Do you purposefully ignore the facts just to argue?
WS Clark,
It is not a matter of what did they do to cause this. It is a matter of what they have not done to help stop it.
“What do you propse they do? Stop driving to work so that they can conserve on gas?”
Of course!
This gets their employer into the position of working toward solutions instead of status quo too!
No workers able to reach work economically equals their exploiters are in the fight too. They won’t like having the folks who make them money not show up.
Now this means that big business will suffer. And that is a good thing.
Employers are placed into the position of…GASP! having to accomodate their workers?
Sounds like a good thing to me.
If we become more energy efficient then the demand goes down and prices go down.
And even if prices don’t go down, it’s cheaper, because you buy less.
———————
The actual cost of gasoline is how much it costs to go from point “A” to point “B”.
If we become more energy efficient, it costs less to travel the same distance.
Double the mpg of your vehicle, and you half the cost of fuel. $4 a gallon effectively becomes $2.
Trade your vehicle for one that gets half the mpg, and you double the cost of fuel. $4 a gallon effectively becomes $8.
This whole thing is about the right-wingers giving their oil buddies drilling rights to the rest of our country that they don’t already have, come on folks don’t you see? They may not drill anything for a hundred years but, oh, gee, when that day comes, guess who has the drilling rights…and the profits.
Granny — The statement that was made earlier had nothing… I repeat NOTHING… to do with OTR Truck Drivers!! Nor was it intended to!! Do try to stay on point??
“The very first energy proposal tried to open up ANWR. The Democrats blocked it.”
The Republicans held the majority in both Houses of Congress and the Presidency. They could have passed damned near anything they wanted. What and when did the Democrats block regarding removing the ban on coastal drilling and when did they block drilling in ANWR?
“It is a matter of what they have not done to help stop it.”
The major reason for the increase in oil prices is the drop in value of the dollar, which is a product of the poor American economy and nervousness about the future. That is largely due to huge deficits and the national debt, combined with sluggish growth in the American economy.
Which Republican president PROPOSED a balance Federal budget in the last thirty years?
“Do you purposefully ignore the facts just to argue?”
Name the specific bills that the Democrats blocked during 2001-2007 that would have changed the current energy situations.
You accuse others of not recognizing facts - well - come up with SOME facts.
Now this means that big business will suffer. And that is a good thing.
—-
BJ, when business suffers people loose their jobs. That is how it works. Unemployment would skyrocket…do you think that most business owners have an unlimited supply of cash?
“suffers people loose their jobs”
LOOSE their jobs?
Damn.
Peace out…I am guessing BJ believes if you own a business you also own a money tree…idiot….you can’t even fix your nic.
HEE Hee heee heeee heeeeeee!
“And I don’t care how good the potato salad and chicken, you can’t enjoy it, or even swallow it, when the company is so bad.”
Not to worry boxlicker. You wont be invited, so dont worry your pretty LITTLE brain about it.
And again, EWWWWWWWW at the thought of you thinking of me in a sexual way.
Hehehehe. And as to my gender, I told you early on. I’m twice the woman you will ever have, and three times the man you will ever be.
No fried chicken, tater salad, or bbq brisket and pork cooked by me will EVER pass over those vile lips of yours. And really, do you kiss your wife and grandkids with that mouth?
“Jobs” are bad. “Jobs” are people beholden to other people for their sustenance while they make their exploiter money.
The only exception is government employees. They work for the greater good.
People working for themselves is good.
Anti, you idiot. JR DOES own his own business and is self employed.
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 11:18 pm |
“Huh? I don’t buy barrels of oil. I buy gallons of gas.”
And what do you think the gas that you buy is made from? Are you trying to win fleettwood’s title?
“I want a barrel of oil to go for 50 dollars or less so that the gallon of gas I buy only costs me about 1.50 or maybe 2.00.”
You want it? The two ways to reduce the price are increase the supply, or reduce the demand.
The U.S. does not have the oil reserves needed to significantly reduce world oil prices. And even if we did, OPEC could easily countermand it.
But the U.S. could significantly reduce the demand. . . at a cost of only about $12 (year 2000 $’s) for each barrel.
Nathaniel, don’t you drive a pickup truck? It could probably get twice the mpg, with current technology and materials.
I guess Natie is “looking up some facts” and trying to develop a logical debate point.
Well, I have an early morning panned so I will have to check back on him in the morning.
Goodnight, ya’ll.
2001
Senate GOP Bill Proposes Arctic Refuge Drilling
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-427534.html
2002:
Senate Vote Blocks Drilling in Refuge; GOP 14 Votes Short on Alaska Oil Plan
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-351590.html
“The 54 to 46 vote left Republicans 14 votes shy of the 60 they needed to end Democratic delaying tactics and force approval of the intensely controversial proposal, which Congress has debated for years”
Thanks farmgrrl. But the point is lost on them.
I was visiting a mutual friend today and helping her out. I was not so much interested in the money as the helping out. Yeah sure my kid has to eat.
But?
I was doing something I wanted to do for someone I wanted to do it for.
I was on my own time and my own schedule.
I think that is what the deniers of global warming and the fossil fuel shills are most afraid of. That people will CHOOSE to do the correct thing as opposed to the “right” thing.
Those are just a few I found really quick.
The facts are that the Democrats have blocked drilling in ANWR somewhere around a tleast 9 times since 1995.
They have blocked it several times in the frist few years Bush and the Republicans were in control and continue to block it.
These are basic facts. I can’t believe that you actually tried to dispute this.
I guess we can safely say that BlueJay never plans on expanding his business any more than what he could handle on his own.
He wouldn’t want someone working for him….
LOL
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
It does bring up a question though.
BlueJay’s business has to provide some type of service someone is willing to pay for… or he wouldn’t make any money.
So, in a round about way, isn’t BlueJay still working for someone just not technically employed by them?
Hmmm….
“The 54 to 46 vote left Republicans 14 votes shy of the 60 they needed to end Democratic delaying tactics and force approval of the intensely controversial proposal, which Congress has debated for years”
Nathan… you state that vote comes from 2002… Please enlighten ALL of us where in 2002, the Democrats had 54 votes in the Senate?? Please show that?? NOW!!!
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“The very first energy proposal tried to open up ANWR. The Democrats blocked it.
Unfortunately it was one of the things that Bush and the Republicans backed down on.
————–
Nathaniel, you mean the Arctic Refuge proposal that’s based on multiple, long-term lies? Like fleettwood’s column by George Will, lying about it being “on a 2,000-acre plot”?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/07/drilling-would-dramatically-reduce-gas-prices/#comment-388438
Nathaniel, why do you people use LIES to push your pro-drilling agenda? Is it “Christian” to use LIES to push your pro-drilling agenda?
IF you obviously cannot show 54 Senate Votes in 2002, what that vote indicates is that there were a good number of REPUBLICANS who voted against the Bill…. Thus making it NOT the work of Democrats, but the work of dissident Republicans!! LOL Just cant fix stupid!!
“So, in a round about way, isn’t BlueJay still working for someone just not technically employed by them?”
Uh yeah, in the same way that Warren Buffett works for people but is JUST not technically employed by them.
Or like folks in a chiropractic clinic do…
Chas,
What is the point in starting a question with “please” and then ending it with a demanding “NOW!!!”
*Eye Roll*
And you probably wonder why some of us give you such a hard time.
I suggest you read the book “Humility” by Andrew Murray.
If you have it and have read it, read it again.
I know I need to sometimes.
Nathan speculates >>>>
“So, in a round about way, isn’t BlueJay still working for someone just not technically employed by them?”
Well, ummmm, not according to the IRS… I am also self-empoloyed… So, I believe I know whereof I speak on this one…
Atta boy Nathan…. you wanna spin around on that one some more?? Or does this mean you have no answer for what you posted?? LOL
So, you go after my sense of urgency, with a personal ad hominem attack… As usual…
“I guess we can safely say that BlueJay never plans on expanding his business any more than what he could handle on his own.”
I do wish I could get my teen son more interested. Outside that? No.
Would I use other people to make me money Nathan?
I’ve had ample chance. I don’t do that. I compete against those who do.
I work WITH people Nathan. I do not work for them.
I don’t think you can successfully attack that.
“I guess we can safely say that BlueJay never plans on expanding his business any more than what he could handle on his own.
He wouldn’t want someone working for him….”
I cant speak for BJ, but for the two businesses I own and operate, that’s my plan. Employees are more trouble than they are worth, so I just do my own thing, and get a little “volunteer” help from my friends and neighbors when needed.
You’d be surprised how many good people will “work for food” if they know I’m cooking!
Chas,
What exactly was the personal ad hominem attack I made?
I must have missed it.
When nearly ever Democrat votes against the bill and try to stop it and they get a few Republicans to join them, yes that is the Democrats blocking it.
The Democratic leadership led their party against it. Just because there are always a few republican defectors doesn’t then abscond them from their actions of trying to stop it.
“When nearly ever Democrat votes against the bill and try to stop it and they get a few Republicans to join them, yes that is the Democrats blocking it.”
Sorry Nathan…. That isnt the way it works… The Dems did NOT have enough votes to pass that bill… They could not have done it without considerable help from Republicans… Ergo, the Republicans, SIDING WITH the Democrats, blocked that bill…
Now, seems to me you tried to throw out a stinger, when what you did was shoot a suction cup arrow at a combed plywood wall!!
Remember in 2002, the Republicans had a fairly strong advantage in the Senate…
Here is a novel concept for you to chew on Nathan.
I LIKE helping people. I LIKE creating and building and making things better.
I don’t have to get rich doing it. I don’t even want to. I don’t like to think what that might change me into.
WE have a real “gift economy” going in my neighborhood. Guys drive in before the first freeze and ask if I’d like them to check over the vehicles and their antifreeze and batteries. They fix my fence if they see a problem, then they tell me about it later.
They ask if my mower needs repairs if they think my golf course like yard is getting shaggy. (big eye roll, I get the message. Mow your damn yard!) I can call the local guys around me ANY time I need help.
And they frequently find dozens of eggs on their doorsteps, big casseroles of food on their kitchen counters at harvest, mysterious boxes of tomatoes on their porches, and frozen home grown chickens at their doors.
No specific reasons. We just take care of each other out here on the Downer. They know who to call to feed their dogs when they are out of town, and I know who to call if I slide off in the ditch some snowy or rainy night.
you all should be so lucky to live in our neighborhood…
I once had a parish in a rural area like that KFG… That brings back ond memories!!
Nathaniel posted July 23, 2008 at 11:24 pm
“The very first energy proposal tried to open up ANWR. The Democrats blocked it.
——————–
Nathaniel,
Do you advocate drilling in the Arctic Refuge? Yes? No?
1) Tell us what happens if the TAPS shuts down for too long during mid-winter (Hint: It becomes an 800-mile long Chapstick)
2) Tell us what the U.S. Army said about the TAPS. (Hint: It’s “indefensible”)
3) Tell us what caused this TAPS shutdown, in Oct 2001, during heightened security. (Hint: A drunk, with a hunting rifle)
‘Alaska clean-up ‘could take years’ ‘
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1584553.stm
ksfarmgrrl,
Your neighborhood is the way life should be. . .
I don’t even know why I bother to try to talk to you Chas.
It is and continues to be an exercise in futility.
Good story here.
I worked aircraft. Good money. Lousy working conditions.
It was my task from time to time to be “crew chief”.
I remember the first time.
I told the guys, “Don’t burn anything down or blow anything up.” and went off to run my machine like usual.
Shortly later come around my supervisor.
“What are you doing running a machine? You are crew chief!”
So I said, “Yeah, so?”
He came back “SO you are supposed to be standing over them! You are supposed to stay on top of them!”
“You want me to piss off my friends because I’ve got a red badge that says “crew chief”? What the hell good will that do?”
“It is what a crew chief is SUPPOSED to do!”
“They are DOING what they are supposed to do. I am doing what I am supposed to do. If you want to stand over us and pick nits go ahead on. It’s not me.”
It’s the same with energy debate. Some people you just can’t get out of the box.
Nathaniel,
Why do you people use LIES to push your pro-drilling agenda? Is it “Christian” to use LIES to push your pro-drilling agenda?
Nathan, HOW can you possibly maintain that the Party in the MINORITY can control a bill in the Senate, IF THEY DONT GET LOTS OF HELP FROM THE PARTY IN THE MAJORITY??
BlueJay,
You obviously don’t have much leadership experience or at least don’t grasp the concept very well.
If you are so engaged in what you are doing, how are you supposed to monitor what others are doing?
Could you imagine a General trying to manage the battlefield while he is also trying to fix a broken tank?
Expecially when we are talking about building an airplane.
I would hope that there is someone there making sure that everyone is doing their job correctly.
Good on you and yours kfg.
America was built on that sort of cooperation.
I know. Strains of my family have been here since before the Mayflower.
Nathan — Let me try a baseball analogy…
Visiting Team is leading by 2 runs.. It is the BOTTOM of the 9th inning… The HOME team is batting… The first three batters get on base, through no effort of their own… a walk, and two errors…
The Visiting Team manager changes pitchers…
Now, it is bottom of the 9th, nobody out… Bases loaded… Home team down by 2….
The relief pitcher walks the first three hitters he faces… Home team WINS by 1 run…
BUT… not one hit… not one RBI from anybody on the Home Team… Yet they WIN…
The Democrats in 2002 had the MINORITY of votes in the Senate… The Republicans had an EASY Majority…. It doesnt matter if every Democrat in the Senate votes for Against the bill… It aint gonna PASS….
UNLESS…. a bunch of Republicans AGREE with the Democrats and vote against the Bill!!
Now, would you please tell me how in God’s Green Earth you can tell me that the Democrats BLOCKED the Bill???
The General is managing the battlefield… meanwhile, there is some degree of Sgt. running the Motor Pool — taking care of the tank…. And Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas/Northrup-Grumman/et al, is back HOME building the darned airplane, that the General is not in charge of to begin with!!
I think that solves that problem fairly easily…
Sigh….
Oh kay Nathan.
Let me give you what was happening in the airplane factory where I worked.
My bosses early on were from the floor.
That was done away with.
Ultimately, the Crew chief position was done away with. Can’t have labor being confused with management.
My last boss came from managing a hog farm.
He had never touched any of the production machines. He didn’t like getting dirty.
I was a professional at what I did. I cared about quality.
I was told and leaned on to favor quantity.
In an airplane factory, I was even told to ignore safety.
Nathan did the military teach you to do the wrong thing because it was easier and someone told you to do so?
I’ve had offers of management in industry. My dad did too.
I guess we just cared too much.
And I am tired. And I don’t have near the posts that some do today.
I put in a hard day today and I am tired. But I am proud of the day I put in. It belongs to me and helped other people.
We need more of that.
Farm Gal,
Isn’t that “gift economy” pretty standard for rural living? When I lived way out in the country it was considered immoral to pass someone who was stopped on the side of the road (it might be a week before anyone came down that road again). And our patch of sand plums was always open to anyone who wanted to pick some. Some of us had a table out by the mailbox during garden season where we put excess vegetables for the taking too. Any big project or illness attracted lots of help, some of it anonymous.
I now live in town, and I haven’t even met most of my neighbors.
Time to call it a nite —-
Good night; Good luck; God bless —
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
So mote it be!!
Yeah Jed. Unfortunately, the neighbors are fewer and farther apart than they used to be. Used to be a farmstead on every quarter. Now? About every section or two.
And not all neighborhoods get along as well as we do. I cant think of any one I call neighbor that I think is a dickhead. All good folks. And for that, I’m damn lucky.
I dont know anyone out here who thinks they’ve been taken advantage of by a “neighbor”.
And I agree jed. When I lived in the city, I didnt even know my neighbors.
And JR, while most of us are third generation immigrants, so not here as long as you and yours, I can say that my neighbor who rents my land, his granddad and my granddad were friend in the old country in Russia. All the grandfathers worked together to build the Trego Center Church back in 1905. They invested in automated farm equipment as a neighborhood. And shared it with little or no trouble. They hand built the schools their children attended. And they dug each others graves when needed.
So.. while our roots in THIS country are not that long or deep, our roots with each other and our families are longer and deeper, and stretch back halfway around the world, and across three centuries. Under bloody czars and through Bolshevic terrors they looked out for each other. As well as on the long boat trip over here. To meet the ones from the same village that came before them, scouted the land, staked the claims, and helped them get started.
So yeah. We kinda like to stick together and help each other. It’s what our grandparents EXPECTED us to continue to do!
And THAT is worth a whole lot to us!
I like to think all our granddads are fishin’ and whistlin’ in heaven.
hee hee heee…
Not that we’re clannish or inbred or anything…
“It is not necessary to enumerate the many advantages, that arise
from this custom of early marriages. They comprehend all the
society can receive from this source; from the preservation, and
increase of the human race. Every thing useful and beneficial
to man, seems to be connected with obedience to the laws of
his nature, the inclinations, the duties, and the happiness
of individuals, resolve themselves into customs and habits,
favourable, in the highest degree, to society. In no case is this
more apparent, than in the customs of nations respecting marriage.”
– Samuel Williams (The Natural and Civil History of Vermont, 1794)
“Hehehehe. And as to my gender, I told you early on. I’m twice the woman you will ever have, and three times the man you will ever be.” by kfg
Only in your own mind, only in your own twisted pathetic mind.
Funny, the price goes up and down if a small hurricane moves through the Gulf of Mexico.
Oil prices fell just because the President said he was lifting the Presidential ban on new drilling off-shore.
Oil companies aren’t drilling new wells, because Congress won’t lift the ban on new drilling. The oil companies have leases they can’t use by law. Let’s keep the facts straight.
Hee hee hee heeeeee!
Looks like boxlicker got up on the wrong side of the dog bed this morning. Must have stayed up too late Poodle Dancing at the Blue Iguana last night.
Or perhaps, someone peed in his/her bowl of kibbles this morning? No dog cookie?
Damn you must lead one lonely and miserable life.
Ok, carry on. But I’d like to put in a request.
I’d like to see the Dance of the Seven Poodle Veils, please?
Stevie Nicks is on Soundstage now.
Domestic crude oil could be flowing from drilling new wells within one year.
Senate Republicans have threatened to block nearly all other bills pending before the August recess if Democrats refuse to vote with them on expanding offshore drilling.
Actions like this could result in the U.S. Senate being run by a Republican majority again, in spite of a lot of very angry tree-huggers and caribou-kissers.
parkay,
Post your proof that the U.S. DOE lied.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arctic_national_wildlife_refuge/html/execsummary.html
“Even with nearby production infrastructure, 7 to 12 years would be needed for lease sales, permitting and environmental reviews after approval for leasing.”
————
That does not include delays caused by environmental restrictions, lawsuits, and other factors.