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This will be suspect coming from a moderate Republican and financial conservative. But I believe the federal government must provide a basic health plan to all CITIZENS somewhat similar to Medicare. Citizens could enroll in supplemental plans to augment their basic government provided health plan.

As the Virginia governor said in the lead-in paragraph, he is ashamed that people lower on the financial totem pole pay through their taxes for his health insurance, for the health insurance of U.S. senators and congressmen and for that matter for health insurance for virtually all government employees. Also when consumers buy a can of Campbell’s beef soup, they pay for health insurance for executives and employees of grocery stores, transportation companies and Campbell’s soup itself.

And for the people who don’t have health insurance, its said they merely go to emergency rooms of most hospitals for care.

A RELATED SITUATION IS: many employees feel stuck in a current employment situation rather than improving themselves and society in the process by staying in a job rather than moving upward and onward.

HEALTH INSURANCE AND HEALTHCARE COSTS are the rogue elephant in American life. Costs are so expensive and loosely applied that a person or family can be bankrupted on a moments notice if struck by unexpected sickness or accident.

Sorry, common sense says that a form of government healthcare must be provided to all citizens rather than continue the totally unfair situation we now have.

Right on J Wink…what you say is so true. Proudman, at least socialized medicine is better than nothing. Too many can’t afford even basic healthcare and others are stuck in jobs they hate because they need the insurance benefits. In a country as rich as ours, it’s a shame that affordable health care isn’t available to everyone. The middle working class which is the foundation of our country deserves more than that.

A person in this country shouldn’t have to fight for the right to have their cancer treated. I run into that situation way too often. Too many times insurance companies refuses to pay for it. And now that Medicare has allowed the private insurers to take over the drug program, many seniors are having to fight to get the treatment they need to survive. It’s a damn shame in a country like ours that this has been allowed to happen. The corporations are getting richer and more greedy, and the middle class is getting screwed.

“Mary_Caruso” –

Every civilized nation in the world eventually comes to grips with the reality that some things are more important — to everyone — than individual profit.

But the profiteers have a lot of power. For-profit health insurance is the most dire situation facing America today. For-profit fuel might be next. (If you live in San Diego, you can go to Tijuana and get gasoline for $1.93 a gallon, thanks to Mexico’s nationalized oil industry.)

Funny, isn’t it, that the people who actually work for Mexico’s oil industry earn fine livings and drill and transport and refine petroleum even if they can’t afford private jets and vacation homes in Aspen?

Interesting, isn’t it, how every civilized nation in the world can provide health care to people (at the very least, on the level of clean drinking water and sanitary sewers) without jacking up prices just to pay quarterly dividends to stockholders?

Before there were corporations, the world’s economy operated pretty well under the mercantile model. The corporate model took its place. And guess what, it was an improvement! (A hundred and sixty years ago.)

Corporate domination has played the rules (even written them) of civilization past its ideals.

If everyone gets health care and a fair price for fuel, nothing would prevent you from cooking a better burger or building a better mousetrap. If you write a book or star in a movie or can throw a football, the market value of your contribution to society will not be infringed.

But some basics in life are no longer market-based. They are essential to civilization itself.

How ironic that the political leanings of those who decry “Darwinism” are the biggest social-Darwinists of all.

Monkeyhawk should learn how to use the internet before spouting out such nonsense. Sorry bud, but I have family and friends in San Diego, and I can tell you straight up that gas ain’t selling for $1.93 in Tijuana. As of March, it was selling at $2.82, and I can assure you that it hasn’t gone down since then. Border residents can save 25% on fuel south of the border, but 25% isn’t worth the hassle of waiting hours to get back into the country.

Economies operated pretty well under the mercantile model? Really? Is that why nearly every nation on the planet has moved to the market model?

Gasoline is no more required for survival than is beer. If you don’t like to spend how much you’re spending for gasoline, the fix is real simple. Move closer to where you work. If you’re not willing to do that, stfu.

There is nothing wrong with America or its economy. Well, there actually is one thing wrong…too many idiots calling for governmental controls. You people must be retarded if you think there is a government on this planet capable of doing a better job of controlling prices than the market can. If you liberal Dems would just keep your dirty hands out of the market, we would all be much better off.

Conservatives…we work hard so you don’t have to.

Welcome to the Wichita Eagle – Kansas Campaign Headquarters for Obama.

WS if you would do your own research on the economy and not trust the MSM to do it for you then you and the other sheep in that 81%?? figure wouldn’t see the wall you could find the window.

The government will never be able to run a system as large as nationalized health care. That a proven fact. They can’t even run a mid sized restaurant profitably.

Where do you think the shortfall is going to come from? Eventually the working public will say enough and start feeding from the same plate the ‘middle class’ non insured are eating from. Where do the increased taxes come from then?

Obama is for change. Well I’ll talk to you in two years. See if you like his change.

“About 81% of the country disagrees with you…”

Then why are the polls so close between Obama and McCain?
I call shenanigans.

“Then why are the polls so close between Obama and McCain?”

One, the polls are not that close, but there are still Republicans that will vote for McCain simply because he “says” he is not George WMD Bush.

By the way, Fleet, a while back you stated that the War on Iraq was not THAT unpopular – so – just how popular do you think the War is?

WS I won’t go away. I intend to have some fun with you in about two years after Obama’s ‘change’ has had time to mimic Carters’ change.

The libs look at Obama as the savior of our great nation and thinking men and women know it just ain’t so.

Until then I will watch the libs run against Bush – again. The libs can’t even get the candidates right.

“Until then I will watch the libs run against Bush – again.”

Well, since McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time, of course we are going to run against John WMD McBush.

Jeez, we’re not idiots.

“WS I won’t go away.”

Damn, you had my hopes up with that “in two years” talk.

“This will be suspect coming from a moderate Republican and financial conservative. But I believe the federal government must provide a basic health plan to all CITIZENS…”
—————-

Isn’t EVERYONE more fiscally responsible than our elected officials? Aren’t the majority of us moderates on many issues? I think the “system” is well served by keeping us divided. I also think most of us are ready to end that sham and get to work together.

Your statement doesn’t sound anything but reasonable to me. Our current health care system can’t accurately be called less than BIG BUSINESS with an eye to profits. The “care” part is missing. Insurance companies make record profits, health care professionals have their hands tied too often, and we pay in every way for this lack of care.

I hope (there’s THAT word again) we can put aside the “R” and “D” designations in order to realize neither is what they used to be and neither represents WE THE PEOPLE well. It’s time we elect people who see beyond the meaningless labels.

lindainks55
Posted June 10, 2008 at 11:37 am | Permalink
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I hope (there’s THAT word again) we can put aside the “R” and “D” designations in order to realize neither is what they used to be and neither represents WE THE PEOPLE well. It’s time we elect people who see beyond the meaningless labels.”

Amen to that

I wish I could have socialized healthcare like McCain has had all his life. America has three systems of health care. There’s the socialized version at the VA. There’s the single payer at Medicaid. Then there’s the capitalistic one which most have, hope you are lucky enough to afford the cost and luckier still to not be denied health care even if you have insurance.

But America is a failed state, it can’t provide health care to all it’s people. That’s the effect of Reaganomics for you.

“I wish I could have socialized healthcare like McCain has had all his life.”

You could have. No need to wish. You chose not to.

Predestined http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/06/return-taxpayers%e2%80%99-favor-on-health-care/#comment-366248

I am part of a voluntary agreement with a health insurance company. They, voluntarily, agree to risk having to pay a large sum for my health care and I agree to send them a comparatively small amount each month. It is not designed to be a zero-sum game or a savings account. I don’t mind if they make money on the deal. As long as they are there to pay on their end of the agreement it’s all OK.

Irresponsible people who only seek care from an emergency room do add to the overall cost of health care in the US. Rather than rewarding them with an expanded free ride we need to hold them responsible for the costs they cause. That and some tort reform would reduce health care costs considerably.

“No veteran who has served his country is rewarded as well as they should be. When you have given as much to your country as these men and women have then you to will be given lifelong healthcare paid for by the government and country you fought to defend.”

The sad thing is a lot of veterans don’t even get that. A lot of recruitment comes from rural areas that don’t have access to VA facilities. So the veteran may have to travel far or deal with the capitalist system at the closest medical facility. Of course if we had universal health care this wouldn’t be a problem.

But you have politicians like McCain who say the veterans don’t deserve the sort of medical care and free education that he received. They all can’t be sons of admirals I suppose even though fleetwood says we all had the choice to be sons of admirals.

American_Way: Except for Turkey, Mexico and the US, all idustrialized/western nations have universal major medical health coverage and at a lot less cost, paid for by direct taxation(premiums), indirect taxation or a combination of both. That coverge, note I did not say care but coverage ie. insurance, produces results that must be envied. What is “socialized medicine” anyway, other than a Regan throw-away line? Are cops, firefighters the armed forces socialized? Those 3 entities are designed and fiscally supported to offer what universal coverage does, timely, effective, responsive care when needed, and not affected by a citizen’s ability to pay. Personally I think it would be a helluva wrench to introduce and perhaps folks believe any government cannot deliver the coverage within acceptable boundaries. Maybe that’s the rub.

“For 285,000,000 Americans, who have healthcare, we do not want you to screw with our healthcare.”

For one thing, your numbers are wrong…and for another thing, don’t speak for everyone who has healthcare.
I’ve always had healthcare..and I had to fight tooth and nail for my benefits when I got cancer. Just like my patients now who have worked all their lives and paid into their insurance policies, only to be denied when it comes time to collect because they had teh nerve to get sick.
Insurance companies only care about their bottom line…and if people die, they couldn’t care less.

“Has anyone ever thought that medicine is too high because of the insurance industry and all the loans and government handout?”

One of the main reasons medicine is so high is that drug companies pay billions to advertise their drugs, provide perks to doctors to prescribe their medicatons, and have the lobbyists in their pockets to ensure things don’t change. Then they lie and say it’s because they have to do the research for new drugs…when much of it is simply changing a molecule or two so they can market the “new” drug under a “new” name and make millions on it.

We already have “socialized medicine” in a way now.

I had insurance coverage for my whole life up until a few years ago. So, even though I was for national health care at the time, I didn’t know just how bad it was.

If you have insurance, you pay your little (but increasing) co pay and the insurance company pays the rest. At a DEEPLY discounted, group rate.

But if you don’t have insurance, you pay UNBELIEVABLE inflated costs.

So the private system IS subsidized. On the backs of those who can least afford it.

As long as they are there to pay on their end of the agreement it’s all OK.

And if the refuse to pay? And they can, if they so choose. What then, ProudMan? Will you pitch a fit or will you take it like a proud man?

I think that President Obama ought to really reconsider Hillary’s plan. Although I liked him better as a candidate, I liked her better on this issue. First of all, not only are Senators and Congress covered by GOVERNMENT health care, so are millions of elderly (Medicare), poor people (Medicaid), children (SCHIP), veterans (VA) not to mention the MILLIONS now employed by the government or in the military on active duty. Even prisoners are covered by GOVRNMENT medical care now! I would say that probably 1/3rd of people are on GOVERNMENT medical care, 1/3rd of us on private medical care and another 1/3rd not insured. So HERE is the DEAL- the 1/3rd that are on private medical care- mostly provided by employers- are carrying the load for the other 2/3rds. We pay taxes to pay for those on GOVERNMENT medical care and we pay ever higher insurance premiums for those who show up at the ER with no money and no insurance. And let’s be honest- we do not have the guts to leave people dying outside the ER because they cannot pay. So the only honest and best way to deal with this is to have EVERYBODY paying into the system.

Another patient had long term care insutance that he has paid on for years…when he became totally disabled and needed an aide to come into his home and care for him (which was what they promised to do if he ever needed it), they denied him and benefits…he had to go to the insurance commissioner and threaten a lawsuit before he was ablr to get his benefits…now he has an aide 8 hours a day so he won’t have to go to a nursing home. These are the games insurance companies play..they love to take your money, but make you fight for what they promise to do when you sigh up for the policy.

If not nationalized health care, we need more oversight of the private insurers so they can’t deny services that a person signs up to recieve. And they shouldn’t be able to deny insurance to someone because they have a pre-existing condition. I read the other day that private insurers were startig to deny insurance to women who have had C-sections.
It’s all about the money and the bottom line..not about providing healthcare.

Don’t worry, Mary Caruso. If your hero Barack HUSSEIN Obama is president, you’ll have all the socialized medicine you’ll ever want. It will only take you six months to see a physician, it will only take you five years to treat cancer, and it will cost $350 for an aspirin. You want that? You want failed socialized medicine? Go to Canada and see how great socialized medicine works.

ICTisInferior, care to back any of that up with some facts? Maybe some links?

Jeez, I hope you don’t have any children. It would be a shame for you to taint the gene pool.

When, as Mary points out, insurers are refusing to pay for treatments that will save your life, or cancel policies when the insured is diagnosed with something expensive, then I think we can say that capitalist medicine has failed miserably.
So, what is the solution? A single payer plan that cuts the insurance companies out of the healthcare equation altogether, paid for from taxpayer funds and applied equally to all Americans, rich and poor alike. If the rich and powerful have to live with the same system as the poor, you can be sure that the system will be good.
A single universal payer plan can negotiate with pharmaceutical corporations and hospitals from a position of market strength to get the best care for everybody.
Currently poor people who need medical care are often left with the only option being the emergency room that is required to treat everyone who walks in the door. This is the most expensive form of treatment, and the taxpayers are already footing much of that bill, and the insured pay the rest in higher premiums for those $17 aspirins. Most of those people could be treated just as well or better in a doctor’s office for much less money.
Those who scream bloody murder about “socialized medicine” would be told that we not only already have it, but it’s the most expensive form possible, and if they want to cut the costs, they’ll have to sign on to a single payer universal plan to save money. Remember that while taxes may be somewhat higher, you (or your employer) won’t be paying health insurance premiums. It will no longer be a union issue, and make negotiations that much simpler. And if you lose your job, you won’t be without health insurance while you look for another. It will also simplify admission to the emergency room since you won’t have to produce a current insurer’s card at a moment’s notice.
Doctor’s offices will be streamlined since they won’t need so many employees to file claims with all the various companies, each with it’s own forms, quirks and rules. Each claim would be filed on the same form and subject to the same rules.
I realize that “socialized medicine” will eliminate the threat that the rich use against the middle class to keep them in line. And it will anger those who are convinced that they deserve better medical care than their neighbors. We’ll just have to live with that, and they can take their own advice and suck it up!

“One of my patients last week (who is on Medicare) was told that her chemo would be only be 50% covered..leaving her with a $3,000 copay per month. She had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get her Medicare drug presciption program ”

ANd we want MORE government health care?

Thanks Mary, for the vote of confidence. You’re the real authority here on healthcare.

“but there are corporate lobbyists that will make sure things will remain business as usual.”

I’m sure they will try, but we’ll have to remind our new president and the democrats in congress of their promises this election season, and howl bloody murder if they falter. This is the best chance to get heathcare done right that we’ll ever get!

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