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Today is the best day ever!
Good Morning Wichita!!
May the Sun rise to warm your day!
May your day swell to warm someone!
May someone warm you with a smile!
May a smile raise your spirit!
May your spirit soar on the wings of the Day!
So mote it be!!
Today is the first day of the rest of your life!
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a Day.
Teach a man to fish, and he wont ever come back home! Ooops… Thats Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime!
When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot, and hang on!
And by all means, When life gives you lemons, yell and scream at the delivery boy, and tell him you said lemonade, by Gawd.. Lemonade!!
:-D
Teach a man to fish, and he destroys the aquatic ecosystem, then his six billion descendents starve to death.
A critic is a legless man who teaches running.
- Channing Pollock
I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.
– Clarence Darrow
Teach a man to fish for sure — Just dont take him to Bass Pro Shops to buy him the basic equipment… Take him to WalMart… lots cheaper there!! And whatever ya do, dont tell him that Beer stays put real good in the bottom of the boat!! Tell him that, and he wont ever get any work done at home, or otherwise… Just teach him to fish!!
Big Coal Fires Back Over James Hansen’s Criminal Complaint
Reports Revkin of the NYT:
Big Coal is firing back at James Hansen, NASA’s top climate expert, who on Monday told a House committee on energy and climate that he thought top executives of coal and oil companies should be tried for “crimes against humanity and nature.”
Below is a note sent to me by Vic Svec, who you heard from here earlier in the year in relation to efforts by Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, a rising star in the Democratic Party, to deny permits for two proposed coal-burning power plants because of their potential contribution to global warming. Mr. Svec is a senior vice president for Peabody, which is the largest private coal producer in the world (to get an idea of their volume, and mission, visit peabodyenergy.com and watch the amazing coal-sales “ticker” at the bottom reel off tons of coal sold per second). Here’s what Mr. Svec said about Dr. Hansen’s assertions:
1. His use of Holocaust analogies is outrageous and demeaning. It cheapens the dialogue and invites ridicule.
2. The suggestion that a dissemination of ideas be criminalized — coming from a government employee no less — does hearken back to World War II. It is stunning and should be pounced upon by everyone who advocates free speech, from the ACLU and talk radio complex to yourself.
3. Blaming big oil and big coal for the broad array of opinions about climate change is disingenuous. If he would imprison those who don’t march in lockstep with his views, the jails would be very, very big. It would include thousands of scientists and university professors and the likes of the president of the Czech Republic, a former founder of Greenpeace and the former founder of The Weather Channel.
4. Speaking for Peabody, our time and energy are being devoted to satisfying an energy-hungry world’s need for coal and advancing the commercialization of carbon capture and storage technology. Among other initiatives, we’re proud to have reduced our greenhouse gas emissions intensity by more than 30% since 1990; to be the initial developer of a supercritical coal plant that will emit 15% lower carbon dioxide than existing plants; to be a founding member of the FutureGen Alliance; to be a part of Australia’s low-carbon Coal 21 program; and to be the only non-Chinese partner in China’s zero-emissions GreenGen project.
In short, while some are interested in sound bites, we’ll keep going about the serious work of providing clean coal, energy solutions and environmental improvement.
Don’t worry, we at the government will handle your child’s education. We have over 100 years of experience in this subject matter.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,371901,00.html
Give a man a fish, he’ll eat for a day.
Give a man a gun and he’ll steal his own damned fish.
Great cartoon today Richard Crowson! Very insightful
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/cartoons/
More straight talk from John Sydney McBush >>>
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/325.html
Drill as I say, Not as I Do
by Lene Johansen
Environmentalists seldom practice what they preach. Al Gore’s home uses enough electricity to power a small town. And the National Audubon Society permits oil drilling in wildlife sanctuaries.
The most emotive argument against drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is conservation. The barren coastal plane that is the object of a fierce political battle in Washington is home to 42 mammal species, 36 species of fish, and over 160 species of birds.
Environmental groups such as the National Audubon Society say it will devastate the wildlife in the area. NAS owns several properties in other wildlife refuges. And they permit drilling on their own land. One of these properties is in the Paul J. Rainey Wildlife Sanctuary in Vermillion County, Louisiana And the other in the Bernard N. Baker Sanctuary in Calhoun County, Michigan.
“40 percent of the loss of wetlands in Louisiana is impact from oil drilling,” says Barry Kohl, the President of Louisiana Audubon Council. “The drilling of oil and gas in Louisiana is from an age when the wetlands were considered wastelands.” He says comparing drilling in ANWR to drilling done in Louisiana is like comparing to extremes that are totally disconnected. The arctic wetland is much more vulnerable because the growing season there is less than 3 months out of the year the Louisiana vegetation has a year long growing season.
The drilling in the Rainey Sanctuary dates back to 1958 when Audubon permitted for 12 wells. Two of these wells were never drilled and another eight where dry. The two remaining wells were plugged up in 1967 and 1979. The mineral rights leases expired in 1999 and Audubon has no intent to renew them.
Edmond Mouton, a biologist with the Louisiana State Wildlife Refuge which is adjacent to the Rainey Sanctuary, says that the drilling in the Marsh Island Wildlife Refuge there has been strict drilling protocols since the 1950’s in order to preserve the integrity of the refuge.
“Louisiana is riddled with oil and gas canals,” he says. “In certain areas drilling is only permitted in certain seasons as to not disturb wildlife during key times and we minimize the use of seismic surveying.”
In addition to this, the state only permits lighter drilling equipment and force the oil extractors to use directional drilling from existing canals to avoid stress on important habitats.
“This is sufficient to secure the integrity of the refuge,” says Mouton.
The two wells that were drilled in the Baker Sanctuary with permission of the Michigan Audubon Society were started in the 1970’s. The first hole, well 16-1 was dry. However the second well, which was drilled at a slant from the dry hole was successful and extraction started in 1981.
cont’d at
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27206#continueA
“Give a man a fish, he’ll eat for a day.
Give a man a gun and he’ll steal his own damned fish.”
MH- Very good!
Attending Wichita Pride Parade or Festival on Sunday? Tell Bruce McKinney his PAC report to the Ethics Commission is late!
http://kansasmeadowlark.com/2008/06/26/attending-wichita-pride-parade/
Cosmos,
Before you bother responding to my father today, I hope you remember our talk last night.
The debate is over.
Why are you wasting your time still trying to debate with us meaningless posters when you could be using that time to save the world?
The 2nd Adm. Lives!
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/
“Answering a 127-year old constitutional question, the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to have a gun, at least in one’s home. The Court, splitting 5-4, struck down a District of Columbia ban on handgun possession.”
Speaking of having a gun at home, anyone see the Chicago incident where the 3 yr. old was playing with a loaded gun and killed himself?
And, that Ky. worker sure had a gun conveniently available.
MoDo on Rove’s latest B.S.:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/opinion/25dowd.html?em&ex=1214625600&en=8368c115b6d559d0&ei=5087
Phantom
Posted June 26, 2008 at 9:23 am | Permalink
Speaking of having a gun at home, anyone see the Chicago incident where the 3 yr. old was playing with a loaded gun and killed himself?
—–
As a parent, if you let your kid play with a 12′ alligator you will get a similar result.
Phantom
Posted June 26, 2008 at 9:23 am | Permalink
Speaking of having a gun at home, anyone see the Chicago incident where the 3 yr. old was playing with a loaded gun and killed himself?
And, that Ky. worker sure had a gun conveniently available.
——
Bad parent(s) & a Kook.
True ANTI. You also shouldn’t let your kid drink the stuff you keep under the sink, or stick things into the electric plug in.
Or play with the electric hedge trimmer while it’s plugged in, especially near the pool, or in the driveway behind the car, next to the where the neighbor’s put bull is tied up. .
Hmmmm….
US Supreme Court rules the 2nd Amendment protects INDIVIDUAL gun rights.
Wow, imagine that. The Bill of Rights applies to People.
Oh, thanks Steven! That had some good ones!
“Rove and Co. are nervous because they see that Obama, in rejecting public financing, is not going to be a chump, like some past Democratic candidates.”
“But even as the Republicans limn him as John Kerry, as someone who is too haughty and too “foreign,” Obama is determined not to repeat what Kerry thinks was a big mistake: not having enough money to compete against the Republicans in 2004.”
And, my favorite:
“It looks as if Rove is on the verge of realizing his dream of creating a permanent position for the Republicans.
Unfortunately for him, it’s in the minority.”
We see and hear the nervousness (and fear!) right here every day. Plus, have you noticed the increased grumpiness from Republicans??
Come on WE, show your true Marxist colors, and give us a topic with your opinion about how bad this close this 5-4 decision was for Government.
Disenting opinion:
In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens wrote that the majority “would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons.” http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,372041,00.html
So, the “tools available” to the Government to “regulate” the People are LIMITED.
Wow, the Power of Government is NOT Unlimited. Imagine what an all-powerful Government would be like.
The SCOTUS Opinion today is a GREAT VICTORY FOR THE PEOPLE!!! And a GREAT LOSS to those who want Government to Control Everything!
Wasn’t this the decision everyone, from every political philosophy, predicted?
Maybe now those who have become most grumpy can smile and loosen up and be a little more pleasant!
Be happy!
Bush has decried the N.K. is no longer a part of the Axis of Evil!
I’m not surprised, a handgun ban I’d think should be illegal. However, many other questions were left unaswered, now why did they choose not to rule on those?
Damn you guys and your fishing talk. I have four hours of mowing to do, and I’d much rather be fishing.
Reminds me of a couple of songs. :)
I love the country song about “too hot for golf, too hot to fish, and too cold at home”. heheheh. Who can afford these days to have the a/c on enough to make it “cold at home”.
And of course, we’ll all “Whistle and go fishin’ in heaven”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzdEQOHL_I
And speaking of bass boats, reminds me of the guy who placed a personal ad seeking a woman, with various criteria, one of which is that she own a bass boat.
“Please send picture of boat”.
heheheheheheheheh!
I can only presume that our more conservative bloggers will agree with the most recent Supreme Court decision.
Are the justices “Legislating from the bench” on this decision? (sarcasm off)
Grumpy repubs? Naaaw. They aint grumpy.
They’re just plain mean most of the time, writerdog excepted.
LLTVET, they’ve seemed so very grouchy of late. Will they find this news pleasing and be able to smile? Will they look and find parts of it to criticize and still be pouty? Who cares.
…and speaking of the Dawgster….
Where has he been? Playing guitar under a shade tree? Whistling and fishing? Working on his great American novel?
Linda, could the minutes please reflect that our esteemed colleague Writerdog is missed when he’s not here?
I’m not sure of the scope of this decision. Pretty much limited to the right to ‘keep’ arms. Scalia stressed the ruling had no bearing on bans in place against carrying concealed.
I guess we’ll have to fight another case to affirm the 2nd amendment right to ‘bear’ arms.
Dog and Vaughn. Probably many others we don’t have the opportunity to hear from. We get the worst of the bunch. Oh well. If that’s all they got…
Damned acteeevist judges. Didnt they over rule the will of the people, as reflected through their elected representatives?
I HATE when they do that! :)
Oh yeah Linda. Vaughn is greatly missed. He is the ORIGINAL voice of reason.
He posted sometime recently about having worked sooo many hours. Guess that means he is now gainfully employed (knew it wouldn’t take him long!) and he is definitely missed, but we’ll keep the light on.
Seems like CF has been a long time gone too. I’m gonna be so jealous if he is in Austin. Or Seattle.
Possibly last chance to stop the FISA bill. . .if your senator is on this list, give them a call (though I’m not sure why Leahy and Specter are on there–they’ve both stated their opposition):
* Bayh (202) 224-5623
* Carper (202) 224-2441
* Obama (202) 224-2854
* Inouye (202) 224-3934
* Johnson (202) 224-5842
* Landrieu (202)224-5824
* McCaskill (202) 224-6154
* Mikulski (202) 224-4654
* Nelson (FL) (202) 224-5274
* Clinton (202) 224-4451
* Nelson (NE) (202) 224-6551
* Pryor (202) 224-2353
* Salazar (202) 224-5852
* Specter (202) 224-4254
* Feinstein (202) 224-3841
* Webb (202) 224-4024
* Warner (202) 224-2023
* Snowe (202) 224-5344
* Collins (202) 224-2523
* Sununu (202) 224-2841
* Stevens (202) 224-3004
* Byrd (202) 224-3954
* Lincoln (202)224-4843
* Reid (202) 224-3542
* Coleman (202) 224-5641
* Durbin (202) 224-2152
* Smith (202) 224-
* Stabenow (202) 224-4822
* Kohl (202) 224-5653
* Leahy (202) 224-4242
* Schumer (202) 224-6542
http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/24/fisa-call-your-wobbly-fisa-senator/
Just a reminder: the degree to which this bill allows general surveillance of communications inside the U.S. is unprecedented–the caveats and supposed minimization requirements are rendered impotent by weasel words throughout it.
“General warrants”–search warrants that were left blank as to name and place, to be filled in later–motivated the creation of the Fourth Amendment in the first place.
The SCOTUS Opinion today is a GREAT VICTORY FOR THE PEOPLE!!!
But by a NARROW 5-4 margin. Obama will appoint very Liberal judges to the Supreme Court. Then they will reverse this decision.
Obama does NOT support the right of a person to own a gun in his or her own home. AND of course, Obama supported the Washington DC gun ban.
http://www.nrapvf.org/News/Article.aspx?ID=286
To understand Barack Obama on the Second Amendment, you have to know about the clash of character between the then-Chicago state senator and an ordinary citizen who exercised his right to armed self-defense in violation of a local gun ban.
That citizen was a 52-year-old resident of Wilmette, Illinois, who, on Dec. 28, 2003, woke to find that, during the night, his home had been invaded by a career criminal; a thief who stole household items, keys and the homeowner’s car.
John McCain issued the following statement regarding Thursday’s U.S. Supreme Court ruling striking down Washington, D.C.’s handgun ban:
“Today’s decision is a landmark victory for Second Amendment freedom in the United States. For this first time in the history of our Republic, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms was and is an individual right as intended by our Founding Fathers. I applaud this decision as well as the overturning of the District of Columbias ban on handguns and limitations on the ability to use firearms for self-defense.
“Unlike Senator Obama, who refused to join me in signing a bipartisan amicus brief, I was pleased to express my support and call for the ruling issued today. Today’s ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller makes clear that other municipalities like Chicago that have banned handguns have infringed on the constitutional rights of Americans. Unlike the elitist view that believes Americans cling to guns out of bitterness, today’s ruling recognizes that gun ownership is a fundamental right — sacred, just as the right to free speech and assembly.
“This ruling does not mark the end of our struggle against those who seek to limit the rights of law-abiding citizens. We must always remain vigilant in defense of our freedoms. But today, the Supreme Court ended forever the specious argument that the Second Amendment did not confer an individual right to keep and bear arms.”
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/26/raw-data-mccain-on-supreme-courts-ruling-on-dc-handgun-ban/
So max, does this mean you can stop being afraid all time? Or are you just addicted to the fear?
“But today, the Supreme Court ended forever the specious argument that the Second Amendment did not confer an individual right to keep and bear arms.”
——-
Well there ya go! It’s a done deal! Now can you celebrate? McCain said you don’t have to continue to worry like you thought you needed to do.
Be happy! Go grab a gun and go to the shooting range or whatever floats your boat. It’s a day to celebrate!
Here’s a great post about the c and a (capitulation and appeasement) democrats. You have to scroll down a ways to get to Russ Feingold’s comments.
I SO wish Russ had run for president. But then, I guess he’d rather DO something than BE something.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
How ironic that mcsame loves him some second amendment. But the first and fourth? Eh, not so much…
““This ruling does not mark the end of our struggle against those who seek to limit the rights of law-abiding citizens. We must always remain vigilant in defense of our freedoms.”
Yeah, I LOVE the “struggle” mcsame and his buddies put up against the government spying on it’s citizens.
…and dont even get me started on immunity for the telecoms.
Ya gotta love the ballsiness of corporate america though. If they break the law and violate the constitution, they just start passing out cash until they get retroactive immunity.
Such a deal we have for you today…
Obama, the LIAR, changes his opinion on the DC Gun Ban AFTER the Supreme Court decision.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/obama-camp-disa.html
Obama Camp Disavows Last Year’s ‘Inartful’ Statement on D.C. Gun Law
June 26, 2008 7:35 AM
ABC News’ Teddy Davis and Alexa Ainsworth Report: With the Supreme Court poised to rule on Washington, D.C.’s, gun ban, the Obama campaign is disavowing what it calls an “inartful” statement to the Chicago Tribune last year in which an unnamed aide characterized Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., as believing that the DC ban was constitutional.
“That statement was obviously an inartful attempt to explain the Senator’s consistent position,” Obama spokesman Bill Burton tells ABC News.
Hasn’t McCain at least until he ran for president proposed a litany of anti gin proposals?
Paine, there is an UGLY rumor that he prefers vodka martinis.
Dirty, no less!
HEHEHEHEHEH. Sorry. Couldnt resist!
Max, Try harder! You can do better than “an unnamed aide.” Use “the google,” push the buttons more firmly so they’ll bring better results!
Saturday, April 5, 2008
Obama’s “Evolving” Position on the 2nd Amendment
http://theeprovocateur.blogspot.com/2008/04/obamas-evolving-position-on-2nd.html
Heheheheheh Linda!
Isnt “an unnamed aide” the same person they wont accept as a cite regarding mcsame and the c word?
IOKIYAAR
DANCE Obama, DANCE!
Obama’s Second-Amendment Dance
By Robert D. Novak
Monday, April 7, 2008; Page A17
Barack Obama, who informs campaign audiences that he taught constitutional law for 10 years, might be expected to weigh in on the historic Second Amendment case before the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices are pondering whether the 1976 District of Columbia law effectively prohibiting personal gun ownership in the nation’s capital is constitutional. But Obama has not stated his position.
Obama, disagreeing with the D.C. government and gun control advocates, declares that the Second Amendment’s “right of the people to keep and bear arms” applies to individuals, not just the “well regulated militia” in the amendment. In the next breath, he asserts that this constitutional guarantee does not preclude local “common sense” restrictions on firearms. Does the draconian prohibition in Washington fit that description? My attempts to get an answer have proved unavailing. The front-running Democratic presidential candidate is doing the gun dance.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/06/AR2008040601652.html
Yeah, but she won’t understand that so don’t try to point out facts and reasonable thinking. Now she has brought the second blog entry… Busy, busy when she should be celebrating!
DC Gun Ban ruling by the SCOTUS……… totally expected decision…………… wonder why it took 32 years……………. yawn.
Obama, the Constituional Law expert, was not familiar with the facts of the DC case?
Funny, the vast majority of Congress WAS familiar enough with the case to sign an Amicus Brief to the US Supreme Court opposing the DC Gun Ban!
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/19/205429/434
Bob Casey: Obama Would Probably Find DC Handgun Bill Constitutional
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 07:54:29 PM EST
At Wednesday’s debate, Barack Obama wouldn’t say what his position is on the DC law banning handguns. He dodged, saying he wasn’t familiar with the facts of the case.
Of course, in November, his campaign told the Chicago Tribune he supporteed the ban. (Chicago Tribune November 20, 2007.)
But the campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he “…believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.”
Tonight, Obama surrogate Bob Casey was on Lou Dobbs. Dobbs asked Casey whether Obama would support or oppose the DC handgun ban. (No link, I typed from his answer.)
Bob Casey: He would probably be a supporter, as he has been in the U.S. Senate and the Illinois legislature, for various restrictions on gun ownership. I happen to disagree with him on that, we have our disagreements.
More….
Why didn’t Obama answer the question at the debate instead of weaving and bobbing? Was it because he didn’t want to alienate PA voters, many of whom favor strong gun ownership rights? And, did he fail to tell the truth?
Obama’s answer at the debate:
…and on another subject, WTF is WRONG with pelosi and her merry band of democrats in the HOUSE that they cant get this stuff passed?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080626/pl_politico/11352;_ylt=AgsfEnflHSk7CXSPCPj38Gth24cA
They cant get shit done when they are out of the majority and they cant get it done when they are IN the majority.
WTF?
That is an excellent question, farmgrrl! There are NO answers other than they are a bunch of incompetent nincompoops! Can’t make a silk purse out of this sows ear!
Health Care Round-Table Discussion to be held in Wichita
Wichita, Ks : Affordable health care tops the list as America ’s biggest domestic worry these days. To address this concern, Democracy for America ( Wichita ) has assembled a panel of three speakers to offer concrete suggestions for reducing medical costs while at the same time improving health care.
· Walt Chappell, Ph.D. and candidate for State School Board, “How to Reduce the Cost of Health Care”
· Ron Hunninghake, M.D. from The Bright Spot for Health, “Nutritional Supplements and Health Maintenance”
· Jane Byrnes, R.D., Distinguished Kansas Dietician and Personal Trainer, “Wellness, Much Cheaper than Sickness”
This program is free and open to the public at Rockwell Library, 5939 East 9th from 7 to 8:30 pm TODAY, Thursday, June 26.
Read it and weep, Max!
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those
“in common use at the time” finds support in the historical traditionof prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.
So banning the average hunting and self-defense weapons as out. Government regulation is (still) in.
Bush is da man! Dow up nearly 700 points since Jan 31 2001!
“Dow gained 179.01 to 10,881.20. The blue chip index is now up 0.8 percent for the year and only 64 points shy from its high for the year, reached when the Fed surprised the market with a half-percentage point rate cut Jan. 3.”
I think if the hand gun industry wanted to boost sales, they could run a spot along the line of :”It’s 3:00 AM and you hear a noise outside your house; you look out and see this person (Fade to a picture of Dick Cheney).
How can that commercial fail?
Yeah, I’m weeping Rage. For your and my Freedom.
For now, the 2nd Amendment is upheld as an Individual Right, though like all rights, they are not unlimited.
48 States for now, support Concealed Carry to some extent, with 40 some states having “Shall Issue” rights to Concealed Carry.
Obama favors a Federal Ban on Concealed Carry. That would entail a battle to determine the scope of the Power of the State vs the Power of the Federal Government.
Y’all gun banners may just get that All Powerful Federal Government you wish for under Obama.
Be careful what you wish for.
And the Assault Weapons ban has been reintroduced by you Democrats.
Democrats, you may still get your ban on 98% of all guns.
Obama would ban everything except for single-shot rifles, shotguns, and handguns even with today’s Supreme Court decision.
Hello? Is anyone out there? Is anyone getting this?
Just one question regarding the decision today….. Perhaps GMC or one of the other rational posters can answer this.
The DC Ban has been in place for 32 years. Of that time, only 12 years were under Democratic Administrations, the balance being under Republican control.
If the Democrats are perceived as “gun banners” why didn’t one of the Republican administrations seek to overturn the ban?
Breaking News: Lopsided vote to cut off debate on FISA bill. This was done, of course, because they know they have to votes to defeat it. And by the way, Saddams had WMDs. /sarcasm off
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/25/breaking-fisa-passes-cloture-in-senate/
How did Barack Obama vote? I’ll look for the data and include it in an update — but I think he was out of DC today and on the campaign trail.
Update: Obama was Not Voting, as was McCain. Here are the 15 who tried to block the bill:
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)
Will the netroots forgive Obama for not rushing back to vote against cloture? If Dodd and Feingold could only muster 13 other votes, probably.
Update II: Hillary Clinton was also Not Voting. The other two who didn’t vote were Byrd and Kennedy, both of whom are (I believe) still out for medical reasons.
So there you have it. Profiles in Courage.
WS- Ther wasn’t enought money on , or under, the table??
Yeah, Pleefer some weird things are going on under Gordon Brown. The House of Commons recently passed a bill to detain people without charge for 7 weeks!
The difference between the US and UK: they pass laws to do crap like that. . .
The Washington DC City Council passed the gun ban.
The DC Council has been Majority Democrat forever.
From Farmie’s link..
“giving the federal government more authority to crack down on price-gouging by oil companies and smaller vendors,”
does anyone believe that the oil companies set the price at which they buy and sell? If so, please review the mountain of regulation already in place on the oil companies.
“a bill requiring energy producers to relinquish any land not currently being tapped for oil or gas production,”
Sounds fair enough to me, as long as they receive the lease fee back. Does this mean the congress is going to open drilling for these locations?
“and a measure creating new restrictions for commodity traders whose speculation has driven up the price of oil.”
Heard that if we place more restrictions on futures trading, it will only move over seas. There are several mutual fund holders that will be hurt by this. Iran is already trying to open an ‘energy exchange’. More regulation may assist in this. This is a problem because Iran wants to trade in the more stable Euro. That would further devaluate the dollar.
“The DC Council has been Majority Democrat forever.”
I was looking for a response from a rational poster.
WS –
The simple answer, of course, is that the federal administrations take little interest in municipal affairs. DC, while a federal district, is a home-ruled district with its own municipal elected body, mayor, etc. While Congress CAN interfere with that administration, it DOES not, for lots of reasons. And the ban was overturned by Court decision, not legislative action, of course.
I note that KFG has, perhaps termed this as “activist.” It boggles the mind that affirming that the Constitution means what it says, and forecloses gov’t actions in some areas, is seen as “activist.” Limiting gov’t is exactly what constitutions are supposed to do.
That such a plain reading is rejected by four dissenting members tells us that our liberties are always at risk from those who would take them. The price of liberty indeed is always vigilence. Obama, given the opportunty, would not doubt appoint judges who would overturn this decision, as would much of the leadership of the Democratic Party, their denials notwithstanding. What they do speaks far louder than what they say.
The money quote from the decision, at least on my first read:
The very enumeration of the right takes out of the hands of government—even the Third Branch of Government—the power to decide on a case-by-case basis whether the right is really worth insisting upon. A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad.
Exactly.
How I am a “gun banner” when I’ve never argued for banning guns?
Only in the mind of Max Grobnik, hiding under the bed with his finger on the trigger.
Some of us actually prefer to fight government abuses of power in the concrete (e.g. the fascist FISA bill) rather fight an abstract (and largely imaginary) threat of unilateral disarmament.
If it comes down to a bloody battle between the people and the military, we’ve already lost.
“Why didn’t Obama answer the question at the debate instead of weaving and bobbing?” -Max
Because Obama is a “Once-In-A-Lifetime-Leader”.
Except, this particular brand of the leader is full of ideas of how to avoid answering basic questions.
How is he:
1) Going to get us out of Iraq?
He says that he will set a timetable WHEN he becomes president. Not now, but after he is safely sitting in the Oval office a brilliant plan will gush forth.
2) Bring down energy prices (is he for Nuclear power or is he against it?)
“Barack Obama said Tuesday that he would not take nuclear power “off the table” as a possible energy option, but blasted John McCain’s proposal to build dozens of new reactors in the U.S.”
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jun/24/obama-says-nuclear-power-is-an-energy-option/
2) Resucitate the US Dollar (by raising taxes, eh?) Obama criticizes the Bush policies for the falling dollar but he will not criticize the federal reserve which independently sets the interest rates which determines the value of the currency!
3) Correct the trend towards declining moral values hurting the American family. (By being pro-choice he is against it)
4) Bring Jobs back to the US (is he for free trade (read NAFTA) or against it?)
“Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama assured U.S. trading partners on Sunday that he did not oppose free trade despite making increasingly critical comments about multilateral deals such as NAFTA”
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2414727720080225
Leadership RE-defined.
The D.C. gun ban was a local law, not something Congress passed. Otherwise they likely would not have banned guns solely in D.C.
From Wikipedia, the mayors of Washington D.C. have been Democrats since 1975.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_of_Washington,_D.C.#Mayors_of_Washington.2C_D.C._.281975_-_present_day.29
I have no idea about the rest of the city council.
That such a plain reading is rejected by four dissenting members tells us that our liberties are always at risk from those who would take them.
Yeah, I know what you mean: plain language like “habeas corpus shall not be suspended.”
Go figure.
I should also note that the decision affirms that no right is unlimited. Exactly what limitations may be imposed, under what standard of review, and whether the right is incorporated as applying against state governments is left for another day, as it should be.
The decision says only that complete bans of working firearms are unconstitutional under any review scheme. It also permits the licensing and regulation of carrying concealed weapons (permitted by 40+ states) and licensing schemes in general, as long as they are not arbitrary or capricious (as in practice they usually are), though much of that is little more than dicta. Beyond that, the specifics of just how much regulation is permitted is left for another day.
Chicago’s draconian gun ban is likely next on the target list, as putting the issue of incorporation squarely before the court. Chicago will lose, and the 2nd amendment will be incorporated; logically the court can do little else, given this ruling.
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 26, 2008 at 10:44 am | Permalink
…and on another subject, WTF is WRONG with pelosi and her merry band of democrats in the HOUSE that they cant get this stuff passed?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080626/pl_politico/11352;_ylt=AgsfEnflHSk7CXSPCPj38Gth24cA
They cant get shit done when they are out of the majority and they cant get it done when they are IN the majority.
WTF?”
Because, it is not really about getting stuff done, it is instead about:
“In the meantime, both parties continued their finger-pointing over the gas prices and the policies that might have an effect on them”
Bass Turds all.
“That such a plain reading is rejected by four dissenting members tells us that our liberties are always at risk from those who would take them.”
I was quite surprised to see a 5-4, as I had expected a 7-2 or even a 8-1 decision. I am still surprised that it took 32 years for this to become a SCOTUS issue.
That having been said, a great number of DC residents will not be able to purchase a gun due to their extensive criminal records.
I am speaking of Congress, of course.
wsc, it could be that IF this question had come before the Supremes before the two latest appointments it would have changed the decision? Maybe, as a result of Roberts and Alito being appointed, the time was RIGHT?
I can’t even imagine this is such a big deal to the few who post here while at the same time the abuses of power and trampling of constitutional rights of the current administration are just of NO concern.
I’m with Rage that the FISA bill being reauthorized is at least equally important.
Did you read in this morning’s paper about the border patrol seizing the contents of laptops, cell phones and digital cameras from both U.S. and foreign travelers?? All under the guise of Homeland Security?
Rage:
Tell me when, under the Bush Administration, the right of habeus corpus has been suspended?
You can’t. It hasn’t.
The recent decision did not deal with the suspension of said right, it dealt with whether said right shoud be extended to alien enemy combatants not on US soil. It that respect, it was a significant broadening of our understanding of habeus rights.
am speaking of Congress, of course.
LMFAO. Spot on WS !!!!
…and on another subject, WTF is WRONG with pelosi and her merry band of democrats in the HOUSE that they cant get this stuff passed?
Actually, that’s about the only thing that’s gone wrong in this Congress that I do understand. Anything they pass has to be veto-proof; that means 2/3 margins. The alternative is negotiating with Bush (good luck with that!).
And since Pelosi can’t even get that much support from Dems much of the time (let alone Republicans), the legislation dies.
WS –
I’m surprised as well that it is so close.
a great number of DC residents will not be able to purchase a gun due to their extensive criminal records.
I am speaking of Congress, of course.
Well said. ;-)
However, the “Pelosi Anti-Energy Package” would block any attempt to increase domestic oil production by preventing the opening of new areas for drilling, such as the OCS and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). Instead, this proposal would institute a “use it or lose it” policy that would punish oil companies for not developing what are known as “non-producing” federal leases. Pelosi and other liberals in Congress justify this position by claiming that the oil companies are allowing the land to sit idle in order to drive up the cost of fuel. However, the truth is that oil companies have invested billions of dollars in exploration of these leases, and the so-called “non-producing” leases sit idle because they do not contain a commercially viable supply of petroleum. In other words, the liberals in Congress are trying to force energy companies to magically produce oil from dry rock while preventing them from drilling in areas where it has been proven that commercially viable reserves exist.
Dick Armey
Chairman
FreedomWorks.org
Rage
Posted June 26, 2008 at 11:33 am | Permalink
Some of us actually prefer to fight government abuses of power in the concrete (e.g. the fascist FISA bill) rather fight an abstract (and largely imaginary) threat of unilateral disarmament.
If it comes down to a bloody battle between the people and the military, we’ve already lost.
——————————————————————
Do you see anyone taking up arms against government today? Of course not. That is the option of LAST resort.
Of course it’s right and proper to work within the laws of Government to enact the appropriate and necessary Ch Ch Changes today.
By offering your opinion on a unilateral plan to use the military against the People, Rage even you then contemplate the possibility. Global History shows one would be foolish to believe otherwise.
The Fight for Freedom is a Daily Never-Ending battle. That’s the Vigilance GMC refers to, and it does not mean that the option of last resort is used first or at all. It means that option of last resort is always defended and maintained.
When you no longer have the right to defend your own life, then you are no longer Free.
Tell me when, under the Bush Administration, the right of habeus corpus has been suspended?
On a United States military base under which we have complete control. You can weasel your way around it all you want, but the King doesn’t have the right to throw prisoners in a dark hole for 6 years with no recourse.
That’s about as basic as it gets. So much for your haughty lip-service to freedom.
Damned activist judges!! ROFL!!
Rage –
I personally agree with the habeus decision. but let’s not pretend that the decision was not an extension of current law – it was – nor that it will not have consequences which at this point are unclear – it will.
I personally agree with the habeus decision. but let’s not pretend that the decision was not an extension of current law – it was – nor that it will not have consequences which at this point are unclear – it will.
It was an “extension” to the extent that the Court decided a jurisdictional question that had never come up in the exact form before. That’s about it.
Damned activist judges.The Conservative SC is legislating from the bench again! Strike down another McCain bill. What’s that make him 0 for 3? The one that should be struck down is the one favoring EADS.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080626/pl_nm/usa_politics_court_money_dc_1
On behalf of hundreds of thousands of FreedomWorks members nationwide, I urge you to vote “No” on H.R. 6346: the Federal Price Gouging Prevention Act. The bill, a shallow attempt to rein in gas prices, is eerily reminiscent of the very policies that led to shortages and gas lines in the 1970s and early 1980s. That was a time when government tried to tamper with a market not at the source, where Congress could encourage more exploration and utilize the vast resources available, but at the pump where retailers have very little control over the end price.
Gasoline prices vary across the spectrum for dozens of reasons beyond the control of the merchant – state and local taxes, proximity to supply, supply disruption, competition, environmental requirement, and operating costs – not to mention the price of crude oil, refinery costs, and federal taxes that are all out of the hands of anyone trying to make a living by providing much needed gasoline to Americans.
This bill ignores simple economics and instead binds an essential industry with undefined terms like “unconscionably excessive,” “taking unfair advantage,” and “unreasonably” opening the floodgate for trial lawyers to abuse these ambiguous terms.
Currently, far from taking any advantage from current high prices, gas stations are loosing money and more of these small businesses are closing every day. This bill essentially accuses retailers of inflating prices even as business falls and it is harder and harder to stay afloat. This is, in the first place, contrary to basic market principles and insulting to those entrepreneurs. Any profit a gas station sees from selling gas is a razor thin slice of the actual cost of gasoline. Second, this bill little more than an empty shell of big words that makes retailers the scapegoat for energy costs.
Instead of doing the work required to truly increase our energy supplies and bring down costs – expanding refinery capacity, streamlining environmental hurdles, and exploring for more energy – Congress would pin current energy woes on one of the groups suffering most.
http://freedomworks.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=2995
On behalf of hundreds of thousands of FreedomWorks members nationwide, I urge you to VOTE “NO” on the Federal Housing Finance Regulatory Reform Act of 2008. On the way to doing nothing to address the fundamental problem in the housing market, this bill creates a new $300 billion taxpayer liability, creates a trust fund in perpetuity outside of budgetary oversights for political community groups, and greatly expands the Federal Housing Administration, perhaps to the breaking point.
The legislation allows mortgage lenders, including Countrywide Financial, to cherry-pick the worst performing and riskiest loans in their portfolios, turning them over to the FHA and shifting 100 percent of the new liability to taxpayers all over the country who will have to pick up the tab for the few states where foreclosures are concentrated. Because the legislation allows mortgage lenders to shift their highest risk loans to the FHA, CBO estimates that 35 percent of the loans will eventually default even after the balances are reset through the program.
GSE reform is critical to sound housing policy, but should not have to come at the price of a bailout bill for banks on the backs of taxpayers. The new tax in this bill actually undermines the GSEs, requiring them to pay 4.2 cents for every $100 in mortgages purchased or securitized every year.
The bill is the wrong answer to the housing crisis. The immediate new spending and taxpayer risks outweigh the benefits of this legislation. It rewards the least prudent borrowers and their lenders and puts taxpayers on the hook for the riskiest loans.
As Housing Commissioner Montgomery noted, “But some in Congress are advancing legislation that, while well intentioned, could be problematic for the economy and the country. Some of the proposed congressional actions could actually weaken the FHA and endanger the housing market by turning FHA into a less stable, less solvent, more bureaucratic entity.”
http://freedomworks.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=2992
The word “attorney” comes from the old middle english word “attorn” which means, to turn over to another; transfer. Robin Hood (only reversed).
Real good people. Sometimes they even strive to become “Judges”, which that word comes from Justinian…read up on him.
Internal Probe Faults Security Gaps at U.S. Nuclear Sites
A leaked U.S. Air Force review has found major security flaws at most U.S. bases storing nuclear weapons in Europe. The probe was launched after an incident last August in which a B-52 bomber inadvertently carried nuclear warheads on a cross-country flight. According to the report, security infrastructure is in need of major repair at several sites. At some bases, nuclear weapons were found to be guarded by private security guards and U.S. soldiers with just months of experience. The report calls for reducing the number of nuclear weapons in Europe to “reduce vulnerabilities at overseas locations.” The report was leaked to the Federation of American Scientists and published on its website. Hans Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists said: “The main implication of the … report is that the nuclear weapons deployment in Europe is, and has been for the past decade, a security risk.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/26/headlines#1
Bring home all the nukes. Bring the troops with them :-b
Canadian Judge: U.S. Treatment of Khadr Amounts to Torture
Meanwhile a Canadian judge has issued a harsh rebuke of the U.S. imprisonment of the Canadian prisoner Omar Khadr. On Wednesday, federal court judge Richard Mosley said Khadr’s treatement has violated international laws against torture. Mosley cited a document detailing a technique used against Kadr during his interrogation. Mosley did not reveal the technique but said it should be publicly exposed. Khadr was fifteen years old when he was arrested by U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/26/headlines#1
Judge: NSA Not Compelled to Disclose Spying on Gitmo Attorneys
In other Guantanamo news, a federal judge has rejected a suit that would have forced the National Security Agency to disclose whether it spied on the lawyers of Guantanamo prisoners. On Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Denise Cote said the NSA does not need to tell lawyers whether they were spied on. Attorneys have claimed they’ve avoided international phone calls out of fear their phones are tapped.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/26/headlines#1
GM stock at a 53 yr. low. As GM has gone, so has gone the Nation.
Phantom – I think we have decoupled from GM. They are one on the worst managed corporations in the universe.
Michigan hasn’t de-coupled. anyone got a life raft? We’re drowning. That awesome liberal leadership here and all.
There’s a lot of Michigan license tags showing up in Wichita lately.
Perhaps the Republican inbreeding will be abated somewhat.
For the Michigan insiders…
“And in the FIFTH year… (dramatic pause) … you’ll be bloooooown away.”
News flash, it’s the 6th year and we are the worst economy in the nation. Guess that is what she ment by “bloooown away”
“bth” notes –
“…GM [is] …one on the worst managed corporations in the universe.”
Just as the United States of America under Shrub is the worst-managed nation in the history of civilization.
Funny you mention – foreign – tags. There are a lot of Texas, Georgia, and Florida tags up here. I know they didn’t come here for the weather (tags witnessed in winter) and damn sure didn’t come for the job opportunities (non-existant).
Just as the United States of America under Shrub is the worst-managed nation in the history of civilization.
Darfur comes to mind…
Hank Price posted June 26, 2008 at 6:48 am
“Mr. Svec is a senior vice president for Peabody…
It would include … the likes of the president of the Czech Republic, a former founder of Greenpeace and the former founder of The Weather Channel.”
————-
Dear Hank,
Please explain why you believe that an “economist”,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaclav_Klaus
a PhD in ecology on the administration of environmental law relating to the mining industry,
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patrick_Moore
and a news “weathercaster”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Coleman_%28news_weathercaster%29
know more about climate than climate scientists who have dedicated much of their lives to researching climate.
Like Dr. Hansen,
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/
Hank, convince us that your 6:48 am post does not prove Dr. Hansen’s point — coal executives try to deceive Americans re the AGW issue.
“SolDevVB” responds to my –
“…the United States of America under Shrub is the worst-managed nation in the history of civilization.”
– with –
“Darfur comes to mind…”
I’d be too picky if I pointed out Darfur isn’t a “nation,” per se.
And I guess the nation involved is Sudan.
And, I’ll acknowledge that Sudan is almost as badly managed as the United States of America under George WMD Bush.
SCOTUS left sooo much room for “regulation”, this is NOT a “victory”. for gun rights. Will they soon have to hear a case as to whether or not we should be able to breathe without a tax on it?
An Arizona home invasion allegedly orchestrated by Mexican citizens wearing tactical gear sparked fears that members of the Mexican military were involved in a wave of violent crime in the Phoenix area, according to local reports.
Police followed the sound of gunshots early Monday morning to the home of 30-year-old Andrew Williams, whose bullet-riddled body was found inside, the Arizona Republic reported. Officers then pursued a report of a suspicious Chevrolet Tahoe in the vehicle and arrested three suspects, all wearing body armor and carrying assault-style rifles.
A statement by one of the suspects that he had received prior military training fueled speculation into the fact that they were members of the Mexican military. Phoenix police said Wednesday that none of them were active members.
However, in a radio interview this week, Phoenix Law Enforcement Association President Mark Spencer said the men involved were hired by drug cartels to carry out home invasions and assassinations.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,372202,00.html
Gun license…sheesh.
And they know for sure that it wasn’t Mexican soldiers hired by the cartels?
I’m not Hank but if I were I would tell you that as soon as you show me algore is anything but a long winded politician pretending to be an expert on GW I would compare creds with you.
By the way I have never said I built houses. don’t know where you got that. But I did build my own home as energy efficient as possible and pay half the energy bills that others do for a house the size of mine. I didn’t wait to get permission for 20 years either.
You cosmos until you show me differently have zilch credibility. What are you? What makes you the expert on experts. They are many fine scientist that have studies that contradict yours. More and more are coming aboard.
You guys have won some battles but you will lose the war I think.
Alas, we’ve decoupled from GM but have coupled with idiot bush.
okobserver,
Another typical post from you…
1) You attack Al Gore, and me, because you can’t answer my question to Hank.
2) You imply that Gore should’ve renovated his house about 14 years BEFORE he bought it.
3) You lie when you claim that there “are many fine scientist that have studies that contradict yours”.
You only have unsubstantiated “opinions” from people like those on Hank’s Peabody Coal list — an economist, an ecologist, and a TV weathercaster.
Science is not based on unsubstantiated “opinions”.
Glen Beck. Great read. More at link.
“NEW YORK (CNN) — A lot of people don’t believe it, but the truth is that I really don’t know whom I’m going to vote for this November. It won’t be Barack Obama — he and I simply disagree on too many fundamental issues — but it also may not be John McCain.
As much as the media and the analysts try to pigeon-hole people as having only one political ideology, the fact is that most people (at least, most “real” people), don’t fit neatly into one predetermined set of political beliefs.
I’m no exception. Although I am a “conservative,” I’m not a “Republican,” and there’s a big difference. A true Republican, or a true Democrat, is someone who puts their party above their principles and their candidate above their conscience.
But most of us (or at least those of us who live outside the Beltway) aren’t like that. We’re more like the mad scientist Frankenstein: We’d like to take a piece of this candidate, a touch of that one and a little slice of the one over there, mash it all together and create someone who’s lines up perfectly with our values and beliefs.
Which brings me back to John McCain. Like Obama, McCain and I have fundamental differences on a host of important issues. Sure, I disagree with him less than I do with Obama, but is that really the standard we should use in choosing their candidate? Our country isn’t a reality show where we simply elect whoever’s left after all the backstabbing and lying is finished.”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/25/beck.conservatives/index.html
OK, one more part from that link.
A conservative believes that our inalienable rights do not include housing, healthcare or Hummers.
A conservative believes that our inalienable rights DO include the pursuit of happiness. That means it is guaranteed to no one.
A conservative believes that those who pursue happiness and find it have a right to not be penalized for that success.
A conservative believes that there are no protections against the hardship and heartache of failure. We believe that the right to fail is just as important as the chance to succeed and that those who do fail learn essential lessons that will help them the next time around.
A conservative believes in personal responsibility and accepts the consequences for his or her words and actions.
A conservative believes that real compassion can’t be found in any government program.
A conservative believes that each of us has a duty to take care of our neighbors. It was private individuals, companies and congregations that sent water, blankets and supplies to New Orleans far before the government ever set foot there.
A conservative believes that family is the cornerstone of our society and that people have a right to manage their family any way they see fit, so long as it’s not criminal. We are far more attuned to our family’s needs than some faceless, soulless government program.
A conservative believes that people have a right to worship the God of their understanding. We also believe that people do not have the right to jam their version of God (or no God) down anybody else’s throat.
A conservative believes that people go to the movies to be entertained and to church to be preached to, not the other way around.
A conservative believes that debt creates unhealthy relationships. Everyone, from the government on down, should live within their means and strive for financial independence.
A conservative believes that a child’s education is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.
A conservative believes that every human being has a right to life, from conception to death.
A conservative believes in the smallest government you can get without anarchy. We know our history: The larger a government gets, the harder it will fall.
Yo cosmos!
A clue: Dr. Hansen is not a Climatologist. He is a physicist.
Our country isn’t a reality show …
Wanna bet?
I still think “Survivor: The White House” could be a money-maker. After all, there are stunts so disgusting that they can’t get people to do them … but not in this case. And hour-long show every night from now until November. Think of the advertising revenues!
Ben, congratulations and happy anniversary to you and your bride! Good work, you two!
Regular: I also see that Dr. Hansen is Al Gores’s science adviser. And he isn’t even a climatologist?
But hasn’t cosmos for sure and I think others, been denigrating anyone’s scientific opinion on climate change who isn’t a trained climatologist?
So is Al Gore’s science adviser on global warming not qualified?
Lawmakers vow to execute child rapists
(AP) — Angry politicians vowed to keep writing laws that condemn child rapists to death, despite a Supreme Court decision saying such punishment is unconstitutional.
Texas Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst supported that state’s get-tough Jessica’s Law.
“Anybody in the country who cares about children should be outraged that we have a Supreme Court that would issue a decision like this,” said Alabama Attorney General Troy King, a Republican. The justices, he said, are “creating a situation where the country is a less safe place to grow up.”
The court’s 5-4 decision Wednesday derailed the efforts of nearly a dozen states supporting the right to kill those convicted of raping a child and said execution was confined to attacks that take a life and to other crimes including treason and espionage.
At issue before the high court was a Louisiana case involving Patrick Kennedy, sentenced to die for raping his 8-year-old daughter in her bed, an assault so severe she required surgery.
In his majority opinion, Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote that “the death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child,” despite the horrendous nature of the crime.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/26/scotus.child.rape.ap/index.html
Sol, Numbers 1-4, 6-8, 12 and 14 are true. 5, 9, 10, 11 and 13 havent’ been true about conservatives since I was a teenager.
#5. Five words: You read the same intelligence
#9. Three words: Faith Based Initiative
#10. Four words: Passion of the Christ.
#11. Three words: Bridge to Nowhere.
#13. Two words: Death Penalty.
But 9 / 14 64% isn’t too bad.
Pastor Who Officiated at Jenna Bush Wedding Launches Pro-Obama Website
The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, leader of the largest Methodist congregation in the country, launched a website yesterday titled “James Dobson Does Not Speak For Me.”
http://tinyurl.com/52z8tu
:-)
Dr. James E. Hansen
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/
Jenna Bush is for Obama as well.
Like I said cosmos, Hansen is not a Climatologist.
Obama leads in four battleground states: poll
The poll found Obama leads 49 to 44 percent in Colorado, 48 to 42 percent in Michigan, 52 to 39 percent in Wisconsin and 54 to 37 percent in Minnesota. The margin of error in each state was around 2.6 percentage points.
http://tinyurl.com/4mvuu7
Today is STILL the best day ever!!!
President lifts trade sanctions with North Korea. Also removes them from Terror List.
Very Curious.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080626/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_nkorea
The lame duck has to quack while he can.
Sol the Glen Beck column was great. It’s like he is reading my mind. So many of my friends share the same thoughts. Everyone wonders why we have so few choices and why none of them are good ones.
Oh well.
I think you took it wrong LLT, Beck is talking about conservatives not the republican party.
Read his artlicle. Kind of points that (and some other good stuff) out.
I calim Libertarian, but I don’t go 100% with what they stand for.
“President lifts trade sanctions with North Korea. Also removes them from Terror List.”
It’s probably because he wants to point to one foreign relations success during his time as pResident.
Same here OKObs. In fact, I have noticed a lot more ‘Libertarian’ converts. Like me, they don’t go 100% libertarian, but anymore, the Libertarian party has more Conservative platforms than any other current party.
The U.S. presidential race is not determined by a simple popular vote, but instead by counting the electoral votes of the states each candidate wins. Populous California has 55 electoral votes, while sparsely populated Montana has three. A total of 270 is needed for victory.
Candidates recently devoted most of their campaigning to a handful of “swing” states that could line up behind either candidate.
A Quinnipiac poll last week found Obama leading McCain in the largest swing states — Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania.
Sol, I remember your support of Ron Paul. Has he endorsed a candidate? Do you like Barr as well as you did Paul? Is it possible today without oodles and gobs of money to be competitive? is it possible if the level of dissatisfaction is great enough that true grass roots organization could overcome the well financed?
Knative I can only point out that the election is a long ways away. I see the lead changing over and over again as the hard campaigning starts.
It really will be the last man standing this election I think.
I know Sol, your a libertarian, as I am. I was just being ornery again. I love showing Republicans how they aren’t really conservative. Especially union members. CLASSIC.
But they didn’t bite. They must be salavating on the gun blog. I agree with the decision. But unlike them, I won’t buy a gun as some kind of a toy. I keep my .45 in a safe place along with my rifles. I don’t get a kick out of guns. I use them when they are needed.
Climatologist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Climatologist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Dr. James E. Hansen
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/
—————-
Economist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Economist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Ecologist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:ecologist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Weathercaster
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/weathercaster
The only way to be a big money machine would be with a groundswell from a well ran internet campaign that morphs into a strong phone call campaign, all grass roots, persons not machines and people who care enough to get involved nation wide.
With enough bodies that care enough to vote a libertarian could be elected.
“lindainks55″ asks –
“…is it possible …a true grass roots organization could overcome the well financed?”
Probably not.
Unless that grassroots organization happens to create the resources for a well-financed campaign. Which is exactly what Barack Obama created. Something like 1.3 million donors at an averages of $25 per donation. No political campaign in American history has attracted so many donors.
That’s about as grassroots as you can get.
be=beat
Perhaps so OKOB. But I think the first step would be to get a libertarian elected at a lower level. Cark Kramer didn’t do as well as I had hoped for Kansas Governor.
Ron Paul as a Congressman is the only real success story of a libertarian winning as a libertarian, above the level of dogcatcher.
Vet that is true but this year is a different kind of election and the fuel prices have sounded an alarm for many. More people that have never voted are lookin at the election as an opportunity to see a real change and they aren’t thinking Obama or McCain.
I agree VET – they need to be establishing an infrastructure.
I have seen opportunities for a real third party to establish itself be missed many times over the years. Ross Perot for example – if in the bye election in 1994 they had fielded a slate they could have gotten a foothold. Or, going back further, if John Anderson’s movement after 1980 had fielded a slate the ground would have been even more fertile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Anderson
1982 would have seen candidates running in newly aligned Congressional districts (reapportionment) and that would have improved chances for newcomers.
Let me explain something to you cosmos, my little cut and paste friend.
We live in a very, very complex world. It is so complex that very few people can now be a real expert on anything, let alone climate.
For example:
No one person is capable of possessing all the knowledge required to make a #2 lead pencil. From the raw materials for each of its parts to the technology required for the manufacturing process the amount of knowledge required is incredible and impossible for any single man to know.
Yet, we have a small segment of mankind that believe they can predict climate change! Incredible.
So, what are we to believe? Who do we trust? What can we do?
You respect and trust people that make sense. You look at both sides of an issue and bringing your experience, your knowledge and your belief system into play make a decision based on your best guess.
Who do I trust and respect? Not Al Gore, he’s a politician. He’s not very smart. He’s hypocritical and a borderline nut. I don’t trust people like Hansen. What ever scientific contribution he might bring to the debate is trumped by the indisputable fact that he is a political butt-boy of the left. I don’t trust half the people I cut and paste here. I merely use them to prove that ‘the debate’ ain’t over.
Therefore, all your nagging little questions wanting me to defend people on ‘my side’ of issue are meaningless. You’re implications that I’m stupid reflect on you, not me.
All that being said, I don’t think you are stupid. I don’t think you are disingenuous. I admire your passion, I just think you are wrong.
Does man effect the climate? Sure. There is a lot of evidence that man has effected regional climate. Is the earth warming? Probably not for the last 8 to 10 years. If it is warming, can man have any significant effect on changing it? Probably not. Is there really a ’scientific consensus’ on global warming? Probably not. I haven’t seen any evidence of it.
Answer your questions? They’re irrelevant cosmos. They are merely an indication of your basic misunderstanding of issue before us.
Faith in God, cosmos. Common sense, cosmos. Suspicion of all politicians, cosmos. All that combined with a pretty good BS detector gets me through the night.
Source for yesterday’s abortion risk comment:
See news page
http://www.lifenews.com/nat3999.html
- – -
Now that George Tiller’s steak-and-lobster-swilling part-time abortionist quack Shelley Sella is publicly accused of violating the federal Born Alive Infants Protection Act and the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act and the Medicare Conditions of Participation as well as Kansas murder laws, maybe we will see that federal investigation of Kansas abortion mills we have so desperately needed for so long.
Now that Alexa’s Law considers an unborn baby to be . . . human, for purposes of prosecuting for criminal injury and death, Tiller might also be charged with illegal destruction of criminal evidence in his unlicensed incinerator.
Contact Eric Melgren, U.S. Attorney in Wichita, ph: 316-269-6481, to urge federal investigations and prosecutions. Drop a dime on the criminal conspiracy in Kansas government that is shielding abortion mill crimes.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
- – -
Now that NBC’s Dateline “To Catch a Predator” series is apparently cancelled or on indefinite hold, perhaps we can see a replacement, like “To Catch an Abortionist Quack” featuring actors posing as a 13-year-old pregnant girl and a 22-year-old boyfriend entering abortion mills, or posing as racist donors wanting their money used for black babies being tossed into incinerators.
Cosmos,
If the debate is over and our posts are meaningless why are you wasting your time here trying to debate us?
Why are you not out there saving the world?
John Sydney McBush has missed over 300 Senate votes since April.
Missing in Action once again.
At least Bob Dole had the principles to quit the Senate in order to run for President.
If McShame isn’t paying attention to his job now, will he be just as McLazy as President?
Parkay.. if you have evidence of criminal wrongdoing.. you should call… My guess is you don’t have a thing.
parkay – why don’t you approach FAUX with your TV idea? Maybe BillO will sponsor it! And you could be a star!
Hi! I have never blogged on here before and not to sound silly but, is open thread open to any subject?
Yes
Yes, MomofChris. Sometimes other threads veer off subject too, but this one is meant to be open to what posters want to discuss and post. Welcome to the blog.
Third party? A real alternative?
Think GREEN.
Think CYNTHIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG, kirbyjon caldwell? Do you all not remember who he is? As bush’s “spiritual advisor” ya gotta wonder how he did on THAT job!
His church also hosted a link on its website to… wait for it… one of the most hateful ex-gay groups in the nation. The link was immediately removed after he received a storm of criticism for… wait for it…
Being part of the Gospel Hate Tour that included donny mcclurkin preaching at an obama fundraiser in South Carolina. Yeah. That one.
Jesus WEPT!
It seems the hateful dobson DID speak for caldwell.
Before he didnt….
Big eye roll.
And you all wonder why I cant support obama?
I wonder more how YOU can support him.
But hey, on the bright side, uh, sort of a dark humor side, who knew caldwell was so nimble and chameleon like? The guy can change spiritual direction AND political parties on a dime.
Finger in the air, note the change in wind, and voila!
Different spiritual philosophy, different political party, different candidate.
Who says the gospel is unchanging….?
ksfg – I got an email from the AFA claimimg that you are going to try to force me into a homosexual marriage. At least that is how they seem to phrase it! ;)
You wouldn’t do that to me would you?
Thank you bth and lindainks55! I guess now all I need to do is think about how I need to approach my subject. Thanks again!
Yeah, I know, it’s just another blog, but here’s a little linky in case you dont believe me. It’s worth the long read.
http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/01/21/barack-obama-and-kirbyjon-caldwell-somebodys-fibbing-maybe-everybody/
Google “kirbyjon caldwell + ex gay” and see what ya get. More than just this blog, but it explains a whole lot.
I guess kirbyjon was against gays before he was, uh, against dobson?
Jesus WEPT!
hee hee heee Ben. No.
But I might force you to be my “best man” at the wedding of the century….
…and anyway, my experience is that most straight guys dont want to BE in a gay marriage. They just like to think about watching…
heheheheheheheheh!
kfg,
Make meh tater salad…
Heh reg. The tater salad is about to be made from the first new potatoes. Yukon golds, no less! Digging some today.
Heck, I may even make the mayo from scratch with my fresh eggs. And I have some onions ready to dig.
No pickles left from last year though :( I guess I’ll hafta buy those.
Yukon golds?
Are those the round or elongated ones?
Hank Price posted June 26, 2008 at 4:53 pm
“We live in a very, very complex world. It is so complex that very few people can now be a real expert on anything, let alone climate.”
Climate science is complex, which is why it is divided into many fields — atmosphere, ocean, paleo, ice cores, models, etc. A large number of scientists in each of those many fields have done extensive research for decades.
“I don’t trust half the people I cut and paste here. I merely use them to prove that ‘the debate’ ain’t over.”
That’s illogical.
“Is there really a ’scientific consensus’ on global warming? Probably not. I haven’t seen any evidence of it.”
There is a ’scientific consensus’ on global warming.
The senior vice president for Peabody COAL can’t refute it.
The economist Vaclav Klaus can’t refute it.
The ecologist Patrick Moore can’t refute it.
The TV weathercaster John Coleman can’t refute it.
There isn’t one credible climate scientist who refutes the ’scientific consensus’ on global warming.
If there was, Hank would not be copy/pasting attacks from Peabody COAL, economists, et al.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm
The IPCC and
“National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Environmental Protection Agency
NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies
American Geophysical Union
American Institute of Physics
National Center for Atmospheric Research
American Meteorological Society
State of the Canadian Cryosphere
The Royal Society of the UK
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Academies of Science from 19 countries
The Academies of Science from 19 different countries all endorse the consensus. 11 countries have signed a joint statement endorsing the consensus position:
Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Brazil)
Royal Society of Canada
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academie des Sciences (France)
Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Sciences
Royal Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
Additionally, the Academies of Science from another 8 countries (as well as several countries from the first list) also signed a joint statement endorsing the IPCC consensus:
Australian Academy of Sciences
Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Royal Irish Academy
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences ”
More at link.
HBO is airing 5 hours of George Carlin HBO comedy specials, starting at 7 p.m. tonight on HBOE. Will repeat on HBOW.
Thanks for the heads up Pre. The chickens wanna come in and watch the bit about the difference between cats and dogs.
Reg? The Yukons are, well, potato shaped :)
They are not fingerlings, if that’s what you meant. They are not round like Pontiac Reds or such. Just potato shaped.
Or “potatoe” shaped if yer dan quayle….
Heeeeee!
I KNEW I was in good company.
Rosanne “blond and bitchin’” Barr supports Cynthia too!
http://www.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/
And did I mention the Dali Lama?
Come on Pmom! You know you want in… JK.
And who finds THIS surprising? I got this from Crooks and Liars.
“An analysis by LightMAP.org reveals that the 94 Democrats who changed their position on FISA since March are being flooded with donations from the companies who they now want to give a free pass. Shouldn’t this be illegal or something?
Politico:
Dems who flipped on FISA immunity see more telecom cash
House Democrats who flipped their votes to support retroactive immunity for telecom companies in last week’s FISA bill took thousands of dollars more from phone companies than Democrats who consistently voted against legislation with an immunity provision, according to an analysis by MAPLight.org.
The 94 Democrats who changed their positions received on average $8,359 in contributions from Verizon, AT&T and Sprint from January, 2005, to March, 2008, according to the analysis by MAPLight, a nonpartisan organization that tracks the connection between campaign contributions and legislative outcomes.”
ksfarmgrrl
Posted June 26, 2008 at 7:20 pm | Permalink
And who finds THIS surprising? I got this from Crooks and Liars.
“An analysis by LightMAP.org reveals that the 94 Democrats who changed their position on FISA since March are being flooded with donations from the companies who they now want to give a free pass. Shouldn’t this be illegal or something?
======================================
Can you hear me now? :)
ksfarmgrrl,
. . . and anything different is expected? Aren’t these the same slimeballs who catered to the major financial institutions and created the mess housing is in now? The same slimeballs who will stoop to, or accept, anything to get re-elected, whether democrat or republican?
The beltway is owned and controlled by business, and it’s still business as usual, while we, the “little people”, get thrown the bone. And even that has had the marrow consumed by the owners.
Which leaves tater-salad . . . better keep that under covers before fisa decides it’s a national treasure and confiscates that as well:-)
Ah, thanks for the info about taters KFG.
The only thing I learned about potatoes from my grandfather was how to store them.
He told me in a mocking laugh once though, “You put the lime on top of the potatoes, not underneath…
:cool:
KFG, I’m not going to swear to any candidate yet. If Obama pulls Hillary on board, I’ll go that way. I know Cynthia doesn’t have a chance in heck, but I’ll vote for her if Obama throws Hillary people under the bus.
And I’m thinking he might….Bill Clinton’s snub of the question on whether or not he supports Obama might had been a clue.
Attention Liberal Posters.
I would really like to see us do another meetup. I cannot schedule one for Wichita since I live so far away, I’ve emailed the Eagle staff, so far there has been no word back. So its up to us to host it. Come on, someone find a darn place to do it.
I’m thinking a moderately priced restaurant with a private room that we can use.
o you see what Parkay just said?
“Now that Alexa’s Law considers an unborn baby to be . . . human, for purposes of prosecuting for criminal injury and death, Tiller might also be charged with illegal destruction of criminal evidence in his unlicensed incinerator.”
I told you I told you I told you, that they pushed for Alexa’s law just so they could try to wedge that into something it was not meant for.
I hope that Alexa’s grandparents get to hear this.
I’ve been waiting for them to realize that you were just using them.
“try to wedge that into something it was not meant for”
Heheheheh.
I’ve got parkay’s wedgie right here…
I could put it “into something it was not meant for”.
But he’d probably enjoy it!
As I like to say when I am working on a difficult project political mama…
“NASA is working on the problem.”
I’m not at all surprised the Eagle wants nothing to do with any more meetups. There are people posting here I think they would rather not meet.
Or be held responsible for.
Unfortunately, it is for the same reason that the next meetup will have to be organized back channel. A meeting was held the other day to work toward that.
HIGH on the list of people that posters want to meet? (Or see again)
Well the farmgrrl of course. Monkeyhawk there’s folks would like to meet you too. Cosmos too. WS Clark was also mentioned.
Some of the newer posters on the illuminated side of politics (or those who switched nics with registration and remain unknown) would be good to meet as well.
It is too hot now. Maybe something toward the fall.
Political_mama
Posted June 26, 2008 at 7:54 pm | Permalink
I’m thinking a moderately priced restaurant with a private room that we can use.
**********
Not gonna touch that one. Sometimes descretion is the better part of valor.
Cosmos,
I see you are still destroying the world by wating time here trying to debate with us when the debate is over.
Go save to world and stop blogging!
Hypocrite.
I believe that Nathan with his latest post proves that he is a MASTER BAITER!
This blog is approaching its three year anniversary. It started in late June, 2005.
As you might notice from the following, some things have not changed in those three years:
Nathan
Posted June 29, 2005 at 2:59 pm | Permalink
Ed,
That is what I like to call evading the question when you have no answer.
I ask you for evidence to support this claim of yours about Bush doing whatever Sharon tells him to.
either you are making this stuff up for some agenda of yours or you have proof.
Right now you have no proof so I will go with you just making it up.
Nathan
Posted June 29, 2005 at 3:01 pm | Permalink
D.A. Rider,
Do you believe that Bush is doing whatever Sharon tells him to do or that most of what Ed says is true?
Why?
It has nothing to do with me already making up my mind. It has everything to do with me seeing someone say something so far out that I have to question it and ask for evidence.
So… what is it that makes you think this way?
*****
Lots of questions, no answers. Some things seem to never change.
Gee whiz Cosmos, please don’t destroy the world by “wating time”!
If you do, Galactus will be really pissed off!
I “wated time” once and it damn near destroyed my car!
Be careful out there boyz and girlz, and don’t wat time!
Good night and may the Higher Power bliss y’all.
I am not too good to hang out with anyone, but I would prefer prefer a sans-con meet up. I think it might just be more comfortable and enjoyable to me. P_mom gave some ideas on where and how.
Lets hear from others. Will repeat this request tomorrow.
Heading to bed early – long day tomorrow.
“I am not too good to hang out with anyone, but I would prefer prefer a sans-con meet up. ”
I think MOST of the illuminated posters feel the same. There are a few cons I haven’t met or seen.
They don’t strike me as the sort of folk that are fun to be around.
Steven,
And the only thing you offer is your constant stalking of my father and I.
How much time did you spend digging up those old posts?
You are really starting to scare me. You set up posters with meetings so you can mock them and have people drive by and now you are stalking my father and I.
Scary.
I don’t blame you liberals for not wanting to meet up with some of us conservatives.
If I were you, I couldn’t look us in the face either, after the way you have acted here the past year.
Cowards.
Nathan,
Please go masterbait somewhere else. And please clean up that nasty mess on your way out.
Now that the troll is fed, check out this from David Brooks:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/opinion/27brooks.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
MoDo has written some inspired stuff here lately, too. It must be those world wide journalistic pressures to write good stuff or perish. Something is up. Not sure what.
Once again, nite all.
Steven,
What a sad nasty old man you are.
Time to take your medicine.
No, I want a meetup for all. I’ve found that often we do better when we meet and talk to the ‘other’ side. There are a lot of cons I didn’t meet at the last one.
If you want a get together of just the libs, that’s not exactly a meetup.
How to say this without hurting his feelings…..
Oh yeah. I don’t care about his feelings.
Here’s the deal Nathan. I don’t know anyone that wants to meet you or see you again.
There’s just no demand for a face to face with con posters. They are just not the sort of folks that are fun to be around.
To be fair political mama, it was discussed that you might feel this way.
You are of course free to organize something on your own.
Really? And when are you all discussing me?
PMom, I’ve met you and would love to see you again! I will not be anywhere Nathan is! He is mean, dangerous, and he stalks me and I won’t intentionally be where he is. Several of us have met up a few times for fun where we can talk. email and let me know whenever you’re going to be in town and we’ll get a bunch together.
You are loved and respected and admired! I think I’ve been to each of the privately scheduled meetings and you’re a favorite! I’ll admit a second to farmgrll, but UP there!
I’m going to be in town getting a second epidural on the 1st.
I didn’t realize that Nathan was stalking you. What’s up with that?
LOL I’m ranked.
Well if I’m so loved, why wasn’t I invited? Sniff.
Can’t even imagine! He seems to have decided I’m the worst of everything bad and if I post where he posts … I really would rather ignore it completely! Please!
The truth is that when I’ve met fellow bloggers we don’t discuss others because we’re catching up with each other. We talk about the ones we miss and would love to meet or see again. Mostly, its just friends talking about common interests and getting to klnow one another better!
I enjoyed meeting you political mama. And I’d like to see you again.
But you do have some radical affiliations. There is some concern you might not be able to keep a con free meet up quiet.
PMom, speaking of radical affiliations — I truly think Max (there is a longer version I can’t remember!) is Glynn / GSheridan. What do you think?
It’s Grobnik… MaxGrobnik… :-)
So because I have conservative friends, you think for some weird reason that I’d bring them and or pull the kind of stuff that you did with Steven?
Sorry, I’m not whacky like that. I’d never even think to do something that deceitful.
Well, I guess that’s too bad.
Now, now, folks… let’s not worry about what hasnt happened yet… Mark Twain identified that as one of the worst habits we humans have!! :-)
Nathaniel posted June 26, 2008 at 9:58 pm
“I see you are still destroying the world by wating time here trying to debate with us when the debate is over.
Go save to world and stop blogging!”
————-
Nathaniel, don’t you know that all work and no play is unhealthy?
I need to take a break from work sometimes, and laugh at the posts that you, your father, and other AGW deniers make.
For example, Dennis Avery, an agricultural economist, LIED about what 100’s of climate scientists believe.
Be honest Nathaniel… don’t you think that it’s very humorous that YOU have insisted that Avery is a credible source re AGW science?
I’m not “whacky” or deceitful there political mama.
A lunch was organized, a con who was not invited threatened to be present.
I took the opportunity to better know an enemy.
I am sorry if you have problems with enemy identification.
I don’t think the meetup that is being worked on is for you.
You’re hearing ALL wrong on the Steven / Regular meeting! It had been set up as a meeting between Regular and J R and Steven ONLY! It was set up on the blog so everyone knew of the when and where. I think it might have even been an open invite?? Nathan posted he would like to attend and Regular said of course he would be welcomed. Steven emailed J R and suggested it might not be a great idea if he was there with both Regular and Nathan. There were some nasty exchanges between those two and this was a place Steven knew the owners, was a regular… (NO distinction here between who was at fault, just an animosity that existed!) When Steven went to the lunch meeting he hadn’t heard back from J R so really didn’t know whether he would or wouldn’t be there. Later it was learned J R wanted to be there, didn’t go out of respect for Steven’s advice (but didn’t let Steven know!), did drive by the place he wanted to be… what webs we weave!
Yes, I do think that it was wrong what you did. I would NEVER do something so downright deceitful…this is just a blog afterall. Its kindof freaky and creepy.
As for GS, are you all really that scared of her? Well for your information, she’s not posting on a lot of other blogs, so you’re really seeing a ghost behind every tree. She’s had a lot of stuff happen lately, and she’s got other things to worry about.
You don’t have to invite me anywhere. I just think that’s odd that you’re willing to be so secretive about it as if I’m the enemy when I’m not. You’re almost sounding as freaky paranoid as someone else here.
I’m probably one of the most honest posters on here, what you see is what you get.
If you’re not, that’s not my problem- don’t project your issues onto me.
So I’ll be in town on the first. I don’t know where I’ll have lunch yet. If anyone wants to meet me for lunch somewhere along K-96 east of the canal route, let me know.
Linda has it essentially correct there Political mama.
There was no deception on Steven’s part.
Nathan stuck his nose in as I am told he has before.
It was decided it would be better if I not attend.
Keep in mind, this meant Steven CHOSE to face “Regular” and Nathan alone.
Nathan chose not to attend. I could not have known that.
It was my decision alone to do a drive by.
I’m sorry something has been said that wasn’t what it was meant! I guarantee this — you are an admired person by those I’ve spoken with! Nothing secretive! Nathan has been threatening to me (in my opinion!) so I won’t be where he is and out of consideration, friends have met me without him knowing where we were meeting. It hasn’t ever been a talking about others meeting! always a fun, meet and greet and get to know one another better. I would love to have lunch on the 1st! I’ll email and find out if that is possible! Sorry if I said something that I shouldn’t have. It’s so much easier in person!
I realize that this is nothing Steven did. I dno’t have an issue with Steven. I have an issue with what YOU did JR.
And it is something I would expect regular to do.
“As for GS, are you all really that scared of her? ”
I’m not scared of her. I just have no desire to breathe the same air as her.
The preference is for a con free meetup. I think you have amply told us you prefer not to attend.
I’ll be waiting for your email Linda, I’ll be thrilled to have lunch with you.
You are disappointed by me political mama. That’s fine.
Let the record show, I am disappointed by you as well.
An open meet up is an invite to folks who will drive people away. YOUR pals among them. That is a proven fact.
I respectfully suggest you organize your own meet up.
Oh my goodness.
Now I am threatening and stalking Linda?
When did this start happening?
I might mention, to make a point here, that my father set up the original WE blog meet up. I was there.
I have been to at least 3 other meet ups.
At no time was I ever threatening, rude, mean, or anything other than polite and nice like any normal person would be.
I am a legend in your own mind Linda.
If you liberals want to meet without me, fine. My life will go on.
I just wonder why you ever bothered to come by my fathers work place to give him a peace offering if you never planed on making any real peace with him or me?
Sheesh.
Also,
I have apologzed more times than I can count for what happened at Julies meetup and for my comment.
Sucks to be a Lib.
They have to have so many qualifiers just to meet someone. :D
“Now I am threatening and stalking Linda?
When did this start happening?”
Since she started posting.
You did it to farmgrrl too. You and your Dad.
As you say, “I was there”.
Maybe political mama wants to meet you Nathan.
I don’t care if I ever see you again.
lindainks55
Posted June 26, 2008 at 11:45 pm | Permalink
“You’re hearing ALL wrong on the Steven / Regular meeting! It had been set up as a meeting between Regular and J R and Steven ONLY! It was set up on the blog so everyone knew of the when and where. I think it might have even been an open invite?? Nathan posted he would like to attend and Regular said of course he would be welcomed. Steven emailed J R and suggested it might not be a great idea if he was there with both Regular and Nathan. There were some nasty exchanges between those two and this was a place Steven knew the owners, was a regular… (NO distinction here between who was at fault, just an animosity that existed!) When Steven went to the lunch meeting he hadn’t heard back from J R so really didn’t know whether he would or wouldn’t be there. Later it was learned J R wanted to be there, didn’t go out of respect for Steven’s advice (but didn’t let Steven know!), did drive by the place he wanted to be… what webs we weave!”
Thank you Linda. The above would be the story.
I have never in my life received more shit for buying a poor dude lunch. Believe me, I will not do it again.
Regular,
I am convinced that they don’t want to meet in public face to face because they know they would have to be nice or look like jerks.
Not my problem.
I have no desire to be mean or rude. I only do it here to make a point. Which is not ever going to get across.
The more mean I get here, the liberals like Steven, Clark, and BJ try to go even more mean.
It is pointless. All they have is being mean here now.
Steven,
Perhaps if you didn’t use that meeting as a way to talk bad about Regular you wouldn’t get so much crap…
Since then you and JR both have used that to belittle Regular. Why wouldn’t we think the whole thing was a set up once we found out JR drove by?
Nathan, Your Dad is a nice pleasant and interesting man. I went to his office, introduced myself and we spoke a few pleasantries. I took him a gift my granddaughters made! He seemed like someone I wouldn’t mind knowing better. Differences in political philosophies didn’t enter into talking about how much we care about our dogs and how our families are, what we do daily…
YOU are not someone I’ve ever met and from the postings you make here I hope I never meet you! You’ve never seemed pleasant, interesting or like anyone I would care to meet or know more about! The very first time I ever posted to you it was met with rudeness and hate. It didn’t get better, it got worse! I don’t need to be around that hate! I’ll go out of my way to avoid you! I’ve told you this several times in no uncertain terms. Your posts are hateful and scary to me. I’ve tried hard to ignore you and would prefer you ignore me! Please?
Look we complain that the cons don’t police their own, what’s wrong with saying…hey, if you’re going to meet someone, be honest about your intentions and don’t freaking stalk people?
We’re all supposed to be adults. Adults don’t act like high school children. Heck this is even middle school crap.
When I met KsGolftesticles, it took all the fire out of my fierce dislike of him. seriously. He was nothing like he represented himself as being. I fight with others on other blogs, and we all have a good time when we get together in person. Some that I fight with I find that I like very much in person.
Of course there are others, but generally the trolls prefer to stay away from social events.
Linda,
Are you kidding me? I can go back to that blog and easily post all the rude and mean things you said about me. That Wendy said about me.
I even tried to make things better and offered to try to make amends.
You ignored me.
Then you started coming over to this blog and posting about me.
That is when I started responding to you.
That is why I constantly call you a hypocrite.
Nathan, I can! I have the WHOLE two days of conversation. And I promise you don’t want it posted here. It won’t show ell in you favor. But if you push it will be posted! Now just STOP!!
Nathan, grow up. You don’t post just to see how mean you can be. Why not try being nice unless there is a legitimate reason to be mean?
I’ve met your dad too, and I didn’t think anything wrong about him. I don’t like his opinion. You however, are one messed up cookie.
Childish freaking bs. I swear.
I don’t think that Steven went into that to set up Regular. Seemed like you had a lot to do with how the whole thing turned out.
And you know what? I have been told stuff in emails that I never repeat. And some are trying to make me out to be a traitor because I talk to ‘the enemy’ off the blog and don’t share with ‘my side’??? That’s another GROW THE HELL UP. When someone tells me something in confidence, I keep it quiet.
The first time I posted to you was while you were in Iraq. You were so hateful and everything mean. I don’t even have the words to describe your posts. I posted and very politely asked if maybe you needed sleep or something to help you be calmer or … I told you I wanted so badly for you to represent Americans at their best…
This was back when you could mouse over our nics and get our email addresses. Your Dad emailed me privately and asked me to be patient and understanding. Told me you were going though a lot and you were so much more than what your posts indicated.
I stopped! I never again posted to you while you were gone and for a good while after you returned! I honored your Father’s request!
But you know what — you’re just nasty and mean and hateful! You aren’t there any longer. You aren’t in any more danger than any other American and you are still nasty and mean and a very poor example of a Marine!
Well, if I may correct Steven. I went to the meeting and said nothing bad after.
The JR J.Ryan Remil starting chiming in with his comments about my looks, joined later by Steven Davis.
So pardon me if I have a different opinion about the meeting. It was pleasant and had nothing bad to say.
I’m not the one that started the crap, nor do I take crap either, as everyone knows.
Steven Davis got his back up when I spoke up for myself. Sucks to be Steven Davis.
I must have missed that political mama.
I AVOIDED “Kansas golf nut”. I would not dignify him by meeting him. At the same meetup at the Eagle, I did not acknowledge Hank.
You had better figure out just what side you are on there political mama.
Posted by Linda towards me in one of our very first discussions. Nothing I had said to here was anywhere near this mean:
“I just want you to know how much I don’t admire you as a person. How much I am ashamed that you do represent my country. I think a person who is as disrespectful as you does a poor job of representing the country I take such pride in!
posted 446 days ago”
http://dubya.instantspot.com/blog/
You see Libs, JR is a problem, you need to drop him like a hot potato. He causes nothing but grief for you Libs.
Clark you won’t have to worry about, he won’t come to any meetings, nor will the Capn.
What side? jesus christ JR, how about we just start wearing gang colors and make up hand signs too?
Perhaps we can all go to the bathroom together?
Maybe we can create a secret fort in the woods?
(rolls eyes)
More of Linda’s loving words towards me:
“Will,
I know how you feel. I know you are a proud American, as am I. Ignore the insults. I will! People who behave as Nathan don’t affect me. There is no reason to listen to what he says. He does my country a disservice!
posted 446 days ago”
PMama — Send me email where you want to do lunch next Tuesday… I will do my best to join you as well… :-)
regular, you’re just the same if not worse. you have shown how very much of a liar you are time and time again. I do feel sorry for you as you seem to have nothing positive in your life. But you create that for yourself as well.
I could post the really nasty and mean comments WS Clark was making about me as well.
Did Linda care about those? Nope.
This is what Linda had to say about WS Clark when he was saying mean and nasty things to me:
“I claim allegiance to friends like Will because he deserves my allegiance! He is a thoughtful, intelligent, kind, funny, interesting man. I’ve enjoyed getting to know him. I look forward to getting to know him better. He isn’t perfect, neither am I. We both make mistakes and admit them. We like to exchange information and sometimes plain silliness. Believe me, we know the difference! We both get along with people who have different political philosophy. We just don’t think much of those who think it’s their way or the highway. There are two sides to every story. Most people are interested in hearing both and understand each person will choose what fits them best. I don’t have a problem with people who think differently than I do. I have a problem with those who can’t accept that I might not agree with their thoughts but my different thoughts are just as worthy.
posted 446 days ag”
Go meet up with James McCluer there political mama.
Ya Nathan, I’ve heard that before, after Nam, during the Clinton administration and currently.
And people wonder why I have an attitude towards Libs.
#
Political_mama
Posted June 27, 2008 at 1:02 am | Permalink
regular, you’re just the same if not worse. you have shown how very much of a liar you are time and time again. I do feel sorry for you as you seem to have nothing positive in your life. But you create that for yourself as well.
————————-
You think you know me PMom, but you don’t.
There for a long time, I was very nice to you, complimenting you and encouraging your activism.
Then, all of sudden you started blasting me out of the clear blue.
Have no idea why, but you showed me your true colors.
In our first exchange Linda, I called you a dupe.
That was it.
I also said your opinion was wrong.
That was it.
After that both you and WS Clark went on to say some very mean and hateful things about both my father and I.
Not only did you not show any bit of outrage at the mean and nasty things WS Clark was saying about me, you basically endorsed it.
Now you sit here over a year later trying to say I am the one who started being mean and nasty?
I can pull up an entire record of my trying to be nice, make things right, to apologize, etc…etc…etc…
The only person with the problem here is you Linda.
I love J R! I love his mind, his passion, his desire to do and be something good for himself, his son and all of humanity.
He does post some stupid stuff! (DON’T WE ALL!?) He gives at least as good as he gets. And he gets a LOT! He sticks up for himself. I can’t do that as well and sometimes I wish he would give me lessons. Maybe I’m beyond learning. Probably!
He makes his own way through life, works harder than most people and has some health issues he never talks about or complains about.
We all are people and we all have our own troubles and issues. We don’t ever consider that each of us are WAY MORE than our posts! We’re all news junkies, very opinionated and we’re here seeking someone to listen to what we have to say.
Isn’t it strange that we can accept the most passionate who agree with our opinions and think the ones who disagree passionately are total a**holes?
Linda,
lets post the conversation, I am no hiding from any of it.
Even now this is what you say about me, while trying to say I am the mean and hateful one?
“you’re just nasty and mean and hateful! You aren’t there any longer. You aren’t in any more danger than any other American and you are still nasty and mean and a very poor example of a Marine!”
How much more of a Hypocrite can you be Linda?
You don’t even remember our first exchange, Nathan! Your memory is waaay down the road from the first!
By the time you started posting at Wichita Voice I had already formed a very negative opinion of YOU! You never did anything to indicate I should reconsider my opinion.
Come on Linda?
Defend the things you said about me while trying to say I was the one who was nasty in the beginning.
Hypocrite! Liar!
Nathaniel,
Dennis Avery, an agricultural economist, LIED about what 100’s of climate scientists believe.
Come on… be honest Nathaniel!!
Don’t you think that it’s very humorous that YOU have insisted that Avery is a credible source re AGW science?
The problem is that a few Libs on this blog don’t like to discuss. They attack personally.
Then, when I attack back, they get all indignant and self-righteous. boo-hoo
If they can’t discuss the issues, then don’t use personal crap to attack the person.
Even when I make a comment about the status of Libs, that’s not a personal attack, but some Libs think it is.
When I say duh Libs, it’s a generalization, not anyone specific.
Some are so paranoid, they think I’m talking about them.
That is fine with me Nathan! I have a problem! I am the only one with the problem! Please realize I have problem and keep you distance from the crazy woman with a problem!
You and your father are bullies Nathan.
Three years of trading posts with you proves it.
As I told Linda the other day, she should not feel constrained by niceties.
There is very little respectable in your father and nothing respectable in you Nathan.
Linda,
As I have shown, you were far more mean and nasty to me than I have ever been to you.
You sided and endorsed the one person who was far more mean and nasty thatn ANYONE has ever been let alone me.
Now you sit here playing the victim card like I am the guilty one?
what she wrote wasn’t flattering but it wasn’t mean and hateful and it certainly didn’t deserve you to go all out on her. Her words were careful, and yours were not.
Perhaps you should listen instead of injecting what you want to hear nathan.
Regular, I don’t recall anything you said that was nice to me. Perhaps that was one of your other names. Its not my fault if I cannot identify you under other names.
The only person that I recall giving me any encouragement on the con side is Sol and Mr Kia. And just because one is nice doesn’t mean we can’t still blast each other on issues we disagree with.
Linda,
You continue to be one of the biggest Hypocrites on this blog and the other one.
Don’t ever pretend like you are innocent.
I have never said anywhere close to the mean and nasty things you have said to me.
I am whatever horrible things you want me to be Nathan! Stay away from me! Don’t read anything I post — I am a crazy hypocrite and much much worse. You do not want anything to do with such a stupid crazy person!
Hansen is not a climatologist nor does Hansen have a degree in climatology. There are some skeptic Climatologists that have real PhD’s in climatology and have stated their reasons why AGW is false science.
Hansen should listen to the real PhD climatologists who know what they are talking about.
Ok fine nathan, now leave her alone. As long as she doesn’t post to you, don’t post to her.
Politicalmama,
How much more insulting can someone be to a Marine than to say something like this?:
“I just want you to know how much I don’t admire you as a person. How much I am ashamed that you do represent my country. I think a person who is as disrespectful as you does a poor job of representing the country I take such pride in!”
Just because you say an insult eloquently doesn’t change the hurtful words contained in said insult.
And EVERYONE listen carefully — I have been a victim and I won’t ever be a victim again! Only a person who has been me and where I’ve been would understand that. Trust me, I don’t act the victim on a blog. I know what a victim is!
#
Political_mama
Posted June 27, 2008 at 1:12 am | Permalink
what she wrote wasn’t flattering but it wasn’t mean and hateful and it certainly didn’t deserve you to go all out on her. Her words were careful, and yours were not.
Perhaps you should listen instead of injecting what you want to hear nathan.
Regular, I don’t recall anything you said that was nice to me. Perhaps that was one of your other names. Its not my fault if I cannot identify you under other names.
The only person that I recall giving me any encouragement on the con side is Sol and Mr Kia. And just because one is nice doesn’t mean we can’t still blast each other on issues we disagree with.
————————–
That’s the problem and you have identified it Pmom, it’s your lack of observation.
I have said, “you go girl” many times to you. Gave you great praise for your organizational efforts in your protest and lately in the Caucus.
In return, I got the multi-nic treatment and rude remarks. If I was hiding under other nics, why should I even sign on as Regular?
I could just show up as whomever right?
Think about it.
Thanks linda.
You are doing fine.
There are just some folks you can’t trade nice with.
So post what it was that she was referring to rather than her response Nathan.
Obviously you said something that was pretty hateful, that prompted your father to ask her to go easy on you.
Sorry for whatever happened to you lindainks. My sister was a victim of rape twice. Today, she is a strong woman, personally likable and an outstanding citizen.
Not saying that’s what happen to you, but if it is, I understand it.
However, adversities can be overcome even though they linger in your mind. Don’t let it control your life.
Here we are once again…
The liberals circling the wagons for the hateful things that they say while trying to point the finger of guilt at those they insult.
Politicalmama,
Figuring that you started off a thread the other day insulting my service with your hateful comments what makes you the one to be judge of the hateful comments about my service made by another?
What sheer lunacy.
From this day forward, I will be nothing other than a decent poster here.
I may slip up with the occasional nitwit remark, but I will apologize for any such infraction and do my best to not say such things.
I will point out everyday the mean and hateful things said by many of you here.
Lets just see who are the mean and nasty ones.
Will any of you do the same?
Regular, you’ve been posting way way way longer than when I was at caucus. And at the time, some of you were very much trying to drive a wedge between the dems. So I took that as quite disengenuous rather than supportive.
Politicalmama,
The only thing I had done was to call her a dupe and to say her opinion was wrong.
Even after that I tried to smooth things over and admitted I was a bit mean.
Did Linda care?
Did Linda stop saying the mean hateful things she did?
Did Linda ever do one thing to say that WS Clark was wrong for the mean and hateful things he said about me which were at least 10 times worse than anything I had said?
No.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted,
“And people wonder why I have an attitude towards Libs.
————-
I don’t wonder at all.
‘Regular’ is just a pathetic, hate-filled, “Kansas values”(sic) liar.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/06/fema-learned-lessons-of-katrina/#comment-374440
I usually only conversed, albeit comparatively with JR, Capn, cosmos and Clark. Very little with anyone else.
I didn’t even address lindainks until JR kept bringing her up why she left the blog, didn’t even really know her.
The only thing I remember from the early blog about you Pmom is that you and GSheridan used to go after each other.
Don’t think I ever said much to you one way or the other.
Nathan I was trying to make a point. Your father was LAUGHING about the treatment he gave to Kerry and boasted about supporting that venture.
So I used that as an opportunity to let you know just how awful I thought it was. It didnt’ feel good now did it? You all act like you can do anything to anyone until the stakes are turned back on you, and then you act as if it’s all unfair. Well duh.
I used you merely as an example until you came in on fire about it. You give as good as you get and you know it.
Naw cosmos, I post that to taunt you and make you dance to my tune.
so cosmos,
Dance PUPPET Dance!
You took the bait once again.
Linda,
You say you do not play the victim on the blog.
Then what was your intent above by trying to say that I was the one who started being so mean and nasty to you?
Why do you accuse me of stalking you and threatening you?
When have I ever done any of those things?
Please show me where I started being mean and nasty to you or how anything I said was half as bad as what you said about me later?
You started throwing the accusations around. Why?
If you are going to ignore me, do so.
Please don’t make comments about me that are not truthful.
Yeah me and GS still go after each other, and we’re still friends off the boards.
Yo, multi-nic’d ‘Regular’…
Climatologist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Climatologist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Dr. James E. Hansen
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/
—————-
Economist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Economist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Ecologist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:ecologist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Weathercaster
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/weathercaster
Politicalmama,
I don’t deny that I have at times given it as good as I have gotten it.
I am pointing out that Linda sits here acting like I was the only one who was mean and nasty when she said things and sided with people who said far worse.
It is not I who think things are unfair. It is Linda trying to say things about me which are not true.
As I said. I will not be mean any more.
Can you do the same? Will you do the same?
I apologize for the mean things I said about your and your father that day. They were uncalled for.
I was thinking that I could make a point, but I was wrong for doing so.
Political_mama
Posted June 27, 2008 at 1:23 am | Permalink
Nathan I was trying to make a point. Your father was LAUGHING about the treatment he gave to Kerry and boasted about supporting that venture
———————–
So Pmom? That’s a political point. Sure it might stick in your craw, but it’s an opinion point.
It’s not talking about anyone here personally.
When you Libs learn to discern what is political opinion and what is personal, then you might get somewhere.
Me? If I get attacked personally, I go for the throat.
Hate my opinions, but keep my personal life out of it and attacks on me personally.
“You took the bait once again.”
———
And you, multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ again proved that you are a LIAR.
You are a bully Nathan. You and your dad.
I saw it when farmgrrl started posting and I see it now.
I have endured it these last three years.
The very first, serious, personal attack on this blog was made by your father against me.
Cosmos,
You could seriously be out there doing something more positive to save the world than trying to debate with people when you say the debate is over.
If AGW is such a problem, then why waste your time here?
cosmos,
It takes more than a dictionary to get a PhD in climatology.
Hansen does not have a PhD in Climatology. Hansen is not a Climatologist. Hansen is a Physicist. Hansen has a PhD in Physics, therefore he is a physicist, not a climatologist.
So easy, even a caveman can understand that cosmos.
BlueJay,
My father made an insinuation about you that was not true. As soon as you pointed this out my father apologized to you.
He has apologized to you several times now.
You continue to hold it over his head?
Why?
To this day my father has never said the same thing to you.
Naw cosmos, you are just too easy. You are a caricature of what a Lib is in my mind. Single-minded with narrow views. You cosmos, are the red neck of Libs.
“Yeah me and GS still go after each other, and we’re still friends off the boards.”
My book that makes you an idiot, and a panderer political mama.
We all get carried away. The trick is to learn when to just walk away.
thank you for your apology Nathan. I would never spit upon you, and I apologize for saying it. I was trying to make a point.
But I do stand by my assertion that if you’re proselytizing while in uniform and harassing those for religion you should be discharged.
And none of you on your side ever answered the question on whether or not it was better to cover the actions of wrong soldiers or to do the right thing and testify on what happened.
#
BlueJay
Posted June 27, 2008 at 1:34 am | Permalink
“Yeah me and GS still go after each other, and we’re still friends off the boards.”
My book that makes you an idiot, and a panderer political mama.
————————-
Ah JR,
And after the females on the blog try to make nice to you.
Shameful, intolerant attitude Junior.
I don’t really care what you think JR. I happen to know things that you’ll never know. That makes me informed and a whole lot better understanding of the situation than you do.
You AND your father have made several insinuations about me Nathan.
You both alternate between apologizing and then…. doing it again.
Peace? No thanks.
I hate you and you hate me. I am just more honest about it.
#
Political_mama
Posted June 27, 2008 at 1:38 am | Permalink
We all get carried away. The trick is to learn when to just walk away.
thank you for your apology Nathan. I would never spit upon you, and I apologize for saying it. I was trying to make a point.
But I do stand by my assertion that if you’re proselytizing while in uniform and harassing those for religion you should be discharged.
And none of you on your side ever answered the question on whether or not it was better to cover the actions of wrong soldiers or to do the right thing and testify on what happened.
————————-
That’s an easy one to answer PMom.
We are required by the Code of Military Justice to report all unlawful, willful misconduct and anti-social behavior or conduct unbecoming. That’s for active duty status.
As retired or someone on inactive reserve, we don’t have to say anything.
One thing is for sure, I’m not going to turn anyone in, not on active duty for their political or religious views. This is America by gum and freedom of speech still reigns.
If an active duty person appears to get out of line, I would caution him that his words might be monitored. Doubt I would ever turn them in though.
But Uncle Sugar does have big eyes and sees a lot. A warning from me about any misconduct gives them notice.
I don’t consider political ideology or political opinion misconduct if they are not using the uniform as a platform.
I hate you; You hate me;
I shot Barney happily;
When the shots rang out,
Barney hit the floor —
No more purple dinosaur!!
Good night; Good luck; God Bless –
Whastever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
So mote it be!!
Poltical_mama,
There are already rules in place in the military regarding proselytizing.
You are not allowed to use the Uniform to endorse things or political parties.
However, while someone is in uniform they are still entitled to have faith and share that faith with others.
I am not supposed to go around trying to convert everyone I see, but I am allowed to have bible studies, invite people to those bible studies, offer prayer for others, and even talk to others about my faith.
Why would you have a problem with that?
I am not talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Simply sharing my faith in any normal discussion.
Being discharged for those things? That is an unfair punishment.
There are many other levels of punishment to go through before simple discharing someone for those things.
Why do you feel that these actions deserve more severe punishment than others?
It is always better to do the right thing as well.
I would never condone covering something up simply to save someones rear end.
BlueJay,
I dont hate you.
Sorry. I have never said that I do either.
You are the only one to say that you hate here between the two of us.
And here we are back where we started.
Political mama prefers an open con attended meet up.
Go for it political mama. Not a place I want to be.
I would never condone covering something up simply to save someones rear end.
Ya Nathan, we both know that a cover up is viewed harshly by the military. We’d end up in Leavenworth with a worse sentence, most likely, than the crime we were covering up.
The military has no tolerance for cover ups.
Thats too bad BlueJay.
You shouldn’t allow yourself to be so consumed with hate.
Having your heart filled with hate only hurts you, not the person you hate.
Just a thought.
Then why do you hate Kerry so for speaking out against those attrocities that he has reported?
That’s the proper thing for a soldier to do. INstead you treat him like a sellout, a traitor to his fellow soldiers instead of to the US. Do you really think that when our soldiers act badly, that it reflects WELL on the US?
Proselytizing and sharing your faith is a very fine line. I’ve seen how you ’share’ your faith. And if you’re harassing others in the name of your religion while you’re on duty, then that should be a dischargeable offense.
So don’t go JR.
Like I said Nathan, honesty.
Good night. Invite your new pal political mama to the gated community clubhouse.
#
Political_mama
Posted June 27, 2008 at 1:51 am | Permalink
Then why do you hate Kerry so for speaking out against those attrocities that he has reported?
That’s the proper thing for a soldier to do. INstead you treat him like a sellout, a traitor to his fellow soldiers instead of to the US. Do you really think that when our soldiers act badly, that it reflects WELL on the US?
Proselytizing and sharing your faith is a very fine line. I’ve seen how you ’share’ your faith. And if you’re harassing others in the name of your religion while you’re on duty, then that should be a dischargeable offense.
————————————
Because Pmom, Kerry knowingly or unknowingly gave false testimony about what had occurred. It turned out and this is from FBI files, that a few Winter Soldiers that Kerry depended on for eyewitness testimony were (A)not even in the military or (B)never served in Vietnam.
Besides, to me, Kerry is a hack politician. He panders way too much, flip flops and was just wrong for the country. His false testimony before Congress was a national disgrace.
The religious thing is something else.
I’ve noticed some Libs get into their “eye rolling” mode if you even say the words “Jesus Christ” or that you are a Christian.
Again, the problem lays more with Lib and their interpretation. Don’t want to hear it? Go somewhere else.
Don’t want to read it? Don’t read it.
It’s really that simple.
Political_mama,
You didn’t say why it should be a dischargeable offense.
What makes that action so much worse than anything else?
Why shouldn’t the offender be given a chance to learn the wrong of his ways with a much lesser punishment rather than end his career?
I never said I hated Kerry for what he did. I believe that what he did was very disingenuous.
He didn’t go about the proper channels of trying to correct the things he says he seen. Instead he uses it as a political platform after the fact.
That is what upsets so many Veterans.
If you talk to Jessica, I won’t be your friend anymore.
Seriously! GROW UP MAN.
BlueJay,
My father, Mary and I can’t seem to find this gate you are keep talking about to our community.
Actually, since any of us have lived there, there has been no gate.
What are you talking about?
“Because Pmom, Kerry knowingly or unknowingly gave false testimony about what had occurred. It turned out and this is from FBI files, that a few Winter Soldiers that Kerry depended on for eyewitness testimony were (A)not even in the military or (B)never served in Vietnam.”
SOME of them, not all of them. And much of that has been verified by other sources, and don’t tell me the government doesn’t like coverups.
“Besides, to me, Kerry is a hack politician. He panders way too much, flip flops and was just wrong for the country. His false testimony before Congress was a national disgrace.”
his testimony was not false. If you don’t like him for his views that’s fine, but go on that rather than disgracing his service.
“The religious thing is something else.
I’ve noticed some Libs get into their “eye rolling” mode if you even say the words “Jesus Christ” or that you are a Christian.
Again, the problem lays more with Lib and their interpretation. Don’t want to hear it? Go somewhere else.”
If you’re at work, at school, you shouldn’t HAVE to listen to it. We shouldn’t have to go somewhere else. That’s not where it belongs. You can be your religion without imposing it upon others. Our nation is great for our freedom of ideas, you bullying others with your beliefs is not legal nor is it appropriate.
Perhaps BlueJay is confused by your pasture and barn gates Nathan. :D
Political_mama,
The largest issue I have with Kerry was his throwing his medals away. Or Ribbions. Or Medals. I am not sure what story he is going with as of recent. Sorry.
He did far more to disgrace his own service than I ever could.
I simply point that out.
If you’re at work, at school, you shouldn’t HAVE to listen to it. We shouldn’t have to go somewhere else. That’s not where it belongs. You can be your religion without imposing it upon others. Our nation is great for our freedom of ideas, you bullying others with your beliefs is not legal nor is it appropriate.
————————————
I don’t disagree with that Pmom. Work or school are not the proper venue to discuss your personal ideologies or faith, especially to those who don’t want to listen to it.
However, this blog is not work or school. :)
Goodbye political mama.
Climatologist
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Climatologist&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Nice cosmos, which one of those definition will get some one a PhD in Climatology?
I’ll wait for your answer.
The world is coming to and end and we must act now!
Well, except for Cosmos.
He has all this time to sit around here debating with us when they say the debate is over.
Go out and save the world Cosmos!
okay, I’m outta here. Cya later Nathan, PMom and lindainks. You too Junior.
tomorrow is another day.
wait…
we are in tomorrow…but good night anyway. :)
Come on Nathaniel Price! Be honest!!
Don’t you think that it’s very humorous that YOU have insisted that the lying agricultural economist, Dennis Avery, is a credible source re AGW science?
Doesn’t your own, very dumb claim make you ROFL?
If someone else made that very dumb claim, wouldn’t you be ROFL at them?
Very well. Parkay has cited his source; we can’t accuse him of inventing these statistics.
However, I do not necessarily blindly believe everything the source alleges. I take somewhat of an issue with the following, speaking only personally, of course:
“Not many would allow their daughter to be exposed to these chances with her life…”
Come again? My mother not only didn’t care whom I was dating, she was wholly contemptuous when I suffered a breakdown three years after my abortion. What is the author’s overarching point here? That avoiding my abortion would have radically erased my mother’s prodigious issues? I find that rather simplistic.
I suffered no physical “complications” from my abortion. I did, however, experience emotional repercussions which are difficult to articulate. Therefore, I cannot wholly dismiss the author of this article. Unlike the author, however, I remain somewhat disdainful of his closing sanctimony:
“Of course, the most important element here would be the woman’s eternal soul. Without the necessary forgiveness for an abortion, it will likely be quite bad. But many of us only think only a few years down the road.”
The author is a devout Catholic. Thus, he should remind himself that confession is, above all, private. The confessor is a conduit – an intermediary – between the penitent and God. It is the confessor’s responsibility – not the author’s – to judge the penitent’s subjective culpability.
Of course, the author neglects the “soul” of my rapist/impregnator. Being male, he evades all responsibility.
Yes, Parkay has cited his source. Whether I believe his source is another matter.
“Steven Davis got his back up when I spoke up for myself. Sucks to be Steven Davis.”
James, you have no clue, what-so-ever, about what an insignificant piece of crap you are. I would not waste any emotional energy feeling one way or the other about you.
I have always been amused as to how the Prices’ insist on civility being extended towards them, but they owe none to anyone else. They are studies in pathological narcissism. Makes me feel sorry for poor ole Joyce.
Geez.
I do, with all due respect, have to correct something.
“You did it to farmgrrl too. You and your Dad.”
Neither Hank nor Nathan has ever stalked me.
Nathan has, in my opinion, harassed me, and chased me around the blog, but I’ve done the same to him in the past. Now, I just try to avoid him.
And while Hank has the ability to make me mad as hell, he has said he’s “inexplicably fond” of me, I have to say, I kinda feel the same about him.
GSheridan is the ONLY person who has ever stalked me, which I define as causing trouble for me off the blog. I dont give a rat’s ass what she is or has gone through, there is NO excuse for that. She is perhaps one of the few people in the world that I have to say I might take glee in knowing what her troubles are, since she took so much glee in mine. And feeling joy in someone’s misfortune is not a trait in myself that I want to encourge. So… I pretend GS never existed. And to me, she doesnt.
However, Pmom and I have emailed several times on different subjects, and I never ask her anything about GS. Pmom and I didnt see eye to eye at first either, but I count her as my friend, and have offered to help her with some business stuff. I know she would do the same for me.
Ya know, I was talking with one of my pals in Austin last night and I said, “I have a friend who trains herding dogs”. Even though Hank and I have only met twice. I say “my friend Steven Davis said…” and “my friend JR may come visit”, and “my friend Clark stands up for gay people”.. and so on. (Dont mean to leave any friends out here!)
It is odd how one can bond with folks here, feel like you know them, feel like they are indeed a cherished friend. Like the tractor supply company commercial about the dog who proves “he is a best friend, and a respected colleague” while he stands in and drinks from the same water tank as the saddle horse.
And it is also odd how other folks can come to represent the faceless “other” even if you’ve met them. Sometimes the wingnuts here get an unfair blast from me because I see the face of nother wingnuts they dont even know, but who hurt me and harmed me greatly.
Some of you I feel like I have known for years. And I guess I have.
And others? I hope it is indeed years before we meet!
I didn’t mean to be hard on you political mama.
Here is where I am coming from.
I can only read about it after the fact. But my understanding is that Julie and others went to an awful lot of trouble to organize a meet up about a year ago. Nathan apparently took great pleasure in throwing a bomb in the middle of it and ruining it.
I have some experience with that.
Now, you might think that a meetup would ease tensions in some way. Well that’s true to a point. But only going one way. The very first meetup put a human face on Nathan and Hank. It proved they were not the same person as many had suspected. They were not particularly interesting people but they didn’t have horns or fangs either.
So, it’s my take that in meeting them, I at least let my guard down.
It was not more than a few months later, while I was in the process of organinizing the second meetup, that the Price’s decided to throw out a vile lie about me. They got it out there, spread it around, oh and then oops they were wrong and apologized half heartedly. I invited Nathan to the meetup anyway. Farmgrrl brought LOTS of food and there was much left over. Nathan didn’t hesitate to help himself to much of it.
And then he went right back to business on the blog.
I just am not good at being nice to folks in person who are mean to me and my friends when things move to the blog.
I don’t have much of anything in common interest with the cons. Standing around awkwardly with them for the space of a few hours is something I can do if I have to.
But I don’t have to. I have nothing to gain from such encounters.
That’s the idea behind a con free meetup and the rationale for keeping them from knowing about it. They just are not worth the trouble.
As I read many of the posts above, I am reminded of the quote “we have met the enemy, and they are us”
We get so stuck in our own ways, and so unmindful of other folks, that we no longer hear anything they have to say, whether it can be good or not. They are the “other” and bear no listening to. Whether it is the diehard conservative, who sees liberals as only traitors to their country, or so soft that they will buy into anything, or nothing, or want only a free handout; or the die hard liberal who only sees conservatibes as money grubbing people who have no heart and want to tell others how to live, and would seel their mother for the nickel, and hate all people who are not like them. It’s mostly BS. And it’s mostly proferred by the masters and leaders of such movements, and then bought off by the masses. Then, we forget to listen. Forget that they too have not only a right, but an obligation, to state what they believe is vest for society, and for the country. We denigrate ourselves whenever we denigrate a class of people different from ourselves. Whether that is by race, or gender, or sexual orientation,or gasp, political ideals. Damn. Many of you people, on both sides, rant and rail or whimper about the other side being something you think “your side” is not. Take a look. A good look. If not at yourself, at those whom you choose to side with. Set yourself in the opposite role, and think about how that is. THen go from there.
Personaly, therre are many on this blog that I disagree with, on both sides. Personally, I wish none of them any ill will, they are fellow Americans. Get out of YOUR rut, there is a whole freaking road out there!
Steven,
When have my father or I ever said we expect others to be civil to us while we do not think we should to others?
You keep saying it, but where is the proof?
Would you rather go on here saying mean and hateful things each chance you get or would you rather us get along?
I prefer the later.
“I prefer the later.”
Yeah, right.
Sorry guys. I realize now that both of you are more capable and more willing to be far more mean and nasty than I wish to be.