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289 Comments
“What’s the new name for an advisor to the Obama campaign?”
“ Answer: Speed bump…”
teehee
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/jamesjohnsonbus.png
“Heckler” –
After John Sidney McCain the Third (for Shrub’s 3rd term) meets with lobbyists, does he spit or swallow?
The internet is dying.
BTW, I wrote on here a long time ago about growing a garden. I saw on the main page that there are apparently lots of smart folks around here.
Tomato?
Pleefer
Typical classy reply from a ‘tolerant’ leftwinger.
Monkey”boy”
I don’t know anything about this “spit or swallow” business. Maybe you can enlighten me.
Elections are won by men and women chiefly because most people vote against somebody rather than for somebody.
– Franklin P. Adams
Heckler, you’re retarded. I’m NO “LEFTWINGER” (whatever the f&%$ that means?), dolt. And I’m completely intolerant.
Pleefer
My, the name calling. You sure talk like a lefty.
As a “right winger”, why don’t you bomb me and my family for this bad “name calling” that I undertake and then charge me for the bombs? I consider you a “name-caller” for aligning me with either of these false left/right paradigm sides by calling me a “left-winger”. There is no difference between either, but by all means, keep slaving away with your head in the sand. You are a fine product of public schools and television. Good luck with that.
I am voting Democrat because: Paying 30% of my wages in taxes is not enough…
I am voting Democrat because: I like rolling blackouts…
I am voting Democrat because: Paying 5ive dollars a gallon for gas is just not enough…
I forgot to mention that as a “typical right-winger”, you can also pray for GOD to lead, guide and direct the bomb to go straight down my name calling throat.
OMG, Obama smokes cigarettes! He deserves death. Nevermind that he ditched the press corps that was following him so’s he could go to private meetings. And further nevermind that the meetings were in the DC area where, it just so happens, that the Bilderberger’s were meeting in Chantilly, VA at the same time he left the press hanging in Chicago.
I ain’t anticipating any “change” from that twit either. If he gets voted in that is…
He ought not get Clinton as a running mate, cause she’ll end up being president…know whut I mean??
You suck.
I’m voting Democrat because I want the same people who spend $900 dollars on a hammer making my medical decisions.
Salerno Hired as Wichita City Manager
Date: June 10, 2008
Contact: Communications Team
: (316) 268-4351
Click to view news conference video
Download these related documents:
Previous City Managers
City Manager Agreement
Pat Salerno Resume
Patrick Salerno is Wichita’s next City Manager after the Wichita City Council approved his contract in a unanimous vote on Tuesday. Salerno, who served as the City Manager of Sunrise, Fla., the past 18 years, will start his job with the City of Wichita on July 14.
Mayor Carl Brewer and other City officials provided details of Salerno’s contract during a 2:30 p.m. news conference on Tuesday at City Hall, 455 N. Main. Brewer was joined by Vice Mayor Sue Schlapp, City Council members, interim City Manager Ed Flentje, City Attorney Gary Rebenstorf and businessman Steve Martens, who headed a 17-member Citizens Committee that screened 30 candidates. In recent weeks, Brewer, Schlapp, Flentje and Rebenstorf managed contract negotiations with Salerno who did not attend the news conference.
“We’re pleased that Pat Salerno has accepted the City’s top administrative job,” Brewer said. “He has the experience, expertise and record of success to help take our city to an even higher level.”
Brewer emphasized Salerno’s depth of experience and accomplishments in economic development, urban planning and efforts to fight blight in aging neighborhoods in Sunrise.
Salerno’s employment contract provides an annual salary of $215,000, a monthly car allowance of $700, and a cell phone allowance of $125. Other terms include four weeks of vacation, two weeks of sick leave and health and life insurance. For more information, please see attached employment contract along with Salerno’s resume.
Salerno served as city manager of Sunrise, Fla., from 1990 to 2008. Previously, he served as county manager of Chatham County, Ga. and assistant county manager of Volusia County, Fla. He holds a master’s degree from the University of Oklahoma.
The City Manager reports to the seven-member Council, oversees 3,100 employees, a $500 million annual budget and a $2.4 billion Capital Improvement Program.
Salerno will be the 20th person to serve as Wichita’s City Manager. He fills a position vacated when former City Manager George Kolb resigned on Jan. 2. Salerno was recommended by a 17-member Citizens Committee, led by Wichita businessman Steve Martens. Martens said Salerno emerged as the top candidate from a pool of 30 applicants and nine finalists. He, too, cited his strong record of accomplishment in economic development.
Who sucks Mary? Kind of a blanket, ambiguous statement.
“I’m voting Democrat because I want the same people who spend $900 dollars on a hammer making my medical decisions.”
As opposed to Republicans who have waged a 3 trillion dollar unnecessary war against a country that was no threat to us or our national interest? As opposed to a Republican administration who is leaving with a 9 tillion dollar national debt?
The $900 hammer is starting to sound like a bargain.
“He ought not get Clinton as a running mate, cause she’ll end up being president…know whut I mean??”
You suck.
Hahahaha, the truth is sometimes painful…Vincent Foster ring a bell? She’s already alluded to Robert Kennedy…remember?
I suck.
Obama is ahead by SEVEN points nationally.
Projections right now have him at 304 EC votes to 214.
Get used to saying “President Obama,” wingnuts.
Oh, yeah. We’ll also increase our lead in the Senate and the House.
It so sucks to be YOU.
Gotta be doorking/beber. Scroll over.
How ’bout that dying Dollar? Belgium buying Budweiser??? Ahhhhh! the sky is falling!!!
America, destroyed by design.
Pleefer,
Revolution brother.
Yessir. I’m ready, you’re ready…but are they? I pray my fellow countrymen and women will wake up and soon.
It so sucks to be YOU.
———-
Um… no it doesn’t.
Once again, the Capn thinks that because his happiness is tied to politics and election results, everyone else’s is too.
Muslims do the darnedest things….
Report: Troubling texts at Va. Islamic school
The books say it’s OK for Muslims to kill adulterers and converts
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25106145/
Teaching in USA -
The authors of a 12th-grade text on Quranic interpretation state that apostates (those who convert from Islam), adulterers and people who murder Muslims can be permissibly killed.
The authors of a 12th-grade text on monotheism write that “(m)ajor polytheism makes blood and wealth permissible,” meaning that a Muslim can take with impunity the life and property of someone believed guilty of polytheism. According to the panel, the strict Saudi interpretation of polytheism includes Shiite and Sufi Muslims as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists.
A social studies text offers the view that Jews were responsible for the split between Sunni and Shiite Muslims: “The cause of the discord: The Jews conspired against Islam and its people. A sly, wicked person who sinfully and deceitfully professed Islam infiltrated (the Muslims).”
American industry should take advantage of the falling dollar. Now we can be more competitive in foreign markets!
Why should we be “tolerant” of this?
And we think we’re going to be able to set up a democracy in the Middle East for people that believe in and practice this type of religion?
I’m certain that’s going to work out real fine!
If they’re not religiously tolerant, how can they be politically tolerant? Or separate the two?
Here’s where ANTI got that SHOCKING! information from a public schoolbook:
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Jun11/0,4670,SaudiAcademy,00.html
Turns out, it’s ONE private school in Virginia that goes by the name of “Islamic Saudi Academy.”
Thing is, if you close down that religious school for “intolerance,” then you’d also have to close down Bishop Carrol and Trinity Academy.
OOps, didn’t see the post before your last post, ANTI.
I am voting Democrat because: Paying 5ive dollars a gallon for gas is just not enough…
And just what have the Republicans done about it? The price of gas has been rising for the past 8 years. It didn’t suddenly just jump from under $2 to $4.
Capn’ notice msnbc in the link (you missed it up thread)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25106145/
——
“Thing is, if you close down that religious school for “intolerance,” then you’d also have to close down Bishop Carrol and Trinity Academy.”
—–
Yes, when they teach that killing people who don’t beleive as they do is OK- Shut Them Down!!
CapnAmerica
Posted June 12, 2008 at 9:09 am | Permalink
OOps, didn’t see the post before your last post, ANTI.
—-
OK
The books say it’s OK for Muslims to kill adulterers and converts
Have you read the Bible lately?
CapnAmerica
Posted June 12, 2008 at 9:09 am | Permalink
OOps, didn’t see the post before your last post, ANTI.
—-
OK- it happens. :)
Predestined
Posted June 12, 2008 at 9:10 am | Permalink
I am voting Democrat because: Paying 5ive dollars a gallon for gas is just not enough…
And just what have the Republicans done about it? The price of gas has been rising for the past 8 years. It didn’t suddenly just jump from under $2 to $4.
—————————–
The Congress holds the power of the purse. Since the Democrats have been elected, gas prices have gone up $1.66/gallon.
Cause and effect – The do nothing Congress has led us down this path.
Jed wrote:
“Hell, I feel pretty damn free! I can get on this blog and tell you reactionaries where to stuff it, I can go to Argentina if I want and I can walk down any street in town without worrying about having to pack heat. How free do I need to be?”
How about you go and try to buy something with your worthless Federal Reserve Notes and pray you get the same purchasing power as you did in 1913? You see, you seperate the economy from Freedom thinking and that is impossible.
Do you know how many centrally planned economies have succeeded over the centuries? None! Not one single one. This centrally planned economy will fall one day. You may not be around to see it, but it is going to happen.
If you can’t have true economic freedom, how can you have liberty and prosperity. How can you think this illusion of freedom is what our founders had in mind.
Usury is immoral and it was the biggest reason for the American Revolution. God forbade it in the bible. It is wrong to have your savings taken away from you through the hidden tax of inflation.
You will be the wiser to start linking our Foreign Policy and Economy to your definition of Freedom. The idea of our Foreign Policy and Economy today are perverting your freedoms you think you have.
“Society rest on every mans shoulders. No one is relieved of his duty to society. This is especially true if society is sweeping toward destruction. Therefore, it is every mans obligation to thrust himself vigorously into the intellectual battle.”
-Ludwig Von Mises
Have you thrust yourself into the intellectual battle yet?
ANTI–
Catholics aren’t interested in killing one’s physical body.
They just excommunicate the people they don’t like and consign their souls to burn in an eternal lake of fire for all time.
But they only do it out of a concern for geniune Christian mercy . . .
Objectivism . . . where small minds can feel big.
Big oil is evil. They should be taxed and fined and penalized. Shame on them for making an 8.5% profit margin.
Why is no one taking about Hedge funds? They make an 87% profit margin. Why are they not punished as well?
Why stop there? Why not punish every company that makes money? Evil evil money makers.
“The Congress holds the power of the purse. Since the Democrats have been elected, gas prices have gone up $1.66/gallon.
Cause and effect – The do nothing Congress has led us down this path.”
Please explain your reasoning here. I thought the war would lower the prices to fifty cents a gallon.
Objectivist
Revolution.
Pred.
“And just what have the Republicans done about it? The price of gas has been rising for the past 8 years. It didn’t suddenly just jump from under $2 to $4.”
They’ve tried to open up more public land for drilling but the Dems just keep killing those bills. One just yesterday, I believe, to open up some offshore leases. The Chicoms are drilling off of Florida but we can’t. (are you listening Jeb?)
annie moose
Who claimed the war would lower prices?
Relief may be in sight however. A new refinery is going up in South Dakota. New drilling techniques have opened up some massive reserves in the Dakotas and Montana. I’ve heard estimates(and I don’t know how credible they are) That the Dakotas may have more oil than Saudi ever dreamed of having. Time will tell.
Bush Executive Order Expands Biometric Data Collection on New Groups of People, Will Share Data with “Foreign Partners”
Big Brother wants your irises.
George Bush just issued a directive to expand the acquisition of biometric information, and to ensure that agencies across the executive branch share it.
And the Bush Administration may give it to foreign governments, too.
All this according to National Security Presidential Directive Number 59, also known as Homeland Security Presidential Directive Number 24, which George W. Bush signed on June 5.
The directive is aimed at “known and suspected terrorists,” as well as “other persons who may pose a threat to national security.”
The directive does not say how these other persons who “may pose a threat” are to be defined.
And the directive is so broadly worded that it appears to cover anyone the government has biometric or other personal data on.
“To be most effective, national security identification and screening systems will require timely access to the most accurate and most complete biometric, biographic, and related that are, or can be, made available throughout the executive branch,” the
document states.
Bush ordered executive departments and agencies to “use mutually compatible methods and procedures in the collection, storage, use, analysis, and sharing of biometric and associated biographic and contextual information of individuals.” Agencies are supposed to share this information with each other “to the fullest extent permitted by law” whenever “there is an articulable and reasonable basis for suspicion” that an individual poses a “threat to national security.”
The directive does not specify what an “articulable and reasonable basis” might be.
“Known and suspected terrorists,” or KSTs, as the document calls them, are not the only concern of the Bush Administration.
It has whole groups of other people that it wants to gather biometric information on.
Within 90 days, the Attorney General is tasked to “recommend categories of individuals in addition to KSTs who may pose a threat to national security,” and he is ordered to “set forth cost-effective actions and associated timelines for expanding the collection and use of biometrics to identify and screen for such individuals.”
The Attorney General is to coordinate this “with the Secretaries of State, Defense, and Homeland Security, the DNI [Director of National Intelligence], and the Director of Science and Technology Policy.”
The Attorney General is also required to identify “legal authorities” to implement the
directive.
The directive states that it wants to expand the use of biometrics on individuals “in a lawful and appropriate manner, while respecting their information privacy and other legal rights under United States law.”
But the directive offers no suggestion about how those rights would be protected.
The directive also says that the Secretary of State “shall coordinate the sharing of biometric and associated biographic and contextual information with foreign partners.”
Under what circumstances the Secretary of State would share such information with “foreign partners” remains unclear. All the directive says is that it would happen “in accordance with applicable law, including international obligations undertaken by the United States.”
Given the Bush Administration’s demonstrated disdain for applicable law and international obligations, and given its record of violating people’s privacy rights, this is not reassuring.
Capn’, telling someone that they are going to burn in hell is different than teaching that killing people who don’t believe as you do is OK.
Here’s something the do nothing (both parties) can do to help with fuel prices…
Stop being ignorant sluts and drill for oil.
House Subcommittee Rejects Plan to Open U.S. Waters to More Oil Exploration
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365627,00.html
The cause and effect – Congress has done nothing to even attempt to lower the price of oil and gas.
They were voted in for leadership and are not leading, they are just passing time voting on pork.
In the U.S., we have oil reservers larger than Saudi Arabia, yet we just sit on them. Why?
A small country like Norway is one of the world’s leading off shore oil and gas rig suppliers. They are 10th in the world in oil exploration and they do it all with environmental green-ness.
The politically correct environmentalist are killing this country holding on to an ideology that is as sound as can of gas in a fireplace.
We can easily do what Norway has done and become independent of the oil tyrants who have nationally owned oil assets.
DRILL HERE
DRILL NOW
PAY LESS
Bush Executive Order Expands Biometric Data Collection on New Groups of People, Will Share Data with “Foreign Partners”
And the difference between modern Democrats and (Neo)Conservatives is….
Nada.
The largest scam to transfer wealth since the ‘New Deal’. Sponsored by…
McCain
“In January 2003, Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) introduced legislation to cap and trade emissions of greenhouse gases, the precursor to global climate change. Their approach is based on a broad, flexible trading framework, and represents one of the most significant domestic proposals to date in the arena of climate change policy.”
http://www.rff.org/rff/News/Features/Understanding-the-McCain-Lieberman-Stewardship-Act.cfm
McCain’s cap-and-trade position is similar to both of his liberal potential adversaries. According to his campaign Web site, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) also supports “implementation of a market-based cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions by the amount scientists say is necessary: 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050.” Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) also has a climate plan “centered on a cap and trade system for carbon emissions.”
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080319133739.aspx
Why is McCain running on the Republican ticket? He votes and sponsors Liberal bills.
SolDevVB
Posted June 12, 2008 at 9:22 am | Permalink
Objectivist
Revolution.
__________________________________________________
Are you running for precinct committeeman in your precinct? We need to take our knowledge and build from the ground up.
I wrote Tiahrt a letter and asked him to support or co-sponser HR2755. It is a bill to abolish the federal reserve act of 1913.
I suggest that everyone write your congressmen and ask him to support the same bill. You will be better off in the long run, as well as your children and grandchildren.
Have a nice day everyone.
Dems VS Repubs on gasoline.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/06/020729.php
Banned if you Do, Taxed if you Don’t
by Mac Johnson
Posted: 06/12/2008
Senate Democrats fell just a few votes short this week of repeating one of the great acts stupidity of modern times. In an apparent homage to Jimmy Carter and the1970s, Democrat leader Harry Reid attempted to shove through a “windfall” profits tax designed to seize 25% of any American oil company profits that the Democrats see as “excessive,” “obscene,” or just shiny and ripe for the taking by Big Government.
At the root of things, oil prices are so high right now because oil in short supply relative to years of rapidly growing global demand. The only way this can be solved, short of sabotaging the world economy to reduce demand, is to increase supply. In other words, some group must find new oil (and this may shock you) then actually drill for it once it is found. There are oil reserves in Alaska and offshore (on our own continental shelf) that, if they were brought online, could cut the price of oil back down to $40 per barrel.
But these known supplies have been kept offline by the Federal government.
This means that oil has to be found somewhere else inside America that Congress or the President has not yet declared a reserve, a sanctuary, a refuge, a park, a monument, a preserve, a landmark, a historic site, a memorial, or just too close to somebody’s mansion. Finding and extracting oil from such diminishing possibilities requires money — and it’s exactly the sort of thing that evil American capitalist petro-pigs would do with their so-called “profits,” if these are not seized by the porkers in Congress first. Every oilfield on Earth runs dry eventually and must be replaced with a new one, and the American oil companies have been doing this for decades using the exactly the funds that Democrats label “windfall profits
Companies don’t spend as much money to develop new supplies when oil prices are low, because that would be stupid — only government strives to operate at a loss. However, when prices are high, risky and expensive undertakings like developing whole new oilfields become realistic and rewarding.
Congress proposes to seize money from the oil companies whenever prices are high. This is a formula to keep supplies tight and prices high. Essentially, Congress, having made oil prices higher, wants to punish oil companies for those prices being so high, a move which will keep prices high… and inspire Congress to punish oil companies even more later.
Of course, Congress cannot seize the profits of foreign oil companies, so their exploration and drilling will continue unfazed by the proposed windfall profit tax. Only American oil drilling will be slowed — increasing our dependency on foreign oil even further (which has been the primary result of declaring whole swaths of our own country off-limits to ourselves).
In fact, to make dependence on foreign oil even worse, Congress (which consists largely of lawyers by the way) added a proposal to the bill that would allow people to sue OPEC’s foreign oil producers to make them produce more oil for us. Put aside the fact that foreign countries are sovereign entities that don’t have to drill even one hole in their own land if they don’t want to, and consider why, exactly, they should have to drill for their oil when we won’t drill for ours? It’s likely that Congress has kept more oil off the market than OPEC. Can we sue Congress?
The only area of the world in which America can demand drilling is America. If we don’t supply our own needs, then we just have to hope that someone else will do it for us — and pay whatever price that involves.
Yet all Democrats propose to do is hobble the American oil companies with a seizure of profits that reflect only the reality of Congress’s past successes in banning new supplies of energy.
Banned if you do, taxed so you won’t — that’s the Democrats’ policy toward American energy exploration.
Mr. Johnson, a writer and medical researcher in Cambridge, Mass., is a regular contributor to HUMAN EVENTS. His column generally appears on Tuesdays. Archives and additional material can be found at http://www.macjohnson.com.
Heckler,
A quick search on the google finds
Appearing this afternoon on MSNBC’s Hardball, White House Counselor Dan Barlett adamantly denied that anyone in the administration claimed that the Iraq war would lead to lower gas prices. The transcript:
MATTHEWS: [W]e’ve been struck by higher gas prices. That was another promise made, that this war would help us get cheaper gas —
BARTLETT: I don’t think —
MATTHEWS: None of these promises come through.
BARTLETT: That’s not correct, Chris. The president or no one else ever said that this war was going to result in cheaper gas prices…
MATTHEWS: Ok, so just to make it official, Dan, no one in the administration has ever said that we would have cheaper gas because of war in Iraq, just to make it official?
BARTLETT: I don’t recall anybody ever saying that, Chris.
As Matthews noted later in the broadcast, Laurence Lindsey – President Bush’s senior economic advisor at the time — argued in 2002 that the Iraq war would increase oil supplies and lower prices. From the Washington Times, 9/19/02:
As for the impact of a war with Iraq, “It depends how the war goes.” But he quickly adds that that “Under every plausible scenario, the negative effect will be quite small relative to the economic benefits that would come from a successful prosecution of the war.”
“The key issue is oil, and a regime change in Iraq would facilitate an increase in world oil,” which would drive down oil prices, giving the U.S. economy an added boost.
Bartlett is a talented spinmeister but facts are stubborn things.
“Why is McCain running on the Republican ticket? He votes and sponsors Liberal bills.”
Many voters would love an answer to that question. Republican In Name Only or as I refer to him, The Lesser Democrat.
annie moose
Good dig. I commend you. But I don’t recall it being echoed throughout the admin.
Heckler
Rupert Murdoch said that if we went to war in Iraq, it would make gas cheap.
We are occupying the area with the 2nd richest oil reserves on the planet (Iraq) and gas goes up and up.
I was wrong. This isn’t a war for oil. It’s a war for the oil companies.
Blood for bottomline there cons.
“Why is McCain running on the Republican ticket? He votes and sponsors Liberal bills.”
You know, as well as I, that there is no difference. There is the appearance of difference, and Americans eat it up.
It is painful to listen to talk radio in the afternoon. All the callers that call in and support Sean Hannity and his views. They attack the left, but the right is just as bad.
I don’t know how Ron Paul has dealt with all of this for so many years. I feel like I’m going to lose my mind everytime I listen to todays media, or its brainwashed followers.
My recent favorites include Bill O-Reilly and his propaganda. He tells us that Scott McClellan wrote his book because of the left.
“The editor was a Liberal, blah, blah, blah.”
Hey Bill. Instead of trying to create divide amongst the American people, how about you listen to someone who may have Americas interest at heart and may care about the principles of this country.
What’s the saddest thing about all of this? Americans actually will listen to Bill O-Reilly because they think they can be lazy and rely on someone else to do their thinking for them.
SolDevVB,
Revolution my friend.
The Lesser Democrat
I be stealin that one.
North Dakota oil
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html
Objectivist,
Missed my moment (Michigan) but will be keeping track and more involved in local politics.
The GOP has been shutting R3volution minded delegates from the elections. The R3volution seeks merely to bring conservatism and constitutionality back to the party. The GOP seems to have a great fear of this. They do not want their power diminished. They want to keep making their own rules. They want to keep expanding government, entitlement programs, empires…
More people are awake now. More people see. Grass roots. Ground up. Inside out. R3volution. R3volution. R3volution.
For those on the right that stated categorically that Gitmo detainees had NO rights because they were “unlawful combatants?”
The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25117953
“Supreme Court backs Guantanamo detainees – Foreign terrorism suspects have right to challenge detention, court rules”
“We hold these petitioners do have the habeas corpus privilege,” Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote for the court majority in the 70-page opinion.”
Now what, cons?
The political “system” is served by keeping us divided. If we were united as people would we reelect those nincompoops? If we all admitted we’re being played and used, then UNelected all of them it wouldn’t take many elections to get our point across. That would be a revolution I would happily participate with!
Now what, cons?
Oh I don’t know. Maybe follow the law? Process the individuals and either try them or release them.
“Good dig. I commend you. But I don’t recall it being echoed throughout the admin.”
Your right Heckler the bulk of the reasoning was`security with a side helping of lower oil prices and the war would pay for itself
Their main job is to keep their jobs (get reelected). Nothing else gets as much attention!
And whose fault is that? OURS! We don’t hold them accountable. We reelect them. I understand that we don’t have great choices but the least we could do is keep them NO MORE than one term and give someone else a chance. It can’t be worse than what we’re doing!
Maybe if elected official became a job of excellence, a job of respectability, a job of service we would get candidates capable of performing that job instead of the nincompoops we currently have.
Linda,
Why not a revolution to put into power those that will follow the constitution? To right the wrongs of the severed civil liberties? To strengthen our monetary system by abolishing the fed? Closing down the empire and bringing our troops home? Strengthening our borders and making America strong from within? Taking care of America first? Limiting the federal government and their obscene spending and allowing the states to take care of their own?
Good info on all things oil
http://www.theoildrum.com/
““Supreme Court backs Guantanamo detainees – Foreign terrorism suspects have right to challenge detention, court rules”
“We hold these petitioners do have the habeas corpus privilege,” Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote for the court majority in the 70-page opinion.”
So mote it be. SCOTUS has spoken. Follow the law, do what is right. It’s the COnstitutional thing to do. (As is following all 5-4 decisions)
As Bush Threatens Iran, Thousands Protest in Italy
Back in Germany, President Bush also addressed Iran, repeating his longstanding threat to use military force if Iran fails to abide by US demands on its nuclear activities.
President Bush: “I just told you that all options are on the table. And my first choice is to solve this diplomatically, and the best way to solve it diplomatically is to work with our partners. And that’s exactly what we’re doing. And the message to the Iranian government is very clear, that there is a better way forward than isolation, and that is for you to verifiably suspend your enrichment program.”
Iran has offered to negotiate on its nuclear program and a broader agreement, but the US insists Iran must suspend nuclear activities as a precondition. From Germany, President Bush went on to Italy, where he faces protests from tens of thousands of people. On Wednesday, demonstrators began a major rally in Rome protesting Bush’s visit.
Protester: “We want to show Bush, the Italian government and the entire world that Italians do not support the politics of Bush and the politics of war.”
Protester: “I came here to protest against Bush. I think he’s a traitor to the American people and has been since he was elected.”
Protests are continuing in Italy today.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/12/headlines
And before the cons start whining about “radical leftist terrorist sympathizers” the issue of Gito detainees was never about “systematizing” with them, it is about our standing in the world. We are supposed to be better than that, and now the SCOTUS agrees.
Remember impeachment and how important the “rule of law” was?
Well, the “rule of law” is important and we need to live up to that. In the United States, we have an elected president that serves the people under the law. Bush has attempted to turn the presidency into his own monarchy.
It ain’t gonna happen………………..
Congressional Study Faults Bush Policies for Record Low US Standing
Bush’s visit to Europe comes as a new congressional study shows the US government’s global standing is at a record low. The subcommittee on international organizations report says so-called “Anti-Americanism” is at record levels due to the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and the Bush administration’s support for authoritarian governments.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/12/headlines
A peaceful revolution? One without fights or weapons? One where we all were willing to make compromises? Or one where we are each sure we know the only way forward and anyone who thinks differently is stupid and ill informed (and worse!)?
I can look at your list and agree with most of it. I have questions about some and disagreements with one or two. I do think reasonable adults can give and take to find acceptable starting points and solutions. Then, continue to monitor and make adjustments and improvements. Agree that this is a good start but we can’t rest on any laurels.
Look at this board, Sol. We’ve chosen sides and refuse to budge. We’re all sure someone who doesn’t agree with us is more than wrong.
We all must have only half the internet, suffer restrictions at our library, be able only to read half the words. Because no one gives credit for studying the whole and coming up with differences. We make it impossible to use our differences for improvements.
Remember brain storming? Remember feeding off another’s strengths and coming up with the best? Remember being able to admit we didn’t know everything but we knew something and could together be stronger?
At least the GITMO prisoners got to live for awhile longer. They’re lucky they didn’t get a ‘daisy cutter’ in their lap when they were fighting for the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
I’ve been gone a while, noticed that Objectivist has a brain and a voice. “Hello brother”. Truth is going to come out, in spite of the mainstream media and it’s audience.
Remember feeding off another’s strengths and coming up with the best?
I remember Bill Clinton putting conservatives in places of power because they were the best people for the job.
Peaceful? Of course. Grass roots. From the ground up. From the inside out.
Ask questions. That is our most powerful tool. Listen to the answers and demand clarification when the answer is dodged.
Start local and move up. Courteous, but not a lap dog. Accountability from our representatives.
Won’t happen in one election cycle. Maybe not even 10. But the citizens need to have their voices heard. And our representatives must listen or be removed.
Best quote for Neoconservatives and Democrats.
Ethics are so annoying. I avoid them on principle.
– Darby Conley
Sol, I’ll be there! With the proverbial bells on! Hope (that word again!) this catches on. Gotta start somewhere with someone.
Sol
“I remember Bill Clinton putting conservatives in places of power because they were the best people for the job.”
Don’t remember that. Doesnt mean it wasnt so, just don’t remember it.
Obama is planning to do it as well.
Barnstorming Obama plans to pick Republicans for cabinet
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3466823.ece
Smart move. Pick the best, reguardless of party. Can McCain say the same? Oh hell, he is from both parties.
“If they’re not religiously tolerant, how can they be politically tolerant? Or separate the two?”
Funny gster. You know, that’s what I keep saying about the Kansas Taliban.
And they just keep proving me correct!
anti- might I refer you to evilbible.com
I agree, those kind of texts are outrages.
P.M.- Perhaps you could refer me to a Christian school in the USA that teaches murder is OK to commit against other religions.
and/or against christian that have left the faith.
and/or against christians that have left the faith.
While I understand you don’t follow the Libertarian lines, the Ron Paul Revolution has moved into phase two. Ron Paul got us started and succeeded in his largest goal.
The revolution has set out a road map. A ‘How-to’. The GOP has been changing the rules to disallow Revolutionaries to take part at the convention. We have some that will go, but maybe just a 3rd or half of those rightfully elected by their peers.
We are electing like minded people to local office. We are electing like minded people to congress. These folks have heard our voices and have vowed to project those voices to the legislative arena.
Maybe the Liberals won’t be so exclusive. Maybe they won’t change the rules to bar anyone that does not toe the party line. Maybe you can’t start the chain Linda. Maybe if the Democrats can align, it will bleed over.
Hope. I like that word, maybe for different reasons though.
Maybe you can start…
“Maybe if the Democrats can align, it will bleed over.”
I don’t think that my positions are necessarily unusual for a Democrat – a “radical leftist” Democrat at that……..
Fiscally conservative – cut spending, reduce the Federal government, balanced/surplus budgets.
Socially liberal – equal rights for all, make/keep abortion safe, legal and rare, keep government out of private matters.
Militarily moderate – strong defense for the protection of America, anti-war, close foreign military bases, use force only to confront force.
Foreign policy liberal, support Palestinian homeland, diplomacy first, even with perceived enemies.
Environmentally liberal – address environmental issue in a fair manner, but err on the side of the planet.
I don’t think that my “radical leftist” positions are outside of the mainstream – there are many that share my views.
I also hope so Sol. I was a bit discouraged with how Kramer did in the Kansas Governor election of 2006. But the ideas are being heard more and more.
“The U.S. has known for decades that at least 8.5 billion proven barrels of oil sit off its Pacific, Atlantic and Gulf coasts, with the Interior Department estimating 86 billion barrels of undiscovered oil resources.
When Brazil made this find last November, did its legislature announce that, for fear of oil spills hitting Rio’s beaches or altering the climate, it would forgo exploiting these fields?
Of course it didn’t. Guilherme Estrella, director of exploration and production for the Brazilian oil company Petrobras, said, “It’s an extraordinary position for Brazil to be in.” Indeed it is.
At this point in time, is there another country on the face of the earth that would possess the oil and gas reserves held by the United States and refuse to exploit them? Only technical incompetence, as in Mexico, would hold anyone back.
But not us. We won’t drill.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121322872046666269.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Why will we not drill off shore?
WS & LT
I think the only thing I can support of CYNTHIA’s!!! is
“POWER TO THE PEEEOPLLLLLLLE”
WASHINGTON — A divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the Constitution to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts.
—————————-
Several here yesterday said that with Obama we would get better judges. Well if this is what you call better judges then elect Obama. If not then this is why McCain is a better choice than the most liberal senator ever.
———————
“Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion and was joined by Justices John Paul Stevens, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Dissenting were Chief Justice John Roberts, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.”
———————-
These are the judges that think captured prisoners of war have rights under our constitution.
These are the judges that think captured prisoners of war have rights under our constitution.
Evidence of the degradation of our fine country. If you listen to Econ, these are not POWs. If you give them the title of POW, then you also give them rights.
Exactly how long should the CIA/Military be allowed to hold an individual whilst having neither evidence nor prudence to do so other than giving that person the moniker of ‘Suspected Terrorist’?
How long would you like to be held in a foreign (let’s say a Mid-Eastern) country sans charges? Because you might be a terrorist.
I am saddened to see the divide that party lines have created in this country.
I’ll be perfectly honest with all of you. If those elected to represent us would uphold the constitution of this country, it would not matter who was elected to the Congress, Senate, or the Presidency. They would be shackled to the law of the land. The differences would be so minor that the impacts to our lives would hardly be felt.
The fact that some Americans are so apathetic to this idea is disturbing to say the least. I say that anyone trying to run for office that doesn’t uphold the law of the land should have no chance whatsoever. It appears that all we get now are people who do the exact opposite.
Please don’t let us be divided over our differences. This country belongs to us. Our Forefathers fought for the very thing that some of us so strongly support. If we can come together and support the original idea of America, I promise you that we will all be better off for generations.
The Constitution was written by those who studied the errors of the past. They studied money, philosophy, relegion, individual God-given rights, and sources of power. They learned from those lessons and created a great set of rules to follow for true prosperity, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness. They were not perfect men, but the wrote and almost flawless document.
If we stray from those very rules, we will fail like all civilizations be fore us. All you have to do to predict the future is to look to the past.
Come together everyone. This country belongs to us. Take it back!
These are the judges that think captured prisoners of war have rights under our constitution.
That sound pretty American to me. Course, I could be wrong.
“These are the judges that think captured prisoners of war have rights under our constitution.”
Like many, it was a 5-4 decision. The “decision” to install was a 5-4 vote, and the Republicans told us to get over it.
Well, the SCOTUS has ruled on Gitmo, so get over it.
OKOB. Do we replace David Souter, appointed by George H.W. Bush? Or do we replace John Paul Stevens, appointed by Gerald Ford?
Correct me if I’m wrong. Aren’t those two Republican Presidents?
>The books say it’s OK for Muslims to kill adulterers and converts
Have you read the Bible lately?<
The Old Testament is a valuable tool for
Christians to understand God’s moral law (5 of the 10 Commandments), and how your relationship with God affects everything in your life. But, you must understand that the OT was not written ABOUT Christians.. we did not even exist at the time. Christians are supposed to be “followers of Christ”, and therefore any interpretation of the Bible considered without the unconditional love, sacrifice and teachings of Jesus Christ is in fact without merit when it comes to the Christian life. And, in contrast, any apects of a life lived in willfull contrast to those same teachings cannot be considered Christian.
Thousands who earn $200,000+ avoid income tax
By Kevin McCoy, USA TODAY
Death is inevitable, but federal income taxes aren’t for an increased number of high-income earners.
New IRS statistics show 7,389 federal tax returns with $200,000 or more in adjusted gross income reported no federal income taxes in 2005. That’s a 161% jump from the 2,833 comparable returns filed in 2004.
Additionally, 4,224 of the over-$200,000 earners reported no worldwide income tax liability on their 2005 returns, the IRS data show. That represents a 75% increase from the 2,420 comparable returns filed in 2004.
The data are the most recent available from the IRS. It shows a rising number of high-income earners have avoided the alternative minimum tax, which was intended to ensure that tax shelters, deductions and loopholes wouldn’t exempt wealthy Americans from paying at least some federal income tax.
“It’s an interesting case study on how people find ways to avoid paying taxes,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior research associate and tax blog editor at The Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE2D61F3DF934A25755C0A96E948260
The New England offering of 5.5 million acres about 50 miles and more east and south of Cape Cod had been scheduled for February. Today’s action delayed at least six months the offering of about 3.5 million of the shallowest acres, Mr. Walker said.
The delay will enable the department to put together a committee to negotiate with the governors of the coastal New England states, who oppose the drilling as a danger to their fishing industries. ”We think we have made some progress” in forming such a group, Mr. Walker said.
To protect the shallow Georges Bank fishing grounds, the House subcommittee approved a ban on drilling in waters less than 400 meters, or 1,321 feet, deep. Mr. Walker said this would ”leave only the marginal areas” available for leasing and ”might leave us without a sale,” as happened once before when no one bid on the areas left after some prohibitions. Separate Sale for Florida Tracts
The Florida postponement involved 14 million acres in the eastern Gulf of Mexico north of the Florida Keys up to about Naples.
The area will be dropped from a scheduled offering of tracts in the eastern gulf scheduled for November and will be offered separately. The department announced no schedule for that second offering. In Tallahassee, The the office of Gov. Bob Martinez said that under today’s agreement it could not occur before next May.
In the meantime, two 14-member Federal-state committees will study oil spills and cleanup in the gulf.
It was the second deletion of substantial acreage off Florida in an attempt to satisfy the state. Mr. Hodel ruled the areas around the Keys off limits in March.
Oh, ye Libertarians –
No offense intended, really; although you’re well within your rights to consider it that way.
Your enthusiasm seems genuine and seeing you advocate all Libertarian-y cant and cliches and plans “to start somewhere!” and build from the grassroots into Libertarian Paradise is beguiling to observe.
But this ain’t my first rodeo. I’ve seen wildly idealistic Libertarians cheering “this is the year to begin the revolution!” or somesuch every election cycle for thirty years. And it’s always been the same thing. “The real Constitution!” “No taxes; only tariffs!” “No standing army!” “
Three-fifths of a human!” “Legal weed and no helmet laws!”Ron Paul’s been running on the same issues he was twenty years ago as the Libertarian Party presidential candidate and the only-est way his polling numbers ever got into single digits was when he ran as a Republican.
The Libertarian Party is literally an anachronism; i.e., “out of touch with time.” It’s the ultimate anachronism since it’s out of time, all the time; always has been, always will.
There’s two reasons for this:
1) Some of your ideas make sense,
and
2) Some of your ideas might work.
Unfortunately, none of your ideas are both.
Never have been, never will.
The Libertarian Party’s core is a bunch of black-t-shirted-but mellowed-out ZZ Top look-alikes who’re living on the insurance settlement from the bike wreck or preppie trust-fund babies whose daddies got their coke-possession charges expunged from the records so they could get a gig at the Cato Institute.
Each election cycle the inner-circle of the Libertarian Party picks an issue or conjures a a new slogan to convert underemployed and over-idealistic high-school grads. They flock to the Libertarian Party as if it were a middle-school “I Gave My Word to Stop at Third” abstinence/t-shirt-giveaway down in the Lutheran Church basement.*
* Abstinence Pledges are the #1 reason today’s high school guys are getting way more blow-jobs than in our day. And reports indicate kids are into anal sex just so the female pledge-ee can keep an intact maidenhead (at least ’til after the Junior Prom).
And when election day comes, as it does to all men, and these newly-minted Libertarian recruits realize they represent exactly one-half-of-one-percent of the people of America, they go out and buy a stars-and-bars bumpersticker and slap it on the Torino (thereby strengthening its rusted-out structural integrity)… or winder on St. Barts (depending on what kind of libertarian you are).
Terrorist fist Jab ??????????
Perhaps feeling the ratings heat, Fox News is making changes to its afternoon lineup.
TVNewser reports that E.D. Hill, who hosts “America’s Pulse” — and who raised many eyebrows this week after calling Barack and Michelle Obama’s fist-pound a “terrorist fist jab” — has lost her show:
America’s Pulse anchored by E.D. Hill goes away, but Hill stays with the network in a capacity to be determined. Hill has been with FNC since 1998. She co-anchored Fox & Friends for several years before moving to the 11amET hour, then launching America’s Pulse.
Then, if peaceful, grassroots, from within revolution is quaint and trite. Then how about major blood puddles in our streets?
The Libertarian base is comprised of people, clued-in and defenders of what the country was founded upon. I can’t think of anything the other two parties stand for that is decent.
I have no problem with giving prisoners rights. They have no rights under our constitution though. They aren’t even legitimate prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.
One is question was BinLadens driver. Should he have the same rights we do. Sorry, I don’t think so.
Someone mentioned being incarcerated in a foreign country – well look at how our captured countrymen have been treated. Then look at how prisoners have been treated at Gitmo. See the difference. At least they still have their heads attached. They are fed food in holding with their religions faith, given prayer rugs, furnished Korans – and contray to the oft published but not true story – none of their religious books have been flushed.
Bad judges come from both sides of the aisle but most frequently from the far left where the rewriting of the constitution takes place.
In an effort to test the possibilities of compromise, may we attempt an adult discussion where no one needs to be wrong? An exchange of opinions. I’m willing to learn from everyone else.
Do you see issues of morality being part of government, at any level?
I question whether the UNITED States of America can survive if we make pockets where such and such is legal while same remains illegal in another pocket (ie, state’s rights).
Are the “moral” issues what will keep us divided and unable to find compromise?
Let’s not even go to the biggies for this test of our abilities.
Let’s consider prayer in public schools.
The founders of our country fought and died for freedom to worship as they chose. When we endorse ONE religion aren’t we then a theocracy? Or do we compromise and respect our diversity therefore keeping prayer for church and home and privately-funded religious schools?
OK, I’ve given my opinion and would like to hear yours. I certainly don’t think my opinions are superior or inferior, but different than someone else may hold as their truth. Can we work out those differences?
lindainks55,
Prayer in school is a great thing. The problem arises with the public (i.e. state run) part.
I’ll stop with that rather than all but changing the subject.
Linda,
I don’t think that the school should stop students from praying. As long as they are not disruptive to the class. Some may take that to the extreme and say that seeing a student praying is disruptive. I’m quite sick of the PC game. If, on their own free time, a student chooses to pray to God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, or whomever, if witnessing this disturbs you, move on.
I really miss the opening prayer at football games. All week the kids are revved up to kick the snot out of so-and-so. The pep-rally and finally game night. The stadium is crammed, the cheer leaders cheering, the parents and fans excitedly milling about. The nation anthem is played, and now no prayer.
The prayers I heard we very general. They prayed for the safety of both teams. I found nothing wrong with this. Some PC folks did. Now there is no opening prayer. The prayer asked for safety and civility and, at least to me, put things in a little perspective.
My $0.02.
P.S. As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school :-)
Monkey: You keep changing our definition. Stick to your first one; Middle aged IT cranks who smoke weed and hate taxes. At least it’s funny.
The only reason why people criticize any 3rd party is because one hasn’t won yet. But you live in Kansas, The buckle of the Bible Belt. It will go red no matter what.
It’s the ideas of the libertarian party that matter. It’s these ideas that cause John McCain to take heed about associating with John Hagee.
Linda-
The question is not as simple as you would wish. You see, the first amendment also prohibits the federal government from preventing the free excercise of religion. Something often forgottten today. In the founding fathers day, as I recall, prayer in schools was a given….so, was it unconstitional then, in their minds? and they just tolerated it? Or was it even a thought, being standard practice of the day?
I believe in the separation of the church and state. I also believe that prinicple is often take waaay too far. Because it ignores the free excercise clause. My opinion.
As for prayer in schools. I really don;t care. I neither think that school administrators ought to be offering prayer, but neither do I think that it is as oppressive as some would like to make it. I say, stop all prayers by school officials, or allow school officials of all religions, or none, to offer up prayer or meditations of their own; or: just stop them all together. Nobody has time for the former. But, if a student offers up a prayer, and a staff member attends, neither should that staff member be reprimanded. Remember, the first amendment also has a free excercise clause
Speaking on high from his own petard, “okobserver” proclaims –
“I have no problem with giving prisoners rights. They have no rights under our constitution though.”
As real conservatives taught me, the Constitution of the United States of America doesn’t bestow rights. Rights are, by definition, a given. The Constitution exists to limit government’s power to take those rights (which everyone is born with) away.
If you let the government take away some people’s rights, you’re ceding it the power to take away anybody’s rights.
For those of you sick of political correctness, I feel compelled to suggest to easy reads:
“The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism”
“The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History”
Both of these books are excellent reads. They are easy to read, not to long, and provide you with an arsenal of facts.
I warn you that they may be full of facts that you don’t want to hear, or were never ever taught in our schooling systems.
Diversification of knowledge doesn’t just work in the stock market.
When it comes to prayer, it is really quite simple – if the entity is taxpayer funded, all activities should be strictly secular.
So WS what about ‘the exercise thereof’. Does your right to not have prayer trump my right to pray? Not led by a paid leader but by a common attender.
And individual prayer in school – fine by me – happens all the time.
When Paul, the Pimple-faced Junior approaches Heather, the Hot Sophomore for a date, do you think he says a prayer first?
You’re damned right he does.
Go for it, Paul, you’ll need all the help you can get.
(And for the “Pauls” out there – that was NOT directed at you.)
(Heathers, too.)
http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/letter_20030207.html
Secretary’s Letter on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools
February 7, 2003
This seems to tell me that prayer is neither prohibited (during noninstructional time) nor mandatory for any student. Sounds fair enough to me.
I knew it wasn’t simple, lj. But it’s more simple than some of the other moral issues. Or maybe, I already know we haven’t indicated we’re capable of compromise on those biggies. ;-)
So, several of us agree that public school students who want to pray (and there will be tests!) should be allowed to pray in their way, to whoever it is they pray to, as long as its not disruptive. We seem to all be in agreement that we have the right to worship as we choose. And if we accept that right, we probably don’t have time to teach the three R’s and lead / sanction a prayer in every religion.
Maybe we’ve struck the proper compromise on this one even though some still complain? Or is it not settled because some still complain?
Looks like I misused the word “to” twice in my last post. My apologies.
“LLTVET” chastises me with –
“Monkey: You keep changing our definition. Stick to your first one; Middle aged IT cranks who smoke weed and hate taxes.”
You’re right. I was unclear. I meant to describe the inner-circle of Libertarian Party policy making and the quadrennial recruits in the post upthread.
Didn’t mean to leave out you longterm Libertarian Party cranks.
“Not led by a paid leader but by a common attender.”
Are you going to allow prayer led by EVERYONE? Muslim, Jews, Wiccan, Satanists, etc?
No.
That is the rub.
Linda,
I think you are correct, but…
What about a short prayer before ball games? Just asking for civility and safety? Is that a deal breaker?
“Is that a deal breaker?”
Nope. Extracurricular activities are voluntary – you don’t have to attend. So long as the prayer is not religion specific, it’s fine by me.
Sorry to toss my $0.02 in, Linda, but it struck a chord.
“SolDevVB” posits –
“What about a short prayer before ball games? Just asking for civility and safety?”
Asking whom?
The seperation of church and state strenghens religion, too. Countries where there is a state sponsored demonination usually have pretty low church participation – England being the best example of that.
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer
The guy who is behind the above organization is Barry Lynn who used to be on the radio talk show that featured Paul Buchanan (the guy who gave the “family values” speech at the ‘92 Republican convention). The speech inspired the “Hate is not a family valute” bumper stickers.
So, if a student offers up a religion specific prayer, is that okay? I presume you are stating staff, but I want to be clear. And, how does prohibiting such NOT violate the COnstitutional provision of free excercise of of religion?
More on “SolDevVB’s” proposal –
“…a short prayer before ball games? Just asking for civility and safety?”
Then you are you praying to? God? Or to the crowd?
“The seperation of church and state strenghens religion, too.”
In fact, wasn;t that the major point of the Danbury letter that is so often cited as the “wall between church and state?
““What about a short prayer before ball games? Just asking for civility and safety?”
Asking whom?”
God, whatever you presume God to be.
Another week another McCain flip-flop. The latest flip is McCain’s position on the estate tax. First he agreed that it was a great idea and shouldn’t be repealed. Now that the “maverick” bravely stood against his own position and says it should be repealed.
BTW, McCain also stated that Putin is the President of Germany. Those of you who thought Putin led Russia must now revise your documents. McCain is such a maverick, he doesn’t need facts.
Thanks Monkey. Now besides the fact that libertarians have yet to elect a dog catcher, what is wrong with libertarian ideas?
You say it is an anachronism. It’s the first example of bipartisanism taking an economically conservative and socially liberal agenda. Considering the unpopularity of partisan bickering. I would hardly consider it out of time.
MP. Where is the Putin statement? I have to stay the skeptic. But for some reason, I am inclined to believe that statement about Putin.
Lindda points out >>>>
“The prayer asked for safety and civility and, at least to me, put things in a little perspective.”
I have seen this same kind of thing accomplished very nicely, by all affirming a “sporsmanship pledge” immediately following the National Anthem, and just prior to kick off…
It includes the players, coaches, cheer leaders, and fans… And it does NOT include a “prayer” to anybody’s deity…
Works out pretty neat…
Isnt prayer at most pointless at at best something that makes the prayer feel important.
“littlejohn” responds to –
Asking whom?
with –
“God, whatever you presume God to be.”
So if a pre-game prayer leader were to not belive in God, you’d be okay with, say –
“Dear nobody in particular and probably a figment of peoples’ imaginations, grant us…..?”
But this isn’t about atheists. If I’m an orthodox believer of pre-destination, I believe it to be an affront to ask for civility or safety if “God” has already determined horrible injuries and a riot in the stands.
Why can’t you just begin a high school football game with the PA announcer saying, “Let’s all hope everyone behaves and nobody gets hurt”?
No “…in Jesus’ name…” or bowing toward Mecca, or animal sacrifice required.
Looks like monkey proves Linda’s original point. Way to go.
Gonna be hard!
See, I read Sol’s, “Is that a deal breaker?” as something he would like, but with complete recognition that it didn’t please everyone so he said it tongue in cheek.
I do want to point out that several of us have voiced our opinions and none of us have called anyone stupid or ill informed (or worse!).
That’s a start!
When we get to the point where we acknowledge our differences, acknowledge that people can read the same words and come to different conclusions, without needing someone to be wrong and without feeling superior or inferior we’ve made progress!
I suppose we better practice before we tackle abortion or gay marriage. ;-)
It is those moral issues that will keep us from compromise.
I’ll bet we could agree on financial issues more easily and we have broad disagreements in how monies should be spent.
As long as we always remember this country allows us to have our differences, and we protect those freedoms together we’re better off than others!
“So, if a student offers up a religion specific prayer, is that okay?”
No, not unless you are going to allow ALL students from every persuasion to offer a prayer.
Do we really want that to happen?
““Dear nobody in particular and probably a figment of peoples’ imaginations, grant us…..?””
NO, I probably wouldn’t. Why? because of the “probably a figment of people’s imaginaitons” part. Seems a bit like taking a shot at others, doesn;t it? THe rest, sure, why not? ALthough it would seem pointless, but I don;t care.
“No “…in Jesus’ name…” or bowing toward Mecca, or animal sacrifice required.”
I would not require any of that. THe difference is, I would not prevent people from freely excercising their religion by offering a prayer to whom they wish. Or, in order to save time if more than a few wished to offer, they could rotate, or the school could just implement a moment of silence. WHy not?
We would run out of time to teach those three R’s by the time all the prayers were offered.
I think the meeting at the flag pole idea we’ve seen in recent years is a good one. Students outside school hours by choice…
““So, if a student offers up a religion specific prayer, is that okay?”
No, not unless you are going to allow ALL students from every persuasion to offer a prayer.
Do we really want that to happen”
so, you are not going to allow students to freely excerise their religion?
Abortion and gay marriage – State’s decision, just like California is doing.
Really, I think a moment of silence is easier to manage, and does the purpose. Those who wish to reflect on the upcoming…… can do so, those who wish to pray to some deity can do so, and those who wish to just ignore the whole thing can do so, maintaing silence while they think about their toenails, or whatever.
As Tom Paine wrote, praying to a God who already has a plan is a bit pointless, right? If, according to Fundies, God “has a plan”, no amount of praying will change that plan. I suppose you could stretch it and say that , “God knew you were going to pray because he planned that prayer at that specific time in that specific circumstance”.
Redundant…like modern Christian-ism.
Sol, on the subject of state’s rights, how do we remain the UNITED States of America?
Pretty strong feelings on both sides of all the moral issues. Do you think if such and such were made illegal in all but one state, the people who feel fervently it shouldn’t ever be legal would live in one of the 49 states and leave the other alone?
“so, you are not going to allow students to freely excerise their religion?”
Individually – no issue – go for it.
To address an audience – all or none.
When you turn the mike on, you need to respect the beliefs of all, not just the “chosen ones.”
“Pleefer
Posted June 12, 2008 at 1:37 pm | Permalink
As Tom Paine wrote, praying to a God who already has a plan is a bit pointless, right? If, according to Fundies, God “has a plan”, no amount of praying will change that plan”
I have included those who don;t believe in the above. Why limit the discussion of the pointlessness or not pointlessness of it to the “fundies” position. Besides, whether it is pointless or not, isn;t there a Constitutional protection about the free excercise of religion?
That’s how I see it too, wsc. And, one step further — no public school can endorse or sanction any prayer of any specific religion unless they endorse and sanction all.
And, with that, I must get busy!
Thank you, all of you, for a discussion of ideas and opinions where no one needed to be wrong.
Linda,
Pretty extreme model, but I get your point. I think that if the State’s made their own decisions that that might make a person more or less likely to want to move (from) there. If your stance is so strong on gay marriage that you want to leave the state, then California will be a good example. The majority of the people (who voted) decided they did not want gay marriage. The Courts saw otherwise. Let’s see how this pans out. Will those that adamantly oppose move away? Will folks like Farmie who ardently support it flock there to live? As violently as we argue each side, when it comes down to it…
This country was not founded to live under a strict government. It was always supposed to be a loose organization of the several states. What we have now is kinda close to why the framers broke from England in the first place.
“When you turn the mike on, you need to respect the beliefs of all, not just the “chosen ones.””
SO, their free excericse of religion, by law, must be silenced? In order to not be “disrepctful?”
SOrry, in theory I don;t buy it. As a practical matter, as stated above, a moment of silence is much easier to accomodate and manage.
“no public school can endorse or sanction any prayer of any specific religion unless they endorse and sanction all.”
Agreed, which is why I do not push for prayer in schools.
Ya suckered me into staying for ONE more post, Sol.
I knew it was an extreme model. Don’t you think the framers of our Constitution had to think of all the possibilities. Don’t you think they did a remarkable job, considering?
And, I think the most fervent would live in the ONE state trying to affect change!
“no public school can endorse or sanction any prayer of any specific religion unless they endorse and sanction all.”
Agreed, which is why I do not push for prayer in schools. toomessy, and too time consuming. Not the purpose of the school.
“SO, their free excericse of religion, by law, must be silenced?”
How is their “free exercise” being denied?
By refusing them a microphone to broadcast their prayer?
Anyone can pray whenever they want – no one is denying them that right – just don’t force everyone to participate.
By the way, Jesus wasn’t too keen on public prayer.
Look it up.
And, I think the most fervent would live in the ONE state trying to affect change!
Agreed.
Don’t you think the framers of our Constitution had to think of all the possibilities. Don’t you think they did a remarkable job, considering?
Agreed. I just don’t agree with that being a living breathing document. Too much flexibility leads to omnipotence.
WS,
Remember a ways back the controversy over the Muslim foot baths at a college or two? What would be your compromise?
“Anyone can pray whenever they want – no one is denying them that right – just don’t force everyone to participate”
By allowing a person a microphone is not “forcing everyone” to participate.
So how small a group? Just themselves. How about 2 or three? A basketball team? A football team? WHat is your personal limit.
ANd you might notice, I didn;t say anything about Jesus, or praying to Jesus, now did I?
Before I realized my life’s ambition of being a bum, I was Director of Human Resources for a manufacturing company. Among my duties was the writing of employee manuals. I’m not trying to compare employee manuals to the Constitution except in this way — once it was written down someone tried hard to figure out how to get around it!
Religions should be protected. All religions. And any practices that religion has should be protected. ANY practice.
Besides, God will protect the “right” religion.
“ANd you might notice, I didn;t say anything about Jesus, or praying to Jesus, now did I?”
Nope, but I do know that you are a Christian, LJ, so I think my point was relevant – but understand that it was not a slam on Christians or a flame.
“By allowing a person a microphone is not “forcing everyone” to participate.”
Ah, how are they going to avoid participating if the prayer is broadcast?
As for individual groups – fine – just make sure that their is no disagreement or intimidation of those that do not want to participate and it is not a school or government entity sponsored prayer.
someone tried hard to figure out how to get around it!
Amen. As long as there are politicians and/or lawyers…
“littlejohn” is coming around, with –
“I would not prevent people from freely excercising their religion by offering a prayer to whom they wish.”
Nor would I.
I’m just saying that no one has a right to have their prayers to whomever they want to pray to broadcast over a tax-payer-purchased public address system.
And no one prevents every player, every fan, every coach from addressing whatever they believe “God” to be.
Stopping all proceedings to hear one person pray is as senseless as passing the PA microphone through the stands so we all are forced to listen to everyone else’s prayer: “…and God bless Nana, Fluffy, and Bowser… and help the Bluebirds win this T-ball game….”
Didn’t it used to be all about a personal relationship with God, anyway? Why take it public?
There are simply some areas of society and life where institutionalized religion is out of place.
Back in the 80s, the priest/principal of Bishop Carrol High School ordered his basketball coach to forbid his players from crossing themselves before a free throw… unless they had an 80%-or-better average from the line.
That took prayer out of the realm of a spiritual moments and reduced it to a marketing opportunity.
Which is, bottom line, what this entire issue has become for evangelical CONservatives.
ANY practice.
Live sacrifice?
“ANY practice.”
So, you would okay with Islamic prayers in school events?
How about Wiccan?
Satanic?
Buddhist?
Hindu?
Scientology?
Atheism?
How long should the opening ceremonies last?
WS,
In case you missed it upthread, what would be your comprimise on the Muslim foot baths?
But then “littlejohn” come up with –
“SO, their free excericse of religion, by law, must be silenced?”
Who are you praying to? “God?” Or the crowd?
Betcha your God hears every prayer, however you have it figured out.
If you’re praying to your God, you probably don’t need to have the crowd hear it.
If you’re praying to the crowd, God probably wouldn’t bother with it.
M-H-”Which is, bottom line, what this entire issue has become for evangelical CONservatives.”
It has become a Muslim issue lately…foot baths, swimming practice, school sports, class rooms, airplanes, ect….They appear to be a little demanding lately, not really seeing much of this RR Christians causing all the problems.
Let’s not forget the multitude of Native American sects that deserve consideration, as well as Deists such as me and several of my children.
Don’t forget the Jews and followers of Confucius and the blended religion of most Japanese.
So again WS, I have to ask what your comprimise on foot baths woud be.
Protect the Muslims, burn the Christians. Is that your line MonkeyHawk? I see the left hatred for Christians, but they stick up for other religions as if they can’t be questioned. That must be unconfortable.
Schools have the little darlings for 12 years. During this time the state attempts to prepare the kiddies for meaningful and productive work.
The churches can take care of their souls during off school hours, weekends and summer breaks. After age 18 when they legally have a choice they can spend 24/7 in pursuit of their spiritual needs.
By preparing the children for work the state lessens the possibility that it will assume the responsibilty for the care of the new adult.
There are ample opportunities to feed ones soul. Why should the state be responsible for prayer or religious education.
You all made my point. Religion is a stupid thing, but it pays well. If the sacrifice was a willing participant, then why not? If not, then it’s murder. And if there is a prayer before anything, then all religions should have a moment, no matter how long it would take. Just to protect the freedom of religion. I think that was a folly of our Founding Fathers, it should have been freedom from religion.
“In case you missed it upthread, what would be your comprimise on the Muslim foot baths?”
I am only vaguely familiar with Muslim foot baths – terrible smart ass comments come to mind – but I do not believe that public entities need to accommodate every religious consideration. Where do you draw the line?
If Ned the Nudist, Junior at Nubbie High wants to walk around naked, should we accommodate his “religion?” And when his religious beliefs conflict with those of Muhammad the Muslim, Sophomore, who wins that debate?
Secular schools – don’t like it – go to a private school.
That goes for you, too, Ned.
If the sacrifice was a willing participant, then why not?
How can you tell if a dog is willing to be sacrificed?
Sorry for my delayed response, Mr. Dev VB. I have babysitting duty this afternoon – my daughter is at the doctor for some tests – so my focus is distracted by a 19 month old terror and a demanding 8 year old.
If Ned Nickie the Nudist, …
I’d have to say I’m “down with that”.
Ned? Not so much!!!
Heheheheh. He barks once for yes and two for no. Easy.
SolDevVB
Posted June 12, 2008 at 2:18 pm | Permalink
If the sacrifice was a willing participant, then why not?
How can you tell if a dog is willing to be sacrificed
—–
He says “Rooow-K Shaggy!”
Hope your daughter brings home good news.
“Hope your daughter brings home good news.”
She has a severe case of pregnant that the doctors and medical experts say she won’t get over until November.
LMAO.
Is that contagious? Congratulations.
BTW, I think Linda started something. We touched of on a usually explosive topic and civility has maintained. Outstanding Linda. Hope you read this later.
I might notice, I few key players on the topic of religion are missing – from both sides. Wonder how much that has to do with it…
touched *off*
VET — I mentioned upthread a practice I have seen called a “Sportsmanship Pledge” Did you by chance catch that one??
My new grandcritter, gender to be determined today (?) was not a planned baby.
I have the names of my children and grandchildren tattooed on a scroll wrapped around roses on my right bicep.
I suggested “Oops!” or “Tiebreaker” for a name.
The kids thought “Damn, we were just having fun and didn’t mean this to happen!” would work.
Unfortunately, that ain’t gonna fit on a tattoo……………………….
Ah, they’ll probably just settle for a noble sounding name like “William” or “Stephenson” or “Clark.”
That is, if it is a boy.
Boring.
“ANTI” spews –
“Protect the Muslims, burn the Christians. Is that your line MonkeyHawk? I see the left hatred for Christians, but they stick up for other religions…”
See, that’s where you’re wrong.
If you’ll go back and read my posts you’ll see that I’m merely saying there are some elements in life where ones religious beliefs just don’t enter the equation.
Or shouldn’t.
I don’t give dibs to Jews and reject Christians; I don’t think the Muslims are any sillier than the Mormons. I’m probably not likely to become a porch front Jehovah’s Witness, but don’t think I’ll stop you. Pray to whomever you want for whatever you want; if it works for you, solid.
And if it works for you, tell your friends. At every opportunity you can find. Just don’t do it on the public’s tab.
By the way – Grandparent Babysitters – what is up with the “pooping schedule” of toddlers?
He pooped three minutes after they left and he just pooped again, three minutes before they are expected home.
What up with that?
I’d probably attend a high school football game that had a moment of prayer before the game… and the presiding priest were an Aztec.
Hell, in Texas the high school football crowd would probably approve of a virgin sacrifice (”At least the cheerleaders are safe!”) as long as their team won.
MH-”And if it works for you, tell your friends. At every opportunity you can find. Just don’t do it on the public’s tab.”
—–
I strongly agree.
Hell, in Texas the high school football crowd would probably approve of a virgin sacrifice (”At least the cheerleaders are safe!”) as long as their team won.
And just where would you find one?
as far as prayer in school, how about we ask that all the players bow down on a prayer rug towards mecca 5 times during the games? Or maybe they can be asked to wear a yamulka under the helmets?
No? Gee, why not?
Prayer should NEVER be included in public taxpayer run entities that are used by every religion. Our constitution forbids a national religion, despite who has the majority. There is good reason for that.
As long as you all think you’re praying to the Christian God, you seem to get all bent out of shape about the prayer being forbidden. But holy hen if they tried to install another religion’s prayer.
You all need to be a minority religion for awhile to get it.
In a related story…I was about town earlier this week, and saw a child sporting a tee shirt about a Church camp…which was all good and fine until he turned around..and written on the top line of sponsors was…MY School board.
So MY TAX DOLLARS are sponsoring a bible camp? WTF?
I can’t believe nobody is talking about the tornados that hopped across and directly hit many Kansas towns. I’m ok thanks, no damage.
If you travel to Salina, you will see road signs that look like crazy straws up the interstate.
Chapman has been devistated. There is AWESOME video of Kansas State University’s camera and news studio taking a direct hit.
and of course, two deaths. So sad that so many are homeless in our state tonight, and some have lost loved ones.
If you all remember, GSSheridan’s daughter was actually caught in the twister in her car. She’s thankfully fine.
Some words conservatives use and their translations:
Soros: It means scary Jew. The PC police have deemed open anti-semitism bad, so this is a dog whistle phrase to say it “politely.” Amusingly George Soros isn’t Jewish.
anti-semite: A person who opposes aspects of Israeli foreign policy generally supported by the conservative Likud party.
Muslim: This only refers to violent extremists who claim to be Muslim.
Christian: This never refers to violent extremists who claim to be Christian.
American: Whites.
Regular Americans: White males.
Illegal immigrants: Non-whites.
Socialized medicine: A system where the state determines all aspects of your medical care without your consent. A bad thing. As an aside, it doesn’t exist anywhere on the planet… but be afraid!
Pro life: A belief that the state should determine one aspect of your medical care without your consent. A good thing – it only applies to women (see: Regular Americans).
Fiscal conservatism: A belief, with no historical basis, that conservatives are good with money.
Monkeyhawk
Posted June 12, 2008 at 2:07 pm | Permalink
But then “littlejohn” come up with –
“SO, their free excericse of religion, by law, must be silenced?”
Who are you praying to? “God?” Or the crowd?
Betcha your God hears every prayer, however you have it figured out.
If you’re praying to your God, you probably don’t need to have the crowd hear it.
If you’re praying to the crowd, God probably wouldn’t bother with it.
***********************************************
I didn’t say a word about theology, now did I? You are the one you wants to bring into the discussion.
Again, the First Amendment has two parts, one of which is prohibiting thestablishment of religion, another is allowing the free excercise thereof.
And again, in the multicultural country that the United States has become, it is impractical to go the “whole hog” routine on prayer, so none is much easier. It doesn’t necessarily answer the Constitutional question, but I can be right (as in walking in a pedestrian zone in front of a car) and still be dead (impractical). I have stated as much, several times.
“Didn’t it used to be all about a personal relationship with God, anyway? Why take it public?”
Depends. WHich religion is soley focused on a personal relationship without public prayers?
“There are simply some areas of society and life where institutionalized religion is out of place.”
I didn;t know prayer was instituionalized religion
”
So, you would okay with Islamic prayers in school events? ***********Sure
How about Wiccan? *****************Sure
Satanic? ***** I’ve been told there is no such thing, right here on this blog
Buddhist? ***********sure
Hindu? *******************
Scientology? *************none that I know of
Atheism? **************again, none that I kmow of
Again, because of practicality, it is just simpler to say none offreed. I prefer a moment of silence. People can at least be silent for a few moments. WHo cares what they are thinking. I don;t care.
The only ones getting in the least bent out of shape are one or two against it. I see no flames thrown by those not oppoosed to it. Of course, there are those that are not here. ANyway, out for the night. Mostly good points, Monkeyhawk, I don;t know why you want to put my nic in quotation marks, but feel free to go right ahead.
Night all
you forgot one Poltical Mama:
Support the troops = Agree with the president
Dear Wingnuts–particularly Franklin,
Looks like the Supreme Court doesn’t exactly agree that Habeas Corpus doesn’t apply to “enemy noncombatants.”
“WASHINGTON — Foreign terrorism suspects held at the Guantánamo Bay naval base in Cuba have constitutional rights to challenge their detention there in United States courts, the Supreme Court ruled, 5 to 4, on Thursday in a historic decision on the balance between personal liberties and national security.
‘The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote for the court.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/washington/12cnd-gitmo.html?hp
Glad to see that the Supremes aren’t buying what Bushco is selling. Also glad to see that Justice Anthony Kennedy didn’t join that batshit crazy, Imperial Presidency wing of Alito, Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas.
The fact that this obvious, obvious decision was only 5-4 and not 6-3 or 7-2 is the only argument anyone needs for why Barack Obama needs to be the next President of the United States.
We don’t need any more fair-weather friends of, much less outright enemies of, the Constitution, either on the Supreme Court, or in the White House.
I’d like to read the dissenting opinion. I want to know what kind of bs excuses those neocon judges could possibly come up with to defecate on the consitution.
The prayers I heard we very general. They prayed for the safety of both teams. I found nothing wrong with this.
Sol, no offense to you or anyone else here, but who were the prayers directed to? Did they begin, “God, our Father?” or in some other way.
That’s where the problem begins and can and did grow from. That sort of prayer leaves those out who don’t follow the religion that the prayer portrays. It also is an attempt to tell others that any other religion or belief is not acceptable.
There will always be prayer in school, as long as there are tests.
The above is a joke to some, but is carries truth. As long as my prayer is silent, there’s no reason for concern. But once I start giving a name to a diety, I am trampling on the beliefs of others.
All of this could be taken care of by simple asking everyone to bow their head (or raise it, if that’s the habit of some) for a moment of silent prayer or reflection. Easily done and treads on no one’s toes.
Back in the 80’s the Girl Scouts revised the Girl Scout Promise to encompass all religions and beliefs, and, as a GS leader at the time, I was happy to see it done.
Here’s the Promise, straight from the GS website. The asterick is also included on the webpage.
The Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
* The word “God” can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one’s spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word “God” with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.
BTW, Girls Scouts is an international group.
Watch this, warning, big file but worth it.
The next time you’re feeling like life sucks remember this guy.
He’s one heck of a man, not asking anything of anybody, and doesn’t need a nanny government giving him hand outs even though he sure qualifies in my book.
http://www.surkes.citymaker.com/f/claydyer_espn2.wmv
Satanic? ***** I’ve been told there is no such thing, right here on this blog
No such thing as what? Satanism or Satan?
Let’s just deal with the first, because the second is irrelevant in this discussion.
Satanism does exist, but LaVey Satanism is as far from the type you’re thinking of as black is to white. It’s an interesting belief, although not one I follow, just for the record. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism
People really should check out other religions, before jumping to conclusions. (Not saying YOU are.) It might bring about more tolerance, and that’s something we can all have more of with no harm to anyone.
Amazing number of storms, tornadoes and flooding in Kansas Iowa Nebraska and places downstream are in danger of flooding —– it’s these events but a strain on the Red Cross and other agencies that attempt to help in these disasters —- consider donating a pint of blood — a couple of schekles to help our neighbors in need ….
From Todd Tiahrt’s office
Dear American Tanker Supporter,
Today the U.S. Air Force has admitted to errors in calculating the life cycle costs of the competing aerial refueling tanker contract bids between Boeing and the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) as reported by Reuters.
I am glad the Air Force is finally taking responsibility for the mistakes in this contract. This comes as no surprise— we have been saying for months now that errors had to be present in this contract award. This is strong evidence that the tanker contract should be re-competed under a fair acquisition process that gives American workers a fair opportunity.
The $34 million mistake that the Air Force now admits could be as large as a $30 billion discrepancy, making the American tanker significantly less costly and the obvious choice for the Air Force.
This process is flawed and the analysis does not pass the common-sense test. Americans were outraged at outsourcing our national security, now we have an opportunity to correct this injustice by re-competing the contract on a level playing field. Many more questions still exist and Americans want and deserve answers.
To read the full story from Reuters, click here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7581555
L J says >>>>
“Again, the First Amendment has two parts, one of which is prohibiting thestablishment of religion, another is allowing the free excercise thereof.”
“Depends. WHich religion is soley focused on a personal relationship without public prayers?”
========================================
L J — Take another look at the First Amendment… the religion part… “Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion… (This is NOT prohibiitng the establishment of religion… Explanation: The “establishment of religion” is akin to saying the “book seller establishment” or the “women’s clothing establishment” or the local “eating establishment” IOW, “establishment” means business of religion —- I think this is a fundamental problem with why this is such a misunderstood political football…
Now — the “free exercise thereof” — and your statement regarding “public prayers”
“Free exercise thereof” prohibits the government from restricting “religious establishments” from meeting in their meeting halls… It says nothing about exercising religion in the public marketplace… you know — like the hotdog vendor on the street corner…
The whole idea of “public prayers” seems to have a dual understanding… “Public prayers” in the house of worship would not be infringed upon by any type of government…
However, I do see that public prayers being said/exercised at the beginning of an athletic contest sponsored and paid for by an arm of the STate… Not so sure on that one…
Note also that Jesus seems to frown heavily on those who would pray on street corners (read, public places) as being sort of Show Offs — He says they have received their reward (being noticed??)
To be quite clear: IF students want to gather together to pray BEFORE or AFTER school hours… even on the campus of the school…. I have no argument with such pratices… I might prefer they meet in one of the “establishments” of religion… But I would not have a major breakdown if they wanted to gather at the flag pole for a morning prayer BEFORE school… or at same flag pole AFTER school….
At athletic events, I would MUCH prefer students, fans, players, coaches, referees, and cheer leaders, all join together in a Sportsmanship Pledge of fair play, and civility.
Thanks for reading.
‘Scientists Warn, Politicians Scorn’
http://www.desmogblog.com/scientists-warn-politicians-scorn
“The world’s leading scientists this week issued yet another statement urging immediate action on climate change. The latest call to action was authored by the Science Academies of all the G8 nations, as well as China, India, Brazil, Mexico, and South Africa.”
http://www.nationalacademies.org/includes/climatechangestatement.pdf
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular posted June 12, 2008 at 9:45 am
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=26955
“There are oil reserves in Alaska and offshore (on our own continental shelf) that, if they were brought online, could cut the price of oil back down to $40 per barrel.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Events
“Notable columnists include Ann Coulter and Robert Novak.”
If the U.S. had the huge oil reserves needed to force oil down to $40 a bbl (which it doesn’t) and we waited a few decades for that production to ramp up — OPEC would simply cut their production to force the price to go back up.
OPEC would then continue making high profits, and preserve more of their oil for the future.
And we would rapidly deplete our small oil reserves, and become more dependent on imported oil.
Where are the non-scientist cosmos peer-reviewed papers on Climatology?
Could it be that the name-calling, poster harassing cosmos has no qualification to discuss climate science other than hyper-linking?
Could it be that the non-scientist cosmos spews his non-expert knowledge with false premise?
Could it be that the name-calling, poster harassing McCluer has no qualification to discuss climate science other than hyper-linking?
Could it be that the non-scientist McCluer spews his non-expert knowledge with false premise?
That sword cuts both ways – if Cosmos is not qualified, neither are you McCluer.
‘Fight the Smears’
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular,
You have posted that E. G. Beck’s (bogus) CO2 claims are valid.
Where are Beck’s peer-reviewed papers re CO2?
Then cosmos should not be attacking me on my credibility now should he Clark?
It works both ways, now doesn’t it Clark.
Is it too late for a motorcade for b….? or are they saving that for……?
You fill in your favorite
“Then cosmos should not be attacking me on my credibility now should he Clark?”
So this means you are going to stop attacking Cosmos, right?
And don’t start with the “when they stop attacking me” meme.
Put on your big boy pants and get on with it.
Notice that cosmos fired out the first shot Clark.
I just posted an article, then cosmos comes out with his “multi-nic regular and E.G. Beck” tripe.
I never said btw, I endorsed E.G. Beck, I just posted the article.
But cosmos takes that as I wrote the article myself and endorse it.
cosmos does not know how to discuss anything without attacking other posters or their credibility.
And that’s a fact.
“Cosmos does not know how to discuss anything without attacking other posters or their credibility.”
And you do?
No Clark, I’m not discussing anything with you and you’re circular, repetitious, dig up the past argument style.
Everyone knows who you are and what you are. No one wants to discuss anything with you.
I categorize you in the same category as Chas.
That is, no one wants to discuss anything with you, because neither one of you do not know anything about mature discussion, just rationalizing and bullying or name-calling.
So Clark, go play with yourself now, that’s all you get from me on the matter.
“No Clark, I’m not discussing anything with you and you’re circular, repetitious, dig up the past argument style.”
What does “you are circular” mean?
And digging up the past – like yesterday “past?”
“No one wants to discuss anything with you.”
And you speak for everyone since what vote?
“No one wants to discuss anything with you.”
Actually, McCluer, I had quite a nice discussion regarding prayer in school upthread with Linda Inks, SolDevVB, Monkey Hawk, Steven Davis and quite a few others. There was no insults, flaming, accusations or attacks.
It was quite pleasant – glad you weren’t there to screw it up.
I am waiting for Regular and others to post their PROOF that Cosmos is a non-scientist… We see that accusation every day, but no proof to back it up…
Hey, folks, tornado WARNING SE Wichita – get off the computer and check your news or weather radio!
Well, I hope that you and yours are all safe and well. The WARNING for Sedgwick County has passed, but we are still under a watch.
Stay safe, ya’ll!
You too Clark!!
The radar I’m seeing (vs the game I wanted to see!) shows some more coming!
Chas
Posted June 12, 2008 at 8:15 pm | Permalink
I am waiting for Regular and others to post their PROOF that Cosmos is a non-scientist… We see that accusation every day, but no proof to back it up…
———————–
cosmos admitted he wasn’t a scientist and had a couple of college science courses. He mentioned this a long time ago when you “claim” to be here at the WE Blog. Everyone that was here saw that.
“cosmos admitted he wasn’t a scientist and had a couple of college science courses.”
So, pretty much the same as you………………
…the sound of Reguliar’s one brain cell spinning…
(chortles)
Why do we equate education with intelligence?
Isn’t someone who really researches and learns their topic both educated and intelligent?
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ posted June 12, 2008 at 7:08 pm
“I never said btw, I endorsed E.G. Beck, I just posted the article.”
———–
1) Then why did you say that you were inclined to believe Beck?
2) Who is your source of global CO2 above 400 ppm in the 1940’s, and earlier, if it wasn’t Beck and/or Jaworowski?
3) Why did you (incorrectly) suggest that fires during WWII would cause global CO2 to rise that high?
cosmos posted January 9, 2007 at 2:33 pm
blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/01/never_mind_that/#comment-123627
JM,
Okay, I understand — you prefer to believe people like Beck, instead of all the highly credentialed scientists at IPCC, NOAA, NASA, et al.
—–
JM Posted January 9, 2007 at 3:12 pm | Permalink
“Cosmos,
Yes I am incline to believe scientist like Beck who are an expert in their field (PaleoClimatology.)”
——
Another thread, later date,
Republican posted April 16, 2007 at 12:01 pm
blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/is_there_a_carb/#comment-253676
“By the way, the Consensus Scientists don’t use the early Flask Data available because it is inconvenient. The CO2 levels have not reached 400 ppm yet, but in the 1940s it was above 400ppm with lower temperatures. And before Cosmos or anyone says that the data is incorrect. The Consensus Scientists only examined 10 percent of the data and gave it a less than 1 percent on average inaccuracy rate.
That means by looking at the Flask Data prior to 1970, there were 13 occasions were CO2 was as high or higher than it is today with lower temperatures.”
———-
cosmos Posted April 16, 2007 at 12:40 pm | Permalink
“Dr. Huie,
Republican (like JM) believes the brain-dead, totally idiotic nonsense from E.G. Beck and/or Jaworowski.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/10/more_nonsense_about_co2.php
More details, http://timlambert.org/2005/01/hissink3/
“The measurements for 1865, for example, vary from 290 to 550 parts per million. It just isn’t possible for the CO2 concentration to change by that much in one year—the difference corresponds to about 500 billion tons of carbon which is about the same amount of carbon in all plants in the entire world.”
That page explains the procedure used to discard the inaccurate measurements.”
———
Republican Posted April 16, 2007 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
“It just isn’t possible for the CO2 concentration to change by that much in one year—the difference corresponds to about 500 billion tons of carbon which is about the same amount of carbon in all plants in the entire world.”Posted by: cosmos | April 16, 2007 at 12:40 PM
You mean like CO2 from Volcanoes or from the many burning fires during WWII? Or from huge fires like that in Yellowstone or the Amazonian Forest?
…
And Mr. Conspiracy Cosmos, I’m not this guy JM. But I forgot, you like conspiracies don’t you?”
Isn’t it possible to be educated outside the “formal” methods?
I have NO formal education. NONE. Took a test to gain a GED for a job that required a high school (or equivalent) education many years ago (almost 40!). I’m not saying this because I’m proud, actually I’m often ashamed of my lack of education. I would rather be able to say I had at least one (preferably several!) college degrees. I don’t.
But I study. I learn every day. I have much more to learn. I’m curious. I’m capable of learning. Took me awhile to get to this point of confidence and no one can take that away from me!
And ‘Regular’ lies, as usual — I never posted that I’m not a scientist, or how many college science courses I took.
I have not used my credentials to endorse the science done by AGW scientists.
But ‘Regular’ has claimed that his old Industrial Hygiene engineering degree qualifies him to question their science. For example, his claims that their global CO2 measurements are incorrect.
“And Mr. Conspiracy Cosmos, I’m not this guy JM.”
That is my favorite – I’m not JM – except when I am.
Ha!
Ah, come on, Cosmos, everyone KNOWS that being an Industrial Hygienist makes you a competent climatologist.
Just ask any Industrial Hygienist.
“Took a test to gain a GED for a job that required a high school”
Good on you, Linda Inks, good on you. That is a damned site more respectable than some phoney baloney know it all that tries to lord over everyone because he has a degree in cleaning bathrooms.
If the Celtics had played like this during the first three quarters they’d have it won by now! Trying to kill me, I tell ya!
Manon Jones, 18, a British student from Caernarfon, Gwynedd experienced heavy bleeding after an RU-486 abortion at 6 weeks gestation in June, 2005 and died a week later, after seizures and cardiac arrest, the 14th death attributed to the unsafe abortion drug.
Eight women in the USofA have died from the mifepristone abortion drug, one in Canada, now three in the UK, one in Sweden, and one in France.
- – -
The percentage of underweight babies born in the USofA, closely linked to premature births, has increased to its highest rate in 40 years, resulting in multiple, sometimes permanent health problems in infants, and higher infant mortality. The latest available federal data, from 2005, showed that 8.2% of U.S. babies were born at low birth weight, a level not seen since 1968. The rate of low-weight births is sharply higher for blacks (13.6%) than for whites (7.3%) or Hispanics (6.9%).
As usual, major media reports are deliberately spiking news of over 2 decades of studies showing abortion as a major risk factor in later premature births and underweight births, as more and more scarred American women of childbearing age have committed at least one past abortion, and the abortion rate among black women remains 3 times higher. Instead, major media reports focus on grasping at straws like Caesarian births and inadequate prenatal care as explanations for this tragedy.
- – -
A dead premature baby boy, born in the third trimester, was found in a portable toilet at a sand and gravel lot Wednesday in Weld County, CO about eight miles south of the Wyoming border.
- – -
Meth junkie Cheri Kostur, 30, of Lakewood, CO was charged with child abuse resulting in death. Her daughter, Kerra, was born alive January 21, 2007, and died a few minutes later in a toilet. Under a plea bargain, Kostur pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of child abuse resulting in serious bodily injury. The plea carries a 10- to 21-year prison sentence and five years of probation. Kostur previously pleaded guilty to unlawful use of methamphetamine. She will be sentenced July 25 on both charges.
Judge Lily Oeffler ruled Kostur’s illegal meth use prejudicial and inadmissible to the trial, although it likely caused or contributed to the death of the tiny abused victim, born with illegal drugs in her body. Kostur had also given birth to another baby prematurely, and had a third baby that tested positive for cocaine at birth, but this wasn’t revealed in the trial, either.
Whoo Hoo!
**sigh**
cosmos_originally
Posted June 12, 2008 at 10:21 pm | Permalink
And ‘Regular’ lies, as usual — I never posted that I’m not a scientist, or how many college science courses I took.
———————-
Liar.
You told everyone here on the blog that you have had a ‘couple’ of science courses and that’s it.
I remember it, because Ben came to your rescue and said something to the effect “His education doesn’t matter, he has a good grasp, blah blah.”
So, how about stopping the lieing cosmos.
lindainks55
Posted June 12, 2008 at 10:07 pm | Permalink
Why do we equate education with intelligence?
Isn’t someone who really researches and learns their topic both educated and intelligent?
———————
I don’t know lindainks, why don’t you ask cosmos who mocks my degrees daily. Or any of the other Libs who mock my education.
Then ask yourself if it doesn’t matter.
Only if someone has a different opinion, does it matter right lindainks?
cosmos even tries to discredit world class climatologists. He doesn’t give a shyt, he does it because he can get away with it here anonymously.
I bet he wouldn’t do that face to face with the scientists he tries to discredit.
cosmos is intellectually dishonest.
“who mocks my degrees”
ALL THREE of them!?!?!?
Wow!
That must suck.
Why don’t you LIST all three of your degrees for us, McCluer?
That way we can all bow down to your superior education.
Hell, why don’t you post documentation of your 161 IQ for us – so we can all bow to your superior intellect?
“Who mocks my degrees”
I’ve seen you. I say you don’t have any degrees.
IF you do? Why are you living off of the government? Why do you spend your days on the blog in many nics instead of being a mover and shaker somewhere other than in a chair in front of a monitor?
BlueJay, I bet you are makin’ a killing with all this rain!
The Dems are pushing a three month extension of unemployment benefits.
bush promises to veto it if it reaches his desk.
Huh.
He must not be thinking ahead? bush is gonna be unemployed come January or sooner. I guess he’ll get another figurehead job where he helps run another company into the ground. Or? Does he have apps out for another country to ruin?
Regular has a BS degree.
Hell, he should be awarded an honorary PH.D. in BS.
“Dang, I didn’t think that it was worth much more than two bits and a shave.
(Homage to the late great Bo Diddley.)”
——
He will be missed
Ole Bo invented the guitar “chug”….if not, he made it sound like he did!
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ posted
“Liar.
You told everyone here on the blog that you have had a ‘couple’ of science courses and that’s it.”
———–
Prove it… post that link.
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ posted,
“cosmos even tries to discredit world class climatologists. He doesn’t give a shyt, he does it because he can get away with it here anonymously.
I bet he wouldn’t do that face to face with the scientists he tries to discredit.”
————
You would lose that bet.
They discredit themselves, by making false claims in non peer-reviewed papers(sic).
They do not have the courage to submit their work(sic) to scientific scrutiny.
Highly credentialed peer-reviewed climate scientist worldwide have discredited their work(sic).
You still wouldn’t have the courage to meet them face to face would you cosmos?
They’d call you on your b.s. you post here and there would be no hyperlinks to defend you.
Peer-reviewed papers are not a guarantee of anything. The peer review comes from like-minded scientists, like the Climate Alarmists. It’s an entire schema of fraud and it is tumbling like a house of cards as the natural climate variations are making a liar out of your “peer reviewed” scientists.
Blues based rock in all forms is always the best- simple and feeds the soul.
“Peer-reviewed papers are not a guarantee of anything. The peer review comes from like-minded scientists, like the Climate Alarmists. It’s an entire schema of fraud and it is tumbling like a house of cards as the natural climate variations are making a liar out of your “peer reviewed” scientists.”
EXACTLY!! It is a power scheme that needs a sht ton of sheep to make it work…..Making people feel good about having less power, fun, money, and control over their lives.
“Blues based rock in all forms is always the best- simple and feeds the soul.”
Ya’ take a bunch of Delta Blues, mix in a bit of Irish/Scottish folk music from Appalachia and toss in some Negro Spiritual influence and you have Rock ‘n’ Roll.
There is and has never been anything better to fire you up, sooth your soul or to bring a tear to your eye.
The best of Americana!
Clark, have you checked out the summer concerts at the zoo? They are not too bad.
“Clark, have you checked out the summer concerts at the zoo?”
Not yet – my father is not doing all that well and I am afraid that I will have to be spending my summer in Florida.
But the Summer Concerts at the Zoo – one of Wichita’s greatest cultural attractions – we should be very proud of that.
I’m still waiting for Regular’s PROOF that Cosmos is no scientist… LOL Looks like it will be a long wait :roll:
multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘,
I don’t need hyperlinks to explain to them (face-to-face) why their claims are wrong. For example, CO2 measurements should be taken at remote sites, where it is well-mixed.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ posted: “It’s an entire schema of fraud and it is tumbling like a house of cards as the natural climate variations are making a liar out of your “peer reviewed” scientists.”
You mean like Mt. Pinatubo, El Nino’s, La Nina’s, etc. Those are just “noise” superimposed on the long-term AGW signal.
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ aka Republican posted May 6, 2007 at 4:52 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/the_costs_of_ta/#comment-247370
“Be prepared for energy source change, but don’t buy into the voodoo Science representation of the IPCC Global Warming Alarmists.”
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ believes that his moldy old Industrial Hygiene engineering qualifies him to discredit all of the peer-reviewed, published science done by the worlds most highly credentialed climate scientists.
That’d be funny, if it wasn’t so irrational and pathetic.
Chas, if cosmos doesn’t want to give his background he won’t.
Evidently, he has lied about his past as he won’t admit to what he said before.
How can I prove someone’s education who remains anonymous on the blog?
cosmos remains anonymous like you Chas, because you are a coward.
Neither one of you will stand up to scrutiny if people knew who you were.
The climate alarmist house of cards is falling down daily with each passage of natural climate variation as it controls and confounds the predictions of the failed computer climate models that are incomplete and misleading.
cosmos can only re-write stuff over and over about me because cosmos hides behind his computer safe from scrutiny.
cosmos cannot stand behind his convictions publically, because he has no courage.
cosmos is a coward.
“The great thing about music”
Ah, music, the food of life. Even if there is no other common ground, music brings us all together – well except McCluer and he has a tin ear.
Chas,
Actually, what the multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ needs to prove is that he is a better, more credible scientist than all of the climate scientists worldwide that he attacks.
He has proven the opposite, by copy/pasting people like E.G. Beck and Steven Milloy, lying, and doing a whole lot of stupid, wild arm flailing.
cosmos still won’t give his background or his education on his 12:21 am post.
cosmos is a coward hiding behind a computer screen.
Well ya’ll have fun, I am cashin’ out for tonight.
Regular — since it is YOU who keeps on with “cosmos is no scientist” —- it is therefore YOU who must prove that statement… not him!! YOU make the accusation… YOU prove it!! But the thing is, you CANT prove it!!
cosmos is not a scientist until he can prove otherwise. Evidently, cosmos does not want to prove it and has no peer reviewed papers in climate science to offer up his so-called authority.
cosmos is a coward hiding behind a computer screen.
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ believes that computer climate models have failed because they don’t include factors that can’t be predicted — like the Mt. Pinatubo erutption.
And WHY should I provide my credentials? The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ believes that his moldy old Industrial Hygiene engineering qualifies him to discredit all of the peer-reviewed, published science done by the worlds most highly credentialed climate scientists.
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ even called Dr. Ben a chemistry “clod”.
Like I said, it’d be funny, if it wasn’t so irrational and pathetic.
“But I study. I learn every day. I have much more to learn. I’m curious. I’m capable of learning. Took me awhile to get to this point of confidence and no one can take that away from me!”
This is the same wonderful person I an proud to know who has a son at Harvard doing research on stem cells – the science of change for the 21st century!
Linda is waaayyyy… too humble. I am very sorry she felt so left out of the debate. She should not.
As my friend CF says, when Linda kicks someone’s ass, they deserve it!
Chas,
My credentials are irrelevant, because I haven’t used them to support my AGW posts.
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ credentials ARE relevant, because he claims to know more about climate science than the AGW scientists.
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ can’t support his false claim, so he instead does some wild arm flailing, lies, and attacks me.
Clark — it is TROLL time — he must be out of his meds… This is despicable….
Good night; Good luck; God bless –
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL!!
Blessings to Clark’s dad….
So mote it be!!
I agree with you Cosmos… Its just that I get real tired of seeing Regular call you a non-scientist, without offering proof…
He would go balistic if anybody did that to him!!
Come to think of it, maybe thats the appropriate retaliation…. LOL
cosmos cannot factually support his claims because he has said several times that computer climate models are not accurate. cosmos then makes false claims of prediction from these same computer climate models that are inaccurate.
cosmos is not a scientist. cosmos has no peer reviewed paper on climate science to offer up.
cosmos is a coward who makes false claims about climate.
cosmos hides behind a computer screen because he is a coward.
Linda,
I am grateful for your contributions here. I always have been. I look forward to seeing you soon.
I pride myself on not being stupid, but you have enlightened me more than once.
Thank you for being my friend.
Steven
Ol’ “Regular” is being particularly assholey this evening, even for “Regular.”
Monkeyhawk
Posted June 13, 2008 at 1:14 am | Permalink
Ol’ “Regular” is being particularly assholey this evening, even for “Regular.”
======================================
Boy howdy, Monkey, you sure got that right!!
The only-est way to stop him, is for evverybody to quit “feeding” his lunacy!!
Damn Trolls!!
Least reported, least commented on issue of the day: Shrub got his ass handed to him today by the SCOTUS.
By a very slim 5-4 vote, the right of habeas corpus survives!
“No one has ever seen Clark and his story keeps getting stranger and stranger each time he tells it.”
Untrue. Sorry, James, we found a better pizza…
WTG SCOTUS!!! it was a great ruling!!!
Now, how long will it be before they let those guys at Gitmo have their day in court?? Hopefuly, it wont take too long!! Then the ones who are criminals… hang on to them… the Others??? Let them go free!!
Sierra Club forces thousands of Truckers out of Work with latest Scam
Four-plus-dollar gasoline is forcing Americans to realize that we need increased domestic oil production to meet our ever-growing demand for affordable fuel.
The Sierra Club and the Natural Resources Defense Council, or NRDC, successfully pressured the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to block ConocoPhillips’ expansion of its Roxana, Ill., gasoline refinery, which processes heavy crude oil from Canada, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.
The project would have expanded the volume of Canadian crude processed from 60,000 barrels per day to more than 500,000 barrels a day by 2015. After the Illinois EPA had approved the expansion, the green groups petitioned the federal EPA to block it, alleging ConocoPhillips wasn’t using the best available technology for reducing emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,366004,00.html
It looks like multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘s’ only proof(sic) that his IH engineering degree makes him a more credible scientist than the worlds top climate scientists is attacking me, and lying about me.
The posts by multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ would be funny… if they weren’t so irrational and pathetic.
cosmos has stated that the computer climate models are inaccurate. Yet cosmos persists to make false predictions about future climate with these inaccurate computer models.
cosmos puts out false information on a simulated climate that doesn’t exist, will never exist and has never existed.
cosmos is climate alarmist put out false information.
cosmos is coward and a non-scientist who hides behind his computer screen.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘,
1) Do you have an update on the analysis done by Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre?
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2007/09/deniers-rediscover-hockey-stick.html
“To be honest, this is starting to look like a great validation of GISTEMP.”
2) List the factor(s) that have caused the warming since the 1970’s.
Was it a change in Earth’s orbit? Alien spacecraft hidden by cloaking, aiming undetectable heat energy at Earth? /sarcasm off
cosmos attempts at diversion have failed. His false claims on failed computer climate models are misleading the public and only serve the rich elite in the carbon credit exchange field like Al Gore.
cosmos false documentation comes from his inability to understand science because cosmos is not a scientist and does not realize that excluding the whole picture of what climate really is, is a gross disservice to mankind.
cosmos false assertions about the climate exclude all natural variations which currently control and have in the past controlled our climate. The 1.4 degree Fahrenheit rise in temperature in the last century, doesn’t even qualify for calibration error on every scaling type known to science. There were no consistent calibrations of temperature recording devices before the 1970s.
cosmos climate sciences is based on false, uncalibrated, unsubstantiated, exclusionary science that no one believes but the fanatic followers of Al Gore and his rich Carbon Credit schemers.
cosmos is not a scientist.
cosmos is a coward who hides behind his computer screen.
‘EPA Rejects Permits for Dirty Refinery’
http://www.nrdc.org/media/2008/080606b.asp
The following are comments from Ann Alexander, Senior Attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and lead litigator on the challenge. NRDC led the challenge representing American Bottom Conservancy, and Sierra Club was represented by the Environmental Integrity Project.
“This is a huge win for anyone living near a refinery, but especially the communities in the Metro East area and for St. Louis. Excessive emissions from this expanded refinery would have harmed the health of everyone in the region.”
“At a time of record oil profits, this decision ensures ConocoPhillips will invest in protections for the surrounding communities, rather than pushing the cost of pollution onto taxpayers in the form of respiratory illness, hospital bills, and lost time at work. We hope this will become the norm at all oil refineries in the United States.”
“California refineries have been held to a higher standard when it comes to cutting pollution from their flares. There is no reason that people in San Francisco or L.A. should have better protections than people elsewhere in the country. EPA is sending a message to oil refineries around the nation that it is time they clean up.”
“We are not asking for hugely complicated or costly measures. Holding flare emissions down just requires sound engineering and responsible operating practices.”
“This expansion project would not do anything to bring down gas prices right now. The ConocoPhillips refinery is expanding to process Canadian tar sands oil, which is profitable only if crude prices stay high. Relief from the pain at the pump is not going to happen until we begin to address our addiction to oil and focus on more efficient cars and clean renewable energy sources.”
The multi-nic’d ‘Regular‘ posted,
“There were no consistent calibrations of temperature recording devices before the 1970s.”
———
Do you have an update on the analysis done by Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre?
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2007/09/deniers-rediscover-hockey-stick.html
“To be honest, this is starting to look like a great validation of GISTEMP.”
cosmos falsely accuses the Illinois refinery of being dirty. The Illinois scientists of the Illinois State EPA have found that the refinery meets all standards and have exceeded them.
The Sierra Club is interferring with the State of Illinois and their constitutional process to conduct commerce as they see fit.
cosmos supports the Sierra Club and hopes that thousands of truckers along with thousands of businesses will lose their job, just so the Sierra Club can keep their ‘green’ record.
cosmos support of the Sierra Club action in Illinois, means that hundreds of thousands if not millions of people will suffer because there will be no relief of the high prices of oil and gasoline.
cosmos love of the Sierra Club means that he wants the United States to fail economically, even if it means putting tens of thousands of people of work.
cosmos is not a scientist. cosmos is a political hack of the first order of the socialistic green movement with the identical agenda of anti-technology that the Una-bomber wrote about in his manifesto.
cosmos and the una-bomber are kindred spirits seeking to destroy mankind and the economy of the United States.
cosmos is not a scientist.
cosmos is a coward who hides behind his computer screen.
The ‘multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s’ 1:31 am post is a modified copy/paste of an “OPINION” column written by Steven Milloy.
Steven Milloy is one of multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s’ expert(sic) climate(sic) scientists(sic).
cosmos posted May 7, 2007 at 5:18 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/the_costs_of_ta/#comment-247427
Republican,
“Try and defeat what I wrote Cosmos.”
You “wrote”? You mean like the parts of your 3:30 and 3:52 AM posts you copy/pasted from various sites, like
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/ ?
That’s plagiarism. You attack me for using “hyperlinks”, but you do copy/pastes, and claim that you wrote it.
You’re so gullible and science-challenged you don’t even realize that Milloy is conning you with pseudo-science.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steve_Milloy
———-
From Sourcewatch,
“Steven J. Milloy is a columnist for Fox News and a paid advocate for Phillip Morris, ExxonMobil and other corporations. From the 1990s until the end of 2005, he was an adjunct scholar at the libertarian think tank the Cato Institute.”