Maybe now people will stop believing that thousands of illegal immigrants are receiving public assistance in Kansas. Unfortunately, dispelling the myth cost taxpayers millions of dollars and cost thousands of citizens their health insurance.
Kansas Medicaid director Andy Allison told state lawmakers this week that it cost the state $1 million to comply with new federal requirements that Medicaid recipients provide proof of citizenship, and that 20,000 eligible Kansans lost their health insurance because they had difficulty producing the required documentation. So how many illegal immigrants did the state catch in this crackdown? One.
Other states have had similar results. In fact, Kansas actually did better than Colorado, which spent $2 million and didn’t catch a single illegal immigrant seeking benefits.
“State taxpayers are picking up the dollars-and-cents costs of a failed federal policy,” complained Senate Majority Leader Derek Schmidt, R-Independence.
72 Comments
20,000 failed to provide documentation that they were citizens?
That’s proof enough for me.
Christ, how difficult is it to come up with a Drivers License, or Social Security Card, or Birth Certificate? Come on guys, there’s certain basic requirements for adults – and maintaining your ID is one of them.
“Kansas Medicaid director Andy Allison said 20,000 eligible Kansans lost health insurance. And the state had to spend about $1 million to hire more personnel to handle telephone calls, applications and determine eligibility.”
Ahhh, if 20,000 lost their coverage because they weren’t Americans, then what was the SAVINGS from not paying for health care for 20,000 non-Americans?
I bet it more then offset that $1 Million.
If each person would have cost $500 to provide insurance, then the savings was $10 Million.
20,000 x $200 each = $4,000,000 saved.
I think we’re making money!
Money well spent. Only 1/6 of the amount the city just put in Bill Warrens Rat Hole movie theater.
See when that money resurfaces….heh.
Plus, the crackdown for illegals lets people know some are serious and are coming for them…one way or another.
Tulsa has reduced the illegal population in the city by over 25,000. The new Oklahoma law is a new model for the entire nation. Many states are modeling their next round of legislation on it.
Hopefully our legislators are going to look at the Oklahoma model here.
The State hires incompetents. Illegal aliens know how to game the system. They use their offspring born in the United States as legal tender and family appropriation pivot points.
When the child gets 18 and become an adult, full citizen of the United States, he then further games the system for his familia by declaring himself head of household in which all benefits are paid.
duh…
Say Fleetwood, you know the average cost of health insurance PER MONTH is somewhere around $500 PER MONTH!
$500 X 20,000 X 12 = $120 Million
“Unfortunately, dispelling the myth cost taxpayers millions of dollars and cost thousands of citizens their health insurance.”
Do we want these people running our healthcare?
$120 Million per Year in Savings!
$120 Million/Year Saved in one small state of 3 Million People.
300 Million People in the US – Savings of just requiring ID Nationwide = $12 BILLION
“Christ, how difficult is it to come up with a Drivers License, or Social Security Card, or Birth Certificate?”
Of those, only a Birth Certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship.
That’s it.
fleettwood
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
“Unfortunately, dispelling the myth cost taxpayers millions of dollars and cost thousands of citizens their health insurance.”
Do we want these people running our healthcare?
————————————————–
NO.
WSClark
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:26 pm | Permalink
“Christ, how difficult is it to come up with a Drivers License, or Social Security Card, or Birth Certificate?”
Of those, only a Birth Certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship.
That’s it.
———————————————————-
So?
“Surplus state computers put up for public sale in Kansas contained sensitive information from government files, including one computer that contained 2,800 Social Security numbers.”
Do we want these people running our healthcare?
Notice this slanted thread doesn’t say how much it SAVED Kansans in Medicaid dollars, only in costs for staff to police.
And claiming the law only resulted in the arrest of one illegal immigrant is BOGUS, as we have no idea how many never attempted to apply as a result of the law, and them not wanting to be arrested.
Statistics and lies are being thrown together here.
How amusing. Eight posts and each one misses the point of the article. One person out of 20,000 was an illegal immigrant. It’s not the mexicans that are destroying our system, it’s stupid Americans!
Have we considered that the immigrants are the ones that are actually working and providing for their family, and that it’s millions of lazy americans on welfare, ect, that are taxing the system. I say keep the people who want to work here and deport the lazy people.
“Immigrant crackdown penalized taxpayers”
Must be opposite day. SpongeBob rules!!
“So?”
You made a false statement and I corrected it – that’s “so.”
“I say keep the people who want to work here and deport the lazy people.”
I say we have a system that allows legal immigration. Use it, know it, love it.
jbsaab99
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
How amusing. Eight posts and each one misses the point of the article. One person out of 20,000 was an illegal immigrant. It’s not the mexicans that are destroying our system, it’s stupid Americans!
——————————
The post didn’t say that, it said it caught one illegal immigrant.
Evidently, illegal aliens are smarter than state employees.
jbsaab99
Posted June 19, 2008 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
How amusing. Eight posts and each one misses the point of the article. One person out of 20,000 was an illegal immigrant. It’s not the mexicans that are destroying our system, it’s stupid Americans!
————————————————
No, only 1 of 20,000 was prosecuted. No where does it say only 1 was an illegal immigrant.
Oh, and btw, the ARTICLE said 10,000 eventually provided documentation, but what happened to the 10,000 others?
You really think they were Americans and simply didn’t come back with a Birth Certificate to get their free health care?
The law states that when applying or renewing for coverage you must be able to provide one of the following documents: U.S. Passport, Certificate of Naturalization, Certificate of Citizenship. If you do not have any of those then you must provide
one document for citizenship and one document for identity. For citizenship you must provide: a birth certificate or birth record, adoption records showing place of birth or military record. For identity you will need one of the following: Drivers License, Federal, State or Local ID, Military ID, Native American Tribal Document.
How about a US Passport Clark, would they accept that as evidence of US Citizenship?
Howza ’bout a military record, clark. Would they accept that?
“How about a US Passport Clark, would they accept that as evidence of US Citizenship?”
“Of those (you noted), only a Birth Certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship.”
Nathan would be very unhappy with your reading comprehension, Max.
And yes, it would be. How many people applying for assistance have a passport?
Thanks Fleetwood for correcting Clark’s errors.
Were they errors Clark or lies?
“Howza ’bout a military record, clark. Would they accept that?”
Sigh, of those NOTED……………..
I am going to report you to Nathan Price for his condemnation of your reading comprehension.
Damn, will you idiots learn to READ?
“Christ, how difficult is it to come up with a Drivers License, or Social Security Card, or Birth Certificate?”
Of those, only a Birth Certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship.
That’s it.
For Christ’s sake grow up and act like you have a clue, even if you don’t.
What part of “of those” don’t you idiots understand?
“Were they errors Clark or lies?”
Max, you are getting close to opening up a competition with Fleetwood for the BDP – you are already a lying Scroll Over poster, but you are getting quite near a BDP level.
The award is named after Fleetwood, but if you wrestle it away from her, we’ll have to call it the Maxie – or maybe the Maxine, your choice.
““The Cons on this Blog are NOTORIOUS for making statements without foundation and then failing to back them up with logic or fact.””
OOPS! Hello clark’s butt, meet bite.
I wonder if one could use an adoption record.
What do you think, clark?
Did bush have that sign put up for “Caution Illegal Crossing Zone” ?
“I wonder if one could use an adoption record.”
Yes, it is called a “Registration of Birth.”
Where did I say that ONLY a birth certificate could be used?
I tell you the same that I told Rossell, put up or STFU.
“OOPS! Hello clark’s butt, meet bite.”
Copy and paste what I DID NOT back up, asshole.
Max,
Here are the documentation requirements for Healthwave in KS:
HealthWave is required to get additional information
from you. If you apply for medical benefi ts, and
check yes as a U.S. citizen on the application, you
must provide proof of U.S. citizenship and identity.
Please provide copies of the following:
One of these will verify both
citizenship and identity
???? U.S. Passport
???? Certifi cate of Naturalization
???? Certifi cate of Citizenship
If you do not have any of the above mentioned
documents you must provide two forms of
documentation, one for citizenship & one for identity.
The following provides acceptable options:
One of these Citizenship documents:
???? Birth certificate or birth record
???? Adoption records showing place of birth
???? Military record
One of these Identity documents:
???? Driver’s license
???? Federal, State, or Local ID
???? Military ID
???? Native American Tribal Document
One of these will verify the identity
of a child under 16 years of age:
???? School ID
???? School records
???? Licensed or registered daycare documents
???? Medical records
I don’t know about most people, but I would think that the majority of those applying don’t have passports, so two forms of documentation are required. The above has been in effect for at least a couple of years, if not longer, yet a lot of people are POSITIVE “illegals” are using the system.
Sorry about the ????. They were boxes, originally, and obviously don’t format that way. :)
It’s kind of like the underage kid who goes to buy booze, is carded and walks out, mumbling something about how he left his ID in his other pants.
He’s still illegal.
A new Federal law is in place to get Medicaid. You must show that you are a U.S. citizen or
national and who you are. If you already have Medicaid or are applying for Medicaid, you will be
asked to document your U.S. citizenship and identity. However, if you are enrolled in Medicare or
receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI), or are a “Qualified Alien,” you will not be affected by
this new law.
The best way to show that you are a citizen and who you are is
with one of these:
? A U.S. Passport, or
? A Certificate of Naturalization (DHS Forms N-550 or N-570), or
? A Certificate of U.S. Citizenship (DHS Forms N-560 or N-561)
Document you are a citizen with:
? Your birth certificate or,
? A Report or Certification of Birth Abroad of a U.S. Citizen (form FS-240 or FS-545) or,
? U.S. Citizen I.D. Card (DHS form I-197)
? Adoption Papers
? Military Record
Show who you are with:
? Your picture on your current State driver’s license or State identity card, or
? School identification card
? A Federal, State or local government identification card
? A U.S. Military identification card if it shows where you were born
Even if you don’t have any of the documents listed, there are other ways to show Medicaid who
you are and that you are a U.S. citizen. Be sure to tell Medicaid why you need to use another
kind of document when you apply for Medicaid.
Yup Fleetwood @ 3:56, exactly.
Why the US doesn’t ENFORCE immigration laws and actually prosecute those 10,000 who came in for health insurance, but were not documented as Americans is beyond me.
If all the laws are not enforced, then I’d like to know which laws can be broken and which ones can’t.
I got the citizen requirements from:
.
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/downloads/Citizenshipposter.pdf
The 10,000 are not necessarily illegals or even immigrants. Keep in mind that ‘way back when’ we were not required to have our ‘papers’ in order. In fact, my old SS card specifically said “Not for Identification”. It was also destroyed many decades ago. When I first had to do an I-9 I had to get a new SS card and a new copy of my old birth registration. A half-century ago we didn’t bother with such things.
That was then.
This is now.
If you lost your original records:
SS cards are free.
Birth Certificates are < $50 bucks.
United States National Research Council, the working arm of the United States National Academy of Sciences and the United States National Academy of Engineering has this to say:
“Illegal alien migration into the United States costs American taxpayers $346 billion annually reported by the National Research Council. While employers of illegal aliens rake-in billions of dollars, the US citizens subsidize what may be called organized “Slavery in 21st Century America.”
Staggering Cost Of Illegal
Aliens In America
Taxpayers Taken To The Cleaners
By Frosty Wooldridge 4-10-08
“While Congress facilitates outsourcing, insourcing and offshoring of American jobs by the thousands weekly, that same Congress imports 182,000 legal immigrant monthly who need jobs. Another estimated 100,000 illegal aliens arrive each month without jobs. All those immigrants seize jobs from American citizens at slave wages.
What happens to the American taxpayer?
“Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens,” said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Council’s new book: “The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration.” The Social Contract Winter 2007-08. http://www.thesoicalcontract.com
The NRC found that the average immigrant household receives $13,326 in federal welfare and pays $10,664.00 in federal taxes. Thus, American taxpayers shell out $2,682.00 for each immigrant household.
In addition, the report showed that immigrants affect 15 different executive agencies of the U.S. government.
Earned Income Tax Credit-fraud is rampant and IRS does little to verify existence of children. Clean Air and Climate Change-these goals are unattainable as long as US population grows-driven by unending immigration. Emergency medical treatment-US taxpayer money provides $250 million a year to help hospitals defray costs for illegal aliens. Bureau of Land Management-the Interior Department spends $1 million to mitigate environmental damage done by illegals crossing US southern border. Migrant educational grants-intended to help states educate children of illegal workers. More fraud from over-counting. Office of Foreign Labor Certification-immigrant workers depress wages for US citizens resulting in declines in federal revenues at $100 billion annually.
As shown on CBS with Katie Couric this past week, 300,000 pregnant Mexican women cross the border to birth their babies, known as ‘anchor babies’, in American hospitals at an average cost of $6,000.00 per birth with no complications. If the child suffers heart defects, Downs Syndrome, Autism or any other problems, the costs jump to $500,000.00 with long term care into the millions of dollars. All footed by the America taxpayer!
Not mentioned in Couric’s report, that child enjoys free breakfasts and lunches through 13 years of publicly funded education at an average cost of $7,000.00 per year. Additionally, American taxpayers foot the bill for all medical and housing assistance for the child and mother. More hidden costs add up with ESL classes to teach the child English. Connecticut alone suffers 120 languages in their schools while Colorado suffers over 40 foreign languages that cripple their classrooms.
The list of expenses paid for by American taxpayer soars with time and numbers of illegal aliens. Additionally, legal immigrants sponsor their relatives in chain migration and family reunification at US taxpayer expense.
These immigrants take American jobs while they burn American taxpayer funds for immigrant welfare. This all happens while the US national debt approaches $10 trillion. Immigrants flood into this country while jobs cascade out to China where we owe $1 trillion in T-bills as of 2008. Additionally, we suffer a $700 billion annual trade deficit.
Once those illegal aliens hit this country, half of them work off the books and do not pay $401 billion dollars annually according to the 2005 Bear Stearns Report. Additionally, they form the second largest underground economy in the world. Both legal and illegal immigrants send $80 billion back to their home countries in cash transfers on untaxed money.
When does it end? Not any time soon! Who pays? You do! Like the proverbial golden calf, the United States taxpayer bleeds to death daily while our president and Congress fiddle, faddle and scratch their generous rear ends while they facilitate the death of America’s middle class. “
“A half-century ago we didn’t bother with such things.”
You’re right. Now get off my lawn.
Might as well get your Passport if you don’t have it already, IF you ever want to travel outside the US, even just to Canada and Mexico.
Good for 10 years, but it takes several weeks to get it, unless you pay more for expediting.
Minimax,
“Of those, only a Birth Certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship.
That’s it.
———————————————————-
So?”
So the courthouse in Missouri where my mother was born burned down decades ago, along with her original birth certificate. You have no idea how hard it was for my mother to even prove she’d been born, let alone that she was a citizen. This cropped up every time she had to prove her identity.
Haven’t had a passport since I was in the Air Force.
They had those green NATO passports for military personnel, limited to NATO countries. The pilots and aircrew that flew diplomatic or special ops missions often had red passports (don’t know if they issue those anymore.) Then the standard blue cover passport, which was available at any Embassy or Consulate.
#
Jed
Posted June 19, 2008 at 5:17 pm | Permalink
Minimax,
“Of those, only a Birth Certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship.
That’s it.
———————————————————-
So?”
So the courthouse in Missouri where my mother was born burned down decades ago, along with her original birth certificate. You have no idea how hard it was for my mother to even prove she’d been born, let alone that she was a citizen. This cropped up every time she had to prove her identity.
——————–
There are ways Jed. Having done genealogical research since the 1970s, there are many methods to obtain documentation. Having to prove each step of lineage (birth, death and residence)for certification in specific genealogical societies was extremely hard work, but made me aware of the ‘how tos’ and ‘where to go.’
Birth Certificates are < $50 bucks.
In Kansas, they’re $12. Add $9 to rush it. That’s current. I just checked on it yesterday, as I need to get my youngest’s for school enrollment. I never did get an official one for her and always used the hospital one, which is normally okay. I decided it’s high time to do it right. :)
Jed,
My ex’s grandfather was born in Oklahoma when it was still a territory. It took a while, but he did get a passport after being allowed to use a certificate from grade school. There were some moments they thought the trip to Europe wasn’t going to happen.
20,000 Eligible Kansans Lost Insurance? SHAME SHAME SHAME
Just wait until yer mama cant vote.
I was lucky. When I had to go through the I-9 documentation my mother was still alive and could deal with the people in Georgia to track down a Birth Registration. (They never did find an actual birth certificate). With that and knowing my SS# I was able to obtain a new SS card. I now keep my passport up-to-date.
I would be very interested in knowing the ages of the 20,000. The older they are the less likely they would be to have their ‘papers’
Another Republican scheme to “protect” us that then winds up hurting us.
Actually, age should HELP, if the person is over 65.
If over 65, or disabled, that person is ALREADY on Medicare.
People on Medicare are NOT affected by this Medicaid law.
People on Medicare are documented through the Medicare system, already.
“20,000 eligible Kansans”
I assume that “eligible” means they were not “ineligible”. That would then mean they were NOT illeagls since then they would be “ineligible.”
Paul – IF they have already vetted their existence.
However, you do have a valid point; but there is still the 55-65 group who were told by the SS administration NOT to use SS cards for ID.
Why do banks waste all of that money using armed guards and armored cars to haul their money around?
They almost never get robbed.
Wouldn’t it be cheaper to hire teenagers to haul around bags of cash in their used Yugo’s?
The logic is just the same, here!
Illegals don’t apply for Medicaid, under the new rules, because they don’t want to get CAUGHT!
I have had trouble with “child bride” situations.
Husband does not fully retire, and go on “Part B” until after age 75 or so.
Wife is, now, nearing 65 or something.
Wife was born on the kitchen table in Indian Territory somewhere.
Wife was on hubby’s insurance, all of these years.
Even if she has a Social Security number, it is hard to get other documents.
Getting HER on Social Security and Medicare can be a headache, but it can be done.
And, it SHOULD be difficult.
This is taxpayer money, and we want to discourage fraud.
One million dollars to catch one guy. Another example of Republicans working hard to waste your money.
Paul – I would like to see some other sort of ‘paper trail’ be allowed to show eligibility in cases like that. For example, my tax returns dating back several decades. Very old high school stuff. Sort of a ‘grandfathering’ of it.
I agree with the goal – just not sure of the methodology.
Franklin,
Your logic is ’spot on’ above where you say that since armored cars carrying cash almost never are robbed, why do they spend all that money on those vehicles and guards. Bicycle runners should be good enough and much cheaper. Ha!
Yet that is the argument many in our government make over illegal immigration and benefits, and frankly the Democrats make over voter ID as well.
Just stupid.
Actually you would be surprised at how often companies WILL use the old Yugo to transport stuff like that. It is safer because nobody expects it.
Paul – I would think that with your experience you could devise at least some methods for ‘grandfathering’ in people like that you mentioned.
“Yet that is the argument many in our government make over illegal immigration and benefits”
Oh, bullshit – McCain AND Bush both were for amnesty for illegal immigrants and McCain co-wrote the amnesty bill that he is now “against.”
If you want to do something about illegal immigration – and since so many of you are for the death penalty – sentence business owners that hire illegal immigrants to death – one appeal – thirty days – lop off their heads – on live television.
There would be NO illegal immigrants if there were NO jobs.
Off with their heads!!!!
“…20,000 eligible Kansans lost their health insurance because they had difficulty producing the required documentation.”
Thats pretty darned clear… 20,000 ELIGIBLE Kansans LOST (inferring they had it previously) their health insurance…. because of not having the required documents….
Thats the SAD part… they had it, and then some new law comes in, and Poof!! — They LOSE it!!
That law needs to be re-visited…. and fixed!!
“Ahhh, if 20,000 lost their coverage because they weren’t Americans, then what was the SAVINGS from not paying for health care for 20,000 non-Americans?”
Just think, the money saved by not covering them for a short while is probably equal to what we spend in a few hours in Iraq.
“…20,000 eligible Kansans lost their health insurance because they had difficulty producing the required documentation.”
It’s really no big deal and it happens all the time…every person on Medicaid has to complete a review every year to stay eligible for benefits…often the ones who have mental illness, mental retardation, or for a variety of other reasons, fail to get the forms filled out and as a result, lose their health insurance. It only takes a moment to get it back once someone realizes what happened, and it’s always retroactive when it comes to medical reimbursements. I’m sure it was handled the same way in this situation.
It really boils down to racism; it’s as simple as that!
All the arguments about the ‘cost of illegal immigration’ are kind of silly. They would be solved if there was a guest worker program, and they were payed a proper wage and were taxed properly.
The kids that are born here the “anchor babies” know english, try hard and succeed in school. They go on to be successful in life and help our economy. Yet would would deport them to a life of filth in mexico simply because of a choice their parents made. These are the kind of people that help our country, not hurt it! They build it with a hard work ethic and a positive attitude. Most of these kids don’t even have a spanish accent. They are not draining the system they are building it.
So I really try to figure out people’s hatred for them. I hate to think it’s because of racism, but sometimes I think it must be, I can’t think of any other answer. It’s not about them breaking the law or anything like that. Them breaking the law because of a ridiculous system of immigration doesn’t hurt you in any way. You probably break the law everyday when you drive by speeding or not coming to a complete stop, but you don’t hear my saying that someone should take your car away.
It’s a lack of understanding, misplaced hatred. We have always hated the newest immigrant group to our country, whether Irish, polish, or germans. We always blame the newcomer for all our ills. In the end, people will look back at your attitude in the future just like we look back on those who hated the newcomers then- with a sad shake of our head.
They don’t take into account the illegal’s that use the emergency room for their health care. That cost is paid by all of us in the prices at the hospitals and our insurance rates.
jbsaab99,
Xenophobia has been exploited in the US for over 150 years as a way to opress workers. If it’s not one group, it’s another. Irish, Chinese, Germans, Jews, Italians Serbians and now Hispanic people have been made to suffer in order to keep American workers properly subjugated. Don’t worry, they’ll be on to some other group before long. It’s just the American way of saying “Howdy!”
As a former employee of the SRS I can tell you ole Andy is putting a spin on the facts. One thing the SRS is not telling you is the illegal alien that gives birth does not pay the bill. The newborn is considered a citizen and the state picks up the bill under Medicaid or SOBRA.
Everyone should also understand that SRS knows where families are that receive Food Stamps and TAF (TANF), which have children considered citizens. It is a fact that an illegal alien head of household can make more money than a legal citizen and get more benefits than that legal family household of the same size.
Think about it, the SRS knows where illegal aliens – people breaking the law – and do not turn the names or addresses over to the INS.
“It is a fact that an illegal alien head of household can make more money than a legal citizen and get more benefits than that legal family household of the same size.”
If it is a fact, then it should be easy to provide proof of your claim.
So do it…………
Institute draconian penalties on those who hire illegals.
Place a tax of at least 50% on all funds wired from the US to Mexico.
Certainly hard to show how an illegal alien family can obtain more food stamp benefits on this screen because the benefits tables are not available easily represented here. But I can tell you is common knowledge within the SRS. One example I had was a illegal alien head of household was earning $10.50 per hour with two children, which were legal. The food stamp household is two, not three. The legal head of household of three earning $10.00 would be disqualified to recieve food stamps. It is a simple matter of changing the code from DI to PA on the eligibility screen to see the difference. The descrepancy is in the computer doing the calculation in the difference for the rent and household expenses.
While the money is minimal, any food stamp recipients do get free school lunches. That makes a difference to any low income family.
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