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309 Comments
Regular
Posted June 13, 2008 at 1:52 am | Permalink
“cosmos love of the Sierra Club means that he wants the United States to fail economically, even if it means putting tens of thousands of people of work.
cosmos is not a scientist. cosmos is a political hack of the first order of the socialistic green movement with the identical agenda of anti-technology that the Una-bomber wrote about in his manifesto.
cosmos and the una-bomber are kindred spirits seeking to destroy mankind and the economy of the United States.”
Reguliar says he goes tp Church on Sundays but during the week he spews hatred and venom.
This is why Christians have such a bad reputation these days.
Bad Science. A grand tradition
By Roy Spencer
With the failure of the Lieberman-Warner global-warming bill in the Senate last Friday, I am reminded of the long and grand tradition the scientific community has had in promoting “bad science.” (It is mere coincidence that the acronym for this term is “BS.”). While the failure of the carbon cap-and-trade legislation was largely a result of economic concerns over what it would cost the country, its proponents will no doubt return next year with claims that no price is too great to save us from planetary destruction.
But I believe that the huge cost of “doing something” substantial about global warming will inevitably cause us to reexamine the science. Just how certain are we that recent warming really has been caused by SUVs spewing carbon dioxide and cows belching methane? After all, the greater the cost of the advertised fixes, the more certain we must be that the scientific consensus really is more than just a political statement.
And why should the science of global warming be so uncertain? Mostly because it is a whole lot easier to make scientific measurements than it is to figure out what those measurements are telling us about how the natural world works. The famous humorist and writer Mark Twain once said, “Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”
I consider the theory that global warming is caused by mankind to be just one more example of the continuing tradition scientists have of extrapolating well beyond what they think they know. In his 1883 book Life on the Mississippi, Mark Twain also expressed perfectly the proclivity of scientists for turning observations of the natural world into long range predictions which were clearly outlandish.
Twain humorously extrapolated an observed change in the length of the Mississippi River forward and back in time by millions of years to demonstrate the absurdity of the conclusions one can reach when one assumes something currently observed will continue to happen at the same rate, indefinitely. Twain famously concluded, “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture from such a trifling investment of fact.”
Possibly the most prolific purveyor of failed environmental predictions is the MacArthur Foundation “genius grant” recipient, Stanford biologist Paul Ehrlich. Beginning in the 1960s, Dr. Ehrlich embarked on a series of premonitions that included dead oceans by 1979, hundreds of thousands of smog deaths in cities, pesticide-related cancers reducing average life expectancy to 42 years by 1980, and such an abuse of pesticides that would cause other countries to launch a nuclear attack on the U.S. out of fear of global poisoning.
For some strange reason, the more dire the prediction, the better chance of receiving a prestigious award for scaring the rest of humanity with it – Al Gore’s Nobel Peace Prize comes to mind.
Now, I am assuming that your local newspaper has already kept you sufficiently warned concerning the many different ways that you will suffer a premature death, most of which are now ultimately the result of manmade global warming. But one you might not have heard about is the recent decline in Great Lakes water levels which is (of course) also due to global warming. For instance, Lake Superior water levels in 2007 reached near-record lows.
I say “near-record” because a similar decline was observed in the early 1920s which culminated in the record low lake level of 1926. From reading media reports of the 1926 event, one can see the continuing tradition of experts to predict events that non-experts (the public) recognize to be foolish. A Duluth Herald editorial at the time gave the common sense explanation for low lake levels: “The weather bureau has issued a report on low lake levels.the Great Lakes watershed is in a cycle of light precipitation.levels will come back when.the dry cycle is succeeded by a wet one. There have been dry cycles before..and for every dry cycle there has been a wet one to follow.”
But the “experts” had a very different take on the issue, as reported in the May 27, 1926 issue of Daily Mining Journal: “Ultimate extinction of the American side of the falls at Niagara is mathematically certain unless water levels in the Great Lakes are raised.”
I have a difficult time reading that statement without laughing. But I suspect it wasn’t meant to be a joke. The silliness of such statements isn’t a failure of the scientific method, but a reflection of the fact that scientists are – believe it or not – human. I have personally heard scientists in leadership positions express the opinion that we need to stop producing carbon dioxide, no matter what the science says. These are the anointed ones who keep us informed on the “scientific consensus” on global warming, and who proclaim that “the debate is over.”
While the global-warming debate will probably slow down for some number of months, it will likely return with a vengeance sometime after the fall elections. This is, of course, unless our eight-year stretch of no warming continues. Since January of 2006 when Al Gore announced we have only ten years left to save ourselves, the globally averaged satellite measured temperature of the lower atmosphere has fallen by one degree Farenheit. Last month was the fifth-coolest month in the 30-year satellite record.
If global warming doesn’t get its act together pretty soon, there will be a lot of scientists (and more than a few politicians) who will look pretty foolish – but only to those who remember the foolish predictions. Since we still remember a few scientists in the 1970s who were announcing the arrival of a new ice age, I am hopeful that we will also be reminded of the catastrophic warming forecasts when they also fail.
But by then we will have moved on to new kinds of environmental catastrophes to predict and wring our hands over. After all, we scientists are human, too, and we must preserve our traditions.
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
– Euripides
No problem at all KansasNative on calling cosmos for what he is, the spawn of Satan.
And if you think the shutting down of the refinery by the Sierra Club in Illinois is bad, the Sierra Club is doing the same thing in Indiana. In fact, the Sierra Club is responsible for shutting down 20 refineries since 1995.
And everyone wonders why we are in the mess we are in with gasoline production.
Going from 60,000 barrell a day production to 500,000 barrell prodution at just one plant would help tremendously.
The Sierra Club, adored by cosmos is ruining this country and driving it to an economic hell-hole.
So I will not bow down to people like cosmos who want to kill businesses, hundreds of thousands of jobs and millions of livlihoods just because of some ridiculous technical aspect they can get their lawyers to sue about.
cosmos himself has said the computer climate models are inaccurate, yet he proclaims them every day to be the predictor of our future climate. What the heck! If they are inaccurate, why are they being used to try and dictate policy?
Something very wrong and intellectually dishonest about that. I will attack those who bring messages of deceipt about our country.
A plea for civility…
Fellow posters,
In my humble opinion, one is better able to discredit an opponent by stating one’s opinion backed up with relevant facts and references and by avoiding name-calling and personal insults.
If we refuse to be baited into responding to our opponent’s personal attacks, we win. The name-caller is not given the satisfaction of provoking us, and loses in the eyes of readers by the sheer ugliness of their comments.
The so-called “conservatives” on this board are seeing the fruits of their philosophy every day as the Bush administration crashes and burns. Their desperation is obvious.
I propose that we progressives take the high road and stick to the issues and our solutions to the problems America and the world is facing, and leave the politics of personal destruction for them to use. What goes around comes around.
Namaste.
I thought “the Spawn of Satan” was a comic book.
Perhaps if you hold the Bible, clutch a rosary, make the sign of the Cross, and sprinkle Holy Water on your head you will be safe.
DavidB…..aaawwwww, shoot….ok
In 2006 the north sea fields went into decline. We all compete for oil in the international markets.
http://www.iags.org/n0524043.htm
snip
The swing from net exports to net imports is likely to harm those European economies producing oil and gas, particularly those of Britain, Norway and Denmark. It will generate a major additional annual burden on the balance of trade of Britain and Norway adding 65 to 85% to the level of these countries trade deficit. But even those European countries that do not produce oil are likely to suffer as a result of the decline. They will be forced to import more oil from remote areas incurring higher transport costs.
Yesterday George WMD Bush got his ass handed him –
A “goddamned piece of paper” quashed Shrub’s attempt to shred the Bill of Rights.
The right to habeas corpus had been a pillar of human liberty since the Magna Carta.
That is, ’til Dumbya played political dictator and empower himself to arrest, detain, and ignore the rights of anyone he wanted.
That is, until the SCOTUS stopped his coup d’etat.
Here’s part of Justice Kennedy’s majority opinion –
The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times. Liberty and security can be reconciled; and in our system they are reconciled within the framework of the law. The Framers decided that habeas corpus, a right of first importance, must be a part of that framework, a part of that law.
annie – the European countries will be insulated at least some from the oil shocks. They have wind and nuclear as significant sources of power. They also don’t have so many gas-thirsty Suburban Assault Vehicles to feed.
Terrorists who aren’t citizens of the US are not subject to Constitutional protections.
But having said that, even accused terrorist should have some recourse.
Not that I feel much sympathy for those that want to kill my family.
The United States is a unique country Ben. There is no other single country in the world that is as big in size, big in population and big in economy than the U.S.
This means infrastructure with humongous distances required to be traveled by road or rail. In Europe, the distance is seldom more than 200 miles. In the U.S. it is often 3-5 times that much to get goods to market.
Oil and gas consuming cars have nothing to do with nuclear or wind energy anyway. There are no wind or nuclear powered cars.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080613.RREYNOLDS13/TPStory/Business
Interesting viewpoint. Could this technology be a global thermostat?
“Mr. Carlin, senior economist with the Environmental Protection Agency in Washington, says bluntly that conventional approaches to global warming will almost certainly fail, “quite possibly, disastrously.” These centralized control techniques, he says, are based almost exclusively on the global rationing of fossil fuels, a mechanism that dooms “de-carbonization” to failure…
Mr. Carlin argues that no global warming of any kind has taken place in the past decade and that the world needs to deploy climate change control mechanisms that can deal, on short notice, with different degrees of either global warming or global cooling.
The real problem, Mr. Carlin says, isn’t carbon, per se. “When the Earth is warming, it is receiving more radiation energy than it is losing, which is the basic cause of increasing global temperatures,” he says. “If not corrected, either by man or by nature, the climate system may get out of control – with unknown, but possibly catastrophic, consequences. The actual solution is to bring Earth’s radiation balance into equilibrium.”
He advocates solar radiation management (SRM), a geo-engineering solution that would mimic volcanoes – but without the destruction.
“SRM would control temperatures by reducing the radiation reaching the Earth from the sun. This can be most easily accomplished by adding particles to the stratosphere [which would] scatter small, calculated portions of selected wavelengths of incoming sunlight back into space. These particles would naturally, and slowly, drop out of the stratosphere, and would be replaced, making it relatively easy to make rapid adjustments” – for either warming or cooling. (Cooling would require different particles.)
Mr. Carlin says SRM would turn global warming into a technical challenge, not an ideological contest. It would really be no more difficult, he says, than your average aerospace project and would cost roughly 1/10,000th as much as carbon regulation to keep the average global temperature less than 2 C above its presumably benign preindustrial level.
This technology-based solution, he says, would require no change in lifestyles, no sacrifice in standards of living and no “extensive economic and energy planning.” Perhaps this helps explain why it is neither discussed nor researched by environmentalists or governments. Environmentalists almost always select solutions that require changes in lifestyle and standards of living. Governments almost always select solutions that expand bureaucracies.”
“The right to habeas corpus had been a pillar of human liberty since the Magna Carta.”
You mean, like when thae pillar of liberalizm, FDR detained the citizens of the United States of Japanese dexcent?
“That is, ’til Dumbya played political dictator and empower himself to arrest, detain, and ignore the rights of anyone he wanted.”
Oh, okay. right.
“He advocates solar radiation management (SRM), a geo-engineering solution that would mimic volcanoes – but without the destruction.”
This has been discussed a lot over the years. Basically the idea is to inject enough particulate and/or aerosol pollution into the upper atmosphere to ’shade’ the earth. Most climate scientists are dubious of that approach for a number of reasons.
Thanks for that post MonkeyHawk!
Everyone please take note the decision was ONE vote shy of taking away this “pillar of human liberty since the Magna Carta.”
Tells you who should be in the position of Supreme Court Judge nominations and how carefully we should consider our vote this fall!
The term of a Supreme lasts much longer than that of any president!
DavidB, Namaste.
I had to look it up, I’m glad to know this word! Thanks! Oh, and I’ll try, I’ll try harder…
“There is no other single country in the world that is as big in size, big in population and big in economy than the U.S.”
Not exactly true. The EU is comparable in population although not quite as spread out. However, last time I checked a car gets me to work just as well as a Hummer.
China’s economy is approaching ours and their population is about four times ours. India’s is also coming on strong.
America should use its ‘uniqueness’ to be the world’s technological leader in clean energy. Instead, we are lagging far behind. Why do we have to IMPORT wind turbines instead of building them here?
“outlander” overrules the Supreme Court with –
“Terrorists who aren’t citizens of the US are not subject to Constitutional protections.”
You really don’t get it, do you?
The Right to Habeas Corpus isn’t a right bestowed by the Constitution, it’s a foundation of personal liberty; a wall against government deciding you need to be thrown in a dungeon and left to die.
“littlejohn” mentioned the internment of Japanese Americans in World War II. Damned straight that was a clearly unconstitutional, racist, fear-mongering act against of all that is Freedom! Poor, pathetic “littlejohn” so wants to turn this into a left/right Democratic/Republic Pary, “librul” vs. CONservative tangent, he doesn’t get it either.
Ben my point is world wide supply is in decline. Please note the 20 top producing oil fields. The point I was trying to make was the sierra club has little to do with the price of gas.
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/4/18/2149/32950
1. Ghawar Unknown
2a. Burgan CONFIRMED DECLINE ~14% (Source)
2b. Cantarell CONFIRMED DECLINE ~14% (Source)
3. Bolivar Coastal Unknown
4. Safaniya-Khafji Unknown
5. Rumaila Unknown
6. Tengiz Unknown
7. Ahwaz CONFIRMED DECLINE ~64% (HOLY CRAP!) (Source)
8. Kirkuk CONFIRMED DECLINE Need Source
9. Marun CONFIRMED DECLINE (Source)
10. Gachsaran Unknown
11. Aghajari CONFIRMED DECLINE (Source)
12. Samotlor CONFIRMED DECLINE ~ 9% (Simmons’ book IIRC)
13a. Prudhoe Bay CONFIRMED DECLINE ~11% (Multiple sources)
13b. Kashagan Unknown
14. Abqaiq I don’t know, but have you seen the cross section? It’s all water!
15. Romashkino Unknown
16. Chicontepec Unknown
17. Berri Unknown
18. Zakum Unknown
19. Manifa Unknown
20. Faroozan-Marjan Unknown
21. Marlim, Campos CONFIRMED DECLINE ~8% (Source)
DavidB, while I agree with your sentiments, it is in fact the “progressives” who are part and parcel of the problem. Civility cuts both ways; the “progressives” have made no effort to be so, and instigate the majority of the incivility.
My .02.
As to the SCOTUS, I agree with them. Persons, not citizens, are entitled to certain rights. Detainees in this war are in a unique position, unlike any previous POW experiences, but one cannot simply cut them off.
BTW – This is why the usual “the Republic is in collapse; Bush is a dictator” pablum from the moonbats is just that: pablum. This sort of push back and forth between the brances of government is normal and predictable. It’s called checks and balances, and it works. Bush is not the first president to exercise these kinds of powers, and not the first to be reigned in by Congress and Courts who assert themselves. He won’t be the last.
The sky was never falling.
The EU, like it not Ben, is comprised of different countries, different constitutions, different languages and different cultures. I’ve lived their for 8 years and know a bit what it’s like to live in Europe.
I’ll repeat, there is no single country of the same government that is as unique as the United States in geographic size, population, finished infracture and dominating businesses.
I don’t disagree about nuclear and wind power, but those are separate issues from transportation.
The prevention of oil refineries increased production by the Sierra Club is almost to the point of being criminal as it interferes with interstate commerce.
It’s time to put a stop to the thuggery pulled of by Alarmists and organizations like the Sierra Club who are absolutely killing the economy of the United States with their anti-technology focus.
GMC70, YOU just contributed to “the problem” by laying the blame at the feet of ANY one group of people. If you really were trying to be fair-minded you could easily see the disruption knows no party boundaries.
“The prevention of oil refineries increased production by the Sierra Club is almost to the point of being criminal as it interferes with interstate commerce.”
Supply of refined products a problem? Your bitch is with the price. Blame that on crude and weakness of the dollar.
If the margins were higher on refined products you would see more refineries here. News flash the free market works.
Supply of refined products a problem? Your bitch is with the price. Blame that on crude and weakness of the dollar.
If the crude cannot get to the refineries because they don’t exist, then a shortfall occurs for obtainable supply and resupply.
The artificial price raise is directly caused by limited distribution of petroleum by products. The production of crude and the potential production of crude hasn’t even began to be tapped in the U.S. and Canada. The U.S. has the potential for crude production even larger than Saudia Arabia.
So when the Sierra Club interrupts the production and delivery of crude to refineries, they are interrupting the flow of commerce to meet the nations supply and demand. To me, that is a criminal act.
““littlejohn” mentioned the internment of Japanese Americans in World War II. Damned straight that was a clearly unconstitutional, racist, fear-mongering act against of all that is Freedom! Poor, pathetic “littlejohn” so wants to turn this into a left/right Democratic/Republic Pary, “librul” vs. CONservative tangent, he doesn’t get it either.
”
HAHAHAHAH. I am neither, poor, nor pathetic. You brought in the politics of is not happening till the current administration. WHat a load of BS. ANd you knew it. You just couldn;t stand not taking a shot apparently, at Dubya and then me. SO, I guess that is what makes you happy. As I said on the thread yesteray. Follow the law. SCOTUS has spoken. Just do it. So, Monkeyhawk, how does that fit into your little scenario of
“wants to turn this into a left/right Democratic/Republic Pary, “librul” vs. CONservative tangent”
ANSER DING! DING! DING! IT DOESN:T!
And since you didn;t answer yesterday, why do you continue to place my nic in quotations marks? Just don;t like it? What?
Monkey, your inability to see what you yourself do is amazing. You accuse LJ of trying to turn this into conservative versus liberal. Who started it, you pompous windbag? This sound familiar:
“Yesterday George WMD Bush got his ass handed him –
A “goddamned piece of paper” quashed Shrub’s attempt to shred the Bill of Rights.
The right to habeas corpus had been a pillar of human liberty since the Magna Carta.
That is, ’til Dumbya played political dictator and empower himself to arrest, detain, and ignore the rights of anyone he wanted.
That is, until the SCOTUS stopped his coup d’etat.”
———–
At least take the freaking log out of your eye before you come preaching.
” In the U.S. it is often 3-5 times that much to get goods to market.” — Regular.
Caused I might point out, by our transportation system. Vegetables, soda pop, milk, cheese, fruits, meat, furniture, bricks — nearly everything — was a local product. Cheap transportation made efficiencies of scale possible, but look what it has done to us in the long run. A lot of good and a lot of bad and a lot of who knows?
“Regular” what you don’t understand (well, among the so many things you obviously don’t understand) is that you’re bumper-sticker “solution” only can work with a nationalized oil industry.
If a multi-national corporate gets oil from ANWAR or anywhere, they’ll put it into the international market, where it will be a drop in the bucket (not barrel, mind you, bucket in the world’s oil supply.
The only way “Drill Here! Refine here! Burn here!” memes make sense is if all American-developed oil isn’t part of the commodity worldwide. Iran does that (57-cents-a-gallon in Tehran). Saudi Arabia does that (74-cents-a-gallon in Mecca). As long as Mobil/Exxon and Chevron and Shell etc. are capitalists, their priorities will trump any and all democracies. And their only-est priority is profit.
Big Oil wants only to get more money out of you pocket than government does. They’re workin’ on it… and succeeding.
Reg.
google refineries, gasoline distribution and refined products profit margins. One of the major companies are selling their retail division because of low profitabitily. Might be exxon mobil can’t recall.
Have a nice day.
“Regular” is such a tool –
“Supply of refined products a problem?”
In a word, no.
And that should tell you something.
We don’t have gas 70s-era gas lines anymore. If you’re willing to pay the price there’s plenty of fuel.
Funny how that works, isn’t it?
We don’t have any filling stations with hand-written signs that say “No Gas” anymore. Why? Because there’s plenty of gas and Big Oil can reap more money with it thanks to their owning the economy.
The way to get out from under such a non-competitive, non-monopolist system? Well, there’s “Regular” solution (Drill here! Refine here! Sell here! Burn here!) or there’s the logical and conservative version (mine) which commits this nation to non-fossil fuel. Yeah, that’d screw up the existing economy for a while, what with energy as it’s dealt with now is institutionalized.
But it’s coming.
If the Libs above think transportation solutions without petroleum based products in the near future, then think again.
Electric cars or cars with alternative energy solutions are a long, long way from being viable and not even close to becoming mainstream.
That means in the next 30-40 years the U.S. will have to depend on petroleum based transportation to get the job done.
Inhibitions caused by lawsuits like those that the Sierra Club puts up is killing our economy and its ability to create jobs, supply gasoline and further our economy.
We have oil reserves as large and some say larger than Saudia Arabia. Why not use our own reserves instead of oil owned by nationalist companies ran by dictators?
DRILL HERE
DRILL NOW
PAY LESS
Oh yeah, but ANWAR is the problem….
“WASHINGTON In a bid to force oil companies to drill more on existing oil and gas leases, House Democrats today unveiled a plan that would assess new fees on existing acreage producers may be holding but on which they are not actively working.
With the slogan “use it or lose it,” Democrats introduced legislation that would force producers to pay $5 a year for every acre the companies hold but are not working on to produce oil and gas. By the fourth year, the fees would jump to $25 an acre and rise to $50 an acre every year thereafter.
Democrats complain that oil and gas producers keep calling for access to new federal lands but have failed to begin work on existing acreage the Democrats say could yield an estimated 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of gas per day.”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/5833333.ht...
Why drill in the Artic National Wildlife Refuge when they already have millions of acres of land that they refuse to drill in????
Can;t open the link. Good quesiton though. Perhaps the article has an answer? Perhaps it is high cost of drilling vs little recoverable oil? In any case, charging them more for not using the acreage they have sounds like a fine idea. Use it or lose it. WOuld like to read more about this.
And now, for something different….
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080612/ap_on_fe_st/odd_pregnant_sea_dragon
I wonder if the pregnant male sea dragon will be invited to appear on the Oprah show?
Back to business.
Quoted from a post on the Running On Empty forum:
“Also, CWEI board has been talking (from first-hand knowledge of the
posters) about extreme shortages of steel pipe. And apparently, the
U.S. stuck a big fat trade tariff on Chinese steel pipe, which the
Chinese are livid about, so that we are no longer getting “subsidized”
Chinese steel tubular products. Not, perhaps, the very smartest time
for a tariff dispute in a critical material?”
Here’s a post about it:
http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=2234&mid=496...
Pipe in the Oil Patch
“A project manager I know says the home office is concerned enough
about the steel product supply situation that they are telling him
not to start drilling until the items necessary to complete the well
are on hand.
They are concerned about having a rig finish a hole and not having
enough pipe to complete the well. That would mean huge expense to
either keep the rig sitting there or plugging the well on the way out
of the hole to redrill later. They authorized the money to buy and
stockpile pipe, wellheads and seperators to complete 65 wells before
the end of the year. That is a pot of money, folks, and all up-front.
So far, they have pipe for the next 2 wells, 31 wellheads and 12
seperators on hand. Yesterday, 3 loads of pipe, paid for and
supposedly shipped, didn’t arrive at the lease. No one knows (or more
accurately, will say) where it went. There appears to be some
question whether it ever existed at all. This is not a local,
isolated problem – this company buys tubular products from every mill on earth.”
Y’all better learn to speak Mandarin…
Interesting, we are knee deep in a quagmire in Iraq, and the perpetrator of 9/11 is still on the loose……………………………….
http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/13/1138296.aspx
“Where is Osama Bin Laden? An analysis”
“We don’t have a clue where he is or even may be,” the Western analyst said. “We have had NO credible intelligence on OBL since 2001. All the rest is rumor and rubbish either whipped up by the media or churned out in the power corridors of western capitals.”
Great.
Dead or alive – or maybe not.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/story/433536.html
Become a Mentor.
I sincerely hope that some of you will consider this. If you need any information, you can visit http://www.kansasmentors.org
Sorry about the link LJ. I dont know why it wont open now.
“In the final analysis, the last line of defense in support of freedom and the Constitution consists of the people themselves. If the people want to be free, if they want to lift themselves out from underneath a state apparatus that threatens their liberties, squanders their resources on needless wars, destroys the value of their dollar, and spews forth endless propaganda about how indispensable it is and how lost we would all be without it, there is no force that can stop them.” (Ron Paul: The Revolution: A Manifesto)
http://www.campaignforliberty.com
Everyone here should sign up for this website. It is going to be massive.
This website plans to inform all of us about upcoming legislature that is not in our best interest as a country. It also plans to educate all of us and spread the message of freedom.
This is in every single one of your best interests. Party lines do not matter. Freedom is not picky and accepts all with open arms. We have been waiting for something like this for a long time.
Imagine being able to know that an illegal immigration bill is about to go to congress. Imagine being able to know that a 2nd ammendment bills is going to the senate. Imagine knowing that a Real ID act is getting ready to be introduced. Every single bill right there for you to email your congressman or senator and tell him your thoughts.
You can get a great education on Economics, and sound money. You can watch videos with useful information.
You will be groomed to take local, county, state, and federal seats if you choose to do so. You will get support from those who have been there and can help you get to where you want to go.
Please check it out at least. Freedom is popular and long overdue for all Americans.
Friday, June 13, 2008
Over the past 17 months you and I delivered a message of freedom, the likes of which American politics has not seen in decades. With the primary season now over, the presidential campaign has come to an end. But the Revolution has only begun.
Today I am happy to announce the official launch of the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty. Please visit our new website and join us: http://www.campaignforliberty.com
Over the next few months I will be developing a program, assembling a team, and announcing new and exciting projects. We will have a permanent presence on the American political landscape. That I promise you.
Right now, I need your patience and support. I want the Campaign for Liberty to be a grassroots campaign; so your energy, your creativity, your feedback, and your participation are essential.
Together, we will educate our fellow Americans in freedom, sound money, non-interventionism, and free markets. We will write commentaries and broadcast videos on the news of the day. And I’ll work with friends whom I respect to design materials for homeschoolers.
Politically, we will expand the great work of our precinct leader program. We will make our presence felt at every level of government. We will keep an eye on Congress, and lobby against legislation that threatens us. And we will identify and support candidates who champion our great ideas.
May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in a moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the establishment, and saved their country.
SolDevVB,
The Revolution lives in brother. Spread the message. This website is going to turn this country inside-out. We are going to have one of the most informed generations in decades.
God Bless you!
Just for you MonkeyHawk!
Bush’s America: 100 Percent Al-Qaida Free Since 2001
by Ann Coulter
In a conversation recently, I mentioned as an aside what a great president George Bush has been and my friend was surprised. I was surprised that he was surprised.
I generally don’t write columns about the manifestly obvious, but, yes, the man responsible for keeping Americans safe from another terrorist attack on American soil for nearly seven years now will go down in history as one of America’s greatest presidents.
Produce one person who believed, on Sept. 12, 2001, that there would not be another attack for seven years, and I’ll consider downgrading Bush from “Great” to “Really Good.”
Merely taking out Saddam Hussein and his winsome sons Uday and Qusay (Hussein family slogan: “We’re the Rape Room People!”) constitutes a greater humanitarian accomplishment than anything Bill Clinton ever did — and I’m including remembering Monica’s name on the sixth sexual encounter.
But unlike liberals, who are so anxious to send American troops to Rwanda or Darfur, Republicans oppose deploying U.S. troops for purely humanitarian purposes. We invaded Iraq to protect America.
It is unquestionable that Bush has made this country safe by keeping Islamic lunatics pinned down fighting our troops in Iraq. In the past few years, our brave troops have killed more than 20,000 al-Qaida and other Islamic militants in Iraq alone. That’s 20,000 terrorists who will never board a plane headed for JFK — or a landmark building, for that matter.
We are, in fact, fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them at, say, the corner of 72nd and Columbus in Manhattan — the mere mention of which never fails to enrage liberals, which is why you should say it as often as possible.
The Iraq war has been a stunning success. The Iraqi army is “standing up” (as they say), fat Muqtada al-Sadr –the Dr. Phil of Islamofascist radicalism — has waddled off in retreat to Iran, and Sadr City and Basra are no longer war zones. Our servicemen must be baffled by the constant nay-saying coming from their own country.
The Iraqis have a democracy — a miracle on the order of flush toilets in that godforsaken region of the world. Despite its newness, Iraq’s democracy appears to be no more dysfunctional than one that would condemn a man who has kept the nation safe for seven years while deifying a man who has accomplished absolutely nothing in his entire life except to give speeches about “change.”
(Guess what Bill Clinton’s campaign theme was in 1992? You are wrong if you guessed: “bringing dignity back to the White House.” It was “change.” In January 1992, James Carville told Steve Daley of The Chicago Tribune that it had gotten to the point that the press was complaining about Clinton’s “constant talk of change.”)
Monthly casualties in Iraq now come in slightly lower than a weekend with Anna Nicole Smith. According to a CNN report last week, for the entire month of May, there were only 19 troop deaths in Iraq. (Last year, five people on average were shot every day in Chicago.) With Iraqi deaths at an all-time low, Iraq is safer than Detroit — although the Middle Eastern food is still better in Detroit.
Al-Qaida is virtually destroyed, surprising even the CIA. Two weeks ago, The Washington Post reported: “Less than a year after his agency warned of new threats from a resurgent al-Qaida, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden now portrays the terrorist movement as essentially defeated in Iraq and Saudi Arabia and on the defensive throughout much of the rest of the world, including in its presumed haven along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.”
It’s almost as if there’s been some sort of “surge” going on, as strange as that sounds.
Just this week, The New York Times reported that al-Qaida and other terrorist groups in Southeast Asia have all but disappeared, starved of money and support. The U.S. and Australia have been working closely with the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia, sending them counterterrorism equipment and personnel.
But no one notices when 9/11 doesn’t happen. Indeed, if we had somehow stopped the 9/11 attack, we’d all be watching Mohammed Atta being interviewed on MSNBC, explaining his lawsuit against the Bush administration. Maureen Dowd would be writing columns describing Khalid Sheik Mohammed as a “wannabe” terrorist being treated like Genghis Khan by an excitable Bush administration.
We begin to forget what it was like to turn on the TV, see a tornado, a car chase or another Pamela Anderson marriage and think: Good — another day without a terrorist attack.
But liberals have only blind hatred for Bush — and for those brute American interrogators who do not supply extra helpings of béarnaise sauce to the little darlings at Guantanamo with sufficient alacrity.
The sheer repetition of lies about Bush is wearing people down. There is not a liberal in this country worthy of kissing Bush’s rear end, but the weakest members of the herd run from Bush. Compared to the lickspittles denying and attacking him, Bush is a moral giant — if that’s not damning with faint praise. John McCain should be so lucky as to be running for Bush’s third term. Then he might have a chance.
I am not interested in Ron Paul’s call to arms for the liberty of rich white men at the expense of everyone else.
Objectivist
Amen brother. Already emailed it out. Will keep the word going.
BlueJay
You are entitled to feel any way you please. But please do inform yourself. You seem to understand neither the movement nor revolution. Open your eyes beyond what the media has filled your mind with. Become enlightened brother. This is not a revolution for the few; it is a revolution for the entire country that we love.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
Fiscally conservative.
Socially liberal.
“by Ann Coulter”
Ann Coulter – “that would teach liberals that they too can be killed.”
Yep, Ann “the Man” Coulter is one helluva woman.
While I agree with many of the statements Objectivist and SolDevVB made yesterday, I still have a problem with many of the positions of the Libertarian Party. Ron Paul, IMO, had some good ideas, but after reading through his website, I had to give him an overall thumbs down.
I can never agree that everything in this country should be privatized, and from what I’ve heard and ready about the Libertarian Party, this is a mainstay of the group. If deregulation has FUBARed the communications and airline industries, to name two, imagine what privatization will do to our daily lives. And if you can’t, just let me know. I’ll give a couple of examples.
Moderation in everything, gentlemen.
“by Ann Coulter”
The hate. Why is there so much hate. This is America. We are all Americans. We are in grave jeopardy. Unite and inform yourselves. Dig beyond the political rhetoric. Dig beyond the media spin. Dig beyond the hate. Inform yourselves. Free yourselves from the bonds of the D or R label you have placed on yourself.
Unite
As
Americans
“Bush is a moral giant ”
Is that the joke or the punch line??
Predestined
How do you feel about the federal reserve and what it has done to the dollars in your pocket?
I think she meant to say “Bush is a moral gnat”. ??
BlueJay
Posted June 13, 2008 at 10:40 am | Permalink
I am not interested in Ron Paul’s call to arms for the liberty of rich white men at the expense of everyone else.
__________________________________________________
I am disappointed that you feel this way. You are in America and entitled to what you believe. The rich white man you speak of will also be covered in our mission. For you see, it is about all Americans, regardless of race, color, economic situation, religion, party, etc.
We are looking out for every single one of them. In order to be treated as equals, you must not look at people in groups. Individualism is the only way to go. Self-reliance on yourself. Always willing to grow and educate yourself even more than yesterday.
I will not shun you or anyone. Let me know when you want to help join the cause.
It is no mans obligation to be forced to take care of one another. You will notice that charity was at an all-time high in the 80’s. It was not a greedy decade as you may be led to believe.
You will see giving, volunteering, and wealth increase for every man willing to do his part. Society rest on everyone of our shoulders. No man can push the burden of his load onto others, especially if society is headed for destruction. Therefore, we must all thrust ourselves vigorously into the intellectual battle.
You’ll come around. Something will open your eyes one day, and I’ll be there to welcome you with open arms.
“Objectivist” raves –
http://www.campaignforliberty.com
Everyone here should sign up for this website. It is going to be massive
Once again Ron Paul suspends his current campaign to… start a new campaign. And the Paul-bearers scramble to find a way to send Paul more money.
The guy’s a damned political evangelist.
Even the introductory letter to to “Campaign for Liberty” web site can’t resist a plug to go out and buy Paul’s new book.
This isn’t a political campaign, it’s an advertising campaign. The only movement involved is the movement of your money to his bank account.
On another thread I tried to explain Libertarianism to you guys:
Some of your ideas make sense.
Some of your ideas might work.
None of your ideas are both.
Oh, but it can make money! It can sell books! It can generate contributions! It can keep Ron Paul in private jets.
“Unite as Americans”
We have different and irreconcilable differences as to what the country should be. You are no more interested or part of my America than I am yours.
And any “great danger” that exists is only to you and yours.
“Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”
http://gorillasguides.com/2008/06/13/if-you-want-to-help-iran-dont-attack-interview-with-shirin-ebadi/
snip
“The morality police interfere more in people’s everyday lives,” she says. “They recently announced they would carry out inspections in private homes and companies. In Tehran there was also a plan to target hooligans on the streets, but it led to a lot of innocent young people and women being arrested.”
Ebadi, 60, has been relatively lucky. She was born in 1947 to a non-traditional Muslim family. She was treated as an equal with her brother and encouraged to go to college. In 1975, aged 23, she became Iran’s first woman judge. She lost her position after the Islamic revolution in 1979 when conservative clerics insisted that Islam prohibits women from holding such an office. She was allowed to practice law again in 1992, and since then has turned her legal skills against the Islamic republic she once supported but now opposes due to its human rights abuses.
Ebadi recently took her campaign to the mid-west United States, where she found sympathy among ordinary Americans upset by bellicose rhetoric about Iran. She is perturbed at how contestants in the US presidential race have cited their preparedness to attack Iran. In April, Hillary Clinton said she would “obliterate” the country if it attacked Israel.
“It is very concerning,” she says. “Undoubtedly a military attack on Iran would worsen human rights in the country. Look at Iraq – now the fundamentalists have a pretext for their extremism. No one talks about freedom of speech or human rights. People just want a safe shelter.
“Do you think that since the US troops arrived in Iraq that the Iraqi people have become prosperous? As a human rights activist I tell the people of the world that if you want to help people in Iran the solution is not to launch an attack.”
Predestined
Posted June 13, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
While I agree with many of the statements Objectivist and SolDevVB made yesterday, I still have a problem with many of the positions of the Libertarian Party. Ron Paul, IMO, had some good ideas, but after reading through his website, I had to give him an overall thumbs down.
I can never agree that everything in this country should be privatized, and from what I’ve heard and ready about the Libertarian Party, this is a mainstay of the group. If deregulation has FUBARed the communications and airline industries, to name two, imagine what privatization will do to our daily lives. And if you can’t, just let me know. I’ll give a couple of examples.
Moderation in everything, gentlemen.
________________________________________________
I am not asking you to join a “party”. You have to stop looking at people in groups. This movement stands for individual rights and true liberty ans freedom.
Let me put it to you this way. We are so entrenched into the federal reserve system right now, that it is going to cause a quick, but steep pain in America. The bad politics of the last century cannot be fixed in a day.
I will make this promise to you though. I have all the scientific, mathmatical, and historical facts that will back up Americas need to rid itself of the federal reserve system.
If we do not rid ourselves of the federal reserve system, America will fall. I promise with all of my being. We will continue to slowly destroy this country if we continue down this path. In order to have long term gain, we must take the short term pain that will result in the abolishment of the federal reserve system. Right now, we take the short term gain, and forget about the long term pain.
We are the most resilient people in the world. We will come back and be stronger than ever. Think about our future generations. It is immoral to bring them into a world of debt that they must repay.
Join us and help save all Americans. The other side is so much better.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic TRANQUILITY, provide for the COMMON defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Capitalization for emphasis mine.
Now it DOES merit remembering that when these proud words were written, “people” meant only rich white men. They were writing not just a compact of states but a social strategy to protect themselves and their own status and wealth.
We have considerably more “people” these days. Those words have to apply to all of those people or they mean nothing.
“BlueJay.” I wish you’d dial it back when you post –
“We have different and irreconcilable differences…”
They’d better not be “irreconcilable.” Else we’re in a whole lotta trouble.
We’re gonna have to reconcile sometime. That doesn’t always mean compromise or cave in, and it doesn’t always mean fall-on-your-sword to defend the perfect from the good.
Ultimately — and probably not in my lifetime — we’ve got to figure it out that we’re all in this together.
BlueJay
Posted June 13, 2008 at 11:03 am | Permalink
“Unite as Americans”
We have different and irreconcilable differences as to what the country should be. You are no more interested or part of my America than I am yours.
And any “great danger” that exists is only to you and yours.
“Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”
_______________________________________________
Please to elaborate on your idea of what the country should be?
You should read “Socialism” by F.A. Hayek. I have a feeling that some of your ideas may be refuted by this Nobel Prize winning author.
None of the mainstream candidates will bring you what you want. Only freedom can allow us to pursue happiness. It cannot be given to you.
BTW, I apologize if I implied that you are a socialist. I am not doing that at all. I just think it is a great book that shows why Socialism has failed and will continue to fail forever.
God Bless!
The multitude of issues that we face in this country are far to great for one man (or woman) or one party to solve. Today, we are deeper in the muck than anytime since the Great Depression. It is going to take a collective effort by Americans for Americans to restore this country, lest we become a third rate power.
This is not the time for sunny optimism or defiant insistence that all would be well in the world if we just would elect so-and-so to office.
That ain’t gonna happen.
Ron Paul has ideas. Hillary Clinton has ideas. Barack Obama has ideas. John McCain has ideas that he borrowed from George W Bush.
The Fall election may be about “change” but we will soon realize that it needs to be about “sacrifice.”
It is going to take sacrifice on the part of all of us to get our country moving forward again.
The first thing that needs to be sacrificed is the partisan divide that keeps us from coming together as a country – a country that needs all of us to pull in the same direction.
The time is now and there is little time to lose.
“Objectivist” –
What, did you just read “The Fountainhead” for the first time?
Send your money.
Enjoy the euphoria of first-time libertarianism.
We’ve all been there.
Who knows their general welfare better than the individual?
I have seen this statement as one of the many that people interpret for their own means.
I believe that freedom is the general welfare and that they should protect our freedoms as a result.
Do you think that Robin Hood was a good movie? Do you like the idea of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor? That may have been necessary under such a repressive government so long ago.
It should not be necessary in a free society, for everyone is able to better himself in whatever way he sees fit. Those who don’t like that idea need to promote socialism.
I know several successful people. They are not evil, and give to charities all the time. Do not allow yourself to group people. It promotes collectivism and it hinders our ability to think critically. In fact, it shuts off thinking alltogether and your brains stops working.
Monkeyhawk:
1. some of your ideas make sense
2. some of your ideas will work
none of them are both
assuming that the below libertarian ideas lack the qualities of number 1 or number 2 or both
(given your statement that none of them are both)
which is lacking in the following Libertarian ideas?
a. smaller government: does that lack 1 or 2?
(if you need further clarification, here goes. Does it not make sense? Or will it not work? Or does it lack both qualifications) Please explain how it lacks either 1 or 2 or both
b. Noninterventionism, not involved in the internal affairs of other countries. Does it lack 1 or 2 or both? please explain
c. The elimination of all business and farm subsidies. 1 or 2 or both please explain
Perhaps we can start with these 3
Bluejay
You are no more interested or part of my America than I am yours.
How tragic that you think this way. United we stand, divided we fall. It sounds to me like you would rather fall, while waving your candidate’s banner, rather than reach out to every American. Truly tragic and a sign of our times.
And any “great danger” that exists is only to you and yours.
The great danger is to everyone Bluejay. We have a failing monetary system. We have entrenched a framework into our government that allows the few to control the many. Please don’t be fooled. The danger is great and is meant for one and all.
“Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”
I think that may be the most tragic thing I have ever read hear. What is it you sacrifice your freedom for Bluejay?
Now it DOES merit remembering that when these proud words were written, “people” meant only rich white men.
Who filled you with so much hate JR? This is unbelievable. I thought it was the right that had a corner on the hate filled radio shows. Is there a liberal show that I missed?
Those words have to apply to all of those people or they mean nothing.
Absolutely JR. That is the message of the movement. We are all Americans and all equal. Outstanding.
I would best be described as a social Democrat myself.
You have a different idea of “freedom” than I.
The minute a person is forced to sustain their survival and sustenance by punching a clock, pushing a broom, or answering a phone FOR someone else?
That person is no longer free.
It is the collective responsibility of society to defend the freedom of one individual from the exploitation of another. In an “every man for himself” society, there will be a few winners and MANY losers.
Monkeyhawk
Posted June 13, 2008 at 11:18 am | Permalink
Ultimately — and probably not in my lifetime — we’ve got to figure it out that we’re all in this together.
WSClark
Posted June 13, 2008 at 11:23 am | Permalink
The multitude of issues that we face in this country are far to great for one man (or woman) or one party to solve. Today, we are deeper in the muck than anytime since the Great Depression. It is going to take a collective effort by Americans for Americans to restore this country
You both clarify my point. This is not one party. This is one America. We resolve to end big government, illegal wars, war on your money for the good of the few (Fed. Resv.), and force our political leaders to 1) LISTEN to the voice of the people 2) Play by the rules and follow the constitution. If we accomplish this, we will have the America our founding fathers fought and died for.
“The minute a person is forced to sustain their survival and sustenance by punching a clock, pushing a broom, or answering a phone FOR someone else?
That person is no longer free.
It is the collective responsibility of society to defend the freedom of one individual from the exploitation of another. In an “every man for himself” society, there will be a few winners and MANY losers.”
I guess I don’t follow your analogy. Are you saying that people should choose whether to earn a living or live off the takings from those who do?
As a counter to Coulter’s insanity, read this:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/13/defeat_british_journalist_jonathan_steele_on
Hank and Ann fail to mention that if Rice and Bush could have been “troubled” to do their jobs, there may not have been a 9/11 attack. Funny how Ann and Hank forget those inconvenient details.
So what do those losers do?
Do they just quit and give up on life, or do they pursue something else? Do they educate themsleves?
Is it my job to make sure you have enough money to put food on your table?
I know that I’d do what ever I could to fix my current situation, short of robbery and unethical behavior.
Socialism has failed since the beginning of time. You think your gonna change that? It cannot be MADE anyones job to take care of everyone else. I choose to help other out because of what I feel. If I were forced to do it, I’d do less of it.
Think about that.
Sol
They should be free to live from wages or self-employment. The point that you made is whether they are FORCED to do so. If they CHOOSE to do so, fine. There is nothing wrong with that. If your employer is not giving you adequate pay/opportunity. You can look at other employers. There is still FREEDOM in that. If they are (like mine is) you stay with them. It seems a misnomer that Libertarians are against public property. The variable should be a CHOSEN public property, not a FORCED public property.
oops, the point Blue Jay made. My mistake.
The minute a person is forced to sustain their survival and sustenance by punching a clock, pushing a broom, or answering a phone FOR someone else?
That person is no longer free.
It is the collective responsibility of society to defend the freedom of one individual from the exploitation of another. In an “every man for himself” society, there will be a few winners and MANY losers.
He’s always free to quit, and find something else. And JR, ultimately, EVERY society is every man for himself. There has NEVER been a collectivist society, on any significant scale, that has worked. NEVER.
And those who claim to act “in the name of, in the best interests of, the many” are generally simply lining their own pockets. Lenin’s was a “people’s revolution.” But People’s Republics are invariably neither the peoples, nor republics.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. It never changes. And it never changes because human nature never changes.
You’re living in fantasyland, dude.
See how quickly you went defensive sol?
Sorry I didn’t cut and paste your words back. Broken mouse.
You reacted defensively and assumed a motive on my part that makes you afraid.
It’s the foundation of your whole movement. It was ALSO the basis for those proud words you so cling to.
You have and you want to keep. You see everything as a threat to that.
Well? I don’t “have” a whole lot of anything. That would include “hope”. And I’m part of a demographic that is only going to get larger. Why would such folk have a care if you are frightened?
Lawless government is is running rampant (on both sides) in this country. McCain is holding illegal foreign fundraisers and is saying that he doesn’t care that they are illegal. Something big is going to happen and no one gives a squat. The same old bickering from the same old and tired party-liners. Thanks for killing our country.
BlueJay
I merely stated I did not understand your post and wrote my understanding. If I have misunderstood your post, please explain it to me at a lower level that I can understand.
I was trained by the Army to be a Light Wheel Vehicle Mechanic (63B2P). After I got out, I got a job working on tractor trailers. $10.50 per hour back in the late 90’s. A decent wage. It didn’t afford me the lifestyle I wanted and breaking down 300# chains in 112 degree heat just got old. With a quickness.
I enrolled at a very affordable community college and began my education for a white collar job. Something that I was interested in and that would afford me the lifestyle I thought I wanted. School wasn’t enough. I began to acquire the tools I needed to train myself. I finished school just so I would have the sheep skin, but I paid for it doing the work I was training to do.
My wife works with an MA extern. She does MA work for free to complete her training. After she leaves that job, she goes to McDonald’s for income. She has two daughters at home that she sees mainly on the weekends. She busts her ass and in the end will be rewarded and will be able to provide her daughters with a better life. At the same time, she is instilling in her daughters a strong work ethic and showing them that they should never stop expanding themselves.
I have a brother in law that lost his job, and ultimately his house. He lost his house because instead of looking for work, he was happy to ‘live’ on unemployment. His wife finally found him a job. Now they have a new home.
I fear government repression. And snakes. That is about it JR.
Well? I don’t “have” a whole lot of anything. That would include “hope”.
What are you doing to change that JR?
I’ve gone bankrupt several times trying to pursue my happiness. I finally got there and I will be damned if I am going to allow it to be taken from me.
Besides the few tactics I know to protect my assets, I fear that I don’t know enough and may have it taken from me.
When Kucinich puts up the articles of impeachment and people laugh at it/him. Evil surely has taken hold of this (now) shithole. We allow crooks and liars and thieves carte-blanche to do whatever they want and all we ask in return is “to be protected” from phantom enemies who are never to be found or shut down or defeated. But the people with eyes opened know the enemy is from within. Which was how the founding fathers said our Republic would end. Laugh at Ron Paul, feel sorry for your useless selves and be the proud cowards you are. And watch as we get the “change” you are asking for. Only it won’t be what you intended.
Seig Heil.
If anyone needs any further assurance about the motivations of more than a few “right-to-life” leaders (or erstwhile leaders), a weary wandering through Randall Terry’s latest on-line priapism leaves little doubt: Does he care about “babies” – or does he care about….well….there’s no nice way to put this…….
It’s a @enis contest! It’s @enis pistonry through and through! His latest verbosity is, candidly, evidence of such blatant egotism, unbridled narcissism, sophomoric simpering, and self-love run amok that it’s almost amusing.
The self-described prophet visited our fair shores last week, and the stench is still discernible. (I thought I stepped in something several times; I had to bend over, raise my leg, and d–ned near break my back by the exertion. Shame on the overrated jzzzbag.)
Pro-life individuals gain my respect by being good people – and caring for others, whether they share all of my experiences or not. If that sounds simplistic, so be it.
Oh, muck that. This chick ain’t simple. A highly educated individual once told me, “You’re a complex woman…..but at least you ain’t boring!”
I can’t stay and play.
Notice how quickly the defenders of “I’ve got mine” are revealed?
Up goes the call. “Unite! We are all in this together!”
Then it all fades away into “How am I responsible for you?
Pretty words and shameless hypocrisy.
Not much more than “our lives, our trust and our sacred honor” meant to women, poor people or slaves in 1776.
BlueJay,
I haven’t seen any posts that were defensive. I have not seen you explain what you meant by being forced to work.
We are united. That means everyone works together. If you are looking for a coattail ride, stay with your party. Stay with the status quo, though that doesn’t seem to be working real well for you right now.
Best of luck in your endeavors BlueJay. And I do really hope you can enlighten yourself and shed the defeatist views (I may have misinterpreted) you posted here.
Steven,
I did read that. I am not sure how that counters anything Ann Coulter said.
I am not sure how you can read that and then post it here with a straight face either.
Trying to follow the logic (or complete lack of) of that interview was painful.
“WASHINGTON, June 12 (Reuters) – The U.S. Air Force has conceded that Boeing Co’s proposed KC-767 aerial refueling tanker would cost less over time than the winning plane offered by Northrop Grumman Corp and its European subcontractor EADS”
The minute a person is forced to sustain their survival and sustenance by punching a clock, pushing a broom, or answering a phone FOR someone else?
That person is no longer free.
I am still trying to understand this. Can anyone help me out? I’ve read it several times and still come up with the same thing.
I don’t know of anyone who is forced to work a specific job, less prisoners.
I don’t know of anyone that thinks the government should support them while they hang out at home. Anyone that has a grain of self respect that is.
So have I missed the mark? Please help.
SolDevVB,
You are talking to JR. Are you just now realizing how he is and what his attitude is????
I would be worried if you got the point of what the man was saying. For me, that would be unequivocal evidence he was completely screwed up. Thanks for fulfilling your important role here. We couldn’t do it without, ya!
Sorry, the above was directed at our blog-trog – Nathan Price(less).
Steven,
I was under the impression that today was the liberal “we want to get along day.”
I see by your post, that you were not part of their plans to demonstrate the civility they so wish to have here.
I’m asking anyone here if they read the same thing I did when reading JR’s post.
If not, please enlighten me.
Sol:
My experience speaking with economic liberals is that they consider a certain standard of living to be mandatory.
When one brings up winners and losers. I don’t agree with those labels. Some considered Sam Walton a “loser” at first glance. He obviously wasn’t. He just had a certain existential minimalism in his attitude. It wasn’t that he was necessarily cheap. He just didn’t like being told: THOU SHALT CONSIDER THIS A NECESSITY.
“CONGRESSMAN TO MCCAIN: STOP USING MY SONG!”
This is freakin’ hilarious – even if you are a John McCain supporter, you’ve got to laugh.
McCain has been using “Still the One” during his campaign. The guy that co-WROTE the song is a liberal Democrat Congressman from New York!
Whoops!
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/13/1138458.aspx
Iraqi PM: Talks With US at “Dead End”
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is claiming talks on a long-term agreement with the US have reached what he calls “a dead end.” US demands have included maintaining fifty-eight permanent military bases in Iraq, immunity for American troops and contractors, a free hand to conduct military operations without Iraqi approval, and control of Iraqi airspace. Speaking in Jordan, Maliki said, “We have reached an impasse, because when we opened these negotiations we did not realize that the US demands would so deeply affect Iraqi sovereignty, and this is something we can never accept.” The Independent of London reported last week the US is leveraging tens of billions of dollars in seized Iraqi assets to push through its demands. The Bush administration has angered Iraqi officials by refusing to lift support for Iraq’s UN designation as a threat to international security. The New York Times reports Iraqi officials will ask the UN Security Council today to expend its protection of Iraq against compensation claims.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/13/headlines
So if the current deal expires before this new deal is signed… do we go home?
Ron Paul’s point is that you’ll punch a clock, toil…whatever (for yourselves or someone else) but you’ll get to keep the fruits of your toiling. You won’t get half of your fruit taken to pay for the interest we are charged by the PRIVATE bankers to print the notes we use for daily transactions. If you think you don’t have to work in this country to survive, you are truly hopeless and have no one to blame for your circumstances but your own hopeless self.
When one brings up winners and losers. I don’t agree with those labels.
I don’t think I used those labels.
Objectivist
Posted June 13, 2008 at 12:02 pm | Permalink
I’ve gone bankrupt several times trying to pursue my happiness. I finally got there and I will be damned if I am going to allow it to be taken from me.
Besides the few tactics I know to protect my assets, I fear that I don’t know enough and may have it taken from me.
regular – troll boy
you’ve never owned a business to be bankrupt from — other tashn being personally bankrupt of any honor, ethics or judgement CHORRRRRRRRRRTLEEEE
COLUMBUS, Ohio – Democrat Barack Obama said Friday he would apply the Social Security payroll tax to all annual incomes above $250,000, which would affect the wealthiest 3 percent of Americans.
The presidential candidate told senior citizens in Ohio that it is unfair for middle-class earners to pay the Social Security tax “on every dime they make,” while millionaires and billionaires pay it on only “a very small percentage of their income.”
The 6.2 percent payroll tax is now applied to all income up to $102,000 a year, which covers the entire amount for most Americans. Under Obama’s plan, the tax would not apply to incomes between that amount and $250,000. But all annual income above the quarter-million-dollar amount would be taxed under his plan.
Obama has talked before of establishing such a “doughnut hole” in the amount of income subject to the Social Security tax. Friday marked the first time he named a restart level: $250,000 and above.
“Under Obama’s plan, the tax would not apply to incomes between that amount and $250,000. But all annual income above the quarter-million-dollar amount would be taxed under his plan.”
Why not just apply it to ALL income, I would say fine with me. For me, though, it would also be true that ss income would not be capped. The more you pay, the more you also get. After all, it is not an income transfer program, but a retirement program.
After all, it is not an income transfer program, but a retirement program.
Spot on.
I am not 100% for sure on this, but isn’t SS capped?
You only get so much once you are eligable, correct?
So, would increasing the amount that those making over 250k pay into SS increase what the get back when they can get SS?
Somehow I don’t think so.
Seems like smoke and mirrors for simply raising taxes on the “wealthy” while being able to call it “fair”
You didn’t use the winner’s/losers Sol. Blue Jay did. That is who I was referring to.
But he left so I couldn’t really speak to him.
“You only get so much once you are eligable, correct?
So, would increasing the amount that those making over 250k pay into SS increase what the get back when they can get SS?”
That is correct, it is capped. So, without changing the current program, the answer is no, increasing the amount that the “wealthy”, over 250K earners pay in would not change how much they got back. Hence, my statement.
Littlejohn,
Is just seems a bit dishonest of Obama to say:
“The presidential candidate told senior citizens in Ohio that it is unfair for middle-class earners to pay the Social Security tax “on every dime they make,” while millionaires and billionaires pay it on only “a very small percentage of their income.””
The wealthy may only pay SS up to 90K or whatever the current cap is, but they only get the same amount as anyone else would.
So why is Obama treating it like the wealthy are getting away with something when they are not?
Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors.
This is the “change” that the liberals are worshipping?
Nope. Just liberal politics as usual.
BlueJay, with your post above that reads;
” The minute a person is forced to sustain their survival and sustenance by punching a clock, pushing a broom, or answering a phone FOR someone else?
That person is no longer free.
It is the collective responsibility of society to defend the freedom of one individual from the exploitation of another. In an “every man for himself” society, there will be a few winners and MANY losers.”
I think you even lost a few of your fellow liberal/socialists with that one JR.
If you don’t like working for someone else you can go to work for yourself. But guy, if you want to eat you have to work, one way or another. No one, nor even society, owes you a living, where do you come up with this stuff. You are free to decide how you want to work to sustain yourself, but you are not free to decide somebody else or society will do that while you sit idle. As I’ve said before, to take another persons earnings for yourself, regardless of need, is theft.
‘EPA Rejects Permits for Dirty Refinery’
http://www.nrdc.org/media/2008/080606b.asp
“In a case that might impact oil refineries around the nation, plans by ConocoPhillips to expand its refinery in Roxana, IL were derailed today when an appeal board of the US Environmental Protection Agency upheld a challenge to the air permit required for the project. The decision sends ConocoPhillips and Illinois EPA, which had granted the permits, back to the drawing board. The legal challenge argued that harmful air pollution from the refinery’s flares, which relieve pressure in the refining process, was not being sufficiently controlled.
The following are comments from Ann Alexander, Senior Attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and lead litigator on the challenge. NRDC led the challenge representing American Bottom Conservancy, and Sierra Club was represented by the Environmental Integrity Project.
“This is a huge win for anyone living near a refinery, but especially the communities in the Metro East area and for St. Louis. Excessive emissions from this expanded refinery would have harmed the health of everyone in the region.”
“At a time of record oil profits, this decision ensures ConocoPhillips will invest in protections for the surrounding communities, rather than pushing the cost of pollution onto taxpayers in the form of respiratory illness, hospital bills, and lost time at work. We hope this will become the norm at all oil refineries in the United States.”
“California refineries have been held to a higher standard when it comes to cutting pollution from their flares. There is no reason that people in San Francisco or L.A. should have better protections than people elsewhere in the country. EPA is sending a message to oil refineries around the nation that it is time they clean up.”
“We are not asking for hugely complicated or costly measures. Holding flare emissions down just requires sound engineering and responsible operating practices.”
“This expansion project would not do anything to bring down gas prices right now. The ConocoPhillips refinery is expanding to process Canadian tar sands oil, which is profitable only if crude prices stay high. Relief from the pain at the pump is not going to happen until we begin to address our addiction to oil and focus on more efficient cars and clean renewable energy sources.” “
Sol, Boxlock- Trying to use reason with BlueJay is kind of like trying to drag a dead elephant through a swamp….you won’t get far.
I don’t like Obama’s stance on Social Security. I would prefer the gov’t return the money I paid into it and let me invest it. But it will be a cold day in Hell before that happens.
I haven’t heard McCain’s plan for Social Security. I somewhat liked Dubya’s plan on SS, but it will never happen. Like I said, cold day in hell. If it couldn’t work with Dubya at 63%, it sure won’t work now.
Nathaniel-
“The presidential candidate told senior citizens in Ohio that it is unfair for middle-class earners to pay the Social Security tax “on every dime they make,” while millionaires and billionaires pay it on only “a very small percentage of their income.””
His statement is absolutely true, disregarding the “unfair” label. The rest is just politics. As I said, I have no problem eliminating a ceiling on the income that is susceptible to ss taxes. I just think that you must also eliminate the ceiling on ss income.
So, perhaps a compromise can be reached. Oh by the way, I think only like 2% of wagearners make ov 250K per year
I just want to know what he meant. Did he mean that he should be able to hand out at home and rely on some government program to provide for him and his?
How many others support that view?
hang out at home. Talking about this stuff keeps bringing ‘hand out’ to mind.
“I would prefer the gov’t return the money I paid into it and let me invest it”
They don’t have it anymore – they spent it – it’s all gone.
Now what?
“How many others support that view?”
Zero, unless you are disabled.
God forbid someone be prosperous in this Country.
Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness.
It cannot be given to you.
Correct Clark. Hence – “Cold day in Hell”
Obama’s stance on SS is truly more BS right out of the dusty, worn out democrat play book.
Billionaires didn’t get to be billionaires by saving their payroll earnings!
The “rich”, the “wealthy” and other class envy buzz words have been part and parcel of the democrat mantra my whole life.
SS is a joke. The ‘rich’ don’t pay in to it. Obama’s attempt to be ‘fair’ with SS ignores the real problems with SS and hurts the very people that he tries to fool with his nonsense.
LR2
Posted June 13, 2008 at 12:52 pm | Permalink
Objectivist
Posted June 13, 2008 at 12:02 pm | Permalink
I’ve gone bankrupt several times trying to pursue my happiness. I finally got there and I will be damned if I am going to allow it to be taken from me.
Besides the few tactics I know to protect my assets, I fear that I don’t know enough and may have it taken from me.
regular – troll boy
you’ve never owned a business to be bankrupt from — other tashn being personally bankrupt of any honor, ethics or judgement CHORRRRRRRRRRTLEEEE
________________________________________________
I don’t understand?
The biggest issue with allowing privatization of Social Security is that it would have an immediate catastrophic effect on the deficit and debt.
Currently, all “excess” SS revenue is “transferred” to the general fund, financing the government.
With privatization, every dollar NOT contributed to SS would go directly to deficit spending.
It all sounds good, but we are way too far down the river to turn back now.
And it only took 4 years for the liberals to see JR for what he is….
He is treated like a stray cat by some here still though. Taken in, fed, and protected when they can.
Change? Tell me about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez5robAWmu4&eurl=http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/
Now what?
You allow the next generation to keep their money. Give them incentives to invest it wisely.
You defund the war in Iraq. Already the deal we have with Iraq to be there is set to expire. Let it. Bring them home and stop borrowing money.
You close the myriad bases we have over seas. You bring those troops home too.
You reorganize the military to be the defensive weapon they were designed to be.
You close the federal reserve. You take back the money that rightfully belongs to the American People.
You dry up the money sloshing around the world that the federal reserve decided to print out of thin air. Re-value the dollar. And you $hit can the fiat monetary system.
You defund the DOE. You defund DHS.
Shall I continue?
‘Canadian Tar Sands: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly’
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=30703
“In other words, just because new oil is likely to be more plentiful, processing costs will likely keep prices higher than in the past, and the toll on the environment won’t be fully known for years to decades.
Indeed, some effects are already visible as “Canada, which exports more oil to the U.S. than any other country, already is having trouble meeting its pledge to cut CO2 emissions largely because of its mushrooming heavy-oil production. By 2015, Canada’s Fort McMurray region, population 61,000, is expected to emit more greenhouse gases than Denmark, a country of 5.4 million people.” “
Your preaching to the choir Sol.
But too many Republicans can’t stand the idea of our military only being defensive and,
Too many democrats can’t stand the idea of privatized retirement.
“Shall I continue?”
Yes, please……………………….
Federal employees, including Congress-critters get the same SS retirement as the rest of us.
Fire every third Federal employee.
Close EVERY redundant Federal department including the Department of Redundancy Department.
Cut Congressional staffing by a third.
Means test Social Security recipients and raise the retirement age to Seventy.
Cut the non-cooperating intelligence units to two or three, rather than the 19 that we have now.
Cut the cuts and then cut them some more.
Do we need to “cut” spending?
Naw, no need………………
We need to SLASH spending, like a deranged Karl Childers run amok.
Means test Social Security recipients and raise the retirement age to Seventy.
With you on everything but the above. If you put in, you should be able to take out.
HLP posted June 13, 2008 at 6:47 am
“Since we still remember a few scientists in the 1970s who were announcing the arrival of a new ice age, I am hopeful that we will also be reminded of the catastrophic warming forecasts when they also fail.”
—————–
Those “few” were concerned that human-emitted aerosols would cause some future cooling — but more thought that AGW would happen.
‘The global cooling mole’ (as in the game, Whack-a-mole)
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/03/the-global-cooling-mole
“During the period we analyzed, climate science was very different from what you see today. There was far less integration among the various sub-disciplines that make up the enterprise. Remote sensing, integrated global data collection and modeling were all in their infancy. But our analysis nevertheless showed clear trends in the focus and conclusions the researchers were making. Between 1965 and 1979 we found (see table 1 for details):
* 7 articles predicting cooling
* 44 predicting warming
* 20 that were neutral
In other words, during the 1970s, when some would have you believe scientists were predicting a coming ice age, they were doing no such thing. The dominant view, even then, was that increasing levels of greenhouse gases were likely to dominate any changes we might see in climate on human time scales.”
———-
Ironically, Hank’s author, who wrote “Bad Science”, and John Christy made a mistake in their satellite data research.
‘Roy Spencer
Interfaith Science Advisor’
http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1397
Manson family killer Susan Atkins (a.k.a. “Sadie Mae Glutz”) is evidently terminal ill – and wishes an early reprieve so she can expire at home.
Atkins, along with Charles “Tex” Watson, stabbed to death the beautiful, nine-months-pregnant Sharon Tate in August 1969. As the Manson acolyte kindly shared during her grand jury hearing, the gentle and lovely actress begged repeatedly for the life of her baby. To which the Manson mongrel replied, “Look (b-word), I have no mercy for you. I don’t care if you’re going to have a baby. You’re going to die, and I don’t care a thing about it.”
I guess all that peace, love and pass the hash-pipe pipsqueakery only went so far in the sixties, didn’t it?
I have long followed this case and have long lamented Sharon’s untimely, senseless murder. Six years ago, Sharon’s only surviving sister and a Tate family confidante asked me to consider writing a book on the case. (Sharon’s sister had read one of my Internet postings and had evidently been moved by it.)
Owing to several precluding circumstances, the plans for the book were abandoned. But my anger over this barbaric crime has never abated.
I, personally, have no objections to “Sadie” being allowed to go home to croak on her last bong blast. However, if Deborah Tate has objections, the plans for release should not go forward, in my opinion.
Deborah and her family, as well as Sharon’s widower (Roman Polanski) and friends, were given no reprieve. When Doris Tate (Sharon’s mother) was terminally ill in 1992, her first-born did not arise from her grave because of this fact. Doris’s grief stayed with her the rest of her life. (Sharon’s other sister, Patti, died of breast cancer in 2000. Col. Paul Tate died several years later.)
In 2000, I was the unwitting beneficiary of several nude, gawd-awful-ugly pictures of a couple Manson devotees. I proferred sycophantic praise for making me realize my unknown sapphic side, and that was the extent of it.
For those left behind by this bestiality, however, the pain and loss were unspeakable. I don’t favor Sadie’s release unless Deborah does.
Agreed Clark, except congressional staffing. Cut it by at least half.
Agreed Clark, except congressional staffing. Cut it by at least half.
Sierra Club once again Inhibits Process for More Gasoline Available at Lower Costs
BP Whiting and its controversial air permit face a possible federal lawsuit and a new appeal citing a slew of alleged legal grievances, environmentalists said Monday.
A group of environmental groups and individuals filed an appeal of BP’s air permit Monday with the Indiana Office of Environmental Adjudication, the office that reviews Indiana Department of Environmental Management decisions.
The Natural Resources Defense Council filed the petition for administrative review on behalf of the Save the Dunes Council.
Meanwhile, the Natural Resources Defense Council said it plans to sue BP in federal court for Clean Air Act violations.
“We wish none of us had to spend our time this way, but the state has forced us all to continue to fight by failing to fix the serious legal problems we identified in our comments, or even respond meaningfully to them,” NRDC senior attorney Ann Alexander said in a statement.
The petition against BP’s air permit was filed by the Save the Dunes Council, represented by the Natural Resources Defense Council; Hoosier Chapter of the Sierra Club, represented by Washington DC-based Environmental Integrity Project; Hoosier Environmental Counsel, represented by Legal Environmental Aid Foundation with Environmental Law and Policy Center; and two individual petitioners. The first appeal of BP’s air permit came last week from the Calumet Project and the Global Community Monitor, who requested a stop to construction, and claimed the permit fails to protect nearby minority and poor residents.
In a written response Monday, BP said it was “confident that our permit will stand up to any challenge.”
http://www.nwi.com/articles/2008/05/20/news/top_news/doc6dcf74117513f0828625744e0082a207.txt
outlander posted June 13, 2008 at 8:42 am
“Mr. Carlin, senior economist with the Environmental Protection Agency…
…
The real problem, Mr. Carlin says, isn’t carbon, per se. “When the Earth is warming, it is receiving more radiation energy than it is losing, which is the basic cause of increasing global temperatures,” he says. ”
—————
“More radiation energy”? I thought that the sun was at a minumum?
Where is the “more radiation energy” coming from? Alien spacecraft hidden by cloaking devices, firing energy beams at Earth?
The definition of stupid.
http://www.khnl.com/global/story.asp?s=8485341
“LLTVET” spins the Libertarian fantasy with –
“…too many Republicans can’t stand the idea of our military only being defensive and,
Too many democrats can’t stand the idea of privatized retirement.”
As stated earlier, Libertarian ideas either sound good or might work. Never the twain shall meet.
A purely defensive military sounds good until you get to thinking about what exactly is “defensive?”
The bases in Germany and Japan are an anachronistic leftover from the cold war. American troops still in Korea might make some sense this week, but Korea’s gonna have to figure out their situation on its own over the long run.
And Kim Jung Il is probably the second-stupidest son-of-a-former-head-of-state in power in the world today.
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Your Libertarian ideal of a “defensive military” tends to ignore reality.
As for “privatized retirement,” we’ve tried that. It ended up in Poor Farms and Boys’ Town and orphanages and it simply wasn’t enough to meet the demand. And the “cottages” at Newport, Rhode Island. And child labor and over-the-counter heroin and company towns and….
Add in that the only proposals for what you call “privatized retirement” amounts to Republic Party lobbyists trying to socialize Wall Street.
“Might work.” But don’t count on it.
‘Refinery expansion in Wood River hits a snag’
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/BB3D30BB74E0FFED86257460000F12E9?OpenDocument
“Our intention is not to stop the expansion project, but to ensure that the refinery lives up to the standards of the Clean Air Act and its protections for the people who live and work nearby,” said Natural Resources Defense Council Attorney Ann Alexander. “ConocoPhillips simply ignored the requirement to find and use the best available pollution control technology.”
‘Canadian Tar Sands: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly’
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=30703
“In other words, just because new oil is likely to be more plentiful, processing costs will likely keep prices higher than in the past, and the toll on the environment won’t be fully known for years to decades.
I’ll leave with this. And y’all have a great weekend.
*************************************************
LLTVET
Posted June 13, 2008 at 11:27 am | Permalink
Monkeyhawk:
1. some of your ideas make sense
2. some of your ideas will work
none of them are both
assuming that the below libertarian ideas lack the qualities of number 1 or number 2 or both
(given your statement that none of them are both)
which is lacking in the following Libertarian ideas?
a. smaller government: does that lack 1 or 2?
(if you need further clarification, here goes. Does it not make sense? Or will it not work? Or does it lack both qualifications) Please explain how it lacks either 1 or 2 or both
b. Noninterventionism, not involved in the internal affairs of other countries. Does it lack 1 or 2 or both? please explain
c. The elimination of all business and farm subsidies. 1 or 2 or both please explain
Perhaps we can start with these 3
Sierra Club Sues Hawaii To Try to Kill the State’s Number one Industry, Tourism
The Hawaii Tourism Authority (HTA) awarded a three-year, $114 million contract to the nonprofit Hawaii Visitors and Convention Bureau to promote Hawaii throughout the world as a vacation and business destination. The following January, in an unprecedented move, the Sierra Club sued the HTA to halt the marketing contract until the state can assess the environmental impact of attracting more tourists to its already environmentally challenged beach areas.. The Hawaii Supreme Court heard arguments in November 2000.
According to the Hawaii chapter of the Sierra Club, increasing visitor arrivals will lead to overcrowded beaches, strained natural resources, clogged roadways and overburdened natural areas. In addition, the effect of adding millions of tourists to the islands’ population each year has an as yet unmeasured impact on the island’s limited water resources. More tourists means more roads, more traffic, more power plants, greater freshwater and electricity demands, increased development pressure, and more pollution.(EPA, Coast line 2002) Moreover, tourism growth brings the degradation of native Hawaiian’s cultural heritage values.
On the other hand, tourism industry will play a key role in Hawaii economy, specifically in terms of the international market ratio as mentioned before, the Japanese market would contribute to the economic growth. This case study investigate the correlation of the Japanese visitors and economical, socio-cultural impacts on Hawaii.
Hawaii’s tourism prosperity attribute to its marketing efforts. Like the Colorado’s case, if the Sierra Club’s lawsuits would prevent Hawaii from continue to promote its tourism industry to the international market, Hawaii could not keep the current economic position.
Regular says:
“I don’t disagree about nuclear and wind power, but those are separate issues from transportation.”
I disagree. IF you use nuclear and wind power, to offset use of oil for other energy use, you free up that oil for gasoline/otherfuels, for use in transportation.. So, IMO, they ARE connected… not separate!!
Monkey: Fear Fear Fear. You are afraid of North Korea and afraid of poor orphans (I am one of those said orphans)
Sol was good enough to paste my 11:27 post. Care to comment? Or are we just “middle aged, IT cranks who smoke weed and hate taxes”
Frivolous lawsuits Filed by Environmental Groups Like the Sierra Club are costing thousands
in jobs, bankrupting companies and empty needed funds from Government
“Frivolous lawsuits filed under the guise of environmentalism actually hurt the environment and hinder economic growth at the same time,” said House Resources Committee Chairman Richard W. Pombo (R-CA). “Because the environmental organizations that file these suits are entitled to recover taxpayer-funded attorneys’ fees and court awards – win or lose – environmental litigation has become big business in America. The American taxpayer should not foot the bill for this, nor should our economy have to suffer the dampening affects these suits cause. These and other frivolous actions prevent the creation of good jobs, which is why I was pleased to support this legislation today.”
Some environmental groups are largely unapologetic for this rampant, frivolous litigation. For example, Peter Morton of the Wilderness Society stated in a discussion on federal land use policy that, “If you bid on a lease on public land, you can expect (environmental litigation)” regardless of the merits. (Dow Jones, 01/20/2003)
The flood of environmental litigation became so great that it bankrupted the Fish and Wildlife Service’s fund for critical habitat in May of 2003, (U.S. Department of Interior). According to the Tulane University Environmental Law Journal, “The entire ESA budget runs the risk of being consumed by the bottomless pit of litigation driven listings and designations. It does not end there. As Yogi Berra might say, the bottomless pit is getting even deeper: as soon as the FWS makes a decision driven by a court imposed deadline, it is being sued on the merits of that decision.” (16 Tul. Envtl. L.J. 257)
These frivolous lawsuits drive up the cost of energy for the American taxpayer and threaten the very jobs America needs for a strong economy. “A recent National Association of Manufacturers study found that, on average, U.S. manufacturers spend more than 22 percent more on external, non-labor costs than do their competitors in other leading industrialized nations. Costs for health care, taxes, regulatory compliance, energy and out-of-control litigation are considerably higher in the U.S. than in countries where manufacturing is growing. The costs are barriers to competitive success.” (Grand Rapids Press, 09/11/2004)
The Capital Research Center also found that environmental fundraising groups have robbed the American taxpayers. For instance, a review of the Natural Resources Defense Council’s (NRDC) financial and court records reveal that “a large percentage of its cases against the government agencies eventually are thrown out of court.” These lawsuits drain the resources of the federal agencies and rob the taxpayer at the same time. Taxpayers bear the court costs when the government is sued and if the organization wins, the groups are rewarded financial judgments and court costs-all paid for by the taxpayer. And to add insult to injury, many of these organizations operate on taxpayer-funded grants to begin with.
http://www.nysorva.org/news/News_23September2004.shtml
correction: afraid for poor orphans
“FilmFan” considers the case of Manson family killer Susan Atkins (a.k.a. “Sadie Mae Glutz”) –
It won’t happen. But this would be an excellent opportunity to consider exactly what we’re attempting when we arrest and convict and incarcerate criminals.
Susan Atkins most certainly committed horrific crimes. But by any stretch of the imagination, does anyone think the poses a threat to society today?
From what I’ve seen of media coverage of the Manson girls, it seems to me they’ve got the message. Charlie himself, not so much.
First-degree murderers who have been released from prison have the lowest rate of recidivism of all paroled convicts. Most of ‘em simply killed someone and aren’t out to kill anyone.
Then there are those who would kill anyone. For sport. Or whatever.
A compassionate society would probably let Atkins go home to die. It’d be a small concession.
But America isn’t compassionate and she’ll die in a prison hospital and it won’t really matter to anyone in the long run.
(Help me out here. Was it Patricia Krenwinkle who turned state’s evidence against the Mansons and was granted immunity? Whomever, she’s been living under an assumed name ever since, and has not been killing people in the meantime. Just how does justice figure into that equation?)
TIM RUSSERT DIES FROM APPARENT HEART ATTACK
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06132008/news/nationalnews/tim_russert_dies_from_apparent_heart_att_115384.htm
Just heard on the news. Tim Russert died.
What a loss.
After all, it is not an income transfer program, but a retirement program.
Don’t kid yourself. It IS an income transfer program, NOT a retirement program. It works NOTHING like the usual retirement programs set up by businesses, pension funds, 401k’s. etc.
This misunderstanding is part of the problem.
Holy cow–Tim Russert has died, apparently of a heart attack.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/report_tim_russert_has_passed.php
Didn’t know that he had been press secretary for Gov. Mario Cuomo and chief of staff for Sen. Patrick Moynihan.
Only 58. Geez. While I was no fan of his sycophancy and posturing that masqueraded as “journalism,” that’s still way too young. Very sad.
‘New BP permit appeal filed, lawsuit possible’
http://www.nwi.com/articles/2008/05/20/news/top_news/doc6dcf74117513f0828625744e0082a207.txt
“We are extremely disappointed to have to take this step, but IDEM’s [Indiana Department of Environmental Management] unwillingness to address the environmental community’s concerns has forced our hand,” Save the Dunes Executive Director Tom Anderson said in a statement.
Highland resident Susan Eleuterio, one of two individual petitioners, expressed a desire for BP to “invest in environmentally sound practices which would create green jobs for residents of Northwest Indiana.”
She said IDEM did not address questions she posed at a public hearing, adding that the agency failed to “give citizens the time to develop a serious and rational proposal for making this project work for everyone, not just for the shareholders of BP.”
IDEM has defended the permit, responding to a separate appeal filed last week by saying it “firmly believes the final BP source modification air permit meets all applicable state and federal requirements.”
The new petition, which calls the permit “legally deficient,” raises several issues, including whether IDEM broke the law and ignored a U.S. Supreme Court decision by allowing BP to emit at least 50 percent more greenhouse gases.
The groups also question whether IDEM broke the law by failing to account for anticipated emissions from flaring and other sources, such as leaks of sulfur vapor.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pombo
“After multiple allegations of corruption, misuse of official resources, nepotism, questionable campaign contributions, and concerted opposition from national environmental groups, Pombo lost a reelection bid to to Democratic challenger Jerry McNerney on November 7, 2006.”
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_Pombo
“In February 2007, Pombo joined the public relations firm Pac/West Communications as a “senior partner.” The firm had previously supported Pombo’s efforts to weaken Endangered Species Act protections and holds a $3 million contract from the Alaska state government, “to coordinate a campaign for opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil exploration,” which Pombo has supported.”
“IDEM has defended the permit, responding to a separate appeal filed last week by saying it “firmly believes the final BP source modification air permit meets all applicable state and federal requirements.”
If it does, then they have followed the law. If it does not, then they should be fired at the least.
“”.
The petition against BP’s air permit was filed by the Save the Dunes Council, represented by the Natural Resources Defense Council; Hoosier Chapter of the Sierra Club, represented by Washington DC-based Environmental Integrity Project; Hoosier Environmental Counsel, represented by Legal Environmental Aid Foundation with Environmental Law and Policy Center; and two individual petitioners. The first appeal of BP’s air permit came last week from the Calumet Project and the Global Community Monitor, who requested a stop to construction, and claimed the permit fails to protect nearby minority and poor residents”
THe ONLY QUESTION THAT SHOULD MATTER: DOES IT MEET THE LAW AND THE STATE AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS? If it does, then the lawssuit should be thrown out of court, and those who brought it fined for frivilous lawsuit. If it does not, it should be halted. All other remedies belong in the legislative and executive branch, not the courts. Or perhaps,
Some environmental groups are largely unapologetic for this rampant, frivolous litigation. For example, Peter Morton of the Wilderness Society stated in a discussion on federal land use policy that, “If you bid on a lease on public land, you can expect (environmental litigation)” regardless of the merits. (Dow Jones, 01/20/2003)”
Is the real culprit.
“
I never was that big a Tim Russert fan, but I understand why some people were.
He did seem to understand the importance of “Meet the Press” as a cultural icon in America. But he was no Lawrence Spivak. ;-)
Back the days when the only Sunday morning choices were Marlin Perkins, Oral Roberts, “Davey and Goliath,” and Lawrence Spivak, I become a political junkie.
Russert seemed to respect the heritage of “Meet the Press.”
I think this news means his dad outlived him.
That’s sad.
Monkeyhawk,
Indeed; little Russert predeceased big Russert. Awful and shattering.
Though I don’t go back as far as Lawrence Spivak, I of course remember “Davey and Goliath.” Oh, for the days of Christian claymation.
Somebody said upthread >>>>
“Socialism has failed since the beginning of time.”
Ummm not true… Ask the Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, French, Canadians, British, and SO many others… They all seem to be doing pretty good all these centuries….
Why do so many on the Reich Wing intentionally use Socialism as a “cover” word for Communism?? Intentional SPIN…
Interesting to see you whine about “intentional spin” from the “Reich wing”!
Hypocritical nitwit.
“Chas” asks –
“Why do so many on the Reich Wing intentionally use Socialism….”
Because, as with other issues, they don’t know what they’re talking about.
“Socialism” has become the right wing’s generic term for anything that makes them cranky.
“Socialized medicine.”
“Socialist education.”
“The Socialist Designated Hitter Rule.”
We probably shouldn’t bother with most of ‘em. Let ‘em try to repair their Harleys and smoke their dope. They’ll go away.
Canada and the British are socialis?
Common definition:
Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the government.[1] This control may be either exercised through popular collectives such as workers’ councils in a voluntary arrangement or, more likely, on behalf of the people through the coercive power of the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history.”
Source: WIkipedia. See the rest of article
“Let ‘em try to repair their Harleys and smoke their dope.”
Whoa, whoa, whoa – there ain’t nuttin’ wrong with Harley’s and dope.
Perhaps what you meant was “Let ‘em try to repair their Hummers and drink their Scotch.”
Clark you could be right on that one… LOL
Whoa, whoa, whoa – there ain’t nuttin’ wrong with Harley’s and dope.
Perhaps what you meant was “Let ‘em try to repair their Hummers and drink their Scotch.”
—-
I drank Scotch once…AND got a hummer….Oh! you were talking about the big vehicle…
You will not be surprised Nathan to learn that your opinion of me means less than nothing.
Sol? As a libertarian, you would eliminate governments role in everything.
Now correct me if I’m wrong. But that would mean an end to ANY government regulations etc. as regards the employee/employer relationship. Yes?
Now you work for yourself. So do I. But most people don’t. If you remove all government involvement in the employee/employer relationship what you have is feudalism. He who has the gold makes the rules.
No thanks. Given the choice of feudalism or socialism any sane person chooses socialism.
Let government take the gold and make the rules. Government I have a voice in.
Hank… your only Trollish response is ‘nitwit’
I guess thats typical… but doesnt act like you….
We have this highly subjective “objectivist” posting daily — Drill Here, Drill Now, Etc…
We have regular mimicking the “objectivist” with Drill Here, Drill Now, Etc.
And we have this funky Ron Paul Revolution… that sounds more and more like a neo-nazi flaming group every day — Using nearly all of the Hitler talking points except for the blatantly anti-semitic rants of the Third Reich era… And with the constant barrage against the Fed. Reserve, can the “jew banker” rant be far behind??
What is this Blog coming to??
Chas (Satan’s mentally challenged younger brother) spins away….ZZZZZWWWWWWWEEEEEEE!
One of the truly genius concepts of our Founders, and the Constitution, is that they eliminated the cry for “Revolution” (ala Paul, et al) with the truly cutting edge concept of free and open elections every TWO YEARS to solve the problem of bad leadership, so that “Revolution” would no longer be necessary…
If we make our system WORK, we have no need for a Ron Paul “Revolution” or his “grass roots” style “take over” bid —
What a ruse to build his financial coffers… So sad… so sad…
Keep TROLLING ANTI…. seems like thats all you got anyway!! ROFL!!
“WSClark” admonishes me with –
“Whoa, whoa, whoa – there ain’t nuttin’ wrong with Harleys and dope.”
Yeah, you have a point.
The guy who set up my TV system had codes and cards to give me some obscure channels. I get most of the Cincinnati Reds games, but commercials for the pay-as-you-drive car dealers that are selling 2-year-old SUVs now for less than a hundred bucks a month. I think it’s a small-market Kentucky station.
It’s fun to watch those channels. If it weren’t for PayDay Loans, “Judge Judy” wouldn’t have any sponsors.
And, as another point: Nobody tries to repair their own Hummer. They have the butler deal with it. While drinking their Scotch, mind you.
ANTI —
I attack the truly satanic Nazi style take over tactics, and all you can FLAME with is this???
ANTI: (Satan’s mentally challenged younger brother)
Get a life… and a brain to go with it!!
Chas
Posted June 13, 2008 at 3:53 pm | Permalink
Keep TROLLING ANTI…. seems like thats all you got anyway!! ROFL!!
——
Ah, I “got” more, just not wasting it on a Baah-Foon like you!!! LOL, ROLF ect., ect. Stand The Floor Up and what not..
ROLF=ROFL
“I attack the truly satanic Nazi style take over tactics”
——
satanic Nazi style take over, uh huh, now what were you saying about flaming?
Giggity Giggity Goo! Check ya later Ch-Ch-Chas…
Monkey/Chas: Where are you guys getting this from? Where are you getting this Neo-Nazi crap from? Monkey, twice I asked you to show me how 3 main libertarian ideas are either bad ideas or won’t happen. Do you want them again?
1. Smaller Government (that includes the CIA)
2. Non-interventionism (not worrying about who is the minister of pencil sharpening in Madagasgar)
3. No more business or farm subsidies
I’m not going to contribute to Ron Paul.com. But this is the 3rd time you were asked. What is wrong with those 3 ideas? Your getting to be like Regular Monkey. It’s like pulling teeth with you.
It’s the TRUTHS about Bush that has worn the country down.
Despite Coulter’s claim that, “The sheer repetition of lies about Bush is wearing people down.”
I refuse to even listen to her for the possible amusement value.
Chas,
My father was pointing out how you called the right wing the “Reich Wing” in the same sentence you are talking about spin…
Hypocritical nitwit.
DavidB,
I suppose if you tell a lie long enough that even you begin to believe it yourself?
Do you, Nathan, ever become bored with following your Father around to explain and / or defend his posts? Does your Father need or want such defense? There aren’t any other tag team posters so it’s so obvious. Just wondering.
“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY.”
–Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
“I suppose if you tell a lie long enough that even you begin to believe it yourself?”
What lie? Bush has been a horrible president? The War on Iraq was a terrible decision? We are in a recession and headed down a long, dark path? Bush has the lowest sustained approval ratings in history?
What lie?
LLTVET — I cant speak for Monkey… but for me, it’s the overall tone and style of Ron Paul’s desired “Revolution” — the organization, the sales pitch, if you would, of identifying “enemies” of “freedom” —
It isnt ONE thing… but a cumulative effect… Hope that helps??
LLTVET — Another example…
A number of the anti-government Posse Commitatis groups identify the Federal Reserve with what they call the “jew bankers”… It can get pretty scary reading/listening to very much of their diatribe…
Some of those same red flags go up for me, when I read the Ron Paul stuff…
I don’t give a rat’s ass about Ron Paul. Screw Ron Paul. I want to know about libertarian ideals. Ron Paul is not a true libertarian. But he is kinda close.
Forget Ron Paul. I just asked about those three areas.
I guess I’m old school, I can choke down a good scotch but I prefer Jack Daniels!
Nathan:
Is it a lie that no weapons of mass destruction were found?
Is is a lie that Scott McClellan has spoken about the eternal campaign mode of Dubya’s administration?
Is it a lie that Valerie Plame’s identity was comprimised?
Is it a lie that the Iraq war was a complete Goat Screw for over 3 years?
Is it a lie that Hurrican Katrina was also a complete Goat screw?
Is it a lie that for 6 years with a GOP Congress and GOP President, that over 6 Trillion dollars in debt were spent?
Is it a lie that Iran is stronger now than they were in 2001?
Linda,
I thought you were ignoring me?
You have spent far more time following me around than I have my father.
But since you always say I never answer any questions here you go:
“Do you, Nathan, ever become bored with following your Father around to explain and / or defend his posts?”
I don’t follow my father around. He posts far less than I do and usually not in the same topics I am in.
No, I don’t get bored.
“Does your Father need or want such defense?”
I am pretty sure he doesn’t need it. Never asked him if he want’s it. I don’t really think I am defending him either, just pointing out the stupidity of what people say to him sometimes.
“There aren’t any other tag team posters so it’s so obvious. Just wondering.”
Are you serious? LOL The liberal goon squad of CapnAmerica, MonkeyHawk, Chas, WS Clark, Apophis, and JR routinely team up against people and but into conversations.
Yet here you are questioning my father and I?
Maker’s Mark for me!
Well, Nathan, now I won’t wonder. Your response did bring to mind a quote, “methinks thou dost protest too much.”
OK — LLTVET….
Let me give it a try….
1. Smaller Government… Great idea… However, I think we have become such a huge bureaucracy since the Constitution was framed, that the best we can hope for is to cut spending, cut staffings, maybe bring the mililtary HOME….
2. I have no real arguments with non-interventionism either… I think one of our great failures (dont know who is to blame) is that our diplomacy people have more or less turned into sin meisters for whoever is in the White House, instead of truly being emissaries for what our country stands for, and why we seek out neighbors in other lands… you know, education, exchange of cultures, and ideas… all of that really good stuff… instead, we have embassies that are basically just “spy stations” for the CIA, and other intelligence services…
3. Business/Farm subsidies…
That one is tough… IF we take away farm subsidies, we run a serious risk of corporate take overs of nearly ALL farming in the country… And, I am not sure what the ramifications would be if you take away “enterprise zones” for the development of business and industry… or tax incentive programs to move new industry or business into desired cities/locations… I sort of think a lot of study needs to be done on that one…
I am not sure if the Libertarians are well enough organized to do such studies, on any of these three issues… Sometimes, even though what Libertarians SAY might SOUND good… Sometimes I have a distinct feeling that it is a lot of knee jerk reaction to issues that have over grown some of the original 18th century vision of the Founders (note I said 18th century — pre technology — etc.)
=================================
One more on # 3 —- Plug in the power and wealth of multi-national corporations into that equation of non subsidy, and the problem is even greater, I fear…
==================================
So, LLTVET… I dont know if you will agree/disagree with any of this… But at least please know that I tried to address your concerns…. Ok??? Thanks!!
Linda,
You asked me a question and I answer.
You then say I protest too much?
“and but into conversations.”
Jeez, I thought this was an open Blog – explain the rules for “Butting In” please.
By the way, in that context, “BUTT” has two T’s.
Linda —- ROFL!!!
WS Clark,
I couldn’t care less about what you and the rest of the goon squad do.
Merely pointing out to Linda that my Father and I are obviously not the only ones who team up around here.
Fair enough Chas. You and I have usually agreed on this blog. I can agree to disagree on number 3.
Read Today’s opinion by Schofield. The whole thing: Hogwash.
1) Wedidn’t know! To use Schofield’s words,:pro-gun lawmakers “quietly changed the law.”
Balony.
The change was proposed, publicly. The change was was the response to the Kansas League of Municipalities “quietly” undercutting state law, in violation of state law. This paper even commented on it. There were, as always, hearings, votes, and passage in both houses. The governor vetoed it, and it was overridden, IIRC. And NOW you say it was “secret,” that you didn’t know. BS. That’s just a bald lie, Randy.
2) Alcohol and drugs don’t mix. No argument there. But if this was a problem, where oh where are the dozens of incidents of CCH holders creating problems getting drunk in bars and shooting up the place? Oh, there aren’t?!?! Imagine that!!!
Once again – EVERY dire prediction of horrid consequences should CCH become legal has been wrong. EVERY ONE. When will you guys ever learn.
3)
Sorry for the interruption. I must have hit the wrong button . . .
3)
Nathan: I am not teaming up against you. I actually agree with you some on the economic issues. I just don’t agree with you about this President and obviously about the role of religion in our society.
Come on Linda!
“There aren’t any other tag team posters so it’s so obvious. Just wondering.”
You haven’t been paying attention! Either that or you have selective outrage.
There is no bigger tag team posters than some of the libs here!
Pick on junior and steven jumps in. They’ve become so close lately it’s hard to figure out figure out which one is on top.
And you seem to be ready to side with anyone when it comes to bashing my son. Don’t you ever get bored?
“2) Alcohol and drugs don’t mix.
Shoulda kept guns out of church too. Praise god and pass the ammunition sorta sends chills down my spine.
religion and guns dont mix either
Again. I’m a slow learner. Oh well . . .
3) The unspoken assumption is that places are “safer” where the “gunbuster” is posted. In fact, of course, there is NO evidence that is true, and common sense tells one that we may be less safe in places which are posted. After all, the sign simply deters only those who are no threat anyway, and are no deterrrent to those who would do harm. Evidence? Just where are the mass shootings taking place? In the “no gun” zones. Duh.
And the signs WILL get more guns stolen, as consciencious owners remove their weapons and leave them in cars, where they are less secure.
4) And perhaps most telling:
“For the record, I am not anti-gun. I’m comfortable around guns. I grew up with guns. I own several guns. I hunt with guns. I support gun ownership.”
Balony.
You may own guns. You may hunt. But your writing on this issue, the mindless parroting of the nonsense of the hoplophobes, the bleating about a Tiahrt amendment that Bloomburg lies about and you swallow hook, line, and sinker, and now this mindless pablum; your actions speak far louder than words.
You are a hoplophobe. And there’s no rationality to it.
Don’t piss on my shoes and tell me it’s raining. You are, indeed, anti-gun.
The nation’s Roman Catholic bishops issued a document Friday warning against the moral dangers of embryonic stem cell research, saying it treats human beings as commodities and reduces procreation to a manufacturing process. In response to grossly over-hyped claims of possible cures eventually, someday, in the far distant future, coming from ESCR, the bishops said that “no commitment to a hoped-for ‘greater good’ can erase or diminish the wrong of directly taking innocent human lives here and now.”
“An initial decision to destroy so-called ’spare’ embryos for this research leads to far broader abuses, including human cloning and new risks to women,” said Archbishop Joseph Naumann from Kansas City, KS, and part of the bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities.
There are no spare human beings.
There are no moral objections to the hugely successful medical research using ethically obtained adult stem cells and umbilical cord blood, however, regularly producing new cures and treatments every year using ethical procedures.
Shoulda kept guns out of church too. Praise god and pass the ammunition sorta sends chills down my spine.
religion and guns dont mix either
Shouldn’t that be up to the church?
Later folks, enjoy the weekend.
One more shameless plug. Read it if you have time.
BECOME A MENTOR
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/story/433536.html
http://www.kansasmentors.org
Hey GM,
I read his little editorial, anti-gun rant too.
It makes me question his journalistic competance if he was actually surprised by the changes to CCW. Makes you wonder how ignorant he must be about other legislative issues!
I am totally stunned (Not really) that anybody… ANYBODY… would support ANYbody bringing a concealed weapon into a house of Worship!! I guess that is how you tell the truly mentally demented!!
LLTVET — Mentors — GREAT program!!
Truth be known, “LLTVET” –
I actually wrote a lengthy response to your original questions but hit a wrong key along the way and it was lost.
I figured, “Screw it. It’s only WE Blog” and decided to not attempt to recreate my original response.
(It was so brilliant, as I recall, to have made you whimper. Alas it is lost.)
So here’s the short version of my responses to your questions:
RE:
1. Smaller Government (that includes the CIA)
Yeah. That’d be nice. But this is a big country. 350 millions of us. Government isn’t gonna get smaller.
As I stated in my post that prompted these questions, the problem with Libertarians is that their ideas sometimes make sense, and their ideas never will work.
Two-for-two on your first Libertarian fantasy.
2. Non-interventionism (not worrying about who is the minister of pencil sharpening in Madagasgar)
Good idea. But how does it work?
No, I don’t think we need all those military bases in Germany and Japan and Iraq…. But the more I read of Dwight Eisenhower’s memoirs, I realize that the most important aspect of military power is logistics. On one level, it makes no sense whatsoever for the U.S. to maintain an airbase on a tiny little island in the Indian Ocean. But we’re paying for personnel and support for that pathetic little out-of-the-way base and there’s probably a rational justification for such “intervention.”
No intervention? Not a bad idea, maybe. But it ain’t gonna work in the real world.
3. No more business or farm subsidies
Once again: not a bad idea but a really bad policy.
Business (and agriculture is a business, too) subsidies piss me off.
Still, I think there might be some rationale for some of those subsidies, tariffs, whatever…
“No Subsidies” is a bad idea; bad policy. Even though the programs have been abused.
Thing is, and I’ve tried to make it clear to Libertarians in previous posts, you guys have no political clout on any level.
The Libertarian Party has been spewing its naive optimism for forty years and still makes no difference in actual elections.
Libertarians are masturbatory philosophists.
Reality gets in your way.
Chas
1) How would you know? How does doing so interrupt the place?
2) I’m totally stunned, Chas, that anyone would let you lead a house of worship.
What kind of IGNORANT person would WANT to take a concealed weapon into a Church?? Huh??
Is it some kind of paranoia?? Do bullets stop demons??? Just what the hell is your PROBLEM, Mr. Prosecutor??? I have THIRTY years doing what I do… My credentials are impeccable!!
What give YOU the right to sit there at your crappy keyboard and DIS me nearly every time you post something???
Why cant you at least attempt to say something of SUBSTANCE instead of your vitriolic DRIVEL that we all know and hate??
By the way, I have NO problem when an on duty uniformed Law Enforcement Officer attends a service… and they have their weapon… As stated, they are ON DUTY…. and their side arm is part of their uniform…
But Concealed??? Just plain CRAZY!!!
Booker’s.
But be liberal with the branch, it’s cask strength and runs 63-64% ABV.
But damn that Booker Noe knows what he’s a-doin’!
Chas.,
You never cease to amaze me! Talk about paranoia! Why would anybody mind if a licensed CCW holder took their gun anywhere?
You are a self described man of the cloth, do you recall the last miracle of Christ before he was taken into custody?
Hank smugly asks >>>>
“You are a self described man of the cloth, do you recall the last miracle of Christ before he was taken into custody?”
What the HELL does that have to do with some IDIOT bringing a firearm into a worship service?? Have you totally got your manhood wrapped up in your favorite GUN Hank???
Chas,
Hank said that a gun is just a tool.
HLP Posted June 11, 2008 at 7:24 pm
“I don’t really love guns, they’re just a tool, kinda like a hammer.”
——-
So I guess Hank carries a hammer in case he needs to hammer something, and a gun in case he needs to shoot someone.
Well Chas,
Never really needed to pound a nail in an emergency. But you’re right. The reason I carry a gun is just in case I need to kill someone.
Another hint, my Biblically challenged friend:
Who was Malthus?
Besides Chas., My logic challenged friend, we’re not talking about “. . . some IDIOT bringing a firearm into a worship service??” We’re talking about the right of a fellow worshiper; someone that is known and respected by the congregation; someone that has taken the time to qualify for and receive a CCH license to go to church armed.
The purpose of which is to protect his family, his person and fellow worshipers from “. . . some IDIOT bringing a firearm into a worship service. . .” that would do harm.
nitwit
I do believe he desperately hopes for the chance that someday he will get the chance to kill someone.
That’s sick.
Note: He does not say “I may need to defend myself.” He cavalierly says he may have to kill someone. Elsewhere he has illustrated just how callously and easily he could carry that out.
There is no more reflection in it than “I may need to buy stamps”.
I think any further meetups where this person is present will be lonely affairs.
Well junior, my little buddy,
You obviously are the sick individual. You must first propose a ridiculous scenario then attempt to defame me with the sick product of your imagination.
If you truly “. . .do believe he desperately hopes for the chance that someday he will get the chance to kill someone.” Then you are the sick one, my disgusting little friend.
I can pretty much “defend myself” without a gun. Thankfully I don’t have to answer to nitwits like you and Chas. in any situation that I might fear for my life.
The sting in any rebuke is the truth.
Benjamin Franklin
I’ve constructed no scenario. YOU did. Elsewhere you constructed a scene where you shoot another human being, call the police, and are home in time for dinner.
No doubt after dinner, you would rush for the keyboard to regale us with a proudly cold account of the event.
“The reason I carry a gun is just in case I need to kill someone.”
I don’t know how you could put it any plainer.
Actually I am mistaken.
Someone else (not me) constructed the scenario now that I think about it. You just acted your carefree way through it.
The multi-nic’d Regular posted June 12, 2008 at 7:08 pm
blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/06/open-thread-612/#comment-367797
I never said btw, I endorsed E.G. Beck, I just posted the article.
———-
‘Regular’ defended Beck.
Beck’s opinion is contrary to the one held by all credible climate scientists — global CO2 can only be accurately measured at remote sites, where it is well-mixed.
StillJM Posted December 30, 2006 at 10:30 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/12/could_kansas_pr/#comment-100783
“I don’t know who E G Beck is exactly. These papers are not exactly peer-reviewed to my knowledge, but make good fodder for blog discussions. heh
Anyway a couple of dissenting scientists who ‘appear’ to have some solid data backing their claims.
——–
cosmos Posted December 31, 2006 at 12:39 pm
No, they’re stinking garbage, and a waste of bandwidth. You might want to read, and study the graph at, http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/10/more_nonsense_about_co2.php
———
StillJM Posted December 31, 2006 at 3:02 pm
“I didn’t see anything there other than commentary and a graph. It was just another opinion as was E.G. Beck.
…
I wouldn’t call the data garbage, it’s just hard to independently confirmed from where I sit.”
There would seem to be something mentally lacking in an individual who felt the need to carry a concealed weapon to church, “because somebody might want to attack worshippers”
Malthus isnt even relevant to this discussion!!
Jesus and his disciples were in a public place when Jesus was arrested… not in a house of worship… IF I am not mistaken, Malthus was a part of the High Priests constabulary… or Temple Police…
Now what kind of connection did you want to make there, Hank?? Jesus healed the Cop who came to arrest him, because one of his Disciples cut off his ear…
Oh right, most relevant to CC… Sure…
NITWIT!!
Well, lookee here all. cosmos digs up posts from two years ago for what purpose? To make friends and influence enemies?
We all know how kind and gentle cosmos is and the fact that he is in league with the Sierra Club, who would sell the soul of their grandmother so they could get some ‘green’ award.
Pathetic cosmos. And you know what? Those posts are just as I said they were two years ago, opinions of one guy. I posted them and since then, you keep re-posting them over and over and attributed the posts like if I had some sort of religious belief in them. As everyone can see, I just posted them for information.
The more you write cosmos, the more you sound like the una-bomber, Theordore Kascynski. You stalk people, you are anti-technology and use distorted messages while twisting the words of others.
Your credibility just plunged to below zero cosmos.
“Your credibility just plunged to below zero cosmos.”
And this is coming from the Blog’s most credible poster.
/sarcasm/
Well, BJ,
In this particular thread my post about killing someone was a direct response to the nitwit Chas.
When you start down the path to get a CCH license,
sooner or later it dawns on you that what you are doing is getting a license to carry a deadly weapon.
You then learn that the only tie or reason to pull your gun is if you fear for the personal safety or life of you or someone else. It’s a pretty sobering thought. Of all the people that I know that have their CCH license, all of them take it as a very serious responsibility.
Guns, especially handguns, are designed to kill people. If you carry one, it’s not to scare people, it’s not to feel big and important, it is a weapon to use only if you feel your life is threatened. Never pull it unless you intend to use it.
I’ve never said that I would carry a gun in church. I’ve never said that I hope for to someday ‘get the chance’ to kill someone.
That’s all a product of your and Chas’ sick, twisted little minds.
I’ve always been pretty straight forward and reasonable about concealed carry. You’re the sick twisted one.
nitwit
Clearly, I have hit a nerve.
I’m glad I didn’t do it in person.
Luke 22 —
50 ¶ And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and ahealed him.
52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
=============================================
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/the-heroine-of-the-colorado-springs-church-shooting/
Of course it hasn’t been all that long since the Colorado church shooting, ended by a heroic woman volunteer security guard who happened to be armed.
Guns at church? In this case it equals lives saved.
So HLP carries a gun to kill someone.
Why does that surprise anyone?
Again, this is why Christians have such a bad reputation these days.
BlueJay
Posted June 13, 2008 at 8:29 pm | Permalink
“I’m glad I didn’t do it in person.”
And why is that, junior? You need to read my last post again. It was a calm and reasonable response to your sick implications.
You have absolutely nothing to fear from me. You are no more than a sad, twisted, unhappy little man. I consider you no threat to me or mine, I think you’re to cowardly to do much more than call names from the security of your mommy’s house while you hide behind your nic.
Well, congratulations Chas., you might be starting to get the point.
Anyone that has studied the scriptures and has read Josephus understands that travelers in Biblical times more often than not went about armed.
The Jews, even though they were a conquered nation were still allowed to be armed. Most men carried a sword or at a minimum a dagger.
It would appear that the Disciples of Christ were no different. Peter pulled his sword and cut off the ear of Malthus. He was armed. Malthus was threatening Jesus and Peter defended him.
How does that relate to being armed in church? Well, if Disciples can go about armed in the presence of their Lord, why should you be afraid of a Christian carrying concealed in a church?
No my friend the problem is in your mind. It’s a sickness you might have caught from junior.
I don’t think anyone said they were “afraid of a Christian carrying concealed in a church”.
Must have been in YOUR mind.
Jesus didnt approve, did he?? LOL No Hank, YOU dont get it, apparently… Not to mention that the Mt. of Olives was more like the equivalent of a KOA campground… NOT a worship center… The kool aid is flowing freely tonite!!
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ posted June 12, 2008 at 7:08 pm
“I never said btw, I endorsed E.G. Beck, I just posted the article.”
———–
1) Then why did you say that you were inclined to believe Beck?
2) Why did you (incorrectly) claim that global CO2 was above 400 ppm in the 1940’s, and earlier?
3) Who is your source of global CO2 above 400 ppm in the 1940’s, and earlier, if it wasn’t Beck and/or Jaworowski?
4) Why did you (incorrectly) suggest that fires during WWII would cause global CO2 to rise that high?
cosmos posted January 9, 2007 at 2:33 pm
blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/01/never_mind_that/#comment-123627
JM,
Okay, I understand — you prefer to believe people like Beck, instead of all the highly credentialed scientists at IPCC, NOAA, NASA, et al.
—–
JM Posted January 9, 2007 at 3:12 pm | Permalink
“Cosmos,
Yes I am incline to believe scientist like Beck who are an expert in their field (PaleoClimatology.)”
——
Another thread, later date,
Republican posted April 16, 2007 at 12:01 pm
blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/is_there_a_carb/#comment-253676
“By the way, the Consensus Scientists don’t use the early Flask Data available because it is inconvenient. The CO2 levels have not reached 400 ppm yet, but in the 1940s it was above 400ppm with lower temperatures. And before Cosmos or anyone says that the data is incorrect. The Consensus Scientists only examined 10 percent of the data and gave it a less than 1 percent on average inaccuracy rate.
That means by looking at the Flask Data prior to 1970, there were 13 occasions were CO2 was as high or higher than it is today with lower temperatures.”
—————-
cosmos Posted April 16, 2007 at 12:40 pm
“Dr. Huie,
Republican (like JM) believes the brain-dead, totally idiotic nonsense from E.G. Beck and/or Jaworowski.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/10/more_nonsense_about_co2.php
More details, http://timlambert.org/2005/01/hissink3/
“The measurements for 1865, for example, vary from 290 to 550 parts per million. It just isn’t possible for the CO2 concentration to change by that much in one year—the difference corresponds to about 500 billion tons of carbon which is about the same amount of carbon in all plants in the entire world.”
That page explains the procedure used to discard the inaccurate measurements.”
—————
Republican Posted April 16, 2007 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
“It just isn’t possible for the CO2 concentration to change by that much in one year—the difference corresponds to about 500 billion tons of carbon which is about the same amount of carbon in all plants in the entire world.”Posted by: cosmos | April 16, 2007 at 12:40 PM
You mean like CO2 from Volcanoes or from the many burning fires during WWII? Or from huge fires like that in Yellowstone or the Amazonian Forest?
…
And Mr. Conspiracy Cosmos, I’m not this guy JM. But I forgot, you like conspiracies don’t you?”
Republican Posted April 16, 2007 ?????
—-
Cosmos, you must be kidding…..OCD?
Regular
Posted June 13, 2008 at 1:52 am | Permalink
“cosmos love of the Sierra Club means that he wants the United States to fail economically, even if it means putting tens of thousands of people of work.
Gosh! If “putting tens of thousands of people (out) of work” is all it takes for the United States to fail economically, then the CONs and Bush have easily achieved that goal.
Maybe Bush is a unabomber accomplice as well.
He certainly doesn’t believe in science or technology and he has singlehandedly bankrupted America.
By God Reguliar you are right for once! Bush is a criminal on par with the unabomber!
Well, good evening KansasNative,
Maybe you should butt into a thread that isn’t quite as complicated as this discussion. You obviously have nothing to add and you seem to be having difficulty in keeping up.
You seem confused in your lies Hank.
You have variously said that I live with my mother, (I don’t) and that my mother is paying my mortgage. (I don’t have a mortgage.)
You might want to settle on one lie.
I can only use against you that which you bring here. In this, I differ from you and your son. Your record here is in inventing your own version of the truth about me based on nothing more than your own assumptions and lies. Sometimes you have apologized after the fact. Other times not.
You said what you said.
“The reason I carry a gun is just in case I need to kill someone.”
Those are your words and I did no more than judge you by them. If your words are careless, or posted in heat, it is your responsibility to explain yourself. Not launch into a defensive rant and attack on me.
Please HLP, show me where someone said they were afraid.
I’ve read the posts and it’s not there.
YOU made that up in YOUR head.
It’s okay, I’m going to blast the Sierra Club with every piece of dirt I can find on them. ;)
They are the most lititigious organization in the U.S. and what is wrong with today’s society.
cosmos will try and stop with 2 year old posts from me, but it won’t work.
The Sierra Club bankrupts companies, they drain funds from the State and Federal Governments, they prevent ANY kind of project from going forward and generally cause a danger to health and safety to the citizens of the United States.
The Sierra Club is a menace to society and needs to be exterminated.
HLP posts,
“The Jews, even though they were a conquered nation were still allowed to be armed. Most men carried a sword or at a minimum a dagger.
It would appear that the Disciples of Christ were no different. Peter pulled his sword and cut off the ear of Malthus. He was armed. Malthus was threatening Jesus and Peter defended him.
How does that relate to being armed in church? Well, if Disciples can go about armed in the presence of their Lord, why should you be afraid of a Christian carrying concealed in a church?”
HLP, thank you for that post!
I have always ‘felt’, no ‘known’, there was no spiritual conflict in being armed to defend myself and my family, yet I had never really thought of what you point out above.
Jesus disciples were armed! It has always seemed to me to be a failure of responsibility not to be prepared to defend my family if the occasion ever presented itself, or simply myself as the loss would create hardship on those I leave. I don’t ‘carry’ in church, or even in public all the time, but it’s not far away if not on me, and as a result has become not much more an inconvenience than carrying a wallet or a watch.
A British hospital has been absolved in the botched, incomplete RU-486 abortion death of Manon Jones, 18, in 2005, because the hospital was busy, excusing their delay in administering a complete blood transfusion until too late.
Manon Jones, a Christian who sought emergency medical treatment after the botched abortion, did not want to commit the abortion, but was pressured into the killing because her Muslim boyfriend’s family would be offended by the illegitimate birth.
Here come the sock puppets!
“The Sierra Club is a menace to society and needs to be exterminated.”
Issue a fatwa, declare a jihad then round up your conservative buddies hold a bake sale to raise money for the cause. Contact the good people @ 1330 am get them involved. Contact rush sean micheal and the rest of the heavies just to show we don’t f@#k in Wichita , Kansas. That ought bring that damn Sierra Club to it’s knees.
opps should be F@#k around in Wichita, Ks.
Wayyyy tooo funny, Annie!! :-D
Shoot! I’ve been throwing away those join up letters the Sierra Club sends me.
Now I’ll join and send ‘em a few thousand $$$ just to spite Reguliar!
I’m sure they’ll need the help with Reguliar throwing dirt clods at ‘em.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘,
Knock yourself out.
Prove to everyone that you, with your moldy, old IH engineering degree, are 100% clueless about peer-reviewed climate science — by attacking the Sierra Club.
I’m NOT a member of the Sierra Club.
And the multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ STILL has not posted his links supporting his false claim that the Sierra Club “screwed” the New Orleans levees.
But that’s not unusual, since ‘Regular’ is a liar.
Amidst all the childish nonsense about stalking, who is a nitwit, etc, comes a serious question worthy of dicussion.
LLVT, I simulatenously admire libertarians (small l) for their idealism while at the same time I am extremely alarmed by what I see as their simplistic thinking. When I was young, I flirted with libertarianism. But, it wasn’t long before I saw the flaws in their thinking. Unlike Monkeyhawk, I think libertarianism (small l) is a very influential force in this country, particularly among males (particularly, it must be said, young upper middle class and wealthy males). Libertarianism deserves to be addressed, including having its considerable flaws pointed out.
Your list:
1. Smaller Government (that includes the CIA)
Smaller is not always better. I can think of at least 5 areas where the “big” federal government is better positioned to address an area than “small” government. These areas include 1) Defense 2) Transportation infrastructure 3) Environmental regulation 4) Standards for services to people with disabilities/mental health issues and 5) Protection of constitutional rights. Most libertarians tend to agree with the first area, even if they argue for cutbacks in the international arena, including military presences. Transportation infrastructure, however, is done at all levels of government. However, the interstate system done by the national government created a consistently high standard of highways across a large nation. Certainly, it does not make sense for transportaion safety to be regulated by 50 state agencies or hundreds of smaller local agencies. Environmental regulation is one of the areas where a number of libertarians really demonstrate their cognitive dissonances. They tend to pretend that the problems don’t exist (note, the misuse of the skeptic movement by libertarians to ignore certain environmental issues, that cross state and indeed international borders. The water issues between states (such as the one between Kansas and Colorado) might indeed be better addressed by federal oversight. The next area is one that I have all too much professional experience in. While there have been some messes caused by “one size fits all federal regulations”, they pale in comparison to the regulatory and bureaucratic messes that has come from states creating their own patchwork of HCBS regulations. Which is a key point, libertarians tend to rail against inefficient “big government” bureaucracies, while ignoring the fact that far greater bureaucratic messes can be created by substituting many smaller bureaucracies for one big one. The last area is one that should be obvious, and some libertarians do acknowledge it, but I have found a surprising number of them who do the same thing that they do with environmental issues issues, pretend they don’t exist or even, more shockingly express hostility to the very concept. This is the obvious historical lesson that some of the worst instances of tyranny and overreaching by governments at the expense of individual citizens came from local and state governments, and they were addressed by citizens appealing to the federal government, particularly the judicial and executive branches. Small democratic governments are much more vulnerable to tyrranies of the minority than large democratic governments, particularly ones where rights for individual citizens are underwritten by a constitution. The history of civil rights movements provides very strong lessons in this concept.
2. Non-interventionism (not worrying about who is the minister of pencil sharpening in Madagasgar)
This presupposes that we as a country can be and are self sufficient. We are not, we have not been for some time. At one time, when this was a primary agrarian country and a fledgling industrial power, this was the case, but not now. Now we have an economy that is largely propped up by being the primary retail customer to the world’s largest communist country. Our own industry and the industry of most of the “developed” world comes from resources found in many, many countries. Economic isolationism, and also social isolationism, is a recipe for disaster. For example, environmental issues do not respect international borders either.
3. No more business or farm subsidies
I may like this idea in principle, but once again, some products and businesses need to be subsidized in order to be competetive. Other countries subsidize their businesses and agriculture more than we do, and they have cut into the markets greatly by doing so. I think there are plenty of horrific examples of bad subsidies (particularly in agriculture), but I think chaning how such businesses are subsidized is at least as much of the solution, and in some cases more, than abandoning subsidies altogether.
The socially liberal, fiscally conservative viewpoint I think tends to appeal to people who see themselves as self sufficient and not needing a mommy government for handouts or to regulate their behavior. What such people fail to see, at times I believe, is the infrastructure that has underlied their success and their opportunity for success (not just physical, but legal and social). Such infrastructure is often due to big “gummit” and not to market forces. The “market” is an aggregate of entities, individual and corporate, pursuing their interests, or importantly, what seems to be their interests. Truly “free” markets exist in third world lawless hellholes where bandits steal from others to sell goods, and gouge and enslave those who have no protection. True freedom for the most individuals does depend upon a government that allows people to make their own decisions, but it also depends on strong legal protections that create a safe environment for pursuing those interests. Libertarians are like the canary in the coal mine. They are often the first to see examples of bad government. But, the other side of the coin is that they tend to overlook examples of good government, and particularly those things done better by consolidated, larger governments supported by, and indeed subject to, larger populations of people.
“The Sierra Club is a menace to society and needs to be exterminated.”
Trolling for comments from cosmos and others with over the top rhetoric.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Good night HLP…glad to help set you straight. Nobody cares if you carry a gun in or out of church much less being scared of it.
If you NEED people to be scared, then see a shrink ’cause you’ve got a problem.
I heard the Sierra Club funded bin laden, embryotic stem cell research, safe sex, gay marriage, eatable undies last but certainly not least the homosexual agenda. Not to mention they don’t allow concealed carry at their secret destroy America meetings
And since the sock puppets are out again tonite, Friday the 13th, I will call it a nite…
Good night; Good luck; God bless –
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
Blessings on the Environment!!
So mote it be!!
LOL!
I seem to have hit a nerve! To bad it wasn’t in person! I would have enjoyed seeing the look on your face!
No, J R, I never said your mother was paying your mortgage, I asked if she still was. I also have asked on various occasions if you still lived with your mommy, do you?
Generally I’ll bring it up after you say I’m a “kept man”. I would like to know what your definition of a ‘kept man’ is, and how exactly I fit into that definition.
Thank God she keeps me! I do everything in my power to insure that I get to keep sleeping in the big house!
You are a twisted, sick, envious little man.
Of course I carry a gun to kill people. That’s the reality of carrying a pistol! In past threads I’ve taken the time to explain, in detail the circumstances that would lead me to defend myself with a gun. Any person that doesn’t think he could kill to defend his life or the life of his family shouldn’t ever carry a gun.
You and others can twist my words around anyway you want to defame and insult me, but the reality is the sickness is in your mind, not mine.
I sincerely hope you never find you and yours in a situation where you need a gun to defend yourself. I hope that no harm ever comes to you or your mother or your son that you could have prevented by merely taking the time and responsibility to be legally armed like I and thousands of others in this state have done.
ksagnostic,
A more likely possibility is that ‘Regular’ is too dumb to realize that high-priced oil sources will not lower high oil prices.
If oil prices drop, the expensive tar sands wont be profitable, and the expensive refinery expansions will be wasted investments.
‘Canadian Tar Sands: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly’
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=30703
“In other words, just because new oil is likely to be more plentiful, processing costs will likely keep prices higher than in the past, and the toll on the environment won’t be fully known for years to decades.”
Hey Boxlock,
I initially applied for my CCH just so I’d be legal when I carried my pistol in my vehicle. That and when my boy was in Iraq, I realized what a friend he had become to me over the years and I missed him. I promised myself that I’d try to do more things with him when he returned. When he got home safe, getting a CCH license was something we could do together.
He’s an armorer in the Marine Corps and he is qualified as a range director and a marksmanship instructor. Doing ‘gun stuff’ with him is a natural way to father-son bond.
Once you get your CCH you realize that it comes with an awesome responsibility. One I don’t take lightly. Unlike what J R implies, I hope I never have to use it. You start doing things to ensure that you are less confrontational. That being said, I find I do carry it more, in fact I carry it most of the time. I take classes to improve my proficiency.
Of course there is no conflict in being a Christian and being armed. If it wasn’t for Christians, armed and willing to fight and die for their country and family we’d all be living in a tent somewhere under Sharia law!
Embarrassing.
“I never said your mother was paying your mortgage. I asked if she still was”.
What does that even mean? You never said what you said until you said it?
I do not live with my mother. It is your lie. The burden of proof is on you.
I did not bring up “kept man” here. Clearly, this hits a nerve with you. Since YOU brought it up?
You ask me to define “kept man” and then plead eagerly guilty?
And then you call me names.
The rest of your post descends into a defensive rant.
I had no idea it was so easy to get at you.
But then it only proves I was right all along. You are nothing more than what you have. All your beliefs, all that you have. All you ARE is keeping it.
And some poor slob like me can melt you down.
I think I’ll declare victory and spare you further humiliation.
BlueJay, The Black Knight (M.P.-Holy Grail).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno
Paaa-thetic.
What ever it takes to get you through the night, little man!
Good night!
Nathaniel
Posted June 13, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink
Steven,
I was under the impression that today was the liberal “we want to get along day.”
I see by your post, that you were not part of their plans to demonstrate the civility they so wish to have here.
**********
Gosh darn it, Nathan, I thought this was your day to be a battle-hardened Marine and not the sensitive flower, whose feelings are so easily bruised! You must give us people not involved in your psychotheapry, more warning, okay?
As an aside, I think it is terribly interesting that civility is something owed to Nathan and his father, but not to others, so much.
Profound hypocrites, they are, I say…
Please note this from Hank the deranged man who needs help from the V.A.:
“Pick on junior and steven jumps in. They’ve become so close lately it’s hard to figure out figure out which one is on top.”
So very civil… I know a shrink at the V.A. who might be able to help you Hank. She will cuss me forever, I am sure.
Nathan the blog-trog.
trog is short of trogldyte which means a dweller in caves, or a person who defends out-dated ideas or thinking processes. The latter fitting Nathan Price to a “T”.
blog-trog – being that person who is unable to keep their stupidity and ignorance to themselves, thus they blog all the time.
Once this SED neologism makes it into the popular press, we will need to have a photo of Nathan and a link to the WE Blog as exemplars.
LOL. I should have to pay money for so many laughs…
I carry my gun with me everywhere I am allowed by law to.
I even carry to church.
My church has several members who carry concealed and we have a security club where we talk about security of the church and even inform the Pastor about who is carrying and when or where we will be just in case something happens.
If you think a church is safe from people who want to kill then you obviously don’t pay any attention to the news.
There is nothing about my carrying concealed in church which makes me an idiot, crazy, scared, or any other name you want to call me.
Most of you who think carrying in church is dumb think carrying concealed at all is dumb, so it makes no difference that you want to get all riled up about church.
Steven,
How will a shrink at the VA be able to help my father with who is “on top” between you and JR?
Is a shrink at the VA allowed to share that kind of information about her patients or did you give her permission to talk about your relations with JR?
Protect that collection plate at all cost!
Charges filed in Los Angeles church fair shooting
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/05/21/charges_filed_in_los_angeles_church_fair_shooting/
“Witnesses told police that Diaz kissed his son, then took a rifle out of a tennis bag and opened fire. The ex-girlfriend was shot in the arm. A man was shot in the chest, and a bullet grazed another man’s leg.”
Police Seek Leads in Shooting at Church
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003407.html
“As the victims were leaving the church, they were approached by a masked assailant, said Officer Henry Tippett, the spokesman.
“He produced a handgun and fired multiple shots at the victims,” Tippett said. He said officers canvassed the area Wednesday night in search of a suspect. “
Gunman, victim killed in Colo. church attack
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22171718/
“COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – A gunman killed one person and wounded four others before being shot dead by a security guard at a busy Colorado Springs megachurch on Sunday, authorities said.”
1 dead after church fundraiser shooting
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6164668
“A 50-year-old man from Philadelphia was shot in the head. Police say the suspect was in attendance at the fundraiser and opened fire at the conclusion of the victim’s presentation to the group.”
Gunman charged in Mo. church shooting
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-12-church-shooting_N.htm
“Prosecutors also charged the man, Eiken Elam Saimon, 52, with assault, felonious restraint for holding the congregation hostage, and armed criminal action. Another assault charge was pending, Newton County Prosecutor Scott Watson said.”
The doorway into a church is not some magical force field which keeps out bad people.
I carry concealed in church for the same reasons I carry concealed everywhere else.
To protect myself.
To protect my family.
To protect anyone else.
Period.
The question is not why would someone carry a concealed weapon.
The question is are you willing to protect yourself or your family?
If you are, then why do you make fun of those that choose to do so in the most effective way?
JR,
Would you stop someone from killing your son or just sit there and watch them do it?
Chas,
If someone walked into your church and was trying to kill a member of your congregation, would you sit there and watch or try to stop them?
WS Clark,
Um, nevermind, we already know that all you need is a good pair of running shoes. Screw everyone else.
Would you run from someone trying to kill your granddaughter though?
I’m tired of playing at nice with thugs.
They play nasty so I will too.
Where is your real mother Nathan? Clearly you Dad’s current wife is not your mother. You call her Joyce. I did too. And I met her and found her an arrogant, stuck up I’ll stop there.
If I assume too much you stop me here. Otherwise I will go on and be just as assumptive about you and your family as you and your “family” have been about mine.
JR,
And I found your son to be the typical uncontrolled and mannerless child.
He had no respect for the clubhouse nor for picking up after himself.
I think whatever your son told you about what my father said was either you lying or him lying.
Either way, one or the both of you are liars.
You are a small little pathetic excuse of a man who can’t provide for your family so you whine and cry about how everyone else should.
I think you only own 1 T-shirt because it is the only one I have seen you in the few times I have seen you.
If someone was trying to hurt your son, I think you are too big of a coward to even help him and even if you tried you would be to weak or pathetic to stop them.
Perhaps someone else should raise your son for you since you seem so incapable of doing it yourself?
Nathan,
While you and yours may not seek the death of my son or myself.
You WOULD gladly assign us a fate worse than death. That being servitude to you.
For my son and myself, we would rather kill you and yours first.
The always pithy “Nathaniel” conjures up this question –
“If someone walked into your church and was trying to kill a member of your congregation, would you sit there and watch or try to stop them?”
I don’t know much about your church (when are you going to invite me?) but when I attend the church I attend when I attend church, the thought of a mad gunmen attacking a worship service is about as far from anyone’s mind than anything. There’s good music, provocative talk, joy and sometimes tears but most of all: fellowship.
These people are my friends; even the ones whose names I don’t know. We’re not quite family but we are congregation.
And yeah, if I pushed my imagination envelope to its most paranoid extremes I can now imagine (thanks for the imagery, “Nathaniel.”) what I might do “if someone walked into your church and was trying to kill a member.”
I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t be so shocked and stunned I’d just sit there, stunned, afraid, unable to move.
But I’d like to think I’d run at the guy to save the people around me. It might be crazy suicide, but I doubt it. I’d jump on the guy and other people in the congregation would jump on me and him and he’d be neutralized and the killing would stop.
Under your scenario, there’d be all sorts of opportunities for the director of the childrens’ Bell Choir to get caught in a crossfire. But maybe the pistol-packin’ pious have worked out logistics well in advance.
Of all the things to worry about!
Of all the things to obsess on.
What if… an army of hippy-pinko-Socialist-Liberal arugula-swilling white wine-eating gay elite terrorist statist freedom-hating fairies invades your home while you’re in the shower? I trust you’ve strapped on your waterproof holster.
Unlike a lot of Liberals, I don’t have anything personal against guns or the Second Amendment. I support the right to keep and bear arms for anyone except those people who really, really, REALLY! want it. You people are spooky sometimes, what with your paranoid fantasies of how you’ll kill the crazy guy who’s never gonna come to your church and try to kill a member.
MonkeyHawk,
I simply don’t believe you go to church. You could probably have fooled me with a bunch, but not that.
I already told you that I am not going to invite a pig like you to my church.
Stop asking.
Respect for the clubhouse?
It was a dump! When we drove into a gated community of large homes I know I expected better.
Clearly, there is no community pride where your dad lives Nathan.
If you want to indite my son, cite examples. My son learns from me. At the first meetup, I stayed after everyone else left to clean up.
As to insulting me, you and your Dad are stale in that. Your dad married money. You benefit from it. We get it.
What a hero you are Nathan. You can attack my 14 year old son.
You and your dad took the first step in fighting dirty.
Where is your Mom Nathan? Your real mom I mean.
How very small you are Nathan.
I wish I could have a do over.
At another meetup, I introduced my son to you.
I said, “This is Nathan, he’s a Marine.”
Rest assured. My son reads here. He is not much interested in politics. But he does read here.
I don’t have to teach him to hate you.
“Nathaniel” comes down from the mountain and reveals –
“I simply don’t believe you go to church.”
If reality depended on the stuff “Nathaniel” believes it’d be an even stranger world than it is.
“You could probably have fooled me with a bunch,”
Yeah, probably.
You’re not all that bright.
“…but not that.”
If it is any consolation to you, “Nathaniel,” you could probably conjure up an argument that it isn’t a “real” church.
“I already told you that I am not going to invite a pig like you to my church.
“Stop asking.”
My immortal soul is in your hands, “Nathaniel.”
My guess is the God you worship keeps score.
You’ll remember the times you refused to lead me to salvation. For a long, long time.
MonkeyHawk,
If you are going to church, why is your soul in my hands?
JR,
You don’t want me to talk bad about your family, don’t talk bad about mine.
Simple.
I cannot speak for Monkeyhawk, but personally?
I would not dignify your church with my presence Nathan.
You and yours started it Nathan. Your lousy father has made it his trademark here. You fall close to the tree.
I hate you, you hate me. That expanded to family. Let’s go from there. I prefer honesty.
Good night.
“Nathaniel” –
It’s pretty obvious you think I’ve fallen in with a bad crowd; a church that isn’t “Christian.”
So my soul must be hanging in the balance, right?
You’ve found The Truth, brother! A church that has strategically-placed pistol-packin’-pious people ready and equipped to shoot your fantasy worship service invader!
The church I attend when I attend church is way behind your outfit when it comes to guaranteeing the congregation is adequately armed. Y’know, not really “Christian.”
“Would you run from someone trying to kill your granddaughter though?”
I don’t recall joining this particular discussion, Price, nor have I ever said that “running” was an answer, so why are you bringing my name into it?
For people who consider themselves “Christians”, none of you act like it.
I’d say it’s time to walk the walk.
Hank and Nathan are good people, JR and his son are also good people. Even though I often disagree with all of you, I’ve also enjoyed all your company.
All this “tit for tat” is so stupid and immature. How can a Christine “hate” someone else and still consider himself an example of how Jesus wanted us to live? Next time you go to church, maybe you need to reflect on how to become a more loving and compassionate people.
By the way JR, our’s is not a “gated” community..and we have worked on the club house since you last saw it. Most of us who live here aren’t rich, we’ve just worked hard to make this neighborhood what it is…a nice area, friendly and helpful neighbors who all know each other, and a great place to raise our kids.
I paid less than $75,000 for my home in 1989. The way you talk about us, people would think Hank and I are millionares or something..that’s far from the truth…and Hank’s wife Joyce is one of the nicest, most down to earth people you could ever meet. I don’t know why you always make such false assumptions about those you don’t really know, but it’s something you should to work on.
Nathan, you of all people should be a better example of how a Christian is supposed to act…”judge not lest ye be judged”, You have no right to declare who’s “Christian” and who’s not…sometimes you are way too arrogant for your own good.
Hey I’m not a Christian, I’m exempt.
Copy that political mama. Me too.
Hee hee hee heeeee!
I like the comment about JR only having ONE T-shirt!
I bet he’s like me. I bet he has TWO! Same color!
One for work, one for dressing up.
WTF else do you need? :)
heheheheheheh. Mine are both white…. I can bleach them that way!
And I have two pairs of shoes. Boots for everyday, and regular shoes for dress….
You damn clothes horses are driving up the price for everyone! Sure glad you dont wear Red Wings!
Oh, and I only wear the “dress” shoes for weddings and funerals. They are my “marrying and burying” shoes.
They go with my Marrying and Burying t-shirst. And I dont segregate my two pairs of jeans. I just use a lot of Shout.
And if you think I’m kidding… just ask my friends!
Thanks for the support Mary!
But I don’t think the boy or I ever mentioned anything about ‘hating’ anyone. Just because junior says I hate him doesn’t make it so.
Mostly he amuses me. As long as he posts here it makes everyone else look good!
And here I was trying to be nice!
I wore my Humane society T shirt. Either the one that says “It’s their world too” or the one with the puppy wrapped in the American flag.
I guess I should have worn my “Axis of Evil” t shirt with pics of bush, cheney, and Rumsfeld.
You have me sized up pretty well kfg.
Besides the oneupmanship of who is the best at insults I read here on this thread advertisements for concealed carry. This is who I am, where I live and I always carry. Guess anyone who may want to do any harm is forewarned.
Advertise concealed carry.
Irony?
Heh
I don’t need a haircut. I DO need to find my baseball cap.
“You have me sized up pretty well kfg.:
Well JR, I was talking about myself, but I suspected you might have the same wardrobe designer I use.
And my piano top has a row of baseball caps on it. The work caps hang in the porch and they range from “slightly dirty, wear to the co-op and lumberyard” to “really filthy and disgusting” that I only wear for gardening and chicken coop cleaning”.
The piano caps are my “dress” caps. My “marrying and burying” caps.
I havent owned a cowboy hat since jr. high. And with a nod to CF, I used to have a Fedora, but I cant find it anymore. But then, I dont cruise for chics anymore either so I havent looked for it lately.
Hee hee heeeeeee. And I ALWAYS need a haircut. Even the day after a haircut…
Someone might kindly refer to me as “scruffy”. Unkindly, the words “feral animal” come to mind…
You are always good for a smile and a warming of my heart farmgrrl:).
You’re beautiful. In AND outside.
We need to get you out this way again. If you don’t mind, I would like to write to you and see when would be good for you to come see folks again. We do those things back channel now days. I only mention it here to put the word out to newer folks.
In the fall, it is my hope to put together a road trip out your way. I’ll write you soon.
Heh JR. Of course you can email me anytime, and I would LOVE to have company here. I doubt I’ll get to Wichita anytime soon. It’s high farming season and the chickens will kill me in my sleep if I dont feed and water them three times a day.
Of course, heheh, tomorrow, “hatchet man” comes to the farm…
Half of them are having their “last supper” tonight. Before they become MY supper!
“ksfarmgrrl” –
I like your style.
But when it comes to chicken-killin’ my grandmother retired the trophy.
She’s go out with a bunch of corn & stuff in her apron and scatter it around and all the chickens scrambled hither and yon for it. And when the apron was empty, she leaned down, grabbed a hen by the throat, and twisted he wrist. Sometimes, if she got it just right, the head would come off and my sisters and I got the thrill of chasing a chicken with its head off.
By the time we had to go to church, the recently departed was dressed and gutted and stuffed and roasting. By the time we got back from church, the guest of honor was golden brown and delicious.
Her life was gentle, and the elements
So mixed in her, that Nature might stand up
And say to all the world, ‘This was a chicken!!’
I bow to your grandmother MonkeyHawk. I’ve seen the
“twist o’ death” done, but I’m not that good. I just use a sharp ax and an old stump. I boil the plucking water in a propane turkey fryer, and I have five ice chests lined up beside the gutting table for chillin’ before freezin’.
Of course, all my pals are coming to help, and then… heheheh….
we’ll eat beef for lunch and wash it down with copious quantities of Coors Light. ‘Cause ya know, out here, we grow up spelling Koolaide C-O-O-R-S!
My Mom, like your grandma, would butcher, singe, cut up and fry all before we went to church. And when we came home, we had yummy fried chicken and ‘tater salad for lunch.
It’s true. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree.
Except for the church part of course.
And in case any city slickers didnt get it, we eat beef for lunch because, well, killing and cleaning fifty chickens makes it hard to eat them on the same day.
Hell, we might even go fishing for supper.
“Dont you wish your girlfriend was HOT like me!”
hee hee hee heeeeeeee…..
I’m curious Farm Girl,
I have 21 ducks, 16 Khaki Campbells and 5 white?
The Khakis are about 5 weeks old and the others are 7 or 8. I might just ‘harvest’ the 5 mystery ducks, they are getting quite large and probably will not be suitable to train the dogs with.
How old were your chickens when they ‘gave their all’? How old do you think the ducks need to be?
Ah, memories, Ms. Grrl. One of the earliest memories that I have – and on of the few that I do have of the time before I was dumped at the orphanage – was of my Grandma getting a chicken ready for the fryer.
For what ever reason, one of the things that is indelibly etched in my memory is those damned chickens running around with their heads cut off.
Grandma had a hatchet and she whacked their heads off on a stump and us kids – my aunts, uncles and cousins – would watch the chicken races.
Like I said, for whatever reason, that was one of my few remaining memories.
Clark, I hope I have the chance to give you a big ol’ hug someday! I think yer pretty special.
Hank, I have no idea about the ducks, but I tell ya, roasted duck in port wine is just about my favorite dish in the world!
The chickens now are about eight weeks old. I kinda go by size, not age. I have them on a hot ration, and they grow like little weeds. We’re doing the big ones this week, and the smaller ones next week. I’ve cooled off the rations by mixing in more corn and milo and less purchased broiler finish.
I’m thinking the ducks could be anywhere from 5-6 pounds dressed to be ideal. I guess that means about 8 pounds “on the hoof” as it were. I know little about ducks, so I dont know how long it takes to get them to that size. I do know you cant have too much fat on a duck. And rendered duck fat, used to fry potatoes… well… just about better than sex.
Good luck. Let me know how it turns out. I’m thinking about ducks, geese and turkey next year. I love wild geese and wild turkey, but wild duck, not so much. So maybe I’ll just raise the duck and hunt the others.
I sure to love to hunt duck though, the way we do it out here by sneaking up on them. I’ve sat in duck blinds in Louisiana and south Texas, and I HATE hunting that way.
It must be about as close for you to go to the mountains as it is for you to drive to Wichita farmgrrl. I know which direction I’D choose.
I may try to put together a road trip in the fall with a few friends to come out and see your place. I don’t want to be there on chicken killing day though! My visits to my grandparents’ farm they always took care of that stuff before we arrived.
Clark and MonkeyHawk, have you heard John Prine’s
“Grandpa Was A Carpenter”?
I couldnt find a video of John doing the song, all I could find was this really bad cover, but you get the idea if you dont know the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc2D1ZItNaY&feature=related
And as with most Prine songs, the lyrics are the best part, so listen close if you can stand it!
Not to worry JR. Most days, this is a kill free zone. Just not tomorrow or next weekend.
You’ll love Lucky the farm dog. And the chickens. Heh. Lucky and the Chickens. Great name for a band, no?
Actually, Trego county’s fame is that it is half way between Kansas City and Denver. Small claim. Just makes us the farthest place from ANYWHERE!
Be sure to bring your fishing pole.
We’ll “Whistle and Fish”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzdEQOHL_I&feature=related
Trego county near that little town Collier huh?
I like messing about with googlemaps. I’ll have to take a look at how it looks out there.
I will have to look also and see if I have been through there before.