“Here is the difference between McCain and Obama — and Obama had better pay attention,” columnist Richard Cohen wrote. “McCain is a known commodity. It’s not just that he’s been around a long time and staked out positions antithetical to those of his Republican base. It’s also — and more important — that we know his bottom line. As his North Vietnamese captors found out, there is only so far he will go, and then his pride or his sense of honor takes over. This — not just his candor and nonstop verbosity on the Straight Talk Express — is what commends him to so many journalists.
“Obama might have a similar bottom line, core principles for which, in some sense, he is willing to die. If so, we don’t know what they are. Nothing so far in his life approaches McCain’s decision to refuse repatriation as a POW so as to deny his jailers a propaganda coup. In fact, there is scant evidence the Illinois senator takes positions that challenge his base or otherwise threaten him politically.”
104 Comments
Now there’s a steaming pile of bullshit.
From Crooks & Liars:
# McCain was against the repeal of Roe v. Wade before he was for it.
# McCain was against torture before he was for it. Really for it.
# McCain was against crazy right-wing preachers like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson before he was for them.
# McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy before he was for them.
# McCain was against shady Bush “Pioneer” Texas billionaire swift-boat financiers before he was for them.
# McCain was for the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law before he was against it and began breaking it.
# McCain was against Grover Norquist, whom he called “corrupt, a shill for dictators“ before he was for him.
# McCain was against BJU because of its “hateful,” “racist and cruel” policies before he was for it.
# McCain was against ethanol before he was for ethanol and then he was against it again.
# McCain was against a Martin Luther King holiday before he was for it.
And there’s more:
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15924.html
Was McCain even tortured?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7459946.stm
and the “demo swiftboaters” start their garbage….after whining about the exact same tactics 4 years ago, now they are engaging in the same smear/lying type of tactics.
“and the “demo swiftboaters” start their garbage….after whining about the exact same tactics 4 years ago, now they are engaging in the same smear/lying type of tactics”
So, James admits the swiftboaters were liars. ‘Progress’ is all I can say. Hey, Hank, is James correct, the swiftboaters are liars? Or, should you advise him to stay on message?
My filter for presidential candidates is comparison to the long preparation of Dwight D. Eisenhower for his election as 34th President of the United States.
Being the son of a President certainly wasn’t adequate for George Bush Jr. Being wife of an ex-President hasn’t convinced voters that Hillary Clinton has adequate preparation. And being a smooth exhorter without meaningful military, business or international experience isn’t adequate for Barack Obama.
John McCain is closer to those qualifications but I believe his selections and appointments for Vice President and for his top cabinet members will be crucial.
This story slays me:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/29/AR2008062901871_pf.html
Sorry, that was not James, I should have known better. That was Raptor. Those “R” nics throw me, ya know. Good point, Raptor.
The Walton and Johnson Radio Show, currently airing on KFH 1240 AM, in Wichita, is spewing out LIES about Obama not being a US Citizen, even though he was born in 1961 in Honolulu, HI. Hawaii became a State in 1959… This stupid RUMOR has been spreading on certain Radio programs, and in Internet musings for much of the past week… This kind of CRAP needs to be stopped somehow!!
McCain’s “maverick” positions have been altered:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200806270009
Chas,
Don’t know, those meme’s spread like viruses. Has any politician figured out how to correct those distortions once they get spread? See the WashPost story I linked above.
As noted in the WashPost story, people continue to believe the distortions though a porcess of “Well, my friend believes that Obama won’t wear the flag pin, and that he’s a Muslim. My friend is not stupid, therefore it must be true.”
And, if Obama were to start wearing a world record sized Flag Pin, all the doubters would say “See, he is just trying to cover up that he hates America - he’s a politician, he’s a liar.”
Such tactics are incredibly effective, and difficult to counter.
I wonder if the Social Psychology field has anything to offer on countering rumors. Rove has long been a student of social psychology.
Read your WaPo article on lying political fabrications…. I think the best hope of stopping that crap is to somehow get in touch with CNN, MSNBC, et al, and keep after them until they put out some news stories….
Shoot, Walton and Johnson make Imus look like Sunday School with the crap they put out…
Might be worth checking with WSU Soc. Psych. Dept. and see what they can tell us…
McCain was for marital fidelity before he was against it before he was for it again.
OR, we could always make the accusation that McCain has been a thespian at several points in time… or that he has been known to publicly matriculate… or something of that sort!! LOL
Ben, after all of that fidelity stuff, did McCain then start a Fidelity Bank?? Or was that something about a Savings and Loan??
Raptor - karma is a bitch ain’t it?
Chas - maybe his buddy Keating will be his partner - again!
One never knows… but might make for a good “rumor”, eh?? LOL
Hey, with a name like McCain, maybe he is a “closet” member of the IRA… and has been a secret operative??
Debates between the candidates are needed.
Think we’ll get more than one?
Where is YOUR head?
http://bp1.blogger.com/_8IcO1ehweFs/SGgkUJkrnQI/AAAAAAAACpI/0rM_AfeAdh8/s1600-h/vote.jpg
Welcome to John McCain campaign headquarters - courtesy of the Wichita eagle.
“McCain is a known commodity. It’s not just that he’s been around a long time and staked out positions antithetical to those of his Republican base.”
Berber got it right.
When it didn’t matter many years ago, McCain occasionally bucked his party.
Since 2001, he’s followed Worst. President. Ever. like the good little water carrier he is.
The “liberal press” can’t stop putting the word “maverick” next to this Republic toady.
I still don’t know why McCain has changed so much. I liked the old John McCain. The one who:
1. chastised evangelicals if they became intolerant.
2. Was against a tax break for the wealthy.
3. Spoke out against torture.
4. Had more important things to worry about than abortion and gay marriage.
That wing of the republican party still thinks that they represent the majority of americans.
Who will McCain choose as a running mate? Will he be independent? Or will he bow to the right-wing?
McCain on GI Bill–”I’m happy to tell you that we probably agreed to an increase in educational benefits for our veterans that not only gives them that gives them an increase in their educational benefits, but if they stay in for a certain amount of time than they can transfer those educational benefits to their spouses and or children. That’s a very important aspect I think of incentivizing people of staying in the military.”
Unfortunately, however, McCain not only opposed the bill, he didn’t vote for it.
Oops.
JOHN McCAIN: Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.
This man is a laff-riot! I tell you what.
the McCains have “failed to pay taxes on their beach-front home in La Jolla, California, for the last four years and are about to enter into default. … the McCains had been delinquent in paying taxes until Newsweek inquired about the matter. The McCains then paid off $6,744.42 in back taxes, but still owe more.”
Frank Rich on recent Rovian smears:
Its racial undertones are naked enough. Earlier this year, Mr. Rove wrote that Mr. Obama was “often lazy,” and that his “trash talking” during a debate was “an unattractive carry-over from his days playing pickup basketball at Harvard.” Last week Mr. Rove caricatured him as the elitist “guy at the country club with the beautiful date.” Provocative as it is to inject Mr. Obama into a setting historically associated with white Republicans, the invocation of that “beautiful date” is even more so. Where’s his beautiful wife? Mr. Rove’s suggestion that Mr. Obama might be a sexual freelancer, as an astute post at the Web site Talking Points Memo noted, could conjure up for a certain audience the image of “a white woman on his arm.”
But here, too, Mr. Rove reeks of the past. Should Mr. Black and Mr. McCain follow this ugly lead, I bet it will help them even less than the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/opinion/29rich.html?em&ex=1214971200&en=efab807c7121d245&ei=5087%0A
But McCain remains the media’s darling …
McCain has held moderate position on issues the Republican base does not. He has had to flip flop to attract them. Will he have to flip again as he tries to move toward the center during the general election season?
New Bumper sticker:
McCain: Flip-flop-flip.
Time to flip him off!
Maybe his captivity wasn’t nearly as bad as he makes out.
“Heckler: Where is YOUR head?” (June 30, 2008 at 9:13 am)
===
As per the link inserted with this reply, what does Obama dressed in Muslim garb and McCain dressed in a flight suit have to do with a presidential debate?
If we ever see a debate we will see both of them equally dressed in suits and ties.
The only way to get issues answered is for them to have a series of debates.
Welcome to today’s episode of “Gossip Girl”.
Brought to you by all the fact deficient democrats on this Blog with nothing to add but rhetorical questions and humorously false rumors.
“maybe he is a “closet” member of the IRA…”
“maybe his buddy Keating will be his partner - again!”
“Will he have to flip again as he tries to move toward the center?”
“Who will McCain choose as a running mate? Will he be independent? Or will he bow to the right-wing?”
“Was McCain even tortured?”
YAWN.
Heckler,
Is your head attached to your neck?
The Times and the Scriptures
The Separation of Church and State
(Note: The full text of the exchange of letters between President Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists can be viewed at The Times and the Scriptures website, http://www.timesandscriptures.com, by clicking the “Links” page and looking under “American Christian History.” You can even access Jefferson’s handwritten original copy.)
The Baptist Association of Danbury, CT wrote a respectful letter to President Thomas Jefferson and received a gracious personal reply.The churches were worried that their religious liberties, which appeared by the First Amendment to be “granted” by a man-made Constitution, could later be limited by the government if it so chose.
President Jefferson reassured his correspondents that their religious freedoms were God-given, and that the First Amendment merely sought to create a barrier against the federal government tampering with those liberties. The amendment had built, he wrote, “a wall of separation between Church and State.” He called this an “expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience.” The amendment clearly meant that law-abiding churches and individuals were to be utterly free to practice their religion without disadvantage or interference from the federal government. Many of Jefferson’s later writings re-confirm that this was his meaning. For example, in his Second Inaugural Address (1805) he said the Constitution had rendered the “free exercise” of religion “independent of the powers of the General [federal] Government.”
(See also Backgrounder #21, Founders Breached the Famous “Wall.”)
Jefferson’s Danbury letter was written in 1802. Over the next 145 years it was cited in only one court case, probably because it was a private correspondence, not a judicial utterance. Then suddenly in 1947 the now-famous phrase appeared in the Supreme Court’s Everson v Board of Education decision, where the Court reached for the first time into religious matters involving the states, not the federal government. The eight words were quoted without context, and used to support a proposition opposite from what Jefferson had said. The church, now, was to be kept at a distance from the state.
The words, used in their new sense, rapidly became favorites for judicial activists (judges—and their supporters—who think significant changes in law should come about by court decisions rather than by legislation). A concerned state Supreme Court justice in 1958 warned that if his colleagues did not stop speaking of “separation of church and state,” people would start thinking it was part of the U.S. Constitution. Indeed, a later poll found 67% of Americans thinking exactly that. Ironically, the phrase in its Russian equivalent did appear, word for word, in the old Soviet Union’s constitution.
Thus, a seeming impossibility came to pass. A non-constitutional phrase was turned on its head, invested with pseudo-constitutional authority, and used time after time to limit the influence and freedoms of Christianity in America, all in a very few decades.
Ardent admirers of this new separation may confess that the words “separation of church and state” do not appear anywhere in the Constitution or any other founding document, but insist that the idea is implied there. We can test this notion in at least three ways. We could examine the Founding Fathers’ carefully recorded discussions that led to formulating the amendment, and we could look at the religion-friendly practices of those same men before, during and after the Constitutional Convention.
http://www.timesandscriptures.com/backgrounder.dsp
Let’s examine how the dialogue must have went: NVA commander’ “John, we’ve decided to release you so we’ll have a propaganda victory and demoralize the remaining pow’s.”
Steeley eyed John; “Oh, yea you slant eyed gook Mf’er, you just try and release me and see what I do!”
“Ok, JOhn, don’t get so upset, he’ll, I was just joking!”
“All right then, bring me some more goddam rice!”
“Ok John, but you know all you have to do when ever you are ready to leave, is say “Nixon’s wife’s a c%nt.”
“Go F yourself, ain’t going to happen. And my bottom line is I’m not leaving this place until everyone leaves”
Oh I don’t know, Obama was a Community Organizer for 5 years in Chicago.
You should be careful what you ask for American. You just might get it. Hugo Black (since you want to discuss Everson v Board) made it clear that preference of one religion over another was the issue.
Do you want one religion to have preference over another in this country?
You appear to think that the Government is accountable to religion but not vice versa. What you don’t seem to understand is that such an idea would grant the popular religion preference over less popular religions. That’s dangerous.
I suppose that if Satanism became the most powerful religion of the US, your argument would be used against you. I think you would change your tune then.
Good point VET. Having gone to school where Protestant prayer and King James Bible-reading were required I can see where a dominant religion can force itself on others.
True Ben, Rutlidge (dissenter) even admitted that the money came from tax dollars. His flimsy excuse was that it didn’t technically constitute “support”
Rather it was “aid”
I suppose that if Satanism became the most powerful religion of the US….
-VET
Do you not think that IF satanism is the most powerful religion in the US that those satanic voters will vote for satanic politicians and the government will then reflect the satanic wishes of the satanic populous?
Is that not democracy?
If a majority of people in a democracy suscribe to a certain religion, then in should be quite obvious that they will vote for those who emulate the principles as defined by their religion. To endorse a government that does not deliver in this fashion is to endorse an ANTI-democratic government.
In a democracy, logic says that if you do not like the people who you share your goverment with, you will not like your government.
Yet those who hate christianity love the government that christianity started. Illogical though it be.
Kind of tells you something about why christianity is the majority in this country doesn’t it? People are not fleeing to muslim lands, satanic lands, or atheistic lands. Albeit, muslims, satanists, and atheists find freedom (ecnomic and religious) in a country were Christians are in a majority!
bth is welcomed and encouraged to cite examples how a religion has been forced upon him in this the United States of America. Perhaps he needs to be instructed that a privately funded parochial school and the United States Government are two distinctly different entities.
Christianity started this government. Another lie. There was just as much influence by Free Masons as there was by Christians.
Otherwise the original framework of the Declaration of Indepence would have stood “We hold these truths to be sacred” and “endowed by GOD”
As it stands you know what the Declaration of Independence says.
Now if Satanic voters voted for their ideals, luckily the Constitution would keep them in check as it keeps you Christians in check. And that still gaws at you.
Perhaps he needs to be instructed that a privately funded parochial school and the United States Government are two distinctly different entities.
No RFL - I need no such instruction. The DeKalb County Georgia PUBLIC schools (Avondale Elentary and High Schools to be exact) are not privately funded parochial schools.
I will agree that DeKalb County and the US Federal Government are different things - however they are both government entities.
BTW - since Parochial generally refers to Catholic it would have been unlikely that they would have used PROTESTANT prayers and King James.
No need to get involved Ben. I will handle the other charge: If my tax dollars go to the Faith Based Initiative, then your Christian faith is being forced on me.
Too easy.
Obama’s bottom line can be seen in his FLIP FLOP on the Heller vs DC Supreme Court Case.
Whether Obama supports the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution or not, depends on the opinion of the day.
Where does Obama Stand?
Wherever the Winds of Change Blow Him!
I will give an example that does NOT cross the line IMO. On an Ash Wednesday at UCLA the Priests from the Newman Cneter decided to set up a portable alter at the bottom of Janss Steps to dispense ashes. Perfectly within their rights IMO. They were on ’state land’ it is true - but in no way did they infringe on the rest of us.
Even though they did forget to get a permit …
And, they were not hassled by campus police or anyone else.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
HOPE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
HOPE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
HOPE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
HOPE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
CHANGE. CHANGE. CHANGE.
“RFL” –
When I was in First Grade we were forced to recite the Flag Salute and the Lord’s Prayer (public school).
I was raised in the Presbyterian Church. Perhaps because it’s a Scottish sect, the Presbies say “…forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” The harpy of a First Grade teacher punished me for “disrupting the class” by not reciting, “…forgive us our trespasses…”
Not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, I guess (apart from having to sit out a couple of recesses), but my Dad took his objection to the school’s principal, the superintendent of schools, and soon thereafter there was no required public school prayer.
“Welcome to today’s episode of ‘Gossip Girl’.”
The argument-deficit RFL provides a new ad hominem.
Double Yawn…
MH - and I later learned that the ending is different for Catholics than for Protestants.
The 12:01 post is a transcript from Obama’s week-end speeches.
This is Not a summary transcript, this is a complete transcript of the SUBSTANCE of Obama’s speeches over 2 days.
When I was in grade school - early Sixties - we recited the Pledge and the Lord’s Prayer each day at the beginning of class in a public school.
Even at that time, I thought that it was pretty strange that we were being taught religion at school.
Got a link Max?? Oh yea, what parallel universe did you hear THAT speech???
Link Max…
“No need to get involved Ben.”
Step aside Ben, VET is here to save the day.
I am glad VET has chosen to live in a nation that was founded on judeo-christian principles. Countless millions share VET’s sentiment that a government that is founded on judeo-christian values is the best type of government to have. Countless millions still immigrate to this country to enjoy America’s unrivaled freedoms (freedom that comes from its correctly principled government).
VET’s continued presence in this free country is a tacit vote in favor of christianity. Otherwise, he would leave.
God Bless America.
Clark: according to my grandma, that didn’t happen in the 30s and 40s.
It wasn’t until the old McCarthy/Hoover movement that it happened. Strange how “Communists” were replaced with “terrorists” McCarthy/Hoover replaced with Bush/Cheney.
But both examples started with our nation being afraid.
Then there was the John F. Kennedy, too young, not enough experience, appeaser, not enough detail etc.
History does seem to repeat itself
Lord lead us not into temptation;
And deliver us from those who
Think they’re You! A-men!
The argument-deficit RFL provides a new ad hominem.
StevenEDavis accuses RFL of providing a new ad hominem which is as always a non sequitur.
Triple Yawn…
Vet has chosen to live in a country founded on liberty. Vet has chosen to live in a country founded on the bill of Rights. Vet has chosen to live in a country founded on separation of powers.
You can keep spouting that it comes from your religious views. People like me ensured your freedom on speech.
Your existence in this country is a reminder of how important those liberties are. Or else YOU would leave.
When I was in First Grade we were forced to recite the Flag Salute and the Lord’s Prayer (public school).
-MH
It’s interesting that those who claim that the christians are forcing religion on them have go back to the 60’s or prior to give the most telling example.
For the rest of us born after 1970, I guess we can just sit back and listen to the the ol’timers tell us how things USED to be.
Maybe somebody should tell them that it is 2008, the vietnam war is over, JFK is dead, and prayer is OUT of public schools.
Hello? is this thing on?
Us “old timers” see too many similarities between Bush/Cheney and McCarthy/Hoover. But I suppose you are too young to know about that.
Now would you care to explain how my tax dollars going to the faith based initiative is NOT forcing your religion on me?
Obama’s core principles are simple: get elected. But this is a problem:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/?page=full
As a state senator, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee coauthored an Illinois law creating a new pool of tax credits for developers. As a US senator, he pressed for increased federal subsidies. And as a presidential candidate, he has campaigned on a promise to create an Affordable Housing Trust Fund that could give developers an estimated $500 million a year.
But a Globe review found that thousands of apartments across Chicago that had been built with local, state, and federal subsidies - including several hundred in Obama’s former district - deteriorated so completely that they were no longer habitable.
Grove Parc and several other prominent failures were developed and managed by Obama’s close friends and political supporters. Those people profited from the subsidies even as many of Obama’s constituents suffered. Tenants lost their homes; surrounding neighborhoods were blighted.
—
Oops.
Pad the friends and associates’ bank accounts, use the poor to do so. You mean he’s not a different kind of Democrat - er, politician - at all?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/27300.html
“and the “demo swiftboaters” start their garbage….after whining about the exact same tactics 4 years ago, now they are engaging in the same smear/lying type of tactics.”
So you are saying McCain never flip-flopped on anything? That’s quite the stretch. Read any newspapers lately?
“It’s interesting that those who claim that the christians are forcing religion on them have go back to the 60’s or prior to give the most telling example.”
I went to public school in the 70s and 90s and was required to say Christian prayers in school.
“VET’s continued presence in this free country is a tacit vote in favor of christianity.”
Horseshit.
“I went to public school in the 70s and 90s”
—
This from the guy who calls others “mental retards”
I think the make-up and finger nail paint fumes are getting to ya MP.
According to Vet, Clark, Ben and many more, a government formed by people like those below would indubitably suck. Yet VET, Clark and Ben all live happily in a government formed by the same. Interesting denial of history these bloggers are capable of.
1) Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
” Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure…are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.”
2) Benjamin Franklin
In Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”
3) Alexander Hamilton:
“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.”
4) John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity…
5) Noah Webster:
“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed…No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]
6) George Washington:
During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.
What were these founding fathers thinking? I guess if you disgree with these fellas, you might want to rethink your support for the goverment that they all helped set up.
……………… Ben Franklin.
“Although Franklin’s parents had intended for him to have a career in the church, Franklin became disillusioned with organized religion after discovering Deism. “I soon became a thorough Deist.”[35] He went on to attack Christian principles of free will and morality in a 1725 pamphlet, A Dissertation on Liberty and Necessity, Pleasure and Pain.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
John Adams……………
“As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”
John Adams, December 27, 1816
“Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?”
John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 19, 1821
And……………………
“The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity….
“Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism.”
The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831.
“Now would you care to explain how my tax dollars going to the faith based initiative is NOT forcing your religion on me?”
I feel your pain VET,
My tax dollars are paid to fund education of faith based evolution.
We must stop this attempt to push a religion on other people.
Ben, it’s your cue to post Benjamin Franklin’s essay “On Chosing a mistress” you missed your cue.
But now we will hear of the Freemasons that signed the constitution:
Gunnin Beford Jr.
John Blair
David Brearly
Jacob Broom
Johnathan Dayton
John Dickinson
Benjamin Franklin
Nicolas Gilman
Rufus King
James McHenrey
William Patterson
George Washington
http://bessel.org/constmas.htm
Now you have a point RFL. Thank you for finally joining in the debate.
So My Friends, how does a POW dictate to their captors the terms for their release, the when and how?
We shouldn’t fund any belief (evolution or religion) with taxpayers dollars. I can agree on that.
“This from the guy who calls others “mental retards””
How does going to school make one a “mental retard”? I suppose you are claiming you never got an education. Well, that explains your abuse of logic.
http://faculty.sanjuancollege.edu/krobison/documents/Franklin-ChoosingMistress.htm
Advice on Choosing a Mistress
from a private letter by Ben Franklin,
Philadelphia, June 25, 1745
GMC, that Boston Globe article is hardly getting ANY notice by the rest of the media. Surprise! (not)
The mainstream Obama media is somehow reluctant to ask Obama how he’ll solve the current Housing Crisis, given Obama’s past failures in Chicago’s housing projects.
Course OBAMA DID SUCCEED IN LINING THE POCKETS OF THE RICH DEVELOPERS in Chicago, though the poor are worse off.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/?page=full
Grim proving ground for Obama’s housing policy
The candidate endorsed subsidies for private entrepreneurs to build low-income units. But, while he garnered support from developers, many projects in his former district have fallen into disrepair.
“Obama might have a similar bottom line, core principles for which, in some sense, he is willing to die. If so, we don’t know what they are.”
And not even the Local All-knowing Libs can answer that question.
Obama’s core principles?
CHANGE….HOPE….Change….Hope….change…hope……..
Of course McCane wants torture legal; otherwise he could be arrested for some of his speeches, not to mention his jokes!
Besides, this is the guy who, when he returned to his supermodel wife and found she wasn’t still drop-dead gorgeous, immediately began cheating on her, and divorced her to marry the richest of his paramours. And now that she’s had a stroke, he refers to her as a c*nt and trollop. Would you leave him alone in the oval office with an 18yr-old intern?
Some people think Mr. Straight Talk abandoned his principles to suck up to Bush. There’s some truth to that, but long before he was snorkeling W., he was snorkeling Ronald Reagan. And many of his “maverick” positions were conspicuously absent then, with the possible exception of “we shouldn’t do anything improper” (Keating Five quote).
Obama’s core principles?
CHANGE….HOPE….Change….Hope….change…hope……..
Nice, Max: “Your guy sucks too!”
“I’m Cynthia McKinney and I approved this message.”
AH Obama will not do anything about gas prices and the drilling of our reserves and he damn sure wont do anything about the illegals and those my friends are facts.
Religion is no longer a part of public school?
Those who believe that they have been victorious in getting religion out of public schools should:
…check the little inspirational cards under the glass tops on teacher’s desks.
…look at the photos on the walls behind teacher’s desks.
…check keyrings and things teachers carry on their person.
…observe the desktops on teacher’s computers.
…look at the neckwear on students and what they wear (crosses, pins, booksack photos, rings, etc.)
Religion doesn’t have to be verbal to be present in student’s minds or in public schools.
Addendum to last message….
This has been said many times….
“There will be prayer in schools (public or otherwise) as long as there are tests.”
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
MSR - and there is nothing wrong with that. My issue was the government-mandated Protestant prayer and Bible readings.
You all couldn’t say enough about Kerry getting a few medals for a few months combat duty, what about this?
McCain III was awarded “medals for valor” equal to nearly a medal-and-a-half for each
hour he spent in combat
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded
McCain III, the son of famous admirals, a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished
Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a
dozen service medals.
“McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat,” explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former
chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs — the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam
since the 1973 fall of Saigon.
“Since McCain got 28 medals,” Bell continued, “that equals to about a medal-and-a-half for
each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys — grunts on the ground — who had more
than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I’m sure
a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how
many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down.”
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and
biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed
to gloss over his failures as a pilot and his collaborations with the enemy to become America’s
POW-hero presidential candidate.
phantom is still an idiot.
McCain was in a combat zone the whole time he was stationed on the aircraft carrier. He may have engaged the enemy for twenty hours, but I’m very sure the flight to and from; and those preparations took much longer.
I doubt seriously any combat grunt has 7000 hours of enemy engagement. Perhaps 7000 hours in a combat zone, but not enemy engagement.
Phantom/nano is an idiot.
Regular - but, as yu know, while on ship he was in no way exposed to the enemy.
The Republic’s “family values” candidate,
‘What will we do in Campaign 08 when the press corps helps voters “imagine?” ‘
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh090106.html
“But in December 1999, Nancy Gibbs and John Dickerson, writing in Time, described the way their cohort was covering — and covering up for—their champion:
GIBBS/DICKERSON (12/13/99): And then there are the stories he tells — to which, if there’s a pattern, it’s to exalt other people and deflate himself.
A presidential candidate is not supposed to tell you about the rules he broke or the strippers he dated, or the time he arrived so drunk that he fell through the screen door of the young lady he was wooing.
The candor tells you more than the content, and reporters sometimes just decide to take McCain off the record because they don’t want to see him flame out and burn up a great story.
‘The Power and The Story’
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992801-8,00.html
Do you not know the difference between ” In combat” and in a combat zone?
Sounds like they’re talking about the time he actually spent on a mission.
Bet Kerry spent more than 20 hrs. on patrol.
Interesting info. about mccain:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/mcianhro.htm
RFL Posted >>>>
RFL
Posted June 30, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
According to Vet, Clark, Ben and many more, a government formed by people like those below would indubitably suck. Yet VET, Clark and Ben all live happily in a government formed by the same. Interesting denial of history these bloggers are capable of.
1) Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
” Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure…are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.”
2) Benjamin Franklin
In Benjamin Franklin’s 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach “the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern.”
3) Alexander Hamilton:
“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.”
4) John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity…
5) Noah Webster:
“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed…No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]
6) George Washington:
During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.
What were these founding fathers thinking? I guess if you disgree with these fellas, you might want to rethink your support for the goverment that they all helped set up.
======================================
Every one of those has long ago been shown to be so much horse dung, in the chicken coop… In other words, taken totally out of context… Given time, and a short bone dig, the actual CONTEXT of each one of those statements can be shown, and the glossed over quotes listed here can be shown false (in proper context)….
I dont have that time tonight… But I have started the process….
And, for the record, I call BULLSHIT on RFL. I have consistently voted for Christians for public office - his conclusions are bunk.
28 medals for flying 23 missions, did the Red Barron even have that kind of mission/decoration ratio? That’s another reason that any investigation by the military would be suspect. RHIP, and when the R stands for relationship, you better believe it!
“In fact, there is scant evidence the Illinois senator takes positions that challenge his base or otherwise threaten him politically.”
Huh?
Obama pisses me off all the time. That business about the Republican party being the party of idea s?
The majority of the Founding Fathers were deists.
For those who might be confused, here’s the definition:
Deist
De”ist\ (d[=e]“[i^]st), n. [L. deus god: cf. F. d['e]iste. See Deity.] One who believes in the existence of a God, but denies revealed religion; a freethinker.
RFL
Posted June 30, 2008 at 12:20 pm | Permalink
The argument-deficit RFL provides a new ad hominem.
StevenEDavis accuses RFL of providing a new ad hominem which is as always a non sequitur.
Triple Yawn…
**********
Being acused of non seuiturs by the RFL poster is enough to make me laugh for the next twenty years. This post from the intelligent designed poster of no logical arguments who is on his face is a complete joke. Thanks for laughs, joker.
Please go ESAD and make your species much better. I am sure you can do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur
Quadruple yawn…
#
Regular
Posted June 30, 2008 at 6:33 pm | Permalink
Phantom/nano is an idiot.
Regular, you’re a waste of bandwidth. Nothing you post makes any difference because everybody knows you’re a liar.
You’re just useless background noise.
Pig.
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It sounds interesting but I am not sure that I agree with you completely….
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