With Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., having drawn a credible opponent in former Democratic congressman Jim Slattery, there is much mention of the facts that Kansans haven’t elected a Democrat to the U.S. Senate since 1932 and only a total of three since statehood in 1861. But such trivia overlook the barn-burner Senate election in 1974, when Bob Dole escaped the Watergate fallout and won re-election over congressman Bill Roy by only 13,500 votes.
Roy has a commentary on today’s Opinion page noting how much doctors now favor some form of universal health care, and how that is the most economic, efficient system.
34 Comments
Yep, Ol’ Bill Roy. He hasn’t been right about much since he lost that race with Dole.
Amtrack is the most ‘economical and efficient’ way to travel too. I recommend that if you want government run health care you take the train to Washington and talk to your representative about it.
People should read the column provided by the link. Dr. Roy.
A single-payer not-for-profit system would provide universal health care for all Kansans and would save the state a billion dollars a year. “Medicare Everywhere” for all ages is the logical, rational, compassionate, and conservative approach to the health care crisis.
I have never seen anything substantial YET to back up the Right Wing claims about “government run health care” — Just aint gonna happen!! The RIGHT is beating a dead straw horse!!! LOL First they build the straw horse, then beat it to death!!
Try talking the language of “reality” instead of the fantasy you create, just to tear it down… Sort of easy to tear down the fantasy you create, eh??
Get with Reality, CONS!! Nobody is listening to your fantasies, in case you havent noticed!!
“HLP” obviously feels his foundation crumbling away with –
“Amtrack is the most ‘economical and efficient’ way to travel too.”
(Notice the typical CON tactic of trying to change the subject at hand?)
Turns out, Bushonomics has resulted in a huge increase of Amtrack ridership in those areas where passenger trains have been built to serve the needs of the people (primarily in the New England to Mid-Atlantic states corridor. But also in California and other population centers.)
Ideology taints your outlook, “HLP.” It’s all you’ve got.
I read the column, MonkeyHawk. In fact, I posted my comment there first.
I find it amusing that people point to the failed Medicare program as an example of a single payer health care system.
Medicare is a cancerous festering sore on the butt of society. Everyone pays their whole earning adult life for the privilege of paying more when they are forced onto Medicare.
Medicare could not exist if it didn’t piggy-back the very health care system the politicians condemn. When you go to the doctor, part of your charges subsidize the failed Medicare/Medicade system.
If it wasn’t for Medicare and Medicade everyone would pay less for health care.
The absurdity of Medicare, “HLP” –
…is that it covers only those people most likely to need extensive and expensive health care services.
It’s like an insurance company that covers only drunk drivers.
I’ve seen studies that indicate fully half of all the money expended for ones health care is spent in the last 12 months of life; life-support, surgeries, ICUs, ambulances and trauma centers…
The only Medicare “crisis” is that the actuarial risk pool is exclusively composed of the most expensive people to insure. Add everyone to the risk pool, most of those 20-year-olds won’t use all that much expensive health care, but the 15-year-old gymnast who develops leukemia won’t have to hold bake sales outside of Wal-Mart to get the medicine that can cure her.
What’s more. Only 70 cents of the premium dollar sent to for-profit health insurance companies goes to paying for, y’know, health care. The data processing wing of Blue Cross and Blue Cross of Kansas processes all of Kansas’ Medicare claims with a 3% overhead. Funny how you can fund an essential service for 27% less when you take away corporate jets and stockholder dividends.
Give me the choice: I’ve got X-dollars a month to pay for health care. Do I give it to the guy who flies to the condo in Aspen three times a year and spends 70 cents of each dollar for his clients’ health care? Or do I suffer from a “tax” horrors!!! that means 97 cents of each dollar saves people’s lives and makes people healthy?
That’s your dilemma, “HLP.”
Your ideological revulsion to the words “socialized medicine” have led you on a false quest. Your compass is skewed and all those concepts that drew you to self-identify as a “conservative” are coming back to bite you in the ass.
You want to keep more of your hard-
marriedearned cash in your pocket? A single-payer not-for-profit concept like Medicare Everywhere would save Kansans more than a billion dollars a year.Albeit, it might put a crimp on the Learjet market.
Well, MonkeyHawk,
Problem is with your mindless diatribe is that you’ve missed the main point of my argument.
As costly and inefficient as Medicare is, it couldn’t exist without the privately funded health care system you condemn.
What the government proposes with their various ’single payer systems’ isn’t socialized medicine, it’s fascist medicine.
With socialized medicine the government would be responsible for everything, from educating the doctors to building and maintaining the hospitals. They would develop the medicines and the new developments in equipment.
What they propose is to basically take over the best health care delivery system in the world and tell doctors and hospitals how much they can charge and the patients what services they will be allowed to obtain.
What will result is an ever more intrusive and inefficient system.
Doctors are usually very smart people. They don’t invest a quarter of a million dollars and eight to twelve years of their life for the government to tell them how to utilize their education. They’ll merely find another way to make a living, just like thousands of them are doing now because of government intrusion into their business.
Hospitals in this country are the best equipped and most advanced in the world, despite government involvement. How many of these ‘Lear Jet flying’ executives do you think will stay in the business when government bureaucrats start telling them how to run their business?
Every problem with our present day health care system can be directly attributed to oppressive government involvement. Every one. The answer is not allowing nitwits like Bill Roy to take over.
J R sings….
His wife the witch doctor she tells him what to say.
His wife the witch doctor she tells him what to do.
“They’ll merely find another way to make a living, just like thousands of them are doing now because of government intrusion into their business.”
Let ‘em.
The health care business, from doctors to insurance, to technicians is bloated with people who are in in it only for the money.
I’d LIKE to see the government streamline it.
“HLP” provides this 98% non-name-calling post –
“As costly and inefficient as Medicare is, it couldn’t exist without the privately funded health care system you condemn.”
Wow. You may have just won the WE Blog traveling trophy for the most wrong things packed into a single declarative sentence.
I suggest you expand whatever passes for your thinking behind the above statement. You’ve got no premise, no logic, no argument, only a conclusion which stinks like wherever you pulled it from.
“What the government proposes with their various ’single payer systems’ isn’t socialized medicine, it’s fascist medicine.
“With socialized medicine the government would be responsible for everything, from educating the doctors to building and maintaining the hospitals. They would develop the medicines and the new developments in equipment.”
So, by your definition, the Canadian system is not “socialized medicine.”
Have you been living in a cave, “HLP.” One of the reasons pharmaceuticals are cheaper from Canadian pharmacies is because Canada can negotiate with private manufacturers to get a better price than the for-profit health cartel in America.
“What they propose is to basically take over “the best health care delivery system in the world…”
Sez who?!
That’s nothing but jingoism once you look at every other developed first-world nation on the planet, most of whom have vastly superior delivery systems for health care.
Wrap yourself in a flag, “HLP.” It’ll become your shroud.
“…and tell doctors and hospitals how much they can charge and the patients what services they will be allowed to obtain.”
In this country, it’s spelled “HMO.” And it delvers only 70 cents per premium dollar for actual health care. Gotta keep those Learjets flying health care executives to their condos in Aspen.
“What will result is an ever more intrusive and inefficient system.”
For-profit health insurance is the most intrusive and inefficient health care delivery system on the planet.
“Doctors are usually very smart people.”
They can’t all be that smart. One of ‘em married you.
“They don’t invest a quarter of a million dollars and eight to twelve years of their life for the government to tell them how to utilize their education.”
Think not? How ’bout government paying for bright young caring people’s education in return for a fine income and secure career?
Seems to work in every other developed nation on the planet.
“They’ll merely find another way to make a living, just like thousands of them are doing now because of government intrusion into their business.”
Again. Did you read Roy’s column? Doctors would much rather deal with a single-payer than dozens of conflicting intrusions from for-profit insurance companies.
“Hospitals in this country are the best equipped and most advanced in the world, despite government involvement.”
And despite for-profit schemes that take health care dollars away from patients and invest in Learjets and condos in Aspen.
“How many of these ‘Lear Jet flying’ executives do you think will stay in the business when government bureaucrats start telling them how to run their business?”
Uhm… none of them, maybe?
That’s sort of my point, “HLP.” (Do try to keep up.)
How ’bout this for a solution to all those Learjet -flying ex-executives of for-profit health insurers: ““They’ll merely find another way to make a living.”
I made a post and used three sources from the hundreds available (I tired to use ones everyone would deem credible). Of course WordPress wouldn’t let me use that many sources as it prefers the idiotic opinions posted with no verification.
Why is it WordPress advises you “go back and delete the http portions…,” but when one does go back WordPress has eliminated your entire comment?
Suffice it to say, the U.S. of A. is far, far from the best. In fact far down the line behind most countries in health care delivery, efficiancies and preventable death rankings.
Google has hundreds of sources for review. Just don’t try to bring many here unless you make multiple posts. After building a well-sourced post and having WordPress eat it I must move on.
Good morning J R,
You know, I’ve been thinking. You enjoy your personal little attacks while you hide behind your nic.
In the past I’ve honored your desire to be anonymous, but I’m seriously reconsidering. I think that maybe in the future when you seem to be unable to respond to one of my posts without dragging my wife into the mix I’ll address my response using your full name and address.
It’s only fair, you know a lot about my personal life and use it to attack my ideas and my positions. We’ll see how you like it in return.
Monkey
I could be wrong here, but I think that Blue LOST the Medicare/Medicaid CMS contract, in Kansas.
Monkey
You are completely wrong on your statements about Canadian drugs, vs US drugs.
There IS a government mandated “cap” on prices, in Canada.
However, those caps almost never come into play.
The MARKET keeps those prices lower.
There is a true “free market” for prescription drugs, in Canada.
Add to the mix: there is no “class action” lawsuit risk, in Canada. This greatly reduces the price of drugs.
Also, it is FALSE to claim that, somehow, we do not have “competition” in drug prices, here in the United States.
On Medicare Part D, for instance, the drug companies negotiate with the insurance companies on many points: What “tier” to place a drug: Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, or Tier 4.
There is also competition in areas like “precertification” — which does force doctors to prescribe cheaper drugs, if a cheaper drug will do the job as well, for a particular patient. Drug companies try to keep prices low, in order to avoid precertification or “step-therapy” rules.
Also, in the United States, there are direct, CASH payments made, from the drug companies to the insurance companies, based on volume sold through that insurance company. These payments are used to negotiate Tier levels, precertification issues and step therapy issues.
Talk to anyone on Medicare who has opted into a
Part D prescription plan. They will have a “Plan Document” that spells out these competitive issues, somewhere in the plan.
Monkey, on this issue, you clearly do not know what you are talking about.
#
HLP
Posted June 21, 2008 at 9:49 am | Permalink
Good morning J R,
You know, I’ve been thinking. You enjoy your personal little attacks while you hide behind your nic.
In the past I’ve honored your desire to be anonymous, but I’m seriously reconsidering. I think that maybe in the future when you seem to be unable to respond to one of my posts without dragging my wife into the mix I’ll address my response using your full name and address.
It’s only fair, you know a lot about my personal life and use it to attack my ideas and my positions. We’ll see how you like it in return.
———————————-
No need Hank, we all know who J R (aka Bluejay) the J. Ryan Remil is.
They boy just hasn’t been of the right mind since his daddy J. Remil the bigger passed on.
The premium for Medicare Part B is now, roughly, $96 per month. (It is not the same for everyone, it is now “means tested” and can be as over $162.00 per month, per person.)
Medicare Part A is “free” to the beneficiary.
Part A pays for hospitalization and SKILLED nursing care.
Part B pays for out patient care.
The government HEAVILY subsidizes Medicare.
How much is Medicare worth? It is estimated that the total cost of the Medicare program is, roughly, $760.00 per MONTH for each person on Part A, Part B and D, combined.
For this, the beneficiary pays at least $96.00 per month for Part B and roughly $25 per month for a Part D drug plan, per person. A heavily subsidized bargain, for the beneficiary.
However, how many of you, out there, what to pay even $120.00 per month? You will pay at LEAST that amount, since it is politically impossible to give the under-65 crowd a better deal than what the over-65 crowd currently has!
Now, what does Medicare cover?
Medicare does NOT cover nursing home care, at all, ever, period.
During the first 60 days of hospitalization, the beneficiary must pay pay a $1,024 deductable PER ADMISSION. I have had several clients who incurred over $3000.00 in deductables in ONE year.
From days 61-90 the beneficiary must cover $256.00 per day in co-pays.
From days 91-150 the beneficiary must cover $512.00 per day in co-pays.
After 150 days in the hospital? Medicare pays NOTHING and the beneficiary/patient must pick up the entire bill!
Medicare only pays for skilled nursing care, and then Medicare only pays for 20 days. After 20 days of skilled nursing care, the patient/beneficiary must pay a $128 per day co-pay.
Medicare Part B currently has a $135.00 annual deductable. However, the co-pay, after the deductable, is 20%. For Chemo patients, radiation patients, and kidney patients, this can be thousands of dollars every year, in out of pocket expenses.
“Cost shifting” is how Medicare and Medicaid stay afloat. As Hank said, earlier, we all pay higher prices, when under age 65, so that the government can “short change” the same charges, for those over age 65.
“Medicare Assignment” is the government mandated fee for every service available. The government frequently “assigns” a fee which is lower than the cost of the services.
We all pick up the difference, when we pay our bills.
—-
Universal coverage is a pipe dream.
It will not happen.
We can not afford Medicare and Medicaid, as currently authorized.
Politically, it will be impossible to provide “universal coverage” that reduces the benefits of Medicare.
Politically, it will be impossible to provide “universal coverage” which is better than current Medicare.
Politically, it will be impossible to provide “universal coverage” which reduces the current value of Teamsters, Machinists Union, NEA and other PRIVATE health insurance.
Financially, it will be impossible for Medicare and Medicaid to “subsidize” themselves, through “cost shifting” when there is, no longer, any group of private insurers on which to “shift” the costs.
Unfortunately I have reached that age where I receive Medicare benefits from the government whether I want them or not. I have not investigated the system thoroughly … probably I should so I know better the services that are available.
1) As far as I know, seniors must receive Medicare benefits. Would be interesting to see a comparison of costs of Medicare coverage TO costs of all private insurance coverage.
2) I personally have not used many Medicare funded health care services, probably for lack of time that I want to use for visiting doctors offices. Of course, some seniors and regular patients as well, do overuse the systems whether paid for by medicare or private insurance or government social service agencies … for which the great majority must pay for.
3) I don’t see any mention above that most seniors on Medicare probably also purchase a “supplemental insurance” policy to supplement their Part A and Part B Medicare protection. I happen to use Blue Cross and Blue Shield, Plan F select, for another cost of about $100/month.
4) Three or four years ago, when Part D prescription drug coverage, came along, I was telemarketed by some phantom salesman who said he represented my supplemental health insurance company. I later realized most of what he said was a lie. But in any case, he signed me up without my approval. It took months and my threats of a law suit to finally get this coverage cancelled. Needless to say I have never signed up for Part D and don’t intend to.
Since that time, I have watched this Part D “program” grow. I’m convinced that in most cases its not needed. I believe it is designed to eliminate price shopping and thus competition by individual customers. Pharmaceuticals have become much cheaper for everyone at the large retailers, Dillons and Wal-Mart and others. Also I’m convinced most prescription drugs prescribed by doctors are not needed … mostly prescribed to line doctors’ pockets. Also many prescription drugs can be found in less concentration and more safety on the regular pharmaceutical shelves.
5) In regard to doctors, I have rarely found doctors over the years that provide services without a lot of baggage/time/money for their patients. Doctors are no smarter than any other professional group. Many times, they have personal lives that are in shambles. Doctors are trained in government tax supported school buildings, by tax paid professors and staff. Doctors are probably the biggest tax hogs going. ITS TIME TO COMPLETELY REDO THE DOCTORING SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY.
6) Private insurance companies do add one more safety gate to our medical services system.
JWink
Of course, I SELL Medicare Supplement or Medigap insurance.
My point, above, is that Medicare is far from perfect and contains many “gaps” — the same will be true of any other government program.
Oh, and Part A IS mandatory at age 65.
Part B is voluntary.
As I said, the program is heavily subsidized. It is impossible for any private program to compete with Medicare A and Medicare B, without similar subsidies.
Medicare C, or “Medicare Advantage” basically gets the “census” subsidy, for the Medicare A and Medicare B average cost, in that geographic area.
As a regular reader of Roy’s weekly column on CJ online, I daily thank the good Lord that Dole prevailed in 74. Some of you may recall that Roy ran again in 78 and was defeated by Nancy Kassebaum. Although I did not care too much for Bob Dole and could not stand Nancy Kassebaum, electing Bill Roy would have been a disaster. His beliefs would make most European socialists blush. I know the media believes this election year is 1974 all over again and while I believe this is going to be a tough year for Republicans, their loses are not going to be anywhere near what they suffered in that first post Watergate election only three months after Nixon resigned.
It does look as though K-street Jim is going to make a credible run for Pat Roberts Senate seat, mostly because of the huge sums of money the Democrats have to spend this year. Fortunately Pat seems to be well aware of the danger and is taking nothing for granted. He is running hard and should prevail in November.
Let’s hope that Slattery can send Brown-nose Pat into retirement.
Sluttery is another Washington insider who is in it to get his pig snout in the trough, and the Dems hope for 1968, and we know what happened in Chicago in 1968.
Bill Roy’s campaign was the first I ever worked. I believed in him then, and I believe him now.
Think how different, for the better, America would be had he prevailed.
He’s a good man. And so is his daughter Randi, one of the Kansas people on the DNC. I just wish she wouldnt take her orders from governor “leadership”.
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Roberts will get the pro-life endorsement, this time around, of course.
However, for you liberals who want to sing the praises of Jim Slattery:
Against Kassebaum, Slattery got the Pro-Life vote.
Slattery is not all bad.
Slattery is a socialist prolifer turned lobbyist.
Slattery would be far better than Bill Roy.
Thankfully, we will not have to deal with either a Senator Roy OR a Senator Slattery.
Roberts will do just fine!
Breaking news on NBC!
“A near fatal accident was avoided today, thanks to the quick actions of a crack team of paramedics. Senator Pat Roberts (R – Whitewash) was saved from near certain death after President George WMD Bush (R – Idiot) stopped suddenly and Roberts head was violently thrust up Bush’s ass, as the Senator was following a bit too closely.
Paramedics used the ‘Jaws of Life’ to extract Roberts’ head from Bush’s (back door) and both men were pronounced ready for more action at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
Roberts later compared the ordeal as being equivalent to the experience of Jonas in the Belly of the Whale, saying ‘it was damned dark in there and there was the smell of rotting fish.’
Bush was unavailable for further comment, but Barney, the First Dog, did express his anger by peeing on the leg of the Senator.”
Check back on NBC or MSNBC for futher developments.
Ksfarmgrrl: You mentioned above that Bill Roy’s campaign for the U.S. Senate against Bob Dole in 1974 was “the first (you) ever worked.” You also admired Bill Roy’s daughter, Randi.
Interesting and kind of coincidental.
In that same 1974 campaign, I worked as a volunteer for Bob Dole in Johnson County. As I recall, I raised conributions, put up signs and so forth. During that time, I met Bob Dole’s daughter, Robin Dole, who attended political functions with her father. I am curious now if Robin was born in Kansas or Washington D.C.
I visited with Senator Robert Dole a number of times both in Kansas and in Washington. Most recently, I spoke to him briefly at a “Dole roast” and a “book signing”, both in Wichita. I always found him to be a witty engaging conversationalist who really loves Kansas. I think he sometimes receives unfair criticism from his experience running with Gerald Ford for V.P and President respectively in 1980. Robert Dole is now roughly age 84 and still remembers names and incidents like no one else I know.
Of course, there are lots of forks in the road for everyone, especially for politicians. Looking back in retrospect, too bad some how the succession was different to have avoided our present disaster for the U.S. and the world, George W. Bush … and I’m a moderate Republican.
WSClark, Question. Are you a natural born idiot, or is it something you have to work at? How funny would your stupid little post be if you substituted Barry Obama for Senator Roberts and George Soros for George Bush?
Hank–
Since your wife is an M.D. and this is a thread on health-care, it seems perfectly appropriate.
Regular–
That wasn’t nice. Don’t make us have to put you in “time out” again . . .
Chris from MadTown shows once again that they can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
Ya know, Wink, I always heard that until Bill Clinton, NO ONE could remember names and faces like Dole. They said he could meet you once and recall your name after twenty years and also your face, which likely changed a lot over 20 years. Conventional wisdom is that this amazing ability to recall names and faces is a trait shared by all of the most successful long-term politicians.
I bet you could really confuse him though if you just said “I’m a Bender from Russell”. The file would be too large for ANY brain to process!
heheheheh. BTW… My Mom was a “Bender from Russell”.
Ksfarmgrrl: Are you also claiming relationship to the infamous Bender family near Cherryvale, Kansas? You probably know its unknown where they went as they fled from Cherryvale back in the 1880’s. If Colonel York didn’t shorten their flight out of Cherryvale considerably, perhaps they resettled in Russell, Kansas.
Yes, Bob Dole has a remarkable memory.
I would have to say that Joan Finney was pretty darn good, herself.
I bumped into Joan Finney shortly before she passed away.
She was pumping her own gas, in Topeka.
She looked over the pump and said, “I know you, give me a few seconds, okay?”
And then, she rattled off several things about my life and ended by saying my name.
I had talked to her once, briefly, several years previous to that chance encounter.
Bob Dole can often amaze you with the same sharp memory.
CapnAmerica
Posted June 22, 2008 at 11:06 am | Permalink
Chris from MadTown shows once again that they can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
Sorry crappy, But you couldn’t be more wrong. I am constantly subjected on this web site to having everything I believe and hold dear held up to ridicule and scorn. Don’t sit there and tell me I can’t take it. As for WSC’s post on this thread at 9:52PM on 6/21, that may be the absolute dumbest thing anybody ever said on a blog that seems to excel in stupidity. Sorry but when my “dumba#* alarm goes off like it did on that one, I have to respond
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