British MP: ‘Yes, I am a heretic on global warming’
By Ann Widdecombe
Much has been made of my voting with the Gov-ernment to allow the police to detain terror suspects for 42 days, rather than 28, in special cases. Yet there was a more important vote last week, in which I was one of only three Members of Parliament to vote against the might of all parties and defy the Climate Change Bill which will cost Britain hundreds of billions of pounds, will not mean any other country has to follow suit and, as we are responsible for only two per cent of the world’s carbon emissions, will make no difference to the climate or to global warming.
Climate change has become a religion, with anyone who dares to throw?out?a?question?or?two instantly accused of heresy. I have had my doubts for some time, and certainly about major unilateral action on the part of the UK, but these have crystalised since reading Nigel Lawson’s book An Appeal To Reason, subtitled A Cool Look At Global Warming.
Appallingly, this gem could not find?a British publisher because none was brave enough. One wrote: “My fear with this cogently argued book is that it flies so much in the face of prevailing orthodoxy that it would be very difficult to find a wide market.”
Everybody who has English to GCSE standard can understand it and anyone who has uncritically swallowed the belief that the Earth is warming dangerously should open his or her mind at least a little bit.
It is a FACT that there has been no global warming this century, yet never has there been so much production of carbon dioxide, with India and China increasing their activity by the week.
It is a FACT that global temperature has varied throughout history and scientists explain this by changes in solar activity.
It is a FACT that not all climate scientists agree with the prevailing orthodoxy. Those who dare to dissent are treated with about as much respect as Galileo was by the medieval church.
Even if the predictions are true all they offer is a small increase in the globe’s temperature over the next hundred years. As Lawson points out, the difference between the temperature in Finland and that in Singapore is vast but in both countries people thrive and so do their economies. Therefore we might be better off adapting rather than trying to reverse the trend.
I need not go on. You may believe one side of the argument or the other or, like me, you may suspend judgment but until matters are somewhat clearer, I am most certainly not prepared to vote to commit Britain to a course of action which will make not a jot of difference to global temperatures but which could change our way of life and leave us unable to compete with those countries that keep a better sense of proportion.
Some of the worst mistakes are made when all political parties agree. Our entry into Europe is a pretty good example with Ted Heath, Harold Wilson and Jeremy Thorpe all urging a “yes” vote and dissenters dismissed as flat-earthers. Yet what we thought we were joining (a tariff agreement and economic union) was very different from what we are now proved to have joined (a political union with gradual loss of control over our own affairs).
Healthy opposition is needed, if only to ensure that all arguments are heard. The media had a great deal to talk about last week and three MPs calling for a pause for thought over something most commentators consider a cast iron certainty did not get a great deal of attention. Yet the Bill still has some way to go before it becomes law. There is still time for a challenge if anyone is interested enough to take his head out of the sand.
I’m so inspired by yesterday’s bloggers that I’ve been inspired to flights of whimsy. I love Poke-Salad-Annie “Coultergeist” so yummy-much that I’d like to share a delightful little thought. I first thought it last year, but it’s still as prescient this year, in my view. So here goes…..
It is Thanksgiving of 2006. “Coultergeist” is eagerly anticipating the holiday meal, as she’s playing host to the few family members who still claim her, Rush Limberger’s two stomachs who will grace her dinner table, and the male prostitue she has to bribe and/or hold at gunpoint to service her once a year.
Annie trots on over to the grocer’s in search of a suitable bird. Annie being Annie - not any old bird will do. This b–ch has to be as razor-sharp and piquantly pungent as Coultergeist’s acid tongueings. So Annie’s going to town.
She meticulously inspects each bird, pulling its legs apart and peering deep inside to check for the tiniest imperfections. At one point, the store manager has had enough. “What in the World Trade Center are you DOING?” he demands of the reverential social strategist.
“I’m making sure the bird is fresh! It has to be clean!” she retorts loudly.
“Lady, could YOU pass that test?” Mr. Manager asks.
Oh, the Filmfemme is b-a-a-a-a-a-d. But not bad to the bone…………
How come there have been no blog threads about the Haditha incident since July 2006? Now that all but one defendant has had the charges against them dropped is this not news? In the past WE called for a full Senate investigation. Now that the results of an investigation are in there is silence?
Well, isn’t that obvious ProudMan? The Eagle Editors are part of the left-wing press that is more interested in ensuring that the enemy combatants at Gitmo get the proper diet and exercise before being released back to the battlefield to kill our soldiers.
Well, this ought to get the DemLib feathers flying today.
Ha, here we have research confirming EXACTLY what conservatives have known all along, and presented in a concise manner by a respected researcher from Stanford University.
Libs….read it and weep!
“…perhaps conservative ideals are generally better than liberal ones, and those conservative beliefs often lead people to make choices that are more beneficial to our society.
If you don’t believe me, perhaps you’ll believe Peter Schweizer, author of the new book “Makers and Takers” and a research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.
He based his book on academic research, and he said he was careful to avoid information culled from conservative sources.
In contrast to stereotypes of conservatives being greedy, intolerant and selfish, he found that people who identify themselves as liberal were the ones who tended to be more self-serving.
“I think that modern liberalism is so attractive to people because it is an emotionally satisfying belief system that really doesn’t require much from you,” Schweizer said in an interview with the Center for Vision & Values. “Modern liberalism allows you to outsource your responsibilities. The government will take care of the less fortunate. All you need to do is vote for the right candidate and support government programs. Other than that, you are off the hook.”
One of his most surprising discoveries was that liberals value money more than conservatives.
Here are a few more factoids that Schweizer discovered in his research:
• 71 percent of conservatives say a person is obligated to care for a spouse or parent who has been seriously injured, compared with 46 percent of liberals.
• Conservatives have a better work ethic and are much less likely to call in sick than their liberal counterparts.
• Liberals are 2 ½ times more likely to resent the success of others and 50 percent more likely to be jealous of others’ good luck.
Schweizer offers one more critique of liberals: “Claiming sympathy for the poor while actually doing very little for them is a widespread phenomenon on the left. That is because liberals confuse activism with genuine action.”
Well, THANK YOU Peter Schweizer for confirming what conservative have known and seen in liberals all along. And thank you Brent Castillo for bringing it to our attention in the Eagle.
“• 71 percent of conservatives say a person is obligated to care for a spouse or parent who has been seriously injured, compared with 46 percent of liberals.”
Unless it is John McCain or Newt Gingrich and their sick spouses!!
Schweizer — Another CONservative with stretched arms from straining so hard to reach a long ways to pat himself on the back for promoting his own beliefs, through a notoriously Right Wing outfit like the Hoover Institution…
I wonder what McCain is thinking now about McCain-Feingold now? Well, at least he can hit Obama over the head for breaking his promise. If he had enough money to get the message out.
THE BUZZARD:
If you put a buzzard in a pen that is 6 feet by 8 feet and is entirely open at the top, the bird, in spite of its ability to fly, will be an absolute prisoner. The reason is that a buzzard always begins a flight from the ground with a run of 10 to 12 feet. Without space to run, as is its habit, it will not even attempt to fly, but will remain a prisoner for life in a small jail with no top.
THE BAT:
The ordinary bat that flies around at night, a remarkable nimble
Creature in the air, cannot take off from a level place. If it is placed
On the floor or flat ground, all it can do is shuffle about helplessly and,
No doubt, painfully, until it reaches some slight elevation from which it
Can throw itself into the air. Then, at once, it takes off like a flash.
THE BUMBLEBEE:
A bumblebee, if dropped into an open tumbler, will be there
Until it dies, unless it is taken out. It never sees the means of escape
At the top, but persists in trying to find some way out through the sides
Near the bottom. It will seek a way where none exists, until it completely
Destroys itself.
PEOPLE:
In many ways, we are like the buzzard, the bat, and the bumblebee.
We struggle about with all our problems and frustrations, never realizing
That all we have to do is look up!
Sorrow looks back, Worry looks around, But faith looks up!
Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly and trust in our Creator who loves us.
Fleett??? You realize that your link is only to another Blogger… just like any Blogger here??? What is posted there, like posts here, may or may NOT be true!! LOL
The science of fundamentalists. New Orleans was flooded by god because gays were going to have a parade. California legalized gay marriages and the midwest floods. Therefore using fundy science we can suspect a few things: 1) God has bad aim. 2) God hates parades more than he hates gays.
It turns out the North Liberty 2008 Fun Days parade in Johnson County had to be canceled. So that’s proof that god hates parades, not gays. Be sure to cancel any 4th of July parades in Wichita or else we may get flooded.
Monkey,
You should really try learn how to use ‘cut & paste’, it would enormously improve the quality of, and interest in your posts.
But I guess that is simply beyond you.
It’s been a tough month for McCain, first the Supreme Court through out his Torture ‘Em bill, now the GAO has thrown out his Give America Away contract with EADS! If we can’t build our own tanker, we don’t need a military, we can just outsource to Haliburton and Europe.
Of course it’s fair that they have guns and you don’t
John Kass
June 19, 2008
That Washington, D.C., gun ban that the Supreme Court should toss out any day now because it is unconstitutional is often compared to the handgun ban in Chicago.
But what’s not often reported by the decidedly pro-gun-control media is that since Chicago’s anti-handgun law went into effect in 1982, only two classes of people have had ready access to firearms:
The criminals. And the politicians.
Cynics who scoff at everything decent suggest these are one and the same, but taxpayers know the difference.
Criminals are often poor people who are led away in chains and go to state prison, for decades or lifetimes, for using guns as weapons against taxpayers. Politicians wear nice suits, drive luxury cars, and when they go to prison—federal prison, and only for a few months—they go away for using government as a weapon against taxpayers.
Criminals get guns the old fashioned way, by stealing them or buying them illegally. Politicians write the anti-gun laws, and wonder of wonders, they often exempt themselves and call themselves peace officers.
In Chicago, our politicians often go around surrounded by armed bodyguards on the city payroll. Or they walk our streets strapped. Or they know a guy who knows a guy in some suburb, and they become deputized peace officers so they can carry.
Politicians are not violent by disposition. They live in some of the safest neighborhoods, with wrought iron fences, automatic garage doors, cameras on light poles and armed police bodyguards.
Meanwhile, the taxpayers, who live without bodyguards, are told that if they want to protect themselves with a handgun just like the politicians, they themselves will be criminalized.
Mayor Nagin - It’s NOW Hurricane Season! Get your Plans in place, and then wait for Somebody Else to Execute them. Then you can blame Somebody Else next time YOU FAIL to run your own City!
Hurricane Season
The 2008 Atlantic hurricane season will be an ongoing event in the annual cycle of tropical cyclone formation. The season will officially start on June 1 and will run through November 30. These dates conventionally delimit the period of each year when most tropical cyclones form in the Atlantic basin.
A good Christian father works hard to educate his 13 year old son in the ways of Our Lord Jesus. He sends the boy to Greenville Christian Academy and Trinity Baptist School, and for Summer vacation, he ties him to a tree:
Brice McMillan, 41, told Edgecombe County deputies last week that he tied his son to a tree in the family’s yard at 1110 Felton Farm Road and forced him to sleep outside Tuesday and Wednesday nights because he was misbehaving, the Edgecombe County Sheriff’s Office said.
Stepmother Sandra McMillan, 36, found Tyler unresponsive around 4:30 p.m. Thursday after being tied to the tree since Wednesday night. He was pronounced dead at Heritage Hospital in Tarboro.
“Speaker Nancy Pelosi removed a section from a bill passed by Congress which would have barred the U.S. from going to war with Iran without a congressional vote, claiming she did so at the behest of the leadership of Israel and AIPAC. ”
Monkey doesn’t this just show you there are nut cases in every segment of our society. They should be tied to trees and left alone for the same period of time and if still living put in prison for the rest of their worthless lifes. For heavens sake don’t send them to GITMO. That would be to good for them.
But Monkeyhawk, he was raising him with those good Christian values. Greenville Christian Academy focuses on spiritual growth and character building, Trinity Christian School promotes Christian values. It just so happens these Christian values means beating children and tying them to trees until they die.
I’m a godless Atheist and I don’t have good Christian values so I’m going to hell because I don’t value killing children by tying them to trees.
“Monkey doesn’t this just show you there are nut cases in every segment of our society?”
No.
For example, if this particular horrific crime had been committed by say, a gay couple, don’t you think the wing-nuts would be all over it like stink on shit?
If the McMillans had been named say, “Ortiz,” think the racist xenophobes wouldn’t have railed about it?
No. Turns out this particular crime was committed by good “Christian” people
Guys. Let me ask you this. Were the teachings of Christ being followed in your described incident by the moron alleged to have done the damage?
Well, then why would you impugn all Christians when you have folks who might profess Christ (you don’t know do you)crossing over and doing acts that the Godless might do, in direct disobedience to their Master? Hate?
“Guys. Let me ask you this. Were the teachings of Christ being followed in your described incident by the moron alleged to have done the damage?”
Yup. Spare the rod, spoil the child, honor thy mother and father, Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock, etc.
Well, if you had, you would have discovered that, contary to your assertion, the linked blog is nothing like this one. It is is an ABC political writer. Read the link. And like you would tell a child, please don’t bother me again until you have tried to figure it out for yourself.
By Robert Stacy McCain
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
April 2, 2001
There were no nationally televised candlelight vigils for Jesse Dirkhising. No Hollywood celebrities mourned the passing of the 13-year-old Arkansas boy.
The New York Times hasn’t reported how Jesse died of asphyxiation in 1999 after prosecutors say he was bound, gagged and sodomized by a homosexual couple. And the seventh-grader’s death has not caused powerful Washington activists to lobby for new federal laws to punish such crimes.
While the 1998 death of Matthew Shepard in Wyoming provoked a blizzard of media coverage about the death of the homosexual college student, the Dirkhising case is just “a local crime story,” one TV network spokesman explains.
Joshua Macabe Brown, one of two men accused of killing Jesse, was convicted yesterday of rape and first-degree murder in a trial that began March 13.
————————-
Maggot and Monkey do you remember when this happened. Was there a national outcry. Were all gay men drawn and quartered. Of course not because this wasn’t the normal behavior for gay men.
Is it OK for you to lie Maggie? I mean, since you believe that you have no one and nothing to answer to, nothing to represent to the rest of the world?
What am I lying about? It’s not my fault that you aren’t familiar with the moral teachings in the bible. God punishes a bunch of children for mocking a man’s baldness by having them torn apart by bears. Perhaps if you knew about your own religion you’d realize Christianity isn’t child friendly and the parents who murdered their child were just practicing their religion.
I see, Christians practice their religion and murder their son so you need to change the subject. I’m not aware of any homosexual manifesto on how to raise children, but the Christian religion has one. Apples and oranges. You are just upset because the truth of the moral depravity of your religion has been brought to light.
“HLP, when you believe lies you’ll believe anything. Nobody ever shot at any helicopters.”
What? Now I can’t believe that bastion of unbiased and fair reporting, the AP?
I guess all we’re left with is the gang rapes, shooting at police, people too stupid to evacuate and democrat liberal officials pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.
Monkey you sure do have me confused with someone. I have never defended Charles Manson or anyother nut case murderer. Just don’t think it is fair if two nuts who claim to be Christian kill their kids that all Christians are quilty as charged. This is a familiar tactic of the left.
By the way do you discount the story or only the source and if it is the source what does it matter if the story is true and this one is? Another left dodge tactic.
Here’s an altruistic message to all born-agains on this Blog:
Don’t attempt a biblical debate with “Maggotpunk.” He knows more about the bible than I do; he can quote more verses than I ever could. He’s a lifelong atheist; Big Bertha was born and raised Methodist and converted to Catholicism at age 18 (left at 31).
Now, how do you figure this s–t?
Whew - I didn’t know about the part where “God” orders recalcitrant children to be eaten by bears. That’s kinda breathtaking. And just for making fun of some old fool’s baldness?
If “God” will enact that s–t for this sort of benign transgression, just imagine where the FilmFemme’s gonna descend when she kicks the bucket. I guess I should be a-tremblin’ in my pa-tootie right about now.
Outlander: An atheist is an atheist because he can’t lie to himself anymore. Once again your premise is wrong. I don’t need some big daddy in the sky to scare me into doing the right thing.
I don’t lie because lying takes my credibility away from others and I prefer having credibility.
But in answer to your stupid question: I wouldn’t feel bad if I lied. I would feel stupid. Because lying is stupid
How come the Maggot Monk knows more about the Bible than my own priest? My own priest never alluded to those horrible passages.
Has this well-read young man taken a vow of obedience, poverty and chastity, too? Now, I’m trying to get a mental picture of this………..
I’m tryin’ to picture M.P. hearin’ confessions. And I’m getting a fiendish delight from doing so. M.P. was not quite 15 years of age during the spring of my roiling discontent (1989), so I don’t think he could have dealt with this former papist.
My goodness. Someone should have shipped me off to finishing school long ago…….
Somebody of your political stripe shows up in this forum defending Manson because “he never killed anybody.”
Crazies are so hard to keep track of, sometimes.
“Just don’t think it is fair if two nuts who claim to be Christian kill their kids that all Christians are quilty as charged. This is a familiar tactic of the left.”
Of the “left?!”
I note that you have not addressed my citing those who cut-and-paste horrific crime stories involving Hispanic (emphasis on “panic”) names and rail against their perception of “the invasion of the brown people!”
Then you ask –
“…do you discount the story or only the source”
Mostly the source, given its obvious agenda. But mostly in the way this “news” item was presented. The facts of the 1999 Arkansas crime were all there, but the Moonie Washington Times chose to “report” it by drawing in an obvious non sequitur, the Matthew Shepherd murder.
A “left dodge tactic?”
Yeah, right.
You noble CONs would never stoop so low, now would you?
WEll monkey now that you mention it, how did the Matthew Shepherd story rates national coverage and encourage new legislation. Did he die in a more heinous way than that young man in Ark when the gays killed him?
Draw you own conclusions? Just don’t try to change the facts. All groups, ethnic, religious, cultural, social, etc… have extremists in them. Our goal as a nation should be to get rid of the extremists not use these nut cases as a wedge between groups.
Nope - no headbands for this chick. No chantin’, neither. (I might have chanted during an opiate-induced reverie back in 2002, but I forget….)
But I am wearing two colorful flowers in me hair today. As I do most days in the spring and summer. I’m sporting one light green, and one light blue blossom in my crowning glory.
In fact, I’m known for it.
And it ain’t got eff-all to do with “liberal” or “conservative” or anything inbetween. It’s called “fighting the hands of time.” I’m striving to look as youthful as I can before time, encroaching hermaphrodism and/or death wreak their pitiless vengeance upon my aging physique.
I began reading WEBlog at the recommendation of a friend. I assumed it would be an intelligent discussion of current events, not a forum for moronic name-calling and pseudo-intellectuals. My bad.
In Afghanistan, NATO forces are leading a large-scale offensive against the Taliban outside of Kandahar. At least twenty Taliban fighters were killed earlier today. Earlier in the week, the Taliban seized seven towns near Kandahar, Afghanistan’s second largest city.
Meanwhile, a new report from the Government Accountability Office has concluded the US has no comprehensive plan to build Afghanistan’s army and police, which remain poorly equipped and significantly unprepared to operate without help. The GAO said only two of 105 Afghan army units are considered fully capable.
Blackwater Asks Federal Court to Decide Case with Sharia Law
A sister company of the private military contractor Blackwater has asked a federal court to decide a case against the company using the Islamic law of Sharia. Blackwater’s request was made in a lawsuit brought by the widows of three American soldiers who died on one of its planes in Afghanistan. The News and Observer reports that if the judge agrees with Blackwater, it would essentially end the lawsuit, because Sharia law does not hold a company responsible for the actions of employees performed within the course of their work.
What does the good Christian book of values, the Bible, say to do with disobedient children. Let’s take a look at Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
The parents were unbiblical in the sense they didn’t have the townsfolk stone the unruly child to death. Nah, that’s illegal in this secular government. So sure, the family’s behavior is unusual among Christians only in the fact that Christians tend not to follow their moral guidebook. These Christians were following their biblical mandate on child rearing which calls for the execution of disobedient children.
Can the homophobes point to some homosexual scripture to make an accurate comparison? No, of course not because none exists but since when were bible thumpers able to make a logical argument?
Sure you fundies are upset with me because I know your religion better than you. That’s you own fault though, perhaps if you weren’t so ignorant then you wouldn’t be so religious.
Sol,
I’m glad you bring up the forgotten war in Forgottenstan, er Afghanistan. Apparently Afghanistan is threatening war with Pakistan since Pakistan is supporting the Taliban. Pakistan our ally? Yup, we give billions of taxpayer dollars to Pakistan so they can aid the Taliban to kill Americans.
grmagg
Posted June 19, 2008 at 1:32 pm | Permalink
I began reading WEBlog at the recommendation of a friend. I assumed it would be an intelligent discussion of current events, not a forum for moronic name-calling and pseudo-intellectuals. My bad.
————————-
Sorry we haven’t measured up to your standards.
Let’s talk about the numinous concept of non-belief.
“I see, Christians practice their religion and murder their son so you need to change the subject.”
————-
No Maggie, when I’m talking about atheists who lie, I was talking about you. As I mentioned before, when the father of that boy punished him in the brutal way, resulting in his death, it had nothing to do with Christianity. Yet you clumsily try to tar Christians with it. You have no idea if this guy was the Christian he professed to be, do you? If he was, then Satan clearly had won him over.
Since you won’t answer the question about atheist lying, how about this one. Since you don’t believe that people have an immortal soul how is killing a person different than killing a cow? Except that it’s against the law I mean. Just a smarter animal, right?
What the science says…
The correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70’s when the modern global warming trend began.
The correlation between solar activity and temperature
The most commonly cited study by skeptics is a study by scientists from Finland and Germany that finds the sun has been more active in the last 60 years than anytime in the past 1150 years (Usoskin 2005). They also found temperatures closely correlate to solar activity.
However, a crucial finding of the study was the correlation between solar activity and temperature ended around 1975. At that point, temperatures rose while solar activity stayed level. This led them to conclude “during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source.”
You read that right. The study most quoted by skeptics actually concluded the sun can’t be causing global warming.
Ironically, the evidence that establishes the sun’s close correlation with the Earth’s temperature in the past also establishes it’s blamelessness for global warming today.”
————
Please line-up and go thru the Brain Wash. Get a special rainy-day sale today for just $7.50, you can get a Double Wash and Double Wax to ensure the maximum amount of Global Warming Paranoia is soaked into your brain.
As I mentioned before, when the father of that boy punished him in the brutal way, resulting in his death, it had nothing to do with Christianity.
You know, you’re right. It probably didn’t. Nor did it have anything to so with homosexuality. But that’s what you made it into. I guess there is NO abuse of children in the straight world.
As pointed out if they truly knew they might have questions. Better to not know?
Anyone else notice the similarities in okobserver and ksgrm? Those two would enjoy conversing and I bet they would agree often. It’s uncanny how the opinions and the way they’re presented are so alike.
Didn’t ksgrm seem to stop posting around the same time okobserver started? Too bad they weren’t here together to meet and greet.
Cosmos: If I were to say it looks like that after a short period of diversion, we are reestablishing the correlation between solar activity and temperature, how would you disprove it?
We now have stabilizing temperatures coinciding with the continued solar minimum.
“Weapons caches are turning up with increasing frequency in public places in Iraq — from a bakery to a fish farm — as recent security gains embolden more civilians to come forward with tips, U.S. and Iraqi military officials say.”
“Afghan and NATO troops backed by warplanes drove Taliban militants from villages within striking distance of southern Afghanistan’s main city on Thursday, killing 56 of them, Afghan officials said.”
Seems like I might have missed knowing one of the better bloggers. If she was from Ok I know I did. Common sense is taught down here before you go to school.
Fleetwood, if both of those posts are true, it is wonderful news and it’s a beautiful day to be a moderate libertarian. That’s so nice of you to show concern for those “libs”
Predestined
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink
Linda,
And hasn’t ksgrm told us many times that she lived in that state just south of us?
Not saying I think she is okobserver. Just adding another interesting ksobservation.
—————–
No, I think ksgrm lives in Wichita, but she has lived in Oklahoma.
I lived in Oklahoma for awhile too, but doesn’t mean I’m ksgrm or okobserver. They actually have people down there that blog independently of the WE blog, regardless of what paranoid Libs think.
#
Predestined
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:20 pm | Permalink
Film Fan,
I think you’ll find that most atheists know more about the Bible and Christian history than Christians do.
—————————
Oh, I wouldn’t bet on that.
Have any atheist you wish come to my Church and speak to the retired Deacons, Ministers and long time church goers, that have sat through Sunday School, Training unions, Mission studies, sermons and studied the Bible for the past 50-75 years.
You might be amazed at the depth of knowledge these people have.
Vet that would explain those every now and then returns to normal thinking you show. My best friend is a retired geologist from Phillips in Bartlesville. He’s the one who told me these gas prices are a bunch of crap. We have all of the oil we need for hundreds of years. The enviros just won’t let us drill. I am seeing a change in public opinion finally. Sixty seven percent of the general public are now saying drill here, drill now and pay less.
“Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says if Osama bin Laden is captured alive, the United States should bring him to justice but in a way that avoids turning the al Qaeda leader into a martyr.”
Abortionist quack Hamid Hussain Sheikh pleaded not guilty in November to charges that he wrongly billed the state for abortions at his business, fraudulently presenting the killings as ultrasounds. Kentucky state officials have now temporarily suspended the quack’s medical license, and he faces 20 years in prison if convicted on all 4 indictments. Several of Sheikh’s victims reported unsanitary conditions, violations of medical regulations, improper handling of medications and bio-hazardous waste, gross negligence, and abusive treatment.
- - -
The Colorado GOP, or at least the pro-abortion leadership, at the direction of state Republican Party chairman Dick Wadhams, appears to have cut its own throat, by shutting Colorado Right to Life out of having a table at the recent state convention, while allowing the baby-hating Republican Majority for Choice to distribute literature opposing the personhood amendment that will appear on the November ballot.
Delegates, however, overwhelmingly passed pro-life resolutions including a vote of 78% affirming that “life begins at conception.”
Big Tent means a party that stands for nothing.
Never, never, never trust a RINO.
- - -
Diedre Harman, 18, of McPherson, KS, whose 6-week-old daughter was found alive in a garbage bin, will be tried on a child abandonment and endangerment charge. Harman had initially claimed that her baby had been abducted.
- - -
A newborn girl was found by a pastor and his wife Tuesday night in a plastic tub outside the door of their First Baptist Church Bellville, OH. The baby was transported to MedCentral/ Mansfield Hospital and was listed in good condition late Tuesday night.
- - -
Morgan Hite, 22, was extradited from Alaska on charges of first-degree murder in connection with the death of her newborn son in February, and jailed in Grand Junction, CO Friday. Hite’s parents had eventually discovered the tiny body stuffed into a closet.
- - -
A teenage mother’s younger sister found her premature baby alive Saturday, stuffed between a mattress and door, several days after the mother gave birth in Breckenridge, TX, hid the infant there and went on a trip. Lauren Renee McDonald, 19, of Breckenridge was charged with child abandonment and endangerment after she returned from her trip Sunday. She has since been released from jail on a mere $10,000 bail, while the baby remains hospitalized. The attempted murderess faces a mere 2 years in jail.
Regular.
Tell me where, when and with whom. I will meet your experts and discuss the Bible anytime. Then I can report back here as to the depth of their knowledge.
Until then, here are a few items to bring up, so they can prepare:
Is the septuigent greek translation of the old testament a valid translation?
Why does Matthew’s Geneolongy not match with I Chronicles Chapter 3. (It’s pretty close, but 3 people are left out so that Matthew’s glorious number 14 is preserved)
How do they show Matthew 2:15 to be a fulfillment of Hosea 11?
Where is the prophecy about Jesus being a Nazarene?
How is it that Matthew 13:35 and Psalms 78:2 are talking about the same thing?
We can start there. Tell me when they want to meet with me. ANYTIME, ANYWHERE.
Interesting OKOB. I grew up playing soccer with a young man whose dad (Owen Thomas) was head of the Geology department until 1979 when he retired and moved to Utah. Mr Thomas had a different view on the subject.
fleettwood - I’ll second VET and agree that is indeed good news - if true. I would like nothing better than to wake up tomorrow morning and find that Iraq and Afghanistan are suddenly peaceful Jeffersonian democracies.
That is really interesting since the man I knew at Phillips last name was also Thomas. But not the one you knew. Must be a popular name in Bartlesville.
I’m sure they can answer your questions LLVET as there are two that have PhD’s in theology and life long ordained Ministers. There’s even some who have taught at Seminary and Universities. I believe one of the PhD’s has authored several books and the other was a College professor.
Contrary to your belief that Christians might be nothing more than knuckle dragging barbarians, we have all levels of educated people from cooks to Physicians, from janitors to lawyers and from people with low income to multi-millionaires.
OKOB. I don’t care that much about the environmentalists. I also remember my dad losing his job (with Phillips) in the 80s and congress doing nothing about it. Don’t lump me in with the environmentalists. I am just glad I am away from the Buckle of the Bible Belt, Oklahoma.
Regular, want to take the challenge?
OKOB.
I doubt it would be his son (James) they live in Utah and he studied English in college. But why don’t you ask your friend Mr. Thomas who Owen Thomas was. I can’t speculate when he started work at Phillips. I only know that he retired in 1979.
While you are at it. You can ask about Clayton (Or Craig) Reeser. He was VP of Marketing a fews years back. I will assume he still is. Way back when 1980, he was one of our soccer coaches.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane OKOB.
OK cosmos. So you don’t agree that moderating temperatures are moderating temperatures. Instead they are just “noise” temporarily masking the continued climbing temperatures.
Diversity makes the world go around. Ain’t it great. I have been hearing a lot of scientist that agree with his opinion lately. I just saw him last weekend and he does contract work for Conoco Phillips now and hasn’t changed his mind about the reserves available to us.
“My husband best friend through high school was the top geologist for Phillips Oil out of Oklahoma before T Boone bought it up.”
———
ksgrm posted December 13, 2007 at 9:32 pm http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/12/climate-change/#comment-143541
“Being from NE Ok we were close to Phillips Oil in Bartlesville and had lots of friends that worked there. Their top geologist lived next door to my husband growing up.”
———
The oil-friendly U.S. EIA says OPEC would still be in control of world oil prices, even if drilling was allowed in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Cosmos it would appear that me, ksgrm and LLvet have a lot in common right down to knowing geologists at Phillips. Coming from Ne ok that isn’t rare. My sister retired from there and my nephew still works there and your point is what.
OKOB
I suppose we can just write this off to two (or possibly more) experts who all “agree to disagree”
on the issue.
But I suppose I should qualify my post on common sense. I didn’t see MUCH common sense with regard to social matters until I left Oklahoma. Buckle of the Bible belt and all. The science was good. But intellectual exigence was not even tolerated, much less accomadated. That’s why conservatives are seen as so narrow minded.
It’s mostly about how different tribes had different traditions in relaying stories. Matthew was a Levite I think, can’t remember, so he would tell his version differently.
Also, the in the New Testament, one was a genealogy from Joseph and another was a genealogy from Mary. There is no Hebrew word for father-in-law, so it was often translated as ‘father.’
Is the septuigent greek translation of the old testament a valid translation?
Valid or correct? I don’t know that either term is appropriate as most know there are some Hebrew words that don’t translate well into Greek. Interpretation is argued about even among educated theists. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
How do they show Matthew 2:15 to be a fulfillment of Hosea 11?
Exegesis interpretation of a specific quote or text passage is what you are doing LLVET. That is one approach, but has its faults.
Biblical hermeneutic studies require a lifetime of comparison, language study and theological education. Contemporary explanations of past events or even written text often confound the most educated anthropologists because they do not have the proper context of the time in which it occurred. It’s even stickier when one delves into whether or not a Biblical passage is used for reference or if it is use as a prophetic source to predict events. In the latter case of prediction, one has to have the knowledge and experience to translate original text and be highly educated in the customs and traditions along with histories of the passages involved.
I’ll close this for now before it gets too long.
If you wish more clarity, you can contact Dr. Woods, his address and phone number at the following Web page. He’s retired now and does Christian Estate planning, but I’m sure he would be happy to respond to your questions.
Ya, Oklahoma has some spiffy parks. Even back in the day, they had nice parks. We used to go down to Platt National Park in Sulphur Springs on our way to Lake Texhoma to cool off in the cool waters of the mineral springs.
Roman Nose is also a nice park and the lakes with their surrounding areas are just beautiful in southeastern and eastern Oklahoma.
Regular. I will have to talk to your friend. Like Normal. Christians always think that I refer to Luke vs Matthew and bring up their tired old idea about Mary vs Joseph.
This is a different issue. I am talking about First Chronicles (maybe I need to spell it out) chapter 3. It matches very closely, except that there are 3 kings left out so that Matthew’s number 14 is preserved.
This was the issue. Not Mary lineage vs Joseph lineage.
Dr. Woods is a nice fellow. He knows my father and mother well, as they are close to the same age. His home address, email and phone number are on that Web page I gave.
I would reference you to my Uncle, who was a seminary trained ordained, Southern Baptist Minister, but he passed away last year. He would have answered your questions as well.
I come from a long genealogical line of Baptist ministers - all the way from Wales in the late 1600s to the Pennypack Church in Pennsylvania and on to North Carolina, Ohio, Illinois, Kansas.
While I’d love to join you all and I’m sure it would be an interesting time, I’m not an atheist. That, of course doesn’t mean I have a problem with those who are. To each his own, I always say.
From Regular… Contrary to your belief that Christians might be nothing more than knuckle dragging barbarians, we have all levels of educated people from cooks to Physicians, from janitors to lawyers and from people with low income to multi-millionaires.
That description could include just about anyone, so it has nothing to do with the conversation. Religion or lack of has no boundaries. I would expect someone with a doctorate in religion to be more informed than most, but I’m talking about the average man on the street. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
I’m sure that many atheists do know a lot about the Bible. In fact some of the very best Christian apologist writers are former atheists. They wrestled mightily with God and scripture before giving in. C. S. Lewis, and in recent times Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel for example.
Atheists may know about the contents of the Bible. But they have not experienced God.
Ok now Regular. I don’t want to go to this gentleman’s email and say. “Regular sent me” I have heard you referred to as McClure and James. So can I refer to you as James McClure, or is that not correct?
I believe it was C.S. Lewis who said that “..if a doctrine of Biblical infallibility is in any way contrary to the doctrine of the goodness of God, that doctrine of Biblical infallibility is wrong.”
#
LLTVET
Posted June 19, 2008 at 4:59 pm | Permalink
Ok now Regular. I don’t want to go to this gentleman’s email and say. “Regular sent me” I have heard you referred to as McClure and James. So can I refer to you as James McClure, or is that not correct?
——————-
Sure, that’s fine. Just mention I’m Paul and Bonnie’s son, then he’ll understand the relationship. Don’t think he knows me well.
BTW, it’s McCluer, not McClure - slightly different spelling.
Even the great Billy Graham had his crisis of faith in regard to the Bible, as he relates below.
—————————-
“But the Bible is important for a much greater reason: The Bible is the Word of God. Yes, various human authors wrote it—but behind them was another Author: the Spirit of God. Even when they weren’t fully aware of it, God was guiding them so that what they wrote wasn’t just their own words, but God’s Word. The apostle Peter wrote, “No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:20-21). God wanted to speak to us in words we could understand—and the Bible contains those words.
The Bible isn’t just a collection of men’s ideas about God, nor is it a guidebook for living that people developed over the centuries. It is the Word of God—and that makes all the difference. This means the Bible is our authority in everything it touches. This means the Bible is our guide to show us how to live. Most of all, this means the Bible is our instructor, teaching us about God and His plan of salvation in Christ. The Old Testament points toward Christ’s coming; the New Testament tells of His arrival. From Genesis to Revelation we see God’s great plan unfold—His plan to win a lost humanity back to Himself. The central theme of the Bible is salvation, and the central personality of the Bible is Christ.
The Bible is God’s gift to us. It came from God, and it points us to God. The Bible says of itself, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV).
Can We Trust It?
Since the Bible is God’s Word, we shouldn’t be surprised if Satan tries to convince us otherwise. The very first question in the Bible came from Satan’s lips, casting doubt on what God had told Adam and Eve: “Did God really say …? (Genesis 3:1). Then he became bolder, flatly denying what God had said: “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). Ever since that dark day in the Garden of Eden, one of Satan’s most persistent strategies has been to make us doubt the truthfulness and authority of God’s Word.
In the summer of 1949, my team and I were preparing for the most intensive evangelistic mission we had ever attempted, a citywide outreach in Los Angeles, California. Although the press had ignored it, several hundred churches had come together to prepare and pray for the planned three-week-long event. We believed God had led us there, and many were praying He would use the meetings to bring many to Christ.
Just weeks before the mission was to start, however, I experienced a major crisis of faith—the most intense of my life. Some months before, a fellow evangelist whom I respected greatly had begun to express doubts about the Bible, urging me to “face facts” and change my belief that the Bible was the inspired Word of God. “Billy,” he said, “you’re fifty years out-of-date. People no longer accept the Bible as being inspired the way you do. Your faith is too simple.” I knew from my own reading that some modern theologians shared his views.
For months doubts about the Bible swirled through my mind, finally coming to a boil during a conference at which I was speaking in the mountains east of Los Angeles. One night, alone in my cabin at the conference, I studied carefully what the Bible said about its divine origin. I recalled that the prophets clearly believed they were speaking God’s Word; they used the phrase “Thus says the Lord” (or similar words) hundreds of times. I also knew that archaeological discoveries had repeatedly confirmed the Bible’s historical accuracy.
Especially significant to me, however, was Jesus’ own view of Scripture. He not only quoted it frequently, but also accepted it as the Word of God. While praying for His disciples, He said, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth” (John 17:17). He also told them, “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law” (Matthew 5:18). Shouldn’t I have the same view of Scripture as my Lord?
Finally I went for a walk in the moonlit forest. I knelt down with my Bible on a tree stump in front of me and began praying. I don’t recall my exact words, but my prayer went something like this: “O Lord, there are many things in this book I don’t understand. There are many problems in it for which I have no solution. … But, Father, by faith I am going to accept this as Thy Word. From this moment on I am going to trust the Bible as the Word of God.”
When I got up from my knees, I sensed God’s presence in a way that I hadn’t felt for months. Not all my questions were answered, but I knew a major spiritual battle had been fought—and won. I never doubted the Bible’s divine inspiration again, and immediately my preaching took on a new confidence. This was, I believe, one reason why our Los Angeles meetings had to be extended from three weeks to eight.
Don’t let anyone shake your confidence in the Bible as God’s Word. If you have questions about it, don’t use them as an excuse to turn your back on God. Instead, face your doubts and seek answers; you aren’t the first person to ask them. (Your local Christian bookstore can help you.) In addition, read the Bible for yourself with an open heart and mind. Ask God to show you if it truly is His Word—and He will.
Your life will never be the same once you trust the Bible as God’s Word. God will begin to use it to change your life.”
I apologize for misspelling your name. No offense intended. So are you coming along Mr. McCluer? Can I tell him that you will be joining our discussion?
I will check your answer tomorrow. Quitting time and time to see my Granddaughter’s basketball game.
Enjoy folks.
165 Comments
Foreign policy wonks.
http://tinyurl.com/6675c8
British MP: ‘Yes, I am a heretic on global warming’
By Ann Widdecombe
Much has been made of my voting with the Gov-ernment to allow the police to detain terror suspects for 42 days, rather than 28, in special cases. Yet there was a more important vote last week, in which I was one of only three Members of Parliament to vote against the might of all parties and defy the Climate Change Bill which will cost Britain hundreds of billions of pounds, will not mean any other country has to follow suit and, as we are responsible for only two per cent of the world’s carbon emissions, will make no difference to the climate or to global warming.
Climate change has become a religion, with anyone who dares to throw?out?a?question?or?two instantly accused of heresy. I have had my doubts for some time, and certainly about major unilateral action on the part of the UK, but these have crystalised since reading Nigel Lawson’s book An Appeal To Reason, subtitled A Cool Look At Global Warming.
Appallingly, this gem could not find?a British publisher because none was brave enough. One wrote: “My fear with this cogently argued book is that it flies so much in the face of prevailing orthodoxy that it would be very difficult to find a wide market.”
Everybody who has English to GCSE standard can understand it and anyone who has uncritically swallowed the belief that the Earth is warming dangerously should open his or her mind at least a little bit.
It is a FACT that there has been no global warming this century, yet never has there been so much production of carbon dioxide, with India and China increasing their activity by the week.
It is a FACT that global temperature has varied throughout history and scientists explain this by changes in solar activity.
It is a FACT that not all climate scientists agree with the prevailing orthodoxy. Those who dare to dissent are treated with about as much respect as Galileo was by the medieval church.
Even if the predictions are true all they offer is a small increase in the globe’s temperature over the next hundred years. As Lawson points out, the difference between the temperature in Finland and that in Singapore is vast but in both countries people thrive and so do their economies. Therefore we might be better off adapting rather than trying to reverse the trend.
I need not go on. You may believe one side of the argument or the other or, like me, you may suspend judgment but until matters are somewhat clearer, I am most certainly not prepared to vote to commit Britain to a course of action which will make not a jot of difference to global temperatures but which could change our way of life and leave us unable to compete with those countries that keep a better sense of proportion.
Some of the worst mistakes are made when all political parties agree. Our entry into Europe is a pretty good example with Ted Heath, Harold Wilson and Jeremy Thorpe all urging a “yes” vote and dissenters dismissed as flat-earthers. Yet what we thought we were joining (a tariff agreement and economic union) was very different from what we are now proved to have joined (a political union with gradual loss of control over our own affairs).
Healthy opposition is needed, if only to ensure that all arguments are heard. The media had a great deal to talk about last week and three MPs calling for a pause for thought over something most commentators consider a cast iron certainty did not get a great deal of attention. Yet the Bill still has some way to go before it becomes law. There is still time for a challenge if anyone is interested enough to take his head out of the sand.
http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/48856
meetup info?
Good morning P_Mom,
I’ve had a few people ask if I could or would try and organize another one but I’ve really been too busy.
I was going to try and have one this weekend but it didn’t work out.
I would still like to do something at the firing range out here in the morning with a cookout at the club house in the afternoon.
People could participate in either or both.
I’m so inspired by yesterday’s bloggers that I’ve been inspired to flights of whimsy. I love Poke-Salad-Annie “Coultergeist” so yummy-much that I’d like to share a delightful little thought. I first thought it last year, but it’s still as prescient this year, in my view. So here goes…..
It is Thanksgiving of 2006. “Coultergeist” is eagerly anticipating the holiday meal, as she’s playing host to the few family members who still claim her, Rush Limberger’s two stomachs who will grace her dinner table, and the male prostitue she has to bribe and/or hold at gunpoint to service her once a year.
Annie trots on over to the grocer’s in search of a suitable bird. Annie being Annie - not any old bird will do. This b–ch has to be as razor-sharp and piquantly pungent as Coultergeist’s acid tongueings. So Annie’s going to town.
She meticulously inspects each bird, pulling its legs apart and peering deep inside to check for the tiniest imperfections. At one point, the store manager has had enough. “What in the World Trade Center are you DOING?” he demands of the reverential social strategist.
“I’m making sure the bird is fresh! It has to be clean!” she retorts loudly.
“Lady, could YOU pass that test?” Mr. Manager asks.
Oh, the Filmfemme is b-a-a-a-a-a-d. But not bad to the bone…………
Question:
How come there have been no blog threads about the Haditha incident since July 2006? Now that all but one defendant has had the charges against them dropped is this not news? In the past WE called for a full Senate investigation. Now that the results of an investigation are in there is silence?
F F you’re sure she is a “Lady”?? LOL
Well, isn’t that obvious ProudMan? The Eagle Editors are part of the left-wing press that is more interested in ensuring that the enemy combatants at Gitmo get the proper diet and exercise before being released back to the battlefield to kill our soldiers.
Well, this ought to get the DemLib feathers flying today.
Ha, here we have research confirming EXACTLY what conservatives have known all along, and presented in a concise manner by a respected researcher from Stanford University.
Libs….read it and weep!
Conservative ideals better than liberal?
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/castillo/story/439155.html
“…perhaps conservative ideals are generally better than liberal ones, and those conservative beliefs often lead people to make choices that are more beneficial to our society.
If you don’t believe me, perhaps you’ll believe Peter Schweizer, author of the new book “Makers and Takers” and a research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.
He based his book on academic research, and he said he was careful to avoid information culled from conservative sources.
In contrast to stereotypes of conservatives being greedy, intolerant and selfish, he found that people who identify themselves as liberal were the ones who tended to be more self-serving.
“I think that modern liberalism is so attractive to people because it is an emotionally satisfying belief system that really doesn’t require much from you,” Schweizer said in an interview with the Center for Vision & Values. “Modern liberalism allows you to outsource your responsibilities. The government will take care of the less fortunate. All you need to do is vote for the right candidate and support government programs. Other than that, you are off the hook.”
One of his most surprising discoveries was that liberals value money more than conservatives.
Here are a few more factoids that Schweizer discovered in his research:
• 71 percent of conservatives say a person is obligated to care for a spouse or parent who has been seriously injured, compared with 46 percent of liberals.
• Conservatives have a better work ethic and are much less likely to call in sick than their liberal counterparts.
• Liberals are 2 ½ times more likely to resent the success of others and 50 percent more likely to be jealous of others’ good luck.
Schweizer offers one more critique of liberals: “Claiming sympathy for the poor while actually doing very little for them is a widespread phenomenon on the left. That is because liberals confuse activism with genuine action.”
Well, THANK YOU Peter Schweizer for confirming what conservative have known and seen in liberals all along. And thank you Brent Castillo for bringing it to our attention in the Eagle.
On a lighter note, ProudMan:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=67434
“• 71 percent of conservatives say a person is obligated to care for a spouse or parent who has been seriously injured, compared with 46 percent of liberals.”
Unless it is John McCain or Newt Gingrich and their sick spouses!!
Schweizer — Another CONservative with stretched arms from straining so hard to reach a long ways to pat himself on the back for promoting his own beliefs, through a notoriously Right Wing outfit like the Hoover Institution…
Too funny!!
“Obama to Break Promise, Opt Out of Public Financing for General Election”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/obama-to-break.html
———–
I wonder what McCain is thinking now about McCain-Feingold now? Well, at least he can hit Obama over the head for breaking his promise. If he had enough money to get the message out.
THE BUZZARD:
If you put a buzzard in a pen that is 6 feet by 8 feet and is entirely open at the top, the bird, in spite of its ability to fly, will be an absolute prisoner. The reason is that a buzzard always begins a flight from the ground with a run of 10 to 12 feet. Without space to run, as is its habit, it will not even attempt to fly, but will remain a prisoner for life in a small jail with no top.
THE BAT:
The ordinary bat that flies around at night, a remarkable nimble
Creature in the air, cannot take off from a level place. If it is placed
On the floor or flat ground, all it can do is shuffle about helplessly and,
No doubt, painfully, until it reaches some slight elevation from which it
Can throw itself into the air. Then, at once, it takes off like a flash.
THE BUMBLEBEE:
A bumblebee, if dropped into an open tumbler, will be there
Until it dies, unless it is taken out. It never sees the means of escape
At the top, but persists in trying to find some way out through the sides
Near the bottom. It will seek a way where none exists, until it completely
Destroys itself.
PEOPLE:
In many ways, we are like the buzzard, the bat, and the bumblebee.
We struggle about with all our problems and frustrations, never realizing
That all we have to do is look up!
Sorrow looks back, Worry looks around, But faith looks up!
Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly and trust in our Creator who loves us.
Fleett??? You realize that your link is only to another Blogger… just like any Blogger here??? What is posted there, like posts here, may or may NOT be true!! LOL
The science of fundamentalists. New Orleans was flooded by god because gays were going to have a parade. California legalized gay marriages and the midwest floods. Therefore using fundy science we can suspect a few things: 1) God has bad aim. 2) God hates parades more than he hates gays.
It turns out the North Liberty 2008 Fun Days parade in Johnson County had to be canceled. So that’s proof that god hates parades, not gays. Be sure to cancel any 4th of July parades in Wichita or else we may get flooded.
“Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly and trust in our Creator who loves us.”
Nice thought — Can you DO that, Boxlick…look…lock… I knew I could get it right!!
And more dribble from the fake minister.
Oh well, I guess not!!
“Boxlock” sneers –
“And more dribble from the fake minister.”
Well, the posts here can’t all be literary gems like your cut-and-past parable of the buzzard and the bumble bee.
As John Phillip Sousa said (read your military march music, people!!):
“Boxlock” is as useless as a cello player in a marching band.
Hey Maggotpunk!
Have you heard that the Mississippi River has been flooding and breaking levees in Missouri and Illinois?
No reports of looting. No reports of killing. No reports of people too stupid to evacuate. No reports of people shooting at rescue helicopters.
Know where the Mississippi ends up?
It’s about time for mayor Nagin to go to vegas again!
Monkey,
You should really try learn how to use ‘cut & paste’, it would enormously improve the quality of, and interest in your posts.
But I guess that is simply beyond you.
It’s been a tough month for McCain, first the Supreme Court through out his Torture ‘Em bill, now the GAO has thrown out his Give America Away contract with EADS! If we can’t build our own tanker, we don’t need a military, we can just outsource to Haliburton and Europe.
Obama to break promise by opting out of public funds, McCain to break law by opting out of public funds, what’s your point?
The Chicago Tribune gets one right:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-high-court_16jun16,0,5329454.story
Of course it’s fair that they have guns and you don’t
John Kass
June 19, 2008
That Washington, D.C., gun ban that the Supreme Court should toss out any day now because it is unconstitutional is often compared to the handgun ban in Chicago.
But what’s not often reported by the decidedly pro-gun-control media is that since Chicago’s anti-handgun law went into effect in 1982, only two classes of people have had ready access to firearms:
The criminals. And the politicians.
Cynics who scoff at everything decent suggest these are one and the same, but taxpayers know the difference.
Criminals are often poor people who are led away in chains and go to state prison, for decades or lifetimes, for using guns as weapons against taxpayers. Politicians wear nice suits, drive luxury cars, and when they go to prison—federal prison, and only for a few months—they go away for using government as a weapon against taxpayers.
Criminals get guns the old fashioned way, by stealing them or buying them illegally. Politicians write the anti-gun laws, and wonder of wonders, they often exempt themselves and call themselves peace officers.
In Chicago, our politicians often go around surrounded by armed bodyguards on the city payroll. Or they walk our streets strapped. Or they know a guy who knows a guy in some suburb, and they become deputized peace officers so they can carry.
Politicians are not violent by disposition. They live in some of the safest neighborhoods, with wrought iron fences, automatic garage doors, cameras on light poles and armed police bodyguards.
Meanwhile, the taxpayers, who live without bodyguards, are told that if they want to protect themselves with a handgun just like the politicians, they themselves will be criminalized.
It is all about power in the end.
Oops, here’s the right link:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-19-jun19,0,4716398.column
HLP, when you believe lies you’ll believe anything. Nobody ever shot at any helicopters.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/36327.html
The 36,000 evacuees in Iowa never heard their Mayor talk about repopulating Chocolate cities or Vanilla cities.
I wonder if New Orleans Mayor Nagin has fulfilled his promise to rebuild a Chocolate City?
“Fleett??? You realize that your link is only to another Blogger… just like any Blogger here???”
Pleased to be wondering, chas, what in the world are you talking about?
Say, Mayor Nagin, please bookmark this website:
http://www.intellicast.com/Storm/Hurricane/Track.aspx
Mayor Nagin - It’s NOW Hurricane Season! Get your Plans in place, and then wait for Somebody Else to Execute them. Then you can blame Somebody Else next time YOU FAIL to run your own City!
Hurricane Season
The 2008 Atlantic hurricane season will be an ongoing event in the annual cycle of tropical cyclone formation. The season will officially start on June 1 and will run through November 30. These dates conventionally delimit the period of each year when most tropical cyclones form in the Atlantic basin.
A good Christian father works hard to educate his 13 year old son in the ways of Our Lord Jesus. He sends the boy to Greenville Christian Academy and Trinity Baptist School, and for Summer vacation, he ties him to a tree:
Brice McMillan, 41, told Edgecombe County deputies last week that he tied his son to a tree in the family’s yard at 1110 Felton Farm Road and forced him to sleep outside Tuesday and Wednesday nights because he was misbehaving, the Edgecombe County Sheriff’s Office said.
Stepmother Sandra McMillan, 36, found Tyler unresponsive around 4:30 p.m. Thursday after being tied to the tree since Wednesday night. He was pronounced dead at Heritage Hospital in Tarboro.
Read all about it here:
http://tinyurl.com/5374ur
Fleetwood in the short time I have been posting here I have found this blogger Chas to be clueless about most all subjects as he has shown today.
He throws dirt at others and then acts surprised when he is covered in it. Go figure.
“Speaker Nancy Pelosi removed a section from a bill passed by Congress which would have barred the U.S. from going to war with Iran without a congressional vote, claiming she did so at the behest of the leadership of Israel and AIPAC. ”
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/paul_pelosi_AIPAC/2008/06/18/105652.html
Monkey doesn’t this just show you there are nut cases in every segment of our society. They should be tied to trees and left alone for the same period of time and if still living put in prison for the rest of their worthless lifes. For heavens sake don’t send them to GITMO. That would be to good for them.
But Monkeyhawk, he was raising him with those good Christian values. Greenville Christian Academy focuses on spiritual growth and character building, Trinity Christian School promotes Christian values. It just so happens these Christian values means beating children and tying them to trees until they die.
I’m a godless Atheist and I don’t have good Christian values so I’m going to hell because I don’t value killing children by tying them to trees.
Sorry Fleett — That should have been aimed at Outlander
Someone find a place with a free room and I’ll host the meetup.
“okobserver” asks –
“Monkey doesn’t this just show you there are nut cases in every segment of our society?”
No.
For example, if this particular horrific crime had been committed by say, a gay couple, don’t you think the wing-nuts would be all over it like stink on shit?
If the McMillans had been named say, “Ortiz,” think the racist xenophobes wouldn’t have railed about it?
No. Turns out this particular crime was committed by good “Christian” people
Then there is Maggotpunk and Monkeyhawk.
Guys. Let me ask you this. Were the teachings of Christ being followed in your described incident by the moron alleged to have done the damage?
Well, then why would you impugn all Christians when you have folks who might profess Christ (you don’t know do you)crossing over and doing acts that the Godless might do, in direct disobedience to their Master? Hate?
Hate can make blind men of us all.
“Guys. Let me ask you this. Were the teachings of Christ being followed in your described incident by the moron alleged to have done the damage?”
Yup. Spare the rod, spoil the child, honor thy mother and father, Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock, etc.
Did you read the link Chas? No?
Well, if you had, you would have discovered that, contary to your assertion, the linked blog is nothing like this one. It is is an ABC political writer. Read the link. And like you would tell a child, please don’t bother me again until you have tried to figure it out for yourself.
Boy’s Death Spotlights
Bias in Coverage of Gays
By Robert Stacy McCain
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
April 2, 2001
There were no nationally televised candlelight vigils for Jesse Dirkhising. No Hollywood celebrities mourned the passing of the 13-year-old Arkansas boy.
The New York Times hasn’t reported how Jesse died of asphyxiation in 1999 after prosecutors say he was bound, gagged and sodomized by a homosexual couple. And the seventh-grader’s death has not caused powerful Washington activists to lobby for new federal laws to punish such crimes.
While the 1998 death of Matthew Shepard in Wyoming provoked a blizzard of media coverage about the death of the homosexual college student, the Dirkhising case is just “a local crime story,” one TV network spokesman explains.
Joshua Macabe Brown, one of two men accused of killing Jesse, was convicted yesterday of rape and first-degree murder in a trial that began March 13.
————————-
Maggot and Monkey do you remember when this happened. Was there a national outcry. Were all gay men drawn and quartered. Of course not because this wasn’t the normal behavior for gay men.
At least be honest in your postings.
Is it OK for you to lie Maggie? I mean, since you believe that you have no one and nothing to answer to, nothing to represent to the rest of the world?
Do an atheist feel bad when he lies? If so, why?
Just wondering how an atheist thinks.
What am I lying about? It’s not my fault that you aren’t familiar with the moral teachings in the bible. God punishes a bunch of children for mocking a man’s baldness by having them torn apart by bears. Perhaps if you knew about your own religion you’d realize Christianity isn’t child friendly and the parents who murdered their child were just practicing their religion.
Nice dodge there maggot. How about that news story I printed. Isn’t this normal behavior for all gay men? After all these two seemed to think it was.
Ah, yes, “okobserver” –
The
MoonieWashington Times. From nine years ago.That’s the best you’ve got?
And, no, I don’t particularly think it’s fair to tar all “Christians” with the McMillans’ crime.
Just like it’s absurd every time a wing-nut cuts-and-pastes a crime story involving a Hispanic name and froth about brown people “invading” America.
And just as fair.
I may have you confused with another participant in this forum, but I seem to remember you’ve defended Charles Manson a few times.
Pretty skewed priorities on your side of the political spectrum, “okobserver.”
So Maggie. Does an atheist feel bad when he lies? If so, why?
I see, Christians practice their religion and murder their son so you need to change the subject. I’m not aware of any homosexual manifesto on how to raise children, but the Christian religion has one. Apples and oranges. You are just upset because the truth of the moral depravity of your religion has been brought to light.
I think values boy needs to climb down off his cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and then get TF over his persecution complex.
Advise some of the rest of you could take as well.
poor, POOR persecuted christian conservatives….
“HLP, when you believe lies you’ll believe anything. Nobody ever shot at any helicopters.”
What? Now I can’t believe that bastion of unbiased and fair reporting, the AP?
I guess all we’re left with is the gang rapes, shooting at police, people too stupid to evacuate and democrat liberal officials pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.
Heres another source for you.
http://katrinacoverage.com/2005/10/04/what-happened-to-the-helicopter-shooting-arrest.html
Which brings us back to the original point, Do you think Nagin has made reservations in Vegas before the flood waters get there?
Monkey you sure do have me confused with someone. I have never defended Charles Manson or anyother nut case murderer. Just don’t think it is fair if two nuts who claim to be Christian kill their kids that all Christians are quilty as charged. This is a familiar tactic of the left.
By the way do you discount the story or only the source and if it is the source what does it matter if the story is true and this one is? Another left dodge tactic.
Look-out East St. Louis!
GW is flying over the Midwest today. I bet Bush bombs those levies across from the Gateway Arch and floods East St. Louis!
Run for the hills!
Hank,
Don’t forget about the police themselves, who participated in the looting in New Orleans.
Did they ever find all those cops who were AWOL? Or were the payroll records wrong in showing checks going to non-existent cops?
Here’s an altruistic message to all born-agains on this Blog:
Don’t attempt a biblical debate with “Maggotpunk.” He knows more about the bible than I do; he can quote more verses than I ever could. He’s a lifelong atheist; Big Bertha was born and raised Methodist and converted to Catholicism at age 18 (left at 31).
Now, how do you figure this s–t?
Whew - I didn’t know about the part where “God” orders recalcitrant children to be eaten by bears. That’s kinda breathtaking. And just for making fun of some old fool’s baldness?
If “God” will enact that s–t for this sort of benign transgression, just imagine where the FilmFemme’s gonna descend when she kicks the bucket. I guess I should be a-tremblin’ in my pa-tootie right about now.
“Isn’t this normal behavior for all gay men? After all these two seemed to think it was.”
No, OKOB, it is not. Just like not all Christian mothers chop their infants’ arms off.
Outlander: An atheist is an atheist because he can’t lie to himself anymore. Once again your premise is wrong. I don’t need some big daddy in the sky to scare me into doing the right thing.
I don’t lie because lying takes my credibility away from others and I prefer having credibility.
But in answer to your stupid question: I wouldn’t feel bad if I lied. I would feel stupid. Because lying is stupid
Another thought………
How come the Maggot Monk knows more about the Bible than my own priest? My own priest never alluded to those horrible passages.
Has this well-read young man taken a vow of obedience, poverty and chastity, too? Now, I’m trying to get a mental picture of this………..
I’m tryin’ to picture M.P. hearin’ confessions. And I’m getting a fiendish delight from doing so. M.P. was not quite 15 years of age during the spring of my roiling discontent (1989), so I don’t think he could have dealt with this former papist.
My goodness. Someone should have shipped me off to finishing school long ago…….
Sorry, “okobserver” –
Somebody of your political stripe shows up in this forum defending Manson because “he never killed anybody.”
Crazies are so hard to keep track of, sometimes.
“Just don’t think it is fair if two nuts who claim to be Christian kill their kids that all Christians are quilty as charged. This is a familiar tactic of the left.”
Of the “left?!”
I note that you have not addressed my citing those who cut-and-paste horrific crime stories involving Hispanic (emphasis on “panic”) names and rail against their perception of “the invasion of the brown people!”
Then you ask –
“…do you discount the story or only the source”
Mostly the source, given its obvious agenda. But mostly in the way this “news” item was presented. The facts of the 1999 Arkansas crime were all there, but the
MoonieWashington Times chose to “report” it by drawing in an obvious non sequitur, the Matthew Shepherd murder.A “left dodge tactic?”
Yeah, right.
You noble CONs would never stoop so low, now would you?
“Somebody of your political stripe shows up in this forum defending Manson because “he never killed anybody.””
It’s not a defense, it’s a fact.
Good ol’ cuzzin Maggot Punk,
Pretending to be the oracle of atheism, the tin-foil hat wizard of agnosticism and the corny kernel of secular truth.
Next he’ll claim superior knowledge of the gnostic rules in Rome and take over the Vatican.
bth
Posted June 19, 2008 at 11:55 am | Permalink
“Isn’t this normal behavior for all gay men? After all these two seemed to think it was.”
No, OKOB, it is not. Just like not all Christian mothers chop their infants’ arms off.
————-
You of course missed the appropriate response.
“No more than it is normal for all Christian parents to tie their sons to trees for misbehaving.”
Where did you come up with the cutting off of arms? Pull that one out of your hat?
WEll monkey now that you mention it, how did the Matthew Shepherd story rates national coverage and encourage new legislation. Did he die in a more heinous way than that young man in Ark when the gays killed him?
Draw you own conclusions? Just don’t try to change the facts. All groups, ethnic, religious, cultural, social, etc… have extremists in them. Our goal as a nation should be to get rid of the extremists not use these nut cases as a wedge between groups.
Careful Okie, if you start talking maturely to the Libs, they’ll go all retro on you, put on a head band and chant “down with the man.”
Well Regular in Oklahoma we were raised to use common sense and that sometimes seems in short supply on this blog.
Nope - no headbands for this chick. No chantin’, neither. (I might have chanted during an opiate-induced reverie back in 2002, but I forget….)
But I am wearing two colorful flowers in me hair today. As I do most days in the spring and summer. I’m sporting one light green, and one light blue blossom in my crowning glory.
In fact, I’m known for it.
And it ain’t got eff-all to do with “liberal” or “conservative” or anything inbetween. It’s called “fighting the hands of time.” I’m striving to look as youthful as I can before time, encroaching hermaphrodism and/or death wreak their pitiless vengeance upon my aging physique.
So THERE!!!!!
I began reading WEBlog at the recommendation of a friend. I assumed it would be an intelligent discussion of current events, not a forum for moronic name-calling and pseudo-intellectuals. My bad.
NATO Launches Large-Scale Anti-Taliban Offensive
In Afghanistan, NATO forces are leading a large-scale offensive against the Taliban outside of Kandahar. At least twenty Taliban fighters were killed earlier today. Earlier in the week, the Taliban seized seven towns near Kandahar, Afghanistan’s second largest city.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/19/headlines
GAO: US Has No Plan to Build Afghanistan’s Army
Meanwhile, a new report from the Government Accountability Office has concluded the US has no comprehensive plan to build Afghanistan’s army and police, which remain poorly equipped and significantly unprepared to operate without help. The GAO said only two of 105 Afghan army units are considered fully capable.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/19/headlines
Blackwater Asks Federal Court to Decide Case with Sharia Law
A sister company of the private military contractor Blackwater has asked a federal court to decide a case against the company using the Islamic law of Sharia. Blackwater’s request was made in a lawsuit brought by the widows of three American soldiers who died on one of its planes in Afghanistan. The News and Observer reports that if the judge agrees with Blackwater, it would essentially end the lawsuit, because Sharia law does not hold a company responsible for the actions of employees performed within the course of their work.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/19/headlines
Hanging them out to dry…
What does the good Christian book of values, the Bible, say to do with disobedient children. Let’s take a look at Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
The parents were unbiblical in the sense they didn’t have the townsfolk stone the unruly child to death. Nah, that’s illegal in this secular government. So sure, the family’s behavior is unusual among Christians only in the fact that Christians tend not to follow their moral guidebook. These Christians were following their biblical mandate on child rearing which calls for the execution of disobedient children.
Can the homophobes point to some homosexual scripture to make an accurate comparison? No, of course not because none exists but since when were bible thumpers able to make a logical argument?
Sure you fundies are upset with me because I know your religion better than you. That’s you own fault though, perhaps if you weren’t so ignorant then you wouldn’t be so religious.
Sol,
I’m glad you bring up the forgotten war in Forgottenstan, er Afghanistan. Apparently Afghanistan is threatening war with Pakistan since Pakistan is supporting the Taliban. Pakistan our ally? Yup, we give billions of taxpayer dollars to Pakistan so they can aid the Taliban to kill Americans.
Another example of Bush’s failed leadership.
grmagg
Posted June 19, 2008 at 1:32 pm | Permalink
I began reading WEBlog at the recommendation of a friend. I assumed it would be an intelligent discussion of current events, not a forum for moronic name-calling and pseudo-intellectuals. My bad.
————————-
Sorry we haven’t measured up to your standards.
Let’s talk about the numinous concept of non-belief.
“I see, Christians practice their religion and murder their son so you need to change the subject.”
————-
No Maggie, when I’m talking about atheists who lie, I was talking about you. As I mentioned before, when the father of that boy punished him in the brutal way, resulting in his death, it had nothing to do with Christianity. Yet you clumsily try to tar Christians with it. You have no idea if this guy was the Christian he professed to be, do you? If he was, then Satan clearly had won him over.
Since you won’t answer the question about atheist lying, how about this one. Since you don’t believe that people have an immortal soul how is killing a person different than killing a cow? Except that it’s against the law I mean. Just a smarter animal, right?
Using a typical CON diversion technique, “okobserver” comes up with –
“WEll monkey now that you mention it, how did the Matthew Shepherd story…”
Sorry, “okobserver.”
I didn’t mention the Shepherd story, the so-called “news” item from the
MoonieWashington Times threw it in; a totally unrelated case.Outlander — What is the FIRST WORD in your link, AFTER http:// ???
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/obama-to-break.html
That’s right — It’s BLOGS!!
Oh yea, I DID read it… sort of all over the place…. I personally would need more information to offer any sort of comment on it… ok??
And, no, I am not looking for an argument… Just wanted to post that I CAN read the word BLOGS… LOL
Hank Price posted,
“It is a FACT that global temperature has varied throughout history and scientists explain this by changes in solar activity.”
—————
And that PAST correlation shows that solar activity is NOT responsible for the recent warming.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
What the science says…
The correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70’s when the modern global warming trend began.
The correlation between solar activity and temperature
The most commonly cited study by skeptics is a study by scientists from Finland and Germany that finds the sun has been more active in the last 60 years than anytime in the past 1150 years (Usoskin 2005). They also found temperatures closely correlate to solar activity.
However, a crucial finding of the study was the correlation between solar activity and temperature ended around 1975. At that point, temperatures rose while solar activity stayed level. This led them to conclude “during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source.”
You read that right. The study most quoted by skeptics actually concluded the sun can’t be causing global warming.
Ironically, the evidence that establishes the sun’s close correlation with the Earth’s temperature in the past also establishes it’s blamelessness for global warming today.”
————
Graphs and links to papers at link.
Hank,
Please line-up and go thru the Brain Wash. Get a special rainy-day sale today for just $7.50, you can get a Double Wash and Double Wax to ensure the maximum amount of Global Warming Paranoia is soaked into your brain.
SAVE THE PLANET!
As I mentioned before, when the father of that boy punished him in the brutal way, resulting in his death, it had nothing to do with Christianity.
You know, you’re right. It probably didn’t. Nor did it have anything to so with homosexuality. But that’s what you made it into. I guess there is NO abuse of children in the straight world.
Easter Bunny; Now, I never once mentioned homosexuality.
But I still believe in you.
Film Fan,
I think you’ll find that most atheists know more about the Bible and Christian history than Christians do.
Max,
I think Hank has already had his brain washed away.
Hank seems to believe that a politician who read a book written by another politician is a credible source re climate science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Lawson
As pointed out if they truly knew they might have questions. Better to not know?
Anyone else notice the similarities in okobserver and ksgrm? Those two would enjoy conversing and I bet they would agree often. It’s uncanny how the opinions and the way they’re presented are so alike.
Didn’t ksgrm seem to stop posting around the same time okobserver started? Too bad they weren’t here together to meet and greet.
Sorry, outie. “YOU” was a relevant term, not a pointing-finger-at-outlander one.
Only if the shoe fits can you wear it without getting blisters and your toes pinched.
Linda,
And hasn’t ksgrm told us many times that she lived in that state just south of us?
Not saying I think she is okobserver. Just adding another interesting ksobservation.
“cosmos_originally” observes –
“I think Hank has already had his brain washed away.”
And when you think about it, it’s kind of amazing they could work up a lather.
I hope ksgrm did come back, even if under another name.
Welcome back ksgrm! (If it be you!)
I can’t speak for other atheists Predestined. But I became a non-believer because of how much I studied the Bible at a Christian College.
Cosmos: If I were to say it looks like that after a short period of diversion, we are reestablishing the correlation between solar activity and temperature, how would you disprove it?
We now have stabilizing temperatures coinciding with the continued solar minimum.
It’s a bad day to be a Lib:
“Weapons caches are turning up with increasing frequency in public places in Iraq — from a bakery to a fish farm — as recent security gains embolden more civilians to come forward with tips, U.S. and Iraqi military officials say.”
It’s not getting any better for the Libs:
“Afghan and NATO troops backed by warplanes drove Taliban militants from villages within striking distance of southern Afghanistan’s main city on Thursday, killing 56 of them, Afghan officials said.”
Seems like I might have missed knowing one of the better bloggers. If she was from Ok I know I did. Common sense is taught down here before you go to school.
Fleetwood, if both of those posts are true, it is wonderful news and it’s a beautiful day to be a moderate libertarian. That’s so nice of you to show concern for those “libs”
Predestined
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink
Linda,
And hasn’t ksgrm told us many times that she lived in that state just south of us?
Not saying I think she is okobserver. Just adding another interesting ksobservation.
—————–
No, I think ksgrm lives in Wichita, but she has lived in Oklahoma.
I lived in Oklahoma for awhile too, but doesn’t mean I’m ksgrm or okobserver. They actually have people down there that blog independently of the WE blog, regardless of what paranoid Libs think.
I grew up in Bartlesville Oklahoma.
I wasn’t allowed to use common sense there. At least not out loud.
That’s too much thinking and asking too many “LIBERAL” questions. Even less was I taught it (before, during or after school)
I didn’t start seeing common sense until I moved back to Kansas where I was born.
#
Predestined
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:20 pm | Permalink
Film Fan,
I think you’ll find that most atheists know more about the Bible and Christian history than Christians do.
—————————
Oh, I wouldn’t bet on that.
Have any atheist you wish come to my Church and speak to the retired Deacons, Ministers and long time church goers, that have sat through Sunday School, Training unions, Mission studies, sermons and studied the Bible for the past 50-75 years.
You might be amazed at the depth of knowledge these people have.
“I didn’t start seeing common sense until I moved back to Kansas where I was born.”
I had to read that one a few times.
lmao fleettwood.
Vet that would explain those every now and then returns to normal thinking you show. My best friend is a retired geologist from Phillips in Bartlesville. He’s the one who told me these gas prices are a bunch of crap. We have all of the oil we need for hundreds of years. The enviros just won’t let us drill. I am seeing a change in public opinion finally. Sixty seven percent of the general public are now saying drill here, drill now and pay less.
Good luck with that, Mr. Hopebama
“Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says if Osama bin Laden is captured alive, the United States should bring him to justice but in a way that avoids turning the al Qaeda leader into a martyr.”
Abortionist quack Hamid Hussain Sheikh pleaded not guilty in November to charges that he wrongly billed the state for abortions at his business, fraudulently presenting the killings as ultrasounds. Kentucky state officials have now temporarily suspended the quack’s medical license, and he faces 20 years in prison if convicted on all 4 indictments. Several of Sheikh’s victims reported unsanitary conditions, violations of medical regulations, improper handling of medications and bio-hazardous waste, gross negligence, and abusive treatment.
- - -
The Colorado GOP, or at least the pro-abortion leadership, at the direction of state Republican Party chairman Dick Wadhams, appears to have cut its own throat, by shutting Colorado Right to Life out of having a table at the recent state convention, while allowing the baby-hating Republican Majority for Choice to distribute literature opposing the personhood amendment that will appear on the November ballot.
Delegates, however, overwhelmingly passed pro-life resolutions including a vote of 78% affirming that “life begins at conception.”
Big Tent means a party that stands for nothing.
Never, never, never trust a RINO.
- - -
Diedre Harman, 18, of McPherson, KS, whose 6-week-old daughter was found alive in a garbage bin, will be tried on a child abandonment and endangerment charge. Harman had initially claimed that her baby had been abducted.
- - -
A newborn girl was found by a pastor and his wife Tuesday night in a plastic tub outside the door of their First Baptist Church Bellville, OH. The baby was transported to MedCentral/ Mansfield Hospital and was listed in good condition late Tuesday night.
- - -
Morgan Hite, 22, was extradited from Alaska on charges of first-degree murder in connection with the death of her newborn son in February, and jailed in Grand Junction, CO Friday. Hite’s parents had eventually discovered the tiny body stuffed into a closet.
- - -
A teenage mother’s younger sister found her premature baby alive Saturday, stuffed between a mattress and door, several days after the mother gave birth in Breckenridge, TX, hid the infant there and went on a trip. Lauren Renee McDonald, 19, of Breckenridge was charged with child abandonment and endangerment after she returned from her trip Sunday. She has since been released from jail on a mere $10,000 bail, while the baby remains hospitalized. The attempted murderess faces a mere 2 years in jail.
Regular.
Tell me where, when and with whom. I will meet your experts and discuss the Bible anytime. Then I can report back here as to the depth of their knowledge.
Until then, here are a few items to bring up, so they can prepare:
Is the septuigent greek translation of the old testament a valid translation?
Why does Matthew’s Geneolongy not match with I Chronicles Chapter 3. (It’s pretty close, but 3 people are left out so that Matthew’s glorious number 14 is preserved)
How do they show Matthew 2:15 to be a fulfillment of Hosea 11?
Where is the prophecy about Jesus being a Nazarene?
How is it that Matthew 13:35 and Psalms 78:2 are talking about the same thing?
We can start there. Tell me when they want to meet with me. ANYTIME, ANYWHERE.
Interesting OKOB. I grew up playing soccer with a young man whose dad (Owen Thomas) was head of the Geology department until 1979 when he retired and moved to Utah. Mr Thomas had a different view on the subject.
Vet sorry you missed out on that before you can go to school lesson. Thats usually taught on your parents knee. Thats where I learned mine.
Yes Fleetwood hard to SEE common sense among many people in Bartlesville Oklahoma.
outlander posted June 19, 2008 at 3:10 pm
“We now have stabilizing temperatures coinciding with the continued solar minimum.”
———-
FALSE.
We have rising long-term temperatures cause by AGW, mixed with noise from ENSO, Mt. Pinatubo, and other natural forcings.
‘Uncertainty, noise and the art of model-data comparison’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/01/uncertainty-noise-and-the-art-of-model-data-comparison
fleettwood - I’ll second VET and agree that is indeed good news - if true. I would like nothing better than to wake up tomorrow morning and find that Iraq and Afghanistan are suddenly peaceful Jeffersonian democracies.
That is really interesting since the man I knew at Phillips last name was also Thomas. But not the one you knew. Must be a popular name in Bartlesville.
I’m sure they can answer your questions LLVET as there are two that have PhD’s in theology and life long ordained Ministers. There’s even some who have taught at Seminary and Universities. I believe one of the PhD’s has authored several books and the other was a College professor.
Contrary to your belief that Christians might be nothing more than knuckle dragging barbarians, we have all levels of educated people from cooks to Physicians, from janitors to lawyers and from people with low income to multi-millionaires.
OKOB. I don’t care that much about the environmentalists. I also remember my dad losing his job (with Phillips) in the 80s and congress doing nothing about it. Don’t lump me in with the environmentalists. I am just glad I am away from the Buckle of the Bible Belt, Oklahoma.
Regular, want to take the challenge?
Great Regular. I look forward to a date, time and place.
I see resumes Regular, but no meet up time/place. Not even an offer to investigate one.
Methinks me smells BS.
OKOB - I got a degree in Geology from WSU and found that the people there also had a different view than your friend about how much oil is out there.
OKOB.
I doubt it would be his son (James) they live in Utah and he studied English in college. But why don’t you ask your friend Mr. Thomas who Owen Thomas was. I can’t speculate when he started work at Phillips. I only know that he retired in 1979.
While you are at it. You can ask about Clayton (Or Craig) Reeser. He was VP of Marketing a fews years back. I will assume he still is. Way back when 1980, he was one of our soccer coaches.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane OKOB.
OK cosmos. So you don’t agree that moderating temperatures are moderating temperatures. Instead they are just “noise” temporarily masking the continued climbing temperatures.
Well, you can only hope I guess.
“Methinks me smells BS.”
That is normally what you smell around McCluer - BS and BO.
Diversity makes the world go around. Ain’t it great. I have been hearing a lot of scientist that agree with his opinion lately. I just saw him last weekend and he does contract work for Conoco Phillips now and hasn’t changed his mind about the reserves available to us.
okobserver posted June 19, 2008 at 3:47 pm
“My best friend is a retired geologist from Phillips in Bartlesville.”
———
ksgrm posted March 4, 2008 at 5:50 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/open-thread-34/#comment-306960
“My husband best friend through high school was the top geologist for Phillips Oil out of Oklahoma before T Boone bought it up.”
———
ksgrm posted December 13, 2007 at 9:32 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/12/climate-change/#comment-143541
“Being from NE Ok we were close to Phillips Oil in Bartlesville and had lots of friends that worked there. Their top geologist lived next door to my husband growing up.”
———
The oil-friendly U.S. EIA says OPEC would still be in control of world oil prices, even if drilling was allowed in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
outlander,
What do you see when you look at these graphs?
http://www.realclimate.org/images/giss-7yr.jpg
http://www.realclimate.org/images/giss-15yr.jpg
Cosmos it would appear that me, ksgrm and LLvet have a lot in common right down to knowing geologists at Phillips. Coming from Ne ok that isn’t rare. My sister retired from there and my nephew still works there and your point is what.
OKOB
I suppose we can just write this off to two (or possibly more) experts who all “agree to disagree”
on the issue.
But I suppose I should qualify my post on common sense. I didn’t see MUCH common sense with regard to social matters until I left Oklahoma. Buckle of the Bible belt and all. The science was good. But intellectual exigence was not even tolerated, much less accomadated. That’s why conservatives are seen as so narrow minded.
I think you’ll find that most atheists know more about the Bible and Christian history than Christians do.
—————————
Oh, I wouldn’t bet on that.
Don’t get out much, do ya?
Would you like to join in with me Predestined? I’m sure Regular’s friends wouldn’t mind. Would that be allright Regular?
Well Vet maybe the difference is that I don’t much get into other peoples private lives. Live and let live. That would go a long way on this blog.
Don’t get to post much during the day and at night it ain’t worth the trouble. Seems to be lots of narrow minds on both sides.
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LLTVET
Posted June 19, 2008 at 4:02 pm | Permalink
Great Regular. I look forward to a date, time and place.
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Heck, I can answer some of those right now.
Not going into great detail myself though, there is plenty of online information available to provide answers for your questions.
Here’s a very good secular explanation of the differences.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/409755/Genealogy-of-Jesus?query2=Matthew-genealogies
It’s mostly about how different tribes had different traditions in relaying stories. Matthew was a Levite I think, can’t remember, so he would tell his version differently.
Also, the in the New Testament, one was a genealogy from Joseph and another was a genealogy from Mary. There is no Hebrew word for father-in-law, so it was often translated as ‘father.’
Is the septuigent greek translation of the old testament a valid translation?
Valid or correct? I don’t know that either term is appropriate as most know there are some Hebrew words that don’t translate well into Greek. Interpretation is argued about even among educated theists. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
How do they show Matthew 2:15 to be a fulfillment of Hosea 11?
Exegesis interpretation of a specific quote or text passage is what you are doing LLVET. That is one approach, but has its faults.
Biblical hermeneutic studies require a lifetime of comparison, language study and theological education. Contemporary explanations of past events or even written text often confound the most educated anthropologists because they do not have the proper context of the time in which it occurred. It’s even stickier when one delves into whether or not a Biblical passage is used for reference or if it is use as a prophetic source to predict events. In the latter case of prediction, one has to have the knowledge and experience to translate original text and be highly educated in the customs and traditions along with histories of the passages involved.
I’ll close this for now before it gets too long.
If you wish more clarity, you can contact Dr. Woods, his address and phone number at the following Web page. He’s retired now and does Christian Estate planning, but I’m sure he would be happy to respond to your questions.
Dr. Charles L. Wood, Th.D
http://www.kncsb.org/ministry/article/christian_estate_planning_seminars/
A bunch of us go to Osage Hills State Park every year. It’s close to Pawhuska and Bartlesville.
Bee-you-ti-full country!!
Beautiful country. They just don’t do lakes and parks in Kansas like they do in Oklahoma.
Ya, Oklahoma has some spiffy parks. Even back in the day, they had nice parks. We used to go down to Platt National Park in Sulphur Springs on our way to Lake Texhoma to cool off in the cool waters of the mineral springs.
Roman Nose is also a nice park and the lakes with their surrounding areas are just beautiful in southeastern and eastern Oklahoma.
Regular. I will have to talk to your friend. Like Normal. Christians always think that I refer to Luke vs Matthew and bring up their tired old idea about Mary vs Joseph.
This is a different issue. I am talking about First Chronicles (maybe I need to spell it out) chapter 3. It matches very closely, except that there are 3 kings left out so that Matthew’s number 14 is preserved.
This was the issue. Not Mary lineage vs Joseph lineage.
Dr. Woods is a nice fellow. He knows my father and mother well, as they are close to the same age. His home address, email and phone number are on that Web page I gave.
I would reference you to my Uncle, who was a seminary trained ordained, Southern Baptist Minister, but he passed away last year. He would have answered your questions as well.
I come from a long genealogical line of Baptist ministers - all the way from Wales in the late 1600s to the Pennypack Church in Pennsylvania and on to North Carolina, Ohio, Illinois, Kansas.
LLTVET,
While I’d love to join you all and I’m sure it would be an interesting time, I’m not an atheist. That, of course doesn’t mean I have a problem with those who are. To each his own, I always say.
From Regular…
Contrary to your belief that Christians might be nothing more than knuckle dragging barbarians, we have all levels of educated people from cooks to Physicians, from janitors to lawyers and from people with low income to multi-millionaires.
That description could include just about anyone, so it has nothing to do with the conversation. Religion or lack of has no boundaries. I would expect someone with a doctorate in religion to be more informed than most, but I’m talking about the average man on the street. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
I’m sure that many atheists do know a lot about the Bible. In fact some of the very best Christian apologist writers are former atheists. They wrestled mightily with God and scripture before giving in. C. S. Lewis, and in recent times Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel for example.
Atheists may know about the contents of the Bible. But they have not experienced God.
Ok now Regular. I don’t want to go to this gentleman’s email and say. “Regular sent me” I have heard you referred to as McClure and James. So can I refer to you as James McClure, or is that not correct?
I believe it was C.S. Lewis who said that “..if a doctrine of Biblical infallibility is in any way contrary to the doctrine of the goodness of God, that doctrine of Biblical infallibility is wrong.”
Do I misquote the late C.S Lewis?
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LLTVET
Posted June 19, 2008 at 4:59 pm | Permalink
Ok now Regular. I don’t want to go to this gentleman’s email and say. “Regular sent me” I have heard you referred to as McClure and James. So can I refer to you as James McClure, or is that not correct?
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Sure, that’s fine. Just mention I’m Paul and Bonnie’s son, then he’ll understand the relationship. Don’t think he knows me well.
BTW, it’s McCluer, not McClure - slightly different spelling.
Even the great Billy Graham had his crisis of faith in regard to the Bible, as he relates below.
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“But the Bible is important for a much greater reason: The Bible is the Word of God. Yes, various human authors wrote it—but behind them was another Author: the Spirit of God. Even when they weren’t fully aware of it, God was guiding them so that what they wrote wasn’t just their own words, but God’s Word. The apostle Peter wrote, “No prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:20-21). God wanted to speak to us in words we could understand—and the Bible contains those words.
The Bible isn’t just a collection of men’s ideas about God, nor is it a guidebook for living that people developed over the centuries. It is the Word of God—and that makes all the difference. This means the Bible is our authority in everything it touches. This means the Bible is our guide to show us how to live. Most of all, this means the Bible is our instructor, teaching us about God and His plan of salvation in Christ. The Old Testament points toward Christ’s coming; the New Testament tells of His arrival. From Genesis to Revelation we see God’s great plan unfold—His plan to win a lost humanity back to Himself. The central theme of the Bible is salvation, and the central personality of the Bible is Christ.
The Bible is God’s gift to us. It came from God, and it points us to God. The Bible says of itself, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV).
Can We Trust It?
Since the Bible is God’s Word, we shouldn’t be surprised if Satan tries to convince us otherwise. The very first question in the Bible came from Satan’s lips, casting doubt on what God had told Adam and Eve: “Did God really say …? (Genesis 3:1). Then he became bolder, flatly denying what God had said: “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). Ever since that dark day in the Garden of Eden, one of Satan’s most persistent strategies has been to make us doubt the truthfulness and authority of God’s Word.
In the summer of 1949, my team and I were preparing for the most intensive evangelistic mission we had ever attempted, a citywide outreach in Los Angeles, California. Although the press had ignored it, several hundred churches had come together to prepare and pray for the planned three-week-long event. We believed God had led us there, and many were praying He would use the meetings to bring many to Christ.
Just weeks before the mission was to start, however, I experienced a major crisis of faith—the most intense of my life. Some months before, a fellow evangelist whom I respected greatly had begun to express doubts about the Bible, urging me to “face facts” and change my belief that the Bible was the inspired Word of God. “Billy,” he said, “you’re fifty years out-of-date. People no longer accept the Bible as being inspired the way you do. Your faith is too simple.” I knew from my own reading that some modern theologians shared his views.
For months doubts about the Bible swirled through my mind, finally coming to a boil during a conference at which I was speaking in the mountains east of Los Angeles. One night, alone in my cabin at the conference, I studied carefully what the Bible said about its divine origin. I recalled that the prophets clearly believed they were speaking God’s Word; they used the phrase “Thus says the Lord” (or similar words) hundreds of times. I also knew that archaeological discoveries had repeatedly confirmed the Bible’s historical accuracy.
Especially significant to me, however, was Jesus’ own view of Scripture. He not only quoted it frequently, but also accepted it as the Word of God. While praying for His disciples, He said, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth” (John 17:17). He also told them, “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law” (Matthew 5:18). Shouldn’t I have the same view of Scripture as my Lord?
Finally I went for a walk in the moonlit forest. I knelt down with my Bible on a tree stump in front of me and began praying. I don’t recall my exact words, but my prayer went something like this: “O Lord, there are many things in this book I don’t understand. There are many problems in it for which I have no solution. … But, Father, by faith I am going to accept this as Thy Word. From this moment on I am going to trust the Bible as the Word of God.”
When I got up from my knees, I sensed God’s presence in a way that I hadn’t felt for months. Not all my questions were answered, but I knew a major spiritual battle had been fought—and won. I never doubted the Bible’s divine inspiration again, and immediately my preaching took on a new confidence. This was, I believe, one reason why our Los Angeles meetings had to be extended from three weeks to eight.
Don’t let anyone shake your confidence in the Bible as God’s Word. If you have questions about it, don’t use them as an excuse to turn your back on God. Instead, face your doubts and seek answers; you aren’t the first person to ask them. (Your local Christian bookstore can help you.) In addition, read the Bible for yourself with an open heart and mind. Ask God to show you if it truly is His Word—and He will.
Your life will never be the same once you trust the Bible as God’s Word. God will begin to use it to change your life.”
I apologize for misspelling your name. No offense intended. So are you coming along Mr. McCluer? Can I tell him that you will be joining our discussion?
I will check your answer tomorrow. Quitting time and time to see my Granddaughter’s basketball game.
Enjoy folks.
Sure LLVET, if there is an invitation to do so. I’m know what Dr. Woods is quite busy even though he is retired.
Perhaps you can arrange some questions and answers by email?
I don’t purport to be a Biblical scholar, so not sure what I could do at the meet up other than nod my head in the affirmative or negative.
Fellowship is