One of the world’s leading global warming scientists, James Hansen of NASA, will give the keynote address in September at the 2008 Kansas Wind and Renewable Energy Conference in Topeka, sponsored by the Kansas Corporation Commission.
Hansen’s visit is especially timely: The Holcomb coal-plant debate revealed a broad swath of climate change denial among some of Kansas’ top lawmakers. Hansen’s speech will be a good chance for Kansans to hear the latest science on climate change from a top expert and learn why it requires urgent action, including the development of wind and renewables.
Meanwhile, NASA’s own internal watchdog group last week charged that Bush appointees in the agency’s press office used “inappropriate political interference†from 2004 to 2006 to suppress negative findings on global warming and restrict media access to top climate change sources, including Hansen.
98 Comments
What is wrong with the CO2 argument? Well most people have no understanding of climate science overall or the facts about CO2. The IPCC have also effectively made it the sole cause of climate change. AGW advocates and governments talk about reducing greenhouse gases, but they mean CO2. Few know it is less than 4% of all the greenhouse gases and the human portion is just a fraction of the 4%. Indeed, the amount we produce is within the error factor of the estimates of three natural sources.
CO2 EMISSIONS :
1. Respiration Humans, Animals, Phytoplankton 43.5 – 52 Gt C/ year
2. Ocean Outgassing (Tropical Areas) 90 – 100 Gt C/year
3. Volcanoes, Soil degassing 0.5 – 2 Gt C/ year
4. Soil Bacteria, Decomposition 50 – 60 Gt C/ year
5. Forest cutting, Forest fires 0.6 – 2.6 Gt C/year
Anthropogenic emissions (2005) 7.5 – 7.5 Gt C/year
TOTAL 192 to 224 Gt C/ year
The table shows the range of estimates of natural CO2 and human production in 2005 (Gt C/year is Gigatons of Carbon per year). Accuracy has not improved since. Notice the human contribution is within the error range of three (1, 2, & 4) of the natural sources. The total error range is almost 5 times the amount of total human production. If we play the carbon tax game we can reduce that by 50 percent to 3.75 Gt C/year net because we remove half of what we produce through agriculture and reforestation. In other words, if everyone left the planet but one scientist remained to measure the difference in atmospheric CO2 she would not be able to measure any difference.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/3482nce.
A NOTE ON NASA’S JAMES HANSEN BEING MUZZLED BY NASA
Roy W. Spencer,
I see that we are once again having to hear how NASA’s James Hansen was dissuaded from talking to the press on a few of the 1,400 media interviews he was involved in over the years.
Well, I had the same pressure as a NASA employee during the Clinton-Gore years, because NASA management and the Clinton/Gore administration knew that I was skeptical that mankind’s CO2 emissions were the main cause of global warming. I was even told not to give my views during congressional testimony, and so I purposely dodged a question, under oath, when it arose.
But I didn’t complain about it like Hansen has. NASA is an executive branch agency and the President was, ultimately, my boss (and is, ultimately, Hansen’s boss). So, because of the restrictions on what I could and couldn’t do or say, I finally just resigned from NASA and went to work for the university here in Huntsville. There were no hard feelings, and I’m still active in a NASA satellite mission and fully supportive of its Earth observation programs.
In stark contrast, Jim Hansen said whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted to the press and congress during that time. He even campaigned for John Kerry, and received a $250,000 award from Theresa Heinz-Kerry’s charitable foundation — two events he maintains are unrelated. If I had done anything like this when I worked at NASA, I would have been crucified under the Hatch Act.
Does anyone besides me see a double standard here?
http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm
The Soros Threat To Democracy
By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, September 24, 2007
Democracy: George Soros is known for funding groups such as MoveOn.org that seek to manipulate public opinion. So why is the billionaire’s backing of what he believes in problematic? In a word: transparency.
George Soros & MoveOn.org: Exclusive Series
How many people, for instance, know that James Hansen, a man billed as a lonely “NASA whistleblower” standing up to the mighty U.S. government, was really funded by Soros’ Open Society Institute , which gave him “legal and media advice”?
That’s right, Hansen was packaged for the media by Soros’ flagship “philanthropy,” by as much as $720,000, most likely under the OSI’s “politicization of science” program.
That may have meant that Hansen had media flacks help him get on the evening news to push his agenda and lawyers pressuring officials to let him spout his supposedly “censored” spiel for weeks in the name of advancing the global warming agenda.
Hansen even succeeded, with public pressure from his nightly news performances, in forcing NASA to change its media policies to his advantage. Had Hansen’s OSI-funding been known, the public might have viewed the whole production differently. The outcome could have been different.
That’s not the only case. Didn’t the mainstream media report that 2006’s vast immigration rallies across the country began as a spontaneous uprising of 2 million angry Mexican-flag waving illegal immigrants demanding U.S. citizenship in Los Angeles, egged on only by a local Spanish-language radio announcer?
Turns out that wasn’t what happened, either. Soros’ OSI had money-muscle there, too, through its $17 million Justice Fund. The fund lists 19 projects in 2006. One was vaguely described involvement in the immigration rallies. Another project funded illegal immigrant activist groups for subsequent court cases.
So what looked like a wildfire grassroots movement really was a manipulation from OSI’s glassy Manhattan offices. The public had no way of knowing until the release of OSI’s 2006 annual report.
Meanwhile, OSI cash backed terrorist-friendly court rulings, too.
Do people know last year’s Supreme Court ruling abolishing special military commissions for terrorists at Guantanamo was a Soros project? OSI gave support to Georgetown lawyers in 2006 to win Hamdan v. Rumsfeld — for the terrorists.
OSI also gave cash to other radicals who pressured the Transportation Security Administration to scrap a program called “Secure Flight,” which matched flight passenger lists with terrorist names. It gave more cash to other left-wing lawyers who persuaded a Texas judge to block cell phone tracking of terrorists.
They trumpeted this as a victory for civil liberties. Feel safer?
It’s all part of the $74 million OSI spent on “U.S. Programs” in 2006 to “shape policy.” Who knows what revelations 2007’s report will bring around events now in the news?
OSI isn’t the only secretive organization that Soros funds. OSI partners with the Tides Foundation, which funnels cash from wealthy donors who may not want it known that their cash goes to fringe groups engaged in “direct action” — also known as eco-terrorism.
On the political front, Soros has a great influence in a secretive organization called “Democracy Alliance” whose idea of democracy seems to be government controlled solely of Democrats.
“As with everything about the Democracy Alliance, the strangest aspect of this entire process was the incessant secrecy. Among the alliance’s stated values was a commitment to political transparency — as long as it didn’t apply to the alliance,” wrote Matt Bai, describing how the alliance was formed in 2005, in his book “The Argument: Billionaires, Bloggers and the Battle to Remake Democratic Politics.”
Soros’ “shaping public policies,” as OSI calls it, is not illegal. But it’s a problem for democracy because it drives issues with cash and then only lets the public know about it after it’s old news.
That means the public makes decisions about issues without understanding the special agendas of groups behind them.
Without more transparency, it amounts to political manipulation. This leads to cynicism. As word of these short-term covert ops gets out, the public grows to distrust what it hears and tunes out.
The irony here is that Soros claims to be an advocate of an “open society.” His OSI does just the legal minimum to disclose its activities. The public shouldn’t have to wait until an annual report is out before the light is flipped on about the Open Society’s political action.
http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=275526219598836
that reminds me…better get some more mouse grease today….
Happy Father’s Day!
Hank, Old Roy there is certainly the neocon’s scientist isn’t he? An expert on global warming AND Intelligent design. And Rush’s personal go-to guy. How quaint.
I don’t want scientists leaving over what they know. We need guys like Roy, to put out there the things that might be wrong with the theory, if only he’d be really honest about it.
Hank, what about the Cato Institute and the Heritage foundation? Those groups do the exact same things that you complain about Soros doing, I guess its wrong if our side plays by your rules?
Why True Christians™ Shouldn’t Give a Lick About the Damned Environment!
– Sermon by Pastor Deacon Fred
As True Bible believing Christians™, we have a much better understanding about the fate of this planet than any Biologist, Environmentalist, or so-called scientist because we have a personal relationship with the Fellow who created this whole place to begin with! Friends, as True Christians™ then, being familiar with the Holy Bible gives you more authority than anyone who holds a post-graduate degree! That’s something to be proud of – don’t wince about it! And don’t let people call you crazy! God’s Holy Scriptures give the poorest farmer’s servant in our congregation the power to win an argument with a Bio-Chemist, or a Nuclear Physicist – without even knowing a lick about what them folks studied in their fancy secular universities! What these ignorant unsaved, over-educated folks don’t understand is that they can gather all the data, all the research and present all the facts they care to collect about any subject under the sun – but when you hold it next to child-like faith in the Almighty God, the most learned Evolutionist or Environmentalist, will widen their blind eyes in awe, and cower in fear at the truth of God’s Word! Praise Jesus! For the simple truth, we need only look to our old children’s Sunday School song, “He’s Got the Whole World in His Hands!” Oh, GLORY!
All this hub-bub about conserving energy, and protecting the environment is enough to make me want to pull my hair out! How about you? Why should we give a lick if our thermometers are edging up a bit, when the Lord promised He is going to turn the whole dang planet into a fire ball any minute now? Who is going to protect the ice cubes in Greenland then, my friends? Satan is sending out a false anxiety, and misdirected mass-hysteria about the environment! The roots of these phony fears are planted deeply into so-called “facts” which sprout from poisonous seeds between the hot-rocks scattered across the sandy shores of the Lake of Fire. Its Satan’s way of slapping Jesus in the face while he still has a chance! A-men? The only fact these folks should really be afraid of is the fact that if they don’t believe in Jesus Christ, that our loving God is going to roast them alive in Hell for eternity! Now, if you ask me – I’d be much more concerned about what is going to happen to me for eternity than I am about what’s going to happen to me in the next few years! A-men?
God teaches us in the Bible that “thinking” and “worrying” is an absolute waste of time!?
Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? – Matthew 6:25
Anyone who has read the Bible and believes every word will agree that worrying about our environment and trying to conserve energy (among other things) is an act of defiance against the Living God. Friends, the Lord will take care of everything. God made the Earth and the Heavens and if He wants to destroy it all, He will! In fact, one of the things that makes folks True Christians™ in the first place is that we are PRAYING for the destruction of this planet. You see, God actually wants us to use up all the resources, because when everything is gone, it will signal the return of sweet Jesus to come kill all the Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Hindus and Tree-Hugger-know-it-alls. If we don’t end the world, God will just end it Himself. We’ve got to do our duty to speed up the process. The Bible says that God has given the world and everything in it for man to use. God wants us to do with it whatever we please! From Genesis, Chapter 1:26 we learn that God has given us dominion over “every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth!” So much for endangered species! That’s why we have an Endangered Species Dinner each year here at Landover! To celebrate God’s love for wild game hunters! And show that God has given us any species or plant we want to eat, even if it happens to be the last of its kind! Amen? In Genesis Chapter 1:29, the Lord continues letting us know that he has given us “every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of the earth.” And we just learned recently that plants create the air we breathe. God is telling us then, that we can use up the air in any way we see fit! Once the air is gone, it just means that Jesus will come back, so the more pollution, the better! Glory! In verse 30 of the same chapter, He affirms the fact that we have dominion over “every single living thing on earth,” and our environment is a living thing! Folks, that means we can do whatever we want with anything we like! If we use it all up, we have to have faith that the Lord will return and provide for us again. If you follow God’s rules, supply and demand doesn’t mean a lick. I think I speak for the Lord here, when I say, “use it or lose it.” Oh, ye of little faith! Don’t you know that God can simply sweep his robe across the clouds and create clean air again, if He wills it?
Friends, I’m going to get a little controversial now, but someone has to speak the truth. The sissy Christians who pick and choose whatever Bible verse they like to fit their latest agenda will burn in Hell and give off just as pleasing a scent to the nostrils of the Lord as any hell bound, America hating Muslim will. It is these pansy, false Christians whose liberal ideas are polluting the spiritual truth of God’s Word. I’ll say it now, and I’ll say it again and again! If you are a True Christian™, you shouldn’t be recycling. True Christians™ shouldn’t be attending Global Warming rallies, or be celebrating Earth Day. True Christians™ understand that worrying about such things, or supporting such efforts is in direct conflict with the Word of God! Friends, we can sum up our Evangelical stand on “Conservation” by making all these fancy scientifical types understand one truth: That is if Jesus can feed five thousand people with two stinky fish and five loaves of stale bread, He can certainly turn the lights back on and make clean air by just burping! Oh, Glory! Glory!
I ask that you share this message with your brothers and sisters in Christ who are not blessed enough to attend our Godly church. Rebuke them strongly for taking an interest in the fate of our planet! Tell them you are ashamed at their lack of faith and share some of the Scriptures I’ve shared with you here. Satan has shifted his trickery into high gear during these last days. He’ll do anything he can do to deter you from keeping on the straight and narrow path to Heaven. He is trying everything he can to make your mind wander into worldy concerns and get you to stop warning people about the only real threat to humanity! That threat, we know from the New Testament is God’s threat! Friends, getting a faster tan and a little extra sunshine from Global Warming, doesn’t hold a candle to having the skin boiled off one’s body by bubbling lava in the Lake of Fire! And that fact, my Godly brothers and sisters in Christ, should be more disconcerting than anything Lucifer and his army of hook-nosed liberals and pointy-tailed demons can pull out of their fancy behinds!
There seems to be two debates about this all, is Global warming real and if so how much is man made?
From studying the evidence from passed times of dramatic climate changes, CO2 does play a good part in it. Higher levels are shown during dramatic spikes in temperature in both directions. Extreme periods of cold and heat. And they occurred prior to the invention of the gas engine.
Certainly the Addison of CO2 by man does not help the situation, but is not needed by nature for it to occur.
The warming of the earth allows for other greenhouse gases such as Methane to be released. The thinning of the ozone layer allows for the radiation from the sun to pass through. All adding to the heating of the earth and the warming of the Global.
But again is there cause for alarm and what can we do to prepare for such a event?
Monkeyhawk, it is foolhardy to underestimate the stupidly of the individual. After reading the sermon my question is was that a parody or an actual sermon? Living in the land of Fred Phelps I know it can go either way.
Yeah, “writerdog” –
Hard to tell, sometimes, huh?
LOL!
I guess the ‘debate’ is alive and well!
It is a parody.
“Real” Christians don’t concern themselves with what Jesus said, much less to actually try to live the “way, the truth, the light”.
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Political_mama
Posted June 15, 2008 at 6:44 am | Permalink
“Hank, what about the Cato Institute and the Heritage foundation? Those groups do the exact same things that you complain about Soros doing, I guess its wrong if our side plays by your rules?”
Well, actually P-Mom, that’s not entirely accurate. George Soros funds many left-wing organizations mainly to attack the conservative position and limit debate.
The Cato Institute strives to widen debate and involve the lay person in the debate. It is not controlled or financed by one individual or ideology.
The Heritage Foundation is similar. If I had to describe them, Cato-Libertarian Heritage-Conservative
George Soros has a very left wing political agenda and he pretty much has bought the Democrat Party. Hansen is a bought and paid for political whore with no real climate change credentials other than he consistently supports the party line.
While the debate may rage on in some minds, 60+% of Americans believe that climate change is happening and that humans share responsibility for the change.
Hey Dog,
Paster Deacon Fred is a famous (or infamous) atheist. MonkeyHawk’s attempt to use his ’sermon’ to denigrate the Christian position on the environment is like me using Monty Python to bolster mine.
Python away…Hank…that would be great!
It’s not as if the Bush White House hasn’t been ignoring the Pentagon report on global warming, as well. I’m beginning to equate the global warming denier crowd with the people who tell us dinosaurs and humans lived together. Quality of life, reason, the “proof” they always claim to want, accountablity, and responsibility, etc, just aren’t a part of their process.
The starker reality with these people is that they don’t have a process. They blurt out anything and then try to rearrange reality to fit their, I know, very strongly held feelings. I’m not supposed to snatch away from them the “feelings” approach to defining your opponent. They think they have that all locked up in their description of anyone who disagrees with them – the bleeding hearts, the sissies. But, sorry, they’re just bullies. They’re emotionally unsat, belligerent, name-callers who could care less about “proof.” They have no process except to be more aggressive, less respectful, less articulate and more threatening and intimidating to get their way -on any topic.
And they will do this to the demise of the inhabitants of this planet for nothing more than to insist they are “right.” And by the time it becomes clear they are not “right” it will be too late for too many.
Fortunately CK, their kind is only about 26% of the American population.
They must be challenged every step of the way.
Many Christians are beginning to realize that they must be GOOD stewards of the Earth and abandoning the neoCon insanity.
“KansasNative” notes –
“While the debate may rage on in some minds, 60+% of Americans believe that climate change is happening and that humans share responsibility for the change.”
And it’s a distraction from the real issue at hand: the world’s energy future.
The Climate Change deniers ride their hoary old merry-go-round, first sniveling that there’s no such thing, then saying there is such a thing but it has nothing to do with humans burning fossil fuels, then admitting Global Warming exists due in part to 250 years of fossils fueling the Industrial Revolution but claiming it’s too late or too expensive or too inconvenient to change the way we’ve “always” done it…
Meanwhile, there are dozens of other reasons fossil fuels have to be phased out, including peace in the Middle East, inefficient use of finite resources, commodities speculation, price gouging that attacks the very foundation of the world’s economy….
There is also so little competition which is why we see this going no with the gas prices.
There is every good reason to get off big oil’s teat and utilize the technology we have now to go green.
I’m sure that it took a lot to put all the power and gas lines to every house when they first started ou too. I’m sure that it took a lot of growing pains in transport and refineries and gas stations. That didn’t stop them from changing. We can do the same thing with renewables. There simply is no good reason not to do it.
Celtic, at that time they’ll claim Armageddon and wait to be raised into the air.
“The Cato Institute strives to widen debate and involve the lay person in the debate. It is not controlled or financed by one individual or ideology.
”
So whats mine is junk and whats yours is Gold. Damn it must be nice being so gullible Hank.
You really think that your right wingers aren’t funding your groups too?
Moveon would be nothing without the supporters. Just like your groups.
EVEN IF you remove the global warming argument, going green is just the right thing to do.
Walking in lockstep on GW issue is not being a good steward of the earth. It does not mean that you are an environmentalist. It simply means that you have bought into an educated guess as to the future climate change.
Global temps have been flat for about 10 years now. We have recently learned from NASA that global temperatures will be flat or lower for the next 20 to 30 years. Talk about an inconvenient truth! Someone be sure to ask Mr. Hanson about that. We also have a continued solar minimum which may depress temperatures further.
What this moderating of the climate does is offer us an opportunity to study alternatives, solutions, and to see if science can improve the climate models that have been so inaccurate. But for man-made global warming activists it is desperation time. Because with temperatures no longer warming, and educated voices saying “hey, wait a minute, what is the need for this mega-costly “urgent action”?”, the sense of urgency that they have so carefully built will soon be fading away.
The amusing fact about all the AGW hype is that there is no real consensus. The gloom and doom AGW fascists have no real consensus!
Where is it? When were the details of this consensus formulated? Who signed it?
No my friends, there is no consensus. Just a political movement to control our lives and shout down anyone with an original or different view.
There is no single Christian position on on gw
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5194527
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/moral_climate.php
Is there a moral imperative to address climate change? Former Vice President Al Gore argued this point in An Inconvenient Truth. Not everyone’s convinced, though: a group of American conservative Christian leaders, including James Dobson (pictured), Gary L. Bauer, Tony Perkins and Paul Weyrich, sent a letter to the National Association of Evangelicals on Thursday that chastised the group for its recent focus on the climate crisis. The signers of the letter argued that NAE’s vice president for government affairs, the Rev. Richard Cizik, is diverting the faithful from more pressing moral matters, particularly abortion and homosexuality. According to the New York Times, the letter represents a growing rift between established leadership on the Christian right, and “…challengers who are pushing to expand the evangelical movement’s agenda to include issues like climate change and human rights.”
“
Sun Jun 15, 8:44 AM ET
SAN DIEGO – If there’s pain at the pump in the U.S., Mexico may just have a remedy. A gallon of regular unleaded gasoline in San Diego retails for an average price of $4.61 a gallon. A few miles south, in Tijuana, it’s about $2.54 — even less if you pay in pesos.
The differential in diesel is even greater, selling at $5.04 a gallon in San Diego County and $2.20 in Tijuana.
Gas is cheaper in Mexico because of a government subsidy intended to keep inflationary forces in check.
While you can’t save THAT much, in Wichita, Dillons sells gas 15 cents cheaper (with a + card) than Quik Trip.
And you aren’t tempted to buy crap food while you’re there.
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/catalyst/exxon-exposed.html
By Emily Robinson
Despite the overwhelming scientific consensus that global warming is not only real but also the result of human activities, ExxonMobil, the largest oil and gas company in the world, has managed to deceive the public on this issue through a sophisticated disinformation campaign not unlike the one that misled the public about the health risks of cigarette smoking. Taking a page out of the tobacco industry’s playbook, the company has not only underwritten the publication of non-peer-reviewed (and widely discredited) climate research, but it has also enlisted some of the same organizations and individuals that represented Big Tobacco’s interests in years past.
The full text of Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air is available from our publications page. You can also call (617) 547-5552 to order a printed copy for $10.
UCS, with the help of investigative journalist Seth Shulman, detailed this strategy in a new report, Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air: How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco’s Tactics to Manufacture Uncertainty on Climate Change. Our investigation concluded that the company spent nearly $16 million over a seven-year period to amplify the voices of a small group of climate contrarians and to delay government action that would require corporations to reduce their heat-trapping emissions. ExxonMobil’s huge share of global warming pollution—equivalent to 138 million metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2004—is exceeded by only five countries.
As concern over global warming has grown, some oil companies such as BP, Occidental Petroleum, and Shell have made public commitments to reducing their heat-trapping emissions and have begun investing in clean energy technologies. ExxonMobil has made no such commitment, instead choosing to confuse the public’s understanding of the problem.
Anatomy of a Campaign
This strategy comprises the following tactics pioneered by the tobacco industry:
Manufacturing uncertainty. The tobacco companies came to the conclusion that they need not prove their products safe as long as they could “maintain doubt” about the health risks. As one famous Brown & Williamson memo put it in the late 1960s, “Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the ‘body of fact’ that exists in the minds of the general public.”
Similarly, ExxonMobil has attempted to sow doubt about society’s (and by extension, ExxonMobil’s) contribution to global warming. In 1998, the company helped create a task force called the Global Climate Science Team, members of which included Randy Randol, ExxonMobil’s senior environmental lobbyist at the time; Joe Walker, public relations representative for the American Petroleum Institute; and Stephen Milloy, who had once headed a tobacco front organization called The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition. A memo from the task force that year stated, “Victory will be achieved when average citizens understand (recognize) uncertainties in climate science” and when public “recognition of uncertainty becomes part of the ‘conventional wisdom.’”
“Laundering” information. Between 1998 and 2005, ExxonMobil funded a network of at least 43 advocacy organizations that disseminate misleading information about global warming. These include high-profile groups such as the Competitive Enterprise Institute (which actively opposes mandatory action to curb global warming) as well as lesser-known organizations such as the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow. Many of these groups have an overlapping—and sometimes identical—collection of spokespeople serving as staff, board members, or scientific advisors.
By giving money to both established and practically unknown groups, ExxonMobil has created a vast “echo chamber” that repeats the same disinformation about global warming but gives the appearance of widespread debate among experts. Confounding the matter further is ExxonMobil’s simultaneous funding of reputable research institutions, which serves as “cover” for its disinformation campaign.
I often wonder if God isn’t sitting up in heaven, shaking his head and saying, “What is it with these people? I send signs, and they ignore them. I send warnings, and they deny them. Maybe it’s time to wipe out everyone and everything again and start from scratch. Oh, and this time, no big boat to fill with one of every species. What a waste of natural resources, and they obviously never learn. Nope, a complete do-over is what’s needed.” Or is that what GW is all about, but this time it’s going to be slow and painful.
The signers of the letter argued that NAE’s vice president for government affairs, the Rev. Richard Cizik, is diverting the faithful from more pressing moral matters, particularly abortion and homosexuality.
The faithful won’t need to worry about those more pressing moral matters, because there won’t BE anything or anyone left, even them.
LOL!!
Annie!!
The Union of Concerned Scientists is owned by George Soros and Teresa Heinz-Kerry!!
It’s not a union of concerned scientists, it’s an organization of political grant whores and academic nitwits!
Where’s their scientific work product? Where can I go to find their mutually signed consensus?
Consensus on AGW is a hoax. It’s a myth. There are as many credible scientists that disagree with AGW as agree, maybe even more!
“There are as many credible scientists that disagree with AGW as agree, maybe even more!”
Keep repeating that, Mr. Price, keep repeating that.
Pretty soon, you will have yourself convinced.
The Open Society Institute (OSI), a private operating and grantmaking foundation, aims to shape public policy to promote democratic governance, human rights, and economic, legal, and social reform. On a local level, OSI implements a range of initiatives to support the rule of law, education, public health, and independent media. At the same time, OSI works to build alliances across borders and continents on issues such as combating corruption and rights abuses.
One of the aims of the OSI is the development of civil society organisations (e.g., charities, community groups and trade unions) to encouraging participation in democracy and society.
Contents [hide]
1 History
2 Initiatives
3 Further reading
4 See also
5 External links
5.1 tags
[edit] History
OSI was created in 1993 by investor George Soros to support his foundations in Central and Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. Those foundations were established, starting in 1984, to help countries make the transition from communism. OSI has expanded the activities of the Soros Foundations network to other areas of the world where the transition to democracy is of particular concern. The Soros foundations network encompasses more than 60 countries, including the United States. Controversial OSI projects included the Lindesmith Center and others dealing with drug reform.
Damn Commies!
“The Union of Concerned Scientists is owned by George Soros and Teresa Heinz-Kerry!!”
Almost as bad as those g#d d#mn Sierra Clubbers lol hehe chortle snort guffaw rofl
McIntyre, the Canadian Mathmetician who found the bug in NASA software sponsored by Dr. Jim Hanse: (Wikipedia)
Closing the circle: my original interest in GISS adjustment procedures was not an abstract interest, but a specific interest in whether GISS adjustment procedures were equal to the challenge of “fixing” bad data. If one views the above assessment as a type of limited software audit (limited by lack of access to source code and operating manuals), one can say firmly that the GISS software had not only failed to pick up and correct fictitious steps of up to 1 deg C, but that GISS actually introduced this error in the course of their programming.
Why temperature averages are a hoax.
This Satellite shot demonstrates the urban island heat effect. i.e. (lights = heat(infrared) source)
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040822.html
The main conclusion is that micro- and local-scale impacts dominate the meso-scale impact of the urban heat island: many sections of towns may be warmer than rural sites, but meteorological observations are likely to be made in park “cool islands.”
How the Alarmists fiddle with temperature data to make it come out like they want.
When compiling temperature records, NASA GISS go to great pains to remove any possible influence from Urban Heat Island Effect. They compare urban long term trends to nearby rural trends. They then adjust the urban trend so it matches the rural trend. The process is described in detail on the NASA website (Hansen 2001).
http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2001/2001_Hansen_etal.pdf
i.e., the satellite image shows where increased temperatures have occurred and they are all near populated urban centers.
Proxy data for thousands of years has not been sufficiently digitized in order to reach a comprehensive solution of comparing modern day temperature readings with those of the past to show that the current warming is unusual.
The smoothing of curves and making data “fit” is bad science and statistical gathering. McIntyre has already shown that computer software was in error. What else can be found in error, with just this small microscopic view of the Alarmist’s data sets? Who knows?
The science is not settled and it appears that Alarmist Climate Science has many flaws and has not relied on the accumulation of observational data like they should, but making ‘make believe’ data sets from computer climate model predictions.
Where is HLP getting his info.? From Rush?
From Wilkipedia again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Concerned_Scientists
The group was formed by MIT scientist and students.
Gosh, thats easy… George Soros owns MIT, dont ya know that??? /Sarcasm off/
During the Putin years, Russian security forces were ordered to arrest George Soros on sight if he tried to enter the Country, because of the all the misery and hardship he had caused with his speculation and currency runs. As a previous poster said, George Soros has bought the Democratic party. What a sack of Sh#t. So much for the Democratic party being the party of the little guy.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
Are you “slow”? Do you have no ability to remember facts?
Or do you lie about climate science, because the truth does not support your false opinions?
I have explained this to you before — there was not a “bug” in the GISTEMP software. It was a data correction problem.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/
“August 7, 2007: A discontinuity in station records in the U.S. was discovered and corrected (GHCN data for 2000 and later years were inadvertently appended to USHCN data for prior years without including the adjustments at these stations that had been defined by the NOAA National Climate Data Center). This had a small impact on the U.S. average temperature, about 0.15°C, for 2000 and later years, and a negligible effect on global temperature, as is shown here.
This August 2007 change received international attention via discussions on various blogs and repetition by some other media, with no graphs provided to show the insignificance of the effect. Further discussions of the curious misinformation are provided by Dr. Hansen on his personal webpage (e.g., his post on “The Real Deal: Usufruct & the Gorilla”).
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/distro_realdeal.16aug20074.pdf ”
———–
Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre tried to show that “urban heat effect” made the GISTEMP data invalid.
AGAIN multi-nic’d ‘Regular’, do you have an update on their analysis?
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2007/09/deniers-rediscover-hockey-stick.html
“To be honest, this is starting to look like a great validation of GISTEMP.”
I believe he was to be arrested because of his grass roots support of over throwing the established order of communism. He was a threat to their system. Spin spin spin.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
“This Satellite shot demonstrates the urban island heat effect. i.e. (lights = heat(infrared) source)”
And this map shows the greatest warming anomaly is mostly in the RURAL upper northern latitudes.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007/Fig1_2007annual.gif
Maybe the Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’s’ IH engineering degree causes him to believe that the Earth is like a globe on a desk — and since heat rises, heat from cities “rises” north?
Notice how cosmos minces words when software written to extrapolate temperatures out, it is not a bug.
I don’t know cosmos, but when a database written by a software company puts out false data and the inputs are accurate, then the bug is in the software.
Besides, why manipulate the temperatures anyway? Take them as they are, no need to try to make urban temperatures to match with rural temperatures. That’s just massaging numbers to get the results you want and unscientific hocus pocus.
Notice how cosmos cannot refrain from the ad hominem.
The debate is over.
There will always be hecklers, out on the fringe making noise.
But the debate is over.
Global warming IS real. Human activity DOES contribute to it. This is indisputable, proven, science.
We will now begin to address global warming proactively. We have to.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted,
“… when a database written by a software company puts out false data and the inputs are accurate, then the bug is in the software.”
Sadly, it appears that Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ is very “slow”.
The problem McIntyre noticed was caused by the corrections not being applied to the “input” data. Those corrections made the input data, and output, more accurate.
The data processing software was not changed — the bug was not in the software.
Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre tried to show that “urban heat effect” made the GISTEMP data invalid.
AGAIN multi-nic’d ‘Regular’, do you have an update on their analysis?
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2007/09/deniers-rediscover-hockey-stick.html
“To be honest, this is starting to look like a great validation of GISTEMP.”
Since cosmos keeps referring to McIntyre and claiming that there were no bugs in the software, let me quote McIntyre once again.
McIntyre, the Canadian Mathmetician who found the bug in NASA software sponsored by Dr. Jim Hanse: (Wikipedia)
Closing the circle: my original interest in GISS adjustment procedures was not an abstract interest, but a specific interest in whether GISS adjustment procedures were equal to the challenge of “fixing” bad data. If one views the above assessment as a type of limited software audit (limited by lack of access to source code and operating manuals), one can say firmly that the GISS software had not only failed to pick up and correct fictitious steps of up to 1 deg C, but that GISS actually introduced this error in the course of their programming.
cosmos once again makes false claims about what has been written and makes false claim on what McIntyre himself has written.
cosmos is under the impression, along with many Climate Alarmists, that climate can be engineered and controlled by reducing certain gases.
First off, climate is not derived from a single set of statistics nor is it dependent on temperature changes just from one gas.
Secondly, climate change is highly susceptible to natural variations that occur such as oscillations (El Ninjo, La Nina) and NAO (North Atlantic Oscillations.)
Thirdly, one cannot be generalistic about climate in regards to natural variation and then show specific scare tactics such as Arctic sea ice melting. The wind flow and other devices such as ‘mixing’ causes seasonal influences on ice shelves, which by the way float on top of sea water. To point out specific incidences during short time frames indicates nothing about long term climate, in only indicates that change is going in a specific area and for specific reasons, co2 not being one of them.
Those who believe that Climate can be controlled and engineered by altering the use of one gas (co2) are likely to believe in garden fairies and the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’,
So McIntyre is saying that the GISS software should automatically detect, and correct any and all errors in the input data?
How is the GISS software supposed to inspect the temperature stations, movement, hours, UHI, etc?
Anthony Watts and Steve McIntyre tried to show that the temperature “input” data was invalid.
AGAIN multi-nic’d ‘Regular’, do you have an update on their analysis?
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2007/09/deniers-rediscover-hockey-stick.html
“To be honest, this is starting to look like a great validation of GISTEMP”.
‘August 2007 Update and Effects’
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/updates/200708.html
“Recently it was realized that the monthly more-or-less-automatic updates of our global temperature analysis had a flaw in the U.S. data. We wish to thank Stephen McIntyre for bringing to our attention that this flaw might be present.
In the 2001 update (described in Hansen et al. [2001]) of the analysis method (originally published in Hansen et al. [1981]), we included improvements that NOAA had made in station records in the U.S., their corrections being based mainly on station-by-station information about station movement, change of time-of-day at which max-min are recorded, etc.
Unfortunately, we didn’t realize that these corrections would not continue to be readily available in the near-real-time data streams. The same stations are in the GHCN (Global Historical Climatology Network) data stream, however, and thus what our analysis picked up in subsequent years was station data without the NOAA correction. Obviously, combining the uncorrected GHCN with the NOAA-corrected records for earlier years caused jumps in 2000 in the records at those stations, some up, some down (over U.S. only). This problem is easy to fix, by matching the 1990s decadal-mean temperatures for the NOAA-corrected and GHCN records, and we have made that correction.”
Notice that cosmos keeps referencing a website (bigcitylib) about McIntyre’s statements.
So tell me cosmos and everyone else here, why don’t you go to McIntyre’s own Website and find those words?
It’s located here:
http://www.climateaudit.org/
cosmos loves to use weasle statements from Lib Websites. Instead of going to the source, cosmos will use supposed statements made by someone at sometime, somewhere.
So cosmos, now that you know the real website for McIntyre, you have no excuses for not to keep writing false claims about what someone has said or written.
Those who believe that Climate can be controlled and engineered by altering the use of one gas (co2) are likely to believe in garden fairies and the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted,
“First off, climate is not derived from a single set of statistics nor is it dependent on temperature changes just from one gas.”
Well duuhhhhh! Don’t you know that climate scientist also include CH4, N2O, CFC’s, SF6, etc?
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’: “Secondly, climate change is highly susceptible to natural variations that occur such as oscillations (El Ninjo, La Nina) and NAO (North Atlantic Oscillations.)”
And WHY do you believe that the AGW scientist’s do not know about “natural variations”?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007
“2007 tied 1998, which had leapt a remarkable 0.2°C above the prior record with the help of the “El Niño of the century”. The unusual warmth in 2007 is noteworthy because it occurs at a time when solar irradiance is at a minimum and the equatorial Pacific Ocean is in the cool phase of its natural El Niño-La Niña cycle.”
Flail your arms wildly some more Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’. Keep proving to everyone that you are 100% clueless about climate science.
cosmos wildly flails his arms and tries to catch up, yet still pushes his agenda on co2 and carbon credits daily.
Notice how cosmos readily admits there is more to climate than just co2.
However, even while admitting there is more to climate than co2, cosmos still pushes the GORACLE’s agenda on killing economies with oppressive co2 laws and taxes.
Hypocrite anyone?
Those who believe that Climate can be controlled and engineered by altering the use of one gas (co2) are likely to believe in garden fairies and the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
Regular keeps beating a dead horse.
Even Bush says GW is real and man causes it.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ posted,
“Those who believe that Climate can be controlled and engineered by altering the use of one gas (co2) are likely to believe in garden fairies and the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.”
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/wethring.htm
“The rise of the Appalachian Mountains may have caused a major ice age approximately 450 million years ago, an Ohio State University study has found.
The weathering of the mountains pulled carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere, causing the opposite of a greenhouse effect — an “icehouse” effect.
…
It also reinforces the notion that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are a major driver of Earth’s climate.”
cosmos_originally
Posted June 15, 2008 at 3:10 pm
“The rise of the Appalachian Mountains may have caused a major ice age approximately 450 million years ago, an Ohio State University study has found.
The weathering of the mountains pulled carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere, causing the opposite of a greenhouse effect — an “icehouse” effect.
————————————
cosmos is under the impression that a major geological event such as the rise of an entire mountain range is the same as the fumes coming from the exhaust pipe of your car.
It appears that cosmos is asserting that some sort of engineering miracle could have prevented the rise of the Appalachian mountains and the subsequent rise in co2 from natural events.
Those who believe that Climate can be controlled and engineered by altering the use of one gas (co2) are likely to believe in garden fairies and the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
cosmos loves to refer to this study, but according to the author scientist, it is a simplistic model and is only a preliminary study with a long road ahead before conclusions can be made emphatically.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20010083083_2001137319.pdf
Clearly this short presentation leaves many open questions. There is an enormous gap between cause and effect which one must bridge in order to connect the hypothesized scenario presented in section 1 with the observations presented in Section 2. High resolution boundary layer modeling in one, two and three dimensions holds the best promise of bridging this gap. Since, as discussed in the abstract, adequate models of stable boundary laxer turbulence and radiation have yet to be developed (even conceptually), there is a long road to travel before this work is complete. This author has performed preliminary, pathfinding modeling which confirms cause and effect, and reproduces the observed icehouse signature under simplified but realistic assumptions. These results have been reported previously [1,2].
The key point the reader should extract from this presentation is that the observational data show a peculiar and unique stability dependence in the long term surface temperature trends, which is explained by the icehouse hypothesis, and would not be explained if other processes dominated the surface temperature trends.
In short, this hypothesis theory is a study on a particular incident and not a state set for predicting global climate change. The author did not say nor intend to invoke that co2 is a single source driver for climate change. This single source climate change story about the Appalachians is often brought up by the Alarmists and is a fascinating study, but it is incomplete and no forgoing conclusions cannot be drawn on global climate change.
“It also reinforces the notion that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are a major driver of Earth’s climate.”
my previous post at 3:30 pm was referring to cosmos reference to “rise of the Appalachian Mountains”
cosmos_originally
Posted June 15, 2008 at 3:31 pm | Permalink
“It also reinforces the notion that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are a major driver of Earth’s climate.”
——————————
Evidently, cosmos loves to ignore the words of Scientists warning readers not to jump to conclusions.
The scientist stated:
Since, as discussed in the abstract, adequate models of stable boundary laxer turbulence and radiation have yet to be developed (even conceptually), there is a long road to travel before this work is complete.
Dear Hank Price,
Hansen is an independent. His “favorite” in 2004 wasn’t Kerry… it was… wait for it… McCain.
And the award was made by an independent committee.
http://logicalscience.blogspot.com/2007/05/james-hansen-is-bought-by-john-kerry.html
“LOL!!
“Annie!!
“The Union of Concerned Scientists is owned by George Soros and Teresa Heinz-Kerry!!
“It’s not a union of concerned scientists, it’s an organization of political grant whores and academic nitwits!”
Somebody who regurgitates this nonsense has no business calling anyone a nitwit with a straight face.
Hank, you’ve decided on a meme for what positions a conservative takes and ran with it. The Union of Concerned Scientists is an organization with an agenda (and therefore, some skepticism is called for when they are used as a source), but to dismiss it as you have reveals far more about what and how you think than it reveals about them. Particularly when you regurgitate information from organizations like the Cato Institute with a staight face and without any sort of skepticism or caution.
“Well, actually P-Mom, that’s not entirely accurate. George Soros funds many left-wing organizations mainly to attack the conservative position and limit debate.
“The Cato Institute strives to widen debate and involve the lay person in the debate. It is not controlled or financed by one individual or ideology.”
I call bullsh*t (in the Harry Frankfurt sense). You’ve picked a side, and applied one criterion to the side you don’t identify, and another one to the side you do identify with.
To claim that those who advocate action on global warming/climate change have a political agenda owned by George Soros while claiming that the Cato (Free Markets at almost any cost) is to stand reality on its head. Yes, if it was JUST the Union of Concerned Scientists, some caution would be called for, but it is not. It is people from a wide variety of social, political, and international cultures who agree that the evidence indicates global warming is attributable to human activity. On the other hand, those who oppose it are easily tied into specific political viewpoints, and it is tragic because conservatism need not be yoked with reflexively shallow, knee jerk anti-environmental reactions.
Practice what you preach Hank, if you are going to be a skeptic, be equally skeptical of anyone who makes a claim in this arena, regardless of their percieved political orientation. Until you do, you have no basis for posting LOL at people who posts sources you identify as biased, not when you do so without any sort of critical discernment yourself. Remember the list of global warming critics you used to open or try to open every open thread with? You apparently didn’t even bother to notice that they were directly and fundamentally contradicting each other. Why? Because Inhofe and his staff were not advancing a coherent argument against global warming science, their criterion was simply ANYone who was critical of the consensus position.
And happy Father’s Day.
Why the computer climate models are in error when it calculates radiant forcing.
* No sign errors in the ensemble-mean forcings from AOGCMs!
– In 228 forcing calculations, there is only sign error for one model.
• Forcing by historical changes in WMGHGs:
– Mean LW forcings agree to within ±0.12 Wm-2.
– Individual LW forcings range from 1.5 to 2.7 Wm-2 at TOM.
– This adversely affects separation of forcing from response.
– Mean SW forcings differ by up to 0.37 Wm-2 (43% error).
– Large SW errors are related to omission of CH4 and N2O.
• Largest forcing biases occur at the surface level:
– Majority of the differences in mean forcings are significant.
– Developers also should insure accuracy of forcing at the surface.
William D. Collins
National Center for Atmospheric Research
Boulder, Colorado
http://www-pcmdi.llnl.gov/wgne2007/presentations/Oral-Presentations/mon/wgne_Collins_021207.pdf
“cosmos wildly flails his arms and tries to catch up, yet still pushes his agenda on co2 and carbon credits daily.
“Notice how cosmos readily admits there is more to climate than just co2.
“However, even while admitting there is more to climate than co2, cosmos still pushes the GORACLE’s agenda on killing economies with oppressive co2 laws and taxes.
“Hypocrite anyone?
“Those who believe that Climate can be controlled and engineered by altering the use of one gas (co2) are likely to believe in garden fairies and the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.”
Note the juxtaposition of cosmos’ expression of complexity of the issue of global climate change with the staw man of extremist agendas, ending with a ad hominem invoking involving fairies and rainbows.
Classic trolling.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Does anybody know what Chicken Little actually did about the sky falling, and how much effect it ultimately had.
Same with AGW.
What’s so darn funny is those that are AGW fanatics and talk about it all the time leading to the destruction of the Earth, and those that don’t give it a second thought or worry are accomplishing the EXACT same thing with respect to outcome.
I find that humorous.
“I find that humorous.”
Of course you find it humorous – you could care less about the environment – your posts prove that.
Waiting for the End of Days, Box Head?
It shows.
“The award is very important recognition of a sizeable international effort to understand climate change,” he said.
“There are huge challenges ahead, but they are challenges that humanity can address,” he said, noting major accomplishments in recent years toward repairing damage done to the atmosphere’s ozone layer.
William D. Collins on the IPCC Nobel Prize Award. [FE]Certainly, Collins clearly thinks that anthropogenic global climate change is nothing to be concerned about.[/FE]
Finding error in climate models is how science should be done, but it part of the aggregate effort. The results, much less the hypothesis, are hardly tossed because of the possibility of error. Science is always tentative.
This was in response to a non-trollish post.
ksagnostic,
What’s really ironic is that Hank Price insists that Oklahoma Senator Inhofe’s anti-AGW list is credible.
That list was compiled by Marc Morano, who has many ties to right-wing media.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano
Morano was “previously known as Rush Limbaugh’s ‘Man in Washington,’ as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show, as well as a former correspondent and producer for American Investigator, the nationally syndicated TV newsmagazine.”
First off, we need to get past all this man versus nature crap. Man and every oil refinery and chemical plant we build are just exactly as much a part of nature as any bunny rabbit or squirrel. Everything is nature.
Second, we need to get past the idea that we’re destroying the planet. When we’re gone, the planet will still be here and doing just fine, thank you. What we are destroying are our own chances of survival as a species.
Third, we need to realize that while CO2 and Methane are greenhouse gasses and our hand in creating them should probably be limited as much as possible, we don’t know enough and will never know enough about climate to attempt to tamper with it in any big way.
Our planet is and always has been a dynamic environment. That’s what made life possible. It has had periods of extreme green house heating, and cooled (twice) to the point of being completely frozen over for millions of years. Life managed.
Life managed because it adapts, and we’re an adaptable species. Yes, limit greenhouse gasses, find alternative energy sources (and swear to never get as dependent on any one as we have with petroleum) and figure out how to survive the climate change if, as I suspect, cutting emissions is too little too late. Sure, that’s a tall order, but if we manage to survive everything we’ve done to ourselves, maybe we’ll have earned the right to live here. And maybe even expand to other planets. If not, nature will create another species to fill our niche.
“I’s not a union of concerned scientists, it’s an organization of political grant whores and academic nitwits!”
All organizations I am proud to be associated with. Hank I will wear my academic nitwit and political grant whore badge of honor proudly with humility and conviction. Thank you for bestowing your accolades from the flat earth anti science crowd. May your g#d have mercy on me,
There are SO few among us who steadfastly continue to deny human caused global warming. The numbers of such people dwindle every day.
It is worth analyzing these strange people who can see facts, science and what just what is in front of and all around them and still deny reality.
We find here and elsewhere that many, perhaps most such people have an unusually strong embrace of fundamentalist Christianity.
I think in a way that they don’t know, these people will not face the truth because they are afraid. They are afraid to admit and accept that man can have a profound effect on “creation”. Perhaps for them, this diminishes their God in their eyes. For man to have such power, well maybe it takes away some from God.
That is sad. For it is a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith to be good stewards of “creation”.
It’s also not terribly logical. A group of human beings no more in numbers than would fill a small church could alter this planet and destroy virtually all life on it in the space of a few hours. Let alone seven days. So far, we have managed to avoid that. It COULD be argued that God is acting behind the scenes to steer us away from that. But of course there would be no proof.
I wonder if such folk have considered this.
Perhaps the overwhelming and growing evidence of and acceptance as to human caused global warming is a between the lines message from God?
A less gentle way to say that. If ten men are telling you you’re drunk, you really ought to lie down.
‘The Big Thaw’
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/the-big-thaw/
“The blogosphere is buzzing with discussion of new research soon to be published in Geophysical Research Letters, Accelerated Arctic land warming and permafrost degradation during rapid sea ice loss (Lawrence et al. 2008, GRL, in press, scheduled for publication tomorrow), a collaboration between researchers from NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research) and NSIDC (National Snow and Ice Data Center).
Their research indicates that, in large part due to the rapid reduction of summer sea ice in the arctic, land areas in the far north will warm much faster than the rest of the globe. This would lead to rapid melting of permafrost, which in turn could release massive stores of CO2 trapped in the permafrost.”
WSClark posts,
“Of course you find it humorous – you could care less about the environment – your posts prove that.”
And just what are you doing that is ’saving the world’, Mr. Greenhouse Man?
I would venture to say you give off volumes more ‘greenhouse gases’ than I do. Mostly from belching and other obnoxious gaseous releases.
Walgreens has a deal on CFL bulbs this week, I bought a half dozen more and now have about 20 replacing incandescents.
So what….think that makes any difference? NO!
sing it pastor Ted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhcScBdnEhY&feature=related
Be careful with those bulbs Boxlock!
All Things Considered, February 15, 2007 · The Environmental Protection Agency and some large business, including Wal-Mart, are aggressively promoting the sale of compact fluorescent light bulbs as a way to save energy and fight global warming. They want Americans to buy many millions of them over the coming years.
But the bulbs contain small amounts of mercury, a neurotoxin, and the companies and federal government haven’t come up with effective ways to get Americans to recycle them.
“The problem with the bulbs is that they’ll break before they get to the landfill. They’ll break in containers, or they’ll break in a dumpster or they’ll break in the trucks. Workers may be exposed to very high levels of mercury when that happens,” says John Skinner, executive director of the Solid Waste Association of North America, the trade group for the people who handle trash and recycling.
Skinner says when bulbs break near homes, they can contaminate the soil.
Mercury is a potent neurotoxin, and it’s especially dangerous for children and fetuses. Most exposure to mercury comes from eating fish contaminated with mercury,
Some states, cities and counties have outlawed putting CFL bulbs in the trash, but in most states the practice is legal.
Calling yourself an independent is simply a way to not feel ashamed for who you do vote for.
(Bush)… said that there was now a recognition that that richer countries needed to “transfer out of the hydrocarbon economy”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4107327.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164
Sorry, guys, but even your Bush-daddy has abandoned you.
Advantages (less mercury from coal fired plants, etc) and cleanup of CFL’s,
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
I save the CFL’s package. When it burns out in a few years, put it back in and securely tape it closed. Then eventually turn in at recycle center.
Old thermostats and thermometers had well over 100 times the amount of mercury than a CFL has. I wonder if the anti-CFL crowd were that paranoid about mercury back then?
BTW, it takes about 85 cans of Albacore tuna to equal one light bulb. Better eat your fish in the dark if you are scared of light bulbs.
Not trying to be nasty here but as far as the 4 to 6 mg. of mercury in a CFL, I’m no more worried about that than I am AGW, which is right next to zero. A statistically insignificant measurement at best.
At least I’m am trying to do my part though.
Of course if the wind stops blowing, and we have no back up coal plants, it won’t make any difference what kind of light bulbs I have….they all be off, as well as everything else. Now that should please the AGW fanatics, don’t ya think?
Heck, my Dad was a dentist and I was around mercury frequently…played with it. Ooooh, maybe that’s what’s wrong with me and the reason I’m not a liberal too. No, that’s not it, I used to be much more liberal back then. I bet the mercury level in my body slowly came down and I became more conservative and sensible as it did.
Nathaniel
Posted June 15, 2008 at 5:44 pm | Permalink
Calling yourself an independent is simply a way to not feel ashamed for who you do vote for.
What bullshit sea monkey — being independent means being able to think for one’s self and not swallow all the crap both parties put out — but you wouldn’t know — you haven’t had an original thought since day 1 …..
I see that the jawless fish has made an entry.
Well, McCluer, since you are always advocating a physical confrontation, why don’t YOU show up at Hansen’s speech, present a copy of your Industrial Hygiene “degree” and tell him that you think he is a bought and paid for political hack of a scientist?
Prove him wrong, McLiar, show him what you got!
WSClark,
Actually, it would useful for scientists like Dr. Hansen to have a debate with multi-nic’d “Kansas values” ‘Regular’.
It would help them understand the high levels of AGW ignorance, and denial in Kansas.
From header:
“Hansen’s visit is especially timely: The Holcomb coal-plant debate revealed a broad swath of climate change denial among some of Kansas’ top lawmakers.”
For example, poor multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ just cannot understand that global CO2 levels can only be accurately measured at remote sites, where it is well-mixed.
Multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ aka Republican posted April 16, 2007 at 12:01 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/04/is_there_a_carb/#comment-253676
“By the way, the Consensus Scientists don’t use the early Flask Data available because it is inconvenient. The CO2 levels have not reached 400 ppm yet, but in the 1940s it was above 400ppm with lower temperatures. And before Cosmos or anyone says that the data is incorrect. The Consensus Scientists only examined 10 percent of the data and gave it a less than 1 percent on average inaccuracy rate.
That means by looking at the Flask Data prior to 1970, there were 13 occasions were CO2 was as high or higher than it is today with lower temperatures.”
——–
I bet Dr. Hansen would really be impressed by Hank Price’s claim. /sarcasm off
“Consensus on AGW is a hoax. It’s a myth. There are as many credible scientists that disagree with AGW as agree, maybe even more!”
———
Hank has the bogus, old OISM petition. Just how many degrees is “catastrophic warming”? 25 degrees F.? 50? more?
Hank has a list compliled by Rush’s ex-employee, with economists, TV weatherpeople, and scientists who haven’t done climate science, And some climate scientists who agree with AGW, and don’t belong on the list.
And Hank has lists by an agricultural economist, Dennis Avery, of climate scientists who actually agree with AGW, and don’t belong on the lists.
In short, Hank is very wrong.
University of Alabama, Huntsville (UAH) published their satellite derived Advanced Microwave Sounder Unit data set of the Lower Troposphere for May 2008.
What they are saying is that it is actually getting COLDER. And May alone has wiped out ALL the warming during the last 100 years.
Graph of data here. Earth has Dropped almost a full degree.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/uah-global-temperature-dives-in-may/
It is significantly colder globally, colder even than the significant drop to -0.046°C seen in January 2008.
The global ?T from April to May 2008 was -.195°C
UAH
2008 1 -0.046
2008 2 0.020
2008 3 0.094
2008 4 0.015
2008 5 -0.180
Compared to the May 2007 value of 0.199°C we find a 12 month ?T is -.379°C.
But even more impressive is the change since the last big peak in global temperature in January 2007 at 0.594°C, giving a 16 month ?T of -0.774°C which is equal in magnitude to the generally agreed upon “global warming signal” of the last 100 years.
And they are not Soros paid
Reports from the North, too warm for seals!
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.
A RealClimate blogger? No, that was the US Weather Bureau in 1922.
(chortles)
Poor multi-nic’d ‘Regular’ also cannot understand the obvious difference between “global” and “regional”.
That’s yet another reason that he is an AGW denier.
A good read on some of Dr. Hansen’s climate work,
‘Earth’s Temperature Tracker’
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/features/temptracker/
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