U.S. troop deaths from postwar suicide might outnumber combat fatalities, according to Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, the government’s top psychiatric research arm.
It’s a shocking reminder of the ongoing and hidden costs of the Iraq war.
Insel blamed the problem in part on a failure to provide adequate care for returning soldiers.
His remarks came on the heels of a Rand Corp. study last month indicating that of the more than 1.6 million military members who’ve served in Iraq or Afghanistan, about 300,000 suffer from depression or post-traumatic stress disorder — and only about half of those sought treatment. And for those receiving treatment, about half received substandard care.
It’s good that the Defense Department recently ramped up efforts to ensure that soldiers who seek mental health treatment aren’t stigmatized — 6 in 10 military enlistees in a recent survey said they believed that coming forward would hurt their careers.
Another key factor, according to Insel, is that many community mental health centers, especially in rural areas, aren’t prepared or equipped to handle the problem.
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On the run up to the war, the Pentagon trotted out a spokesperson who laid out the intricate plans to address mental health problems for returning warriors.
This looks like another “Mission Accomplished” moment.
Heck of a job, guys!
Our soldiers, sailors and airmen should receive the same health care benefit / insurance, treatment that members of Congress get …… but oh no that might cost too much — better to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure than take care of our own —–
WPE
There can be a myriad of reasons why this tragedy can occur. It is a damn shame for all of us!
I have had family who have served in WW2, Korea, and VietNam. From talking with them I learned that the ‘ambiguous’ wars are more difficult to deal with. “I killed those people for what?” becomes an unanswerable question for many people. Add to that the fact that in WW2 our entire country went on a war footing – rationing etc to support the effort. Today our population at home is exhorted by the president to “go shopping” and live it up.
Used to be, returning vets just sucked it up and went on with their lives. I had an uncle that came back from WW II messed up mentally. He didn’t run around crying about his problems. He just lived very quietly in a small trailer between the orange groves and the swamp. As I recall, he drank a lot.
Now everybody has to have a shrink and a couple of support groups.
I suspect that the people who forged this misbegotten war, and that includes our two senators, must be experiencing some form of mental contortions as well. Sen. Roberts, in particular, must be experiencing a whopping case of cognitive dissonance, trying to rationalize the irrational. He was part of “the big lie.” I suspect he drinks himself to sleep at night as well.
Bush and many Americans will do their best to ignore the dark side of Bush’s misbegotten war. Corruption has also taken its toll, both in terms of the billions of dollars in wealth that have been stolen but also from the soul of America. The NYT had a great editorial today. What corporations are at the heart of it?
“No one will be surprised to hear that one of the suspected prime offenders is KBR, the Texas-based defense contractor, formerly a part of the Halliburton conglomerate allied with Vice President Dick Cheney. According to a report in The Boston Globe, KBR, which has landed billions in Iraq contracts, has used two Cayman shell companies to avoid paying hundreds of millions in payroll, Medicare and unemployment taxes.”
Now that Rupert Murdoch is Foxizing the Wall Stree Journal, I don’t think we’ll be reading about corruption in the WSJ. There goes another casualty of war — the truth.
The Administration extolls the ‘patriotism’ aspect of ’serving your country’, on one hand. On the other the dole out billions of taxpayer dollars to companiee that have no national loyalty, and who can’t wait to be ‘global companies’ with loyalty only to profits.
I’m sure Nano is glad the troops are offing themselves after they come home, and most likely won’t receive any life insurance benefits. Seems to think they should just all go crawl in a hole and drink themselves into oblivion.
Phantom
Posted May 9, 2008 at 9:34 am
I’m sure Nano is glad the troops are offing themselves after they come home, and most likely won’t receive any life insurance benefits. Seems to think they should just all go crawl in a hole and drink themselves into oblivion.
Oh, don’t you wish.
My point is, something has changed over the years. Used to be, serving in the armed forces made you tough. Now, not so much. Where are all the whiners coming from? I could see it maybe if there was a draft, but this is an all volunteer force. If they don’t know what they’re getting into, maybe they should. And maybe we need to look at the training our troops are recieving and figure out why soldiers aren’t tough enough to withstand the rigors of combat.
Nano: Used to be, the NI&&&RS knew their place in society. Used to be, women knew that they were not intelligent enough to vote. Used to be, we used salt tablets to combat dehydration and leeches to heal the sick. Need I go on? Tell you what, why don’t you go over there and fight? When you come back, you can show everyone how you just drink and “suck it up”
War might be easier when the cause is just, but how would anyone in contemporary society know that for sure?
Wonder if there’s any difference between Afghanistan service suicides, and Iraq suicides. But since most have probably been forced to serve in both might not be measurable.
But you are right about one thing Nano. Something has changed. Support our troops stopped being the flavor of the month. Veterans started feeling ashamed of their service. I know I did after the Bill and Hillary fiasco of the 90s. I took early retirment out of disgust. Perhaps you should consider both sides of the argument before you decide this is just the result of decadence.
Listen to Nano–”My uncle didn’t need no shrink. He just sat in his trailer and drank a lot.”
Yeah, what a fufilling life that must have been!
“Nano” apparently refers to the size of your brain.
“Taking out Saddam Hussein isn’t worth a single American life.” Dick Cheney, 1991.
He was right then.
Bring them home now.
A friend who is a Nam vet had a theory about the higher rates of PTSD. When men returned from WWII they came on troop ships; had a week or more to decompress from war zones.
My friend, however, talked about the severe torture shock of spending one day in The ‘Nam, poking into dirt roads with a bayonet for Viet Cong land mines and the next day walking down the street in Wellington. He said the culture shock was surreal. Yesterday the little kids all seemed to know where not to walk (some had probably buried them) and today the same-aged kids are playing cops & robbers.
VET -sounds from your tone toward nano that you have ‘been there done that’!
For those who can’t drink away their mental/emotional problems, I suppose there’s always the ever-popular screwdriver to the forhead.
I agree with Capn: 10^-9 is quite an appropriate moniker.
I recall seeing part of a suppressed documentary that dealt with some of the living, physically uninjured casualties of WWII (you know: the “good” war?). One guy couldn’t stop saying “sssss! sssss! sssss!”–apparently fixated on the sounds of mortars. Quick: Get this man a scotch and soda!
Of course, if you prefer rhetoric to reason, all this namby-pamby talk about “trauma” and “post-traumatic stress disorder” is just touchy-feely politically correct liberal crap. Granted, mental health may the most uncertain field of study in medicine, but that’s no excuse for pretending it’s unworthy of our attention.
Or we can just ignore them. Nothing bad will happen, right?
Many Homeless in U.S. Are Veterans
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104184,00.html
The world has changed in 50+ years. All changes bring repurcussions, both good and bad. It’s that action/reaction thing.
My uncle was on the “front lines” in Korea, although the family never knew until he came home. Only once have I ever heard him talk about it, and only because I overheard a conversation he had with my ex. Did his time in Korea affect him? Very much, although you might not notice if you hadn’t known him before his service.
Having grown up in the 60’s, I know many Vietnam vets, and some who didn’t make it back. Many of them never talk about it, not even when asked. It’s something they don’t want to revisit.
War is hell. Because it is, we should always give careful thought before we step into it, because once the damage is done, it can’t be undone, no matter how many doctors are available or how many prayers are said. This administration gave Iraq thought, but only about what it would do for them and theirs.
And, boy, could I tell some stories about Kellogg, Brown and Root that would knock your socks off.
“Where are all the whiners coming from?”
Nano is referring to military veterans and not liberals?
I doubt the men serving today are any different than the men who went to fight in the BIG ONE (WWII). Better trained, better equipted, and a lot smarter perhaps. But I don’t think the -itching and moaning, or even the disagreement with policy was much different.
I think MonkeyH is on the right track. The world has changed.
Reporters now can get a live feed interview to the listeners. They have email, laptops, cell phones, blackberries and a half dozen other communication devices. Americans listened to radio in WWII, and saw “the war” on the big screen at the movie theatre.
We see instantly whatever the news reporter chooses to feed. We also see reporters and spin from more news sources.
A military member can now get his OWN views out there via any number of platforms.
An attitude change too, perhaps? Think of the black and white movies we see of the WWII military in action. Whom was interviewed? Not the troops. It was the leader. And very scripted.
I’d bet if those men stuffed on troop transports back in WWII like salamanders had access to a phone or the media – we would have heard from them too.
And Nano, I don’t think it’s troops doing most of the complaining now. We have ready statistical and report information instantly. We can better see – there is a problem here. I think it’s a recognition by many that we need to do more for our troops and steady progress to take care of the individual.
And maybe we have learned just a little the lessons on how we treated our veterans before.
The stigma associated with mental illness has not disapated over the years – but the recognition of this medical condition has come a long way. But in WWII – “You’re Nuts!!” said Daffy Duck.
The recognition of the problems facing our returning hero’s is not a sign of their personal weakness.
It’s a sign of our strength.
MonkHawk–
I’ve heard that too from a guy who was there, and came back totally messed up.
Finally became an “addictions counsellor” himself.
He said he they’d take them straight from weeks in the jungle and put them on a PanAm jet with sticks in their hair and the leeches in their socks.
One minute they were gunning for “slopes” and the next minute they were sitting in an air conditioned jet plane sipping a martini.
Talk about culture shock.
Very nicely worded, AmWay.
Of course, if you gung-ho war-types hadn’t been all for it from the beginning and had marched in the streets to stop it like I and 2 million others did, these GIs wouldn’t be coming home shell-shocked.
Put the blame where it belongs–on the people who support
Worst.
President.
Ever.
Well Ben, I drank my fair share of beers trying to make sense of it all. So yes, been there, done that. But Gulf War one was just a mini Artep compared to what these guys are going through. We had it easy. So, havent been there, havent done that.
I think that most vets will figure out what to think. I have and others have. Nothing bridges the gap of age or political views like military service. I just take offense at anyone who thinks a vet commits suicide because he is some type of a wimp. What Nano said sounded like that.
“Very nicely worded, AmWay. Of course, if you gung-ho war-types hadn’t…..”
Yeah I know Capn. It’s tough being a neocon. But darn it, someone just has to suck it up and do it.
Agreed VET. I remember all too well the tribulations of the Nam vets I knew. Far too many of them got royally shafted by the system and discarded like yesterday’s garbage.
I agree with Monkey. It seems the period of debriefing is too short. Also agreed AMWAY. It won’t be the vets who complain. They may get drunk, smoke weed, whatever or hopefully figure out a way to avoid all of that. I would hope for the later, but reality tells me we should prepare for the former.
A good read on the type of men who went to war in WWII is, “Flags of Our Fathers”, written by the son of the navy corpsman who helped raise the second flag over Iwo Jima.
The first part of the book has been called boring (the battle doesn’t begin until much later), but it is a fascinating read on the individual men who raised the flag – and how they got them right off the farm.
They had little education, most had never left their home county, they worked rural lives on the farm. They got their information from the radio – and only those getting good reception! The daily newspaper was their other source for “world news” and events. One room school houses.
Imagine the world they lived in. The shock THEY experienced!
Heck, if the guys of 1941 were as informed as the young men and women today – it might have been a whole different story.
Now with regard to these “fortunate son” neocons. I don’t speak with them.
If someone has served and they disagree with me, Then we can agree to disagree.
I’ll still look for them at Fiddlers Green.
(for the non tankers, or non cavalry types, you can see Fiddlers Green in the 1923 US Cavalry Manual. It also applies to sailors to, we took it from you.)
“CapnAmerica” adds –
“…they’d take them straight from weeks in the jungle and put them on a PanAm jet with sticks in their hair and the leeches in their socks.
One minute they were gunning for “slopes” and the next minute they were sitting in an air conditioned jet plane sipping a martini.”
On the other hand, a Nam vet told me about a buddy of his who got into drugs while in-country. Said the guy was a good soldier but got to where he was snorting heroin or smoking opium every day. He gets back to the states and from Day One back in The World, he never used drugs again. No withdrawal, no cold turkey.
My sister, who’s a registered nurse tells me that when opiates are used in medicine to deal with extreme pain, patients often don’t get addicted; that the guy was, in effect, self-medicating for the pain he experienced in The ‘Nam.
Another comment on the ‘decompression’ time on a troop ship. The men got to mourn their dead buddies with their other surving buddies. They got to get drunk with their comrades-in-arms hwo knew where their heads were at.
The Nam vets got dumped in with strangers (perhaps ‘familiar strangers’) with whom they could not share their stress and troubles.
CapnAmerica
Posted May 9, 2008 at 10:56 am
“Nano” apparently refers to the size of your brain.
Actually Capn, it refers to your supply of courage.
I’m going to make an easy guess here. You’re one of these noisy panty-wastes that never served.
Go sit down with the rest of the non-experienced panty-wastes and shut up.
There is one big BUT…in this equation. All would be happy fairy tales with both the WE board and the war….IF it had been a Democrat endeavor.
“bth” notes –
“Another comment on the ‘decompression’ time on a troop ship. The men got to mourn their dead buddies with their other surving buddies. They got to get drunk with their comrades-in-arms hwo knew where their heads were at.
The Nam vets got dumped in with strangers (perhaps ‘familiar strangers’) with whom they could not share their stress and troubles.”
Yeah, and it changed the conversation at local American Legion clubs. Back when I was a kid, the only way to get an illegal drink was the legion hall.
There were still a lot of coots from WWI who hung around and talked about how “the kids” (WWII vets) had “ruined” the legion.
Then the ‘Nam vets showed up.
For all the quasi-patriotic talk about the wonderfulness of military service, I’ve heard all sorts of stories from every era of vets that explained how the term “SNAFU” (a WWII expression) arose.
There are all sorts of stories about “buddies who…” and you know they’re talking about themselves; “destroying a village to save it,” “wasting ’slopes,’” “slicing fat off a dead fat woman to get wet firewood to ignite…,” “you don’t know what you’re capable of….”
My ex-father-in-law used to talk about how he “…fought in ‘The Big One… Korea.’” He was there after 1952, after the worst of the Korean War, but was a forward artillery observer which, in 1950, was the most dangerous assignment in the military. He never really owned up to just how terrified he was in combat, but he hated the Rocky Mountains because they reminded him of Korea; he hated Chinese food because they reminded him of Korea; when he found out his teenaged daughter was sexually active he said she was “…no better than a Korean whore.”
War is, and always has been, the natural behavior of human beings. At the same time, killing other people is the exact opposite of what human beings are hard-wired to do or want from themselves.
The human being. Go figure.
how to rejoin society has always been problem with combat veterans, many civil war vets became cowboys and old west outlaws, WWII and Korean Vets started Outlaw Motorcycle gangs, 2 of 3 surviving members of the Iwo flag raising had life long substance abuse problems despite all the accolades Ira Hayes still died a drunk in a ditch, large numbers of MOH winners who dont die getting it still fall victim to suicide and substance abuse, Audie Murphy suffered PSTD and spoke out against the lack of treatment to vets.
Thanks Paine. A walk down memory lane. When I was in Schwienfurt Germany, The 3rd (Marne) Division was there. 1/15 grunts were just down the road from us in Conn Barracks. Crazy SOBs.
It is hard to get back into society. Usually, a vet needs more freedom in the society. Hence, the cowboys, the bikers, the dudes. If they come back to a rigarous society with tow the line rules, they have more troubles adapting. Just my take on it.
Postraumatic Stress is a weird thing. I told the story about my nephew last night. He had no symptoms until he had a surgery that went wrong and some pain to go with it. Evidently the pain lowered his mental defense system and he had multiple flash backs of all the IED incidents he had been in (3 or 4, don’t think he’s clear on that either.)
Been around some Combat Vets that were steely-eyed, but you couldn’t tell they were stressed or that anything was wrong with them, they were just very quiet 99 percent of the time.
The most common type Post Traumatic Stress I’ve seen with Vets are those involved with some sort of guilt. Their buddies died or they feel they let some one down because of the injuries they received or just been isolated in a combat zone with nothing but combat-related noises, sounds and sights.
The last case is where I’ve seen the most problems pop up. The guilt they carry or the stress of being exposed to sights, sounds and smell just suddenly pop up without warning.
Evidently, this is what happened to my nephew. He said, it was like he was outside of himself when it happened, didn’t know really who he was and he was trying to get back to who he had been, if that makes any sense.
A perplexing problem. But I think the procedures to identify those with it are better now. The old brown shoes I talked to (WWII and Korea War) said that they would just be put back into the mix and if you complained too much, the military thought you were faking or just trying to get out of duty.
“He said, it was like he was outside of himself when it happened, didn’t know really who he was and he was trying to get back to who he had been, if that makes any sense.”
Sounds like some of what I heard back in the 70s. It seems to make sense in a nonsensical way …
Something else I recall – unintended violence when a guy would simply ‘lose it.’ Fortunately we we all together as a group and could (a) restrain him with minimal cost and (b) keep him from getting busted. A guy should not get brought up on battery charges just because he threw a few punches in such a situation.
So the Pentagon’s going to quit cremating troops with the pets?
Nano-Brain–
Sorry I was born to young to fight in the unnecessary war that was ‘Nam and in this unnecessary war that is Iraqmire.
If there was a war to defend the United States from attack, I’d be there . . .
Nano-Brain–
Sorry I was born too young to fight in the unnecessary war that was ‘Nam and in this unnecessary war that is Iraqmire.
If there was a war to defend the United States from attack, I’d be there . . .
Capn, it wasn’t cunning the first try. What made you think it would be any different with a second post? Still, my point is made. You didn’t serve. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“If there was a war to defend the United States from attack, I’d be there . . .”
Yeah…sure you would….
Elitist Foof.
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