While President Bush and oil companies call for expanded offshore drilling to address America’s energy crisis, Democrats in Congress are pointing out that oil companies aren’t drilling in millions of acres of federal lands already open to oil exploration.
“As I write this, there are 68 million acres of publicly leased lands available for drilling that are not being drilled,” Rep. Nancy Boyda, D-Topeka, wrote in an e-mail letter. “80 percent of the oil available on the Outer Continental Shelf is already open for drilling. Today, these leases are in place; the environmental hurdles have been cleared, but no drilling is happening. The American people want to know why. So do I.”
Boyda calls it “Big Oil’s dirty little secret”: Companies don’t have the equipment necessary to do more drilling, she says, and new rigs for offshore exploration won’t be available for years.
130 Comments
Looks like the whining Cons have had their panties pulled down again and have gotten spanked.
Reguliar, HLP, outlander, Franklin and the rest of the “drill here drill now”
babies have been caught squirming in their dirty diapers again .
Unthinking, lazy folks like KansasNative see all “conservatives” as part of a big monolithic bogeyeman that all have the same position on every issue.
Moron.
Bull feathers on “environmental hurdles.” Boyda knows good and well as soon as one cog of a oil rig moves, the Sierra Club or the latest fru fru environmental group is going to slap a law suit on the operation.
Being as it is federal land, nothing will move an inch until it is heard in federal court, which could be years.
Yeah, available if you don’t mind being sued by a bunch of litigious whiners like the Sierra Club who enjoy seeing Americans pay high gas prices.
House Repubs. already blocked the Drill or Repeal of oil leases.
There’s millions of acres in Texas and New Mexico without any corn being planted on it. Tell Nancy Boyda that Big Ag is trying to drive up the price of corn by not planting corn in the Chihuahuan Desert.
Also tell her that if the oil companies do not want to drill for oil in the 65 million acres that are already leased, Then rest assured, they will not drill in mile deep ocean water for oil either!
Shouldn’t a high school diploma be required to earn a position in Congress?
So… they’d be willing to give up those leases on federal land that are going unused?
ok
Why not let them drill wherever they want to?
That means let them drill where it is most cost effective.
Why do some members of congress AND THE WICHITA EAGLE rather give our oil money to the countries that want to kill US than to the oil companies that only want to send us to the poor house? Not a great choice but again the lesser of two evils.
They are unused for a reason.
What’s complicated about this?
How much money does a famer make on farm produce that she leaves in the field unharvested?
How much money does an oil company make on oil that stays in the ground?
Zilch on both accounts.
If the oil could be harvested economically at current oil prices, it would be.
So… give up the leases. What’s so hard to understand about that? If there’s no oil, and no intent to drill, turn the leases back.
But they wont do that. Why?
Afraid someone else might pick up the lease and actually drill?
And reg, there are rigs and pump jacks going up every day out here. No lawsuits regarding the environment. The only lawsuits are about dividing up the spoils, not spoiling the water or land or air or animals…
It would be really helpful if the Eagle published a map of where the current ofshore leases are and where the proposed leases would be. Without that information, this discussion is meaningless.
Polls show Americans favor more drilling for Oil and decreased gas prices (including Democrats)
Rasmussen, June 17: 67% Favor, 18% Oppose (”67% Support Offshore Drilling, 64% Believe It Will Lower Prices”)
Reuters/Zogby, June 18: 60% Favor, 40% Oppose (”Most Americans support more oil drilling”)
Gallup Poll, June 19: 57% Favor, 41% Oppose (”Majority of Americans Support Drilling Off-Limits Areas”)
Pew Research Center, July 2: 57% Favor, 41% Oppose (”As Gas Prices Pinch, Support for Energy Exploration Rises”)
And it’s not just conservatives… If you look closely at the data from the liberal Pew Research Center poll, you’ll notice that even liberals are fed-up!
The numbers are up for Democrats by 16 points, from 30 to 46%. The numbers for Liberals are up by 23 points (more than double), from 22 to 45%. Independents up 19 points, from 31 to 50%. Women up 18 points, from 28 to 46%. Young (18-29) up 25 points, from 26 to 51% — most of any age group. College grads up 17 points, from 30 to 47%
Human Events.
Outlander
Did you vote for WORST PRESIDENT EVER?
Are you whining like the other CONs on the board?
I rest my case.
Yeah, omg the arguments are so weak here today.
They don’t grow corn in the desert? Its too ‘expensive’ yet, they can build an entire pipeline from practically the north pole? Lets let them drill in your backyard- you said whereever they want!
Are all the cons smoking crack so early in the morning?
THey are creating this price issue morons- with the help of their leader Bush. They’re never going to drop the price now. This is all about them earning as much money as they can while Bush is in office and screwing us just like Enron did.
As do I, CapnKansasNative.
They are unused for a reason.
And that would be. . . what? No equipment, like Boyda said?
The first reason I heard is that the nasty Dems wouldn’t let them use them.
That appears to not be the case.
#
outlander
Posted July 21, 2008 at 8:43 am | Permalink
As do I, CapnKansasNative.
———————-
You noticed that too eh outlander? :D
It would be really helpful if the Eagle published a map of where the current ofshore leases are and where the proposed leases would be. Without that information, this discussion is meaningless.
Instead of sneering, you might try paying attention. Boyda’s talking about the Outer Continental Shelf. Specifics here:
http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/whoismms/whatsocs.html
you need to know the deapths too.
http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/lsesale/mau_gom_pa.pdf
Here is the map
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/business/19drillship.html
snip
Demand is so high that shipbuilders, the biggest of whom are in Asia, have raised prices since last year by as much as $100 million a vessel to about half a billion dollars.
“The crunch on rigs is everywhere,” said Alberto Guimaraes, a senior executive at Petrobras, the Brazilian oil company that has discovered some of the most promising offshore oil but has been unable to get at it.
“Almost 100 percent of the oil companies are constrained in their investment program because there is no rig available,” he said.
As a result, drilling costs for some of the newest deepwater rigs in the Gulf of Mexico — the nation’s top source of domestic oil and natural gas supplies — have reached about $600,000 a day, compared with $150,000 a day in 2002.
These record prices have spurred a new wave of drill-ship construction. This boom could lead to renewed offshore oil exploration that would eventually bring more supplies to the oil market, and push down prices.
Oil companies demand the ‘low hanging fruit’, it’s their entitlement, they won the last election!
ANOTHER favorite whine of the rant radio and the cons is….
“We haven’t built a refinery in this country for 30 years!”
Well? They’re right. WE haven’t. And neither have the oil companies.
Simple reason, we, and they, don’t need or want to.
If “we” needed more refineries, we would already HAVE gasoline shortages. Now gas is expensive.
But it is still readily available.
Just like the oil companies want.
factcheck has a good article on this, would be informative to both sides.
yawn…sigh..
http://icantforthelifeofmefigureouthowacandidateschoiceoflapeljewelrymakesadifference,/
There was an article in the WE biz section a couple of weeks ago about WW Drilling, located right here in WaKeeney. They are piecing together rigs from scraps outa junkyards and pastures. It isnt just offshore rigs that are in short supply.
And why wont the wingnuts answer my question about giving up those useless oil leases on public land?
The land out here used to all be leased. Then the leases were dropped during the bust in the eighties.
Now? I get letters every day wanting to lease my land. For pennies.
I think I’ll just sit on it for a while…
Kinda like the oil companies do!
Oh yeah. And they cant FIND enough geophysicists and seismic data processors in Houston.
Most of the good ones left the biz during the bust. And the young ones dont have the same work ethics the old folks did. Or experiential knowledge.
Hell, the oil guys out here are paying $30 dollars an hour for TRUCK drivers because they are so short on help.
OH, but listen to the coal cheerleaders, who think we need more jobs out here. What we need are people and iron.
Jobs? heheheheh. Not so much…
JohnGalt writes–”they don’t drill for a reason.”
Correct, John, the reason being that when you artificially create a shortage of something–like Rockefeller did with coal back at the turn of the century–you make huge profits and work less.
The biggest lie the CONs have succeeding in ramming down our collective throats is that the profit motive works to society’s best interest . . .
Correction–Rockefeller was an oil man, not coal. Nevertheless, his monopolistic practices continue today thanks to Big Oil’s paid shills, George W. and Dick Cheney, in the White House.
Boyda isn’t the only one who pointed out they haven’t drilled on leases they already have. But you see the Re-publicans,( check your bible verse for Publicans and add the re)forget(on purpose selective memory always)to tell you that Big Oil and the Grand Oil Party had said for many years(fact)as soon as gas hits $2.00 per gallon they will drill ALL their leases!! They always have excuses the Grand Oil Party accepts;why, because many of them have oil money of course. G.DUHMYA and the Walkers families have Oil interests dating back over 100 years. Big Oil such as BP/ENRON have also lost a few legal battles for price manipulations for collusions through buying up the oil/energy meant for the markets. Democrats don’t have a large enough majority to get much done yet!!We’ll see if the majority of voters have the facts in November to vote out more Grand Oil Party and any pro oil democrats or faux independents so we can actually get somethings done!! RENEWABLES and or Solar, Wind and electric must be the future anyway so we don’t give Oil monies to the terrorists nations!!!!!!!!!!STOP BLAMING THE WICHITA EAGLE FOR PRINTING NEWS/FACTS!!!OH UNLESS YOU JUST WANT FAUX NEWS!!
outlander
Posted July 21, 2008 at 8:43 am | Permalink
As do I, CapnKansasNative.
For the record, I am far too arrogant to post under any other nic. I want all the CONs to know who is kicking their ass.
A lot of people have taken to calling Worst. President. Ever. the Worst. President. Ever.
I originally got the idea from DemocraticUnderground which has tens of thousands of posts a day . . .
The aforementioned factcheck article:
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/are_the_democrats_correct_in_stating_that.html
P.S. Pretty good article, but I would also point out that under Bush, BLM is not exactly an objective source.
. . and by the way, aside from a few stylistic tweaks (i.e. CONS in all caps), KN’s writing style is completely completely different from the Capn’s.
If that seems a silly way to decide, remember after registration how quickly I spotted Ben and Paul.
capn…it won’t do any good…the cons have a pitiful old fart (and non-Christian to boot) for a candidate and all they can do is worry about who posts here.
Poor whiney babies.
Indeed Capn,
It’s been real interesting watching the Reagan free market revolution unfold. In Iraq we have blackwater, custer battles and other private mercenary armies. These companies have little to no oversight and zero accountability.
In the financial sector we have major bailouts in the mortgage sector and investment banking. Energy markets, the oil companies long range planning boggles the mind.
You’re right rage…I’m like the Terrorist Trio (Rove, Cheney, Bush)
I don’t believe in a shred of civility or truth.
Geee…I’m just like a CON!!!!
. . .all that, just to use CON in caps? ;-)
The BLM source is a red herring; it concerns only on-shore sites; not off-shore sites. Tell you what. If you asked any person on the White House staff, I’ll bet they couldn’t tell you where the off-shore leases they are talking about are; same goes for Congress. This is just political B.S., and the fact that most Americans are now in favor of off-shore drilling is only evidence of how we are swayed by polemics, since logic isn’t an option.
Nancy Boyda is an idiot.
Randy, you are just biased and lazy.
Many of us have told you what is going on, with current oil leases.
For starters, it is recognized contract law that a lease MUST be worked or the lease holder risks forfeiture.
Next, TRANSPORT of product is a problem. There might be a lease which, in itself, contains NO oil or gas, but that land might be useful for a ROAD or a PIPELINE or for STORAGE!
There are vast quantities of natural gas that can not be economically tapped, yet, due to transportation costs.
Now, please look at the bogus “69 million acres” figure.
How many of those acres have NO oil?
How many of those acres have oil, but no pipeline or roads or infrastructure?
How many of those acres WILL be produced, sometime this year or next year, after all of the testing, permits, transport issues and lawsuits have cleared?
Randy, you need to do your research.
So does Boyda.
PMOM
Enron was a very liberal company. Enron fought coal interests. An exec, with Enron, pretty much created the “carbon credit” idea.
Enron belongs to the greens.
annie
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac belong, pretty much, to the Dems.
Take a look at the high profile Clinton types, and other Dems, that have been execs in the mortgage business.
You can not blame a business cycle on a political party.
You can not blame the mortgage mess on Republicans.
Libs
Conservatives are WINNING this argument, even though you do not realize it.
The poltical “will to drill” is there.
Now, we are only arguing about WHERE to drill.
After they’ve at least explored all their leased govt. land, then they can talk about expanding their leases.
From a previous post, on 2 other threads:
“There are “implied covenants” in ANY oil and gas lease or any mineral lease.
Even if NOT included in the lease contract, the courts have held than ANY lease holder has the right to terminated a lease for lack of production, after a period of time:
http://www.mosburgoil-gas.com/html/mosburg_primer_ogl4_11_96_2a.html
“What Are These “Implied Covenants”? The covenants that are generally implied in the modern Oil & Gas Lease — again, absent an express provision in the lease nullifying such an implied covenant or otherwise expressly covering its subject matter — are as follows:
The Implied Covenant to Protect Against Drainage (the Implied Covenant to Offset)
The Implied Covenant to Further Develop
The Implied Covenant to Market
The Implied Covenant of Prudent Operations.
Each of these covenants imposes an obligation on the Lessee to act as a reasonable prudent operator in each of these areas. This imposes a three-fold obligation: to act in good faith, to act competently, and to take into account (though not as a “fiduciary”) the legitimate interests of the lessor.
Under this standard:
The Lessee is required to offset a well which is draining the leased premises if a prudent operator would drill an offset (i.e., if it appears that the offset would likely be profitable). 3
The Lessee is required to drill additional locations and to drill to other formations if a prudent operator would take that action . 4
The Lessee must make reasonable efforts to market the production. 5
The Lessee must conduct operations in a diligent and proper manner . 6
Remedies for Breach.Damages are nearly always available for breach of the Implied Covenants, with the measure being the amount of royalties that the Lessor would have received if it were not for the improper conduct.7 However, in most states, cancellation of the lease will also be allowed as an alternative remedy.
When cancellation is being sought, the Lessor must give the Lessee notice, and an opportunity to correct. If the court orders cancellation of the lease, the order will usually be in the form of an alternative decree, under which the Lessee will be given an opportunity to correct the breach.
—–
This is true even if NOT stated in the contract.
The BLM or Federal Bureau of Land Management is in charge of virtually all mineral leases, on federal land.
BLM contracts generally contain a production clause and a forfeiture clause, in writing.
Even if they don’t — the courts have held that the oil company MUST produce, or forfeit the lease.
BLM has the same right, today, under the law, as any farmer or rancher to terminated a lease for lack of production, no further Act of Congress is necessary.”
Phantom
So, after they get “blood out of a turnip” you might give them a carrot to suck dry?
If you are winning the argument paulie?
Why so shrill?
Exactly. You’re not winning and you know it.
America is changing. Why in the paper this morning there is an article about people who have made the adaptation and have no intention of turning back.
BJ
You are a crusader against oil. I am not at all “shrill” — but ignorance does upset me.
You can not claim victory, in my opinion, until the United States quits using oil, completely, which you have stated as your goal, correct?
I state that you will not win, in your lifetime.
Moreover, I state that America’s use of carbon fuels will increase every single year, for the rest of your life.
So, you lost.
So, you will always lose.
We have to do it now, so the next generation won’t be faced with a do or die scenario. Put it off another 30 yrs. and we will have no alternative energy, and no alternatives left.
THE BIGGEST SINGLE STEP the United States can take to curb global warming and save oil is to raise the fuel economy of our cars and light trucks.
http://www.sierraclub.org/energy/biggestsinglestep/
In this section:
* Introduction
* Innovative Technology Can Help Free Us From Our Dangerous Oil Dependence
* We Can Safely Improve Our Fuel Economy
* Creating Clean Cars In America Creates Jobs At Home
* Take Action!
ONE difference, among many between you and me Paulie is I think bigger than myself.
Like most cons, your world extends no farther than the end of your nose or the bottom of your ledger.
And everyone and everything you can imagine is supposed to revolve around that.
“You are a crusader against oil. ”
No, I’m a realist. I see a society operating in a way that cannot endure.
“Moreover, I state that America’s use of carbon fuels will increase every single year, for the rest of your life.”
Ya know? I don’t think so. I think in a few years, maybe less than a decade, our national carbon footprint will grow smaller.
See paulie? That’s because many generations of my family made this country. They and those around them were good at inventing their way out of or around things. And Americans today are made of the same stuff. They just haven’t used it in a while.
Ya know? You should be ashamed of yourself for opposing that.
It is said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. I find that statement an apt description of people like you paulie. Oh you wave that flag real good.
But at heart, you want to hold the country back. You want to keep it status quo.
For you.
This country is bigger and better than small folk like you paulie. You’d best stand aside before your swept out of the way.
If legislation could FORCE invention, the kings of the Dark Ages should have been able to order their alchemists to make gold out of lead.
How did that work?
You can not mandate invention.
I’m no great fan of T Boone Pickens.
But his recent announcement? I think that is when the deniers and the defenders of the status quo really started to shake in their boots.
Call it a need born of necessity or the other way around. America is changing.
econ posted,
“You can not mandate invention”
——–
We don’t have too… available technology just needs to be applied.
BJ
Save the sermon for someone who still buys your garbage.
You are one of the most selfish people on Earth. For a mentally stable person, a bit of selfishness might have helped you in life.
Unfortunately, the fact that you are lazy and anti-social is the cause of your problems, but you are far more selfish than any businessperson I have ever met.
You are motivated by envy, not any altruism or desire for the common good.
You want to see commerce, oil, energy, heck you want to see EVERYONE who has done better than you, FAIL.
Of course, that means nearly everyone has to fail, for you to be happy.
There is nobody, anywhere, with any real knowledge of the subject that believes that we can stop using carbon based fuels.
There are reasonable libs, on this Blog, who say we can conserve, or reduce our demand. I only argue that we can reduce the increase in demand. We can keep our demand from going up so quickly. But — demand will STILL increase.
You? You think we can eliminate all carbon based fuels from our lives.
It will not happen.
No intelligent, mentally stable person believes what you believe.
Pickens?
Read the Pickens Plan.
Pickens is NOT against more drilling.
He just says we need to do more than drill.
Also, Pickens is big on natural gas. It is hard to produce natural gas without also producing oil.
““You can not mandate invention”
Well of course you can.
I cite the aerosol can and freon as examples of now dead invention replaced with NEW invention when they were ruled against in law.
Now, we are taking the shackles OFF of invention and placing them ON convention.
I don’t sympathize with ya paulie because I don’t like you.
But I know it must really suck to be a statist just now.
cosmos
I think hydrogen injection, or oxygen injection, into existing internal combustion air intakes is a neat idea.
I am aware of most of the new technology.
The problem with hydrogen is storage. So, you would need a simultaneous “hydrogen generator” for it to be practical.
Oxygen would be easier to store. Would it be worth the effort to burn gasoline with a higher O2 content in the mixture?
Methane Ice is a new source of fuel. It is carbon based.
Shale Oil is a new source. It will require new technology to remove it.
The most promising new technologies simply tweek what we are already doing. And — they still require oil.
You can’t mandate intelligence either Blujay. See Below:
http://icantforthelifeofmefigureouthowacandidateschoiceoflapeljewelrymakesadifference,/
This is a cool Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_injection
Good distractions being created to avoid the real problem. The intentional devaluing of the Dollar. Prices are increasing because of the increase in the money supply (inflation).
Look at a real money like gold and you will see that the price of gold is steady and even. I’m a goldbug, but would be willing to have some other asset backed currency.
Is gold perfect, no. The temptation to print extra money in a FIAT system is too great and eventually has lead to the crash of all FIAT currency throughout history though.
FIAT is going to ruin America. Only sound money and free markets can work in a free society. Fractional reserve banks that are insolvent should be allowed to fail. Bailing them out with inflation and tax dollars are ruining America.
You think a small business owner will get bailed out if he makes bad business decisions and goes bankrupt? You all know the answer to that question.
another cool link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous
T Boone Pickens is correct. We need to rely on our own country for energy resources. What does this mean?
People are going to have to cut back and live within their means. This is not a radical idea either. Americans for the most part are gluttonous and slothful. 2 of the 7 sins, btw.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Any politician promising you these things cannot defeat the laws of nature.
When I hear an American telling me that they are entitled to these things, I realize just how far off this country has strayed.
Look up Thomas Jefferson’s Ten Rules. Live by those rules and you will prosper. This country would too. Here:
1. Never put off tomorrow what you can do today
2. Never trouble another for what you can do yourself
3. Never spend money before you have earned it
4. Never buy what you don’t want because it is cheap
5. Pride cost more than thirst, hunger, and cold
6. We seldom repent of having eaten too little
7. Nothing is troublesome taht we do willingly
8. How much pain the evils cost us that never happened
9. Take things always by the smooth handle
10. When angry, count to ten: if very angry, count to a hundred
Well put BlueJay!
We may disagree on some things, but I can agree with you on what your saying. This country needs to learn how to take care of itself again.
We are a country full of people that would rather someone else do their work for them. The problem with all of that is, they still expect to receive something for nothing.
My latest project is the creation of a water hybrid system for my car. I am going to build one from the ground up. I will test it, and if it works, try to sell it to friends and family.
Here’s the thing that seperates most of us, if it doesn’t work, I won’t sit around in my pity. I will tweak it until i get it right. I will learn from my mistakes and improve on what i already have.
This made America great, not a government.
Get it together my fellow Americans. Always try to learn something new and exciting to you everyday. Make sure it is productive and will help you improve on your life.
I meant that the price of oil is steady and even.
This is in regards to my first post.
Sorry.
“FIAT is going to ruin America”
Fiat is going to ruin America? I didn’t think they even sold cars here anymore.
Fix It Again Tony
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs4GXH5Q3Rk&NR=1
check this out from japan
WSClark
Posted July 21, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
“FIAT is going to ruin America”
Fiat is going to ruin America? I didn’t think they even sold cars here anymore.
__________________________________________________
I’m glad that you have jokes.
Everyone is turning to Ron Paul now. He is plastered all over the news networks that shunned him during the last year.
It is hard to shun the truth that he has been preaching for so long though. People are hearing the message now.
He has predicted this mess, and while some of you laughed at him and called him crazy, we were trying to warn everyone. This is an opportunity for you guys to turn to the truth and support him and his message.
Once you realize that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans, as is being proven right now, you have a place to turn to.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com
Help us grow to 100,000 by September 2nd.
Thanks.
Gold Standard
Silver Standard
Bi-Metalist
Good grief. The Wizard of Oz was originally about these issues. The rubby slippers were originally silver.
It would be difficult to run a modern economy on the gold standard.
It is entirely possible to run a fiat system well.
It is entirely possible for the gold standard to fail.
Gold bugs have predicted 12 of the last 2 recessions.
Gold bugs can be ignored.
ruby rubby lol got to quit talking on phone while i type!
“Everyone is turning to Ron Paul now”
Really? What percentage of the general election vote is he going to get?
“This is an opportunity for you guys to turn to the truth and support him and his message.”
No, I want to vote for someone that can actually win.
“Help us grow to 100,000 by September 2nd.”
100K? Obama has fifty times that many on a bad day.
What do you suggest Franklin? Bernanke admitted that inflation is a tax on the people. Gold will at least prevent this runaway tax on you and I.
You want to run a FIAT system well? Put a computer in a room and have it increase the money supply by 3% annually. That’s it.
The temptation to print too much money is what happens with a central bank. Greed kicks in, and you lose. This is why all FIAT currencies throughout time have failed.
Gold has stood the test of time. Arguing this is absurd on the face of it.
I am more than happy to debate economics with you. You will find that I am fair, but I will bring you to task with facts when you start with nonsense.
Goldbugs predicted every recession we’ve had. Those times you were lied to about real numbers were recessions. The only way to prop up the system is to lie about the numbers. 2002 was a recession. 2008 is a recession.
I’m not here to argue about a gold standard. I am trying to inform people that this current monetary system is going to fail. They always do. The solutions need to be decided by you and I, the consumer.
Please give me your solution to the problem, and don’t be mistaken, this is a problem. Our current monetary system has devalued the dollar to 4 cents of its original value. Prices have been manipulated for a century because of this devaluation.
You talk about modern economy. This economy has been held back for a century. It will be exciting to see baby boomers have their 401K and pensions being pilfered in the next few years.
I am proud to say that I know the problem, and know how to protect what I have. I will also protect what I get in the future. Do you knwo what you are going to do?
Let me know when you need some help.
WSClark
Posted July 21, 2008 at 3:05 pm | Permalink
“Really? What percentage of the general election vote is he going to get?”
He has suspended his campaign. This battle is on going. It is not to late to help change your country for the better. You’ll also note that most people voting for Obama or McCain have no idea what is going on. You can thank the press and media for that. Our education system should be included also.
“No, I want to vote for someone that can actually win.”
Sounds like your problem. You’d rather vote for someone that can win, even if you disagree with what he stands for. This is how we got into the current mess we are in. Keep it up though. Your apathy will get you exactly what you deserve.
100K? Obama has fifty times that many on a bad day.
I just asked for your support. Obama may be able to draw those types of numbers, but it is irrelevant to what I requested from everyone. You must think that this is a democracy and majority rules. We live in a Republic. It shouldn’t matter who you vote into office, the rule of law should chain them down. The Constitution was written by men who studied the fatal flaws of history and put laws in place to prevent those flaws from happening.
Like I said, your apathy will get you exactly what you deserve. If you rely on others to give you information and don’t seek it out yourself, that’s your problem.
Please don’t take offense to what I’m telling you. Sometimes the truth hurts. I used to be just like you. In fact, I could quote the positions that Fox News laid out for me ver batum. Then, I checked out Ron Paul and have been on a quest for knowledge ever since.
Join me in that quest and we’ll make America the once proud nation it used to be.
“You’ll also note that most people voting for Obama or McCain have no idea what is going on.”
BS - I know exactly what is going one - the cons want to keep the White House so they can continue to move us backwards in time.
“You’d rather vote for someone that can win, even if you disagree with what he stands for.”
Other than gay marriage, which I support, what exactly do I disagree with Obama?
“Your apathy will get you exactly what you deserve.”
Apathy? I am a political junkie - I follow politics on a daily basis.
“In fact, I could quote the positions that Fox News laid out for me ver batum”
I am not allowed to watch Faux News, since I tend to puke on the floor when I see Brit Hume on the screen.
By the way, it is spelled verbatim………….
Ron Paul will not win this election. I understand that. Does that mean you can’t begin to support the message and do the things neccesary to fix the problem?
You can elect officials that convey the message. You can hold those in power accountable and let them know that if they don’t change, you will fight to get them out of power.
Use the constitution as your guide. Look, I love what I do for a living, but what good does it do me if I have no money to show for it in the end. This is something that must happen for all of us to survive.
Learn about the difference between price and value. Price can, and is manipulated. Devaluing the currency will increase prices. All the while, the value of the good is still relatively the same.
You must have a strong dollar. It is essential. Fractional reserve banking kills the dollar. It creates money from nothing. It weakens your dollar and brings prices up.
Price and value are key. If you get that simple concept, it will lead you into the message of freedom.
Do Cons equal NeoCons?
There is a huge difference.
NeoCons came from the democratic party and infested it with a similar platform to the democrats. They also feel a moral authority to spread democracy and police the world.
There hasn’t been a true conservative since Goldwater and Taft.
Gay marriage? The federal government has no power to implement any law not stated in the constitution? Why are you worried about an individual right given to the states to decide?
If you follow politics, how can you even consider voting for the two front runners? Why don’t you follow the constitution? Politician stands for someone who seeks power to gain control. Not really what we need in this country. We need representatives who uphold the constitution. People need a real education on this country and what exactly it is supposed to be doing. You agree?
I did not know how to spell verbatim. Thank you.
Annie–
That video rocked! I want one of those.
Here’s the commentary–
A Japanese vehicle manufacturer unveiled the prototype of a new electric motorbike carrying a hybrid magnetic motor, which can run almost noiselessly up to 180 kilometres (112 miles) on one charge. Tokyo-based Axle Corporation says that the battery of the next-generation electric vehicle motorbike can be charged at home, in the same way as a cellular phone. It takes a little over 6 hours to fully charge the battery, and the vehicle’s maximum speed is capable of reaching 150 kilometres per hour (93 miles per hour).
The company says the futuristic motorbike enjoys high energy efficiency thanks to a state-of-the-art magnetic motor which is a hybrid between a electromagnet and a permanent magnet. The new motor, called SUMO, short for “super motor,” is housed inside the bike’s rear wheel. The manufacture says the new motor is seven-times more cost efficient than gas-powered scooters.
There is no difference between Democrat and Republican. Please show me one policy difference? They both like our current foreign policy, they both like the monetary policy, they both like social programs. You are being sold a boatload of bad goods. The new deal will pale in comparison to what they do to us after the fix their own mess.
Wow, Objectivist.
You’ve managed to do what no one else on the WEBlog has done–be considered an idiot by both the right and the left.
The gold standard.
Dude, William Jennings Bryan has been dead for 100 years, and he was on the other side if I remember correctly . . .
Wow, Objectivist.
You’ve managed to do what no one else on the WEBlog has done–be considered an idiot by both the right and the left.
____________________________________________________
No such thing as right and left. It is big government or small government. There is no voice for small government right now, but we will have our day again.
The ineptness of big government is starting to show itself. It’s only a matter of time before we the people get our power back.
I like you Capn, but you know better than to try and tell me that there is a left and right. There is no difference between the two parties. Until you show me a difference in the three policies I talked about earlier, the ball will continue to be in your court.
Join the campaign for liberty. Help take your country back and live as God intended you to. At least check it out, Conservatism has been asleep for a long time. Help wake it up again.
Something Is Out Of Whack – Assuming proven oil reserves of 264 billion barrels, the value of Saudi Arabia’s oil “in the ground” as of June 30, 2008, (valued at $140 a barrel) was $37 trillion, more than 2½ times the value of the total U.S. stock market ($14.1 trillion) as of the end of last month (Source: BP Global, Wilshire).
CapnAmerica
Posted July 21, 2008 at 4:07 pm | Permalink
The gold standard.
Dude, William Jennings Bryan has been dead for 100 years, and he was on the other side if I remember correctly . . .
_________________________________________________
I’m just throwing something out there. You know that a Gold Standard is better than what we currently have. Give me something better than what I suggest. I am all for ideas. The good thing is that you agree that what we currently have will not and never will work.
Objectivist, there isn’t enough gold in the treasury to go back to the gold standard. Second, if you go off the Federal Reserve then you return to the Boom/Bust economy that was had before it was instituted. These days any nationwide financial problems are mild recessions, not like the massive depressions we had before.
Then again, the way Greenspan (an Objectivist no less) screwed up the economy we can face a depression again.
“Then again, the way Greenspan (an Objectivist no less) screwed up the economy we can face a depression again.”
Gramm was right.
“Gramm was right.”
Phil Gramm, the guy who was responsible for a successful bank practically failing? Or did you mean some other Gramm?
Maggotpunk
Posted July 21, 2008 at 4:20 pm | Permalink
Objectivist, there isn’t enough gold in the treasury to go back to the gold standard. Second, if you go off the Federal Reserve then you return to the Boom/Bust economy that was had before it was instituted. These days any nationwide financial problems are mild recessions, not like the massive depressions we had before.
Then again, the way Greenspan (an Objectivist no less) screwed up the economy we can face a depression again.
_________________________________________________
Then the value of gold and silver will be greater since there is less of it. First problem solved.
These booms and busts you speak of, all bank driven. I could give a ratsass if a bank had a run on it and caused a bank panic. Maybe they shouldn’t loan out more than they have. Have you heard of the nobel prize that Hayek won for proving that the federal reserve was the cause of the booms and busts? If you don’t please read up on it. Banks need to slowly be pushed out of the financial system and be made to act as a private corporation. If they fail, then so be it. Poor business practices tend to lead to failed businesses. You answered your own point with the statement about Greenspan. The ability to create money is often to great a burden to place on a human. They always are tempted to print more. That is what causes the upswing in the cycle. The only depression this country had was caused by the Fed. They recessions you speak of before the fed were self corrected. The economy grew more during the 1800’s than any economy in any time period ever. Free markets work. This perversion we have now is driving us into facism. We are bailing out business that made pisspoor choices. I know this upsets you, but you just haven’t had enough time to get your head around it. Keep studying, you will real soon.
“Then the value of gold and silver will be greater since there is less of it. First problem solved.”
Not really, you just made everything more expensive. Why not just fix our currency to tulips? That worked out pretty well for a while didn’t it?
Gramm has ran the USB bank into the ground. There is no where to go but down if you practice fractional reserve banking though.
The value of the dollar is only 4 cents when compared to the dollar we had in 1913. 1913 is when the federal reserve started. Look at how prices have risen in the last century.
Wages have not been able to keep up with this increase in prices. You must have a sound currency to have freedom and liberty. Anybody who advocates the erosion of the dollar is either ignorant of the facts, of is rich enough to not have to worry about inflation.
The devaluation of the dollar is what is wrong. Both McCain and Obama are going to continue this erosion. Voting for either of them is going to hit you real hard in the pocketbook.
I agree with some (maybe even much!) of what Ron Paul says. I do wish he and his supporters were able to say anything calmly and objectively. Even here when it’s words on a screen I hear the high pitched shrillness. I use that wonderful scroll feature to get quickly past the post.
Maggotpunk
Posted July 21, 2008 at 4:43 pm | Permalink
“Then the value of gold and silver will be greater since there is less of it. First problem solved.”
Not really, you just made everything more expensive. Why not just fix our currency to tulips? That worked out pretty well for a while didn’t it?
__________________________________________________
What did I tell you earlier? There is a difference between value and price. Price will stay stable if value is maintained. Prices will only rise if the value decreases. If value increases, prices will drop.
Rising prices due to supply and demand of goods are a different matter altogether. If a good is in high demand, expect and incresae in price, as demand drops for the good, expect price to drop. Supply and demand of the goods are the only thing that should influence the price of a good.
A devaluation of the currency is an immoral way to increase prices. It is a hidden tax that we pay.
lindainks55
Posted July 21, 2008 at 4:47 pm | Permalink
I agree with some (maybe even much!) of what Ron Paul says. I do wish he and his supporters were able to say anything calmly and objectively. Even here when it’s words on a screen I hear the high pitched shrillness. I use that wonderful scroll feature to get quickly past the post.
__________________________________________________
I apologize if I came across too strong. I’ll work on that.
“Anybody who advocates the erosion of the dollar is either ignorant of the facts, of is rich enough to not have to worry about inflation.”
That would be Greenspan who favored huge deficits, trade imbalance, increased unemployment and a weak dollar. He said that the goal was to create employment insecurity in order to keep labor costs low. Greenspan, one of those Objectivists, is probably rich enough not to care. Needless to say, Libertarian economic policy has historically been a failure and continues to to this day.
Anyone who remains a Libertarian is either ignorant about history and economics or is just too rich to care. No wonder Greenspan invested so much money in Euros before leaving his position.
“What did I tell you earlier? There is a difference between value and price. Price will stay stable if value is maintained. Prices will only rise if the value decreases. If value increases, prices will drop.”
So how can you triple the value of gold and believe that the cost of electronics, which this economy is highly reliant upon, will remain the same? The best thing for the government to do in your system is to confiscate all gold and silver in order to control inflation which will skyrocket as there is an overabundance of printed currency and a lack of supply of gold.
“Anybody who advocates the erosion of the dollar is either ignorant of the facts, of is rich enough to not have to worry about inflation.”
That would be Greenspan who favored huge deficits, trade imbalance, increased unemployment and a weak dollar. He said that the goal was to create employment insecurity in order to keep labor costs low. Greenspan, one of those Objectivists, is probably rich enough not to care. Needless to say, Libertarian economic policy has historically been a failure and continues to to this day.
Anyone who remains a Libertarian is either ignorant about history and economics or is just too rich to care. No wonder Greenspan invested so much money in Euros before leaving his position.
________________________________________________
We have not had a free market in 100 years. Our economy is centrally planned. What did John Maynard Keynes say about his economics? They are great for the short run, but very bad in the long run. His answer to this? “We are all dead in the long run anyway”. Wow….just….wow
Surely you don’t link the fact that Greenspan was an objectivist to his policies? A central bank is against all free markets stand for. Greenspan could not even try to bring lassiez faire to such a perversion of Austrian economics.
Greenspan’s policies were not free market policies. Free market policies would not involve a central bank at all.
Free market is merely a myth. The fact you believe in one shows you aren’t rational. Tell the truth, you just want to create a new aristocracy by generating a huge wealth gap. Since you are a true believer in your religion there is no educating you on the facts. Enjoy your Rand cult.
The cons on this blog spout, “drill here, drill now.” But when the truth comes out, and the oil companies, as short sighted a group as have ever inhabited the earth, (or gee, is it greed, ya think?), shout from the rooftops, “It’s the environmentalists fault, wa wa”, it’s suddenly NOT the cons, but the libs who are cheating the American public.
Have I got that right? Or is it the fact the oil companies have so much money, that more is the catch phrase. Don’t build refineries, or drill for oil, it might bring the price of oil down, it will actually cost money, and there go our profits.
Gee, no drilling equipment, no new refineries? Hardly the environmentalists fault, now is it. Maybe the fact it will take ten years to bring profits to the oil companies has a bit to do with it. Ten years from now, most of the CEO’s of the oil companies will be dead, so why should they care? Business at its finest, huh?
Maggotpunk
Posted July 21, 2008 at 4:56 pm | Permalink
“What did I tell you earlier? There is a difference between value and price. Price will stay stable if value is maintained. Prices will only rise if the value decreases. If value increases, prices will drop.”
So how can you triple the value of gold and believe that the cost of electronics, which this economy is highly reliant upon, will remain the same? The best thing for the government to do in your system is to confiscate all gold and silver in order to control inflation which will skyrocket as there is an overabundance of printed currency and a lack of supply of gold.
_________________________________________________
That’s my point. Things are severly overpriced today. The price has to drop. That is what is trying to happen right now. Prices were inflated, and not instead of letting them correct, the fed continues to devalue the currency and leave interest rates artificially low.
Look, there would be a short period of a lot of pain to this economy if what I am proposing happened. There would have to be. 100 years of bad monetary policy have to correct itself.
The upside is, that in the long run, we would prosper and be great again. The current system can only fix the short run. The long run be damned, and it will be. That long run Keynes avoided is here now. We are going to pay dearly for our mistakes.
Take the bad now, or take the bad for the rest of your life. Learn how to profit from this knowledge and try to do the best you can.
If you know the currency can go nowhere, but down. Find a way to prtect what you already have. Then learn a way to protect what you are going to get. Own real things with real value. This is how you are going to become rich intodays world.
Paper money is trash. Get rid of it. Buy things with real intrinsic value.
Inflation is immoral. It is a hidden tax on the money we already have. If you want a successful FIAT currency, put a computer in a room with a lock on the door. Let it increase the money supply by 3% annually. That is the only way to keep confidence in paper money up.
#
JMWalker
Posted July 21, 2008 at 5:05 pm | Permalink
The cons on this blog spout, “drill here, drill now.” But when the truth comes out, and the oil companies, as short sighted a group as have ever inhabited the earth, (or gee, is it greed, ya think?), shout from the rooftops, “It’s the environmentalists fault, wa wa”, it’s suddenly NOT the cons, but the libs who are cheating the American public.
Have I got that right? Or is it the fact the oil companies have so much money, that more is the catch phrase. Don’t build refineries, or drill for oil, it might bring the price of oil down, it will actually cost money, and there go our profits.
Gee, no drilling equipment, no new refineries? Hardly the environmentalists fault, now is it. Maybe the fact it will take ten years to bring profits to the oil companies has a bit to do with it. Ten years from now, most of the CEO’s of the oil companies will be dead, so why should they care? Business at its finest, huh?
—————————-
Short memory or just been eating too many books?
I posted several times about Environmental groups taking refineries to court and holding up construction. There was one in Illinois, one in Ohio and one in Indiana in the past year.
Deny it if you want, it’s the court records and well known, except for those with damaged memories.
Maggotpunk
Posted July 21, 2008 at 5:02 pm | Permalink
Free market is merely a myth. The fact you believe in one shows you aren’t rational. Tell the truth, you just want to create a new aristocracy by generating a huge wealth gap. Since you are a true believer in your religion there is no educating you on the facts. Enjoy your Rand cult.
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People that work hard and save their money deserve to be wealthy. They deserve everyting that befalls them if they are responsible with their money.
I have given you facts maggot. Learn about Price and Value. These are not free market theories. They are facts of economics.
I live to study finance, history, and economics. I have thrust myself vigorously into the intellectual battle. Society is headed for a bad place. It is all of our responsibilities to do the same.
Good luck to you Maggot. At least take my advice on paper money. Own real things with value. You will see just how wealthy you become in the long run.
Take it easy.
Lawsuit filed challenging BP oil refinery plan
Associated Press - July 9, 2008 3:04 PM ET
SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) - An environmental group has filed a federal lawsuit challenging a state agency’s air permit allowing BP to expand its refinery along Lake Michigan.
The lawsuit filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Hammond by the Natural Resources Defense Council contends the $3.8 billion project needs a more stringent permit because of a significant increase in pollution the expansion will create. The lawsuit contends the project at the Whiting refinery will create more pollution than the federal Clean Air Act allows.
The lawsuit asks a judge to stop the expansion until BP meets the Clean Air Act requirements and assess a civil penalty against BP of up to $32,500 a day for each violation.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency last month approved the air permit issued to BP by the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. BP began work on the expansion on May 1, the same day it got final state approval.
The Environmentalist wackos even do it in Canada:
Environment minister faces lawsuit over new Irving refinery
Lax environmental scrutiny for project that will spew three million tonnes of greenhouse gases every year
Fredericton (16 Jan. 08) – Environment Minister John Baird is facing a lawsuit for his lax treatment of an Irving Oil plan to construct a massive new oil refinery in Saint John, N.B.
Environmental groups have filed the lawsuit to ensure that the multi-billion dollar refinery – expected to spew three million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions annually – faces the full scrutiny of an environmental assessment by the federal government.
Launched by Ecojustice (formerly Sierra Legal Defence Fund) on behalf of the Fundy Baykeeper program run by the Conservation Council of New Brunswick (CCNB) and by
Friends of the Earth Canada, the lawsuit challenges the federal government’s decision to dramatically restrict the assessment of the refinery’s impact to the facility’s wharf structure – ignoring local and trans-boundary air pollution and global warming impacts of the project.
Getting off the subject of the religion of Objectivism and their mythical beliefs let’s focus back on oil. Here is Matt Simmons, Chairman of the oil investment bank Simmons and Company International, talking about the disaster to the American economy is we continue to stay addicted to oil.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/matt-simmons-peak-oil.php
I suppose he can be dismissed about not knowing anything about the energy economy since he just runs a huge company about the subject. What he is essentially saying is that Gore is right and there is no way we can drill our way out of the problem. What we need is a massive shift of our economy on the scale of what was done in the war economy in America during the 30s. The change to renewable energy which creates the foundation for a system that relies on electric vehicles can solve the problem. What is needed is huge government investment in a green economy revolution so the problem can be averted before it arises.
President Carter saw this problem back in the 70s and started a plan to do something about it. However the believers in the myth of a “free market” sat on their hands doing nothing. Libertarian economics are not proactive they are reactive which will result in huge economic meltdown as Simmons predicts.
Given the current technology achieving this goal is quite possible. Much like Eisenhower’s investment in the highway system, and FDR’s investment in the Tennessee Valley Authority, such massive projects have proven to be a boon to the economy which eventually paid for themselves.
The people have the will to solve the problem but the only failure is leadership. Currently we have goons in office that would prefer to spend a trillion dollars on a failed war in Iraq rather than investing in America.
Directly from the Sierra Club Website. They are proud they are keeping refineries from expanding and making gas unavailable and expensive.
Sierra Club Lawsuits
Illinois EPA Ordered to Revaluate Permit for Refinery Expansion
Case Updates:
June 2, 2008
Burning and extracting fuel from tar sands not only produces much higher levels of greenhouse gases and other air pollutants than traditional petroleum fuel, it also causes the destruction of some of Canada’s most ancient forests and vital boreal ecosystems. Located in geologic deposits spread out across Alberta, Canada, the inefficient process of removing fuel from tar sands wastes exorbitant amounts of energy and water. According to a report released by Environmental Defence of Canada, tar sands mining uses twice the amount of water that the entire city of Calagary uses in one year. The report goes on to point out that “at least 90% of the fresh water used in the oil sands ends up in tailing ponds so toxic that propane cannons are used to keep ducks from landing.”
The Sierra Club, along with the Environmental Integrity Project (EIP) and the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), won an important victory in the battle against this destructive, wasteful process. On June 2, 2008 the Environmental Protect Agency Environmental Appeals Board (EAB) ordered Illinois regulators to conduct a new review of ConocoPhillip’s plans to expand their Illinois refinery so that it could process tar sands. The Club and other groups challenged the state permit for the proposed expansion, stating how the facility’s use of this dirty fuel would increase emissions of acid rain-causing sulfur oxides (SOx), hazardous volatile organic compounds, and carbon monoxide (CO). This case is part of a broader campaign by environmental groups to promote clean energy solutions and move beyond this dangerous perpetuation of reliance on carbon-intensive fuel; as stated by EIP Executive Director Eric Shaeffer, extracting fuel from tar sands “is a very intensely wasteful way to feed an oil habit.”
Oil shale has the about the same btu’s as a potato.
It’s not economically viable, it has never been economically viable, and it never will be . . . or I should say, it will be viable when refining potatoes for fuel is viable.
‘Explore Alberta’s Oil Sands Tourism Website‘
http://www.desmogblog.com/explore-albertas-oil-sands-tourism-website
“An exciting new Alberta Tourism site has been launched to promote a great idea - oil sands vacations!
http://travelingalberta.com/
Why am I so excited about a new Alberta Tourism site? Well take a quick trip over and see what all the hype is about.
Book your oil sands vacation today!”
Who’s fault is it we have higher gas prices?
It IS Obama’s fault:
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=135403
Oil Shale technology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_oil
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted July 21, 2008 at 5:28 pm
“Lax environmental scrutiny for project that will spew three million tonnes of greenhouse gases every year”
———
Folks, you don’t need to worry about greenhouse gases like CO2. . .
Just be a complete idiot, and believe the dumb, ridiculous claims about CO2 made by the biologist E. G. Beck.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/beck-to-the-future
‘Amateur night…..’
http://rabett.blogspot.com/2006/10/amateur-night.html
‘More Nonsense about CO2′
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/10/more_nonsense_about_co2.php
Reguliar = blah blah blah
His man McC*nt the woman hating non-Christian is failing badly so Reguliar spouts crap against environmentalists.
Pathetic little non married with no kids weasel.
And yes…I approve this ad hominem attack on WORST BLOGGER EVER
…Reguliar whose sister is TASTEEE!.
We WILL use carbon.
Carbon will be our primary energy source for the rest of our lives.
Most of the “new technology” that we will develop, in the future, will be oil shale technology, methane ice technology, and other methods of extracting carbon based fuels.
We will also have many new technologies, as far as hydrogen injection or oxygen injection into existing gasoline engines.
It amazes me that liberals dream of making something (a new energy source) out of nothing, yet they reject any idea that we can make energy out of SOMETHING: Oil Shale!
If it wasn’t for environmentalists, this country would be swimming in the refuse of oil wells, coal mines, gold mines, silver mines, timber companies, chemical factories, manufacturing . . . probably missed a bunch, but my memory remembers not seeing the Santa Monica mountains from less than 15 miles away because of pollution.
I find no reason for the oil companies being let off the environmental leash just because we’re short on oil.
I suspect it’s you who have a short memory when it comes to the environmental damage these companies have done in the past. I have no desire to return there. Being an old fart, I would like to leave the next generation a cleaner planet. You, on the other hand, apparently could care less. I guess that pretty much spells out the difference between libs and cons, doesn’t it.
“It amazes me that liberals dream of making something (a new energy source) out of nothing, yet they reject any idea that we can make energy out of SOMETHING: Oil Shale!”
I wasn’t aware liberals are staking the future on a perpetual motion machine. Then again, you really never make much sense.
econ posted July 21, 2008 at 6:13 pm
“It amazes me that liberals dream of making something (a new energy source) out of nothing,…
—————–
It does not amaze me that a fossil-fuel shill like econ would call the huge amounts of energy in higher energy efficiency, solar, and wind, “nothing”.
No reasonable person believes that solar and wind will be able to provide anywhere near half of our total energy needs, at any time in the future.
Libs on this Blog claim that wind could provide, maybe, 25% of ELECTRICAL needs. That does not address our need for oil, at all.
So, even if wind and solar, combined, provided 25% of our total need. (They can’t) — Where will the other 75% come from?
You are dreaming.
You have nothing.
Yet you shoot down oil shale and methane ice.
Lets hope Obama will DRILL HERE DRILL NOW!
(Hell, he flip flops on everything else!!)
“No reasonable person believes that solar and wind will be able to provide anywhere near half of our total energy needs, at any time in the future.”
Let’s see. Every building has a roof which provides a source for solar panels to be put in place. The SW United States can provide all the nation’s energy needs in a 90 square mile area. The wind corridor in the Midwest can provide over 20% of America’s needs. If I look at that math it appears that solar and wind can easily provide a surplus of electricity.
Funny thing is Germany doesn’t seem to have a problem with huge solar projects. Despite having the same amount of sun exposure as Anchorage, Alaska they have installed hundreds of thousands of panels. Germany is also the largest consumer of wind power in the world. But, you know, we’ll just follow the rest of the world because America is no longer the leader in anything except obesity and credit debt.
“If the oil could be harvested economically at current oil prices, it would be.”
ok
so some of you really bright thinkers can find a reason to make anything seem ok… if you’re an idiot that is.
with oil at record highs can you think of when it will be profitable to drill ??
econ posted July 21, 2008 at 6:54 pm
“You have nothing.”
———
econ, would you call producing 8 BILLION barrels of oil over a 30-year period “nothing“?
That’s about what increasing our U.S. light vehicle fleet mileage by only 1 mpg would “produce” over the same time period.
And that does not include the energy savings from not having to drill, lift, transport, refine, and distribute that oil.
And it would reduce demand on existing refineries.
We could increase mpg much more than that, with existing materials and technology.
There’s also “production” from improving heavy vehicle mpg, reducing home heating oil usage, etc.
cosmos
You are talking about measures that might slow the increase in future demand.
You are not talking about much of anything as far as MEETING future demand.
“But, you know, we’ll just follow the rest of the world because America is no longer the leader in anything except obesity and credit debt.”- MaggotPunk
————-
I was just thinking that maybe we would be world leaders in number of abortions. But compared to Russia, we are strictly minor leaguers. They kill their offspring in the womb at about 5 times the rate we do. It’s tough to beat those godless ex-communists when it comes to killing.
Just brainstorming on a boring evening, but you know, I would gladly contribute to a ticket for Dr. Tiller to take his, ahem… “talent” to a society that better understands the need to terminate children in the womb.
And I wonder if he keeps a running total. You know, like McDonalds used to? “Over 25,000 killed”. Or if say, the 25,000th customer comes in they give it to them free. Or discounts for repeat customers. Coupons? Well, enough of that.
Oh, in case anyone is interested, here are the leading countries in the ongoing holocaust.
Health Statistics > Abortions (per capita) (most recent) by country
Totals Per capita
Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Russia: 19.2885 per 1,000 people
#2 Bulgaria: 13.0232 per 1,000 people
#3 Hungary: 7.69032 per 1,000 people
#4 Cuba: 7.39958 per 1,000 people
#5 Sweden: 4.16452 per 1,000 people
#6 United States: 4.0945 per 1,000 people
#7 Norway: 2.9767 per 1,000 people
#8 New Zealand: 2.76902 per 1,000 people
#9 Iceland: 2.71958 per 1,000 people
#10 Japan: 2.69214 per 1,000 people
#11 France: 2.65644 per 1,000 people
#12 Israel: 2.47077 per 1,000 people
#13 Italy: 2.30861 per 1,000 people
#14 Canada: 2.15056 per 1,000 people
#15 Finland: 1.8924 per 1,000 people
#16 Germany: 1.18811 per 1,000 people
#17 India: 0.552036 per 1,000 people
#18 Greece: 0.113986 per 1,000 people
#19 Poland: 0.0144976 per 1,000 people
German coal production and German coal use is INCREASING even after all of the “alternatives” are taken into account:
“Underneath the marshy ground here is a huge deposit of cheap brown coal — manna for a nearby power plant that is among the biggest emitters of global warming gases in Europe. The presence of the fuel may mean that this village and its 680 residents have to go, moved out by the unceasing demand for dirty fossil fuels.
In recent years, Germany has made a large push into clean, renewable energy, and it is among the world’s leading suppliers of wind and solar power. But like many European countries and the United States, it remains hooked on coal, its biggest source of energy.
That reliance is projected to grow in coming years. Utilities are seeking to build two dozen power plants to be fueled by lignite, the crumbly brown coal that lies just beneath the surface in much of eastern Germany and that has been strip mined for generations.”
http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=92681
Moving the post above to the open thread. Sorry, I didn’t want to hijack the the thread but was sort of responding to Maggie’s post there.
econ posted July 21, 2008 at 8:14 pm
“cosmos
You are talking about measures that might slow the increase in future demand.
You are not talking about much of anything as far as MEETING future demand.”
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No, econ. . . I’ve explained how higher energy efficiency is guaranteed to “produce” much more than the small, risky, high-cost oil reserves that we have in the U.S..
And at a lower cost, with less pollution, less adverse health effects, etc..
Not to even mention the carbon taxes that will raise costs in the future.
econ, why are you so confused and misinformed about future energy issues?
“You are not talking about much of anything as far as MEETING future demand.”
Future demand is going to be less than it is today. We will more wisely use what we have and so will need less.
Damn it’s something else when I have to take the conservatives to school on conservatism.
Maybe the aren’t drilling because t