“The greatest threat to classic Republicanism is not liberalism; it’s this new brand of libertarianism,†former GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in an interview last week. He described this libertarianism as a “heartless, callous, soulless type of economic conservatism because it says ‘look, we want to cut taxes and eliminate government. If it means that elderly people don’t get their Medicare drugs, so be it. If it means little kids go without education and health care, so be it.’†He said such a message is neither American nor historically Republican.
“Huckabee is right that libertarianism is a threat to Republicanism,†Libertarian Party spokesman Andrew Davis responded in statement. “The Republican Party, with the help of people like Sen. John McCain, has done nothing but increase the scope and power of government while throwing fiscal responsibility to the wind.†He said that libertarianism was “the American message,†because it “empowers the American people by giving them more control over their lives and their wallets.â€
Meanwhile, Michael Gerson wrote in the Washington Post that attempts by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., to portray Jesus as a libertarian are as distorted as portrayals of Jesus as a leftist revolutionary.
72 Comments
Some republicans already believe that the old and infirm should just die, look at how they vote on these issues. And if dems do get the republicans to vote for a program, they seriously underfund them. They pay a whole lot of lipservice to doing the right thing but seem to fall short of it every time.
That’s why you’ll see many of us pro-choicers claim that republicans are not really pro-life at all.
Libertarian policies are so dumb, there are no decent nations that live like this, if anything it becomes a totally poor sociey where the few rich run everything. And they just can’t see the error of their ways.
I tell libertarians all the time, if you like that model, move to Mexico where it is practiced, no regulations, your boss can screw you as much as he wants, you can HOPE that the acid factory down the road didn’t taint your well water and the food you buy isn’t disease ridden. They just don’t get it.
Most libertarians I’ve met are kindof kooky anyway, they probably wouldn’t mind. They seem to think we’d enjoy the same standard of living. Even if you move up into the mountains and are completely self sustaining, you’re still enjoying the benefits of our government programs. You’re not being invaded, your trees are protected, your food isn’t being destroyed by pollution (well, as bad as it could be).
“”"He described this libertarianism as a “heartless, callous, soulless type of economic conservatism because it says ‘look, we want to cut taxes and eliminate government. If it means that elderly people don’t get their Medicare drugs, so be it. If it means little kids go without education and health care, so be it.’””"”
Sounds pretty much like the Republicans to me. But at least the Libertarians will let you buy beer on Sunday and smoke a joint to ease your pain!
Jesus was a Libertarin? That would be news to Jesus I think. As I recall, from the Bible reading I have done, Jesus took a loaf of bread and a fish and fed all the people that came to see him. He didn’t take the fish and bread, eat it himself and then say “I got mine and to Hell with you people”. And didn’t Jesus also heal the sick and make a blind person see again? As I recall, from the Bible, Jesus didn’t say “hello I am Dr Christ and if you want me to fix you up, you better fork over your life’s savings”. So I don’t know how Jesus would be considered a Libertarin or a Republican.
I do agree with Kev’s points, there are GOOD things about the libertarian party too, at least they’ve got SOMETHING going for em.
I contributed to Paul’s campaign and had friends do so also. He was the sole Republican candidate (after Hagel abandoned his brief exploration of the race) who told the truth about the illegality of our war on Iraqis. He was the only one who measured the damage to our economy that this three-trillion dollar war has done. We are in hock up to our necks to the Chinese and have no easy way to extricate our country from debt within the span of most of our lifetimes.
The supposed “pro-lifers” have caused the premature deaths of perhaps a million Iraqis and have caused four million to flee their homes as refugees. The neocons have caused the U.S. to become the pariah of the world.
From Ben Stein…
Every presidential candidate is promising to make our lives better if elected. He or she will give us change, offer hope, make us more prosperous, happier, better educated, holier and healthier if we cast our vote for him or her. Presidents simply cannot change much for most of us. For the huge majority of Americans, how much we earn, how healthy we are, how well our kids are educated, that’s up to us, not the federal government. No government program will make us middle class or rich if we don’t get educated in some way and work hard. No government program will make us healthy if we eat too much, or smoke or drink too much or don’t exercise. The government cannot provide a lavish retirement if we don’t save and invest well. Oh, and the money that the candidates promise to spend? That’s your money, not their money they are spending.
In a free society, what we are and who we are depends on us, except for the very most poor among us, where the government can indeed make a difference. But for the huge bulk of Americans, no matter what any Republican or Democrat promises, it is up to the people in our house not the White House. What the politicians say is just sideshow barking, and when the circus leaves town we’ve got to get back to basics; work, save and teach your children well, and enjoy the political show. But it’s just show business, not real business.
Just remember, no government ever has taxed themselves into prosperity!!!!
Tax beaks for the rich? …. the top 1% pay 39.4% of ALL federal tax!
While the bottom 50% paid only 3.1%
No matter how much the socialist/communists DemLibs take from those that actually produce it, giving it to those that don’t, it will NEVER-EVER be enough. Societies helping those that truly need it, or have earned it and paid for others their whole lives, ie. Social Security and Medicare, is exactly what a supportive society should do, but to transfer wealth to those who simply choose not to be productive only enables and expands the numbers of those taking advantage. Government is one of the most inefficient mechanisms to care for others because many of the bureaucrats simply don’t personally care, it’s just a job, with great benefits, and with inadequate safeguards protect the programs from abuse.
When a government penalizes the producers too much, they simply cut back producing, the incentive is lost. Every truly Communist/Socialist government has proved that and FAILED.
Ben,
Take your own advice and try some Clear Eyes. Or get those glasses checked, man. You need to see what’s going on around you, cause you’re about as deluded as a guy can get.
Huckabee’s brand of Republicanism (social conservative, economic moderate) is the opposite of that espoused by libertarians, who are social liberals and economic conservatives. I can not see the Republican party moving in a more libertarian direction. I can see Libertarians drawing some Republicans away because of their strong capitalist bent.
But I don’t see many Democrats going Libertarian. Once a socialist, always a socialist.
Thanks Boxlock. Stein is a brilliant guy.
The Patriot;
“If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy.”—Thomas Jefferson
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.” —C.S. Lewis
“The greatest threat to classic Republicanism is not liberalism or libertarianism, It’s RINOs.”
But what is a RINO anyways… near as far as I can tell from usage it’s “a Republican that’s not me.”
” Michael Gerson wrote in the Washington Post that attempts by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., to portray Jesus as a libertarian ”
I’ll have to read about Coburn (slimeball) later.
Sounds like what Al Franken wrote in “Lies and the lying liars who tell them” about supply side Jesus.
I really dont see many conservatives jumping ship to the Libertarians, their views on personal freedom( pro gay, ending the war on drugs) scare the shit out of them. Not the to mention Ending the war in Iraq, No Income tax which would be drastic cuts in military spending. Some of those same issues have the potential to draw some democrat voters in.
Biggest Threat What’s Holding-up Gasoline Prices
This is the first time we’ve had a “president” with the mind of a child. There is really nothing with which to compare him, so in that sense he’s unique.
As he says: “He’s a “decider.”
That kind of an remark belongs {along with most of his unscripted answers} in a “grade school.”
Not only is he the most powerful man in the world, but due to his immaturity, he’s also the most dangerous.
That fact has influenced oil traders to bid-up the price of crude oil, fearing an all-out Mid East war driven by the alliance between the Neocons of the United States, the greed of the Zionists of Israel, {Likuds} the PNAC Plan,{somewhere in-between} coupled with the ease with which the childishness of Bush can be manipulated causing the sane world to hold its collective breath and crude oil breaking new price levels almost daily.
The ‘Granny won’t get her meds’ argument is a laughable straw man. Pity those who fall for it. Most Libertarians feel that the city/county/state should take care of their own, not the federal government. Pretty basic premise and has not changed.
I for one jumped ship with a great big ole smile.
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
Hey, Disgruntled Republicans!
No need to complain about your “lack of choices.” Here’s the real conservative you should support:
Bob Barr, the man who spearheaded the impeachment of Bill Clinton.
You can’t get any more conservative than THAT!
And remember Rush Limbaugh’s “Operation Chaos”?
Yeah, it’s like that except for the big enchilada . . .
Back at you, Rush, and many happy returns.
Spread the word far and wide, Sol.
Bob Barr is the candidate real conservatives must support!
I wish you the best of luck with that. Let me know how I can help.
Tom Coburn…what a strange man.
Why’s that, Regular?
He’s a staunch Republican and a decon in the Southern Baptist Church.
I love it. Back from vacation to my favorite topic on the blog. The pesky, Goldwater type, libertarians who won’t be bullied by the REAL RINO’s. Perhaps the republican party may actually listen for a change.
Those are great straw men.
no regulations
HOPE that the acid factory down the road didn’t taint your well water
HOPE that the food you buy isn’t disease ridden
it becomes a totally poor society where the few rich run everything
it means that elderly people don’t get their Medicare drugs
I got mine and to Hell with you people
if it means little kids go without education and health care, so be it
What those behind the ’straw men’ do not tell you is that Libertarians are against the government doing those things to the extreme we have today. In short, why should the government buy medicine for people who have assets they could sell to acquire what they need? Shouldn’t people have exhausted all other options before turning to the government to take from others to supply for their needs?
Sol, so are you a Libertarian who beilives government is bad at all levels? Or just an anti federalist who beilives in a weak federal government and strong state/local?
Is Huckabee speaking like the Republicans are some sort of moral authority and a party of compassion? Huckabee’s idiocy never ceases to amaze me.
Here come the bleeding hearted “conservatives”
They used to fancy themselves like Ronald Reagan, yet forgot his mantra “greed works”
note: If memory serves Ronald Reagan was invoked over 100 times during the most recent GOP debates.
They used to liken themselves to Milton Freedman, yet are now deathly afraid of the rich being too powerful.
They used to liken themselves to Art Laffer, yet grow the government rather than shrinking it (sound familiar)
The Irony and inconsistency are simply delicious.
Why is Tom Coburn comparing Jesus to Libertarians when he him self isn’t one? This is a guy who got pissed off when Schindler’s List was shown on network TV unedited.
“In short, why should the government buy medicine for people who have assets they could sell to acquire what they need? Shouldn’t people have exhausted all other options before turning to the government to take from others to supply for their needs?”
And if there’s any justice in the world, PM, that’s exactly what’ll happen to you . . .
Because why should Paris Hilton have to deny herself a third yacht just because there might be an orphan with cancer . . .
weak federal government and strong state/local?
For sure.
there might be an orphan with cancer
And how much did you give that poor orphan?
Well Sol, not so fast. The strong state/local government EXCEPT those states/cities that pass medical marijuana or assisted suicide laws. Now THOSE state/local governments can’t be strong. (sarcasm off)
Guess I missed your point. I support both assisted suicide and medical marijuana.
No slam on you sol. I know where you stand. I just had to put that in there. I’m feeling ornery today. But alas. None of the real rinos are taking the bait.
That’s exactly what happens NOW. When you need care, the goverment will take your home.
“And if there’s any justice in the world, PM, that’s exactly what’ll happen to you . . .”
I call upon you to put your words into action. Go take from someone personally who you think has too much and give it to the proverbial poor, but only something you think they need.
If you really believe in this ‘justice’ then don’t wait until the government does it.
That would help that one person that one time, if I could even do it, PM.
But it doesn’t systematically help people who need help.
Can y’all see this for what it is? The GOP cheated Ron Paul when his message started being heard. There are a few of us that are ‘enlightened’ now, but many many more should have heard his message.
The Ron Paul movement is still alive and well. I am guessing the vast majority of Paul backers will vote Barr. So in order to keep the Barr message squashed, they have to first make you think that Libertarians are; kooks, unjust, liberal, insensitive…
They are just getting out in front of this one with lessons learned from the Paul campaign.
You are only one man CA. No one would expect you to save them all.
Put your beliefs into action. Not by someone else. You do it if you think that is justice.
Capn,
How much money did you claim as deductions on last year’s taxes? You greedy bigoted SOB, that money could have gone to help someone.
The victum Capn’A claimed 6 digits as I recall…..the evil rich, isn’t that right CapnA?
It’s possible that Libertarians will be seen as kooks. But I think the GOP will be wanting them to be seen as spoilers. If you vote for Ron Paul, you help elect Obama etc.
oops, scratch that. If you vote for Barr
“I support both assisted suicide and medical marijuana.”
I would be glad to help someone get on the skyscraper’s elevator.
If you vote for Ron Paul, you help elect Obama etc.
Roger that LT, and that is why Ron Paul will not run third party. Guess the GOP should have thought of that before they proffered the ‘maverick’ liberal McCain.
Libertarians–
Simmer down.
We had a test of your theory already. It was called “the gilded age.” Read Dickens, why don’t you?
If you don’t have a system to help people, you aren’t really helping much.
That’s why I serve by endevoring to change the system.
And it will help you too whether you want it to or not . . .
Communists–
Simmer down.
We had a test of your theory already. It was called “the USSR”. Read a history book, why don’t you?
It only killed 100,000,000 people in under 100 years. . . .
I don’t think the GOP had much choice Sol. The GOP is killing themselves trying to keep McCain away from Dubya’s image. I think what hurt the GOP was when Flush Lardball and Ann Coultergeist thought that they could dictate what was and was not a Republican or a RINO. If they hadn’t forced his hand into looking for reverand fat a$$, he could have killed Obama on the Rev Wright story. They couldn’t support Paul, because he wouldn’t kiss a$$ on Iraq.
I like some aspects of Libertarianism, but I think Centeristism is better. Libertarians are just another extreme, they provide some good ideals, but foster too narrow of a scope just like Liberalism, and Conservatism. I think we should just aim for the center with everything, and draw all the good aspects of the different political ideologies while avoiding the extremism. It seems like the general public is growing out of this phase we’ve had over the past one hundred years of political fuedism, diplomatic debate is good, but choosing sides and warring with one another is more childish than most anything. So, yea, I’m supporting McCain, out of the three canidates left standing, he is more towards the center than Clinton, or Obama.
“Barnie” notes –
“Libertarians are just another extreme”
Yeah, when you get down to specifics you soon discover that most Libertarians are kooks who don’t like taxes and want to smoke dope. It could be a winning political strategy until you realize they also think the Interstate Highway System is a natural stone formation.
Barnie
Posted June 2, 2008 at 7:30 pm | Permalink
I like some aspects of Libertarianism, but I think Centeristism is better. Libertarians are just another extreme, they provide some good ideals, but foster too narrow of a scope just like Liberalism, and Conservatism. I think we should just aim for the center with everything, and draw all the good aspects of the different political ideologies while avoiding the extremism.
Barnie, ain’t it the truth? I find myself wishing sometimes that the Republicans and Democrats would just go out behind the barn and shoot each other. The country would be better off without both parties. Leave the country to those in the middle and the hell with the radicals on both sides.
Libertarians are kooks
Atta girl monkey. Got the GOP talking points down to a T.
If you can’t make a statement based on facts, call them kooks and make shit up. Natural rock formation? Kinda like your head?
Yeah, any group that wants to adhere to the US Constitution Must be a bunch of kooks.
Better to be a kook then a Socialist beggar.
Here is a story about a teenager with the courage to live according to his socialist/communist ideals.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361501,00.html
Any progressives want to live the life as well?
Why shouldnt people allowed to smoke dope, it costs 40+ billion dollars a year to lock them up. And not having to pay the income tax would give me 400 dollar raise every month
“TomPaine” defends the Libertarians with –
“Why shouldnt people allowed to smoke dope, it costs 40+ billion dollars a year to lock them up. And not having to pay the income tax would give me 400 dollar raise every month”
I didn’t say they were wrong in their goals, but they’re kooks to think their agenda has any political viability.
How many folks have you seen smoke 6 joints and go start a bar fight? Whiskey shooters? Not so much.
but they’re kooks to think their agenda has any political viability.
But socialism in a capitalist society makes sense?
Hmmmm
Let’s review – follow the constitution, strictly, or try to force socialism on a capitalist society.
Yeah, easy to spot the kooks isn’t it?
“SolDevVB” plays the “socialism” card.
You guys throw out that word so often and obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
When pressed, so-called “Libertarians” turn into cafeteria “socialists,” depending on “socialized” fire departnments, “socialized” water systems, “socialized” sewers, “socialized” highways, “socialized” post offices, “socialized” air traffic control, a “socialized” internet….
“socialized” fire departnments
“socialized” water systems
“socialized” sewers
county, city or township
“socialized” highways
“socialized” post offices
“socialized” air traffic control
State or county
“socialized” internet
Think that is already privately owned scooter.
Social security
Disproportionate taxation
Monetary transference
Federal welfare
Social Security
SSI
Earned Entitlements for Railroad Employees
Trade Adjustment Assistance
Food Stamp Program
Ah, “SolDevVB” –
So you are a “socialist” at heart. Just so long as it’s local or township or county or state socialism!
Toldja you didn’t know what you are talking about.
kooky ideas you mean things like ending the war in Iraq, closing all overseas military bases, ending all foreign aide, exepect disaster relief, ending the war on drugs, and allowing citizens more personal freedom, allowing Gay/lesbians the same rights as everyone else. reducing spending and cutting taxes
Strong state’s rights = socialism… Why did I ever bother with you?
Sol what do you think would happen if Libertarians took over state an local government. That’s why I asked the question yesterday about being a Libertarian vs a antifedralist
Tom P…
http://www.reasonpapers.com/pdf/07/rp_7_5.pdf
“TomPaine” shows he just doesn’t get it, by posting –
“kooky ideas you mean things like ending the war in Iraq, closing all overseas military bases, ending all foreign aide, exepect [sic] disaster relief, ending the war on drugs, and allowing citizens more personal freedom, allowing Gay/lesbians the same rights as everyone else. reducing spending and cutting taxes”
No, “TomPaine.” If you go back upthread and read what I actually wrote, you’ll discover these words:
“…[T]hey’re kooks to think their agenda has any political viability.”
The Libertarian Party is such a non-entity in American politics as to be a joke.
Hell, advocates of The Natural Law Party sincerely believed (and who am I to argue?) it could realign humanity with Transcendental Meditation and all the world’s problems would be alleviated.
They actually had presidential candidates in 1992, 1996, and 2000. Since 2004, not so much. Not enough kooks, I guess.
Sure, there have sometimes been enough kooks in fringe parties that have contributed to the political mix. Eugene Debbs ran for President (in 1916, I think) from his prison cell. But no one expected him to win.
If the Libertarians really had a pair (amongst them all), they’d nominate Ted Kaczynski for President. But the kooks think they have some viable political prospects.
From the link…
“Antifederalism was very much in keeping with the radical libertarian tradition of the American Revolution.”
“There is a small libertarian third party in the United States today, and vestiges of Antifederalism can be found in the civil libertarian strain in 20th century American liberal thought.”
“When pressed, so-called “Libertarians” turn into cafeteria “socialists,” depending on “socialized” fire departnments, “socialized” water systems, “socialized” sewers, “socialized” highways, “socialized” post offices, “socialized” air traffic control, a “socialized” internet….”
From The DemUnderground talking points FOR Socialism.
The Dem Socialists want to confuse Government Services like Roads, Sewers, Police, Fire Protection, which are PUBLIC BENEFITS EQUALLY AVAILABLE TO ALL -
As opposed to the REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH with a Progressive Tax System and with Social Programs that BENEFIT A FEW, at the expense of OTHERS.
The bottom 50% of taxpayers, pay 3% of the Federal Income tax!
You Dem Socialists LITERALLY SUCK the money from working Americans.
Gee, “MaxGrobnik” –
By your definition, Universal Health Care would be a “public benefit equally available by all.”
Care to
backtrackreconsider your last post?equally available by all
That is where you missed.
“SolDevVB” tries (and fails) with –
“equally available by all”
That is where you missed.
And how would that be, “SolDevVB?”
Show your work.
You provided that health care would be equally available to all. Which plan would that be?
Oh yeah, show your work.
Didn’t think so.
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