WE Blog

Just out of curiosity. (Since monday morning quarterbacking seems to be a favorite on this blog)

WHAT do you think president Al Gore would have done with the infamous memo about Al Quida vows to strike in US?

What would YOU have wanted him to do?

And PLEASE, we’ve all seen the bush bashing for 7 years now, so skip the well bush didn’t do anything, he wouldn’t have attacked another country…blah blah blah.

Specifics please.

GLOBAL COOLING UPDATE

If Solar Cycle 24 becomes a household term, your lifestyle could be taking a dramatic turn for the worse. That of your children and their children could fare worse still, say some scientists, because Solar Cycle 24 could mark a time of profound long-term change in the climate. As put by geophysicist Philip Chapman, a former NASA astronaut-scientist and former president of the National Space Society, “It is time to put aside the global warming dogma, at least to begin contingency planning about what to do if we are moving into another little ice age.”
The sun, of late, is remarkably free of eruptions: It has lost its spots. By this point in the solar cycle, sunspots would ordinarily have been present in goodly numbers. Today’s spotlessness — what alarms Dr. Chapman and others — may be an anomaly of some kind, and the sun may soon revert to form. But if it doesn’t – and with each passing day, the speculation in the scientific community grows that it will not – we could be entering a new epoch that few would welcome.

In 1128, an English monk, John of Worcester, was the first person known to have drawn sunspots, and after the telescope’s arrival in the early 1600s, observations and drawings became commonplace, including by such luminaries as Galileo Galilei. Then, to the astonishment of astronomers, they saw the sunspots diminish and die out altogether.
This was the case during the Little Ice Age, a period starting in the 15th or 16th century and lasting centuries, says NASA’s Goddard Space Centre, which links the absence of sunspots to the cold that then descended on Earth.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/05/30/the-deniers-our-spotless-sun.aspx

What is the sun doing today? Here is where to look.

http://www.spaceweather.com/

Let’s hope we are not entering a period of cooling. This would be much worse than the puny one degree warming we have seen this century.

Last line should read “this PAST century”.

Q-Line Begins New Season

Date: May 30, 2008
Contact: Ann Keefer, Wichita Downtown Development
: (316) 264-6005

Video coming soon!

The Q-Line Trolley rolls into action Friday, May 30th. It will follow a new route in downtown Wichita and operate under a new schedule according to Wichita Transit and Wichita Downtown Development Corporation.

The new route can be found at http://www.theqline.com. The new hours of operation are from 6 p.m. to midnight Thursdays and Fridays and from noon to midnight on Saturdays. The trolley service will be offered through Nov 1. Wichita Transit officials expect to see an increase in ridership this year.

“Due to the rising fuel prices, we expect more people to take advantage of the Q-Line services,” Mike Vinson, Wichita Interim Transit Director, said. “You can ride the Q for a quarter to visit any of your favorite downtown restaurants, bars and attractions.”

Downtown businesses are also partnering in the effort to increase public awareness about Q-Line services. Many restaurants, hotels, bars and other businesses will offer brochures, posters and coasters displaying Q-Line information.

The Q-Line trolley is fun and easy to use. Simply wave at the driver and the trolley will pull over to pick you up. Look for the Q markings painted on the sidewalks to find the regular trolley stops. The Q stops at intersections along the route approximately every 20 minutes. Stops include downtown hotels, Century II, Lawrence-Dumont stadium, the Keeper of the Plains and Old Town. The Q-Line will also make stops along the Final Friday art gallery crawl on the last Friday of every month.

The trolley service is funded through a partnership with Wichita Downtown Development Corporation and a Congestion Mitigation Air Quality grant from the Federal Transit Administration.

DES MOINES — On a recent evening here, Greg Tew, 28, considered the question: What is it like to work in a state that is creating more jobs than workers? He was sitting in the lobby of a new hotel in downtown Des Moines, part of an extensive redevelopment investment to attract workers to Iowa.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/31/us/31iowa.html?hp

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Kansas had the same kind of problems as Iowa when it comes to jobs and growth? Too bad that Kansas hasn’t evolved in the past 60 years.

“Nano
Posted May 31, 2008 at 9:18 am | Permalink
DES MOINES — On a recent evening here, Greg Tew, 28, considered the question: What is it like to work in a state that is creating more jobs than workers? He was sitting in the lobby of a new hotel in downtown Des Moines, part of an extensive redevelopment investment to attract workers to Iowa.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/31/us/31iowa.html?hp

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Kansas had the same kind of problems as Iowa when it comes to jobs and growth? Too bad that Kansas hasn’t evolved in the past 60 years.”

The area of Wichita is certainly prospering and has more jobs than people as their aren’t enough and won’t be enough skilled aircraft workers to fill the requisitions.

So, I beg to differ.

DNC delegate seating fight CNN.

“BlueJay
Posted May 31, 2008 at 10:49 am | Permalink
What would you know about working in aircraft James?

“The area of Wichita is certainly prospering and has more jobs than people as their aren’t enough and won’t be enough skilled aircraft workers to fill the requisitions.”

Nope. Most of those jobs are in the process of being outsourced either to small non union (low paying, no benefits) shops or sent out of the country entirely.”

It’s obvious that you haven’t been paying much attention. The aircraft industry is booming.

And, by the way, I am not James.

WHY are we sending our money to these countries.
Are our ‘leaders(sarcasm)’ mad.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/unvote.asp

Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:

Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time
Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time
Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time
United Arab Emirates votes against the U. S. 70% of the time.
Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.
Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.
Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time.
Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time
Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.
Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.
Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.
India votes against the United States 81% of the time.
Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.
Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.U S

Foreign Aid to those that hate us!

Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against the United States
And receives $192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the United States
Receives $6,721,000 annually in US Foreign Aid

India votes 81% against the United States
Receives $143,699,000 annually.

Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who have to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes (and for gasoline).

Read more:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/unvote.asp
How they vote in the United Nations

“WHY are we sending our money to these countries.”

Why are we sending our money to ANY country? Other than disaster relief or for direct humanitarian aid, we should not be sending any money out of country.

We should also begin closing the majority of our 700 plus foreign military bases.

“WHAT do you think president Al Gore would have done with the infamous memo about Al Quida vows to strike in US?”
Now the second question: Gore was familiar with those who constructed the memo and Having been second banana in the Clinton administration. He would have knew that there was an active effort in the administration focused on Al-Qaeda. Knowing all that, he would have said he wanted more information and demanded that steps be taken to counter the strike. Demand a immediate listing of all known associates of the group be watched and/or rounded up.

Since the memo mentioned commercial aviation but not a specific action, he would have said that a more consorted effort be made to focus on that aspect. By the FAA, FBI and the CIA both about planting a bomb and/or Hijacking. That would have been the logical focus since as of yet there had been only spotting information about flight training. So the focus would be on non-physical control of the aircraft such as a hijacking or planting a bomb. .

And to change the subject to a lighter note………

If any of you are bored, I have a little project that you can help with. Yesterday, I began the process of replacing the steering column in my son’s car. As an auto mechanic, my son is an excellent computer nerd.

After picking up the replacement column at a local salvage yard, I began work by removing the rear doors, front bumper and the windshield. Next, I sawed a hole in the roof so that my feet could stick out while I stood on my head to get under the dash.

The column is held in place with basically four stout bolts, but you have to remove the entire dash which is held in place with 3,256 screws, 1,249 bolts and two zillion plastic pegs, all of which break upon contact.

Under the dash are various wiring harnesses which were designed by a spaghetti salesman and multiple brackets, all of which have had their edges honed to razor sharp quality.

Well, the old column is out, the trunk and back seat are filled with dash panels and brackets and I have bags of bolts, nuts and screws.

So, if anyone wants to help put this mess back together, please feel free to give me a call. I’ll be waiting by the phone.

Oh, and a word of advise for y’all – the column had to be replaced because an internal bearing went the way of the dodo bird. It is easier to replace the entire column than to replace the bearing.

The bearing failed because the tilt wheel was constantly released by merely flipping the lever, allowing it to crash into the raised position.

(Info passed on by a parts man.)

So, when you pull into your driveway, don’t just flip the tilt up or you might find yourself standing on your head cussing out GM engineers.

Clark after reviewing all the information you provided and referencing all the manuals I have from pass efforts at fixing my own vehicle. It is my learned opinion that the best advise I can possibility offer is this:
BUY A FORD! :>

Clark I have a pick-up and a small SUV setting rusting in my driveway from my attempt at fixing them! You do not want my help, it already sounds like you had my help! LOL

WS,

Man I don’t envy you in your task.

Cars can be a pain to work on.

But what you are doing for your son is great!

I recently had a friend (yes I have a few) who had to buy a new part on a steering column to replace the igniton switch on a Jeep.

The problem was that the engine wouldn’t shut off and he had to disconnect the battery to shut it off.

The switch wasn’t available by itself, but only in the steering column subassembly.

Now that’s customer spare parts support!

Poor outlander thinks Philip Chapman is a credible source! Philip Chapman is no climatologist! In fact he is nothing more than an old over the hill astronaut.

For several years he has labored under the delusion that we are on the brink of another ice age. His most ambitious paper was debunked by a real climatologist but like most deniers he labors on, probably being paid by big oil.

Poor dumb outlander will grasp on to any nut to further his anti AGW agenda.

WHY are we sending our money to these countries.

So we can “own” them?

And IF that’s true, considering our debt to China, will that, in the long run, mean that China will own them?

“WHAT do you think president Al Gore would have done with the infamous memo about Al Quida vows to strike in US?”

I have a question in regards to that question Sort of.

Why, after the attacks on September 11, 2001, did the Bush White House cut by nearly two-thirds an emergency request for counterterrorism funds by the FBI?

In answer to your question, Gene, I believe Gore would have paid attention. But with a Republican Congress surrounding him, I’m not sure what he would have been allowed to do.

*Would Gore have been on vacation at his ranch at that time? Can Gore read anything beyond MY PET GOAT level?*

(*=tongue-in-cheek)

The problem somewhat was that there was no communication between the FBI and CIA and others. Security isn’t going to work if agencies who are to protect us are hoarding their information because they don’t want to share, or because there isn’t a system set up so they CAN share or MUST share.

We live in a scary world. Not that those who lived before us didn’t. But it would help if information was set up to share and also to be vetted when discovered.

I blame none of the non-communication on the Bush Administration. There are too many other things to hold them accountable for, such as ignoring intelligence because it wasn’t specific enough. THAT was where the Bush Admin. failed, and I don’t think Gore would have done that.

But then Gore would have been accused of being anal by the Republicans, I’m sure. When it comes to the other party, Reps like to shoot first and ask questions later. Unfortunately, they didn’t bother to do that about the memo. They chose to ignore it.

BlueJay will not like this, but this government was set up to work together, with oversights on each branch to balance the power. I do think the Founding Fathers foresaw there would be “party” struggles, but those struggles are now to the level of “war”, with neither party acting in the best interest of the citizens of this country, only a battle to “win” what they think is right.

It takes compromise. Each of the two parties has its own strengths. Working together for the benefit of ALL, would make this country and type of government what it was set up to be. Sadly, I don’t see that happening for a long, long time.

(I admit to my own partisanship, by the way, so you won’t have to point that out to me. :) )

BlueJay,

One more thing, and then I have to go. (Stop cheering, everyone.)

If you have a way to get in touch with your neighbors, you could always let them know about the tire. Let them make the decision. If they want you to get it fixed, then they should not only pay or reimburse you, but should give you a little extra for letting them know. That doesn’t mean you should expect or ask for a “finders fee”.

It all depends on your relationship with your neighors and just how well you know them. And how “good” you want to be. ;)

WordPress ate the http from links

between 0.17 W/m2 (Wang 2005) http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005ApJ…625..522W

to 0.23 W/m2 (Krivova 2007)
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A…467..335K

Hank Price posted May 31, 2008 at 1:23 pm

“Poor outlander thinks Philip Chapman is a credible source! Philip Chapman is no climatologist! In fact he is nothing more than an old over the hill astronaut.

For several years he has labored under the delusion that we are on the brink of another ice age. His most ambitious paper was debunked by a real climatologist but like most deniers he labors on, probably being paid by big oil.

Poor dumb outlander will grasp on to any nut to further his anti AGW agenda.”
——–

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_K._Chapman
“On April 23, 2008, Dr Chapman published an article in the The Australian newspaper, claiming that a new ice age was imminent and that mankind should try to warm the climate by, for instance, “gathering all the bulldozers in the world and using them to dirty the snow in Canada and Siberia” to reduce albedo and absorb more warmth from the sun.[2]
His views were debunked by a climate scientist in the same newspaper a few days later.[3]”

‘Warming trend has not been reversed’
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23612876-11949,00.html

Author,

Prof. David Karoly
http://www.earthsci.unimelb.edu.au/php/view_profile.php?id=dkaroly

BlueJay,

Mighty decent of you to look after your neighbor.

If it were me, I wouldn’t do anything, unless they approved it first. It kinda depends on your relationship with them.

But sounds like your looking good after them.

And you get candy! Whoeee!

#
American
Posted May 31, 2008 at 10:15 am

The area of Wichita is certainly prospering and has more jobs than people as their aren’t enough and won’t be enough skilled aircraft workers to fill the requisitions.

So, I beg to differ.

American, has anybody told the blog “hobo” about this? (LOL!)

Seriously, I’ve noticed there seem to be a lot of aircraft positions. Either they’re very specialized, or they don’t fit my specialty field. Doesn’t seem to be a lot of job security around here in aircraft.

The DNC rules committee on a vote of 15 12 has voted NOT to seat 100% of the Florida delegates.

On a second vote they voted 27 to 0 to seat the delegates with half a vote.

The DNC denying votes AND dissing a key state.

Unbelievable.

On to Denver.

And the Obama wave washes over the DNC rules committee. They are not going to count Michigan correctly either.

Howard Ickies reports that Senator Clinton reserves her right to challenge as half the crowd shouts…

DENVER! DENVER! DENVER!

BlueJay posted May 31, 2008 at 6:07 pm

“Howard Ickies reports that Senator Clinton reserves her right to challenge as half the crowd shouts…

DENVER! DENVER! DENVER!”
——–

Actually, it will be the Republic half of the country cheering.

Because the delay and turmoil will make it easier for McCain to win.

BlueJay,

Happy face= :) colon followed by end parenthesis

: ) with no space inbetween. Simple as can be. Sad face is : (

Look at it sideways. It’s a pair of eyes and a smile. Or a frown, depending on which way the parenthesis faces.

I have a notebook around here with a cover that has all the cute little “smilies” on it, but I’ve never tried them. Maybe I should do that. ;) (semi-colon followed by parenthesis)

“But her nomination would cause the Obama supporters to sit out.”

Jeez, I remember a Clinton supporter saying that he would vote for the Green Party candidate if Obama was the Dem’s nominee.

Now who was that?????????????????

The rules committee, I watched that all! You ask me why I am still a Republican, well its the simplicity of our committees decisions. See we put on our robes, slit the goat’s throat, disembowel it and throw the entrails into the air. When they land if it looks more like a “Y” than the answer is yes. If it looks more like a “N” the answer is no. Its the simplicity of it all! That’s not true but I know some imagine that is what we do at a Republican committee meeting anyway.

Well at least all the Democratic cats are in a row even if its two rows going in totally different directions.
But such as it goes herding cats….

BlueJay,

Do you have a link to the statement that Obama was NOT SUPPOSED to take…?

Even my friend in IL who likes Obama has passed on erroneous information about him, so I like to check things out.

Clark the question was, what day of the week was it?

It’s the first I’ve heard of it during the rules meeting today Rox. I haven’t checked it out.

That’s okay, BlueJay. When I get a few, and if I remember to do it, I’ll see what I can find on it. I’m curious, to say the least.

Here’s a Fox News link from Nov. of last year regarding the Michigan vote.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313306,00.html

Edwards, Obama, Biden, and Richardson all pulled their names from the ballot.

Read the article closely, and I’ll see if I can find any reference to them being told NOT to remove their names.

I do not want a president that cannot be trusted to honor her own written pledge. We already have a president that cannot be trusted.

Predestined
Posted May 31, 2008 at 6:55 pm | Permalink
writerdog,

Do you also think the Electoral College is useful in this day and age?

What about 1 man, one vote?
———————-
It stills has its uses and is very useful.

That is, unless you want the most populated states like California, New York and Texas to be the only states to elect the President.

“That is, unless you want the most populated states like California, New York and Texas to be the only states to elect the President.”

I guess that Republicans are for democracy except when they are against it.

I want a President who is either in a crazy church or isn’t.

WSClark
Posted May 31, 2008 at 7:11 pm | Permalink
“That is, unless you want the most populated states like California, New York and Texas to be the only states to elect the President.”

I guess that Republicans are for democracy except when they are against it.
————————-
Winning electoral votes means winning the population vote each state. There is no loss of democracy in the process.

However, if there was no electoral college, the more populated states could push less populated states out of the voting.

That, in my opinion would be wrong.

20 YEARS in a church.

Until he isn’t

The waffle iron cooks on both sides WS.

WSClark posted May 31, 2008 at 6:45 pm

“Are you suggesting that Obama drop out, even though he is within 66 delegates of the nomination and Clinton trails by more than 200?”
———–

If this site is accurate,
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

Obama needs only 42 more to secure the nomination.

Clinton trails Obama by 201. Needs 243 to secure.

Obama has both more pledged and super delegates.

And Obama will probably gain more super delegates than Clinton after next Tuesday.

BlueJay posted May 31, 2008 at 7:19 pm

“20 YEARS in a church.

Until he isn’t”

BlueJay, tell us how long the new pastor, Rev. Moss was pastor of that church?

BlueJay,

There’s no telling where the comment came from. Could’ve been Fox. ;) I’ve found nothing, so apparently the MSM doesn’t feel it’s worthwhile enough to jump on…at the moment.

Regarding the church thing… This is only one example of why I have a problem with organized religion. (That’s a personal thing, guys, and I believe you have the right to worship as you please.)

I know a lot of people who have belonged to a church for many, many years. There are a lot of reasons why they’ve chosen to be a member of that church and not gone elsewhere. I’ve done my share of listening to pastors give their interpretation of the Bible, interspersed with their own opinions on other matters. (Recovering Catholic, remember? :) ) Rev. Wright may or may not have been Obama’s main reason for being a member of that church. I guess I’d have to ask him. (big grin here) Yes, Obama said Wright was his mentor, but that may have been a religious mentor. Their views of slavery and racism may not have been exactly the same. Obama may not have agreed with all, some, or any. That’s something we may never know.

I try to give the benefit of the doubt to all, at least once. That goes for Hillary, McCain, etc., although I can’t say I remember it for Dubya. :)

had=have

I’m off to Family Night. Y’all have a rousing good time tonight!

And be civil, if you can’t be nice. ;)

And I could care less if Hillary could or would win in a Reagan-like landslide.

This go around, I want a president that I can trust.

“there is no official “popular vote” count for some (or maybe all?) states that caucus.”

Another point that Hillary supporters CONveniently ignore.

Ya know WS.

Obama is being just as opportunistic re Michigan and Florida.

Just in a different way. He fought against a re vote in either state. He for a long time fought any seating of the delegates at all.

At least Senator Clinton makes political sense with her opportunism. Distancing Florida and Michigan is a very bad idea. There is respecting the rules and then there is just being silly about it.

You may consider her words “worthless” as a result. I happen to see them as making her yet AGAIN the better candidate because she is more poltically savvy.

And popular vote?

Well that is what we always argued after 2000 right?

I guess we will see how some stick to their words about that.

It is going to the convention. IF Clinton can claim the popular vote?

Here is my best scenario for the both of them. And like I say, they ARE tied to each other whether they like it or not if they want to avoid giving McCain the Presdiency.

If she has the popular vote, he graciously offers to be VP.

Before anybody blows up, just listen er…read.

Clinton Obama would CRUSH McCain.

Obama is young. A move like that would get him tremendous political capital. He would easily be the nominee in 2016 and he would only be mid 50ish.

They have to work something out.

No WS with that attitude McCain wins.

Kansas and Idaho count and Michigan and Florida should not?

How bad do you want to lose so you can be comfortable in your unrealistic frame?

Hillary supporters are worried that the DNC will alienate Michigan and Florida supporters, yet they have no concern that Clinton has alienated more than half the Democratic Party with her dismissive “that was his choice” regarding Obama not being on the ballot in Michigan.

She wants ALL of the delegates from Michigan, despite the fact that she AGREED that they would not count.

Is that “politically savvy?”

What isn’t politically savvy about her approach is her dismissive attitude towards Obama.

And some would want him to accept the VP slot, despite his lead in delegates?

Yeah, right.

Senator Clinton has HARDLY been dismissive of Obama.

She hasn’t gone after him as hard as she could have either.

Remember when Obama dissed her on the Senate floor? I do. Lots of people do.

And Senator Clinton HAS said that no Democrat should vote for John McCain.

I don’t know that Obama has done that.

Senator Clinton has spoken openly of having Obama as VP.

It is said Obama might not choose Clinton as VP….because his WIFE doesn’t like it.

“I didn’t know about that one til today.”

But Biden, Edwards, Richardson and Obama did.

They honored their word.

“Remember when Obama dissed her on the Senate floor?”

Link?

Looks to me as the Democratic Committee just ticked off half of their voting base.

I wonder if the Democrats in Michigan and Florida will revolt to not vote or vote for McCain? :)

That wasn’t too hard to find…

http://wdupree.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/obama-turns-back-on-clinton-at-state-of-the-union/

Hey all,

I am watching the final moments of “The Rookie”, starring Dennis Quaid about the real life story of Jim Morris, well past his prime, making it to the MLB as a 98 mph fastball reliever for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. It’s great movie.

I thought I’d have to stay home this year, but if the Green Party candidate is on the ballot, I’m voting for CYNTHIA!!!

“Obama ticked off half his base.”

And Hillary supporters are bound and determined to make sure he loses.

And they are doing a good job.

Done and done on the links and proving you wrong WS.

“Hillary supporters are bound and determined to make sure he loses.”

Obama you mean.

Um….prove it?

Isn’t this a bit like, “if you’re not with me, then you’re my enemy.”?

What happened to hope and change?

Has “yes we can!” changed to “Dammit you won’t let me!”?

Dems, dems, dems, can’t we all get along?

Where is your party unity?

Let’s play nice now or no cookies and milk.

In fighting is self destructive,not just for the party, but also for the Country, after a certain point. Hope it doesn’t go on that long.

You know, J R, it is people just like you that make me want to vote for ANYONE other than Hillary Clinton in November.

Dissing Clinton on the Senate Floor?

I was looking for a speech, a kick to the crotch, a slap to the face.

He was OBVIOUSLY looking to talk to Claire.

Damn, you Hillary supporters are a sensitive bunch.

“Hillary supporters have said – right here – that they do NOT need Obama supporters to win the General.”

Explain that one, J R, since you were the one that said that Hillary does not need Obama supporters to win the general.

WS Clark, BlueJay, farmer girl, Phantom, Reg,

What are you all doing to make this a better country?

And cosmos_originally.

““Hillary supporters have said – right here – that they do NOT need Obama supporters to win the General.”

Uh…That’s your quote not mine WS.

YOU prove it. Let’s race.

I’ll go find something in your own writing. You go get something of mine.

I left the democrats long before this primary. I did vote for Kerry, but, like I said, in Kansas, WTF does it matter?

And… I’m too lazy to do a bone dig on myself tonight, but I said early on, that if obama lost, he and the DNC and DLC would blame it on Hillary.

So much for personal responsibility.

Obama has done NOTHING to reach out to Hillary supporters. And he’s given lots of pretty words to the gay community. But… his position on gay marriage is NO DIFFERENT than mcsame’s.

Given the track records of democratic presidential nominees over the last 60 years, I hardly think Hillary can be blamed for the next in a long line of failures.

The lawn sprinklers came on during the Shocker game at OSU!

How cool!!!!! (intended pun)

So the Green party is for Gay Rights?

“But… his position on gay marriage is NO DIFFERENT than mcsame’s.”

And Hillary’s position is?

DOMA.

If Hillary wants to take “credit” for the Clinton presidential years, then she also needs to take the “blame” as well.

“Obama has done NOTHING to reach out to Hillary supporters.”

And what has Hillary done to reach out to Obama supporters?

“That was his choice.”

Thanks, Hillary.

“Maybe you dont mind that Clark, but I do.”

I see Obama as a more definitive supporter of gay rights than Hillary.

Has Hillary advocated the repeal of DOMA?

Obama has.

“Just think, Ms. Grrl, with all due respect, if Clinton had vetoed DOMA, you and your partner could go to California or Massachusetts and your marriage would be legal in Kansas.”

Not true Clark. Hillary has opposed DOMA from the beginning. And.. it was a compromise to derail a FEDERAL constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Notice, at least THAT hasnt happened.

And besides, Hillary isnt going to be the nominee. Why do any of us care what her position is on gay marriage?

And no matter Hillary’s position on the issue, it doesnt change obama’s.

And he does not support gay marriage. He says that all the time.

So.. no wonder I want to vote for McKinney? Check out HER position on gay marriage.

farmer girrrrrriilllllllllllllaa,

So just what is McKinney’s position on Gay Rights?

“Not true Clark. Hillary has opposed DOMA from the beginning.”

So why didn’t she use her “influence” with Bill to at least get him to veto the measure?

And since she wants to take credit for the “Clinton Years” doesn’t she also deserve the blame?

Does Hillary support gay marriage? I don’t think so – she certainly has not stated in public that she does.

As for Obama – he supports “civil unions” – a semantic difference from “marriage.”

“Obama has no real Kansas roots, only contrived!”

So the fact that his mother was born here is “contrived?”

Horseshit.

The California decision also struck down the “separate but equal” civil unions. It is waaaaaay more than a semantic difference.

So now.. IF that decision stands, both obama and mcsame’s identical positions on “civil unions” will be contrary to their ruling.

Attacking Hillary is not a defense of obama.

“Clark, WHY are you still running your candidate against Hillary?”

Because she won’t recognize reality and give it up.

Easy.

In my view, her position is that if she can’t be president, then no Democrat will either.

And she is doing a good job of it.

“So now.. IF that decision stands”

And that is Obama’s fault how?

American
Posted May 31, 2008 at 10:26 pm | Permalink
WS Clark, BlueJay, farmer girl, Phantom, Reg,

What are you all doing to make this a better country?
——————-
I try to use rest stops that have restrooms now.

People get touchy when you hang it out along the side of the road.

So in holding with Lady Bird Johnson’s wildflower program, I’m trying real hard to keep those flowers alive by not adding too many extra chemicals to the soil. :D

See that’s the deal kfg.

They back a loser. But WHEN he loses they get to blame everyone but themselves.

It will be my fault, your fault, Senator Clinton’s fault. It will be racist America’s fault too.

They get to win in losing.

Jesus WEPT Clark!

““So now.. IF that decision stands”

And that is Obama’s fault how?”

WHERE TF did I say that???????

That’s what I’m talking about. Just because you and some other obama supporters are COMPLETELY blind to any of his weaknesses, and you bristle up at ANY perceived slight, doesnt mean he’s gonna win in November.

I’m kinda laughing because with every post, you are proving what I am saying. All he’s got is “I’m not Hillary”

I agree JR. But blaming Hillary in advance isnt going to win in november either.

I’m not directing this at Clark as much as others here, but is seems a lot of obama supporters just hate Hillary.

And that only matters in the primary.

Which, if you listen to obama supporters, is over.

I guess beating a dead horse is just easier than campaigning on your own merits. And you are right JR. They are polishing up their excuses right now.

Just like democrats have done for the last thirty two years. Except when Bill Clinton won.

Has Obama done the Fox News interview with OReilly yet?

I thought Hillary gave some pretty good answers when she was interviewed.

Is/Was Obama too chicken to do the interview before he secured the nomination? :)

Lady Bird Johnson should be up on Mt. Rushmore. There are few things more beautiful than Texas in Bluebonnet season. A friend of mine is the director of the National Wildflower Center in Austin, and several of my pals volunteer there. It’s a wonderful place.

Just like the rest of Austin.

“Keep Austin Weird”!

A vote for HillBilly is the same as a vote for Obamatimeforchangeian.

No diff. They all come form the same ideology.

“And cosmos again suggests that I am stupid and did not hear Obama say what he said.”

No… I think that are unable to understand that it is a generic phrase.

And/or you prefer to believe Clinton’s false attack on Obama, after she realized that she did not have an easy primary win.

‘Is There Life After Disaster?’
Monday, Nov. 17, 1980
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,950488-4,00.html
Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York wrote tellingly last summer: “Of a sudden, the G.O.P. has become a PARTY OF IDEAS.”

American = Max Grobnik = Fleetwood = BDP

heh, of course. ALL attacks on obama are false if you are a true believer.

Obama did not win enough elected delegates to get the nomination that way. He doesnt even have a majority of elected delegates. He currently has a plurality. ONLY the superdelegates can give him the nomination. Just like hillary.

And the SUPERDELEGATES get their powers from… wait for it… THE RULES of the democratic party. For the last nearly thirty years, the superdelegates have had that power. Not a rule that was invented this year.

So… obama winning the nomination from superdelegates = good.

Hillary winning the nomination from superdelegates = stealing the nomination.

Yep. That logic oughta serve obama well in november….

I love how obama supporters love them some rules.

until they dont.

ksfarmgrrl posted May 31, 2008 at 11:07 pm

“I’m kinda laughing because with every post, you are proving what I am saying. All he’s got is “I’m not Hillary” ”

No… he’s got more delegates, and the nomination is based on delegates.

WS = WS = WS – One of a kind liberal Obamatime forchangian.

Ws – how come your Obama link is not joined to your name anymore?

Come on Cos, yer better than that. Do I have to spell it out? He has a plurality of elected delegates BECAUSE he ran on “I’m not Hillary”. Ok, so that worked in the democratic primaries.

Someone wins EVERY democratic primary.

But the presidency? Heh. Well, for thirty two years, not so much, except when a Clinton is on the ballot. Were it no for that Clinton “dynasty”…

The last democratic president would be Jimmy Carter, and the last democratic president to be elected to TWO terms would be FDR.

DAMN Bill Clinton for spoiling that longstanding record of loses by the democratic primary winners…

That would be Jimmeh “I’ll kick Ted Kennedy’s ass in the primaries” Carter, KFG. :)

Maybe WS and cosmos can sit down at a table and work with “American”

I’d rather hit him with a chair.

cosmos says.

“No… he’s got more delegates, and the nomination is based on delegates”

No it isn’t. The nomination is based on the candidate that is best seen as a winner. That is what the convention and the super delegates are for.

Afraid of a floor fight? Why?

I’d say any independent or republican that is swayed against obama by ANYTHING the Clintons said or did was probably not likely to vote for obama anyway.

This idea that somehow Hillary brought up “unspeakable” things about obama and that will cost him the presidency is absurd. In fact, as obama folks frequently say, she has such high negatives among so many groups…

It makes me wonder why every Hillary “attack” of truth doesnt drive MORE voters TO obama? I mean, since she’s such a bad woman and all.

She must be damn powerful if just by criticizing him she can cost him the election.

Do you think she has said/done ANYTHING that the repukes wouldnt have done to him sooner or later?

Oh yeah, I forgot, he’s gonna “reach across the aisle” and “change” politics and bring in a new era of bipartisan “hope”.

heh. heheh. HEHEHEH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!

Ok, I’m sitting here with the popcorn waiting to see it.

ksfarmgrrl posted May 31, 2008 at 11:21 pm

“ALL attacks on obama are false if you are a true believer.”
——–

Okay, prove Clinton’s claim that Obama “really liked the ideas of the Republicans”.

If you can’t, then you’re just a “true believer” of Clinton, and ignoring the facts.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/clinton-obama_slugfest.html

Oh, and I know this may come as a shock, but…

I think most of the country knew he was biracial African American and Caucasian BEFORE Hillary or Bill brought up the obvious.

And I think there has been a lingering question since reconstruction if america would EVER elect an African American as president. Even if he/she were also half white.

THat conversation predates the Clintons’ births.

But please, feel free to say the Clintons cost obama the election by “brining up” the obvious.

I KNOW the repukes would never do such a thing after the primary.

Barack is half white? Amazing!

I’M a crybaby?

WS? Please.

You were walking on your lip because Obama’s own pastor sold him out.

“Contrary to your opinion, the world does not have to kiss Hillary’s ass.”

No but apparently I and KFG and everyone else has to kiss Obama’s ass? And if we don’t we are kicking his ass?

He needs his ass kicked. So do his supporters. This has all come too easy for him and them.

Boy, speak about wanting to bring attention to yourself ksfarmergiiirriiiiiiillllllllla.

Gee I think you are trying pretty hard to bring special attention to yourself with all of the special rights you want, don’t you think?

JR, I notice the part I posted about BOTH candidates needing superdelegates to FOLLOW the rules and chose the nominee, has been ignored.

Neither can win without superdelegates. In Hillary’s case, that’s stealing. In obama’s case, it’s winning fair and square.

At least amongst the Hillary haters and the true believers.

I’m chuckling a little since I clearly touched a nerve with Cosmos. Logical and scientific types dont like to be called true believers.

I PROUDLY admit I was a true believer in the value to the region and state to keep the water in Cedar Bluff Reservoir. The Kansas Bass Association guys went on record with the media that the ONLY national bass tournament to come to Kansas was brought here largely because of me, and my “true believer” commitment.

I remain proud of that article.

And Kansas will have another chance to host that tournament in 2010. But they wont. NO other lake in Kansas “fishes as big” as Cedar Bluff for bass. That’s why Kansas has had to pass on hosting one ever since the tournaments were created.

And now that Hays and Russell drained the lake, Cedar Bluff wont fish that big in 2010, so Kansas, with it’s push for outdoor and out of state tourism dollars, will ONCE AGAIN, have to take a pass to host one of the five qualifying tournaments for the super bowl of bass fishing.

Kansas shot its self in the foot when governor “leadership” let John Bird and Joe Harkins pull the drain plug on Cedar Bluff so Hays could water their golf course with treated water, and Russell could suck up the rest of the Smoky to support it’s ethanol plant.

Sometimes, Cos, being a true believer isnt a bad thing.

That qualifying regional tournament ALSO brought ESPN out to broadcast from the lake as well as the outdoor print media. It was a good thing for Kansas, and especially for Trego, Ness, Gove and Rush Counties.

Too bad governor leadership is FOR outdoor tourism, except when she’s against it in favor of ethanol.

“Of course, kissing her ass would take all night.”

See there Clark? THAT is exactly the kind of sexist shit that drives Hillary supporters away from obama. You wouldnt have said that about a man. Just a woman.

But oh no, the obama camp is neeeeever sexist. According to them, that’s just fine. But Hillary stating the obvious about his race is a virtual klansman.

Double standard much?

That remark is no better than reg and tippy and others calling Hillary “her thighness”.

They wouldnt say that about a man. And you wouldnt have said that about a man’s ass.

Birds of a feather?

I’m not a Clinton true believer either.

Google “J R”+”Clinton”+”dynasty”

But at least she gives me something to believe IN. Not for.

And I like Clinton more and more. I like Obama less and less.

I’m in a mood to fight the right not work with them.

Watch “Recount” on HBO.

And I sure don’t want to bail on my friends to work with my enemies.

Always from the Obama supporters I get, well we don’t mean Hank and Nathan. We don’t mean “regular” in his many nics. We don’t mean working with outlander or GMC.

They never say just who it is they want me to give my chair to.

“Then, maybe then, Hillary will go away?”

Well the media certainly supports you in that and have all along. Both right and left.

Are you going to wish away McCain and the right wing chipper/shredder too?

Clark, obama does not have enough ELECTED delegates to win the nomination outright. He will NEED the superdelegates to “hand” him the nomination.

Hillary doesn not have enough ELECTED delegates to win the nomination outright. She will NEED the superdelegates to “hand” her the nomination.

So…WTF… when they “hand” the nomination to obama, that is fair and square, but if they “hand” the nomination to Clinton, that is STEALING?

Woof.

The RULES you are so fond of say NOTHING about who has the plurality of elected delegates being entitled to the nomination. NOTHING in the RULES obligates the superdelegates to vote for the person with teh most elected delegates.

THE RULES say that superdelegates may vote their consciences. So… WTF is is stealing if she wins, but honorable if he wins when the METHOD of counting votes is the same?

Jesus WEPT!

“Then, maybe then, Hillary will go away?”

Will Hillary destroy any chance for Obama to win in November just to satisfy her ego? Will she endeavor to take down Obama just so she can say “I told you so?”

Sounds like the Hillary supporters want that.

Damn, I would not be surprised to see a Hillary Clinton Swiftboat campaign against Obama in the general.

As usual, anything to satisfy the Clinton ego.

“You blamed kfg for her own comment that hit you.”

Huh?

The comment was clearly about Clinton’s ego – not about the size of her ass.

Anyone that knows me knows better than to say I make sexist comments.

Dumbass.

My friend kfg is offended by your comments WS.

But she is a woman. Her offense is her own fault?

Like I say, I would rather be pasting “Regular” or his many nics or Hank or GMC.

You make this too easy.

The most recent polls FAVOR that this race continue.

What are conventions for? What are super delegates for?

Obama is a book that we have only seen a few pages from. The cover is pretty. The back and the reviews too.

Well he made his race on a speech at a convention. Let’s let him AND Senator Clinton speak at THIS convention.

You know, there is a part of me, a tiny part of me, that wants to see Hillary try to win in November without the Obama supporters that she and her followers so diss so frequently.

Really.

We support a candidate and we are called everything short of mysogenic and homophobic because we don’t love Hillary.

To be honest, I am sick to death of people that have no intention of voting Democratic in November trying to tear me down because I support Barack Obama.

Enough is enough – if you are not going to vote with the Party in November, then your points (?) are academic.

They are meaningless in the context of the Democratic Party.

And the obama folks wonder how we can say he and his have run a VERY sexist campaign.

Just because you dont see it, doenst mean it didnt happen.

And it looks like about fifty percent of the party agree with me…

“We support a candidate and we are called everything short of mysogenic and homophobic because we don’t love Hillary.:

Uh, no, it isnt your support of obama that gets you called mysogenistic, it’s comments like the one you made HERE that get you called that.

And I would NEVER call you a homophobe. Not everyone who supports obama is a homophobe. But.. is he? I think the jury is still out on that in the gay community.

Nope. Supporting obama doesnt get ANY of those things. But your HIllaryHatred does.

And if Hillary gets the nomination, using the superdelegates as the RULES intended, you wont be voting with the party either.

But she’s not. She isnt going to be the nominee.

So?

“Enough is enough – if you are not going to vote with the Party in November, then your points (?) are academic.

They are meaningless in the context of the Democratic Party.”

And even MORE meaningless since she wont be the nominee. I think you are just stuck on your Hillary hate and it doesnt allow you to move past being against Hillary and on to being FOR obama.

Otherwise?

You’d be making arguments FOR obama instead of AGAINST Hillary.

Hillary has said, repeatedly, that she would support and campaign for the nominee, even if it is obama.

How is THAT trying to ensure that he loses in November?

And when she does campaign for him?

Who will you blame his loss on them?

Y’all obama supporters have lots to think about in terms of how you are going to soften the hearts YOU and YOURS have hardened. You have lots to think about how you’re going to reach out to Hillary supporters and bring them over.

It’s gonna require a lot of truth telling about the Hillary Hating you all have reveled in.

Are you up for it? Or do you just want to take the easy low road and write off half the party. Hillary supporters have no reason to come over to your side for your guy, unless you create some reasons for them to do so.

Are you up for it? I sense that you would really like to tell us to kiss your ample asses, er, egos.

So since obama virtually has the nomination wrapped up, can you post a link to his strategy to “unite” the party? Or, barring a link, can you suggest a strategy he might use to fulfill his promise of being a “uniter”?

I hope you can, because, ya know, we wouldnt want to think is WORD was WORTHLESS regarding the uniting of the party. If, as Chuck Todd said, this is now obama’s party, the “uniting” part is on him!

So let’s see this brave new party…

Clark, for crying out loud. Short of reading your mind, HOW TF could anyone get “ego” out of your comment?

I already said that you are not sexist and generally dont make such comments. I said it is the Hillary Hatred in you that made you say that, and it blinded you to how sexist it really was.

I already acknowledged that you are a GREAT supporter of equal justice for gays, and that I dont think you are the enemy.

But it doesnt change the fact of that comment.

Sorry if that offends you. Your comment offended me too.

Now, you can huff off the blog in righteous indignation, cancel our friendship, and do whatever.

But… wouldnt it just be easier to admit that comment was wrong and sexist?

Your choice. I’ll still think well of you, no matter how you huff and puff.

Your choice.

I will not regard you as a typical Obama supporter WS.

You don’t have yourself to thank for that.

You are a zealot. I think this blog is the poorer for your speaking here.

Clark, I cant read your mind. If what you WROTE, wasnt what you MEANT, then ok.

But dont be pissed at me because I commented on what you WROTE and not what you MEANT.

The only way to get that you meant ego was for you to say that AFTER I had commented.

Because what you wrote was ASS.

I have steadfastly supported gay right on this blog, despite the abuse I have taken for doing so. I have been passionate and direct in supporting the rights of all people, yet some would twist my words to serve their own purpose, despite knowing that is not my view of women.

I have steadfastly supported single parents and the working poor on this blog, despite the abuse I have taken for doing so. I have been passionate and direct in supporting the rights of all people, yet I am attacked with the worst sort of innuendo because I am quote “comfortable” end quote.

I have steadfastly supported liberal causes and the Democratic Party, despite the abuse I have taken for doing so.

After the unwarranted abuse I have taken tonight, and the deliberate distortion of my words, I am sick of defending those causes.

I have spoken no ill of you, Ryan Rimel, until you attacked me for supporting Obama with your self-righteous indignation. I even offered to have my son build a computer for you, when yours crashed.

Your gratitude is shown in your personal attacks on me.

I have taken more than my fair share of abuse here for support of folks like the two of you.

And then you dismiss me as being mysogenic and homophobic.

All because I support a candidate that neither of you like.

Well, so be it.

I guess I truly know who my friends are.

End of story.

Stop the pity party Clark. I already acknowledged all the things you said above. How many times do you want me to say it, because I think I’ve said it twice, that mysogenistic comments are not your style, and that I appreciate your support of equal justice for gays.

Please repost where I attacked you or disrespected you. Or your candidate.

You cant. Because I didnt. The REAL truth is, that if JR and I dont roll over and support obama, YOU dont want to be friends with us.

Like I said, your choice. I still consider you a friend. But friends can disagree, say the truths from their perspectives, and remain friends.

If they chose to do so.

Personally, I think you are frustrated tonight because we’ve asked some really hard questions and pointed out some flaws in your candidate.

If you wanna huff off and put words in my mouth and say I’m not a real friend to you… do it.

But dont blame it on me. It was your choice to dump a friend who doesnt agree with you.

“You seem to want it that way.”

Yes.

“It was your choice to dump a friend who doesnt agree with you.”

No, I dumped a “friend” that twisted my words, knowing that was not what I meant.

Oh, and if you want to see a couple of pals REALLY fight on the blog, just put up a thread on immigration. JR and I will square off with broken bottles in three… two… one….. HEH.

And we’re still friends, even though we couldnt be farther apart on the issue.

“You seem to want it that way.”

I have no desire to meet you, Rimel, but then you would probably hide in the shadows like you did when you had the opportunity to confront McCluer.

Unlike McCluer, I don’t walk with a cane and I bath daily and trim my beard weekly.

“Christ Clark, what part of “I cant read your mind” is so hard to understand?”

You made an assumption – knowing that it was unlike me.

As with any assumption – you made an “ASS” of “U” and “ME.”

But you never questioned your assumption and your “friend” Rimel jumped on the bandwagon.

Of course, he claims you as “his friend” as if you are his “friend” and the rest are excluded.

I guess he took you seriously about the marriage thing.

“The REAL truth is, that if JR and I dont roll over and support obama, YOU dont want to be friends with us.”

Bullshit. You are someone that I will always support and I would do anything for you – anything.

Rimel – not so much.

January 14, 2008

(snip)
The lone Democratic presidential candidate campaigning in the state drew an overflow crowd to the University of Michigan campus Monday.
Revving up supporters the day before Michigan voters go the polls, Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich told the 400 to 500 people who packed a campus auditorium that they could send a send a powerful message by giving him their votes
(snip)
The national Democratic Party has said it won’t seat Michigan delegates at its presidential nominating convention. And it discouraged candidates from participating in Tuesday’s primary. Only Kucinich and Hillary Clinton are on the ballot, and Clinton declined to campaign in the state.

http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/01/kucinich_the_lone_democrat_vis.html

Well WS?

Clearly you have been trusted with too much.

I doubt you will ever be well regarded here again. This was not my intention but your own doing.

I will talk to you back channel. Clearly, this is where you belong.

BlueJay posted June 1, 2008 at 1:23 am

“Obama supporters? You better get a rein on WS and cosmos. We Clinton supporters grudging and otherwise, we are grounded in reality. We know we cannot win without you.
…
WE don’t want President McCain. But if you tell us we have to sing the body Obama or else?

Our choice is or else.”
———–

BlueJay,

You seem to need a “reality” check.

I do not control the voters in Puerto Rico, Montana, or South Dakota.

I do not control the superdelegates who have not endorsed yet, or who may switch later.

And I very much doubt that their decisions will be influenced by what you, WS, or I post here.

cosmos_originally posted June 1, 2008 at 1:19 am

“And if Clinton is nominated, I will (unlike you and BlueJay) vote for her in Nov, just to add “1″ to her popular vote count.

Because the affidavit he signed just before the deadline was not notarized,

‘Kucinich Campaign Misses Michigan Deadline, Will Appear on Ballot’
by: Lynda Waddington
Oct 10, 2007 at 08:41 AM

About three months later,

‘Kucinich the lone Democrat visiting Michigan’
Posted by Chronicle News Service January 14, 2008 21:42PM
http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/01/kucinich_the_lone_democrat_vis.html
“”The lone Democratic presidential candidate campaigning in the state drew an overflow crowd to the University of Michigan campus Monday.
Revving up supporters the day before Michigan voters go the polls, Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich told the 400 to 500 people who packed a campus auditorium that they could send a send a powerful message by giving him their votes.

“This is an election no one should take for granted,” Kucinich told the crowd gathered at the Kraus Natural Science Building just off the U-M Diag.”

Kucinich got 3.65% of the votes.

“Blue Jay” –

You’ve never “buried” me. Because I refuse to play that game. I know you are manic for Hillary, but I don’t understand the constant vitriol toward us Obama supporters.

I think “ksfarmgrrl” has tunnel vision regarding Obama’s GLBT stands, but I understand her passion. Although we Democrats win or lose depending on how big a tent we can build on election day, there are still single-issues that sometimes get in the way of the greater good. I understand “mrcontroversy’s” concern about broadcast issues; it’s his bread and butter issue and it’s hard when your very livelihood is on the line to vote otherwise.

Unlike you, “BlueJay,” I have little appetite to repeats stuff I’ve written before in this forum.

But for six months I’ve been thrilled with this years Democratic presidential candidates. Edwards, Biden, Kucinich, (Gravel, not so much) and Clinton and Obama are all head-and-shoulders better presidential timber than any of the Republic Party candidates.

I’m pro-Obama, but I am not nor have I ever been anti ANY Democrat. (Gravel, not so much.)

I admire Senator Clinton’s will and spunk and fighting spirit. (Although I’m reminded of that scene when Mr Grant meets Mary Tyler Moore in that show’s pilot. I think more than a few people are like Lou Asner when he said, “You have spunk… I hate spunk!”

The late Shirley Chisholm said all her life she’d felt much more prejudice against her gender than her race. And this was the 1970s. “ksfarmgrrl” may have a point about the misogyny of voters. I dunno.

I think Senator Clinton has all the tools and skill-sets to be a giant in the United States Senate; the rightful heir to what Ted Kennedy has been, especially since his failed presidential run in 1980. I’ve always said that she’d likely be a great president, but not as great a presidential candidate.

Pasts sitting Senators (other than JFK) have a lot of political liabilities simply because the wheels of democracy grind slowly and compromises are part of the political process. This year, with Clinton, McCain, and Obama, we’re guaranteed a sitting Senator will be elected in November. So that issue is moot.

All campaigns agreed to the DNC’s primary campaign rules before it started. The Obama campaign, back when he was just one of the crowd of candidates and Hillary was the forgone shoe-in for the nomination, played the campaign by the rules and built a following in caucus states much like George Washington won the American Revolution. Call it political guerrilla warfare if you want, but the DNC’s rules were based on delegates, not the popular vote. Florida Democrats were forced into an early primary by a Republic Party majority in their state legislature. But Michigan Democrats clearly defied the DNC’s rules on their own. And Clinton’s choice to remain on the Michigan ballot even as all other candidates pulled out, was disconcerting to me.

It was eerily like George WMD Bush moving the goalposts in Iraq to try to wrench out some semblance of “victory” when we all know it’s been an abject failure.

For her to claim, halfway through the game, that the caucus states’ delegates were worth less than the delegates won in primaries was overly opportunistic at best, disingenuous at worst.

Almost as disingenuous as McCain’s flip-flops on the Religious Right, on torture, on supporting the troops with a new GI Bill…

I continue to think a general election campaign between two disingenuous candidates for President tips the balance toward the Republic Party candidate; the Republics, after all, are used to it.

A week or two ago, “BlueJay,” I asked if your anti-Obama passion was so rigid you’d prefer the next president were John McCain. You said you preferred not to answer that question; that it was “not the time.”

Well. It’s time.

I haven’t hammered you on the question, as you tend to do in this forum. I don’t think I’ve addressed “ksfarmgrrl” at all with the question. I certainly have not entered flame wars with fellow progressives and hope I’ve never gone down to the gutter with personal insults against anyone but the right-wingnuts in this forum.

Monkeyhawk,

Good points.

BlueJay,

I don’t know of anyone you’ve “buried”, but personal attacks from either “side”, be they Reps or be they Dems, have run off a few who don’t have the stomach for that type of thing. That isn’t burying, no matter who does it. It’s embarrassing for some of us, and it’s been done by both sides.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a passionate discussion or debate. It’s healthy. Once in a while, something can be learned from them. But attacks and threats don’t do anything to further anyone’s choices and opinions. They can, however, turn people off.

That goes for everyone on this blog, not just a few. Good grief! Even my kids don’t come close to sounding like some on this this blog do, and they’re masters at bickering and arguing and fighting, name-calling included. If the eds won’t say it, I will. Grow up. Please.

“Predestined” –

Thanks for the cyber-flowers.

I’m sorta posting now just to keep this thread alive amidst all the trackback spam. (Can’t the WE Blog editors get rid of that in some way?)

Anyway.

I continue to be astounded how the good is the enemy of the perfect for some political advocates. I cannot for the life of me figure out how a “President John McCain” might be perceived better for “ksfarmgrrl’s” personal issues. I cannot, for the life of me imagine how “BlueJay’s” situation would be better with a 3rd George WMD Bush term. I cannot for the life of me see what fuels these (albeit typical) Democratic Party intramural fights.

Because most progressives I know, regardless of their personal issues (i.e., Iraq, climate change, civil liberties, trade, jobs, a social safety net including health care…), won’t admit that another four years of a Republic Party presidency will improve their lot.

Monkeyhawk
Posted June 1, 2008 at 5:50 am | Permalink
“Regular” contributes –

“but, but…”

You misspelled “butt.”
———————-
Actually, no…

It’s a commonly used stutter phrase used in theater and in real life.

“Regular” plays the pedagogue with –

[But] is “…a commonly used stutter phrase used in theater and in real life.”

Oh!

Here and I thought you meant “butt.” As a self-description.

Looks to me that since I went to bed, you all have proven me correct. Most of the posts after I left were either in regard to other posters, or why mcsame would be a bad choice.

very little substance about why to vote for obama, other than:

He’s not Hillary and mcsame is a very bad man.

heheheheheheheh!

False choices. obama or disaster. Politics as usual. Hope and change indeed.

“ksfarmgrrl” –

I have neither the appetite nor the motivation to get into cyber pissing matches with other progressive voices on this forum. It made me ill a couple of years ago to think that four out of five of my fellow Kansans chose to vote their bigotry on the same-gender marriage amendment. And the only realistic prediction for November is Kansans will vote for the Republic Party’s presidential candidate.

Frankly, I guess I’d missed your earlier declaration that you would be voting for Cynthia McKinney. And it was probably presumptuous to think only in terms of the two major party candidates in the general election.

As a liberal in Kansas, I fully understand the concept of a protest vote and, as I said, I find no fault with your (more or less) one-issue approach to the major candidates. At the same time, I’ve not been overwhelmed at Senator Clinton’s strong advocacy of GLBT issues. (I think Hillary has spoken out in favor of that “civil unions” bulls#it.)Maybe it’s not as big a deal to me personally.

I’m voting to end 8 years of Bushism, to end the war in Iraq, to restore constitutional rights and government of, by, and for the people instead of corporations.

At this stage of the nomination process I do not believe “obama or disaster” is, in fact, a “false choice.” As I’ve said for months in this forum, should Senator Clinton get the nomination, I’ll still vote against “disaster,” which the Republic Party’s candidate embodies.

Do you really believe all your bluster and bullshit, J R?

Really.

Sigh……………………………………………..